Which Teams should leave FBS

[cx500d]

Here's some more insanity. Would be fun just to piss off the f-hawkers
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13726080/MACFINAL.jpg


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13726064/MVCFINAL.jpg




https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/1/31/18200696/fbs-membership-leave-fcs

[F'N Hawks]

Why would that piss us off? See ya.

[cx500d]

Why would that piss us off? See ya.


You dweebs are like the runt of the litter....the red-headed step child...Hot garbage... Wouldn't be fair (or nice) to dump UN_ on the South Dakota teams

[F'N Hawks]

You dweebs are like the runt of the litter....the red-headed step child...Hot garbage... Wouldn't be fair (or nice) to dump UN_ on the South Dakota teams

Sounds good.

[nodak651]

You dweebs are like the runt of the litter....the red-headed step child...Hot garbage... Wouldn't be fair (or nice) to dump UN_ on the South Dakota teams

😢

[katss07]

Awesome. Glad you found a solution. Bye-Bye!

[Professor Chaos]

All smack aside those images do show what a geographic outlier NDSU is in the MAC (and the MWC is even worse). School like JMU and/or Delaware actually fit better into the MAC geographic footprint.

[Thumper 76]

All smack aside those images do show what a geographic outlier NDSU is in the MAC (and the MWC is even worse). School like JMU and/or Delaware actually fit better into the MAC geographic footprint.

There’s basically a one to two state bubble around ndsu of states with no G5 schools, and they aren’t small states. What’s the closes G5 school to Fargo, NIU or Wyoming?

If this were to happen I’d be disappointed to lose the Marker Game, but in the long run wouldn’t be crushed by it. I’m sure we would get plenty of OOC matchups with ndsu in most other sports.


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[Nor Eastern]

I'm not so sure the original article is worth the data it took to load. A snapshot of one year's attendance isn't a good indicator of who should be FBS/FCS.

[TheRevSFA]

NDSU isn’t going FBS any time soon.

[Hammerhead]

Every G5 team should leave the FBS.

[Silenoz]

You dweebs are like the runt of the litter....the red-headed step child...Hot garbage... Wouldn't be fair (or nice) to dump UN_ on the South Dakota teams
And yet for all your success they're still in your head

[UNHWildcat18]

we honestly need
D3->D4
D2->D3,
lower half of FCS and some D2->D2
upper FCS and lower FBS-> FCS
upper G5 and P5-FBS

[UNHWildcat18]

Every G5 team should leave the FBS.

Disagree

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Every G5 team should leave the FBS.

Definitely not!

But even in the AAC a schools like Tulane and UConn would be better served in FCS imo. Likewise with San Jose State and UNLV in the MWC.

[Mattymc727]

Lets just say the MAC were interested, is the travel really that much of a back breaker for a program like NDSU? (G5 talent, resources, facilities)

[TheKingpin28]

Lets just say the MAC were interested, is the travel really that much of a back breaker for a program like NDSU? (G5 talent, resources, facilities)Yes. This would not work well for all but football especially with the sports that lose money. Not having a travel partner is a huge non-starter and Bismarck would never let GFCC be away from NDSU again due to most of the legislative body being from their and there utter disdain for the true flagship school: NDSU. Bismarck will do what it needs to do, to undermine and under fund NDSU at all costs and with having zero geographical semblance, NDSU does not want to be on an island when it comes to Olympic sports. Why do you think they are in the Big 12 and Summit for all sports? It makes geographical sense and limits travel costs due to travel partners scattered throughout the I29/I35 corridor. WIU and IPFW are the only ones who are truly out of location. Denver gets to stay due to needing members remaining for AQ status.

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[Mattymc727]

Yes. This would not work well for all but football especially with the sports that lose money. Not having a travel partner is a huge non-starter and Bismarck would never let GFCC be away from NDSU again due to most of the legislative body being from their and there utter disdain for the true flagship school: NDSU. Bismarck will do what it needs to do, to undermine and under fund NDSU at all costs and with having zero geographical semblance, NDSU does not want to be on an island when it comes to Olympic sports. Why do you think they are in the Big 12 and Summit for all sports? It makes geographical sense and limits travel costs due to travel partners scattered throughout the I29/I35 corridor. WIU and IPFW are the only ones who are truly out of location. Denver gets to stay due to needing members remaining for AQ status.

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What about football only?

[TheKingpin28]

What about football only?If they did football only, NDSU would want SDSU to come (due to the rivalry and proximity) and I think both fanbases would want that, but NDSU will never get to leave GFCC ever again. Bismarck would financially try and cripple NDSU to ensure they were both tied and I know Pierre SD would do the same thing to SDSU when it comes to USeD. So if NDSU wants to move up by themselves, GFCC comes with. If NDSU wants SDSU to join, USeD comes with as well. Barring a miracle, NDSU will never get to pursue options that are beneficial to them (conference affiliation that is) if it does not benefit GFCC as well.

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[nodak651]

If they did football only, NDSU would want SDSU to come (due to the rivalry and proximity) and I think both fanbases would want that, but NDSU will never get to leave GFCC ever again. Bismarck would financially try and cripple NDSU to ensure they were both tied and I know Pierre SD would do the same thing to SDSU when it comes to USeD. So if NDSU wants to move up by themselves, GFCC comes with. If NDSU wants SDSU to join, USeD comes with as well. Barring a miracle, NDSU will never get to pursue options that are beneficial to them (conference affiliation that is) if it does not benefit GFCC as well.

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Would you guys even want to be in that conference without the Dakota schools or UNI? This hypothetical move would remind me of Gopher and Badger fans and how they complain about their loss of regional rivalries when the WCHA broke up (due to the formation of the Big Ten hockey conf). Regional rivalries and knowing people affiliated with teams that you play against make the games a hell of a lot more fun and meaningful.

Edit: Just re read your comment and saw you mentioned SDSU. I think the same would hold true for losing UNI and the other Dakotas. The MAC doesn't have a ton of interesting teams...

[F'N Hawks]

If they did football only, NDSU would want SDSU to come (due to the rivalry and proximity) and I think both fanbases would want that, but NDSU will never get to leave GFCC ever again. Bismarck would financially try and cripple NDSU to ensure they were both tied and I know Pierre SD would do the same thing to SDSU when it comes to USeD. So if NDSU wants to move up by themselves, GFCC comes with. If NDSU wants SDSU to join, USeD comes with as well. Barring a miracle, NDSU will never get to pursue options that are beneficial to them (conference affiliation that is) if it does not benefit GFCC as well.

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You do not have issues.

Personally, I think you are overstating things, like a lot. NDSU can leave for the MAC at any time, Bismarck didn't stop them before and they wouldn't again.

[TheKingpin28]

Would you guys even want to be in that conference without the Dakota schools or UNI? This hypothetical move would remind me of Gopher and Badger fans and how they complain about their loss of regional rivalries when the WCHA broke up (due to the formation of the Big Ten hockey conf). Regional rivalries and knowing people affiliated with teams that you play against make the games a hell of a lot more fun and meaningful.I WAS fine with MVFC before USeD joined. I was less fine when they joined due to an unbalanced schedule. I did not want your school to join though as it ****ed up the scheduling that much more and when Murray State eventually joins (unless Sanford pulls a fast one and pushes for Augustana instead PFL), the East side of the division will have a cakewalk to the playoffs while the West side will be a bloodbath and the renewed call for Summit League Football will be strong. Most Bison fans were happy with your school in the Big Sky where you'd come to Fargo every once in awhile for a beatdown and then we could ignore you again. Now we have to deal with it and I can honestly say I am not happy with it, except for the annual freebie win we get from your school.

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[nodak651]

I WAS fine with MVFC before USeD joined. I was less fine when they joined due to an unbalanced schedule. I did not want your school to join though. Most Bison fans were happy with your school in the Big Sky where you'd come to Fargo every once in awhile for a beatdown and then we could ignore you again. Now we have to deal with it and I can honestly say I am not happy with it.

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Sorry accidentally deleted that quoted post.

The MAC schools as a whole really aren't that much different than UND and USD, except they are FBS in name only, and they aren't a regional rivalry. The UND game in Fargo was and still is the most expensive ticket ever sold at face value by your AD. The UND basketball game is also routinely your best attended basketball game. Bison fans in general want to see NDSU play UND. You and some of the people who post here are outliers.

[TheKingpin28]

You do not have issues.

Personally, I think you are overstating things, like a lot. NDSU can leave for the MAC at any time, Bismarck didn't stop them before and they wouldn't again.Legislative branch would continue to under-fund NDSU even more and over-fund GFCC.

I just wish we could close Williston State and couple other regional colleges as the State of North Dakota does not need 11 schools for a population of 700k.

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[TheKingpin28]

Accidentally deleted my post. The MAC schools as a whole really aren't that much different than UND and USD, except they are FBS in name only, and aren't a regional rivalry. Enjoy.I wouldn't want to go to the MAC. I want the 3 tiers of D1 football to happen and we move to the 2nd tier where we play against the best of the G5/FCS each year and conferences like MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt become the bottom feeders and the AAC, MW, MVFC carry the 2nd tier.

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[F'N Hawks]

Legislative branch would continue to under-fund NDSU even more and over-fund GFCC.

I just wish we could close Williston State and couple other regional colleges as the State of North Dakota does not need 11 schools for a population of 700k.

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True. It's like the legislature is keeping those towns alive through their college funding

[abc123]

Bismarck would never let GFCC be away from NDSU again due to most of the legislative body being from their and there utter disdain for the true flagship school: NDSU. Bismarck will do what it needs to do, to undermine and under fund NDSU at all costs

Get a new talking point. This one is old and worn, not to mention nowhere close to true. I haven't looked at the new legislature make-up that just went into session, but in the previous sessions (when NDSU was supposedly getting undermined xrolleyesx), the amount of legislators with NDSU ties was equal to or slightly higher than those with UND ties. And until the new appointments within the last few months, the SBoHE had more Fargo/NDSU ties than Grand Forks/UND ties. So unless you can actually show something that actually proves someone is undermining and underfunding NDSU, then come up with something new. I mean, they literally just rewrote the funding formula a few years ago so the continued underfunding claim is even more outdated.

[TheKingpin28]

True. It's like the legislature is keeping those towns alive through their college fundingI knew we could agree on something. No reason to have 11 schools open and fully funded. Hell Mayville State needs to go as well.

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[TheKingpin28]

Get a new talking point. This one is old and worn, not to mention nowhere close to true. I haven't looked at the new legislature make-up that just went into session, but in the previous sessions (when NDSU was supposedly getting undermined xrolleyesx), the amount of legislators with NDSU ties was equal to or slightly higher than those with UND ties. And until the new appointments within the last few months, the SBoHE had more Fargo/NDSU ties than Grand Forks/UND ties. So unless you can actually show something that actually proves someone is undermining and underfunding NDSU, then come up with something new. I mean, they literally just rewrote the funding formula a few years ago so the continued underfunding claim is even more outdated.Besides the endowment from the State? If can still be a talking point and true. And here we go again with the drivel. This is why we don't want you in the MVFC. Nothing but **** spewing will occur and I know it will not end well. If only you could have stayed where you belong...in D2.

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[abc123]

Besides the endowment from the State? If can still be a talking point and true. And here we go again with the drivel. This is why we don't want you in the MVFC. Nothing but **** spewing will occur and I know it will not end well. If only you could have stayed where you belong...in D2.

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Can you be more specific on which endowment from the state you are referencing because I'm not exactly sure but I'm very curious.

"Here we go again with the drivel". I suppose it was easier to just take potshots at "GFCC" for no specific reason when no called you out on it.

[nodak651]

Can you be more specific on which endowment from the state you are referencing because I'm not exactly sure but I'm very curious.

"Here we go again with the drivel". I suppose it was easier to just take potshots at "GFCC" for no specific reason when no called you out on it.
It's surprising that community college graduates apparently have so much influence in ND politics that they can screw over NDSU. You would think the flagship would have the law school.



Admittedly, the flagship debate is juvenile and dumb as hell, as is this GFCC shtick.

[abc123]

If can still be a talking point and true.2.


Just for fun, I took a look at the make-up of the 2019/20 ND Legislature. Not going to claim it is exact for a couple reasons, mainly some people who don't disclose their colleges (though some can still be found) and others are members of the respective boosters under business names, but here is a rough count on how it breaks down (included anyone that attended either college or is a member of Teammakers/Champions Club). Of note, there were 4 or 5 who fell under both schools.

Senate
NDSU - 16 out of 47 (34.0%)
UND - 9 out of 47 (19.1%)

House
NDSU - 22 out of 94 (23.4%)
UND - 25 out of 94 (26.6%)

Total
NDSU - 38 out of 141 (27.0%)
UND - 34 out of 141 (24.1%)


So again, your comment about most of the legislative body being from UND is flat out false.

[TheKingpin28]

Just for fun, I took a look at the make-up of the 2019/20 ND Legislature. Not going to claim it is exact for a couple reasons, mainly some people who don't disclose their colleges (though some can still be found) and others are members of the respective boosters under business names, but here is a rough count on how it breaks down (included anyone that attended either college or is a member of Teammakers/Champions Club). Of note, there were 4 or 5 who fell under both schools.

Senate
NDSU - 16 out of 47 (34.0%)
UND - 9 out of 47 (19.1%)

House
NDSU - 22 out of 94 (23.4%)
UND - 25 out of 94 (26.6%)

Total
NDSU - 38 out of 141 (27.0%)
UND - 34 out of 141 (24.1%)


So again, your comment about most of the legislative body being from UND is flat out false.

So you got 72 out of 141 or about 50% of the reported numbers? It's not a flat out lie as you literally took 50% of the reported members. I can tell you support GFCC as you miserably failed at math but succeed in making an incomplete argument.

[F'N Hawks]

So you got 72 out of 141 or about 50% of the reported numbers? It's not a flat out lie as you literally took 50% of the reported members. I can tell you support GFCC as you miserably failed at math but succeed in making an incomplete argument.

Pyscho....

[abc123]

So you got 72 out of 141 or about 50% of the reported numbers? It's not a flat out lie as you literally took 50% of the reported members. I can tell you support GFCC as you miserably failed at math but succeed in making an incomplete argument.

What in the hell are you talking about? I showed the number of members who have an affiliation to either UND or NDSU (through being an alumni or donating money) out of the total members. The remaining members went to college elsewhere (or nowhere) and have no direct affiliation to either school. There were only a handful at most that there isn't information for on and there could be a couple random ones that didn't show up in the donations section, but the combined number of both is likely very immaterial.

Do you think that all 141 members of the legislature are either tied to UND or NDSU?? It isn't shocking that only around half of them have a connection to either school considering there are 11 other schools in the state plus, you know, not everyone attended college in North Dakota or at all.

Again, my point is that your comment about the ND legislature being flooded by people with ties to UND is flat out false.

[TheKingpin28]

What in the hell are you talking about? I showed the number of members who have an affiliation to either UND or NDSU (through being an alumni or donating money) out of the total members. The remaining members went to college elsewhere (or nowhere) and have no direct affiliation to either school. There were only a handful at most that there isn't information for on and there could be a couple random ones that didn't show up in the donations section, but the combined number of both is likely very immaterial.

Do you think that all 141 members of the legislature are either tied to UND or NDSU?? It isn't shocking that only around half of them have a connection to either school considering there are 11 other schools in the state plus, you know, not everyone attended college in North Dakota or at all.

Again, my point is that your comment about the ND legislature being flooded by people with ties to UND is flat out false.No I did not think all of them went there. That would be considered asinine to think that.

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[abc123]

No I did not think all of them went there. That would be considered asinine to think that.

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Your response that I "literally took 50% of the reported members" seems to indicate that. Feel free to clarify what you meant by that along with what "endowment from the State" that UND gets that you brought up earlier. I mean, you're the one who's so sure of this conspiracy, let's discuss it a little and see what truths there are to it.

[TheKingpin28]

Your response that I "literally took 50% of the reported members" seems to indicate that. Feel free to clarify what you meant by that along with what "endowment from the State" that UND gets that you brought up earlier. I mean, you're the one who's so sure of this conspiracy, let's discuss it a little and see what truths there are to it.You do realize GFCC gets 40 million more a year, right? Budgets are set years in advance, right? So when NDSU made cuts for 5 years straight, years I was there, they had no problem but GFCC decided to pull its usual bull**** and ignore the cuts until the last second and what are the rewarded with?

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[abc123]

You do realize GFCC gets 40 million more a year, right? Budgets are set years in advance, right? So when NDSU made cuts for 5 years straight, years I was there, they had no problem but GFCC decided to pull its usual bull**** and ignore the cuts until the last second and what are the rewarded with?

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1. Still waiting to hear about this "endowment from the state" UND gets.
2. Most of the legistlature wasn't and isn't from UND like you claimed, it has been fairly balanced if not tipped in NDSU's favor for at least the last two sessions and likely further back than that since there isn't a ton of turnover, so I'm not exactly sure where this bias is coming from.
3. Budgets are set every 2 years since that is how often the legislature meets. The budgets for 7/1/19 - 6/30/2021 (FY2020 and FY2021) will be approved sometime in May or June, so hardly "years in advance". At most, the second year of the biennium is done slightly over a year in advance while the first year of the biennium is done a few months before.
4. Not sure exactly what cuts UND ignored and NDSU made for 5 straight years, but all campuses were directed to make significant cuts over the last few years after years of nothing but a decade of budgets going up. There was no "ignoring" it. But I'd love to see some examples of these claims you are making.
5. The funding formula was revamped a few years ago. The changes were supported by NDSU. It includes a base rate for students (even the ones that huge amount that NDSU gives out its millions in tuition waivers to) and there are adjustments from there various majors, as some cost more than others. It's a hell of a lot more nuanced than whatever it is you're trying to make it out to be.

[WeAreThePride]

I want to play and beat UND two or three times a year. The sooner we can take over the series lead, the better. Currently it stands at 62-46-3.

[POD Knows]

I want to play and beat UND two or three times a year. The sooner we can take over the series lead, the better. Currently it stands at 62-46-3. I am confused here, isn't NDSU ahead in the series? Are the scores wrong on this site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_Trophy

[Professor Chaos]

I am confused here, isn't NDSU ahead in the series? Are the scores wrong on this site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_Trophy
Yeah, someone got a little frisky with their Wikipedia edits there. Check out page 17 here for the actual scores in the series: https://gobison.com/documents/2015/9/14//20150914_NDSU_FB_Notes_vs_UND.pdf?id=1251

Overall UND leads the series 62 to 46 with 3 ties but since 1965 when NDSU got out of the football dark ages NDSU leads the series 26 to 16.

[POD Knows]

Yeah, someone got a little frisky with their Wikipedia edits there. Check out page 17 here for the actual scores in the series: https://gobison.com/documents/2015/9/14//20150914_NDSU_FB_Notes_vs_UND.pdf?id=1251

Overall UND leads the series 62 to 46 with 3 ties but since 1965 when NDSU got out of the football dark ages NDSU leads the series 26 to 16.Yea, that is what I thought and then I saw this thing in Wikipedia and thought, that can't be right and I was too lazy to cross reference it with anything else.

[Derby City Duke]

I want to play and beat UND two or three times a year. The sooner we can take over the series lead, the better. Currently it stands at 62-46-3.

Who do you think you are, Liberty and New Mexico State?

[GreenGlasses]

NDSU is not leaving their current level anytime soon. They come to the IAA party waaaaay to late. To have been positioned to move to IA NDSU would have had to have moved up to IAA in the late 70s to early 80s, And then move to the WAC in the same time frame that Nevada and Boise moved up in the mid 90s. In the same time frame you also had Marshall, Buffalo, UCF, USF and Troy moving up and a few years later schools like FIU and FAU started football who started in IAA and moved up at or around the same time WKU left the OVC for the Sun Belt.

With the WAC going away and MWC full there is no place for NDSU to go. There is no viable options for them at all even if they wanted to move.