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View Full Version : Change in Counting attendance NCAA Div IA



Gamecocks99
August 5th, 2005, 12:03 AM
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from a boise news site..not that any of the PAC10 schools have a problem with this


Tuesday, August 2, 2005.



The WAC has certainly not been without its attendance-challenged schools, but the NCAA has left just enough wiggle room to make it clear-sailing for the foreseeable future. The scary line of demarcation, of course, was the requirement that an average of 15,000 actual bodies be in the seats every game at Division I-A games. That caused anxiety attacks in places like San Jose and Moscow, and—shockingly last year—Reno. But the NCAA Board of Directors relaxed the rule, though. Now it’s 15,000 tickets sold per game, which means schools can (for example) sell blocks of tickets to corporations and not worry whether any of them are used. It’s supposed to be a 15,000 average every year. But if a team misses it, that’s just probation, buying another season to get over the hump again.


Of course, each of the aforementioned institutions will tell you things were looking up no matter what the NCAA did, counting on big boosts at the turnstiles—for various reasons. San Jose State, who was last in the nation in attendance last year at 6,479 per game, has Dick Tomey in charge now. The buzz he’s produced, and the subsequent wins expected, should have a dramatic effect at the gate. Idaho has long contended that its fans would respond in a big way to a home in the WAC, and the Vandals get a jump start this season with Kibbie Dome dates against Hawaii and Fresno State.


Then there’s Nevada, which is one of the few schools in the country courageous enough to announce both paid attendance and actual turnstile count last year. The Wolf Pack averaged 17,706 fans a game, but the real number in the stands was less than two-thirds of that—easily in what had been the NCAA danger zone. Who can forget Nevada’s snowbound season finale against Boise State, when the Pack acknowledged that the paid count of 21,799 included only about 10,000 real people (6,000 of which had traveled from Boise). There should be a big turnaround in attendance in Reno, where the first two weeks see Washington State and UNLV coming to Mackay Stadium
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Lehigh Football Nation
August 5th, 2005, 12:37 AM
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Of course, each of the aforementioned institutions will tell you things were looking up no matter what the NCAA did, counting on big boosts at the turnstiles—for various reasons. San Jose State, who was last in the nation in attendance last year at 6,479 per game, has Dick Tomey in charge now. The buzz he’s produced, and the subsequent wins expected, should have a dramatic effect at the gate. Idaho has long contended that its fans would respond in a big way to a home in the WAC, and the Vandals get a jump start this season with Kibbie Dome dates against Hawaii and Fresno State.

Then there’s Nevada, which is one of the few schools in the country courageous enough to announce both paid attendance and actual turnstile count last year. ... There should be a big turnaround in attendance in Reno, where the first two weeks see Washington State and UNLV coming to Mackay Stadium

Oh yeah, that fabled "buzz" around San Jose St., Idaho, and Nevada football programs. Oh, wait, they're now members of the WAC? Why, that makes *all* the difference! Fans will now flock to their games! :rolleyes:

There are lots of idiotic arguments here - Fresno St. giving an influx of tourism to Moscow, ID, that fabled Washington State program coming to Nevada's rescue - but my personal favorite is that big Idaho attendance boost from... Hawaii coming to town. Let's say I'm a fan of the Rainbows - let me get this straight - I'm leaving Hawaii to travel to Idaho for a road game? Hmmm.

Wasn't all the "buzz" about San Jose St. involving if they were going to be able to field a team? Oh yeah - THAT'LL boost up attendance. The Spartan Deathwatch.

TxSt02
August 5th, 2005, 12:43 AM
Oh yeah, that fabled "buzz" around San Jose St., Idaho, and Nevada football programs. Oh, wait, they're now members of the WAC? Why, that makes *all* the difference! Fans will now flock to their games! :rolleyes:

There are lots of idiotic arguments here - Fresno St. giving an influx of tourism to Moscow, ID, that fabled Washington State program coming to Nevada's rescue - but my personal favorite is that big Idaho attendance boost from... Hawaii coming to town. Let's say I'm a fan of the Rainbows - let me get this straight - I'm leaving Hawaii to travel to Idaho for a road game? Hmmm.

Wasn't all the "buzz" about San Jose St. involving if they were going to be able to field a team? Oh yeah - THAT'LL boost up attendance. The Spartan Deathwatch.

I think the point was that LOCAL people will be more excited about a Fresno State coming to town rather than a ULL or a Arkansas State...

Mr. C
August 5th, 2005, 01:07 AM
As an alumnus of Fresno State, I can tell you that the Red Wave will travel just about anywhere to see their beloved Bulldogs play, whether you are talking about football, basketball or baseball. Kind of like Montana fans on a larger scale. So Moscow (Idaho, not Russia, though the Red Wave would probably enjoy a trip there too) will probably see a nice influx of visiting fans for that game. We have been well known to draw more fans to some road games than the home team. San Jose State (our longtime arch-rivals) used to require you to show a driver's license ) to make sure you were not from Fresno when you would drive up there to buy tickets in advance (how ludicrous was that). I have to snicker about enthusiasm in San Jose over football. They haven't had much to cheer about since Jack Elway and Claude Gilbert were coaching there.

Lehigh Football Nation
August 5th, 2005, 01:17 AM
Sat, Sep 17 at Oregon 7:00 pm --
Sat, Oct 8 at New Mexico State 8:00 pm --
Sat, Oct 22 at Idaho TBA --
Sat, Oct 29 at Hawaii 11:59 pm --
Sat, Nov 19 at (1) USC TBA --
Sat, Nov 26 at Nevada 4:05 pm --

Let's just say that as Fresno St. road games go, Idaho is NOT in my Top 3 here...

Although I'm sure there are very passionate Fresno St. fans (and WSU fans, and Idaho fans, etc.), I do think that if you're counting on Fresno or WSU to tip the balance sheet in the atendance department to above 20,000 or more, that's pretty wishful thinking.

Mr. C
August 5th, 2005, 01:54 AM
Sat, Sep 17 at Oregon 7:00 pm --
Sat, Oct 8 at New Mexico State 8:00 pm --
Sat, Oct 22 at Idaho TBA --
Sat, Oct 29 at Hawaii 11:59 pm --
Sat, Nov 19 at (1) USC TBA --
Sat, Nov 26 at Nevada 4:05 pm --

Let's just say that as Fresno St. road games go, Idaho is NOT in my Top 3 here...

Although I'm sure there are very passionate Fresno St. fans (and WSU fans, and Idaho fans, etc.), I do think that if you're counting on Fresno or WSU to tip the balance sheet in the atendance department to above 20,000 or more, that's pretty wishful thinking.
A game with Fresno State in Idaho might add an extra thousand or so fans to the Vandals' total, which isn't anything to sneeze at (though I'd rather be at that USC game myself on Nov. 19 — instead of covering App State at Elon).

bluehenbillk
August 5th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Basically, in dumb-downed English, the NCAA is following the model that Temple has followed for the past 20 years.

Ronbo
August 5th, 2005, 09:24 AM
Well I won't critisize schools that would rank in the top 20 in 1AA in attendance. At 13,500 fans a game Nevada would rank at #14 with Appy St. and Jackson St. At 16,000 Idaho would rank #6 in I-AA. Does that mean they should be in I-AA?

How about if I-AA requires attendance of 10,000 per game? Does that mean N. Iowa (9800), Northwestern St. (9700), Southern Illinois (9700), Western Carolina (9600), and Missouri State (9500) should all be forced to Division II? Or how about Maine (6746), Eastern Washington (6633), or Villanova (6471)? Those look like Division II schools to me.

A division that averages about 6-7000 a game as a whole shouldn't be critisizing schools that average 14-17,000 and have chosen to play at the highest level of play.

Well these schools will never be forced down now as the new rules allow big Corporations to buy large blocks of season tickets and give them away as a tax writeoff.

grizbeer
August 5th, 2005, 09:47 AM
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from a boise news site..not that any of the PAC10 schools have a problem with this

I still don't get the Pac 10 reference?

and the point is the local fans will be excited about teams like WSU, Fresno State, and Hawaii coming instead of regional UL wherever. As far as SJS, well, that's probably a lost cause.

Go...gate
August 5th, 2005, 10:45 AM
If they water this thing down any further, pretty soon we will all be Division 1, like it was in the old days.

SoCon48
August 5th, 2005, 10:46 AM
Well I won't critisize schools that would rank in the top 20 in 1AA in attendance. At 13,500 fans a game Nevada would rank at #14 with Appy St. and Jackson St. At 16,000 Idaho would rank #6 in I-AA. Does that mean they should be in I-AA?

How about if I-AA requires attendance of 10,000 per game? Does that mean N. Iowa (9800), Northwestern St. (9700), Southern Illinois (9700), Western Carolina (9600), and Missouri State (9500) should all be forced to Division II? Or how about Maine (6746), Eastern Washington (6633), or Villanova (6471)? Those look like Division II schools to me.

A division that averages about 6-7000 a game as a whole shouldn't be critisizing schools that average 14-17,000 and have chosen to play at the highest level of play.

Well these schools will never be forced down now as the new rules allow big Corporations to buy large blocks of season tickets and give them away as a tax writeoff.
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Hmm. I was halfway expecting this thread to morph into the ones which contend: The I-A's lie about their attendance by exaggerating their numbers while the I-AA's lie about their play-off attendance numbers to the down side. :spank: :spank: :spank:

And Ronbo, if the I-AA Division required a minimum of 10K attendance, there would have ONLY been 27 schools left in I-AA after 2004. REAL SCARY!!:eek: :eek:
Some entire conferences would be wiped out!
Montana's Big Sky would have only TWO teams. :mad:

GannonFan
August 5th, 2005, 10:53 AM
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Hmm. I was halfway expecting this thread to morph into the ones which contend: The I-A's lie about their attendance by exaggerating their numbers while the I-AA's lie about their play-off attendance numbers to the down side. :spank: :spank: :spank:


We were just waiting for you to bring that up again. :deadhorse

SoCon48
August 5th, 2005, 10:58 AM
We were just waiting for you to bring that up again. :deadhorse

Nope. Won't do it..........yet :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

henfan
August 5th, 2005, 11:52 AM
Obviously, the slobs in I-A were successful at watering down attendance criteria to the extent that it means nothing. Any school in jeapordy of not meeting those ridiculously low standards can simply throw money at the problem. Reduce tickets to a $1 per so that wealthy boosters can buy thousands of 'em, most of which will go unused. What a joke.

SoCon48
August 5th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Obviously, the slobs in I-A were successful at watering down attendance criteria to the extent that it means nothing. Any school in jeapordy of not meeting those ridiculously low standards can simply throw money at the problem. Reduce tickets to a $1 per so that wealthy boosters can buy thousands of 'em, most of which will go unused. What a joke.

Here I go!!!

Tickets in relation to the NCAA is ludicrous. If they don't have the sense and the balls to count tickets and/or $ at I-AA play-off games, they have no business telling the I-A schools how many fans they have to have at games.

And now the chumps are dissing Indian mascots. Why the hell don't they just leave it up to the Indians themselves to decide. Like ask the Seminole tribe if they are offended by the use of the Seminole name in Florida.

The NCAA must be infested with guys like Coach on cheers (got rest his soul).

superbrett2000
August 5th, 2005, 04:02 PM
they have no business telling the I-A schools how many fans they have to have at games.


I'll agree here. I could see the requirement being more of an aesthetic thing for the TV games. The premier football division doesnt look quite so premier if there are lots of stadiums packing only 10k people per game.

Gamecocks99
August 5th, 2005, 11:29 PM
On Troy University's web site they are pushing to sale tickets to the large corps as discribed in this post.