Student body size/Athletic prominence ratio

[65 Pard]

Little Davidson had some big time Basketball teams decades ago....

Little Lafayette (2000 students) with football national championships, NCAA and NIT and College World Series appearances has to rank near the top...
(wrestling doesn't count)xlolx xlolx

Any other contenders?

[DFW HOYA]

Any other contenders?

Back when athletics was more of a priority, Holy Cross won the NCAA basketball title, the College World Series, and the NIT championship, all within seven years of each other.

[PaladinFan]

Furman University, 2600 students, three National Championship appearances, one title.

Also have the only college player every to score 100 points in a basketball game (Frank Selvy)

[Appstate29]

How many students does Forham have?? They won a sugar bowl back in the middle ages.

[Maroon&White]

Also have the only college player every to score 100 points in a basketball game (Frank Selvy)

Only D1 player ;)

Clarence Francis actually scored more, 113, in a game vs. Hillsdale College. He also scored 116pts in another game, but was against a JC team, so doesn't officially count.

[ucdtim17]

We would be far down that list

[Appstate29]

We would be far down that list

take heart! I know that this is an athletics board, but I'd much rather compete with Harvard and Yale academically than Florida and USC athletically.

[PaladinFan]

Oh, I should also mention that Furman produced two players on the US National Soccer team, Clint Dempsey and Ricardo Clark. Dempsey was the only US player to notch a goal in the 2006 World Cup.

[Pards Rule]

Little Davidson had some big time Basketball teams decades ago....

Little Lafayette (2000 students) with football national championships, NCAA and NIT and College World Series appearances has to rank near the top...
(wrestling doesn't count)xlolx xlolx

Any other contenders?

65, remember the cover of Sports Illustrated (pre-internet!) in Sept. 1989 with Lafayette QB Frank Baur on the cover? "The Best QB in the Nation May Be from Little Lafayette" it said.

[bluehenbillk]

Notre Dame has only 8,000 undergrads and look what they've accomplished....

[Franks Tanks]

65, remember the cover of Sports Illustrated (pre-internet!) in Sept. 1989 with Lafayette QB Frank Baur on the cover? "The Best QB in the Nation May Be from Little Lafayette" it said.


Here it is --I hope this works cause im not very good at this

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1989/0904.html

[Franks Tanks]

Here it is --I hope this works cause im not very good at this

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1989/0904.html


Ok it didnt, here is the link to the cover

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1989/0904.html

[OL FU]

Furman University, 2600 students, three National Championship appearances, one title.

Also have the only college player every to score 100 points in a basketball game (Frank Selvy)

And we own ( exaggeration) the LPGA hall of fame

[PaladinFan]

Notre Dame has only 8,000 undergrads and look what they've accomplished....

How about we qualify it to be small schools without $$$ ;)

[GannonFan]

How about we qualify it to be small schools without $$$ ;)

Well, isn't that a different thread then? Student body size and $$$ are completely independent of each other.

[Ronbo]

Notre Dame has only 8,000 undergrads and look what they've accomplished....

Miami is a small school too. They have 9600 undergrads.

[PaladinFan]

I'm interested in what exactly qualifies as a "small school." When compared to Lehigh and Furman, 9-10k students are huge schools.

[LeopardFan04]

Here it is --I hope this works cause im not very good at this

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1989/0904.html


I'll take a shot FT:

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1989/0904_large.jpg

[OSBF]

Tulsa has an undergrad enrollment of about 2000. Smallest institution to play FBS football, FWIW.

[walliver]

Tulsa has an undergrad enrollment of about 2000. Smallest institution to play FBS football, FWIW.

From their website (http://www.utulsa.edu/admission/):
"4,125 (2,882 undergraduate, 1,243 graduate and law)"

Interesting quote from their homepage: "The University of Tulsa isn't a big public university. And it's not a small private college. It's a mid-size, selective, private university that combines all the best features of both. By almost every measure, The University of Tulsa is a better fit."


It's still much bigger than Wofford (currently about 1200, moving to 1450 over the next several yeares).

[I-AA Fan]

Notre Dame has only 8,000 undergrads and look what they've accomplished....


ND chooses to hold down enrollment to maintain higher fees. Also, they are the only individual football institution to hold a national TV contract. I think they re-signed with ABC. All other contracts are awarded to the conferences. ND receives about about 20% less than the entire Big-10 conference for the right to broadcast Irish football games. Why do you think they have never joined a conference? xrulesx

[Seahawks Fan]

Wagner has 2,000 undergraduates.

Graduates:

Curt Blefary (Baseball: Baltimore Orioles and NY Yankees)

Rich Kotite (Football: TE NY Giants. Head Coach Phila Eagles and NY Jets)

Former Coaches:

Jim Lee Howell (Football: To Head Coach NY Giants)

P. J. Carlesimo (Basketball: To Seton Hall)

Dereck Whittenberg (Basketball: To Fordham)

Biggest Wins:

1987 Football: Beat Dayton For the NCAA Division 3 Championship

1963 Basketball: Beat Pre-Season #1 NYU with Happy Hairston and Barry Kramer in OT.

[ucdtim17]

ND chooses to hold down enrollment to maintain higher fees. Also, they are the only individual football institution to hold a national TV contract. I think they re-signed with ABC. All other contracts are awarded to the conferences. ND receives about about 20% less than the entire Big-10 conference for the right to broadcast Irish football games. Why do you think they have never joined a conference? xrulesx


"Higher fees" has nothing to do with anything. ND has high standards and no reason to get much bigger. And the TV contract is with NBC, not ABC.

[ucdtim17]

And part that NBC money funds an endowment that provides thousands of dollars in need-based scholarship money to hundreds of students every year. Same goes for BCS money. ND does everything they can to keep tuition and fees down, not up

[DFW HOYA]

ND chooses to hold down enrollment to maintain higher fees.

ND does not hold down enrollment as you describe, nor do most private universities. They do so because their faculty, facilities, and support systems aren't meant to handle 20,000 students.

[OSBF]

Most schools that decide to "control" enrollment do so by simply raising admission requirements, or being tougher with curent students that land on academic probation, a shorter leash.

[GaSouthern]

Woffie

[Ronbo]

I'm interested in what exactly qualifies as a "small school." When compared to Lehigh and Furman, 9-10k students are huge schools.

Well there's schools under 10,000, there's schools around 15,000, there's schools at 20,000, 30,000, and 40,000.

What's small? Under 10,000?

[65 Pard]

65, remember the cover of Sports Illustrated (pre-internet!) in Sept. 1989 with Lafayette QB Frank Baur on the cover? "The Best QB in the Nation May Be from Little Lafayette" it said.

Yes I remember that and also a feature in SI re. Tracy Tripuka, "the best pure shooter in the nation"....took us to the NIT......If I recall we beat Ralph Sampson's Virginia team around Chrismas time, with the Headline in the paper the next day, "Yes Virginia, there is a Lafayette"

[65 Pard]

Well there's schools under 10,000, there's schools around 15,000, there's schools at 20,000, 30,000, and 40,000.

What's small? Under 10,000?
For the purposes of this discussion (the ratio) I would say a small school is one that can hold its own in athletic contests with schools 4-5times as big or bigger.....On that basis I agree Notre Dame is up there with the best...So too Lehigh and Lafayette

[th0m]

Richmond also qualifies. Demographics around the same as the University of Tulsa,~ 2.8k undergrad.

[Eyes of Old Main]

How many students does Forham have?? They won a sugar bowl back in the middle ages.

Or was it while the Earth was still cooling?

But, hey, it's better than that 1950 Cigar Bowl appearance where Wofford got upset by Florida State. That's right, the Terriers were favored. It was FSU's first ever bowl win.

[Eyes of Old Main]

It's still much bigger than Wofford (currently about 1200, moving to 1450 over the next several years).

Yeah, I can't wait until we are "big school" in a couple more years. Ohio State better watch out.

[mistersykes]

Yeah, I can't wait until we are "big school" in a couple more years. Ohio State better watch out.

Being a small school has its benefits though.

I feel like ASU is growing too much and too fast. I know that growth is usually considered a great and progressive thing, I just have a bad feeling about it in this case. I hope I'm wrong.

[JoltinJoe]

Or was it while the Earth was still cooling?

But, hey, it's better than that 1950 Cigar Bowl appearance where Wofford got upset by Florida State. That's right, the Terriers were favored. It was FSU's first ever bowl win.

It was the 1942 Sugar Bowl. The Rams were invited that year to play in the Rose Bowl but they had already accepted the Sugar Bowl invitation and the school felt it had to honor its word. Fordham also played in the 1941 Cotton Bowl against Texas A&M and lost 13-12 on a trick play that was subsequently ruled illegal. The '41 Cotton Bowl was viewed at the time as the greatest bowl game every played.

At least one major college historical ranking system awards Fordham the 1929 national championship in football. The Rams were a national power in football until Fordham discontinued football during World War II. Football was reinstated on a deemphasized basis in 1946 but discontinued in 1954 (two weeks after hiring Vince Lombardi as their coach).

From the inception of the AP rankings in 1936, Fordham finished in every final top 20 poll through 1942. In that time, Fordham also appeared in every weekly AP poll except seven (six of them during the beginning of the 1939 season). No team currently playing FCS football ever finished higher in a Major College Poll or Division I-A poll than the 1937 Rams, which finished No. 3.

[Eyes of Old Main]

It was the 1942 Sugar Bowl. The Rams were invited that year to play in the Rose Bowl but they had already accepted the Sugar Bowl invitation and the school felt it had to honor its word. Fordham also played in the 1941 Cotton Bowl against Texas A&M and lost 13-12 on a trick play that was subsequently ruled illegal. The '41 Cotton Bowl was viewed at the time as the greatest bowl game every played.

At least one major college historical ranking system awards Fordham the 1929 national championship in football. The Rams were a national power in football until Fordham discontinued football during World War II. Football was reinstated on a deemphasized basis in 1946 but discontinued in 1954 (two weeks after hiring Vince Lombardi as their coach).

From the inception of the AP rankings in 1936, Fordham finished in every final top 20 poll through 1942. In that time, Fordham also appeared in every weekly AP poll except seven (six of them during the beginning of the 1939 season). No team currently playing FCS football ever finished higher in a Major College Poll or Division I-A poll than the 1937 Rams, which finished No. 3.

That's an impressive early football tradition. Definitely something to be proud of.

[PaladinFan]

In 2005 the FCS semifinal games could have produced Furman v. Texas State (instead of ASU v. UNI). That would have pitted a school of 2600 v. a school of 30k.

At would have made a good story....

[JoltinJoe]

That's an impressive early football tradition. Definitely something to be proud of.

We're very fortunate to have that tradition. Without it, I don't think we'd have football at Fordham today. Fortunately, the rich tradition of the program makes it difficult for the administration to abandon football.

[Tealblood]

If talking about "small" schools competing at a high level I think Wake Forest has to be in the conversation I think it is the smallest BCS level school in the country

[Tealblood]

I also don't think some of us in the south and east understand what constitutes "big" and "small"

I consider Clemson "big" but when compared student-body wise with an Ohio State or Florida St. it is pretty modest.

That not even talking about the Southern Cal's & Michigans of this world

[Franks Tanks]

Well there's schools under 10,000, there's schools around 15,000, there's schools at 20,000, 30,000, and 40,000.

What's small? Under 10,000?

10k is pretty darn big, I think the intent of this discussion was for schools for under like 5k

[appsfan]

If talking about "small" schools competing at a high level I think Wake Forest has to be in the conversation I think it is the smallest BCS level school in the country

I think Rice is actually smaller. However, with Wake's recent ACC Championship and Orange Bowl berth, they have more to talk about than the Owls.

[PaladinFan]

Wofford fans can probably give you the exact number, but it is some insane percentage of Wofford students are varsity atheltes. 20%?

[Eyes of Old Main]

Wofford fans can probably give you the exact number, but it is some insane percentage of Wofford students are varsity atheltes. 20%?

I'm not sure of the overall percentage, but last time I heard, 1 out of every 6 males on campus is on the football team.

It might be a little higher since we are up to about 1250 students from 1100, but that's still an eye-popping stat.