Grass vs Artificial surface

[ChickenMan]

What do you think of artificial playing surfaces for college football? I never understood why schools with stadium's that host only 5-7 homes games a year opt to use the artificial stuff rather than a natural grass field. I also wonder if having an artificial surface is a plus or a minus when it comes to recruiting. To me it seems that artificial surfaces would be a negative... as athletes tend to prefer playing on grass... where the wear and tear factor less than on the carpet. I understand that multi purpose stadiums endure much more wear and tear and can benefit from artificial grass... but if you're only playing 5 or 6 home games a season... why not go for real grass???

[89Hen]

Aren't the new artificial surfaces much easier on the knees and injuries than the old astroturf of days gone by? I know it's only 6 games or so, but for a lot of the country, the growing season is over by the second home game.

[putter]

Montana's surface is SpinTurf which tries to emulate a softer grass surface. I think by taking away the grass it helps the visitors in the playoffs. When December came around the grass was frozen solid and not fun to play on at all. This new turf stays soft in any weather and, I believe, took away some of our homefield advantage.

[Anovafan]

I'll be a bit of a devil's advocate here, if I were in charge, I would never put in a natural grass field and am shocked when any NFL team puts in natural grass. With the new Field-turf/Sprint-turf you can guarantee a perfect playing surface in any weather condition. With NFL teams investing so much money in their players and their teams, I don't understand how you can risk a $100 million dollar QB getting hurt on a grass field because of a stupid divot. I've met with a few Sprint-turf reps and have seen the fields being built; you can customize the installations so much now that they can play exactly like grass, or play faster like the old astro-turf. The new fields are so much softer than the old astro-turf and have amazing drainage for rain games. I would much rather see a high quality game in the rain on Sprint-turf than a mud-fest where neither team can accomplish anything due to poor field conditions. Not to beat a dead horse, but I would have much rather seen the NC game last year on Sprint-turf, than that divot marred grass field at Chatty.

As for recruiting, I think Sprint-turf has an edge over grass. Players want a fast surface with the ability to make sharp cuts, which is guaranteed with artificial. With grass, you always have to worry about making sharp cuts. As for injuries, I think there are some recent studies that show the newer turfs are as safe, if not safer, than grass, because of the more grass-like construction of the surfaces.

[BlackSaturday]

Kidd Brewer has been artificial turf since the 70s I believe. KBS is/was used for football, mens & womens soccer, and field hockey. Prior to the 2003 season we switched over to Field turf.

[colgate13]

Our coach has stated that Colgate will have grass as long as he is around. So there must be some sort of preference out there...

[Proud Griz Man]

What do you think of artificial playing surfaces for college football? I I understand that multi purpose stadiums endure much more wear and tear and can benefit from artificial grass... but if you're only playing 5 or 6 home games a season... why not go for real grass???

In Montana, the grass was a great football surface in September and October. By November and December, Missoula had weather that did not allow the grass to grow/recover after Saturday games. I was sceptical of the turf, but believe it is the best for UM now. I understand that UM has much better drainage under the field too, minimizing risk of a wet, slippery turf. You saw UM's field ChickenMan, did you get a chance to walk on the turf after the game?

[ChickenMan]

No... I didn't get on the field... but it did look good.

[GrizFoo]

sprinturf
http://sprinturf.com/

[golionsgo]

What do you think of artificial playing surfaces for college football? I never understood why schools with stadium's that host only 5-7 homes games a year opt to use the artificial stuff rather than a natural grass field. I also wonder if having an artificial surface is a plus or a minus when it comes to recruiting. To me it seems that artificial surfaces would be a negative... as athletes tend to prefer playing on grass... where the wear and tear factor less than on the carpet. I understand that multi purpose stadiums endure much more wear and tear and can benefit from artificial grass... but if you're only playing 5 or 6 home games a season... why not go for real grass???


I'm as much of a traditionalist as anyone, but having had SprinTurf in Strawberry Stadium the last couple of years, I could never imagine going back to a natural grass surface. It drains UNBELIEVABLY WELL and our players love it. It's soft and plays a lot like real grass in terms of footing, so you don't have to worry about the types of injuries sustained on the old artificial turf. You also don't have to worry about maintenance costs or worrying about the field getting torn up if you have to play in a rainstorm, which is always a possibility for us through early October. Our first two games in 2003 were played in thunderstorms and our Northern Colorado game last year was played during Tropical Storm Matthew (yes we played). If we had natural grass, our field would have been in shambles the rest of the year.

I know the up front costs can be substantial, but honestly, I don't understand why more schools don't install the newer infill type surfaces in place of natural grass. It's more than worth it in my opinion.

[GannonFan]

I kinda like a game here or there that is a mud-fest - makes for some decent watching. I don't buy into the fact that every game needs to be played in perfect conditions - it's still football and I like having the variables. Although the UNI's like their dome, I'm just not an afficianado of indoor games or games where weather is reduced or taken out althogether as a factor.

[WMTribe90]

I agree the occassional game played in the mud, wind or snow adds to the game for me. Gameplanning and adjusting to the weather also adds to the strategy of the game. Lastly, I like grass and mud stains and the smell of freshly cut grass. WM has Bermuda grass, which is like playing football on a large putting green. Its fast, soft and doesn't cause the random knee injuries associated with turf. Lastly, for fans who have never had the pleasure of showering with fresh turf burns, you might change your minds about turf :eek:

[89Hen]

WM has Bermuda grass, which is like playing football on a large putting green. Its fast, soft and doesn't cause the random knee injuries associated with turf.
Yeah, but it's a bitch to putt on. :p

[Marcus Garvey]

To paraphrase the late Tug McGraw regarding his preference of Grass vs. Aritficial Turf:

"I dunno. I never smoked any artifical turf."

[Cocky]

The ability to use the stadium for more than football was our main reason. JSU hold several band camps which put a lot of wear and tear on natural grass. Plus the last two years, we have been unable to practice outside the week of the playoffs.

[golionsgo]

I kinda like a game here or there that is a mud-fest - makes for some decent watching. I don't buy into the fact that every game needs to be played in perfect conditions - it's still football and I like having the variables. Although the UNI's like their dome, I'm just not an afficianado of indoor games or games where weather is reduced or taken out althogether as a factor.


I certainly don't mind watching a game played in a quagmire, but only if my team isn't involved. We all have our preferences and my preference is for my team to play in the best conditions possible.

[golionsgo]

I agree the occassional game played in the mud, wind or snow adds to the game for me. Gameplanning and adjusting to the weather also adds to the strategy of the game. Lastly, I like grass and mud stains and the smell of freshly cut grass. WM has Bermuda grass, which is like playing football on a large putting green. Its fast, soft and doesn't cause the random knee injuries associated with turf. Lastly, for fans who have never had the pleasure of showering with fresh turf burns, you might change your minds about turf :eek:


The newer infill turf doesn't cause the same types of abbrasions caused on the older, harder astroturf. I do agree with you that there's nothing like the smell of "fresh cut grass" which is definitely preferable to old rubber tire smell, but sometimes you have to take the good with the bad and I much prefer our SprinTurf to the old natural grass we used to have.

[UAalum72]

"I dunno. I never smoked any artifical turf."

I know it's a paraphrase, but that makes no sense, nobody smokes turf. What he said was he never smoked artificial grass.

When the salesmen tell you the cost Sprinturf vs natural, they don't say that you have to factor in the replacement cost after 8-12 years. While real grass presumably keeps growing, UV light destroys the plastic.

[Ronbo]

From the horse's mouths.

“I started playing football in 1959 and Sprinturf is absolutely one of the best things I’ve ever seen in the sport. Pouring rain runs right through it and it’s always dry. You never have bad footing late in the season. You don’t need to water it and your players can still use their regular cleats.”

"The knock on some artificial surfaces is that they increase the risk of injury to players. Since we installed Sprinturf, our team has not had a single injury that we can attribute to the surface. Sprinturf plays true to natural grass and it stays consistent."

- Joe Glenn, Former Head Football Coach, University of Montana

"I have been playing or coaching football for most of my life. I've seen all the artificial turfs on the market, and Sprinturf is by far the best turf system I have ever seen."

- Andy Talley, Villanova University Head Football Coach

"I think it's the best field of this type that I've ever been on. I think the players have really enjoyed it. The one thing it gives us is every single step they take during a two-hour practice is consistent; there's no holes, no bad grass, no clumps."

- Mick Dennehy, Utah State University Head Football Coach

"No matter what the climate, our Sprinturf field is the one the players choose for practice. We actually have to flip a coin between offense and defense to see who gets to use it. That is how much our players and coaches enjoy using the turf.

From a safety aspect, the system is much easier on the body in comparison with older conventional AstroTurf systems. With the tufted fibers and the all-rubber infill, our players can plant, cut, and have normal impacts on the field without fear of injuries that can be associated with synthetic turf."

-Tommy Tuberville, Head Football Coach, Auburn University

"We chose Sprinturf because they were head and shoulders above the competition with regards to service, availability, and responsiveness."

- Dave Bryan, Director of Athletic Facilities and Operations, University of Pennsylvania

"When you're playing football in Minnesota after September the conditions stink. The ground is either frozen hard as rock or so muddy that you have absolutely no footing. Sprinturf is the perfect solution for the northern climate. You can plow the snow off quickly without damaging the field, and it's just like playing a normal October 50 degree day."

"Since we have had Sprinturf, we've been undefeated at home for two years and won a National Championship. It's the best turf I've ever seen"

- John Gagliardi, Saint John's University Head Football Coach

[GannonFan]

How much money/shoes/etc passed hands for all those coaches quotes? Forgive me if I don't assume that all these quotes were obtained for no "considerations". I'm sure if we had the internet back when AstroTurf was first introduced you find very similar comments (in "Everybody's All-American Dennis "The Grey Ghost" Quaid said the same kind of things as an astroturf promoter).

[golionsgo]

How much money/shoes/etc passed hands for all those coaches quotes? Forgive me if I don't assume that all these quotes were obtained for no "considerations". I'm sure if we had the internet back when AstroTurf was first introduced you find very similar comments (in "Everybody's All-American Dennis "The Grey Ghost" Quaid said the same kind of things as an astroturf promoter).


Well all I can tell you is that everyone I've talked to involved with our program, and even the high school coaches in the area who've played games or had 7-on-7 drills in our stadium, absolutely love the turf over grass. And I can promise you I didn't pay them for their endorsement. :) :) :)

[Ronbo]

How much money/shoes/etc passed hands for all those coaches quotes? Forgive me if I don't assume that all these quotes were obtained for no "considerations". I'm sure if we had the internet back when AstroTurf was first introduced you find very similar comments (in "Everybody's All-American Dennis "The Grey Ghost" Quaid said the same kind of things as an astroturf promoter).

Kind of a jaded neggy aren't we? Must be living on the E Coast with the other 350 people per square mile, being stuck in traffic all the time, and getting tolled every road you travel on. That would jade anyone.

[WMTribe90]

Hey, if you live in northern climes or use the field for multiple events or sports I can certainly see the advantage of field turf. Beyond those type considerations I'd take a well manicured grass field over turf any day of the week.

[catbob]

Fight about this at bobcatnation with some griz fans (http://bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard/viewtopic.php?t=2070&highlight=turf)

Here is a big ol fight we had about it, if anyone is interested. It has stats and quotes, it's a big heated debate. :)

[Ronbo]

Fight about this at bobcatnation with some griz fans (http://bobcatnation.com/bobcatboard/viewtopic.php?t=2070&highlight=turf)

Here is a big ol fight we had about it, if anyone is interested. It has stats and quotes, it's a big heated debate. :)

It's pretty much all Cat fans arguing amongst themselves. A couple Griz threw in their 2 cents. Our players like it and that's the most important thing.

[DCboyWCU]

Here's a shot of WCU's turf. Got out on it one day and tossed the football around a little. This stuff was so much fun to play around on. WCU also has a bermuda practice field to practice on. I also heard that some Asheville city high schools were going to install turf. Seems like a lot of $ for a high school.

full shot
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/wcar/galleries/Athletic-Facilities/g-WatersField-lg.jpg

Close up (note: this is a high school game)
http://www.prepalert.com/nc/Pisgah%20Bears/2004-05/Images2004-05/photos-mitchell/DSC01613.JPG

DCboy@WCU

[Ivytalk]

To paraphrase the late Tug McGraw regarding his preference of Grass vs. Aritficial Turf:

"I dunno. I never smoked any artifical turf."

Or, to quote another Philly sports legend, Dick "Don't Call Me Richie" Allen, "If a cow can't eat it, I don't wanna play on it."

[UAalum72]

Kind of a jaded neggy aren't we? Must be living on the E Coast with the other 350 people per square mile, being stuck in traffic all the time, and getting tolled every road you travel on. That would jade anyone.
You're welcome for the toll-free roads built with blue state money for almost no drivers .

[Marcus Garvey]

I know it's a paraphrase, but that makes no sense, nobody smokes turf. What he said was he never smoked artificial grass.

When the salesmen tell you the cost Sprinturf vs natural, they don't say that you have to factor in the replacement cost after 8-12 years. While real grass presumably keeps growing, UV light destroys the plastic.

The precise quote by Tug occured when a reporter asked him if he prefered grass or Astroturf. Tug's response was: "I dunno. I've never smoked Astroturf."
He didn't say "artifical grass."

[Ronbo]

You're welcome for the toll-free roads built with blue state money for almost no drivers .

Oh yeah! Thanks buddy!

[GeauxLions94]

To paraphrase the late Tug McGraw regarding his preference of Grass vs. Aritficial Turf:

"I dunno. I never smoked any artifical turf."


What you need is a hybrid. My friend Carl Spackler :bow: is a noted grass expert and this is what he suggests.

"This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff." :beerchug:

[kats89]

Sam Houston discussed the grass vs turf issues many times and have stayed with turf just because the university hosts so many Texas High School playoff games and there would be no grass when it was done. Supposedly we are going to the spinturf after this football season to be ready for '06.

[blukeys]

Or, to quote another Philly sports legend, Dick "Don't Call Me Richie" Allen, "If a cow can't eat it, I don't wanna play on it."

Sorry Ivytalk, the quote is "If a horse won't eat it, I don't wanna play on it."

Allen was a horseman and owned several racehorses and KNEW that horses were much more particular about what they would eat than a cow thus the quote.

Cows are so dumb and unparticular that they could eat Astroturf. (I would not drink the milk that was the result.) Horses will turn their noses up at weeds growing 2 feet high to nibble on grass that is not 2 in. high. Cows will eat anything in the field. Watch your step when you bring them in for milking though.

[Go...gate]

Nothing like green grass (the real stuff) and turning leaves on an October/November afternoon :). A little bit of Heaven right here on Earth.

[Mr. C]

Since we're quoting athletes, how about this one from tennis great Guillermo Vilas: "I used to say that grass is for cows, but now I say some grass is for tennis." (After winning his first grass-court tournament).

[Mr. C]

There are some places where grass just isn't practical for football in November or December. Appalachian State found a great alternative when it went to field turf a couple of years ago.

[DemiGS]

GSU's field is generally awesome. It is a high quality real grass field that was built to drain tons of water. I think in a lot of cases, fields that have problems with natural grass draining were poorly designed.

[SoCon48]

Grass is best when:

1. The climate is conducive
2. School likes to spend tons of $$$ on re-seeding (or re-sodding), herbicides, insecticides, fertilizers, mowing, trimming, painting/repainting lines, lettering and designs
3. Only used for football GAMES. No practices. No marching band, soccer, flag teams/field hockey, club teams, etc etc etc
4. No prankster sneaks in and pours a couple pounds of rock salt (or Round-UP) on the grass in mid-season

Otherwise, it's artificial..all the way

[SoCon48]

GSU's field is generally awesome. It is a high quality real grass field that was built to drain tons of water. I think in a lot of cases, fields that have problems with natural grass draining were poorly designed.


Heck yeah. You're almost in Florida climate. Even an idiot could grow good grass down there..even if purchased at Wal-Mart.

[SoCon48]

Nothing like green grass (the real stuff) and turning leaves on an October/November afternoon :). A little bit of Heaven right here on Earth.


But for those who are still in the play-offs in December after a few frosts, brown ain't so pretty. :mad:

A few heavy rains on game days can turn it to a nice reddish-brown mud hole.

[Ronbo]

Grass is best when:

1. The climate is conducive
2. School likes to spend tons of $$$ on re-seeding (or re-sodding), herbicides, insecticides, fertilizers, mowing, trimming, painting/repainting lines, lettering and designs
3. Only used for football GAMES. No practices. No marching band, soccer, flag teams/field hockey, club teams, etc etc etc
4. No prankster sneaks in and pours a couple pounds of rock salt (or Round-UP) on the grass in mid-season

Otherwise, it's artificial..all the way

Two years ago a couple UM students sneaked on the MSU field at night and poured roundup on the field in a giant M. I think they had to re-sod the area. :eek:

[TheValleyRaider]

But for those who are still in the play-offs in December after a few frosts, brown ain't so pretty. :mad:

A few heavy rains on game days can turn it to a nice reddish-brown mud hole.

Well, we avoid that unpleasant brown color in December because, well, it does a little more than frost up here. Actually, come to think of it, it doesn't really rain in december either. The field is a nice shade of white though. :D

[MR. CHICKEN]

Two years ago a couple UM students sneaked on the MSU field at night and poured roundup on the field in a giant M. I think they had to re-sod the area. :eek:

AH..."BETTERAH LIVIN' THROUGH CHEMISTRY"!

TURF vs ARTIFICAL.....MONTE SAYS "MAKES NO DIFFERNECE TA ME......DEY WILL BOTH RATTLE DUH EYE-BALLS...FROM 15 FEET"............AWK@A-10/GPI.ONE!

[AggiePride]

Even as an Ag school in one of the best areas in the nation for growing anything, our new stadium to be completed before next year will have field turf.

IMO there is nothing better than a perfectly manicured field of natural grass. But the reality is that only a few games ever get played on that surface every year and the the rest are played on an worn down, inconsistant, divited and sand filled field.

If every team could have a single use field, with only 4-6 home games played on it every year, and were in a good season long growing area... Than yeh natural grass would be my choice.

But the fact is very few teams have that situation, and IMO field turf is a much better option when they don't. And having played on both, I would take field turf over natural grass EXCEPT for that first home game when the natural stuff actually holds up.

[Obzerver]

Grass, mud and blood please...

[SoCon48]

[QUOTE=AggiePride]Even as an Ag school in one of the best areas in the nation for growing anything, our new stadium to be completed before next year will have field turf.

IMO there is nothing better than a perfectly manicured field of natural grass. But the reality is that only a few games ever get played on that surface every year and the the rest are played on an worn down, inconsistant, divited and sand filled field.

BINGO! :cool: :cool: :cool:

[SoCon48]

Nothing like green grass (the real stuff) and turning leaves on an October/November afternoon :). A little bit of Heaven right here on Earth.

Hmm, what's it look like come play-off time??? or has that happened in recent memory? :cool: :cool:

[WMTribe90]

I would like to see a cost comparison (long term) for maintaing a grass field versus replacing artficial turf every 8 or 10 years? Anybody have any idea?

Speaking only for WM, our playing surface is used for football only (five games a year). It drains well except for the corners of the endzones and typically is in good a shape for the last game as it was the first. If we do host a playoff game it will be brown, but the traction is still fine.

To each their own, but I wouldn't trade our service for any other.

[UAalum72]

I would like to see a cost comparison (long term) for maintaing a grass field versus replacing artficial turf every 8 or 10 years? Anybody have any idea?

Yes, the only cost comparisons I've seen end before replacement of worn-out plastic is factored in, although they do include maintenance of natural grass yearly.

Monmouth just announced they are installing FieldTurf this summer
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050802/SPORTS02/508020413/1010/SPORTS

Future Monmouth opponents are Patriot League schools Colgate in 2006 and Lafayette in 2007, along with a trip to Delaware of the Atlantic 10 and a home date with Lafayette in 2008.

[SoCon48]

[QUOTE=UAalum72]Yes, the only cost comparisons I've seen end before replacement of worn-out plastic is factored in, although they do include maintenance of natural grass yearly.


Just factor in, also, the fact that it likely is used only 5, 6, 7 times a year. One high school band festival often leaves good bermuda looking like a sheep pasture. And heaven forbid anybody actually practices anything on it.
Factor in, too, millions of gallons of water irrigated on to the field over a decade.

[ngineer]

I kinda like a game here or there that is a mud-fest - makes for some decent watching. I don't buy into the fact that every game needs to be played in perfect conditions - it's still football and I like having the variables. Although the UNI's like their dome, I'm just not an afficianado of indoor games or games where weather is reduced or taken out althogether as a factor.

Boy am I with you there. I love the dirt, the mud, the 'conditions'...I saw a game at Detroits Silverdome years ago, and thought I was going to the movies. Seemed so artificial.
However, I do recognize that economies sometime drive the decision. Many schools use their football stadium for soccer and lacrosse (mens and womens) so that's a lot of foot traffic that tears up grass real fast. The newer stuff is pretty good--a lot more give than what I experienced on Franklin Field's old artificial surface in the early 1970's--felt llike concrete.

[SoCon48]

Unless someone needs to graze their cows, sheep, or goats on it, for consistency, economics, fair and equitable playing conditions for both opponents, I vote for a good artificial surface with nice looking logos permanently :cool: :cool: painted on.

It just plain sucks when the field conditions dictate the game. For example. An option team shows up to play on a field that got 6 inches of rain the night before (or the head coach tuned on the sprinklers for 10 hours).
Or the home team has absolutely no offense except an old fashioned fullback who can get 3 yards EVERY time you hand him the ball. Guess who wins in the slop??

[ChickenMan]

Guess I'm 'old school'... but I've always felt that the elements were supposed to be a part of a football game. To me...domes... artificial turf and moving a February game (Super Bowl) to a neutral warm weather location really detracts from a true football atmosphere. I can live with the new improved artificial surfaces... but I really detest having football games played in domes. Dump the domes... I'd rather see the game played in the rain... mud or snow.

[colgate13]

Hmm, what's it look like come play-off time??? or has that happened in recent memory? :cool: :cool:

Seems to me that my memory recalls our preference for the real thing wasn't such a bad decision come play off time.

[colgate13]

It just plain sucks when the field conditions dictate the game.

Why? It rewards a multi-dimensional team when there are less than "ideal" playing conditions. Artificial surfaces are too video game-ish for me.

And what is "ideal" anyway? Ideal for the fast passing team is different than the ground it out running game. There is a reason why this game is (or was anyway) played outside, isn't cancelled when it rains and physical contact is required to stop a play. Anyone afraid to get their jersey dirty should go play baseball.

There is more than one way to be athletic and changing weather and field conditions can highlight different talents in different areas. I'm not for making football a one dimensional game of speed above all else. Strength and agility in multiple conditions is a more interesting game to watch IMO.

[SoCon48]

Guess I'm 'old school'... but I've always felt that the elements were supposed to be a part of a football game. To me...domes... artificial turf and moving a February game (Super Bowl) to a neutral warm weather location really detracts from a true football atmospher. I can live with the new improved artificial surfaces... but I really detest having football games played in domes. Dump the domes... I'd rather see the game played in the rain... mud or snow.

In the rain, snow, cold, wind, but on a perfect artificial surface.

[SoCon48]

Why? It rewards a multi-dimensional team when there are less than "ideal" playing conditions. Artificial surfaces are too video game-ish for me.

And what is "ideal" anyway? Ideal for the fast passing team is different than the ground it out running game. There is a reason why this game is (or was anyway) played outside, isn't cancelled when it rains and physical contact is required to stop a play. Anyone afraid to get their jersey dirty should go play baseball.

There is more than one way to be athletic and changing weather and field conditions can highlight different talents in different areas. I'm not for making football a one dimensional game of speed above all else. Strength and agility in multiple conditions is a more interesting game to watch IMO.

The I take it you weren't one of the folks bitching and making jokes about Chattanooga's sod coming loose in last year's championship play-off game??

[SoCon48]

Seems to me that my memory recalls our preference for the real thing wasn't such a bad decision come play off time.

OK, I'll bite. How many "other than 1st/2nd round" games has Colgate participated in? How many N championships or finals have you reached/won?
Just curious and too lazy to google.

[colgate13]

OK, I'll bite. How many "other than 1st/2nd round" games has Colgate participated in? How many N championships or finals have you reached/won?
Just curious and too lazy to google.

I was directly referring to 2003. As you may or may not know, Colgate's appearance in the semifinals of 2003 marked the first time a Patriot League team had made it to the semis. So therefore, 1 national championship game would be the answer to your second question.

On topic though, ask other Patriot League teams if they like traveling up to Colgate in Oct/Nov and check out Colgate's winning record at home during those months. The weather conditions, and field conditions, favor us.

[colgate13]

The I take it you weren't one of the folks bitching and making jokes about Chattanooga's sod coming loose in last year's championship play-off game??

No, wasn't me.

Edit: In fact, I distinctly remember the taste and feel of mud in my mouthpiece as a great feeling. Being in those conditions, battling an opponent - those are some of my better memories. Sure, there was an interception or two that slipped through my slippery, muddy hands; but man, it was fun to play in.

[catbob]

If you can't afford to play on natural grass for whatever reason, switch to sprintturf or something. If you can, regardless of weather conditions, you should play outside on real grass. All these arguments that games should be playing on perfect surfaces and in perfect conditions are ridiculous. Football is an outdoor sport.

The day every fan demands football be playing on something other than natural grass is the day I lose all respect for fans.

Why don't we start playing baseball on something nice and soft, you can get nasty rasberries sliding you know. That dirt can be pretty painful stuff.

While were at it, golfing on grass is kind of stupid as well. I think I'd like to try golfing on rubber, that sounds fun. Maybe make a bouncy surface so my drive can bounce 400 yards.

If football wasn't meant to be played on grass, how come all these new turfs are trying to copy grass as close as they can? They all claim to look, feel, and play like natural grass. They are trying to create a safer natural grass, and that is commendable, but I just come from a outdoor background.

I just don't see how playing on a fake field is appealing. Football, a lot of people may or may not realize, is about tradition. The forward pass, touchdowns, and outdoors on grass are all traditions in football. You never saw pro baseball players switch to aluminum bats (I could be wrong). Those were supposedly the best thing to happen to baseball, but new studies are showing they are just more dangerous.

Besides, why would you want to ruin the beauty of our turf and the surroundings by putting something fake into it?

Besides, I love the look of a player getting up with a huge chunk of grass and dirt in his helmet.

You want us to end up like the AFL?

[SoCon48]

If you can't afford to play on natural grass for whatever reason, switch to sprintturf or something. If you can, regardless of weather conditions, you should play outside on real grass. All these arguments that games should be playing on perfect surfaces and in perfect conditions are ridiculous. Football is an outdoor sport.

The day every fan demands football be playing on something other than natural grass is the day I lose all respect for fans.

Why don't we start playing baseball on something nice and soft, you can get nasty rasberries sliding you know. That dirt can be pretty painful stuff.

While were at it, golfing on grass is kind of stupid as well. I think I'd like to try golfing on rubber, that sounds fun. Maybe make a bouncy surface so my drive can bounce 400 yards.

If football wasn't meant to be played on grass, how come all these new turfs are trying to copy grass as close as they can? They all claim to look, feel, and play like natural grass. They are trying to create a safer natural grass, and that is commendable, but I just come from a outdoor background.

I just don't see how playing on a fake field is appealing. Football, a lot of people may or may not realize, is about tradition. The forward pass, touchdowns, and outdoors on grass are all traditions in football. You never saw pro baseball players switch to aluminum bats (I could be wrong). Those were supposedly the best thing to happen to baseball, but new studies are showing they are just more dangerous.

Besides, why would you want to ruin the beauty of our turf and the surroundings by putting something fake into it?

Besides, I love the look of a player getting up with a huge chunk of grass and dirt in his helmet.

You want us to end up like the AFL?


Ahh Hell. Natural? Then let's do away with the pads, too. Not even any leather helmets (they were the first technological innovation for football!!
That'll separate the men from the boys. Oh yeah, do away with the huge halogen lights and go back to the early days with the brown striped white night time football, too. And throw out the $300 shoes/cleats. Also, no field paint..back to the eye burning lime.
And the Flying Wedge that Teddy Roosevelt had outlawed!
NOW THOSE ARE TRADITIONS!! :eek: :eek:

The reason all these turf companies are trying to copy natural grass..have you ever taken a fall after a tackle on the original Astroturf? That sure as H wasn't for sissies. Hard as concrete. Not to mention PERMANENT rug burn scars. :mad:

[SoCon48]

No, wasn't me.

Edit: In fact, I distinctly remember the taste and feel of mud in my mouthpiece as a great feeling. Being in those conditions, battling an opponent - those are some of my better memories. Sure, there was an interception or two that slipped through my slippery, muddy hands; but man, it was fun to play in.

Gosh yeah. I remember when I was four and my mom let me play in the mud. But I got it out of my system. :)

[WMTribe90]

I think I-AA 2005 works for Spin Turf :)

...or maybe he's allergic to grass?

[AggiePride]

Why is everyone bringing up "perfect" conditions. This is regarding artificial vs. natural turf. Of course football is played in every condition and weather imaginable, that's the game.

But personally I think having a crappy field that causes the guys in the trenches to not get proper footing and lose battles due to a muddy spot and a slip is stupid to romanticize about.

Snow, rain and whatnot is part of football, but IMO a field that will not grab your cleets is not. And having battles won or lost due to inconsistancies based on what patch of crappy field you happen to be on at that time is not wanting "perfect conditions" but just a level playing field.

In rain, cold, snow, wind everyone has to deal with the same factors. But on a crappy field that is torn up, not everyone has to deal with the same factors and battles will sometimes be won/lost not due to play calling and skill, but instead decided on the basis of if you happen to be standing in a sand filled muddy divot or on intact turf.

Again I do not think every team should go have the artificial stuff installed, and the teams that are lucky enough to have a single use field and a good growing turf then I am all for it, but in many cases where year after year the field has shown to become unplayable as the season rolls on, I think it is a great solution.

[89Hen]

Sure, there was an interception or two that slipped through my slippery, muddy hands
What was your excuse the other times, sun, wind, cold? :p ;)

[SoCon48]

Why is everyone bringing up "perfect" conditions. This is regarding artificial vs. natural turf. Of course football is played in every condition and weather imaginable, that's the game.

But personally I think having a crappy field that causes the guys in the trenches to not get proper footing and lose battles due to a muddy spot and a slip is stupid to romanticize about.

Snow, rain and whatnot is part of football, but IMO a field that will not grab your cleets is not. And having battles won or lost due to inconsistancies based on what patch of crappy field you happen to be on at that time is not wanting "perfect conditions" but just a level playing field.

In rain, cold, snow, wind everyone has to deal with the same factors. But on a crappy field that is torn up, not everyone has to deal with the same factors and battles will sometimes be won/lost not due to play calling and skill, but instead decided on the basis of if you happen to be standing in a sand filled muddy divot or on intact turf.

Again I do not think every team should go have the artificial stuff installed, and the teams that are lucky enough to have a single use field and a good growing turf then I am all for it, but in many cases where year after year the field has shown to become unplayable as the season rolls on, I think it is a great solution.


My thoughts exactly, Aggie, and very well written. :cool: :cool:

[AUTiger3]

Even though the new artificial surfaces are better, there's still no substitute for being natural. Grass is where it's at man.

[McTailGator]

sprinturf
http://sprinturf.com/


I like their home turf product. :)

I can picture that putting green in my back yard now.

[bkrownd]

Don't forget that many stadiums also must serve purposes OTHER than football, sometimes 12 months a year.

[blukeys]

Don't forget that many stadiums also must serve purposes OTHER than football, sometimes 12 months a year.

And that the New England grass growing season ends in October (at best). Not to mention Montana, Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota.........

From all of the injury studies I have seen natural grass is superior to turf. That is why the NFL is going back to grass wherever they can. (Too much invested in athletes and the player's union is pushing hard for natural turf). Over time I believe the artificial variety will make sense for Northern teams as I think the product will continue to evolve and improve.

I spent quite a few nights drinking with the guy who did the most recent upgrade to UD's turf (about 8 years ago). Long term the economics favor Natural Grass in the UD situation. BUT every situation is unique and the costs are different for every location.

[SoCon48]

"From all of the injury studies I have seen natural grass is superior to turf. That is why the NFL is going back to grass wherever they can. (Too much invested in athletes and the player's union is pushing hard for natural turf). Over time I believe the artificial variety will make sense for Northern teams as I think the product will continue to evolve and improve."


Depends highly:
1. on brand/type of artificial turf.
2. on what kinds of injuries you're looking at (i mean like are you counting rug burns, too) (nothing is worse than having your foot firmly planted in two inch bermuda when your knee is hit from the side)
3. on condition/time of year of the natural turf

[SoCon48]

I think I-AA 2005 works for Spin Turf :)

...or maybe he's allergic to grass?

Nope, just saw way too many games decided by:
1. the conditions of the field.
2. which team happened to know where the potholes, mud lollies, bad spots/good spots from which to kick
3. which team the lousy conditions favored (run vs pass, wide open vs 3 yds in the mud
4. coaches soaking hell out of the field the night before
5. 20 years in coaching/athletic training on high school grass fields (saw 3 really busted legs in one game. 5 broken legs on one team in one season) All convinced me the artificial vs natural stats are a crock
6. Last few games of the year played on natural turf that was nothing better than concrete
Spending coaching staff time lining off, re-sodding, painting loogos, chemical treating, de-vandalizing natural turf. No fun. :bang: