FCS Attendance Averages Down Once Again in 2018

[bonarae]

This is also a problem in all other CFB levels, not just ours. xsmhx

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190605135837754654004&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS

[TheKingpin28]

This is also a problem in all other CFB levels, not just ours. xsmhx

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190605135837754654004&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCSWith the rise of ESPN+ and other OTP options, some people find it hard to justify paying over $200+ a game (parking+concessions+travel/accommodations included) for a family of 4 to see their team play VS $60 a year and no one blocking the TV.

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[SFA 93]

Pretty much all sports attendance is going down hill fast

technology, man caves, comfort of your own house, big screen HD TVs, frig. dealing with A-holes at the game, parking, traffic, money prices, the list goes on and on.

I know for me personally whenever I get the notion to go to a live game my mind goes, gas money, parking money, food and drink money, ticket money, family of 4 going, hotel money, and yep that notion goes out the door pretty fast.

[Preferred Walk-On]

With the rise of ESPN+ and other OTP options, some people find it hard to justify paying over $200+ a game (parking+concessions+travel/accommodations included) for a family of 4 to see their team play VS $60 a year and no one blocking the TV.

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Looks like the decrease in attendance is amplified by the decrease in level. DII and DIII games are not being televised/streamed, yet their decreases are even more than FCS/FBS. I agree that cost to attend games is likely playing a part in that (you did not even mention the price of a ticket being $50-100+/person when you factor in face value + booster fees). What is unclear to me is why hasn't the FBS seen as much of a drop, considering they have the most televised/streamed games AND their prices have gotten very high to attend.

[AmsterBison]

Self-reported attendance figures are down?

I call that a failure of imagination.

[TheKingpin28]

Looks like the decrease in attendance is amplified by the decrease in level. DII and DIII games are not being televised/streamed, yet their decreases are even more than FCS/FBS. I agree that cost to attend games is likely playing a part in that (you did not even mention the price of a ticket being $50-100+/person when you factor in face value + booster fees). What is unclear to me is why hasn't the FBS seen as much of a drop, considering they have the most televised/streamed games AND their prices have gotten very high to attend.D2 games exist on Plus and 3, not as prevalent though, and I know some schools do in house feeds and stream their games on their athletic sites for fans who cannot make the games but still want to see it.

Also, how many schools in the FCS and lower, do fan experience events to bring families to games? Diehard fans and boosters always exist, but how do you convince a family who might not be as inclined to go to let's say a D2 game here in the upper midwest and not have things for the kids? I'm not saying that it's going to help significantly but if you want more fans to come and not stay at home, give them something to look forward to before the games.

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[DFW HOYA]

Low tide for Patriot League attendance:

Lafayette: 5,844 (+4%)
Holy Cross: 5,523 (-23%)
Colgate: 4,883 (+1%)
Lehigh: 4,854 (-32%)
Fordham: 3,964 (-15%)
Bucknell: 2,629 (-9%)
Georgetown: 1,840 (-15%)

[RootinFerDukes]

With the rise of ESPN+ and other OTP options, some people find it hard to justify paying over $200+ a game (parking+concessions+travel/accommodations included) for a family of 4 to see their team play VS $60 a year and no one blocking the TV.

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This is assuming your wife and kids leave you alone for the duration of the game.

[RootinFerDukes]

Looks like the decrease in attendance is amplified by the decrease in level. DII and DIII games are not being televised/streamed, yet their decreases are even more than FCS/FBS. I agree that cost to attend games is likely playing a part in that (you did not even mention the price of a ticket being $50-100+/person when you factor in face value + booster fees). What is unclear to me is why hasn't the FBS seen as much of a drop, considering they have the most televised/streamed games AND their prices have gotten very high to attend.

The perception of it being “higher level” secures it better.

[GAD]

Jackson State reclaims the top spot

[Ivytalk]

Harvard actually played 6 home games last year if you count the Yale game at Fenway. Even backing that game out, Harvard led the Ivies in average home attendance (9,842), with three games over 10,000 at Harvard Stadium. The overall trend is down, though. Undefeated league champ Princeton averaged just 6,323 fans per home game at its handsome stadium.

[RootinFerDukes]

Jackson State reclaims the top spot

Host some playoff games and maybe the numbers may become a bit more apples to apples.

[Panther88]

Host some playoff games and maybe the numbers may become a bit more apples to apples.

Playoff game? Our conference chiefs have stated their position on the matter and invested fully in The CB, which seems to be doing okay, considering the birth date. The SWAC has led FCS, former I-aa attendance every single year excepting one, since the division was created in '78?

I like what my undergrad is doing to exploit local-type rival conference-regional matchups (SHSU, SFA???, Lamar???, Nichols St, ACU, IWU, HBU). PV has beaten IWU and SFA during the last meeting. We have ACU, HBU, and Nichols St scheduled over the next 2 years and lost to SHSU, Lamar, and ACU during the last meeting. We owe you soon. xlolx



Seven of the top 13 attendances came from HBCUs - historically black colleges and universities. That helped the Southwestern Athletic Conference to average an FCS-high 15,240 fans per game, with the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference ranking third out of 13 conferences at 9,815. The Missouri Valley Football Conference was second at 9,864.

[Panther88]

Host some playoff games and maybe the numbers may become a bit more apples to apples.

Playoff game? Our conference chiefs have stated their position on the matter and invested our conf champion fully in The CB. The SWAC has led FCS, former I-aa attendance every single year excepting one, since the division was created in '78?

I like what my undergrad is doing to exploit rival conference-regional matchups (SHSU, SFA???, Lamar???, Nichols St, ACU, IWU, HBU). PV has beaten IWU and SFA during the last meeting. We have ACU, HBU, and Nichols St scheduled over the next 2 years and lost to SHSU, Lamar, and ACU during the last meeting. We owe all of you former PV-beaters lol. xlolx



Seven of the top 13 attendances came from HBCUs - historically black colleges and universities. That helped the Southwestern Athletic Conference to average an FCS-high 15,240 fans per game, with the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference ranking third out of 13 conferences at 9,815. The Missouri Valley Football Conference was second at 9,864.

[Laker]

Looks like the decrease in attendance is amplified by the decrease in level. DII and DIII games are not being televised/streamed, yet their decreases are even more than FCS/FBS.

I can watch every MSU Mav football game online- heck, every NSIC game- and for basketball too. Other sports are also often available, including playoffs. And for free. Other conferences charge. You do have to pay for WCHA hockey, but that is D1.

[TheKingpin28]

This is assuming your wife and kids leave you alone for the duration of the game.I'm not married and do not have kids. This is why I can go to the games on a consistent basis with friends. xlolx

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[Go Green]

It was really depressing seeing only a four-figure crowd at Princeton Stadium for last year's Ivy League battle of unbeatens last November....

People who actually were there insisted it was higher than the reported 8K. Maybe it was. But the crowds are nowhere near where they used to be...

[CHIP72]

Low tide for Patriot League attendance:

Lafayette: 5,844 (+4%)
Holy Cross: 5,523 (-23%)
Colgate: 4,883 (+1%)
Lehigh: 4,854 (-32%)
Fordham: 3,964 (-15%)
Bucknell: 2,629 (-9%)
Georgetown: 1,840 (-15%)

I’m assuming Lafayette’s increase was due to hosting the L-L game (154). It should be noted that game was a couple thousand short of a sellout, something that would have been unthinkable earlier in this decade.

Georgetown was hurt by their facility issues/reduced seating capacity.


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[Cocky]

Until the cellphone coverage or WiFi issue is solved at stadium watch the trend continue. People don’t go to games because they send text and videos or check or watch on other games.

[DFW HOYA]

I’m assuming Lafayette’s increase was due to hosting the L-L game (154). It should be noted that game was a couple thousand short of a sellout, something that would have been unthinkable earlier in this decade.

Net of that game, Lafayette's average was 4,547. This is the view from LSN during its Homecoming game.

https://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/lafayette_402.jpg

[Sader87]

Dartmouth @ Princeton not drawing 10K last year speaks volumes on how far Ivy and FCS football in general has fallen game-day interest anyway in the Northeast.

Holy Cross home games are a shell of what they were atmosphere -wise a generation ago save for maybe Homecoming.

[RootinFerDukes]

Dartmouth @ Princeton not drawing 10K last year speaks volumes on how far Ivy and FCS football in general has fallen game-day interest anyway in the Northeast.

Holy Cross home games are a shell of what they were atmosphere -wise a generation ago save for maybe Homecoming.

Blame the New England patriots?

[Go Green]

I watched an old episode of Star Trek DS9 last year. Commander Sisko used the holodeck to create an old (fictional) baseball player and he talked about the game. According to the "player" baseball disbanded sometime in the Twenty-Second Century after only 300 people attended the World Series.

We're on the clock!

:)

[Go Green]

Blame the New England patriots?

That rain was forecast in Princeton that day didn't help either.

But the overall downward trend is undeniable.

[TheKingpin28]

I watched an old episode of Star Trek DS9 last year. Commander Sisko used the holodeck to create an old (fictional) baseball player and he talked about the game. According to the "player" baseball disbanded sometime in the Twenty-Second Century after only 300 people attended the World Series.

We're on the clock!

:)

Rom is a terrible baseball player.

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross home games are a shell of what they were atmosphere -wise a generation ago save for maybe Homecoming.

A generation ago, 1983 to be exact, HC played seven games inside the Commonwealth, two in NH, and one in Connecticut. Only one game (a win at Delaware) was not within driving distance of fans in New England.

In 2018, UMass, UConn, and BU have been replaced by Bucknell, Lafayette, and Georgetown. And the fans have responded accordingly.

[GAD]

Host some playoff games and maybe the numbers may become a bit more apples to apples.
It would be said that our neutral site games still keep it from being apples to apples

[Go Green]

A generation ago, 1983 to be exact, HC played seven games inside the Commonwealth, two in NH, and one in Connecticut. Only one game (a win at Delaware) was not within driving distance of fans in New England.

In 2018, UMass, UConn, and BU have been replaced by Bucknell, Lafayette, and Georgetown. And the fans have responded accordingly.

Attendance at BC basketball games is down for similar reasons. BC cared about playing UConn and Georgetown. They don't care about Wake Forest and NC State.

[Reign of Terrier]

Self-reported attendance figures are down?

I call that a failure of imagination.

Post of the yearxlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

But on a serious note, this trend is somewhat expected. The price of tickets and parking has already been mentioned. At Wofford, it's kind of wild that youth tickets are like $12 whereas adult tickets are like $27. If you bring a family of 3-4 it's $50 before parking!

But that's a Wofford problem, as for the national scene, there's some things that need to be minced. For one, there has never been a golden age of FCS attendance. The trend of half empty stadiums have always been a thing, because for many programs, they don't exist to win championships but to secure revenue. Don't believe me? Something like half of the FCS has never won a playoff game. The HBCUs are in their own little world, where winning their conference is the goal (more power to them?) and their knocking out attendance numbers. To some degree the Ivys are doing the same thing, but as I've stated before, I don't have as strong opinions about the Ivys on some people here do.

Bottom line, a lot of schools want to both have a football team that isn't totally irrelevant, while also being able to field a team on the court for March Madness. They get the added benefit of playing money games in football, bringing more revenue for their school. The FCS is the optimal set up for teams like a small private school with a somewhat competitive basketball team like Wofford, a directional state university that probably won't win a championship (just glancing on wikipedia, think of a team like UT Martin) , or teams that don't care about winning championships (the Ivy's/HBCUs).

The teams that care about winning championships or making a lot of money with their brand of football have moved up to FBS (App State/Georgia southern/Marshall) or are still at the top of attendance numbers currently at FCS (NDSU, JMU, etc).

Whenever attendance comes up, I think people wrongfully look at it as an indicator of the FCS brand being terrible. It isn't. If FCS attendance were great, say 5,000 more on average across the board, you would be seeing a lot of teams moving up to FBS. My point in all of this is that what differentiates the FCS from P5 isn't the fan experience, but the dedication of the institutions to non-game-related things like student athlete scholarship, community representation, and niche culture prestige (see: ivy's and HBCUs).

But I would contest that this is actually better than G5 football because a considerable amount of those team just exist to generate revenue. Put another way, I think the Georgia Southerns and App States of the world are in the G5 today to some day, whether it be 20 years from now or 50, play at the P5 level (look at a team like Louisville, it's not crazy). Meanwhile, I don't think you can say the same about Texas State or South Alabama.

[kab]

I think prices are a big part of it, by the time you pay for tickets, parking and then food and beverages it adds up.
i don’t know why these stadiums think they are 5 star restaurants.

the other thing I notice is student apathy, give them a free ticket and they still leave at half time and the first half they are on their phone the whole time.

[DFW HOYA]

With the exception of Liberty, nearly every other school jumping to I-A over the last 30 years has been a state school. That's no accident.

The schools that made the jump not only upgraded its visibility, but upgraded its position related to an even more important audience--their respective state legislatures. North Texas is no longer seen as peers among SFA and Sam Houston, and their state appropriations reflect it. Enrollment goes up, so does funding. Old Dominion, Georgia State, Marshall, South Alabama, Charlotte, Troy, etc., have all leveraged athletics in general and football in specific to elevate the status of their schools within the states that fund them. Obviously if you're a private school, that's not a concern.

[Reign of Terrier]

With the exception of Liberty, nearly every other school jumping to I-A over the last 30 years has been a state school. That's no accident.

The schools that made the jump not only upgraded its visibility, but upgraded its position related to an even more important audience--their respective state legislatures. North Texas is no longer seen as peers among SFA and Sam Houston, and their state appropriations reflect it. Enrollment goes up, so does funding. Old Dominion, Georgia State, Marshall, South Alabama, Charlotte, Troy, etc., have all leveraged athletics in general and football in specific to elevate the status of their schools within the states that fund them. Obviously if you're a private school, that's not a concern.

And only about half of them would regularly see more than 12k at a game. Probably less.

[Sader87]

I really don't think there is a silver bullet answer to this issue i.e. declining attendance.

it can probably be stemmed somewhat (in HC's case, install lights and play later afternoon or night games...somehow get creative as well in home scheduling maybe UMass or UConn at Fitton once in awhile though I know that will tough....improve the game-day atmosphere somewhat etc etc) but all the societal reasons that have been stated here and in other discussions on this topic are probably never changing that much.

[ngineer]

Pretty much all sports attendance is going down hill fast

technology, man caves, comfort of your own house, big screen HD TVs, frig. dealing with A-holes at the game, parking, traffic, money prices, the list goes on and on.

I know for me personally whenever I get the notion to go to a live game my mind goes, gas money, parking money, food and drink money, ticket money, family of 4 going, hotel money, and yep that notion goes out the door pretty fast.

Says it all. Culture has changed. Too many attached to their electronics and staying indoors. We are becoming anti-social society.

[walliver]

I suspect the real issue is societal trends away from football.
Even among the NFL-light teams like Alabama and Clemson, most of the students are gone by halftime. These students will not be buying season tickets and parking passes and donating money. Kids today grow up playing AYSO soccer, not Pop Warner football. Ethnic changes in the population favor soccer over football. In some parts of the country, the NFL is king, and college football in general is seen as minor league.
On the field, commercial breaks and prolonged replays mean the games take much longer to play with no more action on the field than before.

[TennBison]

With the rise of ESPN+ and other OTP options, some people find it hard to justify paying over $200+ a game (parking+concessions+travel/accommodations included) for a family of 4 to see their team play VS $60 a year and no one blocking the TV.

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Better that it is $200 a game for the whole family to watch a Bison game than the $200 just for one ticket (ticket only) for a pro football game. So $200 per family sounds like a great deal to me.

[number1]

But on a serious note, this trend is somewhat expected. The price of tickets and parking has already been mentioned. At Wofford, it's kind of wild that youth tickets are like $12 whereas adult tickets are like $27. If you bring a family of 3-4 it's $50 before parking!

But that's a Wofford problem, as for the national scene, there's some things that need to be minced. For one, there has never been a golden age of FCS attendance. The trend of half empty stadiums have always been a thing, because for many programs, they don't exist to win championships but to secure revenue. Don't believe me? Something like half of the FCS has never won a playoff game. The HBCUs are in their own little world, where winning their conference is the goal (more power to them?) and their knocking out attendance numbers. To some degree the Ivys are doing the same thing, but as I've stated before, I don't have as strong opinions about the Ivys on some people here do.

Bottom line, a lot of schools want to both have a football team that isn't totally irrelevant, while also being able to field a team on the court for March Madness. They get the added benefit of playing money games in football, bringing more revenue for their school. The FCS is the optimal set up for teams like a small private school with a somewhat competitive basketball team like Wofford, a directional state university that probably won't win a championship (just glancing on wikipedia, think of a team like UT Martin) , or teams that don't care about winning championships (the Ivy's/HBCUs).

The teams that care about winning championships or making a lot of money with their brand of football have moved up to FBS (App State/Georgia southern/Marshall) or are still at the top of attendance numbers currently at FCS (NDSU, JMU, etc).

Whenever attendance comes up, I think people wrongfully look at it as an indicator of the FCS brand being terrible. It isn't. If FCS attendance were great, say 5,000 more on average across the board, you would be seeing a lot of teams moving up to FBS. My point in all of this is that what differentiates the FCS from P5 isn't the fan experience, but the dedication of the institutions to non-game-related things like student athlete scholarship, community representation, and niche culture prestige (see: ivy's and HBCUs).

But I would contest that this is actually better than G5 football because a considerable amount of those team just exist to generate revenue. Put another way, I think the Georgia Southerns and App States of the world are in the G5 today to some day, whether it be 20 years from now or 50, play at the P5 level (look at a team like Louisville, it's not crazy). Meanwhile, I don't think you can say the same about Texas State or South Alabama.

It's not that we don't care about winning a championship, we just don't see the playoffs as the best option for us. All of our other sports compete in the D-1 playoffs, but the bowl game is just a better option for us in football.

[Reign of Terrier]

It's not that we don't care about winning a championship, we just don't see the playoffs as the best option for us. All of our other sports compete in the D-1 playoffs, but the bowl game is just a better option for us in football.

My unpopular opinion on here is that a bowl system (even if financially unfeasible) would give better seasonal cloture for the 90% of FCS football teams who will almost certainly never win a championship.

Even before NDSU dominated the subdivision, only about 20 programs had won an FCS championship, with about 1/3 leaving for FBS, and another 1/3 not winning it since the 80s. Keep in mind that something like 150 programs have played FCS football.

A bowl game gives you the opportunity to end your season on a high note, or at least you're at a better chance of it. The game's not about winning championships, the numbers pretty much show that.

[dbackjon]

My unpopular opinion on here is that a bowl system (even if financially unfeasible) would give better seasonal cloture for the 90% of FCS football teams who will almost certainly never win a championship.

Even before NDSU dominated the subdivision, only about 20 programs had won an FCS championship, with about 1/3 leaving for FBS, and another 1/3 not winning it since the 80s. Keep in mind that something like 150 programs have played FCS football.

A bowl game gives you the opportunity to end your season on a high note, or at least you're at a better chance of it. The game's not about winning championships, the numbers pretty much show that.

We all like participation trophies! :)

[Bohcat]

Says it all. Culture has changed. Too many attached to their electronics and staying indoors. We are becoming anti-social society.

A bunch of people hiding behind computer screens using forums to talk about football instead of meeting up at social clubs, bowling leagues, or civic organizations. It's a shame...

[Reign of Terrier]

We all like participation trophies! :)

All I'm saying is: don't kid yourself and think the game has ever been about winning National championships!;)

[Bisonoline]

All I'm saying is: don't kid yourself and think the game has ever been about winning championships!;)

You are wrong.

[Sader87]

Turning this back to attendance and lack thereof, what would you propose are some solutions/ideas to at the very least stem the trend of decling numbahs?

Each school/region is different obviously so there are probably no cure-all but I'm just curious what some ideas would be rather than to continually bemoan the situation. Thanks.

[DFW HOYA]

Turning this back to attendance and lack thereof, what would you propose are some solutions/ideas to at the very least stem the trend of decling numbahs?

Each school/region is different obviously so there are probably no cure-all but I'm just curious what some ideas would be rather than to continually bemoan the situation. Thanks.

1. Schedule opponents of local interest. Yale-UConn beats Princeton-Stetson every time.

2. Improve the total gameday experience, particularly halftime, something PL and Ivy schools are awful at. (Ask the HBCU fans why they attend in such large numbers, and halftime is near the top of the list.).

3. Invest in facilities. People have better things to do these days than sit in a worn out bleacher seat on a Saturday afternoon listening to a public address system that sounds like something from a drive-in movie.

[PaladinFan]

My thoughts.

1. I think interest in the sport, generally, is decreasing. You are seeing decreased interest at virtually every level.

2. Live streaming the games hurts attendance. I love Furman football, but if I don't have to spend four hours in the car and drive through Atlanta to make a game that I can watch at home, I am probably not going to.

3. There's lack of competition. Most levels of the college game are dominated by one or two teams. That, I think, gets old after a while.

4. Conference realignment hasn't helped. Teams are chasing greener pastures and taking our former rivalries in the process. Watching Furman play a home game against UTC or Western isn't the same as when App State or Georgia Southern came to town.

[Go Green]

1. Schedule opponents of local interest. Yale-UConn beats Princeton-Stetson every time.



Dartmouth's experience on this is mixed. A home opener against a non-New England OOC opponent with good weather has drawn better in Hanover than a mid-season game against a New England opponent with tolerable weather.

[Go Green]

2. Live streaming the games hurts attendance. I love Furman football, but if I don't have to spend four hours in the car and drive through Atlanta to make a game that I can watch at home, I am probably not going to.




I plead guilty. I used to drive at least once a year 2-3 hours to watch Dartmouth play. Haven't done that since the games have streamed.

That being said, it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Schedule opponents of local interest. Yale-UConn beats Princeton-Stetson every time.

2. Improve the total gameday experience, particularly halftime, something PL and Ivy schools are awful at. (Ask the HBCU fans why they attend in such large numbers, and halftime is near the top of the list.).

3. Invest in facilities. People have better things to do these days than sit in a worn out bleacher seat on a Saturday afternoon listening to a public address system that sounds like something from a drive-in movie.

I think the real issue is that facilities in general have not solved a critical problem: consistent WiFi for an entire stadium. Kids today love technology, but they are not complete hermits. They will go out, but when they go out, they expect complete connectivity, and the ability to share/brag about the event they're going to, instantly. College football for many good reasons are behind on these renovations - its only last year that the NFL has made all of its venues wi-fi enabled, and even then there are technical challenges. But they more than the NFL need to solve the issue, because going to a college football game isn't always about winning or losing, it's about identifying with your alma mater.

More:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-solution-to-declining-college-football-attendance-numbers-is-oversharing/

I think college football venues could have special "WiFi fan zones" with fast connectivity to allow people to take pictures, videos and share their experiences. The first one that does will see an attendance bump. Bottom line, though, is I don't think it's good enough to just say "kids like to stay in their caves". Kids like to overshare and show themselves wrapped up in the flag of the school. Schools need to figure out how best to get kids to do that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Princeton/Dartmouth game is one I attended as a member of the press. It wasn't more than 10k attendance, but unless Dartmouth was busing down students, fans, and interested people 8 hours away (they weren't), it was hard to see how it was going to be a packed house. If I remember right the game was on ESPN+, too, so there wasn't a free stream. You needed to care enough to drive to the game or subscribe to ESPN+ to watch it. Incidentally, it was by far the best game I attended all last year. Two of the best teams in FCS last year, though few people seemed to know.

One thing that harms attendance twice, by the way, are the fact that there are fewer marching bands on the scene. Not only HBCU fans come for the bands. People who come to a college football game want to come for an experience, and that includes a marching band. Princeton has their band, and they played during that game.

[PaladinFan]

I plead guilty. I used to drive at least once a year 2-3 hours to watch Dartmouth play. Haven't done that since the games have streamed.

That being said, it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

I have the misfortune of living on the other side of Atlanta from Greenville. To reach Furman, I have to drive from one end of Atlanta's sprawling metropolis to the other - an issue that has only gotten worse over the years.

For the last few years, I have gotten in the habit of attending Furman's games at Samford and Mercer, which are far easier for me to attend and require no dealings with Atlanta's traffic. Fortunately, Furman plays on the road in alternating years at those locations, so I generally have one game I can make.

When Furman was bad (much of the last 10 years) my desire to battle Atlanta traffic to see crappy football was virtually nil. It was bothersome enough to watch crappy football from my living room.

[Go Green]

I think the real issue is that facilities in general have not solved a critical problem: consistent WiFi for an entire stadium. Kids today love technology, but they are not complete hermits. They will go out, but when they go out, they expect complete connectivity, and the ability to share/brag about the event they're going to, instantly. College football for many good reasons are behind on these renovations - its only last year that the NFL has made all of its venues wi-fi enabled, and even then there are technical challenges. But they more than the NFL need to solve the issue, because going to a college football game isn't always about winning or losing, it's about identifying with your alma mater.

I haven't thought about it, but lack of good wi-fi could very well explain massive recent drops in attendance at Penn and Yale.

Anyone know if they can get three bars at Franklin Field or the Yale Bowl?

[CHIP72]

I think the real issue is that facilities in general have not solved a critical problem: consistent WiFi for an entire stadium. Kids today love technology, but they are not complete hermits. They will go out, but when they go out, they expect complete connectivity, and the ability to share/brag about the event they're going to, instantly. College football for many good reasons are behind on these renovations - its only last year that the NFL has made all of its venues wi-fi enabled, and even then there are technical challenges. But they more than the NFL need to solve the issue, because going to a college football game isn't always about winning or losing, it's about identifying with your alma mater.

More:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-solution-to-declining-college-football-attendance-numbers-is-oversharing/

I think college football venues could have special "WiFi fan zones" with fast connectivity to allow people to take pictures, videos and share their experiences. The first one that does will see an attendance bump. Bottom line, though, is I don't think it's good enough to just say "kids like to stay in their caves". Kids like to overshare and show themselves wrapped up in the flag of the school. Schools need to figure out how best to get kids to do that.

The worst place I've been to college-wise as far as cell phone reception by far is Lafayette. The abysmal reception I have every time I attend a game at Fisher Stadium or Kirby Sports Center drives me nuts.

[voy vey]

I haven't thought about it, but lack of good wi-fi could very well explain massive recent drops in attendance at Penn and Yale.

Anyone know if they can get three bars at Franklin Field or the Yale Bowl?

I can't say that I've checked cell reception at the Bowl very closely, but I think it's neither stellar nor awful.
Wi-Fi there is non-existent. So, if you're not on an unlimited data plan, I can see that being a deterrent to repeated attendance among the selfie/Snapchat/Instagram crowd.

[voy vey]

I can't say that I've checked cell reception at the Bowl very closely, but I think it's neither stellar nor awful.
Wi-Fi there is non-existent. So, if you're not on an unlimited data plan, I can see that being a deterrent to repeated attendance among the selfie/Snapchat/Instagram crowd.I should add that cell reception at Yale/Harvard is abysmal. The more people that show up, the worse the phone experience is. (Causation over correlation.)

[CHIP72]

I should add that cell reception at Yale/Harvard is abysmal. The more people that show up, the worse the phone experience is. (Causation over correlation.)

That’s generally true at every sports event, though it isn’t as bad as it was say 5-7 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

You are wrong.

If people valued winning championships above all else, 80% of teams wouldn't have any fans. Most teams have not won a national championship. And most teams have not won more than a handful of conference titles, which over the course of one's lifetime means the people who are watching sports for the joy of winning the championships are wasting their time on a monumental scale. Randomly select any of the bottom 110ish teams in both FCS and FBS teams (take out Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State, and a handful of others) and the probability that your team will win a national championship drops like a rock, and the same can be said about conference titles.

So it's obviously not about championships.

This is an obvious fact, but I'm not surprised it's beyond the grasp of your monosyllabic-thinking brain

[Bisonoline]

If people valued winning championships above all else, 80% of teams wouldn't have any fans. Most teams have not won a national championship. And most teams have not won more than a handful of conference titles, which over the course of one's lifetime means the people who are watching sports for the joy of winning the championships are wasting their time on a monumental scale. Randomly select any of the bottom 110ish teams in both FCS and FBS teams (take out Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State, and a handful of others) and the probability that your team will win a national championship drops like a rock, and the same can be said about conference titles.

Your wrong.

So it's obviously not about championships.

This is an obvious fact, but I'm not surprised it's beyond the grasp of your monosyllabic-thinking brain

Its obvious that all you are doing is running your mouth while thinking your opinion is fact. Just like most of your postings. But then again you do like to hear yourself talk. And please you dont need to tell us that you are a communications major etc etc etc. xrotatehxxblahxxblahx

Again---your opinion isnt fact.

You may ask how do I know this?

Ive been involved as a player in multiple organized sports from the 4th grade all the way till after college. Since that time Ive been involved with numerous alumni associations, fund raising arms and booster clubs all which are dedicated to their teams playing at a high level and winning championships.
This isnt T-ball where participation ribbons rule the day.

So again you are wrong.

[Reign of Terrier]

Its obvious that all you are doing is running your mouth while thinking your opinion is fact. Just like most of your postings. But then again you do like to hear yourself talk. And please you dont need to tell us that you are a communications major etc etc etc. xrotatehxxblahxxblahx

Again---your opinion isnt fact.

You may ask how do I know this?

Ive been involved as a player in multiple organized sports from the 4th grade all the way till after college. Since that time Ive been involved with numerous alumni associations, fund raising arms and booster clubs all which are dedicated to their teams playing at a high level and winning championships.
This isnt T-ball where participation ribbons rule the day.

So again you are wrong.

One of the differences between you and me is that I base my opinions on fact and I don't inflate my anecdotal experience to the entire world without some hard data to support it (The most annoying guy with the least awareness on this board, who pulls for the team that's won 7 championships in the last 8 years thinks it's all about championships. How novel!). When someone presents me evidence that falsifies my position, I change my opinion. The same cannot be said of you.

You're not the only one who's been involved with multiple organized sports from the 4th grade onward. I've been on good teams, bad teams, state championship teams, winless teams, the whole nine yards. Every team has a goal that they know they can realistically attain and they judge their success by that measure. If they all aimed for a championship they would depress themselves and quit because of the improbability. I'm a Wofford booster, and the appeal of booster programs isn't just the product on the field, but supporting academic scholarships, among other things. What's more, the fact that we have dozens of FBS and FCS programs who sell tens of thousands of tickets every game, in spite of many of them not winning or having no hope of winning a championship falsifies the "championships" hypothesis.

Even more so, the fact that HBCU teams have the best attendance when none of them have won a national title, and to the best of my understanding a handful of teams dominate the conference race decade-to-decade further falsifies your "opinion." For instance, the FCS program that regularly has the highest attendance in South Carolina isn't Wofford or Furman, the teams with the most playoff wins and socon championships in the last decade, but the Citadel and South Carolina State. Part of that is the alumni base being bigger, but you can find other examples.

The appeal of sports isn't just championships. In basketball, championship games are like 3% of the season. In college football, it's like 15%, if you play a conference championship game. If all that mattered were championships, we would have boosters maxing out on donations, earmarked for facilities and coaching salaries, and not showing up until the championship game, but we don't. The appeal of sports is the moments. You can have a moment on a mediocre team, but people won't stick around to appreciate it. In the FCS, this is the condition for 60-70% of the teams. They're looking for their moment, and it doesn't need to be a championship. As a matter of fact, it quite literally can't be a championship first.

The championships help, no doubt, but what most of the FCS struggles with is lack of relevance to the people they need support from (Alumni and townies) because they're either not big enough or not successful enough. There's a reason why attendance is higher at the schools that are flagship universities in smaller, rural states, while there are plenty of sparsely-attended private school teams with strong tradition (Villanova, Wofford, Furman, Richmond, Colgate, etc). Meanwhile, there are lots of directional state universities in rural areas that are also seeing attendance plummet in spite of fielding good or decent teams (Western Illinois?).

Long story short, there's a lot of reasons people come to football games, and championships or even championship potential is only one among many others.

As for the institutions and players, playing college football is as much about getting/providing an education and playing the sport they love than winning a championship. Go to 95% of all recruits' house, and winning championships isn't the only thing they look at.

Programs exist and players play, on a human level, for human needs that aren't just about winning championships and that's why these institutions continue to promote these programs, provided they're financially solvent.

[uni88]

Its obvious that all you are doing is running your mouth while thinking your opinion is fact. Just like most of your postings. But then again you do like to hear yourself talk. And please you dont need to tell us that you are a communications major etc etc etc. xrotatehxxblahxxblahx

Again---your opinion isnt fact.

You may ask how do I know this?

Ive been involved as a player in multiple organized sports from the 4th grade all the way till after college. Since that time Ive been involved with numerous alumni associations, fund raising arms and booster clubs all which are dedicated to their teams playing at a high level and winning championships.
This isnt T-ball where participation ribbons rule the day.

So again you are wrong.

"Your opinion isnt fact" either.

They're opinions, neither of you is "wrong."

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Bisonoline]

One of the differences between you and me is that I base my opinions on fact and I don't inflate my anecdotal experience to the entire world without some hard data to support it (The most annoying guy with the least awareness on this board, who pulls for the team that's won 7 championships in the last 8 years thinks it's all about championships. How novel!). When someone presents me evidence that falsifies my position, I change my opinion. The same cannot be said of you.

You're not the only one who's been involved with multiple organized sports from the 4th grade onward. I've been on good teams, bad teams, state championship teams, winless teams, the whole nine yards. Every team has a goal that they know they can realistically attain and they judge their success by that measure. If they all aimed for a championship they would depress themselves and quit because of the improbability. I'm a Wofford booster, and the appeal of booster programs isn't just the product on the field, but supporting academic scholarships, among other things. What's more, the fact that we have dozens of FBS and FCS programs who sell tens of thousands of tickets every game, in spite of many of them not winning or having no hope of winning a championship falsifies the "championships" hypothesis.

Even more so, the fact that HBCU teams have the best attendance when none of them have won a national title, and to the best of my understanding a handful of teams dominate the conference race decade-to-decade further falsifies your "opinion." For instance, the FCS program that regularly has the highest attendance in South Carolina isn't Wofford or Furman, the teams with the most playoff wins and socon championships in the last decade, but the Citadel and South Carolina State. Part of that is the alumni base being bigger, but you can find other examples.

The appeal of sports isn't just championships. In basketball, championship games are like 3% of the season. In college football, it's like 15%, if you play a conference championship game. If all that mattered were championships, we would have boosters maxing out on donations, earmarked for facilities and coaching salaries, and not showing up until the championship game, but we don't. The appeal of sports is the moments. You can have a moment on a mediocre team, but people won't stick around to appreciate it. In the FCS, this is the condition for 60-70% of the teams. They're looking for their moment, and it doesn't need to be a championship. As a matter of fact, it quite literally can't be a championship first.

The championships help, no doubt, but what most of the FCS struggles with is lack of relevance to the people they need support from (Alumni and townies) because they're either not big enough or not successful enough. There's a reason why attendance is higher at the schools that are flagship universities in smaller, rural states, while there are plenty of sparsely-attended private school teams with strong tradition (Villanova, Wofford, Furman, Richmond, Colgate, etc). Meanwhile, there are lots of directional state universities in rural areas that are also seeing attendance plummet in spite of fielding good or decent teams (Western Illinois?).

Long story short, there's a lot of reasons people come to football games, and championships or even championship potential is only one among many others.

As for the institutions and players, playing college football is as much about getting/providing an education and playing the sport they love than winning a championship. Go to 95% of all recruits' house, and winning championships isn't the only thing they look at.

Programs exist and players play, on a human level, for human needs that aren't just about winning championships and that's why these institutions continue to promote these programs, provided they're financially solvent.


After wading through your over winded response the bottom line of why people compete is to win. They dont compete to lose. Fact.

[Panther88]

"Your opinion isnt fact" either.

They're opinions, neither of you is "wrong."

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Both are correct but Mr Terrier does bring up an interesting fact. Look at the fall 2018 attendance #s for 1 and 2 respectively inclusive of neutral site games.



1. Southwestern Athletic 10 49 746,760 15,240 1,546
2. Missouri Valley Football 10 61 601,697 9,864 -833

<the "10" is the total number of teams in each conference>


#1 is not a playoff participant and played 12 less games yet still had well over 145K+ more fans. #1's fans have substantiated their position, as a non-participant in the playoffs and "national championship" tourney; hence #1 leading in divisional attendance, excepting one year, since the division former I-AA/current FCS came to fruition.

[Bisonoline]

Both are correct but Mr Terrier does bring up an interesting fact. Look at the fall 2018 attendance #s for 1 and 2 respectively inclusive of neutral site games.



#1 is not a playoff participant and played 12 less games yet still had well over 145K+ more fans. #1's fans have substantiated their position, as a non-participant in the playoffs and "national championship" tourney; hence #1 leading in divisional attendance, excepting one year, since the division former I-AA/current FCS came to fruition.

One must also remember that #1 has it's own championship/bowl game and how do you get there?

[Reign of Terrier]

"Your opinion isnt fact" either.

They're opinions, neither of you is "wrong."

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Opinions are based on facts, and if your opinion is not based on fact, it's a bad opinion, worth less consideration. If your opinion is based on wrong facts (falsehoods), then your opinion is wrong.

I could go a little deeper with the distinction between facts and value judgments (I was also a philosophy major;)) but I don't want to bore you guys further.


After wading through your over winded response the bottom line of why people compete is to win. They dont compete to lose. Fact.

That's a separate claim than "every team competes to win a championship." Because they don't.

I agree, teams compete to win, fans show up to games hoping or expecting to win, boosters contribute money to the programs because they want to win.

But that's much different than saying "sports are all about championships"


One must also remember that #1 has it's own championship/bowl game and how do you get there?

I can concede that my original claim that teams don't play the game to compete for championships (generally) is a little too strong here, so let me modify it to reflect my position: teams don't compete at the FCS level to win the national title. Then again, it's a lot easier to win a conference title. Most teams have done it at least once. If you look at teams' tenure of playing the game and winning a conference championship, even the worst teams have a baseline probability of 5% or so of doing it, based solely on doing it once before. But with the exception of NDSU, if you look at any other team in the subdivision, that number is like 30%, which is still less likely (for examples Wofford has 6 socon championships in the last 20ish years, including 4 in the last decade, which is better than most teams)

I will edit my original post for clarity sake (congrats on the small win!), but I still stand by the general original statement: Winning the national title is not the primary motive for most teams and fans at the FCS level

[uni88]

After wading through your over winded response the bottom line of why people compete is to win. They dont compete to lose. Fact.Nobody competes to lose but there are a lot of reasons to compete besides winning.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Panther88]

One must also remember that #1 has it's own championship/bowl game and how do you get there?

Gotta' compete to play and win in order to be in. The drive is still a championship, very true.

Both of you are spot on.

[Bisonoline]

Nobody competes to lose but there are a lot of reasons to compete besides winning.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

True. You learn many of lifes lessons like commitment, responsibility, teamwork, perseverance etc etc etc. . These are all the byproduct of competing. Not the other way around.

[Bisonoline]

Opinions are based on facts, and if your opinion is not based on fact, it's a bad opinion, worth less consideration. If your opinion is based on wrong facts (falsehoods), then your opinion is wrong.

I could go a little deeper with the distinction between facts and value judgments (I was also a philosophy major;)) but I don't want to bore you guys further.



That's a separate claim than "every team competes to win a championship." Because they don't.

I agree, teams compete to win, fans show up to games hoping or expecting to win, boosters contribute money to the programs because they want to win.

But that's much different than saying "sports are all about championships"



I can concede that my original claim that teams don't play the game to compete for championships (generally) is a little too strong here, so let me modify it to reflect my position: teams don't compete at the FCS level to win the national title. Then again, it's a lot easier to win a conference title. Most teams have done it at least once. If you look at teams' tenure of playing the game and winning a conference championship, even the worst teams have a baseline probability of 5% or so of doing it, based solely on doing it once before. But with the exception of NDSU, if you look at any other team in the subdivision, that number is like 30%, which is still less likely (for examples Wofford has 6 socon championships in the last 20ish years, including 4 in the last decade, which is better than most teams)

I will edit my original post for clarity sake (congrats on the small win!), but I still stand by the general original statement: Winning the national title is not the primary motive for most teams and fans at the FCS level

You moved the goal post and now its National titles where as before you also said conference titles. Conference titles-championships are always a goal regardless if they dont have a realistic chance to win a national title.

[Reign of Terrier]

You moved the goal post and now its National titles where as before you also said conference titles. Conference titles-championships are always a goal regardless if they dont have a realistic chance to win a national title.

It's not moving the goal post, it's being more specific. My point still stands if we're talking about raw probability, albeit not as strongly. Put another way, there's a strong case that teams don't play for national titles. There's a strong case that most teams don't play for conference title purposes either, it's just not as strong. I can defend both claims, but my original claim was in the spirit of the former. I will defend the latter here:

Outside of 4 teams that I have on the top of my head (NDSU, JSU, SHSU, EWU), I'm pretty sure no team has more than 4 conference championships in the last decade. That's a 40% chance if you're a good team and not those 4 teams. It gets even worse if you take out co-championships. Very few conferences have out-right conference championships every year. Since 2010, the socon has had 4 and they're all different teams. The chances of any team getting an outright championship may be relatively high (30-40%) but the chances are that they will be any one randomly, not herded by a single team (App State in the late 2000s, NDSU today, etc) are much lower.

So, if you're anyone but those 4 teams, you're more likely to not win a conference title. If you do, you'll probably share it (which IMO kind of diminishes the prestige of it, but that's just me).

Put another way, your chances of winning a national title at the FCS level may be <5%, but for many of these schools have a similar probability of winning an outright conference championship. It may be a higher chance for one to win a shared title, but in doing so, you're basically conceding that losses are expected (which invalidates your point). Even then, you still have a greater chance (outside of like 4 teams) of not winning a conference title than winning one. For many schools nowadays, even sharing the title is unlikely, yet they soldier on.

Play a game: go through all the teams on wikipedia. Count up how many overall and outright conference titles they've won, and divide it by the years they've played in that conference. If the percentage is greater than 50%, than obviously the fans and players who play do it for the championships! (hooray!), but if it isn't, it's not.

[knit35]

Rom is a terrible baseball player.

Agreed but so are the Sisko's

[Go Green]

Agreed but so are the Sisko's

Perhaps.

But to their credit, they were the only people on the station that gave a **** about baseball. :)

[Bisonoline]

It's not moving the goal post, it's being more specific. My point still stands if we're talking about raw probability, albeit not as strongly. Put another way, there's a strong case that teams don't play for national titles. There's a strong case that most teams don't play for conference title purposes either, it's just not as strong. I can defend both claims, but my original claim was in the spirit of the former. I will defend the latter here:

Outside of 4 teams that I have on the top of my head (NDSU, JSU, SHSU, EWU), I'm pretty sure no team has more than 4 conference championships in the last decade. That's a 40% chance if you're a good team and not those 4 teams. It gets even worse if you take out co-championships. Very few conferences have out-right conference championships every year. Since 2010, the socon has had 4 and they're all different teams. The chances of any team getting an outright championship may be relatively high (30-40%) but the chances are that they will be any one randomly, not herded by a single team (App State in the late 2000s, NDSU today, etc) are much lower.

So, if you're anyone but those 4 teams, you're more likely to not win a conference title. If you do, you'll probably share it (which IMO kind of diminishes the prestige of it, but that's just me).

Put another way, your chances of winning a national title at the FCS level may be <5%, but for many of these schools have a similar probability of winning an outright conference championship. It may be a higher chance for one to win a shared title, but in doing so, you're basically conceding that losses are expected (which invalidates your point). Even then, you still have a greater chance (outside of like 4 teams) of not winning a conference title than winning one. For many schools nowadays, even sharing the title is unlikely, yet they soldier on.

Play a game: go through all the teams on wikipedia. Count up how many overall and outright conference titles they've won, and divide it by the years they've played in that conference. If the percentage is greater than 50%, than obviously the fans and players who play do it for the championships! (hooray!), but if it isn't, it's not.


xblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahx

You will never get it.

It makes no difference what the probability a team has in winning a championship for them to have the attitude to compete for one.

Read the above again!!!!

But as I said----you will never get it. You are so wound up trying to defend your false premise (because thats what you do) you cant see past your own ignorance.

[knit35]

Perhaps.

But to their credit, they were the only people on the station that gave a **** about baseball. :)

True, I feel like Work had an outside chance at being a good platoon power hitter.

[TheKingpin28]

Agreed but so are the Sisko's

That's what happens when meatballs are on the menu.

[ASU33]

Our attendance has sucked by our standards because our team has sucked. We averaged around 14k last year but the game against Jackson State at home last year may as well should've been a Jackson State home game because they accounted for at least 14k of the 19k announced.

[Ivytalk]

xblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahx

You will never get it.

It makes no difference what the probability a team has in winning a championship for them to have the attitude to compete for one.

Read the above again!!!!

But as I said----you will never get it. You are so wound up trying to defend your false premise (because thats what you do) you cant see past your own ignorance.
Well, that escalated quickly. Maybe we should dispatch you to resolve the Iran crisis, BisonoBolton.xcoffeex

[caribbeanhen]

maybe in a few years they will count virtual attendance..... instead of the video boards playing replays, they will show fans at sports bars and home watching games online so the players won't feel so lonely.......

anyway, I would be interesting to know how many people are watching specific games online

[Bisonoline]

Well, that escalated quickly. Maybe we should dispatch you to resolve the Iran crisis, BisonoBolton.xcoffeex

Nukem

[TheKingpin28]

Nukem

I always thought building a wall around the Middle East and letting them off each other would work best as they seem to have been enjoying doing that for the last 10,000 years.

[Bisonoline]

I always thought building a wall around the Middle East and letting them off each other would work best as they seem to have been enjoying doing that for the last 10,000 years.

Theyre animals.

[DFW HOYA]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there.

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.

[GAD]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there.

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.
Not just Jackson State most of our conference is just like that

[Reign of Terrier]

xblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahx

You will never get it.

It makes no difference what the probability a team has in winning a championship for them to have the attitude to compete for one.

Read the above again!!!!

But as I said----you will never get it. You are so wound up trying to defend your false premise (because thats what you do) you cant see past your own ignorance.


Well, that escalated quickly. Maybe we should dispatch you to resolve the Iran crisis, BisonoBolton.xcoffeex

Yeah, he's pretty predictable, he gets bored and angry easily, it's kind of sad. I was actually being somewhat charitable and nuanced in my response and this is what I get. It's NBD, he hangs himself with his own rope, I just feel the need to leave this comment to reiterate that 1) this is his normal behavior 2) everyone thinks it's weird.

[Reign of Terrier]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there.

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.

that's interesting. Got a source for it? I'd like to look more into it.

[Panther88]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there.

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.

I think more rationalization is required to substantiate why one specific playoff game a few years ago garnered only 374 <corrected> attendees lol xlolx . The SWAC has no dog in this rancid hunt. We're doing just fine continuing to use our own formula for attendance success.

[Bisonoline]

Yeah, he's pretty predictable, he gets bored and angry easily, it's kind of sad. I was actually being somewhat charitable and nuanced in my response and this is what I get. It's NBD, he hangs himself with his own rope, I just feel the need to leave this comment to reiterate that 1) this is his normal behavior 2) everyone thinks it's weird.

xcrazyx

[Sader87]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.

Interesting point but why would say FCS schools like the aforementioned Princestone, Harvard, Holy Cross, Lehigh etc which routinely drew crowds of 10K (and often much more) in the 1980s have lost "affinity" with this generation?

[walliver]

Most current FCS schools are either private or directional public schools.

Private schools struggle to attract local fans without direct ties to the school. These schools are often seen as elitists, or occasionally fundamentalists, and struggle with local support. In addition, as many of these schools seek to expand their geographic recruiting base, large numbers of alumni now live far from campus.
The directional or regional publics may get some local interest, but generally operate in the shadow of the big boys.
Most FCS schools which can overcome these obstacles and bring in more than 25K move on. The HBCU's hang around because there really isn't anywhere to go, and traditional rivals will outdraw the directional publics in the Sun Belt and MAC.
Before widespread television, the privates and regionals were often the only way average fans could see a college football game. In the 1980's, when the NCAA lost its television monopoly. The rich got richer and everyone else's attendance fell.

[DFW HOYA]

that's interesting. Got a source for it? I'd like to look more into it.

NCAA stat book, 1995:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com./sports/images/iaa_95.jpg

[Seawolf97]

One of the biggest factors in college football is the word "affinity". It's why people walk around with Alabama t-shirts that haven't stepped foot in the state, or where a Notre Dame cap doesn't signify an alumnus in good standing. There are people who have attended Delaware games for a lifetime that never went there.

The schools which have seen declines in attendance can look to a lack of affinity around its program as a direct antecedent to those numbers. Do people really have an affinity for Princeton football that they did a generation or two ago? Clearly not. But a school like Jackson State has strong affinity despite not being a contender for the playoffs -- last year JSU was 5-5 but averaged nearly 25,000 a game.

This is a problem across the subdivision. In 1995, 41 of 119 schools had at least 10,000 a game in attendance. In 2018, just 20.
I tend to agree with this . I would say about half the fans at a SBU game never went there . Not that we are world beaters in attendance but a considerable fan base are just locals who support the program . Basketball is the same situation .

[Sader87]

Holy Cross once had a large 'subway alumni" fanbase in Greatah Worcester for football but it has literally died off and figuratively "died off" for most of the reasons stated here ovah the last 30 years.

Even with a lot of success moving forward, I doubt HC will gain many non-alum fans back in today's world.

[ASU33]

NCAA stat book, 1995:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com./sports/images/iaa_95.jpg

That 34k average by Jackson State was SICK! I remember they came to Birmingham to play Alabama A&M Labor Day weekend right after Alabama played the day before and Alabama fans were blown away at the amount of Jackson State RVs that showed up on that Friday.

[PaladinFan]

Holy Cross once had a large 'subway alumni" fanbase in Greatah Worcester for football but it has literally died off and figuratively "died off" for most of the reasons stated here ovah the last 30 years.

Even with a lot of success moving forward, I doubt HC will gain many non-alum fans back in today's world.

Add to that the changes in the college football power structure.

Furman is a similar size to Holy Cross and is 20 miles or so from Clemson. Hard to carve out a niche in the shadow of a premier college program with athletic revenues on par with a medium sized national corporation.

[Reign of Terrier]

I would give something for Wofford to average 12k+ people (like, really 12k+, Wofford says we average 7k, but I really think it's only 4k) in attendance.

I don't know what that is, but I'd give it.

[ST_Lawson]

I would give something for Wofford to average 12k+ people (like, really 12k+, Wofford says we average 7k, but I really think it's only 4k) in attendance.

I don't know what that is, but I'd give it.

Same. At this point, I'd be happy with an actual crowd of 10k for our home games.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would give something for Wofford to average 12k+ people (like, really 12k+, Wofford says we average 7k, but I really think it's only 4k) in attendance.

I don't know what that is, but I'd give it.

I've honestly feel Lehigh has under-reported their attendance at times over the last 10 years. Sure there hasn't been the 12-14k that use to show up on a rather regular basis for big games but I've been very respectable crowds (definitely more than 1/2 full of 16k plus bank so 20k) listed at 7,700 to 8,200.

I'm not the only one who has questioned their attendance figures in recent years.....

[GAD]

That 34k average by Jackson State was SICK! I remember they came to Birmingham to play Alabama A&M Labor Day weekend right after Alabama played the day before and Alabama fans were blown away at the amount of Jackson State RVs that showed up on that Friday.
The SWAC was Rollin' at the time, we set so many attendance records some still stand today some may never be broken

[PaladinFan]

I would give something for Wofford to average 12k+ people (like, really 12k+, Wofford says we average 7k, but I really think it's only 4k) in attendance.

I don't know what that is, but I'd give it.

Furman was hitting those numbers for a period in the mid-2000s. This was from the 2004 Georgia Southern game in Greenville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxi2v3wzg8k. That's wall to wall folks in a 16,000 seat stadium.

What I'm interested to see is whether Furman can build the fanbase back with a return to consistent winning. Attendance took a nose dive with years of uninspiring play.

[JROCK]

Perhaps some FCS schools that have poor attendance numbers should consider dropping football. If no one is interested in seeing your product including alumni, fans and students, it's a waste of money.

[Sader87]

Perhaps some FCS schools that have poor attendance numbers should consider dropping football. If no one is interested in seeing your product including alumni, fans and students, it's a waste of money.

I think many FCS schools, particularly private ones, have football programs as more of a backdrop for alumni/donor events than anything else.

Holy Cross has 3 home games every year that basically fall undah this umbrella: Homecoming, President Council's (donors) Weekend and Parent's Weekend. No sport really provides a better backdrop for this than football imo

[Ivytalk]

I think many FCS schools, particularly private ones, have football programs as more of a backdrop for alumni/donor events than anything else.

Holy Cross has 3 home games every year that basically fall undah this umbrella: Homecoming, President Council's (donors) Weekend and Parent's Weekend. No sport really provides a better backdrop for this than football imo
Hahvahd has screwed the pooch on this one. Its Fall Reunion weekend in Octobah always seems to correspond with a Road football game. Bastahds!:(

[Catamount87]

There is one big factor that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, fan entertainment options. Today fans have more entertainment options than ever! It's everything from their kid's sports/school/whatever events, pro sports events, other amateur sports events, concerts, the latest blockbuster movie, streaming video...the list goes on and on!

All these options now competing for the limited dollars available for said entertainment events.

[CockyGeek]

Most of my friends and acquaintainces that I went to school with quit going to games as soon as they had kids or got married. Hour drive to the stadium now? Too long. Might see them at a Homecoming game once every five years because they were invited to a wedding afterwards or something.

Several people I know will drive five hours and spend $1000 to watch a Bama game, though.

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[JSUSoutherner]

Most of my friends and acquaintainces that I went to school with quit going to games as soon as they had kids or got married. Hour drive to the stadium now? Too long. Might see them at a Homecoming game once every five years because they were invited to a wedding afterwards or something.

Several people I know will drive five hours and spend $1000 to watch a Bama game, though.

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And I bet they aren't even Bama Alumni, right?

[uni88]

And I bet they aren't even Bama Alumni, right?But they have an "affinity" for Bama. It helps to be a flagship school.

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[Reign of Terrier]

But they have an "affinity" for Bama. It helps to be a flagship school.

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Yep. It's a market segment that FCS schools by definition cannot occupy, unless you're one of the Dakotas/Montanas/Montana/Idaho.

[uni88]

Yep. It's a market segment that FCS schools by definition cannot occupy, unless you're one of the Dakotas/Montanas/Montana/Idaho.I think Boise's the big dog in Idaho. I would include Delaware too.

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[CockyGeek]

And I bet they aren't even Bama Alumni, right?Of course not. My mom went to Georgia. I grew up a Georgia fan and we had season tickets when I was a kid. I still cheer for them, but I made JSU my priority the day I set foot on campus, which is rare, I guess.

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[Panther88]

Yep. It's a market segment that most FCS schools by definition cannot occupy, unless you're one of the Dakotas/Montanas/Montana/Idaho or a SWAC school.

FYP. Our #s have dropped off over the last 20 or so years. The SWAC (& MEAC/1 OVCer) boast 6 of the largest FCS vs FCS school battles annually:

SU vs JSU ~ > 38K+
PV vs GSU ~ > 50K+
SU vs GSU ~ > 65-70K+
FAMU vs BCU ~ > 70K+
AAMU vs AlaSU ~ > 70K+
JSU vs TnSU ~ > 40K+

Seems like there's a LOT of fan apathy vs affinity for most FCS schools. Not too many want to see or support the product most field.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Boise's the big dog in Idaho. I would include Delaware too.

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I forgot about Boise, but I imagine the vandals have a better shot than most FCS teams. What's predictive is whether or not the main state school is FBS/Power 5 or not. If not, there's going to be enthusiasm.


FYP. Our #s have dropped off over the last 20 or so years. The SWAC (& MEAC/1 OVCer) boast 6 of the largest FCS vs FCS school battles annually:

SU vs JSU ~ > 38K+
PV vs GSU ~ > 50K+
SU vs GSU ~ > 65-70K+
FAMU vs BCU ~ > 70K+
AAMU vs AlaSU ~ > 70K+
JSU vs TnSU ~ > 40K+

Seems like there's a LOT of fan apathy vs affinity for most FCS schools. Not too many want to see or support the product most field.

Good catch. To be honest, I consider the SWAC a separate thing from the FCS, not because of the quality of play on the field (I have 0 opinion on that), but because, like the Ivys, they just don't play anybody that much outside of their conference.

[Redbird 4th & short]

the solution is simple .. start selling liquor inside stadium, not just the suites. ISUr finally got this approved and will start this fall. We have pretty good tailgating for most games, and part of our attendance problem is our fans like to tailgate, and then stream the game or listen on radio from their tailgate spot. Unfortunately, our fan base is a also a "fair weather" bunch ... we draw well (13.6 capacity) if we get the 2 W's in our favor ... winning and weather .. otherwise, fan enthusiasm dwindles later in season.

We'll see if the liquor helps our attendance in 2019.

As for winning ... our QB Davis was invited to be a counselor at the Manning QB camps is Lousiana. From what I understand, acfter their done with the HS kids, the counselors get their own little private QB camp with the Mannings. It was only 4 days ... but we're talking about all of the Mannings .. Archie, Payton, Eli, and the 3rd brother who was supposedly the best football "athlete" by far. As Ive said many times, our 2019 chances hinge almost entirely on our pass game (that and stay reasonably healthy) .. if our pass game is simply solid & consistent, we will make some noise come playoff time.

If not, the liquor will only help. xnodx xdrunkyx