Where are the small school players?

[smallcollegefbfan]

I saw this in an article and thought I would post it. I think they are stretching it a bit saying that the best small school player is a 4th rounder at best. There are certainly a few quality players from the small school ranks. Seems as though the NFL is about speed and if you look at I-AA and D2 speed and depth is why 95 percent of the teams lose when they play up in competition.

I think there are 3-4 players worthy of first day picks but if you look at the stats there are very few small schoolers who actually make it big in the NFL. Seems as though most are backups or just role players. If you look there about maybe 15 non I-A players in the NFL who are either a star or very well known and comparing that to how many are starters in the NFL that is a small percentage. The talent has decreased over the last few years. If you look there have been less small school players drafted recently. At one time there were 30 plus players every year and now there are 25 or less most years. One year I remember only 14 I-AA players getting drafted. It is surprising when you consider the technology and the fact that we should be finding more players. Instead, there are less getting picked. You can never overlook small schoolers but you have to realize that less than 10 percent of the players invited to the combine or drafted each year are from small schools.

What do you all think about this?



Here is the part of the article on the small school players:

Where are the small-school players?

When the late Eddie Robinson had his best teams at Grambling, the NFL happily was finding gems at his and other so-called small schools. But what once was fertile ground for the pros has now dried up noticeably.

One NFL personnel man stared a few minutes at his preliminary board for this year's draft before finding any names of players from small schools. He finally identified two prospects he might pick, both in the late rounds. Other scouts say it's not quite that bad, but even they agree that predominantly black colleges and schools below Division I-AA no longer are developing as many top NFL players as they once did.

"It's dried up beyond dry," says Casserly. "We all have our theories as to why. But we met as a league 10 years ago about player development because we were concerned that as academic requirements rose in colleges, it would affect the talent coming into the NFL. And that is what is happening right now."

In addition, with more colleges recruiting nationally and with more Internet recruiting services increasing the scrutiny of prospects, it's now more unlikely that a really good high school player will escape big-school notice.

The best small-school player in this draft is Jacoby Jones, a receiver from Lane College, who's likely a fourth-round pick at best. Other small-school guys who could be drafted include Michael Allan, a tight end from Whitworth; Allen Barbre, a tackle from Missouri Southern; Kevin Boss, a tight end from West-ern Oregon; and Zak DeOssie, a linebacker from Brown.

[Mr. C]

Well, maybe if the NFL would come up with something other than their antiquated way of finding talent, they might actually find some players. Obviously, the personnel man quoted in the article must be from one of those teams that screws up picks every year, because he didn't mention LB Justin Durant, TE Ben Patrick and a few others. None of these guys have David Ball on their lists and we all know how good Ball is going to be. Casserly ought to keep quiet about such stuff, considering how he has seemed to lose the ability to recognize talent during his final years at Washington and through his tenure in Houston. A major part of the problem is the NFL is scared to make unconventional picks, because everyone will blast them for it. So they come up with these stupid, cookie-cutter ways of finding players. And I don't agree about the star thing either. You could take a team of I-AA/FCS players from the NFL and beat the crap out a team of I-A/FBS players. The stars are still there. Just last year, Marques Colston was almost totally overlooked (I bet that brainiac personnel man who was flapping his gums didn't have Colston on his list either). I've been covering FCS exclusively for 15 years and the talent and quality of play has never been better. It seems to rise almost every year. The NFL has relied on its free farm system, the NCAA, for years. They don't like having to work harder to develop players like a Kurt Warner, or whoever.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Well, maybe if the NFL would come up with something other than their antiquated way of finding talent, they might actually find some players. Obviously, the personnel man quoted in the article must be from one of those teams that screws up picks every year, because he didn't mention LB Justin Durant, TE Ben Patrick and a few others. None of these guys have David Ball on their lists and we all know how good Ball is going to be. Casserly ought to keep quiet about such stuff, considering how he has seemed to lose the ability to recognize talent during his final years at Washington and through his tenure in Houston. A major part of the problem is the NFL is scared to make unconventional picks, because everyone will blast them for it. So they come up with these stupid, cookie-cutter ways of finding players. And I don't agree about the star thing either. You could take a team of I-AA/FCS players from the NFL and beat the crap out a team of I-A/FBS players. The stars are still there. Just last year, Marques Colston was almost totally overlooked (I bet that brainiac personnel man who was flapping his gums didn't have Colston on his list either). I've been covering FCS exclusively for 15 years and the talent and quality of play has never been better. It seems to rise almost every year. The NFL has relied on its free farm system, the NCAA, for years. They don't like having to work harder to develop players like a Kurt Warner, or whoever.

I agree that FCS players are overlooked on draft day but they top players eventually find their way to the top of NFL depth charts. You still find less than 10 percent from the FCS ranks on rosters. I think the main point those personnel people are making (and yes none of them are considered the top personnel guys either) is that odds are that out of 100 of the top players in the NFL you will find more than 85 percent of them from former I-A schools. Most people will take the odds. You have a 10-15 percent chance of finding a star from a small school and a 85-90 percent chance of finding them from a big small. I am like you and think that more small school players should get looks initially and that some of the player players in the league are from small schools, however, I look at the NFL like I do college. In college major schools normally beat FCS schools due to the depth chart and the fact that there are not enough playmakers in the small school ranks to last more than 2 or 2 1/2 quarters. In the NFL you have about 20 stars from the small school ranks, not enough to make a full starting lineup, and about 100 plus from the major schools. What makes me mad about those comments is that they act like that you can't find studs in the small school ranks and that is not true. There are players in the D3 and NAIA ranks who could be stars in I-AA or I-A. There are very good players at every level, not just I-A or I-AA. The only thing is that teams have to look all around for them.

Mr. C, sounds to me some of these personnel men appear to be a little lazy and don't want to do the detailed research to find the stars and just want to take the odds dont they?

[smallcollegefbfan]

Well, maybe if the NFL would come up with something other than their antiquated way of finding talent, they might actually find some players. Obviously, the personnel man quoted in the article must be from one of those teams that screws up picks every year, because he didn't mention LB Justin Durant, TE Ben Patrick and a few others. None of these guys have David Ball on their lists and we all know how good Ball is going to be. Casserly ought to keep quiet about such stuff, considering how he has seemed to lose the ability to recognize talent during his final years at Washington and through his tenure in Houston. A major part of the problem is the NFL is scared to make unconventional picks, because everyone will blast them for it. So they come up with these stupid, cookie-cutter ways of finding players. And I don't agree about the star thing either. You could take a team of I-AA/FCS players from the NFL and beat the crap out a team of I-A/FBS players. The stars are still there. Just last year, Marques Colston was almost totally overlooked (I bet that brainiac personnel man who was flapping his gums didn't have Colston on his list either). I've been covering FCS exclusively for 15 years and the talent and quality of play has never been better. It seems to rise almost every year. The NFL has relied on its free farm system, the NCAA, for years. They don't like having to work harder to develop players like a Kurt Warner, or whoever.

Here are this year's pro bowl rosters. I counted and found less than 10 players that I know for sure did not play at a I-A school. Anyone know for sure how many played at a small school? I know Colston was screwed so you can add him into the list of pro bowl talent along with Dexter Coakley, Terrell Owens, and Brian Westbrook. That is still about 9-13 players out of about 103 total players. You take the stats there and you don't get a ton but you do get very quality players. I still don’t think you can make a team of 11 on offense and 11 on defense with 11 backups on each side who would beat a team of FBS players. They would certainly be a very impressive team though.

One major drop off in talent would be at QB where the FBS team would have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Drew Bress, or Brett Favre and the FCS team would have Tony Romo. While I did add notable FCS players you would also need to add notable FBS players missing from the rosters such as Favre, Brady, Asante Samuel, and more.


AFC Pro Bowl Roster
AFC PRO BOWL ROSTER
OFFENSE (21) STARTERS RESERVES
Wide receivers (4) Andre Johnson, HOU
Chad Johnson, CIN Marvin Harrison, IND
Reggie Wayne, IND*
Tackles (3) Tarik Glenn, IND
Marcus McNeill, SD*## Matt Light, NE##
Jonathan Ogden, BAL (injured)
Willie Anderson, CIN
(injured)
Guards (3) Alan Faneca, PIT
Will Shields, KC Brian Waters, KC
Centers (2) Jeff Saturday, IND* Nick Hardwick, SD
Tight ends (2) Antonio Gates, SD Tony Gonzalez, KC
Quarterbacks (3) Peyton Manning, IND Carson Palmer, CIN
Vince Young, TEN*##
Philip Rivers, SD* (injured)
Running backs (3) LaDainian Tomlinson, SD Larry Johnson, KC
Willie Parker, PIT*
Fullback (1) Lorenzo Neal, SD
DEFENSE (17) STARTERS RESERVES
Defensive ends (3) Jason Taylor, MIA
Aaron Schobel, BUF* Derrick Burgess, OAK
Interior linemen (3) Jamal Williams, SD
Casey Hampton, PIT John Henderson, JAC##
Richard Seymour, NE (injured)
Outside linebackers (3) Adalius Thomas, BAL
Shawne Merriman, SD Terrell Suggs, BAL
Inside linebackers (2) Zach Thomas, MIA Bart Scott, BAL##
Al Wilson, DEN (injured)
Cornerbacks (3) Champ Bailey, DEN
Rashean Mathis, JAC* Chris McAlister, BAL
Strong safeties (1) Troy Polamalu, PIT
Free safety (2) Ed Reed, BAL John Lynch, DEN
SPECIALISTS (4) PLAYERS
Punter Brian Moorman, BUF
Placekicker Nate Kaeding, SD*
Kick return specialist Justin Miller, NYJ*
Special teamer Kassim Osgood, SD*
Long snapper David Binn, SD* (need player)
* First time Pro Bowl selection
## — injury replacement

NFC Pro Bowl Roster
NFC PRO BOWL ROSTER
OFFENSE (21) STARTERS RESERVES
Wide receivers (4) Donald Driver, GB
Steve Smith, CAR Anquan Boldin, ARI
Roy Williams, DET*##
Torry Holt, STL (injured)
Tackles (3) Walter Jones, SEA
Chris Samuels, WAS Flozell Adams, DAL##
Jammal Brown, NO* (injured)
Guards (3) Steve Hutchinson, MIN
Larry Allen, SF Ruben Brown, CHI##
Shawn Andrews, PHI* (injured)
Centers (2) Matt Birk, MIN Andre Gurode, DAL##
Olin Kreutz, CHI (injured)
Tight ends (2) Alge Crumpler, ATL Jason Witten, DAL##
Jeremy Shockey, NYG (injured)
Quarterbacks (3) Drew Brees, NO Marc Bulger, STL
Tony Romo, DAL*
Running backs (3) Frank Gore, SF* Tiki Barber, NYG
Steven Jackson, STL*
Fullback (1) Mack Strong, SEA
DEFENSE (17) STARTERS RESERVES
Defensive ends (3) Julius Peppers, CAR
Will Smith, NO* Aaron Kampman, GB*
Interior linemen (3) Kevin Williams, MIN
Kris Jenkins, CAR Pat Williams, MIN##
Tommie Harris, CHI (injured)
Outside linebackers (3) DeMarcus Ware, DAL*
Julian Peterson, SEA Derrick Brooks, TB##
Lance Briggs, CHI (injured)
Inside linebackers (2) Lofa Tatupu, SEA Antonio Pierce, NYG##
Brian Urlacher, CHI (injured)
Cornerbacks (3) Ronde Barber, TB
DeAngelo Hall, ATL Walt Harris, SF*##
Lito Sheppard, PHI (injured)
Strong safeties (2) Adrian Wilson, ARI* Roy Williams, DAL
Free safety (1) Sean Taylor, WAS##
Brian Dawkins, PHI (injured)
SPECIALISTS (4) PLAYERS
Punter Mat McBriar, DAL*
Placekicker Robbie Gould, CHI*
Kick return specialist Devin Hester, CHI*
Special teamer Brendon Ayanbadejo, CHI*
Long snapper Dave Moore, TB* (need player)
* First time Pro Bowl selection
## — injury replacement

[Bison05]

Here is the part of the article on the small school players:

Where are the small-school players?

When the late Eddie Robinson had his best teams at Grambling, the NFL happily was finding gems at his and other so-called small schools. But what once was fertile ground for the pros has now dried up noticeably.

One NFL personnel man stared a few minutes at his preliminary board for this year's draft before finding any names of players from small schools. He finally identified two prospects he might pick, both in the late rounds. Other scouts say it's not quite that bad, but even they agree that predominantly black colleges and schools below Division I-AA no longer are developing as many top NFL players as they once did.

"It's dried up beyond dry," says Casserly. "We all have our theories as to why. But we met as a league 10 years ago about player development because we were concerned that as academic requirements rose in colleges, it would affect the talent coming into the NFL. And that is what is happening right now."

In addition, with more colleges recruiting nationally and with more Internet recruiting services increasing the scrutiny of prospects, it's now more unlikely that a really good high school player will escape big-school notice.

The best small-school player in this draft is Jacoby Jones, a receiver from Lane College, who's likely a fourth-round pick at best. Other small-school guys who could be drafted include Michael Allan, a tight end from Whitworth; Allen Barbre, a tackle from Missouri Southern; Kevin Boss, a tight end from West-ern Oregon; and Zak DeOssie, a linebacker from Brown.

Look at the bolded part. It would appear that they don't include most of the FCS schools as "small-schools". This might explain why they're predicting such a late first draft pick for small school players.

[appfan2008]

the numbers of players that small college football fan mentioned is staggering... we (fcs) really does not provide the major talent... yes we fill out the depth charts but that is (for the most part) it
IMO

[Mr. C]

Here are this year's pro bowl rosters. I counted and found less than 10 players that I know for sure did not play at a I-A school. Anyone know for sure how many played at a small school? I know Colston was screwed so you can add him into the list of pro bowl talent along with Dexter Coakley, Terrell Owens, and Brian Westbrook. That is still about 9-13 players out of about 103 total players. You take the stats there and you don't get a ton but you do get very quality players. I still don’t think you can make a team of 11 on offense and 11 on defense with 11 backups on each side who would beat a team of FBS players. They would certainly be a very impressive team though.

One major drop off in talent would be at QB where the FBS team would have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Drew Bress, or Brett Favre and the FCS team would have Tony Romo. While I did add notable FCS players you would also need to add notable FBS players missing from the rosters such as Favre, Brady, Asante Samuel, and more.

I wasn't limiting things to just ONE year. You have to consider that there is a bit of a transition period going on right now, with some great I-AA players retiring from the pro ranks. Jerry Rice is gone, Dexter Coakley is at the end of the road. Matt Stevens retired a couple years ago (a player that I have NO doubt would have been a star, if not for the brutal knee injury he suffered from a UTC cheap shot-cut block in 1995). Some others who have ended their careers include Jerry Azumah, Travis JerveyYou mention Tony Romo as the best I-AA QB, but consider that Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon and Steve McNair are among the I-AA QBs that are either at the end of the road, or have retired. Some other names I would throw in are guys like Jeremiah Trotter, who have proven themselves and young guys like Boomer Grigsby, Jared Allen, B.J. Sams and Jerome Mathis. Who is to say that Chris Gocong or Jordan Beck won't have impact careers? You also didn't mention players like Randy Moss or Chad Pennington, who started their careers in I-AA. I'd put Moss and Owens at WR and challenge anyone's secondary. Throw in Colston to that mix. I'd take my chances with Adrian Peterson, too. I wasn't talking just about one year.

[appfan2008]

owens moss colston... damn thats sick

[smallcollegefbfan]

owens moss colston... damn thats sick

There have been many greats in the FCS who went to the NFL and to be honest the NFL has been made because of everyone. When you think about the players at the great USC and Michigan and Florida State teams and the sleepers from Hofstra, Montana, App State, etc. who also filled team depth charts.

On the average the major schools provide way more talent in general but there have been great players come through the small school ranks. Moss, Owens, Colston are a sick 3-some of wideouts, however, I-A can say the same thing. Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, etc. can be thrown out there as well.

The small schools are loaded at WR but look at QBs, the most important position among skill players. You have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, etc. who would match up against Tony Romo and who else? The small schools seem to do a great job of putting out talent at WR, the OL at times, DB, and even LB with guys like Justin Durant this year and Boomer Grigsby from recent years. You just don't see the depth across the board. Let's face it, the big schools put the majority of the talent in the pros, BY FAR. If anyone from the big schools wants to say that they put ALL the talent in the pros they are wrong too. You can find plenty of stars from the small school ranks, just not as many as you can from the big boys.

As you can see there are great players everywhere. Anyone who believes all the small school talent comes from the FCS is not looking at the whole picture either. When I say small schoolers I include D2, D3, and NAIA.

To me all the small schools need to stick together. If I was making a team of small schoolers to play against the big schools you have to throw in players such as Viniteri and others who actually played for D2 programs. Danieal Manning from this past year was a D2 player as well. Just like you can say about I-A putting the most talent, you can also see that the FCS ranks has put out more talent than D2 and D3. However, you have to also realize that without the fillers from the D2 and D3 programs you are taking away from what is the excellent overall talent coming from all small schools.

In terms of the pro bowl stat for Mr. C, Coakley went to 3 and Stevens went to none so I would throw Stevens out of that group of great players. He was a very good role player but never an impact player in the NFL. You are right that he could have been a star though. He was hit with the injury bug, but that is just part of the game. Coakley is a player who probably should have gone to more than he did.

[smallcollegefbfan]

the numbers of players that small college football fan mentioned is staggering... we (fcs) really does not provide the major talent... yes we fill out the depth charts but that is (for the most part) it
IMO

That is my point. Just looking at it we don't fill the majority of the spots on a roster. We do however fill a few slots of star players and fill many role players.

[BEAR]

Well, from everything I've learned about the business side of pro sports, you can get more Florida fans to watch a pro game if you put a Florida player in the starting lineup than you can if you put a UCA player in the starting lineup. 30000 Florida fans to watch their lineman is better than 8000 UCA fans to watch their QB. It's a number game. To get more viewers, you pick kids from teams with tons of fans..and they'll watch your game because one of their own is playing. Simple math. Sucks that sometimes the more talented player might not play, but it's a business, not a sport..like I believe it was Kobe Bryant that said, "i'm an entertainer, I get paid to entertain the fans." xoopsx

[andy7171]

I didn't read Casserlys comments as a slam on FCS? His quotes were for the HBCU schools and schools below FCS(I-AA as he says).
Odd that he doesn't mention Hampton's Durant after making a point to call out the "predominantly black colleges".
D.II and III haven't put out any notable pros in awhile.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I didn't read Casserlys comments as a slam on FCS? His quotes were for the HBCU schools and schools below FCS(I-AA as he says).
Odd that he doesn't mention Hampton's Durant after making a point to call out the "predominantly black colleges".
D.II and III haven't put out any notable pros in awhile.

D2 actually put two players in the NFL last year who started. Danieal Manning of Chicago and Jahri Evans of New Orleans. D2 does not put anything close to the same amount of players in the NFL that the FCS does but they do contribute some very solid ones. D3 hasn't put anyone hardly. Their best player a couple years ago, Brett Elliott, is now in NFL Europe. It is very tough to make an NFL roster from D3 but every year it seems like 1-3 catch on.

[andy7171]

D2 actually put two players in the NFL last year who started. Danieal Manning of Chicago and Jahri Evans of New Orleans. D2 does not put anything close to the same amount of players in the NFL that the FCS does but they do contribute some very solid ones. D3 hasn't put anyone hardly. Their best player a couple years ago, Brett Elliott, is now in NFL Europe. It is very tough to make an NFL roster from D3 but every year it seems like 1-3 catch on.
Yeah, my point was the article was aimed at those divisions, not FCS. Were those two D.II guys drafted?

[jmuroller]

I'm pretty sure this guy isn't counting 1-AA players as small schools.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Yeah, my point was the article was aimed at those divisions, not FCS. Were those two D.II guys drafted?

Manning was a 2nd rounder and Evans was a 4th rounder.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm pretty sure this guy isn't counting 1-AA players as small schools.

I was thinking that too but it was not specified so I was not sure.

[Jaxhen]

I think he was mainly referring to D-II and D-III players also; however, he does mention Zak DeOssie, a linebacker from Brown, an FCS school.