Big South 2019 & beyond

[Bucs2016]

I havent kept up as much this season so would appreciate updates. Where is Big South football headed? The league had a pretty nice little run from 2013-2017 with Coastal, CSU, Liberty being pretty good and even the others all being really competitive vs more established teams like in the SoCon. But obviously CCU and Liberty are gone, CSU imploded and now what?

Well as expected Kennesaw has soared to being a legitimate playoff caliber FCS team. I think North Alabama will too. CSU has the NCAA problems that look bad, but really not as bad as it sounds and the new AD can make a great HC hire to rebuild there. PC is gone. GWU and Campbell appear to be steady. Monmouth also.

Anyone who has kept up, any others coming into the league?

Currently I think the BSCs biggest problem is its a patchwork league of teams who dont really have a connection or past against each other. Coastal and CSU were so close together and Liberty was an original team in that league.

Now there no real rivalries. No real regional consistency. Feels like the XFL of college football at times.

[dbackjon]

It is funny when someone from the East talks about spread out/not regional.

NC, SC and GA combined are only slight larger than Montana alone
Add Alabama and Virginia and you are just slightly larger than Montana and Idaho.
Add Penn and NJ (to get to Monmouth) and that is considerably smaller than Montana/Idaho/Utah.

[Go...gate]

I still believe Monmouth may one day be in the Patriot League for football. IMO, it would be a win-win for Monmouth and the PL.

[RichH2]

I still believe Monmouth may one day be in the Patriot League for football. IMO, it would be a win-win for Monmouth and the PL.

Think its just the 2 of us in favor of MU. Since we took Loyola and BU, I dont see any reason to demean MU. Heck, Lehigh guy is President.

[Bucs2016]

It is funny when someone from the East talks about spread out/not regional.

NC, SC and GA combined are only slight larger than Montana alone
Add Alabama and Virginia and you are just slightly larger than Montana and Idaho.
Add Penn and NJ (to get to Monmouth) and that is considerably smaller than Montana/Idaho/Utah.

When I say geographic inconsistency I mean just that the teams are grouped in with no rhyme or reason. Its not the same as a conference with lots of large state school like Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, etc. Or the SoCon with their historic ties to each other.

Its so random. Monmouth. CSU. Kennessaw. North Alabama. The rest....just such a patchwork of teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

Kennesaw State's contract with the Big South expires in 2019 for football. I would not be surprised at all if they tried to get into the Socon. It's more in line with the Socon and KSU's mid to long term interest.

Next year, the Big South will have 8 teams: KSU, Hampton, PC, Gardner Webb, CSU, North Alabama, Campbell, and Monmouth. That will be the biggest the conference has been, probably ever.

However, PC will leave after next season. There's a long history of teams in the Big South competing in that conference while in transition from D2 only to move on to the Socon or another regionally appropriate conference (Elon, Stony Brook). The conference is pretty much a revolving door and the full time members are the ones who will suffer from it (GW, Campbell, CSU and Hampton). The Big South is primarily a basketball conference. There's little incentive for KSU, North Alabama and Monmouth (football partners) to stick around for the long term. If you're there for the football partnership and the football sucks, why stay? The A Sun doesn't have a football conference, so being a football partner in the Socon or OVC wouldn't be terrible. If football only partnership isn't an option, the worst case scenario you move to said conference full time. It would be a lateral step at worst compared to the A-Sun and Big South. I don't know much about the A-Sun/OVC but the Southern Conference is a better football and basketball conference this year than the Big South. Monmouth will join the Patriot League or CAA at the first opportunity IMO (better geographic fit).

If you're KSU and or North Alabama, you're serious about building a winning football program and you're just not going to do that in the Big South. Yes, they can regularly beat teams only slightly above D2 by 30 every week, but that's not helpful for boosting attendance because it makes the games boring (just look at their current numbers and how at NDSU playoff attendance is supposedly down), which is bad for any sort of profitability or long-term planning.

KSU and North Alabama staying in the Big South would be the best thing for the Big South, but for KSU at this point it's possible if not likely a ceiling. So i think KSU will only stay in the Big South if the OVC or Socon doesn't let them join their conference. North Alabama will probably run the Socon in 2-4 years and be in a similar situation as Kennesaw State now.

[walliver]

Kennesaw State's contract with the Big South expires in 2019 for football. I would not be surprised at all if they tried to get into the Socon. It's more in line with the Socon and KSU's mid to long term interest.

Next year, the Big South will have 8 teams: KSU, Hampton, PC, Gardner Webb, CSU, North Alabama, Campbell, and Monmouth. That will be the biggest the conference has been, probably ever.

However, PC will leave after next season. There's a long history of teams in the Big South competing in that conference while in transition from D2 only to move on to the Socon or another regionally appropriate conference (Elon, Stony Brook). The conference is pretty much a revolving door and the full time members are the ones who will suffer from it (GW, Campbell, CSU and Hampton). The Big South is primarily a basketball conference. There's little incentive for KSU, North Alabama and Monmouth (football partners) to stick around for the long term. If you're there for the football partnership and the football sucks, why stay? The A Sun doesn't have a football conference, so being a football partner in the Socon or OVC wouldn't be terrible. If football only partnership isn't an option, the worst case scenario you move to said conference full time. It would be a lateral step at worst compared to the A-Sun and Big South. I don't know much about the A-Sun/OVC but the Southern Conference is a better football and basketball conference this year than the Big South. Monmouth will join the Patriot League or CAA at the first opportunity IMO (better geographic fit).

If you're KSU and or North Alabama, you're serious about building a winning football program and you're just not going to do that in the Big South. Yes, they can regularly beat teams only slightly above D2 by 30 every week, but that's not helpful for boosting attendance because it makes the games boring (just look at their current numbers and how at NDSU playoff attendance is supposedly down), which is bad for any sort of profitability or long-term planning.

KSU and North Alabama staying in the Big South would be the best thing for the Big South, but for KSU at this point it's possible if not likely a ceiling. So i think KSU will only stay in the Big South if the OVC or Socon doesn't let them join their conference. North Alabama will probably run the Socon in 2-4 years and be in a similar situation as Kennesaw State now.

I assume you meant Big South. I doubt UNA gets into the SoCon any time soon unless there is massive realignment in FCS football.

As for KSU being invited to the SoCon, I suspect someone else would have to leave first. 9 football teams has been the magic number for 20+ years, and I don't see that changing. Maybe VMI goes to the Pioneer, but I've heard no rumbling about that. Chatty could bolt for the OVC, but in the current SoCon alignment, the Mocs aren't really a geographic outlier. Every 10 years or so, there is talk of Furman and the Citadel going to the CAA. It's unlikely the CAA would want two teams in Charleston. FU might want to join Elon, but travel costs in the CAA would make it less attractive - at least until the CAA football conference splits.

For KSU, at least intermediate term, their best bet is to seek full-time Big South membership. They don't have significant chances for FBS unless Georgia State moves to C-USA (C-USA loves "markets").

If the SoCon did decide to expand beyond 9, a bad idea in my opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if Campbell were invited along with KSU.

[DFW HOYA]

What are the long term plans of Hampton?

[citdog]

The little South is terrible. It's Kennesaw and the rest. The Citadel could have scored 80 on ladson southern this year.

[Bucs2016]

Kennesaw State's contract with the Big South expires in 2019 for football. I would not be surprised at all if they tried to get into the Socon. It's more in line with the Socon and KSU's mid to long term interest.

Next year, the Big South will have 8 teams: KSU, Hampton, PC, Gardner Webb, CSU, North Alabama, Campbell, and Monmouth. That will be the biggest the conference has been, probably ever.

However, PC will leave after next season. There's a long history of teams in the Big South competing in that conference while in transition from D2 only to move on to the Socon or another regionally appropriate conference (Elon, Stony Brook). The conference is pretty much a revolving door and the full time members are the ones who will suffer from it (GW, Campbell, CSU and Hampton). The Big South is primarily a basketball conference. There's little incentive for KSU, North Alabama and Monmouth (football partners) to stick around for the long term. If you're there for the football partnership and the football sucks, why stay? The A Sun doesn't have a football conference, so being a football partner in the Socon or OVC wouldn't be terrible. If football only partnership isn't an option, the worst case scenario you move to said conference full time. It would be a lateral step at worst compared to the A-Sun and Big South. I don't know much about the A-Sun/OVC but the Southern Conference is a better football and basketball conference this year than the Big South. Monmouth will join the Patriot League or CAA at the first opportunity IMO (better geographic fit).

If you're KSU and or North Alabama, you're serious about building a winning football program and you're just not going to do that in the Big South. Yes, they can regularly beat teams only slightly above D2 by 30 every week, but that's not helpful for boosting attendance because it makes the games boring (just look at their current numbers and how at NDSU playoff attendance is supposedly down), which is bad for any sort of profitability or long-term planning.

KSU and North Alabama staying in the Big South would be the best thing for the Big South, but for KSU at this point it's possible if not likely a ceiling. So i think KSU will only stay in the Big South if the OVC or Socon doesn't let them join their conference. North Alabama will probably run the Socon in 2-4 years and be in a similar situation as Kennesaw State now.


Why do you say they cant build a winning program in the Big South? Coastal and Stony Brook did it. Charleston Southern did it for a few years around 05/06 and 13-16. Obviously now Kennessaw has by becoming a legitimate top 10 team in just a few years. In fact 3 different Big South teams have been ranked in the top 8 nationally at some point in the last 3 years (Coastal, Kennesaw, CSU).

You can be a solod playoff caliber team in the Big South. Im just wondering about the cohesion of the league.


That said....this particular season was basically Kennessaw bullying everyone haha

[Gangtackle11]

Think its just the 2 of us in favor of MU. Since we took Loyola and BU, I dont see any reason to demean MU. Heck, Lehigh guy is President.

Dont worry Nova football will be coming to the Patriot League soon enough. Talley is gone. He was the holdout. Give it time. xpeacex

[citdog]

Why do you say they cant build a winning program in the Big South? Coastal and Stony Brook did it. Charleston Southern did it for a few years around 05/06 and 13-16. Obviously now Kennessaw has by becoming a legitimate top 10 team in just a few years. In fact 3 different Big South teams have been ranked in the top 8 nationally at some point in the last 3 years (Coastal, Kennesaw, CSU).

You can be a solod playoff caliber team in the Big South. Im just wondering about the cohesion of the league.


That said....this particular season was basically Kennessaw bullying everyone haha

ladson southern couldn't win without cheating.

[ElCid]

Why do you say they cant build a winning program in the Big South? Coastal and Stony Brook did it. Charleston Southern did it for a few years around 05/06 and 13-16. Obviously now Kennessaw has by becoming a legitimate top 10 team in just a few years. In fact 3 different Big South teams have been ranked in the top 8 nationally at some point in the last 3 years (Coastal, Kennesaw, CSU).

You can be a solod playoff caliber team in the Big South. Im just wondering about the cohesion of the league.


That said....this particular season was basically Kennessaw bullying everyone haha


I think he was taking about "long term" and not a just a couple seasons here and there. SB wasn't there long enough for it to matter. CSU hasn't done it long term. CCU did, but like KSU, they were the king of the hill and it is more due to them rather than the BS which only gave them easy Ws. ANd their success really didn;t solidify until after 2010, and then they left. Not sure they could have maintained it "long term." And now that they have left, they are likely to be in the FBS dregs for years. And if KSU leaves for where ever, it will just solidify the BS label as a transition conf.

You guys need to establish some stability for sure.

[UNAPride]

I'm enjoying UNA's early experience in the ASUN. Having Lipscomb nearby and teams with decently active fan bases like Liberty and FGCU, it's been pretty cool so far! I mention that because, for all our other sports, I prefer our new ASUN foes over SoCon, OVC, etc. We have Jax State on the football schedule for the next four years (and playing them twice in men's hoops) so that and a full Big South schedule should be great for us for a while. We're still just getting settled into things.

I'm thankful for the affiliate relationship with the Big South for football, for sure. I also heard a rumor that the ASUN was looking to work out an affiliate deal with the Sun Belt for Liberty and have the option of FBS football for other conference members.

That would certainly make the ASUN a very unique conference (and, thus, very attractive to some) possibly drawing from those other mentioned conferences to the ASUN instead of vice versa.

[Bucs2016]

I think he was taking about "long term" and not a just a couple seasons here and there. SB wasn't there long enough for it to matter. CSU hasn't done it long term. CCU did, but like KSU, they were the king of the hill and it is more due to them rather than the BS which only gave them easy Ws. ANd their success really didn;t solidify until after 2010, and then they left. Not sure they could have maintained it "long term." And now that they have left, they are likely to be in the FBS dregs for years. And if KSU leaves for where ever, it will just solidify the BS label as a transition conf.

You guys need to establish some stability for sure.

All good points. I think at the FCS level, the conference doesnt matter nearly as much with regards to building a playoff contending team just because the money isnt as vast like FBS where being SEC or Big10 is a huge advantage over being CUSA or even Big12.

In FCS if you have a strong region to recruit and any other draw like location you can recruit well regardless of conference.

Definitely need stability though. It is seen as a transition conference which can be good at times

[Reign of Terrier]

My point about long term sustainable success had more to do with the fact that few teams are invested enough in their program for long term success, or at least that's the case for much of the conference. And the ones that are invested almost immediately look elsewhere.

Charleston Southern, Campbell and Monmouth clearly want to be good programs as their administrators have tried to improve the programs in recent years. Allegedly, Hampton and Gardner Webb do as well even though they have 0 success.

But if you're Kennesaw, you're the only one of these teams that has commitment and success, do you want to wager it on this conference or on a proven one like the Socon or OVC?

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[Bucs2016]

My point about long term sustainable success had more to do with the fact that few teams are invested enough in their program for long term success, or at least that's the case for much of the conference. And the ones that are invested almost immediately look elsewhere.

Charleston Southern, Campbell and Monmouth clearly want to be good programs as their administrators have tried to improve the programs in recent years. Allegedly, Hampton and Gardner Webb do as well even though they have 0 success.

But if you're Kennesaw, you're the only one of these teams that has commitment and success, do you want to wager it on this conference or on a proven one like the Socon or OVC?

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Yeah CSU is making investment slowly but surely. Campbell is gonna be solid along with Monmouth. GWU is a tricky one. They had a good bit of success in D2, and if you look at their games they’re fairly competitive with SoCon teams they play, win their share. But some reason (recruiting to a middle of nowhere campus) they havent gotten over the hump.

I think the biggest problem the Big South has is a severe lack of rivalries. Kids enjoy that stuff. Citadel vs VMI, Furman vs Wofford (I think thats one), App vs GSU when they were FCS, those are fun. We have NO rivalries at all. Coastal/CSU/Liberty was becoming a nice 3 way one for a bit but thats gone. Kennessaw has no natural rival in the league.

An example is Presbyterian. Their D2 rivalry with Newberry was among the best small school gameday atmospheres around and PC moved up and it ended. Kids wanted to play in games like that. PC vs Kennesaw or Monmouth just wasnt the same.

Thats one reason we want The Citadel on our schedule. We need games that kids get excited about for reasons more than just “oh we have an opponent, lets win”. Everyone wants those high emotion games and we dont have it in the current Big South.

History and rivalries are what makes the SoCon better, even though losing GSU, ASU, Marshall did hurt some.

[PaladinFan]

I don't know the internal workings, but I still think JSU and KSU would be good additions to the SoCon if they opt to stay at the FCS.

JSU has a historic connection to Samford. JSU would likely be immediate rivals with KSU. I can also see KSU and UTC becoming a good rivalry, with both schools being about a 2 hour jaunt down the interstate.

[dgtw]

I don't know the internal workings, but I still think JSU and KSU would be good additions to the SoCon if they opt to stay at the FCS.

JSU has a historic connection to Samford. JSU would likely be immediate rivals with KSU. I can also see KSU and UTC becoming a good rivalry, with both schools being about a 2 hour jaunt down the interstate.

I would love that. We have no real rivals in the OVC. Both Chattanooga And Kennesaw would be great annual games.


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[FUBeAR]

I don't know the internal workings, but I still think JSU and KSU would be good additions to the SoCon if they opt to stay at the FCS.

JSU has a historic connection to Samford. JSU would likely be immediate rivals with KSU. I can also see KSU and UTC becoming a good rivalry, with both schools being about a 2 hour jaunt down the interstate.
KSU & Mercer were fierce non-Football rivals in the ASun from 2005-2014. Both of their current Football rosters are heavily dominated by Players from Georgia - roughly 80% for each. I’m sure if the Owls joined the SoCon a ‘spirited’ rivalry with the Bears would immediately ensue.

As a 40 year fan of the SoCon, I would only support KSU joining the SoCon with a RIDICULOUS & perpetual buyout penalty to leave. I do think it could be a very good move for all involved, but the Owls need to PROVE they REALLY want to be in the SoCon & PROVE they REALLY want to stay in the SoCon. If they do, a RIDICULOUS buyout shouldn’t be an issue for them at all. If they won’t agree to such terms, then I don’t care if they stay in the Big South, join the SEC, go D2, or become the next NFL expansion Team.

The last thing the SoCon needs is another E*Loan or Collage of Charlatan.

[Bucs2016]

KSU & Mercer were fierce non-Football rivals in the ASun from 2005-2014. Both of their current Football rosters are heavily dominated by Players from Georgia - roughly 80% for each. I’m sure if the Owls joined the SoCon a ‘spirited’ rivalry with the Bears would immediately ensue.

As a 40 year fan of the SoCon, I would only support KSU joining the SoCon with a RIDICULOUS & perpetual buyout penalty to leave. I do think it could be a very good move for all involved, but the Owls need to PROVE they REALLY want to be in the SoCon & PROVE they REALLY want to stay in the SoCon. If they do, a RIDICULOUS buyout shouldn’t be an issue for them at all. If they won’t agree to such terms, then I don’t care if they stay in the Big South, join the SEC, go D2, or become the next NFL expansion Team.

The last thing the SoCon needs is another E*Loan or Collage of Charlatan.

Speaking of College of Charleston.....my God why havent they started football? Of all the schools who have added football the past decade and they havent, I just think CofC would become a monster program with the campus they can recruit to, the facility they could build at a Patriots Point to play in and the recruiting area. They’d be as good as Kennessaw in my opinion.

[CID1990]

KSU & Mercer were fierce non-Football rivals in the ASun from 2005-2014. Both of their current Football rosters are heavily dominated by Players from Georgia - roughly 80% for each. I’m sure if the Owls joined the SoCon a ‘spirited’ rivalry with the Bears would immediately ensue.

As a 40 year fan of the SoCon, I would only support KSU joining the SoCon with a RIDICULOUS & perpetual buyout penalty to leave. I do think it could be a very good move for all involved, but the Owls need to PROVE they REALLY want to be in the SoCon & PROVE they REALLY want to stay in the SoCon. If they do, a RIDICULOUS buyout shouldn’t be an issue for them at all. If they won’t agree to such terms, then I don’t care if they stay in the Big South, join the SEC, go D2, or become the next NFL expansion Team.

The last thing the SoCon needs is another E*Loan or Collage of Charlatan.

My impression has always been that KSU started football with the sole focus on winding up in FBS sooner rather than later.

I’d agree that an established conference should only take them with a huge exit payout clause.

The SoCon is very stable now, with the magic number of teams - and a good balance between the state schools and small privates. I’d question any suggestion towards bringing KSU on board.

[UNAPride]

If the ASUN works out a deal with the Sun Belt, KSU will have an FBS option w/o leaving their current conference. No need to grovel at the SoCon or any other conference.

Stay tuned...

[walliver]

If the ASUN works out a deal with the Sun Belt, KSU will have an FBS option w/o leaving their current conference. No need to grovel at the SoCon or any other conference.

Stay tuned...

Troy has successfully kept JSU out of the Sun Belt.

There is no reason to think Georgia State won't do the same to KSU.

The A-Sun has a deal with the Big South for football because both leagues are "starter" conferences and find themselves accepting geographic outliers just to maintain minimum numbers. The non-football Big South is actually a healthy geographically compact conference with all its teams in the Carolinas and Virginia. Football needs affiliated members to maintain their automatic bid. The A-Sun needs to maintain its numbers also, so it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Although in some ways also a "starter" conference for FBS, the Sun Belt has no shortage attracting teams and has run teams off (NMSU and Idaho) and kept teams out (Liberty). Liberty was willing to pay big bucks to join, but were turned down. I don't see what KSU would bring to the Sun Belt unless Georgia State leaves.

[Go...gate]

Dont worry Nova football will be coming to the Patriot League soon enough. Talley is gone. He was the holdout. Give it time. xpeacex

From your lips to God's ears.

[Bucs2016]

Troy has successfully kept JSU out of the Sun Belt.

There is no reason to think Georgia State won't do the same to KSU.

The A-Sun has a deal with the Big South for football because both leagues are "starter" conferences and find themselves accepting geographic outliers just to maintain minimum numbers. The non-football Big South is actually a healthy geographically compact conference with all its teams in the Carolinas and Virginia. Football needs affiliated members to maintain their automatic bid. The A-Sun needs to maintain its numbers also, so it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Although in some ways also a "starter" conference for FBS, the Sun Belt has no shortage attracting teams and has run teams off (NMSU and Idaho) and kept teams out (Liberty). Liberty was willing to pay big bucks to join, but were turned down. I don't see what KSU would bring to the Sun Belt unless Georgia State leaves.

Yep if more of the other Big South schools had football there wouldnt be a problem. Winthrop and Radford flirted with the idea and its a shame they didnt.

[citdog]

If the ASUN works out a deal with the Sun Belt, KSU will have an FBS option w/o leaving their current conference. No need to grovel at the SoCon or any other conference.

Stay tuned...

You should grovel at the SoCon. Being "confederated" with The Citadel, vermin, etc would legitimize your school...

[dungeonjoe]

You should grovel at the SoCon. Being "confederated" with The Citadel, vermin, etc would legitimize your school...
a confederation with vermin... that phrase is going in the AGS vault for 2019.

[ksu_owls]

I don't see KSU going FBS in the near future... 10 years from now at a minimum. Being an FCS powerhouse would be way more fun than turning into the next GaSt or getting excited about meaningless bowl games like Ga Southern. I get the money is better in FBS, but I don't want to be the new kid that sucks like every other FBS school in Georgia that's not named Georgia.

[Reign of Terrier]

KSU going FBS before a minimum of 10 years from now would signal the program just being a leech for athletics revenue, not worried about success or a fun environment. Like Georgia State. Georgia Southern at least has a culture of expecting to win and like 20,000ish fans who will regularly attend games if they're good (and about 10,000 that will travel).

Right now KSU can't get 5,000 to a home playoff game. They need 15,000 at minimum to eventually make the leap to FBS (unless they're coastal carolina or whatever) and there's no way they do that without making football exciting and doing better to promote the program. Not to mention stadium expansion.

This is why I think KSU to the socon would be in their best interest in the short, near, and long term. If they truly want to be FBS one day they have to make games exciting and make sure their team is good. That just won't happen in the Big South. I mean, it could possibly happen, but it would take a minimum of 5 years or so for most of the other teams to catch up.

[walliver]

I don't see KSU going FBS in the near future... 10 years from now at a minimum. Being an FCS powerhouse would be way more fun than turning into the next GaSt or getting excited about meaningless bowl games like Ga Southern. I get the money is better in FBS, but I don't want to be the new kid that sucks like every other FBS school in Georgia that's not named Georgia.

The money isn't really better in FBS, at least not the the lower G5. Each school gets a $1M payment from the college football playoff to avoid antitrust lawsuits, and will get $1M per money game (as opposed to the $300-400K that FCS teams receive), but they then have to spend some of that money to buy a FCS home game. For the somewhat more than $1M extra revenue, they will have to provide 44 extra scholarships, pay the coaches more, etc. The more established schools like Georgia Southern and App State draw big crowds (but they also drew big crowds in FCS). Schools like Coastal and most of the MAC struggle mightily to get fans in seats.

Most FCS to FBS moves are motivated, not by money, but by a drive for greater media exposure and institutional "prestige". The concern that many of us outsiders have had for KSU is a feeling that the powers that be may not want to play long-term FCS in the shadow of FBS Georgia State. On the other hand, Georgia State is spending beaucoups of money just to be the 5th or 6th most popular college team among Atlanta fans.

[fc97]

KSU & Mercer were fierce non-Football rivals in the ASun from 2005-2014. Both of their current Football rosters are heavily dominated by Players from Georgia - roughly 80% for each. I’m sure if the Owls joined the SoCon a ‘spirited’ rivalry with the Bears would immediately ensue.

As a 40 year fan of the SoCon, I would only support KSU joining the SoCon with a RIDICULOUS & perpetual buyout penalty to leave. I do think it could be a very good move for all involved, but the Owls need to PROVE they REALLY want to be in the SoCon & PROVE they REALLY want to stay in the SoCon. If they do, a RIDICULOUS buyout shouldn’t be an issue for them at all. If they won’t agree to such terms, then I don’t care if they stay in the Big South, join the SEC, go D2, or become the next NFL expansion Team.

The last thing the SoCon needs is another E*Loan or Collage of Charlatan.

Ah, there we go. The perpetual name-calling. Are you sure you aren't a closet App fan?

Look, there were many more dynamics to Elon and Charleston moving than just name dropping derogatory comments. The CAA tried to lure a number of schools from the SoCon years before (Furman, The Citadel, App, Davidson, Charleston) among them. Had they left and the SoCon was left basically as the Big South, these "opinions" would be quite different.

At the time SoCon had problems. Even without VMI/ETSU there were problems.
1) Public vs Private.
2) Large (App/GSU/UNCG) vs Medium (WCU/UTC/Elon/Furman/Samford) vs Small (Davidson/The Citadel/Wofford)
3) Northern (Elon/Charleston) vs Southern alumni base (all others)
4) East vs West (UTC)
5) Those supporting ETSU's waiver (App/WCU/Elon/UTC) and those that didn't (lead by GSU)

It's just not as simple as you don't need another Elon and Charleston (with the name calling).

But hey, you're opinionated and no one can talk to you. You remind me of a certain App poster from years ago.

[FUBeAR]

Ah, there we go. The perpetual name-calling. Are you sure you aren't a closet App fan?

Look, there were many more dynamics to Elon and Charleston moving than just name dropping derogatory comments. The CAA tried to lure a number of schools from the SoCon years before (Furman, The Citadel, App, Davidson, Charleston) among them. Had they left and the SoCon was left basically as the Big South, these "opinions" would be quite different.

At the time SoCon had problems. Even without VMI/ETSU there were problems.
1) Public vs Private.
2) Large (App/GSU/UNCG) vs Medium (WCU/UTC/Elon/Furman/Samford) vs Small (Davidson/The Citadel/Wofford)
3) Northern (Elon/Charleston) vs Southern alumni base (all others)
4) East vs West (UTC)
5) Those supporting ETSU's waiver (App/WCU/Elon/UTC) and those that didn't (lead by GSU)

It's just not as simple as you don't need another Elon and Charleston (with the name calling).

But hey, you're opinionated and no one can talk to you. You remind me of a certain App poster from years ago.
https://i.gifer.com/origin/85/85ef3e5e64420a32dfc082e82eaa9dde_w200.gif

[Reign of Terrier]

Ah, there we go. The perpetual name-calling. Are you sure you aren't a closet App fan?

Look, there were many more dynamics to Elon and Charleston moving than just name dropping derogatory comments. The CAA tried to lure a number of schools from the SoCon years before (Furman, The Citadel, App, Davidson, Charleston) among them. Had they left and the SoCon was left basically as the Big South, these "opinions" would be quite different.

At the time SoCon had problems. Even without VMI/ETSU there were problems.
1) Public vs Private.
2) Large (App/GSU/UNCG) vs Medium (WCU/UTC/Elon/Furman/Samford) vs Small (Davidson/The Citadel/Wofford)
3) Northern (Elon/Charleston) vs Southern alumni base (all others)
4) East vs West (UTC)
5) Those supporting ETSU's waiver (App/WCU/Elon/UTC) and those that didn't (lead by GSU)

It's just not as simple as you don't need another Elon and Charleston (with the name calling).

But hey, you're opinionated and no one can talk to you. You remind me of a certain App poster from years ago.

I'm not going to pretend I know about the internal dynamics of the College of Charleston, but it's not a "northern" school by any stretch. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong with some student/alumni demographic information, but I'm pretty sure CofC is where the smart kids in South Carolina go if they don't want to go to/can't afford Wofford/Furman or if they live in the Charleston area. I lived in the Upstate, so maybe my perception is skewed/wrong

Furman probably has more northerners of any school in the Socon, judging by the income of their current students (they have more students from the top 1% income families than the bottom 60%; there aren't that many families with that kind of income in SC)

[UNAPride]

You should grovel at the SoCon. Being "confederated" with The Citadel, vermin, etc would legitimize your school...

xlolxxlolxxthumbsupx

My alma mater is legitimate regardless of even having athletics. I assure you the SoCon is not where our fans want to be. Samford and UTC are the only schools our fanbase would care to play.

Although, we did play Greensboro in men's hoops the other night (a 5-point loss) and have VMI on our upcoming schedule. Our women defeated Western Carolina by 23 over Thanksgiving.

[FUBeAR]

Our women defeated Western Carolina by 23 over Thanksgiving.



Basketball (W)
Season 2017-18


SoCon Women's Basketball
SoCon
Overall


Team
Record
Pct
Home
Away
Record
Pct
Home
Away
Neutral


Mercer (http://www.mercerbears.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
14-0
1.000
7-0
7-0
30-3
.909
13-1
13-1
4-1


ETSU (http://www.etsubucs.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
11-3
.786
6-1
5-2
20-13
.606
10-3
8-6
2-4


Chattanooga (http://www.gomocs.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
8-6
.571
4-3
4-3
17-13
.567
8-5
6-6
3-2


Furman (http://furmanpaladins.collegesports.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
7-7
.500
5-2
2-5
18-14
.563
12-2
5-10
1-2


Samford (http://www.samfordsports.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
6-8
.429
4-3
2-5
15-16
.484
11-4
2-10
2-2


UNCG (http://www.uncgspartans.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
6-8
.429
4-3
2-5
13-18
.419
8-7
4-10
1-1


Wofford (http://athletics.wofford.edu/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
3-11
.214
2-5
1-6
10-20
.333
8-8
2-11
0-1


Western Carolina (http://catamountsports.collegesports.com/?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4000)
1-13
.071
0-7
1-6
5-25
.167
4-10
1-14
0-1

[UNHWildcat18]

Dont worry Nova football will be coming to the Patriot League soon enough. Talley is gone. He was the holdout. Give it time. xpeacex


I hope you are joking lol........... I can see Monmouth leaving the big south for the PL but I can't see Villanova leaving the CAA for the PL. That would be such a downgrade

[walliver]

I'm not going to pretend I know about the internal dynamics of the College of Charleston, but it's not a "northern" school by any stretch. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong with some student/alumni demographic information, but I'm pretty sure CofC is where the smart kids in South Carolina go if they don't want to go to/can't afford Wofford/Furman or if they live in the Charleston area. I lived in the Upstate, so maybe my perception is skewed/wrong

Furman probably has more northerners of any school in the Socon, judging by the income of their current students (they have more students from the top 1% income families than the bottom 60%; there aren't that many families with that kind of income in SC)

The College of Knowledge recruits quite heavily in the mid-Atlantic and Northeast and has a very heavy Yankee presence. Most of the smart kids in the Upstate who don't go to a private school will pick Clemson, if they can get in.

State funding for some of the public colleges is extremely poor, especially CofC, CCU, and USC-Upstate. CofC and CCU, therefore, preferentially select out of state students who pay full tuition (Clemson does that, too - they have to find some money to pay Dabo with). The College of Charleston has improved somewhat from when I was in Charleston in the 1980's when the main degree offered by The College was a MRS from either MUSC or the Citadel. It was basically the low country version of Winthrop.

My daughter finished the college admissions process 18 months ago and she met a lot of kids from the mid-Atlantic and Northeast doing the I-85 trip. Duke, Wake, Davidson (and maybe Elon) one week, and Wofford, Furman, and Clemson the next (It's amazing what a CFP Championship can do for college recruiting). Wofford now draws heavily from Ohio, I guess if Furman ever goes to the CAA, we can go to the MACxnodx - we'd compete better there than the MVFC.

[SU DOG]

xlolxxlolxxthumbsupx

My alma mater is legitimate regardless of even having athletics. I assure you the SoCon is not where our fans want to be. Samford and UTC are the only schools our fanbase would care to play.

Although, we did play Greensboro in men's hoops the other night (a 5-point loss) and have VMI on our upcoming schedule. Our women defeated Western Carolina by 23 over Thanksgiving.

I wonder just who it is that your fans want to see you play in the BS Conference? I know some of your fans, and they say differently about this than what you do.
Look, I was for UNA going D-1 and even would like to have seen them in the SoCon. The football program has a great history in the Gulf South, played well last season, and will surely field a good FCS team. Still, don't knock a better conference and try to speak for all TUNA folks. xeyebrowx

It is also funny that you mention basketball(for some unknown reason), when Flowers Hall is in such drastic need of upgrades or replacement, and yes I know that there is talk of that happening.

[UNAPride]

I wonder just who it is that your fans want to see you play in the BS Conference? I know some of your fans, and they say differently about this than what you do.
Look, I was for UNA going D-1 and even would like to have seen them in the SoCon. The football program has a great history in the Gulf South, played well last season, and will surely field a good FCS team. Still, don't knock a better conference and try to speak for all TUNA folks. xeyebrowx

It is also funny that you mention basketball(for some unknown reason), when Flowers Hall is in such drastic need of upgrades or replacement, and yes I know that there is talk of that happening.

Good for them. I'm just really enjoying our matchups with Lipscomb, Liberty, and Florida Gulf Coast so far. Flowers looks like a HS gym compared to some of these arenas UNA has been playing in on the road. I did just have a $2M facelift indoors and is much improved. Heading out to play Gonzaga in a few days. Lord help the Lions.

No offense to SoCon. Just wasn't keen on the groveling comment. I'm a big fan of Hatcher, so I'm all about Bulldogs football! Y'all creamed us in hoops a few weeks back.

[citdog]

Good for them. I'm just really enjoying our matchups with Lipscomb, Liberty, and Florida Gulf Coast so far. Flowers looks like a HS gym compared to some of these arenas UNA has been playing in on the road. I did just have a $2M facelift indoors and is much improved. Heading out to play Gonzaga in a few days. Lord help the Lions.

No offense to SoCon. Just wasn't keen on the groveling comment. I'm a big fan of Hatcher, so I'm all about Bulldogs football! Y'all creamed us in hoops a few weeks back.

Well you said everything anybody here needed to know about you by the "I am a fan of Hatcher". That guy does less with more than anybody in the FCS. I know you are new so burn thus in your mind, there is only ONE set of Bulldogs in the SoCon and they perform at General Johnson Hagood Stadium on the banks of the Ashley River in Charleston, SC.

[UNAPride]

Well you said everything anybody here needed to know about you by the "I am a fan of Hatcher". That guy does less with more than anybody in the FCS. I know you are new so burn thus in your mind, there is only ONE set of Bulldogs in the SoCon and they perform at General Johnson Hagood Stadium on the banks of the Ashley River in Charleston, SC.

I've watched him since he was a standout QB for Valdosta State.

[Reign of Terrier]

The College of Knowledge recruits quite heavily in the mid-Atlantic and Northeast and has a very heavy Yankee presence. Most of the smart kids in the Upstate who don't go to a private school will pick Clemson, if they can get in.

State funding for some of the public colleges is extremely poor, especially CofC, CCU, and USC-Upstate. CofC and CCU, therefore, preferentially select out of state students who pay full tuition (Clemson does that, too - they have to find some money to pay Dabo with). The College of Charleston has improved somewhat from when I was in Charleston in the 1980's when the main degree offered by The College was a MRS from either MUSC or the Citadel. It was basically the low country version of Winthrop.

My daughter finished the college admissions process 18 months ago and she met a lot of kids from the mid-Atlantic and Northeast doing the I-85 trip. Duke, Wake, Davidson (and maybe Elon) one week, and Wofford, Furman, and Clemson the next (It's amazing what a CFP Championship can do for college recruiting). Wofford now draws heavily from Ohio, I guess if Furman ever goes to the CAA, we can go to the MACxnodx - we'd compete better there than the MVFC.

I think if you look at Wofford's freshmen demographics of the last few years, something like 80% of the enrollment came from SC, NC, GA, Tennessee and Florida

[FUBeAR]

Well you said everything anybody here needed to know about you by the "I am a fan of Hatcher". That guy does less with more than anybody in the FCS. I know you are new so burn thus in your mind, there is Bulldogs in the SoCon and they perform at General Johnson Hagood #Half-a-Stadium on the banks of the Ashley River in Charleston, SC.FYP

[UNHWildcat18]

Anyone else feel like the Big South is doomed to be a bottom feeder conference? PC is leaving, Monmouth won't stay much longer. Also I'm no southern football expert, and I'd like to hear some opinions of the soconn/big south guys, but does anyone have a gut feeling that KSU and UNA could be using big south as place holder while they try to get into the soconn?

They may just want to stay at 9 but if they ever wanted to get to 10/11 the top programs in the big south would pounce on it wouldn't they?

[citdog]

FYP

Hell we should just claim Mercer as our home field. We win there so often..

[FUBeAR]

Hell we should just claim Mercer as our home field. We win there so often..
Well....I can’t argue with that (yet)...So, I’ll just post something that makes me happy, instead.



November 18, 1978
Greenville, SC
Furman
17–13


November 17, 1979
Charleston, SC
Furman
45–44


November 22, 1980
Greenville, SC
Furman
28–15


November 21, 1981
Charleston, SC
The Citadel
35–18


November 20, 1982
Greenville, SC
Furman
27–0


November 19, 1983
Charleston, SC
Furman
49–21


November 17, 1984
Greenville, SC
Furman
42–14


November 16, 1985
Charleston, SC
Furman
42–0


November 22, 1986
Greenville, SC
Furman
37–14


November 21, 1987
Charleston, SC
Furman
58–13


November 19, 1988
Greenville, SC
Furman
30–17


November 18, 1989
Charleston, SC
Furman
44–9


November 17, 1990
Greenville, SC
Furman
30–17

[citdog]

Well....I can’t argue with that (yet)...So, I’ll just post something that makes me happy, instead.



November 18, 1978
Greenville, SC
Furman
17–13


November 17, 1979
Charleston, SC
Furman
45–44


November 22, 1980
Greenville, SC
Furman
28–15


November 21, 1981
Charleston, SC
The Citadel
35–18


November 20, 1982
Greenville, SC
Furman
27–0


November 19, 1983
Charleston, SC
Furman
49–21


November 17, 1984
Greenville, SC
Furman
42–14


November 16, 1985
Charleston, SC
Furman
42–0


November 22, 1986
Greenville, SC
Furman
37–14


November 21, 1987
Charleston, SC
Furman
58–13


November 19, 1988
Greenville, SC
Furman
30–17


November 18, 1989
Charleston, SC
Furman
44–9


November 17, 1990
Greenville, SC
Furman
30–17



My favorite was in '92 in Travelers Rest...

[UNAPride]

Anyone else feel like the Big South is doomed to be a bottom feeder conference? PC is leaving, Monmouth won't stay much longer. Also I'm no southern football expert, and I'd like to hear some opinions of the soconn/big south guys, but does anyone have a gut feeling that KSU and UNA could be using big south as place holder while they try to get into the soconn?

They may just want to stay at 9 but if they ever wanted to get to 10/11 the top programs in the big south would pounce on it wouldn't they?

PC should have never left D2.

UNA is not even in the Big South until next year but I don't see it as a placeholder. The OVC is a better geographic fit for us but they dissed us a couple years back as they wanted to focus on basketball more than football.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the SoCon doesn't hit many key factors of conference membership for UNA when compared to the ASUN. I'm talking all sports, obviously. Our teams are used to traveling to Florida and our fans recognize names like Liberty, Lipscomb, and FGCU. We don't have any historical connection to most of the SoCon teams and, thus, many (probably most) in our fanbase don't recognize most of those schools.

As I stated, having Samford, Chatty, and JSU on our schedule as non-conference opponents are great and should satisfy any urge to join those conference just to be able to schedule those close proximity programs.

Personally, I'm thrilled with our ASUN membership and Big South affiliation for football. I see it as a win-win for UNA.

[citdog]

PC should have never left D2.

UNA is not even in the Big South until next year but I don't see it as a placeholder. The OVC is a better geographic fit for us but they dissed us a couple years back as they wanted to focus on basketball more than football.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the SoCon doesn't hit many key factors of conference membership for UNA when compared to the ASUN. I'm talking all sports, obviously. Our teams are used to traveling to Florida and our fans recognize names like Liberty, Lipscomb, and FGCU. We don't have any historical connection to most of the SoCon teams and, thus, many (probably most) in our fanbase don't recognize most of those schools.

As I stated, having Samford, Chatty, and JSU on our schedule as non-conference opponents are great and should satisfy any urge to join those conference just to be able to schedule those close proximity programs.

Personally, I'm thrilled with our ASUN membership and Big South affiliation for football. I see it as a win-win for UNA.

So your fans ignorance is a PLUS for you? Pretty sure most everyone in Alabama knows who The Citadel is now...

[Sir William]

Personally, I'm thrilled with our...Big South affiliation for football. I see it as a win-win for UNA.

You should be! Given UNA’s football tradition and the big south's overall historical mediocrity, you’ll be splitting time with KSU enjoying the conference’s playoff autobid regularly.

[UNAPride]

You should be! Given UNA’s football tradition and the big south's overall historical mediocrity, you’ll be splitting time with KSU enjoying the conference’s playoff autobid regularly.

Agreed. Here's hoping! xthumbsupx

[UNAPride]

So your fans ignorance is a PLUS for you? Pretty sure most everyone in Alabama knows who The Citadel is now...

Lol. The team tied with the Tide at halftime to go on and lose by 33. Yes, familiar.

But, you're making my point for me. FCS programs in Alabama have to compete for recognition with the only "pro team" in the state. I guess y'all have to deal with Clemson but you get my point. One reason for moving to DI was to put butts in seats and amp up interest that had lulled from playing small D2 schools. I'm not seeing many names in the SoCon that would jump out to our fans who are already pre-occupied with Bama and even Auburn. The OVC has some of our old GSC rivals but, again, probably won't ever happen after the snub a few years back.

And, no offense, but several Gulf South Conference schools in D2 are 3/4 times the size of The Citadel.

[citdog]

Lol. The team tied with the Tide at halftime to go on and lose by 33. Yes, familiar.

But, you're making my point for me. FCS programs in Alabama have to compete for recognition with the only "pro team" in the state. I guess y'all have to deal with Clemson but you get my point. One reason for moving to DI was to put butts in seats and amp up interest that had lulled from playing small D2 schools. I'm not seeing many names in the SoCon that would jump out to our fans who are already pre-occupied with Bama and even Auburn. The OVC has some of our old GSC rivals but, again, probably won't ever happen after the snub a few years back.

And, no offense, but several Gulf South Conference schools in D2 are 3/4 times the size of The Citadel.

Size doesn't equal respect. You are right though the Campbell Camels and monmouth have way more name recognition than The Citadel, vermin, or Woffy...

[UNAPride]

Size doesn't equal respect. You are right though the Campbell Camels and monmouth have way more name recognition than The Citadel, vermin, or Woffy...

I mean to disrespect to The Citadel. Obviously a great school and program.

But, I follow all our teams, not just football. I'm enjoying watching the ASUN.

We were Indys this year and haven't yet experienced Big South football. I'm pretty pumped to see all those schools on our schedule next season. I get that it might not have a lot of football respect but maybe UNA can use that as an advantage to get back to playoff football as quickly as possible.

The Lions have just left a crazy competitive conference. The GSC just sent a third different team to the national title game in consecutive years. It's a gauntlet each season and, because of D2 regionalization, you pretty much knew you'd meet at least one conference team in the playoffs. The Gulf South Conference has gotten four teams (basically unheard of in D2 with the Earned Access rule) into the playoffs the past two seasons (six different schools). It might be nice to have an easier path to the postseason.

But, that's assuming a lot. UNA has work to do to even compete in the Big South. We shall see what 2019 holds.

[Birdman_]

I don't really have anything to add here that hasn't already been said. The current state of the Big South is awful outside of KSU. While it looks to be better going forward with the addition of UNA and subtraction of PC (not forgetting about Hampton, but don't think they'll be a factor just yet). Very excited about UNA though - that is a great addition for the conference.

Longer term - the Big South is an awkward fit for KSU. I agree that the SoCon is a better fit from KSU's perspective, however I'm not sure that the SoCon would be looking to add them. There was an opportunity to do so when the program started, and they opted not to. I believe the goal was to focus on smaller constituents, and although I don't know about how much revenue KSU generates for a conference relative to other schools, I'd imagine it's not what anyone thinks it should be given the size of the University. This is probably true across all sports, so I'm not sure there is much of a financial incentive for the existing members to welcome a much larger school into the conference without there being some sort of immediate financial benefit.

I also agree that KSU should not be FBS bound, especially not anytime remotely soon. Personally, I'd be incredibly happy if KSU joined the SoCon and stayed there as along as possible. The natural rivalries that could exist within the SoCon make more sense than the Big South, and that's probably one of the leading factors leading to our awful attendance numbers. KSU's basketball team has been atrocious for years, and attendance has matched, however every match up against Mercer brought a packed house. Continuity is also important though, so whatever happens after 2019, I hope we stay wherever we end up for a long time.

[UNAPride]

It was just pointed out on the UNA board that Kennesaw is the only team the Lions will face in all sports. Being only 4 hours apart, the Owls will likely develop into a rivalry game.

[ElCid]

Lol. The team tied with the Tide at halftime to go on and lose by 33. Yes, familiar.

.

Which was still a better score than most SEC teams did against them. LOL. We got more publicity from that one game, and probably a few recruits, than most FCS schools got all year.

[ElCid]

I don't really have anything to add here that hasn't already been said. The current state of the Big South is awful outside of KSU. While it looks to be better going forward with the addition of UNA and subtraction of PC (not forgetting about Hampton, but don't think they'll be a factor just yet). Very excited about UNA though - that is a great addition for the conference.

Longer term - the Big South is an awkward fit for KSU. I agree that the SoCon is a better fit from KSU's perspective, however I'm not sure that the SoCon would be looking to add them. There was an opportunity to do so when the program started, and they opted not to. I believe the goal was to focus on smaller constituents, and although I don't know about how much revenue KSU generates for a conference relative to other schools, I'd imagine it's not what anyone thinks it should be given the size of the University. This is probably true across all sports, so I'm not sure there is much of a financial incentive for the existing members to welcome a much larger school into the conference without there being some sort of immediate financial benefit.

I also agree that KSU should not be FBS bound, especially not anytime remotely soon. Personally, I'd be incredibly happy if KSU joined the SoCon and stayed there as along as possible. The natural rivalries that could exist within the SoCon make more sense than the Big South, and that's probably one of the leading factors leading to our awful attendance numbers. KSU's basketball team has been atrocious for years, and attendance has matched, however every match up against Mercer brought a packed house. Continuity is also important though, so whatever happens after 2019, I hope we stay wherever we end up for a long time.

The biggest issue I see is the poor attendance. Is support that weak? A school the size of KSU in one of the biggest metros in the country should have much better attendance. I get that it is a new program and it takes time to establish. At least they are winning. But who ever is running the publicity there needs to be fired. Even though we have a tenth of the student body in a small metro area, and had a losing record this year, and are without half our stadium, we had a much higher attendance numbers.

I can actually see KSU move to the SOCON in the near future (2-3 years). That said, we are a conference dominated by good, but small private/public schools (VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Wofford, Samford). Therefore, if KSU were to be added, I think it would require the addition of smaller public or private school as well. Call it a counter weight to KSU, UTC, WCU, ETSU, Mercer.

[ksu_owls]

It was just pointed out on the UNA board that Kennesaw is the only team the Lions will face in all sports. Being only 4 hours apart, the Owls will likely develop into a rivalry game.

I hope we do build some true rivals and I'm happy for it to be UNA. Our football program is heading in the right direction in every aspect but attendance-- a fun exciting rivalry would definitely not hurt our attendance. I wish we could have either JSU or Mercer at home every year. Mercer being our traditional rival and JSU building into a rival, that would also make for some fun exciting games that people might actually want to watch.

[FUBeAR]

Which was still a better score than most SEC teams did against them. LOL. We got more publicity from that one game, and probably a few recruits, than most FCS schools got all year.Absolutely! Per Twitter, every fan of UCF, all B1G Teams, all Big XII Teams, and all PAC 12 Teams knows Mercer’s & The Citadel’s Football Programs extremely well. They all relentlessly recite their expert opinions of the quality of those SoCon Teams in extensive discussions with Alabama & SEC fans.

[ElCid]

Absolutely! Per Twitter, every fan of UCF, all B1G Teams, all Big XII Teams, and all PAC 12 Teams knows Mercer’s & The Citadel’s Football Programs extremely well. They all relentlessly recite their expert opinions of the quality of those SoCon Teams in extensive discussions with Alabama & SEC fans.

LOL. Some of those comments are hilarious. But, as the saying goes, any publicity...is good publicity.

[FUBeAR]

I hope we do build some true rivals and I'm happy for it to be UNA. Our football program is heading in the right direction in every aspect but attendance-- a fun exciting rivalry would definitely not hurt our attendance. I wish we could have either JSU or Mercer at home every year. Mercer being our traditional rival and JSU building into a rival, that would also make for some fun exciting games that people might actually want to watch.So...in 2019, I see D2 Shorter AND NAIA PointU on the KSU Schedule. I’m assuming those are home games.

Not rhetorical & not trolling...but...Seriously, is that the best KSU could do? Seems like just wanting to rack up easy W’s...and I get that, to an extent, for a start-up program. Mercer’s 2013 & 2014 OOC schedules were similar. Of course, it was a bit different since Mercer didn’t offer scholarships until 2014, the same year as KSU did, but started playing 2 years after Mercer. With those 2 Sub D1’s being the only 2 OOC home games 6 years after starting up, though, it just doesn’t appear that KSU is trying very hard to give their fans a reason to show up; other than to get an ego-stroke by beating up much weaker opponents. Maybe, every other D1 FCS Team is just scared. I’ve read here that KSU is better than NDSU, so that could be the issue, I guess.

[PaladinFan]

I hope we do build some true rivals and I'm happy for it to be UNA. Our football program is heading in the right direction in every aspect but attendance-- a fun exciting rivalry would definitely not hurt our attendance. I wish we could have either JSU or Mercer at home every year. Mercer being our traditional rival and JSU building into a rival, that would also make for some fun exciting games that people might actually want to watch.

I think attendance would be the biggest concern for KSU. They are, I think, the largest student body in Georgia, centered in a major metro area, is a new shiny program that has had great success early. In spite of those things, attendance isn’t great.

If KSU has a few down years or goes FBS and disappears into obscurity, they will probably have an increasingly difficult time with attendance.

[cx500d]

Absolutely! Per Twitter, every fan of UCF, all B1G Teams, all Big XII Teams, and all PAC 12 Teams knows Mercer’s & The Citadel’s Football Programs extremely well. They all relentlessly recite their expert opinions of the quality of those SoCon Teams in extensive discussions with Alabama & SEC fans.

Mercer? Puhleeeeze


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phoenix3]

Kennesaw State's contract with the Big South expires in 2019 for football. I would not be surprised at all if they tried to get into the Socon. It's more in line with the Socon and KSU's mid to long term interest.
Honestly with total student enrollment of 35,000, KSU is bigger than NC State! At the very least I would see them trying to find a spot in the Sun Belt, C-USA or even the AAC. KSU reminds me a lot of USF about 20 years ago with their Football Program. I'd be VERY surprised to see them move to another FCS conference. They have an enormous student body and they're in a suburb of Atlanta. So they have a built in TV market and plenty of money to apply to building their FB program.

[walliver]

So...in 2019, I see D2 Shorter AND NAIA PointU on the KSU Schedule. I’m assuming those are home games.

Not rhetorical & not trolling...but...Seriously, is that the best KSU could do? Seems like just wanting to rack up easy W’s...and I get that, to an extent, for a start-up program. Mercer’s 2013 & 2014 OOC schedules were similar. Of course, it was a bit different since Mercer didn’t offer scholarships until 2014, the same year as KSU did, but started playing 2 years after Mercer. With those 2 Sub D1’s being the only 2 OOC home games 6 years after starting up, though, it just doesn’t appear that KSU is trying very hard to give their fans a reason to show up; other than to get an ego-stroke by beating up much weaker opponents. Maybe, every other D1 FCS Team is just scared. I’ve read here that KSU is better than NDSU, so that could be the issue, I guess.

As long as playoff at-large bids are awarded as currently done, few teams have any great incentive to play KSU. ETSU played them when both were starting off, Furman played them and lost, and KSU disappeared off FU schedules. Wofford has a home-and-home in the future.
To the committee, 'tis better to beat Gardner Webb than risk a loss to KSU. There are also a lot of teams out there that choose not to voluntarily play any option teams.

[cx500d]

As long as playoff at-large bids are awarded as currently done, few teams have any great incentive to play KSU. ETSU played them when both were starting off, Furman played them and lost, and KSU disappeared off FU schedules. Wofford has a home-and-home in the future.
To the committee, 'tis better to beat Gardner Webb than risk a loss to KSU. There are also a lot of teams out there that choose not to voluntarily play any option teams.

What? Furman afraid to play someone? Say it ain’t so


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[walliver]

Honestly with total student enrollment of 35,000, KSU is bigger than NC State! At the very least I would see them trying to find a spot in the Sun Belt, C-USA or even the AAC. KSU reminds me a lot of USF about 20 years ago with their Football Program. I'd be VERY surprised to see them move to another FCS conference. They have an enormous student body and they're in a suburb of Atlanta. So they have a built in TV market and plenty of money to apply to building their FB program.

The #1 team in the Atlanta market is UGA
A distant #2 would be Georgia Tech
#3 is likely Auburn
#4 is likely Alabama
#5 is likely South Carolina
Georgia State falls in there somewhere, and KSU is likely a step behind.

The Atlanta market would likely thrill C-USA, but I would expect them to go after Georgia State. This would possible open a spot for KSU in the Sun Belt.

[cx500d]

The #1 team in the Atlanta market is UGA
A distant #2 would be Georgia Tech
#3 is likely Auburn
#4 is likely Alabama
#5 is likely South Carolina
Georgia State falls in there somewhere, and KSU is likely a step behind.

The Atlanta market would likely thrill C-USA, but I would expect them to go after Georgia State. This would possible open a spot for KSU in the Sun Belt.

They’re probably behind Georgia southern even.


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[FUBeAR]

The #1 team in the Atlanta market is UGA
A distant #2 would be Georgia Tech
#3 is likely Auburn
#4 is likely Alabama
#5 is likely South Carolina
Georgia State falls in there somewhere, and KSU is likely a step behind.

The Atlanta market would likely thrill C-USA, but I would expect them to go after Georgia State. This would possible open a spot for KSU in the Sun Belt.FUBeAR sees the ATL non-Pro Football Market a little more like this...

#1 - UGa
#2 - GT / Clemson / Auburn (how did you forget Clemson?)
#3 - Alabama
#4 - Local HS Team
#5 - Ole Miss / Florida / Tennessee / South Carolina / other SEC
#6 - FSU or other ACC
#7 - Notre Dame / Ohio State / Penn State / Michigan or other MW/NE schools
#8 - Favorite HBCU Team
#9 - GaSt
#10 - GaSou
#11 - All other Alma Maters
#12 - Local Jr/Middle School Team
#13 - Local ‘Pound Ball’ Team
#14 - Kennesaw
#15 - Reinhardt

[phoenix3]

The #1 team in the Atlanta market is UGA
A distant #2 would be Georgia Tech
#3 is likely Auburn
#4 is likely Alabama
#5 is likely South Carolina
Georgia State falls in there somewhere, and KSU is likely a step behind.

The Atlanta market would likely thrill C-USA, but I would expect them to go after Georgia State. This would possible open a spot for KSU in the Sun Belt.
I agree with what you posted here. This is the reason KSU reminds me so much of USF 20 years ago. In FL there was FSU, Florida, Miami, Auburn, Alabama, etc., etc. USF had a huge enrollment, largely of commuter students. They began their program in 1997 to lackluster early performance. They even lost 41-13 to a D2 Elon in 1997. Now they are top echelon AAC.

[CID1990]

I don't really have anything to add here that hasn't already been said. The current state of the Big South is awful outside of KSU. While it looks to be better going forward with the addition of UNA and subtraction of PC (not forgetting about Hampton, but don't think they'll be a factor just yet). Very excited about UNA though - that is a great addition for the conference.

Longer term - the Big South is an awkward fit for KSU. I agree that the SoCon is a better fit from KSU's perspective, however I'm not sure that the SoCon would be looking to add them. There was an opportunity to do so when the program started, and they opted not to. I believe the goal was to focus on smaller constituents, and although I don't know about how much revenue KSU generates for a conference relative to other schools, I'd imagine it's not what anyone thinks it should be given the size of the University. This is probably true across all sports, so I'm not sure there is much of a financial incentive for the existing members to welcome a much larger school into the conference without there being some sort of immediate financial benefit.

I also agree that KSU should not be FBS bound, especially not anytime remotely soon. Personally, I'd be incredibly happy if KSU joined the SoCon and stayed there as along as possible. The natural rivalries that could exist within the SoCon make more sense than the Big South, and that's probably one of the leading factors leading to our awful attendance numbers. KSU's basketball team has been atrocious for years, and attendance has matched, however every match up against Mercer brought a packed house. Continuity is also important though, so whatever happens after 2019, I hope we stay wherever we end up for a long time.

The last thing Mercer wants is another option team they can only beat once in a blue moon


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[cx500d]

FUBeAR sees the ATL non-Pro Football Market a little more like this...

#1 - UGa
#2 - GT / Clemson / Auburn (how did you forget Clemson?)
#3 - Alabama
#4 - Local HS Team
#5 - Ole Miss / Florida / Tennessee / South Carolina / other SEC
#6 - FSU or other ACC
#7 - Notre Dame / Ohio State / Penn State / Michigan or other MW/NE schools
#8 - Favorite HBCU Team
#9 - GaSt
#10 - GaSou
#11 - All other Alma Maters
#12 - Local Jr/Middle School Team
#13 - Local ‘Pound Ball’ Team
#14 - Kennesaw
#15 - Reinhardt

Pound ball? Is that what they play in the local prisons?


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[FUBeAR]

The last thing Mercer wants is another option team they can only beat once in a blue moonYou might be right. Wofford has beaten the Bears pretty badly in 2 (2014 & 2018) of their 5 contests since Mercer’s ‘re-birth,’ with a couple of 1 point heartbreakers sandwiched between. Oh well, maybe there will finally be a blue moon in Maconga on 11/9/19 when the RatDogs come to town.

[FUBeAR]

Pound ball? Is that what they play in the local prisons?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/71d0ea07250b65df29723dc16441915c/tumblr_nj2809uK0m1rerzc4o1_400.gif

[DFW HOYA]

In FL there was FSU, Florida, Miami, Auburn, Alabama, etc., etc. USF had a huge enrollment, largely of commuter students. They began their program in 1997 to lackluster early performance. They even lost 41-13 to a D2 Elon in 1997. Now they are top echelon AAC.

And before that, the school across town was the big-time football program.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-cm04ZUdzw

[BurialGround]

So...in 2019, I see D2 Shorter AND NAIA PointU on the KSU Schedule. I’m assuming those are home games.

Not rhetorical & not trolling...but...Seriously, is that the best KSU could do? Seems like just wanting to rack up easy W’s...and I get that, to an extent, for a start-up program. Mercer’s 2013 & 2014 OOC schedules were similar. Of course, it was a bit different since Mercer didn’t offer scholarships until 2014, the same year as KSU did, but started playing 2 years after Mercer. With those 2 Sub D1’s being the only 2 OOC home games 6 years after starting up, though, it just doesn’t appear that KSU is trying very hard to give their fans a reason to show up; other than to get an ego-stroke by beating up much weaker opponents. Maybe, every other D1 FCS Team is just scared. I’ve read here that KSU is better than NDSU, so that could be the issue, I guess.

Interesting. That's not the schedule I saw a couple months ago, but it very well may be now... and according to that schedule, we have 12 games?

Furman and Duquesne have disappeared. Furman has been rescheduled for 2023, but we already knew that one.

Duquesne? We went up to their place and won in our second year, and the return trip has been cancelled? The season after they won a playoff game? What's up with that?

And if we got cancelled on like that, then this schedule indeed might've been "the best we could do"....

[FUBeAR]

Interesting. That's not the schedule I saw a couple months ago, but it very well may be now... and according to that schedule, we have 12 games?

Furman and Duquesne have disappeared. Furman has been rescheduled for 2023, but we already knew that one.

Duquesne? We went up to their place and won in our second year, and the return trip has been cancelled? The season after they won a playoff game? What's up with that?

And if we got cancelled on like that, then this schedule indeed might've been "the best we could do"....
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/



2019 Kennesaw State Football Schedule


Date

Opponent
Time/TV
Tickets


Saturday
Aug. 31
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/point-university.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/point-university)
Point University Skyhawks (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/point-university)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Sep. 7
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/kent-st.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/kent-state)
at Kent State Golden Flashes (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/kent-state)Dix Stadium, Kent, OH
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Sep. 14
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/alabama-st.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/alabama-state)
at Alabama State Hornets (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/alabama-state)ASU Stadium, Montgomery, AL
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Sep. 21
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/missouri-st.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/missouri-state)
at Missouri State Bears (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/missouri-state)Robert W. Plaster Stadium, Springfield, MO
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Oct. 12
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/charleston-southern.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/charleston-southern)
Charleston Sou. Buccaneers (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/charleston-southern)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Oct. 19
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/presbyterian.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/presbyterian)
at Presbyterian Blue Hose (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/presbyterian)Bailey Memorial Stadium, Clinton, SC
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Oct. 26
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/north-alabama.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/north-alabama)
North Alabama Lions (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/north-alabama)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Nov. 2
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/monmouth.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/monmouth)
Monmouth Hawks (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/monmouth)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Nov. 9
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/campbell.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/campbell)
at Campbell Camels (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/campbell)Barker-Lane Stadium, Buies Creek, NC
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Nov. 16
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/hampton.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/hampton)
at Hampton Pirates (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/hampton)Armstrong Stadium, Hampton, VA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



Saturday
Nov. 23
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/gardner-webb.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/gardner-webb)
Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/gardner-webb)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA



2019 Non-Conference Games - Dates TBA


Date TBA
https://fbschedules.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/shorter.png (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/shorter)
Shorter Hawks (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2019/team/shorter)Fifth Third Bank Stadium, Kennesaw, GA
Time TBA ETTV TBA

[UNAPride]

I think KSU being a newer program and in a pretty saturated market are major factors in their attendance situation.

D2 West GA is also down in attendance and they were ranked in the Top 10 most of the season.

As I mentioned, UNA's attendance has lulled in recent years. Yet, I was a bit surprised (probably more disappointed) to see that home attendance figures at Braly would still have ranked at or near the top of the Big South. But, I get it.

We have always ranked well in D2 attendance but it is down by an average of 3K per year in just the past five or so seasons and that included a national title game run in 2016. Hoping for an uptick with our first DI opponents coming to town next season.


UNA Football Attendance
Year – Average (Rank)

2005 – 8,066 (9)
2006 – 10,051 (4)
2007 – 8,115 (10)
2008 – 9,639 (5)
2009 – 9,389 (5)
2010 – 10,133 (10)
2011 – 9,834 (5)
2012 – 9,798 (7)
2013 – 9,908 (4)
2014 – 9,065 (4)
2015 – 7,970 (5)
2016 – 7,670 (12)
2017 – 7,498 (10)
2018 – 6,755 (TBA)


Here are the past two seasons compared to the Big South.

Big South Football Attendance in 2017

**UNA – 7,498
*Hampton – 7,088
KSU – 6,696
*Campbell – 5,546
Gardner Webb – 4,603
Monmouth – 3,282
Presbyterian – 2,320
Charleston Southern – 2,345

*Not in the Big South in 2017
**UNA was D2 in 2017


Big South Football Attendance in 2018

KSU – 7,156 (w/o JSU game – 5,756)
*UNA – 6,755
*Hampton – 6,527
Campbell – 5,058
Gardner Webb – 3,140
Monmouth – 2,743
Presbyterian – 2,057
Charleston Southern – 1,764

*Independent in 2018

[Reign of Terrier]

If I were Kennesaw I would schedule 2 FBS games. Just go for it. They'll have a chance against Kent State.

[dgtw]

I know UNA had to take what they could get, but it isn’t an ideal situation. They are in one league for football and another for everything else. Big South football could fall apart easily if affiliates find better homes.

I wish the OVC had taken them, but they don’t ask me for advice. The SoCon would be a better place for Jax State, but they aren’t looking for members right now.


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[adamsputnik]

If I were Kennesaw I would schedule 2 FBS games. Just go for it. They'll have a chance against Kent State.

Frankly, I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them.

Not sure what to make of the scheduling, it looks like we had to fill some spots with any warm body willing to fill it.

[FUBeAR]

Frankly, I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them.You should be...



Massey Matchup
Kennesaw (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3766&s=300937)

Kent (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3771&s=300937)



Most Likely Score
29
24


Win Probability
65%
35%

[ksu_owls]

If I were Kennesaw I would schedule 2 FBS games. Just go for it. They'll have a chance against Kent State.

Calls to UGA have not been returned. We have GT on the schedule in a few years. I don't know much about scheduling and I'm sure we could have added better teams but it does sound like we are doing "enough" in trying to schedule good teams that we can at least say "well they cancelled on us/weren't interested" as an excuse. Honestly, I'd much rather face some tough FCS games that matter than FBS games that have very little value in rankings. Plus, with our affiliation in the Big South ending in 2019 we may end up with a much tougher SOS just through whatever conference we land in (assuming we definitely leave the BS).

For the record, in our first four years we did schedule a home/home with Samford (not our fault they ended up sucking), home with JSU, home/home with Furman (2019 moved to 2023), @ Montana St, and unfortunately only one weak FBS team. I don't know if we knew that Coastal and Liberty were moving and I know we had no idea that Chuck South would suck so bad. We had the potential to have a tough(er) schedule.... a lot of things moved/changed.

[kdinva]

Calls to UGA have not been returned. We have GT on the schedule in a few years. I don't know much about scheduling.

future known opponents here:

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/

Kent State next Fall......and in 2020(?).....Owls should win........Ramblin' Wreck in '21..

[ksu_owls]

future known opponents here:

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/

Kent State next Fall......and in 2020(?).....Owls should win........Ramblin' Wreck in '21..

Thanks! I was referring to the process and how much time is needed in advance. I assume it varies from each scheduled game, but we do seem to be off to a slow start with scheduling FBS teams.

[katss07]

Owls should bolt for the CAA.

[CID1990]

Owls should bolt for the CAA.

So their closest road game can be in Burlington, NC?

Doubtful that would be a practical move, even if the CAA wanted them


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[cx500d]

Owls should bolt for the CAA.


They CAAn't

[Reign of Terrier]

I guess this is relevant to this thread: KSU DC reportedly going to Navy

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[citdog]

I guess this is relevant to this thread: KSU DC reportedly going to Navy

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You spelled canoe u incorrectly.

[CID1990]

You spelled canoe u incorrectly.

Who cares what they’re called

They refuse to schedule us ever again .... Army too

[citdog]

Who cares what they’re called

They refuse to schedule us ever again .... Army too

Both hudson high and canoe u's athletic director would field calls from the Vietnamese before The Citadel's athletic director.....

[UNAPride]

future known opponents here:

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/kennesaw-state/

Kent State next Fall......and in 2020(?).....Owls should win........Ramblin' Wreck in '21..

That Tech game should be a great atmosphere!

UNA's future FBS opponents (so far) are BYU in 2020 and Memphis in 2022.

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/north-alabama/

[Birdman_]

The biggest issue I see is the poor attendance. Is support that weak? A school the size of KSU in one of the biggest metros in the country should have much better attendance. I get that it is a new program and it takes time to establish. At least they are winning. But who ever is running the publicity there needs to be fired. Even though we have a tenth of the student body in a small metro area, and had a losing record this year, and are without half our stadium, we had a much higher attendance numbers.

I can actually see KSU move to the SOCON in the near future (2-3 years). That said, we are a conference dominated by good, but small private/public schools (VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Wofford, Samford). Therefore, if KSU were to be added, I think it would require the addition of smaller public or private school as well. Call it a counter weight to KSU, UTC, WCU, ETSU, Mercer.

KSU has always had an issue with participation, whether it be for sports, clubs, or any other school events. I’m not close with this issue, however I understand that Greek life and the school do not get along, and they refuse to support school sanctioned events, unlike other schools where Greek life is often a key catalyst for school pride. What is interesting though is that SO many alumni live within the metro Atlanta area, so if they can figure out a way to make games a part of people’s routines, this whole narrative could dramatically change.

[Birdman_]

I guess this is relevant to this thread: KSU DC reportedly going to Navy

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Looking like Blake Harrell will be the new DC at KSU. He’s basically following the entire KSU coaching staff on Twitter now.

[kperk014]

Well you said everything anybody here needed to know about you by the "I am a fan of Hatcher". That guy does less with more than anybody in the FCS. I know you are new so burn thus in your mind, there is only ONE set of Bulldogs in the SoCon and they perform at General Johnson Hagood Stadium on the banks of the Ashley River in Charleston, SC.

Who is that?

[FUBeAR]

Hey Chuck South peeps...any thoughts on former Bucs Safeties Coach, Mike Adams? He is now the DC @ Mercer.