FCS schools put on warning

[griz37]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2857999

Includes Ga. Southern & Grambling St.

[CopperCat]

Yikes!!! Not a good deal to be in!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To me, I don't think these APR measurements are very fair at all.

Please, somebody explain to me why Chatty needs to be penalized 6.30 scholarships while Florida and Auburn combined are penalized 0. You're trying to tell me that Chatty is deserving of punishment while Florida and Auburn are bastions of academics? Give me a break.

[BigApp]

If they're on the list each of the next two years, they could be disqualified from NCAA tournaments.


xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx xeekx

[griz37]

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g3NPUGSYGYxqb6kW hCjhgihqYeCDFfj_zcVH1v_QD9gtzQ0IhyR0UAA4M5xQ!!/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvUUd3QndNQSEvNElVRS82XzBfTFU!?CONTENT_URL=h ttp://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/apr/2005-06/school_data.html

If you click on this link you can search to see how your school performed.

[BigApp]

The list (in order of appearance in the article):


Centenary
Grambling
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
McNeese State
Nicholls State (four sports)
Southern
Texas Southern (five sports)
Tennessee-Chattanooga
San Jose State
Florida International
Georgia Southern
Thirteen women's teams were cited, compared with 99 men's squads.

[Za-KEE-uS]

EDIT
Centenary, Grambling, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, McNeese State, Nicholls State and Southern.
Sad day in Louisiana history

[Lehigh Football Nation]

EDIT
Centenary, Grambling, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, McNeese State, Nicholls State and Southern.
Sad day in Louisiana history

Um, gee, think Hurricane Katrina had anything to do with this?

[patssle]

http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/apr/2005-06/teams_subject_to_penalties.html

list of all schools this past year facing penalties. 4 SLC schools are on there including Texas State - San Marcos in football...you know our D1June1 buddies.

[CitadelGrad]

To me, I don't think these APR measurements are very fair at all.

Please, somebody explain to me why Chatty needs to be penalized 6.30 scholarships while Florida and Auburn combined are penalized 0. You're trying to tell me that Chatty is deserving of punishment while Florida and Auburn are bastions of academics? Give me a break.

Florida and Auburn are pretty good schools, especially Auburn's engineering programs. Whether they hold their athletes to lofty academic standards is another question, but it appears they are doing something right.

[Za-KEE-uS]

Um, gee, think Hurricane Katrina had anything to do with this?
It shouldn't have for us, the sports mentioned for Nicholls were Baseball, men's cross country and women's indoor and outdoor track. I just checked the rosters and only 5 players in those sports were from areas hit hard by Katrina. I guess you could have said Katrina could have effected people's priority, but none of these schools took the type of damage Tulane or UNO or other schools in N.O., they were "inconvenienced" for a while. I dont know the situations at other schools

[ucdtim17]

Sac State is losing 2.5 football schollies on top of 2.3 from last year

[aggie6thman]

Florida and Auburn are pretty good schools, especially Auburn's engineering programs. Whether they hold their athletes to lofty academic standards is another question, but it appears they are doing something right.

How many football players at either one of those schools are engineering majors? I would be surprised if one player was.

[AppGuy04]

How many football players at either one of those schools are engineering majors? I would be surprised if one player was.

I agree, the school as a whole does not reflect the academics of the football team

[McNeeserocket]

It shouldn't have for us, the sports mentioned for Nicholls were Baseball, men's cross country and women's indoor and outdoor track. I just checked the rosters and only 5 players in those sports were from areas hit hard by Katrina. I guess you could have said Katrina could have effected people's priority, but none of these schools took the type of damage Tulane or UNO or other schools in N.O., they were "inconvenienced" for a while. I dont know the situations at other schools

Even though the NCAA did not mention Hurricane Rita (no surprise as it is hardly mentioned by most people or Federal agencies), I believe that the NCAA is/will take into account the catastrophic damage done by Hurricane Rita to SWLA, including McNeese (who had over $30,000,000 in damage). A large # of students dropped out of school at McNeese after the September hurricane and the #s dropped further for the Spring of 2006. For example, the football team had to relocate to Southeastern LA campus for over a month because McNeese was closed for 5 weeks and the city of closed and under Marshall Law for over two weeks.

Many McNeese students were hit twice by both Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. In August, Hurricane Katrina hit Southeast Louisiana and in September Hurricane Rita hit Southwest Louisiana, causing damage to some student’s real homes and again to their university home. I would say Louisiana students in general were hit hard, even those students going to school in northern areas of the state. Everyone in Louisiana was impacted

McNeese is still without the use of many buildings, some of which are main classroom buildings. In addition, 70% of Apartment dwellings are still closed or completely destroyed. All of it makes it hard to find a place to live so you can go to school!

[Za-KEE-uS]

Even though the NCAA did not mention Hurricane Rita (no surprise as it is hardly mentioned by most people or Federal agencies), I believe that the NCAA is/will take into account the catastrophic damage done by Hurricane Rita to SWLA, including McNeese (who had over $30,000,000 in damage). A large # of students dropped out of school at McNeese after the September hurricane and the #s dropped further for the Spring of 2006. For example, the football team had to relocate to Southeastern LA campus for over a month because McNeese was closed for 5 weeks and the city of closed and under Marshall Law for over two weeks.

Many McNeese students were hit twice by both Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. In August, Hurricane Katrina hit Southeast Louisiana and in September Hurricane Rita hit Southwest Louisiana, causing damage to some student’s real homes and again to their university home. I would say Louisiana students in general were hit hard, even those students going to school in northern areas of the state. Everyone in Louisiana was impacted

McNeese is still without the use of many buildings, some of which are main classroom buildings. In addition, 70% of Apartment dwellings are still closed or completely destroyed. All of it makes it hard to find a place to live so you can go to school!
I wasnt saying the Hurricanes didnt cause a large amount of damage, it just seems weird to me that our baseball and track teams were listed and no other sports. I also forgot about Rita, that situation was terrible. I just dont like people to put ALL the blame on the hurricanes.

[BigApp]

Um, gee, think Hurricane Katrina had anything to do with this?

very likely! Maybe not the campus' directly, but the kids families and homes...

[ucdtim17]

I agree, the school as a whole does not reflect the academics of the football team


Other way around. Michigan is a prime example of this (as is Cal and I say that as a Cal fan)

[GeauxColonels]

The list (in order of appearance in the article):


Centenary
Grambling
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
McNeese State
Nicholls State (four sports)
Southern
Texas Southern (five sports)
Tennessee-Chattanooga
San Jose State
Florida International
Georgia Southern
Thirteen women's teams were cited, compared with 99 men's squads.

xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx
xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

[Death Dealer]

Furman seems to be doing O.K.

http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042707aaa.html

NCAA Honors Seven Furman Teams For High Academic Achievement
Furman Selections Pace All South Carolina Division I Schools

April 27, 2007

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- The NCAA has honored seven Furman University athletic teams with public recognition awards for their latest Academic Progress Rate (APR) scores, the organization has announced.

The seven Furman teams cited include football, men's basketball, women's basketball, men's golf, women's tennis, women's indoor track, and women's outdoor track.

These teams posted multi-year APR scores in the top 10 percent of all squads in their respective sports. The public recognition awards are part of the broad Division I academic reform effort.

A total of 839 teams received awards this year representing 217 Division I colleges and universities, or two-thirds of the 326 institutions that compete in NCAA Division I athletics. High-performing teams receiving awards posted APR scores ranging from 975 to a perfect 1,000, said NCAA President Myles Brand.

[GaSouthern]

this sucks!

[ngineer]

Um, gee, think Hurricane Katrina had anything to do with this?

I think the rankings are for the past three years, so I don't know if this past year's academic year would be included.

[ngineer]

How many football players at either one of those schools are engineering majors? I would be surprised if one player was.

Excellent point. A lot of us don't have any 'majors' you can hide athletes in...xnodx

[jessesd]

To me, I don't think these APR measurements are very fair at all.

Please, somebody explain to me why Chatty needs to be penalized 6.30 scholarships while Florida and Auburn combined are penalized 0. You're trying to tell me that Chatty is deserving of punishment while Florida and Auburn are bastions of academics? Give me a break.

We are not only good in sports, we are a well balanced school. Top 50 in undergrad academics, top 30 in Business and rather good in research, medicine, architecture and law.
my signature tells it all!!xrulesx

[aggie6thman]

We are not only good in sports, we are a well balanced school. Top 50 in undergrad academics, top 30 in Business and rather good in research, medicine, architecture and law.
my signature tells it all!!xrulesx

You can't tell me you honestly think that Flori-duh doesn't make exceptions to athletes who don't make minimum requirements?

[jessesd]

As a faculty member; I can tell you everyone does to a certain extend allowance for missing classes that normal students don't get, private tutors, etc. Almost every school has a support program of some type or form. The two California systems do it too.

[chattanoogamocs]

Florida and Auburn are pretty good schools, especially Auburn's engineering programs. Whether they hold their athletes to lofty academic standards is another question, but it appears they are doing something right.

There is a reason why you see almost no BCS schools on the report...they have millions to spend on tutors, advisors, etc...most FCS level schools have one person, maybe two (and some student tutors) to handle academics for a whole program (FCS players are much more "on their own" to make it academically...BCS schools will pull you through kicking and screaming).

Chattanooga's problems came mainly from retention. Rodney Allison came in and cleaned house...and while it was better for the program, it killed retention and progress towards graduation scores.

The other big problem was the 6 players thrown out of school during the rape allegations (ahem, I am still waiting to hear a public apology like the Duke lax players got). In retrospect, the school should have suspended them from the team, but let them stay and take classes. Sadly, in the 21st century, guilty until proven innocent reigns supreme (I am amazed that all the players didn't sue the school...because basically it ruined them all academically)

But...I must say that Rodney Allison has worked very hard to rectify the situation...the last two recruiting clases have had an average ACT score of over 21. I know that isn't huge, but for a public school, it is pretty good (and it is above the national average for freshman entering college).

BTW...(off topic)
as for Engineering programs...Chattanooga has a doctorate in Computational Engineering that has been rated higher than MIT's xthumbsupx

[aggie6thman]

As a faculty member; I can tell you everyone does to a certain extend allowance for missing classes that normal students don't get, private tutors, etc. Almost every school has a support program of some type or form. The two California systems do it too.

I have no doubt that the CSU and UC system do it too, my point is that you don't see anyone as an engineering or bio sci major at major schools. They are usual American Studies, Rec Majors, etc. Elliot Vallejo left UCLA because he didn't want to be a history, he wanted to be an engineer. Athletes at major schools get fluff majors so they can slide through college.

[Maroon&White]

I have no doubt that the CSU and UC system do it too, my point is that you don't see anyone as an engineering or bio sci major at major schools. They are usual American Studies, Rec Majors, etc. Elliot Vallejo left UCLA because he didn't want to be a history, he wanted to be an engineer. Athletes at major schools get fluff majors so they can slide through college.

Are you honestly saying history is a fluff major? xlolx xlolx

[bluehenbillk]

The dead-pan sign of a guilty school is trying to throw other schools under the bus. Bottom Line: Take care of your own house, dumb-asses.

[813Jag]

From the Baton Rouge Advocate: Southen and Nicholls State taking steps to improve APR problem (http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/southern/featured/7310116.html).

[P2TheB]

I have a question.

Say that your team's football program was hit with a 4 scholarship reduction, but that program already (due to budget issues) only gives out 60 of the maximum 64 scholarships. Does that mean that the school really doesn't take a hit, or is that 4 taken out of a historical average of scholarships given out?

Just curious. Thanks guys!

[jessesd]

The dead-pan sign of a guilty school is trying to throw other schools under the bus. Bottom Line: Take care of your own house, dumb-asses.

amen brother!!!! halleluya!!!! xlolx xlolx xlolx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Tribe4SF]

this sucks!

Indeed it does! There has been ample warning of these sanctions, and schools should in no way be surprised. Georgia Southern's overall performance can only be described as abysmal. Your AD is obviously not taking care of business. With the cross section of sports involved, problems would appear to be institutionalized within the athletic department. If I were President at GSU, I'd be looking for new leadership for that department.

Some have questioned whether the data is old. The three years included are 2003-2004; 2004-2005; and 2005-2006. That's about as current as one can get.

[catdaddy2402]

The dead-pan sign of a guilty school is trying to throw other schools under the bus. Bottom Line: Take care of your own house, dumb-asses.
Amen!

[McNeeserocket]

I have a question.

Say that your team's football program was hit with a 4 scholarship reduction, but that program already (due to budget issues) only gives out 60 of the maximum 64 scholarships. Does that mean that the school really doesn't take a hit, or is that 4 taken out of a historical average of scholarships given out?

Just curious. Thanks guys!

I thought FCS football schools could only give 63 scholarships. Has the number changed?

[Jiggs]

To me, I don't think these APR measurements are very fair at all.

Please, somebody explain to me why Chatty needs to be penalized 6.30 scholarships while Florida and Auburn combined are penalized 0. You're trying to tell me that Chatty is deserving of punishment while Florida and Auburn are bastions of academics? Give me a break.


Why ding Auburn? Read this article.

http://bceagles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052306aaa.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Indeed it does! There has been ample warning of these sanctions, and schools should in no way be surprised. Georgia Southern's overall performance can only be described as abysmal. Your AD is obviously not taking care of business. With the cross section of sports involved, problems would appear to be institutionalized within the athletic department. If I were President at GSU, I'd be looking for new leadership for that department.

Some have questioned whether the data is old. The three years included are 2003-2004; 2004-2005; and 2005-2006. That's about as current as one can get.

That's an awfully sweeping statement... My question -- is this true? I don't know if it's true.

Chatty's example proves illuminating.


Chattanooga's problems came mainly from retention. Rodney Allison came in and cleaned house...and while it was better for the program, it killed retention and progress towards graduation scores.

So Allison does the right thing, and then gets punished for it? Couldn't it be that GSU is/was doing the same? I have no inside knowledge of anything like this at GSU or anywhere, but the question ought to be raised.

Also, from the article:


“In my opinion, the results have a lot more to do with financial issues than race,” LaFleur said. “The big schools in the major conferences have a lot more money for academic resources than we do.”

You can argue that the standards are "forcing" big schools to spend more time and energy on athletics, which may be a good thing. But, as always, the "victims" are the schools that don't have the $$$ to spend on personal tutors for each athlete.

Let me put it this way: The study is trying to tell me that NO BCS schools have ANY problems with academics, while smaller schools and FCS-level institutions are rife with violations. What's the chance that's REALLY true? I mean, should there REALLY be a congressional investigation about HBCU's and smaller schools (which were the majority of "violators") not adhering to academic standards?

Does this really pass the smell test?

[kardplayer]

Any one know what this line from the article means?

"Lennon said he expects the results will be more balanced next year, when the NCAA drops a mathematical calculation that helped some BCS teams this year."

[Franks Tanks]

I have a question.

Say that your team's football program was hit with a 4 scholarship reduction, but that program already (due to budget issues) only gives out 60 of the maximum 64 scholarships. Does that mean that the school really doesn't take a hit, or is that 4 taken out of a historical average of scholarships given out?

Just curious. Thanks guys!

It is a reduction from the maximum amount available, which is 63 by the way. I remember years back when Notre Dame was dinged for some booster infractions by having some scholarships removed. It had absolutely no effect on them as at that time-Mid 90's- they were notirious for not even using their full compliment of scholarships as dumb as that is.

[ButlerGSU]

It has been said but the APR ratings are based on numbers from a few years back. A lot of people on here did not agree with GSU firing Mike Sewak but we're being punished now for his teams. This played a big role in him being let go. Not that I relieve the A.D. Sam Baker of all his responsibility.

[dbackjon]

NAU lost four schollies, despite raising last years APR ot 910. Almost there. NAU's numbers are hurt by some poor recruiting decision of a few years ago - those bad apples have been weeded out, but still hurt the numbers.

[ucdtim17]

It is a reduction from the maximum amount available, which is 63 by the way. I remember years back when Notre Dame was dinged for some booster infractions by having some scholarships removed. It had absolutely no effect on them as at that time-Mid 90's- they were notirious for not even using their full compliment of scholarships as dumb as that is.


Next year it's looking like ND might finally be using all 85. Thanks, Ty

[Ronbo]

There is a reason why you see almost no BCS schools on the report...they have millions to spend on tutors, advisors, etc...most FCS level schools have one person, maybe two (and some student tutors) to handle academics for a whole program (FCS players are much more "on their own" to make it academically...BCS schools will pull you through kicking and screaming).

Chattanooga's problems came mainly from retention. Rodney Allison came in and cleaned house...and while it was better for the program, it killed retention and progress towards graduation scores.

The other big problem was the 6 players thrown out of school during the rape allegations (ahem, I am still waiting to hear a public apology like the Duke lax players got). In retrospect, the school should have suspended them from the team, but let them stay and take classes. Sadly, in the 21st century, guilty until proven innocent reigns supreme (I am amazed that all the players didn't sue the school...because basically it ruined them all academically)

But...I must say that Rodney Allison has worked very hard to rectify the situation...the last two recruiting clases have had an average ACT score of over 21. I know that isn't huge, but for a public school, it is pretty good (and it is above the national average for freshman entering college).

BTW...(off topic)
as for Engineering programs...Chattanooga has a doctorate in Computational Engineering that has been rated higher than MIT's xthumbsupx

We've had trouble with Div IA transfers, it's OK to say that because they all came here when it was still IA. They come in and play football, accumulate credits, then when their playing days are over they go back to the school they came from and get their degree. It ends up counting against us for retention because the guy wants a Colorado, Washington State, or Washington degree.

[Za-KEE-uS]

xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx
xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx
4 sports is very misleading, our indoor/outdoor track teams consists of the same girls and our men's cross country team is less than 5 people.

[chattanoogamocs]

It is a reduction from the maximum amount available, which is 63 by the way. I remember years back when Notre Dame was dinged for some booster infractions by having some scholarships removed. It had absolutely no effect on them as at that time-Mid 90's- they were notirious for not even using their full compliment of scholarships as dumb as that is.

Just to concur with what was stated above (in answering the previous question)...I know the Chattanooga wrestling team lost a 1/2 scholarship, but they said in the paper that it didn't really matter because they didn't fund a full allotment of scholarships anyway.

[CID1990]

Louisiana APR Ratings = Katrina's fault

Katrina = George Bush's fault














Louisiana schools' APR rating = George Bush's fault.

[PantherRob82]

George Bush hates HBCU's (Source: Kanye West)

[I Bleed Purple]

Weber State lost 3.68 scholarships.

[Tod]

Louisiana APR Ratings = Katrina's fault

Katrina = George Bush's fault














Louisiana schools' APR rating = George Bush's fault.

George W. Bush = Japanese fault, for lack of agressiveness! :p :p













speaking of neg rep points...:D

[Tribe4SF]

It has been said but the APR ratings are based on numbers from a few years back. A lot of people on here did not agree with GSU firing Mike Sewak but we're being punished now for his teams. This played a big role in him being let go. Not that I relieve the A.D. Sam Baker of all his responsibility.

Last I checked, Sewak coached only the football team while at GSU. Baker should be answering for the overall issue within his department.

The ratings cover the last three years. Two under Sewak...one under Van Gorder...all under Baker.

[g-webb1994]

IMO, especially at private schools or even public schools with small enrollment, you can get a better picture on academic performance of an athletic program, by sport or as a whole, when you compare them directly to the academic performance of the entire student body as a whole.

Maybe a GSUer on here can find some info. on the overall graduation rate of the student body at GSU, and draw a comparison.

I can't brag about G-W's academic prowess in relation to athletics, football stubbed their toes a year or two ago, and especially since we still have the clod men's hoops coach that was right in the middle of that grade scandal a few years ago.xbangx xbangx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The dead-pan sign of a guilty school is trying to throw other schools under the bus. Bottom Line: Take care of your own house, dumb-asses.

It's just the opposite. The SMALLER schools that refuse to or are unable to spoon-feed their players get thrown under the bus. That and you have to remember that these NCAA committees are usually made up of people from big schools (if not big, then wealthy ones) that know how to cover their own asses while leaving the smaller schools out in the cold...hey, someone has to fail so the new rules don't look like a complete joke and that everyone else can shine by comparison...

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Maybe a GSUer on here can find some info. on the overall graduation rate of the student body at GSU, and draw a comparison.


I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm fairly sure it's pretty much below average for schools in the same size and average freshman SAT range. We may not have the highest caliber students, but we don't give degrees away. Telling schools to do something about low graduation rates is about as logical as telling them to do something about low GPA averages of students...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's just the opposite. The SMALLER schools that refuse to or are unable to spoon-feed their players get thrown under the bus. That and you have to remember that these NCAA committees are usually made up of people from big schools (if not big, then wealthy ones) that know how to cover their own asses while leaving the smaller schools out in the cold...hey, someone has to fail so the new rules don't look like a complete joke and that everyone else can shine by comparison...

I agree. This data doesn't add up at all. That's why I'm working on a piece about this.