JMU Hires former YSU OC to the Same Position. What Are We Getting

[Derby City Duke]

Shane Montgomery will be the new OC at JMU. He was the OC for YSU when we beat them in Frisco -- we completely stifled their running game and bottled up their offense for 58 minutes.

To my MVFC friends -- what are this guy's strengths and weaknesses?

How will he mesh with Cignetti on the offensive side of the ball?

[clenz]

Garbage

YSUs offense is consistently garbage

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[IBleedYellow]

Oh.

Everyone shat on Messingham when we hired him. Maybe this situation is the same?

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[RootinFerDukes]

Garbage

YSUs offense is consistently garbage

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That’s some deep analysis. Thanks for contributing...

[KPSUL]

He'll likely by tolerant of players with criminal backgrounds. (Did JMU do a background check on him?)

How ironic, NC Charlotte tries to steal your HC, and instead, you end up with their OC! Was he let go by a new Charlotte HC ?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Shane Montgomery will be the new OC at JMU. He was the OC for YSU when we beat them in Frisco -- we completely stifled their running game and bottled up their offense for 58 minutes.

To my MVFC friends -- what are this guy's strengths and weaknesses?

How will he mesh with Cignetti on the offensive side of the ball?
here's his old bio from YSU ... he was there 8 years as OC ... 2010 to 2017. Considering all the Jim Tressel chanpionship years, this tidbit stands out the most. Plus he played under at least 2 different head coaches and they were routinely in playoff contention .. I thought they got screwed out of playoff bids at least twice over this timeframe:

"The top four total offensive seasons in program history (2011, 2016, 2010, 2017) have come with Montgomery as the play caller."

They were a top 2 offense in MVFC from 2010-13, then offensive production slipped to middle of MVFC from 2014 and on ... htat was year MVFC completely dominated FCS. Not exactly "garbage", but did slip some recently. Anyway, nice looking bio. He played QB for NC State .. stats read like he started for 2 years and won 2 bowl games. Below should give you good read.

https://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/coaches/Montgomery_Shane?view=bio

[RootinFerDukes]

He'll likely by tolerant of players with criminal backgrounds. (Did JMU do a background check on him?)

How ironic, NC Charlotte tries to steal your HC, and instead, you end up with their OC! Was he let go by a new Charlotte HC ?

It is ironic but he didn't have a job with Will Healy coming to town. He was looking for a job.

Isn't the criminal background tolerance ultimately on the HC? That would be pouty ole Bo.

[RootinFerDukes]

YSU was just the one team that kept getting grinded in the MVFC play and that ultimately cost them come playoff selection time. Not enough wins to impress the committee, even if quality losses.

[JacksFan40]

YSU plays great defense, but their offense is hot garbage. Maybe his system will work better at JMU, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

[clenz]

There's a ton of spin in that bio - as there would be for any school writing a bio about a coach trying to make them seem as good as possible.

Let's take a closer look at those historically good offenses

2017:
One of the best offenses in YSU history...and...well...
4th in the MVFC in total offense
5th in the MVFC in scoring... three tenths of a point out of 6th but a full touchdown out of 4th.
5th in yards per play
6th in first downs.
6th in RZ scoring offense
8th in passing offense.
9th turnovers in the redzone in the MVFC.
10th in sacks allowed per game at over 3 per game - far and away worst in the MVFC.

That also includes their traditional weakest OOC in the nation. Let's look at MVFC only numbers
5th in pass efficiency
6th in scoring offense
6th in total offense
6th in redzone offense
7th in yards per carry
8th in redzone turnovers
8th in passing offense
10th in sacks allowed - 4.5 allowed per game...9th place was winless Indiana State at 2.5


Maybe not quite as "garbage" as I described it, but man if that is one of the best offenses you can muster and talk about being a historic offense, then...well...um...gross. Remember, that was a "historically good YSU offense".


So there you go JMU fans. He led YSU to historically good offenses - which were still, on average, bottom half of the MVFC

[clenz]

Let's look at 2016...a year in which I watched them hold the ball for 45 minutes against UNI...and score 10 points because they literally couldn't move the ball enough to score and UNI's offense more or less punted on first down as UNI was the worst offense in the league

5th in passing efficiency
7th in scoring
7th in sacks allowed
9th in redzone scoring
9th in passing offense

In MVFC games
4th in YPC - but far and away first in total yards and carries...it's all they did.
5th in total offense
7th in sacks allowed
9th in scoring
9th in pass offense
10th in pass efficiency
10th in RZ scoring

The only thing YSU did well in 2017 and 2016 was finish near the top in total rushing yards, because that's all they did. They had more rushing attempts because they couldn't pass the ball. They were good enough on the ground to mostly make up for a chunk of it. They took 39 seconds between plays and then ran the ball because they knew their offense couldn't score so they just tried to keep the ball away from anyone else. I suppose "it worked" but...remember...that is still considered a historically good offense at YSU.

[clenz]

I will grant 10 and 11 had pretty good offenses, but they had the best QB in their programs history there with Kurt Hess. They also still weren't even the best all around offenses in the league. They were top in a category or two but were probably 2nd or 3rd those years.

It's also worth noting that 2010-2012 is widely considered the single worst stretch in the history of the Gateway/MVFC. I don't think it's a coincidence that YSU's offense got really good at a time the conference took a massive nose dive for a couple years. Remember that in 2010 UNI won the MVFC title, out right, in week 10 with a 7-4 overall record.

Hess's bio

Started all 45 games at quarterback
concluded his YSU career as the school-record holder in:
completions (706)
attempts (1,135)
yards (8,925)
touchdown passes (75)
yards per game (198.4)
200-yard passing games (24)
passer rating (144.96)
TDs responsible for (87)
four-touchdown passing games (six)
total offensive yards (9,459)
total offense per game (210.2)
three-time all-conference selection and three-time first-team academic all-conference honoree
passed for more than 2,000 yards each of his four seasons
in four games against BCS foes (Michigan State twice, Pittsburgh, Penn State) completed 62-of-110 passes (56.3 percent) with six touchdowns and one interception.


So...if you have the next Kurt Hess - or the best QB in your program's history - and are entering some of the conferences most lean years in it's history....you should be good.

If you expect him to actually have to build an offense, get talent into that offense, and create something that is well rounded? Well....hold on to your butts. I think YSU has tried 8 different quarterbacks since the start of the 2016 season. That's not me exaggerating. I think they've had between 6 and 8 different QBs take snaps and start. It's been like the Cleveland Browns...

But remember - YSU wants you to think those are the best years in YSU's offenses history.

[RootinFerDukes]

I do think JMU has more offensive talent up and down the roster than most of those YSU teams had, but the conference was a meat grinder all those years and YSU never beat the better teams consistently.

It does look like most of their FCS losses were close and competitive. They weren’t usually blown out. Is that accurate?

[RootinFerDukes]

Isn’t that exactly what NDSU has done their entire championship run? Get a lead, run run run and try to dominate TOP and keep the other offense off the field?

The big difference for NDSU has been their defenses have kept opponent scoring low when they’re on the field and it’s hard to complain about their strategy when they’re winning.

So YSU tries to do the same thing but because they don’t win more than half the time, we critique the same strategy?

[clenz]

Isn’t that exactly what NDSU has done their entire championship run? Get a lead, run run run and try to dominate TOP and keep the other offense off the field?

The big difference for NDSU has been their defenses have kept opponent scoring low when they’re on the field and it’s hard to complain about their strategy when they’re winning.

So YSU tries to do the same thing but because they don’t win more than half the time, we critique the same strategy?NDSU can pass, they don't have too for 60% of the game.

YSU literally couldn't.

They weren't running to protect a lead. They were running because they finished last in passing efficiency. Because they have up over 4 sacks a game (twice what anyone else did) yet had fewer drop backs than anyone else.


YSU's vaunted offense put up just 21 in a loss to a PFL team.

17 points to an SIU team that gave up over 40 a game.

An offense - that as I pointes out was literally bottom half of the conference in their record setting years.

This year they were 9th in scoring (literally 1 point from being last), scored the fewest TD, 6th in rushing yards, barely hit 4.0 ypc, 9th in pass yards, 9th in percent, 8th in efficiency, 9th in 3rd down conversions and conversion percentage


The only reason their games are close is they sit on the ball. They do nothing except try to make the game as short as they can.


Try to spin all you want because he's now your coach, just as YSU did in his bio. Their offense was bad

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[clenz]

Also yes. We should critique an OC who refuses to pass and can't create an offense that can put up points. We should critique an OC that can't do anything but sit on the clock

ESPECIALLY WHEN HE DIES IT EVEN WHEN BEING BEHIND



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[penguinpower]

I would rather have Montgomery vs the backyard football offense UNI runs. Actually UNI's offense looks exactly like Michigan's garbage offense. Everyone looks slow and stuck in quicksand. Zero team speed at UNI. All they can do is run power plays. I saw it first hand.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I would rather have Montgomery vs the backyard football offense UNI runs. Actually UNI's offense looks exactly like Michigan's garbage offense. Everyone looks slow and stuck in quicksand. Zero team speed at UNI. All they can do is run power plays. I saw it first hand.

Ah come on guys, there's enough suck to go around for both of ya. :)

[clenz]

I would rather have Montgomery vs the backyard football offense UNI runs. Actually UNI's offense looks exactly like Michigan's garbage offense. Everyone looks slow and stuck in quicksand. Zero team speed at UNI. All they can do is run power plays. I saw it first hand.UNIs offense has been bad

Difference is we would never try to spin it as good.

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[penguinpower]

I'm not saying it has been good. It was only good against weak teams. Then it would get shut down when playing a good defense

[Derby City Duke]

Also yes. We should critique an OC who refuses to pass and can't create an offense that can put up points. We should critique an OC that can't do anything but sit on the clock

ESPECIALLY WHEN HE DIES IT EVEN WHEN BEING BEHIND



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That's what I saw in Frisco 2 years ago -- a plodding offense with no sense of urgency/tempo down 21 points in the 2nd half. Didn't seem able to get out of their own way.

[clenz]

That's what I saw in Frisco 2 years ago -- a plodding offense with no sense of urgency/tempo down 21 points in the 2nd half. Didn't seem able to get out of their own way.And honestly, that's as good as they got.

Week 5 or 6 of that year they were dead in the water. They were 4-3 following a low out loss to SDSU the week after the UNI game and were just completely dead.

I'm not missing when I say I watched them UNI at home have 40 min it's of possession and trailed for 59 minutes of the game. UNI had 9 yards of offense on 6 plays the entire second half and YSU won 14-10. Yes. UNI had 2 3 and outs and held the ball for less than 2 minutes total in the second half. YSU scored 7 points in that time and it came with 26 seconds on the clock after UNIs defense had been on the field for 40 minutes

UNIs QB was 3-10 for 44 yards and 30 of them on one play. UNI was 1-11 on third down. UNI averages 3.7 yards per play.

Yet UNI averaged more YPP than YSU did. YsU had 40 min TOP and 254 yards and trailed to a team with 160 yards of offense with 30 seconds left.

YSU 2016 is the ultimate every bounce your way and lightning in a bottle team to run like they did. I've outline them all before but they were a bad team that just caught literally every bounce on fumbles, INT and impossible TD catches.

That's the offense you're going to get.

YSU fans hate me and will argue literally anything I say. I've watched them since 1997 in the Valley. I know their program. I know how bad they really are but record wise look better than they are because they play 2 or 3 NEC and PFL teams every year. Maybe he's better after 1 year at UNCC. Maybe the talent level at JMU is so far a head of YSU ot completely makes up for it.


I doubt it. But we will see

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[RootinFerDukes]

Clenz or YSU fans, do you think YSU is in a recruiting disadvantage in their region of the country and that impacts player talent? Bo seems willing to go after questionable background players in the name of getting the best talent he can, character be damned.

Not only is Youngstown in the heart of Big Ten country, which can often be bigger teams then many NFL teams in those states, but OH has eight FBS programs. A consistent national power in Ohio State, Cincinnati in the AAC and then six different MAC schools.

In bordering states, there are then 5 FBS in MI (2 P5), 3 in PA (2 P5), 2 in WV (1 P5), 3 in KY (2 P5), and 4 in IN (3 P5).

That's 25 FBS in the immediate 400 or so miles? I'm just wondering what is left over to recruit when those programs get their pick first.

[clenz]

They are also in a pretty strong recruiting hotbed. Some of a disadvantage but if you can't beat out the MAC schools for a handful of guys then...well...you deserve those results.

Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Cinci, etc. don't matter for recruiting for YSU really. They aren't targeting the same guys. They aren't much different than Illinois State or WIU or SIU or even UNI in regards to fighting with the MAC, AAC, CUSA for recruits.

UNI beat the MAC schools out for 5 players last week. UNI beat Iowa for 2. Beat Syracuse for 1. Beat K-State out. There's "less" talent around Iowa, western Il, Missouri, etc. to fight with. Sure, less schools, but less population base to recruit from. Also states that are less known for producing a ton of D1 athletes.

If a coaching staff can't identify targets and close deals then they don't deserve to coach players that will help them win games.

They aren't in an ideal recruiting situation, but...not a ton different than most other FCS schools in the non Dakota MVFC, SLC, SoCon, Big South, CAA, etc.

[BisonFan02]

Youngstown is just a weird case......They've had "decent" teams, but it has been on the D side of the ball since NDSU came to the Valley.

NDSU has won 7 in a row now against them...YSU managed a win in the 2011 season.....split games in 1972 and 73....YSU won the first two games in the D1 era in 08 and 09...NDSU won in 2010. 9-4 all time in favor of the Bison.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Like I said in my original post, they were top 2 offense from 2010 to 2013 in MVFC games, then slipped to middle of pack in MVFC from 2014 & beyond .. not bottom, but a middling offense in best conference in FCS. Really struggled at QB, but run game was strong for most part. Against strong run defenses, they would of course struggle with no pass game to keep defenses honest. Pelini too over in 2015.

https://valley-football.org/sports/2017/6/20/FB_0620172909.aspx

2017, they were 2nd in rush yards per game, 3rd in 1st downs per game, 2nd in 3rd down conv %, 2nd in 4th down conversions .. this despite 8th ranked passing yards and 5th ranked passing QBR. Finished 6-5 ... of its 5 losses, lost to 5-7 Pitt by 7, then 3 MVFC playoff teams ... USD by 3, NDSU by 3, UNI by 4.

2016 they were 12-4, 1st in rush yards and last in pass yards, and 4th in total yards in conf play, counting conf games only to eliminate their easy NEC games (and tough FBS games) ... lost in Natty. Impressive considering they had no pass game.

2015, they were 5-6 and middle of road offense finishing right around 5th of 10 MVFC teaams in most categories.

2014, they were 7-5 and again middle of road offense, better running than passing.

2013, they went 8-4 overall and 5-3 in MVFC play; finished 2nd in scoring and 2nd in total yards in MVFC conference games only. So not padding of stats against weak NEC OOC games.

2012, they went 7-4 overall and 4-4 in MVFC; finished 3rd in scoring and 2nd in total yards in MVFC games. 3 of their 4 losses were to playoff teams (NDSU, SDSU, ISUr)

2011, they went 6-5 overall and 4-4 in MVFC: easily finished 1st in scoring and total yards

2010, they went 3-8 overal, 1-7 in MVFC: finished 2nd in scoring and total yards ... defense was terrible this year, and couldn't get off the field.

So like I said originally ... their offense was top 2 in MVFC for 2010-13 and middle of pack for 2014-17 .. 2018 was by far their worst year offensively. Pass game has been pretty anemic since Hess graduated after 2013. But they have kept their run game strong consistently despite weak pass game and poor QB play.

Whether you want to blame OC for bad pass game can be debated, but they continued to run well regardless.

[RootinFerDukes]

2018 saw a big offensive drop off? Well Montgomery left for UNCC in 2018. Could you attribute it to his departure?

It sounds like YSU has lacked a quality QB to offer a competent passing game that would get them over the hump against the MVFC's better teams and defenses. They've lacked that since Hess after 2013? Again. It may boil back to my talent on the roster argument.

[clenz]

2018 saw a big offensive drop off? Well Montgomery left for UNCC in 2018. Could you attribute it to his departure?

It sounds like YSU has lacked a quality QB to offer a competent passing game that would get them over the hump against the MVFC's better teams and defenses. They've lacked that since Hess after 2013? Again. It may boil back to my talent on the roster argument.If you look at the stats it wasn't much of a drop off.

Also, what coach is most responsible for finding a QB to run his system? The OC is typically the #1 guy when it comes to recruiting QBs and making sure they fit into the system.

The talent on the rest of the roster hasn't changed between 2010 and now. That's why their record is almost always between 5-6 and 7-4. It's why they are almost always 4-4 in MVFC play.

He was gifted Hess (who was recruited before he got there) and nothing was done to get another QB in place, develop another QB, or put a system in place to be able to get a QB going.

The dude can't call a game. There were years of complains on him by YSU fans on this forum. Their home forum was a hell of a read during his tenure. You saw it first hand in Frisco. If he was ever asked to do anything except call a run play he was lost. Hell, even when Hess was on campus Hess bailed him out time after time after time with just stupid throws. He had the best QB in program history at his disposal and couldn't get the offense to get them into the playoffs - or beat anyone but the bottom of the conference.

Remember 4thAS said 2017 and 2016 were historically good offensive seasons at YSU...and they were middle of the pack on their best days and completely one dimensional.

That 8-4 team 4thAS wants to point out? They missed the playoffs because they lost the final 3 games of the seasonOOC was Dayton, Morehead State and Duquesne. They won those games 28-10, 67-13 and 59-17. The 3 games they lost to end the year they scored 20, 17 and 13 against UNI, NDSU and SDSU (the final 2 were home games). In those 3 games they had total yard outputs of 305, 302, 213.

Shockingly when they played Dayton, Morehead State and Duquesne they went 440, 718, 410

But yeah...they totally didn't run up stats in the OOC to make their offense look really good. Their offense didn't collapse when it faced a team with even half decent defense.

Even in the MVFC that year they had 2 massive games against ISUr and USD...and then managed less than 300 in 2 games and barely crossed 300 in 2 others.

[Penguin Nation]

My 0.02

I was frankly surprised that JMU would take Montgomery. I don't know what in his record they saw that appealed to them. As was said, Scumbag U does a few things well: controls the local media, recruits convicted gang rapists, and writes great coach bios with cherry-picked info.

When Shane was at YSU from 2010-2014, the Wolf was the HC, and was an aggressive recruiter and an offensive-oriented HC. Without the Wolf, the YSU offense deteriorated (although the D improved...although with mostly Wolf players like Derek Rivers FWIW). The 2016 run was like getting struck by lightening and winning the lottery on the same day....it was a freakish run of luck and incredible bracket placement.

As far as recruiting goes, the NEO population is shrinking, and there are very close MAC schools that offer FCOA schollies, but the Wolf proved good players would still go to Ytown. Bozo, in addition to being a classless scumbag, is a terrible recruiter.

[Redbird 4th & short]

2018 saw a big offensive drop off? Well Montgomery left for UNCC in 2018. Could you attribute it to his departure?

It sounds like YSU has lacked a quality QB to offer a competent passing game that would get them over the hump against the MVFC's better teams and defenses. They've lacked that since Hess after 2013? Again. It may boil back to my talent on the roster argument.
Not really sure what to attribute 2018 drop off to .. overall morale, as much as anything maybe. But yes, that is my general conclusion about YSU offense during this era. I didn't realize the OC left after 2017.

To clarify, my general assessment is based simply on where their total offense, pass offense, and run offense ranked in MVFC conference games only ... this completely levels the playing field in assessing "how good" their offense was relative to rest of conference. So it answers the question, how good was their offense by comparison to rest of conference facing all the same defenses, etc.

Clenz may be right statistically in some cases year over year, but I think relative ranking speaks more directly to question ... were they average, better than average, or worse than average .. implying, compared to rest of conference. So for post-Hess era (2014-17), if their total offense is finishing between 4th and 6th (of 10 teams), while their run offense was usually near top, and their pass offense is middle to bottom .. playing in the top conference is FCS, that says something in my mind .. 2014-16, MVFC was far and away toughest conference. Colonial and Big Sky (to lesser extent) certainly started closing gap in 2016-18 time frame. But for YSU offense to rank around 5th during 2014-16, that says something given the competition level.

[Redbird 4th & short]

If you look at the stats it wasn't much of a drop off.

Also, what coach is most responsible for finding a QB to run his system? The OC is typically the #1 guy when it comes to recruiting QBs and making sure they fit into the system.

The talent on the rest of the roster hasn't changed between 2010 and now. That's why their record is almost always between 5-6 and 7-4. It's why they are almost always 4-4 in MVFC play.

He was gifted Hess (who was recruited before he got there) and nothing was done to get another QB in place, develop another QB, or put a system in place to be able to get a QB going.

The dude can't call a game. There were years of complains on him by YSU fans on this forum. Their home forum was a hell of a read during his tenure. You saw it first hand in Frisco. If he was ever asked to do anything except call a run play he was lost. Hell, even when Hess was on campus Hess bailed him out time after time after time with just stupid throws. He had the best QB in program history at his disposal and couldn't get the offense to get them into the playoffs - or beat anyone but the bottom of the conference.

Remember 4thAS said 2017 and 2016 were historically good offensive seasons at YSU...and they were middle of the pack on their best days and completely one dimensional.

That 8-4 team 4thAS wants to point out? They missed the playoffs because they lost the final 3 games of the seasonOOC was Dayton, Morehead State and Duquesne. They won those games 28-10, 67-13 and 59-17. The 3 games they lost to end the year they scored 20, 17 and 13 against UNI, NDSU and SDSU (the final 2 were home games). In those 3 games they had total yard outputs of 305, 302, 213.

Shockingly when they played Dayton, Morehead State and Duquesne they went 440, 718, 410

But yeah...they totally didn't run up stats in the OOC to make their offense look really good. Their offense didn't collapse when it faced a team with even half decent defense.

Even in the MVFC that year they had 2 massive games against ISUr and USD...and then managed less than 300 in 2 games and barely crossed 300 in 2 others.

I quoted the Bio originally referencing 2016 & 2017 from overall production standpoint - and I have no idea about how this stacks up with Tressell era offenses .. I just referenced his Bio. But I agree, and my other posts referenced this. 2016 and 2017 were "average" years as ar as total offense relative to rest of MVFC. But their run game was still very strong those years, particularly considering they had no pass game. It says something to be able to devised an offensive game plan with little ability to throw a pass .. and take your team to Natty doing so.

EDIT .... And my ranking stats only referenced MVFC conference game results, I purposely excluded OOC results for reason you cited.

To quote Dick Rumsfeld: “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

[RootinFerDukes]

The thing with a run first offense in the caa is that for at least the past half a decade or so, the caa has had some excellent rush defenses. It’s hard every week to put up yards on the ground first and only. You need passing to keep defenses honest.

[Redbird 4th & short]

The thing with a run first offense in the caa is that for at least the past half a decade or so, the caa has had some excellent rush defenses. It’s hard every week to put up yards on the ground first and only. You need passing to keep defenses honest.
certainly helps to have a reliable dual threat QB who can keep run defenses honest with his arm and legs. Not sure about prior HC, but I hear nothing but horror stories about how bad YSU recruitment is every year under Pelini .. not to mention, the culture there has to be somewhat toxic with Pelini in charge. Not sure how that filters down to players .. but watching Pelini react to refs, have to wonder what players, recruits, parents, HS coaches think of sending kids there.