Big South officials call for playoff expansion

[Bison_Kent]

Here is an article out of the Florence (SC) Morning News. According to this, the Big South would like an expanded playoffs (from 16 to 24 teams).

Big South wants an Expanded Playoff Field (http://www.morningnewsonline.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=FMN%2FMGArticle%2FFMN_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031784169386&path=!sports)

[rokamortis]

Yeah - they have wanted this for a while.

[SoCon48]

We do NOT need 24 teams in the play-offs. That would water down the play-offs like the so called Bowl games have been done.

[rokamortis]

I know this article will get slammed - I don't agree with it 100%. Saying CCU had 10-1 record and got left out is misleading. We all know CCU didn't earn a spot in the playoffs - I wish he would have addressed that point as well. Expansion probably wouldn't have helped us last year anyway.

I do think having expanded playoffs is a good thing.

[OL FU]

I believe this has been debated before, but I will be the first to say I am opposed. I think there is around 75 teams (may be less) with a play off shot, not counting non-participants and mid-majors. I don't think the playoffs should be open to 1/3 of the teams. Now, if that number of teams increases to 90 or 100 teams I would think differently.

But I do understand the Big South's position, just don't agree with it.

[The Gadfly]

The "BCS" schools of I-AA would never allow this. How ironic.

[rokamortis]

We do NOT need 24 teams in the play-offs. That would water down the play-offs like the so called Bowl games have been done.

How so? You give 8 more teams a chance at the NC, isn't that a good thing. It is only one more weekend.

[OL FU]

How so? You give 8 more teams a chance at the NC, isn't that a good thing. It is only one more weekend.


I don't think it would be good for 1/3 of the eligible teams to be in the playoffs. The selection process will never be perfect and some body will whine (not speaking to CCU directly) regardless of whether there are 16 , 24 or 32 teams. Somebody will always be left out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I believe this has been debated before, but I will be the first to say I am opposed. I think there is around 75 teams (may be less) with a play off shot, not counting non-participants and mid-majors. I don't think the playoffs should be open to 1/3 of the teams. Now, if that number of teams increases to 90 or 100 teams I would think differently.

But I do understand the Big South's position, just don't agree with it.

I'm not a fan of expanding the playoffs, but excluding the mid-majors from your calculus isn't fair. They do have every right to qualify on their own merits, and nowhere does it say a mid-majors can't qualify for the playoffs. Every I-AA school can merit a playoff berth, save the Ivies (8), Grambling, Southern, and Alabama St. That's 109. If you add the schools can't get to 8 D-I victories, you'd still have at least 95 teams that could qualify.

Back to the playoff debate. The big problem with expanding the playoffs means that you'd really have to shorten the season to 10 games, which none of the playoff conferences want. So, it's very unlikely to happen the way things stand now.

[JohnStOnge]

Set objective criteria for what it takes for a conference to get an automatic bid to the playoffs. If a conference achieves meeting the criteria, give it an automatic bid. If it's left at 16 teams that'll cut out some of the at large bids but it'll also mean every team has a shot at the start of the season to earn it on the field regardless of what anybody thinks.

[JohnStOnge]

Lehigh, why would you have to shorten the season to 10 games? Right now they're finished with the tournament by mid December. I-AA is finished with its playoff post season before the I-A bowls even really get started. I think there's maybe one bowl game before the I-AA championship.

[OL FU]

but excluding the mid-majors from your calculus isn't fair. They do have every right to qualify on their own merits, and nowhere does it say a mid-majors can't qualify for the playoffs. Every I-AA school can merit a playoff berth, save the Ivies (8), Grambling, Southern, and Alabama St. That's 109. If you add the schools can't get to 8 D-I victories, you'd still have at least 95 teams that could qualify.

How often does a mid-major get in the playoffs?

Also, I dislike the byes, If you are going to expand it, go all out and make it 32 teams.

[putter]

If the mid-majors want to be in the playoffs then step up and play the big teams. Albany played at Montana a few years ago and lost 45-0 but it was fun having them there and at least they scheduled the game. If you want respect, you have to earn it and be recognized by the I-AA nation.

[OL FU]

If the mid-majors want to be in the playoffs then step up and play the big teams. Albany played at Montana a few years ago and lost 45-0 but it was fun having them there and at least they scheduled the game. If you want respect, you have to earn it and be recognized by the I-AA nation.

And that is my point. Practically, there are 75 or so teams that can participate in the playoffs.

[89Hen]

Somebody will always be left out.
:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: Team number 25 is upset and then 24 goes to 32, but then number 33 is pissed.... no thanks.

[89Hen]

Right now they're finished with the tournament by mid December. I-AA is finished with its playoff post season before the I-A bowls even really get started. I think there's maybe one bowl game before the I-AA championship.

JMU 31 - Montana 21, Friday, Dec. 17, 2005

Tuesday, Dec. 21 - Champs Sports Bowl (ESPN)
Wednesday, Dec. 22 - GMAC Bowl (ESPN)
Thursday, Dec. 23 - Fort Worth Bowl (ESPN)
Thursday, Dec. 23 - Las Vegas Bowl (ESPN)
Friday, Dec. 24 - Hawaii Bowl (ESPN)

WEEK 15
Saturday, Dec. 18
Pittsburgh 33 at N.Y. Giants 30
Washington 26 at San Francisco 16
Carolina 31 at Atlanta 34 OT

WEEK 16
Friday, Dec. 24
Green Bay 34 at Minnesota 31
Saturday, Dec. 25
Oakland 30 at Kansas City 31
Denver 37 at Tennessee 16

[golionsgo]

I believe this has been debated before, but I will be the first to say I am opposed. I think there is around 75 teams (may be less) with a play off shot, not counting non-participants and mid-majors. I don't think the playoffs should be open to 1/3 of the teams. Now, if that number of teams increases to 90 or 100 teams I would think differently.

But I do understand the Big South's position, just don't agree with it.


I'm in favor of 24 teams. I don't think 1/3 of the available playoff pool is too much at all. In fact, I think it's probably just right.

[GannonFan]

First of all, I have no problem continuing to deny the Big South an automatic bid as long as they don't meet the criteria for number of teams in the conference - they still show 5 teams so without the sixth, no automatic. Sorry. If we start waiving the minimum rule why don't we just have a bunch of really small conferences (1, 2, 3 teams) start forming and clammoring for playoff spots? I'm already a bit leery of the Big South concept of trying to force their way into the playoffs (take a collection of underperforming, often last place teams from conferences or independents that don't make the playoffs, form a conference of these teams, and then demand an automatic berth to the winner of this weak conference) but you know, if they follow the rules good for them finding a way into the playoffs. However, they're still a school short so bringing up Coastal last year and (this one made me laugh) Gardner Webb the year before (was there any grief over Gardner Webb not making it? Even from the Gardner Webb people) as automatics are moot points. Get a sixth school and I'll come out in favor of an automatic. Same for the Great West, although frankly I think they are in a position to moan more than the Big South - they already have enough teams (better teams IMO) but are saddled with the NCAA problem of requiring schools something short of a millenium before they become playoff eligible.

If conferences like the Big South and Great West make the changes necessary to become qualified conferences (minumum 6 playoff eligible teams) then by all means, let them each have an auto and expand to 24 teams. The season will have to start a week earlier, though, as having the championship game right around Christmas is simply a non-starter. Of course, then, I'm sure we'll have to listen to griping about seeding (Coastal probably should have been a top 4 seed last year for instance and had a bye) so I'm sure unhappiness will continue to reign for quite some time.

[Sly Fox]

Has there ever been any assurance that six teams will bring the Big South an automatic bid? If so, I haven't heard it. The Big South just would like to have an opportunity to have a team get a shot through an at-large. Right now, we can beat everybody on our schedule (I know, but scheduling tougher teams is not as easy as some of you guys seem to think ... its a vicious cycle) and still safely assume we aren't even being remotely considered. When you are in one of the auto bid conferences, I'm sure you could care less. For the rest of us, there's no denying it sucks. You can't blame our league for trying.

[GannonFan]

Get the sixth team and find out - right now you can be denied an auto just on that basis alone. At least when the complaints come rolling in you can be justified in saying so.

[rokamortis]

I'm surprised the top teams don't support this as they would likely get a week off to heal and prepare.

[GannonFan]

I'm surprised the top teams don't support this as they would likely get a week off to heal and prepare.

Some conferences, especially the Southern, already try to arrange their schedules so that their regular season ends a week early and they get the week off you're talking about. I'm sure there'll be some who say a week off could make them rusty come the second round and there'll be some who would welcome the bye week. Ain't gonna please everyone.

[OL FU]

I'm surprised the top teams don't support this as they would likely get a week off to heal and prepare.

A week off works both ways. In the old days, FU got a bye, and Western Carolina came to Greenville the following week. Western went to the championship game, not FU.

My biggest problem, and I disagree with Golionsgo, is I think the playoffs should be a reward. I don't consider placing 1/3 of the potential teams in the playoffs a reward.

[OL FU]

Some conferences, especially the Southern, already try to arrange their schedules so that their regular season ends a week early and they get the week off you're talking about. I'm sure there'll be some who say a week off could make them rusty come the second round and there'll be some who would welcome the bye week. Ain't gonna please everyone.

I am not positve, but I think only the Eagles do that that. FU takes its break before the GSU game.

[89rabbit]

I think we should go the other way. Why have 16 teams lets go with 8 . . . come on we all know that New Hampshire had no chance of beating Georgia Southern last year that was a wasted game. . . oh wait. ;)

[OL FU]

I think we should go the other way. Why have 16 teams lets go with 8 . . . come on we all know that New Hampshire had no chance of beating Georgia Southern last year that was a wasted game. . . oh wait. ;)

Even better let's make it 64 teams, it only adds two weeks. Then VMI could complain about not getting invited

[rokamortis]

We should just have a committee choose the top two teams and they could play - now that would work wonderfully.

[OL FU]

We should just have a committee choose the top two teams and they could play - now that would work wonderfully.

Hell, let's don't even play the regular season,
James Madison and Furman, right here right now :D

There is no right number, some think it should be more, but I doubt many think it should be less. At the same time, it is football, not basketball. I think 15 games is enough and I think 16 team playoff works well. On the other hand, if the Ivy league and the SWAC participated, I would support increasing the number.

[SoCon48]

I am not positve, but I think only the Eagles do that that. FU takes its break before the GSU game.


App used to do that (use the bye week as the last week, however:

1. Haven't made the play-offs inn the past couple years.
2. Has Elon the week we normally have a bye at end.

[Retro]

We don't need 24 teams in the playoffs and dragging it out another week or two! It's fine the way it is... If the big south adds 1 or 2 teams AND plays better quality OOC teams and wins, then they deserve a spot.. Whether it be at large or automatic...

The simple fact is that you have to win and win quality games.. Just giving them an automatic berth is not warrented unless they prove the can at least compete with some decent teams from the conferences already getting auto bids...

If we give them an auto bid just because of 6 teams or because we expand the playoffs, your just defeating the purpose of playing your way into the playoffs... You want in? Then beat someone from the Southern, Soutland, etc..

[ngineer]

If the mid-majors want to be in the playoffs then step up and play the big teams. Albany played at Montana a few years ago and lost 45-0 but it was fun having them there and at least they scheduled the game. If you want respect, you have to earn it and be recognized by the I-AA nation.

That's the main point. If you want to dance to the band, you gotta pay the man.

[Mr. C]

The NCAA has made it clear that it doesn't want to play the championship game any later than that weekend before Christmas, so the idea of 24 teams is pretty much moot. The best chance that a new conference has for getting a new auto bid is for NCAA legislation to be passed to do away with the 50-50 rule (50 percent of the playoff field reserved for auto bids and the other 50 percent for at-large teams). I think 16 is the perfect size. If the Ivy votes in postseason play, or the Great West and Big South qualify for auto bids, just change the rules and add auto bids, taking away at-large spots (which are what the committee gets criticized the most for anyway).

I don't think anyone from the Big South thinks there is any serious chance of a 24-team championship tournament.

[rokamortis]

The only way the expanded playoffs would work is if they would start a week early like D-II.

Does the BSC commish think it will really happen? Not likely, but he has to do something to make his constituents happy. I think he'd rather say he's fighting for this than talk about adding schools to the BSC ... :eek:

[Mr. C]

I talked to the commish for extended lengths on Thursday and Friday. He said he doesn't think an expanded playoff is likely to happen, but that changing the 50-50 rule is a strong possibility. He doesn't see a school like the OVC, or the MEAC losing their auto bids. But until the Big South gets a sixth school, it doesn't really matter.

[rokamortis]

I just think an expanded playoff would be better - regardless of Coastal's / BSC chances or not. Getting rid of the 50-50 split doesn't do much for me. I'd rather he find a way to add a couple more decent teams to the conference than to worry about this. I know that is easier said than done.

[SoCon48]

Ah Hell, let's just let EVERYBODY in and start the play-offs in mid September. Naah, on second thought, make it August and change it to double elimination.
Umm and give some handicap points to the non-scholarship schools. :bang:

[rokamortis]

All these people that want to limit the playoffs to 16 - I guess you would be willing to give up your auto bid to the basketball or baseball championships? May as well just have the top 16 teams from each of those sports compete - forget the auto bids.

I thought the whole point was to give the kids playing a chance to earn it on the field? The 'lower' divisions do it, why not I-AA?

[henfan]

But until the Big South gets a sixth school, it doesn't really matter.

Wow, odd that Kyle didn't mention THAT minor point in any of his tirades. Seems he'd better worry more about maintaining schools like CCU (not to mention adding teams) and less about potential playoff scenarios.

[OL FU]

All these people that want to limit the playoffs to 16 - I guess you would be willing to give up your auto bid to the basketball or baseball championships? May as well just have the top 16 teams from each of those sports compete - forget the auto bids.

I thought the whole point was to give the kids playing a chance to earn it on the field? The 'lower' divisions do it, why not I-AA?

There are, I think, in excess of 300 teams competing for the basketball title. Yes, probably only ten or so have a shot. 64 teams into 300 is not to far off from 16 into 75.

[GannonFan]

There are, I think, in excess of 300 teams competing for the basketball title. Yes, probably only ten or so have a shot. 64 teams into 300 is not to far off from 16 into 75.

Actually, there are 330 DI basketball schools competing for 65 spots (19.7% of the teams make the post-season) - in IAA, if you discount the mids, there are 16 spots for 75 teams (21.3% of the teams make the post-season). Maybe March Madness is too restrictive???

[ccujacket]

Actually, there are 330 DI basketball schools competing for 65 spots (19.7% of the teams make the post-season) - in IAA, if you discount the mids, there are 16 spots for 75 teams (21.3% of the teams make the post-season). Maybe March Madness is too restrictive???

True, but in DI basketball every conference get's an autobid. So you don't have this fairness issue.


Wow, odd that Kyle didn't mention THAT minor point in any of his tirades. Seems he'd better worry more about maintaining schools like CCU (not to mention adding teams) and less about potential playoff scenarios.

Find that sixth school for us.

[dbackjon]

True, but in DI basketball every conference get's an autobid. So you don't have this fairness issue.



Find that sixth school for us.

Every existing conference - they have capped the number of autobids, so a new conference would be SOL, unless the expand the playoffs.


Why should anyone do your work for you? You want school number six? Make it worth someone's while.....

[colgate13]

True, but in DI basketball every conference get's an autobid. So you don't have this fairness issue.

Yes and no. There is the play in game...

[ccujacket]

Every existing conference - they have capped the number of autobids, so a new conference would be SOL, unless the expand the playoffs.

Why should anyone do your work for you? You want school number six? Make it worth someone's while.....

There won't be a new conference half of the DI independents are transitional and will be absorbed by current basketball conferences and then others like TAMU - CC and Longwood will most likely be in existing conferences soon enough as well. That leaves basically SSU and we all know their story.

The reason I asked if someone could name a sixth school is because there isn't one. Savannah State is basically the only option out there in our region and I seriously doubt that would help our playoff standing. So basically we are stuck waiting for some DII like Presbyterian or West Georgia to come up and even then would that garner us an autobid?

Edit: Colgate, I think we would take a play-in game if that was an option.

[Retro]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs. xprost2x

[89rabbit]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs. xprost2x

Tell that to Cal-Poly. :nonono2:

[GannonFan]

Gotta agree with Retro, if you think trying to find a sixth team is too hard (you can also try to pick low lying fruit from other conferences or hope someone picks up football - heck, in the CAA alone, besides ODU starting football in 2009 there are rumblings from George Mason and Georgia State as well), then the only way to do it is by having a strong OOC schedule and beating most of those teams. Independents used to get into the playoffs all the time doing that - UD got into the playoffs as an Indy before joining the Yankee, and Hofstra and Youngstown St made the playoffs a lot in the '90's by playing some real meaty schedules. If you want to back in by playing in a weak conference with an autobid, then find the sixth team. If you can't do that start playing a good schedule. This year's schedule is a start (if you go 3-0 in the OOC games and don't drop the ball in conference then CCU is in) - going 2-1 will cause discussion, and going 1-2 or 0-3 will keep CCU out.

[UAalum72]

Actually, there are 330 DI basketball schools competing for 65 spots (19.7% of the teams make the post-season) - in IAA, if you discount the mids, there are 16 spots for 75 teams (21.3% of the teams make the post-season). Maybe March Madness is too restrictive???
No, because March Madness doesn't discount anyone before figuring the percentage.

[colgate13]

Edit: Colgate, I think we would take a play-in game if that was an option.

Short of dropping the 50% requirement mark and expanding the playoffs, if the Big South and GWFC each get 6 teams then what can the NCAA do? I think you might have to have some sort of play-in. Now, how that works scheduling wise is another issue...

[GannonFan]

Tell that to Cal-Poly. :nonono2:

Cal-Poly was done in by the majority of the Great West being too new to IAA (no respect and a mis-illusion that these were glorified DII schools) - that probably won't happen again as the league will be better known and the obvious quality of the league is seen - dealing with transitional schools, as a vast majority of the conference is, makes that a different case. The Big South is victim to too many people knowing the actual quality of the conference - ultimately, that's harder to change.

[GannonFan]

No, because March Madness doesn't discount anyone before figuring the percentage.

Sure it does, how many mid majors get at large bids? It's gotten better in the past few years but you're still looking at 1-3 mid majors getting at large bids, while the BCS conferences are getting 7th and 8th place teams in. You're putting too much value in the auto-bid when they are only half the bids.

[ccujacket]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs. xprost2x
That still doesn't amount to equal access. As long as there are autobids the playing field isn't level. The fact of the matter is this argument about I-AA's postseason system being fair is a lot of hot air.

[WMTribe90]

In the average year there is one possibly two teams that have a legit gripe after being excluded from the playoffs. Last year it was Cal Poly. Sorry, I don't believe CCU had the SOS last year to garner consideration. My problem is that if you expand to 24 teams you allow in the one or two deserving squads and six or seven that really aren't on the same level or at least didn't prove it via their SOS, etc. Personally, I think 16 is the perfect number under the current landscape in I-AA and 15 or 16 games is plenty long enough. If the Ivies and SU join the playoffs I;d probably change my mind. In the mean time, if you want in, upgrade your schedule and earn your way in as an at large. I think Albany and CCU have both done this with their 2005 schedules. If either goes 10-1 this year they should receive an at large (9-2 with some quality wins should put them squarely on the bubble).

Last thought, If the Big South had an auto bid last year it would have been at the expense of the fourth A-10 team (UD). Anybody believe CCU was better than UD or more deserving of a playoff spot??

[UAalum72]

Sure it does, how many mid majors get at large bids? It's gotten better in the past few years but you're still looking at 1-3 mid majors getting at large bids, while the BCS conferences are getting 7th and 8th place teams in. You're putting too much value in the auto-bid when they are only half the bids.
You said 16/75 and 65/330. That's not autobids, that's total number of bids available. Are you saying basketball should only have 12 autobids and the lesser conferences scrounge for at-large?

[WMTribe90]

That still doesn't amount to equal access. As long as there are autobids the playing field isn't level. The fact of the matter is this argument about I-AA's postseason system being fair is a lot of hot air.

See my above post. Would it have been fair for CCU to receive an autobid last year at the expense of UD given the comparitive SOS of the two teams (assuming for the moment the Big South had six tema to qualify for an autobid). The fact is that every team that received an auto bid last year, including Hampton, was better than CCU and played a better schedule. I fail to see the injustice here.

This is not like the BCS. Colgate playing for an NC in 2003 would be the BCS equivalent of Boise State playing USC for the IA Bowl Championship. Our system may not be perfect, but its far better and more fair than the BCS and IA.

You can still earn it in I-AA, but it won't be handed to you on a silver platter either. It comes down to scheduling and Ws.

[ccujacket]

The fact is that every team that received an auto bid last year, including Hampton, was better than CCU and played a better schedule. I fail to see the injustice here.

There are automatic bids that only a select group of teams have access to. No one's arguing we deserved an at-large bid last year. But, we do deserve to have the same opportunities as every other team.

[OL FU]

There are automatic bids that only a select group of teams have access to. No one's arguing we deserved an at-large bid last year. But, we do deserve to have the same opportunities as every other team.

I seem to remember an 8-3 SoCon team from a few years agot that did not get in. They were from one of the blessed conferences. The discussion here is about 16 vs 24, not whether it is perfect. Why do you think you do not have the opportunity?

[bluehenbillk]

First of all, you can tell a hoops guy wrote the article because he used the term RPI, which doesn't exist in clooege football.

Second of all, the first thing you need to do to have an argument is to meet the qualifications of being eligible for the playoffs before you complain, which is get more than 5 teams.

Third of all, play somebody.

Fourth of all, when you host JMU this year try to keep the game competitive.

Other posters have said it already but however many teams the playoffs allows, some teams will whine about getting left out. The Big South hasn't done anything meritorious other than open their big mouths to gain entrance.

Show me on the field.

[WMTribe90]

There are automatic bids that only a select group of teams have access to. No one's arguing we deserved an at-large bid last year. But, we do deserve to have the same opportunities as every other team.

Okay, of the auto bid teams from last year, which one was less deserving of a playoff spot compared to CCU. Nine times out of ten an auto bid team mkes the playoffs regardless. Occassionally a MEAC school might not have made it except for the auto bid and there is the occassional fluke where a 7-4 team wins the BSC or SL. Overall, auto bid or not the teams have played their way in based on their performance on the filed. Something a mid major or CCU has yet to do IMO.

[rokamortis]

First of all, you can tell a hoops guy wrote the article because he used the term RPI, which doesn't exist in clooege football.

Second of all, the first thing you need to do to have an argument is to meet the qualifications of being eligible for the playoffs before you complain, which is get more than 5 teams.

Third of all, play somebody.

Fourth of all, when you host JMU this year try to keep the game competitive.

Other posters have said it already but however many teams the playoffs allows, some teams will whine about getting left out. The Big South hasn't done anything meritorious other than open their big mouths to gain entrance.

Show me on the field.


Although I wouldn't be as blunt as you - I agree 100%.

[SoCon48]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs. xprost2x


OUCH! :eek: :eek:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs.

Let's see:

* CCU plays #1 JMU at home this year
* they play at #22 SC State
* they play a tough SoCon foe, App St., on the road
* they play 10 D-I schools

Retro, what more do you want them to do? If they go 10-1 with this schedule, they deserve an at-large bid. Period. The Big South autobid doesn't matter. If a team is good, they play 10 D-I schools and with this schedule go 10-1, they are going to the dance.

The Big South doesn't deserve an autobid until they "get up to code" and get a 6th team. Then they can think about it. But that doesn't mean that a Big South team will never make the playoffs. CCU is doing everything it can to qualify, are going about it the right way, and (should they elect to stay) will be one heck of an ambassador for the Big South.

[bluehenbillk]

I agree, go 10-1 & you have my support.

[OL FU]

Depending on how other teams around the country fare, who CCU beats and how the teams they beat fare, I would say 9-2 should do it. Example, Beat either SC State, ASU or JMU. The team they beat only loses to one or two other I-AA's. Play the other two close, but lose. I think a real strong case could be made to get in the playoffs.

[GannonFan]

Nah, 10-1 is a virtual lock on making the playoffs for CCU - you go 9-2, losing 2 of the 3 "good" game on the schedule and you're back to being compared to teams with vastly better schedules. Too much chance at 9-2 to feel comfortable with that - 10-1 and the season won't be done, 9-2's going to make you feel blue (I like ryhming).

[OL FU]

Nah, 10-1 is a virtual lock on making the playoffs for CCU - you go 9-2, losing 2 of the 3 "good" game on the schedule and you're back to being compared to teams with vastly better schedules. Too much chance at 9-2 to feel comfortable with that - 10-1 and the season won't be done, 9-2's going to make you feel blue (I like ryhming).

You might be right(ryhming continued). But CCU would then have something to complain about. Change things for Furman last year. After beating GSU last year, they lose to Wofford. Furman is now 8-3 and they beat only one really good team. Do they get in the playoffs with an at-large. More than likely. Now I guess you could argue that their schedule was still tougher than Coastal Carolina's with FU barely losing to Pitt and ASU, but it is still only one good win. We would get in on reputation more than record. 9-2 and a win over on of the three, SC State, ASU and JMU, and the others a close lose, CCU would have a legitimate argument and this board would no longer be tolerable. :)

[Retro]

Retro, what more do you want them to do? If they go 10-1 with this schedule, they deserve an at-large bid. Period. The Big South autobid doesn't matter. If a team is good, they play 10 D-I schools and with this schedule go 10-1, they are going to the dance.

Your saying exactly what i was saying! :rolleyes:

Hey, If they go 10-1 with that schedule, then they deserve a spot.. I didn't say anything about this year's schedule.. I just said they have to earn it.. They have the opportunity to do that this season unlike the weak OOC schedule last ytear..

[SoCon48]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation]Let's see:

* CCU plays #1 JMU at home this year
* they play at #22 SC State
* they play a tough SoCon foe, App St., on the road
* they play 10 D-I schools

Retro, what more do you want them to do? If they go 10-1 with this schedule, they deserve an at-large bid. Period. The Big South autobid doesn't matter. If a team is good, they play 10 D-I schools and with this schedule go 10-1, they are going to the dance.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

If ASU suks as badly as some fear this year, beating App won't prove crap (rhyme).
Beating SC State is not a huge accomplishment, but definitely a minimum requirement to make the play-off and will good (but not great) on CCU's resume.
Beating JMU (even if JMU doesn't rank in the top 5 or so by season's end , would be a landmark victory for Coastal. Can't knock a new program beating the reigning NC.

[eaglesrthe1]

ccujacket, If you want to get in the playoffs, then do it the old fashion way and EARN IT! Play and win some tough OOC games in addition to winning your conference.. Do that and it will be hard for the selection committee to bypass your selection in the playoffs. xprost2x


:nod: :nod:

GSU's first six trips to the playoffs was as an indie. You don't need an auto-bid. Just schedule the tuff ones, and kick some butt! 10-1 this year will do it for sure. 9-2 and you've got a shot!

[Catmendue2]

:(
That still doesn't amount to equal access. As long as there are autobids the playing field isn't level. The fact of the matter is this argument about I-AA's postseason system being fair is a lot of hot air.



Preach Bro Preach, you aint never lied. :nod:

[Catmendue2]

In the average year there is one possibly two teams that have a legit gripe after being excluded from the playoffs. Last year it was Cal Poly. Sorry, I don't believe CCU had the SOS last year to garner consideration. My problem is that if you expand to 24 teams you allow in the one or two deserving squads and six or seven that really aren't on the same level or at least didn't prove it via their SOS, etc. Personally, I think 16 is the perfect number under the current landscape in I-AA and 15 or 16 games is plenty long enough. If the Ivies and SU join the playoffs I;d probably change my mind. In the mean time, if you want in, upgrade your schedule and earn your way in as an at large. I think Albany and CCU have both done this with their 2005 schedules. If either goes 10-1 this year they should receive an at large (9-2 with some quality wins should put them squarely on the bubble).

Last thought, If the Big South had an auto bid last year it would have been at the expense of the fourth A-10 team (UD). Anybody believe CCU was better than UD or more deserving of a playoff spot??

Its not fair for the A10 to get 4 of 16 bids period. :rolleyes:


IMHO, No conference is entitle to 25 percent of the total bids available. :(

[OL FU]

Its not fair for the A10 to get 4 of 16 bids period. :rolleyes:

The A-10 guys don't need me coming to their defense, but considering all four teams made it past the first round, explain your statement.

[WMTribe90]

Its not fair for the A10 to get 4 of 16 bids period.

Really? Which first round winner would you have left out? :D

Fair? Would it be fair to exclude a UD team that played several ranked I-AA teams and Navy in favor of a CCU team that didn't play a IA or a single ranked opponent and lost to a DII team?

[OL FU]

Really? Which first round winner would you have left out? :D

Fair? Would it be fair to exclude a UD team that played several ranked I-AA teams and Navy in favor of a CCU team that didn't play a IA or a single ranked opponent and lost to a DII team?

See, I knew you guys would come running :)

[Catmendue2]

Really? Which first round winner would you have left out? :D

Fair? Would it be fair to exclude a UD team that played several ranked I-AA teams and Navy in favor of a CCU team that didn't play a IA or a single ranked opponent and lost to a DII team?



I am not speaking on behalf of CCU thats a valid point, maybe. But there were other teams left out that should have made the playoffs, and South Carolina State was just one of several in my opinion. :mad:

[OL FU]

I am not speaking on behalf of CCU thats a valid point, maybe. But there were other teams left out that should have made the playoffs, and South Carolina State was just one of several in my opinion. :mad:

That might be true, but considering the A-10 won every first round game including W&M against Hampton, I think it is hard to argue that any of the four teams should have been left out.

[GannonFan]

Its not fair for the A10 to get 4 of 16 bids period. :rolleyes:


IMHO, No conference is entitle to 25 percent of the total bids available. :(

The A10 was only "entitled" to one spot - the rest came via earning it on the field - tough schedules, good wins, and very respectable losses, which were fairly few anyway. I'd wager that the 3 at large A10 teams weren't even the last or next to last teams to get into the tourney as their resume of work was pretty good last year. Besides, the A10 is a pretty big league (biggest or 2nd biggest in all of IAA?) - are you going to penalize the league for having so many good teams? Maybe the A10 should ask for an autobid each for the winner of the North and the winner of the South then since the conference is double the size it would need to be to qualify for an autobid. Personally, I like just the one autobid and having the other teams earn their way in.

[89Hen]

There are automatic bids that only a select group of teams have access to.

Hofstra Pride
Massachusetts Minutemen
New Hampshire Wildcats
Maine Black Bears
Northeastern Huskies
Rhode Island Rams
Delaware Blue Hens
James Madison Dukes
Towson Tigers
Villanova Wildcats
William & Mary Tribe
Richmond Spiders
Montana Grizzlies
Eastern Washington Eagles
Portland State Vikings
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Montana State Bobcats
Weber State Wildcats
Idaho State Bengals
Sacramento State Hornets
Northern Iowa Panthers
Western Kentucky Hilltoppers
Western Illinois
Youngstown State Penguins
Missouri State Bears
Indiana State
Illinois State Redbirds
Southern Illinois Salukis
Florida A&M Rattlers
South Carolina State Bulldogs
North Carolina A&T Aggies
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
Hampton Pirates
Howard Bison
Norfolk State Spartans
Delaware State Hornets
Morgan State Bears
Tennessee State Tigers
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Murray State Racers
Samford Bulldogs
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
Eastern Illinois Panthers
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
Lehigh Mountain Hawks
Colgate Red Raiders
Georgetown Hoyas
Holy Cross Crusaders
Bucknell Bison
Lafayette Leopards
Fordham Rams
Georgia Southern Eagles
Appalachian State Mountaineers
Elon Phoenix
Furman Paladins
Wofford Terriers
Chattanooga Mocs
Citadel Bulldogs
Western Carolina Catamounts
McNeese State Cowboys
Texas State Bobcats
Northwestern State Demons
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
Sam Houston State Bearkats
Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
Nicholls State Colonels

Yeah, I guess that is pretty exclusionary.

[Catmendue2]

Really? Which first round winner would you have left out? :D

Fair? Would it be fair to exclude a UD team that played several ranked I-AA teams and Navy in favor of a CCU team that didn't play a IA or a single ranked opponent and lost to a DII team?


Yes it would have been fair to leave them out, 8 and 3 is never better than 9-2, especially when the competition is the same. :cool:

[89Hen]

especially when the competition is the same. :cool:
:confused:

[Retro]

Yes it would have been fair to leave them out, 8 and 3 is never better than 9-2, especially when the competition is the same.

Competition the same??????? Are you serious? Look at their schedules and results from 2004. :eek:

[Catmendue2]

That might be true, but considering the A-10 won every first round game including W&M against Hampton, I think it is hard to argue that any of the four teams should have been left out.


If you truly believe that, then there will never be a True 1AA Champion. How many conferences are there in 1AA(i know, but i want to hear it from you)? Now, explain how two conferences should get 7 of 16 playoffs spots and 2 other conferences gets four and the rest of the nation should have five totally, and its fair. :nod: I have been bamboozled long enough, get real PLEASE!

[Catmendue2]

Competition the same??????? Are you serious? Look at their schedules and results from 2004. :eek:


So are you saying Hampton and Wofford aren't 1AA elite teams? :cool:

[dbackjon]

If you truly believe that, then there will never be a True 1AA Champion. How many conferences are there in 1AA(i know, but i want to hear it from you)? Now, explain how two conferences should get 7 of 16 playoffs spots and 2 other conferences gets four and the rest of the nation should have five totally, and its fair. :nod: I have been bamboozled long enough, get real PLEASE!

Would you be happier if there were NO auto-bids? Everyone was judged on performance (i.e. strength of schedule, etc)???

I would wager that a no-auto bid playoff would mirror last year's field.....

[89Hen]

So are you saying Hampton and Wofford aren't 1AA elite teams? :cool:

WTF? Loss and loss. Next.

[New CCU Fan]

I'm new to Div 1-AA period...but my question is simple. If I read a previous post correctly (and I have not researched this on my own yet), is it a true statement that the auto-bid teams are the ones that select the 8 at large bids?

If so, then THAT in itself is a major issue that I would think should be addressed. That would be akin to saying "I don't want to play that team, I'll vote for this one!"

Did I have that understanding right?

[dbackjon]

I'm new to Div 1-AA period...but my question is simple. If I read a previous post correctly (and I have not researched this on my own yet), is it a true statement that the auto-bid teams are the ones that select the 8 at large bids?

If so, then THAT in itself is a major issue that I would think should be addressed. That would be akin to saying "I don't want to play that team, I'll vote for this one!"

Did I have that understanding right?

No - there is a selection committee which has members from both auto-bid and non auto-bid conferences.

[Catmendue2]

:p
Would you be happier if there were NO auto-bids? Everyone was judged on performance (i.e. strength of schedule, etc)???

I would wager that a no-auto bid playoff would mirror last year's field.....


No, I wish the 1AA would reclassify it self, give every sanctioned 1AA conference a slot and/or go to 32 teams as the Big South has requested. Then, I would wish, that every conference champ get an automatic-bid(be he Church school, 2AA or what have you). At that point everybody plays and the cream will still rises to the top. What we have now, is a 5 to 7 conference controlled playoff, no matter how you look at it. National champs don't mean rise in the A :p North and set in the B :p south, UDayton, and every thing west justs wants to be included that all. Now, that would be fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Catmendue2]

WTF? Loss and loss. Next.


And you Played WESTCHESTER, AND? YOU:confused:

[Catmendue2]

Except to teams that play a tough schedule and still win.
Final 2004 Regular Season Gridiron Power Index (GPI)
http://www.i-aa.org/articles/artfiles/63975_detail.txt

Conference Rank
Rank, Conference (Average Rating)
1. A10 - Atlantic 10 Conference (20.06)
*2. GWFC - Great West Football Conference (30.69)
3. SLC - Southland Conference (31.78)
4. GFC - Gateway Football Conference (33.92)
5. BSC - Big Sky Conference (35.76)
*6. IVY - Ivy League (36.78)
7. SOCON - Southern Conference (37.03)
8. PL - Patriot League (42.41
9. OVC - Ohio Valley Conference (51.97)
10. MEAC - Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (59.28)
*11. BSOUTH - Big South Conference (60.24)
*12. INDEP - Independent (63.78)
*13. SWAC - Southwestern Athletic Conference (65.42)
*14. NEC - Northeast Conference (70.29)
*15. PFL - Pioneer Football League (73.67)
*16. MAAC - Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (80.95)
* Not qualified/no autobid.

Looks like the autobids are correctly placed at this point.


IF YOU DON'T WIN YOUR CONFERENCE, IN ANY AND ALL SPORTS(PRO, HS AND OTHER COLLEGE SPORTS). YOU ARE NOT A CHAMPION PERIOD.

[dbackjon]

:p


No, I wish the 1AA would reclassify it self, give every sanctioned 1AA conference a slot and/or go to 32 teams as the Big South has requested. Then, I would wish, that every conference champ get an automatic-bid(be he Church school, 2AA or what have you). At that point everybody plays and the cream will still rises to the top. What we have now, is a 5 to 7 conference controlled playoff, no matter how you look at it. National champs don't mean rise in the A :p North and set in the B :p south, UDayton, and every thing west justs wants to be included that all. Now, that would be fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So then Northern Arizona should join a conference with a bunch of non-scholarship programs, and get an auto-bid EVERY year...... :rolleyes:

[Catmendue2]

Really? For example, tell me the last MLB champ that won their conference/league/division? Boston didn't, Florida didn't, Anaheim didn't...


The point is, is that they at least got the chance/right to represent the conference they play out of. That aint got nothing to do with, who got the rings. :o :cool:

[Catmendue2]

So then Northern Arizona should join a conference with a bunch of non-scholarship programs, and get an auto-bid EVERY year...... :rolleyes:


Who says that a non Scholarship program can't compete, if given the chance. :o


Being smart or rich shouldn't exclude or preclude anyone.
:eek:

[Catmendue2]

But not playing top competition will always exclude them. The GPI measures all that and low equivalency/non-schollie teams do not fare well. It is not the end all, be all, but it is a good indicator. BTW, all I-AA schools who are eligible qualify for playoff bids.


Its still better when you know you're going to the playoffs and that you are going to be number 32 and got face Number 1, everyyear, you get better. Its makes it better when everybody plays, its inclusive and a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, YOU NEED TO WIN A REGIONAL, BEFORE YOU WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. What happens when the final4 teams all come from the same conference and region, and it will happen judging the way things are going now. Make the playoffs a venue for, conference champions and an atlarge guest, as it should be. Not majority guests. :(

[blukeys]

So then Northern Arizona should join a conference with a bunch of non-scholarship programs, and get an auto-bid EVERY year...... :rolleyes:

Delaware's application for the MAAC and NEC is right around the corner. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[IaaScribe]

Interesting discussion.

The Big South schools, save for Charleston Southern, have all ramped up their schedules.

Liberty is playing Connecticut, William & Mary, Youngstown State and Chattanooga OOC.

Coastal has JMU, Appy State, S.C. State and Elon

G-W has Furman, Hampton and Wofford

VMI has W&M, Duke, Lehigh, Wofford and Richmond.

But as VMI coach Cal McCombs said, it won't mean anything if the Big South teams can't WIN a few of these games.

[Mr. C]

No - there is a selection committee which has members from both auto-bid and non auto-bid conferences.
Last year's committee consisted of members solely from the eight conferences that received auto bids, though I was told that there will be representation from non-auto bid conferences on the committee this fall.

[Mr. C]

Yes it would have been fair to leave them out, 8 and 3 is never better than 9-2, especially when the competition is the same. :cool:
Do you realize that there have been numerous 8-3 teams that have advanced to the semifinals, the finals and even won the whole stinking championship in I-AA? An 8-3 that plays in a tough conference and plays a competitive non-conference schedule should be taken every time over a 9-2, or 10-1 squad that plays weaker I-AAs and Division II schools. There might be one or two teams with legitimate arguments that they deserve to be in the playoffs, but that is about all. In most years, you wouldn't find teams from the SWAC, the MAAC, the NEC or the PFL having a prayer against the teams from the eight-auto bid conferences. The Great West champ would have competed fine last year (and they played several Big Sky schools to prove it) and the Ivy League champ would probably have made an impact (Harvard was one of the top-10 teams in the country last year in my opinion), but that's about it. Do you really think a 10-1 Coastal Carolina squad deserved to be among the 16-team field when they lost a game to a middling D-II school (Newberry) and had one of the weakest strengths of schedules in I-AA last season (wins over North Greenville, Charleston W.V., Savannah State, VMI, Davidson and Jacksonville accounted for six of their 10 wins)?

[rokamortis]

He already said that he wasn't taking up for CCU - just would like change in general.

[Mr. C]

He already said that he wasn't taking up for CCU - just would like change in general.
But Coastal was used as an example of a team that should have gotten in ahead of three at-large A-10 squads (or at least 8-3 defending national champ Delaware). The whole genesis of this thread deals with what the Big South needs to do to get an auto-bid, or get in as an at-large.

[rokamortis]

But as VMI coach Cal McCombs said, it won't mean anything if the Big South teams can't WIN a few of these games.

He's a wise man.

[IaaScribe]

Exactly, Mr. C. And Kallander comes off as somewhat of a dolt for using Coastal as his poster child for a scorned Big South team. No other coach in the league thought Coastal deserved a bid. Nor did anyone across the country. Even at 11-0, Coastal didn't deserve a bid. No way.

[rokamortis]

I said it before and I'll repeat - this whole thing is a joke. Kallander needs to work on expanding the BSC and worry about the playoffs later.

[Mr. C]

Kyle is going to have to say certain things to certain media and Big South folks to potray the conference in a particular light. If you talk to him one-on-one, he doesn't really belive that CCU deserved to be in last year. That's why the conference is putting some emphasis on its schools to strengthen thei schedules this year.

[IaaScribe]

Kyle is going to have to say certain things to certain media and Big South folks to potray the conference in a particular light. If you talk to him one-on-one, he doesn't really belive that CCU deserved to be in last year. That's why the conference is putting some emphasis on its schools to strengthen thei schedules this year.

No doubt. And he did tell me when I talked to him away from everyone that the non-conference schedule is actually much more important right now to BSC football teams than the in-conference schedule. So I think he knows the score, but it just gets portrayed a certain way in certain media outlets.

I'm no expert, either, considering I've covered the league for all of three weeks now. ;)

Ralph, I work for a newspaper in central Virginia. You should be able to connect the dots from there.

[rokamortis]

No doubt. And he did tell me when I talked to him away from everyone that the non-conference schedule is actually much more important right now to BSC football teams than the in-conference schedule. So I think he knows the score, but it just gets portrayed a certain way in certain media outlets.

But that is only a short term solution - we need to start beating some of these OOC teams to earn respectability and then things should fall into place. There is really no reason that your conference schedule should be the weakest part of the schedule. I understand that the BSC is young, but something needs to change. hopefully the BSC teams can start to earn a little respect this year.

[IaaScribe]

VMI should be a much better team than last year, provided it doesn't have to use four quarterbacks. So that will help. G-Webb will be decent. So will Coastal and Liberty. Only CSU looks like a very weak I-AA at this point, but it will pile up a nice record against the awful OOC schedule.

[Catmendue2]

He already said that he wasn't taking up for CCU - just would like change in general.


They don't want to see that part. Rich support the rich and complain everybody else is inferior. GPI will always be their excuse. Instead of having a true playoff. Div 2 has the only true playoff system in the NCAA. :o

[rokamortis]

that acronym is already taken.
Not by me

[rokamortis]

Not smack really - just saying the BSC to me is the Big South. In the context I used it there shouldn't have been any confusion - but I'll try to be mindful of this in future posts.

[Catmendue2]

Please provide a reasoned opinion. I did and this is your response, "rich support the rich"? This is not a conspiracy...




Ralph, I gave you a whole page of reasons and opinions and you answered by giving me the same cover story. The six conferences that made the playoffs don't run the 1AA the NCAA does. you r :deadhorse the soap factory is over there----------------------> headed :o for a dead end.

[rokamortis]

There are only 15 I-AA Conferences. Acronyms shouldn't overlap is all I am saying. Seems at times some folks are being a bit homerish... not just CCU fans. Ever see the Georgia Southern fans claim GSU as their's despite Grambling being around much longer. Maybe its silly but maybe not... :confused:

i'm glad Colorado Christian University doesn't play I-AA :D

[Catmendue2]

Okay whomever you are. If I can't present reasoned opinions and expect reasoned responses, l8r.



You get what you give and later to you TOO. I cant reasoned an opinion but I can give you a reasonable response and I did. :rolleyes: