Charlie Manuel Watch Part III

[Marcus Garvey]

Here we go again. That sums up every Phillies season this decade. I like Gillick, and nothing this team has done warrants his being fired. He assembled some good talent that is currently underachieving. That falls on Charlie Manuel.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting a 1-5 start. This is Manuel's 3rd straight 1-5 start as the Phillies manager. What makes these teams so frustrating is that they have the talent to compete. I agree with Jimmy Rollins that the Phils should be the team to beat in the NL East, but they go out and play horribly. In the late 80's, it was easy to put up with those horrible teams because they weren't very good. These current guys are good, but they keep dumbing down their play.

So I'll throw out the first date: May 1st he's gone. Another 11 win April will result in Chalie Manuel being shown the door.

[I Bleed Purple]

I don't think I'd ever want to manage in Philadelphia.

Probably has more classless actions by fans than any other city's fans that I can think of.

That said, I'm always happy when the Phils lose as I'm a Braves fan (unless they're playing someone ahead of the Braves).

Firing Manuel that early pretty much throws the whole season away.

[LeopardFan04]

He sucks, but then again we all knew that. I just looks so freakin' worthless on the bench...

I'm also totally sick of the attitude I hear that "it's only April..." Last time I checked the games now count the same as the rest...

[bluehenbillk]

Here we go again. That sums up every Phillies season this decade. I like Gillick, and nothing this team has done warrants his being fired. He assembled some good talent that is currently underachieving. That falls on Charlie Manuel.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting a 1-5 start. This is Manuel's 3rd straight 1-5 start as the Phillies manager. What makes these teams so frustrating is that they have the talent to compete. I agree with Jimmy Rollins that the Phils should be the team to beat in the NL East, but they go out and play horribly. In the late 80's, it was easy to put up with those horrible teams because they weren't very good. These current guys are good, but they keep dumbing down their play.

So I'll throw out the first date: May 1st he's gone. Another 11 win April will result in Chalie Manuel being shown the door.

Barajas, Werth & Helms....Gillick hasn't done anything to show his ass out the door either? Show both him & Charlie the door.

[Marcus Garvey]

Barajas, Werth & Helms....Gillick hasn't done anything to show his ass out the door either? Show both him & Charlie the door.

It was a very thin free agent market, what do you want? For him to overpay overrated players like J.D. Drew. The Red Sox spent a lot of money to be slightly better than mediocre. The Phils will at least accomplish that at a far cheper price.

[GannonFan]

I don't think I'd ever want to manage in Philadelphia.

Probably has more classless actions by fans than any other city's fans that I can think of.

That said, I'm always happy when the Phils lose as I'm a Braves fan (unless they're playing someone ahead of the Braves).

Firing Manuel that early pretty much throws the whole season away.

Silly throw away comment that everybody always makes regarding Philadelphia, and always from people who aren't from Philadelphia. It's just a cliche anymore that the fans are any worse there than anywhere else - Cleveland fans assault referees with beer bottles and are lionized as fans who really care. New York fans boo Hall of Famers just like the Phils fans booed Mike Schmidt but they are cast as knowledgeable fans. Baltimore fans are categorized as real positive supporters of their team, but they booed Jim Palmer during his career, and that was before Angelos ruined the team. And a Braves fan, geez, do they exist, they never seem to actually turn up for, you know, the games. Philly fans aren't any different than fans in any other city - just another urban myth.

Oh, and Manuel has to go - soon. ;)

[Mr. C]

Not throw away comments at all. Phildelphia has a reputation for having some of the worst fans in the country in terms of behavior. It is well earned. Notice I didn't say the worst. No urban myth about anything. To be talking about firing your coach six games into the season pretty much proves the points I've been making. And if you know anything about Pat Gillick, you would know his track record for producing winners. It takes time to build a baseball team the right way and he seems to be attacking it through building a farm system. Doing the free agency thing doesn't work unless you are the Yankees. You might get a player, or two or three that way, but the best way to win is with home-grown talent. I like what I see when a club starts producing home-grown talent like Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and some of the Phillies' young pitchers. And I still think that Philadelphia is going to be in the thick of the race. You have the best infield in baseball and will for a long time. You have some good starting pitching. That is something to build around. Phillies fans just need to be patient.

On other teams' fans, I have never said anything about New York's knowledgeble fans. They are some of the WORST in the game. How smart can you be when you boo A-Rod almost all of the time, simply one of the best players in MLB history (maybe was the BEST all-around shortstop in history). The Mets fans are not as spoiled as Yankees fans, but close.

Living in the south, I get sick of Braves fans. Few of them know ANYTHING about the history of the team before 1991 and they don't even show up for playoff games. It's more of a social thing to go to games when Atlanta is doing well than it is to actually know what's going on.

Another team with awful fans is San Francisco. Nasty, nasty folks who have NO respect for visiting fans at all. And to boot, they are the only ones in the country who still support Barry Bonds, turning a blind eye to his OBVIOUS drug use.

My memories of multiple games in Cleveland is how nasty the people that work there are. Totally uncooperative and a nasty attitude to boot. Anaheim is another place like that (at least they were before Artie Moreno, haven't been to a game there under Moreno's regime).

I've had the chance to go to games all around the country and you are right. There are good and bad things everywhere.

[GannonFan]

Not throw away comments at all. Phildelphia has a reputation for having some of the worst fans in the country in terms of behavior. It is well earned. Notice I didn't say the worst. No urban myth about anything. To be talking about firing your coach six games into the season pretty much proves the points I've been making. .

Actually, it's not been 6 games, it's been a full two years and 6 games. He's still a remnant of just one more of a litany of bad decisions by the former GM, Ed Wade. Manuel is a nice enough guy, but he was brought in to keep Jim Thome happy and since Thome isn't here anymore, there's little reason to keep Manuel here. He's had difficulty adjusting to the National League game, although one would imagine it's not too difficult to manage where to bat the pitcher and how to manage the bullpen, and he was 2 or 3 months late in terms of putting Howard in the right spot in the lineup last year. Truth be told, Manuel never should have been hired. Jim Leyland was practically begging to be be the coach here but only got a courtesy interview after it was clear that Manuel was going to be the man. Seeing what Leyland did last year with the Tigers only cements Manuel's hire as another Wade folly.

[Ivytalk]

I agree with Marcus Garvey that Uncle Charlie will be gone if he has another crappy April. The guy has no clue about what's going on and, for all the hype about his skills as a batting coach, the Phils are still leaving small cities on the bases every night and can't get that clutch hit. It's like the baseball version of Groundhog Day.xrolleyesx

I also agree with Mr. C that Philly has no monopoly on boorish fans. I'd add Boston to that mix. Teams with friendly and smart fans include St. Louis and Cincinnati.xtwocentsx Does being Midwestern have anything to do with it?

[Mr. C]

I have had very good experiences in St. Louis (the best baseball fans in the country, IMO) and Cincinnati. Marge Schott was sitting down in the stands with the crowd the night I was in Cincinnati. Detroit is another good baseball town. Met some nice people at the Tigers game. Also met some really nice folks at the Colorado Rockies game.

[Mr. C]

Actually, it's not been 6 games, it's been a full two years and 6 games. He's still a remnant of just one more of a litany of bad decisions by the former GM, Ed Wade. Manuel is a nice enough guy, but he was brought in to keep Jim Thome happy and since Thome isn't here anymore, there's little reason to keep Manuel here. He's had difficulty adjusting to the National League game, although one would imagine it's not too difficult to manage where to bat the pitcher and how to manage the bullpen, and he was 2 or 3 months late in terms of putting Howard in the right spot in the lineup last year. Truth be told, Manuel never should have been hired. Jim Leyland was practically begging to be be the coach here but only got a courtesy interview after it was clear that Manuel was going to be the man. Seeing what Leyland did last year with the Tigers only cements Manuel's hire as another Wade folly.
Philadelphia just missed the playoffs last year with what I thought was a flawed team. Manuel just makes a convenient scape goat. If they were going to fire him, they should have done it in the off-season.

[GannonFan]

Philadelphia just missed the playoffs last year with what I thought was a flawed team. Manuel just makes a convenient scape goat. If they were going to fire him, they should have done it in the off-season.

In truth, the manager is almost always a convenient scape-goat in baseball. Of all the sports, baseball is probably the least requiring of a manager. So yes, Manuel's not solely to blame for the slow start - but he's easier to fire and replace (the bench coaches now can step in, for instance) than a wholesale selling off of talent. And yeah, they are flawed, but so is every other team in baseball. This team has had enough talent to make the playoffs for several years now and isn't getting it done. Bowa got the hook because of that and frankly Manuel should as well - I agree he probably should've been gone in the off-season but that doesn't mean it can't happen now.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

In today's game against the Mets, Chucky leaves relief pitcher Geary in to hit and lead off the 8th in a one run game. WTF? xconfusedx

It is not like Geary is some kind of super, slam the door shut relief pitcher. Why have him hit? He is just as bad as the rest of the relief staff.

The Phillies did nothing in the top half of the 8th and Geary proceeded to blow the lead (with an assist from a bases loaded Rollins error).

This team is completely inept right now and the manager IS a contributing factor.

[GannonFan]

So it continues - granted, the bullpen blows, and that's Gillick's fault for not addressing at all during the offseason, but I'm talking about Uncle Charlie's management of the pitching staff here in the blowout loss to the Mets (assuming the score holds up). Cole Hamels goes 6 full innings, giving up 6 hits, 2 ER's, and 7 K's. He has a 5-3 lead heading into the bottom of the lineup and he decides to take Hamels out (not sure of the pitch count) and starts the 7th with Matt Smith, who promptly gets into trouble, gives up and run, and needs to be relieved by Geary to get the last out. Phew, only 5-4, still in this. Of couse, Manuel, being completely unable to navigate the double switch, had put Geary in directly for Smith, who was due up 1st in the top of the 8th. Nevermind that he could've double switched and put Geary in for the 8 hitter, Nunez at 3rd, and had either Dobbs or Helms bat in the 9 spot. So rather than pinch hitting for Geary in a 1 run game in the top of the 8th, he actually lets Geary bat, leading to an easy out and an uneventful 8th. Geary then proceeds to blow up in the bottom of the 8th (helped by a Rollins error) and the Mets go on to put 7 runs across in the inning (Leiber came in eventually to get rocked as well) as the Phils (game over now) lose big 11-5.

This isn't the first time that AL-raised Charlie couldn't understand how to navigate a lineup change - maybe he doesn't realize that a pitcher doesn't have to be in the 9th spot? Hard to tell. The Phils are 1-6 and still have to pitch Eaton in this series. With the Braves playing the Nats the Phils could actually be 7 games out after only playing 9 games. Well, that was a great season - when do the Eagles start training camp again???? xsmhx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Of couse, Manuel, being completely unable to navigate the double switch, had put Geary in directly for Smith, who was due up 1st in the top of the 8th. Nevermind that he could've double switched and put Geary in for the 8 hitter, Nunez at 3rd, and had either Dobbs or Helms bat in the 9 spot.

Great point! If Manuel was so hell bent on keeping Geary in the game, this was the OBVIOUS way to go rather than have him lead off the 8th. THAT IS DUMB BASEBALL!

[Ivytalk]

Charlie Manuel [Firing] Watch = Phiilies Fan Suicide Watchxbangx

[GannonFan]

Great point! If Manuel was so hell bent on keeping Geary in the game, this was the OBVIOUS way to go rather than have him lead off the 8th. THAT IS DUMB BASEBALL!

What's even more grating is how freaking simple it is to manage the game itself - I understand that a manager needs to set the tone for the clubhouse, get the right guys in the game, etc, but the easy part should be controlling the lineup during the game. The double switch is a fairly elementary aspect of the game - I think my 3 year old almost has it figured out by now. My question is what the heck are Davey Lopes and Jimy Williams doing in that dugout letting this happen - besides being the heir apparents, their main job is to stop this buffoon from doing stupid things like he just did. Does no one in that dugout have a clue? Heck, if they can't figure that out then just keep Uncle Charlie and we'll all have a ball as we crash and burn. :( xmadx

[Go...gate]

Here we go again. That sums up every Phillies season this decade. I like Gillick, and nothing this team has done warrants his being fired. He assembled some good talent that is currently underachieving. That falls on Charlie Manuel.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting a 1-5 start. This is Manuel's 3rd straight 1-5 start as the Phillies manager. What makes these teams so frustrating is that they have the talent to compete. I agree with Jimmy Rollins that the Phils should be the team to beat in the NL East, but they go out and play horribly. In the late 80's, it was easy to put up with those horrible teams because they weren't very good. These current guys are good, but they keep dumbing down their play.

So I'll throw out the first date: May 1st he's gone. Another 11 win April will result in Chalie Manuel being shown the door.

I agree. Who will they bring in? I wish Dallas Green were about 10 years younger and Vukovich were still alive.

[Marcus Garvey]

I just thought of something that'd be high comedy. If Charlie can't figure out the Double Switch, I'd love to see him try and explain the "Infield Fly Rule!"

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[ngineer]

What's even more grating is how freaking simple it is to manage the game itself - I understand that a manager needs to set the tone for the clubhouse, get the right guys in the game, etc, but the easy part should be controlling the lineup during the game. The double switch is a fairly elementary aspect of the game - I think my 3 year old almost has it figured out by now. My question is what the heck are Davey Lopes and Jimy Williams doing in that dugout letting this happen - besides being the heir apparents, their main job is to stop this buffoon from doing stupid things like he just did. Does no one in that dugout have a clue? Heck, if they can't figure that out then just keep Uncle Charlie and we'll all have a ball as we crash and burn. :( xmadx

Exactly my thoughts--to quote another 'manager' --his is the 'decider', but still, were Lopes and Williams part of that decision? We have 3 guys in the dugout with managerial 'experience'...too many cooks. What we need is a chef. Phillies have always been run like diner as opposed to a first class restaurant...xcoolx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Phillies are up 3-0 on two walks and a hit batsman with the bases loaded. I think Charlie has resorted to the Morris Buttermaker philosphy of managing - telling his players "Don't swing, just lean into one and take it for the team". :p

http://www.bearssoftball.org/images/buttermaker.jpg

[LeopardFan04]

Phillies are up 3-0 on two walks and a hit batsman with the bases loaded. I think Charlie has resorted to the Morris Buttermaker philosphy of managing - telling his players "Don't swing, just lean into one and take it for the team". :p

http://www.bearssoftball.org/images/buttermaker.jpg


At least Buttermaker was funny...Bad News Bears is one of my favorite movies...


oh well, a win is a win...we gotta take it at this point

[Go...gate]

If the Met pitching stays this way, you will get another easy one this evening.

[appfan2008]

2-6 is not the right way to start nor is your star hitting 200

[Marcus Garvey]

2-6 is not the right way to start nor is your star hitting 200

It seems the Phils start this way every year, hence the pent up anger by the Phillies fans on this board.

[Ivytalk]

Hey Charlie, you worthless POS, when Rowand got called out on that ankle-high fastball, you should've waddled your fat azz out there and gotten tossed for the team!xsmhx

[Reed Rothchild]

They couldn't even field a bunt today.

[GannonFan]

They couldn't even field a bunt today.

No kidding. Gillick gets a little heat for this one. Glavine lays down a bunt twice last night and both times Gillick's acquisition of Wes "Don't Call Me Brooks" Helms just butchers the play and costs the Phillies runs. First time Glavine puts down a good bunt (runners at 1st and 2nd with one out) - Helms only has a play to first which should be routine but he badly short arms the throw to first, it gets by Utley, and a run scores that probably wouldn't have scored. The next bunt, in the 4th, with the Phils up 3-2, was the same situation, but this time Glavine's bunt only goes a foot in front of home so the catcher has an easy play to get the lead runner at 3rd, only Wes Helms, who apparently sucks at playing the Hokey Pokey, takes one step in towards home, and then slips and falls when he takes one step back to get back to the bag. The catcher has no choice but to go to first with it, and then the next batter singles and brings in both runs. That gaffe by Helms cost the Phils one if not both runs, and they go on to lose from there. Ahh, Phillies baseball. xsmhx

[ngineer]

I'd rather see Nunez at 3rd. Playing everyday, I think he can hit .270-.300. Yes, not power, but very good glove. We have enough bats in the lineup that a 'banjo' hitter with a good glove is fine.

[Marcus Garvey]

I'd rather see Nunez at 3rd. Playing everyday, I think he can hit .270-.300. Yes, not power, but very good glove. We have enough bats in the lineup that a 'banjo' hitter with a good glove is fine.

Hell, I'll take .240 for a solid glove on the hot corner. It seems like since Schmidty retired, we've gone through a collection of hacks at third base. Some of the more notable hacks include Dave Hollins and David Bell. I think Placido Palanco would have been a servicable 3rd baseman if the Phillies wanted to try that.

[Ivytalk]

DECREPIT!!! Phillies 0-13 with RISP and had 12 more LOBs. CHARLIE OUT BY 5/1!!! xmadx xflamemadx xbangx xanim_chaix xanim_chaix xasswhipx xasswhipx xspankx xspankx xazzx

[ngineer]

Last night was UFB....Afterward Manuel and Eskin got into it in Manuel's office--everyone could hear 25 yards away...the pot it boiling. I agree. If this doensn't show signs of turning around by end of month he'll be gone.

[Ivytalk]

Last night was UFB....Afterward Manuel and Eskin got into it in Manuel's office--everyone could hear 25 yards away...the pot it boiling. I agree. If this doensn't show signs of turning around by end of month he'll be gone.

If the Phillies lose both games to the woeful Nats tonight and tomorrow, he could be gone by Friday.

The Eskin-Manuel thing was a disgrace. Eskin should be given the Joey Crawford treatment: suspend him, and ban him from the Phillies press conferences. Manuel was unhinged, but Eskin is a punk.

[Go...gate]

If the Phillies lose both games to the woeful Nats tonight and tomorrow, he could be gone by Friday.

The Eskin-Manuel thing was a disgrace. Eskin should be given the Joey Crawford treatment: suspend him, and ban him from the Phillies press conferences. Manuel was unhinged, but Eskin is a punk.

Eskin is a jerk and has been for 25 years.

[Marcus Garvey]

Eskin is a jerk and has been for 25 years.
A jerk who likes like the Burger King!
http://media.phillyburbs.com/2005/09/20/0920kingeskin.jpg

[GannonFan]

Everyone knows that Eskin is a jerk - heck, Charlie's been here for 3 years, that should be pretty obvious even to him by now. But Charlie was just a buffoon last night - having to be held back by other coaches to prevent him from going after Eskin - come on, that's just bush league and that's being generous. Why the heck does he care what Eskin says? Charlie's losing it, if he hasn't lost it already. This team is dysfunctional and right now they are digging themselves a hole so deep they'll be lucky to get out of it. Fire Charlie, don't fire him, I don't think it matters - the issues with this team are deeper than an ineffective, at best, manager.

[gmoney55]

Yea that was a disgrace, everyone here knows what Eskin is all about. I actually kind of agreed with the questioning too, maybe it is time to light a fire under the team. I thought the culture changed when Abreu etc...left last year, but it still seems like a team that accepts losing too easily. I don't mind as a Mets fan though.

I was actually at the game last night at Shea South, but not crazy enough to sit through all the way to the end.

[GannonFan]

I was actually at the game last night at Shea South, but not crazy enough to sit through all the way to the end.

Yup, you can always tell when the Mets are doing well - they actually travel well to Philly for a game. In their off years, you never hear a Let's Go Mets chant. The bandwagon is quite full right now though. :p

[gmoney55]

No need to travel, I'm right here in SJ. I'm not sure how the Phils are any different, they weren't drawing anyone midseason last year when they were struggling.

[Peems]

To blame Manuel is dumb. He's not the one who isn't hitting with RISP. He isnt the one who makes the errors, he's not the one who throws horrible breaking balls to Moises alou. He can take some blame, but the philly players are playing horrible right now. I mean they are looking UP at the Nationals in the standings.

[I Bleed Purple]

Who will be the soon-to-be ex Phillies manager once Manuel is fired?

[Go...gate]

Who will be the soon-to-be ex Phillies manager once Manuel is fired?

How about Dallas Green? He's old, but there is a lot of talent on that club and he will make them work.

[Marcus Garvey]

How about Dallas Green? He's old, but there is a lot of talent on that club and he will make them work.
He's said before he doesn't want it. Dallas Green makes Larry Bowa look like a stoned hippie. If this team thought Bowa was too intense, then Green would be a total disaster.

Most likely Jimmy Williams, since he's their bench coach and has experience as a manager. Art Howe was on their staff for like 2 days in Dec. before he left for a better job. I'd like to see Howe as their manager.

[GannonFan]

How about Dallas Green? He's old, but there is a lot of talent on that club and he will make them work.

Nah, it's either Davey Lopes or Jimy Williams, both current coaches on the Phillies bench. However, I actually don't see Charlie being fired at all this season. There's no way that the Phils front office responds to public pressure (and more importantly pressure from 610 WIP - the local sports talk station) by capitulating and firing him. If they wanted Charlie gone, they would've done so in the off season. Unless Charlie breaks a law or does something momumentally stupid (and it would have to be an off-field incident since he routinely does monumentally stupid things during the games, *cough* no double switches *cough* ) he's here through the end of the year. The Phils are way tight when it comes to money, no way do they pay him to sit at home when they're already paying him to sit in the dugout while his mind (assuming he has one) is stuck at home already.

[ngineer]

A jerk who likes like the Burger King!
http://media.phillyburbs.com/2005/09/20/0920kingeskin.jpg

That comparison to "Burger King" is great! I always thought the Burger King was creepy--now I know why...;)

[foghorn]

Listen to Howeird's version of what happened.http://www.philly.com/philly/multimedia/7083557.html
I think Uncle Charlie would kick that midget's azz.xnodx

[Peems]

The media and coaches/players always get in pissing matches, this is no different.

[blukeys]

How about Dallas Green? He's old, but there is a lot of talent on that club and he will make them work.

Dallas likes attending Delaware football games in the fall too much. xnodx xnodx

Managing the Phillies would mess up his Saturdays and his tailgating opportunities. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[LeopardFan04]

Just a quick Eskin story:

For my 9th (?) birthday my dad took a friend and me to see the Harlem Globetrotters at the Spectrum. During halftime I think it was, Eskin was shooting free throws for charity. He missed everyone out of ten...I hope the charity still got something...

That's all that I have to add, other than if I had my wish I'd make Chollie and Eskin disappear...

[Marcus Garvey]

Just a quick Eskin story:

For my 9th (?) birthday my dad took a friend and me to see the Harlem Globetrotters at the Spectrum. During halftime I think it was, Eskin was shooting free throws for charity. He missed everyone out of ten...I hope the charity still got something...

That's all that I have to add, other than if I had my wish I'd make Chollie and Eskin disappear...

So what you're saying is that Eskin sucks at more than just being a sports journalist. It's nice to see he's got a philosphy that he's sticking with.

[LeopardFan04]

So what you're saying is that Eskin sucks at more than just being a sports journalist. It's nice to see he's got a philosphy that he's sticking with.


Eskin's suckitude knows no bounds...



Speaking of which, at least the Phils found a creative way to lose tonight...

[Ivytalk]

Jamie Moyer saved Uncle Cholly's job today. A reprieve, for at least 24 hours!

[ngineer]

But they almost found a way to throw it away. Ahead 4-1 with no out in the ninth, Nats load the bases. I was driving home from Harrisburg and was just waiting to hear the 'salami' call---which didn't come. 'Flash' Gordon struggled with wildness, but at least they came away with a 4-2 win. Should not have been that close. Again, mucho RISPs...

[Ivytalk]

Uncle Charlie has to salvage at least one of the Reds games, or he's gone.xtwocentsx

[Ivytalk]

I had targeted tomorrow, May 1, as the deadline for Charlie's firing. As the Phils improved their April record to 11-13 from 10-14 last year, he appears to have dodged the bullet.xrolleyesx

[ngineer]

I had targeted tomorrow, May 1, as the deadline for Charlie's firing. As the Phils improved their April record to 11-13 from 10-14 last year, he appears to have dodged the bullet.xrolleyesx

Yes, and I think four of those losses were in extra innings. No question the team is playing a lot better right now, with the big question now bringing stability to the bullpen.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Yes, and I think four of those losses were in extra innings. No question the team is playing a lot better right now, with the big question now bringing stability to the bullpen.

Big three game set starting tonight against the Bravos. I hope they fare better this time around. xthumbsupx

[ngineer]

Big three game set starting tonight against the Bravos. I hope they fare better this time around. xthumbsupx

Bullpen meltdown again. This time Alfonseca. Why didn't Chollie stay with Myers in the 9th?xconfusedx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Phillies have to win tonight with Hamels on the mound to maintain momentum. If they lose tonight, I fear it may be the start of an infamous Phillies losing streak.

[Ivytalk]

Bullpen meltdown again. This time Alfonseca. Why didn't Chollie stay with Myers in the 9th?xconfusedx

Because he's an idiot?xconfusedx :p

Manuel is just one of these hidebound managers who has a 7th-inning guy, an 8th-inning guy, etc. Myers is perfectly capable of pitching a 2-inning save: he's young and strong. Manuel still has faith in Gordon -- inexplicably. And Alfonseca shows eerie similarities to Jose Mesa, from the physique and beard to the flat, "hit me" fastball.xrolleyesx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Because he's an idiot?xconfusedx :p

Manuel is just one of these hidebound managers who has a 7th-inning guy, an 8th-inning guy, etc. Myers is perfectly capable of pitching a 2-inning save: he's young and strong. Manuel still has faith in Gordon -- inexplicably. And Alfonseca shows eerie similarities to Jose Mesa, from the physique and beard to the flat, "hit me" fastball.xrolleyesx

Agree 100% on all points.

[Ivytalk]

Manuel finally got tossed last night...for arguing a bad non-balk call by that fat slob, Country Joe West. Another huge crowd at Turner Field last night: 19,000 cracker crickets chirping!:p

[Marcus Garvey]

Because he's an idiot?xconfusedx :p

Manuel is just one of these hidebound managers who has a 7th-inning guy, an 8th-inning guy, etc. Myers is perfectly capable of pitching a 2-inning save: he's young and strong. Manuel still has faith in Gordon -- inexplicably. And Alfonseca shows eerie similarities to Jose Mesa, from the physique and beard to the flat, "hit me" fastball.xrolleyesx

I blame Tony LaRussa for creating the "1 inning closer." What nobody has bothered to notice is that Eckersley has been the only "1 inning closer" to fill the role effectively over the course of several season. All others seem to burn out after 3, maybe 4 good years. What the hell is wrong with the 2-3 inning "shut down" guy? Goose Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Dan Quisenberry, Rollie Fingers... I'd rather have one of those guys (in their prime) in my bullpen than an Eric Gagne. I think Meyers is capable of pitching like that.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

One again, Charlie could not recognize the benefit of the double switch. With two outs he brought Myers in to finish out the eighth, knowing that Bret was due up to hit second in the bottom half. Myers is obviously going to finish out the ninth, why not double switch? I think GannonFan was right a while ago, with all that time in the American League, Charlie doesn't seem to even recognize this as an option.

[Ivytalk]

Charlie Numb Nutz is at it again. Last night, he again brings Myers into a game in a non-save situation. Myers gets shelled (although a couple of hits were dinks) and, in the process of throwing a wild pitch, hurts his shoulder and walks off the field. Manuel and Barajas got tossed in the process of arguing a "safe" call at the plate which, replays showed, was the correct call. If Brett is out for any extended period of time, the Phils' standing will plummet.xsmhx xsmhx

[GannonFan]

One again, Charlie could not recognize the benefit of the double switch. With two outs he brought Myers in to finish out the eighth, knowing that Bret was due up to hit second in the bottom half. Myers is obviously going to finish out the ninth, why not double switch? I think GannonFan was right a while ago, with all that time in the American League, Charlie doesn't seem to even recognize this as an option.


It's absolutely incredible how often he fails to use the double switch when he should. I mean, it's not that difficult - that part of managing a baseball team is not rocket science here. And again, where are the bench coaches when this happens? It's not like Charlie is all by himself in a noise controlled room where he can't hear anything (or is he????? xlolx ) - why aren't the genuises like Williams or Lopes or the 5 other coaches suggesting the right move? Are they too busy spitting sunflower seeds? I'd be afraid to walk into the Phillies dugout - it's like some kind of brain void - I might become dumber just being around those mental midgets. xlolx

[foghorn]

Barajas should be sent down immediately. His watching that runner slide
safely at the plate with the tying run while he was STANDING STRAIGHT UP was inexcuseable. The runner was a dead duck ! Was he afraid of a collision? With all that equipment on? How punky. No place in baseball for punks! I have no respect for the guy. xsmhx

[ngineer]

What's the word on Myers. I was working late last night and heard on the radio...Is this protracted-DL stuff? Hopefully not, although Gordon is due back soon, I sense he won't be as effective. Maybe Madson can get something going, but if Brett is shut down it's deep doo-doo time..xsmhx

[GannonFan]

Now I know why Charlie never seems to have his bench coaches help him with the double switch - they're morons too. Great call by the 3rd base coach to send Bourne to home last night - he was rounding 3rd by almost the time the catcher got the ball - when a guy as fast as Bourne gets thrown out by 20 feet you have to question the sobriety of the 3rd base coach - I think the Phils need to ban alcohol from the clubhouse - that was atrocious. xsmhx

[Marcus Garvey]

Mathematical Elimination Fever... Catch it!

So, it's obvious that Manuel will not be fired this season. Instead, let's pick the date that the Phillies are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs!

I vote Sept. 8!

[GannonFan]

They'll stretch it out and then tout that they were in it right till the end. I say September 20.

[Ivytalk]

If Myers is healthy: September 15. If Myers is out: August 15!:p xsmhx

[foghorn]

Now I know why Charlie never seems to have his bench coaches help him with the double switch - they're morons too. Great call by the 3rd base coach to send Bourne to home last night - he was rounding 3rd by almost the time the catcher got the ball - when a guy as fast as Bourne gets thrown out by 20 feet you have to question the sobriety of the 3rd base coach - I think the Phils need to ban alcohol from the clubhouse - that was atrocious. xsmhx

What makes it even worse is there were 0 outs at the time! Unless you're 100% sure of scoring, you don't take that chance.xnonox

[GannonFan]

What makes it even worse is there were 0 outs at the time! Unless you're 100% sure of scoring, you don't take that chance.xnonox

So speaks the voice of a sane, sober, and a person with at least one functioning neuron in his brain. I'm not sure any of the Phils coaching staff be considered all 3 of those things. xsmhx

[Ivytalk]

So speaks the voice of a sane, sober, and a person with at least one functioning neuron in his brain. I'm not sure any of the Phils coaching staff be considered all 3 of those things. xsmhx

John Vukovich must be rolling over in his grave.xsmhx

[Marcus Garvey]

Now I know why Art Howe bolted after like 3 days. He probably walked into a meeting, and all the coaches were staring blankly, mouths open, drool running down their chins!
xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Ivytalk]

Now I know why Art Howe bolted after like 3 days. He probably walked into a meeting, and all the coaches were staring blankly, mouths open, drool running down their chins!
xlolx xlolx xlolx

"Igor, hand me the lineup card!"xnutsx

[Marcus Garvey]

"Igor, hand me the lineup card!"xnutsx

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

Holy *****... I'm still laughing as a type this. Do you think Charlie was the end result of the "experiment?"

[LeopardFan04]

"Igor, hand me the lineup card!"xnutsx




xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[bluehenbillk]

What's it say about ownership's commitment to winning when Joe Torre & Charlie Manuel have their teams at the same record & The Phils are as happy as pigs in **** with Charlie, but yet Torre's job is on the line....

[Ivytalk]

xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox xlmaox

Holy *****... I'm still laughing as a type this. Do you think Charlie was the end result of the "experiment?"

I think Charlie was Dr. Frankenstein's last reject!xrolleyesx

[ngineer]

Hey, don't look now but the Phils have surfaced for the first time this year with another win over the Braves. Utley and Victorino leading the way.

[foghorn]

How about Bourn beating out a bunt, stealing second and scoring on a single. That's small ball at its best.xnodx

[Dukie95]

Nice work Phillies!

[Go...gate]

They are starting to get it together and Atlanta is slipping a bit....

[dbackjon]

They are starting to get it together and Atlanta is slipping a bit....

ATL is no longer in first for the Wild Card.

[ngineer]

Howard announced his return today with two monster mashes against the Braves to lead a 13-6 Phillies victory. First sweep of the Braves in Atlanta since 1986 (though I also heard it reported as 1995). Either way, big momentum for returning home. Now if they can only get the bullpen settled.

[dbackjon]

Dbacks come to town Tomorrow, hot off a four game sweep of the Astros.

[Go...gate]

I think the Phillies are ready to make a run at the Mets...

[dbackjon]

Dbacks open with two-run homer in first.

[dbackjon]

Howard hits bomb in 7th, 3-1 Dbacks.

[dbackjon]

Dbacks survive wild ninth, win 5-4

[ngineer]

Garcia now 1-4..Actually didn't pitch too badly tonight..HR in the first really hurt, but he pitched 7 innings tonight and was in the game. But he doesn't seem to have been the big 'stud' I was expecting.

[Ivytalk]

Some folks have questioned Uncle Cholly's decision to let Garcia bat in the 5th with the bases loaded, but it was only 3-0 at that point and Garcia wasn't pitching badly. Bringing a rusty Madson in to a close game in the 9th was a more questionable decision.xtwocentsx

[GannonFan]

Some folks have questioned Uncle Cholly's decision to let Garcia bat in the 5th with the bases loaded, but it was only 3-0 at that point and Garcia wasn't pitching badly. Bringing a rusty Madson in to a close game in the 9th was a more questionable decision.xtwocentsx

I agree - you don't take Garcia out there. You have to assume your offense will get going eventually. If he was not pitching well up to that point then taking him out would be justified, but you have to think long term picture - you can't have your bullpen repeatedly pitch 4 innings every game or they'll be gassed before August. If a starting pitcher can continue, and it's still that early in the game, you swallow some offense to let him continue.

[bluehenbillk]

Take Garcia out in the 5th & put in who? Everyone knows Manuel isn't the best manager, maybe not even a good one but if you ask that question then you just aren't paying attention to the Phils. Christ, Madson couldn't even pitch one inning and people want 4 innings out of our pen? Pay attention people.

[Marcus Garvey]

Some folks have questioned Uncle Cholly's decision to let Garcia bat in the 5th with the bases loaded, but it was only 3-0 at that point and Garcia wasn't pitching badly. Bringing a rusty Madson in to a close game in the 9th was a more questionable decision.xtwocentsx

For once, I'm going to defend Cholly's moves. Leaving Garcia in during the 5th was smart, because the bullpen is like kerosene. He was also correct in taking him out for the 9th inning. Freddy's pitch count was 113. He's not exactly been burning innings for them this year, so the 9th was a good time to take hime out. While the bullpen is shaky, no point risking injury for Garcia.
I'm primarily pissed at Madson. That was the type of loss that makes you want to go home and kick the dog.

[Ivytalk]

That was the type of loss that makes you want to go home and kick the dog.

Or nuke the cat!xnodx :p

[ngineer]

Yes a frustrating loss, but so long as they can come back to win the series, then the overall play of winning one series at a time is on track. I really thought Barajas was going to redeem himself there in the 9th from his debacle in Florida...xsmhx

[bluehenbillk]

I really thought Barajas was going to redeem himself there in the 9th from his debacle in Florida

How many beers had you downed when that crossed your mind?

[GannonFan]

How many beers had you downed when that crossed your mind?

I actually thought the ball had a chance when he hit it - of course, I had no faith in him when I saw him running in from the pen to get ready - has there been a worse pickup by the Phils than Barajas this year???

[bluehenbillk]

Wes Helms ain't exactly tearing it up either. How many other MLB teams can tout that their opening day starter is homerless still? Playing in CBP much less....

[GannonFan]

Wes Helms ain't exactly tearing it up either. How many other MLB teams can tout that their opening day starter is homerless still? Playing in CBP much less....

Actually, Barajas and Helms will have to compete with Alfonseca and Rosario for the bust pickup of the year - they're all pretty neck and neck right now. On the bright side, Dobbs was a nice little find. xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Actually, Barajas and Helms will have to compete with Alfonseca and Rosario for the bust pickup of the year - they're all pretty neck and neck right now. On the bright side, Dobbs was a nice little find. xthumbsupx

My son and I have taken to calling him "Coach Dobbs" after the Randy Quaid SNL character!:D

[Ivytalk]

Actually, Barajas and Helms will have to compete with Alfonseca and Rosario for the bust pickup of the year - they're all pretty neck and neck right now.

In the olden days, there was Mordecai "Three Fingers" Brown. Nowadays, we have "Six Fingers" Alfonseca!:p

[GannonFan]

In the olden days, there was Mordecai "Three Fingers" Brown. Nowadays, we have "Six Fingers" Alfonseca!:p

Which just amounts to the idea that on a per digit measure, he's probably the least effective pitcher the Phils have! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[ngineer]

Which just amounts to the idea that on a per digit measure, he's probably the least effective pitcher the Phils have! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

That probably explains everything in why we've gotten the 'fickle finger of fate' this year--it's out in the bullpen.

[dbackjon]

5 unearned, two out runs so far for the Dbacks in the 8th...

[ngineer]

All the momentum from Atlanta down the drain...2 for 11 with RISP.

[dbackjon]

Another good game for the Snakes.

AARP pitching match tomorrow.

[Ivytalk]

Another good game for the Snakes.

AARP pitching match tomorrow.

The Phillies looked like a bunch of sixth graders last night. And why did Manuel bring the infield in with that banjo-hitting catcher up?xconfusedx xsmhx

[AZGrizFan]

The Phillies looked like a bunch of sixth graders last night. And why did Manuel bring the infield in with that banjo-hitting catcher up?xconfusedx xsmhx

I don't know, but they DID look like the Bad News Bears.....VERY entertaining to watch! xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx Manuel looks completely lost in the dugout..... xcoffeex

And expect Utley to get one in the ribs from RJ tonight in retribution for his cheap shot on the slide into third....

[Ivytalk]

I don't know, but they DID look like the Bad News Bears.....VERY entertaining to watch! xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx Manuel looks completely lost in the dugout..... xcoffeex

And expect Utley to get one in the ribs from RJ tonight in retribution for his cheap shot on the slide into third....

Uncle Cholly hangs on the railing like an albino orangutan.

[dbackjon]

SWEEP!!!

Laughed when the Philly crowd boo'd Manuel when he lifted Moyer.

[Ivytalk]

SWEEP!!!

Laughed when the Philly crowd boo'd Manuel when he lifted Moyer.


You think that was loud? Wait'll they lose a few more...xwhistlex

[ngineer]

I've revived this thread after today's debacle/fiasco which I attended first hand. Second largest crowd in CBP's short history and got a great show from Adam Eaton--Seventh inning Tigers lead off with two hits--okay, Phils are leading 3-1, and Eaton just threw his 100th pitch, but that's not like ton--I mean these guys are pros--they should be able to do 150--hell they only pitch in 5 man rotations now, too! I would have given him a shot to work his way out--instead he yanks Eaton and goes with Geary who promptly gives up a hit to make it 3-2. Out pops Uncle Chollie and in comes Zagursky--who gets the next guy out. Great. BUT WAIT--Uncle CHollie hops out again, but no means can we let a lefty stay in against a right handed batter--he takes out Zagursky for Yoel Hernandez who promptly throws gas on the fire and before you know it it is 6-3, Tigers.
The fans around me were all going nuts, this has got to stop. A chimpanzee can manage like that., and they'd save alot of money (with slight credit for bananas). I don't care the PHils are still in contention--they're doing it IN SPITE of the idiots running this show...Did I also tell you I'm upset by what I saw today?xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx

[Ivytalk]

Even Eaton said he still had "gas in the tank" and was disappointed to come out. Uncle Cholly lost that game all by himself.xsmhx xsmhx

At least Ruiz got the crowd fired up in the late innings! I like him more and more. He could be a fine catcher for years to come.

[foghorn]

I've revived this thread after today's debacle/fiasco which I attended first hand. Second largest crowd in CBP's short history and got a great show from Adam Eaton--Seventh inning Tigers lead off with two hits--okay, Phils are leading 3-1, and Eaton just threw his 100th pitch, but that's not like ton--I mean these guys are pros--they should be able to do 150--hell they only pitch in 5 man rotations now, too! I would have given him a shot to work his way out--instead he yanks Eaton and goes with Geary who promptly gives up a hit to make it 3-2. Out pops Uncle Chollie and in comes Zagursky--who gets the next guy out. Great. BUT WAIT--Uncle CHollie hops out again, but no means can we let a lefty stay in against a right handed batter--he takes out Zagursky for Yoel Hernandez who promptly throws gas on the fire and before you know it it is 6-3, Tigers.
The fans around me were all going nuts, this has got to stop. A chimpanzee can manage like that., and they'd save alot of money (with slight credit for bananas). I don't care the PHils are still in contention--they're doing it IN SPITE of the idiots running this show...Did I also tell you I'm upset by what I saw today?xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx

Just to add to Uncle Chollie's thinking (or lack of), Polanco is hitting .356 against RHP's and .290 against LHP's. Zagurski is a LPH who throws strikes. Why in the he!! replace him with a nervous, rookie, RHP in a crucial situation? xeyebrowx

[Ivytalk]

Uncle Cholly is back at it again. His decision to let Moyer (who obviously had nothing last night) bat with runners on and behind 6-1 is absolutely inexplicable.xsmhx

We're back to .500 and falling!xrolleyesx

[bluehenbillk]

True, but maybe he was thinking ahead to tonight when they roll a stiff out to the mound and was trying to save his bullpen from an extra inning or two.

[Marcus Garvey]

I'm done with the Phils for the rest of this year. I'm just too busy to waste time paying too much attention to a bunch of underachievers.
I'll tune back in during the offseason when the front office botches the hiring process for the new manager (yet again!).

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I'm done with the Phils for the rest of this year. I'm just too busy to waste time paying too much attention to a bunch of underachievers.
I'll tune back in during the offseason when the front office botches the hiring process for the new manager (yet again!).

They'll tease you back in at some point. xnodx

They'll go on a win streak and challenge the Mets. We'll all be watching every game, hanging on every pitch and in the end they will miss the playoffs by a game or three. :)

[Ivytalk]

I'm done with the Phils for the rest of this year. I'm just too busy to waste time paying too much attention to a bunch of underachievers.
I'll tune back in during the offseason when the front office botches the hiring process for the new manager (yet again!).

Chikkenshat!:p

See you at the inaugural game of the Jimy Williams administration!:p

[ngineer]

The way the NL East is going 4 or 5 games over .500 might win. When you think of the horrible staff the Phils have right now, some people are talking of Manuel as 'Coach of the Year'!:D With Moyer hitting his second half swoon early, this could get real ugly without more starting help.

[Marcus Garvey]

Chikkenshat!:p

See you at the inaugural game of the Jimy Williams administration!:p

xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx

F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K!

I forgot he's on their coaching staff. He only looks brilliant next to Charlie Manuel. I think he joined the Phillies staff for precisely that reason. Pretty much the baseball equivalent of a hot chick going to the clubs with her fat friend.

[LeopardFan04]

xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx xbangx

F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K! F--K!

I forgot he's on their coaching staff. He only looks brilliant next to Charlie Manuel. I think he joined the Phillies staff for precisely that reason. Pretty much the baseball equivalent of a hot chick going to the clubs with her fat friend.



xlolx xlolx xlolx