D2 Over FCS Scalp Watch 2019

[Preferred Walk-On]

Figured since there was an "FCS Over FBS Scalp Watch 2019", we should probably keep track of FCS teams that get beat by the next lower division. I was a bit surprised to see how many there were in week 2.

Week 1:
None

Week 2:
Kentucky State (@ Robert Morris) - 13-7
East Stroudsburg (@ Wagner) - 24-14 (FYI: Wagner lost to FBS Connecticut by 3...insert UConn football comment here)
Virginia Union (@ Hampton) - 36-17
Midwestern State (@ Northwestern State) - 33-7
Tarleton State (@ Stephen F. Austin) - 37-26
Truman State (@ Drake) - 10-7

Too close for comfort (within two scores):
Morehouse College (@ Alabama A&M) - 30-35
Indiana Wesleyan (@ Butler) - 27-30 (OT)
Central Washington (@ Idaho) - 31-41

I was wondering, on average, how many of these there are each year. Just seemed like a lot in one week (or even for the season). It appears that Drake and Butler are not going to help the Fighting Hawks' or the Bison's SOS. xlolx

[bonarae]

I can usually count such lower division / cross-association scalps by just two hands, but I'm afraid it'll go more than that this season. xsmhx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Glad someone took the time to list these! I've always wondered how well the D2 schools fare when they play up but never really took the time to research it...lol

[lionsrking2]

Figured since there was an "FCS Over FBS Scalp Watch 2019", we should probably keep track of FCS teams that get beat by the next lower division. I was a bit surprised to see how many there were in week 2.

Week 1:
None

Week 2:
Kentucky State (@ Robert Morris) - 13-7
East Stroudsburg (@ Wagner) - 24-14 (FYI: Wagner lost to FBS Connecticut by 3...insert UConn football comment here)
Virginia Union (@ Hampton) - 36-17
Midwestern State (@ Northwestern State) - 33-7
Tarleton State (@ Stephen F. Austin) - 37-26
Truman State (@ Drake) - 10-7

Too close for comfort (within two scores):
Morehouse College (@ Alabama A&M) - 30-35
Indiana Wesleyan (@ Butler) - 27-30 (OT)
Central Washington (@ Idaho) - 31-41

I was wondering, on average, how many of these there are each year. Just seemed like a lot in one week (or even for the season). It appears that Drake and Butler are not going to help the Fighting Hawks' or the Bison's SOS. xlolx

Tarleton and Midwestern State are quality D2's and happened to draw rebuilding SLC programs. SFA is playing mostly freshmen under a new regime, while Northwestern State is struggling to find themselves in the 2nd year of new staff. In our weekly SLC picks thread, I almost picked the D2's to win but went ahead and took the home teams. I'm not surprised by either outcome.

[caribbeanhen]

FCS only has 2 scalps right? truth is the bottom half of FCS would get whipped in the Div 2 playoffs

[bonarae]

FCS only has 2 scalps right? truth is the bottom half of FCS would get whipped in the Div 2 playoffs

I'm afraid we've only got two so far, with more than 10 close calls.

[smilo]

PA sportsbook was offering odds on the Kentucky State game. We joked around about putting money at +1300 (or +1700?) iirc. Very sad to miss out on that! Need to study up on D2 a little better aside from my three or four niche conferences.

[bonarae]

Worth reading...

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2019-09-07/we-tracked-every-dii-football-vs-fcs-upset-saturday-heres-how-they

[CHIP72]

Considering the board this is being posted on, I think "D2 Over FCS Scalped Watch 2019" would be more appropriate. Using "Nod to Laker - D2 over FCS wins 2019" (in recognition of the biggest D2 fan who also posts on here and but also follows/appreciates FCS football) or something similar would be appropriate too.

[CHIP72]

PA sportsbook was offering odds on the Kentucky State game. We joked around about putting money at +1300 (or +1700?) iirc. Very sad to miss out on that! Need to study up on D2 a little better aside from my three or four niche conferences.

Kentucky State went 0-10 in 2018, though they only suffered one true blowout (20+ point) loss last year.

[CHIP72]

I watched all but the first 5 minutes of the East Stroudsburg/Wagner game. ESU outplayed the Seahawks in the 1st half and deserved their 21-7 halftime lead. In the 2nd half, Wagner was the better team, but they shot themselves in the foot with big penalties a couple times and the Warriors' bend but do not break defense worked well. East Stroudsburg didn't move the ball much in the 2nd half until their last non-kneel down possession, when they moved the ball from inside their 10 yard line down to inside the Wagner 30 yard line and kicked a long field goal to essentially ice the game (took a 24-14 lead with a little more than a minute left and Wagner had zero timeouts remaining). ESU, who finished 2-9 last season and saw their long-time (since 1974) head coach Denny Douds retire with a few seconds left in their final regular season home game (which wasn't their final regular season game) and is trying to right the ship under former ESU quarterback Jimmy Terwilliger (who won the Harlon Hill Trophy, the equivalent of the Walter Payton Award in D2, during his mid-2000s playing days), IMO deserved to beat Wagner based on how the entire game went.

One other note - with two losses over the weekend to D2 teams to teams that went a combined 2-19 in 2018, the NEC ended up with a lot of egg on its face.

[aceinthehole]

I watched all but the first 5 minutes of the East Stroudsburg/Wagner game. ESU outplayed the Seahawks in the 1st half and deserved their 21-7 halftime lead. In the 2nd half, Wagner was the better team, but they shot themselves in the foot with big penalties a couple times and the Warriors' bend but do not break defense worked well. East Stroudsburg didn't move the ball much in the 2nd half until their last non-kneel down possession, when they moved the ball from inside their 10 yard line down to inside the Wagner 30 yard line and kicked a long field goal to essentially ice the game (took a 24-14 lead with a little more than a minute left and Wagner had zero timeouts remaining). ESU, who finished 2-9 last season and saw their long-time (since 1974) head coach Denny Douds retire with a few seconds left in their final regular season home game (which wasn't their final regular season game) and is trying to right the ship under former ESU quarterback Jimmy Terwilliger (who won the Harlon Hill Trophy, the equivalent of the Walter Payton Award in D2, IMO deserved to beat Wagner based on how the entire game went.

One other note - with two losses over the weekend to D2 teams to teams that went a combined 2-19 in 2018, the NEC ended up with a lot of egg on its face.

Agreed. And Wagner has a history of losing to lower division opponents.

2019 - East Stroudsburg 24, Wagner 14 (Staten Island, N.Y)
2013 - Merrimack 42, Wagner 41 (Staten Island, N.Y.)
2010 - Wagner 9, Assumption 24 (Worcester, Mass.)
2009 - Stonehill 45, Wagner 42 (Staten Island, N.Y.)
2008 - Wagner 13, Stonehill 14, (North Easton, Mass.)

That being said, the NEC is 3-0 vs. the Patriot League this season with 3 more games on the schedule :)

Saint Francis 14, Lehigh 13
Central Conn. 26, Fordham 23
Bucknell 10, Sacred Heart 30
Sacred Heart @ Lafayette
Fordham @ Bryant
Lehigh @ Sacred Heart

[CHIP72]

There’s a reason why the Patriot League avoids scheduling D2 games. :)


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[RedFlash]

I have long thought that the top half of the PSAC (IUP, Slippery Rock, West Chester) could easily finish in the top three of the NEC.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile...

Taylor University in Indiana (NAIA) slays Butler 17-14.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Meanwhile...

Taylor University in Indiana (NAIA) slays Butler 17-14.

Butler was so close to making the original list. Decided to take the plunge this time. Basketball season is just around the corner, right...right?

[Preferred Walk-On]

Meanwhile...

Taylor University in Indiana (NAIA) slays Butler 17-14.

NDSU's SOS just took another hit. Thank goodness UND won today. :D

[Preferred Walk-On]

Truman State is now 2-0 against FCS this year. Beat Valpo today 38-7.


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[dewey]

NDSU's SOS just took another hit. Thank goodness UND won today. :D

For the record. GFCC winning is NEVER a good thing!

Go Bison!

Dewey

[dgtw]

Truman State is now 2-0 against FCS this year. Beat Valpo today 38-7.


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Give ‘em Hell, Harry!!!


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[Preferred Walk-On]

For the record. GFCC winning is NEVER a good thing!

Go Bison!

Dewey

Yeah, it would be really bad if community colleges (1) had football teams, and (2) these football teams were actually beating FCS teams. That would never be a good thing. Thank goodness that is not really a thing.

[mvfcfan]

Truman State is now 2-0 against FCS this year. Beat Valpo today 38-7.


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Both wins came against the two private "MVC" schools that sponsor football. Congrats to Truman State!

What's strange though is that their Valpo game was actually a home game for them. I'm guessing this is about as uncommon as FBS schools playing on the road at FCS schools.

[CHIP72]

Yeah, it would be really bad if community colleges (1) had football teams, and (2) these football teams were actually beating FCS teams. That would never be a good thing. Thank goodness that is not really a thing.

In some parts of the U.S., football-playing community colleges are actually relatively common (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_college_football_programs).

[JacksFan40]

In some parts of the U.S., football-playing community colleges are actually relatively common (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_college_football_programs).
There’s an entire league for community colleges and other 2 year schools called the NJCAA. There was an entire Netflix series about one in Mississippi.

[ST_Lawson]

In some parts of the U.S., football-playing community colleges are actually relatively common (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_college_football_programs).

I assumed they were being sarcastic...I don't think anyone who follows FCS football like most of the people around here do would not be aware of the JUCO system.

[Preferred Walk-On]

There’s an entire league for community colleges and other 2 year schools called the NJCAA. There was an entire Netflix series about one in Mississippi.

Thanks for the correction. I should have remembered that NDSCS has a team. However, I am pretty sure an NJCAA team has not beaten an FCS team this year (or in a long while) - waiting for someone to fact-check this. Also, I could not find any team with the initials GFCC (or even just GF, assuming the CC is implied) in the NJCAA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There’s a reason why the Patriot League avoids scheduling D2 games. :)


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Imagine a PL-PSAC challenge this year. It would not be pretty for the Patriot League. Somehow our conference is still ranked higher than the NEC by the computer ratings systems -- a little bit of a head-scratcher if you ask me.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Thanks for the correction. I should have remembered that NDSCS has a team. However, I am pretty sure an NJCAA team has not beaten an FCS team this year (or in a long while) - waiting for someone to fact-check this. Also, I could not find any team with the initials GFCC (or even just GF, assuming the CC is implied) in the NJCAA.

I didn't know 2-year and 4-year colleges ever played against each other. Maybe in a meet format like track/cross country or in a golf tournament. There are many FCS-NAIA football games each year and basketball games against NAIA and random unaccredited bible colleges but I can't recall ever seeing DI vs. JUCO in any major team sport.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Both wins came against the two private "MVC" schools that sponsor football. Congrats to Truman State!

What's strange though is that their Valpo game was actually a home game for them. I'm guessing this is about as uncommon as FBS schools playing on the road at FCS schools.

FCS teams traveling to lower division schools is actually much more common than FCS hosting FBS. Pioneer teams travel to D-II/III/NAIA every year. The old MAAC schools used to do the same. Georgetown plays AT CATHOLIC in a couple years assuming the remainder of that series doesn't get cancelled.

But outside of Georgetown and the Pioneer League, I would say yes it would be very rare now for FCS to travel to D2.

- - - Updated - - -

[CHIP72]

Imagine a PL-PSAC challenge this year. It would not be pretty for the Patriot League. Somehow our conference is still ranked higher than the NEC by the computer ratings systems -- a little bit of a head-scratcher if you ask me.

Well, East Stroudsburg (PSAC) already beat Wagner (NEC) this season, so perhaps that helps explain how the Patriot League is ranked higher than the NEC!


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[Catbooster]

FCS teams traveling to lower division schools is actually much more common than FCS hosting FBS. Pioneer teams travel to D-II/III/NAIA every year. The old MAAC schools used to do the same. Georgetown plays AT CATHOLIC in a couple years assuming the remainder of that series doesn't get cancelled.

But outside of Georgetown and the Pioneer League, I would say yes it would be very rare now for FCS to travel to D2.

- - - Updated - - -
Unless there's some traditional rivalry or something, I can't see why any FCS school would travel to a lower level school. I haven't seen it happen in our conference that I recall.

If we're playing a lower level school, it's to have another home game. They aren't as expensive to bring in (we're usually able to bring in an FCS school but it's more expensive - a benefit of having good ticket sales). If you're going to travel, it might as well be a home and home with an FCS school that will count toward playoffs (and be a better/more interesting match-up).

[bonarae]

Charleston whacks Valpo deep into the abyss, 19-13. Moreover, Jackson State is stopped by Kentucky State, 33-25. Both scalps were by D-IIs.

[bonarae]

Missouri S&T over Texas Southern 23-20

[walliver]

Unless there's some traditional rivalry or something, I can't see why any FCS school would travel to a lower level school. I haven't seen it happen in our conference that I recall.

If we're playing a lower level school, it's to have another home game. They aren't as expensive to bring in (we're usually able to bring in an FCS school but it's more expensive - a benefit of having good ticket sales). If you're going to travel, it might as well be a home and home with an FCS school that will count toward playoffs (and be a better/more interesting match-up).

The Citadel traveled to North Greenville a few years ago - but that was a hurricane-related event.

[kdinva]

Jackson State is stopped by Kentucky State, 33-25.

That's 2 for Ky. State

[ElCid]

The Citadel traveled to North Greenville a few years ago - but that was a hurricane-related event.

Hey that was a good deal for me as N Greenville is only about 25 miles from my house. Since they evacuated Chucktown, and all the low country refugees came west any way, I think they set an attendance record and we outnumbered them by 2-3 to 1 I think. They actually have a pretty nice stadium. Better than CSU.xlolx

[FUBeAR]

They actually have a pretty nice stadium. Better than CSU.xlolx

Full stadium or half stadium? If it has 2 permanent sides, it might be nicer than another stadium not too far from CSU’s.

(it IS rivalry week y’know - all ammo must be discharged)

[ElCid]

Full stadium or half stadium? If it has 2 permanent sides, it might be nicer than another stadium not too far from CSU’s.

(it IS rivalry week y’know - all ammo must be discharged)

Two sides. Not huge but very nice. Yeah yeah, I know. When we built it, they will come. These things take time and.....$$.