My '07 SoCon Prediction in depth

[GaSouthern]

1.Appalacian State 10-1 (7-0)
2.Furman 8-3 (5-2)
3.Wofford 8-3 (4-3)
4.Georgia Southern 6-5 (4-3)
5.Citadel 5-6 (3-4)
7.Western 4-7 (3-4)
6.Elon 3-8 (1-6)
8.Chatty 3-8 (1-6)

All picks were done with 75% heart 25% head :)

[GaSouthern]

flame suit on! :D

[youwouldno]

It's too early. Plus I'm not sure your overall records make sense... El Cid will be better than that OOC. I think App loses a SoCon game.

[citdog]

switch us with the 'dins and i think you got it about right

[GaSouthern]

I can't see Furman falling of much, well atleast not that much. (5th)

1.Appalacian State 10-1 (7-0) The rich get richer, they see the playoffs
2.Furman 8-3 (5-2) have another strong season and go back to the playoffs
3.Wofford 8-3 (4-3) will not get woffed after a hard SoCon schedule and make it to the playoffs
4.Georgia Southern 6-5 (4-3) double their wins but are still not Big3 yet
5.Citadel 5-6 (3-4) a few close losses and un-luck OOC
7.Western 4-7 (3-4) Has a nice rebound year
6.Elon 3-8 (1-6) are back down after having a strong year
8.Chatty 3-8 (1-6) have some heartbreaking losses and a few thrashings

[Mountaineer]

I agree in that I think it's highly unlikely that App goes undefeated in the SoCon. Tough games at Furman and Wofford. xnodx I definitely see a close race between 2 and 5. Could be up for grabs for just about everyone - except those bottom three. xthumbsupx

[fuEMO]

Tell me why Furman should be down in 07, citdog?

If your prediction is based on last seasons meeting. Your betting against history. Furman has more returning starters than Citadel and maybe the most in the SoCon. And this season the FU/CIT game won't be Sorrells first start. I expect it to be a good game in ChuckTown but I like the Dins this season. I like Bobby's off-season coaching moves, I think the Furman Defense will be the biggest surprise in the SoCon in 07.

[Fresno St. Alum]

It's just weird not seeing Ga. Southern near the top of the FCS.xsmhx

[Mountaineer]

It's just weird not seeing Ga. Southern near the top of the FCS.xsmhx

They had a bad year, but there's no way GSU isn't gonna be back roaming near the top here soon. Just too good of a program with too much tradition. Now I'm going to go scream into a pillow.. xbawlingx

[Eyes of Old Main]

I agree in that I think it's highly unlikely that App goes undefeated in the SoCon.

I agree with the ranking order listed above and will agree that it is unlikely for ASU to go through the SoCon undefeated again. I think ASU and Furman make it into the playoffs, with Wofford and GSU having outside shots depending on how the records shake out.

[Mr. C]

Tell me why Furman should be down in 07, citdog?

If your prediction is based on last seasons meeting. Your betting against history. Furman has more returning starters than Citadel and maybe the most in the SoCon. And this season the FU/CIT game won't be Sorrells first start. I expect it to be a good game in ChuckTown but I like the Dins this season. I like Bobby's off-season coaching moves, I think the Furman Defense will be the biggest surprise in the SoCon in 07.
It isn't so much that Furman will be down, but that the rest of the conference will be improved. I think you can make an argument for Furman finishing anywhere from second to fifth, just as you can for Wofford (honestly think the Terriers will be second or third), The Citadel or Chattanooga. Are you expecting Sorrels to be the QB starter? If he starts ahead of Gray, I would automatically move Furman down a notch or two. The SoCon is not a conference where inexperienced QBs thrive (Armanti Edwards being a huge exception and really the best example of this since Chad Pennington led Marshall to the national title game — but only second in the SoCon — as a freshman). Don't look at it as how the Paladins will do against The Citadel or Wofford head-to-head. You need to look at the entire schedule. There will probably be a lot of upsets in the league from two through seven this year. Elon could be a dark horse.

Georgia Southern's problem will be the growing pains of a new staff adjusting to the teams around the league. I see the Eagles winning five or six games overall at best and showing more improvement in 2008.

Western Carolina is still in serious turmoil. A lot of players have been sent packing and the Catamounts will be seriously inexperienced in 2007. If WCU wins more than a game or two in the SoCon, I will be shocked.

[Mr. C]

They had a bad year, but there's no way GSU isn't gonna be back roaming near the top here soon. Just too good of a program with too much tradition. Now I'm going to go scream into a pillow.. xbawlingx
Brian VanGorder (sorry to use a swear word on AGS, I'll try not to do it again) so screwed up this program, that it WILL take some time to get the Eagles back on track. Chris Hatcher should be given at least until the in-coming freshmen are upperclassmen to get GSU back in the thick of things.

[PaladinFan]

I really don't think any SoCon team has an easy schedule they can ride into the playoffs. All the teams have tough road games and the conference has gotten more competitive.

For Furman it will be nice to have the Mountaineers visit Paladin Stadium again. FU also has to hike to Statesboro, where our record is atrocious. The road game at The Citadel will likely be one of the toughest for the Paladins this year.

It will be hard, I think, to knock Furman and App out of those first two spots. Both teams return a slew of good players. It might just come down to which team is the healthiest.

[youwouldno]

I think you underestimate Furman, Mr. C, though not drastically. A fifth place finish is exceedingly unlikely and a first place finish is possible. Furman beat the 2005 App team in Greenville, why not the 2007 one? I doubt the Mountaineers will be quite as good this time around, considering how tremendous that '05 team was. The answer you might give is that the 2007 Furman team isn't the '05 version of the Paladins either, but I'm not sure that's equally true.

Obviously Furman doesn't have Martin, but the defense should be better than in '06, and the defense last year was better than in '05. Last year's poor finish, on both sides of the ball, is really not indicative of how things are likely to go in '07. The Paladins have ridiculous depth and talent at running back and good potential to field a dominant OL-- something that was missing last season. That's always been the most important unit for Furman.

I also don't think schedules can be discounted. Home field advantage can be everything in football.

[fuEMO]

I have no desire to argue points with Mr. C. But Furman had very little senior leadership last season. The loss of Covington, Stewart and Laggis was underestimated. I expect Goolsby, Bell, Shuford, Slaughter, Haynes, Cockburn to start to provide the same level of leadership this season.

As far as the improvement by SoCon teams I totally agree. And so has Furman. Furman has had IMO back to back to back stellar recruiting. Getting players like Chancelor and Worley from GSU and fighting it out against Navy for impact players like Boykin. I'll even throw Seth Skogen in the mix APP wanted Skogen but he went with the Paladins even after the Boone destruction. BL also has made some moves on defense that I believe will make a tremendous impact this season. Pinella as the DL and DE coach. Farrington taking a more lead role at DC, I always hated to see us play against his ETSU coached defenses.

As far as Sorrells goes, Gray looked great in the spring but Sorrells looked better. My point was that last years Citadel/Furman game was Jordan's first start. I do think Sorrells will prove to be the player that most are expecting by the time he graduates. Jordan is field-smart and very talented but more important the kid has alot of heart. IF he does get the start in 07 I don't see the auto drop that Mr. C does.

Every fan of a SoCon team has a right to be optimistic about the up coming season. And I join my fellow Paladin fans very optimistic about 07.

[PaladinFan]

Also been mentioned before, ASU has one a total of one time at Paladin Stadium in the past twelve years. ASU won in Greenville in '95 and in '03.

People often talk about ASU's domination of Furman in Boone, but (and I had to go back twice to see) the Paladins have been near equally as dominate against the Mountaineers on their home turf. Since 1995 Furman has won once in Boone and ASU has won twice in Greenville. If you boil it down and take "recent" history, ASU is the only team to win at the other field, and then only once.

I think Furman fans have reason to be optimistic.

[appfan2008]

IMO...

asu
furman
wofford
citadel
gsu
elon
chatty
western

i dont see western getting out of the socon cellar or asu dropping from the top... also i think gsu still needs more time before getting back to the top half of the conference furman and wofford join asu in the playoffs

[proasu89]

I think you underestimate Furman, Mr. C, though not drastically. A fifth place finish is exceedingly unlikely and a first place finish is possible. Furman beat the 2005 App team in Greenville, why not the 2007 one? I doubt the Mountaineers will be quite as good this time around, considering how tremendous that '05 team was. The answer you might give is that the 2007 Furman team isn't the '05 version of the Paladins either, but I'm not sure that's equally true.

Obviously Furman doesn't have Martin, but the defense should be better than in '06, and the defense last year was better than in '05. Last year's poor finish, on both sides of the ball, is really not indicative of how things are likely to go in '07. The Paladins have ridiculous depth and talent at running back and good potential to field a dominant OL-- something that was missing last season. That's always been the most important unit for Furman.

I also don't think schedules can be discounted. Home field advantage can be everything in football.

xhomerx I've got a feeling this team will be better.

[Mr. C]

My, my, Purple friends, call off the dogs. You would think I said Bobby Lamb wears panty hose (purple ones, of course), or something. I am not putting Furman down, I'm just saying that some of the other teams, like The Citadel and Wofford, will be very competitive with the Paladins this season. Furman is going to be in my top-15 or top-20 when I do my first preseason poll (for the Southern Sports Journal football preview) next week. Haven't decided exactly where, but somewhere in there. I think they are very capable of being a playoff team again in 2007.

For me, Jerome Felton is the BEST player in FCS and I also think he is the BEST FB in all of college football (glad to see someone in college football is still smart enough to know how to utilize such a talent). There is a lot I like about Furman. I like Renaldo Gray. I also like your offensive line. But I see some potential problems as well. Coaches around the league talk about Furman having a deficit with some other league schools in terms of speed (particularly Appalachian State) that the Paladins need to address. And the defense has really not been up to Furman's normal standards for several years. Furman has players returning defensively, but the question is will the Paladins be better on defense? If Furman answers these questions, it has the chance to be in its normal place as one of the elite teams in FCS (by that I'm meaning top-10). If not, the Paladins could see a team, or two, or three pass them by in the competitive SoCon this season.

As far as salivating about the fact that you draw App State at Paladin Stadium, I wouldn't be licking any chops about that. You Furman posters keep talking about history, but history doesn't really mean much this year. You are not playing the 1997-2005 Mountaineers. The last time you hosted ASU in Greenville, the Mountaineers had yet to win a national championship. As a matter of fact, ASU's current win streak of 23 consecutive FCS wins began the week after the loss to Furman in 2005. By the time ASU ventures to Greenville again, the streak may stand at 29 games. This is a team that hasn't seemed to matter where it plays during that streak. During that time, there have only been maybe four close games. ASU should have the top offense in FCS in 2007, with almost all of the key members back. If you would have seen this attack in spring ball, you would know what a task opponents will have stopping it this season. If Furman wants to beat ASU, it better score 40 or more points against a formidable defense and better hold the Mountaineers down as well. Another problem for Furman against ASU is that it has become a battle of brute force against tremendous speed. After watching the game in Boone last year, you have to wonder if Furman can keep up with ASU's speed, something NO FCS team was able to do last season.

Furman is a very good team, but it is very likely the Paladins will be battling for second or third place in the SoCon next season. And there is absolutely no dishonor in that, considering how good this league will be.

[youwouldno]

I don't think Furman fans are "licking their chops." The fact is, the Paladins have a much better chance of winning in Greenville than in Boone. That is unquestionable and relevant.

I also don't buy the idea that Furman is sorely lacking in speed. The Paladins have some fast WR's, Adam Mims is as fast as anyone App St has, Keiron Williams is very fast, at RB Gipson is fast, LaFrance is a 4.5 guy at 220 lbs, Mike Brown is explosive, at CB Julian Hicks is a quick 4.5 guy, Dustin Gourdin was a track champion, FU has a bunch of fast LB's, Dortch, Crisp, and others, DE JJ Mars could be an explosive edge rusher... the issue isn't running speed on a track. The issue is making big plays in game situations. Furman did that for a few weeks last season, but was unable to early in the year and then later in the season.

If the offense performs up to its potential, no one in FCS will stop it.

[Mr. C]

No team in FCS is as fast as Appalachian State. Any knowledgable expert on FCS football would tell you that. The closest team that ASU saw speed-wise to itself last year was UMass and even the Minutemen couldn't keep up with ASU's speed. You may not buy the idea that Furman has some speed issues, but if you talked to some coaches around the league, you might be given a different view. If you compare ASU's defense with Furman's offense, the Mountaineers have a speed advantage at most positions. On offense, Armanti Edwards is the quickest QB in FCS and one of the quickest in college football. WR Dexter Jackson is a SoCon track champion. There are several other speedsters among the WRs. I don't know if the Paladins have anyone as fast as Kevin Richardson either. ASU is faster on the DL than Furman is on the OL and ASU is faster on the OL than Furman is on the DL.

Sure, Furman has a better chance of beating ASU in Greenville than in Boone, but the Paladins will still be heavy underdogs, even at home.

BTW, ASU's defense shut down some pretty high-scoring attacks in 2006, including Furman's.

[appfan2008]

No team in FCS is as fast as Appalachian State. Any knowledgable expert on FCS football would tell you that. The closest team that ASU saw speed-wise to itself last year was UMass and even the Minutemen couldn't keep up with ASU's speed. You may not buy the idea that Furman has some speed issues, but if you talked to some coaches around the league, you might be given a different view. If you compare ASU's defense with Furman's offense, the Mountaineers have a speed advantage at most positions. On offense, Armanti Edwards is the quickest QB in FCS and one of the quickest in college football. WR Dexter Jackson is a SoCon track champion. There are several other speedsters among the WRs. I don't know if the Paladins have anyone as fast as Kevin Richardson either. ASU is faster on the DL than Furman is on the OL and ASU is faster on the OL than Furman is on the DL.

Sure, Furman has a better chance of beating ASU in Greenville than in Boone, but the Paladins will still be heavy underdogs, even at home.

BTW, ASU's defense shut down some pretty high-scoring attacks in 2006, including Furman's.
and dont forgot how many defensive players are returning, including four senior defensive backs including 3 who started each of the last 2 national championship seasons... the linebacking returns nearly everyone and one all socon dlineman is back with 3 very formidable players being added... yes mr. c our offense should be the best in the country but our defense may be very special as well

[youwouldno]

Track speed is irrelevant in football. An FCS fan should know that... Jerry Rice? David Ball? It's game speed that matters. And game speed is a product of execution rather than track times. As has been discussed in the pro forum, Murrell is not actually that fast on a track. On the field, opposing QB's sure thought he was. That's because he did, in fact, get to them quickly. But getting to a QB, through an OL and other blockers, is totally different from running some arbitrary distance on a track with no pads.

Against West Georgia, the Paladins looked horribly slow. They looked quite a bit quicker, I would imagine, to North Carolina and Wofford (well, until the 4th quarter against Wofford). The players had the same track times. The difference was how they worked together as a team and took advantage of their athleticism. App St has always had athletes, yet until 2005-2006 never won a title. The difference was in execution, not track performance.

Furman's game speed will be determined by how the Paladins execute. There are plenty of them that can run. Heck, UTC has plenty of guys that can run. Yet year after year, Furman totally destroys them. Football is a team game and a game of skill... the SoCon is a very athletic conference and every single team has strong athletes. The difference is making plays. The past two years, App St has done that better than anyone in the FCS.

[appfan2008]

yes we have track speed but with a guy like dexter, he has already proven that his track speed does translate to pads and a football... as with many others

[Kill'em]

Brian VanGorder (sorry to use a swear word on AGS, I'll try not to do it again) so screwed up this program, that it WILL take some time to get the Eagles back on track. Chris Hatcher should be given at least until the in-coming freshmen are upperclassmen to get GSU back in the thick of things.
I don't think it will take that long.

[appfan2008]

I don't think it will take that long.
how long do you think it will take???

[Kill'em]

If the team builds on what I saw in the Spring Game today, I think 8 wins next year is not out of the question. Realistically, a year or two.

[Purple Knight]

Within the SoCon, Furman will probably be the underdog in the App State game and will probably lose. Against Wofford, Ga Sou and The Citadel, I don't see furman winning all three or losing all three. It wouldn't suprise me if GSU recovers faster than most predict. Regardless they will run a passing game that will give Furman fits. We can win 2 or 1 IMO. This will leave us with 2 or 3 conference losses. Remember, we also face Clemson, probably a loss, and Coastal Carolina, a toss-up and don't forget Hofstra. That will leave us with at least 3, probably 4 losses. If so, no playoffs. And that's the way it is!

[PaladinFan]

I posted these statistics on another post. Furman is 74-47-7 all time against Wofford. 4-1 under Bobby Lamb. Only twice since 1999 has WC held FU under 30 points. Mike Ayers (a great coach) holds a very meager 2-11-1 record against Furman since his tenure at WC began in '87. Any person that puts Wofford ahead of Furman after the two consecutive drubbings we've given them is just nuts.

People people like to say history doesn't mean anything. I completely disagree. History tells us what we should expect. Furman has a good team, App has a good team. They've met up with good teams in the past and Furman wins in Greenville 90% of the time. Not saying they will this year, but it is certainly something to look at. Also remember Furman has lost only once at home since the start of the 2004 season.

Speed is completely overated. ASU is a much faster team on their field at altitude. On the road things are different. At ASU's pro day a few years back I remember Richie Williams running a 4.88 40, on turf, at altitude. For a "mobile quarterback" that is extremely slow. What made the difference? Game speed.

IMO, if Jerome Felton is healthy the Furman/App game will be interesting. no matter how fast you are, you aren't stopping that horse.

[ASU_Chad]

I hear echos of every team who met us in the playoffs... "speed is overated." Well speed brought us our second trophy and UMASS to the championship game.

[Mr. C]

Track speed is irrelevant in football. An FCS fan should know that... Jerry Rice? David Ball? It's game speed that matters. And game speed is a product of execution rather than track times. As has been discussed in the pro forum, Murrell is not actually that fast on a track. On the field, opposing QB's sure thought he was. That's because he did, in fact, get to them quickly. But getting to a QB, through an OL and other blockers, is totally different from running some arbitrary distance on a track with no pads.

Against West Georgia, the Paladins looked horribly slow. They looked quite a bit quicker, I would imagine, to North Carolina and Wofford (well, until the 4th quarter against Wofford). The players had the same track times. The difference was how they worked together as a team and took advantage of their athleticism. App St has always had athletes, yet until 2005-2006 never won a title. The difference was in execution, not track performance.

Furman's game speed will be determined by how the Paladins execute. There are plenty of them that can run. Heck, UTC has plenty of guys that can run. Yet year after year, Furman totally destroys them. Football is a team game and a game of skill... the SoCon is a very athletic conference and every single team has strong athletes. The difference is making plays. The past two years, App St has done that better than anyone in the FCS.
Was I talking about track speed? The only track-related thing I mentioned was Dexter Jackson, who qualified for the NCAAs in the 100 and 200 today. But we all know that Jackson's football speed is pretty special too. Furman fans probably remember that long TD pass he broke on Trey Elder's first play in the 2005 NCAA Semifinal. Those of us that were at Gardner-Webb last fall saw Jackson score twice on punt returns and inexplicably drop what would have been a 99-yard TD pass.

If you don't think football speed is important, you don't know modern football. For years, teams like Appalachian State and Georgia Southern have been building their programs around speed. UMass rode its tremendous speed to the NCAA championship game last season. It wasn't a surprise to me that the two fastest teams in FCS were the ones that met for the title in 2006. When you saw Florida totally dissect the team that almost everyone thought was unbeatable, Ohio State, it was because of the Gators' speed advantage.

Appalachian State has better athletes than anyone in the Southern Conference and more of them. The Mountaineers also have a system with the no-huddle spread that NO ONE in FCS has figured out how to stop in the past two years. The ONLY loss in that time was to Furman in a game where the Paladins won on a special teams play, not because its defense was able to stop the ASU spread. Every team that has won national championships in the NCAA at ALL divisions in the past two years has run a version of the spread.

Furman had the talent to win back-to-back NCAA titles in 2004-2005 and its 1970s-era I formation attack couldn't generate enough second-half points to beat teams from James Madison and Appalachian State in the playoffs.

We are seeing something pretty remarkable right now in the history of I-AA/FCS football. An ASU team that has a chance to do what NO team has done — win three consecutive championships. And the reason for those two titles are speed, athletes and a system that is designed to exploit those abilities.

You can put down speed all you want, but unless Furman starts to recruit more speed to its team, the Paladins are going to start sliding behind teams like Appalachian State, Georgia Southern and maybe other teams in the Southern Conference.

[Mr. C]

I don't think it will take that long.
I hope you are right. The games I enjoy the most each year are those Appalachian-Georgia Southern-Furman battles.

[Mr. C]

I posted these statistics on another post. Furman is 74-47-7 all time against Wofford. 4-1 under Bobby Lamb. Only twice since 1999 has WC held FU under 30 points. Mike Ayers (a great coach) holds a very meager 2-11-1 record against Furman since his tenure at WC began in '87. Any person that puts Wofford ahead of Furman after the two consecutive drubbings we've given them is just nuts.

People people like to say history doesn't mean anything. I completely disagree. History tells us what we should expect. Furman has a good team, App has a good team. They've met up with good teams in the past and Furman wins in Greenville 90% of the time. Not saying they will this year, but it is certainly something to look at. Also remember Furman has lost only once at home since the start of the 2004 season.

Speed is completely overated. ASU is a much faster team on their field at altitude. On the road things are different. At ASU's pro day a few years back I remember Richie Williams running a 4.88 40, on turf, at altitude. For a "mobile quarterback" that is extremely slow. What made the difference? Game speed.

IMO, if Jerome Felton is healthy the Furman/App game will be interesting. no matter how fast you are, you aren't stopping that horse.
I hate to say it, but you really don't seem to have a grasp on modern football. If speed is so overrated, why is it that the fastest team in FCS has TWO consecutive NCAA trophies in its trophy case?

[Mr. C]

Within the SoCon, Furman will probably be the underdog in the App State game and will probably lose. Against Wofford, Ga Sou and The Citadel, I don't see furman winning all three or losing all three. It wouldn't suprise me if GSU recovers faster than most predict. Regardless they will run a passing game that will give Furman fits. We can win 2 or 1 IMO. This will leave us with 2 or 3 conference losses. Remember, we also face Clemson, probably a loss, and Coastal Carolina, a toss-up and don't forget Hofstra. That will leave us with at least 3, probably 4 losses. If so, no playoffs. And that's the way it is!
Finally someone who seems to understand what I've been trying to get at in this thread. I think the No. 1 and No. 8 teams in the league are pretty easy to figure out. The rest of the schools in the SoCon are going to have an absolute war to figure out No. 2 through No. 7.

[youwouldno]

Mr. C, perhaps I was unclear... because you don't seem to really grasp my point. I am saying that "football speed" is a product of execution rather than raw athletic ability. Last year's GSU team still had plenty of guys that could run. But the Eagles were horrible. Teams look "fast" that make a lot of plays. But that speed is a combination of factors... play diagnosis, discipline, and so on.

That is extremely important to note, because things like that can be improved, whereas raw straight-line speed is harder. App St's spread offense which you cite is case-in-point. The scheme itself makes the offense "faster," aside from the actual raw speed of the players within the scheme. On the other hand, some players under-perform their athletic ability... Chris Henry of Arizona is hugely overrated right now because of his 40 time, even though he isn't a playmaker at all.

Consequently, the '07 Paladins could easily play a lot "faster" with more or less the same personnel, by better utilizing their strengths. They could be better than the 2005 team that was very competitive with App St... the only FCS team to beat them anywhere, and putting up quite a fight in Boone.

[Mr. C]

If you have seen any of my posts on the various NFL draft threads, you would know I think game speed is more important that raw speed and that I put more emphasis on what happens on the field than some bunch of timed combine drills. And I agree with you to a point. For example, ASU has installed a system that best utilizes its athletic talent and its speed (both offensively and defensively). Georgia Southern had plenty of talent last year, but was so poorly coached, organized and prepared that the Eagles couldn't make the most of that talent. A prime example was how Brian VanGorder WASTED Jayson Foster.

But what I'm am trying to tell you about Furman is that the Paladins are at a disadvantage in the area of speed. Playing smash-mouth football isn't the best way to win these days and that's what Furman is trying to do. It will work against some teams, but the margin or error against an athletically-superior Appalachian State team is very slim, as you saw in the ASU-Furman game in 2006.

[youwouldno]

I understand what you're saying. I just think, perhaps due to your role as a journalist, you look at the competitive structure of the FCS in too limited a fashion. The strategies teams employ is constantly evolving, on both sides of the ball. What's important is not really the system a team uses, but rather, the system a team uses in the context of their opposition.

Applying that to the instant case: App St took the initiative by adopting the spread. I don't need to talk to Jerry Moore or read what he said to know why he did it. It wasn't because the spread was a more natural fit for his players, though obviously it was important that he be able to match personnel to strategy.

Moore changed the offense because it gave him a competitive advantage. It's no different than in any sport or contest or war. When your enemy builds a centralized command structure (the USSR), you build precision weapons in response (NATO). Moore saw a conference that was geared to stop the run, which at the time predominated, and realized that he could exploit the structure of the league.

He won two titles because he simultaneously built an elite defense. But with regard to his offense, what Mr. C and others perhaps overlook is that schematic advantages erode over time. It spurs other programs to take advantage of the same underlying factors, which in turn directs adaptation on the other side of the ball. That can't be done overnight. But it is happening... with regard to Furman, Lamb has dramatically increased the level of athleticism in his last few classes and taken other measures to better counter the new offensive structures in the SoCon.

[Saint3333]

If ASU's defensive line can reload and with the looks of the incoming class they just may, ASU wins the conference. The scary thing is the d-line is just as fast as it was the past two years, and it's getting bigger.xthumbsupx

The Linebacker and Secondaries may already be the best in the SoCon.

[Kill'em]

Georgia Southern had plenty of talent last year, but was so poorly coached, organized and prepared that the Eagles couldn't make the most of that talent. A prime example was how Brian VanGorder WASTED Jayson Foster.
How true!

[Purple Knight]

I think Mr C is on point. Furman had the most talent in modern times during the Ingle Martin years. It will be some time before we have the receiver crew of West, Bratton & Bear as well as an O line like that. With all of that, we fell short. Special teams were a contributing factor, but they usually are every year. We do not use an aggressive defense or aggressive play calling on offense. We are good, probably have done more than anyone with our program considering the size and scholastic requirements we have. I know BL tries to utilize our talent but its done in such a strick frameword that has been used for 25 years, it's tough to see the results. I once thought our speed was as good as anyone in the conference, not so anymore. Our corners have to give too much ground and we don't get much results from the option or sweep anymore.

We been able to play with anybody for a number of years, but last year, we were run off the field twice. I really don't think the issue is a better team, but one of better results.

[youwouldno]

Bear wasn't on the team with Martin. Pretty obvious error for a Furman fan to make...

[Death Dealer]

switch us with the 'dins and i think you got it about right
Hope springs eternal.xwhistlex

[Mr. C]

If ASU's defensive line can reload and with the looks of the incoming class they just may, ASU wins the conference. The scary thing is the d-line is just as fast as it was the past two years, and it's getting bigger.xthumbsupx

The Linebacker and Secondaries may already be the best in the SoCon.
ASU has had an unprecidented run of defensive linemen since the Sparky Woods era and Anthony Downs started a string of All-Americans in 1987. In the past 20 years, the Mountaineers have had 12 players on the DL earn All-American status. No FCS program has been as successful at finding and developing players on the defensive front. This year's team has All-SoCon Gary Tharrington back at DE, highly-touted Anthony Williams (he got a lot of playing time backing up Orlebar and Omarr Byrom) at DT, Daniel Finnerty, a promising DT and speedster Tony Robertson at the other DE. If you asked ANY player on the team who the most improved defensive player in spring ball was, they would say Robertson. He had three sacks alone in the spring game. Add to that perhaps the best recruiting class of DL in school history and then the transfer of Tim Washington from LSU (some are saying he is comparable to Jason Hunter) and I don't think ASU has many worries on the defensive front.

[PaladinFan]

I think that you would, however, be hard pressed to find a better linebacking unit than Furman's. MLB Andrew Jones might just be the best out there.

ASU's secondary is certainly very good. A large part of their success, however, has to be attributed to the front four getting pressure and forcing errant throws.

[Saint3333]

Not sure in Jones is the best, but you won't find three better than Pierre Banks, Jacque Roman, and Cam Speer on one team in the SoCon.

The corners of ASU don't get enough credit, their defense allows the safeties, LBs, and d-line to do a lot more and take risks.

[CopperCat]

1.Appalacian State 10-1 (7-0)
2.Furman 8-3 (5-2)
3.Wofford 8-3 (4-3)
4.Georgia Southern 6-5 (4-3)
5.Citadel 5-6 (3-4)
7.Western 4-7 (3-4)
6.Elon 3-8 (1-6)
8.Chatty 3-8 (1-6)

All picks were done with 75% heart 25% head :)

How about a pick with 110% heart?
1. Furman
2. GSU
3. El Cid
4. Elon
5. Chatty
6. Western
7. Wofford
8. App at 1-10 (lone win is at Michigan)
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx
You original picks were probably much more accurate, but I thought it might be a good laugh.

[Mr. C]

I understand what you're saying. I just think, perhaps due to your role as a journalist, you look at the competitive structure of the FCS in too limited a fashion. The strategies teams employ is constantly evolving, on both sides of the ball. What's important is not really the system a team uses, but rather, the system a team uses in the context of their opposition.

Applying that to the instant case: App St took the initiative by adopting the spread. I don't need to talk to Jerry Moore or read what he said to know why he did it. It wasn't because the spread was a more natural fit for his players, though obviously it was important that he be able to match personnel to strategy.

Moore changed the offense because it gave him a competitive advantage. It's no different than in any sport or contest or war. When your enemy builds a centralized command structure (the USSR), you build precision weapons in response (NATO). Moore saw a conference that was geared to stop the run, which at the time predominated, and realized that he could exploit the structure of the league.

He won two titles because he simultaneously built an elite defense. But with regard to his offense, what Mr. C and others perhaps overlook is that schematic advantages erode over time. It spurs other programs to take advantage of the same underlying factors, which in turn directs adaptation on the other side of the ball. That can't be done overnight. But it is happening... with regard to Furman, Lamb has dramatically increased the level of athleticism in his last few classes and taken other measures to better counter the new offensive structures in the SoCon.
If you think the spread, as used by ASU is a pass offense, you really don't understand what teams like ASU and West Virginia are trying to do strategically. The spread is meant move players out of the box and create running lanes for the running backs and quarterback. It is a run-first offense. The passing game compliments the running game. The roots of the spread is in the veer option, developed by Houston coach Bill Yeoman in the 1960s. The veer is pretty similar to the I Formation options that have been at the heart of what Jerry Moore ran at Nebraska and everywhere else he coached afterwards and the offense that Furman has run since the Art Baker days. Jerry Moore's basic coaching philosophy really hasn't changed very much. He believes you have to establish the run to win on a regular basis.

The biggest reason for the change in offense in 2004 was the fact that long-time offensive coordinator Rob Best left following the 2002 season and the young coaches on offense that remained were over their head during 2003. There were problems getting plays called in the press box and on to the field at times and a lot of problems on the offensive line, with players playing out of position and assignments not being executed. Insiders have told me that Moore was looking for something that would help his young offensive staff become better coaches. He also had personnel that fit well into the new offense. Richie Williams ran the offense in high school and DaVon Fowlkes was the perfect slotback for the new attack. The new offense didn't give ASU a competitive advantage in 2004, despite its ability to put points on the scoreboard. The Mountaineers had an injury-plagued defense that was on the field far too much, because ASU often scored too quickly, without a running game to be able to milk the clock late in games. It took until 2005 for the Mountaineers to work the bugs out of the running game with the spread.

As far as defense is concerned, ASU is using the same basic system it has run since 1992 (with the exception of 1997 when David Knaus replaced Ruffin McNeil as defensive coordinator and installed a passive, zone coverage package that didn't work). Once John Wiley became the DC in 1998, they went back to the attack-oriented, man-to-man press coverage style that had been so successful. The ASU defensive system is simple, DTs and LBs worry about the run, with help from the strong safety. DEs rush the heck out of the passer. CBs lock down the wide receivers and the free safety uses his athleticism to do the rest. ASU didn't simultaneously build a great defense. Outside of 1993, 1997 (to a certain extent with Knaus) and 2004, the Mountaineers ALWAYS have been top-notch on the defensive side of the ball.

Thank you for telling me I have such a LIMITED idea of the competitive structure of FCS.

[CopperCat]

Thank you for telling me I have such a LIMITED idea of the competitive structure of FCS.
ASU is ONE team. The competetive structure of the FCS is much bigger than just ASU, so i think that youwouldno has a point. While your knowledge of ASU's system history is extensive, it doesn't talk about anyone else.

You will most likely see some different schemes from SoCon teams when they play ASU because they know that the offensive system ASU has is a bugger to conventionally defend. It only makes sense that a team would do that, because they want to win.

[appfan2008]

ASU has had an unprecidented run of defensive linemen since the Sparky Woods era and Anthony Downs started a string of All-Americans in 1987. In the past 20 years, the Mountaineers have had 12 players on the DL earn All-American status. No FCS program has been as successful at finding and developing players on the defensive front. This year's team has All-SoCon Gary Tharrington back at DE, highly-touted Anthony Williams (he got a lot of playing time backing up Orlebar and Omarr Byrom) at DT, Daniel Finnerty, a promising DT and speedster Tony Robertson at the other DE. If you asked ANY player on the team who the most improved defensive player in spring ball was, they would say Robertson. He had three sacks alone in the spring game. Add to that perhaps the best recruiting class of DL in school history and then the transfer of Tim Washington from LSU (some are saying he is comparable to Jason Hunter) and I don't think ASU has many worries on the defensive front.
xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx

[appfan2008]

ASU is ONE team. The competetive structure of the FCS is much bigger than just ASU, so i think that youwouldno has a point. While your knowledge of ASU's system history is extensive, it doesn't talk about anyone else.

You will most likely see some different schemes from SoCon teams when they play ASU because they know that the offensive system ASU has is a bugger to conventionally defend. It only makes sense that a team would do that, because they want to win.
hey ftg, do you really think teams will be able to come up with a defense to stop richardson, edwards and company???

i am really doubtful till i see it!

[Death Dealer]

1.Appalacian State
2.Furman
3.Wofford
4.Georgia Southern
5.Citadel
7.Western
6.Elon
8.Chatty

We don't beat Appy this year, and we lose at Clemson. Otherwise, we run the table and end up in second. xnodx That gets us into the playoffs and hopefully not another trip in BFE in the first round. xprayx App threepeats in Chatty.xbawlingx

[Mr. C]

ASU is ONE team. The competetive structure of the FCS is much bigger than just ASU, so i think that youwouldno has a point. While your knowledge of ASU's system history is extensive, it doesn't talk about anyone else.

You will most likely see some different schemes from SoCon teams when they play ASU because they know that the offensive system ASU has is a bugger to conventionally defend. It only makes sense that a team would do that, because they want to win.
We were talking about ASU and Furman, not anyone else. So what do you want to know about other teams? This is a SoCon thread, not a thread on ALL of FCS.

You want me to analyze another SoCon team, I'm game. BTW, I watch tape on most teams in FCS, so I am probably as good a person to discuss the overall competititve structure of FCS as anyone.

On the subject of unconventional schemes, the only thing that has slowed down this offense in the past two years is either superior athletes (LSU) or turnovers (Kansas, NC State, Wofford, Georgia Southern to a small extent). Probably the best ANYONE has defended the spread in the past two years was Northern Iowa in the 2005 championship game and that was with Richie Williams slowed by an injury. Kevin Stenserud at nose tackle did a great job clogging the middle as UNI took away that counter stuff on the zone play.

ASU has beaten UMass and its blitzing schemes, Montana State and its odd, flex fronts, JMU's distinct 4-2, with safeties in run support, Southern Illinois' 4-2-5, three-man fronts from a variety of teams, Furman's conservative 4-3 base, you name it. None of them have worked. We are in a period of football like the late 1960s, when teams were still trying to figure out how to handle the wishbone. No one has quite learned how to defeat the spread, unless you just have more speed and more athletes

[appfan2008]

We were talking about ASU and Furman, not anyone else. So what do you want to know about other teams? This is a SoCon thread, not a thread on ALL of FCS.

You want me to analyze another SoCon team, I'm game. BTW, I watch tape on most teams in FCS, so I am probably as good a person to discuss the overall competititve structure of FCS as anyone.

On the subject of unconventional schemes, the only thing that has slowed down this offense in the past two years is either superior athletes (LSU) or turnovers (Kansas, NC State, Wofford, Georgia Southern to a small extent). Probably the best ANYONE has defended the spread in the past two years was Northern Iowa in the 2005 championship game and that was with Richie Williams slowed by an injury. Kevin Stenserud at nose tackle did a great job clogging the middle as UNI took away that counter stuff on the zone play.

ASU has beaten UMass and its blitzing schemes, Montana State and its odd, flex fronts, JMU's distinct 4-2, with safeties in run support, Southern Illinois' 4-2-5, three-man fronts from a variety of teams, Furman's conservative 4-3 base, you name it. None of them have worked. We are in a period of football like the late 1960s, when teams were still trying to figure out how to handle the wishbone. No one has quite learned how to defeat the spread, unless you just have more speed and more athletes
ftg is just trying to pick a fight... we all know you know fcs football and that asu's offense is dang good!

[PaladinFan]

We were talking about ASU and Furman, not anyone else. So what do you want to know about other teams? This is a SoCon thread, not a thread on ALL of FCS.

You want me to analyze another SoCon team, I'm game. BTW, I watch tape on most teams in FCS, so I am probably as good a person to discuss the overall competititve structure of FCS as anyone.

On the subject of unconventional schemes, the only thing that has slowed down this offense in the past two years is either superior athletes (LSU) or turnovers (Kansas, NC State, Wofford, Georgia Southern to a small extent). Probably the best ANYONE has defended the spread in the past two years was Northern Iowa in the 2005 championship game and that was with Richie Williams slowed by an injury. Kevin Stenserud at nose tackle did a great job clogging the middle as UNI took away that counter stuff on the zone play.

ASU has beaten UMass and its blitzing schemes, Montana State and its odd, flex fronts, JMU's distinct 4-2, with safeties in run support, Southern Illinois' 4-2-5, three-man fronts from a variety of teams, Furman's conservative 4-3 base, you name it. None of them have worked. We are in a period of football like the late 1960s, when teams were still trying to figure out how to handle the wishbone. No one has quite learned how to defeat the spread, unless you just have more speed and more athletes

You still act like Furman didn't beat you in 2005. The Paladins lead basically the entire game. And I wouldn't attribute the Kansas loss to turnovers, they beat you pretty solidly.

[appfan2008]

there was a pass interference call on your last possesion of that game that was absolute bull crap... and you know it... if it wasnt for that you dont score that last touchdown and lose that game...

i know it is 2 years ago... but i am still bitter about that play

[CopperCat]

there was a pass interference call on your last possesion of that game that was absolute bull crap... and you know it... if it wasnt for that you dont score that last touchdown and lose that game...

i know it is 2 years ago... but i am still bitter about that play

If I have learned one thing from Mike Kramer, it is that you can't use one bad call from a ref to justify losing a game you had plenty of chances to win. Think about that.

[fuEMO]

Mr C. I don't think your bashing BL or Furman. And I don't think your speed concerns are falling on deaf ears with the Furman coaching staff. As youwouldknow posted earlier speed has been the major point of the last two seasons recruiting.

When Bobby Johnson became HC, Furman took it on the chin against GSU. Sideline to sideline speed GSU whipped our ass. BJ recruited to compete with the Eagles and it worked. Time has changed BL and Furman now face a different SoCon. Spread formations over the I's and Veer's. If your history with Furman is as deep as yours seems with APP you know what type of offense Furman ran with BL at the helm of the Satterfield/Sheridan teams. Yes they were smash mouth but they also could hit you with a 250 yard plus passing attack. BL has recruited speed heavy at skill positions the last two seasons. I can't believe that the SoCon coaches think they have an advantage because Furman signed Parrea, Boykin, Skogen, Baker, Rorech and Cunningham in this years class.

Furman will never abandon the "I" but with a future of Sorrells, Webb, and Mims plus plenty of 6-3 to 6-5 receivers and tightends, Furman will offer multiple looks that will rival any modern day trend offense. I know this is all trivial now, what really matters is during the season. I don't think that speed played as big a role in Furman not displaying dominate play as much as injuries not allowing team cohesiveness, especially on offense. All I'm hoping for is a full season out of our studs, give me a healthy season of Gray, Felton and the rest of the gang and I'll bet on my Paladins anywhere.

[appfan2008]

what about wofford?

everyone is talking furman and app but i am pretty sure wofford will be pushing the top of the conference as well?

anyone agree?

[Death Dealer]

what about wofford?

everyone is talking furman and app but i am pretty sure wofford will be pushing the top of the conference as well?

anyone agree?No doubt, I think Wofford is itching for a fight. They have something to prove after getting woofed last season.

[AndrewFU21]

Reading this thread, you would have thought that FU was coming off a losing season or something. 2006 was a rebuilding year, and even with a number of injuries to key players on the offensive side of the ball, Furman went 6-1 in the SoCon and made it to the playoffs. I would wager that Furman returns more starters than anyone in the conference, and if healthy this team could very well be every bit as good as the 2005 Paladins, and probably not far from the 2004 team. Yes, there are issues that need to be addressed, namely special teams and the offensive line, but I don't think there is anything to panic about. With regard to speed, I think that last year our lack of team speed was exacerbated by poor offensive line play that slowed our running game, which had been used to running over people over the past couple of seasons. On the defensive side of the ball, it was more often our lack of size(height) that got us beat, rather than speed. Otherwise, the 2006 defense was much improved over the 2005 team, giving up 6 less points and 70 less yards per game. If you have followed recruiting, you would see that Bobby Lamb has indeed made speed the top priority over the last few years, especially at the skill positions. I am frustrated sometimes with the coaching philosophy of basically sticking with what worked in the early 1980's, but you can't really argue with the success that the program has had.

And another thing: Appalachian may have the best team in the country, but you are dead ****ing wrong if you think Furman is going to get pushed around by anybody in Paladin Stadium. Since 2003, the only FU loss there was to the eventual national champions in one of the most odd football games I have ever attended. It's easy to say that speed trumps size when Furman had the strongest, most powerful man in FCS football siting on the sidelines last year in Boone.

[Mr. C]

You still act like Furman didn't beat you in 2005. The Paladins lead basically the entire game. And I wouldn't attribute the Kansas loss to turnovers, they beat you pretty solidly.
First off, I don't PLAY for Appalachian State, so no team has beaten me solidly. If you are talking about my alma mater, Fresno State, maybe I'd accept that teams beat my team.

You misread my post. I attributed the Kansas loss to turnovers and talent. Kevin Richardson fumbled on his way to the end zone, without a hit to cost ASU a TD on the opening drive and Julian Rauch missed a chip-shot field goal in the first half that would have made it a tie game at the very least, heading to the second half.

I didn't take anything away from Furman's 2005 victoryin my earlier posts. But your defense didn't win that game. Ingle Martin and the offense did. Your defense got torched in that game and Richie Williams simply ran out of time, or he would have had another game-winning TD. It took two controversial calls (the pass interference call that is clearly offensive PI on all of the tapes and the blown call when the official called Jermane Little out of bounds on what would have been a kickoff return for a TD — I have game and team DVDs of this contest and both calls were CLEARLY wrong) and a tremendous special teams play (William Freeman's tip of Julian Rauch's field goal that would have sent the game to OT). As fortunate as ASU has been to win several games in Boone in recent years, Furman had its own MOJO in the 2005 game.

The point was that Northern Iowa is really the ONLY FCS team that has slowed down the spread in two years. UNI and Wofford have held ASU's offense to 14 points. No one else in FCS has held ASU to under 20 points and only one other (JMU) has held them to less than 24. With Armanti Edwards starting at QB, the Mountaineers averaged 38 points per game.

[youwouldno]

If you think the spread, as used by ASU is a pass offense, you really don't understand what teams like ASU and West Virginia are trying to do strategically. The spread is meant move players out of the box and create running lanes for the running backs and quarterback. It is a run-first offense. The passing game compliments the running game. The roots of the spread is in the veer option, developed by Houston coach Bill Yeoman in the 1960s. The veer is pretty similar to the I Formation options that have been at the heart of what Jerry Moore ran at Nebraska and everywhere else he coached afterwards and the offense that Furman has run since the Art Baker days. Jerry Moore's basic coaching philosophy really hasn't changed very much. He believes you have to establish the run to win on a regular basis.

The biggest reason for the change in offense in 2004 was the fact that long-time offensive coordinator Rob Best left following the 2002 season and the young coaches on offense that remained were over their head during 2003. There were problems getting plays called in the press box and on to the field at times and a lot of problems on the offensive line, with players playing out of position and assignments not being executed. Insiders have told me that Moore was looking for something that would help his young offensive staff become better coaches. He also had personnel that fit well into the new offense. Richie Williams ran the offense in high school and DaVon Fowlkes was the perfect slotback for the new attack. The new offense didn't give ASU a competitive advantage in 2004, despite its ability to put points on the scoreboard. The Mountaineers had an injury-plagued defense that was on the field far too much, because ASU often scored too quickly, without a running game to be able to milk the clock late in games. It took until 2005 for the Mountaineers to work the bugs out of the running game with the spread.

As far as defense is concerned, ASU is using the same basic system it has run since 1992 (with the exception of 1997 when David Knaus replaced Ruffin McNeil as defensive coordinator and installed a passive, zone coverage package that didn't work). Once John Wiley became the DC in 1998, they went back to the attack-oriented, man-to-man press coverage style that had been so successful. The ASU defensive system is simple, DTs and LBs worry about the run, with help from the strong safety. DEs rush the heck out of the passer. CBs lock down the wide receivers and the free safety uses his athleticism to do the rest. ASU didn't simultaneously build a great defense. Outside of 1993, 1997 (to a certain extent with Knaus) and 2004, the Mountaineers ALWAYS have been top-notch on the defensive side of the ball.

Thank you for telling me I have such a LIMITED idea of the competitive structure of FCS.

If you had read more closely, you might have noticed I never said the spread was pass-first. I should have specified that the SoCon was oriented towards stopping more traditional running attacks and also the trip option. Furman tended to have prototype LB's for doing just that... prioritizing size and run stopping at the expense of coverage ability. Of course App's new offense didn't work perfectly right away-- that is one of the costs of innovation. There is always going to be a transition period, in this case fairly brief.

If App magically was transported across the country, and played in the Big Sky, Moore never would have changed to the spread offense, because defenses in that league are more oriented towards speed. There may have been other factors involved but all good coaches look for opportunities to gain a schematic advantage on their opponents. Frankly, your interpretation is much less favorable to Moore than mine... you essentially paint Moore as somewhat lucky, in that a number of circumstances came together to force a change.

Your comments on App's defense are bizarre and facially wrong. Yes, App St usually has a good defense... but in 2004 App St gave up more than 50 points 3 times, and 40 on another occasion. That's not dominant defense. Were that defense to have continued into '05 and '06, App would not have won titles. Your understanding of language is very limited if that means App "always" has a great defense.

What's funny about Mr. C's flawed understanding is that it isn't about defending App St from criticism-- if anything I am more favorable towards Moore than he is. It's just a situation where Mr. C claims to be the authority on everything, when in fact he falls victim to the same mentality as do many journalists... the notion their contact with 'insiders' gives them an ultimate and indisputable perspective on everything they cover. Most football fans really do not look at the sport in a very analytical or rigorous way. Attention is given more so to the 'human' aspect, which is the domain of journalists. No matter how much journalists talk to insiders, you don't see professional franchises hire them as advisers.

It's one thing to understand what others say, and something totally different to have a legitimate understanding of the sport. Of course, Coulson is also a huge App St homer, who constantly discounts things like Furman's '05 win over App while finding excuses for App at every turn. On the other hand, I look at football the same way I look at baseball, the same way I look at legal questions or anything else. Everyone follows the same basic rules... incentive structures, institutions, organizations, it's all the same, just with different contexts. Some contexts are obviously much more interesting than others... the FCS is terrific.

[Mr. C]

Reading this thread, you would have thought that FU was coming off a losing season or something. 2006 was a rebuilding year, and even with a number of injuries to key players on the offensive side of the ball, Furman went 6-1 in the SoCon and made it to the playoffs. I would wager that Furman returns more starters than anyone in the conference, and if healthy this team could very well be every bit as good as the 2005 Paladins, and probably not far from the 2004 team. Yes, there are issues that need to be addressed, namely special teams and the offensive line, but I don't think there is anything to panic about. With regard to speed, I think that last year our lack of team speed was exacerbated by poor offensive line play that slowed our running game, which had been used to running over people over the past couple of seasons. On the defensive side of the ball, it was more often our lack of size(height) that got us beat, rather than speed. Otherwise, the 2006 defense was much improved over the 2005 team, giving up 6 less points and 70 less yards per game. If you have followed recruiting, you would see that Bobby Lamb has indeed made speed the top priority over the last few years, especially at the skill positions. I am frustrated sometimes with the coaching philosophy of basically sticking with what worked in the early 1980's, but you can't really argue with the success that the program has had.

And another thing: Appalachian may have the best team in the country, but you are dead ******* wrong if you think Furman is going to get pushed around by anybody in Paladin Stadium. Since 2003, the only FU loss there was to the eventual national champions in one of the most odd football games I have ever attended. It's easy to say that speed trumps size when Furman had the strongest, most powerful man in FCS football siting on the sidelines last year in Boone.
No one is trashing your team. You folks have such thin skins. It isn't good enough to say you have one of the top 15 or so teams in FCS. Again, I am saying ASU is a clear favorite for the national championship and that the SoCon will be extremely competitive from second through seventh. I think Furman will most likely finish second or third in the SoCon and be in the hunt for a playoff berth.

To say that Furman could be BETTER than the 2005 squad is kind of ridiculous. The 2004-2005 squads came within a couple of fluky plays of probably winning back-to-back national championships. You had the best QB in school history, Ingle Martin (yes, I know about guys like David Whitehurst and Sam Wyche, saw both of them play professionally). Neither Gray (who is one of my favorite players ever at Furman, personally) or Sorrels is Ingle Martin. The 2006 Paladin team sputtered into the playoffs and was definitely a flawed team. Even with Jerome Felton in the lineup, Furman would have had to score more than 40 points to have beaten ASU in Boone. The game was a rout in the second half. ASU called off the dogs in the fourth quarter, or it would have been worse. For the 2007 Paladins to be better, they will have to improve a lot defensively, be consistent on offense, develop better offensive line play, improve their passing attack, do much better on special teams and avoid injuries. Considering that you play Clemson and Appalachian State and a competitive SoCon schedule, 9-2 would be a brilliant record and 8-3 or 7-4 would be a lot more likely.

[Eagle22]

Furman plays @ GSU. Even in the death throes of a horrid 3-8 season last year, the Eagles gave the Paladins a game in Greenville.

I think it will take a special effort coupled with multiple GSU miscues along the lines of their 2001 playoff win @ Paulson, to walk out of Statesboro with a win in 2007.

[Mr. C]

If you had read more closely, you might have noticed I never said the spread was pass-first. I should have specified that the SoCon was oriented towards stopping more traditional running attacks and also the trip option. Furman tended to have prototype LB's for doing just that... prioritizing size and run stopping at the expense of coverage ability. Of course App's new offense didn't work perfectly right away-- that is one of the costs of innovation. There is always going to be a transition period, in this case fairly brief.

If App magically was transported across the country, and played in the Big Sky, Moore never would have changed to the spread offense, because defenses in that league are more oriented towards speed. There may have been other factors involved but all good coaches look for opportunities to gain a schematic advantage on their opponents. Frankly, your interpretation is much less favorable to Moore than mine... you essentially paint Moore as somewhat lucky, in that a number of circumstances came together to force a change.

Your comments on App's defense are bizarre and facially wrong. Yes, App St usually has a good defense... but in 2004 App St gave up more than 50 points 3 times, and 40 on another occasion. That's not dominant defense. Were that defense to have continued into '05 and '06, App would not have won titles. Your understanding of language is very limited if that means App "always" has a great defense.

What's funny about Mr. C's flawed understanding is that it isn't about defending App St from criticism-- if anything I am more favorable towards Moore than he is. It's just a situation where Mr. C claims to be the authority on everything, when in fact he falls victim to the same mentality as do many journalists... the notion their contact with 'insiders' gives them an ultimate and indisputable perspective on everything they cover. Most football fans really do not look at the sport in a very analytical or rigorous way. Attention is given more so to the 'human' aspect, which is the domain of journalists. No matter how much journalists talk to insiders, you don't see professional franchises hire them as advisers.

It's one thing to understand what others say, and something totally different to have a legitimate understanding of the sport. Of course, Coulson is also a huge App St homer, who constantly discounts things like Furman's '05 win over App while finding excuses for App at every turn. On the other hand, I look at football the same way I look at baseball, the same way I look at legal questions or anything else. Everyone follows the same basic rules... incentive structures, institutions, organizations, it's all the same, just with different contexts. Some contexts are obviously much more interesting than others... the FCS is terrific.
Here we go again.

1. I don't see anywhere that I was taking credit away from Jerry Moore. I have plenty that I've written on the subject in newspapers, magazines and in the book that will be released in a few weeks that paint Moore in a very favorable, yet honest light. If you care to do some research, you will see it.

2. I don't think ASU would be scared to compete in the Big Sky with its spread offense. And frankly, the Mountaineers have more speed than anyone in that conference, just like they do against everyone else in FCS. I guess you missed the game with Montana State, a team that had blown out Furman a week earlier and had come within one overthrown pass in the end zone of beating Montana the week before that (would have meant the Bobcats would have shared the Big Sky title).

3. You didn't say anything about traditional rushing attacks in your earlier post. I appreciate your clarification.

4. On the 2004 ASU defense, two All-Americans, safety Corey Lynch and defensive end Jason Hunter missed all or most of the season. They also lost their top three CBs to injuries (Dominique Dingle) or other problems (All-SoCon performer Jonathan Lyles and highly-touted prospect Gerald Kennedy) and had to start freshmen in their places (Jerome Touchstone and Justin Wozeah). These problems forced them to start an All-SoCon-caliber linebacker Monte Smith out of position at DE. Is it any wonder that ASU struggled defensively in 2004? Like I said before ASU is almost always great defensively. To those of us who knew what ASU had coming back, the play of the defense in 2005 was NO surprise. Might have been why I was the only one who had ASU ranked in the top 10 of my preseason polls in 2005. If your going to question my understanding of language, I guess you failed to read where I said that ASU always has had a great defense from 1992 onwards, except in 1993, 1997 (to a certain extent) and 2004. Guess you missed that part.

You attack my expertise, yet you don't offer much to show that you know more about this stuff than I do. Do you analyze game tape every week for a variety of teams? Do you see tape of most of the teams in FCS? Have you been covering college football at ALL levels for 30 years? Why are you more qualified to talk about this stuff than me? Put your money where your mouth is and let us know what your tremendous credentials are.

[Mr. C]

what about wofford?

everyone is talking furman and app but i am pretty sure wofford will be pushing the top of the conference as well?

anyone agree?
I'm putting Wofford in my national top-10 for my preseason polls. And I'm picking the Terriers to finish second in the SoCon and make the playoffs. This is a team that will be senior dominated and closed out the season with five consecutive wins. When Mike Ayers has experience, his teams wins. The last time they were in this boat, they won the SoCon championship and advanced to the semifinals in 2003, losing to eventual national champion Delaware on the road. Wofford will be a VERY dangerous team in 2007.

[PaladinFan]

Furman plays @ GSU. Even in the death throes of a horrid 3-8 season last year, the Eagles gave the Paladins a game in Greenville.

I think it will take a special effort coupled with multiple GSU miscues along the lines of their 2001 playoff win @ Paulson, to walk out of Statesboro with a win in 2007.

Your defense played stellar against a injury depleted Paladin offense. The Eagle offense was completely stymied except for a missed tackle on Jayson Foster leading to a big play. Anyway, it's a rivalry game, they are always close. xsmiley_wix

All that said, Furman will come to Statesboro with the better club. However, that doesn't always translate to wins (2005 is a prime example).

[PaladinFan]

I'm putting Wofford in my national top-10 for my preseason polls. And I'm picking the Terriers to finish second in the SoCon and make the playoffs. This is a team that will be senior dominated and closed out the season with five consecutive wins. When Mike Ayers has experience, his teams wins. The last time they were in this boat, they won the SoCon championship and advanced to the semifinals in 2003, losing to eventual national champion Delaware on the road. Wofford will be a VERY dangerous team in 2007.

You still haven't responded to any of what I posted about Wofford and Furman.

[Mr. C]

Mr C. I don't think your bashing BL or Furman. And I don't think your speed concerns are falling on deaf ears with the Furman coaching staff. As youwouldknow posted earlier speed has been the major point of the last two seasons recruiting.

When Bobby Johnson became HC, Furman took it on the chin against GSU. Sideline to sideline speed GSU whipped our ass. BJ recruited to compete with the Eagles and it worked. Time has changed BL and Furman now face a different SoCon. Spread formations over the I's and Veer's. If your history with Furman is as deep as yours seems with APP you know what type of offense Furman ran with BL at the helm of the Satterfield/Sheridan teams. Yes they were smash mouth but they also could hit you with a 250 yard plus passing attack. BL has recruited speed heavy at skill positions the last two seasons. I can't believe that the SoCon coaches think they have an advantage because Furman signed Parrea, Boykin, Skogen, Baker, Rorech and Cunningham in this years class.

Furman will never abandon the "I" but with a future of Sorrells, Webb, and Mims plus plenty of 6-3 to 6-5 receivers and tightends, Furman will offer multiple looks that will rival any modern day trend offense. I know this is all trivial now, what really matters is during the season. I don't think that speed played as big a role in Furman not displaying dominate play as much as injuries not allowing team cohesiveness, especially on offense. All I'm hoping for is a full season out of our studs, give me a healthy season of Gray, Felton and the rest of the gang and I'll bet on my Paladins anywhere.
Thank you. I attended my first game at Paladin Stadium in 1993 (saw Philly Jones, a very nice, classy young man, quarterback Furman to a come-from-behind win in the final minutes) and have been well aware of the Paladins ever since. I also am well versed in Furman history, considering that SID-supreme Rick Covington taught me plenty about all of those old days with Dick Sheridan etc. Current Paladin SID Hunter Reid is on the top of my list of SIDs around the country. You are lucky that you have had such excellent people getting information out about your program over the years.

BTW, Bobby Lamb has always been one of the most accessable coaches in FCS. I wish ALL coaches were as easy to deal with as Lamb is.

On systems, I know that Lamb helped open the Furman offense up a bit during the Billy Napier days, as OC and head coach, and I know the I has been the thing since Art Baker. But it might be time to look at some other offensive wrinkles. The Paladins sure get predictable at times. Defensively, I have found Furman to be way too conservative over the years. You see fewer adjustments by the Paladins on defense than almost any team in the SoCon (other than the horrendously coached Georgia Southern team last season, where VanGorder seemed to refuse, or was too stupid, or arrogant to adjust to what opponents were doing). I'd like to see Furman play more aggressively on the defensive side of the ball. Cover 2 and rushing four down-linemen 90% of the time can be beaten by some of the better teams.

It will be interesting to see how Furman looks on the speed aspect this season, considering what you are reporting.

[Mr. C]

I posted these statistics on another post. Furman is 74-47-7 all time against Wofford. 4-1 under Bobby Lamb. Only twice since 1999 has WC held FU under 30 points. Mike Ayers (a great coach) holds a very meager 2-11-1 record against Furman since his tenure at WC began in '87. Any person that puts Wofford ahead of Furman after the two consecutive drubbings we've given them is just nuts.

People people like to say history doesn't mean anything. I completely disagree. History tells us what we should expect. Furman has a good team, App has a good team. They've met up with good teams in the past and Furman wins in Greenville 90% of the time. Not saying they will this year, but it is certainly something to look at. Also remember Furman has lost only once at home since the start of the 2004 season.

You still haven't responded to any of what I posted about Wofford and Furman.
Not trying to avoid your historical points. Been dueling youwouldno instead.

History only takes you so far. Who is to say that this isn't the year where the Terriers beat Furman again? Wofford has its best team since 2002-03. The Terriers beat Furman in 2003 in a tight game and were knocking on the door to beat Furman in 2002 when the game ended. Had the 2002 game not been played in a monsoon, I think Wofford would have won that one. I felt like that Terrier team, which beat both Appalachian State and Georgia Southern on the road, was the best team in the SoCon that year. A win over Furman would have given the Terriers the SoCon title in 2002. Another thing to consider, last year was the first time since Wofford entered the league that Wofford had played Furman without Georgia Southern having been on the schedule the week before. With a talented, experienced team this season, it will be interesting to see how teams do against Wofford without that extra week to work on the option in practice. Mike Ayers thinks that is a big advantage for Wofford. Personally, I think the Wofford-Furman and Citadel-Furman games (remember the last time the Paladins went to Charleston?) will be great games.

[youwouldno]

Here we go again.

1. I don't see anywhere that I was taking credit away from Jerry Moore. I have plenty that I've written on the subject in newspapers, magazines and in the book that will be released in a few weeks that paint Moore in a very favorable, yet honest light. If you care to do some research, you will see it.

2. I don't think ASU would be scared to compete in the Big Sky with its spread offense. And frankly, the Mountaineers have more speed than anyone in that conference, just like they do against everyone else in FCS. I guess you missed the game with Montana State, a team that had blown out Furman a week earlier and had come within one overthrown pass in the end zone of beating Montana the week before that (would have meant the Bobcats would have shared the Big Sky title).

3. You didn't say anything about traditional rushing attacks in your earlier post. I appreciate your clarification.

4. On the 2004 ASU defense, two All-Americans, safety Corey Lynch and defensive end Jason Hunter missed all or most of the season. They also lost their top three CBs to injuries (Dominique Dingle) or other problems (All-SoCon performer Jonathan Lyles and highly-touted prospect Gerald Kennedy) and had to start freshmen in their places (Jerome Touchstone and Justin Wozeah). These problems forced them to start an All-SoCon-caliber linebacker Monte Smith out of position at DE. Is it any wonder that ASU struggled defensively in 2004? Like I said before ASU is almost always great defensively. To those of us who knew what ASU had coming back, the play of the defense in 2005 was NO surprise. Might have been why I was the only one who had ASU ranked in the top 10 of my preseason polls in 2005. If your going to question my understanding of language, I guess you failed to read where I said that ASU always has had a great defense from 1992 onwards, except in 1993, 1997 (to a certain extent) and 2004. Guess you missed that part.

You attack my expertise, yet you don't offer much to show that you know more about this stuff than I do. Do you analyze game tape every week for a variety of teams? Do you see tape of most of the teams in FCS? Have you been covering college football at ALL levels for 30 years? Why are you more qualified to talk about this stuff than me? Put your money where your mouth is and let us know what your tremendous credentials are.

1. We agree Moore is a great coach.

2. I'm sure App would not be scared of the Big Sky. That has nothing to do with anything. My point was that App St would have, at least, gained less of a schematic advantage with the spread in the Big Sky. The purpose of the counterfactual was to highlight one reason for App St's offensive success, which was that SoCon defenses were especially susceptible to that kind of offensive approach. This is just another example of me saying something obviously correct and you attacking Furman, which had zero to do with it. Your App homerism really shows here... I was not at all criticizing App.

3. You're welcome.

4. App St always has a great defense, except for when they don't. Um, no kidding. Furman always has a great offense, except for when they don't. Injuries are part of the game and they could have happened in 2005 or 2006, as well.

5. You rag on others for getting defensive, but here again you do exactly that. I did not criticize how you do your job, and in fact in the past I've made comments in defense of you when others were indeed criticizing. The fact is, watching a sport for a long time does not make you an expert prognosticator or analyst. Plenty of people that have made a living covering a sport for decades believe things that are not really true. That extends to the General Managers of some franchises (MLB's Mariners under Bavasi are a sad current example).

Football is not my job. I follow it out of interest. I challenge myself by betting, not to make money but to measure my understanding (even though I always come out way ahead, it's not close to worth the time investment in money terms). Obviously it doesn't prove anything to anyone else. I'd be more than happy to go head-to-head against you in a prediction contest, either preseason or week by week. That's what I'm talking about here. When it comes to knowing the personalities and history, you have infinitely more expertise than I, and I have never suggested otherwise.

What I am saying is that it doesn't make you Nostradamus. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, in a friendly, no-money involved competition (terms to be discussed should you accept).

[AndrewFU21]

I'm curious as to why you have Wofford picked over Furman in 2007, Mr. C. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm interested in why you feel this way.

I attended the game in Spartanburg last year, and it was close by no means. Furman was physically dominant in the game, and it was only a blocked punt for a touchdown at the end that made it a 14 point margin. With Furman returning close to everyone from last year, what is Wofford doing that will leap them above the Paladins in 2007?

[PaladinFan]

I will interject again that Mike Ayers is 2-11-1 against Furman.

[Eagle22]

Your defense played stellar against a injury depleted Paladin offense. The Eagle offense was completely stymied except for a missed tackle on Jayson Foster leading to a big play. Anyway, it's a rivalry game, they are always close. xsmiley_wix

All that said, Furman will come to Statesboro with the better club. However, that doesn't always translate to wins (2005 is a prime example).

The Eagle offense was stymied in 2006 against everyone other than CCU, mostly hamstrung by an marginal OC over-ruled frequently by a overbearing HC.

Our defense last year wasn't bad (ask App), and while we have no John Morhing in the middle of the field this year, I don't think there will be much of a dropoff on that side of the ball.

Offensively, we'll be much improved.

[thirdgendin]

\Defensively, I have found Furman to be way too conservative over the years. You see fewer adjustments by the Paladins on defense than almost any team in the SoCon (other than the horrendously coached Georgia Southern team last season, where VanGorder seemed to refuse, or was too stupid, or arrogant to adjust to what opponents were doing). I'd like to see Furman play more aggressively on the defensive side of the ball. Cover 2 and rushing four down-linemen 90% of the time can be beaten by some of the better teams.

It will be interesting to see how Furman looks on the speed aspect this season, considering what you are reporting.

You will find no objections here regarding Furman's defensive philosophy. It drives most Paladin fans crazy every year! The problem is, deep down, I don't know if we have the type of defensive backs you need to be more aggressive on defense.

[phillyAPP]

If I have learned one thing from Mike Kramer, it is that you can't use one bad call from a ref to justify losing a game you had plenty of chances to win. Think about that.

I agree TOTALLY

[OL FU]

1. ASU
2. FU
3. WC
4. Citadel
5. GSU
6. Elon
7. Chatt
8. WCU

I agree 2 thru 5 maybe thru 6 is gonna be a mixed up jumbled up world.

FU advantage over Wofford with the home game
However, I think the Citadel has both FU and WC at home.
The wildcard ( again ) is GSU. We know you will have a better coach but it is still his first year after a disaster. You could be the big surprise, but I don't pick surprisesxsmiley_wix

[OL FU]

No one is trashing your team. You folks have such thin skins. It isn't good enough to say you have one of the top 15 or so teams in FCS. Again, I am saying ASU is a clear favorite for the national championship and that the SoCon will be extremely competitive from second through seventh. I think Furman will most likely finish second or third in the SoCon and be in the hunt for a playoff berth.

To say that Furman could be BETTER than the 2005 squad is kind of ridiculous. The 2004-2005 squads came within a couple of fluky plays of probably winning back-to-back national championships. You had the best QB in school history, Ingle Martin (yes, I know about guys like David Whitehurst and Sam Wyche, saw both of them play professionally). Neither Gray (who is one of my favorite players ever at Furman, personally) or Sorrels is Ingle Martin. The 2006 Paladin team sputtered into the playoffs and was definitely a flawed team. Even with Jerome Felton in the lineup, Furman would have had to score more than 40 points to have beaten ASU in Boone. The game was a rout in the second half. ASU called off the dogs in the fourth quarter, or it would have been worse. For the 2007 Paladins to be better, they will have to improve a lot defensively, be consistent on offense, develop better offensive line play, improve their passing attack, do much better on special teams and avoid injuries. Considering that you play Clemson and Appalachian State and a competitive SoCon schedule, 9-2 would be a brilliant record and 8-3 or 7-4 would be a lot more likely.


Good choice of wordsxnodx xsmiley_wix

[phillyAPP]

1. ASU
2. FU
3. WC
4. Citadel
5. GSU
6. Elon
7. Chatt
8. WCU

I agree 2 thru 5 maybe thru 6 is gonna be a mixed up jumbled up world.

FU advantage over Wofford with the home game
However, I think the Citadel has both FU and WC at home.
The wildcard ( again ) is GSU. We know you will have a better coach but it is still his first year after a disaster. You could be the big surprise, but I don't pick surprisesxsmiley_wix


I think that your right on the money. 2-5 is going to be a week to week jumble. Injuries are going to play a part.

AND "Any Given Saturday" will be the scenario in the SoCon this year !!!

[OL FU]

I think that your right on the money. 2-5 is going to be a week to week jumble. Injuries are going to play a part.

AND "Any Given Saturday" will be the scenario in the SoCon this year !!!
I really wish I could say that I thought first place was up for grabs and of course it always is even if it really isn'txeyebrowx xbawlingx

[Sir William]

And another thing: Appalachian may have the best team in the country, but you are dead ****ing wrong if you think Furman is going to get pushed around by anybody in Paladin Stadium. Since 2003, the only FU loss there was to the eventual national champions in one of the most odd football games I have ever attended. It's easy to say that speed trumps size when Furman had the strongest, most powerful man in FCS football siting on the sidelines last year in Boone.

That's exactly right! xnodx xnodx xnodx

[phillyAPP]

I really wish I could say that I thought first place was up for grabs and of course it always is even if it really isn'txeyebrowx xbawlingx

The only reason #1 MAY NOT be a big question mark is APP has enough depth to have injuries and still win.

Its getting scary for me, the negative philly side of me worries about how long it will last. But I think i can ride this wave ALL the WAY into shore.

xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[phillyAPP]

That's exactly right! xnodx xnodx xnodx

Are you saying THE BIGGEST MAN IN the FCS/ or one player makes or breaks whether Furman wins or loses?

Coach Lambs play calling may have had a bigger impact? I think?

[appfan2008]

The only reason #1 MAY NOT be a big question mark is APP has enough depth to have injuries and still win.

Its getting scary for me, the negative philly side of me worries about how long it will last. But I think i can ride this wave ALL the WAY into shore.

xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx
i think things slump a little bit after this year...

think of all we lose after this year...
all 4 dbs
i believe one starting lb
2 or 3 ol
and an all american rb
there may be a couple more but we may be really hurting in the secondary in 2008

[PaladinFan]

Are you saying THE BIGGEST MAN IN the FCS/ or one player makes or breaks whether Furman wins or loses?

Coach Lambs play calling may have had a bigger impact? I think?

I really was out on how big a cog Jerome Felton played in our offense until he got hurt last year. Every game that Felton is not 100% Furman is not the same team. Even the 2005 GSU game he was playing with a broken hand.

There is probably no player in the FCS more crucial to his team's success than Jerome Felton is to Furman. I think, however, that we have a more suitable "felton-like" backup this year in Tharry Salley who, hopefully, can take some of the load off #45. For as often as he carries the ball and the kind of punishment he takes in the middle of the field, Jerome is incredibly tough and resilient. Last year it just took a toll.

[james_lawfirm]

I really was out on how big a cog Jerome Felton played in our offense until he got hurt last year. Every game that Felton is not 100% Furman is not the same team. Even the 2005 GSU game he was playing with a broken hand.

There is probably no player in the FCS more crucial to his team's success than Jerome Felton is to Furman. I think, however, that we have a more suitable "felton-like" backup this year in Tharry Salley who, hopefully, can take some of the load off #45. For as often as he carries the ball and the kind of punishment he takes in the middle of the field, Jerome is incredibly tough and resilient. Last year it just took a toll.


Paladin:
I understand your point. Felton is a player to be reckoned with. Too bad he could not play in Boone last time, except for those weird decoy plays. But, if you are following your logic to its conclusion, that Furman beats ASU with Felton, then my reply is that U.Mass. thought EXACTLY the same thing with their FB Buckley. Their first drive of the Nat'l Champ. game was worrisome (it looked like we could not stop him). But, that was all he had, and the rest is history.

Looking forward to the game in Spartanburg vs. ASU. THAT may be the best game of the year before the playoffs.

[Death Dealer]

Hey, I'm as much of an FU homer as anyone on this planet, and nothing would make me happier than to see Appy crumble and fall from their perch! But, did any of you guys watch the game last year, or for that matter, any Appy game? They weren't even in any danger for most of the season. And as much as I hate them, they are basically the same team this year. Only a miracle could give us the victory over them this year. But, miracles do happen. We went to Paulson a few years ago, primed to win a NC. We had a better team and everyone just knew it was a forgone conclusion that we would win. xoopsx So, Hell may freeze over that day in G'ville, but I won't be putting any money on it.xsmhx





And I don't feel disloyal to my team for saying that. I think it is just realistic based upon all I saw last year.

[PaladinFan]

Paladin:
I understand your point. Felton is a player to be reckoned with. Too bad he could not play in Boone last time, except for those weird decoy plays. But, if you are following your logic to its conclusion, that Furman beats ASU with Felton, then my reply is that U.Mass. thought EXACTLY the same thing with their FB Buckley. Their first drive of the Nat'l Champ. game was worrisome (it looked like we could not stop him). But, that was all he had, and the rest is history.

Looking forward to the game in Spartanburg vs. ASU. THAT may be the best game of the year before the playoffs.

My logical conclusion doesn't say that Furman would have won. In fact, I still think Furman would have lost. It is merely to say that Furman is a different football team with Jerome Felton playing full speed. Would the game have been a blowout? I think certainly not. Remember Furman was in position to go into the halftime with the lead before the fieldgoal block.

I don't think comparing Buckley to Felton is warranted either. I'm sure he is a fine runner, but Felton is, by many estimations, one of the best fullbacks in all of college football. He has had several good games against Appalachian. Few teams have been able to stymie him, and those that do are usually picked apart through the air (a la Richmond in '05).

[appfan2008]

Hey, I'm as much of an FU homer as anyone on this planet, and nothing would make me happier than to see Appy crumble and fall from their perch! But, did any of you guys watch the game last year, or for that matter, any Appy game? They weren't even in any danger for most of the season. And as much as I hate them, they are basically the same team this year. Only a miracle could give us the victory over them this year. But, miracles do happen. We went to Paulson a few years ago, primed to win a NC. We had a better team and everyone just knew it was a forgone conclusion that we would win. xoopsx So, Hell may freeze over that day in G'ville, but I won't be putting any money on it.xsmhx





And I don't feel disloyal to my team for saying that. I think it is just realistic based upon all I saw last year.
xnodx as a homer for the other side i must agre... the only times that we were challanged last year were the 14-7 wofford game... and the gsu game where we always have trouble at paulson... with most of our top players back, it would be silly not to have us at the top again... thanks for your honesty

[jhbeagle]

I say we can finish either 3rd or last depending on if we can kick XP's and FG's! :)

[AndrewFU21]

Paladin:
I understand your point. Felton is a player to be reckoned with. Too bad he could not play in Boone last time, except for those weird decoy plays. But, if you are following your logic to its conclusion, that Furman beats ASU with Felton, then my reply is that U.Mass. thought EXACTLY the same thing with their FB Buckley. Their first drive of the Nat'l Champ. game was worrisome (it looked like we could not stop him). But, that was all he had, and the rest is history.

Looking forward to the game in Spartanburg vs. ASU. THAT may be the best game of the year before the playoffs.

The point was not to say that FU would have won with a healthy Felton. The point was that if you are saying that speed is so important, and it is a big reason for ASU's success against FU, you cannot omit that the J-Train, who has been perhaps the biggest matchup problem for ASU's defensive speed, was sitting on the sidelines. In other words, it is easy to say that FU doesn't have the speed to match up with ASU, when FU was without its best weapon to counter a defense built on speed.

[Black Saturday]

I think that you would, however, be hard pressed to find a better linebacking unit than Furman's. MLB Andrew Jones might just be the best out there.

ASU's secondary is certainly very good. A large part of their success, however, has to be attributed to the front four getting pressure and forcing errant throws.


Man, thank you for understanding this issue that so many overlook about APPs defense.xthumbsupx We must remember, the play begins at the line of scrimmage and a large part of the 7 back(ers) successes come from the play of the DEFENSIVE FRONT.

Sure APP has some danged good and great players behind the line.....because of the FRONT FOUR.

[james_lawfirm]

The point was not to say that FU would have won with a healthy Felton. The point was that if you are saying that speed is so important, and it is a big reason for ASU's success against FU, you cannot omit that the J-Train, who has been perhaps the biggest matchup problem for ASU's defensive speed, was sitting on the sidelines. In other words, it is easy to say that FU doesn't have the speed to match up with ASU, when FU was without its best weapon to counter a defense built on speed.


I understand. Speed vs. Size. And my point was that I have heard that before - a bunch. Not only U.Mass., but YSU, Mont. State, etc. EVERYONE in the playoffs in '06 seemed to say "where the heck are your BIG guys. You all are going to get squashed by (fill in name of a large person)." Did not happen.

And, my response to Paladin was to politely suggest that the ASU v. Furman game will be a good one AND one that again showcases speed v. size. Can't wait.

[Black Saturday]

Reading this thread, you would have thought that FU was coming off a losing season or something. 2006 was a rebuilding year, and even with a number of injuries to key players on the offensive side of the ball, Furman went 6-1 in the SoCon and made it to the playoffs. I would wager that Furman returns more starters than anyone in the conference, and if healthy this team could very well be every bit as good as the 2005 Paladins, and probably not far from the 2004 team. Yes, there are issues that need to be addressed, namely special teams and the offensive line, but I don't think there is anything to panic about. With regard to speed, I think that last year our lack of team speed was exacerbated by poor offensive line play that slowed our running game, which had been used to running over people over the past couple of seasons. On the defensive side of the ball, it was more often our lack of size(height) that got us beat, rather than speed. Otherwise, the 2006 defense was much improved over the 2005 team, giving up 6 less points and 70 less yards per game. If you have followed recruiting, you would see that Bobby Lamb has indeed made speed the top priority over the last few years, especially at the skill positions. I am frustrated sometimes with the coaching philosophy of basically sticking with what worked in the early 1980's, but you can't really argue with the success that the program has had.

And another thing: Appalachian may have the best team in the country, but you are dead ****ing wrong if you think Furman is going to get pushed around by anybody in Paladin Stadium. Since 2003, the only FU loss there was to the eventual national champions in one of the most odd football games I have ever attended. It's easy to say that speed trumps size when Furman had the strongest, most powerful man in FCS football siting on the sidelines last year in Boone.

With all you Furmies talking about history and what to expect, I am really looking forward to the matchup in your fine venue because when my team wins there in October means we are definitely gonna thre-peat.xsmiley_wix

[OL FU]

With all you Furmies talking about history and what to expect, I am really looking forward to the matchup in your fine venue because when my team wins there in October means we are definitely gonna thre-peat.xsmiley_wix

And the bad thing about that is WHEN YOU LOSE you still may three-peatxrolleyesx

[appfan2008]

And the bad thing about that is WHEN YOU LOSE you still may three-peatxrolleyesx
tis true... a loss at greenville is not the end of the world in chase for a third straight of both the socon championship and the national championship

[LarryBoy]

Thank you. I attended my first game at Paladin Stadium in 1993 (saw Philly Jones, a very nice, classy young man, quarterback Furman to a come-from-behind win in the final minutes) and have been well aware of the Paladins ever since. I also am well versed in Furman history, considering that SID-supreme Rick Covington taught me plenty about all of those old days with Dick Sheridan etc. Current Paladin SID Hunter Reid is on the top of my list of SIDs around the country. You are lucky that you have had such excellent people getting information out about your program over the years.

BTW, Bobby Lamb has always been one of the most accessable coaches in FCS. I wish ALL coaches were as easy to deal with as Lamb is.

On systems, I know that Lamb helped open the Furman offense up a bit during the Billy Napier days, as OC and head coach, and I know the I has been the thing since Art Baker. But it might be time to look at some other offensive wrinkles. The Paladins sure get predictable at times. Defensively, I have found Furman to be way too conservative over the years. You see fewer adjustments by the Paladins on defense than almost any team in the SoCon (other than the horrendously coached Georgia Southern team last season, where VanGorder seemed to refuse, or was too stupid, or arrogant to adjust to what opponents were doing). I'd like to see Furman play more aggressively on the defensive side of the ball. Cover 2 and rushing four down-linemen 90% of the time can be beaten by some of the better teams.

It will be interesting to see how Furman looks on the speed aspect this season, considering what you are reporting.

I agree whole-heartedly, and you'll find other Paladin fans who feel the same way.

Our best offensive game last year (against UNC) was aided by the fact that we nearly abandoned the I and went into some monstrous hybrid of the Wofford wishbone and the App spread. We were able to do whatever we freaking wanted with those sets (Passed for over 300 yards, Ran for over 200). I understand that we had to water it down some with Sorrells having to jump in. I just hope we stretch ourselves more like we did during Ingle's days. Renaldo has proven that he's capable of pulling it off.

Defensively...oy. Maybe we lack speed on the corners or something. But we made Richie Williams super-human with that soft zone.

[appfan2008]

that would be a good counter to felton... spreading it out that is... could you imagine that inside, outside attack?

[Mr. C]

Paladin:
I understand your point. Felton is a player to be reckoned with. Too bad he could not play in Boone last time, except for those weird decoy plays. But, if you are following your logic to its conclusion, that Furman beats ASU with Felton, then my reply is that U.Mass. thought EXACTLY the same thing with their FB Buckley. Their first drive of the Nat'l Champ. game was worrisome (it looked like we could not stop him). But, that was all he had, and the rest is history.

Looking forward to the game in Spartanburg vs. ASU. THAT may be the best game of the year before the playoffs.
Just to clarify a couple of things, I think you mean Steve Baylark and not Eldra Buckley in talking about UMass (both great players BTW). One other correction, Baylark was a tailback, not a fullback. Really Furman is only team I can think of off the top of my head that actually uses a true I formation fullback as a real run threat these days. You just don't see that much in modern football anymore.l

[Mr. C]

i think things slump a little bit after this year...

think of all we lose after this year...
all 4 dbs
i believe one starting lb
2 or 3 ol
and an all american rb
there may be a couple more but we may be really hurting in the secondary in 2008
Don't worry too much. The Mountaineers will be missing some experience in 2008, but there are plenty of athletes on board to plug into the holes. The LB will be replaced by more athletic players and the DL will have everyone back. Waiting to play in the secondary will be guys like Cortez Gilbert, Titus Howard and Leonard Love, along with several talented youngsters. ASU is loaded at RB and WR and Edwards will be a junior in 2008 and probably will be a first-team or second-team All-American by then. The biggest loss will be on the OL with guard Kerry Brown and center Scott Suttle graduating. But there are some tremendous youngsters waiting their turn there, too. ASU, along with Montana, is as deep as anyone in FCS.

[CopperCat]

Don't worry too much. The Mountaineers will be missing some experience in 2008, but there are plenty of athletes on board to plug into the holes. The LB will be replaced by more athletic players and the DL will have everyone back. Waiting to play in the secondary will be guys like Cortez Gilbert, Titus Howard and Leonard Love, along with several talented youngsters. ASU is loaded at RB and WR and Edwards will be a junior in 2008 and probably will be a first-team or second-team All-American by then. The biggest loss will be on the OL with guard Kerry Brown and center Scott Suttle graduating. But there are some tremendous youngsters waiting their turn there, too. ASU, along with Montana, is as deep as anyone in FCS.

And by the way you make it look, nobody will beat ASU for as long as the FCS is in existence.xnonono2x
I wish the season would start so that we could hear things about other teams. Its getting pretty old.

[Mr. C]

The Eagle offense was stymied in 2006 against everyone other than CCU, mostly hamstrung by an marginal OC over-ruled frequently by a overbearing HC.

Our defense last year wasn't bad (ask App), and while we have no John Morhing in the middle of the field this year, I don't think there will be much of a dropoff on that side of the ball.

Offensively, we'll be much improved.
Was VanGorder overruling play calls for real on a regular basis? And to think I thought he was a defensive guy.

[GaSouthern]

yes

[Mr. C]

And by the way you make it look, nobody will beat ASU for as long as the FCS is in existence.xnonono2x
I wish the season would start so that we could hear things about other teams. Its getting pretty old.
As Joe Friday would say, just the facts, M'aam. Schools like Appalachian State and Montana may not win the national title every year, but they will be in contention every year.

If you don't want to read SoCon people talking about SoCon stuff, then go back to Big Sky country.

P.S. You had your chance at Appalachian State last year in the playoffs and didn't get it done. Sorry, but teams like ASU and Montana are just better than you right now.

[PaladinFan]

I say we can finish either 3rd or last depending on if we can kick XP's and FG's! :)

So last place it is, then? xlolx

[PaladinFan]

I agree whole-heartedly, and you'll find other Paladin fans who feel the same way.

Our best offensive game last year (against UNC) was aided by the fact that we nearly abandoned the I and went into some monstrous hybrid of the Wofford wishbone and the App spread. We were able to do whatever we freaking wanted with those sets (Passed for over 300 yards, Ran for over 200). I understand that we had to water it down some with Sorrells having to jump in. I just hope we stretch ourselves more like we did during Ingle's days. Renaldo has proven that he's capable of pulling it off.

Defensively...oy. Maybe we lack speed on the corners or something. But we made Richie Williams super-human with that soft zone.


Explain to me why we always seem to implement a different schemes against the 1-A squads that does fantastically well (UNC, Clemson, Pitt, etc) and then we never see it again.

[citdog]

My order


App St
The Citadel
Wofford
Furman
CHATT
GSU
ELON
WCU

[CopperCat]

As Joe Friday would say, just the facts, M'aam. Schools like Appalachian State and Montana may not win the national title every year, but they will be in contention every year.

If you don't want to read SoCon people talking about SoCon stuff, then go back to Big Sky country.

P.S. You had your chance at Appalachian State last year in the playoffs and didn't get it done. Sorry, but teams like ASU and Montana are just better than you right now.

I don't care if they are better. I would like to hear something about the SoCon OTHER than App St. There are plenty of other teams that have things going on.

[Kill'em]

.
The wildcard ( again ) is GSU. We know you will have a better coach but it is still his first year after a disaster.
I think a lot of folks forget this "disaster" lasted only ONE year. We will be back where we belong sooner than people think.

[citdog]

I think a lot of folks forget this "disaster" lasted only ONE year. We will be back where we belong sooner than people think.

your run is over, there is too much parity in the league now. you are now a second tier team..... get used to it!

[Kill'em]

Get used to getting your collective asses stomped. We are NOT second-tier. That is your place and it looks good on you. xlolx

[citdog]

Get used to getting your collective asses stomped. We are NOT second-tier. That is your place and it looks good on you. xlolx

where did you finish last season? truth hurts doesn't it!

[Eyes of Old Main]

you are now a second tier team..... get used to it!

Let me get this straight.

I know The Citadel has improved recently and that trend is universally expected to continue this fall, but it's a bit presumptuous for Bulldog fans so call GSU a "second tier team" when they themselves have spent most of recently recorded history as that very thing (or worse).

I'm not saying The Citadel won't finish above GSU this fall (because they very well might), but I think it is reasonable that they actually finish in the first tier before they start relegating anyone to the second tier.

[citdog]

Let me get this straight.

I know The Citadel has improved recently and that trend is universally expected to continue this fall, but it's a bit presumptuous for Bulldog fans so call GSU a "second tier team" when they themselves have spent most of recently recorded history as that very thing (or worse).

I'm not saying The Citadel won't finish above GSU this fall (because they very well might), but I think it is reasonable that they actually finish in the first tier before they start relegating anyone to the second tier.

We are on the rise, GSU is a has been program, that never will be again.

[Kill'em]

where did you finish last season? truth hurts doesn't it!
That was last season. ONE bad season does not make us losers anymore than one decent season makes you, well, decent. There is your truth.

[citdog]

That was last season. ONE bad season does not make us losers anymore than one decent season makes you, well, decent. There is your truth.

just for the record, WHERE did you finish last season? SECOND TIER!

[Kill'em]

Read my previous post, that was last season. One season does not qualify as a trend.

[citdog]

Read my previous post, that was last season. One season does not qualify as a trend.

when you finish 3-8 or 4-7 looking up at the 'Dogs, i'll say I told you so!

[Kill'em]

Deal. But it won't happen.

[jhbeagle]

So last place it is, then? xlolx

It took alot more tailgating last year! :)

[Eyes of Old Main]

just for the record, WHERE did you finish last season? SECOND TIER!

And how many times has GSU finished in the first tier over the last 10 years vs. how many times has The Citadel finished in the second tier.

I applaud your enthusiasm and pride in your school Citdog, but this is not an argument you are going to win. GSU has more wins, more titles (conference and national) and more everything. We all agree that El Cid will be better and continue to trend upwards, but this is getting ridiculous.

[Kill'em]

Actually, it is getting fun.

[citdog]

And how many times has GSU finished in the first tier over the last 10 years vs. how many times has The Citadel finished in the second tier.

I applaud your enthusiasm and pride in your school Citdog, but this is not an argument you are going to win. GSU has more wins, more titles (conference and national) and more everything. We all agree that El Cid will be better and continue to trend upwards, but this is getting ridiculous.

what happened ten years ago has no bearing on where that has been in south ga is now. the king is dead! long live the king!

[pete4256]

The point was that Northern Iowa is really the ONLY FCS team that has slowed down the spread in two years. UNI and Wofford have held ASU's offense to 14 points. No one else in FCS has held ASU to under 20 points and only one other (JMU) has held them to less than 24. With Armanti Edwards starting at QB, the Mountaineers averaged 38 points per game.


App scored 17 in regulation in Statesboro last year.

[Kill'em]

Glad you acknowlege us as King and yes, we will live long. We ain't dead yet.

[GaSouthern]

what happened ten years ago has no bearing on where that has been in south ga is now. the king is dead! long live the king!

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Thats what they said in 1996, before we went to the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME THREE MORE TIMES!

Dumb Dog xnonono2x

[Mr. C]

App scored 17 in regulation in Statesboro last year.
I am well aware of that, but the final tally was 27 points. App State stopped itself with turnovers as much as anything else in that game (making three or four, including one that was returned for a TD). In the end, the GSU defense got worn down and scored upon, just like every other team in FCS.

[Mr. C]

And how many times has GSU finished in the first tier over the last 10 years vs. how many times has The Citadel finished in the second tier.

I applaud your enthusiasm and pride in your school Citdog, but this is not an argument you are going to win. GSU has more wins, more titles (conference and national) and more everything. We all agree that El Cid will be better and continue to trend upwards, but this is getting ridiculous.
Actually The Citadel folks have reason to crow. This will be the best Bulldog team since at least 1992. The 2003 squad that Ellis Johnson put together to challenge for the SoCon title until a late slide was one that played just good enough to pull out a few wins. The Bulldogs' scrappy defense kept it in games. This year, The Citadel should have a pretty good offense to go with a good defense. I see the Bulldogs finishing either second, third or fourth. No offense to Georgia Southern, but I'll be surprised if the Eagles finish ahead of the Bulldogs in 2007. One thing to remember, too. The SoCon has had a tremendous upgrade in coaches in the past two or three years. Pete Lembo at Elon, Chris Hatcher at Georgia Southern (of course, Bonzo the Chimp would have been an upgrade over VanGorder) and Kevin Higgins at The Citadel will all make the SoCon more competitive. I personally think the days of the Big Three may be changing to where you will have different teams finishing in the top three every year. This year could be The Citadel's year to be in that mix.

[pete4256]

I am well aware of that, but the final tally was 27 points. App State stopped itself with turnovers as much as anything else in that game (making three or four, including one that was returned for a TD). In the end, the GSU defense got worn down and scored upon, just like every other team in FCS.


I think the GSU defense deserves most of the credit for the turnovers, and I would say that it's indisputable that GSU slowed down the App offense in 2006.

Believe me, GSU fans know something about so-called unstoppable offenses. We've seen way more of them than App State fans.

App's got a great one, but I think sometimes you get carried away.

[Mr. C]

I don't care if they are better. I would like to hear something about the SoCon OTHER than App St. There are plenty of other teams that have things going on.
Somone asks me a direct question and I'm not suppose to answer it? There has been plenty of talk about Furman, Wofford, The Citadel etc., if you care to read the WHOLE thread.

[Mr. C]

I think the GSU defense deserves most of the credit for the turnovers, and I would say that it's indisputable that GSU slowed down the App offense in 2006.

Believe me, GSU fans know something about so-called unstoppable offenses. We've seen way more of them than App State fans.

App's got a great one, but I think sometimes you get carried away.
Is it getting carried away when a freshman quarterback comes in and averages 38 points a game in 13 games that included four games in the playoffs, two more against teams that finished in the top 20 and the winningest program in I-AA/FCS history (your very own Georgia Southern)? With a year as a starter under his belt and experience all around him this season, I'd be surprised if Armanti Edwards doesn't lead a squad that averages better than 40 points per game this season.

[pete4256]

Is it getting carried away when a freshman quarterback comes in and averages 38 points a game in 13 games that included four games in the playoffs, two more against teams that finished in the top 20 and the winningest program in I-AA/FCS history (your very own Georgia Southern)? With a year as a starter under his belt and experience all around him this season, I'd be surprised if Armanti Edwards doesn't lead a squad that averages better than 40 points per game this season.

Why do you feel so compelled to crow about a team which is obviously the favorite to win the Socon next year?

It's not as though you need to drum up respect.

[Purple Knight]

Mr C, was it you that predicted that Furman had the talent to win-it-all in 04 or 05? If so, what was the reason for your feelings that they would not do it?

[Mr. C]

Not sure I understand your question completely. I don't remember what year it was, but I did rank Furman No. 1 in my preseason poll for one of those years. As the season progressed in both 2004 and 2005, I thought Furman was one of a handful of teams that could win the national championship. I honestly felt Furman and Georgia Southern were the best teams in 2004, but both suffered upsets. If Furman doesn't fumble the ball at the goal line in the second half, or if the Paladins go for it on fourth and two on that final drive against JMU instead of trying to kick a field goal, I think they win it all in 2004. In 2005, I honestly felt Furman and Appalachian State were the best two teams as the season progressed. The two games between those two teams could have gone either way (though I think ASU would have won comfortably if Richie Williams had not been injured in the semifinals).

[Black and Gold Express]

I see little has changed here. Furman fans (youwouldno in particular) still feel that if you don't proclaim them the best team on the planet, they'll cry and whine with the best of them.

For fans of a team that got their butts destroyed by ASU last year - an ASU team that on paper is as good as last year, and may have their one weak spot filled via transfer, to talk as much as they do is pretty telling of how out of touch they can be.

Furman is a good team, and they should have a winning season. ASU however is a great team. I'd vote to say the 2006 ASU team would have beaten the 2005 ASU team Furman is so proudly proclaiming victory over.

If both teams come into that game healthy, I see little reason why the outcome of the 2007 game would be much different than 2006. Before the 2006 game I was lambasted for positing that Furman was going to get walloped. That came true, and I don't see too many reasons why the repeat performance cannot happen. ASU has taken big steps ahead of the Paladins in recruiting and team speed. The problem is that certain Purple Posters can't come to grips with the realities of a changing situation, at least for the short term.

In terms of relative team speed, we are now to the SoCon what GSU was back in the 1999-2004 years. It won a ton of games for GSU then, and it's winning a ton of games for us now. You can't beat a good fast team with a good plodding team with any regularity, that point has been proven on the field too many times to count.

I used to not dislike Furman that much compared to other SoCon schools, but the last few years their whining has pushed me over the edge. With only a few individual Furman grads as exceptions, I now look more forward to walloping the Paladins than any other SoCon team in 2007.

[Eagle22]

Was VanGorder overruling play calls for real on a regular basis? And to think I thought he was a defensive guy.

As someone else answered, yes.

My vantage point on the sidelines seemed to confirm he frequently delved into the playcalling, and was responsible for a lot of the delays in getting plays in to the game in a timely manner. Things went south after the Chattanooga loss, and coincidently that was around the time Clark really seemed to get out of rythym, save his performance vs. Elon.

Post season discussion with some now graduated players and some others that were close to the BVG debacle seem to support those observations, as well as some of the post-game discussions where BVG specifically said he tinkered with calls for various reasons.

[Eyes of Old Main]

what happened ten years ago has no bearing on where that has been...

You can't have your cake and eat it to, Citdog.

When cornered about The Citadel's inability to beat Wofford over the last 8 seasons you through out overall records. But, when you want feel like the Bulldogs have pushed aside Georgia Southern as a program, you abandon history and try to base the trend on the shortest amount of time possible.

I know you aren't going to back down on this, because I know you too well, but if you are going to flip-flop your statistical angles like John Kerry I will always be here to call you on it.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Didn't know you were a Pi Kapp, Eagle22. I'm from Zeta Chapter at Wofford.

[appfan2008]

appst
furman
wofford

top 3 guaranteed... anyone say no to those as the top three?

if you had to take one out or add one in who would it be???

[Mr. C]

The Citadel could easily replace Furman or Wofford in the top three. And don't underestimate Chattanooga either. The Mocs will also be vastly improved. Elon is probably still a year or two away from challenging seriously.

[appfan2008]

The Citadel could easily replace Furman or Wofford in the top three. And don't underestimate Chattanooga either. The Mocs will also be vastly improved. Elon is probably still a year or two away from challenging seriously.
ok those are all good and well but what about gsu... i figured you would have said gsu was next in line?

[Death Dealer]

I see little has changed here. Furman fans (youwouldno in particular) still feel that if you don't proclaim them the best team on the planet, they'll cry and whine with the best of them.

I used to not dislike Furman that much compared to other SoCon schools, but the last few years their whining has pushed me over the edge. With only a few individual Furman grads as exceptions, I now look more forward to walloping the Paladins than any other SoCon team in 2007.

I haven't been on this board for that long, but I've been around Appy fans for longer than you may have been alive, and I can tell you that all those things can be said of most Appy fans too. It sucks when your team loses, and folks get way too wrapped up in it, but don't be all high and mighty about it. I used to just mildly hate App St. until I got so sick of their crowing and strutting....being a bad winner is just as bad as being a bad loser. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think you will find that with the very rare exception, Furman fans know how to win and lose with grace...look at OL FU...have you ever met a classier, more stand-up guy? NO.

[appfan2008]

I haven't been on this board for that long, but I've been around Appy fans for longer than you may have been alive, and I can tell you that all those things can be said of most Appy fans too. It sucks when your team loses, and folks get way too wrapped up in it, but don't be all high and mighty about it. I used to just mildly hate App St. until I got so sick of their crowing and strutting....being a bad winner is just as bad as being a bad loser. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think you will find that with the very rare exception, Furman fans know how to win and lose with grace...look at OL FU...have you ever met a classier, more stand-up guy? NO.
I dont think we live in glass houses xlolx xlolx xlolx

[CopperCat]

I haven't been on this board for that long, but I've been around Appy fans for longer than you may have been alive, and I can tell you that all those things can be said of most Appy fans too. It sucks when your team loses, and folks get way too wrapped up in it, but don't be all high and mighty about it. I used to just mildly hate App St. until I got so sick of their crowing and strutting....being a bad winner is just as bad as being a bad loser. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think you will find that with the very rare exception, Furman fans know how to win and lose with grace...look at OL FU...have you ever met a classier, more stand-up guy? NO.

Thank you!!!! At least somebody else sees it.

[Mr. C]

ok those are all good and well but what about gsu... i figured you would have said gsu was next in line?
Nope. I think the Eagles have a year of adjustments ahead. Right now, my order of finish would be this:

1. Appalachian State
2. Wofford
3. Furman
4. The Citadel (real close in my mind between 2,3 & 4)
5. Chattanooga
6. Georgia Southern
7. Elon (you could also flip-flop 5, 6 & 7)
8. Western Carolina (the two I have no doubt about is 1 & 8)

[Mr. C]

I haven't been on this board for that long, but I've been around Appy fans for longer than you may have been alive, and I can tell you that all those things can be said of most Appy fans too. It sucks when your team loses, and folks get way too wrapped up in it, but don't be all high and mighty about it. I used to just mildly hate App St. until I got so sick of their crowing and strutting....being a bad winner is just as bad as being a bad loser. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think you will find that with the very rare exception, Furman fans know how to win and lose with grace...look at OL FU...have you ever met a classier, more stand-up guy? NO.
I have as much respect for Furman fans, coaches, players etc. as I do for anyone in FCS. Though they might get snippy with ASU and GSU sometimes in threads on AGS, there are some great, high-class folks around Furman. The main reason for the written wars between ASU and Furman is that these two schools play the most competitive games of any rivalry in FCS. In 15 games I've covered, all but two have been edge of your seat, with some of the craziest finishes you could ever imagine.

[appfan2008]

Nope. I think the Eagles have a year of adjustments ahead. Right now, my order of finish would be this:

1. Appalachian State
2. Wofford
3. Furman
4. The Citadel (real close in my mind between 2,3 & 4)
5. Chattanooga
6. Georgia Southern
7. Elon (you could also flip-flop 5, 6 & 7)
8. Western Carolina (the two I have no doubt about is 1 & 8)
interesting... I would have guessed that chatty would have been lower... but I KNOW you know more about it than i

[Mr. C]

Chattanooga could finish anywhere from third to sixth IMO. They have shored up some weaknesses. QB and secondary play are the keys. UTC will be very strong on the OL and DL from what I've heard.

[PaladinFan]

Thank you!!!! At least somebody else sees it.

We all see it, we just get tired of talking about it.

Here's to our programs one day meeting in Omaha.

[Jiggs]

Didn't know you were a Pi Kapp, Eagle22. I'm from Zeta Chapter at Wofford.


Alpha Eta, Samford here.

[OL FU]

I think a lot of folks forget this "disaster" lasted only ONE year. We will be back where we belong sooner than people think.

I haven't forgot that according to most GSU fans the disaster wasn't going to happen last year, lots of non-GSU posters said it wouldxrolleyesx

[OL FU]

I have as much respect for Furman fans, coaches, players etc. as I do for anyone in FCS. Though they might get snippy with ASU and GSU sometimes in threads on AGS, there are some great, high-class folks around Furman. The main reason for the written wars between ASU and Furman is that these two schools play the most competitive games of any rivalry in FCS. In 15 games I've covered, all but two have been edge of your seat, with some of the craziest finishes you could ever imagine.

Mr C, I do think this is what you would call ........xeyebrowx xeyebrowx .............reciprocal behaviorxsmiley_wix

[FUwolfpacker]

Alpha Eta, Samford here.

Well, to continue the trend...PaladinFan and I are both from Delta - Furman. Same associate member class actually.

Alright, carry on with all the football talk:)

[phillyAPP]

I haven't been on this board for that long, but I've been around Appy fans for longer than you may have been alive, and I can tell you that all those things can be said of most Appy fans too. It sucks when your team loses, and folks get way too wrapped up in it, but don't be all high and mighty about it. I used to just mildly hate App St. until I got so sick of their crowing and strutting....being a bad winner is just as bad as being a bad loser. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think you will find that with the very rare exception, Furman fans know how to win and lose with grace...look at OL FU...have you ever met a classier, more stand-up guy? NO.


I think you have some merit in what you say.
But,being proud of your team is different than 1- Whining (which i dislike from anyone) 2- Living in the far past (some GSU fans) 3-Just blind judgement. Many fans of all the teams in the SoCon can be in this list. Itg is what makes it fun for all of us to chatter about football in April. NOBODIES FANS ARE FREE FROM CRITICISM WHEN IT COMES TO DOING AND SAYING DUMB THINGS.

[Laserlips]

[QUOTE=PaladinFan] The Eagle offense was completely stymied except for a missed tackle on Jayson Foster leading to a big play. [QUOTE]

And,

With a real Head Coach at the helm calling the plays you can bet Jayson Foster might cause another "missed tackle" or two come game time....:D

Run Jayson run! xthumbsupx

J. Pomeroy

[Laserlips]

I haven't forgot that according to most GSU fans the disaster wasn't going to happen last year, lots of non-GSU posters said it wouldxrolleyesx



Last year did not happen.. Last year did not happen.. It was all a bad, real bad dream... Last year did not happen..

Oh yeah..

And you guys come to Paulson this season, right? ;) I forget... What is that win-loss record between our two respective teams in Paulson?

J. Pomeroy

[PaladinFan]

Last year did not happen.. Last year did not happen.. It was all a bad, real bad dream... Last year did not happen..

Oh yeah..

And you guys come to Paulson this season, right? ;) I forget... What is that win-loss record between our two respective teams in Paulson?

J. Pomeroy

I don't know, that one win counted for about five in my book :)

[Eyes of Old Main]

Alright, carry on with all the football talk:)

Very good. Carry on...

[Eyes of Old Main]

And don't underestimate Chattanooga either. The Mocs will also be vastly improved.

I'll file this in the "maybe next year" folder. Chattanooga has been the "this is the year" team so long it's getting hard to buy into anymore. For their sake, I hope they are better, but I'll believe it when I see it.

At some point, they are going to have to turn all that talent into a team; then they might turn the corner.

[OL FU]

Last year did not happen.. Last year did not happen.. It was all a bad, real bad dream... Last year did not happen..

Oh yeah..

And you guys come to Paulson this season, right? ;) I forget... What is that win-loss record between our two respective teams in Paulson?

J. Pomeroy

I will contradict what the other Paladin fans have said about home field advantage by saying, Every year is a new year:p

[BigApp]

App scored 17 in regulation in Statesboro last year.

so did Eastern Georgia. xcoolx

[Laserlips]

Every year is a new year:p


Yep!

And after our year of the BVG, thank goodness! :D

Seriously, I've been following our guys pretty closely since the new Sheriff came to town and I think while GSU won't be overwhelming this upcoming season we CAN be spoilers to some degree.

Coach Chris Hatcher is such a breath of fresh air after the ego-maniac. No doubt it will take more than one season to get HIS plans in effect, and get HIS vision to clicking, but I think most of us are really looking forward to the upcoming season.

At least the "fun is back in football" for our players (according to them), and we GSU fanatics don't mind a "rebuildiing" season or two as long as we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

"Weren't No" (S.GA. for there "was no") light gonna be coming from any tunnel BVG was associated with.

SOCON please forgive us for being so crappy last year. Atlanta Falcons, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for rescuing us from "THE EGO", and a special thanks to Coach Chris Hatcher for coming to our rescue.

The best part is all of these posts are just guessing.. None of us will know how good our respective teams are until we meet on the field..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy


P.S. Gotta extra kicker or two you don't need? xbangx

[BigApp]

And don't underestimate Chattanooga either. The Mocs will also be vastly improved.

Glad to see someone else finally seeing what I've been seeing in Chattanooga since Allison got there! xthumbsupx He's slowly changing the culture over there.

[OL FU]

Yep!

And after our year of the BVG, thank goodness! :D

Seriously, I've been following our guys pretty closely since the new Sheriff came to town and I think while GSU won't be overwhelming this upcoming season we CAN be spoilers to some degree.

Coach Chris Hatcher is such a breath of fresh air after the ego-maniac. No doubt it will take more than one season to get HIS plans in effect, and get HIS vision to clicking, but I think most of us are really looking forward to the upcoming season.

At least the "fun is back in football" for our players (according to them), and we GSU fanatics don't mind a "rebuildiing" season or two as long as we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

"Weren't No" (S.GA. for there "was no") light gonna be coming from any tunnel BVG was associated with.

SOCON please forgive us for being so crappy last year. Atlanta Falcons, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for rescuing us from "THE EGO", and a special thanks to Coach Chris Hatcher for coming to our rescue.

The best part is all of these posts are just guessing.. None of us will know how good our respective teams are until we meet on the field..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy


P.S. Gotta extra kicker or two you don't need? xbangx

I am convinced you will be back and I am glad Hatcher is keeping everyone interested.

Even you guys didn't deserve BVGxnonox






for more than a yearxlolx

[OL FU]

Glad to see someone else finally seeing what I've been seeing in Chattanooga since Allison got there! xthumbsupx He's slowly changing the culture over there.


xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

I suppose that means the number of incarcerated players will go from 5 to 3 this yearxeyebrowx




I know he is a class guy sometimes you just can't resistxrolleyesx

[pete4256]

I haven't forgot that according to most GSU fans the disaster wasn't going to happen last year, lots of non-GSU posters said it wouldxrolleyesx


And the majority of opinions--either way--were dictated by emotion more than anything else.

For every overly-optimistic and deluded GSU fan on this board, there is an anti-GSU poster who wanted the Eagles to fail (check Citdog).

[citdog]

And the majority of opinions--either way--were dictated by emotion more than anything else.

For every overly-optimistic and deluded GSU fan on this board, there is an anti-GSU poster who wanted the Eagles to fail (check Citdog).

i want you to fail only when you play my Cadets. other than that week i wish you well, i think your program has long since passed its prime and will never sniff the promised land again but that's just mho.

[BigApp]

I know he is a class guy sometimes you just can't resistxrolleyesx

sometimes, it is just too easy, isn't it OLFU xsmiley_wix

besides, from 5 to 3 is a 40% reduction!

[Laserlips]

i want you to fail only when you play my Cadets. other than that week i wish you well, i think your program has long since passed its prime and will never sniff the promised land again but that's just mho.


citdog:

You could be right... Guess the only thing worse than seeing a team with 6 National Championships (even in the far distant past) fail is being the fan of a team that couldn't find the "promised land" if you paved a yellow brick road to it. xwhistlex

Or, being "past your prime" is much preferred over never having had a "prime"....?

Just kiddin'... Kinda.

J. Pomeroy

[pete4256]

i want you to fail only when you play my Cadets. other than that week i wish you well, i think your program has long since passed its prime and will never sniff the promised land again but that's just mho.


Since our last NC (2000):

2001: Nat'l Semi-finals
2002: Nat'l Semi-finals
2003: 7-4 (missed playoffs)
2004: 9-2, 6-1 conference, seeded for playoffs, average score: 47-18
2005: 8-3, 6-1 conference, won 7 of last eight games in the regular season, average score: 38-23

So, it's been more than half a decade since we won a Nat'l title, but you forget how recently it was that we were the beasts on the block and destroyed most of the conference with regularity.

I remember hearing lots of doubts about App after their subpar 2004 season. Considering how the 'Neers looked in Statesboro that year, I was pretty surprised at how quickly Moore turned things around. In retrospect no one should have been.

GSU may have been atrocius last year, but graduated only 3 or 4 guys they'll miss, and everywhere but QB and LB I'm pretty sure the athleticism hasn't diminished one bit since 2004-2005. The roster is probably deeper in most places than it has been at this point since 2002 (especially on defense).

Becasue of inexperience at the afore-mentioned positions and this being the first year of Hatcher's scheme, I don't think we'll play like a top-tier team. 6-5 is probably realistic.

You can write it down now that I said on April 23, 2007 that GSU is still way closer to the top of the conference than it is to the bottom.

At most positions, I expect the talent differential between the Eagles and the conference's bottom dwellers to be clear once again in 2007.

[Black Saturday]

App scored 17 in regulation in Statesboro last year.

TURNOVERS, TURNOVERS, THOSE DANGED TURNOVERS.

Part of the game.

Bet we hang more 17 on you in Boone?

[pete4256]

TURNOVERS, TURNOVERS, THOSE DANGED TURNOVERS.

Part of the game.

Bet we hang more 17 on you in Boone?


If history is any indication, you'll beat the snot out of us in Boone. Even the '99 GSU team (arguably our best ever) lost in Boone.

Feels pretty good to take the home field with the kind of confidence you guys have right now, doesn't it?

[PaladinFan]

GSU doesn't lose too many players, but John Morhing might be the biggest shoes to fill of any player in the SoCon. He was the backbone of that defense.

Close second will be Elon's Nkang. I'm anxious to see if Elon actually has any other players that can tackle.

[appfan2008]

yes it does... but we dont have wofford or furman at home so that should be interesting

[pete4256]

yes it does... but we dont have wofford or furman at home so that should be interesting

"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

[Death Dealer]

yes it does... but we dont have wofford or furman at home so that should be interesting I wouldn't worry too much, even if you drop one of those games (which ain't very likely) you still have the best shot at the Conference title....I really hate that!xoopsxxlolx

[Black and Gold Express]

Becasue of inexperience at the afore-mentioned positions and this being the first year of Hatcher's scheme, I don't think we'll play like a top-tier team. 6-5 is probably realistic.

Question, is Hatcher's playstyle in any way similar to VanGorder's? It could be that you may have less of a learning gap than you'd think, which could lead to a quicker turnaround.

The real key to GSU is if Hatcher can get GSU back to being the fastest team in the conference again. You can run just about any offense well if you're outrunning your opponents.

[Black and Gold Express]

If history is any indication, you'll beat the snot out of us in Boone. Even the '99 GSU team (arguably our best ever) lost in Boone.

Feels pretty good to take the home field with the kind of confidence you guys have right now, doesn't it?

We've had a serious home field advantage for decades now. This recent unbeaten run has been an uptick of that, but I think we're between .700 and .800 at home going back a long way.

What's different is this team has shown that it can win consistently on the road. That's been a real change. Last year's win in Statesboro was a big monkey to knock off. If we can leave Greenville a winner, that's pretty much the last remaining SoCon stadium we've had troubles with in the past. And as i said before, barring injuries I think we have the squad to leave there with a double-digit win in 2007.

I hesitate to use this comparison so soon, but another successful campaign and we could start being talked about in similar light to Marshall's dominance before they left I-AA, and GSU's run. And that's the only comparison to Marshall I would ever approve of.

The question becomes, looking foward, can we keep the continuity intact? We've been lucky so far that our coaching cabinet has not been raided. If Coach Moore can hand over the reigns to someone in the system (Satterfield maybe?) or someone with ties to the ASU family, that will bode well. The only reason GSU slipped so badly was they got away from what got them to the top. Maybe Hatcher can start a new legacy there, but you look at most successful programs on this level, they have a lot of continuity in the coaching ranks.

[pete4256]

Question, is Hatcher's playstyle in any way similar to VanGorder's? It could be that you may have less of a learning gap than you'd think, which could lead to a quicker turnaround.

The real key to GSU is if Hatcher can get GSU back to being the fastest team in the conference again. You can run just about any offense well if you're outrunning your opponents.

Hatcher's scheme is somewhat similar to the "spread" portion of last year's bi-polar offense: four wideouts and a throwing quarterback. BVG started the transition a year ago, so GSU is in year two of the "passing era." Hopefully some of the growing pains associated with that (learning and personnel-wise) were left behind in 2006.

Hatcher's philosophy, however, is more akin to the triple option than to last year's NFL-style abortion. He looks to break big plays by getting small, fast guys into the open field. All those slotbacks and athletic O-lineman from the option days are much more suited to Hatcher's attack, and I assure you that Foster and all the other 5'9" burners will be used in this offense, not released from their scholarships because they aren't 6'2".

We're not starting from scratch like last year (only a moron like BVG would've assumed we were doing so while returning nine starters from an offense which averaged 38 points).

QB play will make most of the difference on offense, while developing a competitive LB corps will make the difference on defense. At DB and DL we're deeper and more athletic than we've been in a half-decade.

If both of those things happen, we could be very competitive. If we struggle with those two areas of need from time to time, we'll be on the outside looking in. No matter what, though, we will have at least have a quality win or two next year.

[youwouldno]

The natural inclination of fans whose team goes through a period of dominance is to think that the dominance will last forever. GSU fans usually had such an outlook, often with good reason, and App St fans now have the same attitude. It is, however, far from a sure thing. The line between very good and great is a thin one.

[phillyAPP]

The natural inclination of fans whose team goes through a period of dominance is to think that the dominance will last forever. GSU fans usually had such an outlook, often with good reason, and App St fans now have the same attitude. It is, however, far from a sure thing. The line between very good and great is a thin one.

I think most APP fans understand "the thin line" but at this time the WAVE has yet to crest. It may happen this year or next or after that. Most of us APPs are enjoying the ride and some have overindulged But if you talk football and not smack APPs are pretty grounded Mountaineers.

ENJOY the RIDE APP's- AIMING FOR THREE
xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx

[Death Dealer]

What's different is this team has shown that it can win consistently on the road. That's been a real change. Last year's win in Statesboro was a big monkey to knock off. If we can leave Greenville a winner, that's pretty much the last remaining SoCon stadium we've had troubles with in the past. And as i said before, barring injuries I think we have the squad to leave there with a double-digit win in 2007.

I hesitate to use this comparison so soon, but another successful campaign and we could start being talked about in similar light to Marshall's dominance before they left I-AA, and GSU's run. And that's the only comparison to Marshall I would ever approve of.


Ya'll keep up all this smack outside of the smack board and that ain't the only comparison to Marshall the rest of us will be making!:D xsmiley_wix

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

A lot of glum predictions for GSU. GSU will have much better offensive minds running the program, and with the talent we have I think we will surprise people how well we bounce back. I think with luck we can be 8-3, with the only losses at Wofford, at Appalachian, and at Colorado State. I think we have a decent shot against Citadel, and I don't think I will ever not like our chances versus Furman at home.

[Kill'em]

TURNOVERS, TURNOVERS, THOSE DANGED TURNOVERS.

Part of the game.

Bet we hang more 17 on you in Boone?
Don't overlook us.

[Kill'em]

Question, is Hatcher's playstyle in any way similar to VanGorder's? It could be that you may have less of a learning gap than you'd think, which could lead to a quicker turnaround.

The real key to GSU is if Hatcher can get GSU back to being the fastest team in the conference again. You can run just about any offense well if you're outrunning your opponents.
The answer is NO. BVG's offense was the only one I have ever seen that could run a no-huddle and still take over 20 seconds to get the play in. In the spring game, we never huddled and still had 15 or more seconds to audible. The offense is all about speed and how quickly the backs hit the holes or how quickly the QB can get the ball to his receivers. This is a fast team on both sides of the ball.

[Kill'em]

I am well aware of that, but the final tally was 27 points. App State stopped itself with turnovers as much as anything else in that game (making three or four, including one that was returned for a TD). In the end, the GSU defense got worn down and scored upon, just like every other team in FCS.
Dang, give us some credit! The turnovers we not just App dropping the ball. Most were either directly or indirectly the result of a serious hit from the Georgia Southern defense.

[Eagle22]

The biggest difference between this upcoming season and last year, is that our head coach is not willing to sell the seniors short in order to get to his unique brand of play immediately. He realizes that he has to transition his offense to a degree, until they can have the type of players they ultimately want.

He's been upfront about trying to utilize the available players and adapt his offense to the talent on hand, unlike the square-peg / round-hole approach the former HC took. Last year, a constant litany of what our team lacked, was deficient in, etc ... continuously erupted from the post-game press conferences to the point of redundancy.

It sounds too darn simple, but it all starts with the right mindset and attitude, and those that have been around GSU football in the heights of winning seasons are very familiar with the aura and essence of success.

It's starting to 'feel' that way again ... and IMO, a return to championship football form can't begin until that foundation returns.

[youwouldno]

I didn't see any others, but BVG's comments after the FU-GSU were a disgrace. I wondered later whether that played any role, even if subconscious, in the embarrassing home loss to UCA. GSU will unquestionably be better, but a number of Eagles fans probably expect too much right away. Three coaches in three years... if Hatcher can dominate in that circumstance, he won't be in Statesboro too long.

[chattanoogamocs]

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

I suppose that means the number of incarcerated players will go from 5 to 3 this yearxeyebrowx


I know he is a class guy sometimes you just can't resistxrolleyesx

I don't mind the joking...but it does bring up a sad issue...

When the Mocs players were accused of gang rape, it was similar to the Duke case (players kicked out of school...treated as guilty until proven innocent...etc, etc)...except when all charges were dropped (and for the same reason, the girl out and out lying) it was barely mentioned afterwards.

Those players (all of whom left UTC) still have that stigma attached and most of them never got to play football again.

But, the one thing it did do was make Allison really change his philosophy on character recruitment...I believe that when he coached at major schools like Auburn and Clemson, indiscretions by players are either overlooked or covered up...that doesn't fly in FCS. This last recruiting class was much more concentrated on academics and character.

I can honestly say that I feel this years team are made up of a lot of good, upstanding, individuals. I can also say, I haven't always felt that way in the past.

As for the Mocs finishing last? A little history lesson...while the Mocs have not been very good in the last 2 decades...they have only finished last twice in the 30 years since joining the SoCon. They are usually not at the top and rarely at the very bottom.

Last years team was only a consistent QB (and a couple of bone headed plays) away from being about a 7 win team.

[OL FU]

I don't mind the joking...but it does bring up a sad issue...

When the Mocs players were accused of gang rape, it was similar to the Duke case (players kicked out of school...treated as guilty until proven innocent...etc, etc)...except when all charges were dropped (and for the same reason, the girl out and out lying) it was barely mentioned afterwards.

Those players (all of whom left UTC) still have that stigma attached and most of them never got to play football again.

But, the one thing it did do was make Allison really change his philosophy on character recruitment...I believe that when he coached at major schools like Auburn and Clemson, indiscretions by players are either overlooked or covered up...that doesn't fly in FCS. This last recruiting class was much more concentrated on academics and character.

I can honestly say that I feel this years team are made up of a lot of good, upstanding, individuals. I can also say, I haven't always felt that way in the past.

As for the Mocs finishing last? A little history lesson...while the Mocs have not been very good in the last 2 decades...they have only finished last twice in the 30 years since joining the SoCon. They are usually not at the top and rarely at the very bottom.

Last years team was only a consistent QB (and a couple of bone headed plays) away from being about a 7 win team.

:o I knew the charges had been dropped. xnodx I am so ashamed of myself:o xbawlingx

Sorry:)

[gophoenix]

I don't mind the joking...but it does bring up a sad issue...

When the Mocs players were accused of gang rape, it was similar to the Duke case (players kicked out of school...treated as guilty until proven innocent...etc, etc)...except when all charges were dropped (and for the same reason, the girl out and out lying) it was barely mentioned afterwards.

Those players (all of whom left UTC) still have that stigma attached and most of them never got to play football again.

But, the one thing it did do was make Allison really change his philosophy on character recruitment...I believe that when he coached at major schools like Auburn and Clemson, indiscretions by players are either overlooked or covered up...that doesn't fly in FCS. This last recruiting class was much more concentrated on academics and character.

I can honestly say that I feel this years team are made up of a lot of good, upstanding, individuals. I can also say, I haven't always felt that way in the past.

As for the Mocs finishing last? A little history lesson...while the Mocs have not been very good in the last 2 decades...they have only finished last twice in the 30 years since joining the SoCon. They are usually not at the top and rarely at the very bottom.

Last years team was only a consistent QB (and a couple of bone headed plays) away from being about a 7 win team.

Barely mentioned. Yep. And that is pathetic. I was on a radio show last year talking about this and similarities with Duke, for about 20 minutes. With the make guilty until proven innocent landscape, then best way to win games against a strong opponent is to have someone cry rape against the other teams players. They'll be arrested, suspended and off the team. I am surprised we haven't seen this used yet.

The simple solution. Stay away from women. They cannot be trusted.

[Laserlips]

The simple solution. Stay away from women. They cannot be trusted.



Yep..

That's what my Son says too.. But then he's Gay, so maybe has a different perspective on the subject? xwhistlex

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[STACCATS]

For me, Jerome Felton is the BEST player in FCS and I also think he is the BEST FB in all of college.

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?

[chattanoogamocs]

:o I knew the charges had been dropped. xnodx I am so ashamed of myself:o xbawlingx

Sorry:)

I really didn't mind the joke OL FU...I don't mind a little good natured ribbing

(and quite frankly, they are still guilty in my mind for "gross stupidity" for letting themselves get into that situation).

It was just a good chance to bring that up and get it off my chest...'cause it was kind of frustrating to see the amount of public apologies the Duke kids got...and it made me realize the Chattanooga kids got nothing but the first bus out of town.

I have to admit, I must be getting old because the "morals" of many of today's college students makes me blush (and another little part says "damn...I wish I was in school now!" :) )

[AndrewFU21]

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?

A couple of things. First as you mentioned, Felton was still hurt, and was never really effective after getting injured against Chattanooga. Second, MSU did the best thing you can possibly do to neutralize a big, pounding, grind it out kind of running back- get out to a big lead early.

I don't think I would call him the best player in FCS, in the sense of if, say, I had the first pick in a fantasy draft or something like that. But if you are evaluating players on their success at their particular position, I'd say its hard to image a guy being much more effective in his role than Felton is.

[phillyAPP]

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?

A little SoCon Homering???????
Maybe ?

[GaSouthern]

The simple solution. Stay away from women. They cannot be trusted.

ANYTHING THAT BLEEDS FOR FIVE DAYS AND DOES NOT DIE CANNOT BE TRUSTED ;)

[Appstate29]

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?

I don't know, there are many great players in all of FCS, and in last years championship run, ASU faced a lot of them, and for me, the only player that downright frightened me was Jerome Felton, hes an absolute monster when hes healthy.

[APP91]

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?

Not if you would have seen him play when he wasn't hurt!xnonox

[Kill'em]

I didn't see any others, but BVG's comments after the FU-GSU were a disgrace. I wondered later whether that played any role, even if subconscious, in the embarrassing home loss to UCA. GSU will unquestionably be better, but a number of Eagles fans probably expect too much right away. Three coaches in three years... if Hatcher can dominate in that circumstance, he won't be in Statesboro too long.
Was it anything along the lines of "We had the right plays called but they didn't execute" or was it "We don't have the talent, yet"?

[Kill'em]

Yep..

That's what my Son says too.. But then he's Gay, so maybe has a different perspective on the subject? xwhistlex

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy
xeekx

[PaladinFan]

Not if you would have seen him play when he wasn't hurt!xnonox

Jerome Felton is the deal. He and Jayson Foster are the only two SoCon players that need no real supporting cast. He is a game changer when healthy.

I would wager that Montana State didn't look as good after flying the length of the country to play Appalachian as they typically do at home. Well, neither did Furman.

[Kill'em]

Felton is a beast.

[Mr. C]

I would imagine that Armanti Edwards and Kevin Richardson could be put in that category, too. I wouldn't put Foster in that company as a receiver/returner, though I would put him in those ranks as a QB, running the Eagle spread option.

[Mr. C]

Mr. C, I know Jerome was hurt during the first round of the playoffs last year, but from what he showed in Bozeman, that is quite a stretch to call him the best player in all of FCS.

I think I could name 20 players who are better. A little So-Con homering?
If you had seen the injury that Felton took, it was an absolute wonder he didn't break his ankle. It was pretty gruesome. He was never close to healthy the rest of the season. As someone who has evaluated college football for 30 years, I would go as far as to say he has the potential to be the best college fullback I've seen since Fresno State's Lorenzo Neal, a frequent NFL All-Pro now.

If you had seen him play in the 2005 playoffs or in the nationally televised game against North Carolina, you would know what he was/is capable of. Felton is a beast. There is a reason he has been named a two-time All-American by the College Sporting News and other outlets. You saw him at about 50% of his ability at Montana State.

[Mr. C]

Since our last NC (2000):

2001: Nat'l Semi-finals
2002: Nat'l Semi-finals
2003: 7-4 (missed playoffs)
2004: 9-2, 6-1 conference, seeded for playoffs, average score: 47-18
2005: 8-3, 6-1 conference, won 7 of last eight games in the regular season, average score: 38-23

So, it's been more than half a decade since we won a Nat'l title, but you forget how recently it was that we were the beasts on the block and destroyed most of the conference with regularity.

I remember hearing lots of doubts about App after their subpar 2004 season. Considering how the 'Neers looked in Statesboro that year, I was pretty surprised at how quickly Moore turned things around. In retrospect no one should have been.

GSU may have been atrocius last year, but graduated only 3 or 4 guys they'll miss, and everywhere but QB and LB I'm pretty sure the athleticism hasn't diminished one bit since 2004-2005. The roster is probably deeper in most places than it has been at this point since 2002 (especially on defense).

Becasue of inexperience at the afore-mentioned positions and this being the first year of Hatcher's scheme, I don't think we'll play like a top-tier team. 6-5 is probably realistic.

You can write it down now that I said on April 23, 2007 that GSU is still way closer to the top of the conference than it is to the bottom.

At most positions, I expect the talent differential between the Eagles and the conference's bottom dwellers to be clear once again in 2007.
I'm not the only one who thinks Georgia Southern could have very easily put a seventh flag up for the 2004 season. I've had that discussion with a lot of people and many thought that Georgia Southern and Furman were probably the top two teams heading into the 2004 playoffs. I know Mike Sewak felt like the Eagles left a title on the table. A lot of people thought with a dry field against New Hampshire that GSU wins that game handily. Furman fumbled with no contact a yard away from scoring the game-clinching TD in the quarterfinals against James Madison. Georgia Southern missed a game-winning field goal in 2002 by a foot or two against Western Kentucky on the final play of the game. The way WKU handled McNeese State the next week with the option, there is little doubt in my mind that the Eagles could have a national championship there, too. But for a couple of bad breaks, Sewak could have easily won TWO national championships in his first four years at GSU.

[ASU_Chad]

Yep..

That's what my Son says too.. But then he's Gay, so maybe has a different perspective on the subject? xwhistlex

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy
xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx 9 I think that is so awesome that you can accept your son for who he is and be so candid about it. Being gay myself, I am very thankful to have an accepting father myself. And yes, girls are trouble.

[pete4256]

I would imagine that Armanti Edwards and Kevin Richardson could be put in that category, too. I wouldn't put Foster in that company as a receiver/returner, though I would put him in those ranks as a QB, running the Eagle spread option.


Take away two games from last (Furman, with 20+ carries and Elon with 9 catches) and Foster had about 3 touches a game. Hard to be a difference maker when you can't get the ball. I think you'll see different results this year, and if Foster still is inconsistent catching the ball, I think he'll line up at RB. Then you'll see. Foster's still the most dangerous big-play threat in the conference.

[blueballs]

I'm not the only one who thinks Georgia Southern could have very easily put a seventh flag up for the 2004 season. I've had that discussion with a lot of people and many thought that Georgia Southern and Furman were probably the top two teams heading into the 2004 playoffs. I know Mike Sewak felt like the Eagles left a title on the table. A lot of people thought with a dry field against New Hampshire that GSU wins that game handily. Furman fumbled with no contact a yard away from scoring the game-clinching TD in the quarterfinals against James Madison. Georgia Southern missed a game-winning field goal in 2002 by a foot or two against Western Kentucky on the final play of the game. The way WKU handled McNeese State the next week with the option, there is little doubt in my mind that the Eagles could have a national championship there, too. But for a couple of bad breaks, Sewak could have easily won TWO national championships in his first four years at GSU.

You are exactly right in that analysis. I couldn't agree more.

I felt the same way and a lot of us thought the 2003 team would have been pretty good but was never completely healthy (mostly due to Chaz having two off season surgeries, then pulling a muscle, and not neing in shape in the fall) and sputtered due to that.

Mike thought he would have been a contender last year too and this year could have been truly special and that the 2005 team was his rebuilding year. I agreed with that assessment at the time.

Of course none of us knew just how good ASU was going to wind up being, but if you look at the kids GSU has in the program now who are Jrs & Srs and were recruited by Mike, that would have been running the 3O, it would have been potent and there's no reason not to think they would have been a top 5-10 team both years.

[Mr. C]

With Sewak still around, Georgia Southern would have probably finished second in the SoCon last year, running the T/O. And the fact that the Eagles had more speed than anyone ASU faced other than UMass would have made things interesting in Statesboro. ASU had never won a game in Statesboro with Sewak on the staff, as a head coach or an assistant. The game would have probably have had a lot more scoring.

[BeauFoster]

If you had seen him play in the 2005 playoffs or in the nationally televised game against North Carolina, you would know what he was/is capable of. Felton is a beast. There is a reason he has been named a two-time All-American by the College Sporting News and other outlets. You saw him at about 50% of his ability at Montana State.


Seeing Felton in Boone in the '05 semis was seeing a great player. I don't know what his stats were, or how many carries he had in the game, but I do remember saying to my friends that he was the only player that we didn't have an answer for on the field. Martin wasn't going to beat us that day, but Felton sure tried. I felt a huge wave of relief when I found out that he wouldn't be seeing significant time on the field in the ASU-FU game last year. He could have made that game a whole lot different, too.

[pete4256]

You are exactly right in that analysis. I couldn't agree more.

I felt the same way and a lot of us thought the 2003 team would have been pretty good but was never completely healthy (mostly due to Chaz having two off season surgeries, then pulling a muscle, and not neing in shape in the fall) and sputtered due to that.

Mike thought he would have been a contender last year too and this year could have been truly special and that the 2005 team was his rebuilding year. I agreed with that assessment at the time.

Of course none of us knew just how good ASU was going to wind up being, but if you look at the kids GSU has in the program now who are Jrs & Srs and were recruited by Mike, that would have been running the 3O, it would have been potent and there's no reason not to think they would have been a top 5-10 team both years.

GSU from 2002-2005 was a very potent team on the offensive side of the ball. There are still a good number of guys still on the roster from a young team in 2005 that averaged 38 points a game and wasn't slowed except for in Boone.

IMO, the biggest difference between those Sewak teams (after 2002) and the PJ teams of 1997-2001 boils down to two things: 1) luck and 2) depth on the defensive side of the ball.

Were Sewak still coaching the Eagles in 2006, I think the App State score would've been 43-36 Eagles. I also think the playoffs would've once again revealed some of our personnel deficiencies on defense.

[Black and Gold Express]

I would imagine that Armanti Edwards and Kevin Richardson could be put in that category, too. I wouldn't put Foster in that company as a receiver/returner, though I would put him in those ranks as a QB, running the Eagle spread option.

I would only put Armanti in that list, not Richardson. Richardson is very good, but without the O-line opening holes he doesn't usually rip off 10+ yard runs. He has a great ability to get 2-3 yards on a play that should be stopped for no gain.

Armanti on the other hand can take off when the play breaks down and makes people miss unblocked. Richardson is nowhere near as good doing that.

Your argument regarding Foster makes no sense though. You say he's dangerous and creative when he's getting the ball at the LOS and having to dodge multiple players, but If you get Foster out in the open field, he's not just as dangerous only having to make a couple of people miss? xconfusedx

[pete4256]

I would only put Armanti in that list, not Richardson. Richardson is very good, but without the O-line opening holes he doesn't usually rip off 10+ yard runs. He has a great ability to get 2-3 yards on a play that should be stopped for no gain.

Armanti on the other hand can take off when the play breaks down and makes people miss unblocked. Richardson is nowhere near as good doing that.

Your argument regarding Foster makes no sense though. You say he's dangerous and creative when he's getting the ball at the LOS and having to dodge multiple players, but If you get Foster out in the open field, he's not just as dangerous only having to make a couple of people miss? xconfusedx

Not trying to answer for Mr. C, but my guess is that he's questioning Foster's hands (a fairly legitimate concern) and the inability of our offense to get him the ball regularly in his Freshman and Junior seasons (scheme in 2004, ineptitude and lack of desire in 2006).

[Mr. C]

As someone else pointed out, Foster averaged about three or four touches a game in 2006 for Georgia Southern. That's not someone who is going to beat you single-handedly. And yes, Foster doesn't have the best hands. Ever wonder how someone who is so good fielding and returning kicks could have such trouble catching passes?

[Laserlips]

As someone else pointed out, Foster averaged about three or four touches a game in 2006 for Georgia Southern. That's not someone who is going to beat you single-handedly. And yes, Foster doesn't have the best hands. Ever wonder how someone who is so good fielding and returning kicks could have such trouble catching passes?


PLEASE don't let the dismal GSU football season for 2006 be a measuring stick for any potential improvement this upcoming season..



Coach Hatcher will get the ball into Jayson's hands, if he has to have it express delivered by UPS... And you just know Jayson is gonna flat fly with that sucker! I hate it that Jayson is doing so well in classes, if he'd flunk his senior year maybe we could figure a way to suit him up again next season! Gotta' love watching Jayson with the ball........

Come on Sept! :D

J. Pomeroy

[blueballs]

Ever wonder how someone who is so good fielding and returning kicks could have such trouble catching passes?

He never really had to until last year.

I know he played WR his RSFR year but that was the 3-O and it isn't the same.

Hopefully for the GSU folks some better coaching combined with hard work and a little experience will make him a better pass catcher.

[PaladinFan]

My point was to say that Foster and Felton are the only two guys that have the ability to do it on their own. You can line up 8 or 9 guys infront of Jerome Felton, and he will still get his yards. You can know Jayson Foster is going to run with the football, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can tackle him.

Edwards and Richardson are great, I think, together. They completment each other splendidly. However, they aren't in the same category. ASU is very good at running a lot of misdirections and draws which complement their athletes. What I am advocating is that every fan, player, coach, and defensive player knows who is getting the ball, and they still can't stop them. That's not the case with Edwards and Richardson, that is the case with Felton and Foster.

Edwards and Richardson are successfull because defenses can't key on one of them. When you play Georgia Southern and Furman, you better be sure that defenses know that those offenses possess one player that can hurt you on any play and they go through the ringer trying to contain them.

[pete4256]

When you play Georgia Southern and Furman, you better be sure that defenses know that those offenses possess one player that can hurt you on any play and they go through the ringer trying to contain them.

Holy crap! I never thought I'd see a AGS poster/Furmanite who knew more than an NFL linebackers coach.

[Saint3333]

I'm not trying to get into a discussion of who is better, but I believe AE and KR are very special players and can be mentioned in the same sentence with Felton and Foster.

Edwards passes for 2,000 yards and runs for 1,000 as a TRUE FRESHMAN and you can't mention him along with Felton and Foster... Have you seen his moves? Don't worry you'll get a chance to see him at least 3 more times.

Kevin runs hard and seems to always get an extra 2-3 yards at the end of the play. As for break away speed, ask UMass how he got that 70 yard TD against what IMO was the second fastest team in the FCS last year. THIRTY TDs.

I think Felton is a beast and probably was the best chance to play on Sundays in the SoCon, but Edwards and KR can do it own their own as well. Watch a copy highlight reels and you'll see.

I mean our offensive line and our offensive scheme is good, but with talk like this is sounds like we can line anyone up and have similar results. Come on guys we aren't that goodxsmiley_wix.

[blueballs]

I'm not trying to get into a discussion of who is better, but I believe AE and KR are very special players and can be mentioned in the same sentence with Felton and Foster.

Edwards passes for 2,000 yards and runs for 1,000 as a TRUE FRESHMAN and you can't mention him along with Felton and Foster... Have you seen his moves? Don't worry you'll get a chance to see him at least 3 more times.

Kevin runs hard and seems to always get an extra 2-3 yards at the end of the play. As for break away speed, ask UMass how he got that 70 yard TD against what IMO was the second fastest team in the FCS last year. THIRTY TDs.

I think Felton is a beast and probably was the best chance to play on Sundays in the SoCon, but Edwards and KR can do it own their own as well. Watch a copy highlight reels and you'll see.

I mean our offensive line and our offensive scheme is good, but with talk like this is sounds like we can line anyone up and have similar results. Come on guys we aren't that goodxsmiley_wix.

Edwards earned my respect the first time I saw him play, which was the ASU/GSU game last year. He took two of the nastiest hits I saw all year- the one at the goal line that he spun out of was just a spectacular play by both he and the defender- and kept playing and led his team to victory.

That man is a winner.

Richardson's production speaks for itself.

[PaladinFan]

I'm not trying to get into a discussion of who is better, but I believe AE and KR are very special players and can be mentioned in the same sentence with Felton and Foster.

Edwards passes for 2,000 yards and runs for 1,000 as a TRUE FRESHMAN and you can't mention him along with Felton and Foster... Have you seen his moves? Don't worry you'll get a chance to see him at least 3 more times.

Kevin runs hard and seems to always get an extra 2-3 yards at the end of the play. As for break away speed, ask UMass how he got that 70 yard TD against what IMO was the second fastest team in the FCS last year. THIRTY TDs.

I think Felton is a beast and probably was the best chance to play on Sundays in the SoCon, but Edwards and KR can do it own their own as well. Watch a copy highlight reels and you'll see.

I mean our offensive line and our offensive scheme is good, but with talk like this is sounds like we can line anyone up and have similar results. Come on guys we aren't that goodxsmiley_wix.

Again, I'm not saying they aren't good players. I'm saying they complement each other and it would be tough to have the success you've had without both pulling an equal share.

Because a player makes fantastic plays is not the point I'm trying to make. Look at 2005 Furman v. Hofstra. The game is in overtime, both teams completely exhausted and Furman gives the ball to Jerome Felton 5 straight times and Hofstra couldn't do a thing about it. They knew it was coming, the fans knew it was coming, they couldn't stop it. Western Carolina this past season. Felton had 6 touchdowns before the third quarter had finished.

Look at Foster's performance against Furman this past year. Foster had more yards total yards as a "whatever you call him" back than Travis Clark and Lamar Lewis had combined. He accounted for 2/3 of their offense in that game by himself.

I think Edwards has the potential to be. His game at GSU showed me a lot. I still think you have to evaluate him over the next couple years. Richardson is a fantastic back, but he's never been in the game changer role though. In all of ASU's big, gritty, nose to the grindstone games, it is typically someone else who "takes the ball."

[citdog]

you folks can talk about your Feltons and Fosters, but your SoCon Player of the Year will be Cadet Duran Lawson, QB, The Citadel.

[PaladinFan]

you folks can talk about your Feltons and Fosters, but your SoCon Player of the Year will be Cadet Duran Lawson, QB, The Citadel.

If Coach Hatcher has half a brain the offensive player of the year will be Jayson Foster, and I don't think it will be close.

[Saint3333]

Again, I'm not saying they aren't good players. I'm saying they complement each other and it would be tough to have the success you've had without both pulling an equal share.

Because a player makes fantastic plays is not the point I'm trying to make. Look at 2005 Furman v. Hofstra. The game is in overtime, both teams completely exhausted and Furman gives the ball to Jerome Felton 5 straight times and Hofstra couldn't do a thing about it. They knew it was coming, the fans knew it was coming, they couldn't stop it. Western Carolina this past season. Felton had 6 touchdowns before the third quarter had finished.

Look at Foster's performance against Furman this past year. Foster had more yards total yards as a "whatever you call him" back than Travis Clark and Lamar Lewis had combined. He accounted for 2/3 of their offense in that game by himself.

I think Edwards has the potential to be. His game at GSU showed me a lot. I still think you have to evaluate him over the next couple years. Richardson is a fantastic back, but he's never been in the game changer role though. In all of ASU's big, gritty, nose to the grindstone games, it is typically someone else who "takes the ball."

Edwards is already there. BTW he's put on about 15-20 pounds this offseason and hasn't lost a step. :D

Kevin didn't take the ball xconfusedx. Kevin took the ball in every ASU playoff win with well over 100 yards each game and 10 TDs in four games, including 4 in the title game with a hurt shoulder. I'd say he took the ball.

He out performed both Mason and Baylark in the playoffs last year, two of the top 5 backs in the nation. It's time this kid gets some respect.

[citdog]

Edwards is already there. BTW he's put on about 15-20 pounds this offseason and hasn't lost a step. :D

Kevin didn't take the ball xconfusedx. Kevin took the ball in every ASU playoff win with well over 100 yards each game and 10 TDs in four games, including 4 in the title game with a hurt shoulder. I'd say he took the ball.

He out performed both Mason and Baylark in the playoffs last year, two of the top 5 backs in the nation. It's time this kid gets some respect.


did you hear kevin r was a walk-on?xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Mr. C]

There were times when Richardson was not in the lineup for ASU and Edwards thrived no matter who the RB was. As good as Richardson is, Edwards was the catalyst of the Mountaineer offense. ASU has a bunch of good RBs behind Richardson. They, or no one else in college football has another guy like Edwards.


Again, I'm not saying they aren't good players. I'm saying they complement each other and it would be tough to have the success you've had without both pulling an equal share.

Because a player makes fantastic plays is not the point I'm trying to make. Look at 2005 Furman v. Hofstra. The game is in overtime, both teams completely exhausted and Furman gives the ball to Jerome Felton 5 straight times and Hofstra couldn't do a thing about it. They knew it was coming, the fans knew it was coming, they couldn't stop it. Western Carolina this past season. Felton had 6 touchdowns before the third quarter had finished.

Look at Foster's performance against Furman this past year. Foster had more yards total yards as a "whatever you call him" back than Travis Clark and Lamar Lewis had combined. He accounted for 2/3 of their offense in that game by himself.

I think Edwards has the potential to be. His game at GSU showed me a lot. I still think you have to evaluate him over the next couple years. Richardson is a fantastic back, but he's never been in the game changer role though. In all of ASU's big, gritty, nose to the grindstone games, it is typically someone else who "takes the ball."

[Mr. C]

you folks can talk about your Feltons and Fosters, but your SoCon Player of the Year will be Cadet Duran Lawson, QB, The Citadel.
Lawson is certainly capable of such a season, but he is going to have to lift his team to the top of the SoCon standings (first or second) to put himself in the mix for such an honor. Right now, I'd vote for him as the second-team all-conference QB behind Edwards, with Renaldo Gray as the third best QB in the league (and please don't start any Elon-Wes Pope talk here).

[Mr. C]

you folks can talk about your Feltons and Fosters, but your SoCon Player of the Year will be Cadet Duran Lawson, QB, The Citadel.
Lawson is certainly capable of such a season, but he is going to have to lift his team to the top of the SoCon standings (first or second) to put himself in the mix for such an honor. Right now, I'd vote for him as the second-team all-conference QB behind Edwards, with Renaldo Gray as the third best QB in the league (and please don't start any Elon/Wes Pope talk here).

[bobbythekidd]

did you hear kevin r was a walk-on?xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx
xdeadhorsex

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

[PaladinFan]

Lawson is certainly capable of such a season, but he is going to have to lift his team to the top of the SoCon standings (first or second) to put himself in the mix for such an honor. Right now, I'd vote for him as the second-team all-conference QB behind Edwards, with Renaldo Gray as the third best QB in the league (and please don't start any Elon/Wes Pope talk here).

Do you not think Wes Pope is worthy of being considered one of the top quarterbacks? Right now we all know Renaldo Gray has incredible potential, but he's been hurt each of the past two seasons.

[SwampEagle]

you folks can talk about your Feltons and Fosters, but your SoCon Player of the Year will be Cadet Duran Lawson, QB, The Citadel.
He'll do well.

But it matters not. The butt sniffing pups will be bitchslapped by GSU. And all you'll be able to say is "Thank you, Sir. May I have another?" Oh, and the SoCon player of the year will be Foster.


xasswhipx

[fuEMO]

If a healthy 225 lb Renaldo Gray plays a the entire regular season, he will battle his cousin for first team All SoCon.

[citdog]

He'll do well.

But it matters not. The butt sniffing pups will be bitchslapped by GSU.


xasswhipx


WERE WE DISCUSSING THE GEORGIA BULLDOGS TEAM?

[james_lawfirm]

If a healthy 225 lb Renaldo Gray plays a the entire regular season, he will battle his cousin for first team All SoCon.


Maybe. We'll see you in Spartanburg.

[Kill'em]

I'm not the only one who thinks Georgia Southern could have very easily put a seventh flag up for the 2004 season. I've had that discussion with a lot of people and many thought that Georgia Southern and Furman were probably the top two teams heading into the 2004 playoffs. I know Mike Sewak felt like the Eagles left a title on the table. A lot of people thought with a dry field against New Hampshire that GSU wins that game handily. Furman fumbled with no contact a yard away from scoring the game-clinching TD in the quarterfinals against James Madison. Georgia Southern missed a game-winning field goal in 2002 by a foot or two against Western Kentucky on the final play of the game. The way WKU handled McNeese State the next week with the option, there is little doubt in my mind that the Eagles could have a national championship there, too. But for a couple of bad breaks, Sewak could have easily won TWO national championships in his first four years at GSU.
This is pretty close. Yes, in '04 the field conditions hurt but I think we hurt ourselves by playing it too safe due to the rain and also because Chaz had his worst passing game of the season. Against WKU, had Deon Stokes turned and looked for the ball, their receiver would NOT have made that miracle catch on 4th-and-forever. Had we not gone so conservative in the second half against TXST and remembered how to play defense, TXST would have gotten crushed. Long story short, we had opportunities but we failed to finish, hance, Coach Sewak is gone.

For the record, I am still a big Sewak fan, good man who loved Georgia Southern.

[Mr. C]

Do you not think Wes Pope is worthy of being considered one of the top quarterbacks? Right now we all know Renaldo Gray has incredible potential, but he's been hurt each of the past two seasons.
Wes Pope would probably be the third string QB at Furman and Appalachian State (I've heard he actually wanted to come to ASU, but wasn't offered a scholarship). He would be a back-up at The Citadel. He wouldn't play in Wofford's offense as a QB, but would be moved to another position. At Georgia Southern, he would be in a battle for a starting job. He would be in a similar place at UTC, though he would probably win the starting job over Antonio Miller. The one other place he would start in the SoCon would probably be at Western Carolina. Pope fits Elon's system and thrived last year, but he really doesn't have the athleticism to beat out starters at most of the other SoCon schools.

[PaladinFan]

Maybe. We'll see you in Spartanburg.

You can show up in Spartanburg, but you won't be watching Furman.

[proasu89]

You can show up in Spartanburg, but you won't be watching Furman.
James got confused and took I-26 all the way. He forgot to get off at Hwy 25 south.xlolx Could have had the Beacon on his mind:D

[Mr. C]

You can show up in Spartanburg, but you won't be watching Furman.
Didn't you here? Wofford bought out the Furman-Appalachian State game to play as part of a doubleheader at Gibbs Stadium. :D xrotatehx xlolx xnodx xeekx
The Terriers thought they might manage a sellout that day.

[Mr. C]

Do you not think Wes Pope is worthy of being considered one of the top quarterbacks? Right now we all know Renaldo Gray has incredible potential, but he's been hurt each of the past two seasons.
Anyone notice the lack of Elon fans around here lately? Where are those Mythlogical Birds hiding?

[PaladinFan]

Didn't you here? Wofford bought out the Furman-Appalachian State game to play as part of a doubleheader at Gibbs Stadium. :D xrotatehx xlolx xnodx xeekx
The Terriers thought they might manage a sellout that day.

We call homeside.

[youwouldno]

Durability is a big key at the QB position. Edwards is very tough and added bulk will do him good. Plus no one ever hits him dead on. Gray just seems injury prone and that's probably the Paladins #1 concern going into 2007. Plus he needs to be more consistent. He has the best arm strength of starting SoCon QB's, and his accuracy is above average, but at times the decision-making isn't there. He isn't very tall and Furman has a large OL.

I think the worst thing would be a repeat of last year when a semi-injured Gray would start a game, struggle, aggravate his injury, and be replaced in the 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Sorrells is very, very good, because he has elite accuracy and decision-making, which are more important in a QB than arm strength. But the offense can't deal with rotating QB's like that.

[Mr. C]

Durability is a big key at the QB position. Edwards is very tough and added bulk will do him good. Plus no one ever hits him dead on. Gray just seems injury prone and that's probably the Paladins #1 concern going into 2007. Plus he needs to be more consistent. He has the best arm strength of starting SoCon QB's, and his accuracy is above average, but at times the decision-making isn't there. He isn't very tall and Furman has a large OL.

I think the worst thing would be a repeat of last year when a semi-injured Gray would start a game, struggle, aggravate his injury, and be replaced in the 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Sorrells is very, very good, because he has elite accuracy and decision-making, which are more important in a QB than arm strength. But the offense can't deal with rotating QB's like that.
Well, be glad that you have two solid players at the position that you can rely on. I think it is a point of strength for Furman that Jordan Sorrells got as much playing time as he did last season. He won't miss a beat coming off the bench this year. It reminds me of the old Buffalo Bills back in the AFL days. They had a quality QB in Jack Kemp, who occasionally got banged up. But when he did, Daryl Lamonica was waiting in the wings.

Furman is one of two teams in the SoCon that really doesn't have concerns at QB, IMO. App State has two QBs that are as good as most anybody in the league. If Armanti Edwards has a problem, Trey Elder is as experienced as almost any backup in FCS. How many teams have a guy on the headset who has been forced to pull out a game off the bench in the semifinals of the NCAAs and has started a national championship game? If anything happens to Gray, Sorrells is very capable, too. All Sorrells needs is more playing time.

[SoCon48]

Durability is a big key at the QB position. Edwards is very tough and added bulk will do him good. Plus no one ever hits him dead on. Gray just seems injury prone and that's probably the Paladins #1 concern going into 2007. Plus he needs to be more consistent. He has the best arm strength of starting SoCon QB's, and his accuracy is above average, but at times the decision-making isn't there. He isn't very tall and Furman has a large OL.

I think the worst thing would be a repeat of last year when a semi-injured Gray would start a game, struggle, aggravate his injury, and be replaced in the 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Sorrells is very, very good, because he has elite accuracy and decision-making, which are more important in a QB than arm strength. But the offense can't deal with rotating QB's like that.

Actually Armanti took a head on shot in the National Championship game at the goal line. Actually bounced on off into the endzone. When I saw the hit, I thought, he's through for the night.

[SoCon48]

Well, be glad that you have two solid players at the position that you can rely on. I think it is a point of strength for Furman that Jordan Sorrells got as much playing time as he did last season. He won't miss a beat coming off the bench this year. It reminds me of the old Buffalo Bills back in the AFL days. They had a quality QB in Jack Kemp, who occasionally got banged up. But when he did, Daryl Lamonica was waiting in the wings.

Furman is one of two teams in the SoCon that really doesn't have concerns at QB, IMO. App State has two QBs that are as good as most anybody in the league. If Armanti Edwards has a problem, Trey Elder is as experienced as almost any backup in FCS. How many teams have a guy on the headset who has been forced to pull out a game off the bench in the semifinals of the NCAAs and has started a national championship game? If anything happens to Gray, Sorrells is very capable, too. All Sorrells needs is more playing time.

Trey is experineced, talented, cool, and composed. Problem is that it only takes most quick solid talented teams a few minutes to figure out how to get to him. He's not slow by most standards, but doesn't have that genuine elusive edge that Edwards has. When Trey doesn't get caught, he still has a bunch of hurries.

[GGASU]

Edwards is already there. BTW he's put on about 15-20 pounds this offseason and hasn't lost a step. :D

Kevin didn't take the ball xconfusedx. Kevin took the ball in every ASU playoff win with well over 100 yards each game and 10 TDs in four games, including 4 in the title game with a hurt shoulder. I'd say he took the ball.

He out performed both Mason and Baylark in the playoffs last year, two of the top 5 backs in the nation. It's time this kid gets some respect.


That is great news about Edwards putting on some weight. If he could get up to 195-200 range and not lose any mobility he would have a great shot at the NFL.

[gophoenix]

Anyone notice the lack of Elon fans around here lately? Where are those Mythlogical Birds hiding?

Most are sort of lurking and following the thread silently, like me. To be honest, I don't feel like getting in the middle of a big Citadel/GSU/App argument.

If people want to continue to pick Elon last. There's nothing I can say that is going to change minds... The SoCon is only getting better from top to bottom. What stinks about that is, we have great coaches and teams that have been stinking like Elon, The Citadel and UTC are going to be nothing but better over the next few seasons. But still, some teams are going to win and some are going to lose. Elon could be 400% better and still come in last place because unlike the SoCon of the 1990s, the present day SoCon is getting better as a group, not one team at a time. And the flip side of that is, with teams like UTC, Elon and The Citadel getting better, they should start knocking off the traditional top teams more, which is going to be an absolute disaster for smack..... so, its better to lurk.


Wes Pope would probably be the third string QB at Furman and Appalachian State (I've heard he actually wanted to come to ASU, but wasn't offered a scholarship). He would be a back-up at The Citadel. He wouldn't play in Wofford's offense as a QB, but would be moved to another position. At Georgia Southern, he would be in a battle for a starting job. He would be in a similar place at UTC, though he would probably win the starting job over Antonio Miller. The one other place he would start in the SoCon would probably be at Western Carolina. Pope fits Elon's system and thrived last year, but he really doesn't have the athleticism to beat out starters at most of the other SoCon schools.

Pope isn't the best QB in the league. And you'll never get that he is from me. But from a team and scheme perspective, he is thriving at Elon. It's like Tom Brady in the NFL. He's great at getting the job done for the patriots but sucks for a fantasy team. So, when it comes down to it. Are the all-conference teams about picking the best position, or the best performers overall. And comparing Wofford's QB vs Edwards vs Pope are not even really apples to apples comparisons as the schemes run by each team caters to the talents by the team as well as the QB. Wofford has a glorified RB, App has a very talented scramble QB and Pope is a pocket passer. All have strengths and weaknesses of their own. So sure, Pope wouldn't start for lots of other schools in the conference. But at the same time, Wofford's QB wouldn't start for Elon either; and that's not to say Wofford's QB isn't good. The QB is as much performance role as it is a leadership role too. Besides, word out of Elon is that Pope, Kirby and Riddle are all in the running for the starting QB job.

Elon's weakness next year will be the same it was this year: offensive and defensive line.

As for the Furman fan's comments on whether others can tackle. How about just pulling up the tackle list from the SoCon football stats. Nkang had a good amount of tackles, but so did a number of other players like Bland, Weaver and Sullivan. Nkang is a huge loss, not from the numbers side as much as it is from the leadership side.

If we can get our lines straightened out early, we should be more than fine for this coming season. Faults in the freshman dominated line are what caused the bulk of our turnovers last season.

Mr. C says we're still a year or so off. I think it is fair to say we are. But I think we also have the ability to be better than expected too. It all depends on how the freshman and sophomores adjust to starting roles quickly and how the team reacts to the probably outcome at South Florida.

[tralfangar]

pretty fair assessment ^

[seantaylor]

Tom Brady sucks for a fantasy team? He led the NFL in passing yards two years ago.