JMU Stadium Expansion

[JMU_Fan_2007]

According to an article in the Harrisonburg Daily News-Record, JMU has requested $40 million in funds from the state government to expand the football stadium. The online article (www.dnronline.comnews_details.php?AID=9733&CHID=1)does not mention the number, but the print article specifies the $40 million allocation.

The plan would call for construction to be complete by 2014.

Can't wait for more details! Looking forward to the improvements at Bridgeforth.

[FlyYtown]

Start small, you don't need 30,000 seats...
Get 22,500 to 25,000 seats....

Don't drink that Kool Aide for a MAJOR EXPANSION...

[Tribe4SF]

That's just JMU's 6-year wish list. I can tell you now there's no way the legislature gives $40 mil for a new stadium. Start raising money privately if you really want a new stadium. Then the state gives you permission to spend it.

[JMU2004]

That's just JMU's 6-year wish list. I can tell you now there's no way the legislature gives $40 mil for a new stadium. Start raising money privately if you really want a new stadium. Then the state gives you permission to spend it.


They already gave us 10,000,000 last year, which we have not yet used....

JMU has gained A LOT of favor with the State by growing to accomodate the increase in Va. students. VT, UVA, and W&M told the state to shove it when asked to do the same. I would not be surprised to see JMU get pretty much whatever it asks for......

[FlyYtown]

JMU has gained A LOT of favor with the State by growing to accomodate the increase in Va. students. VT, UVA, and W&M told the state to shove it when asked to do the same. I would not be surprised to see JMU get pretty much whatever it asks for......

First off, it would be pretty damn unprofessional for 3 high quality universities to tell their main source of funding to SHOVE IT.

Secondly, you can say you can get what you want; but you won't... In this day and age, tax dollars won't be thrown away for a major expansion for a I-AA school's stadium. You will get your allotted share of monies and that will be it.

$40,000,000 seems like a big DREAM to me.
xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[appfan2008]

I agree about the 40 mil being a dream...

and as much as i love seeing the fcs brand expanding all the time... how much stadium expansion is necessary at jmu? are you talking 5 or 10 thousand seats? do you need that? i mean are there waiting lists and such or is this a if you build it they will come sort of case

[GGASU]

According to an article in the Harrisonburg Daily News-Record, JMU has requested $40 million in funds from the state government to expand the football stadium. The online article (www.dnronline.comnews_details.php?AID=9733&CHID=1)does not mention the number, but the print article specifies the $40 million allocation.

The plan would call for construction to be complete by 2014.

Can't wait for more details! Looking forward to the improvements at Bridgeforth.


There has to be a move to FBS in the works for that kind of money to be spent.

[Mountaineer#96]

Anyone can ask for $4o mill, getting paid is a whole other thing. I put in request for $40 mill with my congressman every week, but I still haven't seen a dime xnodx .

[JMUFortier]

They already gave us 10,000,000 last year, which we have not yet used....

JMU has gained A LOT of favor with the State by growing to accomodate the increase in Va. students. VT, UVA, and W&M told the state to shove it when asked to do the same. I would not be surprised to see JMU get pretty much whatever it asks for......

JMU grew in the 1990's when the state asked it to and when the school asked for projects on its wish list then, the state told JMU to go away. It only was 2002 with a governor and legislature friendly to higher education made a bond to get JMU its projects it wanted. It is no sure bet, especially for the stadium.

[rufus]

There has to be a move to FBS in the works for that kind of money to be spent.
JMU's administration has made it pretty clear that they would like to move to FBS, should a spot in a viable conference become available. The plan has always been to build an FBS-quality stadium and then wait for a conference shake up.

The stadium expansion is just one part of a $150 million athletic facilities enhancement campaign. Also in the works are a new 10k+ seat basketball arena, a new baseball stadium, and an indoor practice facility. Most of the money will have to be raised privately. Also from what I've heard, that $40 million figure for the stadium will actually take us a little beyond 30k seats. The stadium will also be expandable to 50k, should the need ever arise.

[JMU2004]

First off, it would be pretty damn unprofessional for 3 high quality universities to tell their main source of funding to SHOVE IT.

Secondly, you can say you can get what you want; but you won't... In this day and age, tax dollars won't be thrown away for a major expansion for a I-AA school's stadium. You will get your allotted share of monies and that will be it.

$40,000,000 seems like a big DREAM to me.
xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx


I would do some research before making comments about these things...VT, UVa, and W&M are all attempting to become semi-private so that the state can't force them into anything. This movement was started when the state realized that there were not enough spots for upcoming college bound Va. residents and ASKED universitities to grow. Vt, UVa, and W&M said no. JMU has more than DOUBLED in size over the last 20 years, and will add yet another 3000 students by 2015.

I am not saying that we will get 40 million for the stadium, but the state knows who is doing the heavy lifting to accomodate the need. In 2002, we got the bulk of the funding we requested, and I am willing to bet that this trend will continue.

[GannonFan]

JMU's administration has made it pretty clear that they would like to move to FBS, should a spot in a viable conference become available. The plan has always been to build an FBS-quality stadium and then wait for a conference shake up.

The stadium expansion is just one part of a $150 million athletic facilities enhancement campaign. Also in the works are a new 10k+ seat basketball arena, a new baseball stadium, and an indoor practice facility. Most of the money will have to be raised privately. Also from what I've heard, that $40 million figure for the stadium will actually take us a little beyond 30k seats. The stadium will also be expandable to 50k, should the need ever arise.

Wow, do they plan on firing Keener before they do that? xlolx

[rufus]

Wow, do they plan on firing Keener before they do that? xlolx
Let's hope so. xsmhx

[JMU2004]

Wow, do they plan on firing Keener before they do that? xlolx


xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xlolx

[FlyYtown]

The last thing James Madison needs is a 10,000 seat Basketball arena.
Why?
Pretty much no-one goes to your games today and because your mens team flat out sucks; your women are really good and all, but 10,000 people won't show up for them.

[mcveyrl]

Wow, do they plan on firing Keener before they do that? xlolx

No joke! We'd do just as well to let the Grad Assistant coach and use Keener's salaray elsewhere!

[mcveyrl]

The last thing James Madison needs is a 10,000 seat Basketball arena.
Why?
Pretty much no-one goes to your games today and because your mens team flat out sucks; your women are really good and all, but 10,000 people won't show up for them.


Agreed.

[MplsBison]

The last thing James Madison needs is a 10,000 seat Basketball arena.

Pretty much no-one goes to your games today and because your mens team flat out sucks; your women are really good and all, but 10,000 people won't show up for them.

Build it and they will come.




No seriously. The first step in turning a program around is attracting a coach that can bring in good players.

Top coaches won't come unless they know that an investment in the program is being made.

[MplsBison]

Vt, UVa, and W&M said no. JMU has more than DOUBLED in size over the last 20 years, and will add yet another 3000 students by 2015.


What did Christopher Newport, George Mason, Longwood, Mary Washington, Norfolk State, Old Dominion, Radford, Virginia Commonwealth, Virginia State, and Virginia Military Institute say?

[rufus]

So yeah, we've been going through a pretty rough patch in the basketball department. Actually, that's a huge understatement. Never in NCAA history has any program fallen so far so fast. Still you should keep in mind that things haven't always been this way at JMU. Until recently, JMU was consistently at or near the top of the CAA in terms of attendance and performance. We have a strong basketball history, and I am confident that we will eventually work our way back to the top of the CAA.

In order to get there, we're going to need to take some drastic steps. Building the best arena in the CAA makes a strong statement that we're committed to rebuilding. The facility is being designed by the same architects that designed ODU's Ted Constant Center. I'm told that the plan is similar, but slightly larger than the Ted.

http://constantcenter.com/photos/?album=3

[mcveyrl]

So yeah, we've been going through a pretty rough patch in the basketball department. Actually, that's a huge understatement. Never in NCAA history has any program fallen so far so fast. Still you should keep in mind that things haven't always been this way at JMU. Until recently, JMU was consistently at or near the top of the CAA in terms of attendance and performance. We have a strong basketball history, and I am confident that we will eventually work our way back to the top of the CAA.

In order to get there, we're going to need to take some drastic steps. Building the best arena in the CAA makes a strong statement that we're committed to rebuilding. The facility is being designed by the same architects that designed ODU's Ted Constant Center. I'm told that the plan is similar, but slightly larger than the Ted.

http://constantcenter.com/photos/?album=3


While I still don't know how great an idea it is to build the facility, I will have to say that the Ted is amazing and I'd be happy to have it on campus.

[JMU2004]

What did Christopher Newport, George Mason, Longwood, Mary Washington, Norfolk State, Old Dominion, Radford, Virginia Commonwealth, Virginia State, and Virginia Military Institute say?


CNU is growng
UMW is stagnant
NSU is an HBCU that may or may not be affected
ODU is growing
Radford is growing
VCU and GMU are growing, but not too much. Both are already 25,000+ commuter schools
VSU is another HBCU
VMI is only 1100 students, and will not be growing.

Keep in mind that VT, UVa, W&M, and JMU are by far the most popular schools in Virginia. JMU alone received 21,000 applications for a class of around 4000

[rufus]

What did Christopher Newport, George Mason, Longwood, Mary Washington, Norfolk State, Old Dominion, Radford, Virginia Commonwealth, Virginia State, and Virginia Military Institute say?
The state can't force schools to grow if nobody wants to attend. :)

In all seriousness, JMU and George Mason absorbed the bulk of the growing student population. JMU is uniquely positioned for growth due to its ever-growing number of applicants (over 21,000 for the current year). In the past 20 years JMU has more than doubled its enrollment, while maintaining its academic standards. If Radford, Longwood, etc attempted to double in size, they would have to slash their standards to do so.

[appfan2008]

JMU's administration has made it pretty clear that they would like to move to FBS, should a spot in a viable conference become available. The plan has always been to build an FBS-quality stadium and then wait for a conference shake up.

The stadium expansion is just one part of a $150 million athletic facilities enhancement campaign. Also in the works are a new 10k+ seat basketball arena, a new baseball stadium, and an indoor practice facility. Most of the money will have to be raised privately. Also from what I've heard, that $40 million figure for the stadium will actually take us a little beyond 30k seats. The stadium will also be expandable to 50k, should the need ever arise.
50 thousand??? are you serious... that is a little insane especially because it is more than double!

[rufus]

50 thousand??? are you serious... that is a little insane especially because it is more than double!
It will probably never be needed, but if you're rebuilding a stadium from the ground up you should probably allow for future expansion. I see nothing unreasonable about leaving room for future growth, even if we'll probably never need it.

[appfan2008]

It will probably never be needed, but if you're rebuilding a stadium from the ground up you should probably allow for future expansion. I see nothing unreasonable about leaving room for future growth, even if we'll probably never need it.
ok i mean i understand that i just guess i was making sure that wasnt in the near future plans!

[rufus]

ok i mean i understand that i just guess i was making sure that wasnt in the near future plans!
There is absolutely no need to consider 50k in the near future (or probably ever). From what I can tell, the plan is to build a stadium that would meet the minimum standards of most FBS conferences, but could easily be expanded if necessary.

[th0m]

Great things are happening at JMU. They are preparing the construction-site for a $82 million Performing Arts Center, getting ready to build 2 more dorms, nearing completion of a new Chemistry buidling, and I think they started constructing the new ISAT-library. Not to mention the renovation and expansion of the local hospital to benefit the nursing program. I probably forgot a lot of projects...

[DTSpider]

VMI is private (at least I think they are), so they don't factor into this equation.

JMU getting $40 million of VA tax dollars for a new football stadium would be a stretch considering the number of teachers making $30k/year with 30 kids in the classrooms because there's not enough funding.

I'd love to see JMU build this new stadium, but raise your own money to do it. Now, if this is a loan to be covered by future increases in student fees than that's a different story and I'm all for it. You'll see in my other posts that I think JMU is FBS bound and I think that they can be success in that transition.

[rufus]

JMU will be using very little, if any, tax money to expand the stadium of improve other athletic facilities. Even though JMU has to raise their own money, the state of Virginia has to approve how we spend it. If the state provided tax dollars to a massive stadium expansion at JMU, they would have to do the same for every other school in the state that wants a larger stadium.

JMU will probably make the football stadium and basketball arena "multi-use" facilities, to obtain partial state funding. The university's ROTC offices are currently housed under one side of the stadium for this exact reason. Once the eixisting stadium is torn down (one side at a time), the new structure will probably include some academic facilities as well. By including academic space, JMU can obtain partial funding from the state. It's not a stadium, it's an academic building with seats on the roof! Even so, the vast majority of the money will be privately raised.

BTW - VMI isn't private, but is very small for a public school.

[appfan2008]

VMI is private (at least I think they are), so they don't factor into this equation.

JMU getting $40 million of VA tax dollars for a new football stadium would be a stretch considering the number of teachers making $30k/year with 30 kids in the classrooms because there's not enough funding.

I'd love to see JMU build this new stadium, but raise your own money to do it. Now, if this is a loan to be covered by future increases in student fees than that's a different story and I'm all for it. You'll see in my other posts that I think JMU is FBS bound and I think that they can be success in that transition.
I know asu's facility enhancement plan is all being privately funded

[DTSpider]

JMU will be using very little, if any, tax money to expand the stadium of improve other athletic facilities. Even though JMU has to raise their own money, the state of Virginia has to approve how we spend it. If the state provided tax dollars to a massive stadium expansion at JMU, they would have to do the same for every other school in the state that wants a larger stadium.

JMU will probably make the football stadium and basketball arena "multi-use" facilities, to obtain partial state funding. The university's ROTC offices are currently housed under one side of the stadium for this exact reason. Once the eixisting stadium is torn down (one side at a time), the new structure will probably include some academic facilities as well. By including academic space, JMU can obtain partial funding from the state. It's not a stadium, it's an academic building with seats on the roof! Even so, the vast majority of the money will be privately raised.

BTW - VMI isn't private, but is very small for a public school.

Sounds good to me. I see no reason why the state wouldn't approve it then. I say, get this thing build. Given the corruption & red-tape in the City of Richmond, I'd put this at even money to be finished before UR's new stadium xbawlingx

[appfan2008]

is the state also providing money to ur or is jmu the only one

[JMU_Fan_2007]

I agree about the 40 mil being a dream...

and as much as i love seeing the fcs brand expanding all the time... how much stadium expansion is necessary at jmu? are you talking 5 or 10 thousand seats? do you need that? i mean are there waiting lists and such or is this a if you build it they will come sort of case



In response to this, JMU averaged 15,113 people at the home games this year. Every game sold out. JMU has had temporary bleachers for a few season, and even with the temporary bleachers the attendance average was over 100%. Without including the temporary bleachers, this year JMU's average attendance was 112% stadium capacity. So yeah, there's definately waiting lists.

I don't think it's a big stretch to think JMU could sell 20,000 tickets on a regular basis, probably 22k or 23k if we ever got a home playoff game!!! And as some people have mentioned, JMU is busting at the seems and will not be slowing down any time soon. If we can establish a tradition of winning, it wouldn't surprise me to see JMU sell out a 25,000 seat stadium in 10 or 15 years, maybe more.

[Fresno St. Alum]

JMU deserves a bigger stadium. xthumbsupx

[th0m]

is the state also providing money to ur or is jmu the only one

Well Richmond is a private school, so I guess the answer is no. I don't know if private schools get zero state funds, but at least a whole lot less.

[DTSpider]

VA students get a $3k/year (at least it used to be that much about 5 years ago) grant from the state to attend in-state private colleges. UR deducts this amount from the tuition bill and then has to apply to the state for the funds. In theory, the state could reject these funds if UR did something illegal (an example being not complying with Title IX).

[appfan2008]

VA students get a $3k/year (at least it used to be that much about 5 years ago) grant from the state to attend in-state private colleges. UR deducts this amount from the tuition bill and then has to apply to the state for the funds. In theory, the state could reject these funds if UR did something illegal (an example being not complying with Title IX).
that is a pretty good deal for the in state students

[AppMan]

Someone has to go grab the bull by the horns in Virginia and run with the ball. JMU is growing like crazy and will be a 20,000-student university before long. As far as the rest of Virginia's FCS schools are concerned, Richmond is downsizing to a 9,000 seat on-campus stadium, W&M seems content with what they have, VMI is about where they will always be. Looks like ODU is getting ready to make a run and I think Hampton would like to, but I don't see any other school in Virginia willing to step up to the plate and make a commitment. Good for you JMU!! I look forward to being in the same conference one day.

[appfan2008]

Someone has to go grab the bull by the horns in Virginia and run with the ball. JMU is growing like crazy and will be a 20,000-student university before long. As far as the rest of Virginia's FCS schools are concerned, Richmond is downsizing to a 9,000 seat on-campus stadium, W&M seems content with what they have, VMI is about where they will always be. Looks like ODU is getting ready to make a run and I think Hampton would like to, but I don't see any other school in Virginia willing to step up to the plate and make a commitment. Good for you JMU!! I look forward to being in the same conference one day.
good points about its jmu's turn... anyone think they will still be fcs in say 10 years???

[JMU_Fan_2007]

good points about its jmu's turn... anyone think they will still be fcs in say 10 years???


10 years, probably. 20, probably not. JMU has made it clear they would like to pursue BCS football, but it seems they intend to hold out until a BCS conference has an opening. I don't think there's much interest in C-USA or like conferences. Think Big East in 20 years, not CUSA in 10.

[appfan2008]

interesting... but i just dont see a fcs making that jump anytime soon... IMO

[rokamortis]

10 years, probably. 20, probably not. JMU has made it clear they would like to pursue BCS football, but it seems they intend to hold out until a BCS conference has an opening. I don't think there's much interest in C-USA or like conferences. Think Big East in 20 years, not CUSA in 10.

I think the problem with that plan is that the Big East or similar conference would probably prefer an established FBS school from a lower conference or independant rather than a direct from FCS school.

You must move up anticipating openings, not wait around until there is an opening.

[rufus]

10 years, probably. 20, probably not. JMU has made it clear they would like to pursue BCS football, but it seems they intend to hold out until a BCS conference has an opening. I don't think there's much interest in C-USA or like conferences. Think Big East in 20 years, not CUSA in 10.
It's pretty unlikely that JMU will still be FCS in 10 years. Stadium expansion to a little over 30k should be complete in about 5 years. At that point, the donors who contributed money for expansion are going to be clammoring for a move. By planning an expansion on this scale, JMU's administration is making its intentions pretty clear. We aren't building a 30k seat stadium for FCS.

We also aren't going to wait around for the Big East to offer us a spot, because it's never going to happen straight out of FCS. If we prove ourselves in FBS and continue to grow as a university, maybe we'll be attractive to a BCS conference one day.

[*****]

interesting... but i just dont see a fcs making that jump anytime soon... IMOI agree. Appman and some JMU folks are FBS-stricken... they can't stand it as fans that their teams are FCS. They feel second-rate. They feel that their friends make fun of them. They feel that they are the butt of jokes. Their self-esteem to an extent depends on their team being soon-to-be FBS. As long as they can say they will be there shortly it makes them feel fulfilled. It puffs their chest. No matter that they will probably lose more money, be bottom rung, be a nobody... but hey, they'll be FBS! All their dreams will come true. Ah well, can't tell them anything, they are convinced. They ignore the facts, look past the trends, think they will be the exception. Dream baby dream... dreams may be all you have.

[appfan2008]

ralph you are right once again... there is nothing wrong with fcs except in front a few people who feel insufficient to their buddies and want to better than them... well guess what fcs is some pretty damn good football so deal with it

[rufus]

I agree. Appman and some JMU folks are FBS-stricken... they can't stand it as fans that their teams are FCS. They feel second-rate. They feel that their friends make fun of them. They feel that they are the butt of jokes. Their self-esteem to an extent depends on their team being soon-to-be FBS. As long as they can say they will be there shortly it makes them feel fulfilled. It puffs their chest.
I don't think an FCS JMU receives any less respect than most of the Sun Belt and other FBS bottom feeders. And I would definitely rather be contending for the FCS championship than making weekly appearances on ESPN's Bottom 10 in FBS. I'm personally only a proponent of moving to FBS if we do it the right way. That means not moving to the Sun Belt and having facilities in place before we make the move. The facilities are on the way, and I'm convinced that there will be some major conference shake up in the next ten years. I have to ask you Ralph, do you honestly believe that JMU's administration is planning expansion on this scale for FCS? Even if FBS is a pipe dream, it's not just a few fans that are dreaming. Our admin is obviously drinking the same kool-aid.


No matter that they will probably lose more money, be bottom rung, be a nobody... but hey, they'll be FBS! All their dreams will come true. Ah well, can't tell them anything, they are convinced. They ignore the facts, look past the trends, think they will be the exception. Dream baby dream... dreams may be all you have.
Also, I don't think that I or any other JMU poster claimed that we would be successful in FBS. The only person to make that claim here was a Richmond poster. I fully expect that we will go through a rocky transition period, just like most teams that have made the jump. The odds are that we'll probably be mediocore most years, and will make the occasional bowl appearance. I don't think that's wildly unrealistic. And maybe we'll lose a little more money, but with a $4.2 million football budget (the largest in FCS), I would say that we're not exactly containing costs right now.

[Saint3333]

Teams are starting to make plans to position themselves for a move to the BCS. I don't want ASU in the FCS is schools like JMU, GSU, YSU, Montana aren't also around.

Besides these boards wouldn't be nearly as much fun/interesting without these fan bases.

[appfan2008]

this is true as most of the posters seem to come from the upper schools like asu, gsu, jmu, ysu and montana that will all be moving up at some point more than likely... i wonder what will happen to this site then...

[Sir William]

We aren't building a 30k seat stadium for FCS.

I'm just wondering if JMU could actually fill 30K at home consistently.

JMU is a great FCS program, no doubt, but their fan base isn't like Marshall's or Boise State's or UConn's or even WKU's.

Is FBS really a smart move for JMU...now, in 10 yrs, or in 20? xthumbsdownx

FCS football is great for many reasons. Stay and enjoy it and continue to win with regularity. Move up, and become the Hokie's and Wahoo's whippin' boy. xnodx

[rufus]

I'm just wondering if JMU could actually fill 30K at home consistently.

JMU is a great FCS program, no doubt, but their fan base isn't like Marshall's or Boise State's or UConn's or even WKU's.
Now I agree with the Marshall and UConn statements, but I don't know about the other two. The last time WKU had higher average attendance than JMU was 1997, and that was only by a few hundred fans. Despite coming off a series of losing seasons, JMU even maintained higher attendance than WKU in their national championship season and the following year.

Boise State never averaged over 13,000 fans when they were in I-AA, and in fact they weren't even the most highly supported school in Idaho. Now I'm not saying that JMU will ever build the type of fan support that Boise enjoys today, but you have to compare apples to apples.

[AppMan]

I agree. Appman and some JMU folks are FBS-stricken... they can't stand it as fans that their teams are FCS. They feel second-rate. They feel that their friends make fun of them. They feel that they are the butt of jokes. Their self-esteem to an extent depends on their team being soon-to-be FBS. As long as they can say they will be there shortly it makes them feel fulfilled. It puffs their chest. No matter that they will probably lose more money, be bottom rung, be a nobody... but hey, they'll be FBS! All their dreams will come true. Ah well, can't tell them anything, they are convinced. They ignore the facts, look past the trends, think they will be the exception. Dream baby dream... dreams may be all you have.

That is about as big of a bunch of hogwash as has ever been posted on this board. ASU fans don't feel second rate in the least and we don't give a crap what anyone says about ASU. I realize it may be hard for your small mind to understand this, but it is all about playing at a higher level and playing schools that actually mean something to our fan base. We have 2 games (Furman & GSU) that get ASU folks excited. We have beat Western so many times all the hype has gone out of that game and neither Wofford, Elon, UTC, or The Citadel does anything for our folks. Now we have the exciting prospect of playing Samford. Whop-Dee-D#%$-Doo! Considering how hard you and your cronies pushed for the re-naming of 1-aa it is obvious to me you were the ones so concerned about the image of the programs and the division. Call it what you will. FCS or 1-aa, it is all the same. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's still a duck. You can call it a goose, but its still a duck.

FCS is getting to be a bigger joke with each passing year. Without a strength of schedule factor in selecting playoff teams a lot of name schools avoid playing top quality opponents and choose to schedule patsies in order to get to the 8 win mark to qualify for the playoffs. ASU can't get a decent game while the bottom feeders have their phones ringing off the hook with offers. Our folks told the NCAA they are literally forcing ASU to the FBS because of their lack of control in the workings of FCS football.

I find it interesting you are so concerned with what ASU does in the future. But, if I were in your shoes I'd be worried about schools like ASU & JMU leaving the division too. If people like ASU, JMU, Montana, and a few others go away, so does your little empire. ASU and our great fans turned the last two championship games into a huge PR boost for the division. You, I, and everyone else know that is the exception and not the rule. Just imagine a championship game between Wofford and Maine. There might be 7500 people there.

I don't understand your condescending attitude towards fans that want to see their school to advance and grow. Comments like those you made above do little to endear yourself to people who are the backbone of this division. You remind me of our former AD when he said "Marshall will live to regret the day they left the Southern Conference and 1-aa!" I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to ask to be re-admitted. A lot of schools have left 1-aa & the FCS, but I haven't seen where any of them are begging to get back in!

[89Hen]

I don't understand your condescending attitude towards fans that want to see their school to advance and grow. Comments like those you made above do little to endear yourself to people who are the backbone of this division....


That is about as big of a bunch of hogwash as has ever been posted on this board...

I realize it may be hard for your small mind to understand this...

We have beat Western so many times...

you and your cronies...

FCS is getting to be a bigger joke with each passing year...

Just imagine a championship game between Wofford and Maine.
I'm sure I won't be the only one to give you negative points for this inane drivel. xnonono2x

[Sir William]

Now I agree with the Marshall and UConn statements, but I don't know about the other two. The last time WKU had higher average attendance than JMU was 1997, and that was only by a few hundred fans. Despite coming off a series of losing seasons, JMU even maintained higher attendance than WKU in their national championship season and the following year.

Boise State never averaged over 13,000 fans when they were in I-AA, and in fact they weren't even the most highly supported school in Idaho. Now I'm not saying that JMU will ever build the type of fan support that Boise enjoys today, but you have to compare apples to apples.

Nonetheless, the question remains...can JMU realistically expect to consistently put 30K in their stands? Can they even average 20K home attendance? No smack; just inquiring.

[CopperCat]

First off, it would be pretty damn unprofessional for 3 high quality universities to tell their main source of funding to SHOVE IT.

Secondly, you can say you can get what you want; but you won't... In this day and age, tax dollars won't be thrown away for a major expansion for a I-AA school's stadium. You will get your allotted share of monies and that will be it.

$40,000,000 seems like a big DREAM to me.
xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

$40 mil is a dream indeed. But if your starting bid is high, then you might get more than if your first request is lower. Politics and money is stupid like that, but why not take advantage of it?

[Tod]

The problem, IMO, is that when some teams do well in FCS, they want to go to FBS and fight it out with the "Big Boys". That's their right, but it hurts FCS football. That's not their fault, but it is a fact.

I don't doubt for a minute that FCS would be better off and stronger if Boise State, Idaho and Nevada were still in the Big Sky. Despite how some of our esteemed posters feel about Marshall, we'd be better off with them in FCS as well. WKU, Troy, so many teams have some success and bolt. It's a real shame.

FCS will never compete with FBS for the most attention (which is all these teams that leave want), but last year we beat FBS teams seven times, had several losses by one point and/or within one score.

If FCS could consistently beat FBS teams 15 times per year, and get 40 players drafted into the NFL, that would bring a lot of respect and attention to FCS, but every time a quality FCS team leaves for the FBS, it weakens FCS and lowers the likelihood of gaining any ground at all.

Many times when these teams leave they also have one of the higher attendance figures. That's definitely true with talk of ASU, Montana, YSU and Delaware going FBS. How do you replace these programs? Not with Samfords.

We seem to constantly be replacing quality teams with teams that are not up to par with the one they replaced. It's a cycle that, if it could be broken, would put FCS into a greater spotlight and help garner more attention and respect.

The more teams in FCS that are at the level of play and support as those mentioned in this thread (that moved to FBS or appear to be considering it), the better FCS will be for it.

It's a shame that when a school leaves for FBS because the grass is greener on the other side, they don't realize that it's them and their predecessors that are taking our water.

With that said, I fully understand that schools don't care, nor should they, how doing what's best for their football team (if that's what they are, in fact, doing) effects other teams, conferences, or our subdivision. Their job is to look out for #1 (which, sadly, they're never have a chance of seeing again).

xtwocentsx

[Fresno St. Alum]

Well when schools like Nevada,Boise St.,Idaho,Troy,Marshall, & WKU leave you hope that NDSU, SDSU, UCD, UCA, UND, and S.Dakota can replace them. The D-II board says the ones moving up to FCS will just be bottom feeders, the first 4 have shown otherwise and hopefully the other 2 can follow. Maybe more eyebrows raise and a few will join the FCS.

[andy7171]

That is about as big of a bunch of hogwash as has ever been posted on this board. ASU fans don't feel second rate in the least and we don't give a crap what anyone says about ASU. I realize it may be hard for your small mind to understand this, but it is all about playing at a higher level and playing schools that actually mean something to our fan base. We have 2 games (Furman & GSU) that get ASU folks excited. We have beat Western so many times all the hype has gone out of that game and neither Wofford, Elon, UTC, or The Citadel does anything for our folks. Now we have the exciting prospect of playing Samford. Whop-Dee-D#%$-Doo! Considering how hard you and your cronies pushed for the re-naming of 1-aa it is obvious to me you were the ones so concerned about the image of the programs and the division. Call it what you will. FCS or 1-aa, it is all the same. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's still a duck. You can call it a goose, but its still a duck.

FCS is getting to be a bigger joke with each passing year. Without a strength of schedule factor in selecting playoff teams a lot of name schools avoid playing top quality opponents and choose to schedule patsies in order to get to the 8 win mark to qualify for the playoffs. ASU can't get a decent game while the bottom feeders have their phones ringing off the hook with offers. Our folks told the NCAA they are literally forcing ASU to the FBS because of their lack of control in the workings of FCS football.

I find it interesting you are so concerned with what ASU does in the future. But, if I were in your shoes I'd be worried about schools like ASU & JMU leaving the division too. If people like ASU, JMU, Montana, and a few others go away, so does your little empire. ASU and our great fans turned the last two championship games into a huge PR boost for the division. You, I, and everyone else know that is the exception and not the rule. Just imagine a championship game between Wofford and Maine. There might be 7500 people there.

I don't understand your condescending attitude towards fans that want to see their school to advance and grow. Comments like those you made above do little to endear yourself to people who are the backbone of this division. You remind me of our former AD when he said "Marshall will live to regret the day they left the Southern Conference and 1-aa!" I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to ask to be re-admitted. A lot of schools have left 1-aa & the FCS, but I haven't seen where any of them are begging to get back in!
xrolleyesx Appman, you just proved Ralph's point completely. xrolleyesx

[rufus]

Nonetheless, the question remains...can JMU realistically expect to consistently put 30K in their stands? Can they even average 20K home attendance? No smack; just inquiring.
I have no doubt that JMU could average 20k, but I'm pretty sure that we will never average 30k in FCS. We could easily bring in 25k+ for homecoming and parents weekend, and probably somewhere in the range of 15-20k for the other games.

If you think you can average 20k attendance, you don't build a 20k seat stadium. Same rule applies for churches. You build a church with capacity for Christmas and Easter, but it's not really full any other weeks of the year.

[Tod]

Well when schools like Nevada,Boise St.,Idaho,Troy,Marshall, & WKU leave you hope that NDSU, SDSU, UCD, UCA, UND, and S.Dakota can replace them. The D-II board says the ones moving up to FCS will just be bottom feeders, the first 4 have shown otherwise and hopefully the other 2 can follow. Maybe more eyebrows raise and a few will join the FCS.

True, but there's no reason we couldn't hold on to the established teams and have other programs move up. There's no limit on the size of the FCS.

Well, there is a reason, of course. They leave. My point is that there's room for everyone, and losing the best established teams is not a good thing for FCS football, IMO.

[GannonFan]

I have no doubt that JMU could average 20k, but I'm pretty sure that we will never average 30k in FCS. We could easily bring in 25k+ for homecoming and parents weekend, and probably somewhere in the range of 15-20k for the other games.

If you think you can average 20k attendance, you don't build a 20k seat stadium. Same rule applies for churches. You build a church with capacity for Christmas and Easter, but it's not really full any other weeks of the year.

I don't buy that theory of stadium building - would you really want to play in front of a half empty stadium for all but one game of the year because on that one game you can fill the place? There's a stark difference between a stadium that's filled to the brim and one that is largely empty. I've been to Temple football games where the announced attendance isn't much differernt than the attendance at a UD game (for example). Temple plays typically at the Linc in Philly or Franklin Field, and both those places hold up around 60k to 70k. 22k people in a stadium like that is just an awful environment - no buzz whatsoever. You put the same 22k in a 22k stadium, and the place is electric.

I certainly think a stadium needs to be built with the future in mind, but you don't build it purposely to have empty, and a lot of empty, seats. That's what expansions are for. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

True, but there's no reason we couldn't hold on to the established teams and have other programs move up. There's no limit on the size of the FCS.

Well, there is a reason, of course. They leave. My point is that there's room for everyone, and losing the best established teams is not a good thing for FCS football, IMO.

But who are we actually losing that some people lament is really bring the FCS down, and who have we lost recently. Sure, Nevada, Arkansas St, and NE Louisiana (now LA-Monroe) were good football schools, but they left almost 2 decades ago. Of course the loss of Idaho, Boise, and Marshall in the mid 90's was a blow, but again that's more than a decade ago now. Western Kentucky leaving is a loss of a competitive team, but it's not like we're losing a team with tons of fan support that lead it to be an "established" program. I just don't see this exodus of teams from the FCS classification to worry too much that it's in trouble. JMU, Appy, and UD aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future, if ever, so there's no point getting all worked up over it. And there are some really good programs coming in - the Dakota schools and UC Davis, as examples, are all great programs with winning traditions and a lot of resources they can employ - they aren't Samford or Savannah St's. They are a big boon to the FCS world and shouldn't be pooh poohed.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

With a winning program, we will easily fill a 20K stadium FCS - weather pending.

I think with a FBS .500 program, which the first 5-10 years would likely see at best, we could easily fill a 30K stadium. UVA and Tech max out for their games. We will soon have a living alumni base over 100K. The school is getting bigger. JMU received more applications than VA Tech this year. We are a popular school in the state.

People from the DC area in particular, especially Fairfax, Prince William and Loudon Counties (Big Northern VA Population) would love to take a 1-2 hour drive as opposed to the longer drive to UVA or Tech to watch the highest level of college football. Many in the DC area just dismiss JMU because of it being FCS.

Of course, if the program stinks, it'll be ugly like the basketball team these days... Still too many fair weather fans.

[89Hen]

I certainly think a stadium needs to be built with the future in mind, but you don't build it purposely to have empty, and a lot of empty, seats. That's what expansions are for. xthumbsupx
xnodx 100% agree. The tougher it is to get a ticket, the more people want it. Not saying you should be turning away throngs, but to have a lot of empty seats for 5 of your 6 home games xsmhx .

[89Hen]

People from the DC area in particular, especially Fairfax, Prince William and Loudon Counties (Big Northern VA Population) would love to take a 1-2 hour drive as opposed to the longer drive to UVA or Tech to watch the highest level of college football. Many in the DC area just dismiss JMU because of it being FCS.
xeyebrowx JMU would be at the highest level of college football?

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

As an aside, I think you may see NDSU or UC-Davis move up before JMU. The whole CAA thing is going to be tough to just up and leave. Conference affiliation is a strong bond. Even though JMU's bball team is pooh right now, the conference as whole has gotten tons of national attention with George Mason in the Final Four, 2 Final Four NIT team that same year (ODU and Hofstra) and this past year's Diaper Dandy VCU Sophomore Eric Maynor making national news in his buzzer beater over Duke as well as the team's effort vs. Pitt to force OT.

The real internal battle is whether FBS football is good for JMU considering what leaving the CAA might do to the school's other athletic programs.

Hey App St. - who else can we steal for a new Mid-Major sports conference? :D xconfusedx xrolleyesx xsmhx xrotatehx xoopsx

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

xeyebrowx JMU would be at the highest level of college football?

Let's be real here - I love FCS as much as the next person. The playoff system makes it the level with a true NCAA champion.

Nevertheless, no one can argue with a straight face, except maybe Ralph, that the FBS level is not the highest level in college football.

Would JMU be a top 25 football team, of course not.

[89Hen]

Would JMU be a top 25 football team, of course not.
That's kinda my point. UVA and VT are high profile teams in a BCS conference. You really think a DC area person who wants to see a high profile team in a BCS conference would instead detour to Harrisonburg to see a not-so high profile team playing in a non-BCS conference? I would liken it to saying people will go to Cincinnati games instead of making the trip down to Columbus or go to MTSU instead of UT.

[Dukie95]

People from the DC area in particular, especially Fairfax, Prince William and Loudon Counties (Big Northern VA Population) would love to take a 1-2 hour drive as opposed to the longer drive to UVA or Tech to watch the highest level of college football. Many in the DC area just dismiss JMU because of it being FCS.

While JMU has a large population of alums in Northern VA. It is a largely dis-interested female alumni base that has to go our of their way to follow what's going on in Harrisonburg.

JMU can expand, but getting butts in the new seats will be a problem. Unless they're already fans, the average alum in Northern Virginia will have no idea any expansion is happening, unless the Washington Post suddenly decides JMU is worth writing about.

[GannonFan]

While JMU has a large population of alums in Northern VA. It is a largely dis-interested female alumni base that has to go our of their way to follow what's going on in Harrisonburg.

JMU can expand, but getting butts in the new seats will be a problem. Unless they're already fans, the average alum in Northern Virginia will have no idea any expansion is happening, unless the Washington Post suddenly decides JMU is worth writing about.

The other thing, is, how much bigger can JMU as a school get? Part of the current rise is helped by the relatively large student population of the Echo Generation, the children of the Baby Boomers now going through college. Almost every school has either grown (maybe not as large as JMU) or become more selective in their admissions since the pool of applicants is at an all-time high around the country. But 5-10 years from now, the number of people applying to college could very well decline just due to demographics. 20k is a lot of kids, but it pales in comparison to some real big state schools in FBS. Is continued growth, and growth at levels close to recently experienced growth, a real attainable goal for JMU given future demographics?

[JMU2004]

The other thing, is, how much bigger can JMU as a school get? Part of the current rise is helped by the relatively large student population of the Echo Generation, the children of the Baby Boomers now going through college. Almost every school has either grown (maybe not as large as JMU) or become more selective in their admissions since the pool of applicants is at an all-time high around the country. But 5-10 years from now, the number of people applying to college could very well decline just due to demographics. 20k is a lot of kids, but it pales in comparison to some real big state schools in FBS. Is continued growth, and growth at levels close to recently experienced growth, a real attainable goal for JMU given future demographics?

While JMU will probably always grow, it certainly will slow down after 20,000. This rate of growth is crazy!

[AppMan]

I'm sure I won't be the only one to give you negative points for this inane drivel. xnonono2x

I understand the rules of this board now. It is a crime to express any opinion that does not display an unwavering support to the FCS, or respond to someone who has taken the liberty to totally misprepresent you. Nice.

[Tod]

But who are we actually losing that some people lament is really bring the FCS down, and who have we lost recently. Sure, Nevada, Arkansas St, and NE Louisiana (now LA-Monroe) were good football schools, but they left almost 2 decades ago. Of course the loss of Idaho, Boise, and Marshall in the mid 90's was a blow, but again that's more than a decade ago now. Western Kentucky leaving is a loss of a competitive team, but it's not like we're losing a team with tons of fan support that lead it to be an "established" program. I just don't see this exodus of teams from the FCS classification to worry too much that it's in trouble. JMU, Appy, and UD aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future, if ever, so there's no point getting all worked up over it. And there are some really good programs coming in - the Dakota schools and UC Davis, as examples, are all great programs with winning traditions and a lot of resources they can employ - they aren't Samford or Savannah St's. They are a big boon to the FCS world and shouldn't be pooh poohed.

It's true that most of those teams left a decade or two ago, but I-AA/FCS is less than three decades old! I think an overall trend of good teams leaving for FBS is bad for FCS. The Big Sky has certainly suffered some.

While JMU, ASU, UD, GSU, YSU UM/MSU (I think/hope it will be a package deal if it ever happens), etc. may not be going anywhere for awhile, I think it would be detrimental to FCS to lose these programs. I don't see how it couldn't be.

But I agree that adding teams like NDSU, SDSU, UCD, etc. is great for FCS. But, again, there's no limit that I'm aware of as to how many teams FCS can have, so adding great programs while retaining great programs would be the best for FCS, IMO.

I guess my major worry is that too many good/great teams will leave too soon, although I don't want to see any of them leave at all.

xtwocentsx

[AppMan]

xrolleyesx Appman, you just proved Ralph's point completely. xrolleyesx

Please explain how. And please don't come back with some short, cute, non-descript answer. I want to see how you spin my post into that framework.

[89Hen]

I understand the rules of this board now. It is a crime to express any opinion that does not display an unwavering support to the FCS, or respond to someone who has taken the liberty to totally misprepresent you. Nice.
Please. You didn't make those comments I used the "quote" function to post? Your display was ANTI FCS, not just unsupporting. xcoffeex

[andy7171]

Please explain how. And please don't come back with some short, cute, non-descript answer. I want to see how you spin my post into that framework.
He said certain ASU and JMU fans were FBS-stricken and their fans can't stand the idea of being FCS.
Then you went on a tirade of how FCS is second rate and that if the ASU and JMUs of the world would move up, FCS would be a disaster area.
I'm not spinning anything, just stating how I read it.
Now just relax. xpeacex

[Sir William]

My xtwocentsx :

I hope that school's like JMU, App, Montana, GSU, UD and YSU will make a commitment to stay in FCS and continue to be excellent at it. Other highly and consistently successful FCS schools like Furman, UMass, W&M, Lehigh, McNeese, UNI, etc will in all likelihood never make the move to FBS, b/c FCS works better for us. That's not to say that FCS is inferior to FBS (it isn't!), just different, and rewards good and deserving teams for successful seasons. All of the above teams (and others), with their fans and traditions, make FCS exciting to me.

I remember back around 1980, Furman went 9-1-1, losing only to UNC. Not yet classified as "I-AA" at that time, FU received no postseason play. The same has been true, pre-1980, for other current FCS schools like App, Montana, etc. FCS has provided us all with a true championship forum and national attention.

And don't forget for every Marshall and Boise State in FBS, there are many more UL-Monroe's and Idaho's just trying to eke out a winning season every now and then.

I hope the aforementioned schools will stay b/c I personally love the rivalry we have with App and GSU, and I look forward to meeting schools like Montana, Delaware, JMU, amd YSU in the playoffs.

IMO, that's the smart and right move, both now and long-term.

[GannonFan]

It's true that most of those teams left a decade or two ago, but I-AA/FCS is less than three decades old! I think an overall trend of good teams leaving for FBS is bad for FCS. The Big Sky has certainly suffered some.

While JMU, ASU, UD, GSU, YSU UM/MSU (I think/hope it will be a package deal if it ever happens), etc. may not be going anywhere for awhile, I think it would be detrimental to FCS to lose these programs. I don't see how it couldn't be.

But I agree that adding teams like NDSU, SDSU, UCD, etc. is great for FCS. But, again, there's no limit that I'm aware of as to how many teams FCS can have, so adding great programs while retaining great programs would be the best for FCS, IMO.

I guess my major worry is that too many good/great teams will leave too soon, although I don't want to see any of them leave at all.

xtwocentsx

I certainly don't doubt that losing programs like you mention would be a huge blow to FCS football, I just don't think they are likely to go anytime in the next 10 years at least, if ever. And in that regard, I was taking exception to another poster who made the claim that FCS football is in dire straits because it loses its best teams while it replaces them with poor programs. I just don't see where that is happening frequently enough to be worried, and I think the number of teams that could move up are at an all-time low: FCS is much more stable today than probably ever. And then when you include some real power programs from DII into the mix (the aforementioned UC Davis and the Dakota schools, state and non-state) then you can argue that FCS hasn't lost much at all over the first 25 years or so.

[AppMan]

ralph you are right once again... there is nothing wrong with fcs except in front a few people who feel insufficient to their buddies and want to better than them... well guess what fcs is some pretty damn good football so deal with it

Sorry to break this to you, but this isn't just about "pretty damn good football" and it is obvious our fan base agrees. Just take a glance at our following to away games. Yes, ASU took a massive crowd to the last two national championship games, but we take about 150 to the same stadium when we play UTC. We have huge crowds in Boone, but that is because our people love to come home to Boone and enjoy the atmosphere Charlie Cobb and company have created. ASU took huge crowds to Wake Forest. You won't ever see that kind of an Mountaineer following in Spartanburg, Greenville, Burlington, Statesboro, or even Cullowhee. We even had a larger crowd at NC State this past year than we ever have for any away SoCon game. It is all about what the MAJORITY of fans want. Do you honestly think most ASU fans would rather watch their Mountaineers play Wofford over ECU? Samford over Marshall? Elon over JMU? If so, you are fooling yourself. ASU will never grow the Yosef Club to our goal of $3 mil playing FCS teams. Because our fan base is so cheap, ASU has to rely on people other than ASU grads to pay the scholarship bills. Sure, we have a lot of "fans" who say they support the program, but they do it by buying t-shirts, caps, and attending a few games. NOT by digging into their pockets and sending a check to the Yosef Club. If you come up with a solution to our scholarship needs by keeping the same level of play, I want to hear it.

BTW, do you belong to the Yosef Club? At what level?

[Tod]

I certainly don't doubt that losing programs like you mention would be a huge blow to FCS football, I just don't think they are likely to go anytime in the next 10 years at least, if ever. And in that regard, I was taking exception to another poster who made the claim that FCS football is in dire straits because it loses its best teams while it replaces them with poor programs. I just don't see where that is happening frequently enough to be worried, and I think the number of teams that could move up are at an all-time low: FCS is much more stable today than probably ever. And then when you include some real power programs from DII into the mix (the aforementioned UC Davis and the Dakota schools, state and non-state) then you can argue that FCS hasn't lost much at all over the first 25 years or so.

Right. I agree, FCS is not in any danger. Heck, if it was up to me, I would have traded WKU for any of those three schools. :D Just would have been happier to have them all. xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Tod]

My xtwocentsx :

I hope that school's like JMU, App, Montana, GSU, UD and YSU will make a commitment to stay in FCS and continue to be excellent at it. Other highly and consistently successful FCS schools like Furman, UMass, W&M, Lehigh, McNeese, UNI, etc will in all likelihood never make the move to FBS, b/c FCS works better for us. That's not to say that FCS is inferior to FBS (it isn't!), just different, and rewards good and deserving teams for successful seasons. All of the above teams (and others), with their fans and traditions, make FCS exciting to me.

I remember back around 1980, Furman went 9-1-1, losing only to UNC. Not yet classified as "I-AA" at that time, FU received no postseason play. The same has been true, pre-1980, for other current FCS schools like App, Montana, etc. FCS has provided us all with a true championship forum and national attention.

And don't forget for every Marshall and Boise State in FBS, there are many more UL-Monroe's and Idaho's just trying to eke out a winning season every now and then.

I hope the aforementioned school's will stay b/c I personally love the rivalry we have with App and GSU, and I look forward to meeting school's like Montana, Delaware, JMU, amd YSU in the playoffs.

IMO, that's the smart and right move, both now and long-term.

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[andy7171]

Sorry to break this to you, but this isn't just about "pretty damn good football" and it is obvious our fan base agrees. Just take a glance at our following to away games. Yes, ASU took a massive crowd to the last two national championship games, but we take about 150 to the same stadium when we play UTC. We have huge crowds in Boone, but that is because our people love to come home to Boone and enjoy the atmosphere Charlie Cobb and company have created. ASU took huge crowds to Wake Forest. You won't ever see that kind of an Mountaineer following in Spartanburg, Greenville, Burlington, Statesboro, or even Cullowhee. We even had a larger crowd at NC State this past year than we ever have for any away SoCon game. It is all about what the MAJORITY of fans want. Do you honestly think most ASU fans would rather watch their Mountaineers play Wofford over ECU? Samford over Marshall? Elon over JMU? If so, you are fooling yourself. ASU will never grow the Yosef Club to our goal of $3 mil playing FCS teams. Because our fan base is so cheap, ASU has to rely on people other than ASU grads to pay the scholarship bills. Sure, we have a lot of "fans" who say they support the program, but they do it by buying t-shirts, caps, and attending a few games. NOT by digging into their pockets and sending a check to the Yosef Club. If you come up with a solution to our scholarship needs by keeping the same level of play, I want to hear it.

BTW, do you belong to the Yosef Club? At what level?
I'm pretty sure appfan2008 is still in school.

So are you saying that only REAL fans pay out the nose to booster clubs? Are you MORE of a ASU fan because you are higher ranked in the Yosef Club? If so, congratulations! xrolleyesx

...and what does this have to do with the JMU stadium expansion?

[AppMan]

Please. You didn't make those comments I used the "quote" function to post?

I think you meant to say... "Didn't you make those comments I used to post" If so, yes I did. However, I was responding to an attack by Ralph on myself and some JMU folks.


Your display was ANTI FCS, not just unsupporting.

It wasn't anti-FCS as much as it was a reality check. No, the FCS won't wither on the vine and die if ASU and some others leave. The division will simply replace them with more D-II schools. My point is, and always has been, anytime high profile schools leave the quality of the division diminishes. You can not begin to convince me the FCS is just as good today as it was when Marshall, Troy, Boise, Nevada, N Texas, MTSU, Ark State, and all the others were around. As we say down here, that dog won't hunt! Some people simply don't like it when others refuse to tow the company line. However, I thought people were at least allowed to resdond to attacks and state an opinion. I now understand no one is allowed to say anything negative about the FCS on this board. Those of us who have a different opinion of the FCS can be attacked and ridiculed, but we are not allowed respond and defend ourselves.

[andy7171]

AppMan,
Calm down. Stop getting "angry" this is going to get moved to the smack board if the hostilities keep escalating.
xpeacex

[AppMan]

Let's be real here - I love FCS as much as the next person. The playoff system makes it the level with a true NCAA champion.

Nevertheless, no one can argue with a straight face, except maybe Ralph, that the FBS level is not the highest level in college football.

Would JMU be a top 25 football team, of course not.

Some common sense on the AGS board! You had better watch out for the revenge of Ralph and the FCS Storm Troopers!

[AppMan]

I'm pretty sure appfan2008 is still in school.

So are you saying that only REAL fans pay out the nose to booster clubs? Are you MORE of a ASU fan because you are higher ranked in the Yosef Club? If so, congratulations! xrolleyesx

...and what does this have to do with the JMU stadium expansion?

I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. The discussion I was having with him was that ASU has a lot of fans who like to talk the talk, but they do not necessarily walk the walk. In many ways those who contribute to schools scholarship programs are more dedicated than those who just buy a t-shirt. Obviously I'm not talking about students, but most anyone can help at a certain level. FYI, I began giving to Yosef my first year out of school in 1978. It was only $25 back then, but I was doing what I could to help ASU better compete against those we played. There are few college graduates this day who can't spare $100 per year. Heck, most kids in college today drive better cars than I do and waste more than $100 a month on CD's and beer!

BTW, I do not need to calm down because I'm not angry, mad, or anything. I'm just responding. Geez, can't a guy say anything without people thinking they are loosing it?

[youwouldno]

FBS is the highest level of college football. And App St, JMU, and any other FCS team has no chance of ever competing at the top of the FBS level. The choice isn't winning in FCS or winning in FBS; that's an easy choice for virtually any program. The choice is relevance in FCS or irrelevance in FBS.

The people who prefer irrelevance are not real football fans. They are dumb, bandwagon fans with an inferiority complex, and semi-intelligent football fans should not want to appease them.

[89Hen]

You can not begin to convince me the FCS is just as good today as it was when Marshall, Troy, Boise, Nevada, N Texas, MTSU, Ark State, and all the others were around.
Then there's not much left to discuss.

Those of us who have been around a long time know that all of those teams have been replaced twice over. Nobody misses MTSU, Troy or ArkSt. Marshall, Boise and Nevada, sure they were bigger losses, but the addition of NDSU, SDSU, CalPoly, UC-D, Portland State, Jacksonville State, Towson, Coastal, Hampton.... please. I-AA is stronger today than it's EVER been.

You are more than welcome to think I-A might be a better fit for your team and you are absolutely welcome to say that here without fear of being chastized. WKU fans said that and nobody here begrudged them for that. However, none of them used your method of smear posting.

[DTSpider]

Back to JMU. With the growth rate fo the school, there will be a lot of alumni looking to get tickets. Not to mention the Virginia Tech fans who can no longer afford tickets in Blacksburg. Maybe I'm crazy, but I see no reason why JMU can't get 30,000+ fans at games in 15 years if they are in a CUSA type conference. As a soon to be large state campus based school there's no reason to think JMU cannot echo the success Virginia Tech football has had (just remember it took Tech 25 years as well). If you would have asked folks at Tech in 1985 if they would be playing in the ACC and competing for a national title, they would think you were crazy. After all, Tech played at UR in '86. Regardless, get this thing built and it'll be good for the CAA short-term.

On a side note, I think everyone in VA's hearts & prayers are down in Blacksburg today.

[citdog]

James Madison looks to have a very nice facility

[appfan2008]

Sorry to break this to you, but this isn't just about "pretty damn good football" and it is obvious our fan base agrees. Just take a glance at our following to away games. Yes, ASU took a massive crowd to the last two national championship games, but we take about 150 to the same stadium when we play UTC. We have huge crowds in Boone, but that is because our people love to come home to Boone and enjoy the atmosphere Charlie Cobb and company have created. ASU took huge crowds to Wake Forest. You won't ever see that kind of an Mountaineer following in Spartanburg, Greenville, Burlington, Statesboro, or even Cullowhee. We even had a larger crowd at NC State this past year than we ever have for any away SoCon game. It is all about what the MAJORITY of fans want. Do you honestly think most ASU fans would rather watch their Mountaineers play Wofford over ECU? Samford over Marshall? Elon over JMU? If so, you are fooling yourself. ASU will never grow the Yosef Club to our goal of $3 mil playing FCS teams. Because our fan base is so cheap, ASU has to rely on people other than ASU grads to pay the scholarship bills. Sure, we have a lot of "fans" who say they support the program, but they do it by buying t-shirts, caps, and attending a few games. NOT by digging into their pockets and sending a check to the Yosef Club. If you come up with a solution to our scholarship needs by keeping the same level of play, I want to hear it.

BTW, do you belong to the Yosef Club? At what level?
dude... you are so wrong about this one... have you ever been to an asu-wcu game at western? or asu-furman game in greenville??? we packed their stadiums out so dont tell me that people dont travel because i for one and thousands of others do and will forever

[appfan2008]

Back to JMU. With the growth rate fo the school, there will be a lot of alumni looking to get tickets. Not to mention the Virginia Tech fans who can no longer afford tickets in Blacksburg. Maybe I'm crazy, but I see no reason why JMU can't get 30,000+ fans at games in 15 years if they are in a CUSA type conference. As a soon to be large state campus based school there's no reason to think JMU cannot echo the success Virginia Tech football has had (just remember it took Tech 25 years as well). If you would have asked folks at Tech in 1985 if they would be playing in the ACC and competing for a national title, they would think you were crazy. After all, Tech played at UR in '86. Regardless, get this thing built and it'll be good for the CAA short-term.

On a side note, I think everyone in VA's hearts & prayers are down in Blacksburg today.
what a tragedy

[Fresno St. Alum]

Where would JMU go if they leave. To north for the Sun Belt, C-USA is full, Big East no, MAC affiliate like Temple or full, they're a little east for full membership. CAA seems like the best place for them unless the Big East breaks up or C-USA does.

[Saint3333]

Then there's not much left to discuss.

Those of us who have been around a long time know that all of those teams have been replaced twice over. Nobody misses MTSU, Troy or ArkSt. Marshall, Boise and Nevada, sure they were bigger losses, but the addition of NDSU, SDSU, CalPoly, UC-D, Portland State, Jacksonville State, Towson, Coastal, Hampton.... please.


None of those teams mentioned can claim to have been successful at the 1-AA level (yet) as Boise or Nevada and certainly not Marshall were. Maybe some of those Great West teams will one day, but as of today they have not.

There have been 28 1-AA/FCS champions. 7 of those champions are now at the BCS level. I don't want to imagine a FCS without programs like GSU, YSU, Montana, and ASU.

I agree the FCS following is probably stronger than it has ever been, but the public following football in general is also the strongest that it has ever been (NFL, BCS, and FCS). The level of play at the FCS level would be better if teams like Marshall were still around. Ok as an App fan I now need to go wash my mouth out and repentxoopsx

[Sir William]

The level of play at the FCS level would be better if teams like Marshall were still around. Ok as an App fan I now need to go wash my mouth out and repentxoopsx

I washed my mouth out and repented, and I didn't even post this! ;)

[AppMan]

dude... you are so wrong about this one... have you ever been to an asu-wcu game at western? or asu-furman game in greenville??? we packed their stadiums out so dont tell me that people dont travel because i for one and thousands of others do and will forever

Son, you are way out of your league on this one. FYI, I was attending those games before you were born. To be exact I have only missed ONE ASU/WCU game since 1977 and I don't think I've evern missed a single ASU/Furman game during that same time period. Trust me on this one, ASU has never taken "thousands" of fans to Greenville, ever. We may have taken up to 1500 to Western, but never "thousands." The largest crowd in WCU history was in 1994 at a lttle over 15,000. We only received 1000 tickets for that game. They wouldn't even let us bring our band. Sure we had some fans show up to buy standing room only tickets, but there is no way we had "thousands" there.

In light of what happend in Blacksburg today I'm just not very interested in saying anything more about this. My heart and prayers go out to all the familes and friends of all the victims. Sad, so very, very sad....

[NoSpinZone]

For JMU historically it seems like a stretch to say that you would average 20k. Yeah people were more pumped up the last couple of years, but it only takes one slip to lose that momentum.

2001 10,340
2002 9,949
2003 10,242
2004 12,487
2005 13,525
2006 15,133

[appfan2008]

Son, you are way out of your league on this one. FYI, I was attending those games before you were born. To be exact I have only missed ONE ASU/WCU game since 1977 and I don't think I've evern missed a single ASU/Furman game during that same time period. Trust me on this one, ASU has never taken "thousands" of fans to Greenville, ever. We may have taken up to 1500 to Western, but never "thousands." The largest crowd in WCU history was in 1994 at a lttle over 15,000. We only received 1000 tickets for that game. They wouldn't even let us bring our band. Sure we had some fans show up to buy standing room only tickets, but there is no way we had "thousands" there.

In light of what happend in Blacksburg today I'm just not very interested in saying anything more about this. My heart and prayers go out to all the familes and friends of all the victims. Sad, so very, very sad....
sir you are very wrong... if you were at wcu this past fall in the driving rainstorm you would know that there were THOUSANDS of app fans there period... there is no debating that...

and the furman game in greenville in 05... once again if you were there as you claim you were... you should know that yes there were thousands of app fans there... it doesnt take a genious to look around and see the crowd i was there and we filled up that away side... dont tell this is not true... it is true i was there and saw it with my own two eyes period

you may have been going to these way before i was born as you claim and that is all good and well as i can not change when i was born but i know what i know and that is that over the time that i have followed app they have traveled very well including myself...

how can you be so wrong? xnonono2x

[WUTNDITWAA]

Exactly, how smart is a genious? :D


I know I'm being a smartass, but I couldn't resist.

[*****]

... ASU fans don't feel second rate in the least... Considering how hard you and your cronies pushed for the re-naming of 1-aa... FCS is getting to be a bigger joke... Without a strength of schedule factor in selecting playoff teams... the NCAA they are literally forcing ASU to the FBS because of their lack of control in the workings of FCS football... If people like ASU, JMU, Montana, and a few others go away, so does your little empire... I don't understand your condescending attitude towards fans that want to see their school to advance...Where to begin with your error-riddled tirade... guess the truth stung ya huh?

I didn't mention ASU once in my post. xnonox I mentioned you. xnodx

I didn't push for the name change, I was vocal against it. xnonox

FCS is a joke? What does that say about your fave team? xnonox

No SoS used in selecting playoff teams? xnonox I guess you don't follow FCS much. xsmhx

NCAA forcing App St to FBS? Is that your current propaganda? Have fun with that. xsmhx

My empire? If that's what you call it. xlolx xlolx Jealous much? xnodx

You don't understand because you are in such a blind rage against FCS. You are FBS AT ALL COSTS!

I have watched you on this tirade for years, going over to the JMU board to recruit followers, I know your schtick. It is OLD. You spout it and spout it then anyone who questions it immediately is branded as an App St Hater and wants to keep teams down. That's BS. Now run along and start some hate raph threads like you have in the past for you and your circlejerk buddies. xpeacex xnonono2x xwhistlex xreadx xcoffeex

[Fresno St. Alum]

If FCS is a joke then App St. is the Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, or Lisa Lampinelli of the FCS. Those are the 3 best comics in my book.

[boonedocks]

If FCS is a joke then App St. is the Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, or Lisa Lampinelli of the FCS. Those are the 3 best comics in my book.


please be joking

[89Hen]

None of those teams mentioned can claim to have been successful at the 1-AA level (yet) as Boise or Nevada and certainly not Marshall were. Maybe some of those Great West teams will one day, but as of today they have not.
IMO that doesn't matter. NDSU would have made the playoffs last year, Cal Poly and Coastal have, UC-D might have a couple years ago... I think there's a lot more parity in I-AA right now too, so who knows if Boise or Nevada would be as good as they were now?

[AppMan]

sir you are very wrong... if you were at wcu this past fall in the driving rainstorm you would know that there were THOUSANDS of app fans there period... there is no debating that...

and the furman game in greenville in 05... once again if you were there as you claim you were... you should know that yes there were thousands of app fans there... it doesnt take a genious to look around and see the crowd i was there and we filled up that away side... dont tell this is not true... it is true i was there and saw it with my own two eyes period

you may have been going to these way before i was born as you claim and that is all good and well as i can not change when i was born but i know what i know and that is that over the time that i have followed app they have traveled very well including myself...

how can you be so wrong? xnonono2x

That's just it, I am NOT wrong. Let's try again with some cold, hard, facts.

Today I spoke to the Furman athletic ticket manager. She said ASU only took a total of 550 total tickets in '05. That number includes 300 tickets for supporters and the 250 for team comp tickets (players famlies, coaches wives, & administration). We also took the band which added another 200 (traveling squad) to the total. That comes out to a total of 750 people. I'm sure we had some walk up purchases and I asked her to estimate that number as well. She said very specificly ASU had less than 1000 total people at that game. The game was played on TV. I have a copy of the game and I can say without any hesitation if you pushed all the ASU fans together they would have taken up less than one section. BTW, she told me they usually sell 3,000 tickets to GSU whenever they come to town. Don't take my word for it, me give her a call at 864-294-2061. Now on to the Western game. I spoke to ASU's ticket manager Steve White, whom I have known for a long time. He pulled the figures from last season's WCU game. Turns out ASU requested 500 tickets for supporters and another 500 for athletic comps. We have far more players parents, friends of players, and administrators request tickets for Western more than anywhere else we travel to. Oh yea, we didn't sell all 500 of the tickets we took for supporters. Taking that into consideration I seriously doubt we had more than 1,000 people show up at the gate to buy tickets. I also have that game on video. The pressbox side of the stadium was full, but it was almost all Western fans.

Estimating crowd size is a difficult thing to do. When you are among a group of people and you are looking around your immediate area it is easy to think the crowd is much larger than it actually is. If you look at the same group of people from across the field, you get a completely differerent perspective.

I like your passion for ASU athletics and I wowuld do nothing to diminish your spirit. However, in this case the facts are just that. FACTS.

[Saint3333]

IMO that doesn't matter. NDSU would have made the playoffs last year, Cal Poly and Coastal have, UC-D might have a couple years ago... I think there's a lot more parity in I-AA right now too, so who knows if Boise or Nevada would be as good as they were now?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But here's why I stand for mine.

Boise and Nevada had very respectible track records:

Boise - 5 playoff appearances, a 8-4 record with a runner-up and a championship

Nevada - 7 playoff appearances, a 9-7 record with a runner-up

NDSU - great year, lots of potential, but still way to early to compare to these schools. Hypothetically they could win 3 straight championships or they could get in the Gateway and miss the playoffs every year. We just don't know yet.

Cal Poly - 1-1 in the playoffs, again too young of an FCS program

Coastal - 0-1 in the playoffs (too young of a program, not really a fair comparison)

We're talking about teams with a lot of potential versus proven teams. These teams still have a ways to go to match the rplayoff resumes of MTSU, Troy, U La-Monroe, much less a Nevada, Boise, or Marshall.

http://www.diaafootball.com/playoffbyname.html

[AppMan]

Where to begin with your error-riddled tirade... guess the truth stung ya huh?

I didn't mention ASU once in my post. xnonox I mentioned you. xnodx

I didn't push for the name change, I was vocal against it. xnonox

FCS is a joke? What does that say about your fave team? xnonox

No SoS used in selecting playoff teams? xnonox I guess you don't follow FCS much. xsmhx

NCAA forcing App St to FBS? Is that your current propaganda? Have fun with that. xsmhx

My empire? If that's what you call it. xlolx xlolx Jealous much? xnodx


You don't understand because you are in such a blind rage against FCS. You are FBS AT ALL COSTS!

I have watched you on this tirade for years, going over to the JMU board to recruit followers, I know your schtick. It is OLD. You spout it and spout it then anyone who questions it immediately is branded as an App St Hater and wants to keep teams down. That's BS. Now run along and start some hate raph threads like you have in the past for you and your circlejerk buddies. xpeacex xnonono2x xwhistlex xreadx xcoffeex

You didn't sting me in the least. All you did was confirm everything I have come to know about you. First and foremost, you are the master of spin. You could make a game between Stony Brook and St Francis sound like the Rose Bowl. JMU2K_DukeDog said it best: "Nevertheless, no one can argue with a straight face, except maybe Ralph, that the FBS level is not the highest level in college football." Of course he is one of those delusional JMU fans who is "FBS stricken" like me. For the record, I could care less what you or anyone else thinks of ASU or me. I simply find it amusing you determine it necessary to sit on your royal FCS throne and make disparaging statements about those who want to strive for something more. Why? Why should it concern you at all? You didn't push for the name change??? Well, you may not have been in favor of this FCS name, but you were one of THE most vocal proponents of doing away with 1-aa and going with PCS. So don't try to hide behind semantics. You guys are so stinking sensitive. I said the FCS is a joke, not necessarily the teams in the FCS. The way the NCAA has set this thing up stinks. Grouping low-scholarship and non-scholarship programs together with schools who are playing at the highest level is ridiculous. It is insane to lump programs with high school sized stadiums and budgets that draw 1500 per game with folks like Montana, Delaware, and mean old Appalachian. In the FBS there are at least requirements for a minimum numbers of scholarships, coaches, and home attendance. They do attempt to make sure everyone in the division has made some type of commitment to the sport. The FCS has no requirements to participate other than being D-I. Line off a cow pasture, drive a couple of goal posts into the ground and you're in business! If there is a SOS factor in determining playoff spots, somebody on the committee isn't paying any attention to it. If it does actually exist all these schools loading up with weak sisters just to make the playoffs would come to a screeching halt. BTW, that comment about forcing us to the FBS didn't come from me, it was said by ASU Director of Athletics Charlie Cobb at an ASU event last month. I did make a mistake in referring to the FCS as your empire; I should have said your fantasy world. Jealous?? Of what??? I am in no blind rage against anything. I just call 'em like I see 'em! You claim to know all about me. Son, you don't know squat about me or what I think. If you did you wouldn't make such idiotic statements like "You are FBS AT ALL COSTS!" I am in favor of ASU moving to the FBS because in the current college football climate that is the best alternative for ASU. You continually distort my opinion on this subject. I have NEVER said ASU belonged on equal footing with the BCS conference schools. What I have repeatedly gone on record as saying is I would prefer an all new division. One that takes the bottom half of the FBS and the top teams in the FCS and merges them together. I want the NCAA to create a division where half the teams involved aren't actively working to restrict the more aggressive programs. I want a division where there are scholarship requirements. NOT LIMITS, REQUIREMENTS!! There is a HUGE difference. I want to see ASU involved with like minded schools that actually take this stuff seriously and put resources into it. Not a bunch of programs that are in a division just because the NCAA says they have to be since in order to play college basketball at the D-I level. BTW, I don't need a "shtick" because unlike you, I'm not out to fool anybody. I've also never had to recruit anyone to do anything. I go to the JMU board from time to time because they have a group of folks who actually have some drive and ambition to better their school. I've never started any "hate ralph" threads, didn't have to. In closing let me say you really showed real class with that "circle jerk buddies" comment. Any credibility you think you might have had pretty much vanished with that. More of the same old Ralph. No substance, just a bunch of put downs and name calling. Hope you're proud of it, because I'm un-impressed!

I want to apologize to the JMU fans for my part in taking this thread away from the discussion it was intended for. It wasn't me who fired the first shot, but I responded. I should have been smart enought to realize I was getting into a discussion with Ralph that is totally futile. I'm done!

[Fresno St. Alum]

You didn't sting me in the least. All you did was confirm everything I have come to know about you. First and foremost, you are the master of spin. You could make a game between Stony Brook and St Francis sound like the Rose Bowl. JMU2K_DukeDog said it best: "Nevertheless, no one can argue with a straight face, except maybe Ralph, that the FBS level is not the highest level in college football." Of course he is one of those delusional JMU fans who is "FBS stricken" like me. For the record, I could care less what you or anyone else thinks of ASU or me. I simply find it amusing you find it necessary to sit on your royal FCS throne and make disparaging statements about those who want to strive for something more. Why? Why should it concern you at all? You didn't push for the name change??? Well, you may not have been in favor of this FCS name, but you were one of THE most vocal proponents of doing away with 1-aa and going with PCS. So don't try to hide behind semantics. You guys are so stinking sensitive. I said the FCS is a joke, not necessarily the teams in the FCS. The way the NCAA has set this thing up stinks. Grouping low-scholarship and non-scholarship programs together with schools who are playing at the highest level is ridiculous. It is insane to lump programs with high school sized stadiums and budgets that draw 1500 per game with folks like Montana, Delaware, and mean old Appalachian. In the FBS there are at least requirements for a minimum numbers of scholarships, coaches, and home attendance. They do attempt to make sure everyone in the division has made some type of commitment to the sport. The FCS has no requirements to participate other than being D-I. Line off a cow pasture, drive a couple of goal posts into the ground and you're in business! If there is a SOS factor in determining playoff spots, somebody on the committee isn't paying any attention to it. If so all these schools loading up with weak sisters just to make the playoffs would come to a screeching halt. BTW, that comment about forcing us to the FBS wasn't from me, it came from the mouth of ASU Director of Athletics Charlie Cobb at an ASU event last month. I made a mistake in saying your empire; I should have said your fantasy world. Jealous?? Of what??? I am in no blind rage against anything. I just call 'em like I see 'em! You claim to know all about me. Son, you don't know squat about me or what I think. If you did you wouldn't make such idiotic statements like "You are FBS AT ALL COSTS!" I am in favor of the FBS because, in the current college football climate, that is the best alternative for ASU. I have NEVER said ASU belonged on equal footing with the BCS conference schools. You continually distort my opinion of college football. I have repeatedly gone on record as saying I would prefer a new division to form. One that takes the bottom half of the FBS and the top teams in the FCS and merges them together. I want the NCAA to create a division where half the teams involved aren't actively working to restrict the better programs. I want a division where there are scholarship requirements. NOT LIMITS, REQUIREMENTS!! There is a HUGE difference. I want to see ASU involved with lie minded schools that actually take this stuff seriously and put resources into it. Not a bunch of programs that are in a division just because the NCAA says they have to be since they play college basketball at the D-I level. BTW, I don't need a "shtick" because I'm not out to fool anybody. I've also never had to recruit anyone to do anything. I go to the JMU board from time to time because they have some folks who actually have some drive and ambition to better their school. I've never started any "hate ralph" threads, didn't have to. BTW, you showed your real class with that "circle jerk buddies" comment. Bet you came up with that one all by yourself! Hope you're proud of it, because I'm un-impressed. BTW, nice use of the little smileys with every sentence you wrote.

Cliff's Notes for this post please:D

[jmufootball2]

Well, if you look at our game day atmosphere now compared to what it was in 2003-before, you will realize why we have good attendance. Sure the winning helps and we have dominated at home over the past 5-6 years. We turn students and other fans away because we dont have a "hill" or extra seating space. If we could actually get a home playoff game it would help tremendously. We could get 18k + nexy year if we make the playoffs and have a home playoff game. The only way to fit that many fans thought would be to add more temporary seats.

[appfan2008]

That's just it, I am NOT wrong. Let's try again with some cold, hard, facts.

Today I spoke to the Furman athletic ticket manager. She said ASU only took a total of 550 total tickets in '05. That number includes 300 tickets for supporters and the 250 for team comp tickets (players famlies, coaches wives, & administration). We also took the band which added another 200 (traveling squad) to the total. That comes out to a total of 750 people. I'm sure we had some walk up purchases and I asked her to estimate that number as well. She said very specificly ASU had less than 1000 total people at that game. The game was played on TV. I have a copy of the game and I can say without any hesitation if you pushed all the ASU fans together they would have taken up less than one section. BTW, she told me they usually sell 3,000 tickets to GSU whenever they come to town. Don't take my word for it, me give her a call at 864-294-2061. Now on to the Western game. I spoke to ASU's ticket manager Steve White, whom I have known for a long time. He pulled the figures from last season's WCU game. Turns out ASU requested 500 tickets for supporters and another 500 for athletic comps. We have far more players parents, friends of players, and administrators request tickets for Western more than anywhere else we travel to. Oh yea, we didn't sell all 500 of the tickets we took for supporters. Taking that into consideration I seriously doubt we had more than 1,000 people show up at the gate to buy tickets. I also have that game on video. The pressbox side of the stadium was full, but it was almost all Western fans.

Estimating crowd size is a difficult thing to do. When you are among a group of people and you are looking around your immediate area it is easy to think the crowd is much larger than it actually is. If you look at the same group of people from across the field, you get a completely differerent perspective.

I like your passion for ASU athletics and I wowuld do nothing to diminish your spirit. However, in this case the facts are just that. FACTS.
well if those are the facts then I will not debate them... what i will do is offer an apology, say i was only going off of what i saw, and i wish it was better... I do have a passion for asu and could have sworn we had more but i understand and unfortunately i have no time for research with all my finals coming up and papers to write and such (hence the fact i shouldnt even be on here right now) but i will say sorry i was only going off what i saw and i assure you i thought i saw more than that but if those are the numbers than i must believe them

[AppMan]

well if those are the facts then I will not debate them... what i will do is offer an apology, say i was only going off of what i saw, and i wish it was better... I do have a passion for asu and could have sworn we had more but i understand and unfortunately i have no time for research with all my finals coming up and papers to write and such (hence the fact i shouldnt even be on here right now) but i will say sorry i was only going off what i saw and i assure you i thought i saw more than that but if those are the numbers than i must believe them

Lets call a truce to all this and just cheer the Apps on to their 3rd straight title. Now go smoke those exams!

[AppMan]

Cliff's Notes for this post please:D

Good one! Point made!