General Defensive Question

[colgate13]

As some of you know, I'm now on the sidelines at the youth level and I was looking for some defensive information. I've got one kid who is a stud defensive end/linebacker type that I was playing with the idea of using a 10 man defense and letting him roam free. I believe this is what UNC did when they had Lawrence Taylor.

Does anyone remember this, or have any references to 10 man defenses? How did UNC do it for LT?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Isn't Andy Talley's (Villanova) 4-2-5 similar to that, with a "Rover" which lines up pretty much everywhere?

[andy7171]

As some of you know, I'm now on the sidelines at the youth level and I was looking for some defensive information. I've got one kid who is a stud defensive end/linebacker type that I was playing with the idea of using a 10 man defense and letting him roam free. I believe this is what UNC did when they had Lawrence Taylor.

Does anyone remember this, or have any references to 10 man defenses? How did UNC do it for LT?
How young are these kids?
It's my personal opinion that anything under High School Varisty should be about fundamentals and basics. Wins and losses are just a by product, especially the younger you get. And coddling individual players only causes problems down the road.
Hows LT Jr going to compete when he gets on the field with equal or greater athletes without the basics to rely on?

[colgate13]

High School varsity - not so 'youth' I guess.

Tell me more about Nova. Does this Rover have responsibilities every down? The way I've heard it told, UNC basically had 10 men covering the field and LT had no gap or pass responsibility. He lined up where he wanted to and sometimes rushed the QB, sometimes dropped into coverage or sometimes tried to stop the run.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of trying to get my best defensive player in on every play. I've thought about MLB in a 4-3 but if I could free him of those gap responsibilities he could have a field day. The kids got sound fundamentals and could play DE/DT/LB for me. He's fast enough at his level for LB but big enough for the line - and rushing the QB is his strongest point.

[andy7171]

Make him a wide 9 DE and stack the other side to prevent teams from just running away from him. If he can recognize a run play coming toward him all he has to do is crash down and contain. Anything other than a "run to" is using all his athletism following the ball.

[Cleets]

If you use a "Free Rover" you'll absolutley need 4 down linemen attacking the O-line every play...

4 - 2 (+1) - 4

with your guy as a free rover LB..?

(Check with the Montana State guys... they run a pretty cool Flex - D that might add some ideas to your mix...)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good old Wikipedia has a pretty good description of all sorts of formations here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_(American_football)).

As for you 13, it sounds like you want a base 3-4 where the 4th LB sometimes lines up as a down lineman (mostly as DE), because you want to get rid of the gap responsibilities.

[RichH2]

If he is that good, 3-4 best if u have at least one run stopper otherwise 4-3-4 or 4-2-4 would seem to be best with avg talent and size other than your stud. I've used both in jv and varsity D when i was assting in NJ. You can use your stud either as combo lb/lm or lb/db depending on his size and ability. I lean towrds the latter because it leaves him some space to make plays all over field

[89Hen]

BTW, welcome back 13. xeyebrowx xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

When I played high school ball we played with 5 downlinemen and two linebackers. We would often use a rover back as a blitzer, an extra linebacker, or in pass coverage. You will find that the weakspot of a 5-2 is between the tackle and tightend on the strong side.

Also worth noting is that I played in South Georgia. NOBODY ever passes the football. Straight run defense the entire way.

[ngineer]

As some of you know, I'm now on the sidelines at the youth level and I was looking for some defensive information. I've got one kid who is a stud defensive end/linebacker type that I was playing with the idea of using a 10 man defense and letting him roam free. I believe this is what UNC did when they had Lawrence Taylor.

Does anyone remember this, or have any references to 10 man defenses? How did UNC do it for LT?

Isn't that what we 'old timers' referred to as a 'monster'...wherein if you had a stud/linebacker type--good size and quickness, you let him roam/freelance looking for an overload, and picking up on tendencies?

[colgate13]

I will not be able to run a 3-4 this year because I don't think I have the linebackers for it. I've got 2 young but solid LBs who will be monsters in a year if not sooner. The third LB is up in the air - forget about a fourth. I've got 4 solid lineman (this kid included) with one useable backup. I've got 3 great cover guys but I'm looking for a FS.

I have some ideas of running a 4-3 and on some plays giving this kid license to tear it up - kind of like a blitz I guess. I just was wondering if anyone knew how UNC did it back in the day and if there was a way to make it like that on every down.

Are there any Montana State guys around? The 4-2-4 Flex sounds interesting.

[colgate13]

Isn't that what we 'old timers' referred to as a 'monster'...wherein if you had a stud/linebacker type--good size and quickness, you let him roam/freelance looking for an overload, and picking up on tendencies?

Bingo. That's what I'm looking for. A defense that sets this montser free from responsibility so he can freelance.

Got anything 'oldtimer'? xlolx

[ngineer]

As a follow up, however, if you run into a savy opponent who has a reliable QB that can read a defense and see the 'strength' and who can audible, then you may find your 'monster' out of position too often. At the youth level, though, I doubt you'd run into that problem.

[ngineer]

Bingo. That's what I'm looking for. A defense that sets this montser free from responsibility so he can freelance.

Got anything 'oldtimer'? xlolx

We ran a 5-3 Monster in high school. I was the safety. Everone has to know what everyone else is doing or you can leave yourself open for some big gainers. Good communication so if the Monster is going to swing to one side, the secondary and roll accordingly. Dependent,too on the type of offense you'll be facing. Sometimes we had to play it more 'straight' if the opposition had a number of weapons you couldn't key on.

[OL FU]

Have we started the discussion of tofu or eastern mysticismxconfusedx

13xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

When I played( dinosaurs still around) I started out as the Mike lb much like monster or rover we played 5-3-3 mike strong side but flips with playaction. Sounds like you have enuf lm to run him like LU did with gregorek formation really a 4-3 with one end blitzing or dropping into coverage

[PaladinFan]

If the kid is that much a freak, just bring him every play. Honestly, if you have a guy that can be a big time defensive playmaker, just flip flop him around and stunt the snot out of him.

"monster" isn't too antiquated a term. I played high school football not too terribly long ago and we referred to our roving safety as the monster.

[LBPop]

To add on to what some others have said, it sounds like the classic Monster defense is what you are looking for. Michigan used it for years and would recruit for the "Wolfman" position. The standard lineup would be a 5-2-3. The front seven play as they would in a standard odd 5-2 (the old Oklahoma defense). The three backs would play as they would in a three deep defense like a 5-3. Then the Monster could be used in a variety of ways: Wide side, strong side, or key on one player (that's my favorite). Often teams are built around one player on offense and if your stud can take him out of the game, they don't know what to do. This is more common in pre-high school, but often applies at the higher level. I used this one year and the other kid was screaming at his coaches on the sideline...he was frustrated as hell.

By the way, I used a killer goal line defense with my monster man and we must have gotten three turnovers with it. If you are interested, shoot a PM at me. How did your season go?

[Mountaineer#96]

*Line him up as a 9 tech. DE since you said rushing the passer is his strong point (this is what I played in high school, and I got a look from App I guess ;) )......... if he draws double teams put in a rover package, or walk up one of your LB's to the line of scrimmage in front of the end man on the line ( if they have a TE even better, b/c then that LB can take him if they pass) he will go free into the back field or a back has to come and "try" to block him. High school OL's usually have very simple blocking rules so this should be cake. If they start to figure out that your LB is simply a decoy and is reading the TE just work in some stunts. We called this 4-3 Base Tilt.......the tilt guy being your 9 tech DE on air outside with a LB walked up on his gap coverage. I picked up a unheard of 17 sacks my senior year as the "tilt" guy.*

[colgate13]

Have we started the discussion of tofu or eastern mysticismxconfusedx

13xthumbsupx

My goodness, it has been a while. You've passed me by in posts. Good to see your productivity hasn't slacked off! xlolx

[bobcatalum05]

If you really have a stud that has some speed consider using the Desert Swarm. Cal Poly runs the same defense and they have had great success with it.

Here is a video of Kyle Shotwell, last years Buck Buchanan award winner. He generally played deep enough that he was able to get in on every play. From this position he was able to blitz and still be a dominant run stopper.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4590212146155775644&q=kyle+shotwell&hl=en

The Cal Poly guys on here could probably help you out more, but check out the film, and you will see how it allows the stud to roam the field causing havoc.

[Go...gate]

Isn't that what we 'old timers' referred to as a 'monster'...wherein if you had a stud/linebacker type--good size and quickness, you let him roam/freelance looking for an overload, and picking up on tendencies?

Penn State still uses this, calls it a "Fritz" or "hero back". In my day, it was a Monster Back.