The Big South, 2007 Style

[GameTimeComethSoon]

Prediction time xcoffeex

From what I've read and recall from last year, Liberty SHOULD be the odds on favorite to win the league in 2007. I'd predict the Flames to finish at 7-4, 3-1 in the league (although playing Tusculum in the opener is a huge mistake. They tend to have a ton of FCS/FBS talent in that program and are a top 10 caliber DII. That one will be close, but LU wins).

With Liberty as the favorite, here are the contenders, in alphabetic order:

Charleston Southern: actually have a lot coming back, although they lost their two biggest guns (Collin un(Drafts)ed and Maurice Price). New quarterback's supposedly very athletic, so we'll see. Prediced finish: 5-6 overall, 1-3 conference.

Coastal Carolina: Don't expect them to be bad, but playoffs would be a stretch in 2007. Without Thigpen's clutch senior season they likely lose 4-5 ball games in 2006. I'd expect more running of the football. Hopefully the defense will be better. Predicted finish: 7-4, 2-2 conference.

Gardner-Webb: Very tough early schedule with two FBS teams and Appalachian State (which might as well be an FBS team in terms of ability) in the first five games. Should be 2-2 after the first four, however, with Jacksonville and A Peay sandwiched between the money games. IF they are able to take care of the football, an area that has killed the team the past two years, they should be able to come away with 6-7 wins. Getting Liberty at home in the finale is key. The Flames traditionally struggle in Spangler Stadium. Predicted finish: 6-5, 3-1 conference.

VMI: Lose a great one at quarterback, so we'll see how that position pans out. Good coach in place, but it's going to take him a few years to get things to the point of winning records, etc. They'll slip up and beat someone in conference in 2007. Predicted finish: 4-7, 1-3 conference.

[SuperJon]

I'll just say what I think about conference play:

LU: 4-0
CCU: 3-1 (loss at LU)
G-W 2-2 (loss at CCU, vs LU)
CSU: 1-3 (win over VMI)
VMI: 0-4

Liberty's quarterback situation is finally settled. Brock Smith is the guy. he came on at the end of the year big (see: Chuck South) and continues to improve (won our most improved player of the spring award). The players have had a year to learn the 3-4 system so the defense should be better than this past year. In my opinion, Zach Terrell is the best running back that we have and he's looked good this spring. Rashad Jennings is starting to learn that he's huge and can overpower everybody and doesn't have to dance in the backfield, and if he can get that under control, he'll be hard to stop. We have the most talent, the best facilities, and the most resources; it's time we started playing like it. There's no reason we shouldn't win the conference. Everyone has said for a year or two that we had a ton of talent and huge lines, but have never put that on the field.

Last year's motto was "a season to remember" and we had the biggest turnaround in Division I football (1-10 to 6-5). This year the motto is going from "good to great." If we perform to our abilities (that can be a big if...see: W&M, G-W) we should be a great team next year.

[GameTimeComethSoon]

You're an optimist. That's noble.

[OLDLCOACH111]

This years conference is going to be filled with talented teams, After months of looking at each teams arguments on who would win the league this scenario may unexpectedly happen even though I feel otherwise... WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

3 way tie

1. LU( loss to Gardner-Webb)
1.GW( loss to Coastal)
1.CC ( loss to LU )
2. CSU( loss to coastal, GW and LU)
3. VMI ( No win in conference games)



CAN THIS HAPPEN???

[GameTimeComethSoon]

I think G-W beats LU at home, G-W loses at Coastal, Coastal loses at LU and CSU. Two way tie.

[appfan2008]

i like coastal's chances to surprise some people even though they did lose a lot... i think they are building something special down there on the strand

[Sly Fox]

Obviously by the flag at the bottom of my post, I have a very biased opinion. I see us either 4-0 or 3-1. It wouldn't shock me to see a 3-way tie for the lead.

I think you folks are shortchanging VMI. I see them picking up a win or two this fall. Everybody in the league has our respect in Lynchburg. But this certainly feels like our year from my perspective.

[CCU97]

I think G-W beats LU at home, G-W loses at Coastal, Coastal loses at LU and CSU. Two way tie. I needed a laugh today....Coastal will not lose to CSU....They win one time by a fluke....they don't have the talent....Coastal will be much stronger than many of you think this year.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Coastal Carolina: Don't expect them to be bad, but playoffs would be a stretch in 2007. Without Thigpen's clutch senior season they likely lose 4-5 ball games in 2006. I'd expect more running of the football. Hopefully the defense will be better. Predicted finish: 7-4, 2-2 conference.

So which game will Coastal win? xrulesx

Home vs. GSU
Away at JMU
Away at Furman

[CCU97]

If I had to pick one of the the three I would say GSU....but all 3 will be tough games for all involved....

[SuperJon]

Coastal won't lose at CSU. It took a fluke play that will happen once in a million times for CSU to win two years ago.

As for me being an optimist, I've seen our guys in the weight room. I've seen our strength coach and his reputation speaks for itself (he coached for the Seahawks). Other schools can't fit their whole team in their weightroom to work out. LU can fit their whole team with space left over in ours. I've seen most of our spring practices this year.

Which game will CCU win next year of those three? I'd bet on either GSU (it's hard to win in Conway at night, especially if they're wearing black) or at JMU. Coach Matthews said on the radio last week that they've got some QB issues just like CCU does, so that game could be interesting.

I may have to try to pull double duty that game. I can't remember what week it is.

[zilla]

Like 97 stated, don't count the Chants out in 2007. We lost a TON of players, but we have some young guys that will hold their own. I actually think CCU's defense will be better this year. As for the offense, it all hinges on the O-line (lost 4 of 5 starters). If our line executes, we'll be a force on offense too. We'll be competitive. Furman, GSU, JMU, Liberty may beat us, but they won't blow us out. We'll be OK.

As for the Big South, I'd agree that Liberty is/should be the preseason favorite. Gardner-Webb will be better. It would not surprise me to see LU, G-W, or Coastal win the Big South. But if I had to predict right now:

1.) Liberty
2.) CCU
3.) Gardner-Webb
4 & 5.) CSU - VMI

I think the norm prediction is LU, G-W, & CCU anywhere in the top 3, with Chuck South & VMI at the bottom.

[citdog]

does anyone care about the little south?

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

If I had to pick one of the the three I would say GSU....but all 3 will be tough games for all involved....

Agreed! xthumbsupx Honestly, good luck on that stretch. I would bet on maybe one win, GSU, mostly because it is the home game.

Despite my comments about Coastal just not being as good this year (purely opinion based on tough losses of personnel and a leader like T. Thigpen), I really do applaud the AD there for making CCU show up so quickly on the national FCS scene due to scheduling the "big boys" of the FCS world so to speak. Of course, your coach and players have performed very well, but not all AD's are so willing to test their programs so early. Kudos to the CCU admin - they seem to get it! xthumbsupx

[GameTimeComethSoon]

Back to your hole, Citadel. You were 1-1 against the "little" south last year and won't play anybody else in the league other than Chuck South or VMI.

[citdog]

Back to your hole, Citadel. You were 1-1 against the "little" south last year and won't play anybody else in the league other than Chuck South or VMI.


back to your hole! WE WOULD WIN YOUR LEAGUE EVERY YEAR! WHO WOULD WE LOSE TO? cOASTAL? I DON'T THINK SO.

[Libertine]

You wouldn't have won it last year. As I recall, you weren't even the best team in Charleston last year.

[appfan2008]

If I had to pick one of the the three I would say GSU....but all 3 will be tough games for all involved....
of course that is the only correct answer... because that is the only game they have a chance in and i still wouldnt be picking them even in that one... i think they could go 3-1 or 4-0 in the big south and lose all three of those!

[citdog]

You wouldn't have won it last year. As I recall, you weren't even the best team in Charleston last year.

but we would beat the **** out of you!

[SuperJon]

That's funny.

[citdog]

That's funny.

and true

[PantherRob82]

Good info on the Big South. Looks like an open race. Seems like there are always 2-3 teams who could win it.

[citdog]

Good info on the Big South. Looks like an open race. Seems like there are always 2-3 teams who could win it.

yawn

[Sly Fox]

The Citadel looking down their noses at the Big South. xlolx

Perhaps Citdog hasn't looked at his own less than stellar squad lately. We'd love to be able to pad our schedule with El Cid. But alas ...

[Seawolf97]

I knew I would like this conference!

[citdog]

The Citadel looking down their noses at the Big South. xlolx

Perhaps Citdog hasn't looked at his own less than stellar squad lately. We'd love to be able to pad our schedule with El Cid. But alas ...


we'd wipe the floor up with your squad! there isn't a team in the little south we would lose to. CSU last season was an aberration. we will be back to beating them by 4 or 5 td's this season.

[SuperJon]

So that's why you're scared to play Coastal?

[justsaying]

we'd wipe the floor up with your squad! there isn't a team in the little south we would lose to. CSU last season was an aberration. we will be back to beating them by 4 or 5 td's this season.


The Citadel HA HA Haxlolx

Weren't you guys 4-7 in 05 and like 3-7 or something in 04.. you guy had one winning season last year and you wanna talk junk.. I'm Justsaying you wouldn't last in the Big south...


The only teams you beat last year were Western Carolina 2-9 VMI 1-10 Chattanooga 3-8 Elon 5-6 and Georgia southern 3-8 no teams with winning records. Combined 14-41

The big south would hurt your pride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[citdog]

So that's why you're scared to play Coastal?

ccu plays in an inferior conference to The Citadel and therefore MUST play any games with us in General Johnson Hagood, CSA Stadium. Just like CSU, of the same conference. We will go to VMI only because of our long association with them in the SoCon and the unique nature of our institutions. Scared of the Beach Chickens? Citadel Men were not afraid of Lincoln, the Kaiser, Hitler, Tojo, Giap, or huessien but are afraid of a chicken with a set of balls on its chin? i don't think so.

[justsaying]

oops My bad, that is not even a winning season is itxlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[citdog]

oops My bad, that is not even a winning season is itxlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

if we would have played liberty and coastal carolina instead of Texas A@m and pitt it would have been. this season with only 1 bcs game we will be 10-1 or 9-2, 8-3 qt the worst and a playoff berth

[SuperJon]

ccu plays in an inferior conference to The Citadel and therefore MUST play any games with us in General Johnson Hagood, CSA Stadium. Just like CSU, of the same conference. We will go to VMI only because of our long association with them in the SoCon and the unique nature of our institutions. Scared of the Beach Chickens? Citadel Men were not afraid of Lincoln, the Kaiser, Hitler, Tojo, Giap, or huessien but are afraid of a chicken with a set of balls on its chin? i don't think so.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[justsaying]

The Citadel HA HA Haxlolx

Weren't you guys 4-7 in 05 and like 3-7 or something in 04.. you guy had one winning season last year and you wanna talk junk.. I'm Justsaying you wouldn't last in the Big south...


The only teams you beat last year were Western Carolina 2-9 VMI 1-10 Chattanooga 3-8 Elon 5-6 and Georgia southern 3-8 no teams with winning records. Combined 14-41

The big south would hurt your pride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said earlier citdog... your wins weren't even quality!!!!!!!!

[citdog]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

have you heard your illustrious president of liberty Bible College open his big fat mouth lately?

[SuperJon]

Yea, me and him talked about the Yankees and A-Rod the other day. He's a huge Yankees fan.

[citdog]

Yea, me and him talked about the Yankees and A-Rod the other day. He's a huge Yankees fan.

did he call A-rod an illegal immigrant?

[Sly Fox]

The only one in this thread spouting racism has a dog in his avatar and a clearly revisionist view of history.

I love when someone who is a bottom feeder in a conference uses their league as proof of their superiority. xlolx

[citdog]

The only one in this thread spouting racism has a dog in his avatar and a clearly revisionist view of history.

I love when someone who is a bottom feeder in a conference uses their league as proof of their superiority. xlolx

no it is EVERYONE ELSE that has a revisionist view of the conflict called "the late unpleasantness" here in the Holy City. I am unreconstructed and believe that the SOUTH WAS WITHIN HER RIGHTS to quit the Union that she joined of her own free will when she wanted. As far as racisim goes i don't know what you are talking about.

[Sly Fox]

I stand corrected, it was in the other thread:


long island guidos

Ring a bell? Very classy.

[citdog]

I stand corrected, it was in the other thread:



Ring a bell? Very classy.

guido a racist comment? lighten up, i love all things italian! oil slicks, lube jobs, etc

[kicker]

yawn

if big south talk is boring you citmutt then why bother reading or responding to the thread? xcoolx

[GaSouthern]

cause what else is a dog to do when it's not sniffing butt? :)

[justsaying]

if big south talk is boring you citmutt then why bother reading or responding to the thread? xcoolx

Because he can"t hang in the Socon thread.. He would be sitting at the kids tablexlolx

[Dabnus Brickey]

Gosh, citdog must be right...he's corrected all of us. I did go to a Citadel game last year when they beat VMI. Although, VMI's cheerleaders kicked those cadets butts. Its all over YouTube.

CCU will win the Big South this year. Liberty can't hang with our speed. We're faster than last year.

[SuperJon]

So are we.

It'll be a good game. The past two years have been decided by a combined 5 points if I'm not mistaken. No one plays Coastal closer than LU.

[Mr. C]

About time this thread got back to talking about football. Citdog, go eat a bowl of Puppy Chow and let us discuss the Big South.

By all indications, Liberty should continue its improvement this year and would be my preseason favorite. They have a solid running game to build around. I like Gardner-Webb to challenge, because the Bulldogs had some good young talent last season. Steve Patton is too good a coach to keep spinning his wheels with mediocrity. I don't understand why every year people underestimate Charleston Southern. Yes, the Bucs lost their best two offensive players, but I think they will be in the thick of the race again, like they have been the past two years. I see Coastal Carolina being somewhere around .500 this year. The Chants are always going to be tough to beat at home, but in an improving, competititve league, I think they will lose a few, too. CCU had GREAT receivers (not just Simpson), but needs the development of a new QB and the OL. There were some major losses on defense, too. I think I would expect CCU to be back towards the top in 2008, with more experience. VMI will be well-coached (this, BTW, is a great league for coaches) and improved, but I don't know how many wins you will see from the improvement. But I see a lot of upsets, a lot of home wins and the league champion having at least one conference loss.

[vmifan]

Prediction time xcoffeex



VMI: Lose a great one at quarterback, so we'll see how that position pans out. Good coach in place, but it's going to take him a few years to get things to the point of winning records, etc. They'll slip up and beat someone in conference in 2007. Predicted finish: 4-7, 1-3 conference.

Rumor has it that the great one at quarterback is coming back, so while Reid may be a couple of years from getting his team skill set in place, the QB position should be OK.

[SuperJon]

Most people in the know know that VMI is getting their quarterback back. However, from a sheer numbers perspective, they just don't have the bodies to compete the entire year.

Someone on FlameFans made a great point about G-W. This is what he said:


Yeah, they return nearly everybody. So what? They weren't that good last year and, unlike us or VMI, they didn't show improvement as the season progressed. Yes, they beat us here but I place that loss squarely on the shoulders of our defensive players. That was the worst effort I've seen in a long time. G-W had multiple turnovers in every game on their schedule except for against us. Between Jacksonville and Glenville, G-W turned the ball over 9 times, for crying out loud. G-W was the "Towson game" for our defense if you will.

Second, I know everybody talks about Flagler and how talented he is and blah blah blah. Well, Flagler played out of the slot all year and that means he only gets free if teams respect the outside receivers. Do you know who those guys were? Gaines and Alston, both seniors and both gone. Gaines was arguably the most important player on that team.

Defensively, G-W got killed on the ground. Coastal, Wofford, CSU and UT-Martin all blew G-W out and they did it with the run game. If we hadn't completely crapped the bed in the second half and VMI's defense had been made up of something other than PeeWee soccer players, the Bulldogs would have lost those going away, too. How any player on that defense let alone that D-line got the Big South Defensive POY is beyond me.

The end of the season is where you look to measure growth on a young team and to see if a team is coming together. To me, it's telling that not only did G-W not win in the month of November last year but they got blown out by an average of 20 points, twice at home.

Like I said, I'm more concerned about us in this game than them.

[justsaying]

Super Jon Quote
How any player on that defense let alone that D-line got the Big South Defensive POY is beyond me.



Lets see Lead Conference D-lineman in tackles, tackles for loss, forced fumbles and sacks. It also helps if you are 6'6 275 pound NFL prospect

[citdog]

cause what else is a dog to do when it's not sniffing butt? :)

humping your wife's?










leg?

[Lapper]

the strength of this year's Coastal squad will be the same as the 2nd or maybe 3rd year squad which means we will still end up on top. sorry guys :)

[Lapper]

PS: VMI will be tied for 2nd with LU. Coach Ross always has something up his sleeve.

[citdog]

PS: VMI will be tied for 2nd with LU. Coach Ross always has something up his sleeve.

VMI SUCKS!

[Lapper]

VMI SUCKS!

Did the Citadel "suck" when Bobby Ross was there?

[citdog]

Did the Citadel "suck" when Bobby Ross was there?

no, we didn't! Stump mitchell helped a bit too! Bobby is NOT the Head Coach for the V@gina Military Institute! You do know that don't you lapper?

[SuperJon]

VMI will give people problems because of their style of play. However, by the end of the season, they are going to be beaten up and, unless they get a ton of freshmen in, they don't have the bodies to hold up all season.

[citdog]

VMI will give people problems because of their style of play. However, by the end of the season, they are going to be beaten up and, unless they get a ton of freshmen in, they don't have the bodies to hold up all season.

they are still all beat up from the drubbing the 'Dogs gave them the last week of the season!

[g-webb1994]

My view (conference record only)

Coastal 4-0
G-W 2-2 (G-W beats Liberty in finale)
Liberty 2-2
CSU 1-3 (beats VMI)
VMI 1-3 (only conf. win vs. G-W)


The VMI game is a trap for my boys. After back to back road games the prior two weeks at Appy and Wofford, we will be physically wore out, thus making the trip up to Lexington very difficult IMO.

Like I said in another post, I wish our off date was later than 9/15. I look for G-W to end up with an overall record of 5-6, beating Sav State, AP, and Jax, losing to Appy, Wofford, Mississippi State and Ohio on the road.

IMO, Coastal ends up 8-3 overall, and on the playoff bubble, a win versus Furman or GSU may get them in.

[Thumper250]

G-W's not losing at VMI. Ball security has been an issue with the team's struggles the past three years. I'm told that has been corrected. They finish 6-5 probably, maybe 7-4 with an upset mixed in somewhere.

[Thumper250]

If the media guide online is correct, Liberty hasn't won in Boiling Springs since the 1970s.

[SuperJon]

Liberty hasn't done a lot of things in the last few years. Nobody's going to deny that.

If Coach Rocco can take us from 1-10 to 6-5 with the exact same players, I don't see why we can't get better this year. We have the best strength coach in the conference, our coach has coached at the highest level, and I just see us being very good. Our coaching staff is harping on us going from a "good" team to a "great" team. That's our goal for this year. Coach Rocco has yet to do anything wrong, and until he does, I'm going to completely trust him.

[CCU97]

Liberty hasn't done a lot of things in the last few years. Nobody's going to deny that.

If Coach Rocco can take us from 1-10 to 6-5 with the exact same players, I don't see why we can't get better this year. We have the best strength coach in the conference, our coach has coached at the highest level, and I just see us being very good. Our coaching staff is harping on us going from a "good" team to a "great" team. That's our goal for this year. Coach Rocco has yet to do anything wrong, and until he does, I'm going to completely trust him.

Then based on this logic...Coastal will be #1 in the conference....They haven't done anything wrong and have history of winning the conference...so until they lose it...I'll completely trust them! Sorry SJ...couldn't resist!xsmiley_wix

[SuperJon]

Did you see what I put on the Coastal board? I said that I have a hard time not putting CCU #1 since they have been for the past 3 years. I said that it's pure homer on my part putting LU up there.

[windwalker]

cause what else is a dog to do when it's not sniffing butt? :)
Now that is funny!!!!xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[BigApp]

VMI SUCKS!

http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Stage/8595/mange.jpg

[Libertine]

Rumor has it that the great one at quarterback is coming back, so while Reid may be a couple of years from getting his team skill set in place, the QB position should be OK.

The 'great one' in question was Jonathan Wilson. He ain't coming back.

[The Gadfly]

I think VMI will do better this year as well. I think Bobboy Ross' two pennies will help . . . whomever's coaching now. I don't think they will be #2 though.

1 = Coastal

2 = G-Dubb

3 = Liberty and VMI

5 = The North Charleston Baptist Commune

[bjtheflamesfan]

they are still all beat up from the drubbing the 'Dogs gave them the last week of the season!
I think he's just bitter because Liberty had a winning season in their first year with a new coach and they languished under .500. If you guys were so confident that you would run all over LU, why didn't you man up and schedule them OOC?

[SuperJon]

Oh God, not more of this.

[citdog]

I think he's just bitter because Liberty had a winning season in their first year with a new coach and they languished under .500. If you guys were so confident that you would run all over LU, why didn't you man up and schedule them OOC?


who did you play again? NO ONE!Get back to your bible class and prayer meetings and leave the football to REAL COLLEGES!

[bjtheflamesfan]

Well at least when we played an FBS school last year we scored in double digits (heck in the second half we were even with them) Go on dreaming about your visions of grandeur and when you have a winning season again get back to the rest of the sane population of this board

[citdog]

Well at least when we played an FBS school last year we scored in double digits (heck in the second half we were even with them) Go on dreaming about your visions of grandeur and when you have a winning season again get back to the rest of the sane population of this board


have you ever defeated an FBS team? Have you ever won ANYTHING? At least we have been to the mountaintop, get back to me when you play in a real conference and your president isn't an idiot.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Actaully yes we have...Eastern Michigan 1989 (on the road) I'll grant you we haven't won anything (all those gosh darn years as an independent with no conference affiliation in football). I still would rather you instead of looking your nose down at Liberty, give some credit where credit is due for the job Coach Rocco did in only one year on the job.

[citdog]

Actaully yes we have...Eastern Michigan 1989 (on the road) I'll grant you we haven't won anything (all those gosh darn years as an independent with no conference affiliation in football). I still would rather you instead of looking your nose down at Liberty, give some credit where credit is due for the job Coach Rocco did in only one year on the job.


Coach Linguini did an excellent job last season, but the tree falling in the forest with no one around tale comes to mind.

[Sly Fox]

Don't feed the skunks, BJ. He's long established his lack of rational thinking on this board years ago.

Oh yeah, Jeff davis wasn't a whiny wuss who ran from Richmond at the first sight of Union troops. He was a great leader. xlolx

[citdog]

Don't feed the skunks, BJ. He's long established his lack of rational thinking on this board years ago.

Oh yeah, Jeff davis wasn't a whiny wuss who ran from Richmond at the first sight of Union troops. He was a great leader. xlolx



don't feed the foxes. they have great big sharp teeth and no balls!


PRESIDENT DAVIS LEFT OUR CAPITOL WHEN GENERAL LEE SAID HE SHOULD HAVE. I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE! PRESIDENT DAVIS WAS A GREAT MAN AND AN EXCELLENT OFFICER BEFORE GOING INTO POLITICS.

[The Gadfly]

don't feed the foxes. they have great big sharp teeth and no balls!


PRESIDENT DAVIS LEFT OUR CAPITOL WHEN GENERAL LEE SAID HE SHOULD HAVE. I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE! PRESIDENT DAVIS WAS A GREAT MAN AND AN EXCELLENT OFFICER BEFORE GOING INTO POLITICS.

Wasn't Jeff Davis found in drag when caught? xeyebrowx

[Libertine]

have you ever defeated an FBS team? Have you ever won ANYTHING? At least we have been to the mountaintop, get back to me when you play in a real conference and your president isn't an idiot.

What mountaintop?! Did El Cid win an imaginary national championship on your Xbox or something?

[citdog]

Wasn't Jeff Davis found in drag when caught? xeyebrowx




that story has been debunked by the commander of the
forces which captured our President. and was made up at the time to discredit our President.

[citdog]

What mountaintop?! Did El Cid win an imaginary national championship on your Xbox or something?



no we finished the regular season in 1992 ranked #1 in the country. go back to your King James Version and make some natives Christians against their will your type are good at that!

[bjtheflamesfan]

That's pretty nice, but you haven't reached the top of the mountain bro...you may have finished the regular season #1 but you couldn't make it count when it mattered (in the playoffs as Marshall won the national championship that year or did you leave that part out in your history books)

[citdog]

That's pretty nice, but you haven't reached the top of the mountain bro...you may have finished the regular season #1 but you couldn't make it count when it mattered (in the playoffs as Marshall won the national championship that year or did you leave that part out in your history books)


I REMEMBER WHO WON THE SOUTHERN CONFERENCE!

[CCU97]

As many will tell you the winner of a conference doesn't really matter unless they win the national championship....in 50 years...nobody will remember that Coastal won it's 3rd Big South Conference title in a row last year....they will just remember that App. St. won the national title....all that a conference championship does is give you internal brag rights for a year...the rest of the world could care less....

[citdog]

As many will tell you the winner of a conference doesn't really matter unless they win the national championship....in 50 years...nobody will remember that Coastal won it's 3rd Big South Conference title in a row last year....they will just remember that App. St. won the national title....all that a conference championship does is give you internal brag rights for a year...the rest of the world could care less....

WHEN YOU ONLY HAVE TWO YOU TEND TO REALLY REMEMBER THEM!

[bjtheflamesfan]

The Citadel folks may remember them but really the rest of the world does not care...no matter how much you say it with your all caps and stuff, all the folks will remember about you guys in 1992 is that Youngstown State ran you guys out of the stadium on their way to the national championship game

[citdog]

The Citadel folks may remember them but really the rest of the world does not care...no matter how much you say it with your all caps and stuff, all the folks will remember about you guys in 1992 is that Youngstown State ran you guys out of the stadium on their way to the national championship game


and that jerry falwell was a wacko nut job then too

[bjtheflamesfan]

You know if all you are gonna do is dodge and use ad hominem attacks then you really should not be here because every time somebody offers up a perfectly logical point, all you do is stonewall and make personal attacks.

[bigred]

WHEN YOU ONLY HAVE TWO YOU TEND TO REALLY REMEMBER THEM!

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

[Libertine]

we finished the regular season in 1992 ranked #1 in the country.

And you finished that season ranked where?

A #1 ranking in the regular season is not a mountaintop. That's more of a grassy knoll which was just high enough from which to see your next 14 seasons get gunned down in bloody fashion.

Admit it, Citdog. You have a shrine to Jack Douglas and Charlie Taaffe in your basement, don't you?

[citdog]

You know if all you are gonna do is dodge and use ad hominem attacks then you really should not be here because every time somebody offers up a perfectly logical point, all you do is stonewall and make personal attacks..


i think you must have me confused with someone else.xsmiley_wix

[citdog]

Admit it, Citdog. You have a shrine to Jack Douglas and Charlie Taaffe in your basement, don't you?



I sure do, i watch Jack scoring on 4th and goal with :22 left to play against the Gamecocks weekly 38-35 chicken fans!, and also the biggest upset in the history of College Football when the '92 club beat Arkansas. I drink a beer each night for Charlie since he seemed to love the frosty cold adult beverage so much!

[ATrain]

Citdog has made this thread quite amusing...

[citdog]

Citdog has made this thread quite amusing...


just doing my duty!

[Sly Fox]

no we finished the regular season in 1992 ranked #1 in the country. go back to your King James Version and make some natives Christians against their will your type are good at that!

What language was that?

[citdog]

What language was that?



the queens english, fox. just the queens english

[CSUBUCDAD]

Mr. C thank you for being the one person who actually pays attention to the facts. Drafts and Price did not make up the whole freakin CSU team last year and just because they are gone does not mean we go back to being the whipping post of the Big South. One of the signs of a bad loser is one that will not admit he was out played. Calling the CSU win over CCU in 2005 and the Dogs last year flukes is catamount to complete disrepect for Jay Mills and the job he is doing turning that program around. Give props where they are due guys and admit when you were beat and stop calling every loss to the Bucs a fluke.

[Mr. C]

Considering that the CSU program was one of the absolute worst in I-AA/FCS before Jay Mills arrived, how can you not give him credit for turning things around? Not too many teams have won more games than Charleston Southern in the past two years and the Bucs have also played for TWO straight league championships. One of the most intriguing things about the Big South is the fact that all of the teams are so competitive with each other (something I wrote about in my preseason preview article last summer). But despite the competitiveness, there are a lot of folks around the league that just routinely dismiss a couple of the other teams. If you have CSU on the verge of collapse for losing Drafts and Price, why not think the same of CCU for losing Thigpen and Perkins?

[Mr. C]

I sure do, i watch Jack scoring on 4th and goal with :22 left to play against the Gamecocks weekly 38-35 chicken fans!, and also the biggest upset in the history of College Football when the '92 club beat Arkansas. I drink a beer each night for Charlie since he seemed to love the frosty cold adult beverage so much!
Do you really have tapes of those classic Citadel games? I remember seeing in-progress highlights on ABC the day The Citadel beat Arkansas. And I share your view that the victory over the Hogs was the biggest in I-AA history.

[Mr. C]

The Citadel folks may remember them but really the rest of the world does not care...no matter how much you say it with your all caps and stuff, all the folks will remember about you guys in 1992 is that Youngstown State ran you guys out of the stadium on their way to the national championship game
Youngstown State ran a lot of people out of stadiums in those days. It was no disgrace for a team to lose to the Penguins, then or now.

[rokamortis]

Considering that the CSU program was one of the absolute worst in I-AA/FCS before Jay Mills arrived, how can you not give him credit for turning things around? Not too many teams have won more games than Charleston Southern in the past two years and the Bucs have also played for TWO straight league championships. One of the most intriguing things about the Big South is the fact that all of the teams are so competitive with each other (something I wrote about in my preseason preview article last summer). But despite the competitiveness, there are a lot of folks around the league that just routinely dismiss a couple of the other teams. If you have CSU on the verge of collapse for losing Drafts and Price, why not think the same of CCU for losing Thigpen and Perkins?

I think CSU has done great, but let's compare apples to apples. In 2005 you, rightfully so, said our 2004 schedule was weak. You also said that we would have trouble going anywhere close to a 10-1 record in 2005. In the same regard, CSU needs to be viewed with the same skepticism until they can prove that they can win with an improved schedule.

Beating sub-DI teams is not impressive, or at least it wasn't in 2004.

[Mr. C]

No question that CSU has played schedules that have been weak, but the Bucs have gradually been toughening up their schedules, just not quite as quickly as CCU has done. If CSU had won the Big South last season, I would have still had my questions if the Bucs were worthy of the playoffs, just like I did for San Diego (which played a far worse schedule still). But the Bucs have won some big games against their Big South competitors when they have played them. The point I was making is that CSU has improved its program and rightfully deserves the respect YOU give them. Just wish everybody didn't immediately right the Bucs off, just because they lost a couple of good players.

[citdog]

Do you really have tapes of those classic Citadel games? I remember seeing in-progress highlights on ABC the day The Citadel beat Arkansas. And I share your view that the victory over the Hogs was the biggest in I-AA history.


I sure do Mr. C would you like a copy?

[The Gadfly]

What are the "Black Sheep Conference vs SoCon" match-ups for next years?

[bjtheflamesfan]

In no particular order:

Coastal Carolina vs Georgia Southern Sept 15
Coastal Carolina vs Furman Oct 6
Charleston Southern vs The Citadel Sept 1 (That one would be of note to citdog and CSUBUCDAD)
Charleston Southern vs Wofford Sept 8
VMI vs. Citadel Nov 17
Liberty vs Elon September 22
Gardner Webb vs Appalachian State Oct 6
Gardner Webb vs Wofford Oct 13
Presbyterian vs Western Carolina September 22
Presbyterian vs Furman Sept 1

[citdog]

Charleston Southern vs The Citadel Sept 1 (That one would be of note to citdog and CSUBUCDAD)

VMI vs. Citadel Nov 17




The Citadel wins both of these by about 4td's MARK MY WORDS

[CCU97]

No question that CSU has played schedules that have been weak, but the Bucs have gradually been toughening up their schedules, just not quite as quickly as CCU has done. If CSU had won the Big South last season, I would have still had my questions if the Bucs were worthy of the playoffs, just like I did for San Diego (which played a far worse schedule still). But the Bucs have won some big games against their Big South competitors when they have played them. The point I was making is that CSU has improved its program and rightfully deserves the respect YOU give them. Just wish everybody didn't immediately right the Bucs off, just because they lost a couple of good players.

Mr. C,

You will never see me right the Bucs off...but I will more often than not write them off anytime they play CCU.xsmiley_wix Sorry I couldn't resist.... But I do agree with you on them having a stronger schedule gradually. But CSU hasn't had enough Big South big game wins to leave much of an impression on me yet....sure they won the game vs. CCU 2 years ago...but that was more of CCU losing the game than CSU winning.

[Mr. C]

Still, CSU got to take home the trophy, whether you think it was a fluke, or not. I guess they had enough big wins in the Big South to earn a title.

[g-webb1994]

Both CSU and Liberty improving help to deepen the conference (even though I despise Falwell), although IMO CSU is going to have much more trouble this season recovering from their losses to graduation as opposed to Coastal.

I just see Coastal running the table in the conference again this season. The LU-GW matchup at Spangler in the finale will likely be for second place.

[SuperJon]

I still don't think Coastal fans or people in general realize how hard losing Thigpen is going to hurt Coastal. He's the only quarterback to ever play at Coastal (other than Ren for 3 games the first year). All of the backups have seen VERY little time in game situations, and you can't always count on freshmen coming in. Losing a quarterback who's drafted is going to hurt much more than people like to realize.

[rokamortis]

I still don't think Coastal fans or people in general realize how hard losing Thigpen is going to hurt Coastal. He's the only quarterback to ever play at Coastal (other than Ren for 3 games the first year). All of the backups have seen VERY little time in game situations, and you can't always count on freshmen coming in. Losing a quarterback who's drafted is going to hurt much more than people like to realize.

With a new line and QB, I am not bold enough to predict that there will not be any dropoff. We do have some experienced leaders coming back, namely Simpson and Tolbert.

Our defense has to be improved over last year, if it isn't then we are in trouble.

[SoccerSmells]

Not only do people in the Coastal circle of fans not realize just how good Tyler Thigpen was in 2006, people nationally just aren't that aware of the difference he made.

Unreal numbers, first of all, in a new offense. Poise, toughness and leadership, etc. He was the Michael Jordan of that team. When they needed a play, he either got the ball to the right people or did it himself.

With his size, arm and deceptive mobility, not to mention the overlooked "make up/character", I think he could hang around in the NFL for a little while.

I also think that it's going to be very difficult to find that "heartbeat" guy for the Chants so quickly after his departure. Not knocking the new CCU QB, whoever it'll be ... it's got nothing to do with talent. Thigpen was a difference maker in so many other ways from what I hear (and saw a few times).

[CCU97]

Still, CSU got to take home the trophy, whether you think it was a fluke, or not. I guess they had enough big wins in the Big South to earn a title.

No just one big loss by CCU....and both teams took home the trophy.....Coastal has choked in several key big games.....to be honest Coastal has only won a few big games....JMU was the first one....Wofford....Furman....other than that they have won games they should have...lost games they should have won...lost games they should have lost.....and played good games vs. SC State.....no Big South team has proven much...we made it to one playoff game as a league....we are all making strides.....and yes CSU is getting better....Mills is a good coach....but the loss of Draft and Price could have a more drastic set back if they don't recruit players of the same or better quality....I haven't heard much about their new key players....we'll see come the fall.....What game other than 1 game 2 years ago has CSU won(fluke or otherwise) that they shouldn't have won? Winning the ones you are supposed to win doesn't show much improvement...just shows you are playing up to expectations!

[SuperJon]

With a new line and QB, I am not bold enough to predict that there will not be any dropoff. We do have some experienced leaders coming back, namely Simpson and Tolbert.

Our defense has to be improved over last year, if it isn't then we are in trouble.

I agree with everything you said. I just think it's crazy to read some CCU posters saying they will be even better this year than last year. Simpson and Tolbert may be leaders, but unless Simpson can throw the ball 30 yards to himself (and I wouldn't put it past him) he still will have to rely on an unexperienced quarterback.

If Coastal still ran the Pat Hall offense and ran the ball 90% of the time (I'm exaggerating...I think) then it would fall more on the OL's shoulders than the QB's, but with Coastal's offense, the QB is going to play a HUGE role in whether or not Coastal makes it 4 straight or not.

[CCU97]

SJ,

You of all people know that Coastal's O will transform to what the other team allows them to do...if that means run the ball 90% they will....if it means 50/50 they will.....Coach Bennett will see what players he has and use what works best....they have an idea of what they hope they can do and will go from that....but I imagine that with a new QB...they will run the ball a little more than last year. I don't see CCU improving over last year....but I can see them an LU battling for the championship.

[The Gadfly]

I can see hints of JaMarcus Russell in Will Richardson: powerful arm, big, and tough to bring down. But Jamie Childers is the closest to Thigpen's abilities . . . maybe better. So I'm not worried at all that Thig is gone.

[SuperJon]

Yea, Richardson is like Russell, except he's as mobile as a statue.

Childers is a freshman.

Neither has exprience. Keep drinking that kool-aid.

[SoCon48]

Not only do people in the Coastal circle of fans not realize just how good Tyler Thigpen was in 2006, people nationally just aren't that aware of the difference he made.

Unreal numbers, first of all, in a new offense. Poise, toughness and leadership, etc. He was the Michael Jordan of that team. When they needed a play, he either got the ball to the right people or did it himself.

With his size, arm and deceptive mobility, not to mention the overlooked "make up/character", I think he could hang around in the NFL for a little while.

I also think that it's going to be very difficult to find that "heartbeat" guy for the Chants so quickly after his departure. Not knocking the new CCU QB, whoever it'll be ... it's got nothing to do with talent. Thigpen was a difference maker in so many other ways from what I hear (and saw a few times).

He sure looked good vs Big South and other teams. But being 217th overall doesn't make him a sure shot to stick very long. But you never know, with NFL coaching and grooming he could have a good career.

[The Gadfly]

Yea, Richardson is like Russell, except he's as mobile as a statue.

Childers is a freshman.

Neither has exprience. Keep drinking that kool-aid.

That's right, he's a freshman. Veeeeery good, TraitorJon. But he also has 2 years of experience @ a prep school where they send guys to high-end FBS programs, so yes he's got a little experience against some tough cookies. During the Teal/Black Game, he was the best at passing and rushing for all 4 quarterbacks. While watching Childers during that Spring game I started to think that, since he looks like he's at Thig's saaaaay junior level as a FRESHMAN, this guy's going to be amazing.

[The Gadfly]

Teal/Black Game

Childers, Jamie

Rushed = 5 for 46 yards / ave 9.2 / no losses

Passing = 3-4-0 / 84 yds / 1 TD / no sacks

Hell, even Sean Fortson did well . . .

Passing = 8-11-0 / 142 yds / 1 TD / no sacks

[SuperJon]

Ok, my question to you:

Was he that good, or was it on the same Coastal defense that gave up a crapload of points each game last year?

Spring games are good to gauge things, but it's hard to tell how a freshman is going to be in front of hostile crowds and in an actual game atmosphere.

[CCU97]

SJ....we have only played in front of two hostile crowds ever....GSU and App. St....and the only ones this year will be JMU and Furman.....sure a few fans cheering for the other team doesn't make it friendly but go to a GSU game in Statesboro and tell me they are anywhere close to that level at any Big South school as far as a hostile crowd....CCU included...

[SuperJon]

Nobody's saying anyone in the Big South is close to GSU or App. Liberty is harder to play at than you think. People in Coastal's administration has said that if the Coastal students had the spirit LU students did then Coastal would be impossible to play at. I'm not saying it's impossible to win at LU because it's not. However, playing against maybe 1000 of your own fans at a spring game when nothing really matters is a lot different than playing in front of 12,000 in an opponent's stadium when conference standings matter. That's one reason I didn't expect LU to win at Coastal last year. We had what was still an inexperienced QB trying to come into his own in front of 6000 people who wanted him to fail immensely.

To say that someone's going to step in and replace an All-American right out of prep school before he even plays a game is laughable. To say that he can hold his own and manage the game and give CCU a great shot to win is one thing, but to say he's going to be better than Thig before he even takes his first snap is silly.

[CID1990]

Nobody's saying anyone in the Big South is close to GSU or App. Liberty is harder to play at than you think. People in Coastal's administration has said that if the Coastal students had the spirit LU students did then Coastal would be impossible to play at. I'm not saying it's impossible to win at LU because it's not. However, playing against maybe 1000 of your own fans at a spring game when nothing really matters is a lot different than playing in front of 12,000 in an opponent's stadium when conference standings matter. That's one reason I didn't expect LU to win at Coastal last year. We had what was still an inexperienced QB trying to come into his own in front of 6000 people who wanted him to fail immensely.

To say that someone's going to step in and replace an All-American right out of prep school before he even plays a game is laughable. To say that he can hold his own and manage the game and give CCU a great shot to win is one thing, but to say he's going to be better than Thig before he even takes his first snap is silly.

You forgot to mention that Jesus is a liberty fan. Well, at least Jerry is a Liberty fan, and he has Jesus on the speed-dialer.

[SuperJon]

We do like Jesus here. There's not really a problem with that. Jesus doesn't play football though.

I love how every Citadel or VMI joke involves Falwell.

[CID1990]

We do like Jesus here. There's not really a problem with that. Jesus doesn't play football though.

I love how every Citadel or VMI joke involves Falwell.

Heh heh. Sorry, I like Jerry..... I just couldn't help myself.

[citdog]

We do like Jesus here. There's not really a problem with that. Jesus doesn't play football though.

I love how every Citadel or VMI joke involves Falwell.


that guy is just a putz, plain and simple

[SuperJon]

You and VMI must think that. You're more alike than you think. I'd almost say you're close to the exact same.

[citdog]

You and VMI must think that. You're more alike than you think. I'd almost say you're close to the exact same.



the whole WORLD thinks that about your President! We are NOTHING alike

[Sir William]

the whole WORLD thinks that about your President!

??

I'm looking forward to a defense of this absolutism.

[Sir William]

Waiting

[SuperJon]

the whole WORLD thinks that about your President! We are NOTHING alike

I just figured since we were stereotyping I'd put you two together.


If you knew anything about Jerry, other than his politics, you could think something different. I hate his politics but I like him.

[g-webb1994]

You lost him with the word absolutism, Sir William.xlolx

[citdog]

??

I'm looking forward to a defense of this absolutism.



OK, people who don't dance with rattlesnakes and drink rat poison in church KNOW that Jerry Falwell is an idiot!

[citdog]

I just figured since we were stereotyping I'd put you two together.


If you knew anything about Jerry, other than his politics, you could think something different. I hate his politics but I like him.


I heard POL POT was a swell guy too

[CCU97]

SJ....only one poster is even coming close to saying that a new QB will be as good as Thig...and that poster is only saying maybe....I think we all feel there will be a drop off at the QB position....but by the time we get around to playing at Liberty...whoever the QB is will have played at JMU and at Furman....I think they can handle the yelling and screaming they will get from the LU fans....at least at LU we can almost expect it to not be profanity filled yelling....not that JMU or Furman will do that either unless we win.....just saying...sure LU has a loud crowd....but they aren't all that hostile.....GSU is a hostile crowd....Winthrop is for basketball.....but LU is hard to be seen as a hostile crowd when for the most part you guys wish no ill will on the other team....us heathen(sp) schools on the other hand....we want to see the other team crushed, hurt and demoralized when we play them....j/k....ok...so some teams do....

[SuperJon]

You'd be surprised. There isn't profanity but it can be just as bad as other schools. You don't have to have drunken kids cussing every other word to make things hostile.

Ok, so we'll agree that the QB situation should be alright. He won't be as good as Thig but he's gonna do the job.

Next question: How do you replace 4 offensive linemen?

[CCU97]

well considering they rotated lots of players in last year to keep them fresh and we have some great recruits with more speed and power I don't see a huge drop off....I'll take a freshman that is much better in speed and power than a Sr. just because he knows the system and is undermaned.....it may be a slight drop off in the OOC but by the time conference time comes around any freshman that is playing won't be a freshman anymore....That is the thing about how the schedules are set up....we always play the conference games at the end....so the young guys will have plenty of time to learn the systems and know what to expect....I see the D being much stronger and faster than last year through out...the D line and LB position will be better than any you have ever seen at CCU....the DB all will be good....the K has been nailing long kicks all spring(yes not real games) but could be better than Hoke and he was clutch....I agree that you guys will be much improved as well and think it will come down to that game in Lynchburg to determine who wins the conference....I predict that the game will yet again be decided by less than 7....who wins...I have no clue yet....lets wait until the 3rd game we have played and I'll be more than happy to predict it then....

[SuperJon]

See, I don't mind reading stuff like that. That's intelligent, thought out, and actually makes sense. You make good points. That's a legitimate argument. That's all I was wanting. Something other than "Oh, these new guys are even better than the multi-time all conference members we just lost."

[CCU97]

you've never seen those words typed by me....only Gadfly and maybe Bob(not even sure on that one....) and Gad only said maybe(because he does have potiential to be better than Thigpen.) Tyler didn't play QB his senior year before coming to CCU.....he is just a hell of a QB. And any of the new guys if you look at where they are as freshmen will surely be ahead of Tyler his first year....just not where he was his Sr. year....but as a team I think we improved by adding speed and size....the things we have learned we needed if we wanted to play with App. St.

[bjtheflamesfan]

I heard POL POT was a swell guy too
Ok citdog comparing Jerry Falwell with one of the worst dictators in world history is absolutely the lowest thing you could possibly do. Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were responsible for the deaths of millions and MILLIONS of Cambodians during his regime. The Holocaust is probably the only thing that would exceed what Pol Pot did in the sheer magnitude of the loss of life. You my friend stepped WAY over the line with that statement

[BigApp]

...xtwocentsx

[The Gadfly]

I have to say that CitDog calling Falwell a Pol Pot is like telling Citdog that Moses was a nazi. xrotatehx I wonder if you would have been accepted to the pound if they knew your religion back then Citdawg?

As for our QB situation, as from the statistics I gave you and what I've seen first hand, I'm giving you an opinion. I do believe, if he doesn't get hurt, can keep his grades up, and dedicates himself, that yes, Jamie has a chance to be as good if not better than Thig. Thig was not all that great in his 1st two seasons, if you recall when you attended CCU, TraitorJon. Were even here when that happened? Anywho, I believe we will be fine at QB AND OL. I just hope they don't get rattled up in Lynchburg . . . xrolleyesx . . . :) . . . :o . . . xlolx xlolx xlolx . . . xlmaox . . .
:pumpuke:

[rokamortis]

We barely beat Liberty the last 2 years. I know they are hungry to knock us down a few pegs. Hopefully we can keep the streak going.

[citdog]

Ok citdog comparing Jerry Falwell with one of the worst dictators in world history is absolutely the lowest thing you could possibly do. Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were responsible for the deaths of millions and MILLIONS of Cambodians during his regime. The Holocaust is probably the only thing that would exceed what Pol Pot did in the sheer magnitude of the loss of life. You my friend stepped WAY over the line with that statement


comparing them? i didn't compare them, but as Harry Truman said "i guess every son of a bitch has one friend"

[CSU BUCS]

CSU beat VMI in 2004

That's a game the wasn't suppose to win.

Mills went for the two point conv.

to give the Bucs a 1 point lead with 26 sec left in the game.
fyi the two point play was also the same play that was ran against CCU in 2005 to score the TD at the end of the game.

That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play.

[The Gadfly]

CSU beat VMI in 2004

That's a game the wasn't suppose to win.

Mills went for the two point conv.

to give the Bucs a 1 point lead with 26 sec left in the game.
fyi the two point play was also the same play that was ran against CCU in 2005 to score the TD at the end of the game.

That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play.

xsmileyclapx Now you remember that as long as you can because it'll be your 1st and last time you win it. xthumbsupx

[SuperJon]

As for our QB situation, as from the statistics I gave you and what I've seen first hand, I'm giving you an opinion. I do believe, if he doesn't get hurt, can keep his grades up, and dedicates himself, that yes, Jamie has a chance to be as good if not better than Thig.

Ok, here's my question to that? Are you saying he will be better than freshman/sophomore Thigpen or senior Thigpen next year? I'm ok with saying, "In four years, he has the potential to be even better than Thigpen." That's fine with me. I have a problem with you saying he has the potential to be better than 2006 Thigpen in 2007. I'm just asking so I know which Thigpen you're saying he has the potential to be better than, next year.

[chantman]

CSU beat VMI in 2004

That's a game the wasn't suppose to win.

Mills went for the two point conv.

to give the Bucs a 1 point lead with 26 sec left in the game.
fyi the two point play was also the same play that was ran against CCU in 2005 to score the TD at the end of the game.

That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play.


Is that the year VMI went 0-11?

[CCU97]

CSU beat VMI in 2004

That's a game the wasn't suppose to win.

Mills went for the two point conv.

to give the Bucs a 1 point lead with 26 sec left in the game.
fyi the two point play was also the same play that was ran against CCU in 2005 to score the TD at the end of the game.

That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play.

Who doesn't beat VMI? If that is the only game you can come up with.....I'm sorry for your program. I think even Preby will have a good shot at beating VMI this year(not really)....but in most years they could....

[SuperJon]

Is that the year VMI went 0-11?

They beat 1-10. That was the same year LU went 1-10. LU lost on a missed field goal off of the uprights to VMI.

[Libertine]

Fact police:

In 2004, VMI did indeed go 0-11 and you really can't call it the year they went 0-fer b/c that's the second time the Keydets have pulled that off in the last decade. Liberty beat VMI 38-17 in Lexington that year as both Dre and Sam went for 100+.

In 2005, VMI went 3-8 with one of those victories being a 10-7 win in Lynchburg as the first of many FG attempts in that stadium that year went off the left goalpost.

[Libertine]

I heard POL POT was a swell guy too

Really? 'Cuz I heard that he was directly responsible for the deaths of 1-2 million people. I'm not sure how many Jerry's up to now but I'm going to guess that it's somewhere in the neighborhood of, oh, zero. I'll have to ask him to make sure.

On the other hand, the number of people killed during the American Civil War amounts to just under 1 million. Using your logic, I would guess that that makes Citadel cadets Haynsworth and Pickens just "adequately sociable".


xsmiley_wix I know I shouldn't bait the dog, but it's just so easy. And RU4GSU has been gone for so very long.

[SuperJon]

Fact police:

In 2004, VMI did indeed go 0-11 and you really can't call it the year they went 0-fer b/c that's the second time the Keydets have pulled that off in the last decade. Liberty beat VMI 38-17 in Lexington that year as both Dre and Sam went for 100+.

In 2005, VMI went 3-8 with one of those victories being a 10-7 win in Lynchburg as the first of many FG attempts in that stadium that year went off the left goalpost.

I'm dumb. You're my hero.

[The Gadfly]

Ok, here's my question to that? Are you saying he will be better than freshman/sophomore Thigpen or senior Thigpen next year? I'm ok with saying, "In four years, he has the potential to be even better than Thigpen." That's fine with me. I have a problem with you saying he has the potential to be better than 2006 Thigpen in 2007. I'm just asking so I know which Thigpen you're saying he has the potential to be better than, next year.

Do I reeeeeeaally have to answer that?

[SuperJon]

Hey Gadfly, a little off topic, but wanna see something cool?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6538/coastallv7.jpg

That's Coastal's webpage as of tonight. I haven't been a student there since December 6, 2005 yet I'm still on the front page.

[The Gadfly]

Hey Gadfly, a little off topic, but wanna see something cool?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6538/coastallv7.jpg

That's Coastal's webpage as of tonight. I haven't been a student there since December 6, 2005 yet I'm still on the front page.

Yes I know, you checkered board faced freak. ;) What's up with those haircuts? Looking at your pictures from Liberty last season it looks like they aren't feeding as well as we did.

They need to get you off of there, but then again you're not the only one on the web site who transferred elsewhere.

[SuperJon]

Hey, I'll take the "not feeding you as well" one as a compliment.

The cheerleading pictures that are on the front part are really old, I'm thinking the 2004 season.

[CCU97]

Heck they had the billboard on 501 with pictures from 1995 in 2001....a little slow to get new pictures up on their marketing materials.

[CID1990]

CSU beat VMI in 2004

That's a game the wasn't suppose to win.

Mills went for the two point conv.

to give the Bucs a 1 point lead with 26 sec left in the game.
fyi the two point play was also the same play that was ran against CCU in 2005 to score the TD at the end of the game.

That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play.

If that was your first conference win, how could it have also been your first conference championship..... unless the Big South consisted only of VMI and CSU?

[CCU97]

he stated that "That's a big play in CSU history................. first ever conf. win and first ever conf. championship.............. both off of the same play." Meaning they won their first conference game on this play and then turned around and used the same play against CCU in 05 for their first conference title...still don't have one out right...but hey it is CSU....

[The Gadfly]

Hey, I'll take the "not feeding you as well" one as a compliment.
The cheerleading pictures that are on the front part are really old, I'm thinking the 2004 season.

I meant it that way . . . . :D I have always said that our marketing dept was either asleep or non-existant. Hell, we are still having trouble with licensing agreements. I went by the same sport stores in the Grand Strand area 1 year later and they told me that Coastal is loosening the grip but not all the way. There was ONE sport store that had something "Coastal" being sold, AND THAT WAS TWO FREAKIN' LICENSE PLATES! One store had a whole wall of ASU crap. Sorta struck me odd xnutsx .

[Sly Fox]

Clearly CCU has its priorities in order. They may not be making any money through licensed mechandise, but by Golly they kept their fan message board from using any variations of their logos. xoopsx

As for CSU, they better hope they are better than last year because what we saw indicated a deep need for improvement to be competitive in the Big South this fall.

[bjtheflamesfan]

The way I figure it its a wide open race. Coastal has won or shared the last 3 conference titles so they are pretty much the champ until someone else wins it outright. Charleston Southern has shown that they can compete with anybody in the conference (we'll see if they can keep that up having lost their top receiver and QB and a few other parts), Gardner-Webb always does well in conference (heck they won the title the first 2 years the Big South had football) and of course Liberty has taken huge strides and with all the guys coming back that we do, the Flames will probably be preseason favorites. Presbyterian could go through some real growing pains in their first year in conference. I could see them and VMI fighting to stay out of the cellar this year

[SuperJon]

Presby is not a conference game this year.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Thanks for the correct SJ, For some reason I thought it was. BUt I think that VMI will probably bring up the rear again this season, but they may pick up a couple wins this year. This is how I see it breaking down:

Liberty 4-0
Coastal 3-1 (losing to Liberty)
Gardner Webb 2-2 (losses to Liberty and Coastal)
Charleston Southern 1-3 (losses to Liberty, Coastal and G-W)
VMI 0-4 (losses to the above 4 obviously, although I could see them flip flopping with CSU)

[MarkCCU]

i like coastal's chances to surprise some people even though they did lose a lot... i think they are building something special down there on the strand



I think G-W beats LU at home, G-W loses at Coastal, Coastal loses at LU and CSU. Two way tie.


Call me a homer, but I see Coastals only conference loss to Liberty. Charleston Southern is losing some big guns, just as CCU is. But we still have our play makers and a young QB who will go the distance much like Tyler did. THe odds and records are stacked agains Chuck South.

[Libertine]

I find it amazing that no one outside of greater North Charleston is taking CSU at all seriously this year. It's just mind-boggling that a team that has won 16 games in the last 2 years and finished tied for 1st and 2nd in the conference respectively is being completely written off due to the losses of two players and that everyone, myself included, is okay with that.
I'm trying. I really am. But, after the way they folded up at Liberty and Coastal, I just can't think of any compelling reason to expect anything out of the Bucs next year.

[ATrain]

Lets remember who those 16 games were against to

[bjtheflamesfan]

You have to remember Lib, that most of the CSU offense went through those two the last few years. The backup showed some flashed in the game at LU last year but I really do not know what to make of him now that he will be the everyday QB in the fall

[Libertine]

Did you guys think I was arguing with you? Look again.
I think CSU is as over-rated as anything directed by Quentin Tarantino at this point. But losing just two guys shouldn't have that effect. I feel like that if I don't take them seriously, it doesn't make sense considering what they've done the last two years. At the same time, however, I look at what they've got and who they bring back and there's just no way that they contend for the conference this year. It defies all norms of football logic.

And, yes, I know this may be going on someone's bulletin board right now. Go ahead, whoever you are. Rev yourself up. Get psyched. Do what you need to do. It won't help.

[rokamortis]

The tied for second argument kills me. It was a 3-way tie in a 5 team conference. Those teams were just as close to first place as they were to last place.

CSU sharing the conference title the year before was big though.

Really, my only problem with CSU is that they were not quite as good as they thought they were. If they can play a tougher schedule and still win, then more power to them.

[Ol Blue]

CSU will perform better than even they thought they had the potential to do. You guys aren't the only ones doubting them, they are doubting themselves.

The reason they will reach beyond common expectations is due to the effect that seasoned and experienced defenses have on the game of football.

[MarkCCU]

CSU will perform better than even they thought they had the potential to do. You guys aren't the only ones doubting them, they are doubting themselves.

The reason they will reach beyond common expectations is due to the effect that seasoned and experienced defenses have on the game of football.

And that's why they won't perform to thier upmost potential

[Libertine]

CSU will perform better than even they thought they had the potential to do. You guys aren't the only ones doubting them, they are doubting themselves.

The reason they will reach beyond common expectations is due to the effect that seasoned and experienced defenses have on the game of football.

That made no sense whatsoever. Forget the defense (assuming it even stays the same scheme since Barrows left). If the players are doubting themselves in May, they are D-O-N-E. August-November will just be a formality.

[Ol Blue]

Any team that loses their quaterback and star wide receiver has doubts about it's offensive capabilities. They are, after all, bright college students with deductive reasoning skills....( well. OK....maybe I went too far...) But anyway.....confidence can be faked, which is usually the tactic used to overcome doubts and fears.

A far better one though, is experience. And CSU has plenty of that on defense.


Which is why I say, they will outperform both our expectations of them and their own.

[SoccerSmells]

That experienced defense is said to be slower than molasses in spots. Maybe it's old age ;)

[vmifan]

Thanks for the correct SJ, For some reason I thought it was. BUt I think that VMI will probably bring up the rear again this season, but they may pick up a couple wins this year. This is how I see it breaking down:

Liberty 4-0
Coastal 3-1 (losing to Liberty)
Gardner Webb 2-2 (losses to Liberty and Coastal)
Charleston Southern 1-3 (losses to Liberty, Coastal and G-W)
VMI 0-4 (losses to the above 4 obviously, although I could see them flip flopping with CSU)
I think VMI is still a couple of years away from being a very good team. That said though, I would be disappointed if VMI doesn't beat CSU at home this year. During the last four years I recall that when the game was played in Charleston, VMI has lost at the very end while the games haven't been close in Lexington. All four conference games last year were decided by less than a touchdown. As VMI gets the skill set in place, it will be much more competitive.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Any team that loses their quaterback and star wide receiver has doubts about it's offensive capabilities. They are, after all, bright college students with deductive reasoning skills....( well. OK....maybe I went too far...) But anyway.....confidence can be faked, which is usually the tactic used to overcome doubts and fears.

A far better one though, is experience. And CSU has plenty of that on defense.


Which is why I say, they will outperform both our expectations of them and their own.
You can have experience in spades but when your defense allows over 100 yards per game rushing (108.8 to be exact) AND allows opponents to throw for almost 230 ypg (226.9 to be exact) and allowed 30 or more points 3 times (losing twice) your not gonna stop a lot of people. The reason CSU did so well up until the Liberty game is because the OFFENSE averaged 102.6 yards rushing and 260.3 yards passing per game and scored 27.3 points per game (led by a fine QB in Collin Drafts). What is worst is that these boys do not have confidence in themselves and anyone knows that when you don;t have confidence in yourselves, your not gonna win much (look at Liberty 2 years ago)

[rokamortis]

As VMI gets the skill set in place, it will be much more competitive.

Definitely. VMI could do some damage this year and in the near future.

[Libertine]

VMI could do some damage this year and in the near future.

In the near future, yes. This year, no. I love what Jim Reid is doing up there and I think he will turn it around but thing's are going to get worse before they get better in Lexington. That offense helped them stay in a lot of games last year but that lineup was paper-thin and they lost most of their key offensive personnel. Reid is doing very well at bringing in the guys and the sheer numbers of bodies they need for that program but it's going to be at least '08 before they see the results they're looking for.

[bjtheflamesfan]

We are going to have to revisit this when the players report in Mid-late July because really that is when you can get your best indicators of how a team is going to do. A lot can happen between the spring game and then.

[CSUBUCDAD]

You can have experience in spades but when your defense allows over 100 yards per game rushing (108.8 to be exact) AND allows opponents to throw for almost 230 ypg (226.9 to be exact) and allowed 30 or more points 3 times (losing twice) your not gonna stop a lot of people. The reason CSU did so well up until the Liberty game is because the OFFENSE averaged 102.6 yards rushing and 260.3 yards passing per game and scored 27.3 points per game (led by a fine QB in Collin Drafts). What is worst is that these boys do not have confidence in themselves and anyone knows that when you don;t have confidence in yourselves, your not gonna win much (look at Liberty 2 years ago)
With 9 returning starters, including 3 1st team all conference players, the defense for CSU will be significantly stronger this year. During the spring game the guy on defense that stood out to me was Jr DB Darius Jackson. He is currently listed as the #2 FS behind All Conference CJ Hirschman but he came up with some big hits and showed very good cover skills. Look for him to work his way into that secondary somewhere. Bottom line is that there is no way that the defense will give up those kind of numbers against conference foes this coming season.

[Libertine]

To be honest, I was completely unimpressed with Hirschmann when we went up against CSU in November. He did run that one punt back but the biggest hit he had all day was punching one of his own DB's in the head after the guy gave up a long touchdown catch to us.

[Linehawg]

Reid is doing very well at bringing in the guys and the sheer numbers of bodies they need for that program but it's going to be at least '08 before they see the results they're looking for.

I love optimism and I love supporting the program. But what I don't see is any evidence that any of this optimism is warranted. Football players at VMI, as opposed to other military institutions like the Citadel and West Point, are looked down upon by the faculty, staff, and Corps of cadets. They catch a rash of crap from everyone on a daily basis. They're derisively called "permits" because they get out of many military functions. The rosters are thin because the players a leaving in droves sensing that football is not taken seriously at VMI. Sure you can throw money at it but it takes more than that to "turn it around" and VMI's been trying to do that for thrity years without addressing the institutional barriers and impediments that prevent winning seasons. Reid will be gone in another two years without much of anything changing and a new coach will be hired to "turn it around" foolish enough to think he can actually make a difference where the long line of good coaches who failed before him couldn't. They just don't get it.

[vmifan]

I love optimism and I love supporting the program. But what I don't see is any evidence that any of this optimism is warranted. Football players at VMI, as opposed to other military institutions like the Citadel and West Point, are looked down upon by the faculty, staff, and Corps of cadets. They catch a rash of crap from everyone on a daily basis. They're derisively called "permits" because they get out of many military functions. The rosters are thin because the players a leaving in droves sensing that football is not taken seriously at VMI. Sure you can throw money at it but it takes more than that to "turn it around" and VMI's been trying to do that for thrity years without addressing the institutional barriers and impediments that prevent winning seasons. Reid will be gone in another two years without much of anything changing and a new coach will be hired to "turn it around" foolish enough to think he can actually make a difference where the long line of good coaches who failed before him couldn't. They just don't get it.

I spoke to Reid recently. He his optimistic that he can retain his players. His first recruiting year is virtually completely in tact. Sure it will be a couple more years, but Reid is doing a fine job. The corps also appreciates Reid's "embrace the process" theme. This theme and Reid's genuine approach to having the football players be as fully as possible participate in the corps activities has been a very positive development. Just as basketball and baseball are now seeing some real successes, football will be coming along also. The challenge with football is you need more bodies and you'd like to play 5th year redshirts, but this will take time. Yes, Reid is making a difference!

[Seawolf97]

I have been following this thread almost from the beginning. It has been real interesting. Hopefully there will be one like it next season when Stonybrook gets added to the mix. Keep it going!

[Linehawg]

I spoke to Reid recently. He his optimistic that he can retain his players. His first recruiting year is virtually completely in tact. Sure it will be a couple more years, but Reid is doing a fine job. The corps also appreciates Reid's "embrace the process" theme. This theme and Reid's genuine approach to having the football players be as fully as possible participate in the corps activities has been a very positive development. Just as basketball and baseball are now seeing some real successes, football will be coming along also. The challenge with football is you need more bodies and you'd like to play 5th year redshirts, but this will take time. Yes, Reid is making a difference!

Of course he's optimistic. They always are. He went with "Embrace The Process" because the school told him that they weren't going to change their ways so the players should just shut up, quit whining and "embrace" it. In short, they aren't going to change so the players have to. VMI has, as a result, decided to contnue their legacy and tradition of "losing with grace and pride" as a result because they will NEVER field a winning team at the D-1AA level with the athletes that this poor commitment to winning represents. Yes they need bodies but they can't attract the kind of athletes they need and they can't develop them to win with the institution constantly preventing them from become better players. If VMI doesn't drop to D-II within five years to win an occassional game I'd be shocked.

[Mr. C]

I love optimism and I love supporting the program. But what I don't see is any evidence that any of this optimism is warranted. Football players at VMI, as opposed to other military institutions like the Citadel and West Point, are looked down upon by the faculty, staff, and Corps of cadets. They catch a rash of crap from everyone on a daily basis. They're derisively called "permits" because they get out of many military functions. The rosters are thin because the players a leaving in droves sensing that football is not taken seriously at VMI. Sure you can throw money at it but it takes more than that to "turn it around" and VMI's been trying to do that for thrity years without addressing the institutional barriers and impediments that prevent winning seasons. Reid will be gone in another two years without much of anything changing and a new coach will be hired to "turn it around" foolish enough to think he can actually make a difference where the long line of good coaches who failed before him couldn't. They just don't get it.
Then maybe it is time to kick some buttocks from administrators on down and beginning changing such stupidity. If you want to win then start leaning on your school to do what is right. There is NO reason in the 21st Century that anyone deserves to be getting "crap" from anyone because they are athletes. If The Citadel, Navy and Air Force can field competitive teams, there is no reason that VMI can't. Maybe it starts with the head of the school. If he tolerates that kind of disrespectful stuff going on, then tell him he has to change and he has to implement change, or he is gone.

I happen to have a lot of faith in Jim Reid. He is a great guy and a fantastic coach. He also is a great guy to play a round of golf with. But if enough of you alums want change, you can make things change.

[Libertine]

Of course he's optimistic. They always are.

I can certainly understand your cynicism, 'hawg, but here's the difference between Reid and many of his predecessors: Reid is a really good coach. Enough so that I'm not quite sure how VMI landed him.

Also, his triple-option offense allows a much less athletic team to stay in games against much more athletic teams. I'm absolutely not saying that the Keydets are ever going to be a powerhouse but I do expect that they will be competitive during any given week*, which is much more than could have been said under the last several coaches.

* = Just not in '07.

[vmifan]

Of course he's optimistic. They always are. He went with "Embrace The Process" because the school told him that they weren't going to change their ways so the players should just shut up, quit whining and "embrace" it. In short, they aren't going to change so the players have to. VMI has, as a result, decided to contnue their legacy and tradition of "losing with grace and pride" as a result because they will NEVER field a winning team at the D-1AA level with the athletes that this poor commitment to winning represents. Yes they need bodies but they can't attract the kind of athletes they need and they can't develop them to win with the institution constantly preventing them from become better players. If VMI doesn't drop to D-II within five years to win an occassional game I'd be shocked.

prepare to be shocked

[Sir William]

Where have you gone, Bob Thalman?

A fine coach and a good man - had a little bit of success at VMI back in the late 70s/early 80s, as I recall. VMI has not been very good since about 1982. A real shame, too, b/c Lexington VA is a great place to be on an autumn Saturday afternoon.

I think Reid is the right man, and I hope he stays many years. Would love to see VMI win a few Big South titles.

[vmifan]

Then maybe it is time to kick some buttocks from administrators on down and beginning changing such stupidity. If you want to win then start leaning on your school to do what is right. There is NO reason in the 21st Century that anyone deserves to be getting "crap" from anyone because they are athletes. If The Citadel, Navy and Air Force can field competitive teams, there is no reason that VMI can't. Maybe it starts with the head of the school. If he tolerates that kind of disrespectful stuff going on, then tell him he has to change and he has to implement change, or he is gone.

I happen to have a lot of faith in Jim Reid. He is a great guy and a fantastic coach. He also is a great guy to play a round of golf with. But if enough of you alums want change, you can make things change.

I can tell you that the administration is running a very professional military school with a very professional ratline for first year cadets. IMO it is much more professional than Citadel (the academies don't have as tough a regimen as VMI or Citadel). The athletes are part of the corps, and sure, there are some that don't respect the athletes as much as they should, and there are many athletes that don't respect the rankers as much as they should, and there are some very smart academics that don't respect as much as they should the military or athletic types, but everyone at VMI is a little of all three (you have to be athletic, you have to be in the military corps 24/7, you have to work hard on academics to pass............there's nowhere to hide as a larger school....), but generally, the corps is a single body which works together and has a good if not great relationship........the football team is much more accepted than in the past because Reid has his players being leaders in the corps.
The problem with a lot of alumni is that they want a lot of success......we all do.......but there are challenges for military schools given the program....success doesn't come as easily as other "normal" schools, but it can come........look at basketball and baseball which are very competitive........football is next. Reid was the first head coach VMI hired since Thalman. We finally have a guy who knows what it really takes to win. And he loves what VMI stands for.

[CID1990]

Football players at VMI, as opposed to other military institutions like the Citadel and West Point, are looked down upon by the faculty, staff, and Corps of cadets.

The Citadel has had identical problems with this, but the issue is not nearly as bad at VMI or The Citadel as you might think. In a lot of cases, when an athlete decides to leave VMI or The Citadel, they are not going to go home to thsir families and friends and tell them that they just couldn't handle the system, or that they just weren't cut out for those schools. What they have a habit of doing is telling all those folks how badly they were mistreated. In other words, they place the blame somewhere else, and in the case of VMI or The Citadel, they have an easily believable excuse.

Rick Reilly of SI fell for this very thing back in 1992 when he wrote a really nasty article about The Citadel's athletic program. The actual athletes he wrote about were baseball players, but he painted the whole athletic program with the same brush. Athletes (you guys call them 'permits', we call them Corps Squad) were beaten, starved, and generally brutalized, according to Reilly and his poor little ex-Citadel baseball player who left the school. Never mind that a large number of athletes called the guy a crackpot who wasn't able to keep up. Ironically, the same issue where Reilly questioned whether The Citadel could ever field a competitive athletic team was also the same issue where SI picked Arkansas as their preseason #24. One week later, The Citadel's mistreated and beleaguered football team beat SI's cinderella on their own field. Now how in the world could that happen?

The point in all of this is that the mistreatment of athletes at the military schools is nothing more than a convenient excuse for underachievement. It is an easy excuse, and it is easily believable since only a few people know the real truth. True, we were tough on the athletes, but this came in the form of the occasional ribbing and nothing more. In return, the military system WAS watered down for these guys while their sport was in season. There was and always will be some smack talk between the regular Corps and the athletes, but it could never be considered less than friendly and in good humor overall.

[Libertine]

Trying to remember how old I was when I first realized that Rick Reilly was a hack.....oh, that's right. I was 12. What does that say about you when a middle-schooler can recognize you as a douchebag?

[vmifan]

The Citadel has had identical problems with this, but the issue is not nearly as bad at VMI or The Citadel as you might think. In a lot of cases, when an athlete decides to leave VMI or The Citadel, they are not going to go home to thsir families and friends and tell them that they just couldn't handle the system, or that they just weren't cut out for those schools. What they have a habit of doing is telling all those folks how badly they were mistreated. In other words, they place the blame somewhere else, and in the case of VMI or The Citadel, they have an easily believable excuse.

Rick Reilly of SI fell for this very thing back in 1992 when he wrote a really nasty article about The Citadel's athletic program. The actual athletes he wrote about were baseball players, but he painted the whole athletic program with the same brush. Athletes (you guys call them 'permits', we call them Corps Squad) were beaten, starved, and generally brutalized, according to Reilly and his poor little ex-Citadel baseball player who left the school. Never mind that a large number of athletes called the guy a crackpot who wasn't able to keep up. Ironically, the same issue where Reilly questioned whether The Citadel could ever field a competitive athletic team was also the same issue where SI picked Arkansas as their preseason #24. One week later, The Citadel's mistreated and beleaguered football team beat SI's cinderella on their own field. Now how in the world could that happen?

The point in all of this is that the mistreatment of athletes at the military schools is nothing more than a convenient excuse for underachievement. It is an easy excuse, and it is easily believable since only a few people know the real truth. True, we were tough on the athletes, but this came in the form of the occasional ribbing and nothing more. In return, the military system WAS watered down for these guys while their sport was in season. There was and always will be some smack talk between the regular Corps and the athletes, but it could never be considered less than friendly and in good humor overall.

It is times like these that I wish VMI and Citadel were in the same conference again. There is a lot in common between these two schools. And only these two schools' alumni can really understand the intricate and complicated inner workings of the relationships between the non athletes and athletes. While the athletes are working their tails off on the football field/basketball court, the rats/knobs are working their tails off in rat-training/knob training. But other than that, the experience is the same.
Moreover, I agree with your point about those that leave are generally not going home and saying, "I didn't want to do what was required". It is generally very easy to put blame back on the school, which can not defend itself due to privacy issues. But, enough of that. VMI needs to get its numbers up on football and bring in skill set to run the triple option. I saw Citadel last year in Charleston just kill VMI in first half, and Citadel has shown me that it is a rising program. Good to see that. Navy with its watered down schedule and running the triple option is competitive as is AF. VMI aspires to be next. Other than football, VMI has generally become competitive, football needs to be next.

[Linehawg]

Maybe you both actually believe what you're telling yourselves but the sad truth is that what you've just babbled back is the IMAGE of what you'd like yourselves to be, not the reality. Both are schools that put scholarship ahead of military ahead of sports. In short, an athlete (the kind you need to actually win) will never bother staying and tolerating such a low focus and priority. Football is different from any other sport. Believe what you will but VMI's long and ugly history of losing is certain to continue under any coach, any offense, and any mix of players unless the institution itself changes to create the actual conditions for winning. I see no evidence either is serious about this having alumni perfectly happy with an honorable lsoing tradition...although the Citadel may have the slight edge at this point. Maybe real beds and air conditioning at the Citadel are a better recruiting tool?

[Seawolf97]

xeyebrowx Just my 2 cents but I dont think VMI will be competitve with Navy or Air Force for quite sometime if at all.

[Tealblood]

I see VMI going non-scholly football in the near future

[vmifan]

xeyebrowx Just my 2 cents but I dont think VMI will be competitve with Navy or Air Force for quite sometime if at all.

VMI will not be competitive with these 2 in football because they're in different levels. But, in all other sports, VMI right in the mix and is very competitive at the same level.

[vmifan]

I see VMI going non-scholly football in the near future

this won't happen. VMI is raising about 3.5Mill this year in annual giving support for athletics. It just completed improvements to its 10,000 seat football stadium, completed new 1,400 seat baseball stadium, and will renovate totally the 5,500 seat basketball stadium. It has hired new coaches in almost every critical coaching slot. There is an emphasis on sports that hasn't been there in past 2 decades. When is CCU going to build its basketball stadium?

[vmifan]

Maybe you both actually believe what you're telling yourselves but the sad truth is that what you've just babbled back is the IMAGE of what you'd like yourselves to be, not the reality. Both are schools that put scholarship ahead of military ahead of sports. In short, an athlete (the kind you need to actually win) will never bother staying and tolerating such a low focus and priority. Football is different from any other sport. Believe what you will but VMI's long and ugly history of losing is certain to continue under any coach, any offense, and any mix of players unless the institution itself changes to create the actual conditions for winning. I see no evidence either is serious about this having alumni perfectly happy with an honorable lsoing tradition...although the Citadel may have the slight edge at this point. Maybe real beds and air conditioning at the Citadel are a better recruiting tool?

You have good points. VMI will maintain high standards in academics and it will always be a military school. That said, it will not attract or (even if it did attract some more pure athletes be able to retain all). This is a challenge for VMI, Citadel and the academies. Will the academies ever contend for the national title again in football........not likely (unless they bring back the draft). But, does that stop them from wanting to field a team? If you want to support a football school and one that can attract athletes which has a better chance to win national titles, then you're right, military schools are not where to look, and you should sever your ties with VMI and root for CCU or Liberty or ASU or Texas or OSU or Fla or Michigan.......there are a lot to choose from. But, if you wish to support VMI and what it stands, then do. The fund raising efforts suggest that there are many out there who appreciate the values and standards of this school that transcend just football talent.

[SuperJon]

will renovate totally the 5,500 seat basketball stadium.

I hope you're kidding. That's my favorite place to go to in the conference by-far.

[Tealblood]

The new arena is probably on hold for a while.

[vmifan]

I hope you're kidding. That's my favorite place to go to in the conference by-far.

Just new floor, spiff up the interior, no real structural changes, though I'd like to see some boxes in the top part of the arena. Should have the same great atmosphere. The Liberty-VMI basketball games have become quite the event.

[vmifan]

The new arena is probably on hold for a while.

I know this is a football forum, but congrats on winning the baseball championship. CCU has a #11 ranking in the nation I believe, and I wish y'all well in going far into the national championship series.

[SuperJon]

Just new floor, spiff up the interior, no real structural changes, though I'd like to see some boxes in the top part of the arena. Should have the same great atmosphere. The Liberty-VMI basketball games have become quite the event.

I was getting worried.

I actually came to the VMI/Mercer game last year. That's when I got my first experience there. Then the LU/VMI game this year was good. I got to sit first row behind our bench.

[CSUbucFan]

i dont see how you guys are still predicting ccu to finish in the top ahead of CSU, yea i see liberty at the top but come on CCU is losing what 35 seniors? come on be reasonable

[bjtheflamesfan]

For me its simple...Yes Coastal is losing a lot, but they are still the champs until someone knocks them off outright (realizing that they shared the title with CSU in 2005). Many see Liberty as being the team to knock them off the top of the mountain this year. CSU's offense largely depended on Maurice Price and Collin Drafts so with them graduating people are not sure where that production will now come from (and I realize that the defense has a fair number of returners for the Bucs as well)

[g-webb1994]

For me its simple...Yes Coastal is losing a lot, but they are still the champs until someone knocks them off outright (realizing that they shared the title with CSU in 2005). Many see Liberty as being the team to knock them off the top of the mountain this year. CSU's offense largely depended on Maurice Price and Collin Drafts so with them graduating people are not sure where that production will now come from (and I realize that the defense has a fair number of returners for the Bucs as well)

I still believe Coastal will run the table in the conference this year. I think my boys will have enough left in the tank to take LU out in the finale in Boiling Springs, assuming we learn to play defense at some point.xbangx

[CSUbucFan]

i know CSU is playing Hawaii what other big south schools are playing D-1 teams

[rokamortis]

i know CSU is playing Hawaii what other big south schools are playing D-1 teams

We all are playing D-I teams. Oh you mean FBS ...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Libertine]

Gardner-Webb:

9/1 at Ohio
9/22 at Mississippi St.

Liberty:

10/6 at Toledo

[Lapper]

I still believe Coastal will run the table in the conference this year. I think my boys will have enough left in the tank to take LU out in the finale in Boiling Springs, assuming we learn to play defense at some point.xbangx

You don't think your guys will be able to handle the Beach Chickens this year? You should have more confidence. xwhistlex