LEGIT QUESTION - how committee works?

[gofurman]

Not asked in anger.... Yet :D

how much sway does the President of the committee hold ? Really asking. How does it work?

I recall UNH used to seem to get preferential treatment- was a UNH guy the President?

Now SLC guy is President and SLC goes from a 9-2 McNeese NOT getting playoffs last year to 6 and 7 win teams both get in this year? NOT being ANTI-SLC. Asking how much the President affects the process? Does he vote? Or just lead process

thanks for helping me understand how the committee process works and how much a President affects it

[ElCid]

Not asked in anger.... Yet :D

how much sway does the President of the committee hold ? Really asking. How does it work?

I recall UNH used to seem to get preferential treatment- was a UNH guy the President?

Now SLC guy is President and SLC goes from a 9-2 McNeese NOT getting playoffs last year to 6 and 7 win teams both get in this year? NOT being ANTI-SLC. Asking how much the President affects the process? Does he vote? Or just lead process

thanks for helping me understand how the committee process works and how much a President affects it



Link

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2018DIMFB_REPORTFCSFootballConfCall2-23-18_FINAL_20180315.pdf

Some of the members have changed since this was published.

[centennial]

Not asked in anger.... Yet :D

how much sway does the President of the committee hold ? Really asking. How does it work?

I recall UNH used to seem to get preferential treatment- was a UNH guy the President?

Now SLC guy is President and SLC goes from a 9-2 McNeese NOT getting playoffs last year to 6 and 7 win teams both get in this year? NOT being ANTI-SLC. Asking how much the President affects the process? Does he vote? Or just lead process

thanks for helping me understand how the committee process works and how much a President affects it

There seems to a fair bit of politics. We have seen it time and time again. YSU has gotten left out at 7 wins multiple times. Multiple other MVFC teams have gotten left out at 7 wins, I think I remember once at 8 too. And in this time the Valley has been the unanimous #1 on the computer rankings.


On the other hand is UNH who even by the ****ty SRS being outside the 25 has made it in multiple times. All of it smells of corporate back room deals. I have zero faith in the selection system.

Also to point out they aren't stupid. Somehow NDSU gets one of the hardest paths to the championship as ranked by Sagarin or Massey. They know which teams are actually good and have a chance to take down NDSU. All of it frankly stinks. And has for multiple years of me following the FCS (7 years).

[MR. CHICKEN]

Link

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2018DIMFB_REPORTFCSFootballConfCall2-23-18_FINAL_20180315.pdf

Some of the members have changed since this was published.

.....AN' HAVE MOVED TA ARIZONA......INNAH NCAA PROTECTION PLAN.......AWK!

[Professor Chaos]

Also to point out they aren't stupid. Somehow NDSU gets one of the hardest paths to the championship as ranked by Sagarin or Massey. They know which teams are actually good and have a chance to take down NDSU. All of it frankly stinks. And has for multiple years of me following the FCS (7 years).
How would you have done the bracket differently to make it "easier" for NDSU? According to Sagarin and Massey NDSU has roughly a 75% chance to make it to Frisco. How is that "one of the toughest paths"?

I'm just getting frustrated with how insecure some Bison fans come off as when, year after year, some of you keep claiming that the committee is colluding against NDSU.

[Preferred Walk-On]

How would you have done the bracket differently to make it "easier" for NDSU? According to Sagarin and Massey NDSU has roughly a 75% chance to make it to Frisco. How is that "one of the toughest paths"?

I'm just getting frustrated with how insecure some Bison fans come off as when, year after year, some of you keep claiming that the committee is colluding against NDSU.

You have to play and beat who is in front of you. Plain and simple. This would seem to fall on the minor end of the collusion scale by today's standards. My only wish is that the Committee could implement a rule that if two teams that made the championship in the previous year, they be placed in opposite sides of the bracket (just for the potential of a title rematch). But I also know if two teams are good, this poses a potential Mt. Union v. UW-Whitewater scenario, which would probably not be good for the FCS.


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[Preferred Walk-On]

You have to play and beat who is in front of you. Plain and simple. This would seem to fall on the minor end of the collusion scale by today's standards. My only wish is that the Committee could implement a rule that if two teams that made the championship in the previous year, they be placed in opposite sides of the bracket (just for the potential of a title rematch). But I also know if two teams are good, this poses a potential Mt. Union v. UW-Whitewater scenario, which would probably not be good for the FCS.


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Oh, and if possible, doing away with regionalization and seeding all teams would be nice too.


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[MR. CHICKEN]

You have to play and beat who is in front of you. Plain and simple. This would seem to fall on the minor end of the collusion scale by today's standards. My only wish is that the Committee could implement a rule that if two teams that made the championship in the previous year, they be placed in opposite sides of the bracket (just for the potential of a title rematch). But I also know if two teams are good, this poses a potential Mt. Union v. UW-Whitewater scenario, which would probably not be good for the FCS.


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......UMMM.......BUT......SEVERAL CHAMPIONSHIPS.......FROM FARGO.........IS...............AWK!

[Professor Chaos]

Oh, and if possible, doing away with regionalization and seeding all teams would be nice too.


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Agreed, it would be. Unfortunately until the FCS playoffs start being more self-sustainable financially that's likely a pipe dream. Attendance will be key as the more people that show up for these playoff games the more money they'll bring in and the better case can be made for additional seeds or at least additional seed pools (i.e. grouping the 16 teams that play on turkey day weekend into 4 team seed pools a la the NCAA basketball tourney). I've got attendance figures in the playoffs since 2013 that I'll compare with this year just to get an idea of how they're trending. Last year total attendance in the playoffs was only topped by 2015 which was the all-time high.

[BEAR]

So each team's selection was done via secret ballot.

Doesn't sound like one guy had that much influence on the process to me. xcoffeex

[Preferred Walk-On]

......UMMM.......BUT......SEVERAL CHAMPIONSHIPS.......FROM FARGO.........IS...............AWK!

Never said it was, but I am enjoying them. Also, mostly different opponents.


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[MR. CHICKEN]

Never said it was, but I am enjoying them. Also, mostly different opponents.


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....BIZONSSSS.....ARE......... MT UNION/WHITE WA-WA..........AWK!

[walliver]

There are the published rules, and then there is reality.

The AD's who make the decision know each other. Unfortunately, they often look out for each other also.

Every year, the committee does something unexpected and controversial. The next year, they seem to do something else unexpected and controversial to make up for the previous years error.

This year there were only about 20 teams that "deserved" a spot based on on-field performance, and only 3-5 with a realistic chance of winning it all. Most of the current arguments are over which bubble team is somehow more deserving than other bubble teams.

[centennial]

How would you have done the bracket differently to make it "easier" for NDSU? According to Sagarin and Massey NDSU has roughly a 75% chance to make it to Frisco. How is that "one of the toughest paths"?

I'm just getting frustrated with how insecure some Bison fans come off as when, year after year, some of you keep claiming that the committee is colluding against NDSU.

I'm just making a point. I don't care who NDSU plays. My point being I'm not even sure the committee believes it's own rankings. It's not the NCAA's job to make things fair. It's to get the best teams in the playoffs. Period.

Could you imagine what would happen if in a FBS playoffs American and SEC get three teams in, while the PAC12 gets 6? I am extremely disappointed with how things are run. Deserving teams are left out every year. We just need to go to a system where there is an independent panel of FCS experts and journalists. No AD's, no Marty, no head of panel getting 6 win teams from lower conferences in. It makes for bad games even more than necessary.

[Sycamore62]

There is absolutely NO reason they can't have the committee meeting for every sport's selection process televised. I'm not saying this because of our situation this year. I've thought this about the FBS and Basketball tournament for years. Own your decisions. Don't send a guy out to give the reason you came up with. Let us know everyone's reasons. If they also do a ballot then it needs to be published later. there is no need for secrecy. you wouldn't provide that to your students, you dont deserve it in your decisions.

[PaladinFan]

There are the published rules, and then there is reality.

The AD's who make the decision know each other. Unfortunately, they often look out for each other also.

Every year, the committee does something unexpected and controversial. The next year, they seem to do something else unexpected and controversial to make up for the previous years error.

This year there were only about 20 teams that "deserved" a spot based on on-field performance, and only 3-5 with a realistic chance of winning it all. Most of the current arguments are over which bubble team is somehow more deserving than other bubble teams.

One thing I have realized is that strength of schedule seems to matter little, and particularly less so if you don't win the tough games.

[walliver]

One thing I have realized is that strength of schedule seems to matter little, and particularly less so if you don't win the tough games.

Strong strength of schedule is helpful if you win and they like you.
Strong strength of schedule can be somewhat beneficial if you lose and they really like you, or if you draw large crowds in the playoffs.
Weak strength of schedule only works against you if they don't like you.

I really wish there was some way we could have a first week "pre season" game that didn't count, so that FCS teams could play competitive inter-regional games. Unfortunately, with our subjective evaluation, there is no way a pre-season loss wouldn't work against a team.

[KPSUL]

Unfortunately, innuendo and wild-ass speculation about the selection committee is an annual occurrence this time of year, not only on AGS, but coming out of the mouths of a few coaches now-a-days. Nobody knows this better than a UNH fan. Over the previous five seasons UNH had a 8-5 win/loss playoff record. Yet every year, except 2014 when we they went undefeated in regular season FCS play, there was endless accusations that we got in with a 7-4 record only because our AD was on the committee. It's unfortunate that Dr Teague has to deal with the same. I felt he could have done a more thorough job explaining the decision-making process when interviewed on the selection show, but I guess that might just create more conspiracy theories.

[Sycamore62]

Unfortunately, innuendo and wild-ass speculation about the selection committee is an annual occurrence this time of year, not only on AGS, but coming out of the mouths of a few coaches now-a-days. Nobody knows this better than a UNH fan. Over the previous five seasons UNH had a 8-5 win/loss playoff record. Yet every year, except 2014 when we they went undefeated in regular season FCS play, there was endless accusations that we got in with a 7-4 record only because our AD was on the committee. It's unfortunate that Dr Teague has to deal with the same. I felt he could have done a more thorough job explaining the decision-making process when interviewed on the selection show, but I guess that might just create more conspiracy theories.





I think he did the best job possible explaining their decision making process

[Reign of Terrier]

The committee cares about "brand recognition" and money.

We have bid pretty aggressively in the last 7 years or so (this is the second time we host as not a seed), but Wofford has been shipped across the country lots of times to play some tough squads.

We went to seeded Montana in 2007, the same year we beat App State and got the autobid for the socon. We were still a tough squad in 2008 and got sent to the #1 seed JMU. In 2011 we got sent to UNI (which was probably the most reasonable).

I think since then, Wofford has tried its best to get at least one home game and we have played one every time since 2012 through bidding first round games and seeding.

But still, if I'm honest, those 2007-2008 teams deserved a better draw in the first round by virtue of merit than the ones in 2010-2012. The match ups were reasonable for those 3 years, but the teams had better resumes in 2007-2008 and had harder matchups.

Nowadays, thanks (or no thanks) to regionalization, Wofford can't complain too much about our first round games. If you ask me if I want a conference rematch or to finish 9-2 and get sent to the number one seed, I pick the former

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[KPSUL]

Someone else posted this 15 minute briefing on the FCS selection process in an earlier thread this week. It will answer your question.

It should be mandatory viewing before anyone posts to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8FECEd5QPiA&app=desktop

[Twentysix]

How would you have done the bracket differently to make it "easier" for NDSU? According to Sagarin and Massey NDSU has roughly a 75% chance to make it to Frisco. How is that "one of the toughest paths"?

I'm just getting frustrated with how insecure some Bison fans come off as when, year after year, some of you keep claiming that the committee is colluding against NDSU.

tbh the fcs regular season games have been so boring the last few years, a strong fcs playoff path should at least be exciting.

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=KPSUL;2715694]
Unfortunately, innuendo and wild-ass speculation about the selection committee is an annual occurrence this time of year, not only on AGS, but coming out of the mouths of a few coaches now-a-days. Nobody knows this better than a UNH fan. Over the previous five seasons UNH had a 8-5 win/loss playoff record. Yet every year, except 2014 when we they went undefeated in regular season FCS play, there was endless accusations that we got in with a 7-4 record only because our AD was on the committee. It's unfortunate that Dr Teague has to deal with the same. I felt he could have done a more thorough job explaining the decision-making process when interviewed on the selection show, but I guess that might just create more conspiracy theories.

....WELL WHAT TA THINK......WHEN.....YOU-DEE HAD TOUGHER STRENGTH UH SKED....OVERAH YER 'CATS.......LAST YEAR.......AN' SPIN WAS.....YER DUBBYAH.....OVERAH GA. SOUFFERN.......DEY'RE....WILL ALWAYS BE UH REASON TA SPIN........SUCH AS....MAINE'S.....SEED.....OVERAH JMU....WHICH SAVES UH PLANE RIDE....TA PHILLY....AS CONFERENCE CHAMPS........DUH GOOD DOCTOR....HAD NO DETAILS....AS TA HOW UH HIGHER RANKED TEAM ALL YEAR.......DID'NT GET UH SEED....ALONG WHIFF DUH BEARS.........WHICH LEADS ME TA MAH SUSPICION.....BRAWK!

[Preferred Walk-On]

....BIZONSSSS.....ARE......... MT UNION/WHITE WA-WA..........AWK!

The Bison are only one team and cannot play themselves in the championship. Hence, they can only be one of those. Your choice.

- - - Updated - - -


So each team's selection was done via "secret" ballot.

Doesn't sound like one guy had that much influence on the process to me. xcoffeex

FIFY

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=Preferred Walk-On;2715723]The Bison are only one team and cannot play themselves in the championship. Hence, they can only be one of those. Your choice.

.....DID YOUSE JES'.....FALL OFFAH.....DUH.......**** WAGON...xconfusedx.........BRAWK!

......DEY DISCUSS PRIOR TA VOTES.......SO SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE UH CASE......COOD VERAH WELL INFLUENCE....COMMITTEE...........DOODLE-DOO-DOO!

- - - Updated - - -

[Professor Chaos]

I'm just making a point. I don't care who NDSU plays. My point being I'm not even sure the committee believes it's own rankings. It's not the NCAA's job to make things fair. It's to get the best teams in the playoffs. Period.

Could you imagine what would happen if in a FBS playoffs American and SEC get three teams in, while the PAC12 gets 6? I am extremely disappointed with how things are run. Deserving teams are left out every year. We just need to go to a system where there is an independent panel of FCS experts and journalists. No AD's, no Marty, no head of panel getting 6 win teams from lower conferences in. It makes for bad games even more than necessary.
I think the committee believes in their top 8 which, consequently, is almost dead on to what the AGS consensus top 8 was on the Selection Sunday poll. After that they've made some pretty odd decisions over the last couple years with their last team or two in but that's really not anything to get worked up over IMO because those teams are likely to win one game at most anyway and the teams that were left out always have some pretty questionable items on their resume. I do believe Indiana St should be in the field over UIW or Lamar but they scheduled a D2 game, they had a bad loss at home to a 2-6 (in the MVFC) Missouri St, and they were shut out by fellow bubble team UNI 33-0.

In any case after the top 8 that committee has no obligation to make a "balanced bracket" but they are obligated to build the bracket geographically. I mentioned it in another thread but they actually broke the rules this year to the benefit of the MVFC when it came to building the bracket. UNI should've been podded with SDSU since they're bus distance from Brookings and neither Towson nor Duquesne are that close and neither are UNI or Lamar that close to UC Davis. So they potentially added another charter flight to avoid having all 3 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket (which I'm sure no one would've complained about xrolleyesx).

Bottom line is blame the process not the committee. Be a part of the solution by attending more playoff games and encouraging others to attend. The only way the FCS playoffs gets out of this geographic bracket building process is to be more financially self-sufficient.

[Bison56]

I think the committee believes in their top 8 which, consequently, is almost dead on to what the AGS consensus top 8 was on the Selection Sunday poll. After that they've made some pretty odd decisions over the last couple years with their last team or two in but that's really not anything to get worked up over IMO because those teams are likely to win one game at most anyway and the teams that were left out always have some pretty questionable items on their resume. I do believe Indiana St should be in the field over UIW or Lamar but they scheduled a D2 game, they had a bad loss at home to a 2-6 (in the MVFC) Missouri St, and they were shut out by fellow bubble team UNI 33-0.

In any case after the top 8 that committee has no obligation to make a "balanced bracket" but they are obligated to build the bracket geographically. I mentioned it in another thread but they actually broke the rules this year to the benefit of the MVFC when it came to building the bracket. UNI should've been podded with SDSU since they're bus distanced from Brookings and neither Towson nor Duquesne are that close and neither are UNI or Lamar that close to UC Davis. So they potentially added another charter flight to avoid having all 3 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket (which I'm sure no one would've complained about xrolleyesx).

Bottom line is blame the process not the committee. Be a part of the solution by attending more playoff games and encouraging others to attend. The only way the FCS playoffs gets out of this geographic bracket building process is to be more financially self-sufficient.

Exactly

[Professor Chaos]

So just going to throw this out there again in the hopes that someday it might be a reality. My wish for a playoff format in the future that balances the bracket yet still leaves room for some regionalization seeds the top 8 same as today but then groups the bottom 16 playing Thanksgiving weekend into four team pools of 3 through 6 seeds that are then paired with each other geographically (3s vs 6s and 4s vs 5s) and fed into the top 8 (3s vs 6s fed into seeds 5-8 and 4s vs 5s fed into seeds 1-4).

This year with this approach the bracket could've looked something like this:

3 seeds
JMU
Wofford
Nicholls
Towson

4 seeds
Jacksonville St
Stony Brook
Delaware
Elon

5 seeds
Montana St
SEMO
ETSU
UNI

6 seeds
Incarnate Word
Lamar
San Diego
Duquesne


Winner of Elon/SEMO to #1 NDSU
Winner of JMU/Duquesne to #8 Colgate
Winner of Jacksonville St/ETSU to #4 Kennesaw St
Winner of Towson/Incarnate Word to #5 SDSU
Winner of Stony Brook/Montana St to #2 Weber St
Winner of Wofford/Lamar to #7 Maine
Winner of Delaware/UNI to #3 EWU
Winner of Nicholls/San Diego to #6 UC Davis

[AmsterBison]

How it should work, IMO:

1. Seed 16, not 8.
2. Charge $.50 per attendee at FCS games for the playoff expense. I mean reported attendance is 5 million so 50 cents a ticket would bring in $2.5 million alone (of course, I think that attendance would drop by ~30% so make it $1.85 million.)
3. Open up the books. If the playoffs are losing money despite the bid money and stuff, we deserve to know why.

[Professor Chaos]

How it should work, IMO:

1. Seed 16, not 8.
2. Put a surcharge on ticket sales to cover the cost of the playoffs (to supplement the money they get from playoff bids - which, as a revenue stream, is way too unpredictable). I'm guessing that a $.50 per attendee charge at FCS games would do it. I mean reported attendance is 5 million so 50 cents a ticket would bring in $2.5 million alone (of course, I think that attendance would drop by 30% so make it $1.85 million.)
3. Open up the books. If the bids aren't covering it now, we deserve to know where that money is going.
xlolx Now that would be funny to see the year over year reported attendance decline at some places if they implemented the bolded item above. I always chuckle when it inevitably happens as we discuss playoff attendance each year and people say "I know there was way more people there than that!" because at some places fans have been coached to estimate crowd size based on the inflated regular season reported attendance figures that gets so fugded by certain athletics departments.

[ST_Lawson]

The Bison are only one team and cannot play themselves in the championship. Hence, they can only be one of those. Your choice.

Incorrect. If NDSU loses, it's because they beat themselves. Therefore they can be both.

[centennial]

I think the committee believes in their top 8 which, consequently, is almost dead on to what the AGS consensus top 8 was on the Selection Sunday poll. After that they've made some pretty odd decisions over the last couple years with their last team or two in but that's really not anything to get worked up over IMO because those teams are likely to win one game at most anyway and the teams that were left out always have some pretty questionable items on their resume. I do believe Indiana St should be in the field over UIW or Lamar but they scheduled a D2 game, they had a bad loss at home to a 2-6 (in the MVFC) Missouri St, and they were shut out by fellow bubble team UNI 33-0.

In any case after the top 8 that committee has no obligation to make a "balanced bracket" but they are obligated to build the bracket geographically. I mentioned it in another thread but they actually broke the rules this year to the benefit of the MVFC when it came to building the bracket. UNI should've been podded with SDSU since they're bus distance from Brookings and neither Towson nor Duquesne are that close and neither are UNI or Lamar that close to UC Davis. So they potentially added another charter flight to avoid having all 3 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket (which I'm sure no one would've complained about xrolleyesx).

Bottom line is blame the process not the committee. Be a part of the solution by attending more playoff games and encouraging others to attend. The only way the FCS playoffs gets out of this geographic bracket building process is to be more financially self-sufficient.

Can we stop letting the committee off the hook because the bubble teams won't win? This is a bad argument. Oh they weren't going to win so **** em. I'm saying this as a football fan. Let the teams who deserve to be in play. What good will IW do when UNI runs them off the playing field? Let this go to a panel of experts that have some objective opinions.

[POD Knows]

Can we stop letting the committee off the hook because the bubble teams won't win? This is a bad argument. Oh they weren't going to win so **** em. I'm saying this as a football fan. Let the teams who deserve to be in play. What good will IW do when UNI runs them off the playing field? Let this go to a panel of experts that have some objective opinions.
UNI doesn't play Incarnate Word

[Reign of Terrier]

Can we stop letting the committee off the hook because the bubble teams won't win? This is a bad argument. Oh they weren't going to win so **** em. I'm saying this as a football fan. Let the teams who deserve to be in play. What good will IW do when UNI runs them off the playing field? Let this go to a panel of experts that have some objective opinions.

Here's the thing: bubble teams can win too! Remember New Hampshire last year?

One of the problems with arguments about the bubble is that a lot of times it benefits from the lack of counterfactuals.

The fact is, usually there are 3 tiers to the FCS: the top (NDSU+1 or 2 other teams), the middle (Wofford, UNI, 3 CAA teams, Sam Houston State, Central Arkansas), and the bubble teams. What differentiates the middle from the bubble is that those teams usually have the resume to get in and they have the success to back it up. The bubble teams can beat the middle teams (it happens all the time), but it depends on matchups.

For example, I think EWU or Delaware could have probably beaten Nicholls last year, but if you're a South Dakota fan, you cite the tangible win as evidence that you belonged. But if you're EWU or Delaware, you're not afforded that opportunity.

[Sycamore62]

UNI doesn't play Incarnate Word

They will beat Lamar so bad that IW forfeits and plays the money game against Iowa St instead

[BEAR]

They will beat Lamar so bad that IW forfeits and plays the money game against Iowa St instead

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4b/97/5b/4b975b567a8d24db7def31eb42fc5bd2.jpg

[Preferred Walk-On]

[QUOTE=Preferred Walk-On;2715723]The Bison are only one team and cannot play themselves in the championship. Hence, they can only be one of those. Your choice.

.....DID YOUSE JES'.....FALL OFFAH.....DUH.......**** WAGON...xconfusedx.........BRAWK!

......DEY DISCUSS PRIOR TA VOTES.......SO SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE UH CASE......COOD VERAH WELL INFLUENCE....COMMITTEE...........DOODLE-DOO-DOO!

- - - Updated - - -

I think we have lost what we are talking about here, or at least I have. If I am interpreting this correctly, you bolded my thoughts on whether NDSU is Mt. Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. Yet, at least your second comment appears to be about a "secret" ballot, which I think I agree with you, is of course no secret. I might have to take out my chicken-translator shortly.

I think I lost you, because I was trying to point out that Mt. Union v. Wisconsin-Whitewater was the same championship for many, many years, but NDSU has faced five different opponents in their six championships. If hypothetically, NDSU had faced Sam Houston State for all of their championship games, then yes, this might not be so good for the FCS. One can (and many have) argued about how NDSU is bad for the FCS (that is not what I am arguing here). I am simply arguing that the championship game has had variety in the form of different opponents. This was in reference to my wish for having championship teams on different sides of the bracket, which while providing opportunity for a rematch, also has the potential for others to be bored by it. I suspect the boredom would be if their team has not been in a little while, which NDSU will eventually encounter.

The first comment about falling of the ****wagon, I guess I don't understand, but I did fall on the ice this morning.

[AmsterBison]

Here's the thing: bubble teams can win too! Remember New Hampshire last year?

One of the problems with arguments about the bubble is that a lot of times it benefits from the lack of counterfactuals.

Yeah, I think it's important to have the 17-24 teams in the playoffs... San Diego was never even given a chance until the playoffs when to 20+, and they pummeled some teams. In some cases, getting into the playoffs helps bubble teams take the next step.

[POD Knows]

They will beat Lamar so bad that IW forfeits and plays the money game against Iowa St insteadCould slide Furman into the spot vacated by the IW forfeit?

[Preferred Walk-On]

So just going to throw this out there again in the hopes that someday it might be a reality. My wish for a playoff format in the future that balances the bracket yet still leaves room for some regionalization seeds the top 8 same as today but then groups the bottom 16 playing Thanksgiving weekend into four team pools of 3 through 6 seeds that are then paired with each other geographically (3s vs 6s and 4s vs 5s) and fed into the top 8 (3s vs 6s fed into seeds 5-8 and 4s vs 5s fed into seeds 1-4).

This year with this approach the bracket could've looked something like this:

3 seeds
JMU
Wofford
Nicholls
Towson

4 seeds
Jacksonville St
Stony Brook
Delaware
Elon

5 seeds
Montana St
SEMO
ETSU
UNI

6 seeds
Incarnate Word
Lamar
San Diego
Duquesne


Winner of Elon/SEMO to #1 NDSU
Winner of JMU/Duquesne to #8 Colgate
Winner of Jacksonville St/ETSU to #4 Kennesaw St
Winner of Towson/Incarnate Word to #5 SDSU
Winner of Stony Brook/Montana St to #2 Weber St
Winner of Wofford/Lamar to #7 Maine
Winner of Delaware/UNI to #3 EWU
Winner of Nicholls/San Diego to #6 UC Davis

Whoa! That is way too logical to ever occur. xcrazyx

[Professor Chaos]

Can we stop letting the committee off the hook because the bubble teams won't win? This is a bad argument. Oh they weren't going to win so **** em. I'm saying this as a football fan. Let the teams who deserve to be in play. What good will IW do when UNI runs them off the playing field? Let this go to a panel of experts that have some objective opinions.
I think finding truly objective experts for a FCS playoff selection panel may be tougher than you'd think but I can get on board that it would be better to have committee members not directly affiliated (as is on the payroll) with the schools/conferences under consideration.

[cx500d]

I think finding truly objective experts for a FCS playoff selection panel may be tougher than you'd think but I can get on board that it would be better to have committee members not directly affiliated (as is on the payroll) with the schools/conferences under consideration.
I will be first to volunteer my unbiased, but correct, opinion for said committee

[BEAR]

I will be first to volunteer my unbiased, but correct, opinion for said committee

Me too. xthumbsupx xlolx I honestly don't think Incarpet Wurd will be back for YEARS to come. They got the benefit of the top SLC teams losing tons of talent last year (rebuilding) and having serious injuries to starters occur during the season (QBs and Oline to say the least). It was the perfect storm.

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715725]

I think we have lost what we are talking about here, or at least I have. If I am interpreting this correctly, you bolded my thoughts on whether NDSU is Mt. Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. Yet, at least your second comment appears to be about a "secret" ballot, which I think I agree with you, is of course no secret. I might have to take out my chicken-translator shortly.

I think I lost you, because I was trying to point out that Mt. Union v. Wisconsin-Whitewater was the same championship for many, many years, but NDSU has faced five different opponents in their six championships. If hypothetically, NDSU had faced Sam Houston State for all of their championship games, then yes, this might not be so good for the FCS. One can (and many have) argued about how NDSU is bad for the FCS (that is not what I am arguing here). I am simply arguing that the championship game has had variety in the form of different opponents. This was in reference to my wish for having championship teams on different sides of the bracket, which while providing opportunity for a rematch, also has the potential for others to be bored by it. I suspect the boredom would be if their team has not been in a little while, which NDSU will eventually encounter.

The first comment about falling of the ****wagon, I guess I don't understand, but I did fall on the ice this morning.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29556&stc=1......AH'M SAYIN.........NORFF DAKOTAH STATE........WINNIN'...DUH BLING EVERAH SEASON.......HAS BECOME AS BORIN'.....IN FCS.....AS...DUH MOUNT.....&...WHITE WA-WA.....ARE TA D-III........AWK!

[cx500d]

[QUOTE=Preferred Walk-On;2715782]

......AH'M SAYIN.........NORFF DAKOTAH STATE........WINNIN'...DUH BLING EVERAH SEASON.......HAS BECOME AS BORIN'.....IN FCS.....AS...DUH MOUNT.....&...WHITE WA-WA.....ARE TA D-III........AWK!

Thats your opinion chicken-man

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=KPSUL;2715694]
Unfortunately, innuendo and wild-ass speculation about the selection committee is an annual occurrence this time of year, not only on AGS, but coming out of the mouths of a few coaches now-a-days. Nobody knows this better than a UNH fan. Over the previous five seasons UNH had a 8-5 win/loss playoff record. Yet every year, except 2014 when we they went undefeated in regular season FCS play, there was endless accusations that we got in with a 7-4 record only because our AD was on the committee. It's unfortunate that Dr Teague has to deal with the same. I felt he could have done a more thorough job explaining the decision-making process when interviewed on the selection show, but I guess that might just create more conspiracy theories.

....WELL WHAT TA THINK......WHEN.....YOU-DEE HAD TOUGHER STRENGTH UH SKED....OVERAH YER 'CATS.......LAST YEAR.......AN' SPIN WAS.....YER DUBBYAH.....OVERAH GA. SOUFFERN.......DEY'RE....WILL ALWAYS BE UH REASON TA SPIN........SUCH AS....MAINE'S.....SEED.....OVERAH JMU....WHICH SAVES UH PLANE RIDE....TA PHILLY....AS CONFERENCE CHAMPS........DUH GOOD DOCTOR....HAD NO DETAILS....AS TA HOW UH HIGHER RANKED TEAM ALL YEAR.......DID'NT GET UH SEED....ALONG WHIFF DUH BEARS.........WHICH LEADS ME TA MAH SUSPICION.....BRAWK!



If 2017 Delaware should have been selected for the playoff it would not have been at UNH's expense. Dah Cats were not one of the last two teams selected. Coach Rocco was out of line to make it a UofD vs UNH thing and UNH winning two playoff games that season confirmed the validity of their selection.

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715863]

Thats your opinion chicken-man

.....AN'....AH'M NOT ALONE..............AWQ!

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715721]

If 2017 Delaware should have been selected for the playoff it would not have been at UNH's expense. Dah Cats were not one of the last two teams selected. Coach Rocco was out of line to make it a UofD vs UNH thing and UNH winning two playoff games that season confirmed the validity of that selection.


.........WE SHUDDAH HAD YER SLOT......PLENTY UH CAA'S....COODAH DONE WHAA....YOUSE DID...........AWK!


....IFIN' YA NEED TA REFRESH.....PULL UP....SOME UH LAST YEAR......BRAWK!

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=KPSUL;2715865]


.........WE SHUDDAH HAD YER SLOT......PLENTY UH CAA'S....COODAH DONE WHAA....YOUSE DID...........AWK!


....IFIN' YA NEED TA REFRESH.....PULL UP....SOME UH LAST YEAR......BRAWK!

And I used to think you were as smart as the Chicken at the Tropicana in Atlantic City who never lost a game of Tic, Tac, Toe !

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715863]

Thats your opinion chicken-man

put me in Chickens camp as well, foregone conclusions don't muster up much interest oustide of Bisonville

[uni88]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715863]

Thats the opinion of the vast majority of FCS fans who aren't living in Canada's fromunda cheese chicken-man

FYP :p

[Preferred Walk-On]

[QUOTE=Preferred Walk-On;2715782]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29556&stc=1......AH'M SAYIN.........NORFF DAKOTAH STATE........WINNIN'...DUH BLING EVERAH SEASON.......HAS BECOME AS BORIN'.....IN FCS.....AS...DUH MOUNT.....&...WHITE WA-WA.....ARE TA D-III........AWK!

Gotcha'. No worries. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't think it's as stale as Mt. Union v. Wisconsin-Whitewater. That said, there have been some awesome games between those schools, and those have not gotten stale. It is hard to think it is boring when the team I support has been this successful. I can see it though for others vantage points. For NDSU supporters, any staleness comes from playing the same teams in the playoffs each year (SDSU, UNI, SHSU). This year, if the Bison are fortunate to make it that far, a potential match with SDSU should be more exciting, as it would be the semifinal, as opposed to a 2nd round game.

Best of luck to your squad in beginning the quest to make the FCS less boring. ;)

[gofurman]

So each team's selection was done via secret ballot.

Doesn't sound like one guy had that much influence on the process to me. xcoffeex

THIS is what I am asking. BUT IF IF IF its secret ballot the, well, HOW did New Hampshire get all that favorable treatment???

and if there is NO influence how does the SLC jump from one bid to three the year an SLC guy takes over? This is not an SLC slam. It's a QUESTION. it doesn't add up.

Was the New Hampshire guy the President ??

[cx500d]

THIS is what I am asking. BUT IF IF IF its secret ballot the, well, HOW did New Hampshire get all that favorable treatment???

and if there is NO influence how does the SLC jump from one bid to three the year an SLC guy takes over? This is not an SLC slam. It's a QUESTION. it doesn't add up.

Was the New Hampshire guy the President ??
New Hampshire special treatment was just #ButtHurt opinion of people that didn’t get in...much like you are showing now. yeah New Hampshire had a questionable record last year, but they won 2 games, including one against a seed....which told me they did belong.

[gofurman]

. Can we stop letting the committee off the hook because the bubble teams won't win? This is a bad argument. Oh they weren't going to win so **** em. I'm saying this as a football fan. Let the teams who deserve to be in play. What good will IW do when UNI runs them off the playing field? Let this go to a panel of experts that have some objective opinions.


Right - that's a HORRIBLE argument.

Two reasons

1). - ITS SPORTS. you cannot say that any one team will FOR SURE not beat another. My Furman basketball guys just beat TWO final Four teams in last two weeks - Villanova and Loyola Chicago. We all know of huge upset in sports. I mean, App State couldn't possibly beat Michigan right? Right? Everyone has a team here that has pulled big upsets ! Citadel beat South Carolina in football 3 years ago

2). The extra practice you get in playoffs for a week or two is HUGE. It matters for developing players for the next year. to make bad misses (as our committee does)! on who gets those week(s) of playoff extra practice isn't right

[gofurman]

Could slide Furman into the spot vacated by the IW forfeit?

POD, that's an Interesting point you have. Furman fans discussed it. Because one thing is it would be nice just to have another game to have repetitions and practice !

But it appears that once UIW and ISU killed it w UIW making playoffs that the game is gone

good point though

[gofurman]

New Hampshire special treatment was just #ButtHurt opinion of people that didn’t get in...much like you are showing now. yeah New Hampshire had a questionable record last year, but they won 2 games, including one against a seed....which told me they did belong.

Cx500d, . I am NOT butthurt. CHILL OUT. I am just asking HOW A PROCESS WORKS. That's all. Nothing more. You are taking this wrong. Like a good Democracy, No one should be afraid of asking how a process works - if we are afraid of asking how the process works then there must be something that is not right in that process !!!

so no one from UNH was on that committee where people some people didn't think UNH belonged? I thought people said the UNH guy appeared to carry a lot of weight???

[JSUSoutherner]

This thread looks like a real winner.

[gofurman]

Yeah, I think it's important to have the 17-24 teams in the playoffs... San Diego was never even given a chance until the playoffs when to 20+, and they pummeled some teams. In some cases, getting into the playoffs helps bubble teams take the next step.

Amster is spot on.

[kalm]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;2715721]

If 2017 Delaware should have been selected for the playoff it would not have been at UNH's expense. Dah Cats were not one of the last two teams selected. Coach Rocco was out of line to make it a UofD vs UNH thing and UNH winning two playoff games that season confirmed the validity of their selection.

CCSU and an overrated UCA.

[kalm]

New Hampshire special treatment was just #ButtHurt opinion of people that didn’t get in...much like you are showing now. yeah New Hampshire had a questionable record last year, but they won 2 games, including one against a seed....which told me they did belong.

No they didn’t, and 2016 was even worse. They lost at home to Albany in the 2nd to last game and lost to bad Dartmouth earlier. Albany has the H2H and an FBS win that year and doesn’t get in.

[kalm]

There seems to a fair bit of politics. We have seen it time and time again. YSU has gotten left out at 7 wins multiple times. Multiple other MVFC teams have gotten left out at 7 wins, I think I remember once at 8 too. And in this time the Valley has been the unanimous #1 on the computer rankings.


On the other hand is UNH who even by the ****ty SRS being outside the 25 has made it in multiple times. All of it smells of corporate back room deals. I have zero faith in the selection system.

Also to point out they aren't stupid. Somehow NDSU gets one of the hardest paths to the championship as ranked by Sagarin or Massey. They know which teams are actually good and have a chance to take down NDSU. All of it frankly stinks. And has for multiple years of me following the FCS (7 years).

I’d trade you Nicholls, Davis, and Weber for MSU, Colgate/JMU, and Kennesaw.

[BEAR]

THIS is what I am asking. BUT IF IF IF its secret ballot the, well, HOW did New Hampshire get all that favorable treatment???

and if there is NO influence how does the SLC jump from one bid to three the year an SLC guy takes over? This is not an SLC slam. It's a QUESTION. it doesn't add up.

Was the New Hampshire guy the President ??

2015- Sam and McNeese went and had to play each other.
2016- UCA and Sam went.
2017- Sam, UCA, and Nicholls
2018- Nicholls, Lamar, and UIW.

The SLC isn't getting more in. Just different teams are having success in the SLC.

[Outsider1]

2015- Sam and McNeese went and had to play each other.
2016- UCA and Sam went.
2017- Sam, UCA, and Nicholls
2018- Nicholls, Lamar, and UIW.

The SLC isn't getting more in. Just different teams are having success in the SLC.

+100%
Exactly, and the normal pansies on this board can't deal with it....

[Reign of Terrier]

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I like incarnate word to beat Montana State

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[ElCid]

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I like incarnate word to beat Montana State

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Not sure they will, but I think the blowout that some are predicting is easily not a given.

[cx500d]

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I like incarnate word to beat Montana State

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
even with their qb being out of the game?

[Reign of Terrier]

even with their qb being out of the game?Air raid offenses man, they seem to just plug in QBs and do just fine.

Admittedly, I'm just looking at their W/L column and their scores.

And no offense but at least one Big Sky team lays an egg every year

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[cx500d]

Air raid offenses man, they seem to just plug in QBs and do just fine.

Admittedly, I'm just looking at their W/L column and their scores.

And no offense but at least one Big Sky team lays an egg every year

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
this is the same Qb they had last year when they were stinkums.

air raid relies a lot on timing...if the qb hasn’t played a lot I wonder if he’ll have the timing down.

[gofurman]

+100%
Exactly, and the normal pansies on this board can't deal with it....

Funny. Those that are scared of the QUESTION are pansies. I'm just asking a QUESTION. Nothing at all wrong w asking questions.

And to those that answered with DATA I appreciate it. I just Want to learn. Thanks to those that sent objective thoughts / answers.

[caribbeanhen]

even with their qb being out of the game?

what happened to him?

[cx500d]

what happened to him?
Acl tear in the last game... it’s on the uiw MSU thread

[caribbeanhen]

Acl tear in the last game... it’s on the uiw MSU thread

thanks, injuries no bueno

[KPSUL]

Funny. Those that are scared of the QUESTION are pansies. I'm just asking a QUESTION. Nothing at all wrong w asking questions.

And to those that answered with DATA I appreciate it. I just Want to learn. Thanks to those that sent objective thoughts / answers.

UNH's AD was the previous CAA representative to the selection committee, I don't believe he was ever the chairman. I understand the concerns about independence of having a committee of FCS ADs selecting the playoff field, however there are significant controls in place designed to minimize the threats to a fully objective process -
The committee members cannot vote for their own team and they leave room when discussions concerning their own team are conducted. Every year there are tough calls to be made, that happened again this year and it will continue to happen in the future - regardless of the selection methodology.