SoCon 2019 Off-Season

[gofurman]

SoCon Players who are UDFA's or have tryouts with NFL Teams (condensed from smallcollegefootballfan's post)



Pick
Team
Pos
First Name
Last Name
School


Signed
Tennessee
DT
Isaiah
Mack
Chattanooga


Tryout
San Francisco
WR
Joseph
Parker
Chattanooga


Tryout
Cleveland
TE
Evan
Wick
East Tennessee State


Signed
LA Chargers
CB
Bradford
Lemmons
Furman


Tryout
Atlanta
TE
Sam
Walker
Mercer


Signed
Denver
WR
Kelvin
McKnight
Samford


Signed
Denver
OLB
Ahmad
Gooden
Samford


Tryout
NY Giants
QB
Devlin
Hodges
Samford


Tryout
Seattle
OLB
Noah
Dawkins
The Citadel


Signed
Pittsburgh
P
Ian
Berryman
Western Carolina


Tryout
Kansas City
FS
Marvin
Tillman
Western Carolina


Signed
Arizona
DT
Miles
Brown
Wofford


Signed
Tennessee
SS
Jo Jo
Tillery
Wofford





Congrats to all these guys in the SoCon ! Considering those are just the seniors.. it shows that the conference as a whole probably has 25+ Pro-TYPE ( tryout / CFL / NFL ) players.. as in guys who are NFL worthy or at least close and worth a look at a Pro-day

[gofurman]

I think the Ohio connection is still intact. Our assistants, many of whom have been around for a while, still have relationships with the HS coaches.

Fortunately, unlike our basketball coach, when Ayers retired he didn’t take half the staff, recruits, and current players with him.

Y - Wofford always seems to have several Ohio and KY kids.. some of whom have been good pickups

[PaladinFan]

Devlin Hodges signs a contract with Steelers out of rookie minicamp. https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/13/steelers-sign-fcs-phenom-qb-devlin-hodges-to-contract/

Good for him.

- - - Updated - - -


Y - Wofford always seems to have several Ohio and KY kids.. some of whom have been good pickups

Mike Ayers is from Kentucky.

[The Cats]

SoConJohn's 2019 Ranking the running backs......

https://medium.com/@SoConJohn22/socon-football-2019-ranking-the-running-backs-dcc13e80743b


Thoughts....

[PaladinFan]

SoConJohn's 2019 Ranking the running backs......

https://medium.com/@SoConJohn22/socon-football-2019-ranking-the-running-backs-dcc13e80743b


Thoughts....


We've got good ones. This is as probably as deep at RB as the SoCon has been since the Kevin Richardson/Jermaine Austin/Jerome Felton days.

The top three are largely interchangeable to me. Both Holmes and Devezin will put up a lot of volume playing in what have been primarily single back offenses. Wynn is a complete player, but gets fewer touches and shares the backfield with a similarly talented Corey Watkins.

[PaladinNation]

We've got good ones. This is as probably as deep at RB as the SoCon has been since the Kevin Richardson/Jermaine Austin/Jerome Felton days.

The top three are largely interchangeable to me. Both Holmes and Devezin will put up a lot of volume playing in what have been primarily single back offenses. Wynn is a complete player, but gets fewer touches and shares the backfield with a similarly talented Corey Watkins.

I expect Devin Abrams to make some noise - in Furman's scheme Abrams (6-1, 215) is a running back (h-back). I'd look for him to get carries around the goal line. With Abrams athletic ability we could see him break some big runs too.

Darius Morehead has hung up his cleats - so I'd bet incoming freshman Wayne Anderson Jr will get some PT, Anderson is very similar to Wynn, another complete player (1,524 rushing yards and 18 touchdowns, 314 receiving yard and two touchdowns).

The disadvantage for Wynn will be that Furman will have 15 plus players rush the ball.

[PaladinFan]

https://twitter.com/SoConJohn22/status/1129150613240143873

[PaladinNation]

https://twitter.com/SoConJohn22/status/1129150613240143873

ready to make some noise and underrated… Ryan DeLuca

[PaladinFan]

I don't have an issue with the WR rankings. Furman, Wofford, and the Citadel run the ball too much to really have guys vault up those rankings.

I'm interested to see how Shelling and Durden do this season without their WR1s from last season (McKnight and Irvin) drawing a lot of fire.

[FUBeAR]

Just noticed that Mercer has a 3 Star FBS Transfer WR on their roster

https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6915

Seems he was a WCU commit in 2018 until just before signing day when CCU offered. Hopefully, he has 'found a home' now.

Welp...Steven Peterson is not on Mercer’s roster after the latest update of today. Not sure when he came off the roster. Still showing “CCU - Mercer University ‘22” on his Twitter header, but he tweeted his HS Highlights on 6/18/19 & pinned them to the top...so...who knows...seems like he might be looking for a new ‘home.’ Can’t find any other info.

Oh well, thought he might have been a nice add to the Bears, who need to replace the production of Marquis Irvin & Stephen Houzah at WR this year...Durden, Cannon, and Jones return with...



13
Durden, David
11
18
407
22.61
5
75
37.00


80
Cannon, Tucker
11
17
212
12.47
2
36
19.27


17
Jones II, Tony
11
12
128
10.67
1
21
11.64



...47 receptions for 747 yards (15.89/catch!!), and 8 TD’s. I also expect big-body Soph Demond Ellison (6-1/213) to step up, fleet R-SO, Edmond Graham, to return strong from injury, perhaps a couple of FR to contribute, and they have 9 (yes...9!) good-sized TE’s on the roster, including 6-4/247 Sr., Chris Ellington, who started to come into his own late last season, including the GREAT game-winning catch @ Chattanooga. Potential Star QB, R-SO, Robert Riddle, will not lack for targets in 2019.

[PaladinFan]

In my experience, this age group uses Twitter as a means of exposure but doesn't necessarily update their profile often. The online roster is usually the most current information of who is on the team.

As far as WRs, I think Mercer has some talented options. Durden is a good looking player, specifically. While both receivers, Irvin and Durden technically play different positions (or at least did under last year's coordinator).

It is tricky, though, to replace all conference talent, especially at the skill positions. Those guys tend to draw a lot of attention from defenses and help get some of the secondary positions free.

[FUBeAR]

I mentioned this a few weeks ago, I would be concerned if our grad transfers are just taking a couple classes and then leaving. I don't have stats on it. Something I like to know though. I don't know what my threshold on grad school completion percentage would be before crying foul.


My point is that we don't use that many of them. If we did have a big number, I would be concerned. We don't. Ergo, I am not concerned. The whole jersey thing is just a red herring. I am pretty sure that each and every one of these grad transfers believes in those traits as well. We have not had any issues with any of the grad transfers we have had. They were squared away young men, at least the ones I heard speak at press conferences, and I am glad they got to see the Corps up close even if they were not part of it. We will not tie ours hands behind our back by not using a legitimate rule just to please one disgruntled fan from the conference. To be honest I am more concerned with the actual huge numbers of "undergrad" transfers whom seem to bounce around and, which many SOCON schools seem to have no problem adding to their rosters. I think that is a bigger issue and open to legitimate abuse/concern. Yeah, and we got none of them.


I guess we all have different perspectives / tolerances. See, I have NO problem with a kid going to a school, playing a season, taking a grad class or 2 & then moving on. College Football / College Athletics / College Teams are, in FUBeAR’s view, a part of undergraduate education/life. Schools ‘hosting’ Teams primarily as Cash Cows & Marketing/PR entities for their ‘affiliated’ Colleges & PRETENDING that their Players are REALLY part of the College/University (1-&-Done Hoopsters especially & to a lesser extent P5 Footballers) gets under my skin as blatanty hypocritical.

On the other hand, if a University has a Grad School & has several Players, who have already earned their undergraduate degrees, enroll there & play a sport for a season (or 2 nowadays), then those students are, actually, probably MORE involved in the University life than most of their fellow Grad Students. I can’t quote the stats, but my sense is that a very high % of ‘regular’ students who begin grad school do not finish their graduate degrees at the school where they began, if they finish at all - typically at a much higher attrition rate than undergrad students, I suspect. So, I don’t think Universities are (necessarily) being hypocritical by accepting qualified grad students, allowing them to play on their athletics Teams, and not necessarily expecting them to finish their graduate degrees there. I also believe every bit of education is helpful to an individual & maybe some who wouldn’t have gone to grad school without such an opportunity & don’t even plan to finish when they start find that they do want to finish up.

My ‘problem’ (and I would think the Alums “problem”) with The Citadel (or VMI, if they did) following this course is, again, based on the (perceived, maybe?) hypocrisy of all of the ‘trumpeting’ about how “exceptional” their Student Athletes are because of the Military component & particulary having survived their their knob/rat years.

Let’s look at an analogy...What kind of response do we think we would see from CIT Alums if Furman had come out this year in Charleston wearing jerseys with “Honor,” “Duty,” and “Respect” on the backs of their jerseys? I think we might hear and see a few unkind words from those Alums regarding whether or not Furman’s Players deserved or had earned the right to put those words on the backs of their jerseys...the same words as The Citadel’s Players have on the backs of theirs...including the Players that haven’t worn a non-Athletic uniform since their last Den Meeting.

But, you know what, that couldn’t have happened because CIT holds an exception to NCAA rule 1-4-5 ( http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018MFB_FAQ_Uniforms_Contest_Delays_20180921.pdf ) that Furman does not enjoy. There is a reason for this exception, and FUBeAR thinks it’s a good reason, but if those Teams that are defined as “U.S. Military Academies,” are using Players with no past or current connection to the Military, then should the Team be granted this exception? Are they still “exceptional?” How many such Players or what % of such Players is “OK” for them to use and still be thought of by the NCAA as “exception-worthy” & for them to call themselves “exceptional?” FUBeAR thinks that number should be 0 & thinks (apparently, mistakenly) that the Alums would agree.

But as I said in an earlier post, perhaps FUBeAR has held The Citadel Football in too high regard for all these years.

Bellhops continue to channel their inner-Britney Spears...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/Oops%21..._I_Did_It_Again.png/220px-Oops%21..._I_Did_It_Again.png

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-football-adds-transfer-linebacker/article_2ae2eaaa-9852-11e9-b777-afa5d58d142e.html

Citadel football adds transfer linebacker

The Citadel has added a transfer linebacker who will be eligible for the 2019 football season, coach Brent Thompson announced Wednesday.
Airan Reed is a graduate-student transfer from Southern Illinois and will have one season to play for the Bulldogs.


Yep...Another non-Cadet, never-a-knob will take the field wearing the emblems & colors of The Citadel, flaunting an NCAA-allowed rule exception, with “Honor,” “Duty,” or “Respect” emblazoned ‘proudly’ on his jersey.

[PaladinFan]

For some reason, the routine acceptance of grad transfers now by the Citadel feels desperate to me.

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it seems like bringing in ringers is anti-Citadel. It feels like a concession that they are falling behind and cannot keep pace with "old fashioned" recruiting and development. Maybe Brent Thompson is feeling pressure to win now.

[FUBeAR]

For some reason, the routine acceptance of grad transfers now by the Citadel feels desperate to me.

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it seems like bringing in ringers is anti-Citadel. It feels like a concession that they are falling behind and cannot keep pace with "old fashioned" recruiting and development. Maybe Brent Thompson is feeling pressure to win now.I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard Academy, Merchant Marine Academy, or VMI use any Graduate Transfers. That makes, I believe, The Citadel the only D1 Military Academy without a ‘regular student’ Undergraduate Program that does. IMO, The Citadel’s Football Team, at this point, is no different in this regard than Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, and Clemson, and Norwich (Coach Thompson’s Alma Mater); schools that do have a “Corps of Cadets,” but where participation in that Corps is not a requirement of undergraduate attendance. The Citadel, IMO, should not be eligible for the NCAA uniform regulations exemption (and should stop touting the ‘exceptionalism’ (due to their military program) of their Student-Athletes) OR stop using non-Cadets on their Football Team. They should not be able to “have their cake & eat it too,” should they?

https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1343964709192_7062284.png

[walliver]

The Citadel has become very aggressive at graduate transfers in basketball (where player retention is a major issue). They even had issues this year when one of their scholar graduate students announced he was dropping courses before the conference tournament began.

In football, there were the days of one-and-done graduate QB's (Jeff Klein and Willie Simmons).

The competitive problem the Citadel has is that a lot of players don't adapt well to the toy soldier lifestyle and leave.

I would like to know what percentage of football graduate transfers return for their second semester.

[FUBeAR]

Southern Pigskin has named their Top 50 SoCon Players for 2019... http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-top-50/

FUBeAR prefers to look at it this way...

Rank Player Position School
1 Tyree Robinson DB ETSU
2 Justus Basinger OL Wofford
3 Tyrie Adams QB Western Carolina
4 Nasir Player DL ETSU
5 Adrian Hope LB Furman
6 Quay Holmes RB ETSU
7 Bryce Nunnelly WR Chattanooga
8 Austin Sanders OL Mercer
9 Chris Shelling WR Samford
10 Bo Layton OL Furman
11 Owen Cosenke TE Western Carolina
12 Jeremy Lewis DB ETSU
13 Joseph Randolph DL The Citadel
14 Brandon Dowdell DB Chattanooga
15 Michael Ralph OL Wofford
16 Nathan Walker RB Wofford
17 George Gbesee DB Wofford
18 Kris Thornton WR VMI
19 Marshall Cooper LB Chattanooga
20 Blake Jeresaty OL Wofford
21 Nick Nixon OL Samford
22 Malique Fleming DB Mercer
23 Thad Mangum DL Wofford
24 Jason Maduafokwa DL ETSU
25 Andy Godwin OL Furman
26 Josh Burger OL Wofford
27 AJ Smith DB VMI
28 Tyray Devezin RB Mercer
29 Nick Tiano, QB QB Chattanooga
30 David Durden WR Mercer
31 Ronald Kent DB Western Carolina
32 Jalen Nash DL Samford
33 Will Coneway LB Mercer
34 Noah Ramsey OL Chattanooga
35 Grayson Atkins K Furman
36 Mikel Horton DL Wofford
37 Jacob Saylors RB ETSU
38 Haden Haas OL The Citadel
39 Chris Beverly DB The Citadel
40 Tre'Shun Floyd LB Samford
41 Matthew Campbell P The Citadel
42 Justin Foster DL Samford
43 Javeon Lara WR VMI
44 Devin Wynn RB Furman
45 Daquan Patten WR Western Carolina
46 Elijah McKoy LB Furman
47 Tre'Mond Shorts OL ETSU
48 Bo McKinney OL Furman
49 Ty Harris LB Western Carolina
50 Dante Smith RB The Citadel

or...in a sense, they have selected a de facto Pre-Season All SoCon Team...

Rank Player O/D/S Position All SoCon Team School
1 Tyree Robinson D DB 1st ETSU
12 Jeremy Lewis D DB 1st ETSU
14 Brandon Dowdell D DB 1st Chattanooga
17 George Gbesee D DB 1st Wofford

22 Malique Fleming D DB 2nd Mercer
27 AJ Smith D DB 2nd VMI
31 Ronald Kent D DB 2nd Western Carolina
39 Chris Beverly D DB 2nd The Citadel

4 Nasir Player D DL 1st ETSU
13 Joseph Randolph D DL 1st The Citadel
23 Thad Mangum D DL 1st Wofford
24 Jason Maduafokwa D DL 1st ETSU

32 Jalen Nash D DL 2nd Samford
36 Mikel Horton D DL 2nd Wofford
42 Justin Foster D DL 2nd Samford

5 Adrian Hope D LB 1st Furman
19 Marshall Cooper D LB 1st Chattanooga
33 Will Coneway D LB 1st Mercer

40 Tre'Shun Floyd D LB 2nd Samford
46 Elijah McKoy D LB 2nd Furman
49 Ty Harris D LB 2nd Western Carolina


2 Justus Basinger O OL 1st Wofford
8 Austin Sanders O OL 1st Mercer
10 Bo Layton O OL 1st Furman
15 Michael Ralph O OL 1st Wofford
20 Blake Jeresaty O OL 1st Wofford

21 Nick Nixon O OL 2nd Samford
25 Andy Godwin O OL 2nd Furman
26 Josh Burger O OL 2nd Wofford
34 Noah Ramsey O OL 2nd Chattanooga
38 Haden Haas O OL 2nd The Citadel

47 Tre'Mond Shorts O OL 3rd ETSU
48 Bo McKinney O OL 3rd Furman

3 Tyrie Adams O QB 1st Western Carolina
29 Nick Tiano, QB O QB 2nd Chattanooga

6 Quay Holmes O RB 1st ETSU
16 Nathan Walker O RB 1st Wofford

28 Tyray Devezin O RB 2nd Mercer
37 Jacob Saylors O RB 2nd ETSU

44 Devin Wynn O RB 3rd Furman
50 Dante Smith O RB 3rd The Citadel

11 Owen Cosenke O TE 1st Western Carolina

7 Bryce Nunnelly O WR 1st Chattanooga
9 Chris Shelling O WR 1st Samford
18 Kris Thornton O WR 1st VMI

30 David Durden O WR 2nd Mercer
43 Javeon Lara O WR 2nd VMI
45 Daquan Patten O WR 2nd Western Carolina


35 Grayson Atkins S K 1st Furman

41 Matthew Campbell S P 1st The Citadel

[PaladinFan]

Typical Southern Pigskin stuff - throw out a ranking without any discussion or rationale behind it.

I particularly like Wofford's Nathan Walker at 16, Furman's Devin Wynn at 44, and Mercer's Tyray Devezin at 28.

Walker: 13 games, 77 attempts, 547 yards, 3 tds, 7.1 ypc, 42.1 ypg.
Wynn: 10 games, 113 attempts 722, 6 tds, 6.4 ypc, 72.2 ypg
Devezin: 11 games, 164 attempts, 926 yards, 8 tds, 5.6 ypc, 84.2 ypg

I'm not sure how you have Quay Holmes as #6 and the two guys most like him dozens of spots beneath him and a backup fullback well ahead of the other two.

[PaladinNation]

Thomas Gordon had a down year last season - due to Furman's QB situation. I don't expect that to happen in 2019. IMO a big miss on Gordon.

PaladinFan beat me to it — I would rank Wynn higher than 44 - I see Wynn as a top three running back in the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

Thomas Gordon had a down year last season - due to Furman's QB situation. I don't expect that to happen in 2019. IMO a big miss on Gordon.

PaladinFan beat me to it — I would rank Wynn higher than 44 - I see Wynn as a top three running back in the SoCon.

Any ranking is going to leave room for debate. I just don't see a great argument supporting their placement of running backs.

The good news for SoCon fans is that for the first time in a while, this conference is stocked with talented running backs.

[gofurman]

If you go by the rankings above (which are a little sketchy)...

ETSU has the DBs

Wofford / ETSU and Samford have the DL

Furman has the LBs

Wofford and Furman have the OL

Western and Chatt have the QBs (you won't get any argument from me on Tyrie Adams!)

ETSU has the best RBs

WCU has the best TE (they only listed one so that's a little tough)

VMI has the best WRs - see my note later

Furman has the best PK and Citadel w the best P

-the thing is its a TEAM game. I'll take 5 good OL vs one stellar OL guy and 4 bad OL any day. Thus VMI remaining winless in the SoCon last year - two very good WRs and a good QB but 22 vs 22 they can't hold up. Furman scored at will on them for the most part. That has to be Western's concern this year. Adams may be the most dangerous guy in the conference but the D is not good and they lost 4 of their 5 OL from last year.

[SU DOG]

If you go by the rankings above (which are a little sketchy)...

ETSU has the DBs

Wofford / ETSU and Samford have the DL

Furman has the LBs

Wofford and Furman have the OL

Western and Chatt have the QBs (you won't get any argument from me on Tyrie Adams!)

ETSU has the best RBs

WCU has the best TE (they only listed one so that's a little tough)

VMI has the best WRs - see my note later

Furman has the best PK and Citadel w the best P

-the thing is its a TEAM game. I'll take 5 good OL vs one stellar OL guy and 4 bad OL any day. Thus VMI remaining winless in the SoCon last year - two very good WRs and a good QB but 22 vs 22 they can't hold up. Furman scored at will on them for the most part. That has to be Western's concern this year. Adams may be the most dangerous guy in the conference but the D is not good and they lost 4 of their 5 OL from last year.

I hope you are right about our D-Line, but our losses there were very heavy(heavy in more ways than one LOL). On the other hand, our O-Line will be very good, and IMO, should be near the top of the conference. As for WRs, we have the best group period - not even close. I suppose that is a requirement for our type of offense. This is going to be an interesting year in the SoCon. I really think the conference is going to be stronger overall than it has been in many years.

[PaladinFan]

I hope you are right about our D-Line, but our losses there were very heavy(heavy in more ways than one LOL). On the other hand, our O-Line will be very good, and IMO, should be near the top of the conference. As for WRs, we have the best group period - not even close. I suppose that is a requirement for our type of offense. This is going to be an interesting year in the SoCon. I really think the conference is going to be stronger overall than it has been in many years.

There's no doubt that Samford has quality WRs.

I think the issue is more about what sort of gap there's going to be between Hodges and whomever is the starter this season. Shelling is a great player, for instance, but will he be as productive without Kelvin McKnight drawing double coverage and a QB that could put the ball on a dime?

[Milktruck74]

Pre-Season....will look much different in November....Injuries and actual stats!!!!!

[FUBeAR]

Welp...Steven Peterson is not on Mercer’s roster after the latest update of today. Not sure when he came off the roster. Still showing “CCU - Mercer University ‘22” on his Twitter header, but he tweeted his HS Highlights on 6/18/19 & pinned them to the top...so...who knows...seems like he might be looking for a new ‘home.’ Can’t find any other info.

Oh well, thought he might have been a nice add to the Bears, who need to replace the production of Marquis Irvin & Stephen Houzah at WR this year...Durden, Cannon, and Jones return with...



13
Durden, David
11
18
407
22.61
5
75
37.00


80
Cannon, Tucker
11
17
212
12.47
2
36
19.27


17
Jones II, Tony
11
12
128
10.67
1
21
11.64



...47 receptions for 747 yards (15.89/catch!!), and 8 TD’s. I also expect big-body Soph Demond Ellison (6-1/213) to step up, fleet R-SO, Edmond Graham, to return strong from injury, perhaps a couple of FR to contribute, and they have 9 (yes...9!) good-sized TE’s on the roster, including 6-4/247 Sr., Chris Ellington, who started to come into his own late last season, including the GREAT game-winning catch @ Chattanooga. Potential Star QB, R-SO, Robert Riddle, will not lack for targets in 2019.

Welp 2.0...Steven Peterson back on Mercer’s roster... https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7287 - no number assigned, but he’s on there. As previously stated (before being retracted), I think he might provide some help to Mercer’s WR corps this season...assuming he can stop yo-yo’ing off & on the roster.

BTW...I was thinking about matchups today. Can SoCon DB’s & LB’s match up with Mercer’s WR’s size, particularly if they decide to deploy a 4 or 5-Wide BIG package & incorporate some of their ‘flex’ TE’s in those personnel groupings...If a couple of these FR (Flex) TE’s are as good as I think they are, I see 1 possible, reasonable grouping where the Bears could go 5 wide & average 6-3 / 224 with their Wides. The Falcons’ All-Everything FREAK WR, Julio Jones, is 6-3/220. Just sayin’...



#
FULL NAME
POS.
HT.
WT.
YEAR
PREVIOUS SCHOOL


13
David Durden (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6830)
WR
6-2
197
So.



17
Tony Jones II (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6859)
WR
6-0
183
So.



49
Dash Hairston (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6851)
WR
6-2
177
R-Fr.



80
Tucker Cannon (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6820)
WR
6-0
192
R-Jr.



84
DeMond Ellison (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6833)
WR
6-1
213
So.



85
JD Pirris (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6879)
WR
6-2
181
R-So.




Steven Peterson (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7287)
WR
6-2
185
R-Fr.
Coastal Carolina


30
Nick Pirris (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7154)
TE (Flex)
6-3
215
Fr.



47
Sam Veltman (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6892)
TE
6-2
251
R-Fr.
Idaho


86
Justin Bray (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6902)
TE (Flex)
6-3
227
Fr.



87
Pedro Rodriguez (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6900)
TE (Flex)
6-2
235
Fr.



88
Chris Ellington (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6831)
TE (Flex)
6-4
247
Sr.



89
Chase Westfall (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6894)
TE
6-3
255
R-Sr.


* Returning Starters or ‘Regulars’ in Bold
** “Flex” is FUBeAR’s designation based upon how they have been used at Mercer and/or were used in HS, i.e., quite often split out from the OT’s by 3+ yards or more.

https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.net/sidearm.sites/mercer.sidearmsports.com/images/2018/9/22/Durden_TD_Catch_WEB.jpg

[PaladinFan]

It is difficult at the FCS level to look only at measurables.

Typically, big receivers at this level are lacking a significant speed component to their game. If you look at the all-time receiving records in the conference, the leader board is populated mostly by shifty guys under 6' tall (Andre Roberts, Kelvin McKnight, Davon Fowlkes, Terryon Robinson). There are a couple of exceptions (Terrell Hudgins at Elon was a horse).

[JSUSoutherner]

Pre-Season....will look much different in November....Injuries and actual stats!!!!!
Also the demoralization from a beatdown at the hands of your OVC overlords.

Takes a toll, I'm sure.

[Milktruck74]

With age comes experience and wisdom. When you get old enough to move out of your mom’s trailer, you might be able to add something intelligent to the conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

With age comes experience and wisdom. When you get old enough to move out of your mom’s trailer, you might be able to add something intelligent to the conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
C'mon man, lighten up.

Besides, I'm nothing compared to Chattown of old. At least I have a reason I can be smug.

[FUBeAR]

It is difficult at the FCS level to look only at measurables.

Typically, big receivers at this level are lacking a significant speed component to their game. If you look at the all-time receiving records in the conference, the leader board is populated mostly by shifty guys under 6' tall (Andre Roberts, Kelvin McKnight, Davon Fowlkes, Terryon Robinson). There are a couple of exceptions (Terrell Hudgins at Elon was a horse).Yeah...unrelated.

Topic is MATCHUPS. The only one of any of the Mercer WR/Flex TE’s that I could see, at this point, being a multi-year Star & stats-grabber is Durden.

I’m talking about defending a SoCon offense that puts 5 Julio Jones-sized WR’s (who can play...Gonzalez’ & Bray’s abilities as yet unproven, but their HS tapes gets FUBeAR’s 2-Snaps-Up rating) out wide or spreads 4 of them out & has the pounding Devezin in the backfield, along with Riddle, who really can scamper.

Not sure if SoCon D’s can matchup with that, physically. They can, of course, outplay it & that Offense can, of course, discharge rounds into their own Adidas cleats...but, physically, matching up...I don’t know. I hope the Bears do trot out a BIG personnel group a few times up in Cullowhee on 8/31 just to see how it goes.

[Milktruck74]

C'mon man, lighten up.

Besides, I'm nothing compared to Chattown of old. At least I have a reason I can be smug.

I probably should have put a smiley emoji (but I have testicles). I’m always light!!!! I will give you that you are not Chattown...of course, I think he was actually a fan from another squad....probably JSU.....hell, you probably are Chattown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

I probably should have put a smiley emoji (but I have testicles). I’m always light!!!! I will give you that you are not Chattown...of course, I think he was actually a fan from another squad....probably JSU.....hell, you probably are Chattown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Uh oh... I've been found out...

Time to find a new fake identity...

[PaladinFan]

Yeah...unrelated.

Topic is MATCHUPS. The only one of any of the Mercer WR/Flex TE’s that I could see, at this point, being a multi-year Star & stats-grabber is Durden.

I’m talking about defending a SoCon offense that puts 5 Julio Jones-sized WR’s (who can play...Gonzalez’ & Bray’s abilities as yet unproven, but their HS tapes gets FUBeAR’s 2-Snaps-Up rating) out wide or spreads 4 of them out & has the pounding Devezin in the backfield, along with Riddle, who really can scamper.

Not sure if SoCon D’s can matchup with that, physically. They can, of course, outplay it & that Offense can, of course, discharge rounds into their own Adidas cleats...but, physically, matching up...I don’t know. I hope the Bears do trot out a BIG personnel group a few times up in Cullowhee on 8/31 just to see how it goes.

I guess I just don't see the argument.

Mercer could put 5 tallish/biggish WR/TE/Flex types on the field and probably do their offense a disservice. There's a reason most teams don't do that (particularly at the FCS level where tall/big/fast WRs are exceptions and not rules).

But, to your point, I don't think it would necessarily be a matchup problem against Furman. The Paladins start a 6'4 216 lbs safety, Bryan Okeh, who by himself is bigger than virtually every WR in the league. Furman also starts Quan Weems at CB, who at 6'1 187, isn't a shrimp.

[Mocs123]

Now Mercer may run that personnel grouping and run all over the SoCon with it, but I doubt it. A couple of years ago we had a player transfer in from MTSU, who had played BB as a power forward for MTSU and decided he wanted to play FB instead. He'd been a TE in High School and was 6-8 240. My mind immediately went to the red zone where a tight end that size ought to be a huge mismatch and a impact player. For whatever reason, they had him play DE in a reserve roll and he never made an impact on the field. Now, as an armchair coach, that seemed like a waste of a potential resource, but surely even Arth and his staff had that run through their head and at least gave it a try in practice. Obviously they didn't think it would be effective for whatever reason and they put him on defense.

[Reign of Terrier]

If we're going to talk wide receivers, I think Wofford signed like 4 or 5 with this recruiting class. I still don't know what that means, and we are actually a little thin at RB (relatively), which isn't good bc we have had at least one RB hurt in or going into the playoffs the last two seasons (Morgan, Stoddard, McAfee)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Now Mercer may run that personnel grouping and run all over the SoCon with it, but I doubt it. A couple of years ago we had a player transfer in from MTSU, who had played BB as a power forward for MTSU and decided he wanted to play FB instead. He'd been a TE in High School and was 6-8 240. My mind immediately went to the red zone where a tight end that size ought to be a huge mismatch and a impact player. For whatever reason, they had him play DE in a reserve roll and he never made an impact on the field. Now, as an armchair coach, that seemed like a waste of a potential resource, but surely even Arth and his staff had that run through their head and at least gave it a try in practice. Obviously they didn't think it would be effective for whatever reason and they put him on defense.

In the FCS, how often do you actually see a jump ball thrown in the end zone? Almost never?

I realize we are talking in the hypothetical, but who is harder to cover - a taller, slower, less agile receiver or a shorter, quicker, faster one? I think Kelvin McKnight has the answer from yesterday's practice with Denver:

https://twitter.com/RyanCBS4/status/1153359341606625280

Ideally, at the FCS level, you want both types of players: bigger guys that can be obstacles downfield and the smaller slippery guys that do all the pass catching.

[PaladinFan]

If we're going to talk wide receivers, I think Wofford signed like 4 or 5 with this recruiting class. I still don't know what that means, and we are actually a little thin at RB (relatively), which isn't good bc we have had at least one RB hurt in or going into the playoffs the last two seasons (Morgan, Stoddard, McAfee)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

For whatever reason, teams tend to carry a bunch of WRs. Furman, a decidedly run-heavy team, has 11 on its roster. I think they've already had two commit for 2019 (and graduate only 1).

My guess at this level teams tend to load up on WRs and Safeties. They tend to be good athletes and can be moved around if necessary and contribute on special teams. If you need depth a on a team, you are probably more apt to spend a roster spot on athletes that can potentially play numerous positions and can cover a punt.

That makes sense to me. FCS teams have fewer scholarships to play with, so they need to construct their roster with a few Swiss army knives. Most of those guys are likely to be safeties and receivers.

[FUBeAR]

Now Mercer may run that personnel grouping and run all over the SoCon with it, but I doubt it. A couple of years ago we had a player transfer in from MTSU, who had played BB as a power forward for MTSU and decided he wanted to play FB instead. He'd been a TE in High School and was 6-8 240. My mind immediately went to the red zone where a tight end that size ought to be a huge mismatch and a impact player. For whatever reason, they had him play DE in a reserve roll and he never made an impact on the field. Now, as an armchair coach, that seemed like a waste of a potential resource, but surely even Arth and his staff had that run through their head and at least gave it a try in practice. Obviously they didn't think it would be effective for whatever reason and they put him on defense.
Yeah - I remember him. Played exactly like a basketball player playing Football (yes - I know there examples of college hoops players becoming NFL stars)...but my point is not about 1 WR/TE or 2 guys that a D can match up with.

My question is...do SoCon D’s have 4, maybe 5 guys that can match up with 4, maybe 5 6-3/220 WR’s (that ARE Football Players), who have proven they can run a bit, play in space, and can catch the ball...some in college & a couple only at high level HS ball (so far)? Can they do that AND stop the run with only 5...maybe 6, in the box?

These articles kinda sorta get into some of the concepts around the question.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/3/2/17071196/a-new-kind-of-slot-receiver-in-the-spread-hybrids-mark-andrews-flex-te-urban-meyer-lincoln-riley (https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/3/2/17071196/a-new-kind-of-slot-receiver-in-the-spread-hybrids-mark-andrews-flex-te-urban-meyer-lincoln-riley)

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2019/6/4/18649511/stopping-players-not-formations-part-ii-matchup-quarters-tcu-4-2-5-ruffin-mcneil-texas-oklahoma

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2019/4/5/18295457/positionless-offense-and-the-21-spread-hybrids-spread-i

[PaladinNation]

speaking of WR - by the look of the offers and commitments Furman is building a stable of RB/SB and WR/SB. Morehead played that position when healthy he could go RB/SB/WR he also was a matchup nightmare for Wofford. Not sure why but that game proved to be one of the most successful games for Furman offensively - I can put on my purple glasses and say it was due to the quarterback musical chairs and often a small playbook due to experience. My point related to Mercer and going big receivers, how will they be schemed, and what does it produce on the field and how will the SoCon defenses respond.

[PaladinFan]

Yeah - I remember him. Played exactly like a basketball player playing Football (yes - I know there examples of college hoops players becoming NFL stars)...but my point is not about 1 WR/TE or 2 guys that a D can match up with.

My question is...do SoCon D’s have 4, maybe 5 guys that can match up with 4, maybe 5 6-3/220 WR’s (that ARE Football Players), who have proven they can run a bit, play in space, and can catch the ball...some in college & a couple only at high level HS ball (so far)? Can they do that AND stop the run with only 5...maybe 6, in the box?

These articles kinda sorta get into some of the concepts around the question.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/3/2/17071196/a-new-kind-of-slot-receiver-in-the-spread-hybrids-mark-andrews-flex-te-urban-meyer-lincoln-riley (https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/3/2/17071196/a-new-kind-of-slot-receiver-in-the-spread-hybrids-mark-andrews-flex-te-urban-meyer-lincoln-riley)

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2019/6/4/18649511/stopping-players-not-formations-part-ii-matchup-quarters-tcu-4-2-5-ruffin-mcneil-texas-oklahoma

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2019/4/5/18295457/positionless-offense-and-the-21-spread-hybrids-spread-i

I'll bite. I guess this just makes a lot of assumptions.

First, given the list you identified earlier, Mercer doesn't have 4 or 5 6'3 220 WRs. They don't have a listed WR over 6'2.

Second, of that group, there are only 5 that caught a pass last season, only one of whom is a TE (flex or not). So, it is a bit of a stretch to assume that all of these guys are going to be running down the field catching passes.

Third, they may be football players, but TEs in the 250+ range are not likely going to be able to "run a bit." Most TEs of that size at the FCS level are going to eventually be on the OL. So, I do not necessarily see that as a matchup problem for a linebacker or safety.

Fourth, this is not novel. This "flex" offense is essentially what Furman runs - 21 personnel with a "flex" TE.

Example (TE in backfield)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1150064943896489985

Example (TE on the line)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1058784929532698624

Example (TE split wide - top of the screen)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1053740485917913093

[FUBeAR]

I'll bite. I guess this just makes a lot of assumptions.

First, given the list you identified earlier, Mercer doesn't have 4 or 5 6'3 220 WRs. They don't have a listed WR over 6'2.

Second, of that group, there are only 5 that caught a pass last season, only one of whom is a TE (flex or not). So, it is a bit of a stretch to assume that all of these guys are going to be running down the field catching passes.

Third, they may be football players, but TEs in the 250+ range are not likely going to be able to "run a bit." Most TEs of that size at the FCS level are going to eventually be on the OL. So, I do not necessarily see that as a matchup problem for a linebacker or safety.

Fourth, this is not novel. This "flex" offense is essentially what Furman runs - 21 personnel with a "flex" TE.

Example (TE in backfield)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1150064943896489985

Example (TE on the line)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1058784929532698624

Example (TE split wide - top of the screen)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1053740485917913093Yes. You’re right, dear.

[FUBeAR]

Yes. You’re right, dear.that’s my standard response at work when Mrs. FUBeAR calls with the latest near-disaster...



#
FULL NAME
POS.
HT.
WT.
YEAR


13
David Durden (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6830)
WR
6-2
197
So.


84
DeMond Ellison (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6833)
WR
6-1
213
So.


86
Justin Bray (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6902)
TE
6-3
227
Fr.


87
Pedro Rodriguez (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6900)
TE
6-2
235
Fr.


88
Chris Ellington (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6831)
TE
6-4
247
Sr.



5 wide = 6-2.4 / 223.8 AVERAGE
4 wide = 6-2.25 / 223 AVERAGE (Take Bray off the field & insert Devezin in the backfield)

Durden & Ellington are proven. Ellison was raw coming out of a not-very-good 6-A program in GA. He is talented and showed some raw ability in 2018. He was recruited to replace Marquis Irvin & I think he will be a fine Player for the Bears for the next 3 years.

Rodriguez & Bray are certainly unproven college Players. That said, FUBeAR likes their videos...A LOT.

Rodriguez played 8A (highest classification) Football in the talent-rich Orlando area & was named 1st Team Orlando Sentinel All-Area TE in 2017 & 1st Team WR in 2018. He caught a few balls for the Lake Mary Rams in his tenure there.



Year (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Grade (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Team (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
GP (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Rec (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Yds (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Avg (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Y/G (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
Lng (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)
TD (https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/pedro-rodriguez/PqfJ5xKzEea-8KA2nzwbTA/gendersport/football-stats.htm#)


18-19
Senior
Varsity
10
58
749
12.9
74.9
91
5


17-18
Junior
Varsity
10
35
596
17.0
59.6
62
9


Total


20
93
1345
14.5
67.3
91
14



Bray didn’t put up Rodriguez-like stats as he was more of a Defensive star in the tough Private School Leagues of Memphis & Nashville, battling with Schools such as Christ Presbyterian Academy, coached by Furman’s own, Ingle Martin. Holding 2 FBS offers to play DE/OLB, he wanted to play on the other side of the ball in college, so Mercer was happy to scoop him up as a TE. If he has the hands, he will be a dang good one!

While your chosen examples fail to capture anything resembling a SoCon Offense spreading out a Defense with this kind of overall size and (quite possibly) talent, you are correct that the offense is not novel. That’s why I included the EDUCATIONAL articles for you to read & educate yourself beyond re-posting the same clips from Furman’s Twitter feed for the 9,999,999 time.

[PaladinFan]

Local write-ups:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/furman/2019/07/23/furman-football-loaded-potential-but-qb-position-big-variable/1793339001/


“I think we’ve got some good depth that we haven’t had at all – both in numbers and a little bit in experience,” Hendrix said. “Probably, obviously, the glaring one is the quarterback position. I like who we have at that position, but we’re lacking some experience. I like where those kids are. I like who they are.”

[gofurman]

Local write-ups:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/furman/2019/07/23/furman-football-loaded-potential-but-qb-position-big-variable/1793339001/

I think we’ve got some good depth that we haven’t had at all – both in numbers and a little bit in experience,” Hendrix said. “Probably, obviously, the glaring one is the quarterback position. I like who we have at that position, but we’re lacking some experience. I like where those kids are. I like who they are.”

-- that's all I have been trying to say; We may have a superstar.. it's just the least proven vs RBs (Wynn) or WRs (Gordon) or OL (all 5)... or DL (Tibbs and Hodge played a lot) or LB (Perryman, McKoy, Hope, all return) or DBs (Trapp, Okeh Weems)

Everywhere else we return several starters. QB is probably a transfer (Shiflett) or a R-Fr (Grainger or Sisson) who played at most 4 games

[The Cats]

SoputhernPigskins SoCon Preseason Poll




www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/ (http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/)


1. Wofford

2. Furman

3. ETSU

4. Mercer

5. Chattanooga

6. Western Carolina

7. Samford

8. The Citadel

9. VMI

thoughts ???

[gofurman]

SoputhernPigskins SoCon Preseason Poll




www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/ (http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/)


1. Wofford

2. Furman

3. ETSU

4. Mercer

5. Chattanooga

6. Western Carolina

7. Samford

8. The Citadel

9. VMI

thoughts ???


I suspect Citadel will finish a little higher and may replace Western - I just struggle w WCU losing 4 of 5 OL and 2 of 3 DL... Hope my Furman guys beat Samford but Ill believe it when I see it... Samford has beaten us 5 of last 6

Top 5 teams are very close to each other - Chatt just needs better coaching

[gofurman]

SoputhernPigskins SoCon Preseason Poll




www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/ (http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/2019-socon-preseason-poll/)


1. Wofford

2. Furman

3. ETSU

4. Mercer

5. Chattanooga

6. Western Carolina

7. Samford

8. The Citadel

9. VMI

thoughts ???


I believe Mr Ross is incorrect on one point - I saw that " Citadel did additionally lose DE Mason Kinsey, who is no longer with the program. Kinsey was a SoCon All-Freshman pick last fall. so that makes 5 guys lost on the Defensive side of the ball" .. so that is one guy Robbie lists that was good and Citadel will not have this coming year

[Milktruck74]

I really believe my Mocs are better than 5th, but it seems fair given how they finished last season and a coaching change. I’m satisfied with this preseason ranking, but I won’t be satisfied if we actually finish that low after the games are played.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

Ya know, I picked Furman to win the socon, and I will stick by it unless and until my Terriers can beat them (or Samford, for that matter), but the more I look at it, the more I like Wofford, beyond just being a homer.

2/3 of the two deep are Juniors and seniors, we bring back most everyone from the two deep from an offense that was easily the best in the last decade, and will continue to evolve under Conklin.

We bring back pretty much all of our Linebackers, are best cover corner, a safety that was voted all conference, two all conference DL, and pretty much the entire coaching staff.

Yeah we lost Stoddard (who didn't play the last 3 games of the year) and McAfee (who was nothing short of electrict. We lost Miles Brown and Jojo Tillery and Devon Watson and Domo Lemon. But our defense last year had the most players in the country with 30+ tackles, Nathan Walker is a stud at FB and Blake Morgan is easily the most underrated running back in the conference who gets 0 love from anyone outside of the Terrier faithful.

To be honest, I really don't think we will lose to VMI, SC state, or Gardner Webb. Call me arrogant, but those teams are consistently ranked in the bottom quarter of the subdivision. Given all of the above, I think it's unlikely we lose to those teams and given that they're front loaded on the schedule, there's no reason to look past them either.

This schedule is optimized to take one game at a time more than previous years. The Socon is going to be a buzzsaw, but the only game I see where a team could beat us because we are looking ahead to next week (i.e they have the capability if Wofford plays a bad game due to lack of focus) is Mercer, looking ahead to Furman.

Between the experience and proven grit of this Wofford team, I can see why they're the favorite. But I won't feel like they are until we beat Samford and Furman.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

the only game I see where a team could beat us because we are looking ahead to next week (i.e they have the capability if Wofford plays a bad game due to lack of focus) is Mercer, looking ahead to Furman.

So...in Macon, where, in the past 70+ years, half of the games between these 2 Teams have been decided in OT and Wofford’s winning margins have never exceeded one point, the ONLY way that Mercer can win is if Wofford plays a bad game.

The talent level of the Terriers is clearly that superior over the talent level of the Bears, huh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLOnrmVmRs

[PaladinFan]

Wofford needs to be working round the clock on defending Mecer's 5 WR look with their 6'3 220 Julio Jones look-a-likes. It's coming, so better prepare now.

[JSUSoutherner]

Wofford needs to be working round the clock on defending Mecer's 5 WR look with their 6'3 220 Julio Jones look-a-likes. It's coming, so better prepare now.
Last time we played a "Julio Jones" we beat them like 34-3 or something. Just because they are big and tall doesn't mean they are good.

[PaladinFan]

Ya know, I picked Furman to win the socon, and I will stick by it unless and until my Terriers can beat them (or Samford, for that matter), but the more I look at it, the more I like Wofford, beyond just being a homer.

2/3 of the two deep are Juniors and seniors, we bring back most everyone from the two deep from an offense that was easily the best in the last decade, and will continue to evolve under Conklin.

We bring back pretty much all of our Linebackers, are best cover corner, a safety that was voted all conference, two all conference DL, and pretty much the entire coaching staff.

Yeah we lost Stoddard (who didn't play the last 3 games of the year) and McAfee (who was nothing short of electrict. We lost Miles Brown and Jojo Tillery and Devon Watson and Domo Lemon. But our defense last year had the most players in the country with 30+ tackles, Nathan Walker is a stud at FB and Blake Morgan is easily the most underrated running back in the conference who gets 0 love from anyone outside of the Terrier faithful.

To be honest, I really don't think we will lose to VMI, SC state, or Gardner Webb. Call me arrogant, but those teams are consistently ranked in the bottom quarter of the subdivision. Given all of the above, I think it's unlikely we lose to those teams and given that they're front loaded on the schedule, there's no reason to look past them either.

This schedule is optimized to take one game at a time more than previous years. The Socon is going to be a buzzsaw, but the only game I see where a team could beat us because we are looking ahead to next week (i.e they have the capability if Wofford plays a bad game due to lack of focus) is Mercer, looking ahead to Furman.

Between the experience and proven grit of this Wofford team, I can see why they're the favorite. But I won't feel like they are until we beat Samford and Furman.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I don't disagree with you.

I think Wofford is going to miss Miles Brown sorely. Even if you told me they would return the remaining 10 defensive starters (which they don't), he'd be a big loss.

I went back and watched some of the Wofford game highlights. It is easy to under-appreciate a guy like Brown. He led the team in TFLs and sacks. He occupies at least two blockers on nearly every play. Wofford would move him around to gain matchups. I saw a few times where Brown would be double-teamed, push the offensive line back and end up occupying three blockers. That, as you can imagine, opens a lot of doors for other players on defense. He makes everyone better simply by sucking up so much attention from the offense.

[FUBeAR]

I don't disagree with you.

I think Wofford is going to miss Miles Brown sorely. Even if you told me they would return the remaining 10 defensive starters (which they don't), he'd be a big loss.

I went back and watched some of the Wofford game highlights. It is easy to under-appreciate a guy like Brown. He led the team in TFLs and sacks. He occupies at least two blockers on nearly every play. Wofford would move him around to gain matchups. I saw a few times where Brown would be double-teamed, push the offensive line back and end up occupying three blockers. That, as you can imagine, opens a lot of doors for other players on defense. He makes everyone better simply by sucking up so much attention from the offense.Miles Brown was the ONLY reason Wofford’s always-quite-superiorly-talented Team won @ Mercer in 2015...when he was ‘only’ a True Freshman...


Quarter #4


1st and GOAL at WOF04
Payton Usher rush for loss of 2 yards to the WOF6 (Miles Brown;Daryl Vining).


2nd and GOAL at WOF06
Tee Mitchell rush for no gain to the WOF6 (Miles Brown;D. Michaelson).


3rd and GOAL at WOF06
Tee Mitchell rush for no gain to the WOF6 (John Patterson;Dylan Young). Brown didn’t get tackle credit, but he completely blew up this play too!


4th and GOAL at WOF06
Jagger Lieb field goal attempt from 23 GOOD, clock 00:03. Wofford 27-27 Mercer



...and...Mercer goes on to lose 34-33 in OT on a missed XP...after scoring a TD Pass on the 1st play of the 1st possession in OT.

Of course FUBeAR thinks if Mercer’s All SoCon R-SR FBS Transfer OG hadn’t left this game earlier with a broken foot, he would have contained Brown & this series would have resulted in a game-winning TD instead of a FG sending it to OT...but I’m quite obviously biased in that assessment.

[PaladinFan]

I think this is a good example as any of why Wofford is going to miss Brown.

Brown lines up in what appears to be a 3 tech on the outside shoulder of the left guard. Wofford is rushing 4 men. The ROLB is going to stunt to the inside on the rush. Brown's job on this play, it would seem, is to clear the guard out of the way so that #43 can pressure the QB.

What results is that Brown is double-teamed by the LG and LT. The C picks up the blitz, but then Brown pushes the entire pile (LT, LG AND C) back towards the QB. Thad Mangum gets a 1 v 1 matchup against the RG, which he easily beats for the sack. In the stat book, Brown's name won't appear on this play, but he really creates the opportunity by occupying so many of GWU's offensive linemen and allowing for other guys to get favorable matchups.

https://twitter.com/Wofford_FB/status/1133572491895554048?s=20

[Reign of Terrier]

So...in Macon, where, in the past 70+ years, half of the games between these 2 Teams have been decided in OT and Wofford’s winning margins have never exceeded one point, the ONLY way that Mercer can win is if Wofford plays a bad game.

The talent level of the Terriers is clearly that superior over the talent level of the Bears, huh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLOnrmVmRs

Excellent framing. "Half" of the games in this case is 4.

Mercer has to replace a lot on offense, including an OC. They're terrible in close games and have only beaten one ranked team since they restarted their program.

Things may look completely different in October/November, but right now, given history, it's not unreasonable to favor Wofford in that matchup. Talent is only one dimension. Put another way, Mercer is the only game on the schedule where we play an arguably "more important" game the next week and we're *not* clearly more talented (like we are compared to VMI, SC State, and Gardner Webb).

I don't see Wofford looking past SC State, because it's the first game and we have a bye in week 2 (for some reason). We could possibly look past VMI to ETSU, but I really don't think VMI is good enough to beat us anyway. We might look past WCU, but that's unlikely as they'll be over .500 and Wofford would be coming off a bye.

[PaladinFan]

I'd watch out for WCU.

I don't think they have the total talent level of some of the other SoCon schools, but Tyrie Adams alone makes them an incredibly dangerous opponent. I don't think you have to play a perfect game to beat them, but they'll be dangerous enough to sting you if the team doesn't show up until half time.

[FUBeAR]

Things may look completely different in October/November, but right now, given history, it's not unreasonable to favor Wofford in that matchup.It is certainly not unreasonable, in July, to favor Wofford in that November matchup.

To say that the ONLY way Wofford could possibly lose that game is if they play bad because they are looking ahead to the Furman game the following week is...as Coach Ned Pepper just said...BOLD!

[Reign of Terrier]

I'd watch out for WCU.

I don't think they have the total talent level of some of the other SoCon schools, but Tyrie Adams alone makes them an incredibly dangerous opponent. I don't think you have to play a perfect game to beat them, but they'll be dangerous enough to sting you if the team doesn't show up until half time.

Which is why I'm glad we'll have them coming off a bye. One problem Wofford has had the last few years is that we kind of don't show up for a game in Mid-November or so, because our opponent isn't nearly as good as we are and we just need to win it to make the playoffs. Couple examples of this:

2016 VMI: We won 17-0 against the Keydets, but turned the ball over multiple times on the goal line. It was 3-0 with less than 10 minutes left in regulation
2017 Chattanooga: Though every game that year was close, the Chattanooga game was extra terrible. We were probably going to beat winless VMI the next week and win at least a share of the socon championship, and Chattanooga was not great (even though they just beat Samford the week before). We were basically already in the playoffs. We won in OT.
2018: Western Carolina: Yeah, we won this game by double digits but WCU led for most of the game. We only needed to win this one to make the playoffs. Just like Chattanooga in 2017, we were almost certainly going to beat our lowly next opponent, so there was no sense of urgency, especially given WCU's struggles.

Right now, given the structure of the schedule, with the positioning of the byes, the clemson game, and the "easy teams" front-loading the schedule and the "above average for socon play" (ETSU/Furman) sprinked in, but not in consecutive weeks, the only team that really fits the mold of a trap game is Mercer.

Basically, I think this is one of the better schedules for Wofford to play "one game at a time," if not the best.

[Reign of Terrier]

It is certainly not unreasonable, in July, to favor Wofford in that November matchup.

To say that the ONLY way Wofford could possibly lose that game is if they play bad because they are looking ahead to the Furman game the following week is...as Coach Ned Pepper just said...BOLD!

Well, there are deeper philosophical problems with your mischaracterization of my argument.

It's like saying the reason you wrote this post is because the Big Bang happened ~13.8 Billion years ago. I mean, it's technically true, but it's unhelpful. If Wofford loses it's because they score less points than Mercer, which probably means they didn't tackle as well, run or pass the ball as well, or some combination of factors that lead to them not putting as many points on the board.

A team's state of mind can contribute to how they play. It can make them not tackle as well, pass as well, run as well, pursue as well, etc.

All I'm saying is that Mercer is the only team good enough to beat us in a situation where we're more likely to think that way. We're not likely to be thinking that way against SC State, Samford, Western Carolina, ETSU, Chattanooga, the Citadel, or Furman because the games are inherently more meaningful (Furman, Citadel, Samford, ETSU), there's a bye the week before (Samford, Western) and or there's nothing "to look forward to" the week after (Chattanooga).

We're likely to be playing "that way" (though more likely =/= certain) against VMI, GW, and Mercer because they lack those attributes (meaning, prior bye week, nothing to look forward to the week before), and that will especially be the case if Mercer is a piddling 4-4 or so when we match up. The difference between Mercer and those other 2 is that Mercer has the capability of beating us. Hence, it's a trap game.

[Catamount87]

Which is why I'm glad we'll have them coming off a bye. One problem Wofford has had the last few years is that we kind of don't show up for a game in Mid-November or so, because our opponent isn't nearly as good as we are and we just need to win it to make the playoffs. Couple examples of this:

2016 VMI: We won 17-0 against the Keydets, but turned the ball over multiple times on the goal line. It was 3-0 with less than 10 minutes left in regulation
2017 Chattanooga: Though every game that year was close, the Chattanooga game was extra terrible. We were probably going to beat winless VMI the next week and win at least a share of the socon championship, and Chattanooga was not great (even though they just beat Samford the week before). We were basically already in the playoffs. We won in OT.
2018: Western Carolina: Yeah, we won this game by double digits but WCU led for most of the game. We only needed to win this one to make the playoffs. Just like Chattanooga in 2017, we were almost certainly going to beat our lowly next opponent, so there was no sense of urgency, especially given WCU's struggles.

Right now, given the structure of the schedule, with the positioning of the byes, the clemson game, and the "easy teams" front-loading the schedule and the "above average for socon play" (ETSU/Furman) sprinked in, but not in consecutive weeks, the only team that really fits the mold of a trap game is Mercer.

Basically, I think this is one of the better schedules for Wofford to play "one game at a time," if not the best.

That game was so much closer than the score, statistically nearly a dead heat. Giving up 2 TDs on turnovers and the 2nd half defensive issues did us in. Then again, 2nd half defensive issues were a theme in 2018 for us. The same thing happened the week before against The Citadel. We had them on the ropes. Then we proceeded to execute poorly on special teams, have questionable defensive playcalling and execution which let them right back in the game.

We may be the biggest question mark in the SoCon coming into 2019. It does seem like our talent level is down but who knows given the number of younger players that'll be seeing significant playing time this year.

2019 might be the biggest parity year in the SoCon in a number of years. Even those at the top don't look to have a huge advantage over the middle or even the bottom.

[Reign of Terrier]

That game was so much closer than the score, statistically nearly a dead heat. Giving up 2 TDs on turnovers and the 2nd half defensive issues did us in. Then again, 2nd half defensive issues were a theme in 2018 for us. The same thing happened the week before against The Citadel. We had them on the ropes. Then we proceeded to execute poorly on special teams, have questionable defensive playcalling and execution which let them right back in the game.

We may be the biggest question mark in the SoCon coming into 2019. It does seem like our talent level is down but who knows given the number of younger players that'll be seeing significant playing time this year.

2019 might be the biggest parity year in the SoCon in a number of years. Even those at the top don't look to have a huge advantage over the middle or even the bottom.

Yeah, what you're describing is basically the confluence of the trend I described (Wofford not showing up) and WCU last year (blowing things, somehow).

I'm just glad we have a bye going into Western. They could be 3-3 or better going into our game and so we shouldn't be deceived with records.

[PaladinFan]

Furman Announces AD hire, Jason Donnelly out of Villanova https://furmanpaladins.com/news/2019/7/25/general-villanovas-jason-donnelly-named-athletics-director-at-furman.aspx

At first blush, appears to be a great hire for Furman.

When you look at the landscape of private schools in the country that are nationally relevant in both FCS football and D1 men's basketball, it is pretty much only Villanova. Furman just landed a guy that was near the top of 'Nova's athletics department.

[gofurman]

Furman Announces AD hire, Jason Donnelly out of Villanova https://furmanpaladins.com/news/2019/7/25/general-villanovas-jason-donnelly-named-athletics-director-at-furman.aspx

At first blush, appears to be a great hire for Furman.

When you look at the landscape of private schools in the country that are nationally relevant in both FCS football and D1 men's basketball, it is pretty much only Villanova. Furman just landed a guy that was near the top of 'Nova's athletics department.

Yep - top notch FBS basketball (that's an understatement!) and FCS football champions too

[PaladinFan]

Yeah, what you're describing is basically the confluence of the trend I described (Wofford not showing up) and WCU last year (blowing things, somehow).

I'm just glad we have a bye going into Western. They could be 3-3 or better going into our game and so we shouldn't be deceived with records.

This isn't the SoCon of 15 years ago where Furman/GSU/App State overmatched the rest of the conference most seasons.

I do think that Wofford and Furman at their best will be better than the rest of the SoCon. That said, I do not think the gap between those two and the rest of the conference is wide enough that either team can just show up and get a win. Every team is going to have to bring their lunch pail every week.

My guess is the only team that will be overmatched in most SoCon contests will be VMI. For every other team, the gap isn't so wide where you can play a poor game and expect to win on talent alone.

The conference race may well come down to a couple of plays here and there over the course of the season. I expect most of the games will be pretty tight.

[Milktruck74]

This isn't the SoCon of 15 years ago where Furman/GSU/App State overmatched the rest of the conference most seasons.

I do think that Wofford and Furman at their best will be better than the rest of the SoCon. That said, I do not think the gap between those two and the rest of the conference is wide enough that either team can just show up and get a win. Every team is going to have to bring their lunch pail every week.

My guess is the only team that will be overmatched in most SoCon contests will be VMI. For every other team, the gap isn't so wide where you can play a poor game and expect to win on talent alone.

The conference race may well come down to a couple of plays here and there over the course of the season. I expect most of the games will be pretty tight.

2019 is going to be a season of attrition. Basically the last man standing, then those limp into the playoffs will probably be pretty banged up from a full season of slobberknockers....I think the conference has 6 teams that are fully capable of winning (at least a first round) playoff game. However, the way the season stacks up, we will probably only see two teams get in and neither will make a deep run. That doesn’t mean we aren’t playing great football in the conference. When you only have 63 schollys, you aren’t too deep...depth and injuries will determine the conference champ this season. And Go Mocs!!!!!


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[JSUSoutherner]

2019 is going to be a season of attrition. Basically the last man standing, then those limp into the playoffs will probably be pretty banged up from a full season of slobberknockers....I think the conference has 6 teams that are fully capable of winning (at least a first round) playoff game. However, the way the season stacks up, we will probably only see two teams get in and neither will make a deep run. That doesn’t mean we aren’t playing great football in the conference. When you only have 63 schollys, you aren’t too deep...depth and injuries will determine the conference champ this season. And Go Mocs!!!!!


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Well it's a good thing we play you before the SoCon slate so you don't have any excuses for us. :D

[Milktruck74]

Well it's a good thing we play you before the SoCon slate so you don't have any excuses for us. :D

I’m sure we will Be he toughest team y’all play all season....ha.


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[JSUSoutherner]

I’m sure we will Be he toughest team y’all play all season....ha.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI hope not.

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[Milktruck74]

Isn’t an OVC Championship like a participation trophy? Or is it more like the basketball post season NIT?


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[JSUSoutherner]

Isn’t an OVC Championship like a participation trophy? Or is it more like the basketball post season NIT?


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Funny you mention that since nobody from the SoCon could win the OVC.

[gofurman]

Funny you mention that since nobody from the SoCon could win the OVC.

Furman BEAT you AT JSU in last play...
And beat you 49-7(?) I think. FORTY NINE to SEVEN !!!

ThatÂ’s 2004 / 2005 , I get that. but thatÂ’s our last two games. ItÂ’s all weÂ’ve got.

The TRUTH is JSU is a good team and would be with Wofford and Furman and one other for SoCon Crown each year but itÂ’s a much tougher road in SoCon overall - JSU would be too three but not the shoe in they are (to their credit) in the OVC. remember UTC is the 5th or 6th best in SoCon

No big heckle. Just sayinÂ’. LetÂ’s get a renewal of Furman JSU 😊

[Mike296]

Furman BEAT you AT JSU in last play...
And beat you 49-7(?) I think. FORTY NINE to SEVEN !!!

ThatÂ’s 2004 / 2005 , I get that. but thatÂ’s our last two games. ItÂ’s all weÂ’ve got.

The TRUTH is JSU is a good team and would be with Wofford and Furman and one other for SoCon Crown each year but itÂ’s a much tougher road in SoCon overall - JSU would be too three but not the shoe in they are (to their credit) in the OVC. remember UTC is the 5th or 6th best in SoCon

No big heckle. Just sayinÂ’. LetÂ’s get a renewal of Furman JSU [emoji4]

Let’s be realistic here the JSU, SEMO and APSU teams in recent years could have done well in the SoCon. I’m not saying the OVC is better because it really isn’t. But it’s better teams can do well against the SoCon if given the chance. The bottom feeders are a different matter. Aside from VMI I don’t think the OVC’s bottom feeders could win a game in SoCo

[FUBeAR]

Last year, JaxSt came within inches of losing at home in the playoffs vs. a Team that had to come from behind in the 4th quarter to beat SoCon perennial doormat, VMI, by 3 & which took OT to beat aspiring SoCon doormat, WCU, only due to a Cantamount missed FG.

The following week the game-less chickens were run off the field by a Team that was run off the field by a Team that barely edged a middle-of-the-pack SoCon Team a few weeks earlier.

The “Automatic OVC Champ” would be 3-5 in the SoCon, at best.

[JSUSoutherner]

Furman BEAT you AT JSU in last play...
And beat you 49-7(?) I think. FORTY NINE to SEVEN !!!

ThatÂ’s 2004 / 2005 , I get that. but thatÂ’s our last two games. ItÂ’s all weÂ’ve got.

The TRUTH is JSU is a good team and would be with Wofford and Furman and one other for SoCon Crown each year but itÂ’s a much tougher road in SoCon overall - JSU would be too three but not the shoe in they are (to their credit) in the OVC. remember UTC is the 5th or 6th best in SoCon

No big heckle. Just sayinÂ’. LetÂ’s get a renewal of Furman JSU 😊

I'd like to play Furman. Word on the street is we had you for a game in 2015 and you guys backed out to go get whupped for a paycheck. xcoffeex

[Milktruck74]

Quit using fact to confuse the chicken farmers.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Last year, JaxSt came within inches of losing at home in the playoffs vs. a Team that had to come from behind in the 4th quarter to beat SoCon perennial doormat, VMI, by 3 & which took OT to beat aspiring SoCon doormat, WCU, only due to a Cantamount missed FG.

The following week the game-less chickens were run off the field by a Team that was run off the field by a Team that barely edged a middle-of-the-pack SoCon Team a few weeks earlier.

The “Automatic OVC Champ” would be 3-5 in the SoCon, at best.

We were up 14 with 5 minutes to go and outscored ETSU 24-7 in the second half. You may want to go double-check how that game actually went.

[FUBeAR]

I'd like to play Furman.
You wouldn’t like it now & you didn’t like it before. You’ve never liked it & you never will like it!

FURMAN vs. JACKSONVILLE STATE (3-0)
2004....... W.......... 49-7................GREENVILLE
2005....... W......... 37-35............... Jacksonville
2006....... W......... 17-13...............GREENVILLE

[Reign of Terrier]

I know the OVC comments are obvious trolling and you guys are knuckle heads for falling for it HOWEVER, here's each socon team's record against the OVC since 2010 (or as far as wiki lets me go)

Chattanooga: 8-8 (1-6 against JSU...Damn)
Citadel: no games played
ETSU: 0-1
Furman: no games played
Mercer: 3-1
Samford: 0-1
VMI: 2-0
WCU: no games played
Wofford: 3-0

Take away Jacksonville State and the conference is 14-3 against the OVC in the last decade (or something close to it). Most of the games are played by Chattanooga, and I imagine in the future ETSU will play more as well. Take Chattanooga and JSU out and the conference is 7-1.

But the socon is like 2-8 against JSU, but if you take out Chatt we're 1-2.

This record is pretty much exasperated by the fact that Mercer and VMI have a winning record against OVC teams when they weren't great (Mercer was a starter program) when they played.

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[Sir William]

Let’s be realistic here the JSU, SEMO and APSU teams in recent years could have done well in the SoCon.

Lol!

[FUBeAR]

I don’t know about being a knucklehead, but I know that when people make me think of the OVC, as I often forget it is an FCS Conference, I like to think about how my 2 SoCon Teams are 7-1 vs. the OVC in the past 30 years or so. And, you shoulda seen the home-cookin’ it took to create that 1 loss - they don’t call it COOKeville for no reason!

The OVC & the PFL should have annual challenge weekend to settle once & for all which Conference is the weakest conference in FCS. Really, they should.

[Milktruck74]

I don’t know about being a knucklehead, but I know that when people make me think of the OVC, as I often forget it is an FCS Conference, I like to think about how my 2 SoCon Teams are 7-1 vs. the OVC in the past 30 years or so. And, you shoulda seen the home-cookin’ it took to create that 1 loss - they don’t call it COOKeville for no reason!

The OVC & the PFL should have annual challenge weekend to settle once & for all which Conference is the weakest conference in FCS. Really, they should.

You may have gone a little too far with this FuBear. You are probably hurting feelings with statements like that!!!!


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[Reign of Terrier]

I don’t know about being a knucklehead, but I know that when people make me think of the OVC, as I often forget it is an FCS Conference, I like to think about how my 2 SoCon Teams are 7-1 vs. the OVC in the past 30 years or so. And, you shoulda seen the home-cookin’ it took to create that 1 loss - they don’t call it COOKeville for no reason!

The OVC & the PFL should have annual challenge weekend to settle once & for all which Conference is the weakest conference in FCS. Really, they should.

You're forgetting about the Big South.

I don't know if Wofford has ever lost to an OVC team since we've gone division one. We certainly haven't since at least 2001. Then again, I think we've only played like 3 games.

FCS is more regionalized than I thought.

[FUBeAR]

You're forgetting about the Big South.No...I’m not.

[Reign of Terrier]

I don't even need computer rankings to show that the Big South is easily the worst conference in the FCS. Without Kennesaw State they would probably never win an OOC game

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[kdinva]

OK, to clear up VMI's off season; WRs Thornton & Humphrey + starting DB Loftis all resigned from VMI approx. May 11th. They put themselves in a situation that, if they reported for practice this Thursday, then made it to the start of the semester (Aug 26), they would have been "dismissed" in a matter of days.....thereby costing reps from the other players in their positions.

[Reign of Terrier]

Thorton was VMI's leading receiver. That sucks.

I respect VMI, having been to Lexington for the last 2 Wofford games and expect to go back this fall. However, there's something wrong with VMI football and it looks like it's rotting from the top.

They can't expect to compete if they can't get players to buy in. And as I said, I respect VMI, but they have to ask themselves if getting boat raced in the socon is worth it.



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[JSUSoutherner]

I know the OVC comments are obvious trolling and you guys are knuckle heads for falling for it HOWEVER, here's each socon team's record against the OVC since 2010 (or as far as wiki lets me go)

Chattanooga: 8-8 (1-6 against JSU...Damn)
Citadel: no games played
ETSU: 0-1
Furman: no games played
Mercer: 3-1
Samford: 0-1
VMI: 2-0
WCU: no games played
Wofford: 3-0

Take away Jacksonville State and the conference is 14-3 against the OVC in the last decade (or something close to it). Most of the games are played by Chattanooga, and I imagine in the future ETSU will play more as well. Take Chattanooga and JSU out and the conference is 7-1.

But the socon is like 2-8 against JSU, but if you take out Chatt we're 1-2.

This record is pretty much exasperated by the fact that Mercer and VMI have a winning record against OVC teams when they weren't great (Mercer was a starter program) when they played.

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Sure, plenty of SoCon teams would finish second in the OVC, but none of them would win it.

[gofurman]

Sure, plenty of SoCon teams would finish second in the OVC, but none of them would win it.

I keep telling you Furman beat JSU BOTH times we played since 2000. .. Once beating the shizznit out of you 49-7. FORTY NINE TO SEVEN !!!!!! Yep 2004 and 2005. It's the last time we played. Until we play again that's all we got.

You won the OVC and lost to us by FORTY TWO. Get out of here - I recall your coach saying something like "we had no answers for that level of play" in the post game on radio. He sounded SOOOO FRUSTRATED

Look at your OVC scores and then that you lost to us by FORTY TWO. xdrunkyx
https://static.jsugamecocksports.com/custompages/Stats/Football/2004/TEAMSTAT.HTM


Just sayin '

good luck this year to JSU ! (I mean that)

[PaladinFan]

Sure, plenty of SoCon teams would finish second in the OVC, but none of them would win it.

JSU is a good team. JSU also doesn't play a tough schedule. Who's to say that if JSU played a SoCon schedule they wouldn't take one on the chin once or twice? JSU plays in a conference where only 3 teams had winning records last year.

JSU would probably be the favorite in the SoCon, but they'd also actually have to show up every week to win.

[JSUSoutherner]

I keep telling you Furman beat JSU BOTH times we played since 2000. .. Once beating the shizznit out of you 49-7. FORTY NINE TO SEVEN !!!!!! Yep 2004 and 2005. It's the last time we played. Until we play again that's all we got.

You won the OVC and lost to us by FORTY TWO. Get out of here - I recall your coach saying something like "we had no answers for that level of play" in the post game on radio. He sounded SOOOO FRUSTRATED

Look at your OVC scores and then that you lost to us by FORTY TWO. xdrunkyx
https://static.jsugamecocksports.com/custompages/Stats/Football/2004/TEAMSTAT.HTM


Just sayin '

good luck this year to JSU ! (I mean that)Ok and? 2000 was 20 years ago, chief. Do you still think the 49ers are good because Montana and Rice were there 30 years ago?

Guess I can't blame a Furman fan for living in the early 2000's since that was the last time you guys were relevant.



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[Milktruck74]

GoFurman, Southerner was still
In diapers....way back then.....in 2005.


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[JSUSoutherner]

GoFurman, Southerner was still
In diapers....way back then.....in 2005.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHow old do you think I am?

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[gofurman]

Ok and? 2000 was 20 years ago, chief. Do you still think the 49ers are good because Montana and Rice were there 30 years ago?



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Well, to be specfic it was 2004 and 2005. I said - and I QUOTE - " SINCE 2000 ". That said, I do get your point but cmon, If JSU were in the SoCon I think you would be top-three every year but not always number one and that point is actually proved by the last Furman (I use us because that's my team) games w you. You won the OVC in 2004 and we KILLLLLLLED YOU. As if we were an NFL team. :D

I mean you you win the OVC and lose to us FORTY NINE to SEVEN. good grief. It's just a different animal in the SoCon. You would win the SoCon sometimes. I have no doubt. But I also know - as PaladinFan said - Since the SoCon is deeper and tougher there would be years you would slip up a week here or there and not win the SoCon

Thats all. Good luck this year.

[Milktruck74]

How old do you think I am?

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Somewhere between whipper and snapper. Haha


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[JSUSoutherner]

Somewhere between whipper and snapper. Haha


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Sure, we can go with that I guess. :D


Well, to be specfic it was 2004 and 2005. I said - and I QUOTE - " SINCE 2000 ". That said, I do get your point but cmon, If JSU were in the SoCon I think you would be top-three every year but not always number one and that point is actually proved by the last Furman (I use us because that's my team) games w you. You won the OVC in 2004 and we KILLLLLLLED YOU. As if we were an NFL team. :D

I mean you you win the OVC and lose to us FORTY NINE to SEVEN. good grief. It's just a different animal in the SoCon. You would win the SoCon sometimes. I have no doubt. But I also know - as PaladinFan said - Since the SoCon is deeper and tougher there would be years you would slip up a week here or there and not win the SoCon

Thats all. Good luck this year.

Fun fact: Furman has the same amount of playoff wins in the past five years as SEMO.

Thats all. Good luck this year. See you in the playoffs, maybe.

[SU DOG]

IF JSU were given the chance to join the SoCon tomorrow, they would be changing their conference logos by Tuesday, or maybe even late tomorrow afternoon. FACT!

[JSUSoutherner]

IF JSU were given the chance to join the SoCon tomorrow, they would be changing their conference logos by Tuesday, or maybe even late tomorrow afternoon. FACT!

You're damn right.


Too bad the SoCon is too scared to ever let that happen.

[Milktruck74]

You're damn right.


Too bad the SoCon is too scared to ever let that happen.

I would
Love to see Jax State in the SoCon. Maybe give VMI (sorry Keydets) to the OVC....too bad The SoCon actually has standards. Ha.


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[JSUSoutherner]

I would
Love to see Jax State in the SoCon. Maybe give VMI (sorry Keydets) to the OVC....too bad The SoCon actually has standards. Ha.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSure you might since we're besties, but Mercer, Furman, and El Cid would crap themselves at the thought of having an Alabama Public school in the conference.

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[Milktruck74]

Sure you might since we're besties, but Mercer, Furman, and El Cid would crap themselves at the thought of having an Alabama Public school in the conference.

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Yeah. Standards. Hahahja


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[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah. Standards. Hahahja


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou guys are like the Alfred to our Batman.

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[Milktruck74]

You guys are like the Alfred to our Batman.

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Alfred was a class act. Robin was a little B;+c#.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Alfred was a class act. Robin was a little B;+c#.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEXACTLY.

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[FUBeAR]

Sure you might since we're besties, but Mercer, Furman, and El Cid would crap themselves at the thought of having an Alabama Public school in the conferencePerhaps, for some reason, this was your intended list for this hackneyed GaSou & Appy ish, but you may find the info below helpful in your future flailing.



Institution
Joined
Type
Enrollment


University of Tennessee at Chattanooga (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Tennessee_at_Chattanooga)
1976
Public
11,388


The Citadel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Citadel,_The_Military_College_of_South_Carolin a)
1936
Public
3,400


East Tennessee State University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Tennessee_State_University)
1978 & 2014
Public
14,587


Furman University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_University)
1936
Private
2,668


Mercer University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_University)
2014
Private
8,603


Samford University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samford_University)
2008
Private
5,206


University of North Carolina at Greensboro (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Greensboro)
1997
Public
19,393


Virginia Military Institute (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Military_Institute)
1924 & 2014
Public
1,717


Western Carolina University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Carolina_University)
1976
Public
10,340


Wofford College (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wofford_College)
1997
Private
1,613


—————————————————————
——————
———-
——————


Jacksonville State University
NEVER WILL
Public
8,567



6 Public Schools (5 Football) / 4 Private Schools

[JSUSoutherner]

Perhaps, for some reason, this was your intended list for this hackneyed GaSou & Appy ish, but you may find the info below helpful in your future flailing.



Institution
Joined
Type
Enrollment


University of Tennessee at Chattanooga (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Tennessee_at_Chattanooga)
1976
Public
11,388


The Citadel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Citadel,_The_Military_College_of_South_Carolin a)
1936
Public
3,400


East Tennessee State University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Tennessee_State_University)
1978 & 2014
Public
14,587


Furman University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_University)
1936
Private
2,668


Mercer University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_University)
2014
Private
8,603


Samford University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samford_University)
2008
Private
5,206


University of North Carolina at Greensboro (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Greensboro)
1997
Public
19,393


Virginia Military Institute (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Military_Institute)
1924 & 2014
Public
1,717


Western Carolina University (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Carolina_University)
1976
Public
10,340


Wofford College (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wofford_College)
1997
Private
1,613


—————————————————————
——————
———-
——————


Jacksonville State University
NEVER WILL
Public
8,567



6 Public Schools (5 Football) / 4 Private Schools

See, Milktruck, I told you the Furman/Mercer plebs would have a hissy fit.

[Reign of Terrier]

fwiw I think the reason why JSU isn't in the Socon is because they have signaled clear FBS ambitions. So they don't want to, and the SoCon notices as much. Same goes for Kennesaw State.

[JSUSoutherner]

fwiw I think the reason why JSU isn't in the Socon is because they have signaled clear FBS ambitions. So they don't want to, and the SoCon notices as much. Same goes for Kennesaw State.

JSU won't go FBS.

Not sure what signals you're talking about.

[Reign of Terrier]

JSU won't go FBS.

Not sure what signals you're talking about.When the sun belt expanded, adding Coastal Carolina, JSU was competing for that spot.

I can't find the article, but it was definitely a thing.

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[Mocs123]

I do think JSU had FBS asperations at one time (they were once big rivals with Troy), but I'm not sure they still are dead set on FBS as they were. I'd take JSU in the SoCon as they are a natural rival for Chattanooga. I think we have one more game in the series after this year, and I certainly hope our AD's continue the series.

As much as I hate JSU, I do have a lot of respect for what they have built as a program and the fan support they have, which is quite impressive considering they are right in the middle of Alburn and Crimson Tide country. JSU has a great atmosphere and I generally enjoy games there. We certainly have been snakebit against JSU in the past, but every game has been competitive. We only lost by 14 in 2017 and that was our worst team in a decade. My daughter has a softball tournament the Saturday of the JSU-UTC game, but I'm planning on skipping out early enough to make the drive down to watch the game.

As far as the OVC vs the SoCon, the SoCon is far superior top to bottom. JSU would certainly be a top team in the SoCon and would win some championships, but don't think they would dominate like they have the OVC. JSU isn't alone as I would say the same thing about KSU and the Big South.

[JSUSoutherner]

When the sun belt expanded, adding Coastal Carolina, JSU was competing for that spot.

I can't find the article, but it was definitely a thing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkNo, it wasn't.

EKU is who you're thinking of.

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[JSUSoutherner]

I do think JSU had FBS asperations at one time (they were once big rivals with Troy), but I'm not sure they still are dead set on FBS as they were. I'd take JSU in the SoCon as they are a natural rival for Chattanooga. I think we have one more game in the series after this year, and I certainly hope our AD's continue the series.

As much as I hate JSU, I do have a lot of respect for what they have built as a program and the fan support they have, which is quite impressive considering they are right in the middle of Alburn and Crimson Tide country. JSU has a great atmosphere and I generally enjoy games there. We certainly have been snakebit against JSU in the past, but every game has been competitive. We only lost by 14 in 2017 and that was our worst team in a decade. My daughter has a softball tournament the Saturday of the JSU-UTC game, but I'm planning on skipping out early enough to make the drive down to watch the game.

As far as the OVC vs the SoCon, the SoCon is far superior top to bottom. JSU would certainly be a top team in the SoCon and would win some championships, but don't think they would dominate like they have the OVC. JSU isn't alone as I would say the same thing about KSU and the Big South.That 2017 game was anything but competitive. That was a slaughter. You guys were lucky you didn't lose by more.


Tiano was the worst QB you guys have had since I've been paying attention.

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[PaladinFan]

Is the OVC so underrepresented on this board that a JSU fan has to troll the SoCon?

[Milktruck74]

That 2017 game was anything but competitive. That was a slaughter. You guys were lucky you didn't lose by more.


Tiano was the worst QB you guys have had since I've been paying attention.

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And yet Tiano is listed at the top NFL QB prospect from a “small school” by several services. You can’t blame him for an OL coach that was in way over his head and referred to a stunt as the time Eval Kineval tried to jump the Snake.


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[Reign of Terrier]

No, it wasn't.

EKU is who you're thinking of.

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Nope, it was an ESPN article. I remember reading it. It explicitly mentioned Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State. UTC was also approached about joining the Sun Belt, but they (supposedly) turned it down, but you won't find many official articles on that either.

Both Jacksonville State and Kennesaw State are in the position where it's probably in their best interest to join the SoCon for their FCS future (better games to be better attended in KSU's case, better chance of either getting scheduled winnable first round playoff games as they won't be sent to the Socon, or an expanded playoff tournament footprint), but given posturing, the SoCon isn't going to be a program's stepping stone.

[JSUSoutherner]

Nope, it was an ESPN article. I remember reading it. It explicitly mentioned Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State. UTC was also approached about joining the Sun Belt, but they (supposedly) turned it down, but you won't find many official articles on that either.

Both Jacksonville State and Kennesaw State are in the position where it's probably in their best interest to join the SoCon for their FCS future (better games to be better attended in KSU's case, better chance of either getting scheduled winnable first round playoff games as they won't be sent to the Socon, or an expanded playoff tournament footprint), but given posturing, the SoCon isn't going to be a program's stepping stone.

Then it was speculation, because as far as I, and all the other fans who pay close attention to the athletics department know, that conversation never actually happened.

[JSUSoutherner]

Is the OVC so underrepresented on this board that a JSU fan has to troll the SoCon?

Yes.

[SU DOG]

JSU fans will NEVER be totally satisfied until they can compete with Troy, and that may never happen. IMO, they would probably pick beating Troy again over winning at Frisco. Some of the younger ones may not feel this way, but the older money crowd, for the most part would. Troy vs JSU was the best rivalry in D-2 football. Both schools had phenomenal bands that challenged each other. Other than Auburn/Bama and maybe the Magic City Classic, this was THE rivalry in this state.

JSU currently has fantastic athletic facilities, and still has the best band around(sorry WCU). They fall a bit short in the academic standards(JSU-Just Show Up) that the SoCon would like, and then there is the endowment issue. Even the publics in the SoCon have good strength there. ETSU has about $122 million, while UTC has around $200 million. The privates have much more financial strength, with Samford and Mercer having around $300 million and Furman just over twice those amounts. JSU by comparison has only $12.5 million, and I don't think that figure was affected by their unfortunate tornado damages. The SoCon certainly looks at many areas of qualification before approving a member.

IMO, however, JSU would still be a good addition for the league. I am definitely in favor, but I don't think it will happen.

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU fans will NEVER be totally satisfied until they can compete with Troy, and that may never happen. IMO, they would probably pick beating Troy again over winning at Frisco. Some of the younger ones may not feel this way, but the older money crowd, for the most part would. Troy vs JSU was the best rivalry in D-2 football. Both schools had phenomenal bands that challenged each other. Other than Auburn/Bama and maybe the Magic City Classic, this was THE rivalry in this state.

JSU currently has fantastic athletic facilities, and still has the best band around(sorry WCU). They fall a bit short in the academic standards(JSU-Just Show Up) that the SoCon would like, and then there is the endowment issue. Even the publics in the SoCon have good strength there. ETSU has about $122 million, while UTC has around $200 million. The privates have much more financial strength, with Samford and Mercer having around $300 million and Furman just over twice those amounts. JSU by comparison has only $12.5 million, and I don't think that figure was affected by their unfortunate tornado damages. The SoCon certainly looks at many areas of qualification before approving a member.

IMO, however, JSU would still be a good addition for the league. I am definitely in favor, but I don't think it will happen.

Truth be told, the Troy rivalry is but a distant myth to many JSU fans. UNA was also a big rival and they get very little hype compared to what we got when we went to Frisco. I had total strangers who saw me in JSU gear coming up to ask me about the team. There was A LOT of hype for Frisco in the community. Businesses changed their signs and decorated their windows for miles around. It was neat.

As a JSU fan, I'd be completely happy in a better league, many of the fans on the JSU board are also of the mind that aside from the chance to play Troy again the FBS doesn't really have anything to offer. Why play for a spot in the NOLA Toilet Bowl against UTEP when we can play for a title?

[FUBeAR]

See, Milktruck, I told you the Furman/Mercer plebs would have a hissy fit.
That was simply information for your enlightenment & potential future accurate usage.

I can direct you to a “hissy fit,” though, if you would like. I believe it was in the FCS Early Signing Day thread.

[PaladinFan]

And yet Tiano is listed at the top NFL QB prospect from a “small school” by several services. You can’t blame him for an OL coach that was in way over his head and referred to a stunt as the time Eval Kineval tried to jump the Snake.


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UTC's offense is not necessarily a Tiano problem. Two examples from Furman game.

Tiano takes a sack on this play, but what chance does he have? Furman rushes 4, UTC has 5 to block them, and I count approximately 2 seconds (maybe less) before the pocket collapses and Tiano has to pull the ball down. Even the NFL's best passers need at least 2.5 seconds to get a throw off.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1058805910582157312?s=20

Another example - 4th down and Furman showing man coverage. UTC receiver weakly attempts to screen Lemons, who shucks him away, reads the play the whole way, and beats the throw. Of course, Tiano had another defensive lineman in his face.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1058801442293669888?s=20

On that second play, you see a lot of what I perceived to be UTC's problem on offense. As I've argued before, most of UTC's offense last year was either a hand off to Price, a throw to Nunnally, or a Tiano run. On a 4th down, Furman can just play percentages and guess that the throw there is going to Nunnaly (which it was). Tiano, for his part, stares right at the receiver. Didn't fool Lemons. Didn't fool the safety. Offensive line is bad enough that even if Tiano wanted to look off the safety and then throw downfield to what was probably a wide open receiver on a fly route, he won't have time. Even there, on a quick out route, Furman still had a defender in Tiano's face.

[PaladinFan]

Nope, it was an ESPN article. I remember reading it. It explicitly mentioned Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State. UTC was also approached about joining the Sun Belt, but they (supposedly) turned it down, but you won't find many official articles on that either.

Both Jacksonville State and Kennesaw State are in the position where it's probably in their best interest to join the SoCon for their FCS future (better games to be better attended in KSU's case, better chance of either getting scheduled winnable first round playoff games as they won't be sent to the Socon, or an expanded playoff tournament footprint), but given posturing, the SoCon isn't going to be a program's stepping stone.

Also worth noting that the SoCon is edging its way up to being a very good mid-major basketball conference. So, it wouldn't necessarily just be a football consideration.

[Mocs123]

Yep O-Line was bad, particularly in 2017, and Tiano payed the price. So did Benefield who got KO'd by WCU after a series. O-Line was slightly better last year, but still a weak point, but I don't think our issue was talent on the line. Rusty brought back former O-Line coach Chris Malone, who was here under Huesman, and I think he will fix our O-Line issues. You'll see a different Tiano than you saw in 2017 for sure - I thought he played pretty well in 2018, despite our line and inability to run the ball. To be honest, I'm not sure what our Offense will look like this year, but Tiano is more talented than you would have guessed from the game you saw in 2017 and I think we have two good running backs too. There will inevitably be some growing pains with a new staff and HC, but I don't think you will find many Mocs fans that aren't glad to have Rusty rather than Arth at the helm for 2018. Hopefully we get the kinks out by the time we play JSU on Sept 7 and have a competitive game. As much as I would like to win by 40 points, I think a competitive game is good for both schools.

[Mocs123]

Also worth noting that the SoCon is edging its way up to being a very good mid-major basketball conference. So, it wouldn't necessarily just be a football consideration.

I've historically thought of JSU as a bad BB school, but I have noticed they have had some pretty good teams the past few years. If they can sustain that, I don't think they would hurt the conference at all, and if they continue at this level might be in the top half or better. We split a series with them a year or so ago.

[JSUSoutherner]

I've historically thought of JSU as a bad BB school, but I have noticed they have had some pretty good teams the past few years. If they can sustain that, I don't think they would hurt the conference at all, and if they continue at this level might be in the top half or better. We split a series with them a year or so ago.

We're currently a top tier get in every sport that matters.

[Mocs123]

JSU often gets blasted for a week schedule, and much of that is due to the weak perception of the OVC as a whole, but I will say they have a good OOC schedule this year with Chattanooga - a local rival who should be in the top 25, and Eastern Washington, most people's pick for the Big Sky Champs, as well as North Alabama, a traditional and geographical rival for JSU. I imagine JSU stops them this year, but UNA has been a strong D2 program for a long time that just joined the Big South - I think they will be a good FCS team before long. No $$ game for JSU this year - interesting in a 12 game season.

[SU DOG]

We're currently a top tier get in every sport that matters.
This is true. JSU has a better baseball stadium and football stadium than anywhere I know of in the SoCon. All of their sports have recently shown improvement, including Women's Sports. In the past 10 years, I think Samford has dominated the Gamecocks in every sport except football, but the gap has recently narrowed, and the improvements are obvious. Because I state facts, of course, doesn't mean I like 'em. LOL!

[Reign of Terrier]

UTC is my dark horse. I won't be surprised by any outcome against Jacksonville State or James Madison.

As for scheduling, I think it's clear that there's a strong fiscal dimension to how the Socon schedules, as most schools haven't scheduled a home and home with a team more than one state over. Has any? The closest I can think is Wofford and Tennessee Tech and that's it. Scheduling is a different monster over here compared to the MVFC/Big Sky because we don't have to fly anywhere, so it's more expensive (relative to those conference) to schedule a big name team.

Meanwhile, what JSU is doing right now is kind of what App did before they moved up to FBS, scheduling tougher games OOC because, well, they can. They can afford it, and they will almost win at least 8 games every year, and there's a cap for how much credit the playoff committee will give them for winning the OVC, so why not schedule big?

The Socon may not be the MVFC or CAA, but we benefit from playing everyone every year (Big Sky and CAA can't say that) and there's turnover at the top (5 teams have won the conference since 2015) and everyone but ETSU has won a playoff game of those five. And then there's Samford.

Anyway, Socon has 6 teams that have been top-15 caliber in the last 4 seasons, which makes it a unique conference relative to the rest of FCS, given the fact that the same team is usually not on top from year-to-year (Big Sky, CAA, OVC, and MVFC can't really say that) and relative turnover isn't out of ineptitude of the conference (Big South, Patriot, Southland, etc).

I'm not a homer enough to say that the Socon is the best conference. We're probably fourth, a hair behind the Big Sky. What we lack is that one team that can make the semifinals every year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also: Socon can't talk trash about basketball. We're a better basketball conference than we were five years ago but we still only have 1 tournament win in the last decade.

[SU DOG]

And then there's Samford? Check who we played and where in those Playoff Games, and then compare it to the other SoCon teams draws/location. That is a BIG factor to consider in your disparaging remark.

[Mocs123]

This is true. JSU has a better baseball stadium and football stadium than anywhere I know of in the SoCon.

Burgess-Snow is a very nice stadium for sure, and you could argue better than any in the SoCon, but I think it's proceeded as nicer say then Chattanooga's Finley Stadium due in part to the face that it is normally pretty full, whereas Finley Stadium is half full on a good day. The "new" home side looks great, and certainly looks impressive. They turned the "old" home side to the visitors side, and it's quite pedestrian and actually felt like a (large) old HS stadium to me. The visitors locker rooms are still in a dumpy looking building off to the side of the field and there isn't any room between the sidelines and the field itself. I will say they have done a nice job with the old bones of the existing stadium and I absolutely love the way they put their press box, where they film the games from, in the "old" press box on the visitors side. This way the camera is facing the impressive "new" home side. It really looks good on TV, unlike Finley where the camera is facing the empty side, which especially early in the year when it faces the sun is beyond empty. I think with a little re-fresh and 10K more people, Finley would be the nicer facility (I'm sure JSU fan(s) will disagree). I'll also add that, though small, ETSU's new stadium is very nice, and Mercer's looks nice as well though I haven't made it to a game there yet.


The thing that impresses me the most about JSU is they way they have been able to build a fan base. I went to the game when we played them in 2005, in the "old" Burgess Snow, and though it was well attended, with maybe 13K in the stands, I think they now average close to 20K and they are right in the heart of SEC country. Chattanooga had a great run and was ranked as high as #3 in the country and we can barely manage to get 10K to a game.

[kdinva]

most schools haven't scheduled a home and home with a team more than one state over. Has any?

VMI had, and has H&H upcoming with Robert Morris (Pa), Princeton, Cornell, Bucknell....

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/vmi/

[Mocs123]

And then there's Samford? Check who we played and where in those Playoff Games, and then compare it to the other SoCon teams draws/location. That is a BIG factor to consider in your disparaging remark.

Samford has been really good the past few years, but they have done it with an electric offense that relies on passing. The Bulldogs have struggled running the ball (or haven't tried much) and have put together defenses that are not as good as some in the conference. We had similar teams under Donnie Kirkpatrick, and though Samford has been much more successful with that style than we were, I still think it's a tough way to win a NC with. Eastern Washington has done fairly well with a similar philosophy though.

[SU DOG]

Evidently it also must be a tough way for us to beat UTC - LOL!

[Mocs123]

Please.....Samford has won twice in the last decade. You very well may beat us this year (I don't think so, but we will know for sure Nov 11) but look at the record and I wouldn't talk smack. Samford has had some really good teams recently, but much like UTC is snakebit against JSU, Samford has been snakebit vs. UTC.

2018 Samford 27 UTC 20
2017 Samford 21 UTC 23
2016 Samford 21 UTC 41
2015 Samford 21 UTC 31
2014 Samford 24 UTC 38
2013 Samford 17 UTC 14 OT (starting QB Huesman had torn up knee)
2012 Samford 13 UTC 20
2011 Samford 9 UTC 24
2010 Samford 14 UTC 48
2019 Samford 7 UTC 14

[Reign of Terrier]

And then there's Samford? Check who we played and where in those Playoff Games, and then compare it to the other SoCon teams draws/location. That is a BIG factor to consider in your disparaging remark.


Samford has been really good the past few years, but they have done it with an electric offense that relies on passing. The Bulldogs have struggled running the ball (or haven't tried much) and have put together defenses that are not as good as some in the conference. We had similar teams under Donnie Kirkpatrick, and though Samford has been much more successful with that style than we were, I still think it's a tough way to win a NC with. Eastern Washington has done fairly well with a similar philosophy though.

the only thing Keeping Wofford from getting a (higher) seed the last 4 times we made the playoffs was losing to Samford.

In 2012, we beat Samford, we're 9-2, outright Socon champs, likely with a seed. In 2016, we're 9-2 with our only FCS loss to the Citadel in OT. Probably a seed. In 2017, we were 9-2, 7-1 and outright Socon champs, but would have been a seed (10-1) without a loss to Samford. Last year, just like 2012, we probably get a seed at 9-2 as outright socon champs.

Now, look at the flipside:

Samford hasn't won 8 division one games since joining the Socon. They haven't won a playoff game since 1991. Since 2012, their win percentage is about 60% against FCS foes, which averages out to about 1 game over .500 every season. Samford has lost to at least one team that finished .500 or lower in each of the last four seasons.

By all counts, the only thing keeping Samford in the playoff/conference race is their ability to beat Wofford. It truly is an outlier. Wofford hasn't lost to ETSU, Mercer, or VMI since they rejoined the conference, we've won 19 of 21 against the Citadel, something like 14 of 17 against Western Carolina and 12 of 17 against Chattanooga. Since 2002, the series with Furman is tied at 9-9. But for whatever reason, we are like 4-7 against Samford.

Further, if you look at playoff games, Samford is easily the most disappointing. Furman hasn't had a home playoff game in over a decade, but they've won two road games. The Citadel won an away playoff game. ETSU has only played one playoff game and they lost, but they played much better against Jacksonville State than Samford did in 2013. Chattanooga hasn't won a road playoff game, but they've managed to still win 3 total. And of course, Wofford won a road playoff game against the Citadel in 2016, but also in 2010 against Jacksonville State.

You're creating this weird criteria ("home games are a big deal") that doesn't sustain your argument. What's more, with the exception of Youngstown State, these away games are less than 2 hours away and have been for opening round games that neutralize home field advantage. So though I can agree playing Jacksonville State on the road is tough, the thanksgiving day weekend crowd makes it less tough, and the travel distance itself that Samford took to JSU and KSU was shorter than Wofford to the Citadel or Furman to Elon.

Samford is a team that has Wofford's number, but if you look beyond that, they are depressingly mediocre and inconsistent. I'd rather draw Samford in the playoffs when everyone thinks they're decent than in late September/Early October because they don't show up when you need them to. The same can't be said about the other 5 playoff teams. If anything, they overperform. Samford still has OVC syndrome <shrug emoji>

[SU DOG]

Please.....Samford has won twice in the last decade. You very well may beat us this year (I don't think so, but we will know for sure Nov 11) but look at the record and I wouldn't talk smack. Samford has had some really good teams recently, but much like UTC is snakebit against JSU, Samford has been snakebit vs. UTC.

2018 Samford 27 UTC 20
2017 Samford 21 UTC 23
2016 Samford 21 UTC 41
2015 Samford 21 UTC 31
2014 Samford 24 UTC 38
2013 Samford 17 UTC 14 OT (starting QB Huesman had torn up knee)
2012 Samford 13 UTC 20
2011 Samford 9 UTC 24
2010 Samford 14 UTC 48
2019 Samford 7 UTC 14

Whoa! You must have misunderstood my post, as you proved my point. We have totally been clobbered by the Mocs - NOTHING smack about my post.

[SU DOG]

the only thing Keeping Wofford from getting a (higher) seed the last 4 times we made the playoffs was losing to Samford.

In 2012, we beat Samford, we're 9-2, outright Socon champs, likely with a seed. In 2016, we're 9-2 with our only FCS loss to the Citadel in OT. Probably a seed. In 2017, we were 9-2, 7-1 and outright Socon champs, but would have been a seed (10-1) without a loss to Samford. Last year, just like 2012, we probably get a seed at 9-2 as outright socon champs.

Now, look at the flipside:

Samford hasn't won 8 division one games since joining the Socon. They haven't won a playoff game since 1991. Since 2012, their win percentage is about 60% against FCS foes, which averages out to about 1 game over .500 every season. Samford has lost to at least one team that finished .500 or lower in each of the last four seasons.

By all counts, the only thing keeping Samford in the playoff/conference race is their ability to beat Wofford. It truly is an outlier. Wofford hasn't lost to ETSU, Mercer, or VMI since they rejoined the conference, we've won 19 of 21 against the Citadel, something like 14 of 17 against Western Carolina and 12 of 17 against Chattanooga. Since 2002, the series with Furman is tied at 9-9. But for whatever reason, we are like 4-7 against Samford.

Further, if you look at playoff games, Samford is easily the most disappointing. Furman hasn't had a home playoff game in over a decade, but they've won two road games. The Citadel won an away playoff game. ETSU has only played one playoff game and they lost, but they played much better against Jacksonville State than Samford did in 2013. Chattanooga hasn't won a road playoff game, but they've managed to still win 3 total. And of course, Wofford won a road playoff game against the Citadel in 2016, but also in 2010 against Jacksonville State.

You're creating this weird criteria ("home games are a big deal") that doesn't sustain your argument. What's more, with the exception of Youngstown State, these away games are less than 2 hours away and have been for opening round games that neutralize home field advantage. So though I can agree playing Jacksonville State on the road is tough, the thanksgiving day weekend crowd makes it less tough, and the travel distance itself that Samford took to JSU and KSU was shorter than Wofford to the Citadel or Furman to Elon.

Samford is a team that has Wofford's number, but if you look beyond that, they are depressingly mediocre and inconsistent. I'd rather draw Samford in the playoffs when everyone thinks they're decent than in late September/Early October because they don't show up when you need them to. The same can't be said about the other 5 playoff teams. If anything, they overperform. Samford still has OVC syndrome <shrug emoji>

I'm not creating any wild criteria. I don't even disagree that our Playoff games have been disappointing, but what I stand by is the fact that @JSU, @Youngstown, and @ Kennesaw State is a taller order than most(not all but most) of those SoCon wins that you reference. Disagreement with that statement is just plain ludicrous.

[JSUSoutherner]

Burgess-Snow is a very nice stadium for sure, and you could argue better than any in the SoCon, but I think it's proceeded as nicer say then Chattanooga's Finley Stadium due in part to the face that it is normally pretty full, whereas Finley Stadium is half full on a good day. The "new" home side looks great, and certainly looks impressive. They turned the "old" home side to the visitors side, and it's quite pedestrian and actually felt like a (large) old HS stadium to me. The visitors locker rooms are still in a dumpy looking building off to the side of the field and there isn't any room between the sidelines and the field itself. I will say they have done a nice job with the old bones of the existing stadium and I absolutely love the way they put their press box, where they film the games from, in the "old" press box on the visitors side. This way the camera is facing the impressive "new" home side. It really looks good on TV, unlike Finley where the camera is facing the empty side, which especially early in the year when it faces the sun is beyond empty. I think with a little re-fresh and 10K more people, Finley would be the nicer facility (I'm sure JSU fan(s) will disagree). I'll also add that, though small, ETSU's new stadium is very nice, and Mercer's looks nice as well though I haven't made it to a game there yet.


The thing that impresses me the most about JSU is they way they have been able to build a fan base. I went to the game when we played them in 2005, in the "old" Burgess Snow, and though it was well attended, with maybe 13K in the stands, I think they now average close to 20K and they are right in the heart of SEC country. Chattanooga had a great run and was ranked as high as #3 in the country and we can barely manage to get 10K to a game.

Finley, the stadium itself, is solid, but overall our stadium is better and it's not really close. Yeah, our visitor sideline maybe a little old, but at least our stadium isn't in a dump.

[UpstateBison]

the only thing Keeping Wofford from getting a (higher) seed the last 4 times we made the playoffs was losing to Samford.

In 2012, we beat Samford, we're 9-2, outright Socon champs, likely with a seed. In 2016, we're 9-2 with our only FCS loss to the Citadel in OT. Probably a seed. In 2017, we were 9-2, 7-1 and outright Socon champs, but would have been a seed (10-1) without a loss to Samford. Last year, just like 2012, we probably get a seed at 9-2 as outright socon champs.

Now, look at the flipside:

Samford hasn't won 8 division one games since joining the Socon. They haven't won a playoff game since 1991. Since 2012, their win percentage is about 60% against FCS foes, which averages out to about 1 game over .500 every season. Samford has lost to at least one team that finished .500 or lower in each of the last four seasons.

By all counts, the only thing keeping Samford in the playoff/conference race is their ability to beat Wofford. It truly is an outlier. Wofford hasn't lost to ETSU, Mercer, or VMI since they rejoined the conference, we've won 19 of 21 against the Citadel, something like 14 of 17 against Western Carolina and 12 of 17 against Chattanooga. Since 2002, the series with Furman is tied at 9-9. But for whatever reason, we are like 4-7 against Samford.

Further, if you look at playoff games, Samford is easily the most disappointing. Furman hasn't had a home playoff game in over a decade, but they've won two road games. The Citadel won an away playoff game. ETSU has only played one playoff game and they lost, but they played much better against Jacksonville State than Samford did in 2013. Chattanooga hasn't won a road playoff game, but they've managed to still win 3 total. And of course, Wofford won a road playoff game against the Citadel in 2016, but also in 2010 against Jacksonville State.

You're creating this weird criteria ("home games are a big deal") that doesn't sustain your argument. What's more, with the exception of Youngstown State, these away games are less than 2 hours away and have been for opening round games that neutralize home field advantage. So though I can agree playing Jacksonville State on the road is tough, the thanksgiving day weekend crowd makes it less tough, and the travel distance itself that Samford took to JSU and KSU was shorter than Wofford to the Citadel or Furman to Elon.

Samford is a team that has Wofford's number, but if you look beyond that, they are depressingly mediocre and inconsistent. I'd rather draw Samford in the playoffs when everyone thinks they're decent than in late September/Early October because they don't show up when you need them to. The same can't be said about the other 5 playoff teams. If anything, they overperform. Samford still has OVC syndrome <shrug emoji>

I think it would help if Wofford played a quality OOC opponent. JMU, KSU, JSU are all reasonable. Presby, GWU, SC State does nothing for the Wofford SOS.


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[Reign of Terrier]

I think it would help if Wofford played a quality OOC opponent. JMU, KSU, JSU are all reasonable. Presby, GWU, SC State does nothing for the Wofford SOS.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe do. Every year in the playoffs. And we snag one every year, usually.

The playoff committee has a recency bias that favors playoff stalwarts over up and comers. If you look at New Hampshire in 2017, that's what happened to them.

If Wofford goes 8-3 without a bad loss, we are almost certainly in the playoffs every year. How good we are is pretty much entrenched in the FCS's collective memory. But Mercer, VMI, WCU, Samford and ETSU? They need a quality OOC win. The best one any of those teams have is maybe Southeastern Louisiana by Samford in 2016. And the lack of playoff victories by Chatt and the Citadel puts them in a bind, scheduling-wise, but they're making up for it this year.

Furman doesn't need to schedule tough OOC either, they just need D1 wins and to finish in the top 3 of the socon every year. Scheduling tough helped them in 2017 (beating up a so-so Colgate team and losing a tough one to a decent Elon team) but it hurt them last year with that one game getting canceled and they lost the other one.

Right now, Wofford is in the best team of any in the socon in terms of scheduling for playoff consideration. We haven't played a sub-FCS team since 2016 (which is a record for us) and we're taking a bye as opposed to an extra FBS game this year, which is honestly better than Furman, ETSU and WCU's scheduling this year (2 FBS games, weak FCS team, and sub FCS team). Where the citadel, Samford, and Chattanooga have put themselves in a decent place in terms of getting 7-8 D1 wins with 3 OOC FCS wins, the other 3 mentioned have to hope for an upset or to basically win the socon to make the playoffs (at least 6 wins in conference)

People forget that the socon got 4 in the playoffs in 2016. The socon is a tough conference. All you need to get in the playoffs is win 7-8 D1 games and have 1-2 wins against a ranked team, if you don't win the conference outright (provided it's a strong conference like the socon, big sky, etc). No need to make it too complicated. People forget how tough that is to do, when last year the reason why positioning was so contentious was bc so few fulfilled that criteria.

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[Reign of Terrier]

There's no point in playing a tough schedule if you're already established as a playoff brand and play in a conference that regularly has 3+ teams competing for a playoff spot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furman last year is the ultimate lesson for that.

In 2018, the socon had 3 teams that were 1 win away from being in (FU, Samford) or at least on the bubble (UTC)

Heck, the socon may have gotten 4 in in 2017, has Western not scheduled a D2 and UNC for their spare game for the Hawaii game. Heck, had they beaten Mercer, they would have been better off.

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[Reign of Terrier]

I'm not creating any wild criteria. I don't even disagree that our Playoff games have been disappointing, but what I stand by is the fact that @JSU, @Youngstown, and @ Kennesaw State is a taller order than most(not all but most) of those SoCon wins that you reference. Disagreement with that statement is just plain ludicrous.The playoffs are a tall order for everyone. Furman lost to Elon at home in 2017 and had to turn around and play them @ their place. Playing Coastal Carolina in Conway was a tall order for the Citadel as well. Playing the Citadel in Charleston when they beat us at home wasn't easy either.

The distinction of "well it was on the road" isn't an explanation, it's an excuse. Playoff games are tough and Samford doesn't know how to win them.

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[SU DOG]

"Well it was on the road" are your words, and are neither an explanation or an excuse. Of our 3 opponents, one went on to play for the Natty, and neither of the other 2 were beaten in their next game. Based on these 3 games you can paint the BROAD brush to say that Samford doesn't know how to win. - amazing!

[Reign of Terrier]

"Well it was on the road" are your words, and are neither an explanation or an excuse. Of our 3 opponents, one went on to play for the Natty, and neither of the other 2 were beaten in their next game. Based on these 3 games you can paint the BROAD brush to say that Samford doesn't know how to win. - amazing!Socon titles since 2014:
Wofford: 2
Chattanooga: 2
Citadel: 2
Furman: 1
ETSU: 1
Samford: 0

Playoff wins since 1990:
Furman: 10
Wofford: 9
Chattanooga: 3
Citadel: 2
Samford: 2
ETSU: 1

This is really too easy. I don't see how anyone could say Samford ever shows up when it matters because they haven't. Furman, Wofford, Chattanooga, and The Citadel have each won at least one outright socon title too.


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[gofurman]

There's no point in playing a tough schedule if you're already established as a playoff brand and play in a conference that regularly has 3+ teams competing for a playoff spot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furman last year is the ultimate lesson for that.

In 2018, the socon had 3 teams that were 1 win away from being in (FU, Samford) or at least on the bubble (UTC)

Heck, the socon may have gotten 4 in in 2017, has Western not scheduled a D2 and UNC for their spare game for the Hawaii game. Heck, had they beaten Mercer, they would have been better off.

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Furman last year is the ultimate lesson for that." Exactly. Shoulda played Charleston Southern insteada'
Clemson or whomever FBS we played. That's CLEARLY what the committee wants. CLEARLY

[SU DOG]

What's EASY to see Reign of Terror is that there is a little butt-hurt showing up in your disgust of Samford. Hang in there, as you will probably be able to get some badly needed relief this season.

[Reign of Terrier]

What's EASY to see Reign of Terror is that there is a little butt-hurt showing up in your disgust of Samford. Hang in there, as you will probably be able to get some badly needed relief this season.I'm not butt hurt, I just think Samford is singlehandedly holding by back the conference with their inconsistency.

Win one big game when it counts instead of getting #Hatched and the perception of the socon changes overnight. Beat the citadel last year, make the playoffs as socon champs. Beat Kennesaw State in the playoffs before that or don't choke against Chattanooga and the socon looks so much better, with probably two seeds. Don't lose to ETSU, and maybe you don't get shipped to Youngstown. It goes on.

Meanwhile, keep moving the goal posts. It doesn't really matter if I'm butt hurt or not, Samford still chokes by all reasonable standards of choking.

Meanwhile, my team is coming off back to back socon championships and we look pretty good right now. It's a new season that looks bright.

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[SU DOG]

R of T, I agree with you about the Terriers, and I have often been disappointed in some narrow losses and under achievements (like last year) that we have had. Maybe if we could have held on to the last 4 minutes against FSU things would have been totally different. I cannot, however, just agree with someone saying that my team is a chocker and a loser. Maybe this will be the year we will surprise the SoCon in a good way.

[PaladinFan]

What's EASY to see Reign of Terror is that there is a little butt-hurt showing up in your disgust of Samford. Hang in there, as you will probably be able to get some badly needed relief this season.

Everyone doesn't have it out for Samford. They do a lot of things well, but there are some valid criticisms of the program (as there are of every program).

[PaladinFan]

There's no point in playing a tough schedule if you're already established as a playoff brand and play in a conference that regularly has 3+ teams competing for a playoff spot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Furman last year is the ultimate lesson for that.

In 2018, the socon had 3 teams that were 1 win away from being in (FU, Samford) or at least on the bubble (UTC)

Heck, the socon may have gotten 4 in in 2017, has Western not scheduled a D2 and UNC for their spare game for the Hawaii game. Heck, had they beaten Mercer, they would have been better off.

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I realized last season that strength of schedule really doesn't seem to matter that much. Wofford can roll out essentially the same schedule every year - a schedule they know they can probably reach 8 wins with.

There is a great deal of bias in the polling nationally. A team will start out highly ranked because of recency bias (name recognition, last year's results). It is much harder for those teams to fall in the polls than a team to climb them.

KSU, for instance, will play an incredibly soft schedule this year. They will start the season highly ranked and probably not play an objectively "good" football team all season. They will stay high in the polls, probably get a seed, and some SoCon team that went through a war to make the playoffs will have to play them on the road. It isn't fair to do it that way, but it is what it is.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm not butt hurt, I just think Samford is singlehandedly holding by back the conference with their inconsistency.

Win one big game when it counts instead of getting #Hatched and the perception of the socon changes overnight. Beat the citadel last year, make the playoffs as socon champs. Beat Kennesaw State in the playoffs before that or don't choke against Chattanooga and the socon looks so much better, with probably two seeds. Don't lose to ETSU, and maybe you don't get shipped to Youngstown. It goes on.

Meanwhile, keep moving the goal posts. It doesn't really matter if I'm butt hurt or not, Samford still chokes by all reasonable standards of choking.

Meanwhile, my team is coming off back to back socon championships and we look pretty good right now. It's a new season that looks bright.

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Samford is holding back the SoCon?

They've been the best SoCon team not named Wofford since the reign of Huesman ended.

[Milktruck74]

Samford is holding back the SoCon?

They've been the best SoCon team not named Wofford since the reign of Huesman ended.

Uhhh...your qualifier is only two seasons. Like the 2 seasons that APSU won a few games.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Uhhh...your qualifier is only two seasons. Like the 2 seasons that APSU won a few games.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt was actually 1 season. But even so, Samford at least has flashes of being good. What has VMI, WCU, Mercer done?

Sure Samford may tank without a Hodges, but to say they are 'singlehandedly' holding back the SoCon is hogwash.

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[PaladinNation]

All this schedule talk - caused me to pause on the fact FU has a new athletic director from the northeast (Nova).
On one hand I see the Donnelly hire as a big lift for basketball, but Donnelly also had his hand in big fundraising numbers for football.

I wonder if the Donnelly hire will see Furman play a few more CAA series in the future? I'd love to see Richmond, W&M, Nova, Delaware, and others on the schedule. After the cancelled Colgate game last year - that series is upside down, I don't see Furman agreeing to the new home and home series without working out a makeup.

As CCH continues to build Furman into the type of team he visions, the Paladins will become less attractive to play. The word on the street last season was that Furman got zero takers to play that 11th game. Furman's offense last season IMO is a mini-version of what we will see by 2020-2021, as Furman becomes more difficult to matchup and prep for its multi-option offense, the Dins will have to broaden their OOC net.

Speaking of SoCon/CAA matchups - I wish I could be in Chucktown for the Cit/Towson game. My bet is on the Citadel. First game of the season in Charleston - it's going to be hot. Towson will prep for the option but game speed is another thing, if that game is close going into the second half the Dogs will be hard to beat.

[MR. CHICKEN]

All this schedule talk - caused me to pause on the fact FU has a new athletic director from the northeast (Nova).
On one hand I see the Donnelly hire as a big lift for basketball, but Donnelly also had his hand in big fundraising numbers for football.

I wonder if the Donnelly hire will see Furman play a few more CAA series in the future? I'd love to see Richmond, W&M, Nova, Delaware, and others on the schedule. After the cancelled Colgate game last year - that series is upside down, I don't see Furman agreeing to the new home and home series without working out a makeup.

As CCH continues to build Furman into the type of team he visions, the Paladins will become less attractive to play. The word on the street last season was that Furman got zero takers to play that 11th game. Furman's offense last season IMO is a mini-version of what we will see by 2020-2021, as Furman becomes more difficult to matchup and prep for its multi-option offense, the Dins will have to broaden their OOC net.

Speaking of SoCon/CAA matchups - I wish I could be in Chucktown for the Cit/Towson game. My bet is on the Citadel. First game of the season in Charleston - it's going to be hot. Towson will prep for the option but game speed is another thing, if that game is close going into the second half the Dogs will be hard to beat.

......'MEMBERAH.....WHEN FURPLE QUIT ON DUH HENS.....FOR UH DUCAT GAME.......AFTERAH.....HENS CAME TA GREENVILLE......xconfusedx....AWK!

......DID EVERAH-ONE FEAR...DUH VERMIN..........OR WERE SKEDS IN STONE....xconfusedx....WAY YOUSE STARTED LAST SEASON......WOODN'T UH SCARED.....MARS HILL....xrolleyesx.....BRAWK!

[JSUSoutherner]

......'MEMBERAH.....WHEN FURPLE QUIT ON DUH HENS.....FOR UH DUCAT GAME.......AFTERAH.....HENS CAME TA GREENVILLE......xconfusedx....AWK!

......DID EVERAH-ONE FEAR...DUH VERMIN..........OR WERE SKEDS IN STONE....xconfusedx....WAY YOUSE STARTED LAST SEASON......WOODN'T UH SCARED.....MARS HILL....xrolleyesx.....BRAWK!

Oh so we aren't the only team Furman has backed out on recently?

Interesting.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Oh so we aren't the only team Furman has backed out on ?

Interesting.

..........xsmhx.......................BRAWK!

[JSUSoutherner]

..........xsmhx.......................BRAWK!Did I misunderstand your post then?

Honestly it seems the longer I'm here the harder you get to understand.

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[PaladinFan]

Oh so we aren't the only team Furman has backed out on recently?

Interesting.


These games are handled by contracts. Games are bought out and changed constantly in college football. Delaware (and JSU, if that happened) got compensated for their trouble. It happens.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Did I misunderstand your post then?

Honestly it seems the longer I'm here the harder you get to understand.

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......SHAKIN' HEAD.....NOPE......TA YER RESPONSE...UH.......SO WE AREN'T DUH OWN-LAH ONES..........NEED TA WATCH MO'.....LOONEY TUNES..........AWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

These games are handled by contracts. Games are bought out and changed constantly in college football. Delaware (and JSU, if that happened) got compensated for their trouble. It happens.


......WHEN DAT HAPPENED............BRAWK!

......2008 WE LOST TA YOUSE 23-21........SO AH'M GUESSIN'...... MAYBEAH IT WAS 2009.......AWK!

[Reign of Terrier]

I realized last season that strength of schedule really doesn't seem to matter that much. Wofford can roll out essentially the same schedule every year - a schedule they know they can probably reach 8 wins with.

There is a great deal of bias in the polling nationally. A team will start out highly ranked because of recency bias (name recognition, last year's results). It is much harder for those teams to fall in the polls than a team to climb them.

KSU, for instance, will play an incredibly soft schedule this year. They will start the season highly ranked and probably not play an objectively "good" football team all season. They will stay high in the polls, probably get a seed, and some SoCon team that went through a war to make the playoffs will have to play them on the road. It isn't fair to do it that way, but it is what it is.

Wofford's schedule works because we are 1) an established "brand" so to speak and 2) The Socon is tough.

When 5 of your 9 teams have won a conference championship in the last 4 years, your conference is competitive. The only "tough" conferences that schedule really tough is the MVFC and Big Sky, but in the Big Sky's case, half of their conference is bad and they don't play everyone, so arguably their SOS is weaker without a strong SOS. What's more, there's no real cost difference to fly out for a home and home because they fly everywhere anyway.

But if you're in the Socon and trying to make a splash, you have to schedule tough-ish. In 2016, when Wofford had a 3 year absence from the national eye, we didn't get ranked by anyone until the last month of the season (after we beat Chattanooga). That year Chattanooga, Citadel, Samford, and Wofford were playoff teams so it was a pretty tough schedule. Chatt/the Citadel were the incumbents, being defending conference champs and having a few playoff wins and Samford/Wofford had to differentiate themselves. Samford beat a good Central Arkansas team on the road, which propped them and Wofford up.

In 2017, scheduling helped Furman get on the map by beating Colgate like a drum and playing Elon tough.

Meanwhile, this year, we have less incumbents. Wofford and Furman are the obvious ones, but everyone else needs to make a name for themselves. Citadel, Samford, and Chattanooga have the right idea in scheduling tough but not unwinnable FCS teams.

Having said that, WCU, ETSU, and Furman have done themselves no favors with scheduling. They each may have to win 9 games to clinch a playoff spot.


Samford is holding back the SoCon?

They've been the best SoCon team not named Wofford since the reign of Huesman ended.

Nope, that's easily Furman. More playoff and total wins. Not to mention, Samford has at least one head-scratching loss against a team that is either below .500 or would be below .500 had it not been for them losing to them (2018 Citadel, 2017 Chatt, 2016 ETSU). Neither Wofford or Furman can say that. Heck, no Socon playoff team can say that.

Take away Samford's wins against Wofford and they are the equivalent of Mercer or Western Carolina over the last 4 years.

[Milktruck74]

Oh so we aren't the only team Furman has backed out on recently?

Interesting.

I guess you are seeing a trend. Can you blame people For not wanting to go to Jacksonville AL? Who wants to hang out at Cooters Rib Shack for An entire weekend? Your own students don’t want to be there...why would anybody else? Ha


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[JSUSoutherner]

These games are handled by contracts. Games are bought out and changed constantly in college football. Delaware (and JSU, if that happened) got compensated for their trouble. It happens.2015. It's my understanding you guys bailed to get UCF. We had to fill with MVSU.

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[Reign of Terrier]

I feel like FCS teams backing out of games for weird reasons (often financial) is common at the FCS relative to FBS. Montana State backed out of a game against NDSU, for instance.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....POINT IS......DUH FURMAN LAD'S.....POST.....SEEMS TA DRIP UH....DISAPPOINTMENT......WHEN COLGATE.......CANCELLED FO' WEATHER..........JES' LIKE DELAWARE FANS.....WHOM WERE DISSED........FO' DUCATS........WE ALL KNOW.....CANCELLATIONS HAPPEN.....JES' REMINDIN'.........FURPLE'S.......DEY DID IT TOO...........AWK!

[Milktruck74]

It was actually 1 season. But even so, Samford at least has flashes of being good. What has VMI, WCU, Mercer done?

Sure Samford may tank without a Hodges, but to say they are 'singlehandedly' holding back the SoCon is hogwash.

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I’d count a few more teams that are “holding back the SoCon” before I ever get to Sanford. I will say the past plan of “score a lot and to hell with playing defense” hasn’t worked too well against well balanced teams. I think as they get their D in order they will be much more of an OOC threat. As for
Mercer, they are still in a building phase, but that phase is coming to an end, it’s “put up or shut up” time. And well, VMI is a lost cause.


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[PaladinFan]

.....POINT IS......DUH FURMAN LAD'S.....POST.....SEEMS TA DRIP UH....DISAPPOINTMENT......WHEN COLGATE.......CANCELLED FO' WEATHER..........JES' LIKE DELAWARE FANS.....WHOM WERE DISSED........FO' DUCATS........WE ALL KNOW.....CANCELLATIONS HAPPEN.....JES' REMINDIN'.........FURPLE'S.......DEY DID IT TOO...........AWK!

Furman paid Delaware and they had a chance to schedule a home game to replace them (Delaware State if I recall).

I have no idea whether Furman was compensated for Colgate bailing last season. Furman had to cancel a home game (and all the gate sales, concessions, etc. that come with a home game) on about 3 days notice without a substitute game.

[Mocs123]

Samford isn't holding back the conference IMO. Yes they are inconsistant, but they have been good.

Mercer has been a solid team. Not great, but solid. IMO they would be 2nd place in the OVC or Big South.

Woffords scheduling may not hurt Wofford, but to increase the prestege of the conference and thus get more teams in the playoffs we need our best teams (like Wofford) playing, and winning good OOC games. The only way a conference gets more prestege is by beating good teams in the OOC schedule and winning playoff games.

- - - Updated - - -

Samford isn't holding back the conference IMO. Yes they are inconsistant, but they have been good.

Mercer has been a solid team. Not great, but solid. IMO they would be 2nd place in the OVC or Big South.

Woffords scheduling may not hurt Wofford, but to increase the prestege of the conference and thus get more teams in the playoffs we need our best teams (like Wofford) playing, and winning good OOC games. The only way a conference gets more prestege is by beating good teams in the OOC schedule and winning playoff games.

[JSUSoutherner]

I’d count a few more teams that are “holding back the SoCon” before I ever get to Sanford.
This is essentially my point.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Furman paid Delaware and they had a chance to schedule a home game to replace them (Delaware State if I recall).

I have no idea whether Furman was compensated for Colgate bailing last season. Furman had to cancel a home game (and all the gate sales, concessions, etc. that come with a home game) on about 3 days notice without a substitute game.


........TELL IT...TA MOTHER NATURE/GOD.......OR PASSERBYS....IN GREENVILLE.........BRAWK!

[SU DOG]

It was actually 1 season. But even so, Samford at least has flashes of being good. What has VMI, WCU, Mercer done?

Sure Samford may tank without a Hodges, but to say they are 'singlehandedly' holding back the SoCon is hogwash.

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Herein lies some of the hypocrisy. You see Samford has not lost to Wofford or Furman since 2015. However, when we lose to a lesser SoCon team(and yes that is frustrating), we are severely dissed, while the same criticism never seems to be mentioned for these 2 teams - at least not here on AGS. How can them losing to us not be the same scenario? Our scheduling of lesser division teams was considered really bad for the conference(see AGS archives), but now it's evident how that was also hypocrisy. Hogwash is a good word applying to the thought that we are holding back the SoCon. Actually, the conference is making strides now to better itself. I say this because of really good recruiting recently by many SoCon teams. I think Playoff Games will reflect this very soon. There must be some SoCon interest - just look at the number of posts on here, LOL!

[FUBeAR]

Woffords scheduling may not hurt Wofford, but to increase the prestege of the conference and thus get more teams in the playoffs we need our best teams (like Wofford) playing, and winning good OOC games. The only way a conference gets more prestege is by beating good teams in the OOC schedule

Agree - for example - I think if Mercer had beaten Yale last year, then Furman would have gotten a Playoff bid.

Logic that I think would have been applied...Furman +5 > Mercer +X > Yale +21 > (CAA Autobid) Maine. Hard to keep FU out if that win over Mercer becomes a ‘higher quality win.’

[PaladinFan]

Agree - for example - I think if Mercer had beaten Yale last year, then Furman would have gotten a Playoff bid.

Logic that I think would have been applied...Furman +5 > Mercer +X > Yale +21 > (CAA Autobid) Maine. Hard to keep FU out if that win over Mercer becomes a ‘higher quality win.’

Logic doesn't apply, though.

[FUBeAR]

Logic doesn't apply, though.LOL - I was going to reply to your earlier post (#900) with what I always told my kids the ONLY definition of “fair” is...

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190723162932-01-ohio-state-fair-sensory-kits-0723-large-169.jpg

[Reign of Terrier]

It was actually 1 season. But even so, Samford at least has flashes of being good. What has VMI, WCU, Mercer done?

Sure Samford may tank without a Hodges, but to say they are 'singlehandedly' holding back the SoCon is hogwash.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk




- - - Updated - - -

Samford isn't holding back the conference IMO. Yes they are inconsistant, but they have been good.

Mercer has been a solid team. Not great, but solid. IMO they would be 2nd place in the OVC or Big South.

Woffords scheduling may not hurt Wofford, but to increase the prestege of the conference and thus get more teams in the playoffs we need our best teams (like Wofford) playing, and winning good OOC games. The only way a conference gets more prestege is by beating good teams in the OOC schedule and winning playoff games.

Wofford is the most prestigious team in the Socon right now. We have more playoff wins in the last 3 years than the rest of the conference combined. We're not the problem.

The fact is, every conference has bottom feeders. The existence of bottom feeders or even perennial bottom feeders doesn't mean a conference is being held back by them. It's just a statistical reality that some teams will be always near the bottom if there are some teams that are always at the top.

The Socon is a lot better than we were when App State/GSU were in the league because the bottom tier, other than VMI, rotates to the middle tier pretty often.

It used to be that we had 3 teams always at the top (App, GSU, and pending on the year Wofford/Furman), and 2 teams that were in the middle (Samford, Furman/Wofford pending on the year) and 3 teams that were almost always at the bottom (Elon, Chattanooga, WCU, and the Citadel). Admittedly, there was variation in the bottom tier teams. Everyone but Western elevated themselves to mid-tier at some point, but between ~2004-2012, this was roughly the hierarchy. But regardless of the specific ranking, you could count on the top 3 to not lose to the bottom 6 (again, there were exceptions, but they were rare, and if they happened, it was to the mid-tier, not bottom tier).

TL;DR "back in the day" the Socon had a pretty established hierarchy which gave the conference strong top-tier teams, decent middle-tier teams and bad low-tier teams.

But since 2016, Samford has been in the top 4 or so, but they consistently lose to bottom tier teams which hurts everyone. The Socon would be better off with Samford as top tier or bottom tier, but this middling bull**** is what's holding us back.

If, in 2016, Samford doesn't lose to ETSU, the Socon has 4 strong playoff teams and maybe gets a better draw than @ Youngstown State. If they don't beat Wofford, there's a strong-ish chance that Wofford gets a seed (it's a huge counterfactual because it happened at the middle of the season, but it would have changed rankings IMO), which would have been better on balance than Wofford not getting a seed, getting matched up with the Citadel in the second round. Or, they could have just beaten YSU.

In 2017, if Samford doesn't lost to Chattanooga, they tie for the Socon championship, maybe get a seed (because Wofford was seeded) or Wofford gets a better seed. Maybe Western Carolina gets into the playoffs with a quality win against Samford. Or Samford could have just beaten Kennesaw State.

And last year, Samford beat the tri-champs, definitely costing Furman a spot in the playoffs. It would have been fine had they just beaten the Citadel and made the playoffs themselves.

(My anger is not just Wofford winning a donut amount against Samford in the last 4 tries, it's that Samford's hurt the entire socon)

The underlying pattern in all of this is that if Samford showed up against teams they should have beaten or had taken the L against the other top tier teams or simply won a playoff game the Socon would be better off than what they're currently doing. In this way, Samford isn't a dark horse or a juggernaut. They're a spoiler.

[Reign of Terrier]

Herein lies some of the hypocrisy. You see Samford has not lost to Wofford or Furman since 2015. However, when we lose to a lesser SoCon team(and yes that is frustrating), we are severely dissed, while the same criticism never seems to be mentioned for these 2 teams - at least not here on AGS. How can them losing to us not be the same scenario? Our scheduling of lesser division teams was considered really bad for the conference(see AGS archives), but now it's evident how that was also hypocrisy. Hogwash is a good word applying to the thought that we are holding back the SoCon. Actually, the conference is making strides now to better itself. I say this because of really good recruiting recently by many SoCon teams. I think Playoff Games will reflect this very soon. There must be some SoCon interest - just look at the number of posts on here, LOL!

Samford's holding the socon back because we're better off with them being mediocre and never beating the top tier teams or being top tier and regularly winning Socon championships.

Every conference has teams that are always at the bottom. It's part of sports. Perennial good teams require perennial bad teams. Samford's inconsistency has brought down the top tier of the conference in each of the last 3 seasons. We could have had more seeds in 2016 and 2017, while having another playoff bid in 2018. All Samford had to do was pick a lane. It would be one thing if losing meaningless games were common for the rest of the top tier or if the mid tier regularly beat the top tier, but Samford is the only one that does either.

[SU DOG]

Samford's holding the socon back because we're better off with them being mediocre and never beating the top tier teams or being top tier and regularly winning Socon championships.

Every conference has teams that are always at the bottom. It's part of sports. Perennial good teams require perennial bad teams. Samford's inconsistency has brought down the top tier of the conference in each of the last 3 seasons. We could have had more seeds in 2016 and 2017, while having another playoff bid in 2018. All Samford had to do was pick a lane. It would be one thing if losing meaningless games were common for the rest of the top tier or if the mid tier regularly beat the top tier, but Samford is the only one that does either.

Completely laughable - Samford is being blamed for winning. LOL! While all these top tier teams had to do was "pick a lane" and simply win those games. Somehow that is tough logic to follow.

[PaladinFan]

LOL - I was going to reply to your earlier post (#900) with what I always told my kids the ONLY definition of “fair” is...

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190723162932-01-ohio-state-fair-sensory-kits-0723-large-169.jpg

I look at at the playoffs like baseball umpires - handle your business and don't leave it to judgment.

If Furman closes out ETSU, we don't even have conversations about them getting hosed in the playoff selection.

[Mocs123]

I look at at the playoffs like baseball umpires - handle your business and don't leave it to judgment.

If Furman closes out ETSU, we don't even have conversations about them getting hosed in the playoff selection.

I can agree with that. Chattanooga got hosed in 2013, when we were the last man out, but we had our chance. If we had not lost to Samford in OT, we'd have been in for sure, instead we put our self on the bubble and left it in the hands of the selection committee. I'm sure if we'd gotten in, whatever team that got left out would have felt screwed too. Just win and you don't need the committee.

That's one thing I really like about FCS, every team, even Davidson or Valpo, has a shot at the NC every year. Just win and it's yours. You can't say that in FBS, just ask UCF. G5 teams have little to no shot at the NC. Every FCS team controls it's own destiny (or their conference refuses to participate).

[Reign of Terrier]

Completely laughable - Samford is being blamed for winning. LOL! While all these top tier teams had to do was "pick a lane" and simply win those games. Somehow that is tough logic to follow.

You're getting blamed for spoiling the socon and losing to bad teams. Wofford and Furman are squarely in the winning lanes. It's not tough logic to follow, but I don't know what they teach in those baptist schools.

[PaladinFan]

Wofford is the most prestigious team in the Socon right now. We have more playoff wins in the last 3 years than the rest of the conference combined. We're not the problem.

The fact is, every conference has bottom feeders. The existence of bottom feeders or even perennial bottom feeders doesn't mean a conference is being held back by them. It's just a statistical reality that some teams will be always near the bottom if there are some teams that are always at the top.

The Socon is a lot better than we were when App State/GSU were in the league because the bottom tier, other than VMI, rotates to the middle tier pretty often.

It used to be that we had 3 teams always at the top (App, GSU, and pending on the year Wofford/Furman), and 2 teams that were in the middle (Samford, Furman/Wofford pending on the year) and 3 teams that were almost always at the bottom (Elon, Chattanooga, WCU, and the Citadel). Admittedly, there was variation in the bottom tier teams. Everyone but Western elevated themselves to mid-tier at some point, but between ~2004-2012, this was roughly the hierarchy. But regardless of the specific ranking, you could count on the top 3 to not lose to the bottom 6 (again, there were exceptions, but they were rare, and if they happened, it was to the mid-tier, not bottom tier).

TL;DR "back in the day" the Socon had a pretty established hierarchy which gave the conference strong top-tier teams, decent middle-tier teams and bad low-tier teams.

But since 2016, Samford has been in the top 4 or so, but they consistently lose to bottom tier teams which hurts everyone. The Socon would be better off with Samford as top tier or bottom tier, but this middling bull**** is what's holding us back.

If, in 2016, Samford doesn't lose to ETSU, the Socon has 4 strong playoff teams and maybe gets a better draw than @ Youngstown State. If they don't beat Wofford, there's a strong-ish chance that Wofford gets a seed (it's a huge counterfactual because it happened at the middle of the season, but it would have changed rankings IMO), which would have been better on balance than Wofford not getting a seed, getting matched up with the Citadel in the second round. Or, they could have just beaten YSU.

In 2017, if Samford doesn't lost to Chattanooga, they tie for the Socon championship, maybe get a seed (because Wofford was seeded) or Wofford gets a better seed. Maybe Western Carolina gets into the playoffs with a quality win against Samford. Or Samford could have just beaten Kennesaw State.

And last year, Samford beat the tri-champs, definitely costing Furman a spot in the playoffs. It would have been fine had they just beaten the Citadel and made the playoffs themselves.

(My anger is not just Wofford winning a donut amount against Samford in the last 4 tries, it's that Samford's hurt the entire socon)

The underlying pattern in all of this is that if Samford showed up against teams they should have beaten or had taken the L against the other top tier teams or simply won a playoff game the Socon would be better off than what they're currently doing. In this way, Samford isn't a dark horse or a juggernaut. They're a spoiler.

Went back and looked. Furman lost 12 regular season SoCon games between 2000 and 2005. 8 of those losses were to Georgia Southern or App State.

Of the four "other" losses, two of them came in 2003 when Furman had an incredible defense but struggled to score on the Berea High JV team. I think the two non-App/GSU losses that season were by 1 (7-6 to Wofford and 10-9 to the Citadel).

[Reign of Terrier]

Went back and looked. Furman lost 12 regular season SoCon games between 2000 and 2005. 8 of those losses were to Georgia Southern or App State.

Of the four "other" losses, two of them came in 2003 when Furman had an incredible defense but struggled to score on the Berea High JV team. I think the two non-App/GSU losses that season were by 1 (7-6 to Wofford and 10-9 to the Citadel).

And that 2003 Wofford team was 8-0 conference champion.

One cannot classify Samford as top tier, because unlike historic top-tier teams, they lose to bottom-tier teams more often.

[SU DOG]

You're getting blamed for spoiling the socon and losing to bad teams. Wofford and Furman are squarely in the winning lanes. It's not tough logic to follow, but I don't know what they teach in those baptist schools.

One thing that they teach is that you shouldn't blame others for your own shortcomings. I tire of this back and forth, however, as I imagine others on here do also, so you may have the last word. I guess we can agree to disagree. I don't want our banter getting too personal, as I have read and enjoyed many of your posts on many different topice. So again, I disagree with your views on this issue, but I wish you and the Terriers well.

[Mocs123]

As far as FCS OOC play, Chattanooga and The Citadel are a step above everyone else this season

#19 Chattanooga - Eastern Illinois (OVC), #6 Jacksonville State (OVC), #1 James Madison (CAA)

We will find out real quickly if we are back. EIU isn't a great team, but playing two teams in the top 10 is about as tough as it gets. If we win, we really help the SoCon and ourselves. EIU is a little odd, but JSU is a huge rival for UTC and JMU is a top team in the country.

#25 The Citadel - #10 Townson (CAA), #12 Elon (CAA), Charleston Southern (Big South)

Great OOC schedule by the Bulldogs. Townson is a good team, and oddly enough a game I think El Cid can win, Elon is an old SoCon foe, and Charleston Southern is right down the street.

#15 Furman - Charleston Southern (Big South)

I'd give Furman flack here but I won't too much because they normally schedule really well. Chuck South may have been a top 15 team when they scheduled this game, but aren't great now. They play a D2, which I don't remember them doing. One thing of note is they only have 9 potential FCS wins. In a 12 game season where 8 rather than 7 may be the magic number for the playoffs I hope that doesn't come back to bite them (unless it's a Chattanooga victory that bumps them on 11/9).

Mercer - Austin Peay (OVC), Campbell (Pioneer)

Who knows what Austin Peay will look like post Healy, but neither of these games are great OOC games.

Samford - Youngstown St (MVFC), TTU (OVC), Alabama A&M (MEAC)

Samford gets some heat for scheduling some weak teams, generally non D1's but they also schedule some really good teams. The series against Central Arkansas was good for the SoCon, and this year they have a good OOC game against Youngstown, who is only a couple of years away from playing in the title game.
VMI - Robert Morris (Patriot)

Not a great OOC, but VMI just needs winnable games here.

Western Carolina - Gardner-Webb (Big South)

Western's schedule has cost them recently, including a possible playoff invite a couple of years ago. This years OOC isn't any better with two $$ games and a non D1, North Greenville, which is a no win scenario for them.

Wofford - SC State (MEAC), Gardner-Webb (Big South)

I know Wofford doesn't feel like they need to play good teams OOC, but as one of the conferences best teams, this OOC isn't showcasing the quality of SoCon football to the rest of the country (or the selection committee). Wofford will be fine, but they could be a better flag bearer for the rest of the conference.


ETSU - Austin Peay (OVC)

ETSU may have made this schedule before they won the conference last year, but again, if ETSU is one of the best teams in the conference, they could do more to showcase our brand of football. On a side note it's a short trip to Nashville for this game.

[Reign of Terrier]

Oh yes, Wofford blames Samford for our shortcomings in the last 3 years which include 2 socon titles and 4 playoff wins.

Come on now.

This is all Socon shortcomings, not Wofford. Wofford is doing well regardless of the outcome of the Samford games.

[SU DOG]

As far as FCS OOC play, Chattanooga and The Citadel are a step above everyone else this season

#19 Chattanooga - Eastern Illinois (OVC), #6 Jacksonville State (OVC), #1 James Madison (CAA)

We will find out real quickly if we are back. EIU isn't a great team, but playing two teams in the top 10 is about as tough as it gets. If we win, we really help the SoCon and ourselves. EIU is a little odd, but JSU is a huge rival for UTC and JMU is a top team in the country.

#25 The Citadel - #10 Townson (CAA), #12 Elon (CAA), Charleston Southern (Big South)

Great OOC schedule by the Bulldogs. Townson is a good team, and oddly enough a game I think El Cid can win, Elon is an old SoCon foe, and Charleston Southern is right down the street.

#15 Furman - Charleston Southern (Big South)

I'd give Furman flack here but I won't too much because they normally schedule really well. Chuck South may have been a top 15 team when they scheduled this game, but aren't great now. They play a D2, which I don't remember them doing. One thing of note is they only have 9 potential FCS wins. In a 12 game season where 8 rather than 7 may be the magic number for the playoffs I hope that doesn't come back to bite them (unless it's a Chattanooga victory that bumps them on 11/9).

Mercer - Austin Peay (OVC), Campbell (Pioneer)

Who knows what Austin Peay will look like post Healy, but neither of these games are great OOC games.

Samford - Youngstown St (MVFC), TTU (OVC), Alabama A&M (MEAC)

Samford gets some heat for scheduling some weak teams, generally non D1's but they also schedule some really good teams. The series against Central Arkansas was good for the SoCon, and this year they have a good OOC game against Youngstown, who is only a couple of years away from playing in the title game.
VMI - Robert Morris (Patriot)

Not a great OOC, but VMI just needs winnable games here.

Western Carolina - Gardner-Webb (Big South)

Western's schedule has cost them recently, including a possible playoff invite a couple of years ago. This years OOC isn't any better with two $$ games and a non D1, North Greenville, which is a no win scenario for them.

Wofford - SC State (MEAC), Gardner-Webb (Big South)

I know Wofford doesn't feel like they need to play good teams OOC, but as one of the conferences best teams, this OOC isn't showcasing the quality of SoCon football to the rest of the country (or the selection committee). Wofford will be fine, but they could be a better flag bearer for the rest of the conference.


ETSU - Austin Peay (OVC)

ETSU may have made this schedule before they won the conference last year, but again, if ETSU is one of the best teams in the conference, they could do more to showcase our brand of football. On a side note it's a short trip to Nashville for this game.

Just for the sake of accuracy, the Furman lower division team is not even D-2. They have scheduled a NAIA opponent, Point University(3-8 last year). I agree that this is not like Furman, and there must have been some problem in getting that 12th game.

[Reign of Terrier]

As far as FCS OOC play, Chattanooga and The Citadel are a step above everyone else this season

#19 Chattanooga - Eastern Illinois (OVC), #6 Jacksonville State (OVC), #1 James Madison (CAA)

We will find out real quickly if we are back. EIU isn't a great team, but playing two teams in the top 10 is about as tough as it gets. If we win, we really help the SoCon and ourselves. EIU is a little odd, but JSU is a huge rival for UTC and JMU is a top team in the country.

#25 The Citadel - #10 Townson (CAA), #12 Elon (CAA), Charleston Southern (Big South)

Great OOC schedule by the Bulldogs. Townson is a good team, and oddly enough a game I think El Cid can win, Elon is an old SoCon foe, and Charleston Southern is right down the street.

#15 Furman - Charleston Southern (Big South)

I'd give Furman flack here but I won't too much because they normally schedule really well. Chuck South may have been a top 15 team when they scheduled this game, but aren't great now. They play a D2, which I don't remember them doing. One thing of note is they only have 9 potential FCS wins. In a 12 game season where 8 rather than 7 may be the magic number for the playoffs I hope that doesn't come back to bite them (unless it's a Chattanooga victory that bumps them on 11/9).

Mercer - Austin Peay (OVC), Campbell (Pioneer)

Who knows what Austin Peay will look like post Healy, but neither of these games are great OOC games.

Samford - Youngstown St (MVFC), TTU (OVC), Alabama A&M (MEAC)

Samford gets some heat for scheduling some weak teams, generally non D1's but they also schedule some really good teams. The series against Central Arkansas was good for the SoCon, and this year they have a good OOC game against Youngstown, who is only a couple of years away from playing in the title game.
VMI - Robert Morris (Patriot)

Not a great OOC, but VMI just needs winnable games here.

Western Carolina - Gardner-Webb (Big South)

Western's schedule has cost them recently, including a possible playoff invite a couple of years ago. This years OOC isn't any better with two $$ games and a non D1, North Greenville, which is a no win scenario for them.

Wofford - SC State (MEAC), Gardner-Webb (Big South)

I know Wofford doesn't feel like they need to play good teams OOC, but as one of the conferences best teams, this OOC isn't showcasing the quality of SoCon football to the rest of the country (or the selection committee). Wofford will be fine, but they could be a better flag bearer for the rest of the conference.


ETSU - Austin Peay (OVC)

ETSU may have made this schedule before they won the conference last year, but again, if ETSU is one of the best teams in the conference, they could do more to showcase our brand of football. On a side note it's a short trip to Nashville for this game.

Wofford has played the toughest OOC of any team in the Socon except maybe Furman in the last 3 years. We've beaten the Big South Champ, played a national title runner-up, a national title winner, played another Big South champ, and controlled a playoff CAA team.

It's inconsequential that those games were played in the playoffs. If we assume the point of playing a tough OOC is necessary for exposure to the conference and as a measuring stick to the rest of the country, then Wofford's already accomplished that with 7 playoff games.

Relatively speaking, ETSU, Mercer, VMI, and Western Carolina are nobodies on the national scene. Samford, the Citadel, and Chattanooga haven't beaten anyone important out of conference since at least 2016, if at all.

Those teams, not Wofford and Furman, need to schedule and win tough OOC. We've already done it. Just because it's happened on thanksgiving or later doesn't mean it's not there.

[PaladinFan]

Just for the sake of accuracy, the Furman lower division team is not even D-2. They have scheduled a NAIA opponent, Point University(3-8 last year). I agree that this is not like Furman, and there must have been some problem in getting that 12th game.

I think Furman had a massive problem getting a 12th game. It is the first non-D1 team Furman has played in probably 10 years or more.

My understanding was Furman desperately wanted a 6th home game. Furman has spent most of Clay Hendrix's tenure on the road and had their home opener cancelled last season (Colgate).

Counting the post season, Furman played 7 road games in 8 contests dating from October 28, 2017 until September 29, 2018. They opened up with 2018 playing 3 straight on the road.

That said, having a home game, even against a low-level school, was of great importance. I think playing an NAIA school (even one coached by a former Furman player/coach) is a one-off.

[Mocs123]

Unless I'm missing something Chattanooga has played more top 25 teams than Wofford (11 to 5) in recent years and both teams have won 3 playoff games. There is no doubt we haven't won as many of the top 25 matchups as we should, but they have all been close games - all one score or less except the 2017 game with JSU, and two of those losses were in games went to OT. Both Wofford and Chattanooga have been good but not great in the playoffs, winning against teams we probably should beat and losing to higher ranked teams. Chattanooga lost to two #1 teams by 5 points, and lost to runner up JSU in OT. Wofford lost a nail biter to KSU and fell in 2OT to Youngstown, who I believe was runner up that year. Wofford did get hammered by NDSU, but Chattanooga probably wouldn't have faired any better if we had played them in '14, '15, or '16.

Chattanooga
2019 - #6 Jacksonville State, #1 James Madison
2018 - None
2017 - #5 Jacksonville State
2016 - #23 Weber State (playoffs), #1 Sam Houston State (playoffs)
2015 - #7 Jacksonville State, #17 Fordham (playoffs), #1 Jacksonville State (playoffs)
2014 - #9 Jacksonville State, #21 Indiana State (playoffs), #1 New Hampshire (playoffs)

Wofford
2019 – None
2018 – Elon (playoffs), Kennesaw State (playoffs)
2017 – North Dakota State (playoffs)
2016- Charleston Southern (playoffs), Youngstown State (playoffs)
2015 – None
2014 - None

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Furman had a massive problem getting a 12th game. It is the first non-D1 team Furman has played in probably 10 years or more.

My understanding was Furman desperately wanted a 6th home game. Furman has spent most of Clay Hendrix's tenure on the road and had their home opener cancelled last season (Colgate).

Counting the post season, Furman played 7 road games in 8 contests dating from October 28, 2017 until September 29, 2018. They opened up with 2018 playing 3 straight on the road.

That said, having a home game, even against a low-level school, was of great importance. I think playing an NAIA school (even one coached by a former Furman player/coach) is a one-off.Goodness. And I thought Wofford's scheduling was road-centric

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

Unless I'm missing something Chattanooga has played more top 25 teams than Wofford (11 to 5) in recent years and both teams have won 3 playoff games. There is no doubt we haven't won as many of the top 25 matchups as we should, but they have all been close games - all one score or less except the 2017 game with JSU, and two of those losses were in games went to OT. Both Wofford and Chattanooga have been good but not great in the playoffs, winning against teams we probably should beat and losing to higher ranked teams. Chattanooga lost to two #1 teams by 5 points, and lost to runner up JSU in OT. Wofford lost a nail biter to KSU and fell in 2OT to Youngstown, who I believe was runner up that year. Wofford did get hammered by NDSU, but Chattanooga probably wouldn't have faired any better if we had played them in '14, '15, or '16.

Chattanooga
2019 - #6 Jacksonville State, #1 James Madison
2018 - None
2017 - #5 Jacksonville State
2016 - #23 Weber State (playoffs), #1 Sam Houston State (playoffs)
2015 - #7 Jacksonville State, #17 Fordham (playoffs), #1 Jacksonville State (playoffs)
2014 - #9 Jacksonville State, #21 Indiana State (playoffs), #1 New Hampshire (playoffs)

Wofford
2019 – None
2018 – Elon (playoffs), Kennesaw State (playoffs)
2017 – North Dakota State (playoffs)
2016- Charleston Southern (playoffs), Youngstown State (playoffs)
2015 – None
2014 - NoneMy point was recency. Both Furman and Wofford has beaten a top 25 team OOC in the last couple of years (and Wofford beat Furman in the playoffs in 2017). Chattanooga has not.

If you're Alabama and play an FCS opponent and a couple sun belt teams OOC, no one really cares if you're winning the SEC and some playoff games.

In this metaphor, Wofford and Furman are Bama. We have won tough OOC games since 2016. We've also been the top two in the conference. Wofford and Furman have lost 7 conference games in the last 2 years, and 6 of them were to each other or Samford.

The FCS knows we're good, the socon knows we're good, we don't have anything to prove.

But no one else in the conference can say that since 2016. They need some quality wins to put themselves on the map.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[gofurman]

Unless I'm missing something Chattanooga has played more top 25 teams than Wofford (11 to 5) in recent years and both teams have won 3 playoff games. There is no doubt we haven't won as many of the top 25 matchups as we should, but they have all been close games - all one score or less except the 2017 game with JSU, and two of those losses were in games went to OT. Both Wofford and Chattanooga have been good but not great in the playoffs, winning against teams we probably should beat and losing to higher ranked teams. Chattanooga lost to two #1 teams by 5 points, and lost to runner up JSU in OT. Wofford lost a nail biter to KSU and fell in 2OT to Youngstown, who I believe was runner up that year. Wofford did get hammered by NDSU, but Chattanooga probably wouldn't have faired any better if we had played them in '14, '15, or '16.

Chattanooga
2019 - #6 Jacksonville State, #1 James Madison
2018 - None
2017 - #5 Jacksonville State
2016 - #23 Weber State (playoffs), #1 Sam Houston State (playoffs)
2015 - #7 Jacksonville State, #17 Fordham (playoffs), #1 Jacksonville State (playoffs)
2014 - #9 Jacksonville State, #21 Indiana State (playoffs), #1 New Hampshire (playoffs)

Wofford
2019 – None
2018 – Elon (playoffs), Kennesaw State (playoffs)
2017 – North Dakota State (playoffs) ****** FURMAN . ????xpeacex *****. YES #19 PLAYOFFS
2016- Charleston Southern (playoffs), Youngstown State (playoffs)
2015 – None
2014 - None


Pains me greatly but we should all be objective with data and pro-SoCon ... I think Furman was top 25 (almost sure!) when Wofford beat us in the 2017 playoffs. Furman made the playoffs in 2017' and beat Elon n the road In 'first round. Then we lost to a strong Wofford team in "second round' - sweet 16. I have to think that we were a top 25 as a playoff team who had won a playoff road game.

So that's one more top 25 scalp for Wofford

EDIT. CONFIRMED. Wofford knocked Furman out of 2017 playoffs and Furman finished that year ranked NUMBER 19

[Mocs123]

I was not including ranked SoCon teams - the rest of the FCS doesn't care if we beat up on each other. I think Wofford also beat The Citadel in the playoffs one year. We need quality wins outside of the conference.

Wofford has clearly been the best SoCon team the past two years and Furman has quickly risen (back) the top tier of the conference. Wofford is known for cyclical performance and we will see if that continues with Conklin or whether that was an Ayers thing. And don't take that as a knock on Ayers, I thought he was the best coach in the SoCon and did the most with the least. There haven't been many years that I felt like Wofford had the most athletic players in the conference, even when they have been the best team in the conference.

Chattanooga had a few years as the creme of the SoCon, and then Arth drove the the ship over the cliff. Hopefully we'll get back on track this year, and we have the schedule to go all or nothing. I just think that if the SoCon wants to be thought of as the " SEC of FCS" as it was once described, we need our best teams playing good teams OOC so we have the best chance at some quality wins for the conference.

[Reign of Terrier]

I was not including ranked SoCon teams - the rest of the FCS doesn't care if we beat up on each other. I think Wofford also beat The Citadel in the playoffs one year. We need quality wins outside of the conference.

Wofford has clearly been the best SoCon team the past two years and Furman has quickly risen (back) the top tier of the conference. Wofford is known for cyclical performance and we will see if that continues with Conklin or whether that was an Ayers thing. And don't take that as a knock on Ayers, I thought he was the best coach in the SoCon and did the most with the least. There haven't been many years that I felt like Wofford had the most athletic players in the conference, even when they have been the best team in the conference.

Chattanooga had a few years as the creme of the SoCon, and then Arth drove the the ship over the cliff. Hopefully we'll get back on track this year, and we have the schedule to go all or nothing. I just think that if the SoCon wants to be thought of as the " SEC of FCS" as it was once described, we need our best teams playing good teams OOC so we have the best chance at some quality wins for the conference.Wofford's the most consistent team in the Socon in conference competition. In the FCS, we're in the top 12/15ish in terms of playoff wins among current participants in the playoffs since we joined. We're doing just fine. The rest of the conference needs to step up in the playoffs and OOC. If you can't win the conference, find a good OOC win. Wofford doesn't need to.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Mocs123]

I don't disagree that Wofford is doing just fine. It's pretty amazing for such a small school with excellent academics. I really thought that with Ayers gone, Wofford would take a step back, but in fact seem to be doing the opposite.

As for the OOC games, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

That being said a schedule like Chattanooga has in 2019 can make you or break you. In the unlikely event that we were to beat EIU, JSU, and JMU, we would undoubtedly be in the top 5 in the country and short of collapsing in the SoCon, would be in great shape for a great playoff spot. Of course if you lose to JSU and JMU, we'd have to win 6-7 games in the SoCon, which isn't easy to do. What I will say, and surly you can agree on this, is that we need SoCon teams playing good teams and winning in the OOC, and SoCon teams that go to the playoffs winning a game or two to increase the prestige of the conference. Otherwise you might as well be in the Big South or OVC, where you have one dominant team, and only get one team in the playoffs ever year. That might be fine for the dominant team, but as history shows, Wofford isn't going to win the conference every year, the conference has too much parity.

[JSUSoutherner]

I don't disagree that Wofford is doing just fine. It's pretty amazing for such a small school with excellent academics. I really thought that with Ayers gone, Wofford would take a step back, but in fact seem to be doing the opposite.

As for the OOC games, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

That being said a schedule like Chattanooga has in 2019 can make you or break you. In the unlikely event that we were to beat EIU, JSU, and JMU, we would undoubtedly be in the top 5 in the country and short of collapsing in the SoCon, would be in great shape for a great playoff spot. Of course if you lose to JSU and JMU, we'd have to win 6-7 games in the SoCon, which isn't easy to do. What I will say, and surly you can agree on this, is that we need SoCon teams playing good teams and winning in the OOC, and SoCon teams that go to the playoffs winning a game or two to increase the prestige of the conference. Otherwise you might as well be in the Big South or OVC, where you have one dominant team, and only get one team in the playoffs ever year. That might be fine for the dominant team, but as history shows, Wofford isn't going to win the conference every year, the conference has too much parity.

If you go clean through JSU and JMU you may find yourself pushing for the 1 spot. Especially if we beat EWU the week after.

But I put the likelihood of that at 'ain't happening'

[PaladinFan]

I don't disagree that Wofford is doing just fine. It's pretty amazing for such a small school with excellent academics. I really thought that with Ayers gone, Wofford would take a step back, but in fact seem to be doing the opposite.

As for the OOC games, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

That being said a schedule like Chattanooga has in 2019 can make you or break you. In the unlikely event that we were to beat EIU, JSU, and JMU, we would undoubtedly be in the top 5 in the country and short of collapsing in the SoCon, would be in great shape for a great playoff spot. Of course if you lose to JSU and JMU, we'd have to win 6-7 games in the SoCon, which isn't easy to do. What I will say, and surly you can agree on this, is that we need SoCon teams playing good teams and winning in the OOC, and SoCon teams that go to the playoffs winning a game or two to increase the prestige of the conference. Otherwise you might as well be in the Big South or OVC, where you have one dominant team, and only get one team in the playoffs ever year. That might be fine for the dominant team, but as history shows, Wofford isn't going to win the conference every year, the conference has too much parity.

I'm not quite yet ready to commit to the status quo under Conklin. Just a Furman example.

Bobby Lamb inherited a Furman team in 2002 that was coming off a national title appearance. That 2002 team returned their QB, most of their offensive weapons (except Louis Ivory) and most of the defense.

Furman notched an 8 win season and was bounced by Villanova in the first round. They turned around in 2003 and had a truly bizarre season - the Paladin defense gave up 14.1 ppg and the team went 6-5 (hard to believe even 16 years later).

In 2004 Ingle Martin arrived. In 2004 and 2005 Furman was an elite team, but still bolstered by a large number of Bobby Johnson players. A bunch of key contributors to the 2001 national finalist team (Ced Ritter, Mike Killian, Ike West, Brian Bratton, etc.) were stars on the 2004 team. All of those guys were Johnson recruits.

After Martin graduate and Johnson's players left, Furman got mediocre in a hurry. In 2006, 8-4 (1st round playoff exit - notably also, this was Clay Hendrix's last year on the Furman staff). In 2007, 6-5. In 2008, 7-5. In 2009, 6-5. In 2010, 5-6.

So, why do I say that? I say that because when you take over a very good football team with a lot of returning stars, I am very much in a "wait and see" mode with a new coach. Once the legendary coach left, the coaching staff moved on, and the players graduated, things can go south quickly.

Maybe Conklin is the greatest coach in SoCon history. As of right now, all he's really done is meet expectations with the veteran talented-ladened team he inherited. The real test will be to watch a few years and see if Wofford, once Ayers' players move on, can keep it up in recruiting and put the same product on the field. Maybe so. Maybe not.

[Reign of Terrier]

The way I see it, recruiting is overrated at this level. Obviously good teams probably get better players but there's numerous examples of coaches coming in and putting a team on the map in less than 3 years or so at this level. Kennesaw State and Charleston Southern are good examples, but Austin Peay is a good example as well. Chattanooga under Huesman was another good one, even if it took a little longer. Heck, Mike Houston won a socon title and a national title with players he didn't recruit.

What's more, there's lot of examples of perennial FCS powers changing guard and having immediate and lasting success. K.C. Keeler at Delaware is the example. He was eventually fired but he won a national title with someone else's players, made another two on his own accord and was fired much too quickly after his second losing season.

Furman seems more of an outlier. Their problems coincided with Wofford being good. Even then, Furman only had one losing season under Lamb. Of anything there was something to what he was doing otherwise he wouldn't have added 4 wins to his total between 2003 and 2004. I don't see how you can't attribute 2004/2005 to his own coaching.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

I'm not quite yet ready to commit to the status quo under Conklin. Just a Furman example.

Bobby Lamb inherited a Furman team in 2002 that was coming off a national title appearance. That 2002 team returned their QB, most of their offensive weapons (except Louis Ivory) and most of the defense.

Furman notched an 8 win season and was bounced by Villanova in the first round. They turned around in 2003 and had a truly bizarre season - the Paladin defense gave up 14.1 ppg and the team went 6-5 (hard to believe even 16 years later).

In 2004 Ingle Martin arrived. In 2004 and 2005 Furman was an elite team, but still bolstered by a large number of Bobby Johnson players. A bunch of key contributors to the 2001 national finalist team (Ced Ritter, Mike Killian, Ike West, Brian Bratton, etc.) were stars on the 2004 team. All of those guys were Johnson recruits.

After Martin graduate and Johnson's players left, Furman got mediocre in a hurry. In 2006, 8-4 (1st round playoff exit - notably also, this was Clay Hendrix's last year on the Furman staff). In 2007, 6-5. In 2008, 7-5. In 2009, 6-5. In 2010, 5-6.

So, why do I say that? I say that because when you take over a very good football team with a lot of returning stars, I am very much in a "wait and see" mode with a new coach. Once the legendary coach left, the coaching staff moved on, and the players graduated, things can go south quickly.

Maybe Conklin is the greatest coach in SoCon history. As of right now, all he's really done is meet expectations with the veteran talented-ladened team he inherited. The real test will be to watch a few years and see if Wofford, once Ayers' players move on, can keep it up in recruiting and put the same product on the field. Maybe so. Maybe not.This is 1 person’s narrative, told from that person’s perspective, around almost a decade of Furman Football. There are other versions of this story.

I am reminded of the parable of the blind men & the elephant.

https://equilibregaia.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/conte-sufc3ad0001-copiaeng.jpg?w=1075

[PaladinFan]

The way I see it, recruiting is overrated at this level. Obviously good teams probably get better players but there's numerous examples of coaches coming in and putting a team on the map in less than 3 years or so at this level. Kennesaw State and Charleston Southern are good examples, but Austin Peay is a good example as well. Chattanooga under Huesman was another good one, even if it took a little longer. Heck, Mike Houston won a socon title and a national title with players he didn't recruit.

What's more, there's lot of examples of perennial FCS powers changing guard and having immediate and lasting success. K.C. Keeler at Delaware is the example. He was eventually fired but he won a national title with someone else's players, made another two on his own accord and was fired much too quickly after his second losing season.

Furman seems more of an outlier. Their problems coincided with Wofford being good. Even then, Furman only had one losing season under Lamb. Of anything there was something to what he was doing otherwise he wouldn't have added 4 wins to his total between 2003 and 2004. I don't see how you can't attribute 2004/2005 to his own coaching.

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Absolutely. Think coaching matters a great deal more at the FCS level, largely because you don't have access to the best players, or, rather, you have access to mostly the same players everyone else does.

[Reign of Terrier]

I agree that things weren't great when BL left Furman and for whatever reason "not having it all together" seems to be a common denominator with his time at Mercer.

However, the mere fact that he went from 8 wins in his first year to 6 in his second, back up to 10 in his third suggests that it's a little more complicated than "he had Bobby Johnson's players."

The explanation has to be more complicated than that, unless Bobby Johnson won 12 games and made it to the national title with a bunch of freshmen, I really don't buy that explanation.

After all, Bobby Lamb made the playoffs just as much as Bobby Johnson (4 times). Furman fans may not love to hear it, but things haven't been too shiney for them since they won the national title in 1988. 10 of the Dins' 19 playoff wins came between 1982 and 1990. They've won 9 playoff games in 28 years. They've had 10 playoff appearances since 1990. To put things in perspective, Wofford has 9 since 2003. Obviously I'm going to use Wofford as the baseline, and the implication here is not that Furman is bad, but their program has always played in fits and starts. Unlike other ancient FCS powers, Furman hasn't evaporated (EKU) and they haven't moved on to FBS like Georgia Southern. But they haven't been like UNI, which has been a playoff stalwart since the mid 1980s, but has only gone one stretch of missing the playoff for four years, while only missing the playoffs once every couple of years.

All that is to say, Furman is more of an exception than a rule. Could Wofford fade under Conklin? Maybe. But that's a question for, like, 2021 or 2022. We'll probably take a step back next year with all of the seniors graduating on the 2 deep, but it's impossible to forecast too far in the future.

Either way in 2019 Wofford is in good shape.

[PaladinFan]

I agree that things weren't great when BL left Furman and for whatever reason "not having it all together" seems to be a common denominator with his time at Mercer.

However, the mere fact that he went from 8 wins in his first year to 6 in his second, back up to 10 in his third suggests that it's a little more complicated than "he had Bobby Johnson's players."

The explanation has to be more complicated than that, unless Bobby Johnson won 12 games and made it to the national title with a bunch of freshmen, I really don't buy that explanation.

After all, Bobby Lamb made the playoffs just as much as Bobby Johnson (4 times). Furman fans may not love to hear it, but things haven't been too shiney for them since they won the national title in 1988. 10 of the Dins' 19 playoff wins came between 1982 and 1990. They've won 9 playoff games in 28 years. They've had 10 playoff appearances since 1990. To put things in perspective, Wofford has 9 since 2003. Obviously I'm going to use Wofford as the baseline, and the implication here is not that Furman is bad, but their program has always played in fits and starts. Unlike other ancient FCS powers, Furman hasn't evaporated (EKU) and they haven't moved on to FBS like Georgia Southern. But they haven't been like UNI, which has been a playoff stalwart since the mid 1980s, but has only gone one stretch of missing the playoff for four years, while only missing the playoffs once every couple of years.

All that is to say, Furman is more of an exception than a rule. Could Wofford fade under Conklin? Maybe. But that's a question for, like, 2021 or 2022. We'll probably take a step back next year with all of the seniors graduating on the 2 deep, but it's impossible to forecast too far in the future.

Either way in 2019 Wofford is in good shape.

Bear is correct. I do not think there is a one-size fits all answer to the Bobby Lamb question and my observations are just my observations. Some of it was probably on the field stuff and recruiting, but Furman in those days was (to my eyes) trying to proceed as if the name "Furman" was just going to win championships for them. Facilities lagged, funding lagged, and the program just fell behind while other similar-type schools (Wofford, Elon, Samford to name a few, caught up).

[Milktruck74]

Absolutely. Think coaching matters a great deal more at the FCS level, largely because you don't have access to the best players, or, rather, you have access to mostly the same players everyone else does.

I couldn't agree more. The reality is Alabama has superior talent to Vanderbilt and Bama is going to just out talent Vandy regardless of coaching. Sure a great game plan can keep it close(er), but Bama wins because of the talent gap. In the FCS level, most teams (take out a few of the bottom dwellers) are closely matched talent wise. Sure there will always be outstanding players at a position (Breitenstien, A. Edwards, A. Hope, T Adams, Huesman), but really the overall talent at the FCS level is pretty close. The coaches that know how to utilize talent are the teams that are successful long term....Look at NDSU, they won a ton with corn fed boys from the plains...they didn't start getting the 3 and 4 star prospects until the last 2 or 3 years. I also think it is vital to have a coaching staff that is flexible. Just because your #1 QB is a pro set guy doesnt mean the back up is...and at our level you have to be able to pivot and sometimes that means a complete change of direction based on the personel available and getting the best 11 on the field.

[PaladinFan]

I couldn't agree more. The reality is Alabama has superior talent to Vanderbilt and Bama is going to just out talent Vandy regardless of coaching. Sure a great game plan can keep it close(er), but Bama wins because of the talent gap. In the FCS level, most teams (take out a few of the bottom dwellers) are closely matched talent wise. Sure there will always be outstanding players at a position (Breitenstien, A. Edwards, A. Hope, T Adams, Huesman), but really the overall talent at the FCS level is pretty close. The coaches that know how to utilize talent are the teams that are successful long term....Look at NDSU, they won a ton with corn fed boys from the plains...they didn't start getting the 3 and 4 star prospects until the last 2 or 3 years. I also think it is vital to have a coaching staff that is flexible. Just because your #1 QB is a pro set guy doesnt mean the back up is...and at our level you have to be able to pivot and sometimes that means a complete change of direction based on the personel available and getting the best 11 on the field.

In my opinion, FCS recruiting is mostly about (1) not completely missing on guys, especially linemen, and (2) finding market inefficiencies.

With fewer scholarships, FCS teams really cannot afford to spend scholarship dollars on guys that are just never going to be contributors. In a sense, a scholarship spot on an FCS team is more valuable and teams can't waste them. At FBS schools, if a guy busts, ok, you've got 10 more to take his place.

It is also important to find market inefficiencies. Because FCS teams cannot compete with bigger FBS programs for talent acquisition, they have to find diamonds in the rough - guys that have some sort of perceived "defect." This is where FCS coaches make their money.

Take a guy like Adrian Hope. Hope is an incredibly gifted pass rusher from a large Florida high school (led the state in sacks as a senior, I think). The dude is a terror and caused problems for every offense he faced (including Clemson's).

Why isn't a guy a guy that notched 56 sacks in Florida 6A football that has the grades for Furman on every SEC team's radar? Probably because he's 6'1 218. He's too small to play DE/OLB in the SEC and too slow to play defensive back.

Furman finds a kid that bigger programs don't want because of some perceived flaw and he proceeds to do for Furman just what he's done his entire career - wreck offensive backfields.

A lot of the truly great SoCon players fit this mold - Jayson Foster (too small), Armanti Edwards (wrong position), Jerome Felton (no one wants fullbacks), etc.

[FUBeAR]

Lotta truth & wisdom in these recent posts. Good job my SoCon peeps!!

Learned this phrase, recently, in a text convo with an outstanding FCS Coach

”Recruit, develop, and retain”

Many FBS Coaches can do the 1st one (only) well & win conference championships & win major bowl games. If FBS Coaches also do either of the 2nd two well (or all 3, of course), they can win FBS National Championships.

If an FCS Coach doesn’t do all 3 very well, that Coach will (eventually) be looking for a new job.

[gofurman]

I agree that things weren't great when BL left Furman and for whatever reason "not having it all together" seems to be a common denominator with his time at Mercer.

However, the mere fact that he went from 8 wins in his first year to 6 in his second, back up to 10 in his third suggests that it's a little more complicated than "he had Bobby Johnson's players."

The explanation has to be more complicated than that, unless Bobby Johnson won 12 games and made it to the national title with a bunch of freshmen, I really don't buy that explanation.

After all, Bobby Lamb made the playoffs just as much as Bobby Johnson (4 times). Furman fans may not love to hear it, but things haven't been too shiney for them since they won the national title in 1988. 10 of the Dins' 19 playoff wins came between 1982 and 1990. They've won 9 playoff games in 28 years. They've had 10 playoff appearances since 1990. To put things in perspective, Wofford has 9 since 2003. Obviously I'm going to use Wofford as the baseline, and the implication here is not that Furman is bad, but their program has always played in fits and starts. Unlike other ancient FCS powers, Furman hasn't evaporated (EKU) and they haven't moved on to FBS like Georgia Southern. But they haven't been like UNI, which has been a playoff stalwart since the mid 1980s, but has only gone one stretch of missing the playoff for four years, while only missing the playoffs once every couple of years.

All that is to say, Furman is more of an exception than a rule.



Could Wofford fade under Conklin? Maybe. But that's a question for, like, 2021 or 2022. We'll probably take a step back next year with all of the seniors graduating on the 2 deep, but it's impossible to forecast too far in the future.

Either way in 2019 Wofford is in good shape.

Different stories of Lamb - I do think he was hamstrung by lack of support xconfusedx .

* Focused on the here and NOW - I too think Wofford is in great shape THIS year. Ayers players and THIRTEEN SENIOR STARTERS likely... wow. scary! But that means 9 returning starters next year in '20. so 2020 and really 2021 will be very telling for Conklin - I hear he wants to pass more. How will that work at Wofford? How will his recruiting / player development be?? If I was a Wofford fan I would be excited for this year but a little wary of 2020 / 2021

For Furman it appears we have a strong one in Coach Hendrix. Conklin may be great but I think we need at least two or three more years to say that. He may be the best thing ever. Just saying we need a few years. To use the Furman example it took us until after Ingle Martin - 5 years to start to see that we were in a decline with Bobby Lamb. He didn't get us the OL and DL we needed... again, not saying that's all BL fault. He didn't have Hendrix to coach up the OL etc..

[SU DOG]

Samford is already practicing for the early game. It appears that, unless something happens, Liam Welch will be the starting QB. Inexperienced yes, but a terrific arm and he knows the system. IMO, the defense will be really good. A late xfer that came in at safety should help at a position that we were decimated at last year. He is former 3*** Lamar Anderson from Ball State. Replacing Ahmad Gooden might be impossible, but Samford has the DEs to make this position very strong. The O-Line returns 4 of 5 starters, and the projected starters average 6-5, 309 pounds. We may actually see much more of a running game featuring All-SoCon Fr. Demarcus Ware. Maybe that will give us more of a balanced attack. Once again, I sound the broken record that Samford has a LOT of talent. The question is will this provide the W's that are needed to be near the top of the league?

[FUBeAR]

The O-Line returns 4 of 5 starters, and the projected starters average 6-5, 309 pounds.
What was Nixon’s off-season height increase this year? Would imagine he has to be 6-8 or 6-9 by now!

[PaladinFan]

Samford is already practicing for the early game. It appears that, unless something happens, Liam Welch will be the starting QB. Inexperienced yes, but a terrific arm and he knows the system. IMO, the defense will be really good. A late xfer that came in at safety should help at a position that we were decimated at last year. He is former 3*** Lamar Anderson from Ball State. Replacing Ahmad Gooden might be impossible, but Samford has the DEs to make this position very strong. The O-Line returns 4 of 5 starters, and the projected starters average 6-5, 309 pounds. We may actually see much more of a running game featuring All-SoCon Fr. Demarcus Ware. Maybe that will give us more of a balanced attack. Once again, I sound the broken record that Samford has a LOT of talent. The question is will this provide the W's that are needed to be near the top of the league?

I've been surprised at how muted the FCS landscape has been towards Samford. I think they will be a good team, but I just can't see how they are going to easily replace the guys they lost. I make this argument repeatedly (not just as applied to Samford) - it is just really hard to replace production from those types of players.

Defensively, they'll miss Gooden. I'm sure they'll have quality defenders, but that Citadel game still sticks in my mind. Gooden didn't play, and a so-so Citadel offense ran through that defense like crap through a goose.

Offensively, it seems we hear every season about a renewed commitment to the running game. Talent aside, it is just really hard to run the ball inside the tackles out of 4 and 5 wide sets with an offensive line not built for run-blocking. That's not to say that those guys aren't quality players - they are - its just that isn't what the offense is built to do.

No one has ever doubted Samford's talent. They consistently have arguably the best overall talent in the league. The question is, as always, can they put it all together consistently and take that next step?

[Reign of Terrier]

#GetHatched

That's it, that's my comment.

[SU DOG]

What was Nixon’s off-season height increase this year? Would imagine he has to be 6-8 or 6-9 by now!

Nope, his height remained the same. But I am concerned about an interior defensive lineman who went from 273 this spring to an even 220 in our new roster. LOL! I Seriously hope that is a mistake.

[SU DOG]

I've been surprised at how muted the FCS landscape has been towards Samford. I think they will be a good team, but I just can't see how they are going to easily replace the guys they lost. I make this argument repeatedly (not just as applied to Samford) - it is just really hard to replace production from those types of players.

Defensively, they'll miss Gooden. I'm sure they'll have quality defenders, but that Citadel game still sticks in my mind. Gooden didn't play, and a so-so Citadel offense ran through that defense like crap through a goose.

Offensively, it seems we hear every season about a renewed commitment to the running game. Talent aside, it is just really hard to run the ball inside the tackles out of 4 and 5 wide sets with an offensive line not built for run-blocking. That's not to say that those guys aren't quality players - they are - its just that isn't what the offense is built to do.

No one has ever doubted Samford's talent. They consistently have arguably the best overall talent in the league. The question is, as always, can they put it all together consistently and take that next step?

DITTO PF! This is about as good of a Samford summary as there could possibly be.

[PaladinNation]

Concerning the complex Bobby Lamb era - especially the later years. Let's be honest he got minimal support while the school was still under Shi's leadership. BL had some recruiting/admissions challenges, zero dollars were put into facilitates - for a fact one of the brick walls crumbled and all they did was patch it up = thank goodness the Duncan Chapel FD condemned the press box. Concerning recruiting - Furman started struggling getting offensive lineman consistently, on the defensive side Furman was undersized and switched a lot of players positions.

Fast forward — it's pretty remarkable what CCH has done - he has quickly changed the overall makeup of the Furman football team - coming into his third year this team predominately is his team. I think recruiting has played in critical role in Furman's quick turnaround. Furman has started picking up players that appeared to chose Furman over primarily FBS schools. But, to Bear's point -- recruit, develop, and retain… Hope (little attention), McCoy (little attention), Wynn (FU was his only offer). For Furman to be successful they have to find some diamonds to polish.

[PaladinFan]

DITTO PF! This is about as good of a Samford summary as there could possibly be.

Looking at conference only stats, Samford was a bit of an enigma last year.

The Bulldogs had the league's best scoring offense by a significant margin (40.1 ppg). They had an averagesish scoring defense (27.6 ppg). The roughly +13 differential was greater than Furman (+9), Wofford (+10), and ETSU (+1).

What you notice is the key 30 point threshold. While it makes sense that the more points you score, the higher your likelihood of winning, that is particularly true for an up and back offense like Samford's. In every Samford loss last season, they scored less than 30. In every win, more than 30.

[FUBeAR]

Concerning the complex Bobby Lamb era - especially the later years. Let's be honest he got minimal support while the school was still under Shi's leadership. BL had some recruiting/admissions challenges, zero dollars were put into facilitates - for a fact one of the brick walls crumbled and all they did was patch it up = thank goodness the Duncan Chapel FD condemned the press box. Concerning recruiting - Furman started struggling getting offensive lineman consistently, on the defensive side Furman was undersized and switched a lot of players positions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QblkQ-J6zio

...well...some of the rest of it anyway.

[FUBeAR]

DITTO PF! This is about as good of a Samford summary as there could possibly be.A little surprised you completely endorse this recounting. While, most of it is very accurate, IMO, I think citing ONLY Gooden’s absence from the D by the time the bullpups faced the bellhops in chucktown vastly understates Samford’s injury situation on D that day.

Unless I’m mistaken, Samford had about 5 starters out on D that day; 1 or 2 on each of the 3 ‘levels’ of the D, and, in a couple of those slots, were down to their 3rd/4th Team guys. We all well know the challenges of depth at the FCS level. We all know the lack of depth is why we consistently see FCS Teams hang close with FBS Teams in the 1st half and end up losing by 4 scores. Samford won the 1st half of that game 24-7 & Samford lost the 2nd half of that game 35-3. With that many injuries on D, playing against a ball-control O, on a relatively warm afternoon (mid 70’s) in November, the odds were certainly tilted in the bellhops’ general direction. Gooden not playing was clearly a significant part of the story, but the full story, IMO, for the cause of of Samford’s 2nd half collapse on D in Charleston was that age-old bugaboo affecting all FCS Teams (not named NDSU, apparently) - lack of depth.

[SU DOG]

FUB, you are correct. I have pointed to the D injury problem last year, and have been accused of just making excuses. I accepted Gooden's demise and hesitated to point out other players - Thank You for calling me out. Still, as you say, the vast majority of the post was very accurate.

[FUBeAR]

FUB, you are correct. I have pointed to the D injury problem last year, and have been accused of just making excuses. I accepted Gooden's demise and hesitated to point out other players - Thank You for calling me out. Still, as you say, the vast majority of the post was very accurate.
Yeah - the whole ‘excuse’ thing is just childish braying when critiquing others’ analyses of outcomes. It’s also an ‘excuse’ that Samford put up 9,999,999 yards passing in the past 4 years because (excuse coming) Hodges & McKnight were really talented & Samford chose to throw the ball 99.99% of the time. Factual analysis is not excuse-making, it’s event & data-driven explanations of outcomes.

Now, there may be more to the analysis of that game...maybe, the bellhops slipped roofies into the bullpups water buckets at halftime. Maybe CIT also had 5 starters out on O. Maybe a million different things impacted that outcome, but I KNOW after watching I-AA & FCS Football for over 35 years, all other things being equal, any FCS Team with 1/2 their Starting D sidelined has problems a-plenty...especially in the 2nd half.

[FUBeAR]

I’ll be a little snarky here, but this is actually a quite well-written & interesting article from The Macon Telegraph (finally): https://www.macon.com/sports/college/mercer-university/article233254476.html

...some highlights...

5 Mercer Bears freshmen that could turn into football superstars

* DE Richard Benton (Atlanta, Georgia) - “This is the big fish that Mercer landed in their recruiting class. He was ranked as the top recruit in the entire Southern Conference and a top 10 recruit overall, according to Hero Sports FCS (https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-recruiting-top-300-fcs-signees-rankings-ajaj)...The NFL could be within Benton’s grasp...He has the motor and ability to stand out at the FCS level. He had over 15 offers to go play at the FBS level but chose Mercer instead.”

* QB Dylan Fromm (Warner Robins, Georgia) - “His brother Jake is the starting quarterback at the University of Georgia and Tyler, Dylan’s twin, is heading to Auburn to play tight end. Mercer didn’t land a consolation prize in Dylan by any means — this kid is the real deal. He has the heart of a winner and the intangibles to make plays when all hope is lost. He was named Mr. Georgia by the Atlanta Touchdown Club for the most outstanding senior in the state.”

* RB Brandon Marshall (Jacksonville, Florida) - “He has the ability to be an elite back at the FCS level if he develops his vision as a ball carrier. He was a three-star recruit, according to 247 Sports, and had offers from some of the top FCS teams in the country like North Dakota State...”

* CB Joel Girtman (College Park, Georgia) - Girtman is a true ball-hawking corner who knows exactly where he needs to be in order to make a big play for his defense. He is an impact defender out of Westlake High School where they won the region title during all four of Girtman’s years there. He came out of high school as a two-star recruit...”

* TE Pedro Rodriguez (Lake Mary, Florida) - “He is a solid pass catcher but his ability after the catch is what makes him a special talent. While he has the ability to create separation, he is exceptional at making catches in traffic...Mercer has nicknamed itself “Tight End U” for their ability to recruit high-quality tight end prospects and Rodriguez looks like another hit for the Bears.“

[SU DOG]

I have said on here before that the SoCon is recruiting better and better, IMO. Not all lists agree with this, but I think the proof will be evident in the near future. The league is simply getting better athletes than a short time ago. and this is not just one or two teams anymore.

[PaladinFan]

I’ll be a little snarky here, but this is actually a quite well-written & interesting article from The Macon Telegraph (finally): https://www.macon.com/sports/college/mercer-university/article233254476.html

...some highlights...

5 Mercer Bears freshmen that could turn into football superstars

* DE Richard Benton (Atlanta, Georgia) - “This is the big fish that Mercer landed in their recruiting class. He was ranked as the top recruit in the entire Southern Conference and a top 10 recruit overall, according to Hero Sports FCS (https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2019-recruiting-top-300-fcs-signees-rankings-ajaj)...The NFL could be within Benton’s grasp...He has the motor and ability to stand out at the FCS level. He had over 15 offers to go play at the FBS level but chose Mercer instead.”

*QB Dylan Fromm (Warner Robins, Georgia) - “His brother Jake is the starting quarterback at the University of Georgia and Tyler, Dylan’s twin, is heading to Auburn to play tight end. Mercer didn’t land a consolation prize in Dylan by any means — this kid is the real deal. He has the heart of a winner and the intangibles to make plays when all hope is lost. He was named Mr. Georgia by the Atlanta Touchdown Club for the most outstanding senior in the state.”

*RB Brandon Marshall (Jacksonville, Florida) - “He has the ability to be an elite back at the FCS level if he develops his vision as a ball carrier. He was a three-star recruit, according to 247 Sports, and had offers from some of the top FCS teams in the country like North Dakota State...”

*CB Joel Girtman (College Park, Georgia) - Girtman is a true ball-hawking corner who knows exactly where he needs to be in order to make a big play for his defense. He is an impact defender out of Westlake High School where they won the region title during all four of Girtman’s years there. He came out of high school as a two-star recruit...”

* TE Pedro Rodriguez (Lake Mary, Florida) - “He is a solid pass catcher but his ability after the catch is what makes him a special talent. While he has the ability to create separation, he is exceptional at making catches in traffic...Mercer has nicknamed itself “Tight End U” for their ability to recruit high-quality tight end prospects and Rodriguez looks like another hit for the Bears.“


A good write up. Appears to have been written by a recent Mercer grad, so the Telegraph has a writer invested in the program.

Relatedly, these "fan life" reporters are McClatchy's response to cost-cutting ventures. They have gutted local sports coverage (including Daniel Shirley, the Telegraphs long time sports writer) along with arts/entertainment coverage. In their stead, they've hired younger "fan life" reporters that are supposed to do the work of both of those sections of the newspaper at a fraction of the cost.

Nothing against Mr. Baxley, who I am sure is a fine journalist. Just a sad reality of local news coverage - cut writers, less coverage, smaller papers, more digital advertising.

[gofurman]

Yeah - the whole ‘excuse’ thing is just childish braying when critiquing others’ analyses of outcomes. It’s also an ‘excuse’ that Samford put up 9,999,999 yards passing in the past 4 years because (excuse coming) Hodges & McKnight were really talented & Samford chose to throw the ball 99.99% of the time. Factual analysis is not excuse-making, it’s event & data-driven explanations of outcomes.

Now, there may be more to the analysis of that game...maybe, the bellhops slipped roofies into the bullpups water buckets at halftime. Maybe CIT also had 5 starters out on O. Maybe a million different things impacted that outcome, but I KNOW after watching I-AA & FCS Football for over 35 years, all other things being equal, any FCS Team with 1/2 their Starting D sidelined has problems a-plenty...especially in the 2nd half.

Yep - Furman had a year we were on, what, our 4th QB ?- basically a tight end playing QB? Wofford had a year they lost about 10 starters.. Samford lost about 4/5 guys - notably Gooden but some others - prior to playing Citadel last year. Those teams all struggled. Coincidence? I think not.

I am known on the UFFP as having a 'thing' for injuries - now you see why. It's a HUUUUGE determining factor in football, esp in FCS ! Almost no team can survive the loss of 4 or 5 starters all over the course of 2 or so weeks. Everyone has a few injuries. But to whom and how many can play a huge role.

A mature person will note the other team's injuries when their own team wins as in "Furman beat X today but I am aware you were missing Y and Z who are key to your team; hopefully next year we meet with both teams at full strength ! ". Sadly, not many people are mature enough to do that. But AGS is pretty good. Thankfully, some people on this board are good winners

[Reign of Terrier]

Yep - Furman had a year we were on, what, our 4th QB ?- basically a tight end playing QB? Wofford had a year they lost about 10 starters.. Samford lost about 4/5 guys - notably Gooden but some others - prior to playing Citadel last year. Those teams all struggled. Coincidence? I think not.

I am known on the UFFP as having a 'thing' for injuries - now you see why. It's a HUUUUGE determining factor in football, esp in FCS ! Almost no team can survive the loss of 4 or 5 starters all over the course of 2 or so weeks. Everyone has a few injuries. But to whom and how many can play a huge role.

A mature person will note the other team's injuries when their own team wins as in "Furman beat X today but I am aware you were missing Y and Z who are key to your team; hopefully next year we meet with both teams at full strength ! ". Sadly, not many people are mature enough to do that. But AGS is pretty good. Thankfully, some people on this board are good winners

In 2009, Wofford had something like 7-12 players go out with a knee injury. On the top of my head (and not a comprehensive list):

Eric Breitenstein, Derek Boyce, Marshall (can't remember his first name), 1-2 safeties, All conference linebacker Mike Niam. This, on top of the fact that we lost our leading receiver, running back, quarterback, and a couple OL from the best offense Wofford's ever fielded, it was no wonder we finished 3-9. That year was sandwiched between 4 years where we won an average of 9 games.

I look at replacing starters like replacing parts in a machine. To some extent, your backups are at a certain level (especially if you're a good team), but you can't take too many parts out of the system and expect the same results. If you have a really deep team, it's because you have enough individual parts that are relatively the same quality and can sustain such injuries.

[PaladinFan]

Good writeup on Furman: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/furman/2019/08/01/four-good-reasons-furman-paladins-football-expects-big-things-2019/1865223001/

This quote jumped off the page:


“I think we’re finally — 2½ years into our program — we kind of feel like we’re where we want to be,” Hendrix said. “We’ve recruited well. I think we know what we want to do. I think we knew what we wanted to do before, but we just couldn’t because of personnel. We were doing what we felt like we had to do to try to be successful.”

If anyone has listened to Hendrix the past few years, he almost always comments on how thin Furman was at certain positions and the need to continue to get bigger and stronger. He really hasn't said that much this preseason.

[The Cats]

I’ll be a little snarky here, but this is actually a quite well-written & interesting article from The Macon Telegraph (finally): https://www.macon.com/sports/college/mercer-university/article233254476.html

...some highlights...

5 Mercer Bears freshmen that could turn into football superstars

This is the local homer that picks Mercer to win the conference every year and then Mercer proceeds to finish 5-6.

[gofurman]

In 2009, Wofford had something like 7-12 players go out with a knee injury. On the top of my head (and not a comprehensive list):

Eric Breitenstein, Derek Boyce, Marshall (can't remember his first name), 1-2 safeties, All conference linebacker Mike Niam. This, on top of the fact that we lost our leading receiver, running back, quarterback, and a couple OL from the best offense Wofford's ever fielded, it was no wonder we finished 3-9. That year was sandwiched between 4 years where we won an average of 9 games.

I look at replacing starters like replacing parts in a machine. To some extent, your backups are at a certain level (especially if you're a good team), but you can't take too many parts out of the system and expect the same results. If you have a really deep team, it's because you have enough individual parts that are relatively the same quality and can sustain such injuries.

Yeah, that's the year. Thanks. I didn't take the time to look it up. I agree with FUBeAR - at least acknowledge the other team was missing a lot. At FCS you can't sustain too many injuries. It doesn't take a genius to see if Wofford was winning 8/9 games most years that there is some cause for the outlier of 3-9. It was injuries.

I like people that at least acknowledge that and don't call it an 'excuse. Agree with you and FUBeAR.

[FUBeAR]

This is the local homer that picks Mercer to win the conference every year and then Mercer proceeds to finish 5-6.
Same paper, new writer...if that’s what you meant..., but I don’t think they have ever picked Mercer to win the SoCon. BIG, sloppy-wet-kiss fans of Macon Native, Chris Hatcher...so they have usually selected Samford to DOMINATE the SoCon behind the Offensive GENIUS of CCH.

If you meant FUBeAR, my house is only 12 miles closer to 5 Star Stadium in Macon than it is to Whitmire Stadium in Cullowhee. #NotLocal

[FUBeAR]

Hmmmm....wonder if Mercer has an extra schollie laying around for a Star B1G WR?

https://twitter.com/13wmaznews/status/1157421838433230848?s=21

He’s been living in Macon since leaving UW in 2018.

[PaladinFan]

Hmmmm....wonder if Mercer has an extra schollie laying around for a Star B1G WR?

https://twitter.com/13wmaznews/status/1157421838433230848?s=21

He’s been living in Macon since leaving UW in 2018.

Seems like there would be a lot of vetting to do on that issue.

My recollection is he initially signed to play basketball at Furman before going to Wisconsin.

[PaladinNation]

Good writeup on Furman: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/furman/2019/08/01/four-good-reasons-furman-paladins-football-expects-big-things-2019/1865223001/

This quote jumped off the page:

If anyone has listened to Hendrix the past few years, he almost always comments on how thin Furman was at certain positions and the need to continue to get bigger and stronger. He really hasn't said that much this preseason.

Based on Hendrix's comments on his video interview with Dan Scott - some freshmen are showing the ability to play and as he said could help Furman win some games. Players mentioned:

Josh Agbenou 6-2 277 LB
Wayne Anderson 5-10 185 TB
several o-linemen; Johanning, Jumper, Dodd, Toomey

[gofurman]

Based on Hendrix's comments on his video interview with Dan Scott - some freshmen are showing the ability to play and as he said could help Furman win some games. Players mentioned:

Josh Agbenou 6-2 227 LB
Wayne Anderson 5-10 185 TB
several o-linemen; Johanning, Jumper, Dodd, Toomey

Link to video ?

[FUBeAR]

Seems like there would be a lot of vetting to do on that issue.

My recollection is he initially signed to play basketball at Furman before going to Wisconsin.
Vetting? - What? You want to poll the jury? They took 30 minutes to render a Not Guilty verdict on these BS charges.

“Committed” to play basketball at Furman...not “signed.”

[PaladinFan]

Vetting? - What? You want to poll the jury? They took 30 minutes to render a Not Guilty verdict on these BS charges.

“Committed” to play basketball at Furman...not “signed.”

I say "vetting" because there are two different issues - criminal and university investigation.

[FUBeAR]

I say "vetting" because there are two different issues - criminal and university investigation.
I understand the differing burdens of proof in university vs. criminal proceedings, but those also criminally charged in these situations are placed in an ultimate “Catch 22” as university procedures will invariably precede criminal procedures, and participation in the university proceedings by the individuals charged, potentially, could seriously compromise their criminal defense. So the university’s proceedings, essentially, become a “kangaroo court” resulting in certain ‘conviction’ and almost always expulsion, as occurred in this instance.

I suppose “vetting” could take the form of ‘requiring’ the criminally acquitted individual to then (successfully) appeal the university’s decision and achieve reinstatement. Personally, knowing the mechanics of this process and understanding the ‘believe all accusers’ environment we live in today, particularly on college campuses; if FUBeAR is making the call on this ‘replay under review,’ he would go with ‘believe all jury decisions’ and proceed accordingly.

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR is certainly not pointing any fingers, but he is just wonderin’ if & what bellhop fans might be wonderin’ if/when they read these excerpts from a recent article about SHSU Football...


Cultural changes give Kats optimism as bounce-back bid gets underway


”Keeler points to locker room issues as something that played a role in the Bearkats’ shortcomings last season. He doesn’t foresee the same problems with the current group.“It's going to be different because it's made up of a different collection of people,” Keeler said. “Their interaction with each other, their integrity, not being selfish, their leadership ... all those things intertwine. One guy can change a locker room, in a positive or negative way.”

Brock echoed his coach’s sentiments, referencing ‘a few bad eggs’ that have been replaced with quality locker room guys. “We got rid of a few bad eggs that were kind of cancers to the team...”

[PaladinFan]

I understand the differing burdens of proof in university vs. criminal proceedings, but those also criminally charged in these situations are placed in an ultimate “Catch 22” as university procedures will invariably precede criminal procedures, and participation in the university proceedings by the individuals charged, potentially, could seriously compromise their criminal defense. So the university’s proceedings, essentially, become a “kangaroo court” resulting in certain ‘conviction’ and almost always expulsion, as occurred in this instance.

I suppose “vetting” could take the form of ‘requiring’ the criminally acquitted individual to then (successfully) appeal the university’s decision and achieve reinstatement. Personally, knowing the mechanics of this process and understanding the ‘believe all accusers’ environment we live in today, particularly on college campuses; if FUBeAR is making the call on this ‘replay under review,’ he would go with ‘believe all jury decisions’ and proceed accordingly.

I do not know enough about it to determine whether the university proceeding equates to a "kangaroo court." However, it is fairly common for a parallel legal or administrative proceeding to reach a different result less than criminal culpability while examining the same facts.

[FUBeAR]

I do not know enough about it to determine whether the university proceeding equates to a "kangaroo court." However, it is fairly common for a parallel legal or administrative proceeding to reach a different result less than criminal culpability while examining the same facts.
How much do you have to know? The accused can offer no response / no defense to the administrative conduct charges because doing so might seriously jeopardize his/her defense against the criminal charges that have also been filed. So, it’s the accusers’ story/stories vs. nothing.

University: “What happened?”
Accuser: “He raped me.”
He:
University: “He is expelled.”

This happened to one of the sweetest/smartest HS kids I ever Coached while he was enrolled at an elite academic institution in the south. His ‘friend,’ who had been regularly providing ‘benefits’ to him, was about to flunk out; so she decided he was expendable. Accused him of rape just before finals. Charges filed. University expels him as he is unwilling to assert a defense with criminal charges pending & university allows her to ‘free’ drop all of her classes due to the ‘stress’ she had endured. She stays in school. Criminal charges later dropped because of no evidence. He later finishes his degree at much lower tier institution & is only allowed to take online courses.

[SCPALADIN]

FUBeAR is certainly not pointing any fingers, but he is just wonderin’ if & what bellhop fans might be wonderin’ if/when they read these excerpts from a recent article about SHSU Football...


Cultural changes give Kats optimism as bounce-back bid gets underway


”Keeler points to locker room issues as something that played a role in the Bearkats’ shortcomings last season. He doesn’t foresee the same problems with the current group.“It's going to be different because it's made up of a different collection of people,” Keeler said. “Their interaction with each other, their integrity, not being selfish, their leadership ... all those things intertwine. One guy can change a locker room, in a positive or negative way.”

Brock echoed his coach’s sentiments, referencing ‘a few bad eggs’ that have been replaced with quality locker room guys. “We got rid of a few bad eggs that were kind of cancers to the team...”


Subtle...xlolx
It should be interesting to see if Bulmer's attitude continues to be an issue now that he's in an offense that will distribute the ball much more than he's used to.

[Milktruck74]

How much do you have to know? The accused can offer no response / no defense to the administrative conduct charges because doing so might seriously jeopardize his/her defense against the criminal charges that have also been filed. So, it’s the accusers’ story/stories vs. nothing.

University: “What happened?”
Accuser: “He raped me.”
He:
University: “He is expelled.”

This happened to one of the sweetest/smartest HS kids I ever Coached while he was enrolled at an elite academic institution in the south. His ‘friend,’ who had been regularly providing ‘benefits’ to him, was about to flunk out; so she decided he was expendable. Accused him of rape just before finals. Charges filed. University expels him as he is unwilling to assert a defense with criminal charges pending & university allows her to ‘free’ drop all of her classes due to the ‘stress’ she had endured. She stays in school. Criminal charges later dropped because of no evidence. He later finishes his degree at much lower tier institution & is only allowed to take online courses.

I went to HS with a kid that was all-everything. He drove a bus route and the girl that was his last drop had some fun with him. She got scared and claimed rape, which she later recanted, but it was too late. He had offers from many sec and acc schools that were pulled. By the time she recanted the only school that he could go to was Elon (NAIA or D2 at the time, can’t remember). He ended up in their HOF and still holds rushing records. Nicest guy EVER. Made a mistake, but made the most of it. He played in Canada I believe for a short while, but returned to his hometown and worked with at risk kids. He actually Passed away a few weeks back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Subtle...xlolx
It should be interesting to see if Bulmer's attitude continues to be an issue now that he's in an offense that will distribute the ball much more than he's used to.

PLEASE NOTE: FUBeAR did not specifically mention any Player in his original post, nor did FUBeAR state that this article was referring to any specific Player, nor did FUBeAR offer commentary about any specific Player’s “attitude,” as SCPALADIN did.

FUBeAR’s comment, then & now, is related to the thought processes that might be occurring in the minds of bellhops fans if they read this article openly published by “The Huntsville Item” https://www.itemonline.com/sports/sam_houston_state_university_bearkats/cultural-changes-give-kats-optimism-as-bounce-back-bid-gets/article_aedb2de9-ed95-5087-a675-669398f6fd1e.html

...that is all

[SU DOG]

We are now at 100 pages and almost 1,000 posts on this thread. While the SoCon may not currently be the best FCS conference, does this thread prove that we are the most vocal? LOL!

[walliver]

We are now at 100 pages and almost 1,000 posts on this thread. While the SoCon may not currently be the best FCS conference, does this thread prove that we are the most vocal? LOL!

We also don't do the mushy "we love our conference mate" BS we see from other conference fans.

[PaladinFan]

Furman camp in full swing. Clay Hendrix in post-practice interviews appears pleased with the progress. Furman is a more veteran team than they've been the past two years, but still only 10 seniors.

A lot has been mentioned of how deep Furman's running back group is. Furman's offense will stay in a two-back set most of the time, often with a "running back" in the backfield and a "tailback" that can pretty much line up anywhere.

Going into the season I thought Furman probably had a strong backfield tandem of Devin Wynn and Corey Watkins, either of whom is among the SoCon's top backs. After a few days of practice, though, Furman may well go 4 or 5 deep in the backfield. Teams playing the Paladins are going to have to buckle up those chinstraps.

[SU DOG]

Furman camp in full swing. Clay Hendrix in post-practice interviews appears pleased with the progress. Furman is a more veteran team than they've been the past two years, but still only 10 seniors.

A lot has been mentioned of how deep Furman's running back group is. Furman's offense will stay in a two-back set most of the time, often with a "running back" in the backfield and a "tailback" that can pretty much line up anywhere.

Going into the season I thought Furman probably had a strong backfield tandem of Devin Wynn and Corey Watkins, either of whom is among the SoCon's top backs. After a few days of practice, though, Furman may well go 4 or 5 deep in the backfield. Teams playing the Paladins are going to have to buckle up those chinstraps.

Does that mean less option and more of a power running attack? I typed this question then took a look at your roster. Yes, Watkins and Wynn are 2 really good ones, BUT the other 3 TBs listed are all freshmen. The 5 RBs listed are 2 true Fr, 1 RSFr, 1 RS Soph who has yet to see action, and xfer Maples who totaled 64 yds last year. These guys are supposed to be better than Dirks, Luke, Sanders, and Morehead? I don't mean to be derogatory here or talking smack, as I think Furman will be a real force in the SoCon this season. I took a quick look at the roster and these questions popped up. Please correct me if I made mistakes in what I stated. I may have missed something, but I sincerely would like for you to explain your statement of optimism.

[PaladinFan]

Does that mean less option and more of a power running attack? I typed this question then took a look at your roster. Yes, Watkins and Wynn are 2 really good ones, BUT the other 3 TBs listed are all freshmen. The 5 RBs listed are 2 true Fr, 1 RSFr, 1 RS Soph who has yet to see action, and xfer Maples who totaled 64 yds last year. These guys are supposed to be better than Dirks, Luke, Sanders, and Morehead? I don't mean to be derogatory here or talking smack, as I think Furman will be a real force in the SoCon this season. I took a quick look at the roster and these questions popped up. Please correct me if I made mistakes in what I stated. I may have missed something, but I sincerely would like for you to explain your statement of optimism.

Yes. Here's why:

Hendrix inherited a roster with very little depth in the backfield. Wilcox (a former safety) and Dirks were big power backs and Morehead more of a speed guy. Luke and Sanders rarely saw the field after Hendrix's arrival. Even as hard as Furman rode Dirks in 2017, you saw him lose a lot of carries to Wynn/Watkins in 2018 (Dirks had 100 fewer carries in 2018 than 2017).

What you see now after a few years of recruiting are two flavors of backs - (1) the tailback (TB), an athletic powerful runner that Furman will work both inside and outside and in the passing game; and (2) the running back (RB), a more traditional "B-Back" type of player. Unlike a few years ago, the current group of TBs are very strong runners between the tackles (Morehead almost never ran inside).

Just like any roster, there are a few guys that are not going to play much. I think the Paladins will have a strong rotation in Wynn/Watkins and we'll probably occasionally see the highly regarded Wayne Anderson as well in the TB mix. Carson Maples is probably the starter at RB and looks a lot more agile this summer than I gave him credit for last year. Devin Abrahms played some last year and newcomer Dominic Roberto has gotten some recognition as well.

One wrinkle you saw last year too was that Furman started to use Watkins and Wynn on the field at the same time, which eliminated the RB in certain situations.

The youth of the players isn't terribly concerning. Running back is perhaps the position where there is the easiest transition from high school to college. Factor too that these backs will be running behind what should be a very good offensive line.

At their best, I think Furman should have a type of "positionless" offense with guys lining up at different positions and forcing matchup problems for defenses.

[FUBeAR]

and xfer Maples who totaled 64 yds last year.Hold on now SU Dog - Don’t be throwin’ no shade on FU’s Transfer RB from Air Force. Heck, 64 yards are ‘CAREER numbers’ for 4-star SEC RB’s after they transfer to Samford and settle into the flow of The Hatch Attack.

[Reign of Terrier]

Hype over a stable of running backs is overrated.

Right now, Wofford has at least 4 running backs (VanCleave, Walker, Morgan, Lovelace) who have a pretty good highlight tape, and that's not including at least 2 or so other players that will see time this year.

Having a great feature running back is something you'll take note off in an offense like ETSU or Chattanooga or Mercer, but for the rest of the conference, it's all about depth. Everyone has speedsters that can make some noise in open space, and quite a few have some bruisers as well, but you can only have 2-3 on the field at one time, and only one of them carrying the ball.

[gofurman]

Does that mean less option and more of a power running attack? I typed this question then took a look at your roster. Yes, Watkins and Wynn are 2 really good ones, BUT the other 3 TBs listed are all freshmen. The 5 RBs listed are 2 true Fr, 1 RSFr, 1 RS Soph who has yet to see action, and xfer Maples who totaled 64 yds last year. These guys are supposed to be better than Dirks, Luke, Sanders, and Morehead? I don't mean to be derogatory here or talking smack, as I think Furman will be a real force in the SoCon this season. I took a quick look at the roster and these questions popped up. Please correct me if I made mistakes in what I stated. I may have missed something, but I sincerely would like for you to explain your statement of optimism.

I will admit Morehead is a loss - he had to quit because of an issue and he was good. His first game vs Michigan State!! he ran for 80+ yards. So I hate that for him. But he was already 'gimpy' last year and played very little if you look at what he did.

We basically rode Wynn and Watkins last year and both are back. Maples is hopefully a good one - he was at Air Force so he must have some talent - at the 'Fullback' position.

[PaladinFan]

Hype over a stable of running backs is overrated.

Right now, Wofford has at least 4 running backs (VanCleave, Walker, Morgan, Lovelace) who have a pretty good highlight tape, and that's not including at least 2 or so other players that will see time this year.

Having a great feature running back is something you'll take note off in an offense like ETSU or Chattanooga or Mercer, but for the rest of the conference, it's all about depth. Everyone has speedsters that can make some noise in open space, and quite a few have some bruisers as well, but you can only have 2-3 on the field at one time, and only one of them carrying the ball.

Meh. I'm not with you.

The point I'm making is that Hendrix inherited virtually no depth at those positions. They recruited some talent, now have some depth.

When Furman was at their best offensively, their team was built with a deep rotation of backs who could beat you between the tackles, outside, and in the passing game.