Hofstra to join Big East?

[jessesd]

A former classmate just told me that the powers to be at Hofstra are studying the possibility of moving up to the Big East in all sports (Including football) in the near future, (I assume it must be post 2011).

According to him, he heard that from someone else who is reliable.


Has anyone heard anything about this?

I may be another unconfirmed rumor; I can't find anything to back it up!

I think Hofstra is too small to afford this move.

[Dane96]

I signed on just to reply to this post.

Your friend...should recheck the word reliability in the dictionary and then apply it to whomever told him this.

THREE WORDS: NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

I have very, and I do mean VERY, high-placed sources at Hofstra, both at the administrative and trustee level.

This was discussed years ago.

Hofstra brings nothing to the table for the Big East. Most importantly, Hofstra has been bitching for years about the cost of maintaining Olympic sports (travel, etc). No way they can buck up for the cost of nearly, oh, 50mm minimum per year to have a viable BIG EAST level program.

Additionally, with money for the state and county going to help Wang with his Lighthouse development (Nassau C.) forget any help from them to Hofstra for the massive upgrades needed at Shuart. It would cost AT LEAST 60mm to renovate SHUART, taking into account construction costs in Nassau County.

FORGET IT!!!!

[Fresno St. Alum]

There is a long line of schools that would want to be in the Big East. Memphis would be at the front, Hofstra would be towards the back.

[bluehenbillk]

Ouch! I fell off my chair laughing so hard I hurt my shoulder. Only one chance HU has of joining the Big East - none.

[DFW HOYA]

There are at least a half-dozen schools whose fans regularly talk up Big East memebrship, but the key point to remember is one doesn't join a conference without a vote, and a school would need 12 of 16 votes to do so. Owing to the various coalitions in the conference, neither side is going to get the votes to upset that balance, and St. John's will be the first one to ditch any Hofstra bid.

That having been said, such talk by Hofstra is not in a vacuum. I think that within the next 3-4 years there will be some discussion to consider a Sun Belt style conference (the "Rust Belt"?) of lower level I-A schools in the East, which could variously include a mix of Buffalo, Temple, UMass, Delaware, James Madison, etc.

Assuming the schools could meet attendance and stadium criteria, the operative question would be whether the jump to 85 scholarships is worth it to schedule major college opponents and get a $400-600K bowl payout of some kind (e.g., a New Orleans Bowl or some sort of new bowl altogether in the Northeast), versus the cost vs. revenue in I-AA/FCS playoff participation.

In some sense, I think this is why schools like Florida Int'l, Western Kentucky, Troy State, etc. have made the move to I-A--the Sun Belt is a safe harbor and they would not realistically be considered by any other major conference. In the Northeast, there are no realistic I-A options available at this time.

I also think this same question will get some discussion among the high level HBCU schools at some point as well.

[MplsBison]

Stony Brook has a better chance than Hofstra.

I'd put both in the million to one range.

[PaladinFan]

You mean a school in New York City would do not appeal to the big east at all?

[Dane96]

Absolutely not, Paladin.

For one, Hofstra is not considered the "City's School." Besides St. John's nixing any such idea, Rutgers would say no (they are the darlings of the Tri-State Area right now). Additionally, UConn would nix the idea as well (again, the Tri-State area).

Most important, however, would be financing. Hofstra could never come up with the 50-60mm per year to have a sustainable FCS athletic department.

[GeeWiz]

You mean a school in New York City would do not appeal to the big east at all?

Columbia is in New York City.

Hofstra is not. It's on Long Island.

And no it would have no appeal to the BE whatsoever. Rutgers and Syracuse is good enough

[MplsBison]

You mean a school in New York City would do not appeal to the big east at all?

Rutgers is the BE's claim to the NYC market.


They also have Seton Hall and Saint John's, but both of those will be in a different conference when the BE sheds off the non football schools.

[aust42]

That having been said, such talk by Hofstra is not in a vacuum. I think that within the next 3-4 years there will be some discussion to consider a Sun Belt style conference (the "Rust Belt"?) of lower level I-A schools in the East, which could variously include a mix of Buffalo, Temple, UMass, Delaware, James Madison, etc.

Assuming the schools could meet attendance and stadium criteria, the operative question would be whether the jump to 85 scholarships is worth it to schedule major college opponents and get a $400-600K bowl payout of some kind (e.g., a New Orleans Bowl or some sort of new bowl altogether in the Northeast), versus the cost vs. revenue in I-AA/FCS playoff participation.

In some sense, I think this is why schools like Florida Int'l, Western Kentucky, Troy State, etc. have made the move to I-A--the Sun Belt is a safe harbor and they would not realistically be considered by any other major conference. In the Northeast, there are no realistic I-A options available at this time.

I also think this same question will get some discussion among the high level HBCU schools at some point as well.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Delaware for one, appears to be satisfied with our level of competition and does not crave the "big time" FBS/1A label. The Sunbelt is a conference of ex 1-AA's that is no more competetive now with 85 scholarships than they were with 64 scholarships at the FCS/1AA level. The attendance figures aren't any better than the Delaware, Montana, G-Southern etc. of FCS/1AA. The Sunbelt has NEVER had a higher Saragin rating that the top FCS/1AA conference. The conference champ get's an auto bowl bid to play the THIRD place team out of Conference USA. I could go on and on. What advantage would there be to for another "big time Sunbelt type FBS/1A conference?" None.

[jessesd]

I signed on just to reply to this post.

Your friend...should recheck the word reliability in the dictionary and then apply it to whomever told him this.

THREE WORDS: NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

I have very, and I do mean VERY, high-placed sources at Hofstra, both at the administrative and trustee level.

This was discussed years ago.

Hofstra brings nothing to the table for the Big East. Most importantly, Hofstra has been bitching for years about the cost of maintaining Olympic sports (travel, etc). No way they can buck up for the cost of nearly, oh, 50mm minimum per year to have a viable BIG EAST level program.

Additionally, with money for the state and county going to help Wang with his Lighthouse development (Nassau C.) forget any help from them to Hofstra for the massive upgrades needed at Shuart. It would cost AT LEAST 60mm to renovate SHUART, taking into account construction costs in Nassau County.

FORGET IT!!!!

I’m as surprised as anyone, and is very hard for me to believe this can be possible at the current enrollment size, budgets and current endowments.
Enrollment wise, Hofstra is a wee smaller than Syracuse U, but endowments and budgets are miles away.
Facilitiy wise, Hofstra is not hurting, but their attendance and support to athletics is abysmal, just what you would expect of a commuter campus.

The fact that he mention that they have just began (rather recent) studying the possibility makes me wonder a lot.

Although, the Lighthouse development may have some connection to this.... just a guess since is connected to campus by pedestrian overpass accross Unniondale blvd and Hempstead TPKE.

[youwouldno]

Hofstra to Big East? LOLOLOL

What's next, Savannah State to SEC?

[DFW HOYA]

The Sunbelt has NEVER had a higher Saragin rating that the top FCS/1AA conference. The conference champ get's an auto bowl bid to play the THIRD place team out of Conference USA. I could go on and on. What advantage would there be to for another "big time Sunbelt type FBS/1A conference?" None.

The advantage for the Sunbelt schools can be summarized as 1) scheduling and 2) bowl money. A school like North Texas, which was a solid playoff team in the Southland, has access to a number of major college opponents that it didn't get in I-AA: two or three Big 12 teams a year, with an SEC, Pac 10, or C-USA team as well.


They also have Seton Hall and Saint John's, but both of those will be in a different conference when the BE sheds off the non football schools.

No they won't. The Big East can't vote out the non I-A members. You need 75% to enact such a change and there are 8 schools who would vote it down. If the Louisvilles and West Virginias of the world want an all-sports conference, they'll have to leave the league to do it, so schools like St. John's, Villanova, and Georgetown would stay regardless.

Besides, if it wasn't for the Big East, Georgetown's unusual mix of heavy, low, and non-scholarship programs wouldn't be a good fit with other conferences if it had to go elsewhere. There are six different conferences with teams in the DC area and none of them want another local team.

[MplsBison]

Then the 8 FBS schools and Notre Dame would leave.

Georgetown and Villanova would be asked to come with them for their basketball and neither have the balls to dare decline such an offer.

They'd add Central Florida as a travel partner for South Florida and have a pretty damn good 12 team conference:

Uconn
Syracuse
Rutgers
Villanova
Lousiville
Cincinnati
South Florida
Central Florida
West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Georgetown
Notre Dame


Saint Johns and Seton Hall add nothing. Rutgers is the NYC metro team and Cuse as well as Notre Dame have decent market share.

Providence adds nothing.

Notre Dame already has a far greater share in Chicago than DePaul could ever dream to have, Depaul adds nothing.

And lastly, Marquette brings a small sliver of the Milwaukee market (whatever UW doesn't have). IE, nothing.



If it has to be that they start a new conference rather than kick those 5 schools out, so be it.


Maybe Nova will upgrade football. They have plenty of room to build an oncampus practice facility. They'd have to rent out Lincoln.

Georgetown I just don't see. They have room for an oncampus facility they could be allowed to build in the park to the west of the campus. They'd have to rent out FedEx. But they'd have to go from 0 to 85 scholarships. They'd need the end of title IX to consider it.

And, of course, there's always the wet dream that Notre Dame will join for football.




This is written in stone.

[DFW HOYA]

Back to I-AA/FCS talk--Hofstra isn't going I-A and neither is Georgetown and Villanova. The money isn't there to invest in it.

[MplsBison]

Now that I see that Nova has the room for oncampus facilities, other than the obvious costs, I don't see why they couldn't do a UConn upgrade.

[Pard4Life]

Bison,

I assume you do not live in the Northeast, so I think you believe it is obvious that the non-football Big East schools add nothing to the league... not true at all. The present composition of the Big East is excellent... it is a super basketball conference with massive television revenues and exposure.

St. John's and Seton Hall are the BACKBONE of the NYC basketball market... St. John's plays at MSG and usually has a respectable bball program.. you just ahve not seen it the past few seasons due to administration gaffes/poor coaching.

Seton Hall is also a consistent NCAA tournament team. They had a top team earlier this decade until they did not want to play as a team.. Eddie Griffin ring a bell? Seton Hall is also right in the middle of a prime recruiting hot bed. And unlike football, the prime NJ bball recruits actually stay in the area.

Providence is also another historically good Big East team that has had weak seasons lately.

Marquette... nothing?! They made the Final Four in 2003.. they have been a top-25 ranked team the past four years... I live in New Jersey and all I heard about in Big East rivalry games has been Marquette.. a Wisconsin team. They fill areans. How can you say they add nothing?

I do admit that I do not know what DePaul adds... and South Florida, save for football.. does not really belong in the Big East.

Central Florida is an interesting case.. aren't they a huge school?

Discarding the schools I mentioned above would be a tremendous mistake and would be very-short sighted on behalf of the league. You don't need BCS/FCS harmony across the board..

[Mr. C]

This is one of the weirdest threads I've ever seen on here. The second post pretty much summed things up. All of the outsiders putting in their two cents worth has made for some of the wackiest discussion I can imagine. The Big East is first and formost a conference built around basketball and it will make decisions based on that.

[Pard4Life]

This is one of the weirdest threads I've ever seen on here. The second post pretty much summed things up. All of the outsiders putting in their two cents worth has made for some of the wackiest discussion I can imagine. The Big East is first and formost a conference built around basketball and it will make decisions based on that.

It wasn't that cut and dry until a few years ago... but it clearly is now.. with VT, Miami, BC.. I'd say it was more 'football'.

[carney2]

Now that I see that Nova has the room for oncampus facilities, other than the obvious costs, I don't see why they couldn't do a UConn upgrade.

Try this:

In 1981 Villanova dropped football for financial reasons.

1985: Pressure from alumni and students forced the University to restore football, but at the I-AA level.

Given this history it is hard to see the Wildcats heading back to I-A.

[GannonFan]

Now that I see that Nova has the room for oncampus facilities, other than the obvious costs, I don't see why they couldn't do a UConn upgrade.

Spoken like someone who apparently wasn't that familiar with what UConn did and what nova's prospects are. First of all, where does nova have room for on-campus facilities? Considering they are in Radnor Township and that the locals have been generally anti-nova for most things, that's a real odd statement to make. One of the major reasons why nova decided not to go I-A back when UConn went was the resistance locally and the lack of space on campus.

And touching on the first point, they can't do a UConn upgrade for several reasons, besides the initial no-go which is the costs which nova just doesn't have at all. First, UConn got breaks and concessions galore from the state for financing and for playing in Hartford at the new stadium - nova, being a private school in the same state with Penn St and Pitt, wouldn't get any help like that from the state and would be at the mercy of the Eagles for renting the Linc - Temple is paying an arm and a leg to play there and nova would be even more so (heck, nova's not even in Philly technically so there'd be less pressure on the Eagle's to go easy on the rent). nova also isn't guaranteed a spot in the Big East for football - UConn was because they were a founding member, but nova joined a year later and the Big East can refuse to take nova football in. And that stadium got built in Connecticut because Robert Kraft was flirting with CT to move the Patriots there - UConn was the beneficiary of those machinations, which wouldn't be replicated for nova.

nova would face significant hurdles if they wanted to move up, and that's well before you get to the cost issues which would be a non-starter from the get-go. No room for on-campus stuff, no stadium to play in (I guess maybe Penn could gouge them if they wanted to play at Franklin Field!!! xlolx xlolx xlolx ), and the Big East would have to say they'll take them. Oh, and the complete lack of a football fanbase comes to mind as well. There's a reason why nova is still FCS today. xpeacex

[BigApp]

Back to I-AA/FCS talk--Hofstra isn't going I-A and neither is Georgetown and Villanova. The money isn't there to invest in it.

not trying to hi-jack this thread, but are you implying that Georgetown University doesn't have the money to invest in football??

According to NACUBO, your endowment is in the Top 10% of all colleges and universities, and larger than (just 2 examples) Florida and Tennessee's and almost 50% larger than Miami's (Fla).

It appears to be more of an issue of "don't want to" as compared to "can't".

[89Hen]

not trying to hi-jack this thread, but are you implying that Georgetown University doesn't have the money to invest in football??
No implying needed. They don't.

[Seahawks Fan]

I can't imagine any possibility of Hofstra getting into the Big East.

I've always felt that the logical expansion of the Big East would include Army and Navy. But I don't read much about that.

[BigApp]

No implying needed. They don't.

why do you think that is? According to their alumni website (http://alumni.georgetown.edu/default.aspx?Page=NewsAugostiniStory), GU raised $100 million a year in FY 2006 in gifts, and have a $750 million base operating budget ("pretty close to break even").

That's a lotta moolah.

[henfan]

This is a ridiculous thread with ridiculous comments. xthumbsdownx

[NoSpinZone]

The Big East is first and formost a conference built around basketball and it will make decisions based on that.

I could have sworn they added USF over Memphis last go around. No FCS school will go directly to the Big East unless it's a team like Villanova that already in for other sports.

[dbackjon]

I could have sworn they added USF over Memphis last go around. No FCS school will go directly to the Big East unless it's a team like Villanova that already in for other sports.

South Florida got in for one reason, and one reason alone - they are in Florida. When Miami left, the Big East wanted to keep a presence in Florida.

[NoSpinZone]

South Florida got in for one reason, and one reason alone - they are in Florida. When Miami left, the Big East wanted to keep a presence in Florida.

This is true, but obviously more plays into the decision than just basketball. I would say compared to football basketball is dwarfed in any conference shufflies. USF was a total football decision and at that time Louisville and Cincinnati were both playing pretty solid football and had been for a few years so don't confuse that as all basketball.

They were pretty much the best football programs available at the time who also happened to have great basketball. Basketball didn't hurt but obviously it didn't help Memphis who's football hadn't been to a bowl in 30 years at that point and might not for another 30 now that Deangelo Williams is gone.

Basically USF got in mainly because of potential and needing a FL presence true, but that said they had also had proven themselves some at that level, in 2002 the year before the shake up they were 9-2 season and #25 ranking in the BCS polls and beat a Pitt team that went to a Bowl.

Bottom line anyone expecting the stars to align like they did for USF needs a reality check. While they prove anything is possible I think they are clearly the exception and everything just happened to fall into place for them.

[PantherRob82]

hilarious. xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

why do you think that is? According to their alumni website (http://alumni.georgetown.edu/default.aspx?Page=NewsAugostiniStory), GU raised $100 million a year in FY 2006 in gifts, and have a $750 million base operating budget ("pretty close to break even"). That's a lotta moolah.

From a financial perspective, Georgetown is considerably underfunded versus its academic peers (Ivy League, Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, etc.) and most of its endowment income is restricted to areas beyond athletics.

While there is a philosophical argument that I-A football could pay for itself in the long run, I-AA/FCS is the right place for the program at this point.

[Hoquista]

South Florida got in for one reason, and one reason alone - they are in Florida. When Miami left, the Big East wanted to keep a presence in Florida.

Actually, if you want to go back further than that, USF got in soley because BC left in September. If you look at the BE papers, USF was dismissed in July 2003 when the BE FB admins met to reform the conference. The BE would have been at 8 and would have looked at a FB-only 9th member of which the following were considered:

Army
Navy
Temple (for all sports too)
UCF

The thought behind UCF was that they had their olympic sports in the Atlantic Sun and could just move FB from the MAC to the BE while USF was all sports in CUSA.

[Marcus Garvey]

nova also isn't guaranteed a spot in the Big East for football - UConn was because they were a founding member, but nova joined a year later and the Big East can refuse to take nova football in.

You're assertion that 'Nova is not currently guaranteed a spot in the Big East for football may be correct. However, your statement about UConn is wrong.

When the Big East announced the addition of football around 1990, all member schools with football programs, regardless of divisional status, were invited to join. All the I-A foortball members at that time (Pitt, Syracuse, B.C) said yes. Villanova (I-AA), Georgetown (III) and St. John's (III) said no. Only UConn agreed to upgrade their program and go I-A, but it was a long-term ordeal. That offer may or may not still be out there, I'm not sure.