FCS Heavyweights laugher

[wapiti]

This is a laugher!!!
https://sports.yahoo.com/ndsu-san-diego-n-c-t-seek-extend-171717127--ncaaf.html

Putting San Diego and NCAT in with NDSU as a heavyweight is ridiculous.

SD and NCAT may be a heavyweight in their conference, but not in FCS. I would not have those two in my top 25, while NDSU may be number 1.
Neither SD or NCAT will even get a sniff at the NC.

I noticed an author is not listed, just the AP.

[katss07]

If they mean conference heavyweight they would be correct for sure. But I can’t tell if they mean conference heavyweight or FCS heavyweight. If they do mean the latter, they’re probably just misinformed. Regardless doubt someone with much FCS knowledge wrote this up.

[lionsrking2]

Does it really matter?

[Laker]

Does it really matter?

Only if you are on Nutrisystem.

[Reign of Terrier]

I agree, but guys, we have to acknowledge NDSU's success is a severe outlier. Comparing them to anybody just poisons any comparison. They are a group unto themselves.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I agree, but guys, we have to acknowledge NDSU's success is a severe outlier. Comparing them to anybody just poisons any comparison. They are a group unto themselves.



NDSU is no "outlier". Last time I checked, NDSU has 63 schollies like most other schools in the division.

NDSU just develops talent better than anyone else.

[SonuvaHenx2]

The real question here - Yahoo is still a thing? xrotatehx

[DEX]

Well I guess it's the silly season around here? Anyways, call us whatever you like. We'll just continue to do what we do.

[Schism55]

Only if you are on Nutrisystem.
Do you even lift bro?
:D

[Redbird 4th & short]

obviously written by some yahoo

xawesomex

[Reign of Terrier]

NDSU is no "outlier". Last time I checked, NDSU has 63 schollies like most other schools in the division.

NDSU just develops talent better than anyone else.

No team in the subdivision has won 7 FCS championships, let alone 7 in 8 years or however many it is at this point. That's an outlier. Alabama has just as many scholarships as the FBS, but they are an outlier in terms of how much success they've had. The same can be said about Clemson, if not on a national level, then at the ACC level. Anyone grouping NDSU with any other team in this subdivision is dividing by 0. It just can't be done.

[Redbird 4th & short]

NDSU is no "outlier". Last time I checked, NDSU has 63 schollies like most other schools in the division.

NDSU just develops talent better than anyone else.
Developing talent is critical .. but IMO, it has more to do with better overall system (recruiting"right" talent and developing the talent for their offensive/defensive system) than the actual talent within their system .. it just all works because of the entire system. It's easy to get buy in from the "talent", when you win Nattys. I might also add, it would never work at P5 level ... that requires serious talent and players that can play in space.

I would also argue that ISUr has as much talent, maybe more, as NDSU since Spack got his recruiting all in place. We just don't have your system locked and loaded ... our problem is consistency. I counted once about a year ago, you had about as many NFL players as Nattys .... ISUr had similar amount of NFL players as NDSU ... and no Natty's. Our 2014 team probably had more talent and we still lost .. granted a very close game .. reminder, we had 3 guys in NFL from that 2014 offense ... none named Roberson or Coprich ... they are WR Meredith, TE Oshaugnessy, OL Leidtke. And OL Barton would have gotten a serious shot if not for injury that took him out of offseason prep for pro days.

If it were the talent, you should have more guys in NFL after winning 7 Nattys in 9 years with the other 2 years making elite 8 and final 4. That isn't the only barometer for talent, but it is somewhat telling.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Developing talent is critical .. but IMO, it has more to do with better overall system (recruiting"right" talent and developing the talent for their offensive/defensive system) than the actual talent within their system .. it just all works because of the entire system. It's easy to get buy in from the "talent", when you win Nattys. I might also add, it would never work at P5 level ... that requires serious talent and players that can play in space.

I would also argue that ISUr has as much talent, maybe more, as NDSU since Spack got his recruiting all in place. We just don't have your system locked and loaded ... our problem is consistency. I counted once about a year ago, you had about as many NFL players as Nattys .... ISUr had similar amount of NFL players as NDSU ... and no Natty's. Our 2014 team probably had more talent and we still lost .. granted a very close game .. reminder, we had 3 guys in NFL from that 2014 offense ... none named Roberson or Coprich ... they are WR Meredith, TE Oshaugnessy, OL Leidtke. And OL Barton would have gotten a serious shot if not for injury that took him out of offseason prep for pro days.

If it were the talent, you should have more guys in NFL after winning 7 Nattys in 9 years with the other 2 years making elite 8 and final 4. That isn't the only barometer for talent, but it is somewhat telling.



"Having our system all in place"....is just an excuse. Every team has a "system".

You can have talent and not have guys in the NFL. Emmanuel just hung up his cleats and he could have still played. NDSU has had many guys in camps that eventually didn't make teams.

For me, NDSU is successful the last decade because they have developed both of their lines into very good units. There are other factors obviously but it all starts in the trenches and the Bison have been very good on both sides.

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No team in the subdivision has won 7 FCS championships, let alone 7 in 8 years or however many it is at this point. That's an outlier. Alabama has just as many scholarships as the FBS, but they are an outlier in terms of how much success they've had. The same can be said about Clemson, if not on a national level, then at the ACC level. Anyone grouping NDSU with any other team in this subdivision is dividing by 0. It just can't be done.


Agee to disagree.

7 out of 8?

There is always a "first" for everything....

[Model Citizen]

A heavyweight from Penuriustan is still a heavyweight. Gosh, y'all are insecure.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

A heavyweight from Penuriustan is still a heavyweight. Gosh, y'all are insecure.


xrolleyesx

Who is insecure?

Saying NDSU has some "special system" or is an "outlier" is nonsense in my book.

The only difference between the Bison and most teams in the FCS is they have had very good coaching and they stick to their philosophy of how they want to play.

Pretty easy. There is no magical formula.....xlolxxcoffeex

[Redbird 4th & short]

"Having our system all in place"....is just an excuse. Every team has a "system".

You can have talent and not have guys in the NFL. Emmanuel just hung up his cleats and he could have still played. NDSU has had many guys in camps that eventually didn't make teams.

For me, NDSU is successful the last decade because they have developed both of their lines into very good units. There are other factors obviously but it all starts in the trenches and the Bison have been very good on both sides.

- - - Updated - - -




Agee to disagree.

7 out of 8?

There is always a "first" for everything....
Excuse ?? it is an opinion and an acknowledgement, not an excuse. Either way, it is a compliment. Of course, everyone has a system .. my point is, some work much better than others, and even more to point, some are executed much better and more consistently than others.

[Reign of Terrier]

I never said it was a magical formula. If has nothing to do with how they got where they are, it's just a fact of where they are.

If we're going to judge teams by the outcomes they create, no reasonable person would compare NDSU to anyone else in the subdivision because their outcomes are an outlier. When one describes any outlier in statistics, it means that (to quote Wolfram Alpha) an observation that lies outside the overall pattern of distribution, meaning an outlier data point doesn't by definition fit the model.

30905
So, for the little dot that's no where near the trend line in the above picture, there is no value judgment or special explanation or magic formula necessary for us to say that it's an outlier. It's an outlier because it's different.

Now, in the case of NDSU and being a winning team at the FCS level, the graph looks more like this:
30906
We can't really make any judgment or detect accurate patterns about the big mass of humanity and "what is success" or a heavy weight at the FCS level if we fixate on the outlier because the outlier is one data point whereas the trend line/statistical relationship by definition has to fit all of the data. Put another way: because NDSU has monopolized the FCS championship on merit, the threshold of "heavyweight" outside of NDSU has fallen dramatically.

Whenever anyone tries to explain how NDSU is successful, some of y'all think we're trying to explain away NDSU's success. That's a hard interpretation to come by without some insecurity. NDSU's championships are the result of hard work, maybe a touch of luck here and there (but again, you don't win *that much* because of luck), and a virtuous cycle that I don't think anyone can pin down all the factors.

Good for NDSU, their fans, and their program! However, as I said, the side effect of this reality is the threshold of what it means to be a heavyweight kind of falls if you want to talk about trends outside of NDSU. I still think there's only 5 or so teams that can justifiably be called heavyweights, because they have like half of the semifinal appearances in the last decade: SHSU, NDSU, EWU, JMU, and SDSU.

[uni88]

Excuse ?? it is an opinion and an acknowledgement, not an excuse. Either way, it is a compliment. Of course, everyone has a system .. my point is, some work much better than others, and even more to point, some are executed much better and more consistently than others.

Don't sweat it You can make 4 points about the Bison, 3 of them complimentary and 1 not and some of their fans will get their panties in a wad about that 1 point.

They have an extraordinary program but they do have some advantages as a state land grant / flagship school.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[wapiti]

I never said it was a magical formula. If has nothing to do with how they got where they are, it's just a fact of where they are.

If we're going to judge teams by the outcomes they create, no reasonable person would compare NDSU to anyone else in the subdivision because their outcomes are an outlier. When one describes any outlier in statistics, it means that (to quote Wolfram Alpha) an observation that lies outside the overall pattern of distribution, meaning an outlier data point doesn't by definition fit the model.

30905
So, for the little dot that's no where near the trend line in the above picture, there is no value judgment or special explanation or magic formula necessary for us to say that it's an outlier. It's an outlier because it's different.

Now, in the case of NDSU and being a winning team at the FCS level, the graph looks more like this:
30906
We can't really make any judgment or detect accurate patterns about the big mass of humanity and "what is success" or a heavy weight at the FCS level if we fixate on the outlier because the outlier is one data point whereas the trend line/statistical relationship by definition has to fit all of the data. Put another way: because NDSU has monopolized the FCS championship on merit, the threshold of "heavyweight" outside of NDSU has fallen dramatically.

Whenever anyone tries to explain how NDSU is successful, some of y'all think we're trying to explain away NDSU's success. That's a hard interpretation to come by without some insecurity. NDSU's championships are the result of hard work, maybe a touch of luck here and there (but again, you don't win *that much* because of luck), and a virtuous cycle that I don't think anyone can pin down all the factors.

Good for NDSU, their fans, and their program! However, as I said, the side effect of this reality is the threshold of what it means to be a heavyweight kind of falls if you want to talk about trends outside of NDSU. I still think there's only 5 or so teams that can justifiably be called heavyweights, because they have like half of the semifinal appearances in the last decade: SHSU, NDSU, EWU, JMU, and SDSU.

Exactly my point on this article. When was the last time NCAT was even in the playoffs????? SD has at least been in the playoffs several times.

[344Johnson]

"Having our system all in place"....is just an excuse. Every team has a "system".

You can have talent and not have guys in the NFL. Emmanuel just hung up his cleats and he could have still played. NDSU has had many guys in camps that eventually didn't make teams.

For me, NDSU is successful the last decade because they have developed both of their lines into very good units. There are other factors obviously but it all starts in the trenches and the Bison have been very good on both sides.

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Agee to disagree.

7 out of 8?

There is always a "first" for everything....

No reason to get defensive.

These guys literally complimented the school you cheer for and said they are in a class of their own. That's a nice thing to say.

[FUBeAR]

xrolleyesx

Who is insecure?

Saying NDSU has some "special system" or is an "outlier" is nonsense in my book.

The only difference between the Bison and most teams in the FCS is they have had very good coaching and they stick to their philosophy of how they want to play.

Pretty easy. There is no magical formula.....xlolxxcoffeex

There IS a “special system” and a “magic formula.”

One of the best Head Coaches in FCS just texted it to me the other day...

”Recruit, Develop, and Retain.”

He’s too modest to have added the 4th ingredient in the “secret sauce,” but FUBeAR will...

Recruit, Develop, Coach (gameday part of “Coach”), and Retain

NDSU, CLEARLY (cumulatively (and maybe each severally)), has done those 4 things FAR better than any other FCS Program in the past decade. Thus, they, as have Alabama AND Clemson in FBS, become an “outlier” in FCS.

Despite your (odd) objections to people saying this (or part(s) of this), there’s certainly no shame in it.

Quite the contrary, it’s something in which to take great pride.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Don't sweat it You can make 4 points about the Bison, 3 of them complimentary and 1 not and some of their fans will get their panties in a wad about that 1 point.

They have an extraordinary program but they do have some advantages as a state land grant / flagship school.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Flagship is UND, so we are told.

At the FCS level, how is being a land grant have advantages? NDSU has low student funds that go to the athletic department, which other schools have a large % go to the athletic department. NDSU's Teammakers are a fund raising organization which I have been a part of for 17 years, and they do a great job of fund raising for athletic scholarships but most schools do this. Maybe COA could be advantage if another school doesn't have it and both schools are going after the same recruit.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No reason to get defensive.

These guys literally complimented the school you cheer for and said they are in a class of their own. That's a nice thing to say.


Actually, I'm not. The 11 years I've been on here and especially since the title run started, there are threads every year about this.

[Herder]

Player development, yes a critical factor. But, IMO the special sauce is . . .

Be top 5 defense every year
dominate the LOS on both sides
Emphasize the Run, control the ball and TOP
Dont turn it over; Punt and play D is a win
The spread, No way pussies

Very few teams share these full philosophies.

[JacksFan40]

First rule of FCS Football, do not question our Bison overlords, some do not enjoy it.

[uni88]

Flagship is UND, so we are told.

At the FCS level, how is being a land grant have advantages? NDSU has low student funds that go to the athletic department, which other schools have a large % go to the athletic department. NDSU's Teammakers are a fund raising organization which I have been a part of for 17 years, and they do a great job of fund raising for athletic scholarships but most schools do this. Maybe COA could be advantage if another school doesn't have it and both schools are going after the same recruit.Community support & affinity as a poster called it on another thread.

In Iowa, UofI is #1, Iowa State #2 and UNI is the red-headed step child fighting for fans, funding, etc... UNI isn't even #1 in Waterloo/Cedar Falls. There are a lot of schools in FCS fighting for table scraps like UNI.

NDSU shares this advantage with the other Dakota schools, Montana schools and Delaware and they haven't done what the Bison have so those natties are still a huge accomplishment.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Iridebikes]

This is a laugher!!!
https://sports.yahoo.com/ndsu-san-diego-n-c-t-seek-extend-171717127--ncaaf.html

Putting San Diego and NCAT in with NDSU as a heavyweight is ridiculous.

SD and NCAT may be a heavyweight in their conference, but not in FCS. I would not have those two in my top 25, while NDSU may be number 1.
Neither SD or NCAT will even get a sniff at the NC.

I noticed an author is not listed, just the AP.

This disturbing thing to me is that this appears to be a STATS article. Here's the link: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190710131614998913304&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS

- - - Updated - - -


This is a laugher!!!
https://sports.yahoo.com/ndsu-san-diego-n-c-t-seek-extend-171717127--ncaaf.html

Putting San Diego and NCAT in with NDSU as a heavyweight is ridiculous.

SD and NCAT may be a heavyweight in their conference, but not in FCS. I would not have those two in my top 25, while NDSU may be number 1.
Neither SD or NCAT will even get a sniff at the NC.

I noticed an author is not listed, just the AP.

This disturbing thing to me is that this appears to be a STATS article. Here's the link: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190710131614998913304&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS

[DEX]

Here's hoping folks will take the time to read the article and place it in it's proper context. Reducing it to the usage of a single word is totally missing the point.

[Redbird 4th & short]

This disturbing thing to me is that this appears to be a STATS article. Here's the link: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190710131614998913304&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS

- - - Updated - - -



This disturbing thing to me is that this appears to be a STATS article. Here's the link: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190710131614998913304&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS

Good catch !!

STATS ... it's more about the clicks ... which requires a "representative democracy" approach to ranking teams and writing articles .... so it's more about the clicks.

[Thumper 76]

First rule of FCS Football, do not question our Bison overlords, some do not enjoy it.

xlolx the best part is it was purely a compliment from the start and they’re still acting like someone tried to slight them xlolx

[WestCoastAggie]

Here's hoping folks will take the time to read the article and place it in it's proper context. Reducing it to the usage of a single word is totally missing the point.

Let's not let logic get in the way of the Gaslighting that's occurring.

[wapiti]

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DEX https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2780574#post2780574)
Here's hoping folks will take the time to read the article and place it in it's proper context. Reducing it to the usage of a single word is totally missing the point.



Let's not let logic get in the way of the Gaslighting that's occurring.

The article is quite short and mentions nothing about being a heavyweight within their conference, but it does mention the FCS as a whole.
The article puts SD and NCAT at the same level as NDSU, which is a huge laugher. Neither SD or NCAT would be a heavyweight in the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, Southland or Southern conferences.

When was the last time NCAT even played in a playoff game? (Bowl games do not count as a playoff game.)

[DEX]

The article is quite short and mentions nothing about being a heavyweight within their conference, but it does mention the FCS as a whole.
The article puts SD and NCAT at the same level as NDSU, which is a huge laugher. Neither SD or NCAT would be a heavyweight in the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, Southland or Southern conferences.

When was the last time NCAT even played in a playoff game? (Bowl games do not count as a playoff game.)

NCA&T's recent success can't be measured by FCS playoffs appearances because the meac does not participate in the playoffs. If the conference hadn't given up it's autobid A&T would have received an invite the last 4 years running.
As it stands the only way we can receive a playoff bid is to finish in second place which is what happened in 2016, our last appearance. Our success can be better measured by the fact we have an fcs best 11 game road winning streak, 48 consecutive weeks ranked in the coaches poll, wins over fbs teams last 3 years in a row and since 2013 have a 3-2 record vs fcs ranked teams. We'll hopefully have a chance to build upon that by taking on Elon next month and NDSU in 2020.

Oh, and three Celebration Bowl titles since 2015. Sorry if that's not good enough for you but it works for us.

[AmsterBison]

Yeah, I like the article - I don't think that San Diego or NC A&T are FCS heavyweights... San Diego is a Pioneer heavyweight and NC A&T is an HBCU heavyweight.

What can't be argued is that the three programs have long winning streaks.

Still think my favorite streak is road wins against P5 teams: NDSU's streak is at 5 because even P5 teams have a hard time beating P5 teams on the road.



TeamId
Cnt
MaxOfGameDate


Oklahoma
17
9/3/2016


Northwestern
8
9/30/2017


Clemson
7
10/13/2017


North Dakota State
5
9/3/2009


Florida
4
11/11/2017


Alabama
4
11/25/2017


Notre Dame
4
11/25/2017


Washington State
3
9/21/2018


Wake Forest
3
10/20/2018



NDSU is going to go this entire decade without losing to a P5 team despite playing 5 of them.

As far as I can tell, only one other FCS team has an active win streak against P5 teams (Nicholls with a 1-game streak.)

Edit: I think that my FBS numbers might be messed up a bit because of all the stupid neutral site games so I'll be looking into that.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Yeah, I like the article - I don't think that San Diego or NC A&T are FCS heavyweights... San Diego is a Pioneer heavyweight and NC A&T is an HBCU heavyweight.

What can't be argued is that the three programs have long winning streaks.

Still think my favorite streak is road wins against P5 teams: NDSU's streak is at 5 because even P5 teams have a hard time beating P5 teams on the road.



TeamId
Cnt
MaxOfGameDate


Oklahoma
17
9/3/2016


Northwestern
8
9/30/2017


Clemson
7
10/13/2017


North Dakota State
5
9/3/2009


Florida
4
11/11/2017


Alabama
4
11/25/2017


Notre Dame
4
11/25/2017


Washington State
3
9/21/2018


Wake Forest
3
10/20/2018



NDSU is going to go this entire decade without losing to a P5 team despite playing 5 of them.

As far as I can tell, only one other FCS team has an active win streak against P5 teams (Nicholls with a 1-game streak.)

Edit: I think that my FBS numbers might be messed up a bit because of all the stupid neutral site games so I'll be looking into that.

ISUr has won our last 2 D-I games .... in 2018 agaist G5 CSU and then in 2016 against P5 Northwestern (had a bowl game game that year, ranked top 30 by most computers).

So we have a 1 game win streak ... 1, 1, 1, in a row, 1 in a row, let's go !!!

We play G5 Northern Illinois this year, so the P5 streak will live on !!

[AmsterBison]

ISUr has won our last 2 D-I games .... in 2018 agaist G5 CSU and then in 2016 against P5 Northwestern (had a bowl game game that year, ranked top 30 by most computers).

So we have a 1 game win streak ... 1, 1, 1, in a row, 1 in a row, let's go !!!

We play G5 Northern Illinois this year, so the P5 streak will live on !!

Ha! Yep, I missed Illinois State in there. Here's the complete list which may have some mistakes due to neutral site championship games:



TeamId
Cnt
MaxOfGameDate


Oklahoma
17
9/3/2016


Northwestern
8
9/30/2017


Clemson
7
10/13/2017


North Dakota State
5
9/3/2009


Florida
4
11/11/2017


Alabama
4
11/25/2017


Notre Dame
4
11/25/2017


Washington State
3
9/21/2018


Wake Forest
3
10/20/2018


North Carolina State
2
10/27/2018


Troy
2
9/10/2016


Ohio State
2
10/20/2018


Missouri
2
10/13/2018


South Florida
2
9/19/2015


Stanford
2
11/3/2018


Syracuse
2
10/6/2018


Texas
2
10/27/2018


Mississippi State
1
11/10/2018


Iowa
1
11/3/2018


Central Florida
1
9/10/2016


Arizona State
1
11/17/2018


Minnesota
1
11/3/2018


Buffalo
1
8/31/2017


California
1
11/3/2018


Cincinnati
1
9/9/2017


Wisconsin
1
11/10/2018


Eastern Michigan
1
9/30/2017


Fresno State
1
9/8/2018


Georgia
1
10/13/2018


Illinois State
1
9/5/2015


Miami (FL)
1
11/10/2018


San Fran State
1
9/18/1999


Nicholls State
1
9/9/2017


North Texas
1
9/16/2017


Oregon
1
11/10/2018


Penn State
1
11/3/2018


Purdue
1
11/10/2018


TCU
1
11/10/2018


Utah
1
11/3/2018


Washington
1
10/27/2018


Kentucky
1
11/10/2018



The date is for the last road loss against a P5 team.