How is 5-3 Wofford ranked ahead of 5-3 SC State, when SCSU already defeated Wofford?

[R.A.]

xconfusedx

What type of weird science is happening here??

The top MEAC Teams appear stronger than the top SoCon teams.

Current SoCon #2 Wofford lost to Current MEAC #4 SC State.
Current SoCon #3 The Citadel, lost to CAA Elon, who current MEAC #2 NC A&T defeated.
Current SoCon #1 Furman, lost to SoCon#3 The Citadel. The Citadel lost to Elon, who NC A&T defeated.
---------------
How is it even possible to jump Wofford over SC State OR BETHUNE COOKMAN?

And neither SC State nor Bethune have received any votes to be in the Top 25!??

Ridiculous!!!

[gofurman]

Wofford was playing an experiment vs SC State .. look at their scores since then. They decided to,open the year w a passing experiment . Since they have gone back to,running old stuff They have run off 5 consecutive FCS wins

Woff is 5-2 discounting the loss to Clemson. SC State has played USF. SoCon teams you name like Citadel beat Georgia Tech. Furman led VTech (who is 6-3 in FBS) 14-3 at half and finally lost 24-17. SC State got HAMMERED by a horrible USF.

all that said I get your point and do agree some. The issue is long-term perception. I recall when an arguably weak Furman team made the playoffs (in 2013) got sent to SC State and still won on road. Maybe That shouldn’t be held against MEAC but it is.

It’s probably not fair but I think people want to,see the MEAC beat some teams in playoffs. I am really asking - what is MEAC record in playoffs? Anyone know?

[R.A.]

Wofford was playing an experiment vs SC State .. look at their scores since then. They decided to,open the year w a passing experiment . Since they have gone back to,running old stuff They have run off 5 consecutive FCS wins


Is that what we call losses now, experiments?


Woff is 5-2 discounting the loss to Clemson. SC State has played USF.
SC State is 4-2 discounting the loss to USF, and not counting the win over DII Lane... with two close loses to two top 20 conference foes #14 A&T and #16 FAMU.

Please note Furman's 2019 NAIA game against Point when looking at Furman's end of season record and before negatively judging a MEAC school for also scheduling a DII.


SoCon teams you name like Citadel beat Georgia Tech.
Furman led VTech (who is 6-3 in FBS) 14-3 at half and finally lost 24-17. SC State got HAMMERED by a horrible USF.
South Florida is 4-4, two wins from bowl eligibility. Georgia Tech's 2-6 and out of bowl contention.


all that said I get your point and do agree some. The issue is long-term perception. I recall when an arguably weak Furman team made the playoffs (in 2013) got sent to SC State and still won on road. Maybe That shouldn’t be held against MEAC but it is.

Then the following year, SC State defeated Furman in the regular season.



It’s probably not fair but I think people want to,see the MEAC beat some teams in playoffs. I am really asking - what is MEAC record in playoffs? Anyone know?

Furman's 1-1 versus SC State in the playoffs.
And all that talk about what's right in the past don't mean jack, we're talking about right now.
And right now, the SoCon's Number 2 Wofford is ranked ahead of the MEAC's Number 4, even though the two have an equal record and SC State already defeated Wofford.

That's BS.
-----------------------
If Wofford finished with an equal record as SC State, and Wofford gets an At-Large Bid, but SC State doesn't, the MEAC should contest the committee's ruling.

ALSO, if Bethune Cookman beats Delaware State this Saturday, there's no way 7-2 all FCS victories Bethune - Cookman shouldn't be ranked in the Top 25.

By the end of November 9th, 3 MEAC Schools should be in the top 25, A&T, FAMU, and Bethune Cookman.

[GoBlueHens83]

I agree with your points about SC State, they should be getting a lot more votes than they are currently.

But Bethune hasn't beat a single team with a winning record this season.

[ElCid]

Is that what we call losses now, experiments?



South Florida is 4-4, two wins from bowl eligibility. Georgia Tech's 2-6 and out of bowl contention.


You can simply ignore that Wofford was trying something fairly alien to them if you want. Others aren't.

Oh and you should look a little deeper when you compare South Florida and Ga Tech, or maybe you did and simply want to spin it, GA TECH BEAT SOUTH FLORIDA the week prior to losing to my Bulldogs. We can "transitive" all day if you want, but that fact will sink you deep considering they beat SC St silly 55-16. Ga Tech may not be going to a bowl, but considering its SOS is a bit tougher than SF, not surprising. I am not making out our win was some cosmic event, but we did win in the end. We caught them in a perfect storm, when they were sticking their toe into a new scheme.....hmm....sound familiar?

[Professor Chaos]

If Wofford finished with an equal record as SC State, and Wofford gets an At-Large Bid, but SC State doesn't, the MEAC should contest the committee's ruling.

The MEAC took their ball and went home about 5 years ago. I have no problem giving a team from a conference invested in the playoffs the edge for an at-large bid over a team from a conference with no skin in the game anymore.

That said I don't think either team deserves a playoff bid right now. If Wofford runs the table to get to 8-3 and gets the SOCON auto then I think SCSU has a strong case. If Wofford drops 1 of their last 3 to finish 7-4 I think they're very iffy and probably out unless the bubble implodes which means so is SCSU.

[CHIP72]

The MEAC took their ball and went home about 5 years ago. I have no problem giving a team from a conference invested in the playoffs the edge for an at-large bid over a team from a conference with no skin in the game anymore.

Contrary to what some people from tumbleweed country think, that’s not how polls work, at least in the polls that are widely recognized and most closely followed by most college sports fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smilo]

I voted for SC State in my ballot (#23), but when comparing three loss teams, head to head is a small factor. You have to consider who those other losses are. Fortunately for SC State, these are close losses to teams ranked even higher so I am in agreement.

Wofford also lost to Samford which I have ranked significantly lower (experimental loss) and has yet to make up for it with a meaningful win against a team better than Samford. Sorry, a one point home OT win over Chatty, which is hardly better than Samford, definitely doesn't count.

[Professor Chaos]

Contrary to what some people from tumbleweed country think, that’s not how polls work, at least in the polls that are widely recognized and most closely followed by most college sports fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wasn't talking about polls. Polls voted on outside of the selection committee boardroom have little to no impact on at-large playoff selections. Even in tumbleweed country we know that.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Agree SC State deserves some love. But answer is simply ... because thev've each played 8 games, not just that one game. Wofford is 5-3, SC State is 4-3 removing their D-II win over 3-6 Lane. SoCon is viewed as tougher conference than MEAC .. for example, Wofford's SOS is ranked 56th by Massey, SC State's SOS is ranked 87th SOS. Plus Wofford's avg margin in FCS is 15 points per game (incl the losses) and SC states is just 8 points. So Wofford has better record, with better margins, against what apppears to be tougher SOS.

Your win over Wofford was week 2, they've won 5 straight since then by comfortable margins. Also note, Wofford lost the 4-5 Samford in week 1, but no one thinks Samford deserves to be ranked ahead of Wofford.

Weighing in your favor is your win over Wofford, and close losses to top 25 teams NC A&T and FL A&M. On the other hand, your 14 point wins over bad teams aren't impressive ... I know, because we have a couple in that range. But IMO it makes sense that Wofford is ahead of you based on all 8 games played.

[ElCid]

Agree SC State deserves some love. But answer is simply ... because thev've each played 8 games, not just that one game. Wofford is 5-3, SC State is 4-3 removing their D-II win over 3-6 Lane. SoCon is viewed as tougher conference than MEAC .. for example, Wofford's SOS is ranked 56th by Massey, SC State's SOS is ranked 87th SOS. Plus Wofford's avg margin in FCS is 15 points per game (incl the losses) and SC states is just 8 points. So Wofford has better record, with better margins, against what apppears to be tougher SOS.

Your win over Wofford was week 2, they've won 5 straight since then by comfortable margins. Also note, Wofford lost the 4-5 Samford in week 1, but no one thinks Samford deserves to be ranked ahead of Wofford.

Weighing in your favor is your win over Wofford, and close losses to top 25 teams NC A&T and FL A&M. On the other hand, your 14 point wins over bad teams aren't impressive ... I know, because we have a couple in that range. But IMO it makes sense that Wofford is ahead of you based on all 8 games played.


Well thought out reasoning.... its body of work. Like why Montana is ahead of Sac St in most polls right now. And just a note on Samford for people who think they are bad. They are not bad. They are just horribly inconsistent and have a problem finishing games. And conference games are an entirely different animal than OOC. Teams know each other, well, and some teams just have your number sometimes from familiarity. I always look closely at historical results when it comes to conf games. Just another data point.

[FU_Paladin08]

xconfusedx

What type of weird science is happening here??

The top MEAC Teams appear stronger than the top SoCon teams.

Current SoCon #2 Wofford lost to Current MEAC #4 SC State.
Current SoCon #3 The Citadel, lost to CAA Elon, who current MEAC #2 NC A&T defeated.
Current SoCon #1 Furman, lost to SoCon#3 The Citadel. The Citadel lost to Elon, who NC A&T defeated.
---------------
How is it even possible to jump Wofford over SC State OR BETHUNE COOKMAN?

And neither SC State nor Bethune have received any votes to be in the Top 25!??

Ridiculous!!!

Attack Wofford head2head games all you want, but leave Furman and The Citadel out of your transitive madness.

[Anthony215]

As previously stated conference reputation plays a lot into rankings. The MEAC is generally viewed on par with the NEC/SWAC/Pioneer leagues as the weaker leagues in FCS play. As opposed to SoCon viewed in higher regards so when their teams are equal in records the league history comes into play. Unfortunately NC A&T won't be able to play in the FCS playoffs with them being the MEAC representative in the Celebration Bowl since FAMU is ineligible for post season play so the MEAC won't be able to get an at large team into the playoffs to gain some respect/acknowledgement as they haven't won a fcs playoff game since 1999.

[caribbeanhen]

the real question is why would either team be ranked..

[Redbird 4th & short]

I wil say this much, MEAC top 3 looks solid this year. IMO, it is the best top 3 than they've had in a while .. but also can't yet ignore that MEAC is 0-6 in playoffs the last 10 years. You'll probably get a bid this year, it would help yoru cause if you (i.e. MEAC 2nd place team) played a truly competitive game against a truly decent playoff team.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Contrary to what some people from tumbleweed country think.

East coast elitist much?
I would rather live in tumbleweed country than that ****hole you call home.

[Reign of Terrier]

I have watched every Wofford offensive snap of the year except for the Clemson game (because it's meaningless), so let me explain what happened against SC State. No excuses, just an explanation. You can read into the assessment that "Wofford is bad" or "SC State is good" it doesn't matter to me. I'm just going to recap the sequence of the game so people understand.

But before I get to that , let me say some good things about SC State:
Their coach, Buddy Pough, just became the school's all-time win leader. While at SC State, he's led some good defenses and good teams that were competitive with App State in the late 2000s. Pough's defenses have always been legit and have competed with Socon teams of great caliber. For the last 5 years or so, the offense has been bad. They fixed this by bringing in a new offensive coordinator (Swygert, a former QB at South Carolina); they're in their second year running that system and that's paid off. What's more, SC State has limited exposure OOC to FCS teams that aren't HBCUs or Socon teams (or SC Big South teams), and over his tenure he's shown he can beat them.

So SC State has an improved offense and always has a solid defense. They also should win the rest of their games to finish 8-3. They'll be less than 10 points away from going undefeated in the FCS. Even if the MEAC is traditionally hot garbage, that's nothing to sneeze at. I personally think, for some reason, the Celebration bowl is upping the MEAC's game a little bit. You can't really challenge the run A&T is on over the last few years and FAMU looks good, as does SC State.

So, regardless of what you think about the MEAC in absolute terms, it's pretty obvious that the top has improved:

North Carolina A&T improved
Consistency among the top 4 teams
South Carolina State beat Wofford
FAMU may go undefeated in conference play, which is impressive given the above bullet points.

Does that necessarily translate to the MEAC being on par with, say, the Socon and the Southland and the OVC? Maybe not, but it's at least something to think about.

Now, what happened with that Wofford game?

Wofford underestimated SC State, especially on defense, thought we would get an easy win.
In the actual game, we threw and called way too many pass plays in the first half. In the second half we threw four interceptions on seven easy passes


Wofford called more pass plays in the first half than run plays (21 to 18), which is dumb because it was way too many passes for any team that isn't an air raid offense. So the coaching/play-calling put us behind in the first half. But player execution (making dumb decisions) put us behind in the second half. Every game has its own ebbs and flows. There are no redos. When you're trying to make changes like Wofford is, there's going to be growing pains. We'd probably make some mistakes against a bad team like Gardner Webb and rally and survive, but you can't do that against a team that's at least above average like SC State. Especially when they run the ball and play good defense and your core competency is running the ball and passing it got you down.

What does this mean for SC State and playoffs?
I think SC State has been hosed. Do I think they play a schedule on par with the MVFC or some Big Sky teams? No. But the teams they play demonstrate a bit more consistency than teams in the Socon, CAA, Southland, OVC, and Big South. I understand the argument in the abstract that their schedule is weak because I know how MEAC teams traditionally do OOC and in the playoffs. But I like to run the counterfactual: How perfect does a team have to be to get playoff consideration? What are some counterfactual scenarios?

SC State beating a 7-4 Wofford team isn't seen as a quality enough to make the playoffs (given the rest of the resume), but if the opposite happened and Wofford won the game, an 8-3 Wofford team would be seen as a good loss. It's asymmetrical. The difference between Wofford being seen as a quality win or not is the loss to SC State, which is what we're trying to evaluate in the first place.

Meanwhile, something like less than 50 FCS team will finish the year with 7 D1 wins every year. SC State played likely 4 of them and went 2-2 and had a couple other bounces happened their way, they'd be 4-0. If they're in a stronger conference they're in, with no questions asked. Not to mention, they'd be ranked. But now? Because of everyone's meh perception of the MEAC they have no more opportunity to climb the rankings because the rest of their opponents are garbage. Like, *NOW* we see that NC A&T and FAMU are good and losing to them by less than a touchdown isn't a bad thing. But that does SC State no good right now.

I stick up for SC State, not just because they beat my team, but I think the burden of perfection is a little too high for them this year. We can't expect every team to play an equally tough schedule every year. At some point you have to give some credit.

Does that mean Wofford/SC State will make it far in the playoffs if they make it? I'm not sure. I don't think you need to have an opinion on that to see that we're kind of demanding perfection out of SC State when less consistent teams like Towson and Stony Brook and UC Davis are seemingly spoon-fed rankings.


I also want them to make the playoffs so we can get a rematch.

[WileECoyote06]

I have watched every Wofford offensive snap of the year except for the Clemson game (because it's meaningless), so let me explain what happened against SC State. No excuses, just an explanation. You can read into the assessment that "Wofford is bad" or "SC State is good" it doesn't matter to me. I'm just going to recap the sequence of the game so people understand.

But before I get to that , let me say some good things about SC State:
Their coach, Buddy Pough, just became the school's all-time win leader. While at SC State, he's led some good defenses and good teams that were competitive with App State in the late 2000s. Pough's defenses have always been legit and have competed with Socon teams of great caliber. For the last 5 years or so, the offense has been bad. They fixed this by bringing in a new offensive coordinator (Swygert, a former QB at South Carolina); they're in their second year running that system and that's paid off. What's more, SC State has limited exposure OOC to FCS teams that aren't HBCUs or Socon teams (or SC Big South teams), and over his tenure he's shown he can beat them.

So SC State has an improved offense and always has a solid defense. They also should win the rest of their games to finish 8-3. They'll be less than 10 points away from going undefeated in the FCS. Even if the MEAC is traditionally hot garbage, that's nothing to sneeze at. I personally think, for some reason, the Celebration bowl is upping the MEAC's game a little bit. You can't really challenge the run A&T is on over the last few years and FAMU looks good, as does SC State.

So, regardless of what you think about the MEAC in absolute terms, it's pretty obvious that the top has improved:

North Carolina A&T improved
Consistency among the top 4 teams
South Carolina State beat Wofford
FAMU may go undefeated in conference play, which is impressive given the above bullet points.

Does that necessarily translate to the MEAC being on par with, say, the Socon and the Southland and the OVC? Maybe not, but it's at least something to think about.

Now, what happened with that Wofford game?

Wofford underestimated SC State, especially on defense, thought we would get an easy win.
In the actual game, we threw and called way too many pass plays in the first half. In the second half we threw four interceptions on seven easy passes


Wofford called more pass plays in the first half than run plays (21 to 18), which is dumb because it was way too many passes for any team that isn't an air raid offense. So the coaching/play-calling put us behind in the first half. But player execution (making dumb decisions) put us behind in the second half. Every game has its own ebbs and flows. There are no redos. When you're trying to make changes like Wofford is, there's going to be growing pains. We'd probably make some mistakes against a bad team like Gardner Webb and rally and survive, but you can't do that against a team that's at least above average like SC State. Especially when they run the ball and play good defense and your core competency is running the ball and passing it got you down.

What does this mean for SC State and playoffs?
I think SC State has been hosed. Do I think they play a schedule on par with the MVFC or some Big Sky teams? No. But the teams they play demonstrate a bit more consistency than teams in the Socon, CAA, Southland, OVC, and Big South. I understand the argument in the abstract that their schedule is weak because I know how MEAC teams traditionally do OOC and in the playoffs. But I like to run the counterfactual: How perfect does a team have to be to get playoff consideration? What are some counterfactual scenarios?

SC State beating a 7-4 Wofford team isn't seen as a quality enough to make the playoffs (given the rest of the resume), but if the opposite happened and Wofford won the game, an 8-3 Wofford team would be seen as a good loss. It's asymmetrical. The difference between Wofford being seen as a quality win or not is the loss to SC State, which is what we're trying to evaluate in the first place.

Meanwhile, something like less than 50 FCS team will finish the year with 7 D1 wins every year. SC State played likely 4 of them and went 2-2 and had a couple other bounces happened their way, they'd be 4-0. If they're in a stronger conference they're in, with no questions asked. Not to mention, they'd be ranked. But now? Because of everyone's meh perception of the MEAC they have no more opportunity to climb the rankings because the rest of their opponents are garbage. Like, *NOW* we see that NC A&T and FAMU are good and losing to them by less than a touchdown isn't a bad thing. But that does SC State no good right now.

I stick up for SC State, not just because they beat my team, but I think the burden of perfection is a little too high for them this year. We can't expect every team to play an equally tough schedule every year. At some point you have to give some credit.

Does that mean Wofford/SC State will make it far in the playoffs if they make it? I'm not sure. I don't think you need to have an opinion on that to see that we're kind of demanding perfection out of SC State when less consistent teams like Towson and Stony Brook and UC Davis are seemingly spoon-fed rankings.


I also want them to make the playoffs so we can get a rematch.

You make some great points.

Also, I brought this up last week; hoping that people may consider their own biases. Either rank both teams or don't rank either is a logical and fair solution. Finally, why is FAMU ranked under Wofford?

I read arguments about the MEAC's past playoff futility, but it's week 10 and we should be ranking teams based on this year's performance thus far.

[R.A.]

I agree with your points about SC State, they should be getting a lot more votes than they are currently.

But Bethune hasn't beat a single team with a winning record this season.

Fair enough.

[R.A.]

You can simply ignore that Wofford was trying something fairly alien to them if you want. Others aren't.

Because excuses don't matter... results do. SC STATE BEAT WOFFORD ON PAPER.


Oh and you should look a little deeper when you compare South Florida and Ga Tech, or maybe you did and simply want to spin it, GA TECH BEAT SOUTH FLORIDA

You mean the same way SC STATE BEAT WOFFORD??

[R.A.]

I voted for SC State in my ballot (#23), but when comparing three loss teams, head to head is a small factor. You have to consider who those other losses are. Fortunately for SC State, these are close losses to teams ranked even higher so I am in agreement.

Wofford also lost to Samford which I have ranked significantly lower (experimental loss) and has yet to make up for it with a meaningful win against a team better than Samford. Sorry, a one point home OT win over Chatty, which is hardly better than Samford, definitely doesn't count.

Smart poster right here.xbowx

[Sir William]

RA, you’ve raised a very legit question. I would agree with you that SC State deserves much more than they’ve gotten in the polls. Saw part of their game against NC A&T, and they looked strong. At the same time, this is definitely a different Wofford team than the one they played the first couple weeks of season. That takes nothing away from a deserving SC State team, but no need to dump on the Terriers - they’re good.

I also saw that Wofford was ranked 19th on latest AGS poll, and SC State wasn’t even in top 40. Again, SC State not getting their props IMO. However, being that this has understandably rattled you, you need to realize that your issue is not with Wofford but with all the voting posters on AGS. Just saying.

[R.A.]

Agree SC State deserves some love. But answer is simply ... because thev've each played 8 games, not just that one game. Wofford is 5-3, SC State is 4-3 removing their D-II win over 3-6 Lane. SoCon is viewed as tougher conference than MEAC .. for example, Wofford's SOS is ranked 56th by Massey, SC State's SOS is ranked 87th SOS. Plus Wofford's avg margin in FCS is 15 points per game (incl the losses) and SC states is just 8 points. So Wofford has better record, with better margins, against what apppears to be tougher SOS.

And there's the issue, perception.

It's perception vs. reality.

The reality is that there are 4 strong teams in the MEAC; FAMU, NC A&T, Bethune, and SC State VS. 3 strong teams in the SoCon; Furman, Wofford, and The Citadel... and one of the MEAC's strong teams has a victory over one of the SoCon's Strong teams with SC State over Wofford.

Wofford doesn't even have a signature win yet, but they have their signature loss, SC State.



Your win over Wofford was week 2, they've won 5 straight since then by comfortable margins.
Wofford beat 4-5 Chattanooga by a comfortable margin??? I believe that game went into overtime and Wofford won 35-34


Also note, Wofford lost to 4-5 Samford in week 1, but no one thinks Samford deserves to be ranked ahead of Wofford.

Weighing in SC State's favor is their win over Wofford, and close losses to top 25 teams NC A&T and FL A&M. On the other hand, your 14 point wins over bad teams aren't impressive ... I know, because we have a couple in that range. But IMO it makes sense that Wofford is ahead of you based on all 8 games played.

It's false that it makes sense that Wofford is ahead of SC State in the rankings. If you want to point out SC State's unimpressive win over Morgan State, that's fine. But it still stands as a 14 point WIN. Also, please show me Wofford's signature victory?

[R.A.]

RA, you’ve raised a very legit question. I would agree with you that SC State deserves much more than they’ve gotten in the polls. Saw part of their game against NC A&T, and they looked strong. At the same time, this is definitely a different Wofford team than the one they played the first couple weeks of season. That takes nothing away from a deserving SC State team, but no need to dump on the Terriers - they’re good.

I also saw that Wofford was ranked 19th on latest AGS poll, and SC State wasn’t even in top 40. Again, SC State not getting their props IMO. However, being that this has understandably rattled you, you need to realize that your issue is not with Wofford but with all the voting posters on AGS. Just saying.

That's fine. My targets are The Pollsters who are ranking Wofford ahead of SC State. I'm just using Wofford and your SoCon to point to evidence that the MEAC's top teams are just as strong, if not stronger that the SoCon's top teams. And I'm also suggesting that the MEAC may have more top teams than SOME other FCS Conferences that are perceived to be better than us, for example the SoCon.

[R.A.]

Attack Wofford head2head games all you want, but leave Furman and The Citadel out of your transitive madness.

Why?

When's The Citadel going to schedule SC State or NC A&T?

At least Furman schedules SC State every now and then, but The Citadel? What's with you all??

[Sir William]

That's fine. My targets are The Pollsters who are ranking Wofford ahead of SC State. I'm just using Wofford and your SoCon to point to evidence that the MEAC's top teams are just as strong, if not stronger that the SoCon's top teams. And I'm also suggesting that the MEAC may have more top teams than SOME other FCS Conferences that are perceived to be better than us, for example the SoCon.

Funny, it looks like your targets are Wofford and the SoCon. You are entitled to your perception as to the strength of the current top 3 MEAC teams versus the current top 3 SoCon teams as they stand at this very moment at 4 pm on Nov 5. However, I won't get dragged into a pi**ing match with you on this; after all, it would all be based on differing perceptions. Suffice it to say that SC State is a good football team.

Let's talk about Howard football.

[ElCid]

You mean the same way SC STATE BEAT WOFFORD??

More spin. Don't bring up or hint that South Florida is somehow so much greater than Ga Tech like you did, when Ga Tech actually beat them. It just looked silly. SF may be better and headed to a bowl, and I think that disproves your point about Wofford and SC St. And it has been made a bunch, but at this point in the season, it is body of work as well and not ONLY H2H. Your entire premise is that H2H is all that matters. If that were the case then there is bunch wrong in ALL the polls.

And you are right excuses don't matter but perspective does when it comes to looking at a team's quality. There is nothing wrong with SC St, they are good, but they are not world beaters just because they scored an upset early on in the season. If they would have beat A&M or A&T then they would be in the high teens right now. And as has been said, they have not exactly been lighting it up in the Ws either.

[R.A.]

Well said Reign of Terrier.

[WileECoyote06]

Funny, it looks like your targets are Wofford and the SoCon. You are entitled to your perception as to the strength of the current top 3 MEAC teams versus the current top 3 SoCon teams as they stand at this very moment at 4 pm on Nov 5. However, I won't get dragged into a pi**ing match with you on this; after all, it would all be based on differing perceptions. Suffice it to say that SC State is a good football team.

Let's talk about Howard football.

Pollsters, AGS in particular aren't being consistent; as was highlighted early in this thread. SCSU didn't even crack Top-40. Now after SCSU loses to my Eagles next Saturday they can be completely out of the top 40. xlolx But they should get to enjoy a week or two in the spotlight.

[R.A.]

Funny, it looks like your targets are Wofford and the SoCon. You are entitled to your perception as to the strength of the current top 3 MEAC teams versus the current top 3 SoCon teams as they stand at this very moment at 4 pm on Nov 5. However, I won't get dragged into a pi**ing match with you on this; after all, it would all be based on differing perceptions. Suffice it to say that SC State is a good football team.

Let's talk about Howard football.

Okay.

Our former Head Coach Mike London who is a native Virginian, took the opportunity to become Head Coach of William & Mary, a Virginia School.
His Offensive Coordinator Brennan Marion was the gentleman that I believe we attempted to make our Head Coach after Coach London. We were not able to secure Coach Marion and he left with Coach London.

Our Athletic Director hired Ron Prince as Coach. I knew nothing about Coach Prince before his hire, but I did read in the paper some unflattering comments he made about Howard during his introductory Press Conference as our New Coach; I did not think it was wise to bring up the past. He did. So it made me think perhaps he wasn't wise as a coach.

Since then, he's only added to my perception of him to say the least. His offense is SUPER bland. He was handed the keys to a HIGHLY FUNCTIONING offense, and has crashed the car numerous times.

It was a GREAT MOVE by Caylin Newton to leave our program. Caylin has proven his ability, and may be able to secure a starting Quarterback position on an FBS team.

Caylin Newton's backups, were OUTSTANDING Quarterbacks in High School... so our offense shouldn't have missed a beat. Obviously we've stopped beating.

NOT TO MENTION, our Special Teams ARE A WRECK!!! We kick the ball like Pee- Wee Football players; whether it's punting, kickoff, field goals, elementary school kickball, etc...

And some of the coaching decisions, I don't know what Prince is thinking some of the time... Coach London made some bad choices on 3rd and 4th downs... Coach Prince is WORSE!
----------------------
I sincerely hope our Athletic Director makes the right choice and lets Coach Prince go at the end of the season.

We have some former coaches hovering around our program who I like.
---------------------
But yeah, that's Howard Football right now. A ton of Talent, being wasted.

[Sir William]

I feel ya. Hopefully better days on the horizon. There's no reason for y'all not to be competitive.

[R.A.]

Pollsters, AGS in particular aren't being consistent; as was highlighted early in this thread. SCSU didn't even crack Top-40. Now after SCSU loses to my Eagles next Saturday they can be completely out of the top 40. xlolx But they should get to enjoy a week or two in the spotlight.

I think the Bulldogs will win two of their next three. IMO, they'll either lose to Central or Norfolk State... BUT if SC State finishes the season 8-3 and wins their last 3; they will have deserved a playoff bid IMO.

I feel the same way about Bethune- Cookman. Bethune plays Delaware State, #14 NC A&T, and #16 Florida A&M, to finish the season. If Bethune can win 2 of their next 3 and finish 8-3, I also feel they will have earned a playoff bid also. they will have earned a signature win over a Top 25 team.

MEAC #1 FAMU is ineligible for the Post- Season even though they'll probably end up MEAC Champs.
MEAC #2 NC A&T will probably gain another berth into the Celebration Bowl.
MEAC #3 Bethune may finish 8-3 (with 8 FCS Victories) and may have a signature win over a ranked team. Bethune has defeated FAMU in the Florida Classic eight straight seasons...
MEAC #4 SCSU may finish 8-3 (with 7 FCS Victories) and has already secured a signature win over Wofford.

The MEAC can realistically have TWO At- Large Bids, not just one.

[Derby City Duke]

The MEAC can realistically have TWO At- Large Bids, not just one.

So the MEAC can run their to 0 - 21 in the playoffs this century. Awesome!

[Redbird 4th & short]

I think the Bulldogs will win two of their next three. IMO, they'll either lose to Central or Norfolk State... BUT if SC State finishes the season 8-3 and wins their last 3; they will have deserved a playoff bid IMO.

I feel the same way about Bethune- Cookman. Bethune plays Delaware State, #14 NC A&T, and #16 Florida A&M, to finish the season. If Bethune can win 2 of their next 3 and finish 8-3, I also feel they will have earned a playoff bid also. they will have earned a signature win over a Top 25 team.

MEAC #1 FAMU is ineligible for the Post- Season even though they'll probably end up MEAC Champs.
MEAC #2 NC A&T will probably gain another berth into the Celebration Bowl.
MEAC #3 Bethune may finish 8-3 (with 8 FCS Victories) and may have a signature win over a ranked team. Bethune has defeated FAMU in the Florida Classic eight straight seasons...
MEAC #4 SCSU may finish 8-3 (with 7 FCS Victories) and has already secured a signature win over Wofford.

The MEAC can realistically have TWO At- Large Bids, not just one.

So you've had 6 bids in 10 years, with your 2nd place team going thsoe 6 games .. and MEAC 0-6, getting beat decisively most of those games. And now you think you will get bids for your 3rd and 4th place teams ?

So if not for the Celebration Bowl and FAMU being ineligble, you think MEAC could realistically get 4 bids this year ??

While I agree the top of 3 or 4 of MEAC is having a better year, I'm think NC A&T and FAMU are close to top 25, and that would be it as of right now. SC State is just 4-3 in D-I games and Massey Composite #51 this week. Beth Cook is #58 and still has their 2 toughest games left against NC AT and FAMU, both of whom beat SC State. Not sure how you figure SC State and Beth Cook are getting bids this year.

[Derby City Duke]

So you've had 6 bids in 10 years, with your 2nd place team going thsoe 6 games .. and MEAC 0-6, getting beat decisively most of those games. And now you think you will get bids for your 3rd and 4th place teams ?

So if not for the Celebration Bowl and FAMU being ineligble, you think MEAC could realistically get 4 bids this year ??

While I agree the top of 3 or 4 of MEAC is having a better year, I'm think NC A&T and FAMU are close to top 25, and that would be it as of right now. SC State is just 4-3 in D-I games and Massey Composite #51 this week. Beth Cook is #58 and still has their 2 toughest games left against NC AT and FAMU, both of whom beat SC State. Not sure how you figure SC State and Beth Cook are getting bids this year.

38-17 has been the average score of the 19 playoff games the MEAC has played in and lost since 2000. The non-MEAC team has been held under 30 twice in that span.

[R.A.]

So you've had 6 bids in 10 years, with your 2nd place team going thsoe 6 games .. and MEAC 0-6, getting beat decisively most of those games. And now you think you will get bids for your 3rd and 4th place teams ?

So if not for the Celebration Bowl and FAMU being ineligble, you think MEAC could realistically get 4 bids this year ??

While I agree the top of 3 or 4 of MEAC is having a better year, I'm think NC A&T and FAMU are close to top 25, and that would be it as of right now. SC State is just 4-3 in D-I games and Massey Composite #51 this week. Beth Cook is #58 and still has their 2 toughest games left against NC AT and FAMU, both of whom beat SC State. Not sure how you figure SC State and Beth Cook are getting bids this year.

Well...
1.) SC State beat Bethune- Cookman and #23 Wofford. Bethune-Cookman will probably join the Top 25 after this weekend with a 7-2 record, which would meanSC State faced four Top 25 opponents on their schedule, and split those games 2-2, which decent and speaks to their schedule being competitive.
2.) IF if Bethune wins two out of their last three games, they will have knocked off a ranked opponent whether it's #14 A&T(unlikely) or #16 FAMU(Far more likely).

I contend that B-CU and SC State will have stronger signature wins than many other competing for playoffs spots.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think the Bulldogs will win two of their next three. IMO, they'll either lose to Central or Norfolk State... BUT if SC State finishes the season 8-3 and wins their last 3; they will have deserved a playoff bid IMO.

I feel the same way about Bethune- Cookman. Bethune plays Delaware State, #14 NC A&T, and #16 Florida A&M, to finish the season. If Bethune can win 2 of their next 3 and finish 8-3, I also feel they will have earned a playoff bid also. they will have earned a signature win over a Top 25 team.

MEAC #1 FAMU is ineligible for the Post- Season even though they'll probably end up MEAC Champs.
MEAC #2 NC A&T will probably gain another berth into the Celebration Bowl.
MEAC #3 Bethune may finish 8-3 (with 8 FCS Victories) and may have a signature win over a ranked team. Bethune has defeated FAMU in the Florida Classic eight straight seasons...
MEAC #4 SCSU may finish 8-3 (with 7 FCS Victories) and has already secured a signature win over Wofford.

The MEAC can realistically have TWO At- Large Bids, not just one.


No way the MEAC is getting 2 playoff bids.....xlolx

[Humble Steward]

I think the Bulldogs will win two of their next three. IMO, they'll either lose to Central or Norfolk State... BUT if SC State finishes the season 8-3 and wins their last 3; they will have deserved a playoff bid IMO.

I feel the same way about Bethune- Cookman. Bethune plays Delaware State, #14 NC A&T, and #16 Florida A&M, to finish the season. If Bethune can win 2 of their next 3 and finish 8-3, I also feel they will have earned a playoff bid also. they will have earned a signature win over a Top 25 team.

MEAC #1 FAMU is ineligible for the Post- Season even though they'll probably end up MEAC Champs.
MEAC #2 NC A&T will probably gain another berth into the Celebration Bowl.
MEAC #3 Bethune may finish 8-3 (with 8 FCS Victories) and may have a signature win over a ranked team. Bethune has defeated FAMU in the Florida Classic eight straight seasons...
MEAC #4 SCSU may finish 8-3 (with 7 FCS Victories) and has already secured a signature win over Wofford.

The MEAC can realistically have TWO At- Large Bids, not just one.

Awesome assessment of the caliber of teams in the MEAC. I agree with you bringing up this legitimate conversation. I still believe that my Wildcats need to finish strong, but will likely not get any consideration based on the MEAC’s past performance in the playoffs. Honestly, for our program, I hope we win out and go to the Celebration Bowl. However, I definitely agree that NC A&T, FAMU, SC State, and B-CU are playing solid football that should not be dismissed or overlooked. It amazes me, that when a conference has teams that are currently performing well and scheduling well (OOC games), that they are still criticized for past results. The only way to get beyond your past, is to put yourself in position to have an opportunity to compete. Really proud of the MEAC and RA for bringing this to the forefront.

[gofurman]

Is that what we call losses now, experiments?


SC State is 4-2 discounting the loss to USF, and not counting the win over DII Lane... with two close loses to two top 20 conference foes #14 A&T and #16 FAMU.

Please note Furman's 2019 NAIA game against Point when looking at Furman's end of season record and before negatively judging a MEAC school for also scheduling a DII.


South Florida is 4-4, two wins from bowl eligibility. Georgia Tech's 2-6 and out of bowl contention.



Then the following year, SC State defeated Furman in the regular season.



Furman's 1-1 versus SC State in the playoffs.
And all that talk about what's right in the past don't mean jack, we're talking about right now.
And right now, the SoCon's Number 2 Wofford is ranked ahead of the MEAC's Number 4, even though the two have an equal record and SC State already defeated Wofford.

That's BS.
-----------------------
If Wofford finished with an equal record as SC State, and Wofford gets an At-Large Bid, but SC State doesn't, the MEAC should contest the committee's ruling.

ALSO, if Bethune Cookman beats Delaware State this Saturday, there's no way 7-2 all FCS victories Bethune - Cookman shouldn't be ranked in the Top 25.

By the end of November 9th, 3 MEAC Schools should be in the top 25, A&T, FAMU, and Bethune Cookman.

chill. If SC state wins out I hope they get in playoffs.

the MEAC has unfortunately been KILLED in playoffs. Like you said you beat Furman (horrible FU team but SC State won far and square) in REGULAR SEASON. But just one year prior in playoffs Furamn went into Orangeburg in PLAYOFFS and won. It’s just a bad perception of MEAC playoffs. They are 0-6 in last ten and pretty bad before that.

that said it should be about THIS YEAR ONLY so I hope SC State or someone from MEAC makes playoffs. I agree you should be ranked higher. The disparity in Woff and SC State is unjustifiable as you say

[R.A.]

Bethune and SC State deserve more attention and possible rankings.

Also, even if the MEAC only gets One at-large bid into the FCS playoffs, I'm pointing out that the conference hasn't shied away from out of conference competition, and could potentially have several teams that are qualified for the post-season.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Bethune and SC State deserve more attention and possible rankings.

Also, even if the MEAC only gets One at-large bid into the FCS playoffs, I'm pointing out that the conference hasn't shied away from out of conference competition, and could potentially have several teams that are qualified for the post-season.



NC A&T is coming to Fargo next year. Let's see how they stack up.

[Reign of Terrier]

Hey guys, I'm a big fan of using past data (MEAC has lost a lot of playoff games, some very badly) to forecast the future (MEAC will continue to lose playoff games poorly).

But you have to understand, football is an ever evolving game and this common wisdom way of thinking is vulnerable to not seeing up and coming programs.

For instance, conventional wisdom would not have predicted Jacksonville State to make the championship game in 2015. The OVC had only, like, 3 playoff wins against fully-scholarshipped, non-OVC opponents in the 20 years prior (all in 2013). This thinking also wouldn't have predicted San Diego beating Northern Arizona or Cal Poly. It wouldn't have predicted the CAA losing to the NEC and OVC in the playoffs either. And it certainly wouldn't have predicted SC State beating Wofford.

That's not to say that the MEAC, SC State, etc are world-beaters all of a sudden, but the game is played on the field. Though conventional wisdom is probably solid at this level, we can't let it deny teams the opportunity for teams to prove it wrong. So far this season, the MEAC at the top has done all it can to prove it wrong.

[Humble Steward]

Hey guys, I'm a big fan of using past data (MEAC has lost a lot of playoff games, some very badly) to forecast the future (MEAC will continue to lose playoff games poorly).

But you have to understand, football is an ever evolving game and this common wisdom way of thinking is vulnerable to not seeing up and coming programs.

For instance, conventional wisdom would not have predicted Jacksonville State to make the championship game in 2015. The OVC had only, like, 3 playoff wins against fully-scholarshipped, non-OVC opponents in the 20 years prior (all in 2013). This thinking also wouldn't have predicted San Diego beating Northern Arizona or Cal Poly. It wouldn't have predicted the CAA losing to the NEC and OVC in the playoffs either. And it certainly wouldn't have predicted SC State beating Wofford.

That's not to say that the MEAC, SC State, etc are world-beaters all of a sudden, but the game is played on the field. Though conventional wisdom is probably solid at this level, we can't let it deny teams the opportunity for teams to prove it wrong. So far this season, the MEAC at the top has done all it can to prove it wrong.

That's a fair assessment. The MEAC still needs to prove it on the field. I wish B-CU would have played SE Louisiana this year and we would probably have a better feel for our team. I was impressed when we scheduled them to a home and home series and would love us to reschedule this game at some point. The Wildcats beat SE Louisiana 28 -23 on the road in 2017 and we still need to continue to schedule good OOC games to put ourselves in the place for consideration to compete. I really believe that the top MEAC teams are doing these things, but are overlooked because of their past performance in the playoffs. However, the polls are based on the current year's performance and currently we have two teams ranked in the Top 20 (NC A&T, FAMU) and two teams (SCSU, B-CU) that should be receiving votes based on their performance. Honestly, I just want to win out and finish the season at 9-2. If that happens, we go to the Celebration Bowl, but if we lose a game and finish 8-3, that means we would have a win against a Top 20 team and really no bad losses. Just my two cents.

[Reign of Terrier]

Just think: If BC plays and beats Southland the MEAC probably has 4 teams in the top 25 and SC State is a consensus "win out and you're in" playoff team.

[R.A.]

NC A&T is coming to Fargo next year. Let's see how they stack up.

It'll be fun to watch.

[R.A.]

Just think: If BC plays and beats Southland the MEAC probably has 4 teams in the top 25 and SC State is a consensus "win out and you're in" playoff team.

Exactly... It's not Bethune's fault that a hurricane cancelled that contest versus Southeastern Louisiana. But the point is still acknowledged that the MEAC isn't shying away from competition. This game should have been rescheduled somehow.

[caribbeanhen]

NC A&T is coming to Fargo next year. Let's see how they stack up.

nice to see this game scheduled but let's not pretend it will be a game

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

nice to see this game scheduled but let's not pretend it will be a game


Anything can happen.

NDSU has a ton of players coming back next year, they are really a young team this year. Only 14 seniors.

14 seniors
19 juniors
26 Sophs
57 RFR and FR

83 players are Sophs or FR/RFR


NC A&T has been the cream of the crop in the MEAC for a few years now. It will be interesting to see how the best MEAC team matches up with the Bison.

[Derby City Duke]

Anything can happen.

NDSU has a ton of players coming back next year, they are really a young team this year. Only 14 seniors.

14 seniors
19 juniors
26 Sophs
57 RFR and FR

83 players are Sophs or FR/RFR


NC A&T has been the cream of the crop in the MEAC for a few years now. It will be interesting to see how the best MEAC team matches up with the Bison.

I think they'll match up fine with NDSU -- until the opening kickoff.

[R.A.]

nice to see this game scheduled but let's not pretend it will be a game


Delaware regularly plays the worst MEAC Football Program, and are even too chickenish to travel on the road to play them.

You all lack honor.

[GoBlueHens83]

Delaware regularly plays the worst MEAC Football Program, and are even too chickenish to travel on the road to play them.

You all lack honor.

Wrong.

https://delawarestatenews.net/sport/hens-to-visit-hornets-twice-as-route-one-rivalry-is-extended-six-more-meetings-slated-from-2024-30/

[R.A.]

Wrong.

https://delawarestatenews.net/sport/hens-to-visit-hornets-twice-as-route-one-rivalry-is-extended-six-more-meetings-slated-from-2024-30/

After only nine games at home, Delaware finally decides to have two away games at Delaware State FOUR YEARS FROM NOW...
...what a joke.

[GoBlueHens83]

After only nine games at home, Delaware finally decides to have two away games at Delaware State FOUR YEARS FROM NOW...
...what a joke.

Why should Delaware give up a home game to Delaware State or any other team when it doesn't benefit them?

Playing a road game at a 7k seat stadium isn't doing UD any favors. I didn't care for them to play the road game at Lafayette a few years ago.

[Panther88]

After only nine games at home, Delaware finally decides to have two away games at Delaware State FOUR YEARS FROM NOW...
...what a joke.

Pimping is easy when you have the right slut w/ the right mindset to pimp.

[R.A.]

Why should Delaware give up a home game to Delaware State or any other team when it doesn't benefit them?

Playing a road game at a 7k seat stadium isn't doing UD any favors. I didn't care for them to play the road game at Lafayette a few years ago.

What goes around, comes around. Many rivalries have a way of evening out.

[kdinva]

Playing a road game at a 7k seat stadium isn't doing UD any favors.

Kinda similar to The Citadel not having any games scheduled at Chuck South's 4200 seat venue.....

[Reign of Terrier]

Kinda similar to The Citadel not having any games scheduled at Chuck South's 4200 seat venue.....

There's no way CSU's "venue" seats 4200. My middle school had more seats.

[Professor]

Why?

When's The Citadel going to schedule SC State or NC A&T?

At least Furman schedules SC State every now and then, but The Citadel? What's with you all??

The Citadel is scared. A&T just scheduled a home and home with Furman so maybe The Citadel will get on board

[Professor]

NC A&T is coming to Fargo next year. Let's see how they stack up.

And if we win , people here will come up with some silly excuse to try and discredit it. Remember we beat Jax St and it was oh they are overrated anyway. Their offense turned the ball over more than usual. It was the 1st game. blah blah blah.

We get it. The FCS folks don't respect HBCU teams

[KSUFAN]

The Citadel is scared. A&T just scheduled a home and home with Furman so maybe The Citadel will get on board
Hopefully you got Furman to come to your place first! They've been known to backout of home and home agreements!

[Professor]

This topic is AWESOME.

And yes SCSU is getting shammed because they are a member of the MEAC

FCS doesn't respect HBCU football. And what's funny is the conversation was well, your teams don't win head to head against FCS teams. Now the MEAC is winning head to head match-ups , and it's even more excuses. I wish people would just be honest and say what they feel.

1. That HBCU teams are inferior to other FCS teams

2. Since the MEAC / SWAC doesn't send it's champion to the playoffs they shouldn't be included

3. The MEAC history of playoff losses should always be factored in when discussing MEAC schools being ranked

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This topic is AWESOME.

And yes SCSU is getting shammed because they are a member of the MEAC

FCS doesn't respect HBCU football. And what's funny is the conversation was well, your teams don't win head to head against FCS teams. Now the MEAC is winning head to head match-ups , and it's even more excuses. I wish people would just be honest and say what they feel.

1. That HBCU teams are inferior to other FCS teams

2. Since the MEAC / SWAC doesn't send it's champion to the playoffs they shouldn't be included

3. The MEAC history of playoff losses should always be factored in when discussing MEAC schools being ranked


In my teams case, we'll see how NC A&T stacks up next year playing the Bison.

NDSU will be better next year....xeekx

[Professor Chaos]

And if we win , people here will come up with some silly excuse to try and discredit it. Remember we beat Jax St and it was oh they are overrated anyway. Their offense turned the ball over more than usual. It was the 1st game. blah blah blah.

We get it. The FCS folks don't respect HBCU teams
NC A&T was ranked #6 in the AGS Poll in week 2 and week 3 last year. They don't get there without scheduling and beating JSU. If A&T knocks off NDSU next year there's a good chance they get #1 votes.

You take too much personally, there's always going to be critics who are unfair but the consensus has shown that there's a lot of respect in the AGS community for NC A&T.

[Professor]

NC A&T was ranked #6 in the AGS Poll in week 2 and week 3 last year. They don't get there without scheduling and beating JSU. If A&T knocks off NDSU next year there's a good chance they get #1 votes.

You take too much personally, there's always going to be critics who are unfair but the consensus has shown that there's a lot of respect in the AGS community for NC A&T.


Lol not taking it personally. It's actually sad and funny to me. How do you beat a team on the field , and yet you still want to continue the thought that you're better than them.

And this isn't just about A&T. SCSU beat Wofford. IDC what offense they ran. They deserve their due. The same doubts and naysayers we had are what they are receiving. A&T has beaten enough FCS and FBS teams to get the respect. All i'm saying is SCSU should be getting some as well

[ejjones]

Agree SC State deserves some love. But answer is simply ... because thev've each played 8 games, not just that one game. Wofford is 5-3, SC State is 4-3 removing their D-II win over 3-6 Lane. SoCon is viewed as tougher conference than MEAC .. for example, Wofford's SOS is ranked 56th by Massey, SC State's SOS is ranked 87th SOS. Plus Wofford's avg margin in FCS is 15 points per game (incl the losses) and SC states is just 8 points. So Wofford has better record, with better margins, against what apppears to be tougher SOS.

Your win over Wofford was week 2, they've won 5 straight since then by comfortable margins. Also note, Wofford lost the 4-5 Samford in week 1, but no one thinks Samford deserves to be ranked ahead of Wofford.

Weighing in your favor is your win over Wofford, and close losses to top 25 teams NC A&T and FL A&M. On the other hand, your 14 point wins over bad teams aren't impressive ... I know, because we have a couple in that range. But IMO it makes sense that Wofford is ahead of you based on all 8 games played.
Do you realize Wofford has wins over ZERO teams with a winning record?

[ejjones]

I wil say this much, MEAC top 3 looks solid this year. IMO, it is the best top 3 than they've had in a while .. but also can't yet ignore that MEAC is 0-6 in playoffs the last 10 years. You'll probably get a bid this year, it would help yoru cause if you (i.e. MEAC 2nd place team) played a truly competitive game against a truly decent playoff team. One if the main reasons our playoff record is so bad that even when we had really good teams and the playoff field was only 16 teams we got sent to the #1 team EVERY year. We went to App State 2 years in a row when they had A. Edwards running the show & we had them on the ropes both years. If not for FG special teams mishap we win the second year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Do you realize Wofford has wins over ZERO teams with a winning record?

This is a dumb argument everyone uses around this time of year for teams in the middle 30. The schedule is incomplete and every team will have their opportunity

The only teams that have multiple wins over teams with winning records:

Play in Big Conferences, where they have the opportunity to play against lots of decent teams
Play in conferences with good OOC records
Play in competitive conferences, which may or may not be good.
A combination of all 3


I mean, right now Central Arkansas has played 7 teams with winning records, winning 5 of them, which is more than any team including NDSU, but I don't think anyone is ready to crown them a top 4 team yet

The Socon had a bad OOC outting this year, going 7-11 OOC this year. Right now, we have 9 teams, which is smaller than the Big Sky (13 teams), CAA (12 ), Southland (11) MVFC (10 ). The bigger your conference is, and the more decent you are relative to the rest of the FCS, the more likely you are to have teams with winning records to play. To be frank, the middle ~4 Socon teams are inconsistent to the point of being mediocre. Wofford has beaten them, sometimes handily. Wofford's going to play 2 teams with winning records to end the season. If we win those, there's no disputing our quality, especially if UTC finishes the season at 7-5 or 6-6.

I mean, another way to say all this is that the MEAC wouldn't have 4 really good teams record-wise if they didn't have 3 absolutely piss-poor teams at the bottom, 2 mediocre teams and some decent SWAC wins outside of Wofford.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Wofford is not good. Sorry bro.

[Professor]

This is a dumb argument everyone uses around this time of year for teams in the middle 30. The schedule is incomplete and every team will have their opportunity

The only teams that have multiple wins over teams with winning records:

Play in Big Conferences, where they have the opportunity to play against lots of decent teams
Play in conferences with good OOC records
Play in competitive conferences, which may or may not be good.
A combination of all 3


I mean, right now Central Arkansas has played 7 teams with winning records, winning 5 of them, which is more than any team including NDSU, but I don't think anyone is ready to crown them a top 4 team yet

The Socon had a bad OOC outting this year, going 7-11 OOC this year. Right now, we have 9 teams, which is smaller than the Big Sky (13 teams), CAA (12 ), Southland (11) MVFC (10 ). The bigger your conference is, and the more decent you are relative to the rest of the FCS, the more likely you are to have teams with winning records to play. To be frank, the middle ~4 Socon teams are inconsistent to the point of being mediocre. Wofford has beaten them, sometimes handily. Wofford's going to play 2 teams with winning records to end the season. If we win those, there's no disputing our quality, especially if UTC finishes the season at 7-5 or 6-6.

I mean, another way to say all this is that the MEAC wouldn't have 4 really good teams record-wise if they didn't have 3 absolutely piss-poor teams at the bottom, 2 mediocre teams and some decent SWAC wins outside of Wofford.

So if Wofford proves their a quality team., doesn't SCSU as well because they beat Wofford?

[Reign of Terrier]

So if Wofford proves their a quality team., doesn't SCSU as well because they beat Wofford?

Yes, and I've written like 1000 words on the issue in this very threadxlolx

the very fact that some posters feel the need to over-complicate this by bringing in their religious texts (the computer rankings) when the blunt fact that SC State beat Wofford kind of tells you how some of these people think. If SC State goes 8-3 and doesn't make the playoffs, but Wofford does, it's a travesty.

[R.A.]

This topic is AWESOME.

Thanks. I'm getting the feeling that the non-acknowledgement is intentional. Equal records, one beats the other in head to head, and yet is STILL ranked lower than the team they beat... that doesn't pass the smell test.


And yes SCSU is getting shammed because they are a member of the MEAC

FCS doesn't respect HBCU football. And what's funny is the conversation was well, your teams don't win head to head against FCS teams. Now the MEAC is winning head to head match-ups , and it's even more excuses. I wish people would just be honest and say what they feel.

1. That HBCU teams are inferior to other FCS teams

2. Since the MEAC / SWAC doesn't send it's champion to the playoffs they shouldn't be included

3. The MEAC history of playoff losses should always be factored in when discussing MEAC schools being ranked

And that bring us to Bethune- Cookman. These next three weeks will be huge for The Wildcats as they are a 6-2 team with final games versus Delaware State, #14 NC A&T, and #16 Florida A&M.

If the Wildcats can win two of those three games, they will be an 8-3 team, who finally secured a signature win over a potential Top 20 ranked squad... that would also make them a FCS At-Large Playoff Candidate.

[WestCoastAggie]

This thread is interesting to say the least.

[PaladinFan]

I had not realized how many occ games the MEAC plays against quality FCS teams. I think because the conference is geographically large, I lose track of what the teams on the edges are doing.

[Humble Steward]

I agree with your points about SC State, they should be getting a lot more votes than they are currently.

But Bethune hasn't beat a single team with a winning record this season.

I agree. The toughest part of our schedule is in the last part of the season. We will see what this team is really about in the next few weeks. However, I give credit to Bethune for winning their games (5 straight at one point) and not playing down to the competition. Your point is sort of valid, but even if we would have beat teams that currently have a winning record in the conference, I still don’t think we would be receiving votes because of the MEAC perception. As I said before, I just want us to win out and finish the season 9-2. If we do that, we are headed to the Celebration Bowl. If we lose one game to either NC A&T or FAMU, we would finish the season at 8-3 with no bad losses and a win over a Top 15 or 20 team. Hard to discredit a team with 8 D1 wins. Don’t punish us for winning the games we are supposed to win.

[WestCoastAggie]

I had not realized how many occ games the MEAC plays against quality FCS teams. I think because the conference is geographically large, I lose track of what the teams on the edges are doing.

Internally, we split it north and south with the NC/VA State line as the dividing point. Most of the conference's success is coming from the south while the north is lagging woefully behind in football.

[WestCoastAggie]

If FAMU was eligible, we could be potentially see at least 2 teams playing at least 1 post-season game with at least one possible.

[major095]

NC A&T is coming to Fargo next year. Let's see how they stack up.
should have played in montgomery in the kick-off classic

[POD Knows]

should have played in montgomery in the kick-off classicYea, um, no, that would be 5 games in Fargo for 2020, there would be rioting in the streets.

[R.A.]

Wonder what the MEAC folks will say this week about their at-large qualifications...

*I am saying that #14 North Carolina A&T should drop 7 to 10 spots in the FCS rankings to #24... which still makes A&T a Top 25 team. A&T lost to Morgan State last year also yet the Aggies still finished 10-2, so I believe Morgan State has NC A&T's number... 9-3 is still a possibility for the Aggies if they can get back to and win the Celebration Bowl.

*I am also saying that South Carolina State (who beat #23 Wofford), beat the mess out of my poor Howard Bison 62-21, and that the SC State Bulldogs deserve to be ranked in the Top 25 in Monday November 11th polls.

*I am saying that Bethune-Cookman, blew their chance at being ranked and devastated their chance at an At-Large bid by losing to Delaware State. The Wildcats have to beat NC A&T and FAMU in order to gain respectability.

-Currently NC A&T and SC State look like the MEAC's best chances at an At-Large Bid, and assuming one of those schools are going to the Celebration Bowl, the other will probably earn an At- Large Bid into the FCS playoffs.

We are a one bid FCS Playoff Conference at this point.

[Humble Steward]

I’m actually so pissed that, I can’t even watch anymore football today. How in the world do we have two weeks to prepare for DSU and you show up unprepared to play. It’s mind boggling. I’m really at a lost for words. This was a shame for our program. Heads should roll. This was absolutely coaching. No excuses, from me guys. This one hurts.

[Redbird 4th & short]

*I am saying that #14 North Carolina A&T should drop 7 to 10 spots in the FCS rankings to #24... which still makes A&T a Top 25 team. A&T lost to Morgan State last year also yet the Aggies still finished 10-2, so I believe Morgan State has NC A&T's number... 9-3 is still a possibility for the Aggies if they can get back to and win the Celebration Bowl.

*I am also saying that South Carolina State (who beat #23 Wofford), beat the mess out of my poor Howard Bison 62-21, and that the SC State Bulldogs deserve to be ranked in the Top 25 in Monday November 11th polls.

*I am saying that Bethune-Cookman, blew their chance at being ranked and devastated their chance at an At-Large bid by losing to Delaware State. The Wildcats have to beat NC A&T and FAMU in order to gain respectability.

-Currently NC A&T and SC State look like the MEAC's best chances at an At-Large Bid, and assuming one of those schools are going to the Celebration Bowl, the other will probably earn an At- Large Bid into the FCS playoffs.

We are a one bid FCS Playoff Conference at this point.

But aren't you the same guy who a few days ago said MEAC was having a 4 bid level year ?? 2 of your 3 chosen teams lost today to very bad teams.

Yet now you say Beth Cook "blew their chance to be ranked" ???? They lost to Delaware St .. who was ranked 125th out of 126 teams on Massey Composite.

How about just saying, "I was dead wrong about Beth Cook !!" And they have zero chance of a bid.

[walliver]

Bottom line:

The transitive property doesn't work in football
SC State, nevertheless, is under-rated.

[R.A.]

But aren't you the same guy who a few days ago said MEAC was having a 4 bid level year ?? 2 of your 3 chosen teams lost today to very bad teams.

Yet now you say Beth Cook "blew their chance to be ranked" ???? They lost to Delaware St .. who was ranked 125th out of 126 teams on Massey Composite.

How about just saying, "I was dead wrong about Beth Cook !!" And they have zero chance of a bid.

Bethune Cookman could still beat A&T and FAMU, two ranked teams...
...I'm the same guy that said Bethune- Cookman had to win two of their next three.

[Reign of Terrier]

After yesterday's developments I will say:
1) Yes, SC State is still underrated

2) the MEAC really blew their chances of respectability with BC and A&T losing to mediocre squads. And that's why the MEAC isn't at as high of a level as some of its proponents think. It's one thing to lose to a mediocre team in early September when no one can be defined as mediocre yet because we haven't played enough games but in November it's a killer.

3) Now, SC State may not make the playoffs but they're in good position to make the Celebration Bowl. If that happens I don't see another MEAC team in the postseason.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

After yesterday's developments I will say:
1) Yes, SC State is still underrated

2) the MEAC really blew their chances of respectability with BC and A&T losing to mediocre squads. And that's why the MEAC isn't at as high of a level as some of its proponents think. It's one thing to lose to a mediocre team in early September when no one can be defined as mediocre yet because we haven't played enough games but in November it's a killer.

3) Now, SC State may not make the playoffs but they're in good position to make the Celebration Bowl. If that happens I don't see another MEAC team in the postseason.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Mediocre ?????? They were both bad ... yeesh, you give rationalizing a bad name. They were bad ... just say it. They lost to bad teams. Not hard.

[Panther88]

Mediocre ?????? They were both bad ... yeesh, you give rationalizing a bad name. They were bad ... just say it. They lost to bad teams. Not hard.

+1. xlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

Mediocre ?????? They were both bad ... yeesh, you give rationalizing a bad name. They were bad ... just say it. They lost to bad teams. Not hard.I didn't care to check their record. I know there are 3 bad team, 2 mediocre teams, and 4 decent teams in the MEAC. I didn't care about the details, calm your tits.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

I didn't care to check their record. I know there are 3 bad team, 2 mediocre teams, and 4 decent teams in the MEAC. I didn't care about the details, calm your tits.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I would say MEAC has:

3 solid teams: FL A&M, NC A&T, SC State .. in that order according to records and head to head; but these are bubble teams at best for playoff or top 25. MVFC got just 3 teams last year ... hard to believe a 3rd place team from MEAC would qualify at this point. And again, SC State is just 5-3 agianst D-I teams.

1 ok team: Beth Cook .. capable of competing with top of MEAC yet also losing to bottom of MEAC, but not a good team.

2 weak teams .. NC Central and Norfolk

2 bad teams: Del St and Howard

[ejjones]

I would say MEAC has:

3 solid teams: FL A&M, NC A&T, SC State .. in that order according to records and head to head; but these are bubble teams at best for playoff or top 25. MVFC got just 3 teams last year ... hard to believe a 3rd place team from MEAC would qualify at this point. And again, SC State is just 5-3 agianst D-I teams.

1 ok team: Beth Cook .. capable of competing with top of MEAC yet also losing to bottom of MEAC, but not a good team.

2 weak teams .. NC Central and Norfolk

2 bad teams: Del St and Howard

Likewise, I would say the Southern Conference has:

3 solid teams: Furman, Wofford, Citadel
1 ok team: Chatty
3 weak teams: Mercer, VMI, Samford
2 bad teams: WCU, ETSU

[youwouldno]

Morgan St, NC Central, Del St., and Howard are significantly worse than any SoCon team. And SC State's win over Wofford is the conference's only real OOC win of any quality this year.

The top few teams are solid, but the bottom line is that the MEAC has a bad track record in the post-season, and then it removed its annual best team from the process. So at this point, it's unlikely the conference will ever establish itself as being competitive with the main FCS leagues. There have been and will continue to be MEAC teams that earn 'respect' in the polls, if they schedule well OOC and win those games.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Likewise, I would say the Southern Conference has:

3 solid teams: Furman, Wofford, Citadel
1 ok team: Chatty
3 weak teams: Mercer, VMI, Samford
2 bad teams: WCU, ETSU
agree with youwouldno ... SoCon is better at all 4 levels you and I layed out, but having a bad year by their standards IMO.

[Reign of Terrier]

I would say MEAC has:

3 solid teams: FL A&M, NC A&T, SC State .. in that order according to records and head to head; but these are bubble teams at best for playoff or top 25. MVFC got just 3 teams last year ... hard to believe a 3rd place team from MEAC would qualify at this point. And again, SC State is just 5-3 agianst D-I teams.

1 ok team: Beth Cook .. capable of competing with top of MEAC yet also losing to bottom of MEAC, but not a good team.

2 weak teams .. NC Central and Norfolk

2 bad teams: Del St and HowardCool, I'm not arguing that I'm just saying don't roast me as being a spin master when I put very little thought in a minute detail of a post of minimal consequence xlolx

And to be clear, SC state wins out and they are tied for second, not third. Blah blah blah tie breakers and autobids but it's not wrong.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

agree with youwouldno ... SoCon is better at all 4 levels you and I layed out, but having a bad year by their standards IMO.I agree. It's more of a year of changes overall. Samford and Western are very likely (IMO) the only team projected to be worse next year. Wofford and Chattanooga are probably better than they were the first couple weeks, Citadel is about as good as they normally are (except they are making the 1-2 plays they need to win these games), VMI will have fits of brilliance and mediocrity (as is the case with bad teams finding success), and ETSU lost 6 games by a touchdown or less this year. Mercer is very beat up. And Furman has been the most consistent throughout the year.

If we rewound the clock, I only feel confident in like 3 OOC games ending different (ETSU vs AP, Wofford vs SC State, UTC vs Jacksonville State) and only 2-3 conference games (Wofford/the citadel vs samford and I guess maybe the Wofford/UTC game bc that went to OT).





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[R.A.]

I would say MEAC has:

3 solid teams: FL A&M, NC A&T, SC State .. in that order according to records and head to head; but these are bubble teams at best for playoff or top 25. MVFC got just 3 teams last year ... hard to believe a 3rd place team from MEAC would qualify at this point. And again, SC State is just 5-3 agianst D-I teams.

1 ok team: Beth Cook .. capable of competing with top of MEAC yet also losing to bottom of MEAC, but not a good team.

2 weak teams .. NC Central and Norfolk

2 bad teams: Del St and Howard

This analysis is agreeable/not agreeable.

ONLY NOT AGREEABLE IN THE SENSE THAT MY SCHOOL'S ONE OF THE BAD TEAMS...

[R.A.]

Morgan St, NC Central, Del St., and Howard are significantly worse than any SoCon team. And SC State's win over Wofford is the conference's only real OOC win of any quality this year.

The top few teams are solid, but the bottom line is that the MEAC has a bad track record in the post-season, and then it removed its annual best team from the process. So at this point, it's unlikely the conference will ever establish itself as being competitive with the main FCS leagues. There have been and will continue to be MEAC teams that earn 'respect' in the polls, if they schedule well OOC and win those games.

Did you read the title of this thread before you wrote this sentence?

[R.A.]

agree with youwouldno ... SoCon is better at all 4 levels you and I layed out, but having a bad year by their standards IMO.

I desire a Wofford @ SC State rematch in the 2019 FCS Playoffs... because it's difficult for me to understand how someone is better than you if you've already defeated them. How is your solid team better than my solid team if my solid team already beat your solid team?

[Sir William]

I desire a Wofford @ SC State rematch in the 2019 FCS Playoffs...
If it happens, Wofford smokes 'em. Money in the bank.

[Reign of Terrier]

I desire a Wofford @ SC State rematch in the 2019 FCS Playoffs... because it's difficult for me to understand how someone is better than you if you've already defeated them. How is your solid team better than my solid team if my solid team already beat your solid team?


If it happens, Wofford smokes 'em. Money in the bank.

Here's what's going to happen: There's a very good chance (especially if the Citadel beats Chattanooga) that the winner of the Wofford/Furman game could get a seed, assuming Wofford beats Furman.

(I'll be completely honest, this analysis is dripping with the bias that I think Wofford will beat the Citadel; I'm not worried about that game as much as I am Furman).

If that happens and SC State makes the playoffs, they will play the loser of that game, who will travel to play the winner who is the seed.

So if Wofford beats Furman, it's no guarantee to be a rematch, because they'd have to go through Furman first. But paradoxically, Wofford beating Furman probably elevates SC State more than Furman beating Wofford.

I just don't want another seeded rematch with a Socon team. I'd actually rather see KSU and SC State play each other tbh. Even if it's not a game that will determine a quarterfinalist, I think that's a good matchup.


But honestly, I've been waiting for a rematch forever but it looks like it won't happen until September (T dogs by 90 IMO)

[youwouldno]

I desire a Wofford @ SC State rematch in the 2019 FCS Playoffs... because it's difficult for me to understand how someone is better than you if you've already defeated them. How is your solid team better than my solid team if my solid team already beat your solid team?

Well, the rankings are not head-to-head rankings, they account for the entire season to date.

Rankings would be impossible if you relied heavily on head-to-head results (since Team A beats Team B who beats Team C who beats Team A - it's circular). You can't do rankings like that. Feel free to try for this season, never ranking a team ahead of someone that beat them. You will quickly find it cannot be done.

So once you accept that teams must sometimes be ranked ahead of teams that beat them, you have to use another approach. That can be some mix of computer rankings, eye test, history, etc. . . . there is no definitive answer. Head-to-head results are of limited use unless the teams are very close in the rankings, which is not the case with Wofford & SC State.

[Reign of Terrier]

Rankings, like conference standings, are the average of your performance. That's why there are tie-breaking rules in conference standings that go beyond the transitive property.


On a sidenote, turning down the autobid for the playoffs for the MEAC puts them in a precarious situation. I don't know how that works. Like, on some level, if SC State doesn't get in, it's partially the conference's fault. Does the NCAA make it a rule that only the #1 team in the conference gets the bid or does the conference ultimately decide? If the MEAC let their second place team accept the auto, they wouldn't be in such a situation, but because they forgo in principle, the conference in general can't (and probably won't) complain.

I think SC State fans will be more disappointed they didn't get into the celebration bowl than they didn't get into the playoffs IMO. They already got their local bragging rights by beating Wofford and they probably won't win the national title, so I don't think they'd get too worked up about sitting home if they can't get the celebration bowl

- - - Updated - - -

[R.A.]

Well, the rankings are not head-to-head rankings, they account for the entire season to date.

Rankings would be impossible if you relied heavily on head-to-head results (since Team A beats Team B who beats Team C who beats Team A - it's circular). You can't do rankings like that. Feel free to try for this season, never ranking a team ahead of someone that beat them. You will quickly find it cannot be done.

So once you accept that teams must sometimes be ranked ahead of teams that beat them, you have to use another approach. That can be some mix of computer rankings, eye test, history, etc. . . . there is no definitive answer. Head-to-head results are of limited use unless the teams are very close in the rankings, which is not the case with Wofford & SC State.

I have accepted it this already, which is why I mentioned that the teams have equal records... both at 6-3.

But I'll mention even more...

The argument that Wofford plays a better OVERALL schedule than SC State MAY BE VALID, but then I could make the counter argument that SC State has played more ranked teams than Wofford also at this point in the season.

Wofford has gotten fat on mediocre SoCon teams, but lost to a Solid MEAC Team and has yet to play the two other solid SoCon Teams.

What ranked teams has Wofford even played? None.

*SC State has already beaten a ranked team,(Former #9, Current #23) Wofford.

*SC State has also played competitively in the losses versus ranked opponents; L vs. #16 FAMU 20-22, L vs. (#14/ Soon to drop in the rankings) NC A&T 38-42.

So while Wofford and SC State have both defeated competition that is poor to mediocre with SC State playing more poor teams, SC State is ALSO the only team between the two to even face ranked competition at this point in the season, and SC State is the only team between the two to DEFEAT rank competition this season... Wofford the team ranked ahead of them.

So, again, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE THAT WOFFORD IS RANKED AHEAD OF SOUTH CAROLINA STATE.

Wofford has yet to prove themselves this season, while SC State has already proven that they are solid.
-----------------------
At this point, there's no legitimate justifiable way to have Wofford ranked ahead of SC State. Even if The SoCon's better than the MEAC, Wofford has lost to the MEAC's best and hasn't played the SoCon's best.

[R.A.]

Rankings, like conference standings, are the average of your performance. That's why there are tie-breaking rules in conference standings that go beyond the transitive property.


On a sidenote, turning down the autobid for the playoffs for the MEAC puts them in a precarious situation. I don't know how that works. Like, on some level, if SC State doesn't get in, it's partially the conference's fault. Does the NCAA make it a rule that only the #1 team in the conference gets the bid or does the conference ultimately decide? If the MEAC let their second place team accept the auto, they wouldn't be in such a situation, but because they forgo in principle, the conference in general can't (and probably won't) complain.

I think SC State fans will be more disappointed they didn't get into the celebration bowl than they didn't get into the playoffs IMO. They already got their local bragging rights by beating Wofford and they probably won't win the national title, so I don't think they'd get too worked up about sitting home if they can't get the celebration bowl

- - - Updated - - -
SC State has i-AA/FCS Playoff history and dedicate fans are all too familiar with the MEAC's playoff history.

When the "Legacy Bowl' was propose before the Celebration Bowl, SC State's former President was one of the MEAC leaders to write a letter AGAINST giving up our automatic bid to the Playoffs.

If SC State doesn't make the Celebration Bowl, their fan base will DEFINITELY want to be in the FCS Playoffs if they qualify.

[youwouldno]

I have accepted it this already, which is why I mentioned that the teams have equal records... both at 6-3.

But I'll mention even more...

The argument that Wofford plays a better OVERALL schedule than SC State MAY BE VALID, but then I could make the counter argument that SC State has played more ranked teams than Wofford also at this point in the season.

Wofford has gotten fat on mediocre SoCon teams, but lost to a Solid MEAC Team and has yet to play the two other solid SoCon Teams.

What ranked teams has Wofford even played? None.

*SC State has already beaten a ranked team,(Former #9, Current #23) Wofford.

*SC State has also played competitively in the losses versus ranked opponents; L vs. #16 FAMU 20-22, L vs. (#14/ Soon to drop in the rankings) NC A&T 38-42.

So while Wofford and SC State have both defeated competition that is poor to mediocre with SC State playing more poor teams, SC State is ALSO the only team between the two to even face ranked competition at this point in the season, and SC State is the only team between the two to DEFEAT rank competition this season... Wofford the team ranked ahead of them.

So, again, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE THAT WOFFORD IS RANKED AHEAD OF SOUTH CAROLINA STATE.

Wofford has yet to prove themselves this season, while SC State has already proven that they are solid.
-----------------------
At this point, there's no legitimate justifiable way to have Wofford ranked ahead of SC State. Even if The SoCon's better than the MEAC, Wofford has lost to the MEAC's best and hasn't played the SoCon's best.

I would rank Wofford ahead of SC State because I think Wofford is the better team, despite the head-to-head outcome (not voting in AGS this year, so it's purely hypothetical). SC State lost at home to the other 2 solid teams they've played, and have not dominated inferior teams the way that they should have. Wofford would unquestionably be favored in the rematch (by the computers and sportsbooks).

[R.A.]

I would rank Wofford ahead of SC State because I think Wofford is the better team, despite the head-to-head outcome (not voting in AGS this year, so it's purely hypothetical). SC State lost at home to the other 2 solid teams they've played, and have not dominated inferior teams the way that they should have. Wofford would unquestionably be favored in the rematch (by the computers and sportsbooks).

I watched Wofford's game versus Mercer... it looks like the same offense they used in Week One versus SC State. Wofford's Offense looks better now, but the competition that Wofford has played arguably hasn't been as good as SC State either. I'd say the best FCS defense Wofford has faced thus far has been SC State's.

As for SC State not dominating inferior teams, they just put up 66 points on my sorry Howard Bison.

[843yapterrier]

Obviously i am bias, but scoreboard wise Wofford has been much stronger. Winning six FCS games in a row. Most by large margins (larger than even the score really). Wofford is NOT running the wing T anymore but they also are not the same offense that played the S.C. State Bulldogs in week one. 20 first half throws.

I think S.C. State is a strong program that doesn’t get the respect they deserve (same for the MEAC) but looking at the entire season I think clearly Wofford is the better team. Transitive arguments aside.

[youwouldno]

I watched Wofford's game versus Mercer... it looks like the same offense they used in Week One versus SC State. Wofford's Offense looks better now, but the competition that Wofford has played arguably hasn't been as good as SC State either. I'd say the best FCS defense Wofford has faced thus far has been SC State's.

As for SC State not dominating inferior teams, they just put up 66 points on my sorry Howard Bison.

Wofford's offense was clearly not clicking early in the year - their showing in week 2 against Samford was even worse, considering how bad Samford is defensively. They've been putting up a lot of points since. ETSU has a better defense than SC State, though it's fair to say SC State is #2 defensively that Wofford has faced to date.

SC State did blow out Howard, but even putting aside that Howard is one of the weakest teams in FCS, SC State hadn't had a particularly impressive performance since that Wofford game. When a team starts outside the polls, one win against a borderline top 25 team is not enough to get a ton of respect. What have they done after that?

Wofford has no signature wins, but they have been a highly competitive team for many, many years, and they've looked to be back on track. I definitely can see the argument that Wofford should not be ranked, but that doesn't really help SC State because then their best win is devalued.

[Reign of Terrier]

I watched Wofford's game versus Mercer... it looks like the same offense they used in Week One versus SC State. Wofford's Offense looks better now, but the competition that Wofford has played arguably hasn't been as good as SC State either. I'd say the best FCS defense Wofford has faced thus far has been SC State's.

As for SC State not dominating inferior teams, they just put up 66 points on my sorry Howard Bison.Sorry bud, the socon is better than the MEAC.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[ejjones]

Obviously i am bias, but scoreboard wise Wofford has been much stronger. Winning six FCS games in a row. Most by large margins (larger than even the score really). Wofford is NOT running the wing T anymore but they also are not the same offense that played the S.C. State Bulldogs in week one. 20 first half throws.

I think S.C. State is a strong program that doesn’t get the respect they deserve (same for the MEAC) but looking at the entire season I think clearly Wofford is the better team. Transitive arguments aside.
Wofford OL would get mangled by SC State DL. Our secondary is depleted, but y’all don’t throw it. BTW, SC State isn’t running the same offense either. We have a RS Freshman at QB who is looking really good. 7 TDs in 3 quarters got him a sticker on ESPN.

If he would have started and played the entire game against A&T & FAMU we would be undefeated in conference play.

I’ll holdout my judgement on Wofford until they play a solid teams...which is next week. I’m actually rooting for ya, bc it helps our resume.

[gofurman]

I watched Wofford's game versus Mercer... it looks like the same offense they used in Week One versus SC State. Wofford's Offense looks better now, but the competition that Wofford has played arguably hasn't been as good as SC State either. I'd say the best FCS defense Wofford has faced thus far has been SC State's.

As for SC State not dominating inferior teams, they just put up 66 points on my sorry Howard Bison.

As a Furman fan I have no love for Wofford - esp this week... however, to say they are using the same offense now as they used vs SC State when they threw 20 times in first half is.. well, just WEIRD. They are not running the same offense. WHile many of the plays are the same they have dialed back the passing and gone back to what these seniors (esp QB and OL) know - RUNNING.

FACTS - vs SC State WOff threw 20 times in first HALF !!
this week v Mercer they threw 17 times total.
vs western they threw 13 times total.
vs ETSU they threw 7 times total.

all that said if SC State deserves to be in playoffs i hope they get in ! I do. Just saying WOff is running some of the same plays but has cut their passing output and in doing so is winning very well.

I just looked. man even vs a Woff team with FOUR turnovers... SC State averaged less than 3 yards per carry. That's not good. As my son says, "that ain't good if you cant run for about 4 yds per carry". LOL I hadn't looked at WOff v SC State stats until just now. I knew they had turnovers + 3 for SC State (which count) but didn't realize SC State ran for 75 yards on 28 attempts.. averaging 2.7 yards per carry. That isn't SC State football to me. Ive been there and watched games. TOtal yards - Woff 300, SC State 275. man- Neither team could move the ball.

ANyway, heck, I would love a Furman v SC State playoff game.. it's possible. Hope SC State makes the playoffs

[ejjones]

As a Furman fan I have no love for Wofford - esp this week... however, to say they are using the same offense now as they used vs SC State when they threw 20 times in first half is.. well, just WEIRD. They are not running the same offense. WHile many of the plays are the same they have dialed back the passing and gone back to what these seniors (esp QB and OL) know - RUNNING.

FACTS - vs SC State WOff threw 20 times in first HALF !!
this week v Mercer they threw 17 times total.
vs western they threw 13 times total.
vs ETSU they threw 7 times total.

all that said if SC State deserves to be in playoffs i hope they get in ! I do. Just saying WOff is running some of the same plays but has cut their passing output and in doing so is winning very well.

I just looked. man even vs a Woff team with FOUR turnovers... SC State averaged less than 3 yards per carry. That's not good. As my son says, "that ain't good if you cant run for about 4 yds per carry". LOL I hadn't looked at WOff v SC State stats until just now. I knew they had turnovers + 3 for SC State (which count) but didn't realize SC State ran for 75 yards on 28 attempts.. averaging 2.7 yards per carry. That isn't SC State football to me. Ive been there and watched games. TOtal yards - Woff 300, SC State 275. man- Neither team could move the ball.

ANyway, heck, I would love a Furman v SC State playoff game.. it's possible. Hope SC State makes the playoffs
Wofford got those yards in garbage time & against 3rd stringers...the game was never close. If I remember, Woff ran a 8 man box so we had no running lanes. We played an athletic QB who was known more for the run.
Teams can’t stack the box against our young QB...he’s going to be good for a long time.

[R.A.]

As a Furman fan I have no love for Wofford - esp this week... however, to say they are using the same offense now as they used vs SC State when they threw 20 times in first half is.. well, just WEIRD. They are not running the same offense. WHile many of the plays are the same they have dialed back the passing and gone back to what these seniors (esp QB and OL) know - RUNNING.

FACTS - vs SC State WOff threw 20 times in first HALF !!
this week v Mercer they threw 17 times total.
vs western they threw 13 times total.
vs ETSU they threw 7 times total.



So lets go back to that Wofford at SC State game.

The score at Halftime was 14-3 SC State had the lead. So, yeah. If you're unexpectedly down early to a team you didn't properly prepare for; you might panic and throw more.

But just because Wofford threw more, does not mean that the offensive scheme that they're throwing out of is completely different.



all that said if SC State deserves to be in playoffs i hope they get in ! I do. Just saying WOff is running some of the same plays but has cut their passing output and in doing so is winning very well.

I just looked. man even vs a Woff team with FOUR turnovers... SC State averaged less than 3 yards per carry. That's not good. As my son says, "that ain't good if you cant run for about 4 yds per carry". LOL I hadn't looked at WOff v SC State stats until just now. I knew they had turnovers + 3 for SC State (which count) but didn't realize SC State ran for 75 yards on 28 attempts.. averaging 2.7 yards per carry. That isn't SC State football to me. Ive been there and watched games. TOtal yards - Woff 300, SC State 275. man- Neither team could move the ball.

ANyway, heck, I would love a Furman v SC State playoff game.. it's possible. Hope SC State makes the playoffs

I'm interested to see if Furman is the top team in the SoCon this next weekend.

[R.A.]

Sorry bud, the socon is better than the MEAC.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

In 2019 as of today, what FCS defense has Wofford faced that's better than SC State's defense?

[PaladinFan]

In 2019 as of today, what FCS defense has Wofford faced that's better than SC State's defense?

Wofford has yet to play the other two best teams in the SoCon. They'll see a marked step up in defensive quality beginning Saturday.

[Redbird 4th & short]

So I'm starting to partly see R.A, argument, though still believe that Wofford has the better overall resume .. I also put slightly less weight on game 1, when SC State beat Wofford, than I do the mroe recent games. Wofford lost their 1st 2 games.

Removing the FBS games from each, here is Wofford FCS results: after losing their first 2 FCS, they've won 6 straight by an avg of nearly 30 points per game mostly against teams ranked (by Massey) between 50 and 100.



Sat 11-09
at
Mercer (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4649&s=308075)
75(4-6)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930076422)
41
7



Sat 10-26

Chattanooga (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7809&s=308075)
51(5-5)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074548)
35
34



Sat 10-19

W Carolina (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8742&s=308075)
99(3-7)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930078952)
59
7



Sat 10-05
at
ETSU (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2321&s=308075)
92(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930075125)
35
17



Sat 09-28
at
VMI (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8450&s=308075)
79(4-6)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930078803)
51
36



Sat 09-21

Gardner Webb (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2825&s=308075)
109(3-7)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930075325)
49
10



Sat 09-14

Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=308075)
67(4-6)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077708)
14
21



Sat 08-31
at
S Carolina St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7250&s=308075)
58(6-3)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077785)
13
28




Here are SC State results: They are 5-2, compared to Wofford 6-2, and have lost 2 of their last 5. But putting aside those 2 more recent FC S losses, their 5 FCS wins, there is only 1 blowout (Howard last week); the other 4 games the avg margin is about 13 points per game. If you include Howard, it jumps to 20 points per game, but Howard is clearly the outlier in their SC State 5 wins. And this avg margin is against teams ranked, 31 (Wofford in week 1), and then 84, 104, 119, and 120.





Sat 11-09

Howard (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3359&s=308075)
120(1-9)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930339909)
62
21



Sat 11-02

NC A&T (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5500&s=308075)
52(6-3)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=931027726)
20
22



Sat 10-26
at
Bethune-Cookman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=691&s=308075)
84(6-3)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074158)
27
19



Sat 10-19

Morgan St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5114&s=308075)
104(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930076744)
24
10



Sat 10-12

Florida A&M (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2633&s=308075)
43(8-1)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=931158617)
38
42



Sat 10-05
at
Delaware St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2118&s=308075)
119(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074932)
38
24



Sat 08-31

Wofford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9126&s=308075)
31(6-3)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077785)
28
13



So according to Massey, SC State has 2 slightly better losses, but Wofford as 6 much better wins and has won 6 straight. But like you asked, it is correct to question what Wofford wil be able to do against 2 of the better teams on their schedule.

But that question in itself reveals how much tougher Woffords schedule is than SC State .. it is already stronger, and they still have to play the 2 best FCS teams on their schedule. SC State has to play Massey #s 106 and 81. Wofford still has to play Massey # 19 and 41.

The week 1 result is in your favor, but Wofford is the hotter and more dominant team. And by time game 12 is played, they will have played a much tougher schedule. That has to count for something, which is why I still pick Wofford over SC State as of 10 games.

Now if Wofford lasy 2 eggs, and SC State has more dominant wins, I woudl certainly change my mind. But if Wofford is competitive and goes 1-1, and SC State beats their teams by 15 or so. I would stay with Wofford.

But again, I now partly see your argument and the gap is narrower than I thought as of this week.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford has yet to play the other two best teams in the SoCon. They'll see a marked step up in defensive quality beginning Saturday.Okay now this is 50% bull****, ETSU's defense is better than the Citadel.

The Citadel defense isn't bad per se, but it's pretty vulnerable. Right now, the citadel defense let's teams score on them about 40% of the time in conference play, while their offense is at an impressive 50%ish.

Considering the Citadel and their opponents possess the ball about 10 possessions a game (compared to 11-12 by the rest of the conference) the citadel strategy is to lean on their offense and "dominate by 4"

For point of reference, Furman allows socon opponents to score 25% of the time and Wofford allows them about 30%. ETSU sits at 26% and the citadel and Chattanooga are both about 40%.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

If only there were media covering the Wofford terriers and outlining their coaches' mindset over the coarse of the season. Oh wait, there is: https://www.goupstate.com/sports/20191016/woffords-offense-back-on-target

I will say what I already said in this thread: Wofford lost to SC State because we passed way too much in the first half and then threw dumb interceptions on the 7 passed we threw. We came out expecting SC State to be on a level of Gardner Webb, when they weren't, had all these young, fast underclassmen we wanted to get the ball to and so came out guns ablazing and it didn't go so hot.

Most of SC State's possessions started at Wofford's 40 or better, they only had 276 yards of offense and capitalized greatly on Wofford's 4 turnovers (which, by the way, is more turnovers than Wofford has had for the rest of the season combined).

Credit SC State for winning that game, beating the tar out of us, and out-executing us in game one.

But it's pretty clear that we were breaking in a new passing game and power run scheme that the coaching staff admits was a little over the top for game one. We didn't call pass plays 20 times in the first half because we were down, it was by an overconfident strategy. If the "throwing because we were down" hypothesis were true, you'd see us throw more in the second half, but we only threw 7 times.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[R.A.]

So I'm starting to partly see R.A, argument, though still believe that Wofford has the better overall resume .. I also put slightly less weight on game 1, when SC State beat Wofford, than I do the mroe recent games. Wofford lost their 1st 2 games.

Removing the FBS games from each, here is Wofford FCS results: after losing their first 2 FCS, they've won 6 straight by an avg of nearly 30 points per game mostly against teams ranked (by Massey) between 50 and 100.



Sat 11-09
at
Mercer (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4649&s=308075)
75(4-6)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930076422)
41
7



Sat 10-26

Chattanooga (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7809&s=308075)
51(5-5)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074548)
35
34



Sat 10-19

W Carolina (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8742&s=308075)
99(3-7)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930078952)
59
7



Sat 10-05
at
ETSU (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2321&s=308075)
92(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930075125)
35
17



Sat 09-28
at
VMI (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8450&s=308075)
79(4-6)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930078803)
51
36



Sat 09-21

Gardner Webb (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2825&s=308075)
109(3-7)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930075325)
49
10



Sat 09-14

Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=308075)
67(4-6)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077708)
14
21



Sat 08-31
at
S Carolina St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7250&s=308075)
58(6-3)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077785)
13
28




Here are SC State results: They are 5-2, compared to Wofford 6-2, and have lost 2 of their last 5. But putting aside those 2 more recent FC S losses, their 5 FCS wins, there is only 1 blowout (Howard last week); the other 4 games the avg margin is about 13 points per game. If you include Howard, it jumps to 20 points per game, but Howard is clearly the outlier in their SC State 5 wins. And this avg margin is against teams ranked, 31 (Wofford in week 1), and then 84, 104, 119, and 120.





Sat 11-09

Howard (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3359&s=308075)
120(1-9)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930339909)
62
21



Sat 11-02

NC A&T (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5500&s=308075)
52(6-3)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=931027726)
20
22



Sat 10-26
at
Bethune-Cookman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=691&s=308075)
84(6-3)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074158)
27
19



Sat 10-19

Morgan St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5114&s=308075)
104(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930076744)
24
10



Sat 10-12

Florida A&M (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2633&s=308075)
43(8-1)
L (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=931158617)
38
42



Sat 10-05
at
Delaware St (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2118&s=308075)
119(2-8)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930074932)
38
24



Sat 08-31

Wofford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9126&s=308075)
31(6-3)
W (https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=930077785)
28
13



So according to Massey, SC State has 2 slightly better losses, but Wofford as 6 much better wins and has won 6 straight. But like you asked, it is correct to question what Wofford wil be able to do against 2 of the better teams on their schedule.

But that question in itself reveals how much tougher Woffords schedule is than SC State .. it is already stronger, and they still have to play the 2 best FCS teams on their schedule. SC State has to play Massey #s 106 and 81. Wofford still has to play Massey # 19 and 41.

The week 1 result is in your favor, but Wofford is the hotter and more dominant team. And by time game 12 is played, they will have played a much tougher schedule. That has to count for something, which is why I still pick Wofford over SC State as of 10 games.

Now if Wofford lasy 2 eggs, and SC State has more dominant wins, I woudl certainly change my mind. But if Wofford is competitive and goes 1-1, and SC State beats their teams by 15 or so. I would stay with Wofford.

But again, I now partly see your argument and the gap is narrower than I thought as of this week.

If SC State can legitimately blow out Central and Norfolk State... yeah, then I would say it leaves little doubt that SC State would deserve an At- Large Bid. One interesting thing here is that SC State can still win the MEAC at this point.

Another interesting thing is that SC State travels to Raleigh and Norfolk for their final two games and these are two locations and two teams that have absolutely given Coach Buddy Pough FITS throughout his career.


So in all of my advocacy for SC State to get an at-large bid, I am also genuinely concerned that the Bulldogs will slip up in these last two games. Norfolk State's offense is speedy for a MEAC squad, and Central is stout when they want to be.

But if SC State's passing game is what they say it is in Orangeburg, and they can produce blowout victories in their final two games, then they should be playoff bound.
----------------------

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, anyone claiming Wofford ran all over 3rd stringers didn't watch the film. What kind of a coach puts in third stringers up 15ish?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Professor]

Morgan St, NC Central, Del St., and Howard are significantly worse than any SoCon team. And SC State's win over Wofford is the conference's only real OOC win of any quality this year.

The top few teams are solid, but the bottom line is that the MEAC has a bad track record in the post-season, and then it removed its annual best team from the process. So at this point, it's unlikely the conference will ever establish itself as being competitive with the main FCS leagues. There have been and will continue to be MEAC teams that earn 'respect' in the polls, if they schedule well OOC and win those games.

And when a MEAC school wins an out of conference game, it is made out as a fluke. Just hilarious imo.

[Professor]

Rankings, like conference standings, are the average of your performance. That's why there are tie-breaking rules in conference standings that go beyond the transitive property.


On a sidenote, turning down the autobid for the playoffs for the MEAC puts them in a precarious situation. I don't know how that works. Like, on some level, if SC State doesn't get in, it's partially the conference's fault. Does the NCAA make it a rule that only the #1 team in the conference gets the bid or does the conference ultimately decide? If the MEAC let their second place team accept the auto, they wouldn't be in such a situation, but because they forgo in principle, the conference in general can't (and probably won't) complain.

I think SC State fans will be more disappointed they didn't get into the celebration bowl than they didn't get into the playoffs IMO. They already got their local bragging rights by beating Wofford and they probably won't win the national title, so I don't think they'd get too worked up about sitting home if they can't get the celebration bowl

- - - Updated - - -

ESPN dictates that it must be the top team must go to the bowl. And no one is complaining other than a head to head win is being discounted. SCSU at 8-3 should be in the playoffs. Case closed

[AggieManiac704]

I am quite impressed at the reasoning & analytics some of you guys use in here.....

can't hate on it at all... i see both sides

[Redbird 4th & short]

ESPN dictates that it must be the top team must go to the bowl. And no one is complaining other than a head to head win is being discounted. SCSU at 8-3 should be in the playoffs. Case closed
need to reopen your case file ... they can't include the D-II win over Lane .. best they can do is 7-3, they are currently 5-3.

[R.A.]

need to reopen your case file ... they can't include the D-II win over Lane .. best they can do is 7-3, they are currently 5-3.

I don't think Wofford is going to beat Furman.

I think Wofford and SC State can both finish with 7 FCS wins also.

The problem is that I think most people already assume Furman will beat Wofford, and those same people WILL STILL put Wofford into the playoffs ahead of SC State WITH SC STATE'S VICTORY OVER WOFFORD.

And that's where my Beef comes in... the bias.

A MEAC school can win out of conference games, do well in conference, and still miss the playoffs even with a decent record.

[WileECoyote06]

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.

[WileECoyote06]

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.

- - - Updated - - -

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.

[FUBeAR]

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.


Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.
when you go to Wendy’s, you get the Triple, don’t you? That’s A LOT of beef! :D

[Bison56]

My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.


My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.


My beef comes from the discrepancy in their rankings. I can accept some logic in saying Wofford should be ahead of SCSU. However, there shouldn't be 500 points between them.

Austin Peay and SE Missouri State are in a similar situation and are separated by only 268 points.


What?

[WileECoyote06]

when you go to Wendy’s, you get the Triple, don’t you? That’s A LOT of beef! :D

Stupid 503 message came up, so I thought my post didn't go through. I'd tried to delete but that didn't work either. lol

[iceman4221]

At the end of the day, the "head to head" is used by the NFL, FBS, Division II and Division III Football to delineate between two Football Teams under consideration for Post Season.

At Any Given Saturday, Head to Head Lost, only matter from the perspective of Historical Playoff Performances... What Kind of "Cock A Main Knee" Bull She-It is That?!?!?!

You Guys have Self-In Grained Biases that Defy Logic... No one ever says, a team was experimenting and loss a ball game (GoFurman), IMPLYING, if they had done what they are doing now, they would have won...

In Every Football Game, I have watched since 1971, the coach of the lossing team, makes adjustments when the original game plan is failing to produce results... The funny thing here is SOS, supersedes Head-to-Head.

No Team controls their strength of schedule - predicting opponents W-L is futile from season to season. Ask Alabama about that SOS argument versus Clemson in the 2019 FBS Championship Game 44-16 - that throttling
makes the SOS argument null and void... That's precisely the reason why the head-to-head is the tie breaker in the NFL, FBS, Div II and Div III playoffs...

You guys are not being objective, you are pilfering for excuses to justify an unequivocally wrong notion... I suggest you read my tag line, and wake up from whatever malaise ails you...

This is not subjective, a head-to-head win is an objective measure - everything else being discussed in this particular forum post is pure conjecture - that SCSU 28 Wofford 13 football game is in the record Books and the
individual teams Strength Of Schedule had nothing to do with the outcome... That was an original Any Given Saturday FCS Football affair that is recorded in the record books forever - none of these comments are in the record books.
312143121531216

[gofurman]

At the end of the day, the "head to head" is used by the NFL, FBS, Division II and Division III Football to delineate between two Football Teams under consideration for Post Season.

At Any Given Saturday, Head to Head Lost, only matter from the perspective of Historical Playoff Performances... What Kind of "Cock A Main Knee" Bull She-It is That?!?!?!

You Guys have Self-In Grained Biases that Defy Logic... No one ever says, a team was experimenting and loss a ball game (GoFurman), IMPLYING, if they had done what they are doing now, they would have won...

In Every Football Game, I have watched since 1971, the coach of the lossing team, makes adjustments when the original game plan is failing to produce results... The funny thing here is SOS, supersedes Head-to-Head.

No Team controls their strength of schedule - predicting opponents W-L is futile from season to season. Ask Alabama about that SOS argument versus Clemson in the 2019 FBS Championship Game 44-16 - that throttling
makes the SOS argument null and void... That's precisely the reason why the head-to-head is the tie breaker in the NFL, FBS, Div II and Div III playoffs...

You guys are not being objective, you are pilfering for excuses to justify an unequivocally wrong notion... I suggest you read my tag line, and wake up from whatever malaise ails you...

This is not subjective, a head-to-head win is an objective measure - everything else being discussed in this particular forum post is pure conjecture - that SCSU 28 Wofford 13 football game is in the record Books and the
individual teams Strength Of Schedule had nothing to do with the outcome... That was an original Any Given Saturday FCS Football affair that is recorded in the record books forever - none of these comments are in the record books.
312143121531216



Look, Calm down. I wish only the best for SC State. Hope you make the playoffs. I was just advocating that teams change. They do. Furman did in 2017 going 0-3 and then ran off 7 of 8 wins to make playoffs. We were twice as good by game seven as game 1. Woff is WAAAAAY better now. Wish we coulda played them in September when they lost to Samford at home who Furman beat 58-14 road!!! That’s not wo Wofford is now. They are legit top 25 now. Teams get hot. Teams change.

that does not take away from SC State. However it is BODY OF WORK. thus two teams can legitimately have the head to head winner ranked (correctly) behind the loser. I mean if 7-1 team A loses to 3-4 team B should team B jump all the way ahead of team A? No. I think a Woff has more in their body of work despite the head to head loss. However, I don’t think Woff should be ranked so far ahead of SC State. I agree

[R.A.]

At the end of the day, the "head to head" is used by the NFL, FBS, Division II and Division III Football to delineate between two Football Teams under consideration for Post Season.

At Any Given Saturday, Head to Head Lost, only matter from the perspective of Historical Playoff Performances... What Kind of "Cock A Main Knee" Bull She-It is That?!?!?!

You Guys have Self-In Grained Biases that Defy Logic... No one ever says, a team was experimenting and loss a ball game (GoFurman), IMPLYING, if they had done what they are doing now, they would have won...

In Every Football Game, I have watched since 1971, the coach of the lossing team, makes adjustments when the original game plan is failing to produce results... The funny thing here is SOS, supersedes Head-to-Head.

No Team controls their strength of schedule - predicting opponents W-L is futile from season to season. Ask Alabama about that SOS argument versus Clemson in the 2019 FBS Championship Game 44-16 - that throttling
makes the SOS argument null and void... That's precisely the reason why the head-to-head is the tie breaker in the NFL, FBS, Div II and Div III playoffs...

You guys are not being objective, you are pilfering for excuses to justify an unequivocally wrong notion... I suggest you read my tag line, and wake up from whatever malaise ails you...

This is not subjective, a head-to-head win is an objective measure - everything else being discussed in this particular forum post is pure conjecture - that SCSU 28 Wofford 13 football game is in the record Books and the
individual teams Strength Of Schedule had nothing to do with the outcome... That was an original Any Given Saturday FCS Football affair that is recorded in the record books forever - none of these comments are in the record books.
312143121531216
I think if SC State finishes 8-3, that they have a legitimate case for making it to the playoffs.

But away at NC Central and away at Norfolk State won't be easy games for Buddy Pough to win... but if he can win them (and the Bulldogs don't earn the MEAC's Celebration Bowl Bid), I think a rematch in Orangeburg versus Wofford is in their future.

[R.A.]

SoCon Champ Wofford (7-3), gained the conference's Automatic bid today with their victory over Furman...
...which means...
the MEAC's third rank team South Carolina State (7-3), defeated the SoCon's Champion this season.

If SC State finishes 8-3, with 7 FCS wins, including a win over SoCon Champion Wofford, SC State should be playoff bound.

*Versus ranked teams, SC State is 1-2, One victory 28-13 over Wofford, a 38-42 loss versus FAMU (who is ineligible for the Post Season), and a 20-22 loss versus NC A&T. If A&T wins their final game versus rival NC Central, A&T will be the MEAC's Celebration Bowl participant.

*Versus potential Post- Season teams, SC State is 1-1, with a victory over Wofford, and a loss to A&T.

*In SC State's last two games, they've blown out Howard 62-21 and shut out NC Central 24-0.

*SC State should be ranked already, and if the SC State Bulldogs defeat Norfolk State next Saturday and finish the season 8-3, the Bulldogs will deserve post-season participation.

[BisonFan02]

SoCon Champ Wofford (7-3), gained the conference's Automatic bid today with their victory over Furman...
...which means...
the MEAC's third rank team South Carolina State (7-3), defeated the SoCon's Champion this season.

If SC State finishes 8-3, with 7 FCS wins, including a win over SoCon Champion Wofford, SC State should be playoff bound.

Come on up to Fargo. :D

[grizband]

I think if SC State finishes 8-3, that they have a legitimate case for making it to the playoffs.

But away at NC Central and away at Norfolk State won't be easy games for Buddy Pough to win... but if he can win them (and the Bulldogs don't earn the MEAC's Celebration Bowl Bid), I think a rematch in Orangeburg versus Wofford is in their future.Norfolk State should be an easy win for any team with playoff aspirations. Or am I missing something here?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[gofurman]

SoCon Champ Wofford (7-3), gained the conference's Automatic bid today with their victory over Furman...
...which means...
the MEAC's third rank team South Carolina State (7-3), defeated the SoCon's Champion this season.

If SC State finishes 8-3, with 7 FCS wins, including a win over SoCon Champion Wofford, SC State should be playoff bound.

*Versus ranked teams, SC State is 1-2, One victory 28-13 over Wofford, a 38-42 loss versus FAMU (who is ineligible for the Post Season), and a 20-22 loss versus NC A&T. If A&T wins their final game versus rival NC Central, A&T will be the MEAC's Celebration Bowl participant.

*Versus potential Post- Season teams, SC State is 1-1, with a victory over Wofford, and a loss to A&T.

*In SC State's last two games, they've blown out Howard 62-21 and shut out NC Central 24-0.

*SC State should be ranked already, and if the SC State Bulldogs defeat Norfolk State next Saturday and finish the season 8-3, the Bulldogs will deserve post-season participation.

hope SC state gets in if they win their remaining games. That said after all this if they get in playoffs and get crushed I’m not listening to any more MEAC talk next year. xdrunkyx Jk. Good luck w your upcoming games

[R.A.]

Norfolk State should be an easy win for any team with playoff aspirations. Or am I missing something here?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Coach Pough has bad history playing on the road within the MEAC in cold windy rainy weather. In the past when post seasons were on the line, Pough would lose games versus Del State, NC Central, and Norfolk State; games that he should win.
-------------------
If SC State beats Norfolk State handily on the road next Saturday, then the Bulldogs will have proven they are playoff ready.

grizband, you're not missing anything. If SC State beats a below average Norfolk State, the same way the Bulldogs defeated my weak Howard Bison 62-21, and weak NC Central 24-0, then then the Bulldogs are obviously playoff material.

[R.A.]

hope SC state gets in if they win their remaining games. That said after all this if they get in playoffs and get crushed I’m not listening to any more MEAC talk next year. xdrunkyx Jk. Good luck w your upcoming games

The last four times SC State made The Playoffs, one was a crush... 2010 Georgia Southern 41-16. The other games; close calls. 2008 Appalachian State 37-21 (Last second unnecessary hail mary touchdown by App. State enhanced this score). 2009 Appalachian State 20-13 (Bumbled field goal which would have put SC State ahead 16-13 got returned the other way and turned into the game winning score for App. State). 2013 Furman 30-20 (A close game throughout, SC State struggled to put points up).

[gofurman]

The last four times SC State made The Playoffs, one was a crush... 2010 Georgia Southern 41-16. The other games; close calls. 2008 Appalachian State 37-21 (Last second unnecessary hail mary touchdown by App. State enhanced this score). 2009 Appalachian State 20-13 (Bumbled field goal which would have put SC State ahead 16-13 got returned the other way and turned into the game winning score for App. State). 2013 Furman 30-20 (A close game throughout, SC State struggled to put points up).

RA. you are right. you seem an intelligent guy and go have facts. I like it.

The problem as we all know is the MEAC just can’t seem to get over hump in playoffs @ I was at the Furman SC State game in 2013. Enjoyed some barbecue!

Objectively that was a pretty mediocre Furman team who got blown out by NDSU the next week ( who doesn’t lol ). That Furman team had a great D but no O. As you rightly note, SC State just couldn’t put up points. That was Furmans MO all year. Winning by D and special teams. I think our O was actually LAST in SoCOn and yet we won the conference - weird.

I am really asking what is MEAC last win in playoffs ?? Not being rude, I just don’t know. Figured you might ?

[R.A.]

RA. you are right. you seem an intelligent guy and go have facts. I like it.

The problem as we all know is the MEAC just can’t seem to get over hump in playoffs @ I was at the Furman SC State game in 2013. Enjoyed some barbecue!

Objectively that was a pretty mediocre Furman team who got blown out by NDSU the next week ( who doesn’t lol ). That Furman team had a great D but no O. As you rightly note, SC State just couldn’t put up points. That was Furmans MO all year. Winning by D and special teams. I think our O was actually LAST in SoCOn and yet we won the conference - weird.

I am really asking what is MEAC last win in playoffs ?? Not being rude, I just don’t know. Figured you might ?

1999
NC A&T 24, Tennessee State 10
FAMU 44, Appalachian State 29
FAMU 17, Troy State 10

and I believe SC State and Furman are tied 1-1 in the 1-AA/ FCS Playoffs.
1982
SC State 17, Furman 0
2013
Furman 30, SC State 20

[Redbird 4th & short]

RA. you are right. you seem an intelligent guy and go have facts. I like it.

The problem as we all know is the MEAC just can’t seem to get over hump in playoffs @ I was at the Furman SC State game in 2013. Enjoyed some barbecue!

Objectively that was a pretty mediocre Furman team who got blown out by NDSU the next week ( who doesn’t lol ). That Furman team had a great D but no O. As you rightly note, SC State just couldn’t put up points. That was Furmans MO all year. Winning by D and special teams. I think our O was actually LAST in SoCOn and yet we won the conference - weird.

I am really asking what is MEAC last win in playoffs ?? Not being rude, I just don’t know. Figured you might ?

they are 0-8 in last 9 years, with most being blowouts.

In 2010, they got 2 bids, both were ranked in top 20 at season end, and went 0-2 in blowouts

#15 Beth Cookj at 10-1 .. lost to GA Southern by 26 in playin game. GA Southern made it to final 4 and lost.
#17 SC State at 9-2 .. didnt have playin game, lost to UNH by 25 in round of 16; UNH lost following week

In 2011, Norfolk was 9-2 and #19, lost to Old Dominion in playin game by 17; Old Dominion lost following week in round of 16

In 2012, Beth Cook was 9-2 and #25, lost to Coastal Carolina in playin game by 10; CCU got blown out the following week in round of 16

In 2013, 10-2 Beth Cook (#16) and 9-3 SC St (#25) both got bids, and bth lost playin games to Furman by 10 and CCU by 25. Furman got blown out a week later, CCU won next round of 16 game and got blown out in round of 8

In 2014, this one is really good ..... there was 5 way tie for first in MEAC (all 6-2), amazingly a 7-5 Morgan St got bid and lost playin game to Richmond by 22; Richmond got blown out the following week. This at large bid was just off the charts bad .. and the committee talks up their careful vetting process .. 7-5 team from MEAC, with that recent playoff track record .... seriously, who all on that committee voted for Morgan St ??? They weren't anywhere near ranked by anyone, Massey had them #84. Think maybe 7-5 YSU playing in MVFC that year had a better resume than Morgan St .. that side by side comparison of SOS too hard ??? But I digress ....

In 2015.. no bid

In 2016, 9-2 NC AT lost playin game to Richmond by 29; Richmond lost following week to very over-rated UND team, who got smoke their following week by 38.

In 2017 .. no bid

In 2018 .. no bid

So they've gotten 8 bids since 2010 and gone 0-8; the two best games were lost by 10, the rest avergared over 20 points per game.

This is why MEAC is not viewed as competitive as it used to be. This years seem slightly better at top, but there is just no way a 3rd place team from MEAC should be getting a bid. There will be several other more deserving teams than an SC State this year.

[Redbird 4th & short]

they are 0-8 in last 9 years, with most being blowouts.

In 2010, they got 2 bids, both were ranked in top 20 at season end, and went 0-2 in blowouts

#15 Beth Cookj at 10-1 .. lost to GA Southern by 26 in playin game. GA Southern made it to final 4 and lost.
#17 SC State at 9-2 .. didnt have playin game, lost to UNH by 25 in round of 16; UNH lost following week

In 2011, Norfolk was 9-2 and #19, lost to Old Dominion in playin game by 17; Old Dominion lost following week in round of 16

In 2012, Beth Cook was 9-2 and #25, lost to Coastal Carolina in playin game by 10; CCU got blown out the following week in round of 16

In 2013, 10-2 Beth Cook (#16) and 9-3 SC St (#25) both got bids, and bth lost playin games to Furman by 10 and CCU by 25. Furman got blown out a week later, CCU won next round of 16 game and got blown out in round of 8

In 2014, this one is really good ..... there was 5 way tie for first in MEAC (all 6-2), amazingly a 7-5 Morgan St got bid and lost playin game to Richmond by 22; Richmond got blown out the following week. This at large bid was just off the charts bad .. and the committee talks up their careful vetting process .. 7-5 team from MEAC, with that recent playoff track record .... seriously, who all on that committee voted for Morgan St ??? They weren't anywhere near ranked by anyone, Massey had them #84. Think maybe 7-5 YSU playing in MVFC that year had a better resume than Morgan St .. that side by side comparison of SOS too hard ??? But I digress ....

In 2015.. no bid

In 2016, 9-2 NC AT lost playin game to Richmond by 29; Richmond lost following week to very over-rated UND team, who got smoke their following week by 38.

In 2017 .. no bid

In 2018 .. no bid

So they've gotten 8 bids since 2010 and gone 0-8; the two best games were lost by 10, the rest avergared over 20 points per game.

This is why MEAC is not viewed as competitive as it used to be. This years seem slightly better at top, but there is just no way a 3rd place team from MEAC should be getting a bid. There will be several other more deserving teams than an SC State this year.

regarding the 2014 Morgan St (7-5) bid ... the following year, ISUr played Morgan St (5-6) in OOC game .. we won 67-14. Granted different year, and they lost some key players, but so did we (put 3 in NFL, lost many others to graduation on offense; 4 OL, 2 WR, TE) .. just like us, they only slipped 1 game in loss column ... from 7-5 to 5-6.

[Klandbulldog]

SC State has never played UNH....

[R.A.]

they are 0-8 in last 9 years, with most being blowouts.

In 2010, they got 2 bids, both were ranked in top 20 at season end, and went 0-2 in blowouts

#15 Beth Cookj at 10-1 .. lost to GA Southern by 26 in playin game. GA Southern made it to final 4 and lost.
#17 SC State at 9-2 .. didnt have playin game, lost to UNH by 25 in round of 16; UNH lost following week

New Hampshire played Bethune Cookman, SC State played Georgia Southern. You're facts are reversed.



In 2011, Norfolk was 9-2 and #19, lost to Old Dominion in playin game by 17; Old Dominion lost following week in round of 16

In 2012, Beth Cook was 9-2 and #25, lost to Coastal Carolina in playin game by 10; CCU got blown out the following week in round of 16

In 2013, 10-2 Beth Cook (#16) and 9-3 SC St (#25) both got bids, and bth lost playin games to Furman by 10 and CCU by 25. Furman got blown out a week later, CCU won next round of 16 game and got blown out in round of 8

In 2014, this one is really good ..... there was 5 way tie for first in MEAC (all 6-2), amazingly a 7-5 Morgan St got bid and lost playin game to Richmond by 22; Richmond got blown out the following week. This at large bid was just off the charts bad .. and the committee talks up their careful vetting process .. 7-5 team from MEAC, with that recent playoff track record .... seriously, who all on that committee voted for Morgan St ??? They weren't anywhere near ranked by anyone, Massey had them #84. Think maybe 7-5 YSU playing in MVFC that year had a better resume than Morgan St .. that side by side comparison of SOS too hard ??? But I digress ....

The MEAC chose it's automatic bid in 2014. Since it was a five way tie for conference co-champs, I believe Morgan State was chosen by coin flips by our Conference Commish. It was agreed that Morgan State wasn't even the strongest team in our conference in 2014. in 2014, the top five MEAC teams were as follows


#23 Bethune-Cookman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Bethune-Cookman_Wildcats_football_team) +

6
–
2




9
–
3



North Carolina A&T (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_North_Carolina_A%26T_Aggies_football_team) +

6
–
2




9
–
3



South Carolina State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_South_Carolina_State_Bulldogs_football_team) +

6
–
2




8
–
4



North Carolina Central (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_North_Carolina_Central_Eagles_football_team) +

6
–
2




7
–
5



Morgan State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Morgan_State_Bears_football_team) +^

6
–
2




7
–
6




So harping on blowing out our 2014 Automatic Bid, who none of us wanted in the field, is an interesting string to pluck.



In 2015.. no bid

In 2016, 9-2 NC AT lost playing game to Richmond by 29; Richmond lost following week to very over-rated UND team, who got smoke their following week by 38.

In 2017 .. no bid

In 2018 .. no bid

So they've gotten 8 bids since 2010 and gone 0-8; the two best games were lost by 10, the rest avergared over 20 points per game.

This is why MEAC is not viewed as competitive as it used to be. This years seem slightly better at top, but there is just no way a 3rd place team from MEAC should be getting a bid. There will be several other more deserving teams than an SC State this year.

SC State thus far is earning the right to play in the FCS Playoffs in 2019. If the MEAC's overall schedule is a problem, SC State went outside of the MEAC and secured a strong victory to compensate. Right now, we're looking at a MEAC with two ranked Top 25 teams, and the team primarily in playoff consideration-- the third place team, is the team with the conference's biggest victory. So it appears that the MEAC has improved as you mentioned;

This years seem slightly better at top
So, if the third place MEAC team in a slightly better MEAC qualifies for the FCS Playoffs, then they deserve a chance to demonstrate just how much better the MEAC is.

[R.A.]

regarding the 2014 Morgan St (7-5) bid ... the following year, ISUr played Morgan St (5-6) in OOC game .. we won 67-14. Granted different year, and they lost some key players, but so did we (put 3 in NFL, lost many others to graduation on offense; 4 OL, 2 WR, TE) .. just like us, they only slipped 1 game in loss column ... from 7-5 to 5-6.

SC State's former Middle Linebacker, won NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year last season, Darius Leonard... the point is that South Carolina State and Morgan State are two vastly different programs at this stage in their histories.

-We're not talking about 2014, we're talking about 2019.
-And we're talking about a traditionally strong SC State program that historically HAS I-AA playoff victories, and had played competitively in the FCS Playoffs, even though the lost.

SC State and Morgan State are two different programs, and I'm sure the selection committee and posters on this board KNOW the difference.

[ejjones]

RA thanks for clearing up the facts...

[ejjones]

regarding the 2014 Morgan St (7-5) bid ... the following year, ISUr played Morgan St (5-6) in OOC game .. we won 67-14. Granted different year, and they lost some key players, but so did we (put 3 in NFL, lost many others to graduation on offense; 4 OL, 2 WR, TE) .. just like us, they only slipped 1 game in loss column ... from 7-5 to 5-6.
Tell me more about those NFLers. Are they still on 53-man rosters today?

[R.A.]

RA thanks for clearing up the facts...

I just dislike the argument, that the MEAC is weak and we haven't won a playoff game for a long time, so let's keep them out.

It's biased.

If our teams have done what's necessary to gain a bid, and thus far SC State has, then give them the bid; or will the argument be since the MEAC hasn't won, the NCAA should stop giving us the chance to win??

[Redbird 4th & short]

RA thanks for clearing up the facts...
aside from getting the 2010 MEAC playoff opponents reversed, what other facts needed clearing up exactly ??

The point about 2014 Morgan St was as simple as I made it .. they were 6-2 and your chosen representative for playoffs, however it got decided. But here are the head to head records of those 5 teams vs the other 4:

NC AT was 1-2, didn't play Beth Cook
SC St was 2-2
Beth Cook was 1-1 .. didn't have to play 2 of the other 4
Morgan st was 2-1
NC Central was 2-2

So in fact, Morgan St would have won a tie breaker based on head to head, if that woould have been in place. Furthermore, the two teams that went 2-2 both lost to Morgan St that year. Only NC AT beat Morgan St, and they were 1-2.

Sorry guys .. there just isnt a case for a 3rd place team from MEAC .. recent past performance has to count for something. If not, they would keep sending 5 or 6 Colonial teams every year.

[R.A.]

aside from getting the 2010 MEAC playoff opponents reversed, what other facts needed clearing up exactly ??

The point about 2014 Morgan St was as simple as I made it .. they were 6-2 and your chosen representative for playoffs, however it got decided. But here are the head to head records of those 5 teams vs the other 4:

NC AT was 1-2, didn't play Beth Cook
SC St was 2-2
Beth Cook was 1-1 .. didn't have to play 2 of the other 4
Morgan st was 2-1
NC Central was 2-2

So in fact, Morgan St would have won a tie breaker based on head to head, if that woould have been in place. Furthermore, the two teams that went 2-2 both lost to Morgan St that year. Only NC AT beat Morgan St, and they were 1-2.

Sorry guys .. there just isnt a case for a 3rd place team from MEAC .. recent past performance has to count for something. If not, they would keep sending 5 or 6 Colonial teams every year.

There IS a case.

List the other potential playoff candidates...
1.)...currently with/or with the ability to win seven FCS victories...
2.)...who have ALSO defeated an out of conference 2019 conference champion (from a conference ranked higher than their own)
3.)... and the before mentioned conference champion is also a 2019 Automatic Bid recipient.
4.)...And also list potential playoff candidates who have faced THREE currently ranked FCS opponents, achieving a victory in at least one of the contests.

Redbird, you're about to compile a pretty small list. But I know one school on that list, SC State.

SC State is Uniquely qualified to make the field of 24 in 2019.

We're sitting here with NC A&T, Wofford, and FAMU all STILL RANKED, SC State either beat the team or lost closely to them; and we're still questioning SC State's playoff credentials?

How SWAY?

SC State 2019 7-3 (6-2 FCS) One opponent left, @ Norfolk State
W vs Current #20 Wofford, 28-13 (SoCon Champion)
L vs Current #16 Florida A&M, 38-42
L vs Current #25 NC A&T, 20-22

[Redbird 4th & short]

I just dislike the argument, that the MEAC is weak and we haven't won a playoff game for a long time, so let's keep them out.

It's biased.

If our teams have done what's necessary to gain a bid, and thus far SC State has, then give them the bid; or will the argument be since the MEAC hasn't won, the NCAA should stop giving us the chance to win??
Going into yesterday, SC State was 5-3 playing a weak SOS .. so no, they have not done what is necessary. That can certainly be debated, but you state that like it is not even debatable.

Yesterday you beat Norfolk St 24-0 .. solid win, but they are 3-7, whose 3 wins are over teams with a combined 3 D-I wins this year. We have similar issue with some weak wins, except we've also got wins over SDSU and SIU, not to mention we play in MVFC and clearly play a much tougher SOS. The Wofford win in week 1 is a nice win, but one game does not make a resume, or Samford would have same argument as SC State.

[ejjones]

aside from getting the 2010 MEAC playoff opponents reversed, what other facts needed clearing up exactly ??

The point about 2014 Morgan St was as simple as I made it .. they were 6-2 and your chosen representative for playoffs, however it got decided. But here are the head to head records of those 5 teams vs the other 4:

NC AT was 1-2, didn't play Beth Cook
SC St was 2-2
Beth Cook was 1-1 .. didn't have to play 2 of the other 4
Morgan st was 2-1
NC Central was 2-2

So in fact, Morgan St would have won a tie breaker based on head to head, if that woould have been in place. Furthermore, the two teams that went 2-2 both lost to Morgan St that year. Only NC AT beat Morgan St, and they were 1-2.

Sorry guys .. there just isnt a case for a 3rd place team from MEAC .. recent past performance has to count for something. If not, they would keep sending 5 or 6 Colonial teams every year.
1. You’re talking about 2014 and it’s 2019. The bid was an auto-bid and NOT at-large as you alluded to.

2. If SC State wins next week we will have a share of the conf championship, and 6pts away from being undefeated in FCS. Not bad for a team projected to finish 6th in the conference.

[R.A.]

Going into yesterday, SC State was 5-3 playing a weak SOS .. so no, they have not done what is necessary. That can certainly be debated, but you state that like it is not even debatable.

SC State 2019 7-3 (6-2 FCS) One opponent left, @ Norfolk State
W vs Current #21 Wofford, 28-13 (SoCon Champion/ Post Season)
L vs Current #16 Florida A&M, 38-42 (9-1 MEAC Leader *Ineligible for Post Season)
L vs Current #25 NC A&T, 20-22 (Predicted MEAC Champ/ Predicted Post Season)

By the way, going into yesterday, SC State was 5-2. FBS losses don't hurt against your record, FBS wins help though.
So, after yesterday, SC State turned into a 6-2 FCS team, with Norfolk State up next.

[R.A.]

Going into yesterday, SC State was 5-3 playing a weak SOS .. so no, they have not done what is necessary. That can certainly be debated, but you state that like it is not even debatable.

Yesterday you beat Norfolk St 24-0 .. solid win, but they are 3-7, whose 3 wins are over teams with a combined 3 D-I wins this year. We have similar issue with some weak wins, except we've also got wins over SDSU and SIU, not to mention we play in MVFC and clearly play a much tougher SOS. The Wofford win in week 1 is a nice win, but one game does not make a resume, or Samford would have same argument as SC State.

Your facts continue to be wrong.
-South Carolina State faced North Carolina Central yesterday. SC State faces Norfolk State next Saturday.
-Also, Samford is 5-6, they don't even qualify for the FCS playoffs because they have the inability to gain 7 FCS wins. In addition to that, Samford has multiple horrible FCS losses on their résumé . SC State has Zero bad FCS losses on their résumé. As we already indicated, SC State's two FCS losses came to ranked FCS teams.
-Finally, SC State even defeated Wofford by more than Samford did; 28-13 versus 21-14.
--------------------------------------------------

If SC State fumbles next Saturday, then compare them to other teams that have fumbled. BUT, until that happens and assuming that they won't and will reach 7 FCS wins, compare SC State with the other potential playoff teams with similar résumés.

[R.A.]

This last regular season contest for SC State is no pushover.

Norfolk State has won their past three games, and SC State usually has problems on the road late in the season in the MEAC especially in cold, windy, or rainy weather.

(Oddly enough, the Bulldogs do well in the snow and sleet late season)


Last game at NC Central was a cold game, the Bulldogs did well, winning 24-0.

But can they do it in back to back weeks, versus a Spartans team that's stronger than NC Central, and would love to upset SC State's post- season plans?

Coach Pough's team, can't get caught looking ahead, AND their defense has to play lights out. Norfolk State is a team that actually knows how to pass the ball.

[MacThor]

In 2014, this one is really good ..... there was 5 way tie for first in MEAC (all 6-2), amazingly a 7-5 Morgan St got bid and lost playin game to Richmond by 22; Richmond got blown out the following week. This at large bid was just off the charts bad .. and the committee talks up their careful vetting process .. 7-5 team from MEAC, with that recent playoff track record .... seriously, who all on that committee voted for Morgan St ??? They weren't anywhere near ranked by anyone, Massey had them #84. Think maybe 7-5 YSU playing in MVFC that year had a better resume than Morgan St .. that side by side comparison of SOS too hard ??? But I digress ....

In 2016, 9-2 NC AT lost playin game to Richmond by 29; Richmond lost following week to very over-rated UND team, who got smoke their following week by 38.

2014 - Morgan State was the AQ, not an at-large.
2016 - Richmond didn't lose to UND.

[Reign of Terrier]

Again, the MEAC constantly being sent to the Socon historically needs to be factored in when their playoff record is discussed. You may not think the socon is that great now, but it was when the MEAC regularly got a bid.

[WCgoterriers]

FYI: Furman 15th, Wofford 17th in this week's coach's poll.

[Mocs123]

Again, the MEAC constantly being sent to the Socon historically needs to be factored in when their playoff record is discussed. You may not think the socon is that great now, but it was when the MEAC regularly got a bid.

True, the SoCon was considered the best conference in FCS for some time. (not that Chattanooga had anything to do with that - we were a doormat at the time)

[Reign of Terrier]

Yeah, just glancing at the history without recording the raw numbers, 75%+ of the MEAC's playoff games were against the CAA and Southern conference, back when said conferences dominated the subdivision.

[MacThor]

That's true, but the MEAC has been given the benefit of the doubt in the polls and by the committee more often than not, and they are still 0-(a big number). Tough draw or not, at some point you have to win to justify it.

[Redbird 4th & short]

1. You’re talking about 2014 and it’s 2019. The bid was an auto-bid and NOT at-large as you alluded to.

2. If SC State wins next week we will have a share of the conf championship, and 6pts away from being undefeated in FCS. Not bad for a team projected to finish 6th in the conference.
My point is same .. they were conf co-champs who had best tie breaker record of the 5 .. and they lost easily to a team that got smoked a week later.

[Reign of Terrier]

That's true, but the MEAC has been given the benefit of the doubt in the polls and by the committee more often than not, and they are still 0-(a big number). Tough draw or not, at some point you have to win to justify it.

I agree....and SC State beat Wofford. :D

And NC A&T beat Jacksonville State last year.

These are decent wins and alter my perception of the conference a little bit.

[MacThor]

I agree....and SC State beat Wofford. :D

And NC A&T beat Jacksonville State last year.

These are decent wins and alter my perception of the conference a little bit.

Very good. Mine too. They deserve credit for stepping up OOC and winning. I was referring to the playoffs. Their last two forays into the postseason did not go well, losing twice in the play-in round to Richmond teams that were not title contenders. (Our 2016 team was very good but Lauletta got hurt and Rocco was already interviewing with Delaware)

[R.A.]

That's true, but the MEAC has been given the benefit of the doubt in the polls and by the committee more often than not, and they are still 0-(a big number). Tough draw or not, at some point you have to win to justify it.

That's true.

-We've won more difficult regular season out of conference games, than in the past.
-We've won FBS games.

But in order to 'justify it' as you have said, we need to make it into the playoffs and win. But with soooooo many people from the outside who don't want the MEAC in the playoffs, and people from within the MEAC who obviously want us to forget all about the FCS Playoffs (Celebration Bowl), it's almost impossible for even a qualified MEAC School to make the playoffs nowadays.

It's a simple logical fact that in order to win a playoffs game, you have to be in the playoffs.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm strongly informed (and I may have already said this before in this thread) by how the OVC has stepped up their game. They obviously aren't the best conference yet, but they had a similar playoff losing streak from ~1994-2012. Then, suddenly, in 2013 Jacksonville state won a couple playoff games.

Since then, over the next 5 years or so, 4 teams won a playoff game. Another could be added to this list with Austin Peay this year.

I'm a big fan of using history to forecast the future, but there is something of an expiration date for that mindset. 2017 and 2018 are more relevant than 2016, but 2015 and before is pretty irrelevant for me because everyone has different players now.

[Reign of Terrier]

That's true.

-We've won more difficult regular season out of conference games, than in the past.
-We've won FBS games.

But in order to 'justify it' as you have said, we need to make it into the playoffs and win. But with soooooo many people from the outside who don't want the MEAC in the playoffs, and people from within the MEAC who obviously want us to forget all about the FCS Playoffs (Celebration Bowl), it's almost impossible for even a qualified MEAC School to make the playoffs nowadays.

It's a simple logical fact that in order to win a playoffs game, you have to be in the playoffs.

This is my big thing in general whenever we argue about playoff positioning/giving bids, etc. Yes, credit to the valley and a lot of conferences/programs for getting the wins. But there's always teams on the bubble left out who could probably have done just as well as some of those other bubble teams that got in. The current FCS bracket doesn't really distinguish between quality wins in the playoffs outside of the top 8 seeds, so our perception is anchored by just having wins.

[MacThor]

Since the field expanded to 24, only 4 unseeded teams (from 3 schools) have advanced to the final four. None of those four were a "bubble" team. So all the debate over the last few in/first few out makes for good banter but doesn't amount to much in the final equation.

That being said, even though I'm a "CAA guy" I'd like to see more diversity in the playoffs. (No, I'm not referring to that kind of diversity) Meaning, I'd rather see a broader representation of conferences and teams with good records over deeper concentration from the same power conferences. (Assuming similar ratings) Let the first round be one of opportunity.

[Professor]

That's true.

-We've won more difficult regular season out of conference games, than in the past.
-We've won FBS games.

But in order to 'justify it' as you have said, we need to make it into the playoffs and win. But with soooooo many people from the outside who don't want the MEAC in the playoffs, and people from within the MEAC who obviously want us to forget all about the FCS Playoffs (Celebration Bowl), it's almost impossible for even a qualified MEAC School to make the playoffs nowadays.

It's a simple logical fact that in order to win a playoffs game, you have to be in the playoffs.


Exactly. And the sad part is , the goal posts are constantly moved to justify us being excluded

[Professor]

Very good. Mine too. They deserve credit for stepping up OOC and winning. I was referring to the playoffs. Their last two forays into the postseason did not go well, losing twice in the play-in round to Richmond teams that were not title contenders. (Our 2016 team was very good but Lauletta got hurt and Rocco was already interviewing with Delaware)

And if my memory serves me correctly, Richmond pulled Kevin Johnson Redshirt so he could play in the playoffs due to Richmond QB problems. Is what it is , but you act like Richmond wasn't scared

[MacThor]

And if my memory serves me correctly, Richmond pulled Kevin Johnson Redshirt so he could play in the playoffs due to Richmond QB problems. Is what it is , but you act like Richmond wasn't scared

That's not the point I was trying to make, but OK. I was just saying the last two MEAC reps weren't exactly being pitted against App State like they were last decade. If you read the whole thread, you'll see I'm on the record for MEAC inclusion in the field, all things being equal.

Burning KJ's redshirt didn't exactly make us a juggernaut, either. And it certainly didn't mean we were "scared." We had no other options but a walk-on or burning Mancuso's redshirt. So, whichever one we burned, the other one would be QB2 in 2017. We knew the following season he could get it right back. He did, and his career trajectory has been all downhill from that playoff. He is languishing as a backup on a terrible WIU team.

[Reign of Terrier]

Since the field expanded to 24, only 4 unseeded teams (from 3 schools) have advanced to the final four. None of those four were a "bubble" team. So all the debate over the last few in/first few out makes for good banter but doesn't amount to much in the final equation.

That being said, even though I'm a "CAA guy" I'd like to see more diversity in the playoffs. (No, I'm not referring to that kind of diversity) Meaning, I'd rather see a broader representation of conferences and teams with good records over deeper concentration from the same power conferences. (Assuming similar ratings) Let the first round be one of opportunity.

We agree a lot. I think there are two ways to fix this problem, one is more expensive than the other:

1) Cap at large teams per conference to 3 (cheap option)

or

2) Seed the entire field so we can evaluate the quality of each playoff win year-to-year. We all know seed wins are great, but fringe bubble teams year-to-year differ.

My soapbox for this stuff is that power conferences benefit from our inability to consider counterfactual. Every team and conference gets credit for their wins, but the fact that some bubble teams are in and some aren't is inherently subjective and having the scales tip a little bit can have the entire subdivision seemingly hijacked when it comes to bids and seeding.

[Anthony215]

If SC State wins Saturday convincingly I believe the committee will make them the last team in and they'll get a chance to prove they're playoff worthy. Now if they get bombed in the first round I think in the future MEAC teams who miss out on the Celebration Bowl will get passed over for other conferences when their resumes are similar and close.

[ejjones]

If SC State wins Saturday convincingly I believe the committee will make them the last team in and they'll get a chance to prove they're playoff worthy. Now if they get bombed in the first round I think in the future MEAC teams who miss out on the Celebration Bowl will get passed over for other conferences when their resumes are similar and close.
When preparation meets opportunity....The Dogs did not do anything not to warrant attention. Let the Dogs eat...you won't be disappointed.

[Reign of Terrier]

Something I thought about today:

Do you think Kennesaw goes 8-3 with SC State's schedule? I'm not so sure.

Do you think SC State goes 10-2 with Kennesaw's schedule? I think so.

[Catbooster]

We agree a lot. I think there are two ways to fix this problem, one is more expensive than the other:

1) Cap at large teams per conference to 3 (cheap option)

or

2) Seed the entire field so we can evaluate the quality of each playoff win year-to-year. We all know seed wins are great, but fringe bubble teams year-to-year differ.

My soapbox for this stuff is that power conferences benefit from our inability to consider counterfactual. Every team and conference gets credit for their wins, but the fact that some bubble teams are in and some aren't is inherently subjective and having the scales tip a little bit can have the entire subdivision seemingly hijacked when it comes to bids and seeding.
I agree with MacThor too.

But I don't think your second point really addresses the issue of teams from conferences perceived as weaker having a disadvantage to being selected . Seeding the entire field would be great but it doesn't affect the selection of teams, just the match-ups of the teams selected.

Rather than a hard cap, like your first proposal, I think some kind of percentage makes more sense - maybe something like finishing in the top third of the conference. Then a conference that has 12 members isn't limited to the same number as a conference with only 8 members. I also think this would have to be a guideline that doesn't dictate absolutely but pushes the committee toward more representation - similar to the 6 win criteria, which IIRC is not given as an absolute rule but as a guideline, saying something like they are subject to greater scrutiny.

To use the CAA last year as an example, I think it's silly that half the conference - every team with a winning conference schedule - was in the playoffs. They had multiple chances during the season to make their claim and they squandered most of them. Yes, by looking at rankings, SOS ratings, etc. we may say that a team that gets in under those criteria is not as good as one that gets left out, but we are guessing. Let them prove it on the field.

[ejjones]

Something I thought about today:

Do you think Kennesaw goes 8-3 with SC State's schedule? I'm not so sure.

Do you think SC State goes 10-2 with Kennesaw's schedule? I think so.

Kent State is only Loss I see on that schedule...

[Professor]

That's not the point I was trying to make, but OK. I was just saying the last two MEAC reps weren't exactly being pitted against App State like they were last decade. If you read the whole thread, you'll see I'm on the record for MEAC inclusion in the field, all things being equal.

Burning KJ's redshirt didn't exactly make us a juggernaut, either. And it certainly didn't mean we were "scared." We had no other options but a walk-on or burning Mancuso's redshirt. So, whichever one we burned, the other one would be QB2 in 2017. We knew the following season he could get it right back. He did, and his career trajectory has been all downhill from that playoff. He is languishing as a backup on a terrible WIU team.


We will agree to disagree then. But he was a 3 star recruit and after the playoff run he sat back on redshirt in 2017. We were on our 3rd and 4th string as well

[Reign of Terrier]

I agree with MacThor too.

But I don't think your second point really addresses the issue of teams from conferences perceived as weaker having a disadvantage to being selected . Seeding the entire field would be great but it doesn't affect the selection of teams, just the match-ups of the teams selected.

Rather than a hard cap, like your first proposal, I think some kind of percentage makes more sense - maybe something like finishing in the top third of the conference. Then a conference that has 12 members isn't limited to the same number as a conference with only 8 members. I also think this would have to be a guideline that doesn't dictate absolutely but pushes the committee toward more representation - similar to the 6 win criteria, which IIRC is not given as an absolute rule but as a guideline, saying something like they are subject to greater scrutiny.

To use the CAA last year as an example, I think it's silly that half the conference - every team with a winning conference schedule - was in the playoffs. They had multiple chances during the season to make their claim and they squandered most of them. Yes, by looking at rankings, SOS ratings, etc. we may say that a team that gets in under those criteria is not as good as one that gets left out, but we are guessing. Let them prove it on the field.

I think that's a good way of looking at it too wrt the proportional cap. Now that I think of it, I think the socon is the only conference that got more than 3 in while also having less than 10 teams (correct me if I'm wrong) and Samford didn't deserve to get in that year with a late loss to ETSU (who wasn't fully scholarshipped) and had only 6 D1 wins. But it would have been hard to keep 4 socon teams out at 8-3 or better that year.

The difference between having 9-ish teams in your conference compared to 10+ is that the former plays your entire conference, but the latter can luck out with scheduling to where they don't play the tougher teams. Really, the problem is that the conferences are too big, but the bigger conferences to an extent can game the system and get multiple teams in. I think the FCS would be better off if we just broke up these conferences somehow, but it ain't happening. Alternatively, if the Socon or OVC grew to 10-12 teams it would neutralize the problem and inflate the field for the same reason.

As for seeding each team: look at it this way, the biggest ethos of the MVFC, for example is their playoff wins. Can't take away from them. They have them. But when evaluating the middle tier in the playoffs, we need to quantify that success better. I'm more impressed that Youngstown State beat EWU on the road than I am Western illinois beat Dayton, but there's no objective, NCAA-sanctioned measurement of that difference like seeding

[WestCoastAggie]

Something I thought about today:

Do you think Kennesaw goes 8-3 with SC State's schedule? I'm not so sure.

Do you think SC State goes 10-2 with Kennesaw's schedule? I think so.

If Fields is the starting QB for SC State, yes.

[MacThor]

I'm not sure there is a problem that needs be "fixed." If the committee follows its bylaws and guidelines, W/L record is the #1 criteria. It should work itself out. "Team #25" is always going to be disappointed, and I haven't detected a pattern that indicates a bias.
I would not favor a hard cap on the number of teams from a conference.
I think they actually do a pretty good job - regionalization sucks, but that's not their fault.

CAA was an anomaly last year - the hurricane cancellation put them in a tough spot.

[MacThor]

We will agree to disagree then. But he was a 3 star recruit and after the playoff run he sat back on redshirt in 2017. We were on our 3rd and 4th string as well

That's what I just said - he was back on redshirt in 2017. The "burning" wasn't a big sacrifice.
So starting a recruited QB instead of a walk-on for the playoffs indicates we were scared of A&T. Got it.

[Professor]

Glad lol

[Redbird 4th & short]

I'm not sure there is a problem that needs be "fixed." If the committee follows its bylaws and guidelines, W/L record is the #1 criteria. It should work itself out. "Team #25" is always going to be disappointed, and I haven't detected a pattern that indicates a bias.
I would not favor a hard cap on the number of teams from a conference.
I think they actually do a pretty good job - regionalization sucks, but that's not their fault.

CAA was an anomaly last year - the hurricane cancellation put them in a tough spot.
I believe SOS is right behind W-L record as the 2nd criteria.

[R.A.]

Last week of the regular season,
SC State 7
Norfolk St. 0
First Quarter

[R.A.]

#24 North Carolina A&T's doing their part also...

NC A&T 23
NC Central 0
Second Quarter.

If NC A&T wins, they earn the MEAC Championship and a Bid to the Celebration Bowl.

[R.A.]

#24 North Carolina A&T (8-3, 6-2 MEAC) & South Carolina State (8-3, 6-2 MEAC) BOTH won today.

A&T 54
Central 0
Final

State 20
Norfolk St. 17
Final/ Overtime


NC A&T and SC State are the 2019 MEAC Football Co-Champions!

-North Carolina A&T has earned the MEAC's 2019 Celebration Bowl bid.

-South Carolina State awaits Sunday's FCS Playoffs Selection Show, anticipating they will receive an At- Large Bid into the 2019 FCS Playoffs.

[GoBlueHens83]

#24 North Carolina A&T (8-3, 6-2 MEAC) & South Carolina State (8-3, 6-2 MEAC) BOTH won today.

A&T 54
Central 0
Final

State 20
Norfolk St. 17
Final/ Overtime


NC A&T and SC State are the 2019 MEAC Football Co-Champions!

-North Carolina A&T has earned the MEAC's 2019 Celebration Bowl bid.

-South Carolina State awaits Sunday's FCS Playoffs Selection Show, anticipating they will receive an At- Large Bid into the 2019 FCS Playoffs.


I think SC State has a shot at an at-large depending on how some games play out tonight.

Good luck to them, I hope they make the field.

[Reign of Terrier]

Towson losing opens things up for SC State IMO. Bethune Cookman possibly beating FAMU would as well because it would give the Bulldogs another quality win against a 7-4 team

[ejjones]

Towson losing opens things up for SC State IMO. Bethune Cookman possibly beating FAMU would as well because it would give the Bulldogs another quality win against a 7-4 team
FL classic going down to the wire in front of 55K. FAMU has come back in a lot of games all season...

I hope BCU don't need a FG; he got hurt during the week and their using a WR to kick. (don't ask me what the kicker was doing to get hurt)...

[R.A.]

FL classic going down to the wire in front of 55K. FAMU has come back in a lot of games all season...

I hope BCU don't need a FG; he got hurt during the week and their using a WR to kick. (don't ask me what the kicker was doing to get hurt)...

Bethune beat FAMU 31-27.

ejjones, your SC State Bulldogs are looking even better with their win over Bethune- Cookman. Bethune has 7 FCS wins, and just knocked off #12 FAMU (9-2, 7-1 MEAC).

7 FCS wins, wins over Wofford and Bethune, no bad losses... SC State is starting to look less like a bubble, and more like a solid.

[ejjones]

Bethune beat FAMU 31-27.

ejjones, your SC State Bulldogs are looking even better with their win over Bethune- Cookman. Bethune has 7 FCS wins, and just knocked off #12 FAMU (9-2, 7-1 MEAC).

7 FCS wins, wins over Wofford and Bethune, no bad losses... SC State is starting to look less like a bubble, and more like a solid.
R.A. It's going to be tough...but there is no way you can down right discount our resume. I'll put it up against any bubble team.

[R.A.]

Schools can schedule NAIA Teams and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can schedule TWO NAIA Teams and get into the Playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can lose to your school and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can back out of games with you after they've made the commitment, and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.

What's the lesson, The Game is RIGGED.

[UNHWildcat18]

R.A. It's going to be tough...but there is no way you can down right discount our resume. I'll put it up against any bubble team.

hate to say it but the committee probably hates the MEAC/SWAC. Teams play to make the playoffs, your team plays to make a bowl game. Committee probably sees that as a slight. I would have been fine if you got in over KSU or UND or SELA or

[Professor]

Schools can schedule NAIA Teams and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can schedule TWO NAIA Teams and get into the Playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can lose to your school and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.
Schools can back out of games with you after they've made the commitment, and get into the playoffs over a qualified MEAC.

What's the lesson, The Game is RIGGED.

That's pretty much what the committee has said. And sadly it was even when we sent our conference champ to the playoffs. This furthermore validates why the Celebration Bowl was created and i hope our conference can secure a game where our 2nd place MEAC team plays the Ivy League champ.

[WrenFGun]

Kennesaw over SIU is a travesty. Travesty. Committee otherwise did quite well I thought.

[ejjones]

The chair said they looked at record against the field...I wish someone would have had a follow up. Because how do you explain Kennessaw/Furman.

[R.A.]

The chair said they looked at record against the field...I wish someone would have had a follow up. Because how do you explain Kennessaw/Furman.

"Looked at their record against the field(?)"

SC STATE WAS 1-0 VERSUS WOFFORD...

[caribbeanhen]

hate to say it but the committee probably hates the MEAC/SWAC. Teams play to make the playoffs, your team plays to make a bowl game. Committee probably sees that as a slight. I would have been fine if you got in over KSU or UND or SELA or

KSU Yes

UND Maybe

SELA hell no

[caribbeanhen]

That's pretty much what the committee has said. And sadly it was even when we sent our conference champ to the playoffs. This furthermore validates why the Celebration Bowl was created and i hope our conference can secure a game where our 2nd place MEAC team plays the Ivy League champ.

is this hopes and dreams?

[GoBlueHens83]

I saw this coming honestly. I knew that the committee would not leave a 10-2 Kennesaw St out of the playoffs. SC State had a better resume with the Wofford win, KSU had 0 quality wins.

SC State got robbed.

[Professor]

is this hopes and dreams?

Could be but the Celebration Bowl was a dream too at one point

[SmashMouthTerrierOption]

The committee doesn't think very highly of Wofford either apparently. I agree SC State deserves to be in.

[R.A.]

I saw this coming honestly. I knew that the committee would not leave a 10-2 Kennesaw St out of the playoffs. SC State had a better resume with the Wofford win, KSU had 0 quality wins.

SC State got robbed.

Two of Kennesaw's wins were versus NAIA Teams... below DII, not one but TWO BELOW D II TEAMS...

The Committee is Spiteful toward the MEAC.
The Game is rigged.

[ejjones]

Two of Kennesaw's wins were versus NAIA Teams... below DII, not one but TWO BELOW D II TEAMS...

The Committee is Spiteful toward the MEAC.
The Game is rigged.
A lot of people missed that fact. Even the guys on the show was like "10" win Kennesaw State. I can bet your bottoms that, if that was us, everyone would have known we played two NAIA teams...

[Professor]

Two of Kennesaw's wins were versus NAIA Teams... below DII, not one but TWO BELOW D II TEAMS...

The Committee is Spiteful toward the MEAC.
The Game is rigged.

Let a MEAC school play 2 NAIA schools and be 10-1 and not the conference champ. They not getting in

[PaladinFan]

A lot of people missed that fact. Even the guys on the show was like "10" win Kennesaw State. I can bet your bottoms that, if that was us, everyone would have known we played two NAIA teams...

To be fair, people have hammered Kennesaw for their schedule on here all season.

[TheKingpin28]

To be fair, people have hammered Kennesaw for their schedule on here all season.

Shhh... Let the narrative keep going that we ALL hate MEAC and SWAC teams. I personally love how butthurt they are even though everyone knows KSU should be sitting at home.

[ejjones]

To be fair, people have hammered Kennesaw for their schedule on here all season.

You mean hammered, by voting them #15 in the AGS Poll? We barely got a vote in the AGS. I'm not tracking how folks say, we were neck and neck with Kennesaw but never got close to top 25, but the voters on here have them at 15?

[ejjones]

Shhh... Let the narrative keep going that we ALL hate MEAC and SWAC teams. I personally love how butthurt they are even though everyone knows KSU should be sitting at home.

I'd be curious to know where you voted 2 win NAIA, 10 win Kennesaw State at...

Final ranking at 15 pretty good...doesn't sound like a team that was getting "hammered on here".

[TheKingpin28]

I'd be curious to know where you voted 2 win NAIA, 10 win Kennesaw State at...

Final ranking at 15 pretty good...doesn't sound like a team that was getting "hammered on here".



1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Sac State Hornets
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: Weber State Wildcats
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Central Arkansas Bears
12: Austin Peay Governors
13: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Albany Great Danes
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: Furman Paladins
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: Monmouth Hawks
20: Southern Illinois Salukis
21: Nicholls State Colonels
22: Dartmouth Big Green
23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions



24: Florida A&M Rattlers
25: North Carolina A&T Aggies

I'd like to know where you had your teams ranked? Oh wait...

Btw, you will notice KSU is not in there and neither is SCSU. I thought I had Wofford high at 14.

[Redbird 4th & short]

SC State did not belong in playoffs .. KSU was 8-2 against D-I teams and was beating bad teams by 30 to 40 points per game. SC State was 7-3 against D-I teams and only put away 1 maybe 2 of those weak teams

KSU 6 largest margins: 45, 43, 35, 34, 28, 22 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 35 points per game

SC St 6 largest margins: 41, 24, 15, 14, 14, 8 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 21 points per game

So KSU had a slightly better record (1 game) and much better margins against their weak SOS compared to SC State. SC State had slightly tougher SOS .. but KSU put a lot of teams away, SC State did not.

This is why all the computers resulted in Massey Composite ranking fo SC State of #41 vs KSU at #25 ... including 3 Ivys.

This is also why my ISUr dropped from solid top 8 or 10 to #24 on Massey Composite, and now were viewed as the weakest playoff team. If our QB doesn't go down, we probably win that game against YSU and get a top 8 seed. But our QB went down early in game 11 and then we struggled to beat a weak (2-10) MoST and lost to struggling (6-6) YSU to close out season ... we dropped over 15 slots the last 2 weeks .. and we're 8-4 against a #30 SOS. Some have argued we don't belong in playoffs .. if season were judged based on last 2 weeks only, they would be right.

And MEAC is clearly not the only weak conference that gets criticized like this .. just ask Big South, Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer .. even Southern to some extent this year.

[POD Knows]

SC State did not belong in playoffs .. KSU was 8-2 against D-I teams and was beating bad teams by 30 to 40 points per game. SC State was 7-3 against D-I teams and only put away 1 maybe 2 of those weak teams

KSU 6 largest margins: 45, 43, 35, 34, 28, 22 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 35 points per game

SC St 6 largest margins: 41, 24, 15, 14, 14, 8 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 21 points per game

So KSU had a slightly better record (1 game) and much better margins against their weak SOS compared to SC State. SC State had slightly tougher SOS .. but KSU put a lot of teams away, SC State did not.

This is why all the computers resulted in Massey Composite ranking fo SC State of #41 vs KSU at #25 ... including 3 Ivys.

This is also why my ISUr dropped from solid top 8 or 10 to #24 on Massey Composite, and now were viewed as the weakest playoff team. If our QB doesn't go down, we probably win that game against YSU and get a top 8 seed. But our QB went down early in game 11 and then we struggled to beat a weak (2-10) MoST and lost to struggling (6-6) YSU to close out season ... we dropped over 15 slots the last 2 weeks .. and we're 8-4 against a #30 SOS. Some have argued we don't belong in playoffs .. if season were judged based on last 2 weeks only, they would be right.

And MEAC is clearly not the only weak conference that gets criticized like this .. just ask Big South, Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer .. even Southern to some extent this year.
The MEAC might be better than all of those conferences you referenced. Also, I think Davis should get a vote for FCS MVP (I know it doesn't exist) I have never seen such a below average player have such an affect on a top ranked team. How does that even happen.

[Lion1983]

I saw this coming honestly. I knew that the committee would not leave a 10-2 Kennesaw St out of the playoffs. SC State had a better resume with the Wofford win, KSU had 0 quality wins.

SC State got robbed.

I mean, they did beat Point.... that's gotta be worthy of the playoffs by itself...

[Lion1983]

I agree, Wofford shouldn't have made it. KSU shouldn't have made it either.

[ejjones]

SC State did not belong in playoffs .. KSU was 8-2 against D-I teams and was beating bad teams by 30 to 40 points per game. SC State was 7-3 against D-I teams and only put away 1 maybe 2 of those weak teams

KSU 6 largest margins: 45, 43, 35, 34, 28, 22 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 35 points per game

SC St 6 largest margins: 41, 24, 15, 14, 14, 8 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 21 points per game

So KSU had a slightly better record (1 game) and much better margins against their weak SOS compared to SC State. SC State had slightly tougher SOS .. but KSU put a lot of teams away, SC State did not.

This is why all the computers resulted in Massey Composite ranking fo SC State of #41 vs KSU at #25 ... including 3 Ivys.

This is also why my ISUr dropped from solid top 8 or 10 to #24 on Massey Composite, and now were viewed as the weakest playoff team. If our QB doesn't go down, we probably win that game against YSU and get a top 8 seed. But our QB went down early in game 11 and then we struggled to beat a weak (2-10) MoST and lost to struggling (6-6) YSU to close out season ... we dropped over 15 slots the last 2 weeks .. and we're 8-4 against a #30 SOS. Some have argued we don't belong in playoffs .. if season were judged based on last 2 weeks only, they would be right.

And MEAC is clearly not the only weak conference that gets criticized like this .. just ask Big South, Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer .. even Southern to some extent this year.
So, let me get this right...play in a weak conf, play a weak OOC, play 2 NAIA teams (that the computers don’t count- prob help)...blow all the scrubs out and there you have it...

Remind me who Kennesaw beat? I missed that part. Commish talked about record against the field.

Teams win, then we compare margins of victory. Apparently W doesn’t = W.

[TheKingpin28]

So, let me get this right.szzplay in a weak conf, play a weak OOC, play 2 NAIA teams (that the computers don’t count- prob help)...blow all the scrubs out and there you have it...

Remind me who Kennesaw beat? I missed that part. Commish talked about record against the field.

Teams win, then we compare margins of victory. Apparently W doesn’t = W.

I'm still waiting for your poll where you tell me how you ranked the teams and do not just cry foul.

[ejjones]

I'm still waiting for your poll where you tell me how you ranked the teams and do not just cry foul.
I don't vote; don't have the spare time that it takes to be a good pollster.

[TheKingpin28]

I don't vote; don't have the spare time that it takes to be a good pollster.

So, you have time for criticism but no time for voting?

[Bison56]

I don't vote; don't have the spare time that it takes to be a good pollster.

So what you are saying is you really dont know who deserves what.

[gofurman]

I agree, Wofford shouldn't have made it. KSU shouldn't have made it either.

WOFFORD won the SoCon AUTOBID. the freakin autobid

[ElCid]

WOFFORD won the SoCon AUTOBID. the freakin autobid

I was going to respond, but figured why. He obviously doesn't even know enough for it to matter.

[ejjones]

So what you are saying is you really dont know who deserves what.
If you're going to commit, you need to do it right. I don't have the time to do it right. A lot of others don't either, I can tell.

[ejjones]

So, you have time for criticism but no time for voting?
Yes, you got a problem?

[Anthony215]

While SCSU may feel slighted having beat Wofford head to head, their conference forfeits their automatic bid to play in the Celebration Bowl v the SWAC champion. If particular schools feel as though the playoffs are something they can be successful in competing in I say they should find another conference home. I think this was actually a down year for the MEAC if you consider that FAMU was the actual MEAC champion, A&T finished 2nd and SCSU finished 3rd in the conference but due to FAMU being ineligible for post season play A&T got the Celebration Bowl bid, and SCSU was stuck on the fence about possibly getting an at-large-bid.

[Klandbulldog]

SC State finished tied with A&T.

[Derby City Duke]

And A&T is in the celebration bowl because...they own the tie-breaker over SCSU. A&T is the de facto 2nd place team in the MEAC this season.

I wish Norfolk State had been willing to resume their game against us in 2018 after the weather delays. They were only down to JMU 17-0 at home in Norfolk on the back end of a home-and-home -- at the end of the 1st quarter...

[Anthony215]

SC State finished tied with A&T.

Technically 3rd after tie breakers FAMU beat both SCSU and NC A&T and if not for being banned both A&T and SCSU would have been fighting for that last at large bid and with AT&T having beat SCSU head to head they would have gotten it over you anyways. I'm all for the MEAC playing in the playoffs theoretically the odds of a MEAC team playing in the National semi-finals or championship game are slim so at least let them play the opening round of the playoffs and if they advance their 2nd place team can play the SWAC champion in the Celebration Bowl.

[Professor]

While SCSU may feel slighted having beat Wofford head to head, their conference forfeits their automatic bid to play in the Celebration Bowl v the SWAC champion. If particular schools feel as though the playoffs are something they can be successful in competing in I say they should find another conference home. I think this was actually a down year for the MEAC if you consider that FAMU was the actual MEAC champion, A&T finished 2nd and SCSU finished 3rd in the conference but due to FAMU being ineligible for post season play A&T got the Celebration Bowl bid, and SCSU was stuck on the fence about possibly getting an at-large-bid.

FINALLY someone willing to admit the truth. So because we don't send our champion to the FCS Playoffs , our non obligated teams don't deserve to be included.

Sounds like the argument when A&T beat Jacksonville State...... A&T shouldn't be ranked because they don't participate in playoffs

[Klandbulldog]

Technically 3rd after tie breakers FAMU beat both SCSU and NC A&T and if not for being banned both A&T and SCSU would have been fighting for that last at large bid and with AT&T having beat SCSU head to head they would have gotten it over you anyways. I'm all for the MEAC playing in the playoffs theoretically the odds of a MEAC team playing in the National semi-finals or championship game are slim so at least let them play the opening round of the playoffs and if they advance their 2nd place team can play the SWAC champion in the Celebration Bowl.

We’re saying the same thing..they're both co-champions and the head-to-head tie breaker is the reason A&T is going to the Celebration Bowl.

[Professor]

SC State did not belong in playoffs .. KSU was 8-2 against D-I teams and was beating bad teams by 30 to 40 points per game. SC State was 7-3 against D-I teams and only put away 1 maybe 2 of those weak teams

KSU 6 largest margins: 45, 43, 35, 34, 28, 22 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 35 points per game

SC St 6 largest margins: 41, 24, 15, 14, 14, 8 .. avg margin in those 6 wins was 21 points per game

So KSU had a slightly better record (1 game) and much better margins against their weak SOS compared to SC State. SC State had slightly tougher SOS .. but KSU put a lot of teams away, SC State did not.

This is why all the computers resulted in Massey Composite ranking fo SC State of #41 vs KSU at #25 ... including 3 Ivys.

This is also why my ISUr dropped from solid top 8 or 10 to #24 on Massey Composite, and now were viewed as the weakest playoff team. If our QB doesn't go down, we probably win that game against YSU and get a top 8 seed. But our QB went down early in game 11 and then we struggled to beat a weak (2-10) MoST and lost to struggling (6-6) YSU to close out season ... we dropped over 15 slots the last 2 weeks .. and we're 8-4 against a #30 SOS. Some have argued we don't belong in playoffs .. if season were judged based on last 2 weeks only, they would be right.

And MEAC is clearly not the only weak conference that gets criticized like this .. just ask Big South, Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer .. even Southern to some extent this year.

KSU hasn't beat a team with a winning record all year. But we are going to congratulate them for putting teams away?

[caribbeanhen]

AGS has been rightfully critical of how overrated the lil darlings of Kennesaw State are, it's is a joke

also, AGS treats the Ivy League just like the MEAC..... choose not to participate in the Playoffs and the bias is real....

Why not make the Celebration Bowl a first round playoff game? I probably know the answer but like the idea anyway

I want the Ivy and the MEAC in the playoffs or at least and Ivy vs MEAC or SWAC bowl game....

[TheKingpin28]

Drop the Celebration Bowl and come back to the FCS or quit your whining. You took your ball and left and now want to be invited back in for finishing 3rd?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Professor]

AGS has been rightfully critical of how overrated the lil darlings of Kennesaw State are, it's is a joke

also, AGS treats the Ivy League just like the MEAC..... choose not to participate in the Playoffs and the bias is real....

Why not make the Celebration Bowl a first round playoff game? I probably know the answer but like the idea anyway

I want the Ivy and the MEAC in the playoffs or at least and Ivy vs MEAC or SWAC bowl game....

Celebration Bowl can't and won't be a 1st round game. It kicks off ESPN bowl season

[Reign of Terrier]

I've said multiple times that I think SC State should have gotten in (especially over Kennesaw, it wouldn't have changed the bracket, they would have played Wofford). But I do agree with the reasoning that you can't have your cake and eat it too. The MEAC participates in the celebration bowl. That's who they are right now, and not getting as strong consideration for the playoffs is going to be the consequence IMO.

[Professor]

Drop the Celebration Bowl and come back to the FCS or quit your whining. You took your ball and left and now want to be invited back in for finishing 3rd?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Bwhahaha drop the celebration bowl.... yeah ok. lol. Show me when the FCS playoffs gives a team a 600k plus check?

No we want fairness. SCSU beat Wofford head to head. But the win is discounted because Wofford was running a new offense? How is that SCSU fault lol. Posters on this board scream play a better schedule , but you let a 10 -1 team in who's best win is Alabama State and beat 2 NAIA teams. But we supposed to be quiet about that. Nope.

It's things like this is why the MEAC and SWAC decided to create the bowl game in the 1st place. We aren't getting a fair shake here...... AND IT'S OBVIOUS.

[caribbeanhen]

Bwhahaha drop the celebration bowl.... yeah ok. lol. Show me when the FCS playoffs gives a team a 600k plus check?

No we want fairness. SCSU beat Wofford head to head. But the win is discounted because Wofford was running a new offense? How is that SCSU fault lol. Posters on this board scream play a better schedule , but you let a 10 -1 team in who's best win is Alabama State and beat 2 NAIA teams. But we supposed to be quiet about that. Nope.

It's things like this is why the MEAC and SWAC decided to create the bowl game in the 1st place. We aren't getting a fair shake here...... AND IT'S OBVIOUS.

Professor, you make it sound like a few posters kept you out of the playoffs

I would put ScSt in over Kenny but what about Southern Illinois?

[Reign of Terrier]

Bwhahaha drop the celebration bowl.... yeah ok. lol. Show me when the FCS playoffs gives a team a 600k plus check?

No we want fairness. SCSU beat Wofford head to head. But the win is discounted because Wofford was running a new offense? How is that SCSU fault lol. Posters on this board scream play a better schedule , but you let a 10 -1 team in who's best win is Alabama State and beat 2 NAIA teams. But we supposed to be quiet about that. Nope.

It's things like this is why the MEAC and SWAC decided to create the bowl game in the 1st place. We aren't getting a fair shake here...... AND IT'S OBVIOUS.

No. Before the MEAC left for the celebration bowl, they got two at large teams in the field.

If you're a good enough conference to get OOC wins, your experience in the playoffs will accumulate and you'll get more playoff teams. The Socon had one team in the playoffs in 2014 (less than the MEAC in 2013!). Then 2 for 2015. Then in 2016, the two regular playoff teams both finished 8-3 or better and two more 8-3 teams came about. What happened? 4 bids!

Because the MEAC chooses to not play in the playoffs and usually doesn't win or schedule tough OOC (most of the MEAC's OOC are Big South or other HBCU teams) and subsequently excludes themselves from the playoffs, they also exclude themselves from making the case.

Outside of North Carolina A&T, the SC State win over Wofford is the only notable OOC win by the conference in the last ~5 years, maybe even longer. There's not a cumulative body of work at the FCS level, playoff or otherwise, for the committee to see that game as more than an upset.

I mean, the OVC had a similarly bad OOC and FCS playoff history to where getting an at large or two was crazy. And then they started winning, in the playoffs and elsewhere. But until the MEAC schedules and wins more consistently and chooses to also play in the playoffs, they're not going to get much sympathy from me.

Again, I think SC State deserved it, but not getting in is the risk you run when you participate in the Celebration bowl. The gains of that possibility outside the potential losses. Own it.

[Professor]

Professor, you make it sound like a few posters kept you out of the playoffs

I would put ScSt in over Kenny but what about Southern Illinois?

i think they are better than Kennessaw State but they got killed in scheduling imo. It' s no signature win. No top 15 team win. I've been reading it was a need to play 2 FBS teams for money but it looks like that hurt them. Don't see the push you usually get with a FBS victory.

[Professor]

No. Before the MEAC left for the celebration bowl, they got two at large teams in the field.

If you're a good enough conference to get OOC wins, your experience in the playoffs will accumulate and you'll get more playoff teams. The Socon had one team in the playoffs in 2014 (less than the MEAC in 2013!). Then 2 for 2015. Then in 2016, the two regular playoff teams both finished 8-3 or better and two more 8-3 teams came about. What happened? 4 bids!

Because the MEAC chooses to not play in the playoffs and usually doesn't win or schedule tough OOC (most of the MEAC's OOC are Big South or other HBCU teams) and subsequently excludes themselves from the playoffs, they also exclude themselves from making the case.

Outside of North Carolina A&T, the SC State win over Wofford is the only notable OOC win by the conference in the last ~5 years, maybe even longer. There's not a cumulative body of work at the FCS level, playoff or otherwise, for the committee to see that game as more than an upset.

I mean, the OVC had a similarly bad OOC and FCS playoff history to where getting an at large or two was crazy. And then they started winning, in the playoffs and elsewhere. But until the MEAC schedules and wins more consistently and chooses to also play in the playoffs, they're not going to get much sympathy from me.

Again, I think SC State deserved it, but not getting in is the risk you run when you participate in the Celebration bowl. The gains of that possibility outside the potential losses. Own it.

No one is avoiding owning we send our champ to a bowl game. We do it for the money and exposure. But for the teams who are left , aren't playing on an equal playing field when it comes to at large bids.

You act as if the Big South is beating anyone to earn 2 bids. NOPE. Just benefits of the poll. AND KSU knows this and that's why they are breaking contracts , because they are scared. You really think Wofford gonna play SCSU after this? A&T could get a game with any FCS team in the country before we started winning. Now it's few and far between. You see Elon ain't signing back up. Scheduling is a 2 way street. And coaches aren't trying to place their jobs in jeopardy by playing a decent MEAC or SWAC team. They play the bottom feeders

[MSUBobcat]

Bwhahaha drop the celebration bowl.... yeah ok. lol. Show me when the FCS playoffs gives a team a 600k plus check?

No we want fairness. SCSU beat Wofford head to head. But the win is discounted because Wofford was running a new offense? How is that SCSU fault lol. Posters on this board scream play a better schedule , but you let a 10 -1 team in who's best win is Alabama State and beat 2 NAIA teams. But we supposed to be quiet about that. Nope.

It's things like this is why the MEAC and SWAC decided to create the bowl game in the 1st place. We aren't getting a fair shake here...... AND IT'S OBVIOUS.

Pretty simple. Play money games in the REGULAR season if your school wants $$$ AND playoffs. Sacramento State played ASU for $625k and Fresno State for $350k, totaling $975k. NC A&T played Duke for $375k and gets a "$600k+ check", totaling..... $975k+. Similar paydays, except one has a seed and will participate in the playoffs. If you want to schedule a payday game when the entire rest of the division is proving on the field who the best team in the country is, that's your choice. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

If you're going to play a body bag game, however, given the strength of the MEAC as a whole, your other OOC are going to have to be challenges and you have to WIN them.

[Reign of Terrier]

No one is avoiding owning we send our champ to a bowl game. We do it for the money and exposure. But for the teams who are left , aren't playing on an equal playing field when it comes to at large bids.

You act as if the Big South is beating anyone to earn 2 bids. NOPE. Just benefits of the poll. AND KSU knows this and that's why they are breaking contracts , because they are scared. You really think Wofford gonna play SCSU after this? A&T could get a game with any FCS team in the country before we started winning. Now it's few and far between. You see Elon ain't signing back up. Scheduling is a 2 way street. And coaches aren't trying to place their jobs in jeopardy by playing a decent MEAC or SWAC team. They play the bottom feeders

Kennesaw is in because they have more playoff wins in the last two years than the MEAC has had in the 20th century. Your "breaking contracts" bit is pretty much a conspiracy theory considering they have Samford, Wofford, Furman, and Jacksonville State in the next 4 years. https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/

Wofford has a home and home with SC State and believe me, we will play it and I imagine with State picking up their game we would rather play/beat them every year than Gardner Webb.

A&T's scheduling is so hard (woah is they!) that they have NDSU, Furman, Elon and Charleston Southern on their future schedules. All of those teams made the playoffs in the last 3 years.

So, basically, everything in your post is wrong, which is an accomplishment.

[Professor]

Pretty simple. Play money games in the REGULAR season if your school wants $$$ AND playoffs. Sacramento State played ASU for $625k and Fresno State for $350k, totaling $975k. NC A&T played Duke for $375k and gets a "$600k+ check", totaling..... $975k+. Similar paydays, except one has a seed and will participate in the playoffs. If you want to schedule a payday game when the entire rest of the division is proving on the field who the best team in the country is, that's your choice. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

If you're going to play a body bag game, however, given the strength of the MEAC as a whole, your other OOC are going to have to be challenges and you have to WIN them.


No one wants their cake and eating it too. You guys aren't happy that the flaws in this system are being exposed.

MEAC schools have done just that. And then were left out of the playoffs due to being whooped by said FBS school

SCSU proved that they were better than Wofford on the field. Yet they were never ranked.

A&T beat Jax St and Jax state was still ranked above us.

[Reign of Terrier]

No one wants their cake and eating it too. You guys aren't happy that the flaws in this system are being exposed.

MEAC schools have done just that. And then were left out of the playoffs due to being whooped by said FBS school

SCSU proved that they were better than Wofford on the field. Yet they were never ranked.

A&T beat Jax St and Jax state was still ranked above us.

SC State was ranked and then they lost a couple MEAC games.

Rankings are an aggregation of subjective opinion on the quality of teams, which changes over the course of the season. You don't see Samford fans on here begging for a playoff spot because they beat Wofford too.

The flaws aren't being exposed. The hole that SC State fell through was entirely of the MEAC (and SC State's) making. There's bubble teams every year who have a good argument to be included.

[ASU33]

The goalpost are constantly on the move! xcoffeex

[Redbird 4th & short]

No one wants their cake and eating it too. You guys aren't happy that the flaws in this system are being exposed.

MEAC schools have done just that. And then were left out of the playoffs due to being whooped by said FBS school

SCSU proved that they were better than Wofford on the field. Yet they were never ranked.

A&T beat Jax St and Jax state was still ranked above us.
they played 11 games last year, not just the one. But even in that one game JSU outgained NC AT by 400 to 150 .. then many NC AT fans starting touting how they were #1 in country .. as if beating JSU like that put them on same level as the team who won 7 Nattys in 8 year .. remeber that rediculous argument .. then you guys lost to Morgan St and went away for several weeks.

Season is 11 (or 12) games long .. not just 1 game. SC State was 5-3 against the 100th ranked SOS a few weeks ago and MEAC fans were arguing how they should be ranked and were a playoff contender ... because they beat Wofford in week 1, just like Samford did in week 2. Bottom line, SC ST has 3 losses and too many weak wins against weak teams. It is just not a playoff resume.

[ejjones]

You can't talk out both sides... that argument about a weak resume applies to:
ND, Albany, Kennesaw, Furman, and I could go on...they all beat up on the bottom feeders and lost to the Conf champ - ND only team with credible win.

The computers will always have MEAC teams SOS super low, whether it's deserved or not...

[ejjones]

SC State was ranked and then they lost a couple MEAC games.


We never cracked the top 25...

[Anthony215]

I agree that the Celebration Bowl is a great event and needed for the exposure and the paycheck, my suggestion is since it's held in mid December it's enough time for the MEAC champion to accept the FCS playoff berth, play in the playoffs and if they advance past round 2 their 2nd place team can play the SWAC champion. That way the conferences still have their bowl game and the MEAC which traditionally recently has been the better conference can send their champion to prove they can play with the big dogs in the playoffs. If the 2017 A&T Team had played in the playoffs I think they would have done some serious damage in the playoffs they had a heck of a team that year that would match up with NDSU & JMU IMHO. As previously stated the SWAC & MEAC teams weren't getting proper respect or recognition which is why they decided to opt for the Celebration Bowl......

[Professor]

Kennesaw is in because they have more playoff wins in the last two years than the MEAC has had in the 20th century. Your "breaking contracts" bit is pretty much a conspiracy theory considering they have Samford, Wofford, Furman, and Jacksonville State in the next 4 years. https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/

Wofford has a home and home with SC State and believe me, we will play it and I imagine with State picking up their game we would rather play/beat them every year than Gardner Webb.

A&T's scheduling is so hard (woah is they!) that they have NDSU, Furman, Elon and Charleston Southern on their future schedules. All of those teams made the playoffs in the last 3 years.

So, basically, everything in your post is wrong, which is an accomplishment.

So your telling me KSU doesn't break contracts?

So why not schedule a long term series?

A&T asked Elon for a longer deal than 2 years..... They said no. As well as other schools. You can sit here and act like losing to your local HBCU doesn't bother your fan base. And A&T has gotten several nos because of it. Those schools aren't the only ones we have reached out too

[Professor]

they played 11 games last year, not just the one. But even in that one game JSU outgained NC AT by 400 to 150 .. then many NC AT fans starting touting how they were #1 in country .. as if beating JSU like that put them on same level as the team who won 7 Nattys in 8 year .. remeber that rediculous argument .. then you guys lost to Morgan St and went away for several weeks.

Season is 11 (or 12) games long .. not just 1 game. SC State was 5-3 against the 100th ranked SOS a few weeks ago and MEAC fans were arguing how they should be ranked and were a playoff contender ... because they beat Wofford in week 1, just like Samford did in week 2. Bottom line, SC ST has 3 losses and too many weak wins against weak teams. It is just not a playoff resume.

And Kennessaw State best win is against................

Next your going to tell me the NAIA schools have a better SOS than the D2 and other MEAC teams on SCSU schedule