Monmouth Improving Schedule

[maacfb]

They play Lafayette and Delaware in 2008, not too shabby for a mid major's ooc

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050802/SPORTS02/508020413/1010/SPORTS

[Go...gate]

As an NJ guy, I think it's great - hope they play some OOC's at West Long Branch. Monmouth is really a sleeper in 1-AA athletics; they have a growing BB program and FB is coming into its own. Pretty campus, too! :)

[maacfb]

Agreed, everyone talks about Albany and Stony Brook making the move to scholarship football but I can see Monmouth making the same type of move. the program has really had tremendous growth with the addition of grant in aids.

[bluehenbillk]

I was hoping nobody picked up on this. Speaking for many Delaware fans, I'll be the first to say I'm embarassed and physically ill that we've reached a new low in scheduling. We play Maryland & Furman also in '08, but we have West Chester too.

Before anyone replies and says I'm just joking, I'm not. And, I'm not alone in Hen fans that have been talking all morning & aren't too happy that we're scheduling some pretty non-competitive teams. Put West Chester & Monmouth on the same field & I'll take the Golden Rams & give MU 20.

[Go...gate]

Delaware can't play Navy, Maryland, Furman, or the A-10 every week; why not an OOC against Holy Cross, West Chester (a traditional opponent) or Monmouth (a close-by regional opponent)?

[maacfb]

your concerns are certainly understandable but I think the NEC is improving its competitiveness. I think you guys will kill them but with Maryland on the schedule along with the weekly battle in the A-10, it really doesnt hurt too much.

[ChickenMan]

Four years is a long way off and many changes can occur in a football program by 2008. I'm not going to bash Monmouth being on the '08 UD schedule... but I do hope that they will continue to improve their program over the next four years.

[dbackjon]

I was hoping nobody picked up on this. Speaking for many Delaware fans, I'll be the first to say I'm embarassed and physically ill that we've reached a new low in scheduling. We play Maryland & Furman also in '08, but we have West Chester too.

Before anyone replies and says I'm just joking, I'm not. And, I'm not alone in Hen fans that have been talking all morning & aren't too happy that we're scheduling some pretty non-competitive teams. Put West Chester & Monmouth on the same field & I'll take the Golden Rams & give MU 20.

So what is a mid-major to do? They want to prove/improve themselves by playing the best, but you show disdain to them. No win situation for Monmouth. Props to them for stepping up the schedule.

[RadMann]

It is not a dig against Monmouth for scheduling UD the dig is against UD for scheduling Monmouth. Again, nothing against Monmouth but they are one of those division III programs in I-AA clothing. That's what everyone here says about that level of play so we might as well be consistent.

[maacfb]

since the NEC now has 30 grant in aids Id put them above a d-3 team particularly from the middle of the conference up. admittedly they still have a ways to go before they are a legitimate conference but they are on their way imo.

[henfan]

MAACFB, do you know how many equivalancies Monmouth offers for FB as of now? Is it 30 or are they working towards 30?

To put things into perspective, Delaware's annual D-II opponent, West Chester (PA), offers about 24/25 equivalancies, which is well below the D-II maximum 36.

[MU Alum]

I was hoping nobody picked up on this. Speaking for many Delaware fans, I'll be the first to say I'm embarassed and physically ill that we've reached a new low in scheduling. We play Maryland & Furman also in '08, but we have West Chester too.

Before anyone replies and says I'm just joking, I'm not. And, I'm not alone in Hen fans that have been talking all morning & aren't too happy that we're scheduling some pretty non-competitive teams. Put West Chester & Monmouth on the same field & I'll take the Golden Rams & give MU 20.
Hey thanks. Its just motivation for players and our program. I just dont understand the mind-set. Are you embarassed that your conference accepted Towson, a team that loses to mid-majors and they almost beat you this last season? How about Holy Cross, they lost to some Mid-majors the 2 last years and have a good chance of losing to one this year. Aren't you guys scheduled to play Albany in 06? I doubt you guys even respected Lafayette before they came into your own stadium and almost beat you in the playoffs. I know how good Delaware is and respect them but, I dont understand the negative attitude. Monmouth is committed to continually improving its team and in 4 more years who knows what the landscape of I-AA football will be. West Chester is a good PSAC school and MU plays Cal-Pennsylvania this year so we can see where we stand. I am excited about the OOC schedules in the future seasons and if the game in 08 at Delaware happens I'll be at the Tub.

[bluehenbillk]

Nobody in Newark is thrilled about Alabny's impending visit either. Just another reason to tailgate I guess, those type of games you can drink beforehand more heavily for the fear factor of missing something isn't that great.

[MU Alum]

Four years is a long way off and many changes can occur in a football program by 2008. I'm not going to bash Monmouth being on the '08 UD schedule... but I do hope that they will continue to improve their program over the next four years.
Thank you for the statement, no one wants to see a blowout, Not Delaware, Not Monmouth. So i expect the signing of this game shows the direction of the program.

[maacfb]

Henfan,

Im almost positive they are at or very close to 30. Either way by 2008 they would be there. That is the max currently allowed which is the big difference bw them and Westchester bc Westchester can give out a lot more if they wanted. I wouldnt be surprised to see the NEC move the number of counters up towards the 40-45 range in the near future. Monmouth is in a decent situation as well bc they usually get a couple of decent transfer guys which helps them out. I dont believe for a second the game will be close just that you should certainly give them more respect than you do.

[89Hen]

no one wants to see a blowout
Speak for yourself. :p ;)

[henfan]

I dont believe for a second the game will be close just that you should certainly give them more respect than you do.

Thanks for the response, MAACFB. I appreciate the info but please don't misunderstand me. I've got absolutely no issue with Monmouth whatsoever. In fact, I'd prefer MU to any any D-II team, as games against lower divisions teams are not counted towards satisfying I-AA playoff criteria.

That said, UD has had ample opportunity over the last 30+ years to schedule our state's only other I-AA team, Delaware State, but has refused to do so. The UD AD stated last year that he was sure a game with DSU would eventually be played but that there was no room on the Hens' future schedules. The late scheduling additions only further illustrate the UD's complete dishonesty in this regard. :(

[bluehenbillk]

henfan-

FYI, Billy Zwaan has said that by the 2006 season WCU will be at the full allotment of schollys. WCU used to always be there until the early 90's when they "de-emphasized" which resulted in Danny Hale leaving for Bloomsburg.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's funny for me to hear that Delaware fans defend their 7-game home schedule, and then complain that they don't get quality teams. Hey, you want good games at home? How about scheduling some home-and-homes, and actually following through on the commitments? I think Lehigh, GSU, and other great schools would be happy to schedule games if you actually schedule a trip to their home every once in a while.

You want 7 home games? Then you'll have to schedule teams to come to Newark with no return trip. As a result, you'll get smaller programs with something to prove, like Albany or Monmouth, or regional schools like D-II West Chester for a sort of scrimmage.

It's not rocket science. All Delaware fans should write the AD and the head coach and say, grow some cohones and schedule some home-and-homes. Fat chance of that ever happening.

[89Hen]

You want 7 home games? Then you'll have to schedule teams to come to Newark with no return trip. As a result, you'll get smaller programs with something to prove, like Albany or Monmouth, or regional schools like D-II West Chester for a sort of scrimmage.

Sept. 10 - Lehigh 7 p.m.

Seems like there's one "great" school that will come to Newark with no return trip. :p

[GannonFan]

It's funny for me to hear that Delaware fans defend their 7-game home schedule, and then complain that they don't get quality teams. Hey, you want good games at home? How about scheduling some home-and-homes, and actually following through on the commitments? I think Lehigh, GSU, and other great schools would be happy to schedule games if you actually schedule a trip to their home every once in a while.

You want 7 home games? Then you'll have to schedule teams to come to Newark with no return trip. As a result, you'll get smaller programs with something to prove, like Albany or Monmouth, or regional schools like D-II West Chester for a sort of scrimmage.

It's not rocket science. All Delaware fans should write the AD and the head coach and say, grow some cohones and schedule some home-and-homes. Fat chance of that ever happening.

I don't believe UD has ever backed out of a home and home deal, especially after the UD home game was played. Do you know something the rest of us don't or are you just blowing smoke that smells a lot like smack? UD and Lehigh have had a fine relationship, even after Lehigh dropped UD in the 80's for fear of no longer being competive with UD. When you guys felt like you were back to competitive football we started to play you again, with some games at Goodman Stadium as well. I don't understand all the hate coming from your way - you can't still be mad about the beating in the 2000 playoffs, can you? Youngstown backed out of an agreement with UD in the late 90's, and that led to UD having a home and home with Georgia Southern. UD's had home and homes with Youngstown, Georgia Southern, The Citadel, and now Furman - we got plenty of cojones, thank you very much. If you guys got sellout crowds of 22k for every game I'm sure you'd like to play at home too - some can do that, others apparently hate. Feel the love, man.

[bluehenbillk]

I agree, UD has never backed out of a deal. Some LU posters are upset because when this year's opener was scheduled, a few years ago, UD told them they wouldn't be returning the visit up-front.

[henfan]

Billy Zwaan has said that by the 2006 season WCU will be at the full allotment of schollys.

Do you have a link to that? I'm curious because I seriously doubt Zwann meant the full D-II allotment (36.) PSAC has its own limits of 25 equivalancies for football (70 across all sports.) In fact, the PSAC lead the way in a failed attempt to get across-the-board equivalancy reductions for D-II just last year.

All PSAC schools offer less than the 25 equivalancy limit. Cal & IUP offer the most and WCUPA isn't far behind. Zwann might have meant that WCUPA would work to getting up to 25, still well below D-II maximums and where Monmouth apparently is.

[mainejeff]

Some Delaware fans sound like snobs.

I'd like to see Monmouth be considered for future membership to America East and eventually align with Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, Albany and Stony Brook to form a new I-AA conference.

[aceinthehole]

since the NEC now has 30 grant in aids Id put them above a d-3 team particularly from the middle of the conference up. admittedly they still have a ways to go before they are a legitimate conference but they are on their way imo.

Exactly. The NEC as a whole has been improving scheduling for years, just take a look:

Albany
2005: @ Fordham, vs. Hofstra, @ UMass, @ Maine
2004: @ Hofstra, vs. Fordham, @ Brown, @ Lehigh
2003: @ Northeastern, vs. Brown, @ Towson
2002: @ Montana, @ FIU

Central Connecticut State
2005: @ Colgate, vs. Rhode Island
2004: @ Rhode Island
2003: @ New Hampshire, @ UMass
2002: @ Maine, @ UMass

Monmouth
2005: @ Lehigh
2004: vs. Georgetown
2003: @ Georgetown
2002: @ Lafayette, @ Morgan State, vs. Towson

Sacred Heart
2005: @ Holy Cross

Stony Brook
2005: vs. Bucknell, @ Hofstra, vs. Georgetown
2004: @ Lehigh, vs. Hofstra
2003: @ Georgetown
2002: none

The NEC has scheduled up for a few years now, but now they must upset a few teams to gain any respect. Too many I-AA fans are unaware of the progress the NEC has made and its not fair to lump them with some MAAC schools like Iona and LaSalle (sorry MAACfb).

Take a look at the investments being made at all schools - new turf and upgrades at CCSU, SFPA, and Monmouth; new stadium at SBU and RMU. Visit www.northeastconference.org or school webpages before passing judgement. Realistic fans know there is a long way to go but many of the schools are making great strides.

[GannonFan]

I'd agree that the NEC has started to schedule up, which is a good thing and a necessary thing to be taken seriously in IAA, but it's still a fairly recent phenomenon and not as widespread in the conference as you would hope. The teams you list are only about half the conference. There are still teams in the NEC that have actual DIII teams on the schedule (Rowan is on Robert Morris's schedule), most of the NEC (I think all actually) play at least one game against the MAAC conference that you disparage, with even the bigger schools you mention (Cent Conn St and Sacred Heart) playing multiple games against the MAAC. Heck, Wagner plays 4 of the 5 MAAC teams and probably would've schedule the whole conference if they had enough OOC games to do so. If the NEC doesn't want to get lumped in with the MAAC mayeb they should stop playing them so often? And some of the Georgetown games you list as scheduling up are a bit suspect - the first Georgetown teams in the Patriot weren't vastly different than non-scholly football as they were still transitioning from where the NEC teams are now - going forward they're decent games, but not so much in the past.

I have no doubt that if the larger schools, especially the Albany's, Stony Brook's, maybe even Cent Conn St or Monmouth, put enough into the programs they could become very legit IAA teams. But the rest of the conference is either too small or hasn't shown any real interest in doing the same.

On the other note, not only would it be nice to pull an upset here or there, it would also be nice not to get blown out in almost every step-up game these teams play. Albany played 4 of these games last year and came away being outscored 138-21, being shut out in two of them. Some of these schools have never stayed within 30 points of a team from a fully funded IAA league. Actually getting some games to be competitive after half time might be a better short-term goal. Like I said, more power to these schools if their aspirations are higher, but there's a lot of work to do before they make that leap.

[aceinthehole]

GF- you're right .... Baby steps. Lets just keep all the games close, then worry about a few upsets.

No realist is going to say the NEC is on par (or even close) with any IAA conferences, but as you can see the effort is there for most schools. The problem with OOC sheduling is if we don't play some MAAC teams, who do we play? The Ivys (generally) wont ever play us. MEAC teams have full OOC scheules. Travel to Big West/Big South very expensive, especially if they won't return games. The only option is A-10 and PL, which most teams have done.

For example CCSU's OOC schedule has Colgate, URI, Marist, and St. Peters. That's 2 "up" games and 2 MAAC teams - and hopefully .500 record. Why would Central want to go 0-4, heading into the NEC playing 2 more A-10/PL teams? Isn't 2 games vs. the MAAC = to one UD vs. West Chester?

Further, if teams like Delaware don't like to see Albanys and Monmouths on the schedule (read the comments on this board), how is the NEC expected to "play up?" Its a 2 way street and the upper tier teams, must accept more games vs. NEC teams on their schedule for them to grow as a true IAA program.

To be fair and for the record, this season the NEC only has 2 games vs. non DIAA teams - RMU vs Rowan and Monmouth vs. California-PA. Also, although many NEC teams were DIII at some point prior to the "Dayton Rule" (Wagner has a DIII Natl Champ), not all teams were. Some are newer programs (Monmouth and Sacred Heart) and were never DIII. And Central Connecticut was always a DII team and faced opponents like Maine and Northeastern regularly in the 1970s before those teams were classified as IAA.

Bottom line is that there is a difference if teams (like a LaSalle) just put a bunch of kids out there with no support, but the NEC schools support these programs and the teams are making strides. We need support from the IAA community or these teams have no chance. I think people with a vision can see that programs like Albany, Central, Monmouth, RMU, Stony Brook can make it at the next level. I think PL fans can see that the NEC is in transition and is striving to emulate some of their sucess. I mean really what's the difference between Georgetown or Holy Cross and Albany or Central, other than conference affiliation? If the A-10 accepted a transitional Towson program, why wouldn't you treat NEC teams that want the same for them just as fair?

DYK? Albany, Monmouth and Robert Morris have players with contracts in the NFL for this season! Green Bay head coach Mike Sherman and former Cowboys HC Dave Campo are both CCSU alumni. Stony Brook just built a great FB stadium that is probably better than quite a few in the A-10 right now.

[bluehenbillk]

I've never seen SBU's new stadium but it doesn't take much to be better than some of the holes of the A-10, N'Eastern, URI, UNH, not too mention any names.

[MU Alum]

I couldnt have said it any better than that

[MU Alum]

I've never seen SBU's new stadium but it doesn't take much to be better than some of the holes of the A-10, N'Eastern, URI, UNH, not too mention any names.

Check it out
http://goseawolves.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091903aaa.html

[GannonFan]

I agree that several of the NEC schools (the ones I mentioned) could become full-fledged and competitive IAA schools - no argument there. I'm not sure how 2 MAAC games (the MAAC is the true epitome of DIII schools playing DIAA because of the Dayton Rule) equals playing West Chester - West Chester would never play these teams either. I'm sure other schools could be found to play against - the Big South has no shortage of teams who don't always schedule tough and the Ohio Valley isn't too far away. Penn has played Duquesne previously so the Ivy's aren't out of the question. Heck, Youngstown may even want to trade some of the DII's they feast on for an equally easy (or even more so) DIAA mid major team as they'll get the facade of playing a D1 opponent. I'm not saying to travel out to Montana, but there are closer options.

But the main point, and I think we agree, is that to be viewed as up and coming doing the better scheduling is one thing, now the games have to get a lot closer than they have been. That's my main gripe with the scheduling of Monmouth and Albany by UD - if these schools are getting blitzed by 30, 40, or 50 points by the middle to bottom of the A10, it's not going to be any prettier playing the top of the A10, unless they really pick it up on the field (and for Albany, UD awaits in 2006 so it better happen soon). You don't even need to win the games, just, like I said, keep the issue in doubt up to halftime at least.

Oh, and the one thing that both Holy Cross and Towson have going for them, that the NEC schools do not, is that both schools were successful at the IAA scholarship level in the past - Holy Cross had several great teams in the 80's and Towson even beat a good UD team in the early 90's before shrinking funding for football (which has picked up after leaving the Patriot). They've shown, that with support, they are competitive on the field - still waiting for that time to come for the NEC (it will come, but are we talking a couple years or a decade??).

[aceinthehole]

Your points are well taken. NEC must schedule up and start to keep 'em close!

Unlike MBB, as you know in FB there is a much bigger expense for travel so I still see NEC options limited (unless some of the conf. you named would be willing to return a game), but your point is understood. There are more games available its just not easy working out a deal agreeable to both sides.

Next, year CCSU will add DII Southern Connecticut (a regional DII top teir team). Is that better game than a MAAC team? I like the game a lot because its an instate, sister school, and historical rival - but its not a IAA team, so does that hurt SOS? What's the perception from other IAA schools. That's the problem with non-IAA games - Rowan is a great DIII team, but does RMU weaken their schedule by playing it. I think this is the delemia in scheduling - balancing, strength, rivals, cost, etc.

Finally, Holy Cross does have a lot of history, but didn't Towson play DIII, DII, IAA non-scholly, and its current form? While they may have had some good years, they've had some pretty bad ones too. I'm pretty sure Albany, Central, and Monmouth each own wins over them at some point. I think the NEC is a only 3-6 years away from competing with full IAA programs.

[89Hen]

Unlike MBB, as you know in FB there is a much bigger expense for travel
Depends on where you go and how much the home team is paying you.

[Doo Cane 4 ever]

There are several mid-major programs attempting to make the jump up to full 1-AA programs and it makes sense that they have to schedule tougher opponents to test the waters. 3 years ago Duquesne beat Lafayette and were promptly dropped from Lafayette's schedule, ditto for Bucknell and Holy Cross. This year Duquesne plays Fordham, Georgetown, Penn & Columbia in their continued efforts to gain some respect.
My point is: "What are these mid-majors expected to do?" For me, it is better to watch Duquesne lose by 30 at Penn than to have to travel to Iona and endure another game in that pitiful stadium and pretend that the MAAC is a legitimate 1-AA conference.
I can understand why fans of some 1-AA schools don't like playing mid-majors because of the smaller crowd, potential embarrassment of a loss and/or blowout score that makes a game boring. However, schools like Monmouth and Duquesne are simply attempting to see how good they really are by "playing up" and paving the way for an eventual move up to proper 1-AA.

[Ken_Z]

DC4ever,

i do not believe it is accurate to say Bucknell promptly dropped Duquesne after the one loss. the teams played (and Bucknell won) two very competitive games the last two years. they are off the schedule this year, but i seem to recall they might be back on next year (i'll check on that). also, Bucknell recruits heavily in the Pittsburg area, so i think that home and homes with Duq constitutes an attractive series for the school.

[Doo Cane 4 ever]

sorry, didn't mean to imply that Bucknell dropped Duquesne because they lost 3 years ago and I agree the 2 games in the last 2 years were very entertaining. It was only Lafayette that couldn't stomach the defeat and dropped the Dukes immediately.
My point was that it is very difficult for teams like Duquesne to evaluate how good they really are and whether they are ready for the move up when better 1-AA teams drop them off their schedule and leave the Dukes to battle it out with Iona and St. Peter's - oh, I can't wait !!!!!!!!!!! :bang:

[Andy]

[QUOTE=Doo Cane 4 ever]sorry, didn't mean to imply that Bucknell dropped Duquesne because they lost 3 years ago and I agree the 2 games in the last 2 years were very entertaining. It was only Lafayette that couldn't stomach the defeat and dropped the Dukes immediately.

What a load of crap. Lafayette's 2002 Media Guide (still accessible on their website), published in the Spring of '02--obviously, prior to the '02 loss to Duquesne--contains a full eleven game 2003 schedule. Duquesne isn't on it. Ten game schedules for '04 and '05 are also included and don't contain Duquesne.

[ngineer]

If people expect teams to 'step up' their schedules, than that means someone is going to be viewed as stepping theirs down, in order for the game to occur. Lehigh played SBU and Albany last year because of the holes caused by Penn and Princeton cancelling their contracts. These two mid-majors stepped up to fill the void salivating at such an opportunity. Lehigh took some flak for playing two mid-majors in one season, but was caught with little option. In retrospect, the games were good for both for different reasons. The only people who were not really happy were the fans because they weren't "name" opponents--hence the attendance for both games was about 3,000 below average (partly due to SBU and Albany not bringing many to visit, whereas Princeton and Penn would have brought 2-3,000 along).
So long as Delaware also schedules some challenging OOC's, I see nothing wrong with them also playing WCU and Monmouth.

[Ken_Z]

Duquesne is tentatively scheduled to visit Bucknell to kick off the 2006 season. ngineer's point is well taken re some teams have to "step down". PL teams are playing a fair number of games against the mid-majors, and many more would put us back in the position of folks saying we don't play anyone, hence don't deserve playoff consideration. if you want more than 2 or 3 "step up" games a year, you will probably have to make the commitment to move up, get into another conference, and take some lickings for several years.