Football Expenditures, 2006

[DFW HOYA]

As part of an upcoming series I'm working on regarding Georgetown and the Patriot League, I compiled an aggregate list of expenses from the EADA reports for the 40 I-AA/FCS schools in (or playing in) the Northeast.

Top 5, Spending
1. James Madison (CAA): $4,208,133
2. Fordham (Patriot): $3,898,156
3. Delaware (CAA): $3,890,595
4. Villanova (CAA): $3,791,955
5. Richmond (CAA): $3,658,117

Bottom 5, Spending
1. LaSalle (MAAC): $263,613
2. St. Peter's (MAAC): 281,306
3. Iona (MAAC): $355,172
4. Marist (MAAC): $456,575
5. Duquesne (MAAC): $465,936

From 1 to 40:
1. James Madison (CAA): $4,208,133
2. Fordham (Patriot): $3,898,156
3. Delaware (CAA): $3,890,595
4. Villanova (CAA): $3,791,955
5. Richmond (CAA): $3,658,117
6. Colgate (Patriot): $3,628,807
7. Hofstra (CAA): $3,602,055
8. Massachusetts (CAA): $3,318,205
9. Lehigh (Patriot): $3,261,340
10. Northeastern (CAA): $3,166,474
11. Lafayette (Patriot): $3,109,946
12. Rhode Island (CAA): $3,040,230
13. New Hampshire (CAA): $3,022,471
14. William & Mary (CAA): $3,006,528
15. Holy Cross (Patriot): $2,716,725
16. Maine (CAA): $2,621,578
17. Bucknell (Patriot): $2,488,592
18. Yale (Ivy): $2,155,095
19. Harvard (Ivy): $2,090,271
20. Columbia (Ivy): $1,971,707
21. Towson (CAA): $1,962,285
22. Princeton (Ivy): $1,801,579
23. Georgetown (Patriot): $1,666,297
24. Dartmouth (Ivy): $1,624,336
25. Pennsylvania (Ivy): $1,497,051
26. Cornell (Ivy): $1,441,074
27. Brown (Ivy): $1,256,085
28. Stony Brook (NEC): $1,225,656
29. Wagner (NEC): $1,198,243
30. Sacred Heart (NEC): $994,970
31. Central Connecticut (NEC): $972,558
32. Monmouth (NEC): $880,823
33. Albany (NEC): $877,574
34. St. Francis (NEC): $867,629
35. Robert Morris (NEC): $843,158
36. Duquesne (MAAC): $465,936
37. Marist (MAAC): $456,575
38. Iona (MAAC): $355,172
39. St. Peter's (MAAC): 281,306
40. LaSalle (MAAC): $263,613

[AppGuy04]

this doesn't include all FCS conferences does it?

[th0m]

It says at the top of the first post that it ranks the 40 FCS schools in the Northeast.

[AppGuy04]

It says at the top of the first post that it ranks the 40 FCS schools in the Northeast.

I swear it didn't say that when I first read it

[MplsBison]

I hadn't realized that the payment of tuition at Fordham required the selling of one's soul.

Yowza.

[Model Citizen]

Yowza is right. That's a non-scholarship program at #2. Where's that $3.9 million beiing spent? I came up with a few possibilities.

--flying to road games at Columbia (and all practices too?). Circle the city for a couple hours, then come back down.

--replacing the stadium seats every year.

--attracting fans ...'let's throw a truckload of cash on the field and see who shows up.'

--recruiting trips to the South and Midwest...by private jet. A look at their roster tells me this is doubtful.

--running the stadium lights with steam generators. The boiler is fueled with bales of dollar bills.

Any ideas here? Couldn't be scholarship money. xsmiley_wix

[danefan]

No wonder Wagner doesn't want to add any more scholarships.

[carney2]

This is a mine field, DFW. Good luck.

Looking forward to the end result.

[ngineer]

Yowza is right. That's a non-scholarship program at #2. Where's that $3.9 million beiing spent? I came up with a few possibilities.

--flying to road games at Columbia (and all practices too?). Circle the city for a couple hours, then come back down.

--replacing the stadium seats every year.

--attracting fans ...'let's throw a truckload of cash on the field and see who shows up.'

--recruiting trips to the South and Midwest...by private jet. A look at their roster tells me this is doubtful.

--running the stadium lights with steam generators. The boiler is fueled with bales of dollar bills.

Any ideas here? Couldn't be scholarship money. xsmiley_wix

The Rams do spend a lot of time in Florida and other southern states recruiting---lot's of suntan oil and spiffy hotels??;) :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Aren't putting the Ivies on here a bit misleading? Those athletes get "athletic ability-blind aid", and have massive endowments to allow them to offer lots of aid that is earmarked as "general scholarship" but is really used to also offer athletes need-based aid. Harvard could shell out over $3 Million -- easily -- if you count the endowment $$$. Yale at 18 and Harvard at 19 is really misleading.

[MplsBison]

Ok, now I'm a bit curious about Fordham and other PL schools.


They don't allow scholarships, yet they spend big time.


What is this money buying?

[GannonFan]

Ok, now I'm a bit curious about Fordham and other PL schools.


They don't allow scholarships, yet they spend big time.


What is this money buying?

Grant-in-aids vs. scholarships. To some extent, the difference is only semantics.

[dbackjon]

Of course, the NEC schools will be moving up the list, and Stony Brook, Independent this year, will be spending MUCH more on football in 2007 and beyond.

[DetroitFlyer]

If you look at the numbers available in the public domain, you quickly realize that there must be a very loose standard that schools report against.... The last time I looked, "non-scholarship" USD spent more on football than full scholarship Wofford. Hard to believe if both schools are reporting against the same standard.... The same holds true for the PL. Obviously, they are accounting for aid to football players in some form in their numbers, even though they do not offer "scholarships" per say. My school, Dayton, spends about as much as Wofford and we offer no scholarships.... This is another reason that I get real concerned when I hear talk of limiting playoff access by requiring teams to spend at least $X's. This might work if the reporting was uniform among all schools, but from what I can see, it is not even close. Many schools reports appear to be designed to paint whatever picture the administration wants to paint. Some schools "appear" to break even, some schools"appear" to lose money and some schools "appear" to make money on football.... My guess is that something is not consistent among all FCS schools with these numbers, and many involved do not want to stir the pot....

[Franks Tanks]

Ok, now I'm a bit curious about Fordham and other PL schools.


They don't allow scholarships, yet they spend big time.


What is this money buying?

Tuition room and board at Lafayette is now about 45k per year. We can give one of our "need based Aid packages" to a student athlete and only cover half of that tuition. I suspect that 22k or so can cover two or three full rides at NDSU, only 1/2 of one at Lafayette and the other Patriots.

[Ivytalk]

I'm surprised by how tightly bunched the Ivies are, and that Columbia is at #3 within the Ivies. Conspiracy theorists, anyone? (Of course, Ivy tuitions seem to be within $9.95 of each other every year.xrolleyesx )

[Model Citizen]

Grant-in-aids vs. scholarships. To some extent, the difference is only semantics.

Yes, but the NCAA doesn't usethe term "athletic scholarships" in its bylaws. So it's only fans and media who are confused.

The NCAA uses Grants, and it uses Equivalencies. This is athletic aid.

Fordham football gives athletic aid. See http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2006/236.pdf

Fordham football recently had a graduation rate of 84 percent for a number of student athletes exceeding 20 (footnote e). You'll see at the bottom of the report that only those receiving athletic-related aid are reported.

[andy7171]

You have to figure the cost of things and where the schools are also. Fordham and Columbia are right in the middle of NYC. Things don't cost the same everywhere. And NYC is the top-o-the-heap.

[carney2]

Ok, now I'm a bit curious about Fordham and other PL schools.


They don't allow scholarships, yet they spend big time.


What is this money buying?


I'm sitting out here like the rest of you waiting for someone to unravel these mysteries. LFN has moved the discussion along, however. In my opinion your first mistake is to accept these numbers as gospel. There simply are no reporting standards. One school includes only athletic scholarships, but not other forms of financial aid. Another school might report all financial aid for football players. Another (LFN refers to the Ivies) buries athletic financial aid in academic areas and therefore doesn't report it at all. How about coaches salaries? Coaches only or do you include "support" staff? And, how deep into the staff do you go? The schools that truly amaze me are the ones that report football expenses as being exactly equal (to the penny!) to football revenues. There are more of these than you might imagine.

In short, there's a lot of "cooking the books" going on here. Why? Because they can. There is no oversight and the "rules" of reporting are a little loose and even nonexistent. Without oversight from the NCAA or the Dept. of Education (and there is none that I am aware of), this can be really misleading information.

Each of these schools has its own agenda. Perhaps they do not want to report a football "loss." Maybe they want to impress the alumni that they are "keeping up with the Joneses." Perhaps they are laying the groundwork for yet another hat in hand fund raising plea to the alumni. I'm saying that many of these schools do not merely report what happens. They determine the story that they want to tell, and then maneuver the information accordingly. Who's to stop them?

If you want to believe that Fordham is spending more than any school in the CAA except JMU, or that the Ivies have spending levels only slightly greater than Stony Brook and Wagner, be my guest. After all, there it is in black and white. I have a bridge in lower Manhattan that you might be interested in purchasing.

DFW, I'm hoping that, in addition to whatever you are working on for the Hoyas and the PL, you can eventually shed some light into these dark corners.

[Model Citizen]

You'll see at the bottom of the report that only those receiving athletic-related aid are reported.

Compare the entry for Fordham or anyone else in the Patriot League to Yale or Duquesne. Yale and Duquesne don't give athletic aid in football, so their football graduation rate sections are blank.

[MplsBison]

I suspect that 22k or so can cover two or three full rides at NDSU

Depends where he comes from. Out of state, probably only one. Instate or reciprocity, probably two.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Compare the entry for Fordham or anyone else in the Patriot League to Yale or Duquesne. Yale and Duquesne don't give athletic aid in football, so their football graduation rate sections are blank.

Right. This does NOT mean Yale or Duquesne have athlete graduation rates of 100%, one of the great myths of college football today. I think that "non-scholarships" (and I mean that very much in quotes) should have to disclose their graduation rates along with everyone else. I don't mind schools being held to standards as long as all schools, scholarship or otherwise, are being held to the same standards.

Veering back on topic, this also applies to the EADA reports as well. Non-scholly schools feel all their aid is academic in nature, so they don't declare it as athletics spending. But by their own admission they accept some football players that are more than two standard deviations below their incoming class average. So they are accepting students that wouldn't be in the school without athletics, but when being asked to declare spending, or talking about graduation rates, these same schools cry "exception"? Total hypocrisy.

[andy7171]

Depends where he comes from. Out of state, probably only one. Instate or reciprocity, probably two.
I can't believe it costs 20K to go to NDSU as an out of state resident! Holy crappola! xeekx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I can't believe it costs 20K to go to NDSU as an out of state resident! Holy crappola! xeekx

I think it costs in excess of $27K to attend UNH as an out-of-stater!

[MplsBison]

Any public school has huge tuition for out of staters.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

JMU at the top is puzzling to me. Don't they have a significant number of players who are from Virginia? Wouldn't that relatively low cost of a scholarship keep their expenses down? If you look at the costs for in-state and out-of-state tuition at JMU, I would expect Richmond, William & Mary, Villanova, UNH, etc. to have significantly higher expenses than JMU. Just curious, where is JMU spending that results into that high figure?

Doesn't William and Mary have most of their scholarships endowed? Would that still qualify as an expense? I'm guessing that Yale and Harvard's expenses are lower because their scholarships are endowed. Lord knows it is more expensive to go there than to any CAA school.

Are Towson's expenses that much lower than the other CAA schools because they are from a year when you didn't have the full allotment of 63 scholarships? I'm assuming that Towson also benefits from having many in-state scholarship players.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Any public school has huge tuition for out of staters.

Once again you fail to acknowledge that there is a wide discrepancy from one school to another. From Andy's reply, I'm guessing that it costs less than 20K for an out-of-stater at Towson.

[andy7171]

Once again you fail to acknowledge that there is a wide discrepancy from one school to another. From Andy's reply, I'm guessing that it costs less than 20K for an out-of-stater at Towson.
I haven't really looked at tuition prices in the last few(10) years or so. xeekx

I looked it up Towson is @ $10K for in state students and $17K for outta staters.

Yeah, if this if from 2006 data, Towson isn't up to 63.

Another discrepancy in these numbers would be whether the school considers in-state to out-state tuition. There shouldn't be a difference in caluclating this. I mean what's the difference between a kid from PA or a kid from MD living on campus? Its not like a school would over pay ITSELF for a scholarship to an out of state athlete.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Another discrepancy in these numbers would be whether the school considers in-state to out-state tuition. There shouldn't be a difference in caluclating this. I mean what's the difference between a kid from PA or a kid from MD living on campus? Its not like a school would over pay ITSELF for a scholarship to an out of state athlete.

From an internal bookkeeping point of view that might be true and is another area within the "standards" issue when reporting. But at face value an out-of-stater at any school pays more than an in-state kid.

In fact over the past thirty plus years, UNH has consistently increased the number of out-of-staters so they can balance the budget. When I was in school, they had a policy of charging out-of-staters the true cost of the education knowing that they couldn't do the same with in-staters. As a result the percentage of out-of-staters at UNH has increased
from 20% to almost 50%.

[th0m]

JMU at the top is puzzling to me. Don't they have a significant number of players who are from Virginia? Wouldn't that relatively low cost of a scholarship keep their expenses down? If you look at the costs for in-state and out-of-state tuition at JMU, I would expect Richmond, William & Mary, Villanova, UNH, etc. to have significantly higher expenses than JMU. Just curious, where is JMU spending that results into that high figure?

Doesn't William and Mary have most of their scholarships endowed? Would that still qualify as an expense? I'm guessing that Yale and Harvard's expenses are lower because their scholarships are endowed. Lord knows it is more expensive to go there than to any CAA school.

Are Towson's expenses that much lower than the other CAA schools because they are from a year when you didn't have the full allotment of 63 scholarships? I'm assuming that Towson also benefits from having many in-state scholarship players.

I haven't seen anywhere what is included under the term 'expenditures'. Does this also mean coaches salaries? How about dedicated facilities-upkeep? Things like that. While JMU is definitely one of the cheaper schools on that list, we may be spending more on coaches.

[Andy]

I haven't seen anywhere what is included under the term 'expenditures'. Does this also mean coaches salaries? How about dedicated facilities-upkeep? Things like that. While JMU is definitely one of the cheaper schools on that list, we may be spending more on coaches.


Terms Definitions

Expenses--Expenses means expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities. This includes appearance guarantees and options, athletically related student aid, contract services, equipment, fundraising activities, operating expenses, promotional activities, recruiting expenses, salaries and benefits, supplies, travel, and any other expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities.

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Operating Expenses Operating expenses means all expenses an institution incurs attributable to home, away, and neutral-site intercollegiate athletic contests (commonly known as ``game-day expenses''), for (A) lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, and equipment for coaches, team members, support staff (including, but not limited to team managers and trainers), and others; and (B) officials. Operating expenses are a subset of expenses.

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Recruiting Expenses Recruiting expenses means all expenses an institution incurs attributable to recruiting activities. This includes, but is not limited to, expenses for lodging, meals, telephone use, and transportation (including vehicles used for recruiting purposes) for both recruits and personnel engaged in recruiting, any other expenses for official and unofficial visits, and all other expenses related to recruiting. ////

"Athletically Related Student Aid" is reported as both "expense" and "revenue".

[appfan2008]

does anyone have a ranking for all schools or just the northeast?

[th0m]

Thanks Andy!