Clemens Signs With Yankees

[JoltinJoe]

Announced just a second ago during the middle of the 7th at Yankee Stadium today.

Clemens was in Steinbrenner's box and was given a mike. He made the announcement himself.

[Cleets]

interesting... 20 million (or so) dollars I would guess

[CCU97]

And unless the other pitchers on the staff come around this will mean nothing in the end other than Roger played another half year and did well but his team went nowhere!

[Col Hogan]

Figure he's going to take at least one month to get ready for a major league start...Unless the Yankees go on a tear between now and then, they'll still be in a serious hole...

It's going to be interesting...xchinscratchx

[slycat]

says hes getting 28 million or 4.5 million a month for june, july, aug, and sept. this is insane and even more of reason that a salary cap needs to be put in place in baseball.

the yankees are so desperate to win they will pay anything. i hope they keep losing.

[AppGuy04]

and you wonder why people hate the Yankees, $4.5 million a month is whyxrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[Cleets]

and you wonder why people hate the Yankees, $4.5 million a month is why

that's about a million a start... (actually 1.25 million a start)
xlolx
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[JoltinJoe]

and you wonder why people hate the Yankees, $4.5 million a month is whyxrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

People don't hate the Yankees. You hate the Yankees. Say what you mean. The Yankees have more fans than any team in America. Should I say that "people" love the Yankees?

[dbackjon]

More people HATE the Yankees than love them.

[Reed Rothchild]

and you wonder why people hate the Yankees, $4.5 million a month is whyxrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx


Kind of like when the Redsox paid over $100 mill to get Dice-K?

[Reed Rothchild]

No one complained when Houston gave him crazy money to pitch a few games the last couple years

[AppGuy04]

Kind of like when the Redsox paid over $100 mill to get Dice-K?

Dice-K makes 6.3 Million a year, you can't even compare the twoxrolleyesx

6.3 in a year

4.5 in a month

hmmmmmmmmmmm

[JoltinJoe]

More people HATE the Yankees than love them.

I doubt that's true either.

[AppGuy04]

People don't hate the Yankees. You hate the Yankees. Say what you mean. The Yankees have more fans than any team in America. Should I say that "people" love the Yankees?

you can say whatever you want, but I would be more correct than you would considering there are 29 other MLB teams and fans of those teams that certainly outnumber the Yanks fans

[bulldog10jw]

More people HATE the Yankees than love them.

No doubt that's true

[AppGuy04]

No doubt that's true

oblivious fans like joe don't seem to think so

get out more joe

[UNHWildCats]

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/3563/clemeneq0.gif

[AppGuy04]

so clemens at $28 million is worth as much as almost the whole Sox starting rotation?

Dice-K- 6.3 mil
Beckett- 6.6 mil
Wakefield- 4 mil
Schilling- 13 mil

Total- $29.9 million

[JoltinJoe]

oblivious fans like joe don't seem to think so

get out more joe

I get out plenty. I travel all over the United States. You find Yankees fans everywhere. It's a national franchise. Souvenir sales and TV ratings bear this out.

Perhaps you need to get out more. And turn over you Sox blinders.

[AppGuy04]

I get out plenty. I travel all over the United States. You find Yankees fans everywhere. It's a national franchise. Souvenir sales and TV ratings bear this out.

Perhaps you need to get out more. And turn over you Sox blinders.

yeah, like bandwagon UNC fans, you find them in every Walmart

to think that Yankee fans outnumber the 29 other MLB teams is just plain ignorance

[JoltinJoe]

to think that Yankee fans outnumber the 29 other MLB teams is just plain ignorance


And where did I say that? xnonox

[AppGuy04]

If you are not a Yankee fan, chances are you hate them, thus more people hate the Yanks than like them, that you refuted above

[JoltinJoe]

If you are not a Yankee fan, chances are you hate them, thus more people hate the Yanks than like them, that you refuted above

See, this is where you are wrong. Only a Sox fan thinks this.

In fact, there was a poll in SI asking fans a few years back to name the team they liked the most and the team they disliked the most.

Most popular team -- Yankees.

Most unpopular team -- the Boston Red Sox.

[Cleets]

love 'em or hate 'em is kind of the baseball fans relationship with the Yankee's...

They are disliked because they use their most powerfull resource... Money... and use that resource to lure (attract) players who otherwise might not want to play in New York...

(Money is both a blessing and a curse in this example...)


-

[dbackjon]

Except for transplanted New Yawkers, everyone in arizona hates the Yankees.

[AppGuy04]

See, this is where you are wrong. Only a Sox fan thinks this.

In fact, there was a poll in SI asking fans a few years back to name the team they liked the most and the team they disliked the most.

Most popular team -- Yankees.

Most unpopular team -- the Boston Red Sox.

That seems hard to believe

maybe they just hate ole Georgexrolleyesx

[Cleets]

See, this is where you are wrong. Only a Sox fan thinks this.

In fact, there was a poll in SI asking fans a few years back to name the team they liked the most and the team they disliked the most.

Most popular team -- Yankees.

Most unpopular team -- the Boston Red Sox.


in all the places i've lived and gone to baseball games I find that the person is either one of two things (when talking about the Yankee's) either a lover or a hater (for lack of a better word) very little in-between feelings... but they do have a ton of fans...

(Just my observation)

[JoltinJoe]

That seems hard to believe

It's not hard to believe.

Let's see. The Yanks played the A's in a number of exciting playoff series since 2000. Do A's fans hate the Yankees? No.

But the Sox played one series against them in 2003 and some real bad blood emerged. I was in Oakland last year I can assure you that A's fans hate the Red Sox with a rare passion.

In all the years the A's played the Yankees, not one of their pitchers was ever mugged on the streets of New York by drunk Yankee fans, nor did any Yankee player celebrate their wins by making an obscene gesture at the A's players.

None of this is forgotten in Oakland.

[JoltinJoe]

Except for transplanted New Yawkers, everyone in arizona hates the Yankees.

There are more real Yankee fans in AZ than there are real Diamondback fans. Admit it.

No one cares about the Dbacks. And no one hates them because they're not even worth hating.xnodx

[dbackjon]

There are more real Yankee fans in AZ than there are real Diamondback fans. Admit it.

No one cares about the Dbacks. And no one hates them because they're not even worth hating.xnodx

Whatever.

You're still pissed that we took you to the woodshed in 2001, and broke the spell of Rivera - he hasn't been the same since.



There are plenty of Dback fans. And they are much more tolerable to be around than yankee fans. Can't think of a single Yankee fan I have personally met that wasn't loud, obnoxious, complained about everything in Arizona, keeps going on and on about how great New York is, but gives you that dumb, blank stare when you ask them "If you love NY so much, and hate Arizona, why don't you move the heck back there".

[HiHiYikas]

I remember when Jerry Seinfeld was offered $5 million an episode to keep doing the show for a 10th season. Millions of Americans turned on him, started calling his show garbage, couldn't believe anybody could be making millions per show just to read some lines in front of a couple of cameras.

People started printing up shirts "I have two favorite shows: The Simpsons, and whatever is on opposite Seinfeld." They started this whole ridiculous "Seinfeld Hater Nation" movement. He had no other choice but to end the series.

Actually, people didn't do that, because people just aren't that irrational, unless, of course, those people are baseball fans.

[JoltinJoe]

You're still pissed that we took you to the woodshed in 2001, and broke the spell of Rivera - he hasn't been the same since".

We've gone through this before. You got a few cheap broken-bat hits and you deluded yourselves into thinking you "owned" Rivera.

I'd love to say we'll even the score someday but it's more likely that the Dbacks will get disbanded before they ever get back to the WS.xlolx

[Ivytalk]

Wheel Roger in from the pen, let him pitch his 5 innings, and wheel him to the clubhouse. He's had a great career, but he's watering it down.xtwocentsx

[Mountaineer]

"If you love NY so much, and hate Arizona, why don't you move the heck back there".

xthumbsupx xlolx

Same thing happening all across the South. I swear there must be a million new NC residents that have come from the NE area and it's damn near impossible not to hear about how great everything is back home. xrolleyesx Which always makes me wonder what they're doing down here. xoopsx

[dbackjon]

We've gone through this before. You got a few cheap broken-bat hits and you deluded yourselves into thinking you "owned" Rivera.

I'd love to say we'll even the score someday but it's more likely that the Dbacks will get disbanded before they ever get back to the WS.xlolx

tony Womack's solid single into the outfield was a broken bat hit?

Beating the Yankees 15-2 by cheap hits? xconfusedx

And FYI - the Dbacks have the best young talent in ALL of baseball.

I know it was painful, but you need to face up to reality - yes, we owned your butts. We were two pitches away from a SWEEP.

[Mountaineer]

this is insane and even more of reason that a salary cap needs to be put in place in baseball.


You've just summed up the main reason I can't stand watching baseball. I think it's a great sport, but the lack of a salary cap and knowing 80% of the MLB franchises don't even have a shot on opening day turns me off. xtwocentsx

[UNHWildCats]

Now now Jon, we all gotta bow down and kiss the asses of anyone whos a YAnkees fan, cause no one and I mean NO ONE was, is or ever will be in the same class as the Yankees.





































:pumpuke:

[JoltinJoe]

And FYI - the Dbacks have the best young talent in ALL of baseball.


Yes, that's true.

The Dbacks have taken that honor from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, who had the best young talent in all of baseball for the past five or six seasons.

[HiHiYikas]

Anybody who still thinks a salary cap is needed after watching the Tigers go from several seasons as a .300 team to the AL pennant winner after receiving millions and millions in revenue sharing probably ought to join the rest of us in 2007.

The present CBA seems to be working very well. It's still the case that no $100 million team has ever won the World Series - except of course for Evil Empire 2.0 back in 2004.

If the MLB ever decides to institute a salary cap (they've made terrible decisions before, and likely will again) it had better come with a very high salary floor, to the point that there's not more than about $35 million in deviation between the top teams and the bottom teams. Otherwise, franchises like the Marlins will continue to take advantage of the system.

[Cleets]

Just read "Moneyball"

Stupid teams make stupid decisions (over and over) money isn't everything it's cracked up to be when it comes to Baseball...

and this Roger signing is proof of that... ask yourselves what would the Oakland A's pay Roger for 1/2 a season..?

Overpaying for players instead of evaluating talent properly is a gleefull issue when you speak to some teams... happy to let the Yankee's overpay every time (just ask Billy Bean) he loves the Yankee's


-

[bulldog10jw]

tony Womack's solid single into the outfield was a broken bat hit?

Beating the Yankees 15-2 by cheap hits? xconfusedx

And FYI - the Dbacks have the best young talent in ALL of baseball.

I know it was painful, but you need to face up to reality - yes, we owned your butts. We were two pitches away from a SWEEP.

Wasn't Womack's hit a double? I know he ended up on 2nd base and the hit was down the line. Maybe they only gave him a single and he went to 2nd on the throw home. Grace's hit was a solid single, also.

[JoltinJoe]

Just read "Moneyball"

Stupid teams make stupid decisions (over and over) money isn't everything it's cracked up to be when it comes to Baseball...

and this Roger signing is proof of that... ask yourselves what would the Oakland A's pay Roger for 1/2 a season..?

Overpaying for players instead of evaluating talent properly is a gleefull issue when you speak to some teams... happy to let the Yankee's overpay every time (just ask Billy Bean) he loves the Yankee's


-

Questions to ponder:

What has Billy Beane won?

And has a Billy Beane team ever beaten the Yankees in a playoff series?

[ngineer]

I'm sorry, but something is wrong with this picture....:pumpuke:

[Reed Rothchild]

Houston payed ridiculous money for Clemens last year and no one complained. He only gets crap now because its to the Yanks. Boston and Houston were willing to fork over the same cash for him but now since he wanted to go to the Yanks, its wrong. I don't get it. Its a double standard. If he were to go to Boston they would get crowned immediately as the favorites.

Not to mention that the Yanks did dump salary to get him when they got rid of Johnson and Sheffield.

[UNHWildCats]

This is a substantial amount of money more. 28 million as opposed to 22 million plus NY will have to pay almost 7 million in luxury tax because of that amount being added to the payroll.

Prorated its about 18.5 million + 7 million in lux tax

compared to the prorated last season Houston paid which was what about 13 million?

25.5 million vs 13 million hmm ya its almost the same.

[slycat]

Houston payed ridiculous money for Clemens last year and no one complained. He only gets crap now because its to the Yanks. Boston and Houston were willing to fork over the same cash for him but now since he wanted to go to the Yanks, its wrong. I don't get it. Its a double standard. If he were to go to Boston they would get crowned immediately as the favorites.

Not to mention that the Yanks did dump salary to get him when they got rid of Johnson and Sheffield.

people in texas complained and thought it was stupid.

[Cleets]

Questions to ponder:

What has Billy Beane won?

And has a Billy Beane team ever beaten the Yankees in a playoff series?

Billy Bean's job is to field a competitive team for less than 50 million a year... amazingly he does this year-in-year-out
nobody with honest expectations would even dream to think the A's at that modest (two & 1/2 player salary for the Yanks) should be winning feilding a 25 man roster, for that matter going to a world series... (Please, lets be honest..)

The A's understand perfectly how to make, build and continue to win at less than 25% of what the Yankees spend...
(with no expectations beyond "being competitive") because that's not realistic...

If Brian Cashman was 1/2 as smart as Billy Bean the Yankee's would never lose (ever) but the Yankee's have a giant flaw...
Money breeds a kind of lazy stupidity... (See Yankees head office)

Read the book... it's nice, you'll really enjoy it..

-

[Fresno St. Alum]

sold out again

[BobbyMo]

so clemens at $28 million is worth as much as almost the whole Sox starting rotation?

Dice-K- 6.3 mil
Beckett- 6.6 mil
Wakefield- 4 mil
Schilling- 13 mil

Total- $29.9 million


Sick but true, that is damn near literally 2/3’s of the Pirates payroll xnodx xbawlingx xnodx xbawlingx xnodx xbawlingx

[Col Hogan]

I for one, welcome Roger back to the Yankees.

He'll build up the hope of Yankee players and fans...so when they don't succeed AGAIN, the fall will be more painful.

Roger will pitch 5 - 6 games a month...he'll win maybe 1/3 with a few losses and no-decisions tossed in (went 7 -6 for the Astros last year for the same basic period)...so let's give him 8 wins (bet I'm on the high side)

That's about $3 million a win...not bad work if you can get it...but will it really pull the Yankess out of their hole?

[AppGuy04]

Boston offered $18 million, thats not even close to what the Yanks offered

[spelunker64]

More people HATE the Yankees than love them.

True, but they probably still have more fans than anyone else. More people involved on both sides. xrolleyesx

[GannonFan]

He's a big name, and it creates a big sensation, and it's better than throwing Iguwa out there every 5th day, but it's not enough to correct the fundamental flaw that is the Yankees - they don't have the pitching to win the World Series. Clemens got lit up in the playoffs the past two years in the easier-to-pitch in National League, so he's far from a lights-out postseason pitcher anymore. In reality, the Yanks aren't much different than last year - Wang and a bunch of nothing else. No one else really scares you postseason-wise as a light out, surefire winner. And the problem is, other teams have that. I never thought the Yanks would miss the playoffs - with that lineup they should make it every year. But as has been the case for 6 years running, they don't have the pitching to feel confident about any series win in the postseason, let alone winning 3 different series to win the title.

[AppGuy04]

One guy can't fix a whole pitching staff, if for no other reason than the man is just one man, the price is too high

[JoltinJoe]

Gannonfan:

What team is running out a better top four than Wang, Clemens, Pettitte & Mussina?

[dbackjon]

Wasn't Womack's hit a double? I know he ended up on 2nd base and the hit was down the line. Maybe they only gave him a single and he went to 2nd on the throw home. Grace's hit was a solid single, also.

Yes, it was. Both Grace's single, and Womack's double were solid hits. Not cheap by any means, other than in deluded YankeeFan's mind.


With the Yankees ahead 2-1 in the bottom of the eighth, manager Joe Torre turned the game over to his ace closer Mariano Rivera for a two-inning save. Rivera was one of the surest things in the late innings, and he had pitched brilliantly throughout the postseason up to that point. Rivera struck out the side in the eighth and lowered his ERA in the postseason to a major league-best of 0.70. Although he was sharp in the eighth, this game would end in the third ninth-inning comeback of the Series, but this time it would be the Diamondbacks. Mark Grace led off the inning with a single to center. The real turning point was Rivera's errant throw to second base on a bunt attempt by Damian Miller, putting runners on first and second. Rivera appeared to regain control when he fielded Jay Bell's bunt and threw out pinch-runner David Dellucci at third base. However, the next batter, Tony Womack, drove a double down the right-field line that evened the score. After Rivera hit Craig Counsell with a 1-1 pitch, Luis Gonzalez would become the hero, knocking a soft single to center on an 0-1 pitch that plated Jay Bell with the winning run. This ended New York's bid for a fourth consecutive title and brought Arizona its first championship in just its fourth year of existence.

[GannonFan]

Gannonfan:

What team is running out a better top four than Wang, Clemens, Pettitte & Mussina?

I think Boston's and Detroit's top 4 are better, and I think the White Sox, Twins (that's a stretch), A's, and Angels have comparable top 4's, just looking at the American League. No one's denying that the names in the Yanks top 4 are some big names, but 3 of those 4 (Clemens, Pettitte, and Mussina) are certainly in the twilight of their careers and haven't been as effective lately, especially in the postseason, as they were when they made themselves the names they are today. And then you throw in the fact that the Yankees bullpen is a shambles and you have yourself set up for another early postseason exit.

[Col Hogan]

Gannonfan:

What team is running out a better top four than Wang, Clemens, Pettitte & Mussina?

Let's, see as of today:

Red Sox Yankees
Shilling 4-1 Mussina 1-1
Tavares 1-3 Pettite 1-1
Wakefield 3-3 Wang 1-2
Beckett 6-0 Igawa 2-1
Matsuzaka 3-2 Clemens ?????

Papellbon S-10, 1.46 ERA Rivera S-3, 8.38 ERA

I'll take the Red Sox, thank you very much.

[JoltinJoe]

I'll take the Red Sox, thank you very much.

Nice choice. You'll finish third. Again.

[Reed Rothchild]

He's a big name, and it creates a big sensation, and it's better than throwing Iguwa out there every 5th day, but it's not enough to correct the fundamental flaw that is the Yankees - they don't have the pitching to win the World Series. Clemens got lit up in the playoffs the past two years in the easier-to-pitch in National League, so he's far from a lights-out postseason pitcher anymore. In reality, the Yanks aren't much different than last year - Wang and a bunch of nothing else. No one else really scares you postseason-wise as a light out, surefire winner. And the problem is, other teams have that. I never thought the Yanks would miss the playoffs - with that lineup they should make it every year. But as has been the case for 6 years running, they don't have the pitching to feel confident about any series win in the postseason, let alone winning 3 different series to win the title.

You couldn't have said it any better. Cashman thought he could have a dominant rotation when he signed Pavano and got Johnson. He was wrong. Their lineup will win them the division but winning any series all depends on how hot you get at the right time and if your starting pitching can stay healthy.


This is a substantial amount of money more. 28 million as opposed to 22 million plus NY will have to pay almost 7 million in luxury tax because of that amount being added to the payroll.

Prorated its about 18.5 million + 7 million in lux tax

compared to the prorated last season Houston paid which was what about 13 million?

25.5 million vs 13 million hmm ya its almost the same

Yes, but the Redsox had an offer out that was probably almost as ridiculous. The problem here is not the Yankees, its Clemens. But, since it was the Yanks who got him they get all the flack.


Let's, see as of today:

Red Sox Yankees
Shilling 4-1 Mussina 1-1
Tavares 1-3 Pettite 1-1
Wakefield 3-3 Wang 1-2
Beckett 6-0 Igawa 2-1
Matsuzaka 3-2 Clemens ?????

Papellbon S-10, 1.46 ERA Rivera S-3, 8.38 ERA

I'll take the Red Sox, thank you very much.

Lets compare the numbers in a few months when those guys are healthy. What happens when the injury bug starts to bite Boston???

Don't forget that Boston sent out a similar rotation last year and still finished 3rd!!!!

[Col Hogan]

Nice choice. You'll finish third. Again.

Me thinks that's wishful thinking on the part of the Bumbers faithful :D xrolleyesx

[JoltinJoe]

Me thinks that's wishful thinking on the part of the Bumbers faithful :D xrolleyesx

No, the Sox will finish third again this year.

I called them for third last year and I was right. And I'm calling them for third again.

The Sox have too many guys who get off to good starts just don't perform over 162 games. Both Schilling and Beckett just can't get it done over 162 games (Schilling more due to age). Papelbon too. He closed out his first 20 chances last year, then closed out only 15 of his next 21 tries.

A few weeks back I said Dice-K's ERA would be over 4.50. I'm wondering now if it's going to be over 5.00.

Yankees win this division by at least five games over Toronto.

The Sox line-up, meanwhile: Manny, Papi, and memories. Plus your defense is no better than average.

[CopperCat]

Desperate move by the Yanks. $4.5 mil a month for an old guy?!? Listen to Dan Patrick on ESPN, he'll say the same thing, and I agree. A lot of money, maybe some decent pitching, but it doesn't redeem the Yanks' crappy rotation.

[GannonFan]

Last year Clemens couldn't even average 6 IP per start, and that was in the National League going up against a weak 8 hitter and the pitcher every time around the lineup. Now he's back in the AL with the DH and you typically see ERA's jump - hey, this guy was a great pitcher, a Hall of Fame pitcher, but the form that got him to that point is in his past. Heck, his ERA back in his first Yankee tour was around 4.00, and that was 4 years ago. But you factor in his poor postseason performances, his age, his inability to last in games anymore along with the Yank's poor bullpen, and it just looks like a desperate move, and one that won't spell the difference.

[Peems]

well the last three games the yanks have given up a combined 4 runs. Today losing 3-2 to the mariners. We are still far from set, but we are making some ripples. Clemens will help, to say otherwise is to disgrace a man who still is one of the top 3 pitchers in the game. The yanks have their fans(me included) and have their haters, just like every other team in the majors. Plus everybody hates winners and when you have won more championships than anyone else, you tend to have haters. Example, when the lakers were on their tear with Kobe and Shaq, everyone of my friends hated them, except my good friend who was a laker. When winners emerge so do haters.

[Mr. C]

Joltin Joe, my friend, I think you've lost your mind during this thread. I've actually covered MLB in the past and have been around my fair share of ballparks and have lived in different areas of the country, so I think my opinion counts for something. Most fans don't give a rip about the Boston Red Sox, one way or the other (sorry, Travis and my other Red Sox friends). But when you talk about the Yankees, few fans are neutral. Most people love them, or hate them. There isn't much middle ground. And we're not talking about the Yomuri Giants and the Japanese League here. In Japan, about 80% of fans root for the Giants. It's not like that in America, I don't care what your polls say. You will find Yankee fans in large supply throughout the country, just like you will find Cub fans, Dodger fans, Mets fans, Red Sox fans and Brave fans. Teams that have big population bases and those that are on TV a lot will naturally have more fans. You will also find a lot of people who don't like those teams. Even in New York, there are tons of Mets fans. You won't find many of them rooting for the Yankees. A lot of people hate the Yankees for many reasons. They have been the most dominant team in MLB through history. People get sick of teams winning every year. And then they are run by one of the most pompous jerks in all of sports, George Steinbrenner. Most people HATE Steinbrenner. People hate it when teams are sore losers, which the Yankees are. And people hate seeing teams trying to buy championships. All of that adds up to the most hated team in baseball.

P.S. Your shots at the Diamondbacks are foolish. If it were not for some two-bit reliever named Kim, the Snakes would have CRUSHED the Yankees in the 2001 World Series. And Arizona is thought by many experts to have one of the top minor league organizations in baseball. Teams like Arizona and Los Angeles are flooded with talented young players right now. We're not talking about a team like Tampa Bay that has never won anything. Teams like Arizona and Los Angeles are doing things the right way and will be successful because of it. The New York Yankees went through years of screwups with free agents in the 1980s and through much of the 1990s. It appears they are headed that way again. Signing Roger Clemens was stupid (for everyone, but Roger), because the Yankees have too many other flaws to win this year. It would have made more sense to have spent that $28 million on something the Yankees truly need, player development in the minor leagues.

[Mr. C]

well the last three games the yanks have given up a combined 4 runs. Today losing 3-2 to the mariners. We are still far from set, but we are making some ripples. Clemens will help, to say otherwise is to disgrace a man who still is one of the top 3 pitchers in the game. The yanks have their fans(me included) and have their haters, just like every other team in the majors. Plus everybody hates winners and when you have won more championships than anyone else, you tend to have haters. Example, when the lakers were on their tear with Kobe and Shaq, everyone of my friends hated them, except my good friend who was a laker. When winners emerge so do haters.
Are you saying Roger Clemens is one of the top three pitchers in baseball?
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He is nearly as old as I am. He can't pitch more than about six innings at a time. He might not even be one of the top three pitchers on the Yankees at this point. I can think of dozens of guys I would rather have at this point. You have NO idea what Clemens will be able to give you at his age. He has as much chance of having a Randy Johnson-type year as he does of pitching like he did for the Astros a couple of years ago.

[GannonFan]

Are you saying Roger Clemens is one of the top three pitchers in baseball?
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He is nearly as old as I am. He can't pitch more than about six innings at a time. He might not even be one of the top three pitchers on the Yankees at this point. I can think of dozens of guys I would rather have at this point. You have NO idea what Clemens will be able to give you at his age. He has as much chance of having a Randy Johnson-type year as he does of pitching like he did for the Astros a couple of years ago.

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Agree completely - heck, I almost fell out of my chair when I read that line about being one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball!!!!!!! Aye caramba!!!! He was 5 years ago, but you can't go back in time and Clemens is what he is anymore - about a 4.00 ERA guy who might get to the 6th inning. But like I said, he is better than the $40M man, Igawa. Although, truth be told, after giving up 400 runs to the hapless Mariners on Friday, I might be better than Igawa at this point. :p

[AppGuy04]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2863411

The Rockets' $28M deal leaves a lot to the imagination. What would you do with that kind of cash? Well, Clemens could field an All-Star team all his own. New York's newest addition could afford the lineup below and still have change to spare.
Starting Lineup For Under $28M
Position Player Salary
Pitcher Brandon Webb $4,500,000
Catcher Joe Mauer $3,750,000
1B Ryan Howard $900,000
2B Robinson Cano $490,800
3B Miguel Cabrera $7,400,000
SS J.J. Hardy $400,000
OF Josh Hamilton $380,000
OF Alex Rios $2,535,000
OF Matt Holliday $4,400,000
DH Sammy Sosa $500,000
**Lineup worth $25,255,800

[Col Hogan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2863411

The Rockets' $28M deal leaves a lot to the imagination. What would you do with that kind of cash? Well, Clemens could field an All-Star team all his own. New York's newest addition could afford the lineup below and still have change to spare.
Starting Lineup For Under $28M
Position Player Salary
Pitcher Brandon Webb $4,500,000
Catcher Joe Mauer $3,750,000
1B Ryan Howard $900,000
2B Robinson Cano $490,800
3B Miguel Cabrera $7,400,000
SS J.J. Hardy $400,000
OF Josh Hamilton $380,000
OF Alex Rios $2,535,000
OF Matt Holliday $4,400,000
DH Sammy Sosa $500,000
**Lineup worth $25,255,800

Good line-up...could be in second place in the AL East...over .500 at least...:p

[JoltinJoe]

Joltin Joe, my friend, I think you've lost your mind during this thread. I've actually covered MLB in the past and have been around my fair share of ballparks and have lived in different areas of the country, so I think my opinion counts for something. Most fans don't give a rip about the Boston Red Sox, one way or the other (sorry, Travis and my other Red Sox friends). But when you talk about the Yankees, few fans are neutral. Most people love them, or hate them. There isn't much middle ground. And we're not talking about the Yomuri Giants and the Japanese League here. In Japan, about 80% of fans root for the Giants. It's not like that in America, I don't care what your polls say. You will find Yankee fans in large supply throughout the country, just like you will find Cub fans, Dodger fans, Mets fans, Red Sox fans and Brave fans. Teams that have big population bases and those that are on TV a lot will naturally have more fans. You will also find a lot of people who don't like those teams. Even in New York, there are tons of Mets fans. You won't find many of them rooting for the Yankees. A lot of people hate the Yankees for many reasons. They have been the most dominant team in MLB through history. People get sick of teams winning every year. And then they are run by one of the most pompous jerks in all of sports, George Steinbrenner. Most people HATE Steinbrenner. People hate it when teams are sore losers, which the Yankees are. And people hate seeing teams trying to buy championships. All of that adds up to the most hated team in baseball.

P.S. Your shots at the Diamondbacks are foolish. If it were not for some two-bit reliever named Kim, the Snakes would have CRUSHED the Yankees in the 2001 World Series. And Arizona is thought by many experts to have one of the top minor league organizations in baseball. Teams like Arizona and Los Angeles are flooded with talented young players right now. We're not talking about a team like Tampa Bay that has never won anything. Teams like Arizona and Los Angeles are doing things the right way and will be successful because of it. The New York Yankees went through years of screwups with free agents in the 1980s and through much of the 1990s. It appears they are headed that way again. Signing Roger Clemens was stupid (for everyone, but Roger), because the Yankees have too many other flaws to win this year. It would have made more sense to have spent that $28 million on something the Yankees truly need, player development in the minor leagues.

Relax, Mr. C. I'm just busting Travis and Jon.

Jon and I go back about the 2001 WS and the Yanks/Dbacks every now and then just for laughs. Please don't anything I say too seriously. Everything is said tongue-in-cheek.

But the SI poll did show that the Yankees were baseball's most popular team by far (about 20% of MLB's fanbase) and that the Red Sox were baseball's least liked team (owing, I'd guess, to the fact that every Yankee fan would identify the Sox as their least favorite team). So I was just having fun with some Sox fans too.

As for your statement that the Yankees are too flawed to win this year, time will tell. But they will win the AL East. And their top four starters are now as good as any in the AL.

[AppGuy04]

But they will win the AL East.

I'm just wondering how you can make a statement like this having seen what everyone else has seen this year

[JoltinJoe]

I'm just wondering how you can make a statement like this having seen what everyone else has seen this year

Yanks have been slow starters the last few years and have had a ridiculous amount of injuries. But they once again have the best talent in the AL East. Meanwhile, consider:

MLB Standings as of May 8, 2005 (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp?ymd=20050508)

[Col Hogan]

Joe, those are two year old standing...which means, the bedrock of the Yankees team is two years older.

Rivera is getting hit regularly
Damon is hurting, has been, and will be for a while
Jeter isn't setting anything on fire
Pavano......

Their problems aren't the same as two years ago...or even last year...

I really want a strong Yankees team...it's good for the rivalry...but Georgie-boys myopic focus on "this" year is rotting out the foundation...they continue to bring in high priced, old stars...neglecting their farm system.

Can't you admit this is troubling?

[AppGuy04]

I really want a strong Yankees team...it's good for the rivalry...but Georgie-boys myopic focus on "this" year is rotting out the foundation...they continue to bring in high priced, old stars...neglecting their farm system.

Which only forces them to "buy" players every year, digging a deeper and deeper hole IMO

[Mountaineer]

My sister has been a New Yorker less than a week and she's going to her first Yankees game this evening. xbawlingx

What a path of darkness she is on.... xsmhx

[AppGuy04]

My sister has been a New Yorker less than a week and she's going to her first Yankees game this evening. xbawlingx

What a path of darkness she is on.... xsmhx
If she didn't pay for it, there is still hope

[Mountaineer]

If she didn't pay for it, there is still hope

Yup, some of her friends bought her a ticket. Says she's going to be a Mets fan, but we'll see.. xrolleyesx xlolx