Valparaiso 2007 Schedule

[hebmskebm]

Sep. 1 St. Francis (IL) - NAIA
Sep. 8 at Trinity International - NAIA
Sep. 15 at Kalamazoo - D3
Sep. 22 at Marian (IN) - NAIA
Sep. 29 at Drake
Oct. 6 San Diego
Oct. 13 Butler
Oct. 20 Dayton
Oct. 27 Morehead State
Nov. 3 at Jacksonville
Nov. 10 at Davidson

http://nwitimes.com/articles/2007/04/29/sports/college_sports/doc44d752a27b3d1f5b862572cb007efee6.txt

thats one lousy sked. the icing on the cake is playing san diego for homecoming.

[Fresno St. Alum]

not pretty. How many schools are left that don't have their schedules out?

[andy7171]

Giving Iona a run for their money!

[DetroitFlyer]

Last year, Valparaiso won 3 games and was ranked dead last, ( 122/122 ), in the GPI for the entire FCS division. Now, explain to me why a program like Valparaiso should go out and schedule four completely unwinnable out of conference games? As it is, Valpo has scheduled three, scholarship, (NAIA), games and one Division III game. At least Valpo has a chance to win some of these games and build some confidence and momentum in the program. Believe me, going 0-11 will not bring in the fans, help recruiting, bring in the donations, or garner the support from the university community. Valpo has a ways to go before they can look at upgrading the OOC schedule again.

And I'll say it again and again! Valpo's 2007 schedule is far better than Georgia State, ETSU, Evansville, and the list goes on and on!

And for the record, former Valpo QB Nick Browder has been playing in the AFL for a number of seasons, ( currently with Dallas ). Valpo is working on improving and this schedule is part of the process.

[andy7171]

I dont understand why you keep listing schools without football programs.
And you don't get better scheduling down. False confidence beating up lesser school only leads to bigger beat downs by more formidable opponents.

[TexasTerror]

Nothing beats a three-game road stint against sub-Div I teams...this is exactly why the NCAA needs to do something about non-scholarship Div I programs...

Sep. 8 at Trinity International - NAIA
Sep. 15 at Kalamazoo - D3
Sep. 22 at Marian (IN) - NAIA

[Sir William]

I dont understand why you keep listing schools without football programs.
And you don't get better scheduling down. False confidence beating up lesser school only leads to bigger beat downs by more formidable opponents.

Let's give Valpo a break. They need the wins. And at their level of play (the PFL), they will have all they can handle from teams in their conference.

Good luck, Valpo. (nonetheless, y'all had better win those NAIA games!)

[andy7171]

Let's give Valpo a break. They need the wins. And at their level of play (the PFL), they will have all they can handle from teams in their conference.

Good luck, Valpo. (nonetheless, y'all had better win those NAIA games!)
I'm not intending to give Valpo a hard time, I wish them all the luck in the world. However, I disagree that scheduling patsies is not the way to go about building a program.

[DetroitFlyer]

Valpo still has a football program. Schools without programs do not have a schedule. Simple enough for you?

http://www.geocities.com/football_graveyard/

[andy7171]

Valpo still has a football program. Schools without programs do not have a schedule. Simple enough for you?

http://www.geocities.com/football_graveyard/
So Towson is better in football than Seton Hall? xrolleyesx

[appfan2008]

asu still doesnt have their schedule out and it is a bummer to not see our name on valpos sched

[SoCon48]

asu still doesnt have their schedule out and it is a bummer to not see our name on valpos sched

Yeah, I was hoping for Alpo, I mean Valpo. They are a good school with a good rep and I hope they have a good year.

[GannonFan]

Last year, Valparaiso won 3 games and was ranked dead last, ( 122/122 ), in the GPI for the entire FCS division. Now, explain to me why a program like Valparaiso should go out and schedule four completely unwinnable out of conference games? As it is, Valpo has scheduled three, scholarship, (NAIA), games and one Division III game. At least Valpo has a chance to win some of these games and build some confidence and momentum in the program. Believe me, going 0-11 will not bring in the fans, help recruiting, bring in the donations, or garner the support from the university community. Valpo has a ways to go before they can look at upgrading the OOC schedule again.

And I'll say it again and again! Valpo's 2007 schedule is far better than Georgia State, ETSU, Evansville, and the list goes on and on!

And for the record, former Valpo QB Nick Browder has been playing in the AFL for a number of seasons, ( currently with Dallas ). Valpo is working on improving and this schedule is part of the process.

DF - you're the one who's constantly beating the drum that the PFL and other non-schollies are full-fledged, equal members of the FCS and should be respected as such. And then when a school in that category comes out and plays all their OOC games against teams well outside of the FCS and certainly far lower in terms of quality than the FCS. Let's review the OOC here:

St Francis (IL) - 2-9 last year
Kalamazoo - 2-7 last year
Trinity - 4-7 last year
Marian - 0-0 - that's right, Marian is a start-up NAIA team who just held their first Spring Practice ever.

That's a bad, bad schedule for a FCS team that belongs to a conference that moans about not being accepted as a full-fledged FCS conference. The reason for that lack of acceptance is schedules like these. No one's asking Valpo to play Montana every week, but geez, play somebody. Heck, playing DII teams would be a step up for this schedule. It just seems disingenious on one hand to be railing against the perceived exclusion by the rest of the FCS, and then defend a schedule like this that is easily the worst schedule in all of the FCS, by a large margin.

[DUPFLFan]

Gannon,

I think Valpo is trying to turn around the culture a bit here. Let them crawl before walking.

Every conference has their teams that aren't very good. Typically those teams try to schedule OOC teams that they have a chance of winning. No different here...

When changing a culture, would you rather have them get their brains beat in before conference play?

[BigApp]

...this is exactly why the NCAA needs to do something about non-scholarship Div I programs...



100% correct, TT. Pee, or get off the pot.

[UNHWildCats]

ASU, NAU and Prarie View are the only teams to not have publicly known completed schedules. There are schools like Northern Colroado and Weber STate who have what we believe to be complete schedules with no official announcements yet. Give me a few and I will upload the updated excel and pdf versions

[UNHWildCats]

OH and Howard

[UNHWildCats]

ok there uploaded.

[GannonFan]

Gannon,

I think Valpo is trying to turn around the culture a bit here. Let them crawl before walking.

Every conference has their teams that aren't very good. Typically those teams try to schedule OOC teams that they have a chance of winning. No different here...

When changing a culture, would you rather have them get their brains beat in before conference play?

My complaint is actually two fold - of course you try to schedule OOC games you can win, but not all of them. UD plays West Chester every year, that's a game that should be a win, but then they play a Navy or a Furman or someone like that. Most teams have that one patsy they play - not many have 4 like Valpo. And if you want to play teams you can beat or at least have a chance against, there are FCS teams that fit the bill. There are bad teams at the bottom of the NEC and then there's the MAAC outside of Dusquene. And PFL backers moan and groan about a conference like the OVC getting an auto-bid every year - if they think the OVC isn't very good there are bottom teams in that conference too that Valpo could play.

And that ties into the other complaint, the seemingly discongruent positions by some PFL backers to cry about not being considered integral with the rest of the FCS and then allow a schedule like this to pass without criticism, saying instead that a bottom dwelling PFL team couldn't be expected to play even the worst in the FCS - which is it then, is the PFL a full fledged FCS member or is it something else?

[DetroitFlyer]

I have never said that ALL non-scholarship teams are equal to all full scholly schools. No two FCSs teams are "equal" to each other. If that were the case, FCS would have 122 champions.... What I have said, and let's be clear, is that year in and year out the BEST non-scholly school can hang with any scholly school and could be very competitive in the playoffs. Valpo was the worst team in all of FCS last year. Why in the world would Valpo travel to Boone in order to lose 72-0, if not something worse? Dayton tied with Valpo for last in the PFL, ( 1-6 ), and we beat Valpo 51-7! #1 versus #122.... Talk about ugly! NOTHING is gained with this approach. It does not make a team better to get absolutely killed in every out of conference game.... If Valpo had 4 Division II teams, people would still complain. That said, I would have preferred to see Valpo play maybe one lower level NEC team and a MAAC team for two OOC games. I am not a fan of playing lower level games, but I understand why Valpo is doing it. Let's hope that Valpo wins 4/4 OOC games and maybe a game or two in the PFL. Build some wins, increase interest and support in the program, recruit better players, improve the facilities, and who know what might happen. As long as Valpo or Saint Peters, or LaSalle, or ( insert school here ), has a team, there is always hope for improvement. Once those teams go away, the odds of them coming back are very, very slim.

[DetroitFlyer]

Valpo's schedule FULLY complies with the current rules in FCS! EVERY team in the PFL fully complies with the current rules for FCS. The PFL is FCS as defined by the NCAA in every way. The only difference defined by the NCAA that I am aware of is that PFL teams cannot be considered "counters" for FBS teams.

Play the worst in FCS? Valpo should play themselves? Sounds like a spring game to me....

[GannonFan]

Play the worst in FCS? Valpo should play themselves? Sounds like a spring game to me....

Or, like I said in my post, they could play the bottom of the barrell in the OVC (Murray St), the NEC (Sacred Heart), or anyone in the MAAC other than Dusquene. Who said they should play Appy St? Let's stick to the argument here. There are teams that are also struggling in FCS in terms of wins and losses, but you don't see them scheduling teams that just came into existence this month. And Valpo's problems extend just past the wins and losses - if they were only worried about that they'd drop Trinity from the schedule, whom the lost to by almost 20 last year. And while it may seem like this only applies to Valpo, having Valpo in the conference and playing OOC games like this does hurt the better teams in the conference, i.e. the San Diego's of the world. Since conference games make up the bulk of a schedule, when your conference in comprised of schools like Valpo that play such poor schedules then it also reflects poorly on everyone else in the conference - there is such a thing as deadweight.

And I don't buy into this "well, at least they are playing so there's still hope" argument. Schools can start up from scatch and play football at a better level than what we're seeing - nova dropped football and came back. Coastal Carolina just started football a few years ago and they made the playoffs. Just hanging onto a team for the sake of having a team isn't commendable.

[Model Citizen]

The PFL is cost containment football. In the league, long distance travel is sometimes necessary. For the other games, forgetabouit.

[FargoBison]

Valpo took on NDSU a few years ago and after watching them play I can see why they are scheduling the way they do. Its not like Valpo is trying to be something they aren't, they are in the PFL for a reason.

[89Hen]

Sep. 8 at Trinity International - NAIA
Sep. 15 at Kalamazoo - D3
Sep. 22 at Marian (IN) - NAIA
Flyer et al... there is NO defending this schedule. It's horrible to simply play this many sub-DII teams but then to travel TO them?!?!?!? xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x There is NO defense for this.

[Model Citizen]

PFL economics often works like this. First take the biggest net paycheck you can find. For Valpo, this has produced games against NDSU, SDSU, and an OVC team. Results were so ugly, the administration swore off playing scholarship programs. NAIAs actually have scholarships, but I'll leave that explanation to someone else.

Normally, the "big" paycheck--$50,000 or so--is used to guarantee home games against lower division schools @ roughly 7 grand per game.

Well, Valpo doesn't have the big paycheck game anymore. Forced to abandon scheduling-by-paycheck, they are left with home-home against the lower division teams.

San Diego escaped this paradigm. Thank God for that.

[DetroitFlyer]

You simply cannot characterize a conference by it's worst team. If you look at USD's, MSU's, Drake's and Dayton's schedule you see teams like Northern Colorado, UC Davis, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Robert Morris, Western Kentucky, Fordham, Saint Francis for OOC games. Add Jacksonville and you can add Bethune-Cookman and Gardner Webb. PFL teams are now playing full scholly schools on a regular basis. Granted, we have not won many yet, but we are scheduling better. There is even a rumor that ASU has offered Davidson a big check to come to Boone and Davidson is seriously considering the offer....

Look at the worst team in you own connference and see if you want to use them as a measuring stick for the rest of your conference.

[GannonFan]

The PFL is cost containment football. In the league, long distance travel is sometimes necessary. For the other games, forgetabouit.

If Valpo is so interested in money and cost containment, then why are they even in the PFL to begin with? With schools in California, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, Ohio, and Indiana, there will always be costs associated with just playing conference games. What does it benefit Valpo to even be in that conference? Why not just go independent and then play the schedule they have, keep the local PFL teams, and just schedule that way? What does PFL membership give them except games that are pretty far away?

[downbythebeach]

If Valpo is so interested in money and cost containment, then why are they even in the PFL to begin with? With schools in California, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, Ohio, and Indiana, there will always be costs associated with just playing conference games. What does it benefit Valpo to even be in that conference? Why not just go independent and then play the schedule they have, keep the local PFL teams, and just schedule that way? What does PFL membership give them except games that are pretty far away?

Good call
The only thing I can think of is the name recognition.....some pretty good schools....but still a crazy conference geographically.

[Model Citizen]

1. Half the schedule must be FCS games to meet NCAA rules. Where else will they get them? Playing Gateways isn't going to happen.

2. They want something to play for. A conference championship is all they have available.

[andy7171]

Look at the worst team in you own connference and see if you want to use them as a measuring stick for the rest of your conference.
William & Mary finished 3-8 last year, last in the A-10 South. And gave Maryland everything they could handle.
I have no problem using them as a measuring stick to the rest of the FCS.

[GannonFan]

Look at the worst team in you own connference and see if you want to use them as a measuring stick for the rest of your conference.

No sweat. URI played a DII team in Merrimack, and then plays an Ivy League team (FCS) and UConn (FBS). This year they play Fordham (FCS), Brown (FCS), and Army (FBS). Looks fine to me.

And let's be real here, we may be talking about Valpo here, but it's not as if Valpo's scheduling of DIII and NAIA teams is exclusive to only them - plenty of other, non-cellar dwelling members of the PFL play schedules that are only slightly better than what Valpo plays. The conference is only as good as its members, and the top teams are going to be judged by the company they keep. A team at the top of the PFL may be fantastic, but if they play schedules not much better than this, and then play conference opponents almost all with schedules like this, that is how they are judged.

[BigApp]

They want something to play for. A conference championship is all they have available.

with a schedule like this, you're correct!

[GannonFan]

1. Half the schedule must be FCS games to meet NCAA rules. Where else will they get them? Playing Gateways isn't going to happen.

2. They want something to play for. A conference championship is all they have available.

So now is Indiana St, in faraway Terre Haute, off the board too??? The OVC has several teams that are within the same distance and timeframe that Valpo is playing OOC, and a lot of them are closer than the conference games they are currently playing. Conference championships are all fine and well, but plenty of schools have played for years as independents - UD, Georgia Southern, YSU, Hofstra, etc. For scheduling reasons and for other sports, they have joined conferences since then. But Valpo doesn't have that issue - they are in conferences for their other sports and they could easily arrange a schedule without being a PFL member.

[89Hen]

No offense to anyone, but here are some other bottom teams...

VMI: Lock Haven, W&M, @JMU, @Lehigh, @Robert Morris, Citadel

Indiana State: @Indiana, Austin Peay, @Southeast Missouri State, EIU

Norfolk State: Virginia State, @Rutgers

Elon: @South Florida, WV Wesleyan, Liberty, Stony Brook

Southern Utah: we know this one is suicidal

I have NEVER seen a I-AA schedule like Valpos.

[Sir William]

The thing that is interesting about this thread is that while it is about Valpo's schedule quality (or lack thereof), there seems to be no Valpo posters. If Valpo fans don't care about their football program, why should the rest of us? Apparently, Valpo isn't interested (for whatever reason) in building a quality FCS program.

With that in mind, and if that's true, then speaking for myself (and I would imagine the vast majority of FCS nation)......."Who gives a rip about Valpo's schedule?!?!?!?"

xcoolx

[Model Citizen]

with a schedule like this, you're correct!

San Diego, 10-0 on selection day, with a win over Yale, didn't get a playoff bid. So I hope you're not talking about the playoffs.

Valpo has absolutely no incentive to schedule up.

[GannonFan]

San Diego, 10-0 on selection day, with a win over Yale, didn't get a playoff bid. So I hope you're not talking about the playoffs.

Valpo has absolutely no incentive to schedule up.

Gee, imagine if they played a conference schedule that wasn't full of teams like Valpo that schedule the way Valpo does? Like I said, you're judged, in part, by the company you keep - scheduling like Valpo does, and a good part of the PFL does, hurt San Diego almost as much as their inablity to play all 11 games before the playoffs and their own dipping out of DI to play 2 OOC games. xpeacex

[danefan]

PFL teams should be more angry about this than anyone else. Schedules like this are the reason teams like San Diego have no shot at an at large. It absolutely kills SOS #'s. If I was San Diego or even Dayton I would be all over Valpo for this. Why not pass conference requirements for scheduling. I'm not sure if its common place in FCS football, but I know in basketball it is.

America East Basketball Policy Manual
available at http://admin.xosn.com//pdf6/51062.pdf, p. 6:


Non-Conference Schedule: America East schools must adhere to the following standards beginning with the 2007-08 season:
a. A minimum of three games annually vs. teams whose two-year average RPI ranked 1-100
b. A maximum of five games (including one non-Division I opponent) annually vs. teams whose twoyear
average RPI ranked 250+
c. Participation in the BracketBusters event shall be exempt from scheduling standards (men)

Calculation for the purpose of meeting the scheduling standards shall be derived by using the potential opponent’s ranked average of the two most previous years’ final RPI at the time the contract is signed.

[89Hen]

San Diego, 10-0 on selection day
8-0

[BigApp]

San Diego, 10-0 on selection day, with a win over Yale, didn't get a playoff bid. So I hope you're not talking about the playoffs.

Valpo has absolutely no incentive to schedule up.

even with that win over mighty Yale, USD had one of the worst schedules in FCS. Dixie State and Azusa Pacific not withstanding xrolleyesx

[Model Citizen]

even with that win over mighty Yale, USD had one of the worst schedules in FCS.

It's funny how so many of you want the Ivy League champion in the playoffs, but when a team you don't like beats the Ivy co-champ 43-17, out comes the sarcasm.

[BigApp]

yep. it's the Old Guard's fault.

[downbythebeach]

It's funny how so many of you want the Ivy League champion in the playoffs, but when a team you don't like beats the Ivy co-champ 43-17, out comes the sarcasm.

^theres the sarcasm
Actually a good callxthumbsupx

[andy7171]

It's funny how so many of you want the Ivy League champion in the playoffs, but when a team you don't respect beats the Ivy co-champ 43-17, out comes the sarcasm.
There I fixed it for you.

[DetroitFlyer]

http://www.post-trib.com/sports/365007,valpo.article

As I have mentioned before, IF you still have a team, you have a chance to improve. Doubt me? Ask Dan Reeves at Georgia State how their recruiting and spring practice were for football.

Valpo has a second year coach and is working hard to improve their program. Hats off to Valpo, keep up the good work!!

[andy7171]

http://www.post-trib.com/sports/365007,valpo.article

As I have mentioned before, IF you still have a team, you have a chance to improve. Doubt me? Ask Dan Reeves at Georgia State how their recruiting and spring practice were for football.

Valpo has a second year coach and is working hard to improve their program. Hats off to Valpo, keep up the good work!!
xeyebrowx
Good work? Doing what? Acting like a PFL anchor to its D.III roots? It was said before, I'll repeat it. San Diego and Dayton are hurt by this scheduling the most.

[OldFootballGuy]

http://www.post-trib.com/sports/365007,valpo.article

As I have mentioned before, IF you still have a team, you have a chance to improve. Doubt me? Ask Dan Reeves at Georgia State how their recruiting and spring practice were for football.

Valpo has a second year coach and is working hard to improve their program. Hats off to Valpo, keep up the good work!!

If you're going to defend Valpo for this schedule then you can't complain when an undefeated league champion like San Diego gets no playoff consideration. As was said earlier, Valpo's schedule hurts San Diego and Dayton much more than it hurts Valpo.

[DetroitFlyer]

I will complain when a FULLY COMPLIANT, FOR 13 GOING ON 14 SEASONS, FCS conference champion is kept out of the playoffs with an 8-0 record, a convincing win at the Ivy League co-champion, and a GPI of 13 if I remember correctly! Valpo has nothing to do with USD not making the playoffs. Follow the Old Guard and the MONEY and you will understand why USD had to go and defeat the NEC Champion.xnonono2x

[89Hen]

and a GPI of 13 if I remember correctly!
xboringx Portland State and UNI were both higher and not selected. Oh, I guess they're not part of the Old Guard yet, my bad. xrolleyesx xcoolx

[andy7171]

Valpo, Butler and Morehead State have just as much to do with San Diego not making the playoffs as Azuza Pacific and Dixie State.

[DUPFLFan]

If Valpo is so interested in money and cost containment, then why are they even in the PFL to begin with? With schools in California, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, Ohio, and Indiana, there will always be costs associated with just playing conference games.

True. But many of their games are against Drake, Dayton, and Butler the longest trip being 5 hours. Plane trips in the PFL are usually staggered and as DF has said, one scholarship at most of these schools would equal a plane trip to San Diego.

[DUPFLFan]

Good call
The only thing I can think of is the name recognition.....some pretty good schools....but still a crazy conference geographically.

Not much we can do. Few schools play non-scholly football.

[DUPFLFan]

with a schedule like this, you're correct!

Does it really matter?

[DUPFLFan]

It's funny how so many of you want the Ivy League champion in the playoffs, but when a team you don't like beats the Ivy co-champ 43-17, out comes the sarcasm.xnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxnodxxn odxxnodxxnodxxnodx

[GannonFan]

True. But many of their games are against Drake, Dayton, and Butler the longest trip being 5 hours. Plane trips in the PFL are usually staggered and as DF has said, one scholarship at most of these schools would equal a plane trip to San Diego.

But you can still play Drake and Dayton and Butler if Valpo wasn't in the PFL, and of course the longer road trips are staggered, but that's at least 2 real long road trips per year that Valpo, if they were serious about containing costs, wouldn't have to do if they weren't part of the PFL. Like I said, teams join conferences mainly to make scheduling easier and to have a spot to play their other sports - the PFL doesn't really do that at all for Valpo - they could schedule even more bad, local teams and save more money if they weren't forced to play PFL conference games and they already have homes for their other sports. The PFL doesn't appear to do anything of worth for Valpo and having Valpo in the PFL just hurts the SOS of the other teams in the conference (especially when Valpo beats some of them). Just an odd construction of a conference.

[GannonFan]

It's funny how so many of you want the Ivy League champion in the playoffs, but when a team you don't like beats the Ivy co-champ 43-17, out comes the sarcasm.

You're right, if the college football season was only 1 game long, USD would've been a great candidate to make the playoffs with that great win against Yale. However, they then had to play the rest of their schedule - well, not the rest of it, they of course scheduled some of the schedule to happen after the playoffs started, and that part of the schedule actually included the best team they'd play all season, who of course beat them - and the massive drag of a horrible conference filled with teams scheduling like Valpo does, along with the questionable scheduling of two non-FCS level OOC teams themselves, ultimately doomed USD to be on the outside looking in.

But don't pay any mind to all that evidence and factual-based analysis, let's instead blame it on a message board and the desire of some group known as the "Old Guard" to hoard the financial "bonanza" that is the FCS playoffs! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[DetroitFlyer]

http://www.pioneer-football.org/stats/records/Annual_PFL_Standings.pdf

In 2000, Valpo was the PFL co-champion with Dayton and Drake. In 2003, Valpo was co-champion with San Diego of the PFL North. Valpo then went on to defeat PFL South Champion MSU to win the outright PFL title! Valpo has been competitive in the past, and based on what I am hearing, they will be competitive again in the future!

And I know you will all find it very hard to believe that I made a mistake, but in researching the Valpo information, I noticed that in 1998, 1999, and 2000 the PFL had only five members, ( after Evansville folded ). As such, we have not been eligible for an automatic bid for our champion for the league's entire history as I have claimed in the past. So to be accurate, we would have been eligible in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. ( 11/14 years ).

[OldFootballGuy]

I will complain when a FULLY COMPLIANT, FOR 13 GOING ON 14 SEASONS, FCS conference champion is kept out of the playoffs with an 8-0 record, a convincing win at the Ivy League co-champion, and a GPI of 13 if I remember correctly! Valpo has nothing to do with USD not making the playoffs. Follow the Old Guard and the MONEY and you will understand why USD had to go and defeat the NEC Champion.xnonono2x

Bull ****e! Whether you want to admit it or not, strength of schedule matters. Opponents of your opponents affect that SOS. So, not only did San Diego load up on two cupcakes, but they play in a league that does nothing to discourage its members from playing similarly weak schedules. That, rather than some cockamamie conspiracy theory, is the reason why San Diego had to go play the NEC champion. When they deserve to be considered, they will be considered.

[89Hen]

So to be accurate, we would have been eligible in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. ( 11/14 years ).
How many times has the PFL applied for an auto?

[Mountaineer#96]

Another possible App opponet off the clock..........xnonono2x

[BigApp]

I will complain when a FULLY COMPLIANT, FOR 13 GOING ON 14 SEASONS, FCS conference champion is kept out of the playoffs with an 8-0 record, a convincing win at the Ivy League co-champion, and a GPI of 13 if I remember correctly! Valpo has nothing to do with USD not making the playoffs. Follow the Old Guard and the MONEY and you will understand why USD had to go and defeat the NEC Champion.xnonono2x

Lets say I agree with you. Would you want every other FCS team to schedule this many D3's or lower like this?

If you can convince me that scheduling like this is BEST for all teams at this level, that it gives a true example of the strength of a team and it's conference, that playing ROAD GAMES at NAIA teams is a barometer of a teams' playoff worthiness, then I'll agree with you.

Until then...

[DUPFLFan]

The PFL doesn't appear to do anything of worth for Valpo and having Valpo in the PFL just hurts the SOS of the other teams in the conference (especially when Valpo beats some of them). Just an odd construction of a conference.

You can say that about every bad team in a conference... Does Indiana State hurt the Gateway? Yep.

A stronger Valpo (and Butler) makes a better PFL. The new coaches at both are trying to get better. To change the losing culture you have to change the mentality.

[andy7171]

You can say that about every bad team in a conference... Does Indiana State hurt the Gateway? Yep.

A stronger Valpo (and Butler) makes a better PFL. The new coaches at both are trying to get better. To change the losing culture you have to change the mentality.
In my years a Towson, I was 2-9, 2-8, 1-10, 5-5, 8-2. In that order. We didn't get out of a losing culture by scheduling down. We got out by staying together and playing like men.

[GannonFan]

You can say that about every bad team in a conference... Does Indiana State hurt the Gateway? Yep.

A stronger Valpo (and Butler) makes a better PFL. The new coaches at both are trying to get better. To change the losing culture you have to change the mentality.

You're missing the point. Yes, Indiana St being a bad team does hurt the Gateway. However, Indiana St. plays a tough OOC schedule that helps to mitigate the drag they would otherwise put on the Gateway had they been bad and had a bad schedule. Last year Indiana St. played Purdue (FBS), E. Illinois (FCS), Murray St. (FCS), and N. Illinois (FBS) as their OOC opponents. Tell me you can't see the difference in that schedule with Valpo's schedule. And the problem with the PFL is that it's not just Valpo - DIII and NAIA teams litter almost every PFL team's schedules, and often it's more than one on each schedule. If the Gateway was full of Indiana St's it would be a problem, but they aren't. The PFL is, however, full of too many Valpo's, and that is a problem (well, from inclusion in playoffs at least).

[Model Citizen]

Not a problem. If our top team lost to a member of the NEC, that would be a problem.

[faxjusfax]

Not a problem. If our top team lost to a member of the NEC, that would be a problem.

Beware! That time may soon be upon you!!!

[downbythebeach]

You're missing the point. Yes, Indiana St being a bad team does hurt the Gateway. However, Indiana St. plays a tough OOC schedule that helps to mitigate the drag they would otherwise put on the Gateway had they been bad and had a bad schedule. Last year Indiana St. played Purdue (FBS), E. Illinois (FCS), Murray St. (FCS), and N. Illinois (FBS) as their OOC opponents. Tell me you can't see the difference in that schedule with Valpo's schedule. And the problem with the PFL is that it's not just Valpo - DIII and NAIA teams litter almost every PFL team's schedules, and often it's more than one on each schedule. If the Gateway was full of Indiana St's it would be a problem, but they aren't. The PFL is, however, full of too many Valpo's, and that is a problem (well, from inclusion in playoffs at least).

I have a problem with this....its seems in FCS a bad lose to a FBS team is worth more than a win over a lower division team. Why should a team like Indiana St. try to hang with Big Ten teams when just two years ago they were shalacked by NAIA St. Francis Indiana. Valpo could supposedly schedule Notre Dame, Indiana, and Northwestern....they would get some cred, but they would get killed.

[GannonFan]

I have a problem with this....its seems in FCS a bad lose to a FBS team is worth more than a win over a lower division team. Why should a team like Indiana St. try to hang with Big Ten teams when just two years ago they were shalacked by NAIA St. Francis Indiana. Valpo could supposedly schedule Notre Dame, Indiana, and Northwestern....they would get some cred, but they would get killed.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that sometimes teams can hide behind poor performances by playing an FBS team. I'd rather have everyone play games against FCS opponents, or at least lower level FBS teams. When you start playing top 25 FBS teams you just aren't going to win. Playing a mainly FCS schedule at least allows for the best cross-analysis of how teams match up against one another. Playing so many games out of the division doesn't allow for that - and that could be playing too many teams from FBS or too many teams from DII and lower.

[89Hen]

I have a problem with this....its seems in FCS a bad lose to a FBS team is worth more than a win over a lower division team.
I disagree. Neither is worth a hill of beans to the I-AA landscape, HOWEVER a I-A game can mean an awful lot to the athletic dept. at a school. That said, I agree with GF, that these games shouldn't occupy the entire schedule. IMO a team should have no more than ONE I-A game and no more than ONE sub-DI game per year.

[DUPFLFan]

Bottom line guys, it is their choice. What, really, can anyone do about it.

[89Hen]

Bottom line guys, it is their choice. What, really, can anyone do about it.
Bitch about it on a message board. :p

[GannonFan]

Bottom line guys, it is their choice. What, really, can anyone do about it.

Well, obviously we can't do anything about it. However, conferences have frequently established criteria for OOC scheduling so that it is done in the best interest of the conference. If the PFL cared enough about the impact of schedules like this they would collectively do something about it. However, as bad as Valpo's schedule is, it's not terribly out of place in the PFL so I don't think any action like that is likely in the near future.

[DetroitFlyer]

Look at the leadership in the PFL. Last season, I believe it was stated that if the PFL desired a playoff bid, ( as USD clearly did ), the leadership would have to resign as she was 100% committed to obtaining as many bids as possible for her real job, ( Gateway Conference ). Does that sound like someone that is going to lead a conference to establish minimum scheduling standards? At least the NEC has a leader that is working to impove the lot of his conference. The PFL is not so fortunate.

[GannonFan]

Look at the leadership in the PFL. Last season, I believe it was stated that if the PFL desired a playoff bid, ( as USD clearly did ), the leadership would have to resign as she was 100% committed to obtaining as many bids as possible for her real job, ( Gateway Conference ). Does that sound like someone that is going to lead a conference to establish minimum scheduling standards? At least the NEC has a leader that is working to impove the lot of his conference. The PFL is not so fortunate.

Again, though, who does the commissioner work for? She works for, and at the leisure, of the PFL member school Presidents. A commissioner isn't an autonomous person, she takes her walking orders from the PFL members themselves. If the Presidents of the PFL wanted a playoff bid then their commissioner would be pushing for it. It's not outside forces keeping the PFL where it is, it's themselves.