Jesse Jackson is bored

[AppGuy04]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/05/07/0508bravesminority.html?cxntnid=brv050807e

[Col Hogan]

I've seen a lot written on this subject recently...

Here's another Point of View...

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/13/commentary/sportsbiz/index.htm

[bison95]

There should be greater things to worry about! MLB teams don't give a flying Frick about anything other than if you can play!

These Pot stiring fools just need someone to bitch at or aboutxnonono2x xnonono2x

[HIU 93]

I've seen a lot written on this subject recently...

Here's another Point of View...

http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/13/commentary/sportsbiz/index.htm

Neither of these stories is exactly true. There are Blacks on these teams, just not American Blacks. Andruw Jones is Black, he just happens to be from the Dominican. As does David Ortiz, Sammy Sosa, and numerous other players who are identified as and identify themselves as Latin American. Nationality does not determine race.

[Marcus Garvey]

I saw the thread title and laughed my arse off.
I've always assumed Jesse was perpetually bored. That would make a whole lot of sense.

[*****]

... There are Blacks on these teams, just not American Blacks... players who are identified as and identify themselves as Latin American. Nationality does not determine race.Every person of color is not "Black" either. Latinos, Pacific Islanders, Cubans, etc. How do you lump them in as "Black"?

[AppGuy04]

I'm not understanding how Latinos are black?

[MarkCCU]

I'm not understanding how Latinos are black?

Yeah, them and the Cubans seem to be more of Hispanic descent to me.

[AppGuy04]

If Latinos were considered black, then blacks would be growing in MLB, not decliningxtwocentsx

[MarkCCU]

If Latinos were considered black, then blacks would be growing in MLB, not declining

Exactly. isn't Bobby Abreau latino?

[MarkCCU]

Jesse needs to keep his name fresh in everdsone's minds. He's a shakedown artist, he is a racists.

[*****]

Jesse needs to keep his name fresh in everdsone's minds. He's a shakedown artist, he is a racists.Wow, you are real quick to throw that term around, no matter how badly you mangle the spelling... xrolleyesx

[Marcus Garvey]

I know that back in the dark ages of MLB (i.e., pre-Jackie Robinson), latino players who were too dark skinned, or "black" weren't allowed to play. Only those with fair skin were ever given a shot in the Majors.

[*****]

I know that back in the dark ages of MLB (i.e., pre-Jackie Robinson), latino players who were too dark skinned, or "black" weren't allowed to play. Only those with fair skin were ever given a shot in the Majors.Yes, the first "Black" players in the major leagues played in the 1800s.

[HIU 93]

Every person of color is not "Black" either. Latinos, Pacific Islanders, Cubans, etc. How do you lump them in as "Black"?

Because I can see. I am also a student of history. Let's just take a look at a few of those players in question.

David Ortiz

[mcveyrl]

Neither of these stories is exactly true. There are Blacks on these teams, just not American Blacks. Andruw Jones is Black, he just happens to be from the Dominican. As does David Ortiz, Sammy Sosa, and numerous other players who are identified as and identify themselves as Latin American. Nationality does not determine race.


I agree with the point, but I think Andruw is from the Netherlands (which actually, I think, enhances the point).

[HIU 93]

Yes, the first "Black" players in the major leagues played in the 1800s.

Andruw Jones

[dbackjon]

I'm not understanding how Latinos are black?

In the Caribbean, the majority of people are descended from African Slaves. Just because they grew up in a country where Spanish was the primary language doesn't make them any less black.

The proper stat I guess would be the number of Americans who descended from Africans and play in MLB is declining.

[GoldandBlack]

Wouldn't it be great, if starting from scratch today, we just called them all "people" and went on with really important stuff???xrolleyesx

[HIU 93]

Every person of color is not "Black" either. Latinos, Pacific Islanders, Cubans, etc. How do you lump them in as "Black"?

Sammy Sosa

[dbackjon]

I agree with the point, but I think Andruw is from the Netherlands (which actually, I think, enhances the point).

He is from Curacao, a Dutch possesion in the Caribbean. African ancestory, descended from slaves.

[Dukie95]

I don't think Jessie Jackson is concerned with the plight of the dark-skinned Domincans (David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez), Puerto Ricans (Carlos Delgado), Cubans (Orlando Hernandez) or Curacaoians (Andruw Jones). "Blacks" in the context of all these articles refers to African Americans. The number of blacks (African Americans) in baseball, is in decline.

[HIU 93]

In the Caribbean, the majority of people are descended from African Slaves. Just because they grew up in a country where Spanish was the primary language doesn't make them any less black.


I just thought it was worth mentioning again, since most people obviously can't see the pictures.

[mcveyrl]

He is from Curacao, a Dutch possesion in the Caribbean. African ancestory, descended from slaves.

Thanks for the clarification!

[HIU 93]

I don't think Jessie Jackson is concerned with the plight of the dark-skinned Domincans (David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez), Puerto Ricans (Carlos Delgado), Cubans (Orlando Hernandez) or Curacaoians (Andruw Jones). "Blacks" in the context of all these articles refers to African Americans. The number of blacks (African Americans) in baseball, is in decline.

I know what Rev. Jackson is talking about, but the articles and the complaints are misleading. There are Black players on the Atlanta Braves. They just don't happen to be Black Americans.

Once again- Nationality does not determine race.

[HIU 93]

I'm not understanding how Latinos are black?

You know damn well if you saw David Ortiz stealing a car and you didn't know he was Dominican, your eyewitness account would be that a large Black man stole the car. The fact that he speaks Spanish does not mean he isn't Black.

[Dukie95]

I know what Rev. Jackson is talking about, but the articles and the complaints are misleading. There are Black players on the Atlanta Braves. They just don't happen to be Black Americans.


The CNN article says:

The percentage of black major league players is now 8.4 percent, not counting those who are foreign born, according to the Institute for Diversity and Ethics and Sport.

It wasn't misleading to me, but as baseball fan, I understand that most of the players with dark skin are of latin origin and are not African American. When I read "black" in those articles, I knew they were talking about African Americans, perhaps it's misleading to the average non-baseball fan CNN.com visitor.

[DinoDex200]

I know what Rev. Jackson is talking about, but the articles and the complaints are misleading. There are Black players on the Atlanta Braves. They just don't happen to be Black Americans.

Once again- Nationality does not determine race.

Exactly! I mean...to put it in an odd way...a KKK member isn't going to give Ortiz or Jones a pass on being black because they aren't African-American. They're still going to be full of unnecessary hate for them...

It really pisses me off, primarily because MLB is probably one of the more diverse leagues in the US (with the NBA starting to make in-roads thanks to Europe and South America).

MLB has Koreans, Japanese, Central Americans, South Americans, Afro-Caribbeans, Afro-Americans, Canadians, Caucasian Americans, Australians etc.

For some reason, though, that doesn't seem to interest Jesse, which to me shows that their really is only one color in his Rainbow. If not, he would hold up MLB as a symbol of diversity and decry the lack of caucasians in the NBA.

I bet, BTW, if you really look at it - we are probably getting close to having more Latino/Carribbean players in MLB than caucasians...

[AppGuy04]

You know damn well if you saw David Ortiz stealing a car and you didn't know he was Dominican, your eyewitness account would be that a large Black man stole the car. The fact that he speaks Spanish does not mean he isn't Black.

oh yeah, I never said he didn't "look" black, b/c he does, just saying, he isn't black in my mind

When I think Black, I think BJ Upton, Torre Hunter, not Big Papi and Miguel Tejada, b/c they are from other countries

[AppGuy04]

Hey HIU, just wondering, is Dirk Nowitzki considered white to you?

[HIU 93]

Hey HIU, just wondering, is Dirk Nowitzki considered white to you?

All day long and twice on Sunday.

[Mr. C]

Maybe Jesse Jackson ought to be out doing something to promote baseball as a grass-roots level. How about Rainbow-Push building some baseball diamonds in the inter-cities like Atlanta and then finding some people to coach these kids? Bring in some former star players to help with the program. Jackson should be part of the solution, instead of pointing fingers at the problem. He's got the money and the prestige to pull something like that off, but I don't see him doing that. It's all a promotional stunt for him.

[AppGuy04]

All day long and twice on Sunday.

Albino on Sunday?xsmiley_wix

[HIU 93]

Maybe Jesse Jackson ought to be out doing something to promote baseball as a grass-roots level. How about Rainbow-Push building some baseball diamonds in the inter-cities like Atlanta and then finding some people to coach these kids? Bring in some former star players to help with the program. Jackson should be part of the solution, instead of pointing fingers at the problem. He's got the money and the prestige to pull something like that off, but I don't see him doing that. It's all a promotional stunt for him.

Knowing Rev. Jackson and Rainbow PUSH the way I do, I don't think it is a promotional stunt. It may have even been a communication from somone close to the Braves that had some sort of inside information about what the Braves plans are. I have a good idea of how this became an issue with PUSH....

[AppGuy04]

Knowing Rev. Jackson and Rainbow PUSH the way I do, I don't think it is a promotional stunt. It may have even been a communication from somone close to the Braves that had some sort of inside information about what the Braves plans are. I have a good idea of how this became an issue with PUSH....

do share

[HIU 93]

Albino on Sunday?xsmiley_wix

Actually, albinos tend to be born into Black families more often than white, but I get you're joke.

[HIU 93]

do share

No, thank you.

[AppGuy04]

Actually, albinos tend to be born into Black families more often than white, but I get you're joke.

never noticed that

[*****]

... Once again- Nationality does not determine race.Once again- Color alone does not determine race.
The racial classifications used by the Census Bureau adhere to the 30 October 1997, Federal Register Notice entitled "Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity" issued by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The race categories are:

-American Indian or Alaska Native. "A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment."
-Asian. "A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, the Philippine Islands, India, Malaysia, Japan, Cambodia, China, Korea, Thailand, and Vietnam."
-Black or African American. "A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as 'Haitian' or 'Negro' can be used in addition to 'Black' or 'African American.'"
-Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. "A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands."
-White. "A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
-Some other race.

[HIU 93]

Once again- Color does not determine race.

Yeah, it does.

[andy7171]

Hey HIU, just wondering, is Dirk Nowitzki considered white to you?
He was invisible in game 7 against the Warriors! :D

[HIU 93]

He was invisible in game 7 against the Warriors! :D

Wasn't he? Pissed me off. I thought this was Avery's year.

[MarkCCU]

Yeah, it does.

I agree with you.

[AppGuy04]

He was invisible in game 7 against the Warriors! :D

thats more of the answer I was expecting

[DinoDex200]

The funny thing to me about this is also that the Braves have regularly employed African-American coaches over the course of the Schuerholz/Cox tenure - Clarence Jones, Don Baylor, Terry Pendleton, etc. in fact, TP (also a former player, BTW) is one of the guys many consider to be Cox's potential successor.

[seantaylor]

So Dave Mathews would be considered African American? That label just needs to go away.

[I Bleed Purple]

Just as an FYI

Race from a biological standpoint does not exist. It really only exists culturally.

[Tod]

Just as an FYI

Race from a biological standpoint does not exist. It really only exists culturally.

I don't believe that's true. There are three races, Caucasian, African and Asian. CSI guys can tell the difference forensically (so it's biological).

Hispanic or Latino is an ethnic group. Most that we see as "Mexican", for example, are Caucasian. Others are African, as HIU pointed out.

xpeacex

[Gil Dobie]

I don't believe that's true. There are three races, Caucasian, African and Asian. CSI guys can tell the difference forensically (so it's biological).

Hispanic or Latino is an ethnic group. Most that we see as "Mexican", for example, are Caucasian. Others are African, as HIU pointed out.

xpeacex

Humans are humans. What race is a person from India or Micro or Melanesia or Native Australians? Human.

Link (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-071098.php)
"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton. "Evolutionary history is the key to understanding race, and new molecular biology techniques offer so much on recent evolutionary history. I wanted to bring some objectivity to the topic. This very objective analysis shows the outcome is not even a close call: There's nothing even like a really distinct subdivision of humanity."

[Tod]

Humans are humans. What race is a person from India or Micro or Melanesia or Native Australians? Human.

Link (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-071098.php)
"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton. "Evolutionary history is the key to understanding race, and new molecular biology techniques offer so much on recent evolutionary history. I wanted to bring some objectivity to the topic. This very objective analysis shows the outcome is not even a close call: There's nothing even like a really distinct subdivision of humanity."

I admire your attitude, but stand by my original response. There are differences that are able to be determined forensically. Blacks and Middle Easterners are far more prone to sickle cell anemia, etc. I'm sure if I did more research I could come up with more, but I see no need to get into a big argument over it.

[Gil Dobie]

I admire your attitude, but stand by my original response. There are differences that are able to be determined forensically. Blacks and Middle Easterners are far more prone to sickle cell anemia, etc. I'm sure if I did more research I could come up with more, but I see no need to get into a big argument over it.

Forensically you can determine sex of an individual too. It's not a big arguement, it's scientific fact. Biological Race in the human sense does not exist. Cultural and Ethnic Race does. Take Brazil for instance, they claim to be the nation of bronze. Mixing of Native, Euro, and African peoples. What race would a person of 1/3 of each be?

People of the same family could be different races? I would argue no.

They are all Human.

[Tod]

Forensically you can determine sex of an individual too. It's not a big arguement, it's scientific fact. Biological Race in the human sense does not exist. Cultural and Ethnic Race does. Take Brazil for instance, they claim to be the nation of bronze. Mixing of Native, Euro, and African peoples. What race would a person of 1/3 of each be?

People of the same family could be different races? I would argue no.

They are all Human.

Of course we're all human, that's not debatable.

I'll leave it at that.

[I Bleed Purple]

I admire your attitude, but stand by my original response. There are differences that are able to be determined forensically. Blacks and Middle Easterners are far more prone to sickle cell anemia, etc. I'm sure if I did more research I could come up with more, but I see no need to get into a big argument over it.

Jews are more vulnerable to Tay-Sachs disease. Does that mean Jew is a race?

Sickle Cell Anemia is on a complete different gene than the one that controls melanin content. It's a mutation selected to fight off malaria. Malaria is rampant in equatorial zones. Equatorial zones have higher ultraviolet radiation from the sun, and melanin blocks more radiation, so darker skin is selected for those zones. Two completely different concepts. That's why darker skinned individuals get sickle cell anemia. Not a racial issue at all.

Plus, the concept of Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid skeletal features has been severely challenged. Determining the "race" of an individual from skeletal features isn't all that accurate. From what I remember, a good deal of features are shared, but someone with a negroid skull isn't guaranteed to be black. This is also why the Bering Strait land bridge has also been challenged. Skulls of Native Americans are more Mongoloid than anything, but more evidence of Northern Europe as an origin have thrown that idea for a loop.

Besides, why are these three people TWO different races?

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/players/2005/3518.jpg http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/players/2005/3332.jpg http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/players/2005/3103.jpg

[MarkCCU]

So Dave Mathews would be considered African American? That label just needs to go away.

Yup, him and Charlize Theron. Those caucasions are African-American.

[HIU 93]

I admire your attitude, but stand by my original response. There are differences that are able to be determined forensically. Blacks and Middle Easterners are far more prone to sickle cell anemia, etc. I'm sure if I did more research I could come up with more, but I see no need to get into a big argument over it.

You are correct. Northern Europeans (Scandanavians) are more prone to auto-immune disorders such as MS and Lupus.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Boy, am I ever glad Jesse Jackson opened up this "debate" on race.

xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

If you can throw the ball 92 miles an hour, or can get a hit three times out of ten, you've got a home in baseball. At one time, baseball was not a meritocracy, but those days are ancient history. Today, the Yankees would sign a 7'8 purple person if they could throw the ball 92 miles an hour accurately to go with a killer slider. I mean, they just signed a 45 year-old pitcher who's probably more juiced than F.P. Santangelo and Karim Garcia AND who screwed them three years ago because he can pitch.

Jesse has got us talking about racial quotas, facial shapes and who is black, and who is not. I can't think of a more racist or less interesting subject to talk about. How come all conversations about race seem to have to involve folks like Jesse Jackson, self-appointed "voice of Black America?"

[AppGuy04]

How come all conversations about race seem to have to involve folks like Jesse Jackson, self-appointed "voice of Black America?"

the whole point of this thread

[bobcatfan06]

Rep for that Lehigh.

[lizrdgizrd]

Yeah, it does.
Then are albino black folks actually caucasian?

http://www.visionsupport.org/pics/albino.jpg
http://eschaton.tv/events/Momus%20in%20Paris/Freaky%20Japanese%20Albino.jpg

These guys must be white...xrolleyesx