FCS COACH'S POLL (WEEK 11, 2019)

[MUHAWKS]

FCS COACHES POLL

FCS Coaches PollSTATS FCS Top 25Simple Ratings System
Through Games NOV. 11, 2019

RANK

SCHOOL

RECORD

POINTS

PREVIOUS



RANK

SCHOOL

RECORD

POINTS

PREVIOUS



1
North Dakota State (26)
10-0
650
1


2
James Madison
9-1
624
2


3
Weber State
8-2
575
3


4
Montana
8-2
561
5


5
Northern Iowa
7-3
539
7


6
Sacramento State
7-3
508
8


7
Furman
7-3
467
10


8
Illinois State
7-3
450
12


9
South Dakota State
7-3
425
4


10
Montana State
7-3
366
14


11
Kennesaw State
8-2
365
11


12
Dartmouth
8-0
364
13


13
Central Arkansas
7-3
300
6


14
Florida A&M
8-1
285
16


15
Monmouth (N.J)
8-2
256
20


16
Villanova
7-3
246
19


17
Southeast Missouri State
7-3
244
18


18
Central Connecticut State
9-1
236
17


19
Princeton
7-1
203
9


20
Wofford
6-3
157
23


21
Towson
6-4
146
21


22
Austin Peay
7-3
139
24


23
Southeastern Louisiana
6-3
83
NR


24
Nicholls
6-4
53
NR


25
North Carolina A&T
6-3
40
15


Dropped out: North Dakota (22), New Hampshire (25)

Others receiving votes: North Dakota, 38; Southern Illinois, 27; San Diego, 19; New Hampshire, 18; The Citadel, 14; Sam Houston St., 11; Richmond, 10; South Carolina St., 8; Campbell, 6; Albany, 5; Eastern Washington, 4; Yale, 4; Robert Morris, 2; Tennessee Tech, 1; UT Martin, 1.

[taper]

Remember folks, this is the poll the selection committee is supposed to reference.

[Professor Chaos]

There is no way Furman deserves to be above Illinois St and SDSU.

I'm gonna throw up in my mouth a little saying this but UND being unranked is also a joke. They beat their consensus #10 Montana St and barely lost to their consensus #3 Weber St. SIU and SHSU being unranked are also pretty egregious oversights especially when considering they are rankings teams like Nicholls and NC A&T.

And then of course Kennesaw St is still ranked absurdly high at #11 and above Monmouth (who hopped over Nova, SEMO, and CCSU this week for some reason - do Coaches Poll voters watch games until a week later or something).

But Coaches Poll is gonna Coaches Poll.

[Daytripper]

SELA ten spots behind UCA, who they just annihilated.

[AppApp]

There is no way Furman deserves to be above Illinois St and SDSU.

I'm gonna throw up in my mouth a little saying this but UND being unranked is also a joke. They beat their consensus #10 Montana St and barely lost to their consensus #3 Weber St. SIU and SHSU being unranked are also pretty egregious oversights especially when considering they are rankings teams like Nicholls and NC A&T.

And then of course Kennesaw St is still ranked absurdly high at #11 and above Monmouth (who hopped over Nova, SEMO, and CCSU this week for some reason - do Coaches Poll voters watch games until a week later or something).

But Coaches Poll is gonna Coaches Poll.



Wrong, SDSU has done nothing to prove they should be ranked ahead of Furman, they have 7 wins, none of which are impressive

Sure they played NDSU close at home, but Furman also almost beat a very good Virginia Tech team on the road

[aceinthehole]

Never liked this poll, but come on this is total garbage.

KSU at #11 - ahead of Monmouth, Princeton, FAMU, and CCSU - really?

Monmouth jumps 5 spots for beating N. Alabama, but CCSU drops 1 place for beating Saint Francis?

[Bison56]

I don't get it, is this a joke?

[Professor Chaos]

Wrong, SDSU has done nothing to prove they should be ranked ahead of Furman, they have 7 wins, none of which are impressive

Sure they played NDSU close at home, but Furman also almost beat a very good Virginia Tech team on the road
SDSU's win over SIU is significantly better than any win Furman has. The argument could be made that YSU is also a better win than anything Furman has. The only reason Furman is in the top 10 is because of quality losses and SDSU has them beat there too.

[that guy]

glad to see EWU still getting votes, can't believe JSU didn't get any votes.

[ElCid]

There is no way Furman deserves to be above Illinois St and SDSU.

I'm gonna throw up in my mouth a little saying this but UND being unranked is also a joke. They beat their consensus #10 Montana St and barely lost to their consensus #3 Weber St. SIU and SHSU being unranked are also pretty egregious oversights especially when considering they are rankings teams like Nicholls and NC A&T.

And then of course Kennesaw St is still ranked absurdly high at #11 and above Monmouth (who hopped over Nova, SEMO, and CCSU this week for some reason - do Coaches Poll voters watch games until a week later or something).

But Coaches Poll is gonna Coaches Poll.

Yeah, I am not so sure SDSU has done anything either. Not saying they are not good. Just saying it belongs in the realm of speculation, and therefore is not that egregious. They have one ok to good win in SIU. That's it. Likewise for Ill ST except they also beat SIU and of course SDSU is a better win. ND, looking at their Ws should be almost as high as those three, so yeah, that they are MIA is pretty egregious. KSU is still living off of last year. Not sure when that will end.

I'm pretty sure NH will fall out of the playoff top 10 this week. But we will see.xrotatehx

[caribbeanhen]

Dartmouth would beat KennyDoll by 35 points

[AppApp]

SDSU's win over SIU is significantly better than any win Furman has. The argument could be made that YSU is also a better win than anything Furman has. The only reason Furman is in the top 10 is because of quality losses and SDSU has them beat there too.


If your case is that the (6-4) SIU home win is impressive enough to have SDSU clearly ahead of FU then you don't have much of a case to be currently blabbering about, just take the wait and see approach and see who handles business in the upcoming weekend where both teams have must win games to stay in the top 10 rankings

[Professor Chaos]

If your case is that the (6-4) SIU home win is impressive enough to have SDSU clearly ahead of FU then you don't have much of a case to be currently blabbering about, just take the wait and see approach and see who handles business in the upcoming weekend where both teams have must win games to stay in the top 10 rankings
FWIW Southern Illinois is rated higher than Furman by Massey.

I'm not saying they should be ranked higher than Furman but they are clearly better than any team Furman has beaten and I'd argue they're better than any team Furman can beat that's left on their schedule.

[AppApp]

FWIW Southern Illinois is rated higher than Furman by Massey.

I'm not saying they should be ranked higher than Furman but they are clearly better than any team Furman has beaten and I'd argue they're better than any team Furman can beat that's left on their schedule.



Wait and see approach for me, the way that SDSU offense is moving the ball I am not sure they have much chance vs. UNI, what is SDSU current QB situation as of now?

[kalm]

FWIW Southern Illinois is rated higher than Furman by Massey.

I'm not saying they should be ranked higher than Furman but they are clearly better than any team Furman has beaten and I'd argue they're better than any team Furman can beat that's left on their schedule.

Yep. They've lost to three playoff teams and an FBS and beat an FBS.

[AppApp]

Yep. They've lost to three playoff teams and an FBS and beat an FBS.


The Umass win more closely resembles a Divsion II win than an FBS win
https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/113/umass-minutemen

[Professor Chaos]

Wait and see approach for me, the way that SDSU offense is moving the ball I am not sure they have much chance vs. UNI, what is SDSU current QB situation as of now?
Not ideal, starting a backup true freshman. Their issues last Saturday were more related to turnovers though. 2 INTs and 2 lost fumbles (one on a questionable fake FG attempt) and then a missed FG late that put the game out of reach for them.

[youwouldno]

FWIW Southern Illinois is rated higher than Furman by Massey.

I'm not saying they should be ranked higher than Furman but they are clearly better than any team Furman has beaten and I'd argue they're better than any team Furman can beat that's left on their schedule.

Sagarin has @Wofford as being a tougher game than home vs. Southern Illinois. So the latter part of your statement is at least arguable.

[ElCid]

FWIW Southern Illinois is rated higher than Furman by Massey.

I'm not saying they should be ranked higher than Furman but they are clearly better than any team Furman has beaten and I'd argue they're better than any team Furman can beat that's left on their schedule.


Sagarin has @Wofford as being a tougher game than home vs. Southern Illinois. So the latter part of your statement is at least arguable.


I use both Massey and Sagarin. But only as data points. This entire Fall I get the horrible impression that people are taking them as gospel. They are only as good as their algorithm. Beside, we are only talking about tenths and hundredths of points in many cases. Yes when they are used, the rank means less than the actual rating #s. They are useful, but should be taken for what they are and not the end all be all.

[Daytripper]

I use both Massey and Sagarin. But only as data points. This entire Fall I get the horrible impression that people are taking them as gospel. They are only as good as their algorithm. Beside, we are only talking about tenths and hundredths of points in many cases. Yes when they are used, the rank means less than the actual rating #s. They are useful, but should be taken for what they are and not the end all be all.

I agree. Some see Massey and Sagarin as the Rosetta Stone of college football ranking. Sometimes we just need to trust our eyes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree. Some see Massey and Sagarin as the Rosetta Stone of college football ranking. Sometimes we just need to trust our eyes.

Oddly, this is exactly what I have said a couple times lately in emails concerning the AGS Poll.

[Professor Chaos]

I agree. Some see Massey and Sagarin as the Rosetta Stone of college football ranking. Sometimes we just need to trust our eyes.
I literally said I don't think SIU should be ranked in front of Furman just because Massey has them rated higher. My point was that's pretty strong evidence that SDSU's win over SIU is a heck of a lot better than any win Furman currently has.

Some see the names Massey or Sagarin and immediately dismiss the arguments those ratings systems are used in.

[Daytripper]

I literally said I don't think SIU should be ranked in front of Furman just because Massey has them rated higher. My point was that's pretty strong evidence that SDSU's win over SIU is a heck of a lot better than any win Furman currently has.

Some see the names Massey or Sagarin and immediately dismiss the arguments those ratings systems are used in.

I wasn't referring specifically to you Professor. I just see a lot of arguments regarding poll placement being justified by these algorithms.

[Professor Chaos]

I wasn't referring specifically to you Professor. I just see a lot of arguments regarding poll placement being justified by these algorithms.
Fair enough. They certainly can be taken overboard. I recall one AGS poll voter a few years back who would just submit a poll ballot that was Massey's top 25 and his justification was "the human brain can't process all the necessary data points to make accurate comparisons like computers do". He was summarily ran off I believe and, if he still votes, he never posts it anymore.

I've said this a bunch of times in various conversations on this board but I don't trust the eye test for teams I'm not watching every week. Even for teams that I do watch every week I don't really trust something I'm seeing with my eyes if it's contradicted by the numbers/stats. I've always said people see what they want to see but the numbers don't lie. Numbers can be skewed though too so there's no perfect approach.

[Daytripper]

Fair enough. They certainly can be taken overboard. I recall one AGS poll voter a few years back who would just submit a poll ballot that was Massey's top 25 and his justification was "the human brain can't process all the necessary data points to make accurate comparisons like computers do". He was summarily ran off I believe and, if he still votes, he never posts it anymore.

I've said this a bunch of times in various conversations on this board but I don't trust the eye test for teams I'm not watching every week. Even for teams that I do watch every week I don't really trust something I'm seeing with my eyes if it's contradicted by the numbers/stats. I've always said people see what they want to see but the numbers don't lie. Numbers can be skewed though too so there's no perfect approach.

Besides watching the games, I also consider looking at game stats, momentum, injuries, etc. as part of the "eye" test. I trust the eye test the least when considering my own conference. There is too much subjectivity there. I use Massey and/or Sagarin when I have a cluster of teams and can't seem to make a decision on placement. Like most say, it should have a place in the process, but not an overly important one, in my opinion.

[Katfan]

SDSU's win over SIU is significantly better than any win Furman has. The argument could be made that YSU is also a better win than anything Furman has. The only reason Furman is in the top 10 is because of quality losses and SDSU has them beat there too.
Their loss to Minnesota doesn’t look too bad either. They really could have won that game.

[ElCid]

Besides watching the games, I also consider looking at game stats, momentum, injuries, etc. as part of the "eye" test. I trust the eye test the least when considering my own conference. There is too much subjectivity there. I use Massey and/or Sagarin when I have a cluster of teams and can't seem to make a decision on placement. Like most say, it should have a place in the process, but not an overly important one, in my opinion.

Exactly. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular either, just a general sentiment in many threads I read. These rankings usually get trotted out when they favor someone's argument, but not when they don't. I always refer to them just to give me an objective benchmark to idiot check myself. It has changed my mind once or twice when I was out to lunch. But these ratings do not account for garbage time and other subjective inputs like you said. And the preseason bias seems to have too much influence in the season. They say it disappears, but it is a slow process. Kind of like some voters and certain teams hanging around a bit too long.xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fair enough. They certainly can be taken overboard. I recall one AGS poll voter a few years back who would just submit a poll ballot that was Massey's top 25 and his justification was "the human brain can't process all the necessary data points to make accurate comparisons like computers do". He was summarily ran off I believe and, if he still votes, he never posts it anymore.

I've said this a bunch of times in various conversations on this board but I don't trust the eye test for teams I'm not watching every week. Even for teams that I do watch every week I don't really trust something I'm seeing with my eyes if it's contradicted by the numbers/stats. I've always said people see what they want to see but the numbers don't lie. Numbers can be skewed though too so there's no perfect approach.

He doesn't vote anymore.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I wasn't referring specifically to you Professor. I just see a lot of arguments regarding poll placement being justified by these algorithms.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/55af50be4293de0d993fede32582cc94/tenor.gif?itemid=4786699
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj0zP3mo-PlAhVVHzQIHWSwB1wQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Fwho-me-chevychase-what-gif-4786699&psig=AOvVaw3_H7AttLGIDhyHOEzmWSqF&ust=1573600173974003)

p.s. but its the Massey Composite (42 polls) I usually rely on .. it's way more reliable (and objective) than most polls and 99% of football fans.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Besides watching the games, I also consider looking at game stats, momentum, injuries, etc. as part of the "eye" test. I trust the eye test the least when considering my own conference. There is too much subjectivity there. I use Massey and/or Sagarin when I have a cluster of teams and can't seem to make a decision on placement. Like most say, it should have a place in the process, but not an overly important one, in my opinion.

I generally agree with your approach, except I rarely watch games, other than my ISUr. I will watch a few partial games and look for highlights if someone is talking about a player. But admittedly, I let the computers do most of the initial crunching, then I drill down on game and team stats when I decide to take an interest. When I'm in a hurry or feeling lazy, I'll do a quick check on Massey. But when I have time and interest, I use the Massey Composite .. its up to 42 polls & systems. I'm pretty sure it is much more capable than 98% of the the posters on AGS and more objective than 100%.

I'm curious .. how many games do you watch each week on average for typical season ?

[Daytripper]

I generally agree with your approach, except I rarely watch games, other than my ISUr. I will watch a few partial games and look for highlights if someone is talking about a player. But admittedly, I let the computers do most of the initial crunching, then I drill down on game and team stats when I decide to take an interest. When I'm in a hurry or feeling lazy, I'll do a quick check on Massey. But when I have time and interest, I use the Massey Composite .. its up to 42 polls & systems. I'm pretty sure it is much more capable than 98% of the the posters on AGS and more objective than 100%.

I'm curious .. how many games do you watch each week on average for typical season ?

I will watch my own team, of course. I have ESPN+, so I will usually find a game or two at 11 or noon cst that interests me and bounce back and forth until my game. If my team is at 2 or 3 pm, I will watch a night game if there is a team that might be ranked or a recording of an earlier game. So, on average, may 4 per weekend. Of course, if it is a rainy weekend and there are really good games that happened on Saturday, I might get up Sunday morning and watch some recordings. It varies. I will say this: My wife loves her alma mater and Sam Houston, but hates my obsession with the FCS.

[caribbeanhen]

For me its about 90% watching games and parts of games

i look for talented players that can change a game

ESPN3 playback is my friend

Ill use fcs stats box scores and forward several games to scoring plays, I know this method has limitations
but its a scramble to try to see enough .... Also watch the end of close games, That’s when the stars shine

Last year I happened across Princeton and was surprisingly impressed
saw Dartmouth last year as well and Out of curiosity checked to see where they were on Massey. Wow so high I had no clue

You could see the toughness in the defense even though it was just Ivy League

[Derby City Duke]

SDSU's win over SIU is significantly better than any win Furman has. The argument could be made that YSU is also a better win than anything Furman has. The only reason Furman is in the top 10 is because of quality losses and SDSU has them beat there too.

I'm not sure it would be a great argument; YSU appears to be a smoldering tire fire that threatens to relight the Cuyahoga...

[Professor Chaos]

I'm not sure it would be a great argument; YSU appears to be a smoldering tire fire that threatens to relight the Cuyahoga...
True but are they any worse than Chattanooga (Furman's best win)? Debateable I'd say.

[youwouldno]

True but are they any worse than Chattanooga (Furman's best win)? Debateable I'd say.

Sagarin has YSU 2 points ahead of UTC; SDSU won by 10 and Furman by 15. Roughly comparable results.