AGS Poll Results - WEEK 10 - 2019 SEASON

[AGSPoll]

11/4/2019



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
North Dakota State Bison
2050
82


2
James Madison Dukes
1945



3
Weber State Wildcats
1870



4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1837



5
Northern Iowa Panthers
1626



6
Montana Grizzlies
1616



7
Sac State Hornets
1602



8
Central Arkansas Bears
1473



9
Furman Paladins
1348



10
Illinois State Redbirds
1193



11
Montana State Bobcats
1087



12
Princeton Tigers
914



13
Dartmouth Big Green
877



14
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
780



15
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
754



16
Villanova Wildcats
669



17
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
550



18
North Carolina A&T Aggies
499



19
Wofford Terriers
476



20T
Florida A&M Rattlers
439



20T
New Hampshire Wildcats
439



22
Kennesaw State Owls
409



23
Monmouth Hawks
387



24
Austin Peay Governors
377



25
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
259
















ORV:




26
Towson Tigers
259



27
Southern Illinois Salukis
158



28
Stony Brook Seawolves
141



29
Sam Houston State Bearkats
123



30
The Citadel Bulldogs
109



31
Nicholls State Colonels
81



32
Richmond Spiders
79



33
San Diego Toreros
50



34T
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
48



34T
Yale Bulldogs
48



36
UC Davis Aggies
25



37
Maine Black Bears
12



38T
Albany Great Danes
9



38T
Youngstown State Penguins
9



40
Chattanooga Mocs
6
















Most Significant Win:

Weber State Wildcats



Most Significant Loss:

Kennesaw State Owls


https://i.imgur.com/K4uIqmr.png

[Professor Chaos]

Here's this week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-10-top-25-results-2/

My thoughts:

Come. On. Voters!!!! Kennesaw St the consensus #22 and Monmouth the consensus #23??? What more does Monmouth have have to do? I'm fine with Kennesaw St at #22... it's a bit high for my tastes but it's tough to find a lot of worth teams for that spot anyway but Monmouth is criminally underrated right now.
Montana St and SEMO moving up as much as they did was odd to me. They hopped over some teams like Princeton, Dartmouth, and CCSU that didn't make sense to me since neither Montana St or SEMO picked up wins that big and the teams they hopped over (maybe with the exception of Dartmouth) didn't look that bad picking up wins of their own.
Speaking of CCSU their #15 ranking is the highest ranking ever in the AGS Poll for a team from the NEC. Congrats to the Blue Devils!
The 10 spot difference in the consensus between SEMO and Austin Peay doesn't make sense to me. They're each 6-3 (4-1 in the OVC), Austin Peay has the head-to-head (albeit very close and at home), and Austin Peay has convincing wins over TTU and JSU teams that SEMO just barely squeaked by. SEMO does have wins over SIU and UTM that look pretty good and APSU's loss to ETSU looks bad so I can see SEMO in front of Austin Peay but not 10 spots in front of them.

[Prime Power]

How is Montana above Sac St and how is Kennesaw above Monmouth?

[clenz]

Come the **** on people...seriously.

If you put KSU a head of Monmouth put it out there. This need to be known.

Defend your actions.

[Professor Chaos]

How is Montana above Sac St and how is Kennesaw above Monmouth?
Yeah, that's another thing that struck me as odd. Are people already assuming that Sac St's QB Thomsen is going to be out for an extended period? If not, I have no clue how Montana gets above Sac St in the consensus.

[caribbeanhen]

Yeah, that's another thing that struck me as odd. Are people already assuming that Sac St's QB Thomsen is going to be out for an extended period? If not, I have no clue how Montana gets above Sac St in the consensus.

how many Sac State fans vote in the poll? probably one or two?

Yale also beat Richmond but not surprising really they are a few spots behind

Kennesaw State over Monmouth is just not right but we knew it was coming..... Love Story staring Ali McSaw

[MSUBobcat]

Yeah, that's another thing that struck me as odd. Are people already assuming that Sac St's QB Thomsen is going to be out for an extended period? If not, I have no clue how Montana gets above Sac St in the consensus.

I was wondering if there is some information out there about the extent of Thomson's injury that I can't find. That seems to be the only way that one could rank Montana ahead after a decent but not great win over Portland State, given the head to head drubbing in the not-too-distant past, IMO.

[Catbooster]

The points (and graphic) say 14th place is not a tie. I assume this is a typo from last week?

[Sader87]

Harvard not in the Top 40 is laughable.

If CCSU had played Holy Cross' schedule, they'd be hard pressed to be bettah than HC's 5-4 right now.

[Professor Chaos]

Here's my shot at it this week:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sacramento State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears

<intentionally putting a space here because I think there's that big of a gap between #8 and #9 right now>

9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Monmouth Hawks
12: Dartmouth Big Green
13: Princeton Tigers
14: New Hampshire Wildcats
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Sam Houston State Bearkats
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Southern Illinois Salukis
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: UT Martin Skyhawks

[clenz]

The points (and graphic) say 14th place is not a tie. I assume this is a typo from last week?
I can assure you this weeks graphic doesn't say that...because I don't save last weeks poll. I export it to an all new file and keep the base clear when i start over every week.

I missed the tie at 20...and because of how the template is laid out made at a choice with the tie for 25th

If that tie at 25 causes real grief I can rework the format on it.

[caribbeanhen]

Harvard not in the Top 40 is laughable.

If CCSU had played Holy Cross' schedule, they'd be hard pressed to be bettah than HC's 5-4 right now.

I can agree with this.... Harvard would roll a lot of these top 25 teams

[cx500d]

Here's my shot at it this week:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sacramento State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Monmouth Hawks
12: Dartmouth Big Green
13: Princeton Tigers
14: New Hampshire Wildcats
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Sam Houston State Bearkats
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Southern Illinois Salukis
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: UT Martin Skyhawks

this is criminal you didn’t have Harvard in the top 15

[BisonTru]

Playoff Outlook based on the AGS Poll



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes
Playoff Outlook


1
North Dakota State Bison
2050
82
MVFC Auto


2
James Madison Dukes
1945

CAA Auto


3
Weber State Wildcats
1870

Big Sky Auto


4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1837

AL 1


5
Northern Iowa Panthers
1626

AL 2


6
Montana Grizzlies
1616

AL 3


7
Sac State Hornets
1602

AL 4


8
Central Arkansas Bears
1473

Southland Auto


9
Furman Paladins
1348

Southern Auto


10
Illinois State Redbirds
1193

AL5


11
Montana State Bobcats
1087

AL6


12
Princeton Tigers
914

No playoffs


13
Dartmouth Big Green
877

No playoffs


14T
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
780

OVC Auto


14T
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
754

NEC Auto


16
Villanova Wildcats
669

AL 7


17
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
550

AL 8


18
North Carolina A&T Aggies
499

Bowl bid


19
Wofford Terriers
476

AL 9


20T
Florida A&M Rattlers
439

No postseason


20T
New Hampshire Wildcats
439

AL 10


22
Kennesaw State Owls
409

AL 11


23
Monmouth Hawks
387

Big South Auto


24
Austin Peay Governors
377

AL 12


25
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
259

AL 13

















ORV:





26
Towson Tigers
259

AL 14


27
Southern Illinois Salukis
158

FO 1


28
Stony Brook Seawolves
141

FO 2


29
Sam Houston State Bearkats
123

FO 3


30
The Citadel Bulldogs
109

FO 4


31
Nicholls State Colonels
81

NO 1


32
Richmond Spiders
79

NO 2


33
San Diego Toreros
50

Pioneer Auto


34T
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
48

NO 3


34T
Yale Bulldogs
48

No playoffs


36
UC Davis Aggies
25

NO 4


37
Maine Black Bears
12




38T
Albany Great Danes
9




38T
Youngstown State Penguins
9




40
Chattanooga Mocs
6














AL
At large





FO
First Out





NO
Next Out

[clenz]

Harvard not in the Top 40 is laughable.

If CCSU had played Holy Cross' schedule, they'd be hard pressed to be bettah than HC's 5-4 right now.
If UNI played either teams schedule they are undefeated

What's your point?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How is Montana above Sac St and how is Kennesaw above Monmouth?


I agree completely and I had a long email exchange with a voter on this very matter and he sort of got offended at my pressing him on having KSU with no Monmouth...and fairly high still.

There were a couple of others that did not respond to emails too and those few voters were enough to make that look like it is.

On Sac State they were on every ballot but a few did not have them real high to begin with and thus took it out on them a little bit this week.

[Sycamore62]

Yeah, that's another thing that struck me as odd. Are people already assuming that Sac St's QB Thomsen is going to be out for an extended period? If not, I have no clue how Montana gets above Sac St in the consensus.


Come the **** on people...seriously.

If you put KSU a head of Monmouth put it out there. This need to be known.

Defend your actions.

I cant remember where I put montana in relation to Sac State (i think they were next to each other) but I had KSU over Monmouth. Either way I was going off of where I think teams will end up. I may be going too much off history.

I also whiffed on Monmouth

[Professor Chaos]

Playoff Outlook based on the AGS Poll



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes
Playoff Outlook


1
North Dakota State Bison
2050
82
MVFC Auto


2
James Madison Dukes
1945

CAA Auto


3
Weber State Wildcats
1870

Big Sky Auto


4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1837

AL 1


5
Northern Iowa Panthers
1626

AL 2


6
Montana Grizzlies
1616

AL 3


7
Sac State Hornets
1602

AL 4


8
Central Arkansas Bears
1473

Southland Auto


9
Furman Paladins
1348

Southern Auto


10
Illinois State Redbirds
1193

AL5


11
Montana State Bobcats
1087

AL6


12
Princeton Tigers
914

No playoffs


13
Dartmouth Big Green
877

No playoffs


14T
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
780

OVC Auto


14T
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
754

NEC Auto


16
Villanova Wildcats
669

AL 7


17
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
550

AL 8


18
North Carolina A&T Aggies
499

AL 9


19
Wofford Terriers
476

AL 10


20T
Florida A&M Rattlers
439

Bowl Bid


20T
New Hampshire Wildcats
439

AL 11


22
Kennesaw State Owls
409

AL 12


23
Monmouth Hawks
387

Big South Auto


24
Austin Peay Governors
377

AL 13


25
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
259

AL 14

















ORV:





26
Towson Tigers
259

FO1


27
Southern Illinois Salukis
158

FO2


28
Stony Brook Seawolves
141

FO3


29
Sam Houston State Bearkats
123

FO4


30
The Citadel Bulldogs
109

NO1


31
Nicholls State Colonels
81

NO2


32
Richmond Spiders
79

NO3


33
San Diego Toreros
50

Pioneer Auto


34T
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
48

NO4


34T
Yale Bulldogs
48




36
UC Davis Aggies
25




37
Maine Black Bears
12




38T
Albany Great Danes
9




38T
Youngstown State Penguins
9




40
Chattanooga Mocs
6














AL
At large





FO
First Out





NO
Next Out


FAMU is ineligible for the postseason this year so that would mean A&T is the MEAC participant in the Celebration Bowl and Towson would get put into the field (which is probably fair since they were tied with UT Martin for 25th).

[BisonTru]

FAMU is ineligible for the postseason this year so that would mean A&T is the MEAC participant in the Celebration Bowl and Towson would get put into the field (which is probably fair since they were tied with UT Martin for 25th).

Gotcha. I'll fix it.

[Sader87]

If UNI played either teams schedule they are undefeated

What's your point?

UNI beats both Navy and Syracuse on the road? OK

[cx500d]

FAMU is ineligible for the postseason this year so that would mean A&T is the MEAC participant in the Celebration Bowl and Towson would get put into the field (which is probably fair since they were tied with UT Martin for 25th).
Is the celebration bowl an NCAA sanctioned event?

[Professor Chaos]

Is the celebration bowl an NCAA sanctioned event?
Yeah, I believe all bowls are NCAA sanctioned even though they aren't ran by the NCAA.

[Prime Power]

Harvard not in the Top 40 is laughable.

If CCSU had played Holy Cross' schedule, they'd be hard pressed to be bettah than HC's 5-4 right now.


They are 4-3 with a loss to #33 San Diego.....sure they played Dartmouth and Princeton to the VERY END, but LOST. In order to get into the top 40 that means people would have to think they are top 25 to receive votes....

If...if.....if....if???

[Sycamore62]

UNI beats both Navy and Syracuse on the road? OK

wouldnt surprise me

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The points (and graphic) say 14th place is not a tie. I assume this is a typo from last week?

I don't know how I messed that up but thanks for the point out cuz it is fixed now, I think.

[Catbooster]

I can assure you this weeks graphic doesn't say that...because I don't save last weeks poll. I export it to an all new file and keep the base clear when i start over every week.

I missed the tie at 20...and because of how the template is laid out made at a choice with the tie for 25th

If that tie at 25 causes real grief I can rework the format on it.
That's why I said it's NOT a tie in the graphic. xthumbsupx My comment wasn't as clear as it could have been - I assume it's a typo (copy/paste miss) in the text listing (we had a tie for 14th last week).

Oops - nevermind. Ursus caught it before I posted.

[WrenFGun]

Not only did UNH beat Villanova last week, they also beat Stony Brook who beat Nova away. That's preposterous having Nova ahead.

[Sader87]

If many here think CCSU is bettah than Harvard, you're as bad as many of the polls you deride.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I can assure you this weeks graphic doesn't say that...because I don't save last weeks poll. I export it to an all new file and keep the base clear when i start over every week.

I missed the tie at 20...and because of how the template is laid out made at a choice with the tie for 25th

If that tie at 25 causes real grief I can rework the format on it.

My grid is the graphic he is referring ot clenzy. I had it as a tie which it was not.

[caribbeanhen]

Is the celebration bowl an NCAA sanctioned event?

I believe it to be Kool and the Gang.....

[clenz]

My grid is the graphic he is referring ot clenzy. I had it as a tie which it was not.
I struggle with ties - as you know - so I got a bit defensive when I saw tie/graphic/etc.

My bad.

[Daytripper]

If many here think CCSU is bettah than Harvard, you're as bad as many of the polls you deride.

Many, like me, are very adverse to putting Ivy teams in the poll in the first place, much less a third place Ivy team. Join the playoffs and Ivy will get poll respect.

[ElCid]

Here's this week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-10-top-25-results-2/

My thoughts:

Come. On. Voters!!!! Kennesaw St the consensus #22 and Monmouth the consensus #23??? What more does Monmouth have have to do? I'm fine with Kennesaw St at #22... it's a bit high for my tastes but it's tough to find a lot of worth teams for that spot anyway but Monmouth is criminally underrated right now.
Montana St and SEMO moving up as much as they did was odd to me. They hopped over some teams like Princeton, Dartmouth, and CCSU that didn't make sense to me since neither Montana St or SEMO picked up wins that big and the teams they hopped over (maybe with the exception of Dartmouth) didn't look that bad picking up wins of their own.
Speaking of CCSU their #15 ranking is the highest ranking ever in the AGS Poll for a team from the NEC. Congrats to the Blue Devils!
The 10 spot difference in the consensus between SEMO and Austin Peay doesn't make sense to me. They're each 6-3 (4-1 in the OVC), Austin Peay has the head-to-head (albeit very close and at home), and Austin Peay has convincing wins over TTU and JSU teams that SEMO just barely squeaked by. SEMO does have wins over SIU and UTM that look pretty good and APSU's loss to ETSU looks bad so I can see SEMO in front of Austin Peay but not 10 spots in front of them.



Well I think the KSU/Monmouth thing is some people simply do not want to look at the Big South closely so they either didn't vote for Monmouth at all. I had them same as AGS spots, only flipped the correct way. I am not surprised at the Mont St and SEMO move, given that three teams ahead of them shat the bed pretty bad. Hopping over the Ivy is easy as a large block of voters do not vote for Ivies ever. I was going to move up CCSU, but dropped them back after I did after looking at their SOS and scores. They still moved up but not by as much. I have them at 15, same as AGS. As far as the Peay/SEMO thing, Peay has a couple bad/worse(?) loses than SEMO even if they own the H2H (ETSU who is actually not as bad as record and Tenn St). The extent of the difference is a bit much as you said, but that is what I think caused it. SEMO SOS is a bit higher as well.

The ones that get me are the voters voting for teams like Maine, UTC and UCD. Sorry, you have a losing record at this point, you do not deserve to be ranked. I don't care high your SOS is or how close your games were. Got to get the Ws. Otherwise, why play the games.

[caribbeanhen]

North Dakota State got all the first place votes

but less voters so either that crazy Bison fan finally got the message or didn't vote

[Professor Chaos]

If many here think CCSU is bettah than Harvard, you're as bad as many of the polls you deride.
So tell us what Harvard has done be ranked higher than CCSU?

[Grizalltheway]

Sac was certainly the better team the night we played them, but I'd like our chances if we get a rematch, even with a healthy Thompson. Not a poll voter, just my xtwocentsx.

[Daytripper]

I haven't been posting my poll this season, but I figured that I could bring some of you haters out of the closet by posting this one....xdrunkyx

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Weber State Wildcats
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Central Arkansas Bears
5: James Madison Dukes
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Furman Paladins
8: Sac State Hornets
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Florida A&M Rattlers
13: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Monmouth Hawks
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Towson Tigers
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Sam Houston State Bearkats
23: Austin Peay Governors
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: Princeton Tigers


Just realized I inexplicably left out UNH. Will correct next week.

[Prime Power]

Many, like me, are very adverse to putting Ivy teams in the poll in the first place, much less a third place Ivy team. Join the playoffs and Ivy will get poll respect.


Harvard is in 4th place right now in the Ivy.

What is interesting is that CCSU beat up on Columbia worse than Princeton did.....and Princeton beat Harvard.....so there is at least a slight argument that CCSU would hold their own against Princeton and probably beat Harvard....lol

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I haven't been posting my poll this season, but I figured that I could bring some of you haters out of the closet by posting this one....xdrunkyx

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Weber State Wildcats
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Central Arkansas Bears
5: James Madison Dukes
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Furman Paladins
8: Sac State Hornets
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Florida A&M Rattlers
13: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Monmouth Hawks
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Towson Tigers
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Sam Houston State Bearkats
23: Austin Peay Governors
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: Princeton Tigers

I have a question

[Bison56]

I haven't been posting my poll this season, but I figured that I could bring some of you haters out of the closet by posting this one....xdrunkyx

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Weber State Wildcats
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Central Arkansas Bears
5: James Madison Dukes
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Furman Paladins
8: Sac State Hornets
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Florida A&M Rattlers
13: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Monmouth Hawks
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Towson Tigers
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Sam Houston State Bearkats
23: Austin Peay Governors
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: Princeton Tigers

Furmans to high imo, but I'm a hater :D
And Weber belongs in the 2 spot.

[clenz]

Sac was certainly the better team the night we played them, but I'd like our chances if we get a rematch, even with a healthy Thompson. Not a poll voter, just my xtwocentsx.
I feel the same way with UNI and Weber State for a number of reasons

[Daytripper]

Furmans to high imo, but I'm a hater :D
And Weber belongs in the 2 spot.

I think I have had Weber at 2 for the last 3 or 4 weeks.

[Sader87]

So tell us what Harvard has done be ranked higher than CCSU?

I get it "if ifs and nuts...".....fact remains, that switch their schedules, and Harvard is 8-1 and CCSU at best is 4-3.

Harvard would beat CCSU 8 or 9 times out of 10. They have much more talent and depth than CCSU.

It is what it is....I get the anti-Ivy bias here....but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't think Harvard is a Top 40 FCS team this year.

[aceinthehole]

Harvard not in the Top 40 is laughable.

If CCSU had played Holy Cross' schedule, they'd be hard pressed to be bettah than HC's 5-4 right now.

Please. Absolutely garbage statement with nothing to back it up.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

North Dakota State got all the first place votes

but less voters so either that crazy Bison fan finally got the message or didn't vote

There ya go.

[aceinthehole]

If many here think CCSU is bettah than Harvard, you're as bad as many of the polls you deride.

We’ll never know, because Harvard doesn’t want that game. They rather play the 10-game circle jerk and won’t play a scholarship program like CCSU.

[Sader87]

Please. Absolutely garbage statement with nothing to back it up.

Who do you beat that HC didn't? At Navy? At Syracuse? At Yale? Harvard? Do you beat UNH at home as HC did?

[TheKingpin28]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Weber State Wildcats
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: Furman Paladins
11: Princeton Tigers
12: Montana State Bobcats
13: Dartmouth Big Green
14: New Hampshire Wildcats
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Florida A&M Rattlers
18: North Carolina A&T Aggies
19: Austin Peay Governors
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Sam Houston State Bearkats
22: Stony Brook Seawolves
23: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Villanova Wildcats

Alright, fire away.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

So tell us what Harvard has done be ranked higher than CCSU?

They lost to San Diego, Dartmouth, and Princeton:)

[Professor Chaos]

I get it "if ifs and nuts...".....fact remains, that switch their schedules, and Harvard is 8-1 and CCSU at best is 4-3.
That's pure speculation. Princeton and San Diego haven't been world beaters this year so there's plenty of reason to believe that CCSU could beat them when Harvard did not.


Harvard would beat CCSU 8 or 9 times out of 10. They have much more talent and depth than CCSU.

It is what it is....I get the anti-Ivy bias here....but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't think Harvard is a Top 40 FCS team this year.
So you're saying "just trust you"? Got it.

Harvard and the rest of the Ivies could prove how good they are or aren't if they didn't have their heads stuck in the sand. They reap what they sow.

[MSUBobcat]

I get it "if ifs and nuts...".....fact remains, that switch their schedules, and Harvard is 8-1 and CCSU at best is 4-3.

Harvard would beat CCSU 8 or 9 times out of 10. They have much more talent and depth than CCSU.

It is what it is....I get the anti-Ivy bias here....but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't think Harvard is a Top 40 FCS team this year.

Part of your assertion is flawed because we don't vote for the top 40. We vote for the top 25. Even if they were the unanimous #26 team to every voter, they wouldn't get a single point. Harvard lost to San Diego, who is currently ranked 33. That would be a #25 ranking on about 61% of all ballots. Doesn't seem all that far fetched for them to not be getting any top 25 votes if the team that beat them is only showing up on a little more than half.

[Sader87]

You guys love to go by results....HC beat UNH, Harvard beat HC both games at HC....still waiting to hear from ace on what he thinks their record would be playiing HC's schedule this year.

[Catbooster]

Get past the top 8 or 9 and it's tough to decide who to put where. Is it just me or does this seem like one of the harder years to fill out the poll at this stage of the season? I go back and forth on teams and eventually realize I'm not getting anywhere so I submit and hope next week clears it up a little.



1
North Dakota State Bison


2
Weber State Wildcats


3
James Madison Dukes


4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits


5
Sacramento State Hornets


6
Central Arkansas Bears


7
Northern Iowa Panthers


8
Montana Grizzlies


9
Furman Paladins


10
North Dakota Fighting Hawks


11
New Hampshire Wildcats


12
Illinois State Redbirds


13
Montana State Bobcats


14
Princeton Tigers


15
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks


16
Dartmouth Big Green


17
Richmond Spiders


18
Yale Bulldogs


19
Monmouth Hawks


20
Stony Brook Seawolves


21
Sam Houston State Bearkats


22
Villanova Wildcats


23
Austin Peay Governors


24
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils


25
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

[smilo]

I have Harvard mid-30s because my ballot is weighted too heavily on head to head games (which are never neutral site and thus deeply biased in addition to not fairly weighting performances in games where outcome is not in doubt). Was very excited to see Harvard #12 in the inaugural (beta) SP+ last week. I think their true ranking is likely between my head to head based rank and those computer metrics. Mid 20s is fair.

The fact that CCSU is top 40 is nothing short of insane.

[MSUBobcat]

Who do you beat that HC didn't? At Navy? At Syracuse? At Yale? Harvard? Do you beat UNH at home as HC did?

I'm not sure I agree that CCSU couldn't go 5-2 against the following schedule:

vs 5-3 UNH that didn't seem to be playing all that great to start the year (UNH beat 2-win Rhody by 3 whopping points AT HOME 2 weeks after losing to HC)
@ 6-1 Yale
@ 1-7 Bucknell
@ 1-6 Brown
vs 4-3 Harvard
vs 2-8 Colgate
@ 4-4 Lehigh

I'd say there's 4 highly likely wins in Bucknell, Brown, Colgate and Lehigh and a likely win over Harvard. That's 4 likely/5 potential wins before even factoring in the early-season UNH at home and Yale. UNH Y'all keep acting like you're playing some juggernaut schedule, when it's really not.

[dbackjon]

If many here think CCSU is bettah than Harvard, you're as bad as many of the polls you deride.

so a team that lost to San Diego and there signature win is Holy Cross (although granted that is probably the best win for ANY Ivy this year) should be top 15. gotcha.

If anything, you are making a great case NOT to rank ANY Ivy League team. At least CCSU was competitive (and really should have won) it's FBS game.

[dbackjon]

I get it "if ifs and nuts...".....fact remains, that switch their schedules, and Harvard is 8-1 and CCSU at best is 4-3.

Harvard would beat CCSU 8 or 9 times out of 10. They have much more talent and depth than CCSU.

It is what it is....I get the anti-Ivy bias here....but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't think Harvard is a Top 40 FCS team this year.

LOL Harvard wouldn't be 8-1

[Professor Chaos]

Get past the top 8 or 9 and it's tough to decide who to put where. Is it just me or does this seem like one of the harder years to fill out the poll at this stage of the season? I go back and forth on teams and eventually realize I'm not getting anywhere so I submit and hope next week clears it up a little.



1
North Dakota State Bison


2
Weber State Wildcats


3
James Madison Dukes


4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits


5
Sacramento State Hornets


6
Central Arkansas Bears


7
Northern Iowa Panthers


8
Montana Grizzlies


9
Furman Paladins


10
North Dakota Fighting Hawks


11
New Hampshire Wildcats


12
Illinois State Redbirds


13
Montana State Bobcats


14
Princeton Tigers


15
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks


16
Dartmouth Big Green


17
Richmond Spiders


18
Yale Bulldogs


19
Monmouth Hawks


20
Stony Brook Seawolves


21
Sam Houston State Bearkats


22
Villanova Wildcats


23
Austin Peay Governors


24
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils


25
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks


Wow, and I thought I had UND high at #17. They've got some pretty putrid losses to be that high up. They do have 3 decent wins but all are at home and by a combined 10 points.

[Sader87]

That's my point...CCSU is having a nice year, but they would more than likely not be any better than Holy Cross' 5-4 if they played our schedule.

- - - Updated - - -

[BisonFan02]

That's pure speculation. Princeton and San Diego haven't been world beaters this year so there's plenty of reason to believe that CCSU could beat them when Harvard did not.


So you're saying "just trust you"? Got it.

Harvard and the rest of the Ivies could prove how good they are or aren't if they didn't have their heads stuck in the sand. They reap what they sow.


There's one thing I've learned over the past however long its been now.....if you need rational/relevant FCS knowledge and information, its probably not Sader. xlolx

[Daytripper]

That's my point...CCSU is having a nice year, but they would more than likely not be any better than Holy Cross' 5-4 if they played our schedule.

- - - Updated - - -
But they don't play your schedule and you don't play theirs. I know that the premise of this entire process is somewhat based on "what ifs" but eventually we just have to look at who a team played and how they performed in those games. If we try to plug every team into every other team's schedule and ponder the possibilities, I don't know about the rest of you, but I would go bat**** crazy.

[Sader87]

LOL Harvard wouldn't be 8-1

Would love to know who beats Harvard on CCSU'S schedule beside Eastern Michigan?

[TheKingpin28]

Would love to know who beats Harvard on CCSU'S schedule beside Eastern Michigan?I never saw your poll, do you mind sharing the gold standard with the rest of us?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

I never saw your poll, do you mind sharing the gold standard with the rest of us?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

LOL....spend too much time running the "pick em" on our board as is.

Living in New England though, I follow/see a lot more of CAA/PL/IL/NEC football than many pollsters here.

[Catbooster]

Wow, and I thought I had UND high at #17. They've got some pretty putrid losses to be that high up. They do have 3 decent wins but all are at home and by a combined 10 points.
I'll concede that point. I wanted to put them above MSU because of the HTH, even though it was a very close game at their place, and in moving teams around they inched up a little more. They should probably be lower. I don't feel bound to place teams based on HTH, but I think I tend to be harder on my own team sometimes to avoid bias.

Thanks for the input.

[TheKingpin28]

LOL....spend too much time running the "pick em" on our board as is.

Living in New England though, I follow/see a lot more of CAA/PL/IL/NEC football than many pollsters here.So no time to vote but time to critique. Got it. xthumbsupx

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[WrenFGun]

After putting together my bracketology, why exactly is Furman so high?

Bleh wins over Chuck South, Mercer, ETSU, Samford, West Carolina and Chattanooga. Are we giving them credit for losing by a TD or less twice to FBS or something? They are, IMO, out of the playoffs with a loss to Wofford given they close with a D2 and have lost to every good team on their schedule.

[clenz]

After putting together my bracketology, why exactly is Furman so high?

Bleh wins over Chuck South, Mercer, ETSU, Samford, West Carolina and Chattanooga. Are we giving them credit for losing by a TD or less twice to FBS or something? They are, IMO, out of the playoffs with a loss to Wofford given they close with a D2 and have lost to every good team on their schedule.
I feel the same way about Illinois State

Blown out by NDSU
Blown out by UNI
No other real wins of note

Yet still in the 10-13 range.

Why?

The only thing I can come up with is trusting the bigger name over other smaller lesser known names.

[WrenFGun]

I feel the same way about Illinois State

Blown out by NDSU
Blown out by UNI
No other real wins of note

Yet still in the 10-13 range.

Why?

The only thing I can come up with is trusting the bigger name over other smaller lesser known names.

Again, I think ISU-R/Youngstown State at the end of the year is a play-in game all told. The MVFC is such that YSU has had the misfortune of playing the best teams early, but that doesn't mean they're not in it.

[dbackjon]

I feel the same way about Illinois State

Blown out by NDSU
Blown out by UNI
No other real wins of note

Yet still in the 10-13 range.

Why?

The only thing I can come up with is trusting the bigger name over other smaller lesser known names.


Beating NAU is always worth votes ;)

[Professor Chaos]

After putting together my bracketology, why exactly is Furman so high?

Bleh wins over Chuck South, Mercer, ETSU, Samford, West Carolina and Chattanooga. Are we giving them credit for losing by a TD or less twice to FBS or something? They are, IMO, out of the playoffs with a loss to Wofford given they close with a D2 and have lost to every good team on their schedule.


I feel the same way about Illinois State

Blown out by NDSU
Blown out by UNI
No other real wins of note

Yet still in the 10-13 range.

Why?

The only thing I can come up with is trusting the bigger name over other smaller lesser known names.
There's a lot of "bleh" after the top 8 right now IMO. I gave Furman and Illinois St the benefit of the doubt in my #9 and #10 spots because their warted up resumes look better than the other warted up resumes of the other teams I considered in those spots:


Monmouth - I like them a lot more than most but their best win is against a fringe top 25 Kennesaw team and a couple of their early season wins did not have inspiring margins.
Dartmouth - Bad SOS... should've lost an ugly game to Harvard.
Princeton - Worse SOS... worse MOVs than Dartmouth.
Central Connecticut St - Even worse SOS... best win is... Sacred Heart???
New Hampshire - Decent wins but ugly losses to Delaware and Holy Cross.
Villanova - On a 3 game slide... best win is Towson which is fringe top 25 at best.
UND - 3 good wins but all at home by a combined 10 points... 2 bad road losses.
Montana St - Good win vs SEMO but lost to the only other playoff caliber teams on their schedule.
SHSU - Some decent wins but bad loss to Lamar offsets some of that and they're already at 4 losses.
Austin Peay - Good wins in the OVC, played UCA tough, but bad loss to ETSU offsets some of that.
SEMO - Some decent wins but the best is fringe top 25 UTM... lost head-to-head to APSU.


Not really a whole lot else to put into the last few spots of that top 10.

[Sycamore62]

I feel the same way about Illinois State

Blown out by NDSU
Blown out by UNI
No other real wins of note

Yet still in the 10-13 range.

Why?

The only thing I can come up with is trusting the bigger name over other smaller lesser known names.

im holding my nose ranking them. wasnt impressed with their win against ISUb.

[uni88]

But they don't play your schedule and you don't play theirs. I know that the premise of this entire process is somewhat based on "what ifs" but eventually we just have to look at who a team played and how they performed in those games. If we try to plug every team into every other team's schedule and ponder the possibilities, I don't know about the rest of you, but I would go even more bat**** crazy.

FYP xsmiley_wix

[clenz]

There's a lot of "bleh" after the top 8 right now IMO. I gave Furman and Illinois St the benefit of the doubt in my #9 and #10 spots because their warted up resumes look better than the other warted up resumes of the other teams I considered in those spots:


Monmouth - I like them a lot more than most but their best win is against a fringe top 25 Kennesaw team and a couple of their early season wins did not have inspiring margins.
Dartmouth - Bad SOS... should've lost an ugly game to Harvard.
Princeton - Worse SOS... worse MOVs than Dartmouth.
Central Connecticut St - Even worse SOS... best win is... Sacred Heart???
New Hampshire - Decent wins but ugly losses to Delaware and Holy Cross.
Villanova - On a 3 game slide... best win is Towson which is fringe top 25 at best.
UND - 3 good wins but all at home by a combined 10 points... 2 bad road losses.
Montana St - Good win vs SEMO but lost to the only other playoff caliber teams on their schedule.
SHSU - Some decent wins but bad loss to Lamar offsets some of that and they're already at 4 losses.
Austin Peay - Good wins in the OVC, played UCA tough, but bad loss to ETSU offsets some of that.
SEMO - Some decent wins but the best is fringe top 25 UTM... lost head-to-head to APSU.


Not really a whole lot else to put into the last few spots of that top 10.
I should clarify that I had ISUr almost identically to where the finished the AGS vote. I just...if what I saw wearing red on Saturday is a top 13 program then the FCS is far far worse than I thought.

I was trying to has together a coherent though on it speaking with JSUSoutherner through texts but couldn't put it in words so I'll try here

I think part of this comes down to the way college athletics arms races are going. We see the same story, just smaller scales of it, at the FCS level.

No one wants to schedule OOC games against other top teams anymore outside of one off special situation deals.
This leads to inflated records from teams that are good but maybe not as good as their record indicates.
They get into conference play and all of a sudden they stutter a couple times (like is the norm outside of a very select few around the country) and all of a sudden we have 40 teams with 5-7 wins in week 10 and all we are left to do is sort out who had the least garbage schedule and who was most impressive in it.

It's a problem that is relatively new and not going away. From a UNI perspective it has kept UNI from a seed before. Play ranked FCS teams on the road OOC and and FBS, go 1-2 and you're already screwed for a top 10-13 ranking and a seed, even when you go 6-2 in MVFC play because you are 7-4, at best. Meanwhile there are dozens of teams at 8-3 or 9-2 with less impressive wins, but less losses.

I don't have a good answer other than I thin the FCS is maybe more balanced than any time before....but also just worse overall

[clenz]

im holding my nose ranking them. wasnt impressed with their win against ISUb.
I'm taking my daughter to her second UNI game of her life this weekend - the first she'll be old enough to remember

I hope it turns out better than the first game I took her too.

So...if you could tell your Syc's to take the weekend off I'd appreciate it

[Sycamore62]

I'm taking my daughter to her second UNI game of her life this weekend - the first she'll be old enough to remember

I hope it turns out better than the first game I took her too.

So...if you could tell your Syc's to take the weekend off I'd appreciate it

If they play the best game of the year it will be able to keep her interest until after the band's halftime show. If you want to make it interesting, keep a score where every time ISUb gets to the 25 it counts as 7pts and to the 50 it's 3. See what the score would have been.

[Prime Power]

There's a lot of "bleh" after the top 8 right now IMO. I gave Furman and Illinois St the benefit of the doubt in my #9 and #10 spots because their warted up resumes look better than the other warted up resumes of the other teams I considered in those spots:


Monmouth - I like them a lot more than most but their best win is against a fringe top 25 Kennesaw team and a couple of their early season wins did not have inspiring margins.
Dartmouth - Bad SOS... should've lost an ugly game to Harvard.
Princeton - Worse SOS... worse MOVs than Dartmouth.
Central Connecticut St - Even worse SOS... best win is... Sacred Heart???
New Hampshire - Decent wins but ugly losses to Delaware and Holy Cross.
Villanova - On a 3 game slide... best win is Towson which is fringe top 25 at best.
UND - 3 good wins but all at home by a combined 10 points... 2 bad road losses.
Montana St - Good win vs SEMO but lost to the only other playoff caliber teams on their schedule.
SHSU - Some decent wins but bad loss to Lamar offsets some of that and they're already at 4 losses.
Austin Peay - Good wins in the OVC, played UCA tough, but bad loss to ETSU offsets some of that.
SEMO - Some decent wins but the best is fringe top 25 UTM... lost head-to-head to APSU.


Not really a whole lot else to put into the last few spots of that top 10.

There is even some in the top 8. I was blown away that Montana has ONE win against a team with a winning record. Monmouth....there are only 4 teams in the Big Sky above .500....Weber has 2 against winning teams, Sac has 2, and Montana St has 1.....

[polsongrizz]

Many, like me, are very adverse to putting Ivy teams in the poll in the first place, much less a third place Ivy team. Join the playoffs and Ivy will get poll respect.

UNTIL the ivy league starts participating in the playoffs I will never put them in my poll. I honestly don't see the point. They could beat Alabama and I still wouldn't rank them.
Which overall is kind of funny with the up in arms on here over kennesaw and monmouth rankings but still rank teams that refuse to participate in the playoffs.

[Reign of Terrier]

I should clarify that I had ISUr almost identically to where the finished the AGS vote. I just...if what I saw wearing red on Saturday is a top 13 program then the FCS is far far worse than I thought.

I was trying to has together a coherent though on it speaking with JSUSoutherner through texts but couldn't put it in words so I'll try here

I think part of this comes down to the way college athletics arms races are going. We see the same story, just smaller scales of it, at the FCS level.

No one wants to schedule OOC games against other top teams anymore outside of one off special situation deals.
This leads to inflated records from teams that are good but maybe not as good as their record indicates.
They get into conference play and all of a sudden they stutter a couple times (like is the norm outside of a very select few around the country) and all of a sudden we have 40 teams with 5-7 wins in week 10 and all we are left to do is sort out who had the least garbage schedule and who was most impressive in it.

It's a problem that is relatively new and not going away. From a UNI perspective it has kept UNI from a seed before. Play ranked FCS teams on the road OOC and and FBS, go 1-2 and you're already screwed for a top 10-13 ranking and a seed, even when you go 6-2 in MVFC play because you are 7-4, at best. Meanwhile there are dozens of teams at 8-3 or 9-2 with less impressive wins, but less losses.

I don't have a good answer other than I thin the FCS is maybe more balanced than any time before....but also just worse overall100% agree.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Grizalltheway]

There is even some in the top 8. I was blown away that Montana has ONE win against a team with a winning record. Monmouth....there are only 4 teams in the Big Sky above .500....Weber has 2 against winning teams, Sac has 2, and Montana St has 1.....
Still the 5th ranked SOS according to Massey...

[UNDColorado]

This is by far the best poll out there. I appreciate the work you all put into this.

[RootinFerDukes]

AGS is becoming the same slot voting nonsense we complain about other polls being. CCSU at 15? KSU still ranked? ill state at 10?!

[Sycamore62]

I think there are about 3 teams that have a legit beef about their ranking

JMU
Weber St
SDSU

[GoBlueHens83]

Not only did UNH beat Villanova last week, they also beat Stony Brook who beat Nova away. That's preposterous having Nova ahead.

The loss to Delaware probably isn't making UNH look great in the eyes of the voters.

[GoBlueHens83]

AGS is becoming the same slot voting nonsense we complain about other polls being. CCSU at 15? KSU still ranked? ill state at 10?!

Agree about KSU, I dropped them completely this week. They don't have a single good win to their name.

[crusader11]

What is CCSU doing at #15?

[clenz]

Agree about KSU, I dropped them completely this week. They don't have a single good win to their name.
May I ask - given what you just said:

Where did you have them ranked before

and

why?

[WrenFGun]

The loss to Delaware probably isn't making UNH look great in the eyes of the voters.

I mean, I know Delaware fans are pretty hard on the team, but is Delaware any different than the mass of other teams in the CAA? It's not like they have any bad losses; they've had a really tough schedule, were competitive with PITT, hung 22 on NDSU. They don't have any good wins either short of UNH, but like, I don't look at UD as a bottom-feeder. There's a lot of bad losses out there, I don't consider UD to be at the top of them. If Holy Cross had a typical Holy Cross year, sure, that'd be a terrible loss, but their first in the PL and that was the first game for an interim coach and freshman QB.

Calling a spade a spade, though, UNH is 1-3 on the road [only win over Stony Brook] and 4-0 at home. It's a young team and they'll probably be dogs in a must-win against Albany after the JMU game.

[GoBlueHens83]

May I ask - given what you just said:

Where did you have them ranked before

and

why?

I had them way too high at 11.

Honestly, a lot of it had to do with last year, and the fact that their schedule set up in a way that it was hard to tell if they were still any good or not.

I was never totally happy with having them that high to be honest.

[GoBlueHens83]

I mean, I know Delaware fans are pretty hard on the team, but is Delaware any different than the mass of other teams in the CAA? It's not like they have any bad losses; they've had a really tough schedule, were competitive with PITT, hung 22 on NDSU. They don't have any good wins either short of UNH, but like, I don't look at UD as a bottom-feeder. There's a lot of bad losses out there, I don't consider UD to be at the top of them. If Holy Cross had a typical Holy Cross year, sure, that'd be a terrible loss, but their first in the PL and that was the first game for an interim coach and freshman QB.

Calling a spade a spade, though, UNH is 1-3 on the road [only win over Stony Brook] and 4-0 at home. It's a young team and they'll probably be dogs in a must-win against Albany after the JMU game.

I don't think UD is a bottom feeder either, but they are now a team with a losing record (4-5). If UNH had taken care of business in that game, I think you would have seen UNH above Nova this week.

[mvemjsunpx]

(previous week in parentheses)


1. North Dakota St. (1)
2. James Madison (2)
3. Weber St. (4)
4. South Dakota St. (5)
5. Sac State (3)
6. Dartmouth (6)
7. Northern Iowa (8)
8. Princeton (10)
9. Montana (11)
10. Central Arkansas (12)
11. Montana St. (15)
12. Illinois St. (9)
13. Monmouth (NR)
14. Southeast Missouri St. (16)
15. New Hampshire (21)
16. Southern Illinois (17)
17. CCSU (22)
18. Yale (NR)
19. Tennessee-Martin (18)
20. Florida A&M (23)
21. North Carolina A&T (24)
22. Richmond (NR)
23. Furman (20)
24. Austin Peay (NR)
25. Stony Brook (13)

W - Monmouth
L - Kennesaw St.


Dropped - Kennesaw St. (7), Villanova (14), Albany (19), South Carolina St. (25)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

UNTIL the ivy league starts participating in the playoffs I will never put them in my poll. I honestly don't see the point. They could beat Alabama and I still wouldn't rank them.
Which overall is kind of funny with the up in arms on here over kennesaw and monmouth rankings but still rank teams that refuse to participate in the playoffs.

The poll is not about the playoffs. That does not have **** to do with what this is supposed to be. I know people do that but it is about all FCS teams and their relative strengths. But, it can be argued it is hard to rank them due to the insular state of play.

[Daytripper]

The poll is not about the playoffs. That does not have **** to do with what this is supposed to be. I know people do that but it is about all FCS teams and their relative strengths. But, it can be argued it is hard to rank them due to the incestuous state of play.

FYP

[caribbeanhen]

I mean, I know Delaware fans are pretty hard on the team, but is Delaware any different than the mass of other teams in the CAA? It's not like they have any bad losses; they've had a really tough schedule, were competitive with PITT, hung 22 on NDSU. They don't have any good wins either short of UNH, but like, I don't look at UD as a bottom-feeder. There's a lot of bad losses out there, I don't consider UD to be at the top of them. If Holy Cross had a typical Holy Cross year, sure, that'd be a terrible loss, but their first in the PL and that was the first game for an interim coach and freshman QB.

Calling a spade a spade, though, UNH is 1-3 on the road [only win over Stony Brook] and 4-0 at home. It's a young team and they'll probably be dogs in a must-win against Albany after the JMU game.

Delaware fans are deservedly hard on Danny Rocco,

not happy with his ultra conservative style of play on Defense and no play makers on the DL

4 sacks all year with 3 being against New Hampshire

not happy with the way talented RB Will Knight and his 7.6 yards per carry are being under utilized

not happy with how long it took him to get QB Nolan Henderson into the starting job, he missed it by a season

We are hanging our hopes on Henderson and Knight but still need a DL and OL

New Hampshire looked like nothing special vs Delaware but has obviously played much better lately

Henderson also missed 2 games or really 3 due concussion and 2 to Rocco stubbornness

[clenz]

The poll is not about the playoffs. That does not have **** to do with what this is supposed to be. I know people do that but it is about all FCS teams and their relative strengths. But, it can be argued it is hard to rank them due to the insular state of play.
This here.

I used to not include them, but at this point anyone who claims they won't rank them because they don't do playoffs I will mostly ignore their opinion.

It's not a top 25 playoff poll.
It's a top 25 FCS poll

They are still FCS teams. They should be ranked as such.

I've also seen arguments against FAMU that are "They have an APR ban so they shouldn't be able to be ranked"

Uh...what? That doesn't impact if they are a top 25 caliber FCS team at all.

[Daytripper]

This here.

I used to not include them, but at this point anyone who claims they won't rank them because they don't do playoffs I will mostly ignore their opinion.

It's not a top 25 playoff poll.
It's a top 25 FCS poll

They are still FCS teams. They should be ranked as such.

I've also seen arguments against FAMU that are "They have an APR ban so they shouldn't be able to be ranked"

Uh...what? That doesn't impact if they are a top 25 caliber FCS team at all.

Agree about the Ivies, but I can't help but give them the least possible benefit of the doubt. Probably because if I rank them very high during the regular season, I will never get the satisfaction of seeing them live up to their lofty status by making a run against their fellow fcs powers and plowing their way to an the inevitable quarterfinal or semifinal loss to NDSU like the rest of us.

[GoBlueHens83]

Delaware fans are deservedly hard on Danny Rocco,

not happy with his ultra conservative style of play on Defense and no play makers on the DL

4 sacks all year with 3 being against New Hampshire

not happy with the way talented RB Will Knight and his 7.6 yards per carry are being under utilized

not happy with how long it took him to get QB Nolan Henderson into the starting job, he missed it by a season

We are hanging our hopes on Henderson and Knight but still need a DL and OL

New Hampshire looked like nothing special vs Delaware but has obviously played much better lately

Henderson also missed 2 games or really 3 due concussion and 2 to Rocco stubbornness

Careful, the folks on GoHens will be picking you apart for this post.

Agree on all points, but the defensive philosophy of Delaware this year is just flat out terrible.

[Professor Chaos]

What is CCSU doing at #15?
I don't know... I do know why the teams ranked below them aren't at #15 though.

[clenz]

Agree about the Ivies, but I can't help but give them the least possible benefit of the doubt. Probably because if I rank them very high during the regular season, I will never get the satisfaction of seeing them live up to their lofty status by making a run against their fellow fcs powers and plowing their way to an the inevitable quarterfinal or semifinal loss to NDSU like the rest of us.
That I can/do agree with.

When I'm doing my sheet I have a multiplier I use that takes conference/SoS into account. I put the Ivy on the same multiplier as the MEAC/OVC...

[Gil Dobie]

(previous week in parentheses)


1. North Dakota St. (1)
2. James Madison (2)
3. Weber St. (4)
4. South Dakota St. (5)
5. Sac State (3)
6. Dartmouth (6)
7. Northern Iowa (8)
8. Princeton (10)
9. Montana (11)
10. Central Arkansas (12)
11. Montana St. (15)
12. Illinois St. (9)
13. Monmouth (NR)
14. Southeast Missouri St. (16)
15. New Hampshire (21)
16. Southern Illinois (17)
17. CCSU (22)
18. Yale (NR)
19. Tennessee-Martin (18)
20. Florida A&M (23)
21. North Carolina A&T (24)
22. Richmond (NR)
23. Furman (20)
24. Austin Peay (NR)
25. Stony Brook (13)

W - Monmouth
L - Kennesaw St.


Dropped - Kennesaw St. (7), Villanova (14), Albany (19), South Carolina St. (25)

I'm sure this has been discussed before, several times, but San Diego beat Harvard by a bigger margin than Princeton or Dartmouth. San Diego and Princeton on the road and Dartmouth at home. That's the main reason I don't have Harvard ranked and Princeton and Dartmouth in the teens.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Here's this week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-10-top-25-results-2/

My thoughts:

Come. On. Voters!!!! Kennesaw St the consensus #22 and Monmouth the consensus #23??? What more does Monmouth have have to do? I'm fine with Kennesaw St at #22... it's a bit high for my tastes but it's tough to find a lot of worth teams for that spot anyway but Monmouth is criminally underrated right now.
Montana St and SEMO moving up as much as they did was odd to me. They hopped over some teams like Princeton, Dartmouth, and CCSU that didn't make sense to me since neither Montana St or SEMO picked up wins that big and the teams they hopped over (maybe with the exception of Dartmouth) didn't look that bad picking up wins of their own.
Speaking of CCSU their #15 ranking is the highest ranking ever in the AGS Poll for a team from the NEC. Congrats to the Blue Devils!
The 10 spot difference in the consensus between SEMO and Austin Peay doesn't make sense to me. They're each 6-3 (4-1 in the OVC), Austin Peay has the head-to-head (albeit very close and at home), and Austin Peay has convincing wins over TTU and JSU teams that SEMO just barely squeaked by. SEMO does have wins over SIU and UTM that look pretty good and APSU's loss to ETSU looks bad so I can see SEMO in front of Austin Peay but not 10 spots in front of them.



I agree with about all of that. Monmouth is ahead of KSU on mine and the teams #18 and #19. I have yet to vote CCSU though. They are #26 in my list right now and one of those teams if they have some convincing wins over the next couple weeks I'll push up to 17-20 range quick.

[Derby City Duke]

Here’s my attempt. Thought about flipping JMU and Weber but in the end decided against it. Flog me if you wish.

Hello Derby City Duke,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 20:05:52

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Northern Iowa Panthers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Furman Paladins
10: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
11: Dartmouth Big Green
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
16: Montana State Bobcats
17: Princeton Tigers
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Florida A&M Rattlers
20: Wofford Terriers
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Monmouth Hawks
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
25: Kennesaw State Owls

Derby City Duke

The Most Significant Win: New Hampshire Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls

[cx500d]

Here’s my attempt. Thought about flipping JMU and Weber but in the end decided against it. Flog me if you wish.

Hello Derby City Duke,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 20:05:52

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Northern Iowa Panthers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Furman Paladins
10: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
11: Dartmouth Big Green
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
16: Montana State Bobcats
17: Princeton Tigers
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Florida A&M Rattlers
20: Wofford Terriers
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Monmouth Hawks
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
25: Kennesaw State Owls

Derby City Duke

The Most Significant Win: New Hampshire Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls

I’ll flog you for your #12.

[dewey]

Here is my top 25. I relied heavily on the Massey and Sagarin for about 13-25.

Hello dewey,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 22:56:32

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Weber State Wildcats
3: James Madison Dukes
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Dartmouth Big Green
13: Princeton Tigers
14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
15: New Hampshire Wildcats
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: Towson Tigers
18: Monmouth Hawks
19: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
20: Kennesaw State Owls
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Sam Houston State Bearkats
24: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
25: Southeastern Louisiana Lions

dewey

The Most Significant Win: Weber State Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Dewey

[Daytripper]

I’ll flog you for your #12.

I will flog you for your threat of flogging this person for his #12.

[polsongrizz]

The poll is not about the playoffs. That does not have **** to do with what this is supposed to be. I know people do that but it is about all FCS teams and their relative strengths. But, it can be argued it is hard to rank them due to the insular state of play.

If that is the case then why are we told on the last weekend of play to get our polls in early because the selection committee is meeting the day after the last games?

[POD Knows]

Flame away losers. :D

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 11:26:05

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Princeton Tigers
12: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Dartmouth Big Green
15: Florida A&M Rattlers
16: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Wofford Terriers
20: New Hampshire Wildcats
21: Austin Peay Governors
22: Towson Tigers
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Southern Illinois Salukis
25: Monmouth Hawks

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Monmouth Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Dartmouth Big Green
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Furman Paladins
12: Princeton Tigers
13: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
14: Florida A&M Rattlers
15: Wofford Terriers
16: North Carolina A&T Aggies
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: San Diego Toreros
19: Montana State Bobcats
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: Alcorn State Braves
22: New Hampshire Wildcats
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Villanova Wildcats
25: Monmouth Hawks

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: New Hampshire Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If that is the case then why are we told on the last weekend of play to get our polls in early because the selection committee is meeting the day after the last games?

Because it avoids the appearance that people would switch their ballots and so forth to match what the selection committee has done. If we were to wait and put the poll out Monday at 10 a.m. a day after the selection committee made their selections and our poll matches up with it fairly closely then what do you think it would look like to the outside world? It would not have nearly the integrity as it would if we put it out prior to the selections correct?

Having the Ivy teams in our poll does not matter one iota because we do the same thing with our poll that the selection committee does when selecting and we just disregard them when it comes to the playoffs and selecting the teams just like we do with the SWAC and MEAC champs.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

What is CCSU doing at #15?

I think the real question is why are the Ivy teams given their ranking other than someone's biased "eye test?"

FCS National Stats (through 11/2/19) – CCSU by the Numbers
#1 – Road Wins (5)
#1 – Rushing Defense (64.1 YPG)
#1 – Opponents Rushing TDs (2)
#2 – Passes Intercepted (15)
#2t – Wins (8)
#2t – Defensive TDs (4)
#4 – Passing Efficiency (Aaron Winchester, 174.50)
#5 – Passing Yards per Completion (Aaron Winchester, 15.34)
#6 – Turnover Margin (1.22 Avg)
#7 – Team Passing Efficiency (172.93)
#8 – Scoring Defense (16.8 PPG)
#8 – Team Passing Efficiency Defense (110.12)
#9 – Time of Possession (32 Avg)
#10 – Completion Percentage (.663)
#10 – Yards per Reception (Tyshaun James, 22.13)
#11 – Passing Yards per Completion (15.34)
#11 – Rushing Yards per Carry (Aaron Winchester, 6.53)
#21 – Rushing Offense (205.1 YPG)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think the real question is why are the Ivy teams given their ranking other than someone's biased "eye test?"

FCS National Stats (through 11/2/19) – CCSU by the Numbers
#1 – Road Wins (5)
#1 – Rushing Defense (64.1 YPG)
#1 – Opponents Rushing TDs (2)
#2 – Passes Intercepted (15)
#2t – Wins (8)
#2t – Defensive TDs (4)
#4 – Passing Efficiency (Aaron Winchester, 174.50)
#5 – Passing Yards per Completion (Aaron Winchester, 15.34)
#6 – Turnover Margin (1.22 Avg)
#7 – Team Passing Efficiency (172.93)
#8 – Scoring Defense (16.8 PPG)
#8 – Team Passing Efficiency Defense (110.12)
#9 – Time of Possession (32 Avg)
#10 – Completion Percentage (.663)
#10 – Yards per Reception (Tyshaun James, 22.13)
#11 – Passing Yards per Completion (15.34)
#11 – Rushing Yards per Carry (Aaron Winchester, 6.53)
#21 – Rushing Offense (205.1 YPG)

The Ivy League is better than the NEC. The Ivy League is imo the 3rd or 4th best conference in FCS.

All this is really irrelevant. CCSU is headed to the playoffs and will likely play the PL Champ or a middling CAA team. Embrace the opportunity...

[Daytripper]

The Ivy League is better than the NEC. The Ivy League is imo the 3rd or 4th best conference in FCS.

All this is really irrelevant. CCSU is headed to the playoffs and will likely play the PL Champ or a middling CAA team. Embrace the opportunity...

How do we know the Ivy League is so good? One of the important ways we are able to determine comparable strengths of conference is when teams from different conferences meet in the playoffs.

[aceinthehole]

The Ivy League is better than the NEC. The Ivy League is imo the 3rd or 4th best conference in FCS.

Another garbage statement. It is a 8-team, 10-game insular group of teams that are living off former reputations.

No one is really suggesting there aren't some very good Ivy teams, but to suggest that Princeton could beat a CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, or SoCon team is an absurd statement, when they haven't done it in almost 40 years.

FACT: Princeton has 2 wins outside of the Ivy/PL/PFL since 1980.

FACT: Since 1981 Princeton is a combined 0-8 in their home/home deals against The Citadel, Delaware, Hampton, and William & Mary.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How do we know the Ivy League is so good? One of the important ways we are able to determine comparable strengths of conference is when teams from different conferences meet in the playoffs.

Been watching the league for 30 years. Been following the FCS level at a goofy level for the last 20. The IL has always had some elite teams, mid 90's Penn, early 2000's Penn and Harvard but nothing like what the league has going on now.

The schools pay their coaches well so these are high quality staffs that stay in place. In the past they recruited really good talent but the teams often lacked depth and toughness imo. Now they got FBS level players to go along improved depth. They simply live in their own little bubble. Some times they step out of it.

The IL is nothing more than a vote away from being a solid FBS conference. They could challenge the AAC in 3 years if they wanted to. Their resources are unlimited.

[Derby City Duke]

I’ll flog you for your #12.

Fair enough. Will have to go back and check my work to see if I mis-slotted them or if I’m just a knucklehead. I’m betting on the latter.

[Bisonator]

Here's my **** list this week:


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Northern Iowa Panthers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Monmouth Hawks
14: Austin Peay Governors
15: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
19: New Hampshire Wildcats
20: Florida A&M Rattlers
21: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
22: Wofford Terriers
23: San Diego Toreros
24: Richmond Spiders
25: North Carolina A&T Aggies

[Daytripper]

Another garbage statement. It is a 8-team, 10-game insular group of teams that are living off former reputations.

No one is really suggesting there aren't some very good Ivy teams, but to suggest that Princeton could beat a CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, or SoCon team is an absurd statement, when they haven't done it in almost 40 years.

FACT: Princeton has 2 wins outside of the Ivy/PL/PFL since 1980.

FACT: Since 1981 Princeton is a combined 0-8 in their home/home deals against The Citadel, Delaware, Hampton, and William & Mary.

Exactly. This whole argument about how good the Ivy League is needs to stop. They play an incestuous schedule every year. They play few, if any, OOC games. They don't play other conferences in the playoffs. They only play each other and look good doing it. That is no justification for assuming that they are better than anybody else.

[polsongrizz]

because it avoids the appearance that people would switch their ballots and so forth to match what the selection committee has done. If we were to wait and put the pull out Monday at 10 a.m. a day after the selection committee made their selections and our pool matches up with it fairly closely then what do you think it would look like to the outside world? It would not have nearly the integrity as it would if we put it out prior to the selections correct?

Having the IV teams in our poll does not matter one iota because we do the same thing with our pole that the selection committee does when selecting and we just disregard them when it comes to the playoffs and selecting the teams just like we do with the swac and meac champs.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I guess I am slow, the last thing I would think would be that people would actually do that.

[The Yo Show]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Illinois State Redbirds
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Furman Paladins
11: Princeton Tigers
12: Dartmouth Big Green
13: Montana State Bobcats
14: Monmouth Hawks
15: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
16: Florida A&M Rattlers
17: North Carolina A&T Aggies
18: Wofford Terriers
19: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Yale Bulldogs
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Sam Houston State Bearkats

The Yo Show

The Most Significant Win: Monmouth Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Daytripper]

Been watching the league for 30 years. Been following the FCS level at a goofy level for the last 20. The IL has always had some elite teams, mid 90's Penn, early 2000's Penn and Harvard but nothing like what the league has going on now.

The schools pay their coaches well so these are high quality staffs that stay in place. In the past they recruited really good talent but the teams often lacked depth and toughness imo. Now they got FBS level players to go along improved depth. They simply live in their own little bubble. Some times they step out of it.

The IL is nothing more than a vote away from being a solid FBS conference. They could challenge the AAC in 3 years if they wanted to. Their resources are unlimited.

WTF?! Agree that their pockets are deep, but that Lehigh weed you are smoking is starting to snap some of the vital brain connectors in your brain.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another garbage statement. It is a 8-team, 10-game insular group of teams that are living off former reputations.

No one is really suggesting there aren't some very good Ivy teams, but to suggest that Princeton could beat a CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, or SoCon team is an absurd statement, when they haven't done it in almost 40 years.

FACT: Princeton has 2 wins outside of the Ivy/PL/PFL since 1980.

FACT: Since 1981 Princeton is a combined 0-8 in their home/home deals against The Citadel, Delaware, Hampton, and William & Mary.

I base my judgement soley on watching the teams play. Have to factor in recruiting and coaching too.

Anyway, you come across as such bitter person. Your tactic of almost always tearing others down instead of accentuating CCSU's positives is a failure. I'm just happy you've redirected your angst from the PL to the Ivy League. xcoffeex

[Professor Chaos]

Been watching the league for 30 years. Been following the FCS level at a goofy level for the last 20. The IL has always had some elite teams, mid 90's Penn, early 2000's Penn and Harvard but nothing like what the league has going on now.

The schools pay their coaches well so these are high quality staffs that stay in place. In the past they recruited really good talent but the teams often lacked depth and toughness imo. Now they got FBS level players to go along improved depth. They simply live in their own little bubble. Some times they step out of it.

The IL is nothing more than a vote away from being a solid FBS conference. They could challenge the AAC in 3 years if they wanted to. Their resources are unlimited.
After watching a good chunk of the Harvard/Dartmouth game on Saturday if Harvard is paying their coaches good money they should ask for some money back.

[Daytripper]

I base my judgement soley on watching the teams play. Have to factor in recruiting and coaching too.

Anyway, you come across as such bitter person. Your tactic of almost always tearing others down instead of accentuating CCSU's positives is a failure. I'm just happy you've redirected your angst from the PL to the Ivy League. xcoffeex

You only watch them play themselves. I don't see how you can make a cogent argument when there are few/no games against other conferences. UCA and Sam Houston played a great game the other night. That game alone is no basis to assume they would match up well against NDSU or Weber... or Dartmouth or Princeton.

[Professor Chaos]

I guess I am slow, the last thing I would think would be that people would actually do that.
I have little doubt it would happen because it happens in between the Selection Sunday poll and the final poll. Last year for example the AGS consensus had Indiana St and Furman at #20 and #22, respectively, on the Selection Sunday poll which would've had them both comfortably in the field if the committee followed the AGS consensus. As we all know they were left out and then in the final poll Indiana St fell 4 spots to #24 and Furman fell 5 spots to #27 despite neither playing a game between poll releases (and there were plenty of middling teams in that 20-25 range that stunk it up in the playoffs like Stony Brook, Elon, and Towson).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

WTF?! Agree that their pockets are deep, but that Lehigh weed you are smoking is starting to snap some of the vital brain connectors in your brain.

Temple weed was definitely better. Coke was probably better at Lehigh but I was neither rich nor an insomniac. Anyway, thankfully weed is basically legal in PA. A win for all....

It has to do with resources and the ability to recruit. But there's a futile balancing act with their whacky administrations that limits how far they can push things. The whole thing is ridiculous. But as ridiculous as it is it ultimately has nothing to do with the quality of the teams. I stand by belief that a lot of people simply are annoyed/bitter at the Ivy League model in general. And when it comes to football it's a great opportunity to say "you're not good enough" because in life it's almost always the Ivy Leaguers looking down upon us.

I went to a state affiliated university in one of the grittiest neighborhoods in the United States. I didn't go to a PL or IL school so I have no reason to kiss their behinds. With that said, they're playing really good FCS football lately.

[Daytripper]

Temple weed was definitely better. Coke was probably better at Lehigh but I was neither rich nor an insomniac. Anyway, thankfully weed is basically legal in PA. A win for all....

It has to do with resources and the ability to recruit. But there's a futile balancing act with their whacky administrations that limits how far they can push things. The whole thing is ridiculous. But as ridiculous as it is it ultimately has nothing to do with the quality of the teams. I stand by belief that a lot of people simply are annoyed/bitter at the Ivy League model in general. And when it comes to football it's a great opportunity to say "you're not good enough" because in life it's almost always the Ivy Leaguers looking down upon us.

I went to a state affiliated universities in one of the grittiest neighborhoods in the United States. I didn't go to a PL or IL school so I have no reason to kiss their behinds. With that said, they're playing really good FCS football lately.

I agree with the ability to recruit, but the academic requirements would preclude the Ivies from being on par with the ACC, etc. Just not enough really smart great athletes.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I agree with the ability to recruit, but the academic requirements would preclude the Ivies from being on par with the ACC, etc. Just not enough really smart great athletes.

I said AAC, not ACC. Meaning a quality G5 conference.

Although the AAC could legitimately be better this season. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I guess I am slow, the last thing I would think would be that people would actually do that.I don't think they would actually do that either in fact a few years ago I calculated the votes they came out in the normal Selection Sunday Poll and then I recalculated just the votes that came in after that since I always open the voting back up for those people that want to try and achieve pull perfection even though the poll closed early that week.

People did not appear to change votes based on selection committee's choices. The ranking was identical in order of top 25 once I added the votes after the Selection Show in on Monday morning

But that is not what is at issue here. It is the appearance that somebody could have changed their ballot. So at that point what good would it be to say that the AGS Poll is a good predictor? For one thing you wouldn't be predicting because it would come out after the fact and secondly people would be able to say of course it's a good predictor when it comes out after the Selection Committee puts out their brackets.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Daytripper]

I said AAC, not ACC. Meaning a quality G5 conference.

Although the AAC could legitimately be better this season. :D

OOPS! My bad. Okay, I could get on board with AAC and other G5. But they still would have to figure out the postseason problem. They don't participate in the playoffs in the FCS. So, would they play in a bowl game?

[Catbooster]

Flame away losers. :D

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 11:26:05

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Princeton Tigers
12: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Dartmouth Big Green
15: Florida A&M Rattlers
16: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Wofford Terriers
20: New Hampshire Wildcats
21: Austin Peay Governors
22: Towson Tigers
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Southern Illinois Salukis
25: Monmouth Hawks

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Monmouth Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Well, I'm not sure it's flame-worthy, but since you asked...
Your #18 team (MSU) beat your #12 team (SEMO). They also played your #5 team (Sac State) much closer than your #6 team (UM) did. There are reasonable arguments for teams improving/declining over the course of the season, match-ups, home vs away, AGS, etc. but i think you've got MSU kinda low, considering your other picks. Of course, you seem to put an inordinate amount of weight on how teams play against NDSU and UND...xcoffeex

[Catbooster]

I have little doubt it would happen because it happens in between the Selection Sunday poll and the final poll. Last year for example the AGS consensus had Indiana St and Furman at #20 and #22, respectively, on the Selection Sunday poll which would've had them both comfortably in the field if the committee followed the AGS consensus. As we all know they were left out and then in the final poll Indiana St fell 4 spots to #24 and Furman fell 5 spots to #27 despite neither playing a game between poll releases (and there were plenty of middling teams in that 20-25 range that stunk it up in the playoffs like Stony Brook, Elon, and Towson).
It wouldn't necessarily even be intentional. If someone is checking out the selections, it would be easy to be influenced. Similar to why we don't let voters post their polls before the results are posted.

Plus the appearance thing Ursus mentioned.

[caribbeanhen]

The Ivy League is better than the NEC. The Ivy League is imo the 3rd or 4th best conference in FCS.

All this is really irrelevant. CCSU is headed to the playoffs and will likely play the PL Champ or a middling CAA team. Embrace the opportunity...

Agree on All

[KPSUL]

If UNI played either teams schedule they are undefeated

What's your point?

UNI would find a way to screw up one or two games every season no matter who they played.

[cx500d]

UNI would find a way to Farley up one or two games every season no matter who they played.

fyp

[aceinthehole]

I base my judgement soley on watching the teams play. Have to factor in recruiting and coaching too.

Anyway, you come across as such bitter person. Your tactic of almost always tearing others down instead of accentuating CCSU's positives is a failure. I'm just happy you've redirected your angst from the PL to the Ivy League. xcoffeex

Not bitter at all, but thanks, you come across as very arrogant. I don't buy into judgments and statements that you provide without any support or logic.

So are all facts that question your assumptions "irrelevant?"

[BisonFan02]

The Ivy is the 3rd or 4th best FCS conference? Wait.....what did I miss?

-MVFC
-CAA
-Big Sky

There's three for sure. Watching NDSU play any of those schools would be like a public execution. How would you stack the Ivy against the PL even?

[cx500d]

The Ivy is the 3rd or 4th best FCS conference? Wait.....what did I miss?

-MVFC
-CAA
-Big Sky

There's three for sure. Watching NDSU play any of those schools would be like a public execution. How would you stack the Ivy against the PL even?
Last I saw, this vaunted Harvard team lost to a pioneer team.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Ivy is the 3rd or 4th best FCS conference? Wait.....what did I miss?

-MVFC
-CAA
-Big Sky

There's three for sure. Watching NDSU play any of those schools would be like a public execution. How would you stack the Ivy against the PL even?

NDSU is not the barometer. NDSU destroys 99% of FCS. After the top 5 or so teams the best team in the IL is right there this year and last.

The IL is currently much better than the PL right now. Not even in the same stratosphere. Colgate was legit last year though. Although I do think Princeton had a higher ceiling given their more explosive offense.

[Daytripper]

The Ivy is the 3rd or 4th best FCS conference? Wait.....what did I miss?

-MVFC
-CAA
-Big Sky
-Southland

There's three for sure. Watching NDSU play any of those schools would be like a public execution. How would you stack the Ivy against the PL even?

Just helping.

[POD Knows]

Well, I'm not sure it's flame-worthy, but since you asked...
Your #18 team (MSU) beat your #12 team (SEMO). They also played your #5 team (Sac State) much closer than your #6 team (UM) did. There are reasonable arguments for teams improving/declining over the course of the season, match-ups, home vs away, AGS, etc. but i think you've got MSU kinda low, considering your other picks. Of course, you seem to put an inordinate amount of weight on how teams play against NDSU and UND...xcoffeexOK, so using your logic, how can MSU be ahead of UND in the AGS poll? Didn't they lose to them??? Honestly, in this poll, anybody after 8 is a crap shot. I am not impressed with MSU, I didn't really think they were much good last year and was proven right with their lackluster performance in the playoffs but I sort of jumped on the bandwagon this year but when it gets right down to it, SEMO is your only good win and it was at home, you barely beat a really ****ty WIU team and had to go to overtime to beat Cal Poly, MSU's resume is not that good and 18 sounds about right but I probably do have SEMO too high in my poll. I think this year has been about as tough as it gets with the polls, I was really grinding on this one. I dropped KSU completely out of my poll which was probably pretty harsh but I should not have had them as high as they were in my polls, I had them in the top ten basically because of past history and the fact that they were winning, they were beating stiffs but they were winning.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I get your point and it has merit, still, you did lose to UND.:D

[Bison56]

Last I saw, this vaunted Harvard team lost to a pioneer team.

Those Hahvuhd boys arent very impressive.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Last I saw, this vaunted Harvard team lost to a pioneer team.

Vaunted Harvard team? Likely the 4th best team in the IL after Dartmouth, Princeton and Yale. The Crimson nearly took out Dartmouth in Cambridge; but they didn't. Besides, San Diego is no joke imo. I had the Toreros 18th this week. I think they can win their first playoff game assuming they don't end up playing one of the top 2-3 teams that don't get a bye.

[cx500d]

Vaunted Harvard team? Likely the 4th best team in the IL after Dartmouth, Princeton and Yale. The Crimson nearly took out Dartmouth in Cambridge; but they didn't. Besides, San Diego is no joke imo. I had the Toreros 18th this week. I think they can win their first playoff game assuming they don't end up playing one of the top 2-3 teams that don't get a bye.
they almost beat Princeton and almost beat Dartmouth, so they have to be good.

[BisonFan02]

Just helping.

Toss the SoCoN on there too most years.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

they almost beat Princeton and almost beat Dartmouth, so they have to be good.

Harvard is solid no question. Definitely capable of pulling an upset against a really good team. However, they're not Top 25 good. Yale is the third team in the IL worthy of consideration. I have them unranked currently but should the Eli finish the year 9-1/8-2 they'll find their way in.

[BisonFan02]

Vaunted Harvard team? Likely the 4th best team in the IL after Dartmouth, Princeton and Yale. The Crimson nearly took out Dartmouth in Cambridge; but they didn't. Besides, San Diego is no joke imo. I had the Toreros 18th this week. I think they can win their first playoff game assuming they don't end up playing one of the top 2-3 teams that don't get a bye.

The Ivy, at best, is a 1 bid league most years.....which doesn't put them in the range of conferences with multiple playoff caliber teams year in and year out.......any argument outside of that is just silly.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Just helping.

At the moment, Sagarin has IVY 4th in FCS, JUST BARELY ahead of the Southland. Immediately behind them are the SoCon and OVC. Then there is a VERRRYYYY steep drop-off to the PL, Big South and NEC.

[clenz]

Vaunted Harvard team? Likely the 4th best team in the IL after Dartmouth, Princeton and Yale. The Crimson nearly took out Dartmouth in Cambridge; but they didn't. Besides, San Diego is no joke imo. I had the Toreros 18th this week. I think they can win their first playoff game assuming they don't end up playing one of the top 2-3 teams that don't get a bye.Would the 4th beat MVFC team lose to that PFL team?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[NY Crusader 2010]

Harvard is solid no question. Definitely capable of pulling an upset against a really good team. However, they're not Top 25 good. Yale is the third team in the IL worthy of consideration. I have them unranked currently but should the Eli finish the year 9-1/8-2 they'll find their way in.

Harvard might be "Top 25 good" talent-wise. But they don't have to win games against good teams to deserve a ranking. They played San Diego, they LOST. They played Princeton, they LOST, they played Dartmouth, they LOST. The 7th place team in the MVC is probably "Top 25 good" as well but at some point you are what your record says you are.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Ivy, at best, is a 1 bid league most years.....which doesn't put them in the range of conferences with multiple playoff caliber teams year in and year out.......any argument outside of that is just silly.

I'll be silly!

I absolutely think they would be a two bid league in watered down 24 team playoff when your scraping the bottom for worthy teams. A 8 or 9 win Ivy League team would be a lock 9/10 years. The NCAA would love to have the Ivies in their national playoff for a number of reasons; as would ESPN. Most of the Ancient Eighters would certainly put in healthy bids to host so they wouldn't be traveling if they win.

- - - Updated - - -


Would the 4th beat MVFC team lose to that PFL team?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I definitely it's think possible this year. I really think there's a big dropoff after the Top 8 or so where teams have fairly high ceilings and a middling floor. Like I said, I have San Diego 18th this week. I definitely think they're capable of beating a 3rd or 4th place team from a power conference.

[cx500d]

Harvard might be "Top 25 good" talent-wise. But they don't have to win games against good teams to deserve a ranking. They played San Diego, they LOST. They played Princeton, they LOST, they played Dartmouth, they LOST. The 7th place team in the MVC is probably "Top 25 good" as well but at some point you are what your record says you are.
Based on the transitive theory, Princeton and Dartmouth lose to the worst team in the big fluffy

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Harvard might be "Top 25 good" talent-wise. But they don't have to win games against good teams to deserve a ranking. They played San Diego, they LOST. They played Princeton, they LOST, they played Dartmouth, they LOST. The 7th place team in the MVC is probably "Top 25 good" as well but at some point you are what your record says you are.

Absolutely! Harvard is good enough to be right there but can't get over the hump against better competition. Dangerous team but ultimately more top 40 than Top 25 due to the end results.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Another garbage statement. It is a 8-team, 10-game insular group of teams that are living off former reputations.

No one is really suggesting there aren't some very good Ivy teams, but to suggest that Princeton could beat a CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, or SoCon team is an absurd statement, when they haven't done it in almost 40 years.

FACT: Princeton has 2 wins outside of the Ivy/PL/PFL since 1980.

FACT: Since 1981 Princeton is a combined 0-8 in their home/home deals against The Citadel, Delaware, Hampton, and William & Mary.

To be fair, Princeton also SUCKED until about 2015. Aside from maybe one season where there was a three-way tie between HYP, they were never a factor in the league. You really can't try to draw a comparison to how they did out of conference for most of the past thirty years versus how they would do now.

Although the opportunities have been somewhat far and in-between, Ivy League teams have proven they can beat quality FCS competition. Yale has done the most to strengthen the Ivy brand within FCS circles lately. Princeton and Harvard, not so much.

[NY Crusader 2010]

OOPS! My bad. Okay, I could get on board with AAC and other G5. But they still would have to figure out the postseason problem. They don't participate in the playoffs in the FCS. So, would they play in a bowl game?

The Ivy post-season ban goes back well before they moved down to I-AA in 1983. In fact, the last Ivy team to finish in the AP Top 20 was Dartmouth in 1970 and they could not go to a bowl game. Brown alum Joe Paterno tried to arrange a bowl match-up between Penn State and Dartmouth to no avail.

But I think the Ivy presidents would be MORE LIKELY to drop the postseason ban for a bowl game against Navy, Northwestern Vanderbilt than for the FCS playoffs. My guess is another 25 years goes by and nothing changes. Same 10-game schedules, no playoffs, etc.

[aceinthehole]

To be fair, Princeton also SUCKED until about 2015. Aside from maybe one season where there was a three-way tie between HYP, they were never a factor in the league. You really can't try to draw a comparison to how they did out of conference for most of the past thirty years versus how they would do now.

Although the opportunities have been somewhat far and in-between, Ivy League teams have proven they can beat quality FCS competition. Yale has done the most to strengthen the Ivy brand within FCS circles lately. Princeton and Harvard, not so much.

Agreed. But that isn't the argument some are making.

On one hand you have someone who suggests that the Ivys are an elite FCS conference, on the verge of FBS status. Unquestionable talent and coaching based on the "eye test" and decades of following the Ancient Eight.

Yes, the Ivy produces some quality teams each season, without a doubt. But some want to put them on a pedestal and suggest that they are National Championship-caliber teams without playing outside of their comfort zone for decades.

Yale has been the most aggressive schedule and have done well. The others have a lot of catching up to do. And the league as a whole will continued to be questioned for playing just 10 games, avoiding CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon opponents, and the declaring themselves ineligible for playoffs.

[NY Crusader 2010]

You only watch them play themselves. I don't see how you can make a cogent argument when there are few/no games against other conferences. UCA and Sam Houston played a great game the other night. That game alone is no basis to assume they would match up well against NDSU or Weber... or Dartmouth or Princeton.

Every Ivy League team plays three out-of-conference games every year.

[Bisonator]

Every Ivy League team plays three out-of-conference games every year.
Yeah but 90% of those games are against the PL. Congrats to the Ivies for being the better of the worst.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Agreed. But that isn't the argument some are making.

On one hand you have someone who suggests that the Ivys are an elite FCS conference, on the verge of FBS status. Unquestionable talent and coaching based on the "eye test" and decades of following the Ancient Eight.

Yes, the Ivy produces some quality teams each season, without a doubt. But some want to put them on a pedestal and suggest that they are National Championship-caliber teams without playing outside of their comfort zone for decades.

Yale has been the most aggressive schedule and have done well. The others have a lot of catching up to do. And the league as a whole will continued to be questioned for playing just 10 games, avoiding CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon opponents, and the declaring themselves ineligible for playoffs.

Call it faith, belief whatever. I'm a peace with my conviction that the best of in the IL recently/currently are on par with the best in FCS. Maybe not the 1 or 2% but basically everyone else. I'm also starting to think CCSU might be capable of that too. And I really have no concrete evidence to support that either based on history.

I still remember similar conversations regarding the Holy Cross teams of the late 80's, early 90's. They played a little more adventurous schedule but it was still fairly regional with little to no "branching out" against the true 1-AA powers of the time. I don't care who the Crusaders were playing; they were legit. It's a shame they never got to play an Erk Russell GSU team or the great Northeast Louisiana squad of that era.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah but 90% of those games are against the PL. Congrats to the Ivies for being the better of the worst.

Well, we were created to be their little brother.

With an unfulfilled promise of an end-of-season bowl game. Thank God we only drank the no-playoff Kool-Aid for a few years. A shame for HC87 that those were the years that Holy Cross would have been a major force in the division.

And believe it or not, up until the recent run the latter part of this decade where the Ivy League as a whole has gotten much stronger, the PL actually held its own a lot of years head-to-head. For such a long time, the Ivy League was Harvard, Penn, maybe Yale and a bunch of bad football teams with outstanding academics.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Call it faith, belief whatever. I'm a peace with my conviction that the best of in the IL recently/currently are on par with the best in FCS. Maybe not the 1 or 2% but basically everyone else. I'm also starting to think CCSU might be capable of that too. And I really have no concrete evidence to support that either based on history.

I still remember similar conversations regarding the Holy Cross teams of the late 80's, early 90's. They played a little more adventurous schedule but it was still fairly regional with little to no "branching out" against the true 1-AA powers of the time. I don't care who the Crusaders were playing; they were legit. It's a shame they never got to play an Erk Russell GSU team or the great Northeast Louisiana squad of that era.

The computer ratings would support your argument and currently indexes the Ivy League slightly higher than AGS as a whole. Sagarin has Dartmouth at #7 and Princeton at #9 as of today compared to 12 and 13 in AGS. Probably a function of a handful of posters who just punt the Ivy League as a whole in their polls out of principle. Specifically relating to both Dartmouth and Princeton this year, I personally would probably err on the side of ranking them more in the 10-15 range just because there's no real proof out there that they can beat the top, top teams. I know the players don't make the schedules or decide on playoff participation but at some point you have to beat the best to be considered the best.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Well, we were created to be their little brother.

With an unfulfilled promise of an end-of-season bowl game. Thank God we only drank the no-playoff Kool-Aid for a few years. A shame for HC87 that those were the years that Holy Cross would have been a major force in the division.

And believe it or not, up until the recent run the latter part of this decade where the Ivy League as a whole has gotten much stronger, the PL actually held its own a lot of years head-to-head. For such a long time, the Ivy League was Harvard, Penn, maybe Yale and a bunch of bad football teams with outstanding academics.

When Lehigh has been Top 25 good they've traditionally kicked the Ivies ass's. They had a stretch from 98 through 2005 when they went 26'ish and 2 against the Ivies. I know without question they only lost two games against the Ivies during the stretch. The two "L's" came against Top 25 Penn teams in '02 and '04. Lehigh entered the 2002 game ranked #3 in the TSN Top 25 poll. The 2004 Lehigh team lost 14-13 to eventual national champion JMU in the playoffs. From 2010 through 13 Lehigh went undefeated against the Ivies. In 2016 they easily beat 7-3 Penn and an 8-2 Princeton squad enroute to a 9-3 season. Since then the Princeton and Dartmouth have REALLY taken off. Yale started making noise around 2015 when they beat Cal Poly. The Eli are still an enigma though. They're capable of beating a Top 20 CAA team and losing to Marist in back-2-back weeks.

[RabidRabbit]

Agree about KSU, I dropped them completely this week. They don't have a single good win to their name.I agreed to this also. Blown out at home, by their only legit Big South competitor. No quality wins. 2 below FCS level games. Yep stone dropped.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[NY Crusader 2010]

LU - the Penn teams in the early 2000's were legitimately VERY good. Lehigh, Penn and Harvard could've gone up against anyone in the division that year.

Fordham was another PL team that routinely destroyed the Ivy for a couple of years during their run in 2013-2014. If I recall they took Yale and Penn to the woodshed in back-to-back years. Holy Cross also had some success against Harvard during the early Gilmore years. Beat them in 2007, 2009 and 2011, all years in which they won the Ivy. I think two of those 3 years we were their only loss. In 2008, we blew a 24-12 late 4th quarter lead at Harvard Stadium on a Friday night so we really could have beaten them 3 straight years. We still haven't won in Harvard Stadium since 2000.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

LU - the Penn teams in the early 2000's were legitimately VERY good. Lehigh, Penn and Harvard could've gone up against anyone in the division that year.

Fordham was another PL team that routinely destroyed the Ivy for a couple of years during their run in 2013-2014. If I recall they took Yale and Penn to the woodshed in back-to-back years. Holy Cross also had some success against Harvard during the early Gilmore years. Beat them in 2007, 2009 and 2011, all years in which they won the Ivy. I think two of those 3 years we were their only loss. In 2008, we blew a 24-12 late 4th quarter lead at Harvard Stadium on a Friday night so we really could have beaten them 3 straight years. We still haven't won in Harvard Stadium since 2000.

I think an argument could be made that 1987 Holy Cross, 2004 Harvard and 2018 Princeton are the 3 greatest teams that never got a chance to make a run at a national title. There might have been a Grambling/SWAC team in there too but my memory isn't THAT good. The before mentioned three teams really stand out.

[POD Knows]

I think an argument could be made that 1987 Holy Cross, 2004 Harvard and 2018 Princeton are the 3 greatest teams that never got a chance to make a run at a national title. There might have been a Grambling/SWAC team in there too but my memory isn't THAT good. The before mentioned three teams really stand out.
BS. 2007 Bison. They were 10-1 with two FBS wins. The 2006 team also had a 10-1 record with an FBS win and a one point loss to the Minnesota Goofers in a game the Bison dominated. Discussion over.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 16:02:27

Your vote is listed below (previous week's rank in parentheses).

1: North Dakota State Bison (1)
2: James Madison Dukes (2)
3: Weber State Wildcats (4)
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (5)
5: Northern Iowa Panthers (7)
6: Sac State Hornets (3)
7: Montana Grizzlies (6)
8: Furman Paladins (8)
9: Central Arkansas Bears (13)
10: Dartmouth Big Green (10)
11: Monmouth Hawks (NR)
12: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (12)
13: Princeton Tigers (15)
14: Austin Peay Governors (NR)
15: Illinois State Redbirds (9)
16: Florida A&M Rattlers (19)
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (17)
18: Montana State Bobcats (18)
19: North Carolina A&T Aggies (20)
20: Southern Illinois Salukis (NR)
21: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks (21)
22: Sam Houston State Bearkats (22)
23: New Hampshire Wildcats (NR)
24: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils (24)
25: Nicholls State Colonels (25)

The most significant win: Monmouth Hawks
The most significant loss: Stony Brook Seawolves
Which conference does your team play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Dropped from poll: Kennesaw State Owls (11), Villanova Wildcats (14), Stony Brook Seawolves (16), Wofford Terriers (23)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

BS. 2007 Bison. They were 10-1 with two FBS wins. The 2006 team also had a 10-1 record with an FBS win and a one point loss to the Minnesota Goofers in a game the Bison dominated. Discussion over.

They were a transitional 1-AA/FCS team. I get your point but the reason they were ineligible was different.

Even so, I still would put those teams up there with that Bison team. Especially '87 HC and last year's Princeton team. 1987 HC is one of the most dominant teams ever and had a Heisman Finalist.

[Kemo]

Hello Kemo,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/4/2019 1:56:17

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sac State Hornets
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Furman Paladins
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Florida A&M Rattlers
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Princeton Tigers
17: Dartmouth Big Green
18: Monmouth Hawks
19: Southern Illinois Salukis
20: Towson Tigers
21: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
22: New Hampshire Wildcats
23: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: The Citadel Bulldogs

Kemo

The Most Significant Win: New Hampshire Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: Stony Brook Seawolves
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Catbooster]

OK, so using your logic, how can MSU be ahead of UND in the AGS poll? Didn't they lose to them??? Honestly, in this poll, anybody after 8 is a crap shot. I am not impressed with MSU, I didn't really think they were much good last year and was proven right with their lackluster performance in the playoffs but I sort of jumped on the bandwagon this year but when it gets right down to it, SEMO is your only good win and it was at home, you barely beat a really ****ty WIU team and had to go to overtime to beat Cal Poly, MSU's resume is not that good and 18 sounds about right but I probably do have SEMO too high in my poll. I think this year has been about as tough as it gets with the polls, I was really grinding on this one. I dropped KSU completely out of my poll which was probably pretty harsh but I should not have had them as high as they were in my polls, I had them in the top ten basically because of past history and the fact that they were winning, they were beating stiffs but they were winning.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I get your point and it has merit, still, you did lose to UND.:D

Hmmm....Not sure how you got the idea that's my logic. I never said that MSU should be above any particular team. I simply pointed out a couple data points that support my opinion that you may have MSU a little low. I specifically said there are reasonable counter-arguments. Last season is over; Let it go. We're about 3/4 of the way through a new season. Last season's results shouldn't matter at this point.

MSU doesn't have a lot of good wins, but you could say that about every team in the poll after the top 5 or so. I agree with you - this year has been hard to rank. Considering how far into the season we are, there's still a ton of questions. I dropped KSU out too, although I didn't have them in my top 10.

I'm not really too concerned about MSU's current ranking. It's good enough that if we win out we'll be in good shape at 9-3, which would include a win over a top 10 team (assuming UM stays up there). Depending on the match-ups, we may win a few games in the playoffs. If we win 2 out of 3, I assume we'll make the playoffs but hard to think we'd be favored in any games after the first (if then, depending on match-ups). If we only get to 7-5, we might not make the playoffs and I don't think we'd deserve to - maybe if there's total chaos among all of the bubble teams.

Whatever happens, it should be fun to watch. Gotta love being in a division that has playoffs. xthumbsupx

[ElCid]

Even so, I still would put those teams up there with that Bison team. Especially '87 HC and last year's Princeton team. 1987 HC is one of the most dominant teams ever and had a Heisman Finalist.

I remember HC that year. They dominated everyone they played. Only problem I have is their schedule. The highest team they beat was (Massey) #12, then #32 and up. They had SOS ranked #32 in FCS and mind you, there were only 88 1AA/FCS teams that year. They were a great team, but not a lot of meat on schedule. They would have made a lot of noise and maybe won, but comparing is hard for sure. If I compare them to something recent, I think of Colgate last year. Dominating performance against a so-so schedule, not bad, but not great. But when it came to the playoffs, only made a little noise. I'm not saying they are exact, just similar.

I also remember the Heisman candidate. Didn't he play on D "sometimes" as well? He was good, but I think that was the "establishment" throwing their final bone at the 1AA/FCS teams.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Steve McNair was the final "bone".

[Terry2889]

Here's my shot at it this week:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Sacramento State Hornets
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Northern Iowa Panthers
8: Central Arkansas Bears

<intentionally putting a space here because I think there's that big of a gap between #8 and #9 right now>

9: Furman Paladins
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Monmouth Hawks
12: Dartmouth Big Green
13: Princeton Tigers
14: New Hampshire Wildcats
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Sam Houston State Bearkats
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Southern Illinois Salukis
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: UT Martin Skyhawks


There's not a big gap between any Southland team and any other FCS school in the nation :D

[POD Knows]

They were a transitional 1-AA/FCS team. I get your point but the reason they were ineligible was different.

Even so, I still would put those teams up there with that Bison team. Especially '87 HC and last year's Princeton team. 1987 HC is one of the most dominant teams ever and had a Heisman Finalist.
Yep. I hear you. I have to admit to ignorance of the 87 HC team. I did have Princeton in my poll last year and they were pretty good. The 2007 Bison team could have probably won the Natty that year. I need to look at the history of that HC. Also, I needed to get ahead of the argument and make sure that the Bison are included in every conversation. That is what we do.

[ElCid]

Steve McNair was the final "bone".

You're right. One of the last bones.

[caribbeanhen]

Yep. I hear you. I have to admit to ignorance of the 87 HC team. I did have Princeton in my poll last year and they were pretty good. The 2007 Bison team could have probably won the Natty that year. I need to look at the history of that HC. Also, I needed to get ahead of the argument and make sure that the Bison are included in every conversation. That is what we do.

really, I thought I remember selling Princeton to you all of last year because they were not worthy of your vote :D

[Professor Chaos]

really, I thought I remember selling Princeton to you all of last year because they were not worthy of your vote :D
It must've worked since Princeton got up to #10 in the AGS consensus in week 12 which was tied for the highest ranking ever for an Ivy League team in the AGS Poll. Seems likely that the winner of the Princeton/Dartmouth game this week will set a new high water mark for the conference in the AGS Poll when it comes out next Monday.

[caribbeanhen]

It must've worked since Princeton got up to #10 in the AGS consensus in week 12 which was tied for the highest ranking ever for an Ivy League team in the AGS Poll. Seems likely that the winner of the Princeton/Dartmouth game this week will set a new high water mark for the conference in the AGS Poll when it comes out next Monday.

In the end it worked out, but change does not happen fast with this whole ranking the Ivies mantra especially out on the amber waves of grain...

[caribbeanhen]

I have been quick to criticize others so ....

Hello caribbeanhen,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 14:39:17

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Northern Iowa Panthers
6: Sac State Hornets
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Dartmouth Big Green
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Furman Paladins
12: Princeton Tigers
13: Montana State Bobcats
14: North Carolina A&T Aggies
15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
17: Florida A&M Rattlers
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Yale Bulldogs
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: The Citadel Bulldogs
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Monmouth Hawks
25: San Diego Toreros

caribbeanhen

The Most Significant Win: Monmouth Hawks
The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association

[Gil Dobie]

FAMU #1 in the MEAC, behind #2 in the MEAC that they just beat.

[WrenFGun]

I have been quick to criticize others so .... Hello caribbeanhen, We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 11/3/2019 14:39:17 Your vote is listed below. 1: North Dakota State Bison 2: James Madison Dukes 3: Weber State Wildcats 4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits 5: Northern Iowa Panthers 6: Sac State Hornets 7: Montana Grizzlies 8: Dartmouth Big Green 9: Central Arkansas Bears 10: Illinois State Redbirds 11: Furman Paladins 12: Princeton Tigers 13: Montana State Bobcats 14: North Carolina A&T Aggies 15: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils 16: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks 17: Florida A&M Rattlers 18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks 19: Villanova Wildcats 20: Yale Bulldogs 21: Southern Illinois Salukis 22: The Citadel Bulldogs 23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks 24: Monmouth Hawks 25: San Diego Toreros caribbeanhen The Most Significant Win: Monmouth Hawks The Most Significant Loss: Kennesaw State Owls Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association I just don't get Villanova above UNH; look at the schedules. UNH has beaten better opponents (including Stony Brook on the road where Villanova lost to them at home). They both have three losses. Holy Cross is the worst of the bunch, but at the same time, UNH has only two FCS losses compared to three for Nova. Plus we beat them. Just makes no sense.

[uni88]

Yep. I hear you. I have to admit to ignorance of the 87 HC team. I did have Princeton in my poll last year and they were pretty good. The 2007 Bison team could have probably won the Natty that year. I need to look at the history of that HC. Also, I needed to get ahead of the argument and make sure that the Bison are included in every conversation. That is what we do.

Could have probably? Could have - yes, probably - I'm not so sure. UNI, McNeese & Montana were undefeated while SIU's one loss was better than NDSU's so the bison would not have been seeded. FCS had some damn good teams in 2007. Any of the seeds plus Appalachian State, Delaware, EWU, JMU, Richmond, UNH, UMass & Wofford had the potential to end the bison's season. There is no way to no for sure but I don't think NDSU makes the championship much less wins it.

[Grizalltheway]

Could have probably? Could have - yes, probably - I'm not so sure. UNI, McNeese & Montana were undefeated while SIU's one loss was better than NDSU's so the bison would not have been seeded. FCS had some damn good teams in 2007. Any of the seeds plus Appalachian State, Delaware, EWU, JMU, Richmond, UNH, UMass & Wofford had the potential to end the bison's season. There is no way to no for sure but I don't think NDSU makes the championship much less wins it.
They were, but they lost to Wofford in the first round on a missed Dan Carpenter FG as time expired. Thanks for the reminder.

[Gil Dobie]

Could have probably? Could have - yes, probably - I'm not so sure. UNI, McNeese & Montana were undefeated while SIU's one loss was better than NDSU's so the bison would not have been seeded. FCS had some damn good teams in 2007. Any of the seeds plus Appalachian State, Delaware, EWU, JMU, Richmond, UNH, UMass & Wofford had the potential to end the bison's season. There is no way to no for sure but I don't think NDSU makes the championship much less wins it.

Like you said, you never know. NDSU was #2 in 2006 and #4 in 2007 Sagarin rankings for I-AA, for whatever that means.

[Sader87]

The one chink in the armor as it were for HC in 1987 is that it was the 1st year we didn't play BC and some of the OOC teams we played that year were down.Even still, HC dominated every PL team and OOC foe (Army, Dartmouth, Brown, Harvard, UMass, William&Mary and Villanova) that year...every game literally ovah at halftime.

Different world, but they were clearly one of the best teams evah to not participate in the 1-AA playoffs.

[uni88]

They were, but they lost to Wofford in the first round on a missed Dan Carpenter FG as time expired. Thanks for the reminder.

I feel your pain. That 2007 UNI team might have been their best ever and they were upset by Frosted Joe Flacco & Delaware at home in the 2nd round. If we played that game 10 times, I think UNI wins at least 7 of them.

[clenz]

I feel your pain. That 2007 UNI team might have been their best ever and they were upset by Frosted Joe Flacco & Delaware at home in the 2nd round. If we played that game 10 times, I think UNI wins at least 7 of them.
God damn weeble wobble that game.

The number of times NFL DL/LBs hit him blindside full speed and he just bounced off only to complete at 15 yard pass on 3rd and 14.5 is ****ing stupid.

[uni88]

Like you said, you never know. NDSU was #2 in 2006 and #4 in 2007 Sagarin rankings for I-AA, for whatever that means.

In 2007, SIU had one loss to a #1 UNI team with an 11-0 regular season record by 6 on the road, NDSU had one lose to an SDSU team with a 7-4 record by 5 on the road. UNI beat that SDSU team by 14 on the road. I think SIU would have earned the seed over NDSU. I'm not saying that NDSU wouldn't have had a chance but they would not have been favored and they would have had to play on the road.

In 2006, maybe they get the #4 seed over YSU but the bisons best wins were over Cal Poly and SDSU so it isn't a sure thing. And there were a number of good teams that could have beaten them that year as well.

It's revisionist history to think that only the transition rules kept them from an early start to their dynasty.

[Reign of Terrier]

They were, but they lost to Wofford in the first round on a missed Dan Carpenter FG as time expired. Thanks for the reminder.


I feel your pain. That 2007 UNI team might have been their best ever and they were upset by Frosted Joe Flacco & Delaware at home in the 2nd round. If we played that game 10 times, I think UNI wins at least 7 of them.

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not but the FCS between 2007-2010 was really at its peak. Every year there were 8-12 teams that probably could have won the dang thing on any given saturday. Wofford beat Montana and App State but lost to Elon and Georgia southern. Richmond and App state had a nice 3 game series in the playoffs. App State vs JMU twice (once in the playoffs, then in the regular season the next year).

The game was a little different then (the real innovations of the spread were being developed and defenses hadn't caught on), but there was genuine parity. I think we're about to see a resurgence, even if it's a couple years away.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I feel your pain. That 2007 UNI team might have been their best ever and they were upset by Frosted Joe Flacco & Delaware at home in the 2nd round. If we played that game 10 times, I think UNI wins at least 7 of them.


......5....AN' AH'M BEIN' KIND.......BRAWK!

[Gil Dobie]

In 2007, SIU had one loss to a #1 UNI team with an 11-0 regular season record by 6 on the road, NDSU had one lose to an SDSU team with a 7-4 record by 5 on the road. UNI beat that SDSU team by 14 on the road. I think SIU would have earned the seed over NDSU. I'm not saying that NDSU wouldn't have had a chance but they would not have been favored and they would have had to play on the road.

In 2006, maybe they get the #4 seed over YSU but the bisons best wins were over Cal Poly and SDSU so it isn't a sure thing. And there were a number of good teams that could have beaten them that year as well.

It's revisionist history to think that only the transition rules kept them from an early start to their dynasty.

Like I said, FWIW, 2007 Bison did beat the MAC champion that had Antonio Brown and JJ Watt on the team, Minnesota, Sam Houston ranked at the time, and WIU ranked at the time they played. Dang bunnies ruined a perfect season. I do remember at the time I thought they would have made the playoffs, not so sure about a seed.

[HootyHoo]

Hahahaha. The Owls are still ranked ahead of Monmouth. Thats great. It's obvious the voters realize that the prestigious Kennesaw State University has a superior pedigree over the lowly Hawks. I salute the voters that realize this.

[abc123]

Like I said, FWIW, 2007 Bison did beat the MAC champion that had Antonio Brown and JJ Watt on the team, Minnesota, Sam Houston ranked at the time, and WIU ranked at the time they played. Dang bunnies ruined a perfect season. I do remember at the time I thought they would have made the playoffs, not so sure about a seed.

The win against CMU was a good win, but I've never got the the adding the details about Brown and Watt being on the team like that makes it all the more better, because at the time, it didn't. Both were true freshman. Brown was still transitioning from a QB in high school to a WR in college and did end up having a good season with 100+ catches. He went for 9 /54 /1 against NDSU. JJ Watt was playing tight end and didn't even register a catch in the game, he managed a whopping 8 on the whole season. He didn't even play defense in college until 2 years later at Wisconsin. Obviously he ended up being a stud, 1st round pick but he was a nobody at CMU. Brown was a solid player but was nowhere near a sure thing to be a star, not getting picked until the 6th round and 20-something WR overall after his junior year.

[clenz]

The win against CMU was a good win, but I've never got the the adding the details about Brown and Watt being on the team like that makes it all the more better, because at the time, it didn't. Both were true freshman. Brown was still transitioning from a QB in high school to a WR in college and did end up having a good season with 100+ catches. He went for 9 /54 /1 against NDSU. JJ Watt was playing tight end and didn't even register a catch in the game, he managed a whopping 8 on the whole season. He didn't even play defense in college until 2 years later at Wisconsin. Obviously he ended up being a stud, 1st round pick but he was a nobody at CMU. Brown was a solid player but was nowhere near a sure thing to be a star, not getting picked until the 6th round and 20-something WR overall after his junior year.
shock value to make the point seem bigger

[Daytripper]

This thread sure has drifted since I was here last....xcoffeex

[Gil Dobie]

shock value to make the point seem bigger

I'm the one that stated it and I consider it interesting trivia, unless you are like my wife and she calls it useless triva.

[MSUBobcat]

The win against CMU was a good win, but I've never got the the adding the details about Brown and Watt being on the team like that makes it all the more better, because at the time, it didn't. Both were true freshman. Brown was still transitioning from a QB in high school to a WR in college and did end up having a good season with 100+ catches. He went for 9 /54 /1 against NDSU. JJ Watt was playing tight end and didn't even register a catch in the game, he managed a whopping 8 on the whole season. He didn't even play defense in college until 2 years later at Wisconsin. Obviously he ended up being a stud, 1st round pick but he was a nobody at CMU. Brown was a solid player but was nowhere near a sure thing to be a star, not getting picked until the 6th round and 20-something WR overall after his junior year.

Beat me to it.....

[MSUBobcat]

Hahahaha. The Owls are still ranked ahead of Monmouth. Thats great. It's obvious the voters realize that the prestigious Kennesaw State University has a superior pedigree over the lowly Hawks. I salute the voters that realize this.

You still here??? Figured after getting beat like a redheaded step-child and bounced out of the playoffs, you'd at least take the rest of the year off...xcoffeex

[Gil Dobie]

The win against CMU was a good win, but I've never got the the adding the details about Brown and Watt being on the team like that makes it all the more better, because at the time, it didn't. Both were true freshman. Brown was still transitioning from a QB in high school to a WR in college and did end up having a good season with 100+ catches. He went for 9 /54 /1 against NDSU. JJ Watt was playing tight end and didn't even register a catch in the game, he managed a whopping 8 on the whole season. He didn't even play defense in college until 2 years later at Wisconsin. Obviously he ended up being a stud, 1st round pick but he was a nobody at CMU. Brown was a solid player but was nowhere near a sure thing to be a star, not getting picked until the 6th round and 20-something WR overall after his junior year.

Then they won the MAC playoff championship, and barely lost their bowl game to Purdue. Which is a better determination of how good the team was than adding the bit of triva about Watt and Brown.

- - - Updated - - -


Beat me to it.....

Then they won the MAC playoff championship, and barely lost their bowl game to Purdue. Which is a better determination of how good the team was than adding the bit of triva about Watt and Brown.

[MSUBobcat]

Then they won the MAC playoff championship, and barely lost their bowl game to Purdue. Which is a better determination of how good the team was than adding the bit of triva about Watt and Brown.

That's more applicable. The CMU win was a good one, no doubt. Just seemed odd to bring up JJ Watt (and to a lesser extent Antonio Brown) in what appeared to be supporting information as to how good they were. That IS interesting trivia, but maybe could have been denoted as such. No biggie.

[clenz]

I'm the one that stated it and I consider it interesting trivia, unless you are like my wife and she calls it useless triva.
There is/was no reason to bring it up - even as fun trivia - without doing so as a way to make the point seem larger than it is

If you simply wanted to include their names you would have included how little a role they played rather than omitting it and stating it as they were on the team like it was something that made an impact

[Gil Dobie]

There is/was no reason to bring it up - even as fun trivia - without doing so as a way to make the point seem larger than it is

If you simply wanted to include their names you would have included how little a role they played rather than omitting it and stating it as they were on the team like it was something that made an impact

I agree to disagree with you!

[Gil Dobie]

That's more applicable. The CMU win was a good one, no doubt. Just seemed odd to bring up JJ Watt (and to a lesser extent Antonio Brown) in what appeared to be supporting information as to how good they were. That IS interesting trivia, but maybe could have been denoted as such. No biggie.

Just trying to make the AGS poll thread fun again ;)

[uni88]

Then they won the MAC playoff championship, and barely lost their bowl game to Purdue. Which is a better determination of how good the team was than adding the bit of triva about Watt and Brown.

Adding that Dan LeFevour was the QB would have meant more to me. I hadn't heard of Brown or Watt while they were with CMU but I knew who LeFevour was.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I had no idea JJ Watt played for CMU before transferring or that he played offense in college. THANK YOU for the trivia tidbit.

[caribbeanhen]

I just don't get Villanova above UNH; look at the schedules. UNH has beaten better opponents (including Stony Brook on the road where Villanova lost to them at home). They both have three losses. Holy Cross is the worst of the bunch, but at the same time, UNH has only two FCS losses compared to three for Nova. Plus we beat them. Just makes no sense.

I hear you, just something about the way New Hampshire looked in Newark, you were #26 in my poll and amends can happen quickly

[MacThor]

Yale was probably the best FCS opponent Richmond has played YTD, and the 5 CAA teams we've played have all been ranked at one point or another. Just my observation. You may now resume your regular programming.

[MacThor]

Last season is over; Let it go. We're about 3/4 of the way through a new season.

Nonsense. The Week 10 poll results thread is the place to debate Patriot League teams of the 90s and the Bison '07 transitional squad.

[grayghost06]

AGS is becoming the same slot voting nonsense we complain about other polls being. CCSU at 15? KSU still ranked? ill state at 10?!

Seems there was a lot more transparency with voters posting their polls in the past. A voter bitching about who's been ranked where by other voters (without posting their own polls) is a non starter. If one wants to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. It's a credibility issue.

I used to think AGS was the gold standard for FCS polls. In many ways it still is. There are some seriously well versed people on FCS football on here. But blanket statements about never ranking certain teams from certain conferences is absurd. Can you imagine that mentality by any kind of writers/coaches poll and the backlash they would get?

[smilo]

Seems there was a lot more transparency with voters posting their polls in the past. A voter bitching about who's been ranked where by other voters (without posting their own polls) is a non starter. If one wants to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. It's a credibility issue.

I used to think AGS was the gold standard for FCS polls. In many ways it still is. There are some seriously well versed people on FCS football on here. But blanket statements about never ranking certain teams from certain conferences is absurd. Can you imagine that mentality by any kind of writers/coaches poll and the backlash they would get?

It's a better mentality than those who don't rank objectively great teams from the Ivy League artificially deflating teams that should be top 10.

[dbackjon]

they almost beat Princeton and almost beat Dartmouth, so they have to be good.


And they LOST to Columbia...