AGS Poll Results - WEEK 6 - 2019 SEASON

[AGSPoll]

10/7/2019



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
North Dakota State Bison
2194
86


2
James Madison Dukes
2076
1


3
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2027
1


4
Weber State Wildcats
1841



5
Villanova Wildcats
1835



6
Montana Grizzlies
1742



7
Montana State Bobcats
1646



8
Furman Paladins
1579



9
Northern Iowa Panthers
1435



10
Towson Tigers
1362



11
Nicholls State Colonels
1250



12
Kennesaw State Owls
1248



13
North Carolina A&T Aggies
925



14
Youngstown State Penguins
850



15
Illinois State Redbirds
847



16
Central Arkansas Bears
792



17
Stony Brook Seawolves
696



18
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
671



19
Maine Black Bears
516



20
Princeton Tigers
489



21
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
364



22
Sac State Hornets
354



23
Austin Peay Governors
302



24
Dartmouth Big Green
271



25
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
266
















ORV:




26
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
191



27
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
172



28
Sam Houston State Bearkats
152



29
UC Davis Aggies
147



30
Yale Bulldogs
98



31
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
62



32
South Carolina State Bulldogs
39



33
Wofford Terriers
30



34
New Hampshire Wildcats
29



35
Houston Baptist Huskies
17



36
McNeese State Cowboys
15



37
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
14



38T
Chattanooga Mocs
11



38T
San Diego Toreros
11



40
Elon Phoenix
8
















Most Significant Win:

Nicholls State Colonels



Most Significant Loss:

UC Davis Aggies




https://i.imgur.com/oiGOEDf.png

[MSUBobcat]

Wowzers. I see what everyone was saying about having a hard time filling out anything after the top 10. Not very often a team (YSU) can lose a game and move from #15 up to #14, but when 3 teams ahead of you suffer bad losses and only 1 team below you has a good win (Nicholls), there's not much else you can do.

[caribbeanhen]

So someone is voting the Bison at # 5 ?

[PaladinFan]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?

[RootinFerDukes]

This is an odd week. Many teams too high and too low IMO. I continue to be baffled by KSU being voted so high.

[MSUBobcat]

So someone is voting the Bison at # 5 ?

Could be voting them #6 also. The 2 voters who voted for JMU and SDSU could have had the Bison #2 & #6, #3 & #5 or they both voted NDSU #4. All 3 combinations yield 44 points.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So someone is voting the Bison at # 5 ?

6 actually.

[dewey]

6 actually.

Interesting. I would love to have that person post why they feel there are 5 other teams in the FCS better than NDSU.

NDSU's good wins (current rankings below).
#27 UND (whooping)
@#18 Delaware (whooping)
#29 UC Davis (close game)
#15 Illinois State (whooping)

I would just like to hear the rationale.

Dewey

[aceinthehole]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?

Good point.

[ysubigred]

#Holy**** YSU should lose more often,,, Jumped more for losing than winning xsmiley_wix

[BisonFan02]

6 actually.

That's borderline criminal. xlolx I dont get accused of being a homer often, but this Bison team right now is the #1 team.....its really not even close. Personally didn't think they would be this year with the youth on the team....which is scary.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Interesting. I would love to have that person post why they feel there are 5 other teams in the FCS better than NDSU.

NDSU's good wins (current rankings below).
#27 UND (whooping)
@#18 Delaware (whooping)
#29 UC Davis (close game)
#15 Illinois State (whooping)

I would just like to hear the rationale.

Dewey

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

[nevadagriz]

I don't vote in this poll however it is something I look forward to every monday. Thanks to all of you who take the time to vote.
This poll is impossible outside the top three teams to place in order.
Questions I look to be answered on the field the next couple weeks.
Can Montana maintain the decent play?
MSU vs SACst who is for real?
Weber St are they a legit top 5 team?
UNI how good are they really?
EWU WTF
UCD WTF
Will NDSU lose in the next 10 years?

[JSUSoutherner]

I seriously don't understand how people are still voting for us.

Like do you people even watch us?

[Christiank22]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

Even with that very odd rationale, any other team not named NDSU would be the consensus #1 if they did what we have done this year

[MSUBobcat]

Interesting. I would love to have that person post why they feel there are 5 other teams in the FCS better than NDSU.

NDSU's good wins (current rankings below).
#27 UND (whooping)
@#18 Delaware (whooping)
#29 UC Davis (close game)
#15 Illinois State (whooping)

I would just like to hear the rationale.

Dewey

I'm betting it's a sand bagging NDSU fan who is trying too hard to avoid any appearance of homerism. No one can seriously put 5 teams ahead of NDSU. JMU and Nova can make an argument (at least til Saturday). Maybe even BBQ and the Griz. SDSU's resume doesn't hold up, IMO.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm betting it's a sand bagging NDSU fan who is trying too hard to avoid any appearance of homerism. No one can seriously put 5 teams ahead of NDSU. JMU and Nova can make an argument (at least til Saturday). Maybe even BBQ and the Griz. SDSU's resume doesn't hold up, IMO.

It is an NDSU voter.

[ST_Lawson]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

Wow...I can understand moving them down a bit to start off with...but like low top-10 maybe, not all the way out of the top 25. I wouldn't have done that, but I could maybe understand it.

[MSUBobcat]

Wow...I can understand moving them down a bit to start off with...but like low top-10 maybe, not all the way out of the top 25. I wouldn't have done that, but I could maybe understand it.

I think it's common on AGS that fans are harder on their own team than the masses, but not even starting season with the defending champs in the top 25 displays a level of self-deprecation that is borderline criminal.

[Daytripper]

It seems that Sam Houston is having to prove more than most that they belong. 4-2 with both losses coming when we were rotating QBs. One was to an FBS and the other to an (I think) FCS top 25 team in UND. Like most teams, we do have questions. But, our defense is legit (yes, I can't believe I wrote that either) and we have a stable of really good skill position players. Brock is a serviceable QB right now and if we can get a consistent running game, we could make a playoff run.

[BisonFan02]

It is an NDSU voter.

I can confirm it is NOT me..... xlolx

[dewey]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

Wow. Not even in the top 25....crazy talk. If it were not in the top 10 with all of the personnel (players and coaches) I could see that but not even the top 25.

I think on any given year there may be 10 teams that have a legit shot at the national championship.

Thanks for the explanation Ursus.

Dewey

[dewey]

I can confirm it is NOT me..... xlolx

Me either. I normally post my top 25 to get others opinions on what I see or don't see from other teams.

Dewey

[nodak651]

It seems that Sam Houston is having to prove more than most that they belong. 4-2 with both losses coming when we were rotating QBs. One was to an FBS and the other to an (I think) FCS top 25 team in UND. Like most teams, we do have questions. But, our defense is legit (yes, I can't believe I wrote that either) and we have a stable of really good skill position players. Brock is a serviceable QB right now and if we can get a consistent running game, we could make a playoff run.

That argument is pretty weak when you lost to UND's true freshman third string QB, who came in cold after the backup was injured after the second drive. Eric Schmid still threw 30 passes and only averaged 3.8 yards per attempt. Ty Brock only played 4 series and attempted 6 passes total.

UND just has a good pass D. I think you guys do deserve to be ranked, however.

[Bisonator]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.
Are ****ing serious? NDSU was not a top 25 team to start the season?? xlolx

[Daytripper]

That argument is pretty week when you lost to UND's true freshman third string QB, who came in cold after the backup was injured after the second drive. Eric Schmid still threw 30 passes and only averaged 3.8 yards per attempt. Ty Brock only played 4 series and attempted 6 passes total.

UND just has a good pass D. I think you guys do deserve to be ranked, however.

That's my point. I wasn't saying that we are top ten, but we are better than some in the top 25.

[Bisonator]

It is an NDSU voter.
A legit NDSU fan? I think not.

Please whoever you are just put it out here and own it.

[paward]

I try not to critique anyone poll. Only because my system may not be their system. However, NDSU not being a consensus #1 does baffle me. I do get stuck each week on JMU and South Dakato being 2 or 3. It is a coin flip for me.

[Christiank22]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

Even with that very odd rationale, any other team not named NDSU would be the consensus #1 if they did what we have done this year

[Professor Chaos]

Here's this week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-6-top-25-results-2/

A few thoughts:

I was surprised to see EWU drop completely out. Good on the voters for not propping up an undeserving team based on name and success in the past season.
Sac St cracks the top 25 for the first time in nearly 7 years. Congrats to the Hornets!
It looks like a lot people struggled with the #13-#16 spots like I did when voting. NC A&T is a nice team but a beatdown of hapless Norfolk St certainly didn't warrant a 5 spot jump but there's not much else to put there which is evidenced by the fact that teams like Illinois St and Central Arkansas are right behind them despite getting trucked in their last game. It was also evident by the 300+ point spread between #12 and #13. Last week the 925 points that NC A&T has would've only got them to #17. This week it's good for #13.

[nodak651]

Probably not, because NDSU would still be undefeated vs whatever other hypothetical teams, and getting votes.

[F'N Hawks]

Sac State is the real deal. They always had talent but really bad line play. Now they got an offense that negates that a bit and their defense is suddenly formidable. Coaching is a funny thing.

[UpstateBison]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?

What has Wofford done to deserve to be in the Top 25? Gardner-Webb, VMI and ETSU is not a Top 25 resume.

They may climb back but the SoCon is down this year and they will have no OOC resume at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?
Wofford wasn't in the AGS Poll last week (not even in the ORV). Maybe you're thinking of the STATS poll?


It seems that Sam Houston is having to prove more than most that they belong. 4-2 with both losses coming when we were rotating QBs. One was to an FBS and the other to an (I think) FCS top 25 team in UND. Like most teams, we do have questions. But, our defense is legit (yes, I can't believe I wrote that either) and we have a stable of really good skill position players. Brock is a serviceable QB right now and if we can get a consistent running game, we could make a playoff run.
I noticed you didn't mention anything about SHSU's wins in there. Looks like it's been covered a bit already but UND is just a single spot ahead of SHSU also outside of the top 25. I have both of them in my top 25 but I don't see how you can rank SHSU before UND at this point.

[Bisonator]

When's the last time EWU didn't receive a single vote?

[Professor Chaos]

When's the last time EWU didn't receive a single vote?
I'm guessing they did receive a vote it was just less than 8 points total. Maybe I'm wrong but like I said I was impressed with the voters not propping them up due to being lazy and going with name recognition. I do know it's the first time since the final poll of the 2015 season that they weren't in the top 25.

[Professor Chaos]

This was my crack at it this week:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Weber State Wildcats
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: Furman Paladins
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Northern Iowa Panthers
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Towson Tigers
11: Kennesaw State Owls
12: Nicholls State Colonels
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Princeton Tigers
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: North Carolina A&T Aggies
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Sac State Hornets
22: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
23: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
24: Sam Houston State Bearkats
25: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks

[jmufan999]

I seriously don't understand how people are still voting for us.

Like do you people even watch us?

it's kind of a nice problem to have, isn't it? the alternative (never getting the benefit of the doubt) is way, way worse. i wouldn't complain.

[Bisonator]

I seriously don't understand how people are still voting for us.

Like do you people even watch us?
Have you been watching other games? Consider yourself the skum skimmed off the top.:D

[Preferred Walk-On]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?

Wofford didn't fall three spots...the 30 is number of points received. They were not in the top 40 last week, so technically, they rose at least 7 spots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Preferred Walk-On]

Wofford didn't fall three spots...the 30 is number of points received. They were not in the top 40 last week, so technically, they rose at least 7 spots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry Professor, I see you beat me to this.

[BisonTru]

A little playoff outlook based on the poll.





AL = At large





FO = First Out





NO = Next Out








Rank
Team:
Total Points
Playoff Outlook


1
North Dakota State Bison
2194
MVFC Auto


2
James Madison Dukes
2076
CAA Auto


3
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2027
AL1


4
Weber State Wildcats
1841
Big Sky Auto


5
Villanova Wildcats
1835
AL2


6
Montana Grizzlies
1742
AL3


7
Montana State Bobcats
1646
AL4


8
Furman Paladins
1579
Southern Auto


9
Northern Iowa Panthers
1435
AL5


10
Towson Tigers
1362
AL6


11
Nicholls State Colonels
1250
Southland Auto


12
Kennesaw State Owls
1248
Big South Auto


13
North Carolina A&T Aggies
925
MEAC Champ/Bowl bid


14
Youngstown State Penguins
850
AL7


15
Illinois State Redbirds
847
AL8


16
Central Arkansas Bears
792
AL9


17
Stony Brook Seawolves
696
AL10


18
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
671
AL11


19
Maine Black Bears
516
AL12


20
Princeton Tigers
489
No playoffs


21
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
364
AL13


22
Sac State Hornets
354
AL14


23
Austin Peay Governors
302
OVC Auto


24
Dartmouth Big Green
271
No Playoffs


25
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
266
F01















ORV:




26
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
191
FO2


27
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
172
FO3


28
Sam Houston State Bearkats
152
FO4


29
UC Davis Aggies
147
NO1


30
Yale Bulldogs
98
No Playoffs


31
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
62
NEC Auto


32
South Carolina State Bulldogs
39
NO2


33
Wofford Terriers
30
NO3


34
New Hampshire Wildcats
29
NO4


35
Houston Baptist Huskies
17



36
McNeese State Cowboys
15



37
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
14



38T
Chattanooga Mocs
11



38T
San Diego Toreros
11



40
Elon Phoenix
8

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm guessing they did receive a vote it was just less than 8 points total. Maybe I'm wrong but like I said I was impressed with the voters not propping them up due to being lazy and going with name recognition. I do know it's the first time since the final poll of the 2015 season that they weren't in the top 25.

They had 1 or maybe 2 points but it was almost non existent this week.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Random thoughts...by Jack Handey:

- Was a bit surprised to see Tennessee Tech **** on by voters (only 14 pts; 4 from me alone), considering that Southeast Missouri State moved up into the Top 25 by beating the Golden Eagles by one score...in 2 OT. The problem for me is not the ranking, it is the apparent disparity between SEMO and TTech.

- The Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens surpassed the Maine Black Bears in the AGS Poll, despite both being on BYE. Maine had 40 pts on them last week.

- Is Kennesaw State really 323 pts better than North Carolina A&T? After A&T has taken care of business and just beat a Norfolk State team as handily as #7 Montana State?

- I was reluctant to do this, but my teams #19-23 all lost (and #24 did not play), yet #20 and #24 went from unranked to ranked.

- Still not on the Austin Peay bandwagon...yet. That could change next week with win over Southeast Missouri State.

- Congratulations on Dartmouth finally making the poll. Could they surpass Princeton with a convincing win over Yale, or will they have to wait until they beat Princeton? Stay tuned.

- Despite many having trouble on #11-25, I think this poll still shook out to be a pretty darned good poll. Kudos everyone!

-----

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/6/2019 8:02:51

Your vote is listed below (previous rank in parentheses).

1: North Dakota State Bison (1)
2: James Madison Dukes (2)
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (3)
4: Weber State Wildcats (4)
5: Villanova Wildcats (5)
6: Montana State Bobcats (6)
7: Montana Grizzlies (7)
8: Furman Paladins (8)
9: Northern Iowa Panthers (11)
10: Nicholls State Colonels (20)
11: Towson Tigers (13)
12: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (9)
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies (16)
14: Kennesaw State Owls (17)
15: Maine Black Bears (15)
16: Dartmouth Big Green (19)
17: Sac State Hornets (NR)
18: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (NR)
19: Youngstown State Penguins (18)
20: Stony Brook Seawolves (NR)
21: Illinois State Redbirds (12)
22: Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles (22)
23: Central Arkansas Bears (14)
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (NR)
25: Sam Houston State Bearkats (NR)

The most significant win: Nicholls State Colonels
The most significant loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which conference does your team play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Dropped from poll: UC Davis Aggies (10), Eastern Washington Eagles (21), Samford Bulldogs (23), Houston Baptist Huskies (24), Elon Phoenix (25)

[Daytripper]

Wofford wasn't in the AGS Poll last week (not even in the ORV). Maybe you're thinking of the STATS poll?


I noticed you didn't mention anything about SHSU's wins in there. Looks like it's been covered a bit already but UND is just a single spot ahead of SHSU also outside of the top 25. I have both of them in my top 25 but I don't see how you can rank SHSU before UND at this point.

I have UND ahead of SHSU in my poll also. They should be in the top 25 in my opinion.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I noticed you didn't mention anything about SHSU's wins in there. Looks like it's been covered a bit already but UND is just a single spot ahead of SHSU also outside of the top 25. I have both of them in my top 25 but I don't see how you can rank SHSU before UND at this point.

I have UND ahead of SHSU in my poll also. They should be in the top 25 in my opinion.

#28 SHSU lost to #27 UND, but has not lost to any other unranked team AND beat both Incarnate Word and McNeese State (who I might remind you just took care of Southeastern Louisiana) in solid fashion.

UND, on the other hand, lost to an Eastern Washington team spiraling out-of-control, and almost ****ed away a victory against a UC Davis team, which by the way, is also spiraling out-of-control. Body of work on this one.

[mvemjsunpx]

(previous week in parentheses)


1. North Dakota St. (3)
2. South Dakota St. (1)
3. James Madison (2)
4. Weber St. (4)
5. Villanova (6)
6. Towson (7)
7. Kennesaw St. (10)
8. Montana St. (8)
9. Montana (12)
10. Northern Iowa (13)
11. Furman (14)
12. Sacramento St. (25)
13. Nicholls St. (17)
14. Central Arkansas (5)
15. North Carolina A&T (16)
16. Yale (18)
17. Delaware (19)
18. Southeast Missouri St. (21)
19. Dartmouth (23)
20. Princeton (24)
21. Illinois St. (9)
22. Youngstown St. (22)
23. Stony Brook (NR)
24. Austin Peay (NR)
25. North Dakota (NR)

W - Sacramento St.
L - Indiana St.


Dropped - Southeastern Louisiana (11), UC Davis (15), Indiana St. (20)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I come to a point now that I don't include any Ivys in my poll any more.

Non participant in the playoffs so not deserving to be in my poll.

My 2$

[The Yo Show]

Hello The Yo Show,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/6/2019 19:35:36

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Furman Paladins
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Kennesaw State Owls
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Nicholls State Colonels
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Towson Tigers
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: North Carolina A&T Aggies
17: Maine Black Bears
18: Elon Phoenix
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Houston Baptist Huskies
23: Youngstown State Penguins
24: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
25: Southeastern Louisiana Lions

The Yo Show

The Most Significant Win: Montana Grizzlies
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[BisonTru]

They had 1 or maybe 2 points but it was almost non existent this week.

Massey sure loves some screaming eagle. They still have EWU in the the top 25. I defended them pretty tirelessly a few weeks ago, but I can't even ride on that empty bandwagon anymore.

[caribbeanhen]

This was my crack at it this week:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Weber State Wildcats
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: Furman Paladins
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Northern Iowa Panthers
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Towson Tigers
11: Kennesaw State Owls
12: Nicholls State Colonels
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Princeton Tigers
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: North Carolina A&T Aggies
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Austin Peay Governors
21: Sac State Hornets
22: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
23: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
24: Sam Houston State Bearkats
25: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks

So far Dartmouth looks better than Princeton, it’s a close call

maybe both should be in

[nodak651]

#28 SHSU lost to #27 UND, but has not lost to any other unranked team AND beat both Incarnate Word and McNeese State (who I might remind you just took care of Southeastern Louisiana) in solid fashion.

UND, on the other hand, lost to an Eastern Washington team spiraling out-of-control, and almost ****ed away a victory against a UC Davis team, which by the way, is also spiraling out-of-control. Body of work on this one.

You had UC Davis ranked number 10 in your poll for the UND game. Now that UND beat them, they are a trash team that carries less weight than a 9 point victory vs 1-5 SFA. I mention SFA, specifically, because both UND and SHSU were out of your poll before this game. Interesting.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: Weber State Wildcats
7: Towson Tigers
8: Furman Paladins
9: Nicholls State Colonels
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: Illinois State Redbirds
13: Dartmouth Big Green
14: Kennesaw State Owls
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: Princeton Tigers
17: Youngstown State Penguins
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Central Arkansas Bears
20: Yale Bulldogs
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: Austin Peay Governors
23: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: New Hampshire Wildcats

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: Nicholls State Colonels
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[TheKingpin28]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Furman Paladins
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Towson Tigers
11: Nicholls State Colonels
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: Youngstown State Penguins
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: North Carolina A&T Aggies
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
20: Sam Houston State Bearkats
21: Princeton Tigers
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
24: Austin Peay Governors
25: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

Burn me at the stake. This was not a fun week.

[BisonTru]

A little playoff outlook based on the poll.





AL = At large





FO = First Out





NO = Next Out








Rank
Team:
Total Points
Playoff Outlook


1
North Dakota State Bison
2194
MVFC Auto


2
James Madison Dukes
2076
CAA Auto


3
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
2027
AL1


4
Weber State Wildcats
1841
Big Sky Auto


5
Villanova Wildcats
1835
AL2


6
Montana Grizzlies
1742
AL3


7
Montana State Bobcats
1646
AL4


8
Furman Paladins
1579
Southern Auto


9
Northern Iowa Panthers
1435
AL5


10
Towson Tigers
1362
AL6


11
Nicholls State Colonels
1250
Southland Auto


12
Kennesaw State Owls
1248
Big South Auto


13
North Carolina A&T Aggies
925
MEAC Champ/Bowl bid


14
Youngstown State Penguins
850
AL7


15
Illinois State Redbirds
847
AL8


16
Central Arkansas Bears
792
AL9


17
Stony Brook Seawolves
696
AL10


18
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
671
AL11


19
Maine Black Bears
516
AL12


20
Princeton Tigers
489
No playoffs


21
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
364
AL13


22
Sac State Hornets
354
AL14


23
Austin Peay Governors
302
OVC Auto


24
Dartmouth Big Green
271
No Playoffs


25
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
266
F01















ORV:




26
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
191
FO2


27
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
172
FO3


28
Sam Houston State Bearkats
152
FO4


29
UC Davis Aggies
147
NO1


30
Yale Bulldogs
98
No Playoffs


31
Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
62
NEC Auto


32
South Carolina State Bulldogs
39
NO2


33
Wofford Terriers
30
NO3


34
New Hampshire Wildcats
29
NO4


35
Houston Baptist Huskies
17



36
McNeese State Cowboys
15



37
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
14



38T
Chattanooga Mocs
11



38T
San Diego Toreros
11



40
Elon Phoenix
8








North Dakota St

1


Maine






Holy Cross















Furman

8


Kennesaw St






Austin Peay















Villanova

5


Stony Brook






Central Connecticut St















Weber St

4


Sacremento St






San Diego






















South Dakota St

3


Northern Iowa






Southeastern Louisana















Montana

6


Delaware






Nicholls St















Montana St

7


Illinois St






Central Arkansas















James Madison

2


Towson






Youngstown St

[POD Knows]

Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.That is insane BS from that voter, sorry, it just is. The Bison have lost two coaches in the run and still won Natty's, had huge losses and still won Natty's and for someone to start them outside the top 25 is idiocy. I never get too worked up over the polls and probably make mistakes myself but to have the defending National Champion and the winner of the last 7 out of 8 outside your top 25 is an outlier to the extreme. Beam me the **** up.

[cx500d]

That is insane BS from that voter, sorry, it just is. The Bison have lost two coaches in the run and still won Natty's, had huge losses and still won Natty's and for someone to start them outside the top 25 is idiocy. I never get too worked up over the polls and probably make mistakes myself but to not have the defending National Champion and the winner of the last 7 out of 8 outside your top 25 is an outlier to the extreme. Beam me the **** up.

“...to not have...[NDSU]...outside your top 25 is an outlier....”

I knew it was you sandbagging


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

I seriously don't understand how people are still voting for us.

Like do you people even watch us?I watched your entire game this past weekend, I hate you guys with the heat of a white of a white hot sun but your team showed some character in the comeback.

I had Dartmouth, SEMO, UND and JSU at 24 through 27 and basically landed on UND and JSU. I can't bring myself to having 2 Ivy's in the poll and the rest is a coin flip.

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/6/2019 9:08:56

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Weber State Wildcats
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Furman Paladins
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Towson Tigers
11: Nicholls State Colonels
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Kennesaw State Owls
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: North Carolina A&T Aggies
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Princeton Tigers
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Sac State Hornets
22: Austin Peay Governors
23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: North Dakota Fighting Hawks

[POD Knows]

It seems that Sam Houston is having to prove more than most that they belong. 4-2 with both losses coming when we were rotating QBs. One was to an FBS and the other to an (I think) FCS top 25 team in UND. Like most teams, we do have questions. But, our defense is legit (yes, I can't believe I wrote that either) and we have a stable of really good skill position players. Brock is a serviceable QB right now and if we can get a consistent running game, we could make a playoff run.I had you at 28 on my spreadsheet, moving up but I can't get the taste out of my mouth of that loss you guys had to UND, even though I ranked UND this week. I dropped Davis completely out of my polls for that and a couple other reasons even, they have hit rock bottom as far as I can tell.

[POD Knows]

“...to not have...[NDSU]...outside your top 25 is an outlier....”

I knew it was you sandbagging


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAh ****, good catch, just crappy grammar, probably because I am typing on my iPhone. I post my poll every week, trust me, it is not me that didn't have them in my top 25. they have been #1 from the start and will stay there until otherwise.

[ElCid]

Wowzers. I see what everyone was saying about having a hard time filling out anything after the top 10. Not very often a team (YSU) can lose a game and move from #15 up to #14, but when 3 teams ahead of you suffer bad losses and only 1 team below you has a good win (Nicholls), there's not much else you can do.

Wow. You read my mind and methodology precisely.

[caribbeanhen]

I come to a point now that I don't include any Ivys in my poll any more.

Non participant in the playoffs so not deserving to be in my poll.

My 2$

bias on display here,

# 4 Ivy Team put an FBS type beating on Howard, they could’ve scored 100 if they wanted to

The same Howard team that hung tough with Youngstown State for a half

Yale Had to break hard after running up 45 points in the first half against Fordham, Fordham beat Richmond, I know that’s not saying much this year though

And Princeton and Dartmouth are supposedly the class of the league

[caribbeanhen]

6 actually.

I’m not sure if this is more ridiculous than funny or funnier than ridiculous

[No_Skill]

North Dakota St

1


Maine






Holy Cross















Furman

8


Kennesaw St






Austin Peay















Villanova

5


Stony Brook






Central Connecticut St















Weber St

4


Sacremento St






San Diego






















South Dakota St

3


Northern Iowa






Southeastern Louisana















Montana

6


Delaware






Nicholls St















Montana St

7


Illinois St






Central Arkansas















James Madison

2


Towson






Youngstown St







That is a dream bracket for NDSU. No chance in hell it's remotely close. Lol

[Mike296]

Tried to get my poll in but I worked night shift on Sunday and by the time I got out it was closed. Bummer. My poll was pretty close overall though given what I had. Next week I have the weekend off so I will get my poll in this week.

[The Yo Show]

bias on display here,

# 4 Ivy Team put an FBS type beating on Howard, they could’ve scored 100 if they wanted to

The same Howard team that hung tough with Youngstown State for a half

Yale Had to break hard after running up 45 points in the first half against Fordham, Fordham beat Richmond, I know that’s not saying much this year though

And Princeton and Dartmouth are supposedly the class of the league

For the record, that Howard team lost to Harvard and played without their exceptional QB and three other starters who went onto the transfer portal. Honestly makes a big difference for that team.

[gofurman]

It has long been my opinion that it is way way harder to climb the polls than to fall out of them. It's just a product of recency bias that every voter has.

Open question. Wofford is 33rd and fell three spots this week (despite hammering ETSU). They are 3-2, but began the season as a top 10 team.

There are other 3-2 teams firmly lodged in the top 25 (UCA and Nicholls, for instance).

Are voters implicitly biased against Wofford because they started off with two consecutive losses? Would the Terriers be ranked in the top 25 if, say, they had staggered their wins and losses? Why is Wofford losing ground in the polls despite hammering three consecutive opponents?

I don't have an answer - just asking the question. Yes, I know, losing to SC State in Week 1 wasn't a good look, but should it doom them?

100% right - though less so here than STATS and COACHES. AGS is better than those.

Using WOff - our rival in a sense so I am not pro-Furman - they have now run off 3 in a row.. beat GWebb (not good team but hammered them).. won at VMI - looking better each week.. nad then this week beat on ETSU pretty well at ETSU (the same ETSU that beat Austin Peay and scared Furman).. It's like once you are out of the poll no one wants to let you back in. I like your point about the 'staggered' losses. Had Wofford won then lost then won then lost then won (as opposed to dropping their first two games) I bet they are ranked 20th even w same results.

Honestly I think Woff is top 25 as you have to look behind the scenes - they tried to be a throwing team in weeks one and somewhat week two.. went back to runnin' and haven't lost since. If they beat western they should be top 25 as how is a preseason top 10 at 4-2 not still top 25? Not the most impressive resume but beating ETSU and winnin' 4 in a row is starting to say something... UC Davis is 2-4 and still in there...

[cx500d]

bias on display here,

# 4 Ivy Team put an FBS type beating on Howard, they could’ve scored 100 if they wanted to

The same Howard team that hung tough with Youngstown State for a half

Yale Had to break hard after running up 45 points in the first half against Fordham, Fordham beat Richmond, I know that’s not saying much this year though

And Princeton and Dartmouth are supposedly the class of the league

Dude, half of the Howard team quit after the Youngstown game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Preferred Walk-On]

You had UC Davis ranked number 10 in your poll for the UND game. Now that UND beat them, they are a trash team that carries less weight than a 9 point victory vs 1-5 SFA. I mention SFA, specifically, because both UND and SHSU were out of your poll before this game. Interesting.

Thank you for your interest. You are correct. I had them at 10 (stayed at 4 after NDSU, dropped to 10 after Montana), and AGS had them at 4 after NDSU and 14 after Montana. I probably over-valued them, but I guess I shouldn't have, given that NDSU and Montana are not very good this year (sarcasm). Never said UC Davis is a trash team (please re-read the post you quoted). I said they were "spiraling out-of-control". In other words, they are on a downward trajectory...so is EWU. You want support, see this week's AGS poll (dropped to ORV).

I also find a few things interesting:

I find it interesting that you decided to cherry-pick SFA to try to support that UND is better than SHSU. I also find it interesting that you forgot (or purposely decided not) to mention some of the other games that have been played by SHSU and UND (and by their opponents). I have responded in another thread to the idea that it must be obvious that UND should be ranked above SHSU (not what you said, but what others have said and what I interpret you to be implying with your "Interesting" post above). Simply, I think both teams warrant consideration, and I went with SHSU because of their body of work (please see post from other thread at bottom of this post).

I find it interesting that a week ago, SHSU was in the ORV and UND was not. If UND should obviously be ranked above SHSU, wouldn't that have also been true last week. After all, both teams won this past weekend over 1-5 and 2-4 teams?

I find it interesting that if I remember correctly, you do not participate in the poll. You certainly like to Monday morning QB though. No worries, that is what the thread is for. I would actually respect your opinion more if you also posted a poll (just because you do not officially participate does not mean you couldn't do your own). I try to make it a point to not nitpick any individual poll (I mostly respond about the AGS poll as a whole or in response to someone's post), but I would be curious on your thoughts on the FCS landscape. My poll is posted every week.

Finally, I find it interesting that we are discussing whether or not a team should crack the top 25, and which one that should be. I cannot remember the thread exactly, but clenz had a magnificent quote in response to whether or not NAU (I think?) should be in the top 25 last year. It had something to do with, if you are arguing that your team should be in the 20-25 range... Perhaps someone can help me with this quote.


I don't see UND as having a better body of work but I weight quality wins higher than quality losses. UND has two wins that are better than any win SHSU has IMO and that includes head-to-head. UND does have a worse loss than SHSU does.


I can respect this opinion, although I don't agree with it. Which were UND's quality wins? If you are talking about over UC Davis and H2H over SHSU (I assume these are the two to which you are referring), you must also consider that UC Davis may not be nearly as good as first perceived. And the H2H is one game played when the SHSU QB was still finding his way. Also, I assume you are considering the SHSU win to be a quality win because of SHSU's quality wins (see below).

One might argue that SHSU has two quality wins as well (UIW and McNeese). McNeese just knocked off a team (SELA) that many on this forum were quite high on and UIW just beat an AGS Top 25 team (HBU). I don't remember EWU or UC Davis having any better wins, unless you consider a 3 pt win over San Diego better than the McNeese or UIW wins I just mentioned. And UND lost to EWU, who is currently not even listed in the ORV (I assume this is the worse loss to which you are referring).

The point I am trying to make is that it is neither obvious, nor a foregone conclusion that UND should be ranked above SHSU, period. In fact, I perceive SHSU's body of work as better than UND's for the reasons described above. If you make it simply a H2H, then of course, UND won the game (held on to win by 4 pt). However, this would be a myopic view after week 6, IMO. For the record, I did briefly consider putting UND at 25 and leaving SHSU out of my AGS poll ballot, so they are very close.

[caribbeanhen]

Dude, half of the Howard team quit after the Youngstown game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The rest of them quit during the Harvard game

[mvemjsunpx]

Massey sure loves some screaming eagle. They still have EWU in the the top 25. I defended them pretty tirelessly a few weeks ago, but I can't even ride on that empty bandwagon anymore.

The Masseys still have Idaho State in the top-25. xrotatehx

[Professor Chaos]

That is insane BS from that voter, sorry, it just is. The Bison have lost two coaches in the run and still won Natty's, had huge losses and still won Natty's and for someone to start them outside the top 25 is idiocy. I never get too worked up over the polls and probably make mistakes myself but to have the defending National Champion and the winner of the last 7 out of 8 outside your top 25 is an outlier to the extreme. Beam me the **** up.
If this NDSU poster who did this has been paying attention at all to the NDSU team/program that person would realize the depth they have had last year and before that and also realized that the coaching transition was as smooth as it possibly could be. It sounds to me like that voter is holding the Bison to a completely different standard than other teams.

I hate to call anyone a bad fan but let's just say that poster seems like an ignorant fan. Or maybe that person just really wanted to be the "I told you so" guy. We've had a handful of those doomsayers each year it seems like. If they're wrong nobody remembers but if they're right they can revel in being the "I told you so" guy.

[BisonBacker]

I haven't participated in the poll now for 2 years simply because right now I don't have the time to put in a well researched poll that requires at a minimum following other teams that are not in your conference and being educated enough to participate. But anyone not ranking NDSU in the top 25 to start the season and at this point in the season not at least top two doesn't belong in the poll. Quite frankly I can't see voting them anything but number 1 until someone knocks them off.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Random thoughts...by Jack Handey:

- Was a bit surprised to see Tennessee Tech **** on by voters (only 14 pts; 4 from me alone), considering that Southeast Missouri State moved up into the Top 25 by beating the Golden Eagles by one score...in 2 OT. The problem for me is not the ranking, it is the apparent disparity between SEMO and TTech.

- The Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens surpassed the Maine Black Bears in the AGS Poll, despite both being on BYE. Maine had 40 pts on them last week.

- Is Kennesaw State really 323 pts better than North Carolina A&T? After A&T has taken care of business and just beat a Norfolk State team as handily as #7 Montana State?

- I was reluctant to do this, but my teams #19-23 all lost (and #24 did not play), yet #20 and #24 went from unranked to ranked.

- Still not on the Austin Peay bandwagon...yet. That could change next week with win over Southeast Missouri State.

- Congratulations on Dartmouth finally making the poll. Could they surpass Princeton with a convincing win over Yale, or will they have to wait until they beat Princeton? Stay tuned.

- Despite many having trouble on #11-25, I think this poll still shook out to be a pretty darned good poll. Kudos everyone!

-----

Hello Preferred Walk-On,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/6/2019 8:02:51

Your vote is listed below (previous rank in parentheses).

1: North Dakota State Bison (1)
2: James Madison Dukes (2)
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (3)
4: Weber State Wildcats (4)
5: Villanova Wildcats (5)
6: Montana State Bobcats (6)
7: Montana Grizzlies (7)
8: Furman Paladins (8)
9: Northern Iowa Panthers (11)
10: Nicholls State Colonels (20)
11: Towson Tigers (13)
12: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (9)
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies (16)
14: Kennesaw State Owls (17)
15: Maine Black Bears (15)
16: Dartmouth Big Green (19)
17: Sac State Hornets (NR)
18: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (NR)
19: Youngstown State Penguins (18)
20: Stony Brook Seawolves (NR)
21: Illinois State Redbirds (12)
22: Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles (22)
23: Central Arkansas Bears (14)
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (NR)
25: Sam Houston State Bearkats (NR)

The most significant win: Nicholls State Colonels
The most significant loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which conference does your team play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Dropped from poll: UC Davis Aggies (10), Eastern Washington Eagles (21), Samford Bulldogs (23), Houston Baptist Huskies (24), Elon Phoenix (25)

....MAYBEAH....POLLSTERS FINALLY RECOGNIZED....HENS EFFORT....AGIN' PITT.........&........DUH 22 WE HUNG ON DUH BIZONSSSSS........AWK!

[caribbeanhen]

For the record, that Howard team lost to Harvard and played without their exceptional QB and three other starters who went onto the transfer portal. Honestly makes a big difference for that team.

this reply is much appreciated Yo

I knew about the QB but no idea about some of the other stuff going on at Howard so Thanks for posting

- - - Updated - - -


For the record, that Howard team lost to Harvard and played without their exceptional QB and three other starters who went onto the transfer portal. Honestly makes a big difference for that team.

this reply is much appreciated Yo

I knew about the QB but no idea about some of the other stuff going on at Howard so Thanks for posting

[Professor Chaos]

bias on display here,

# 4 Ivy Team put an FBS type beating on Howard, they could’ve scored 100 if they wanted to

The same Howard team that hung tough with Youngstown State for a half

Yale Had to break hard after running up 45 points in the first half against Fordham, Fordham beat Richmond, I know that’s not saying much this year though

And Princeton and Dartmouth are supposedly the class of the league
EDIT: Saw someone beat me to it but here's my xtwocentsx anyway. :)

I took zero away from that Harvard win over Howard. Howard has massive issues right now starting with the fact that their starting QB (and preseason MEAC player of the year) Caylin Newton quit on the team last week (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?235218-Howard-QB-Newton-looking-to-Redshirt-the-rest-of-the-season-and-possibly-transfer). Also linked in that thread are allegations about how Howard coach Ron Prince basically accused his own players of points shaving... that program looks to be incredibly toxic this year.

In the end you're still trying to trumpet the Ivies based on wins over 1-5 Howard and 2-4 Fordham. Not buying what you're selling.

[caribbeanhen]

EDIT: Saw someone beat me to it but here's my xtwocentsx anyway. :)

I took zero away from that Harvard win over Howard. Howard has massive issues right now starting with the fact that their starting QB (and preseason MEAC player of the year) Caylin Newton quit on the team last week (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?235218-Howard-QB-Newton-looking-to-Redshirt-the-rest-of-the-season-and-possibly-transfer). Also linked in that thread are allegations about how Howard coach Ron Prince basically accused his own players of points shaving... that program looks to be incredibly toxic this year.

In the end you're still trying to trumpet the Ivies based on wins over 1-5 Howard and 2-4 Fordham. Not buying what you're selling.


Well I just pointed out a fact about Harvard whipping Howard, Harvard is not in my top 25.... Now several have posted some good facts about what is going on at Howard, all good. I watched a bit of that game, with no sound mind you, and it was one of the worst beat downs I have ever seen.... I didn't know the back story and knew that if I posted on the game I would get an answer on AGS ......

Yale - another fact about applying the brakes.... they might be the best team in the Ivy League, we will see

After watching several Ivy League games last year, as well as dozens of FCS games it just became more and more apparent to me that the Ivy League was pretty good, Never thought I would be saying that

If I'm trumpeting anyone it would be Princeton last year, and Dartmouth a bit this year..... but that trumpet is really playing to try and drown out the sound of bias that I hear with a lot of voters on Ivy teams, most from interior of the country.

I mentioned to you earlier in the thread that Dartmouth looks better than Princeton this year, and maybe both deserve to be ranked because if you rank Princeton, Dartmouth is right there.

I would like to see the Ivies in the playoffs as much as anyone but I'm not going to keep them out of a poll for not participating

[Professor Chaos]

Well I just pointed out a fact about Harvard whipping Howard, Harvard is not in my top 25.... Now several have posted some good facts about what is going on at Howard, all good. I watched a bit of that game, with no sound mind you, and it was one of the worst beat downs I have ever seen.... I didn't know the back story and knew that if I posted on the game I would get an answer on AGS ......

Yale - another fact about applying the brakes.... they might be the best team in the Ivy League, we will see

After watching several Ivy League games last year, as well as dozens of FCS games it just became more and more apparent to me that the Ivy League was pretty good, Never thought I would be saying that

If I'm trumpeting anyone it would be Princeton last year, and Dartmouth a bit this year..... but that trumpet is really playing to try and drown out the sound of bias that I hear with a lot of voters on Ivy teams, most from interior of the country.

I mentioned to you earlier in the thread that Dartmouth looks better than Princeton this year, and maybe both deserve to be ranked because if you rank Princeton, Dartmouth is right there.

I would like to see the Ivies in the playoffs as much as anyone but I'm not going to keep them out of a poll for not participating
I don't have qualms about ranking multiple Ivy League teams but I find it hard to justify them in my ballot when they play the crap OOC schedules they do and then they obviously never get tested in the playoffs. Their toughest OOC matchup as a conference to date has been what? Harvard at San Diego maybe? That's pretty sad.

I don't watch Ivy League games but I also think the eye test is a very flawed metric unless you're watching every team every week. Both Dartmouth and Yale are on my radar for consideration in the top 25 but I need to see more to put them in there and that'll probably have to wait until they play each other to get a good gauge on who the cream is. I'm giving extra credit to Princeton since they haven't lost since the calendar said 2017 but I probably shouldn't even be doing that.

[Bisonator]

I would like to see the Ivies in the playoffs as much as anyone but I'm not going to keep them out of a poll for not participating
I don't keep them out of my poll just because they don't partake in the playoffs. They play garbage teams in OOC. Hard to judge teams that don't play out of their comfort zone. They obviously don't care so why should I?

[nodak651]

Thank you for your interest. You are correct. I had them at 10 (stayed at 4 after NDSU, dropped to 10 after Montana), and AGS had them at 4 after NDSU and 14 after Montana. I probably over-valued them, but I guess I shouldn't have, given that NDSU and Montana are not very good this year (sarcasm). Never said UC Davis is a trash team (please re-read the post you quoted). I said they were "spiraling out-of-control". In other words, they are on a downward trajectory...so is EWU. You want support, see this week's AGS poll (dropped to ORV).

I also find a few things interesting:

I find it interesting that you decided to cherry-pick SFA to try to support that UND is better than SHSU. I also find it interesting that you forgot (or purposely decided not) to mention some of the other games that have been played by SHSU and UND (and by their opponents). I have responded in another thread to the idea that it must be obvious that UND should be ranked above SHSU (not what you said, but what others have said and what I interpret you to be implying with your "Interesting" post above). Simply, I think both teams warrant consideration, and I went with SHSU because of their body of work (please see post from other thread at bottom of this post).

I find it interesting that a week ago, SHSU was in the ORV and UND was not. If UND should obviously be ranked above SHSU, wouldn't that have also been true last week. After all, both teams won this past weekend over 1-5 and 2-4 teams?

I find it interesting that if I remember correctly, you do not participate in the poll. You certainly like to Monday morning QB though. No worries, that is what the thread is for. I would actually respect your opinion more if you also posted a poll (just because you do not officially participate does not mean you couldn't do your own). I try to make it a point to not nitpick any individual poll (I mostly respond about the AGS poll as a whole or in response to someone's post), but I would be curious on your thoughts on the FCS landscape. My poll is posted every week.

Finally, I find it interesting that we are discussing whether or not a team should crack the top 25, and which one that should be. I cannot remember the thread exactly, but clenz had a magnificent quote in response to whether or not NAU (I think?) should be in the top 25 last year. It had something to do with, if you are arguing that your team should be in the 20-25 range... Perhaps someone can help me with this quote.

You make some fair points. I will try to respond more in detail later this week, but like BisonBacker said, I don't have enough time to be fully educated on where FCS teams are at the national level. I typically focus my time on Big Sky, MVFC, and the conferences/teams that UND plays in the non conference schedule (SHSU/Southland this year). I will make a couple points each week on the poll, but I try my best to be fair and make educated comments when I do comment on the poll. I can assure you that my poll would be worse than yours. Maybe I'll try to come up with one, but I'm not going to ruin the AGS poll by officially submitting it.

So far this year, I've really only commented on two things - one is UND, mainly because we get a lot of hate, and there aren't many people who stand up for us. I've also ripped MSU for being overrated since the pre season poll, because it was assumed that they would miraculously find a QB. I still think I'm right on this, and the Cal Poly game is probably a good example. I think MSU loses to UND at the Alerus this year. I ripped on Montana for being overrated as well, based on their overrated USD and UNA wins, but they have really turned it on the past couple weeks, and I'll admit I was wrong on them. I'll admit I was a little biased against Montana because they had so much pre season love, and UND crushed them last year 41-14, had tons back, and weren't mentioned in any of the pre season polls.

I think it was fair to mention your #10 UC Davis ranking from last week, after you discredited UND's win vs them by saying they were in a downward spiral. The good thing is that there is a lot of season to see how this stuff plays out, but I think "downward spiral" is pretty harsh - it's a description of a plane that is crashing. They are 2-4, but they have the #1 massey strength of schedule. Losing to Cal, Montana, NDSU, and UND at the Alerus does not make them a bad team.

[caribbeanhen]

I don't keep them out of my poll just because they don't partake in the playoffs. They play garbage teams in OOC. Hard to judge teams that don't play out of their comfort zone. They obviously don't care so why should I?

for the most part they do play garbage OOC Sked, but Yale did beat up on an FCS Semi finalist Maine last year

We have glimmers of data to judge them on....I wish their was more

maybe the more good Ivy teams will force the Powers in the Ivory palaces to consider playoffs?

[MSUBobcat]

You make some fair points. I will try to respond more in detail later this week, but like BisonBacker said, I don't have enough time to be fully educated on where FCS teams are at the national level. I typically focus my time on Big Sky, MVFC, and the conferences/teams that UND plays in the non conference schedule (SHSU/Southland this year). I will make a couple points each week on the poll, but I try my best to be fair and make educated comments when I do comment on the poll. I can assure you that my poll would be worse than yours. Maybe I'll try to come up with one, but I'm not going to ruin the AGS poll by officially submitting it.

So far this year, I've really only commented on two things - one is UND, mainly because we get a lot of hate, and there aren't many people who stand up for us. I've also ripped MSU for being overrated since the pre season poll, because it was assumed that they would miraculously find a QB. I still think I'm right on this, and the Cal Poly game is probably a good example. I think MSU loses to UND at the Alerus this year. I ripped on Montana for being overrated as well, based on their overrated USD and UNA wins, but they have really turned it on the past couple weeks, and I'll admit I was wrong on them. I'll admit I was a little biased against Montana because they had so much pre season love, and UND crushed them last year 41-14, had tons back, and weren't mentioned in any of the pre season polls.

I think it was fair to mention your #10 UC Davis ranking from last week, after you discredited UND's win vs them by saying they were in a downward spiral. The good thing is that there is a lot of season to see how this stuff plays out, but I think "downward spiral" is pretty harsh - it's a description of a plane that is crashing. They are 2-4, but they have the #1 massey strength of schedule. Losing to Cal, Montana, NDSU, and UND at the Alerus does not make them a bad team.

Who was ever assuming we'd find a QB??? We were one of the last 16 standing last year and maybe could have beaten a few of those remaining (Duquesne, SEMO, Wofford and Nicholls seem quite possible) had we not met up with NDSU in Round 2. I might remind you that we didn't have a QB last year either. So far this year, our rush defense is 35 ypg better than last year, though our pass defense is 24 ypg worse (skewed a bit by the 436 given up to Texas Tech, nearly 200 more than our per game average). This has led to a 2.5 point/game better scoring defense compared to last year. However, while our defense is 10 yards and 2.5 points per game better, our OFFENSE is actually rushing for 33 yards more per game than with Anderson and... here's the kicker: even without "miraculously finding a QB", we're still passing for 25 more ypg than last year, yielding an offense scoring 6.5 ppg better than last year. Can the tides turn quickly in the FCS? EWU and Davis say, "hold my beer". Is it fairly easy to justify a team that was one of the last 16 the year before and is playing better this year as a top 10 team, based on results to date? I'd say so.

As for losing to UND at the Alerus, I hope not, because I think I'm coming for the weekend. However, I might point out that UND beat Davis, who passed it all over the field for nearly 400 yards, but only rushed for 81 yards. Meanwhile, UND LOST to EWU who crazily ran the ball for 284 yards (a full 114 more than their season average, yet only 20 more than MSU averages every game) and only passed for 93 yards. Which one of those teams sounds more like MSU's offense????

[F'N Hawks]

Who was ever assuming we'd find a QB??? We were one of the last 16 standing last year and maybe could have beaten a few of those remaining (Duquesne, SEMO, Wofford and Nicholls seem quite possible) had we not met up with NDSU in Round 2. I might remind you that we didn't have a QB last year either. So far this year, our rush defense is 35 ypg better than last year, though our pass defense is 24 ypg worse (skewed a bit by the 436 given up to Texas Tech, nearly 200 more than our per game average). This has led to a 2.5 point/game better scoring defense compared to last year. However, while our defense is 10 yards and 2.5 points per game better, our OFFENSE is actually rushing for 33 yards more per game than with Anderson and... here's the kicker: even without "miraculously finding a QB", we're still passing for 25 more ypg than last year, yielding an offense scoring 6.5 ppg better than last year. Can the tides turn quickly in the FCS? EWU and Davis say, "hold my beer". Is it fairly easy to justify a team that was one of the last 16 the year before and is playing better this year as a top 10 team, based on results to date? I'd say so.

As for losing to UND at the Alerus, I hope not, because I think I'm coming for the weekend. However, I might point out that UND beat Davis, who passed it all over the field for nearly 400 yards, but only rushed for 81 yards. Meanwhile, UND LOST to EWU who crazily ran the ball for 284 yards (a full 114 more than their season average, yet only 20 more than MSU averages every game) and only passed for 93 yards. Which one of those teams sounds more like MSU's offense????

Preparing for an opponents perceived strength and getting ripped by another part of their game due to weather and not being prepared for it is certainly something to take into account. I highly doubt UND is going to prepare for MSU's passing game like they did EWU's. It took UND a half to adjust to what EWU was actually doing that day (not an excuse as I thought that was ridiculous how they got run on in the first half). With that being said UND will probably now get torched through the air vs. MSU......xlolx

[MSUBobcat]

Preparing for an opponents perceived strength and getting ripped by another part of their game due to weather and not being prepared for it is certainly something to take into account. I highly doubt UND is going to prepare for MSU's passing game like they did EWU's. It took UND a half to adjust to what EWU was actually doing that day (not an excuse as I thought that was ridiculous how they got run on in the first half). With that being said UND will probably now get torched through the air vs. MSU......xlolx

You say "weather", I say "bull ****". The "crazy weather" didn't stop UND from throwing for roughly their season average.... The games UND lost, the teams ran for at least 280 yards. For NDSU, that's normal. For EWU, it's FAR from normal. In the SHSU game, they ran for 211 yards, which is about a 33% increase from their season average. The culprit wasn't that they didn't game plan for the run; the evidence suggests that they just flat out aren't GOOD against the run. Crazy things happen in FCS, so I'm not saying UND can't stuff the Bobcat running game, but so far to date there's no evidence to remotely suggest that it would.

[F'N Hawks]

You say "weather", I say "bull ****". The "crazy weather" didn't stop UND from throwing for roughly their season average.... The games UND lost, the teams ran for at least 280 yards. For NDSU, that's normal. For EWU, it's FAR from normal. In the SHSU game, they ran for 211 yards, which is about a 33% increase from their season average. The culprit wasn't that they didn't game plan for the run; the evidence suggests that they just flat out aren't GOOD against the run. Crazy things happen in FCS, so I'm not saying UND can't stuff the Bobcat running game, but so far to date there's no evidence to remotely suggest that it would.

We'll see how the game plays out in a few weeks.

[MSUBobcat]

We'll see how the game plays out in a few weeks.

Well....... duh. Unless the world ends, I'd have to concur, Captain Obvious! I'm much, much more worried about Sac State in Bozeman this weekend, since they're the #1 BSC rush defense in total yards at a measly 96.8 ypg, even with playing 2 FBS (offset by a game against NAIA Southern Oregon).

[Mayville Bison]

17 of the 25 within one slot of the AGS consensus. A little bullish on the Griz, Sac St, and CCSU while a little unforgiving on Illinois St. First time ranking an Ivy all year and it didn't feel good. I usually wait until there's a clear top team and they typically settle in the teens range when all is said and done. I had UND and SHSU at 26/27, so they can easily jump in with a good showing this weekend.

1: North Dakota State Bison (1)
2: Montana Grizzlies (6)
3: James Madison Dukes (2)
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (3)
5: Weber State Wildcats (4)
6: Villanova Wildcats (5)
7: Montana State Bobcats (7)
8: Northern Iowa Panthers (8)
9: Furman Paladins (10)
10: Nicholls State Colonels (13)
11: Towson Tigers (11)
12: North Carolina A&T Aggies (16)
13: Sac State Hornets (22)
14: Kennesaw State Owls (18)
15: Youngstown State Penguins (17)
16: Central Arkansas Bears (12)
17: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (14)
18: Stony Brook Seawolves (21)
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (20)
20: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils (23)
21: Maine Black Bears (19)
22: Illinois State Redbirds (15)
23: Austin Peay Governors (25)
24: Princeton Tigers (NR)
25: Dartmouth Big Green (NR)

Dropped out: UC Davis (9), Houston Baptist (24)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Preparing for an opponents perceived strength and getting ripped by another part of their game due to weather and not being prepared for it is certainly something to take into account. I highly doubt UND is going to prepare for MSU's passing game like they did EWU's. It took UND a half to adjust to what EWU was actually doing that day (not an excuse as I thought that was ridiculous how they got run on in the first half). With that being said UND will probably now get torched through the air vs. MSU......xlolx

EWU has been as much a rushing team the last couple years as they have a passing team so don't know why a staff would not be prepared for that aspect with them. They averaged close to 260/game last year I think it was for rushing.

[F'N Hawks]

EWU has been as much a rushing team the last couple years as they have a passing team so don't know why a staff would not be prepared for that aspect with them. They averaged close to 260/game last year I think it was for rushing.

When watching it UND was spread out to defend the wide stuff and help on their receivers. For some reason they couldn't stop the inside zone game but figured it out at halftime...but by then they had already given up 220 yards rushing. the linebackers were missing tackles like it was their job. it appeared to me they were more worried about the passing and spread the field stuff and forgot the inside run game but who knows. It was painful to watch in the first half.

FWIW, Barriere did lead the country in passing yards coming into the game. Probably cause they were losing alot but he did nonetheless.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

When watching it UND was spread out to defend the wide stuff and help on their receivers. For some reason they couldn't stop the inside zone game but figured it out at halftime...but by then they had already given up 220 yards rushing. the linebackers were missing tackles like it was their job. it appeared to me they were more worried about the passing and spread the field stuff and forgot the inside run game but who knows. It was painful to watch in the first half.

FWIW, Barriere did lead the country in passing yards coming into the game. Probably cause they were losing alot but he did nonetheless.

Yeah that is a problem EWU presents everybody is that they still run wild out of the formations where they spread you out and if you miss a tackle...you are f'd.

They still pass well too and I did not look but Barriere was high in the passing last season as well even after a late start.

[F'N Hawks]

Yeah that is a problem EWU presents everybody is that they still run wild out of the formations where they spread you out and if you miss a tackle...you are f'd.

They still pass well too and I did not look but Barriere was high in the passing last season as well even after a late start.

Lol...UND was f'd in the first half alot. Brutal.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Lol...UND was f'd in the first half alot. Brutal.

Yeah, getting gashed really sucks.

[MSUBobcat]

When watching it UND was spread out to defend the wide stuff and help on their receivers. For some reason they couldn't stop the inside zone game but figured it out at halftime...but by then they had already given up 220 yards rushing. the linebackers were missing tackles like it was their job. it appeared to me they were more worried about the passing and spread the field stuff and forgot the inside run game but who knows. It was painful to watch in the first half.

FWIW, Barriere did lead the country in passing yards coming into the game. Probably cause they were losing alot but he did nonetheless.

Part of Barrier leading the country in passing was due to having 522 yards against Lindenwood. Prior to the game vs. UND, EWU was averaging 348 in the air and 145 on the ground (but only 329.5 and 135 ypg for the 2 FCS-only games). You held Drake... Drake... to 74 net rushing yards but they only average 107 ypg in the first place (they also had 124 yards gained, with 50 yards lost which is going to be hard to accomplish when we only drop back to pass about 14 times a game). Davis was held to 81 net rushing yards, but they only average 94.7 yards as it is, so that's not evidence of the run D standing tall either. NDSU racked up 266 net, pretty much right at their season average. As mentioned EWU netted 284 yards, a massive 67% increase over their current season average.

I'm not saying that UND can't stop the Bobcat running attack, I'm just saying looking at the stats doesn't provide any evidence of being a good rush defense. Every team we've played so far has gone in with a game plan of stopping the run and none have been successful. It also appears to me that the key to beating UND is.... running the ball and having some semblance of a defense of your own, which Davis clearly left back in 2018.

Anyway, there's still 2 games between now and then, so we can have this discussion for a whole work week in 2 weeks. I was more taking issue with the whole, "we still haven't found a QB, how are we ranked so high" argument and we got a little ahead of ourselves.

[F'N Hawks]

Part of Barrier leading the country in passing was due to having 522 yards against Lindenwood. Prior to the game vs. UND, EWU was averaging 348 in the air and 145 on the ground (but only 329.5 and 135 ypg for the 2 FCS-only games). You held Drake... Drake... to 74 net rushing yards but they only average 107 ypg in the first place (they also had 124 yards gained, with 50 yards lost which is going to be hard to accomplish when we only drop back to pass about 14 times a game). Davis was held to 81 net rushing yards, but they only average 94.7 yards as it is, so that's not evidence of the run D standing tall either. NDSU racked up 266 net, pretty much right at their season average. As mentioned EWU netted 284 yards, a massive 67% increase over their current season average.

I'm not saying that UND can't stop the Bobcat running attack, I'm just saying looking at the stats doesn't provide any evidence of being a good rush defense. Every team we've played so far has gone in with a game plan of stopping the run and none have been successful. It also appears to me that the key to beating UND is.... running the ball and having some semblance of a defense of your own, which Davis clearly left back in 2018.

Anyway, there's still 2 games between now and then, so we can have this discussion for a whole work week in 2 weeks. I was more taking issue with the whole, "we still haven't found a QB, how are we ranked so high" argument and we got a little ahead of ourselves.

Pretty sure nobody said UND has a strong rushing defense. Just pointed out the first half disaster out in Cheney and then they fixed it but it was too late. For some reason UND can never make adjustments in the 2nd quarter, always at halftime.

[MSUBobcat]

Preparing for an opponents perceived strength and getting ripped by another part of their game due to weather and not being prepared for it is certainly something to take into account. I highly doubt UND is going to prepare for MSU's passing game like they did EWU's. It took UND a half to adjust to what EWU was actually doing that day (not an excuse as I thought that was ridiculous how they got run on in the first half). With that being said UND will probably now get torched through the air vs. MSU......xlolx


Pretty sure nobody said UND has a strong rushing defense. Just pointed out the first half disaster out in Cheney and then they fixed it but it was too late. For some reason UND can never make adjustments in the 2nd quarter, always at halftime.

So this wasn't intended to imply that since UND knows what we're going to do and is going to prepare for it, they would win unless MSU torches them through the air? Got it.... So, if UND doesn't have a strong rushing defense and MSU's strength is rushing, what would you say propels the Sioux to victory? My last comment til game week. I'll hang up and listen.

[The Yo Show]

this reply is much appreciated Yo

I knew about the QB but no idea about some of the other stuff going on at Howard so Thanks for posting



You're welcome! You've set me straight before too, so always good to share information.

[Preferred Walk-On]

....MAYBEAH....POLLSTERS FINALLY RECOGNIZED....HENS EFFORT....AGIN' PITT.........&........DUH 22 WE HUNG ON DUH BIZONSSSSS........AWK!

Maybe, but they might have also forgotten the 1 pt win against Penn the week before. I know, a win is a win, but I am still a bit surprised at how high Delaware has remained in the polls. Wish they didn't miss Maine and James Madison this year and did not have to wait until the final game of the year to play Villanova. Oh well.

[Preferred Walk-On]

You make some fair points. I will try to respond more in detail later this week, but like BisonBacker said, I don't have enough time to be fully educated on where FCS teams are at the national level. I typically focus my time on Big Sky, MVFC, and the conferences/teams that UND plays in the non conference schedule (SHSU/Southland this year). I will make a couple points each week on the poll, but I try my best to be fair and make educated comments when I do comment on the poll. I can assure you that my poll would be worse than yours. Maybe I'll try to come up with one, but I'm not going to ruin the AGS poll by officially submitting it.

I appreciate the comments, and understand where you are coming from. The reason I like to participate in the poll is that it forces me to take a critical look at what else is going on throughout the FCS. I will admit that while I try to watch as much as possible on Saturdays, I also have to do some stat searching, which can sometimes be misleading. I am sure that if pressed, you would put together a poll that was thoughtful and examined the landscape further and better than you are willing to admit. But again, I can appreciate the perspective.


So far this year, I've really only commented on two things - one is UND, mainly because we get a lot of hate, and there aren't many people who stand up for us. I've also ripped MSU for being overrated since the pre season poll, because it was assumed that they would miraculously find a QB. I still think I'm right on this, and the Cal Poly game is probably a good example. I think MSU loses to UND at the Alerus this year. I ripped on Montana for being overrated as well, based on their overrated USD and UNA wins, but they have really turned it on the past couple weeks, and I'll admit I was wrong on them. I'll admit I was a little biased against Montana because they had so much pre season love, and UND crushed them last year 41-14, had tons back, and weren't mentioned in any of the pre season polls.

I think it is fair to be a supporter of your team, and I do not fault this at all (as long as it is somewhat reasonable). I am actually one of the few Bison supporters that thinks a competitive UND team is really good for the FCS landscape (see rivalries thread earlier this year). So I have no implicit bias against UND. I actually watch all the UND games every weekend, so I have some pretty strong opinions about them as well. I usually choose not to share them, because I don't want anything to be misconstrued as Bison homerism. UND is on my radar, it is just that I felt the body of work for SHSU was just a bit better (one place better to be exact), when you consider the entire FCS landscape. That said, I agree with Professor Chaos that with their schedule, if UND finishes 7-4, they will be in the playoffs.


I think it was fair to mention your #10 UC Davis ranking from last week, after you discredited UND's win vs them by saying they were in a downward spiral. The good thing is that there is a lot of season to see how this stuff plays out, but I think "downward spiral" is pretty harsh - it's a description of a plane that is crashing. They are 2-4, but they have the #1 massey strength of schedule. Losing to Cal, Montana, NDSU, and UND at the Alerus does not make them a bad team.

It is totally fair. Hell, I posted my polls, and I do so, because I believe in transparency, and I can even take and appreciate the criticism, especially when it is done with some professionalism (perhaps I am in the wrong forum for this xlolx, just kidding). A lot of the comments here are actually very informative and precisely why I prefer to participate here and not on my own team's forum. I simply pointed out that it was not just my poll that had them high, then put them in the ORV (below top 25) two weeks later - it was AGS poll voters as a whole (~90 of them).

I can appreciate that UC Davis has a tough schedule (so does Northern Colorado - Massey #7; so does Missouri State - Massey #13), but you can be an average team and still have a tough schedule. Hell, 10 of the 11 "strongest schedules" (according to Massey) are Big Sky (or former Big Sky) teams - therefore, the Big Sky must be the toughest conference this year, right? Quite honestly, I have a hard time putting a lot of stock in SOS when it looks like that (even if 10 of those top 11 were substituted with MVFC or CAA teams exclusively). It is what you do with that tough schedule, and right now, UC Davis is going to have a hard time "pulling-up" with Montana State, Weber State, and Sac State remaining for 3 of their last 6 games. Perhaps I could raise my opinion of UND's win over UC Davis, and you could lower your opinion of that win, and we could meet somewhere in the middle. If so, I suspect their resume is still not much different (or even better, currently) than SHSU. I don't think UC Davis is a bad team (still in my top 30), but they are not last year's UC Davis by any stretch of the imagination either.

[nodak651]

I appreciate the comments, and understand where you are coming from. The reason I like to participate in the poll is that it forces me to take a critical look at what else is going on throughout the FCS. I will admit that while I try to watch as much as possible on Saturdays, I also have to do some stat searching, which can sometimes be misleading. I am sure that if pressed, you would put together a poll that was thoughtful and examined the landscape further and better than you are willing to admit. But again, I can appreciate the perspective.



I think it is fair to be a supporter of your team, and I do not fault this at all (as long as it is somewhat reasonable). I am actually one of the few Bison supporters that thinks a competitive UND team is really good for the FCS landscape (see rivalries thread earlier this year). So I have no implicit bias against UND. I actually watch all the UND games every weekend, so I have some pretty strong opinions about them as well. I usually choose not to share them, because I don't want anything to be misconstrued as Bison homerism. UND is on my radar, it is just that I felt the body of work for SHSU was just a bit better (one place better to be exact), when you consider the entire FCS landscape. That said, I agree with Professor Chaos that with their schedule, if UND finishes 7-4, they will be in the playoffs.



It is totally fair. Hell, I posted my polls, and I do so, because I believe in transparency, and I can even take and appreciate the criticism, especially when it is done with some professionalism (perhaps I am in the wrong forum for this xlolx, just kidding). A lot of the comments here are actually very informative and precisely why I prefer to participate here and not on my own team's forum. I simply pointed out that it was not just my poll that had them high, then put them in the ORV (below top 25) two weeks later - it was AGS poll voters as a whole (~90 of them).

I can appreciate that UC Davis has a tough schedule (so does Northern Colorado - Massey #7; so does Missouri State - Massey #13), but you can be an average team and still have a tough schedule. Hell, 10 of the 11 "strongest schedules" (according to Massey) are Big Sky (or former Big Sky) teams - therefore, the Big Sky must be the toughest conference this year, right? Quite honestly, I have a hard time putting a lot of stock in SOS when it looks like that (even if 10 of those top 11 were substituted with MVFC or CAA teams exclusively). It is what you do with that tough schedule, and right now, UC Davis is going to have a hard time "pulling-up" with Montana State, Weber State, and Sac State remaining for 3 of their last 6 games. Perhaps I could raise my opinion of UND's win over UC Davis, and you could lower your opinion of that win, and we could meet somewhere in the middle. If so, I suspect their resume is still not much different (or even better, currently) than SHSU. I don't think UC Davis is a bad team (still in my top 30), but they are not last year's UC Davis by any stretch of the imagination either.

Completely fair. It's a dealxbeerchugx

[nodak651]

Who was ever assuming we'd find a QB??? We were one of the last 16 standing last year and maybe could have beaten a few of those remaining (Duquesne, SEMO, Wofford and Nicholls seem quite possible) had we not met up with NDSU in Round 2. I might remind you that we didn't have a QB last year either. So far this year, our rush defense is 35 ypg better than last year, though our pass defense is 24 ypg worse (skewed a bit by the 436 given up to Texas Tech, nearly 200 more than our per game average). This has led to a 2.5 point/game better scoring defense compared to last year. However, while our defense is 10 yards and 2.5 points per game better, our OFFENSE is actually rushing for 33 yards more per game than with Anderson and... here's the kicker: even without "miraculously finding a QB", we're still passing for 25 more ypg than last year, yielding an offense scoring 6.5 ppg better than last year. Can the tides turn quickly in the FCS? EWU and Davis say, "hold my beer". Is it fairly easy to justify a team that was one of the last 16 the year before and is playing better this year as a top 10 team, based on results to date? I'd say so.

As for losing to UND at the Alerus, I hope not, because I think I'm coming for the weekend. However, I might point out that UND beat Davis, who passed it all over the field for nearly 400 yards, but only rushed for 81 yards. Meanwhile, UND LOST to EWU who crazily ran the ball for 284 yards (a full 114 more than their season average, yet only 20 more than MSU averages every game) and only passed for 93 yards. Which one of those teams sounds more like MSU's offense????

MSU's pre season ranking was 12 - Pretty much everyone did. That said, I think MSU is good, just not that good. UND's rushing defense is not great, we have an undersized line, but it's at least about FCS average. Our D line is undersized, which really hurts us up the middle. I think UND will beat MSU because we can hopefully make you one dimensional-er. We have some really good CB's, and you guys don't throw the ball all that well, so I think UND will be able to stack the box and slow you down. What has hurt our run D this year has also been mobile QB's, which I don't think you have (may be wrong). I think we will be move the ball enough through the air, and the Alerus isn't always the easiest to play.

EWU was just one of those games. We were -6 in turnovers and set them up for a couple of 18 yard td drives. Can't win doing that.

[F'N Hawks]

So this wasn't intended to imply that since UND knows what we're going to do and is going to prepare for it, they would win unless MSU torches them through the air? Got it.... So, if UND doesn't have a strong rushing defense and MSU's strength is rushing, what would you say propels the Sioux to victory? My last comment til game week. I'll hang up and listen.

Geez dude, settle down.

[MSUBobcat]

Geez dude, settle down.

Well thought out, very informational post, Susan. I'll pass that along to the coaches.

[JMUNJ08]

Well, Ursus said it was an NDSU fan sandbaggin' them to #6 so that means someone had them at #2... Homer me all you want but I have had them @ #1 since Week 1 and they only lost to an FBS team by 7. The ISUr win was impressive and JMU's 3rd straight roady was lackluster (I was there so no need to wonder if I saw the game or not) but I caught myself wondering if this is the same ISUr team that ends up .500 the past few years and we overvalued them (i.e. not as impressive as it looks today). The Villanova game will be a true test and can certainly see NDSU moving up if the results are similar to last weekends

Hammer away, I hated #12 down

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Nicholls State Colonels
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Furman Paladins
11: Towson Tigers
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Youngstown State Penguins
17: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
18: Austin Peay Governors
19: Dartmouth Big Green
20: Princeton Tigers
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
23: Campbell Fighting Camels
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Stony Brook Seawolves

JMUNJ08

The Most Significant Win: Nicholls State Colonels
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association

[Professor Chaos]

Well, Ursus said it was an NDSU fan sandbaggin' them to #6 so that means someone had them at #2... Homer me all you want but I have had them @ #1 since Week 1 and they only lost to an FBS team by 7. The ISUr win was impressive and JMU's 3rd straight roady was lackluster (I was there so no need to wonder if I saw the game or not) but I caught myself wondering if this is the same ISUr team that ends up .500 the past few years and we overvalued them (i.e. not as impressive as it looks today). The Villanova game will be a true test and can certainly see NDSU moving up if the results are similar to last weekends

Hammer away, I hated #12 down

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Nicholls State Colonels
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Furman Paladins
11: Towson Tigers
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Youngstown State Penguins
17: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
18: Austin Peay Governors
19: Dartmouth Big Green
20: Princeton Tigers
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
23: Campbell Fighting Camels
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Stony Brook Seawolves

JMUNJ08

The Most Significant Win: Nicholls State Colonels
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association
Your head-scratching logic for having JMU ranked ahead of NDSU aside I have to wonder was your vote even counted? I thought the "homer vote rule" automatically disqualified any vote that included a poster's team at #1 if they were the only person to put their team at #1.

I'd guess it would have to have been since JMU got one #1 vote and if you weren't the only one they would've had at least 2. I suppose in this case it's worth making an exception since JMU is the consensus #2 so it's not that outrageous to have them 1 spot above the consensus.

[Bisonator]

Your head-scratching logic for having JMU ranked ahead of NDSU aside I have to wonder was your vote even counted? I thought the "homer vote rule" automatically disqualified any vote that included a poster's team at #1 if they were the only person to put their team at #1.

I'd guess it would have to have been since JMU got one #1 vote and if you weren't the only one they would've had at least 2. I suppose in this case it's worth making an exception since JMU is the consensus #2 so it's not that outrageous to have them 1 spot above the consensus.
I thought that too anyway I don't have a problem with JMU or any of the top 4 or 5 at #1 at this point. Still early, it'll shake out in the end.

I'd still like to see the NDSU "fan" that has them at 6 post their poll and at least offer an explanation for their reasoning to not have them in the preseason top 25.

[Catbooster]

I thought that too anyway I don't have a problem with JMU or any of the top 4 or 5 at #1 at this point. Still early, it'll shake out in the end.

I'd still like to see the NDSU "fan" that has them at 6 post their poll and at least offer an explanation for their reasoning to not have them in the preseason top 25.


I think we've basically got their reasoning:


Well, I've been listening to the rationale and although I don't agree with it I can't say it is strictly wrong either but I fully believe it to be incorrect. Basically, NDSU did not start in the T25 on their ballot to begin with due to massive losses in personnel, coaches, etc.

So basically NDSU is working their way up after not starting on the ballot.

It's just that no one considers that GOOD reasoning and wants to know who it is.

[clenz]

I don't have qualms about ranking multiple Ivy League teams but I find it hard to justify them in my ballot when they play the crap OOC schedules they do and then they obviously never get tested in the playoffs. Their toughest OOC matchup as a conference to date has been what? Harvard at San Diego maybe? That's pretty sad.
Where do you have SDSU right now...because...well...based on their schedule they shouldn't be ranked high just for beating their opponents either


@ Minnesota - loss...played an FBS tight but still lost
v LIU who is 0-4 - first year D1 got a bull**** exception to bypass the transition period. Just a garbage team
v Drake - zero athletic scholarships and lost to a sub D1
v Southern Utah - 1-5 and the 1 win was over a horrific SFA team (sorry Rev).
v Southern Illinois - consisently been a bottom 3 MVFC team for the last deacde

They haven't left within 5 hours of campus all season - and that one road game was in August.


Sure you can go "Well previous years"...but it's not previous years
Sure you can go "Well they get to test themselves in the playoffs"...but we aren't to the playoffs yet.

Their SoS up to this point of the season has to be nearly bottom 20 when looking at strictly FCS games.

So, through week 6 what has SDSU done to be a top 3 team that couldn't also be argued in support of an Ivy
and
What has an Ivy done through week 6 that couldn't also be held against SDSU?

[Bisonator]

I think we've basically got their reasoning:



It's just that no one considers that GOOD reasoning and wants to know who it is.
The problem with that reasoning is:
1. We've been here/done that before so why would you expect a different result this time - it's not like we didn't have a lot of players coming back with playing experience or coaches not familiar at all with the program.
2. It's hard to imagine NDSU not being a top 25 team in FCS at this point - sure at some point they may have a down turn and struggle but don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt considering the last 10 years?

[ST_Lawson]

2. It's hard to imagine NDSU not being a top 25 team in FBS at this point - sure at some point they may have a down turn and struggle but don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt considering the last 10 years?

Fixed it for you.

[Bisonator]

Fixed it for you.
Even a better point. Imagine not ranking Ohio State in the preseason top 25 this season. I mean after all they lost a lot of players and the coaching staff right?

[Catbooster]

The problem with that reasoning is:
1. We've been here/done that before so why would you expect a different result this time - it's not like we didn't have a lot of players coming back with playing experience or coaches not familiar at all with the program.
2. It's hard to imagine NDSU not being a top 25 team in FCS at this point - sure at some point they may have a down turn and struggle but don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt considering the last 10 years?
I agree. I'm just saying that someone posting their ballot or giving their explanation (which we already have) will make any critics think "Oh yeah, I can see that. I've changed my mind".

[Professor Chaos]

Where do you have SDSU right now...because...well...based on their schedule they shouldn't be ranked high just for beating their opponents either


@ Minnesota - loss...played an FBS tight but still lost
v LIU who is 0-4 - first year D1 got a bull**** exception to bypass the transition period. Just a garbage team
v Drake - zero athletic scholarships and lost to a sub D1
v Southern Utah - 1-5 and the 1 win was over a horrific SFA team (sorry Rev).
v Southern Illinois - consisently been a bottom 3 MVFC team for the last deacde

They haven't left within 5 hours of campus all season - and that one road game was in August.


Sure you can go "Well previous years"...but it's not previous years
Sure you can go "Well they get to test themselves in the playoffs"...but we aren't to the playoffs yet.

Their SoS up to this point of the season has to be nearly bottom 20 when looking at strictly FCS games.

So, through week 6 what has SDSU done to be a top 3 team that couldn't also be argued in support of an Ivy
and
What has an Ivy done through week 6 that couldn't also be held against SDSU?
I have SDSU at #3 and it's true that they're being propped up by a quality loss and wins over a collection of stiffs but I don't see them as a suitable comparison to Ivy League teams at all. If the Ivies did participate in the playoffs and have proven their mettle year after year like SDSU has done I would give them the benefit of the doubt just like I'm giving SDSU the benefit of the doubt. If you want to say this proves I have a bias against Ivy League teams I won't argue with you there.

[MSUBobcat]

The problem with that reasoning is:
1. We've been here/done that before so why would you expect a different result this time - it's not like we didn't have a lot of players coming back with playing experience or coaches not familiar at all with the program.
2. It's hard to imagine NDSU not being a top 25 team in FCS at this point - sure at some point they may have a down turn and struggle but don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt considering the last 10 years?

We all agree that the reasoning is.... er.... flawed. Clearly this person is the only one on AGS using that reasoning. But that IS their reasoning, silly as we all may think.

[MSUBobcat]

Where do you have SDSU right now...because...well...based on their schedule they shouldn't be ranked high just for beating their opponents either


@ Minnesota - loss...played an FBS tight but still lost
v LIU who is 0-4 - first year D1 got a bull**** exception to bypass the transition period. Just a garbage team
v Drake - zero athletic scholarships and lost to a sub D1
v Southern Utah - 1-5 and the 1 win was over a horrific SFA team (sorry Rev).
v Southern Illinois - consisently been a bottom 3 MVFC team for the last deacde

They haven't left within 5 hours of campus all season - and that one road game was in August.


Sure you can go "Well previous years"...but it's not previous years
Sure you can go "Well they get to test themselves in the playoffs"...but we aren't to the playoffs yet.

Their SoS up to this point of the season has to be nearly bottom 20 when looking at strictly FCS games.

So, through week 6 what has SDSU done to be a top 3 team that couldn't also be argued in support of an Ivy
and
What has an Ivy done through week 6 that couldn't also be held against SDSU?

I had a hard time picking their game @ YSU this week, especially with after the SIU game last week. Salukis lost to barely-ranked SEMO, which is a short bus trip, by the same amount that the #3 team beat them. I've never been to Brookings, SD, but to get there from Carbondale, I'm imagining a planes, trains and automobiles type travel. It left me less than awestruck that the #3 team, coming off a bye week, beat a mediocre, travel-weary team by only 18. Their resume is pretty bad so I'm looking forward to this weekend's game to give some guidance.

[Bisonator]

I agree. I'm just saying that someone posting their ballot or giving their explanation (which we already have) will make any critics think "Oh yeah, I can see that. I've changed my mind".


We all agree that the reasoning is.... er.... flawed. Clearly this person is the only one on AGS using that reasoning. But that IS their reasoning, silly as we all may think.
I'd just like to see the rest of their poll. I mean if they are OK with their reasoning on that I wonder what the rest of their poll looks like, maybe they should not be submitting a poll or it should not be considered. Maybe the coaches poll is more suitable for their talents. ;)

[Catbooster]

I'd just like to see the rest of their poll. I mean if they are OK with their reasoning on that I wonder what the rest of their poll looks like, maybe they should not be submitting a poll or it should not be considered. Maybe the coaches poll is more suitable for their talents. ;)
Yep. If they aren't going to post their ballot, at least I hope they're following this thread and reexamine their choices before next week's vote.

[JMUNJ08]

I thought that too anyway I don't have a problem with JMU or any of the top 4 or 5 at #1 at this point. Still early, it'll shake out in the end.

I'd still like to see the NDSU "fan" that has them at 6 post their poll and at least offer an explanation for their reasoning to not have them in the preseason top 25.

I received the confirmation email and only assume its due to I have not changed my vote to elevate JMU up and have been consistent since week 1. I know the rule as well so if it was me changing it after 6 weeks I could see it being thrown out.

That means the other voter has SDSU @ #1 and NDSU @ #6. Still interesting given the 'preseason' thing since I thought SDSU lost their do-all everything QB last year too. Interesting they weren't WAY down the list too and struggling to get to the top...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, Ursus said it was an NDSU fan sandbaggin' them to #6 so that means someone had them at #2... Homer me all you want but I have had them @ #1 since Week 1 and they only lost to an FBS team by 7. The ISUr win was impressive and JMU's 3rd straight roady was lackluster (I was there so no need to wonder if I saw the game or not) but I caught myself wondering if this is the same ISUr team that ends up .500 the past few years and we overvalued them (i.e. not as impressive as it looks today). The Villanova game will be a true test and can certainly see NDSU moving up if the results are similar to last weekends

Hammer away, I hated #12 down

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Villanova Wildcats
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Montana Grizzlies
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Nicholls State Colonels
9: Northern Iowa Panthers
10: Furman Paladins
11: Towson Tigers
12: Kennesaw State Owls
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Youngstown State Penguins
17: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
18: Austin Peay Governors
19: Dartmouth Big Green
20: Princeton Tigers
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
23: Campbell Fighting Camels
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Stony Brook Seawolves

JMUNJ08

The Most Significant Win: Nicholls State Colonels
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association

That is a bad mistake for me. I should never have let a JMU fan cast a ballot where JMU had only one first place vote. That is completely on me and this never should have happened. It sucks that I missed this.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Your head-scratching logic for having JMU ranked ahead of NDSU aside I have to wonder was your vote even counted? I thought the "homer vote rule" automatically disqualified any vote that included a poster's team at #1 if they were the only person to put their team at #1.

I'd guess it would have to have been since JMU got one #1 vote and if you weren't the only one they would've had at least 2. I suppose in this case it's worth making an exception since JMU is the consensus #2 so it's not that outrageous to have them 1 spot above the consensus.

Good point but JMU has generally had more than one first place vote and as such I didn't even think to go back and check who cast the ballot and I damn sure should have. This is a mistake on my part even if not significant I know better than this. F'n pisses me off to have missed it.

[IBleedYellow]

Well there you have it, that solo JMU vote shouldn't count.

But seriously, Ursus....in this case it doesn't matter.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think we've basically got their reasoning:



It's just that no one considers that GOOD reasoning and wants to know who it is.

You nailed it. Now at the start of the year when we didn't know anything at all about how teams would perform and that argument is made to me it can't really be refuted with any sort of foundation except what I (and others) think. So, at this point is NDSU possibly the #6 team? Seems really unlikely but in some slim fashion is it possible?

[clenz]

I had a hard time picking their game @ YSU this week, especially with after the SIU game last week. Salukis lost to barely-ranked SEMO, which is a short bus trip, by the same amount that the #3 team beat them. I've never been to Brookings, SD, but to get there from Carbondale, I'm imagining a planes, trains and automobiles type travel. It left me less than awestruck that the #3 team, coming off a bye week, beat a mediocre, travel-weary team by only 18. Their resume is pretty bad so I'm looking forward to this weekend's game to give some guidance.
I mean, it's not that different than getting to EWU for Montana State. It's maybe a 2 hour flight from Carbonale to Sioux Falls and then an hour bus ride from Sioux Falls to Brookings.

I mean from Cedar Falls to Youngstown is only an hour and a half by plane. As a plane goes it's 100 less miles from Carbondale to Sioux Falls than it is Youngstown to Cedar Falls.

It's entirely possible it took them longer to get off the plane, on a bus, and took Brookings than it did for them to leave Carbondale and land in Sioux Falls.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The problem with that reasoning is:
1. We've been here/done that before so why would you expect a different result this time - it's not like we didn't have a lot of players coming back with playing experience or coaches not familiar at all with the program.
2. It's hard to imagine NDSU not being a top 25 team in FCS at this point - sure at some point they may have a down turn and struggle but don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt considering the last 10 years?

Those are fairly identical to the arguments I made at the time and I was heavy on the returning experience in spite of returning starters argument I think if I remember correctly.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I received the confirmation email and only assume its due to I have not changed my vote to elevate JMU up and have been consistent since week 1. I know the rule as well so if it was me changing it after 6 weeks I could see it being thrown out.

That means the other voter has SDSU @ #1 and NDSU @ #6. Still interesting given the 'preseason' thing since I thought SDSU lost their do-all everything QB last year too. Interesting they weren't WAY down the list too and struggling to get to the top...

Well, I am obviously just catching up and responding to all posts as I go and this brings up a new snag because I will go review the previous weeks votes and I trust you that this was the way you have voted and as such I would not have contacted you to make a change or as would normally happen to have chucked the vote out.

Dilemma here cuz I need to figure this out with the homer rule and make sure it is known to voters before it happens again.

[Bisonator]

Those are fairly identical to the arguments I made at the time and I was heavy on the returning experience in spite of returning starters argument I think if I remember correctly.
Just post all of their polls to date, we don't need their user name, I just want to see their polls and where they have certain teams from preseason to now. This is just fascinating to me.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just post all of their polls to date, we don't need their user name, I just want to see their polls and where they have certain teams from preseason to now. This is just fascinating to me.

Well, I like to remain respectful of a voter's right to not post their poll if they don't want to and I think I'm sort of messing with that if I were to do it. I will pm and ask if it would be Okay with them for me to do that but if the answer is no then I have to respect that one.

[MSUBobcat]

Good point but JMU has generally had more than one first place vote and as such I didn't even think to go back and check who cast the ballot and I damn sure should have. This is a mistake on my part even if not significant I know better than this. F'n pisses me off to have missed it.

To be honest, maybe the rule should be revisited. If I can't vote my team 1 spot above where the consensus vote puts them, you're kind of telling me how to vote. If the Bison faithful's fragile egos can't handle not getting a unanimous 1st place vote, that's their issue. It's not like they voted their team #1 while the consensus says they should be #4. IMO, it's not nearly as bad as allowing a sandbagging poll that doesn't even include the 2x defending champ and winners of 7 of the last 8. My bigger issue with his poll isn't the perceived homer vote, it's the vote for Campbell. Campbell?!?!?!?! Was it the 2 point home win over Davidson and the 7 point win over Mercer (losers of 4 straight now) that put Campbell on his radar and then that 14 point home win over winless Presbyterian vaulted them up to #23?!?!

[Silenoz]

It was Gil!



....just kidding. Maybe.

[Bisonator]

Well, I like to remain respectful of a voter's right to not post their poll if they don't want to and I think I'm sort of messing with that if I were to do it. I will pm and ask if it would be Okay with them for me to do that but if the answer is no then I have to respect that one.
That's fair and understandable.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

To be honest, maybe the rule should be revisited. If I can't vote my team 1 spot above where the consensus vote puts them, you're kind of telling me how to vote. If the Bison faithful's fragile egos can't handle not getting a unanimous 1st place vote, that's their issue. It's not like they voted their team #1 while the consensus says they should be #4. IMO, it's not nearly as bad as allowing a sandbagging poll that doesn't even include the 2x defending champ and winners of 7 of the last 8. My bigger issue with his poll isn't the perceived homer vote, it's the vote for Campbell. Campbell?!?!?!?! Was it the 2 point home win over Davidson and the 7 point win over Mercer (losers of 4 straight now) that put Campbell on his radar and then that 14 point home win over winless Presbyterian vaulted them up to #23?!?!

When you are dealing with the 24 or 25 spot and so forth those are even harder arguments for me to get juiced up about but I would fall on your side. I need ot go and look at the homer rule in total again cuz it has been a long time since I've reviewed it and any caveats that could/should be involved with it.

It definitely needs to be reviewed and made better as we go though.

[Bisonator]

To be honest, maybe the rule should be revisited. If I can't vote my team 1 spot above where the consensus vote puts them, you're kind of telling me how to vote. If the Bison faithful's fragile egos can't handle not getting a unanimous 1st place vote, that's their issue. It's not like they voted their team #1 while the consensus says they should be #4. IMO, it's not nearly as bad as allowing a sandbagging poll that doesn't even include the 2x defending champ and winners of 7 of the last 8. My bigger issue with his poll isn't the perceived homer vote, it's the vote for Campbell. Campbell?!?!?!?! Was it the 2 point home win over Davidson and the 7 point win over Mercer (losers of 4 straight now) that put Campbell on his radar and then that 14 point home win over winless Presbyterian vaulted them up to #23?!?!
I don't think many Bison fans have an issue with a vote for JMU at #1 right now. Like I said in a previous post any of the top 5-6 could make an argument and it'll shake out eventually.

You got something against camels?:)

[MSUBobcat]

I mean, it's not that different than getting to EWU for Montana State. It's maybe a 2 hour flight from Carbonale to Sioux Falls and then an hour bus ride from Sioux Falls to Brookings.

I mean from Cedar Falls to Youngstown is only an hour and a half by plane. As a plane goes it's 100 less miles from Carbondale to Sioux Falls than it is Youngstown to Cedar Falls.

It's entirely possible it took them longer to get off the plane, on a bus, and took Brookings than it did for them to leave Carbondale and land in Sioux Falls.

I honestly didn't know if they flew out of Carbondale. My company's IT subcontractor deemed the Southern Illinois Airport's website to be a security threat, so I'm stuck with a pretty sparse Wiki page for my information. It seemed likely that it was a similar position to trying to get to Macomb.

[MSUBobcat]

I don't think many Bison fans have an issue with a vote for JMU at #1 right now. Like I said in a previous post any of the top 5-6 could make an argument and it'll shake out eventually.

You got something against camels?:)

xlolx Just trolling. You know there's people in your fanbase going, "I DON'T HAVE A FRAGILE EGO, YOU MOTHERF*****!", not realizing the irony that getting riled up over being accused of a fragile ego exactly proves that point.

As for the Camels, they started off 5-1 against a dog **** schedule last year also, with their lone loss to an FBS. They then went on to go 1-4 in the almighty Big South with their loan conference win against Presby. This year they started 4-1 against a piss poor schedule with their lone 2018 conference win already in the books. I'm just saying, maybe pump the brakes and start 'em off at 25, huh. xdrunkyx Lots of season left for the Camels to creep up to #23....

[Hammersmith]

To be honest, maybe the rule should be revisited. If I can't vote my team 1 spot above where the consensus vote puts them, you're kind of telling me how to vote. If the Bison faithful's fragile egos can't handle not getting a unanimous 1st place vote, that's their issue. It's not like they voted their team #1 while the consensus says they should be #4. IMO, it's not nearly as bad as allowing a sandbagging poll that doesn't even include the 2x defending champ and winners of 7 of the last 8. My bigger issue with his poll isn't the perceived homer vote, it's the vote for Campbell. Campbell?!?!?!?! Was it the 2 point home win over Davidson and the 7 point win over Mercer (losers of 4 straight now) that put Campbell on his radar and then that 14 point home win over winless Presbyterian vaulted them up to #23?!?!

Just want to say that the rule is not about Bison fans. The rule has been around since early in the 2006 season and predates ursus's ownership by a long, long time. The discussion is just happening because of consistency. Since the rule has been there for something like 13 years, those of us that were aware of it saw JMUNJ08's ballot, tilted our head to the side, and said, "Huh. That's odd."

[Hammersmith]

When you are dealing with the 24 or 25 spot and so forth those are even harder arguments for me to get juiced up about but I would fall on your side. I need ot go and look at the homer rule in total again cuz it has been a long time since I've reviewed it and any caveats that could/should be involved with it.

It definitely needs to be reviewed and made better as we go though.

Here's the original thread about it:
https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?13432-NEW-RULE-IMPORTANT

Seems like the debate back then is about the same as now. The most reasonable part was whether there should be an exception for teams that are consensus voted into the top-5(or whatever). But that gets back to where to draw the line? Top-3? 5? 10? How high does a team need to get before a single homer #1 vote is counted?



And the rational for the whole rule is that #1 votes is that they are different than any other vote because they are displayed separately. The poll doesn't list how many 2nd or 3rd place votes a team receives, only 1st. And that can throw the legitimacy of the poll into question when you have a team ranked 22 getting a #1 vote.


Also, I had forgotten just how much of a dick Ralph used to be. Wow. And thank you ursus for not doing that stupid "I'm not the owner, I'm just a regular poster" sort of thing.

[clenz]

I fought the homer rule for years...IIRC it was 89 that made god damn sure my arguments for it were shot down instantly.

[Preferred Walk-On]

When you are dealing with the 24 or 25 spot and so forth those are even harder arguments for me to get juiced up about but I would fall on your side. I need ot go and look at the homer rule in total again cuz it has been a long time since I've reviewed it and any caveats that could/should be involved with it.

It definitely needs to be reviewed and made better as we go though.

Please forgive my naivety on this. I assume the rules for poll voting are posted somewhere; however, after some searching ("poll voting rules"), I have not been able to find them (I am sure they are somewhere obvious and I am missing them).

If one could post a link to them, it would be much appreciated.

As for other points of the discussion, I might ask the voter if s/he is willing to post their poll (not if you could post it). This keeps you out of the business of posting other's polls. If that person does not want to post, they don't have to. In fact, most people do not post their polls. It is really on the poll committee to determine the validity of a poll in accepting it into the overall results, and so far, it has been deemed valid.

I think where ranking a #1-2 team #6-7 might come into play is if 2-3 teams were in a heated competition for 1st place votes, where points might allow the team with more 2nd place votes to be the 1st place team (assuming points is the first determining factor). In this case, it does not matter, but it does matter a bit for poll validity. That said, it is possible that two different people see two teams as seven places apart (see most polls posted weekly). That said, it is usually teams outside of the top 10 where this disparity in ranking normally takes place.

As a Bison fan, I am not offended, nor does it really matter to me. What it really tells me though is that this person probably should start their poll after week 2, as this would provide some game data to put personnel losses into some context. I agree with most of the other posters that 10 yr of equity (oh, and defending national champion) should equate to at least preseason Top 25; however, we have all seen what equity can do (see Colgate preseason ranking) - that was 1 yr equity though, not 10.

[Professor Chaos]

When you are dealing with the 24 or 25 spot and so forth those are even harder arguments for me to get juiced up about but I would fall on your side. I need ot go and look at the homer rule in total again cuz it has been a long time since I've reviewed it and any caveats that could/should be involved with it.

It definitely needs to be reviewed and made better as we go though.
Yeah, this situation really shows how the rule is flawed. In JMU08's case he hasn't changed his #1 vote since the season started but because others have his vote became invalidated due to the rule which is a little unfair. I do see the reason behind being more cognizant of homerism with #1 votes since we include those as part of the poll release. It's also hard to include a stipulation that the ballot is only in violation if the homer's team is outside of the consensus top 5 or 10 because the vote could come in late Saturday night or early Sunday when we have no idea what the consensus order might eventually be. I'd be for scrapping the rule but putting a feeler out to the voter asking them to justify their position (like you'd do for any other eyebrow raising piece of their ballot) and let them know that they are the only voter (so far) to vote their team #1 so they can self-reflect a bit on whether they're being too much of a homer (which I don't think JMU08 is being in this case for reasons already mentioned).

The nice thing about the rule is if we do see an odd team a bit down the line with a first place vote it's easy to refute a comment like "must just be a blind homer" in criticism of it.

[MSUBobcat]

Just want to say that the rule is not about Bison fans. The rule has been around since early in the 2006 season and predates ursus's ownership by a long, long time. The discussion is just happening because of consistency. Since the rule has been there for something like 13 years, those of us that were aware of it saw JMUNJ08's ballot, tilted our head to the side, and said, "Huh. That's odd."

See comment a few minutes before yours about trolling.


Here's the original thread about it:
https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?13432-NEW-RULE-IMPORTANT

Seems like the debate back then is about the same as now.

Yeah, same arguments exist because a hard and fast rule with no room for subjectivity seems pretty harsh. A simple caveat allowing a sole #1 vote from a team's fan is allowed provided a) they are the consensus #2 and b) that single extra point does not end up causing said team to become the consensus #2 (i.e. they were only 1 point ahead of the consensus #3). If both conditions are not met, the vote is thrown out.

IMO, the rule may be a disincentive for multiple fans of a #2 team to vote their team #1 in the worry that their vote would be the only one and would therefore automatically cause their poll to be rejected. Perhaps there are other JMU fans (only as a current example) that would vote them #1, but they don't because if no one else votes their true conviction, their poll doesn't count. As a hypothetical, say NDSU wins a hard fought game against a ranked UNI team this weekend, but SDSU goes to YSU and completely blows the doors off the Guins. I mean, just kicks their ass up and down the field. An SDSU fan now has to wonder if the sole person who has been voting SDSU #1 has changed their tune, because if so, their vote is in jeopardy of not counting. xtwocentsx

[Professor Chaos]

See comment a few minutes before yours about trolling.



Yeah, same arguments exist because a hard and fast rule with no room for subjectivity seems pretty harsh. A simple caveat allowing a sole #1 vote from a team's fan is allowed provided a) they are the consensus #2 and b) that single extra point does not end up causing said team to become the consensus #2 (i.e. they were only 1 point ahead of the consensus #3). If both conditions are not met, the vote is thrown out.

IMO, the rule may be a disincentive for multiple fans of a #2 team to vote their team #1 in the worry that their vote would be the only one and would therefore automatically cause their poll to be rejected. Perhaps there are other JMU fans (only as a current example) that would vote them #1, but they don't because if no one else votes their true conviction, their poll doesn't count. As a hypothetical, say NDSU wins a hard fought game against a ranked UNI team this weekend, but SDSU goes to YSU and completely blows the doors off the Guins. I mean, just kicks their ass up and down the field. An SDSU fan now has to wonder if the sole person who has been voting SDSU #1 has changed their tune, because if so, their vote is in jeopardy of not counting. xtwocentsx
Or what if two JMU fans conspire to both vote their team #1 to get each other off the hook???? AGS Poll-gate 2019!!!!

[MSUBobcat]

Or what if two JMU fans conspire to both vote their team #1 to get each other off the hook???? AGS Poll-gate 2019!!!!

I was actually going to bring that up. A fan of #2 Team X legitimately feels their team is better than #1 Team Y, so they get in contact with other voters who are also fans of Team X to put out feelers to make sure their vote counts. Just seems like we're getting away from letting people vote their opinion. Now if everyone thinks your team is #18, we better not see the (1) next to your team in the poll xtroublex

The next progression of this rule is, "If the only polls with Team X as the #1 team were also fans of Team X, all polls are thrown out." What's the line? If 5 fans of Team X are the only ones to vote them #1, all 5 are thrown out? How about 7? What about 10? How about NO ONE can vote for their team as #1 until said team reaches #1 with all the other fanbases.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Here's the original thread about it:
https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?13432-NEW-RULE-IMPORTANT

Seems like the debate back then is about the same as now. The most reasonable part was whether there should be an exception for teams that are consensus voted into the top-5(or whatever). But that gets back to where to draw the line? Top-3? 5? 10? How high does a team need to get before a single homer #1 vote is counted?



And the rational for the whole rule is that #1 votes is that they are different than any other vote because they are displayed separately. The poll doesn't list how many 2nd or 3rd place votes a team receives, only 1st. And that can throw the legitimacy of the poll into question when you have a team ranked 22 getting a #1 vote.


Also, I had forgotten just how much of a dick Ralph used to be. Wow. And thank you ursus for not doing that stupid "I'm not the owner, I'm just a regular poster" sort of thing.

Well, on that last line I am both at different times. Any time I argue with anyone as a fan they will never have any worry that there will be any steps against them in any way. At that point we are both just posters arguing a point and any shots leveled or name calling is treated with less, not more gravity.

But when someone is doing something to others then I do act as owner to curtail those things for the overall board experience. I really appreciate that you have taken notice though Hammer. I do not relish ever having to act as owner btw...it sucks.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, this situation really shows how the rule is flawed. In JMU08's case he hasn't changed his #1 vote since the season started but because others have his vote became invalidated due to the rule which is a little unfair. I do see the reason behind being more cognizant of homerism with #1 votes since we include those as part of the poll release. It's also hard to include a stipulation that the ballot is only in violation if the homer's team is outside of the consensus top 5 or 10 because the vote could come in late Saturday night or early Sunday when we have no idea what the consensus order might eventually be. I'd be for scrapping the rule but putting a feeler out to the voter asking them to justify their position (like you'd do for any other eyebrow raising piece of their ballot) and let them know that they are the only voter (so far) to vote their team #1 so they can self-reflect a bit on whether they're being too much of a homer (which I don't think JMU08 is being in this case for reasons already mentioned).

The nice thing about the rule is if we do see an odd team a bit down the line with a first place vote it's easy to refute a comment like "must just be a blind homer" in criticism of it.

Yes, I definitely need to review this whole thing and find a better way due to these new occurrences. I will say that the vote was not invalidated so it did count and I never invalidate anyone's vote I give them the choice to change their mind by doing exactly as you said (ask clenz) or letting them know if they don't think that the solo #1 homer vote falls under the homer rule and I would have to discard it...and I've even waited until the poll closed to see if any others would arrive with a similar 1 vote before changing it for them..if they chose that.

Why do small things that almost never happen require so damn much thinking? xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

See comment a few minutes before yours about trolling.



Yeah, same arguments exist because a hard and fast rule with no room for subjectivity seems pretty harsh. A simple caveat allowing a sole #1 vote from a team's fan is allowed provided a) they are the consensus #2 and b) that single extra point does not end up causing said team to become the consensus #2 (i.e. they were only 1 point ahead of the consensus #3). If both conditions are not met, the vote is thrown out.

IMO, the rule may be a disincentive for multiple fans of a #2 team to vote their team #1 in the worry that their vote would be the only one and would therefore automatically cause their poll to be rejected. Perhaps there are other JMU fans (only as a current example) that would vote them #1, but they don't because if no one else votes their true conviction, their poll doesn't count. As a hypothetical, say NDSU wins a hard fought game against a ranked UNI team this weekend, but SDSU goes to YSU and completely blows the doors off the Guins. I mean, just kicks their ass up and down the field. An SDSU fan now has to wonder if the sole person who has been voting SDSU #1 has changed their tune, because if so, their vote is in jeopardy of not counting. xtwocentsx

Any and all voters should know that they should vote their conscience first and foremost and then leave any problems like that to me to sort out. I will never, ever throw a vote out without contacting that voter and trying to work out a resolution to the problem. I have email conversations each and every week (about 10 at least) over matters of less importance that this for instance.

It really is a thing to revisit and go over with the ovters and review what we do. It's a great philosophical question to go over and get a consensus on. I love the arguments, they are great.

JMUNJ08 has done me and the AGS Poll a real favor to being even better going forward with the way we do things. I see a Poll Voter discussion vote coming up at some point after a discussion it would appear.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Or what if two JMU fans conspire to both vote their team #1 to get each other off the hook???? AGS Poll-gate 2019!!!!

I always ran it that it had to be a member from another team but that same thing could happen if voters lacked integrity and I refuse to believe that possible with our voters. If it is possible may God have mercy on their souls cuz ursus will not.:D

[Preferred Walk-On]

Any and all voters should know that they should vote their conscience first and foremost and then leave any problems like that to me to sort out. I will never, ever throw a vote out without contacting that voter and trying to work out a resolution to the problem. I have email conversations each and every week (about 10 at least) over matters of less importance that this for instance.

It really is a thing to revisit and go over with the ovters and review what we do. It's a great philosophical question to go over and get a consensus on. I love the arguments, they are great.

JMUNJ08 has done me and the AGS Poll a real favor to being even better going forward with the way we do things. I see a Poll Voter discussion vote coming up at some point after a discussion it would appear.xthumbsupx

I would just like to add that JMUNJ08 is one of the approximately 11% of voters (~10/90 each week) that have posted polls in a previous week. In my opinion, this provides some validation to JMUNJ08's vote, in that they are not afraid to be transparent about it. Kudos!

Also, want to say that I have enjoyed watching NDSU slowly earn their way up mvemjsunpx's ballot each week. I would only know this, because their ballot has been posted every week (preseason rankings included in week 1 ballot). Kudos as well!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I would just like to add that JMUNJ08 is one of the approximately 11% of voters (~10/90 each week) that have posted polls in a previous week. In my opinion, this provides some validation to JMUNJ08's vote, in that they are not afraid to be transparent about it. Kudos!

Also, want to say that I have enjoyed watching NDSU slowly earn their way up mvemjsunpx's ballot each week. I would only know this, because their ballot has been posted every week (preseason rankings included in week 1 ballot). Kudos as well!

I don't think I answered your previous question and I assumed I had that "stuck" in the AGS Poll forum but if you have not come accross it then I must not have so I will fix that going forward here as soon as I find the thread on it. Appreciate you making it better as well btw.

[MSUBobcat]

I always ran it that it had to be a member from another team but that same thing could happen if voters lacked integrity and I refuse to believe that possible with our voters. If it is possible may God have mercy on their souls cuz ursus will not.:D

Seems the common thread from both this discussion, as well as all the weekly poll results I've seen, is that the overwhelming majority of people have integrity and vote how they truly feel. Erroneous votes for UND that were meant for NDSU notwithstanding.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I donno man, the AGS poll has been pretty good/consistent. The only way to toss outliers is to crunch the data and toss anything out of the normal distribution. A few skewed data points really don't have any impact on the overall poll right now anyway, so why mess with it? My feelings wouldn't get hurt if my poll got scrapped for being a little crazy. I don't submit a poll though so I am disqualified from having a opinion. :)

[Silenoz]

I don't submit a poll though so I am disqualified from having a opinion. :)
https://external-preview.redd.it/clBZbddfvAklUr7tImR3CDoW2Se7m7TC6zunhOojWKo.png?wi dth=610&auto=webp&9df4ec50
31156

[Hammersmith]

Well, on that last line I am both at different times. Any time I argue with anyone as a fan they will never have any worry that there will be any steps against them in any way. At that point we are both just posters arguing a point and any shots leveled or name calling is treated with less, not more gravity.

But when someone is doing something to others then I do act as owner to curtail those things for the overall board experience. I really appreciate that you have taken notice though Hammer. I do not relish ever having to act as owner btw...it sucks.

It's perfectly okay to be a dick from time to time. :D And you've been good so far about being clear about when you're posting as just a guy and when you're posting as owner/admin.

I will say I like Tony's approach a bit better over at Bisonville where he has a separate account for each, but it's not a big deal to just do it with a single account as long as you're clear about it when you are acting as admin.

What was stupid back then was Ralph having separate accounts and then pretending he wasn't the admin. Sure Tony has separate accounts at BV, but he's totally open about it. It's the childish lying that's idiotic. And don't get me started about the whole 'secret moderator' thing; that was idiotic raised to the power of moronic.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's perfectly okay to be a dick from time to time. :D And you've been good so far about being clear about when you're posting as just a guy and when you're posting as owner/admin.

I will say I like Tony's approach a bit better over at Bisonville where he has a separate account for each, but it's not a big deal to just do it with a single account as long as you're clear about it when you are acting as admin.

What was stupid back then was Ralph having separate accounts and then pretending he wasn't the admin. Sure Tony has separate accounts at BV, but he's totally open about it. It's the childish lying that's idiotic. And don't get me started about the whole 'secret moderator' thing; that was idiotic raised to the power of moronic.

Those are the exact reason that I use primarily only the one account but his way of doing things seems very transparent as well so maybe it is better. But I took great pains to get rid off all "Mod/Admin" accounts and so forth so it was all completely open as to who users were dealing with.

Plus, I don't like checking pm's on extra accounts and so forth. xlolx

[Hammersmith]

Yeah, this situation really shows how the rule is flawed. In JMU08's case he hasn't changed his #1 vote since the season started but because others have his vote became invalidated due to the rule which is a little unfair. I do see the reason behind being more cognizant of homerism with #1 votes since we include those as part of the poll release. It's also hard to include a stipulation that the ballot is only in violation if the homer's team is outside of the consensus top 5 or 10 because the vote could come in late Saturday night or early Sunday when we have no idea what the consensus order might eventually be. I'd be for scrapping the rule but putting a feeler out to the voter asking them to justify their position (like you'd do for any other eyebrow raising piece of their ballot) and let them know that they are the only voter (so far) to vote their team #1 so they can self-reflect a bit on whether they're being too much of a homer (which I don't think JMU08 is being in this case for reasons already mentioned).

The nice thing about the rule is if we do see an odd team a bit down the line with a first place vote it's easy to refute a comment like "must just be a blind homer" in criticism of it.

The rule might be flawed a bit(most rules are), but how often do we see a situation like this? Normally a team will either get several #1 votes, or none at all. I bet if we were to go back through the 15ish years of the poll, there have only been a few times like this where a #2 or #3 team only got a single #1 vote from a fan of that team. Is it okay to keep a rule that has no negative effects 95% of the time, but has positive effects far more often?

Now, I could see an argument saying that AGS voters have gotten more serious as a group and the rule isn't needed any more, but only ursus and anyone that helps with the poll could tell us that. It sounds like there were more voters who didn't take things seriously way back then, or even some disgruntled posters who tried to mess things up with their ballots. They were only a small fraction of the overall polling group, but maybe enough to be disruptive to the early poll. It's possible that this set of training wheels has served its purpose. Not for me to say(I don't even vote. :))

[Hammersmith]

Those are the exact reason that I use primarily only the one account but his way of doing things seems very transparent as well so maybe it is better. But I took great pains to get rid off all "Mod/Admin" accounts and so forth so it was all completely open as to who users were dealing with.

Plus, I don't like checking pm's on extra accounts and so forth. xlolx

When I said a bit better, I really did mean just a bit. Like 1 and 1a. Plus it's funny when he does something using the admin account(he calls it the angry elf) and then forgets to re-login to his regular account. We all get a grin out of that. :)

[dewey]

Here is my top 25.

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/6/2019 20:08:42

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Weber State Wildcats
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
7: Furman Paladins
8: Towson Tigers
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Nicholls State Colonels
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Kennesaw State Owls
14: Princeton Tigers
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Illinois State Redbirds
17: Youngstown State Penguins
18: Maine Black Bears
19: Austin Peay Governors
20: North Carolina A&T Aggies
21: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: Central Arkansas Bears
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Sac State Hornets

dewey

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: UC Davis Aggies
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Dewey

[RabidRabbit]

Since JMUNJ08 has consistently voted JMU #1, along with several others in the past, just because he's the only one this week shouldn't invalidate his vote, or even necessarily call it into question, as long as JMU is winning. I'd hope that should the Jackrabbits upend Bizun 10/26, and neither team loses between now and then, that I won't be the only voter for SDSU. So far, as Clenz points out, SDSU has run roughshod over a 4 pack of underwhelming opponents. Are they worthy of #3? Yes, much like UNI, due to the close FBS loss.

[clenz]

I watched the LIU Drake and SIU games. You really wanna call those games running roughshod?

I mean... Okay

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[NDSU1980]

Maybe I'm imagining things, but I could swear that 3 or 4 years ago the rule on homer voting for your own team was there had to 5 other number 1 votes for your team or the vote didn't count. Seems like that would be fair.

[Katfan]

You nailed it. Now at the start of the year when we didn't know anything at all about how teams would perform and that argument is made to me it can't really be refuted with any sort of foundation except what I (and others) think. So, at this point is NDSU possibly the #6 team? Seems really unlikely but in some slim fashion is it possible?
At this point? At no point in the last 10 have their been 5 FCS teams better than NDSU. The only question in any year! Is there one. Not rationale observer of FCS football could argue rationally, otherwise.

[JMUNJ08]

Damn, so much bluster over voting Campbell @ #23!!!! xcoolx Yes, that is a mistake and should have been #25 giving SB a little more love (was not impressed with their 'vaunted' run offense or defense...).

I appreciate that there seems to be some actual real dialog on this forum (who knew!) and not being mercilessly crucified for somehow skirting the homer rule.

Had to wait to get home to see my historical ballot and its been JMU/ NDSU/ SDSU unchanged since week #1 (I missed the preseason). This really is a one off case and of course will change next week given the 2 top 10 matchups (unless of course they turn out the exact same...). I think it just comes down to Ursus/ mods to ask the question and get the voter's thoughts with no reason to update the rules/ have them be hard & fast. I'm sure he didn't think twice because there IS an argument to have JMU @ #1 and has been that way all season. Realize I'm in the minority but to say I'd have to change my vote after that being my order for 5 straight weeks would be rough (been a voter since '09 or '10 and only taking a year off IIRC).

[JMUNJ08]

Or what if two JMU fans conspire to both vote their team #1 to get each other off the hook???? AGS Poll-gate 2019!!!!

I need to get on the phones! Just need Ursus' rolodex...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Maybe I'm imagining things, but I could swear that 3 or 4 years ago the rule on homer voting for your own team was there had to 5 other number 1 votes for your team or the vote didn't count. Seems like that would be fair.

No brother, not here anyway.

[MSUBobcat]

Damn, so much bluster over voting Campbell @ #23!!!! xcoolx Yes, that is a mistake and should have been #25 giving SB a little more love (was not impressed with their 'vaunted' run offense or defense...).

I appreciate that there seems to be some actual real dialog on this forum (who knew!) and not being mercilessly crucified for somehow skirting the homer rule.

Had to wait to get home to see my historical ballot and its been JMU/ NDSU/ SDSU unchanged since week #1 (I missed the preseason). This really is a one off case and of course will change next week given the 2 top 10 matchups (unless of course they turn out the exact same...). I think it just comes down to Ursus/ mods to ask the question and get the voter's thoughts with no reason to update the rules/ have them be hard & fast. I'm sure he didn't think twice because there IS an argument to have JMU @ #1 and has been that way all season. Realize I'm in the minority but to say I'd have to change my vote after that being my order for 5 straight weeks would be rough (been a voter since '09 or '10 and only taking a year off IIRC).

Just busting yer balls. But yes, I think you got more splainin' to do over the Campbell vote than the JMU vote. Lost to Troy BADLY (Troy's only other win was over the winless Akron Zips, who even lost to a TERRIBLE UMASS team. UMASS got CRUSHED by the Salukis). Beat Shaw (who the **** is that?) 2 point win at home over non-scholly Davidson? Beating Presby, who hasn't won a D-I game since 2017? The 7 point win over 2-4 Mercer is their "signature win" xlolx I just don't see what you're seeing at this point.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

At this point? At no point in the last 10 have their been 5 FCS teams better than NDSU. The only question in any year! Is there one. Not rationale observer of FCS football could argue rationally, otherwise.

And yet these are all opinions so it can happen. As I stated it was not one that I share so don't come off like it was me making the assertion.

I can't take someone that has a ballot that is reasonably close to what the rest of us have and just chuck them out over it. It takes a bit more nuance and so forth to try and keep the people putting time into this than just saying "**** you, this is ****, we're getting rid of your effort". I see a whole lot of people always saying that this ballot or that ballot should chucked and people should be booted from the poll for a difference of opinion on teams but if I did stuff like that to people that are trying to vote with integrity and a different opinion, we might have 10 people left voting.

I know you did not overtly assert that but it is in line with those sorts of comments so I wanted to put it out there that decisions like that are easy to make when you aren't the one that has to make them for the overall good of the product.

I agree with your statement though. I don't want that to be misinterpreted.xthumbsupx

[Katfan]

And yet these are all opinions so it can happen. As I stated it was not one that I share so don't come off like it was me making the assertion.

I can't take someone that has a ballot that is reasonably close to what the rest of us have and just chuck them out over it. It takes a bit more nuance and so forth to try and keep the people putting time into this than just saying "**** you, this is ****, we're getting rid of your effort". I see a whole lot of people always saying that this ballot or that ballot should chucked and people should be booted from the poll for a difference of opinion on teams but if I did stuff like that to people that are trying to vote with integrity and a different opinion, we might have 10 people left voting.

I know you did not overtly assert that but it is in line with those sorts of comments so I wanted to put it out there that decisions like that are easy to make when you aren't the one that has to make them for the overall good of the product.

I agree with your statement though. I don't want that to be misinterpreted.xthumbsupx
I meant in no why to imply anything about you! I truly appreciate the work you do putting together the poll and all those who take the time and effort to cast votes. I just watch a lot of FCS games and have been on hand to witness NDSU first hand and can’t understand how anyone who follows FCS football enough to participate in the poll could seriously think there are 5 teams better than the Bison!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I meant in no why to imply anything about you! I truly appreciate the work you do putting together the poll and all those who take the time and effort to cast votes. I just watch a lot of FCS games and have been on hand to witness NDSU first hand and can’t understand how anyone who follows FCS football enough to participate in the poll could seriously think there are 5 teams better than the Bison!

Me either. I just sort of read that as you thinking it is was my logic but get what you are saying now.

[NDSU1980]

No brother, not here anyway.OK thanks for clarifying. Beats me where I got that idea from.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Just busting yer balls. But yes, I think you got more splainin' to do over the Campbell vote than the JMU vote. Lost to Troy BADLY (Troy's only other win was over the winless Akron Zips, who even lost to a TERRIBLE UMASS team. UMASS got CRUSHED by the Salukis). Beat Shaw (who the **** is that?) 2 point win at home over non-scholly Davidson? Beating Presby, who hasn't won a D-I game since 2017? The 7 point win over 2-4 Mercer is their "signature win" xlolx I just don't see what you're seeing at this point.

Massey Composite of 40+ polls has 4-1 Campbell ranked 68th ... sure they're 4-1, but they played the 115th ranked SOS according to Massey, and they're barely beating these weak teams. Throw out the FBS loss and D-II win, and they're 3-0 against 3 weak teams, winning by average of 8 points per game against teams ranked in the botton 25 of FCS.

They are not even a bubble team with those results. Again, the Massey Composite has them right in the middle at #68 ... seems about right.