Making a case for Duquesne

[aceinthehole]

The defending NEC Champions and 2019 Preseason favorites have yet to play a game, but what causes the lack of respect?

The Dukes finished last season ranked #21 in the Final STATS FCS Poll, after completing the season with a 9-4 record and a convincing First Round FCS Playoff win at Towson. They were eliminated in the playoffs by National Semifinalist South Dakota State. Duquesne finished last season with 2 FBS losses, at UMass and Hawaii.

South Dakota State is currently ranked #3 and Towson is ranked #8.

Duquesne returns both the starting QB and an All-American RB to a team that haven't finished lower than 2nd place in the NEC over the past 4 seasons.

Duquesne also led the way by securing eight spots on the Preseason All-NEC Team, which was headlined by running back AJ Hines. Set for his senior season in the Steel City, Hines comes off a 2018 campaign during which he totaled 1,756 yards from scrimmage while playing his way to STATS FCS All-America First Team honors. The Dukes’ continuity on offense extends to the quarterback position following a fruitful first year for former Florida Atlantic transfer Daniel Parr.

Of the seven returning starters on Duquesne’s defense, three earned preseason all-NEC nods – one at each level of the unit. Lineman Kam Carter (Pittsburgh), linebacker Brett Zanotto (Maryland) and cornerback Reid Harrison-Ducros (Boise State) have produced plenty since transferring from FBS programs.

The odds makers recognize the the NEC "label" isn't an issue, but voter seem to hold that against our top teams. In week 1, both NEC opponents were ROAD FAVORITES against the Patriot League and won their games.

In the last 2 seasons Duquesne has a 17-7 record. Five of the 7 losses are to FBS teams (Liberty, UMass, & Hawaii) and SDSU twice! The other 2 league losses were by a total of 2 points!

Duquesne shouldn't have to wait to be shown the respect in the polls they have earned.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

@ Youngstown State and @ UNH will be good litmus tests for the Dukes. They're on my radar for sure.

[aceinthehole]

2015: 8-4; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 49-52 at William & Mary in NCAA First Round Playoffs
2016: 8-3; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 10-14 at NEC AQ Saint Francis
2017: 8-3; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 24-27 at FBS Liberty; L, 27-28 vs NEC AQ Central Conn.
2018: 9-4; 5-1 (NEC) - Win 31-10 at Towson in NCAA First Round; Two regular season FBS losses

Duquesne has a 33-14 record over the last 4 seasons; has won the NEC AQ twice; is 1-2 in the NCAA Playoffs; and has scheduled 3 FBS games.

[aceinthehole]

@ Youngstown State and @ UNH will be good litmus tests for the Dukes. They're on my radar for sure.

Agreed, they have a chance to earn it, but still no excuse for not being ranked heading into the game at YSU.

Any team from the PL, Ivy, or even the the MEAC with the same resume as Duquesne would already be ranked.

[GoBlueHens83]

Pre-season and early season polls don't mean a whole lot. If they win their games against YSU & UNH they will probably be ranked.

[aceinthehole]

Pre-season and early season polls don't mean a whole lot. If they win their games against YSU & UNH they will probably be ranked.

I get it, but that just different rules for different fools.

Delaware finished last season 7-5 and lost their final 3 games. Hens had just 2 wins vs. teams with a winning record (Towson and Elon).

Duquesne beat Towson in the playoffs.

So if rankings don't mean anything why is UD ranked and Duquesne is not?

Of course the preseason and early-season bias is very clear and on full display yet again. I enjoy reading how everyone who benefits from it tries to justifiy it.

[KPSUL]

The defending NEC Champions and 2019 Preseason favorites have yet to play a game, but what causes the lack of respect?

The Dukes finished last season ranked #21 in the Final STATS FCS Poll, after completing the season with a 9-4 record and a convincing First Round FCS Playoff win at Towson. They were eliminated in the playoffs by National Semifinalist South Dakota State. Duquesne finished last season with 2 FBS losses, at UMass and Hawaii.

South Dakota State is currently ranked #3 and Towson is ranked #8.

Duquesne returns both the starting QB and an All-American RB to a team that haven't finished lower than 2nd place in the NEC over the past 4 seasons.

Duquesne also led the way by securing eight spots on the Preseason All-NEC Team, which was headlined by running back AJ Hines. Set for his senior season in the Steel City, Hines comes off a 2018 campaign during which he totaled 1,756 yards from scrimmage while playing his way to STATS FCS All-America First Team honors. The Dukes’ continuity on offense extends to the quarterback position following a fruitful first year for former Florida Atlantic transfer Daniel Parr.

Of the seven returning starters on Duquesne’s defense, three earned preseason all-NEC nods – one at each level of the unit. Lineman Kam Carter (Pittsburgh), linebacker Brett Zanotto (Maryland) and cornerback Reid Harrison-Ducros (Boise State) have produced plenty since transferring from FBS programs.

The odds makers recognize the the NEC "label" isn't an issue, but voter seem to hold that against our top teams. In week 1, both NEC opponents were ROAD FAVORITES against the Patriot League and won their games.

In the last 2 seasons Duquesne has a 17-7 record. Five of the 7 losses are to FBS teams (Liberty, UMass, & Hawaii) and SDSU twice! The other 2 league losses were by a total of 2 points!

Duquesne shouldn't have to wait to be shown the respect in the polls they have earned.

I agree! They belong in the 15-20 range, and that's were I had them in the AGS poll.

[GoBlueHens83]

I get it, but that just different rules for different fools.

Delaware finished last season 7-5 and lost their final 3 games. Hens had just 2 wins vs. teams with a winning record (Towson and Elon).

Duquesne beat Towson in the playoffs.

So if rankings don't mean anything why is UD ranked and Duquesne is not?

Of course the preseason and early-season bias is very clear and on full display yet again. I enjoy reading how everyone who benefits from it tries to justifiy it.

Because these polls are just peoples opinion, and you know what they say about opinions... Delaware may or may not deserve their ranking, that remains to be seen, but UD doesn't have anything to do with this.

I wasn't saying Duquesne isn't worthy of a vote by the way, just saying that they have two games coming up against quality opponents and that if they win those, they will almost certainly be ranked.

[aceinthehole]

Because these polls are just peoples opinion, and you know what they say about opinions... Delaware may or may not deserve their ranking, that remains to be seen, but UD doesn't have anything to do with this.

I wasn't saying Duquesne isn't worthy of a vote by the way, just saying that they have two games coming up against quality opponents and that if they win those, they will almost certainly be ranked.

I agree, polls are too frequently littered with opinions that stink like poo. :)

But yes, UD and other teams have a lot to do with it. The advantage of being ranked in the preseason and week 1 is significant, especially as a result of slot voting.

UD is currently ranked #21, has a win over Delaware State (a 3-8 team last year) with the next 3 games at URI, vs. NDSU, and Penn. Assuming, the Hens beat the Rams and Quakers and lose to #1 NDSU - don't you think the current raking helps them immensely in the poll? They could easily be overvalued at week 4, as high as #12, due to the "head start" they got in the early polls.

Delaware is not alone. Towson at #8 seems exceedingly high considering they lost 4 of their last 5 games last season, including losing at home in the playoffs to the aforementioned Duquesne Dukes. The Tigers began the preseason at #11 and after a 28-21 win at the Citidel all of a sudden they are a Top-10 team - really?

Princeton and Dartmouth have been getting Top-20 votes despite the lack of any notable non-conference wins. These are teams that are rarely tested outside of the Ivy and Patriot, yet they too get a preseason "bump."

Another issue is that many voters will always look for excuses when evaluating a NEC team against the field. They will say, YSU is uranked if the Dukes lose; or a win against UNH doesn't mean as much because they are playing with an interim coach.

The fact is Duquesne should have started the season ranked and have the opportunity to move up in the rankings (or drop out) based on their performance.

[Bisonoline]

I always liked the name Dukane thats not spelled like this. xthumbsupx.

[Paladin1aa]

The Duquesne-YSU match up will be interesting. Dukes are the preseason pick to win their league . YSU is only picked to finish 7th in the MVFC. I expect YSU to be a heavy load for the Dukes, probably way too much. The opportunity to prove you are good is there.

[Laker]

I always liked the name Dukane thats not spelled like this. xthumbsupx.

Did Andy Dufresne go to Duquense?

[Bisonoline]

Did Andy Dufresne go to Duquense?

Oh manxthumbsupx

[Go Green]

Princeton and Dartmouth have been getting Top-20 votes despite the lack of any notable non-conference wins. These are teams that are rarely tested outside of the Ivy and Patriot, yet they too get a preseason "bump."


Dartmouth hasn't lost a nonconference game in five years. Among those were UNH and Towson.

Princeton has annihilated every team not named "Dartmouth."

In any event, if the Dukes keep it up, the voters will notice. Took Dartmouth a while to show up in the polls as well.

Goes for players as well. I protested when Dartmouth's Isiah Swann wasn't on early awards watch lists. The response was "be patient--let the season play out." Sure enough, he was a consensus First Team All American when the awards were given.

[UAalum72]

Did Andy Dufresne go to Duquense?
There's your problem. Voters don't want to write in Duquesne because it's too hard to spell.

[ysubigred]

The Duquesne-YSU match up will be interesting. Dukes are the preseason pick to win their league . YSU is only picked to finish 7th in the MVFC. I expect YSU to be a heavy load for the Dukes, probably way too much. The opportunity to prove you are good is there.

Plus 1 ^ YSU better be in "A" game mode in this one.

[ysubigred]

There's your problem. Voters don't want to write in Duquesne because it's too hard to spell.

LOL!! I'm from the area and still have to look it up every time I post about DU xdrunkyx

[Derby City Duke]

I've got the other Dukes #22 this week; gold star for me!

All kidding aside, I think they have the potential to be better than last year.

[Gangtackle11]

I had them in my top 25 this week. xpeacex

[ngineer]

Responding the the thread's creator: You have a good point and it ties into a post I made on another thread about the lack of respect the NEC still receives (or doesn't receive). A lot has to do with tradition and familiarity. The Dukes and some other NEC schools have certainly upped their game and consistently are taken lightly. Duquesne, as well as SFU, has always been seen as a "basketball school", which for some people cause them to be given short shrift. It will take time, but stay the course. The great thing about FCS is you get to do in the playoffs if you are for real.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I agree, polls are too frequently littered with opinions that stink like poo. :)

But yes, UD and other teams have a lot to do with it. The advantage of being ranked in the preseason and week 1 is significant, especially as a result of slot voting.

UD is currently ranked #21, has a win over Delaware State (a 3-8 team last year) with the next 3 games at URI, vs. NDSU, and Penn. Assuming, the Hens beat the Rams and Quakers and lose to #1 NDSU - don't you think the current raking helps them immensely in the poll? They could easily be overvalued at week 4, as high as #12, due to the "head start" they got in the early polls.

Delaware is not alone. Towson at #8 seems exceedingly high considering they lost 4 of their last 5 games last season, including losing at home in the playoffs to the aforementioned Duquesne Dukes. The Tigers began the preseason at #11 and after a 28-21 win at the Citidel all of a sudden they are a Top-10 team - really?

Princeton and Dartmouth have been getting Top-20 votes despite the lack of any notable non-conference wins. These are teams that are rarely tested outside of the Ivy and Patriot, yet they too get a preseason "bump."

Another issue is that many voters will always look for excuses when evaluating a NEC team against the field. They will say, YSU is uranked if the Dukes lose; or a win against UNH doesn't mean as much because they are playing with an interim coach.

The fact is Duquesne should have started the season ranked and have the opportunity to move up in the rankings (or drop out) based on their performance.

.........NOT SAYIN'.......YER NOT GOOD.......YA'S BEAT TOWSON IN PLAY-OFFS..........HOWEVERAH.....LOOKIN' FO' EXCUSES.......AH'D HALFTA....GO WHIFF STRENGTH O' SKEDS......WHICH IN POLLSTERS MINDS......LOOMS LARGE......JES' ASK NORFFERN IOWA......TOWSON CURRENTLY HAS.....4 RANKED TEAMS & FBS FLORIDA....ON DIS SEASONS SKED.....&......DELAWARE 4......TA DUQUESNE'S 0.........TOWSON & UD......NAVIGATED THRU EQUALLY TOUGH SKEDS LAST SEASON.......AN' EARNED SPOTS @ DANCE......WHILE DUQUESNE WENT AS CONFERENCE CHAMPS.........YOUSE PROVED YA BELONGED.....WHIFF WIN OVERAH TAGGERS.......BUT THEN CAME DUH....51-6 JACKRABBIT JUBILEE......STILL FRESH IN POLLSTER BEANIES........JES' KEEP WINNIN'.......BIG BOYS WILL CANNABILIZE.....AN' SPACES WILL OPEN........BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

As of week 1, Duquesne is ranked #55 among all FCS teams on Sagarin. This is much more objective than polls and is generally pretty close to reality, updated as the season moves on and additional games are played.

Not knocking Duquesne though you have to look at teams within the full net of FCS.

A big win can move them up more quickly than any poll.

[penguinpower]

Are you inferring that a win over Youngstown would be big? If that is the case how could a win over am I ranked team be considered a big win?

[aceinthehole]

Dukes Down Walsh 44-3 to Open 2019 Campaign

PITTSBURGH - Duquesne began the 2019 season right where it left off after a historic 2018 campaign, posting a 44-3 victory over visiting Walsh in the season opener on Saturday in front of a packed house at Arthur J. Rooney Field. The Dukes recorded a win in their home opener for the 12th consecutive year with the triumph.

Five different players found the end zone for Duquesne, which tallied 464 total yards in the victory and held the Cavaliers to just 73 total yards, including 55 through the air and 18 on the ground. DU held the Cavaliers to 19 yards in the second half, In addition, the Dukes are now 28-3 in non-conference contests under 15th-year head coach Jerry Schmitt.

Preseason All-American A.J. Hines (Wilson, N.C. / Fike) got the Dukes on the board first with a pair of touchdowns on runs of two and 57 yards to put DU up 13-0 early in the second quarter.
https://goduquesne.com/news/2019/9/7/football-dukes-down-walsh-44-3-to-open-2019-campaign.aspx

[Fordham]

Dukes Down Walsh 44-3 to Open 2019 Campaign

https://goduquesne.com/news/2019/9/7/football-dukes-down-walsh-44-3-to-open-2019-campaign.aspx

Didn't want to start a new thread, ace, but curious what your take is on the CCSU game this past Saturday? Thought the team I saw the previous week would have rolled more easily. Is there more to the story? Did they have a let down after week 1? Or is it possible that neither of our teams is as good as we thought it was?

[Schism55]

WTF is Walsh? Is that a girls prep school?!

[RedFlash]

WTF is Walsh? Is that a girls prep school?!

Small D-2 school in Canton, Ohio.

[RedFlash]

Ace - I agree with the premise of your original post, but the NEC does itself no favors when they routinely play D-2 schools - and then lose to them as Wagner and RMU did this past weekend. I can't blame any AGS voter for waiting to see how the Dukes perform for a few weeks before putting them in their top-25.

[clenz]

2015: 8-4; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 49-52 at William & Mary in NCAA First Round Playoffs
2016: 8-3; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 10-14 at NEC AQ Saint Francis
2017: 8-3; 5-1 (NEC) - Loss 24-27 at FBS Liberty; L, 27-28 vs NEC AQ Central Conn.
2018: 9-4; 5-1 (NEC) - Win 31-10 at Towson in NCAA First Round; Two regular season FBS losses

Duquesne has a 33-14 record over the last 4 seasons; has won the NEC AQ twice; is 1-2 in the NCAA Playoffs; and has scheduled 3 FBS games.
Here's the thing about those record.

Take the NEC out and here's the OOC games

2016
Crushed by Youngstown
Beat the second worst PL in Bucknell
Beat Non scholarship
Lost to start up Kennesaw

2017
crushed by South Dakota State
beat two non scholarships and a non D1

2018
Crushed by UMASS
beat 2 non scholarship teams and a non D1
Beat Towson in round 1
Curbed by SDSU

2019
Beat non D1
have a non scholarship
YSU
UNH

I will grant you the Towson win as being a hell of a win. The reality outside of that though is the record is largely inflated by beating non-scholarship teams and sub D1s. Duquesne is 1-5 against "quality" opponents. At some point you have to start winning those games - hell, not even winning but maybe not getting curbed.

My case agaist Duquesne is the same as a case against Kennesaw (with how they schedule and the conference they are in) or pretty much any Big South or PFL and most PL teams.

You beat literally no one of value. Your record is inflated by beating teams with zero scholarships and/or aren't D1.

My case against Duquense is to be a top 25 team you have to actually play and beat someone with a pulse.

Maybe Duquesne does that this year with UNH and YSU coming up.

Being the best NEC team is maybe good for like 22-25 99% of the time.

[aceinthehole]

Didn't want to start a new thread, ace, but curious what your take is on the CCSU game this past Saturday? Thought the team I saw the previous week would have rolled more easily. Is there more to the story? Did they have a let down after week 1? Or is it possible that neither of our teams is as good as we thought it was?

I think it is quite simple - CCSU is a good team, but not a great team. They are often undisciplined and inconsistent. Because their weakness is on the defensive side of the ball, opponents always have a chance to keep it close and/or score the upset. We've also been "lucky" on special teams in both games. We are just 3 for 6 on FGs and had quite a few "do overs" in both games due to time outs or penalties that have worked in our favor. The kid has a very strong leg, so distance isn't really a problem, but the mental part of the kicking game can creep in.

I do think Central is going to prove to be very good on the offensive side of the ball. We have an experienced QB that is a dual threat to run or pass. He's a natural leader, and we have a great OL and an athletic group of backs and receivers.

Our defense is too hard to figure out - they have made some big plays, but have also allowed some big ones. I would say we are weakest against the run, but we stuffed Merrimack this week. Both the Fordham and Merrimack QB had a lot of success against us. I think that is more of a positive signal for those QBs more than an issue with our secondary. That being said, if a team is going to beat us, they are likely have to put a lot of points on the board. I don't see us losing too many games where the opponent doesn't score at least 21 points.

More specific to you as a Fordham fan - I think you guys have a nice QB and your offense (WRs, TEs, RBs) will keep you in games all year in the Patriot League. I think the PL is wide open and no reason the Rams can't win some big games in the league.

Interesting fact: CCSU is one of just five FCS teams with two defensive touchdowns on the year.

[aceinthehole]

I will grant you the Towson win as being a hell of a win.

Fine, but even this win is being ignore.

Duquesne is 2-1 in its last 3 games played, including 1-1 vs. Top 10 teams!!!!!

W, 31-10 @ #9 Towson - NCAA First Round
L, 51-6 @ #3 South Dakota State - NCAA Second Round
W, 44-3 vs. Walsh (D2)

So explain why Princeton and Yale are getting votes and they haven't played a game this year or had a playoff win like the Dukes have

[clenz]

Towson and SDSU mean nothing for this year...but I'd tell you getting curbed 51-6 is going to take anyone out of the poll, regardless what they did the week before.

D2 doesn't mean **** to me. A D2 to an FCS should be like a FCS to any P5.

As I said, if you want to look at history then we open it up and actually start to look at things that would pin point where you fall in the hierarchy of the FCS. Based on historical perfomances you aren't a top 25 team. Being 5-1 against the NEC doesn't mean a ton to me. I think SIU/WIU/MSU/ISUb go 4-2 or 5-1 against the NEC most years

[aceinthehole]

Towson and SDSU mean nothing for this year...but I'd tell you getting curbed 51-6 is going to take anyone out of the poll, regardless what they did the week before.

D2 doesn't mean **** to me. A D2 to an FCS should be like a FCS to any P5.

As I said, if you want to look at history then we open it up and actually start to look at things that would pin point where you fall in the hierarchy of the FCS. Based on historical perfomances you aren't a top 25 team. Being 5-1 against the NEC doesn't mean a ton to me. I think SIU/WIU/MSU/ISUb go 4-2 or 5-1 against the NEC most years

WHy is Princeton ranked?

How could an Ivy League team finish in the MVFC?

- - - Updated - - -


Towson and SDSU mean nothing for this year...but I'd tell you getting curbed 51-6 is going to take anyone out of the poll, regardless what they did the week before.

D2 doesn't mean **** to me. A D2 to an FCS should be like a FCS to any P5.

As I said, if you want to look at history then we open it up and actually start to look at things that would pin point where you fall in the hierarchy of the FCS. Based on historical perfomances you aren't a top 25 team. Being 5-1 against the NEC doesn't mean a ton to me. I think SIU/WIU/MSU/ISUb go 4-2 or 5-1 against the NEC most years

WHy is Princeton ranked?

How could an Ivy League team finish in the MVFC?

[BEAR]

Four pages in and have we made the case for Duquesome yet? xlolx

[Go Green]

WHy is Princeton ranked?

How could an Ivy League team finish in the MVFC?



Princeton went 10-0 last year and dominated every opponent not named Dartmouth. They were expected to bring most guys back. Turns out that five or six expected starters will be missing for various reasons. Not sure that the voters are aware of that, but if they are missed on the field, Princeton will lose some games and drop out of the polls.

As for the Ivy in the MVFC, depends which team you're talking about. 2018 Princeton was ranked 89 in Sagarin. I think they would have done just fine in the MVFC. Brown on the other hand...

[aceinthehole]

Princeton went 10-0 last year and dominated every opponent not named Dartmouth. They were expected to bring most guys back. Turns out that five or six expected starters will be missing for various reasons. Not sure that the voters are aware of that, but if they are missed on the field, Princeton will lose some games and drop out of the polls.

As for the Ivy in the MVFC, depends which team you're talking about. 2018 Princeton was ranked 89 in Sagarin. I think they would have done just fine in the MVFC. Brown on the other hand...

Duquesne also won a conference Championship, played in the NCAA playoffs, beat the #16 team on the road in the first round (that same team is currently #9). The Dukes went through 2018 regular season without being ranked until the final poll where they finished the season #22. Duquesne returns both the starting QB and an All-American RB to a team that haven't finished lower than 2nd place in the NEC over the past 4 seasons and have made the playoffs twice in the past 4 seasons.

So what happened since the end of last season to drop Duquesne from the poll and keep Princeton?

I know the answer, you know the answer, and everyone on the board knows the answer - NOTHING. The voters are simply more impressed by the name on the jersey and conference membership.

[Schism55]

Four pages in and have we made the case for Duquesome yet? xlolx
How dare you bring rationale into this, sir :D

[Go Green]

The voters are simply more impressed by the name on the jersey and conference membership.


In the voters' defense, the computers don't think much of the Dukes either. Duquesne was ranked 193 in the final 2018 Sagarin rankings. Today they're at 185.

As I said earlier--have patience. Win every game, and the rankings will follow.

[aceinthehole]

In the voters' defense, the computers don't think much of the Dukes either. Duquesne was ranked 193 in the final 2018 Sagarin rankings. Today they're at 185.

As I said earlier--have patience. Win every game, and the rankings will follow.

Let's be real. The IVY plays a 10-game schedule and don't have to schedule ROAD games for $$$ against ranked FCS team and FBS opponents. The Ivy League computer rankings aren't truly comparable to the rest of FCS.

[Outsider1]

How dare you bring rationale into this, sir :D

+100

[clenz]

Duquesne also won a conference Championship, played in the NCAA playoffs, beat the #16 team on the road in the first round (that same team is currently #9). The Dukes went through 2018 regular season without being ranked until the final poll where they finished the season #22. Duquesne returns both the starting QB and an All-American RB to a team that haven't finished lower than 2nd place in the NEC over the past 4 seasons and have made the playoffs twice in the past 4 seasons.

So what happened since the end of last season to drop Duquesne from the poll and keep Princeton?

I know the answer, you know the answer, and everyone on the board knows the answer - NOTHING. The voters are simply more impressed by the name on the jersey and conference membership.How's Duquesne do last year against an MVFC team?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

How's Duquesne do last year against an MVFC team?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

So Princeton and Dartmouth are rewarded in polls for DECLINING the opportunity to participate in the playoffs and AVOIDING a ranked MVFC team?

You can crap all over Duquesne's resume all you want, but you can't do that and on the other hand justify an Ivy team in the polls.

[Thumper 76]

Fine, but even this win is being ignore.

Duquesne is 2-1 in its last 3 games played, including 1-1 vs. Top 10 teams!!!!!

W, 31-10 @ #9 Towson - NCAA First Round
L, 51-6 @ #3 South Dakota State - NCAA Second Round
W, 44-3 vs. Walsh (D2)

So explain why Princeton and Yale are getting votes and they haven't played a game this year or had a playoff win like the Dukes have

I can’t tell you why the Ivy’s are in the poll. They aren’t in my poll. But neither is Duquesne either. Having watched them in person, I didn’t see a top 25 team. I’m not trying to talk smack, I’m telling you what I saw both times in Brookings. SDSU has a tougher time with Missouri St. Duquesne is a fine NEC team and Towson was a great win, and if they put up a good fight against YSU I’ll consider them. Just right now it takes a hell of a lot more to get into my top 25 than beating a D2 team and what happened last year.


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[aceinthehole]

I can’t tell you why the Ivy’s are in the poll. They aren’t in my poll. But neither is Duquesne either. Having watched them in person, I didn’t see a top 25 team. I’m not trying to talk smack, I’m telling you what I saw both times in Brookings. SDSU has a tougher time with Missouri St. Duquesne is a fine NEC team and Towson was a great win, and if they put up a good fight against YSU I’ll consider them. Just right now it takes a hell of a lot more to get into my top 25 than beating a D2 team and what happened last year.

That's fair and honestly that the point I'm trying to make. I don't see how anyone can objectively rank an Ivy in the poll and ignore a team like Duquesne. Ignore them both if you like ... but let's not punish a NEC team for playing a tougher schedule than the Ivy League team.

[clenz]

That's fair and honestly that the point I'm trying to make. I don't see how anyone can objectively rank an Ivy in the poll and ignore a team like Duquesne. Ignore them both if you like ... but let's not punish a NEC team for playing a tougher schedule than the Ivy League team.You ****ing aren't playing a stronger OOC.

Most all your OOC games are non scholarship and sub D1s and then you get busy bagged by MVFC schools.

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[Go Green]

but let's not punish a NEC team for playing a tougher schedule than the Ivy League team.

I won't look it up, but I'm reasonably certain that the Ivy's winning percentage against NEC teams is quite high.

For example:

https://goduquesne.com/news/2005/9/18/Dukes_Fall_To_Quakers_41_14.aspx

[clenz]

FWIW Massey (I'm not a COMPUTERS ARE THE BEST guy like most MVFC fans seem to be, but I think they have value) has Duquesne at 97 for expected full SoS. 97 out of 126. That's with #42 New Hampshire and #13 Youngstown State (both Massey Ranks) on the OOC slate.

The Big South, as a conference, goes 92, 93, 97, 104, 105, 106, 107, 109, 125

Meanwhile the Ivy is at 39, 40, 42, 45, 47, 48, 52, 62

If Duquesne beats YSU, I'll come back and say I'm wrong. Hell, if they play YSU to a less than 2 score game I'll admit I was at least partially wrong.

[aceinthehole]

FWIW Massey (I'm not a COMPUTERS ARE THE BEST guy like most MVFC fans seem to be, but I think they have value) has Duquesne at 97 for expected full SoS. 97 out of 126. That's with #42 New Hampshire and #13 Youngstown State (both Massey Ranks) on the OOC slate.

The Big South, as a conference, goes 92, 93, 97, 104, 105, 106, 107, 109, 125

Meanwhile the Ivy is at 39, 40, 42, 45, 47, 48, 52, 62

If Duquesne beats YSU, I'll come back and say I'm wrong. Hell, if they play YSU to a less than 2 score game I'll admit I was at least partially wrong.

Do you really think the last place Ivy team is #62 in FCS? If so, this is a pointless discussion for you.

[smilo]

Do you really think the last place Ivy team is #62 in FCS? If so, this is a pointless discussion for you.

He said Strength of Schedule forecast The last place team in the Ivy is #94, which sounds pretty accurate to me. Harvard and Dartmouth are clearly a bit overrated for now, but we'll see how it works itself out when they get on the field.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Do you really think the last place Ivy team is #62 in FCS? If so, this is a pointless discussion for you.


......DIGGIN' UH HOLE....LAD......YOUSE HAVEN'T BEEN RIGHT........'BOUT MOS' FACTS IN YER ARGUMENT.......xsmhx.......AWQ!

.....YOUSE CAUGHT LIGHTNIN'....IN UH BOTTLE......WHIFF TOWSON....AWK!

[clenz]

Do you really think the last place Ivy team is #62 in FCS? If so, this is a pointless discussion for you.
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it my dude?

[aceinthehole]

No, my understanding and facts are on point
Do you think an Ivy really has a 63 SOS? The arguments is clear and the bias of voters in favor of the Ivy has been exposed by multiple posters.

[clenz]

No, my understanding and facts are on point
Do you think an Ivy really has a 63 SOS? The arguments is clear and the bias of voters in favor of the Ivy has been exposed by multiple posters.
I, in past years, have literally said I wouldn't vote for an Ivy League team regardless of record.

You're projecting here.

When the NEC starts to beat actually good teams - and stops scheduling a large number of non scholarships and D2s - and actually starts to show they are a top 20 quality team then they will get votes.

Duquense schedule isn't that. I don't care about last year. I care about this year. I don't care they beat Towson, because the good will they may have gotten from that game was instantly gone after being absolutely bent over by SDSU

Also remember that Towson team had lost 3 of it's last 4 going into the playoffs. They started playing the actual good teams on their schedule and lost 3 of 4.

[caribbeanhen]

I can’t tell you why the Ivy’s are in the poll. They aren’t in my poll. But neither is Duquesne either. Having watched them in person, I didn’t see a top 25 team. I’m not trying to talk smack, I’m telling you what I saw both times in Brookings. SDSU has a tougher time with Missouri St. Duquesne is a fine NEC team and Towson was a great win, and if they put up a good fight against YSU I’ll consider them. Just right now it takes a hell of a lot more to get into my top 25 than beating a D2 team and what happened last year.


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Ivies are in the polls because the would beat down about half of the top 25....

[penguinpower]

I, in past years, have literally said I wouldn't vote for an Ivy League team regardless of record.

You're projecting here.

When the NEC starts to beat actually good teams - and stops scheduling a large number of non scholarships and D2s - and actually starts to show they are a top 20 quality team then they will get votes.

Duquense schedule isn't that. I don't care about last year. I care about this year. I don't care they beat Towson, because the good will they may have gotten from that game was instantly gone after being absolutely bent over by SDSU

Also remember that Towson team had lost 3 of it's last 4 going into the playoffs. They started playing the actual good teams on their schedule and lost 3 of 4.


I agree with what you are saying but Duquesne has 16 D1 transfers and they have some talent on the roster. The question is: can they win against a physical team?

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I, in past years, have literally said I wouldn't vote for an Ivy League team regardless of record.

You're projecting here.

When the NEC starts to beat actually good teams - and stops scheduling a large number of non scholarships and D2s - and actually starts to show they are a top 20 quality team then they will get votes.

Duquense schedule isn't that. I don't care about last year. I care about this year. I don't care they beat Towson, because the good will they may have gotten from that game was instantly gone after being absolutely bent over by SDSU

Also remember that Towson team had lost 3 of it's last 4 going into the playoffs. They started playing the actual good teams on their schedule and lost 3 of 4.


I agree with what you are saying but Duquesne has 16 D1 transfers and they have some talent on the roster. The question is: can they win against a physical team?

[clenz]

I agree with what you are saying but Duquesne has 16 D1 transfers and they have some talent on the roster. The question is: can they win against a physical team?

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I agree with what you are saying but Duquesne has 16 D1 transfers and they have some talent on the roster. The question is: can they win against a physical team?
What is so often said as the biggest difference between top level FCS teams when they lose tight games to upper end G5s and P5s. The top end talent is close but the depth simply isn't there.

16 transfers a program does not make. Hell, what is the biggest knock on places like Jacksonville State and the culture that taking in all the transfers has built?

Those 16 players aren't playing every single snap every single game. They aren't accounting for 100% of that teams stats.

I remember UNI had a transfer WR from Southern Cal. 5* kid. More highly recruited and decorated than Reggie Bush out of HS. Was a complete and utter waste of space on the field for UNI outside of 1 important catch in a playoff game. Dude looked like he belonged at D2 Upper Iowa (who was going winless or 2 win at that point) and not UNI - who was #1 to #3 every single poll every single week at that point.

[Paladin1aa]

Agree. What good is a transfer if they make no meaningful contribution ? The word transfer means nothing. However , those transfers who start for their new team and greatly contribute are often the difference makers between a team and a very good team.

All in the context.

[clenz]

Welp

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[clenz]

Through 3 quarters against YSU Duquesne is averaging 3 yards per carry and 2.8 yards per pass attempt




There's your case.

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[GoBlueHens83]

Through 3 quarters against YSU Duquesne is averaging 3 yards per carry and 2.8 yards per pass attempt




There's your case.

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Yeah. Still not going to be in my Top 25.

[semobison]

Yep, begging to be ranked because of their win against Towson LAST YEAR was weak sauce.

[aceinthehole]

Ivies are in the polls because the would beat down about half of the top 25....


How would anyone know? They don't play Top-25 teams.

[aceinthehole]

Yeah. Still not going to be in my Top 25.


Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)

[Prime Power]

Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)

NOT A TOP 25 TEAM!!!! Thanks for making that point.....

[GoBlueHens83]

Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)

Why do you keep making my posts about Delaware when I haven’t mentioned them once? You seem to have a severe inferiority complex that you’re struggling with.

[clenz]

Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)Of any NEC team scores 22 against NDSU it would most definitely be not worthy


YSU is like a 5th or 6th place MVFC team.

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[ysubigred]

Of any NEC team scores 22 against NDSU it would most definitely be not worthy


YSU is like a 5th or 6th place MVFC team.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TapatalkNo 7th the preseason experts said so [emoji867]

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[penguinpower]

Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)


Duquesne would't have scored a single point if they weren't kept in the game by invalid referees.

[Sitting Bull]

Who does Duquesne play this weekend?

Are we still making a case for them? If so, for what? and why?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Who does Duquesne play this weekend?

Are we still making a case for them? If so, for what? and why?
a bit off topic, but nice game for W&M to beat Colgate convicingly like that. Sitting 2-1, been a few rough years. New HC and staff ... must be feeling good in Willliamsburg ??

[Thumper 76]

Duquesne 14, YSU 34

NDSU 47, Delaware 22

Hens are a Top-25 team and any NEC team that lost by that score would be eviscerated on this forum :)

Well that was the #1 team vs a fringe top 25 team. Kinda expected. The Dukes got worked that bad by a fringe top 25 team. Which would mean, no votes for you. Just stop dude this is getting sad.


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[Sitting Bull]

a bit off topic, but nice game for W&M to beat Colgate convicingly like that. Sitting 2-1, been a few rough years. New HC and staff ... must be feeling good in Willliamsburg ??

So far, so good - much of the enthusiasm stems from we have our first new coach (and system) since 1980! The last 3-5 years, we have had trouble scoring, something previous Laycock teams excelled.

Our last FCS playoff year a few years ago we actually matched up with Duquesne in round 1 and were fortunate to keep at least a TD apart and escaped 52-45.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Duquesne can still work their way back into my rankings by winning and doing impressively. A 34-14 road loss to a good MVFC team does not prove the Dukes aren't "top 25 worthy" imo. However, given the Dukes conference they have to so some level of dominance . I'm sure they'll be a game or two that will be close but overall, kick some butt. If the Dukes are 5-1/6-1 in a few weeks I'll give them a look.

[Prime Power]

Yeah, they lost to UNH....not a top 25 team before the season and not a top 25 team now. They win out and win a game in the playoffs, they will be in the 20's on my list. Maybe

[aceinthehole]

Correct, they aren't a T-25 team after losses to YSU and UNH. I would have dropped them from the polls after the loss to YSU. The do have a nice win vs. Dayton, but the loss at UNH is more than enough proof they aren't worthy of being ranked.

The point was the lack of preseason respect for a team that finished last season with a first round playoff win, was #22 in the final 2018 polls, and returned a ton of talent. They should have started ranked and dropped out.

No one is saying Colgate shouldn't have been ranked. They simply didn't perform (now 0-5) as projected and we're dropped - that's how this is supposed to work for all teams.

[KPSUL]

Correct, they aren't a T-25 team after losses to YSU and UNH. I would have dropped them from the polls after the loss to YSU. The do have a nice win vs. Dayton, but the loss at UNH is more than enough proof they aren't worthy of being ranked.

The point was the lack of preseason respect for a team that finished last season with a first round playoff win, was #22 in the final 2018 polls, and returned a ton of talent. They should have started ranked and dropped out.


No one is saying Colgate shouldn't have been ranked. They simply didn't perform (now 0-5) as projected and we're dropped - that's how this is supposed to work for all teams.



Your original point was valid, even if the season has been a disappointment for the Dukes so far this year. I don't believe you'll find any other team in any 1AA or FCS season that won a Conference Champion and then beat a ranked opponent in the first round of the the playoffs by 21 points that does not end up ranked in the following year's pre-season polls.