Patriot League 2019 Off Season Thread

[RichH2]

Patriot League expansion has always been reactive. Fordham was approached when Davidson was overwhelmed in just two seasons and made a hasty retreat back to D-III, only to be reclassified four years later. Fordham wasn't ready for the move. So, too, Georgetown, who got the call after word that Towson was ready to leave and thought it could compete with a $250K budget.

If Fordham did leave (and I don't think the Rams' administration has the fortitude to do so), what would the PL do? Send up an all-points bulletin for Monmouth? Would they consider Hampton? Or would they walk along the edge at six and hope Holy Cross doesn't follow in the Rams' footsteps?

PL and most every AD are paranoid about further shifting sands of teams switching conferences in the northeast. The Presidents are not concerned enough to be proactive. Neither Fordham nor Hoyas have any other tie to the PL. IfvRams flow into the CAA , urgency will bring us a Monmouth, Bryant or the like. We may bitch but the onesvwe want arent beating down our door anymore. If we want them PL needs 63 and redshirting.

[ngineer]

I'm trying to figure what rings he won outside of the 1993 PL Title? Ironically, Lehigh lost to Bucknell that year 32-27. Lehigh also lost to Bucknell his senior year, 1994, 31-27. His 1993 PL title team was far from a Top 25 juggernaut. They lost to Delaware 62-21, Princeton 31-23, Bucknell 32-27, Idaho 77-14. Granted, that was during the dark days of PL irrelevancy.

He acquired a number of rings as OC if I recall...

[TheValleyRaider]

If Fordham did leave (and I don't think the Rams' administration has the fortitude to do so), what would the PL do? Send up an all-points bulletin for Monmouth? Would they consider Hampton? Or would they walk along the edge at six and hope Holy Cross doesn't follow in the Rams' footsteps?

Where would HC be going? xconfusedx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

He acquired a number of rings as OC if I recall...

Yup! That's why I said he truly went Charlie Weis; i.e. an assistant coach flaunting rings to impress high school/college kids. Now Cecchini needs to land his Jimmy Clausen...

[Sader87]

Where would HC be going? xconfusedx

SEC

[DFW HOYA]

At some point, James Madison University will secure a ticket to I-A, be it Conference USA or the Sun Belt, standing alongside their in-state rival in Old Dominion. The CAA will look to fill the gap and it won't come from the NEC or the Big South. If Fordham made a play to join, they might have some support. At that point, a six team league has some hard questions ahead of it.

If you doubt that any CAA school would aspire past that league, this thought. Did they build Bridgeforth Stadium to play teams like URI and Elon?

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/pilotonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/ec/eec58e97-19b4-51f6-aa9b-4ed3013fb8ea/586fa9eb16930.image.jpg

[Fordham]

Fordham wants no part of he CAA. Our facilities are bad enough in the PL. we don’t need that spread widening so much. Plus, the school loves the affiliation with PL schools. What’s the end game in a move to the CAA?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham wants no part of he CAA. Our facilities are bad enough in the PL. we don’t need that spread widening so much. Plus, the school loves the affiliation with PL schools. What’s the end game in a move to the CAA?

I got to know Father McShane from his time at the University of Scranton. PJ Carlisimo is another U of Scranton guy I've gotten to talk with over the years. One thing I know for a fact is McShane's indifference to athletics. Fordham has established itself as the 3rd best PL program this century thanks in large part to two generational coaches and some smoke and mirrors along the way. Moving to the CAA for football would end similar to basketball in the A10. Fordham lacks the leadership to pull it off. Their incompetence running basketball might be worse than the way Temple's administration ran its football program in the Big East.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The PL presidents live in a world where, in Rev. John Brooks' own words: "We are creating a model others will follow," never mind that no one actually did.

At some point, James Madison University will secure a ticket to I-A, be it Conference USA or the Sun Belt, standing alongside their in-state rival in Old Dominion. The CAA will look to fill the gap and it won't come from the NEC or the Big South. If Fordham made a play to join, they might have some support. At that point, a six team league has some hard questions ahead of it.

If you doubt that any CAA school would aspire past that league, this thought. Did they build Bridgeforth Stadium to play teams like URI and Elon?

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/pilotonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/ec/eec58e97-19b4-51f6-aa9b-4ed3013fb8ea/586fa9eb16930.image.jpg

Bridgeforth is impressive by FCS stadium standards but it was done on the cheap. I liked Montana and Montana State's stadium more. Wasnington-Griz is a far more impressive physical structure. Princeton Stadium also blows it away.

[DFW HOYA]

I got to know Father McShane from his time at the University of Scranton. PJ Carlisimo is another U of Scranton guy I've gotten to talk with over the years. One thing I know for a fact is McShane's indifference to athletics. Fordham has established itself as the 3rd best PL program this century thanks in large part to two generational coaches and some smoke and mirrors along the way. Moving to the CAA for football would end similar to basketball in the A10. Fordham lacks the leadership to pull it off. Their incompetence running basketball might be worse than the way Temple's administration ran its football program in the Big East.

Rev. McShane turns 70 this year and has been president for 16 years. His predecessor, Rev. Joseph O'Hare, retired at 72. McShane may be indifferent but his successor may not be.

The PL leadership is not well served by an assumption that no one will ever leave.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Rev. McShane turns 70 this year and has been president for 16 years. His predecessor, Rev. Joseph O'Hare, retired at 72.

McShane may be indifferent but his successor may not be.

I think it will take a few years for McShane's people to fade out of the picture. He's done a good job of surrounding himself with people who follow his ideology and vision for academia.

[The Boogie Down]

Fordham wants no part of he CAA. Our facilities are bad enough in the PL. we don’t need that spread widening so much. Plus, the school loves the affiliation with PL schools. What’s the end game in a move to the CAA?

Yes, our facilities are bad, even for PL standards. But the announced new offices will help, assuming they get built. Throw in some other cosmetics (like chair backs throughout the grandstand, or an exterior stone facade for the grandstand, or end zone bleachers, or a second scoreboard) and we'd at least have a starting point to something. This is not the case for hoops where there is no starting point.

The end game would be joining a conference that takes FCS seriously. Not one living through past laurels while trying to maintain ties with the Ivies. As for the administration, they might love their PL affiliation but alumni doesn't. Not by a long shot. Even so, I'm not saying we're leaving the PL. Instead, I'm saying we have a better shot of joining the CAA in football (and a spot will open once JMU leaves) than we do in returning to the PL for all sports.


I think it will take a few years for McShane's people to fade out of the picture. He's done a good job of surrounding himself with people who follow his ideology and vision for academia.

Maybe, but only if the new guy (or new gal) decides not to clean house.

[TheValleyRaider]

Quick glance at PL Spring Practice from STATS: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20190301100559393602604

Per returning starters (as they have it), Lehigh has the most with 17, Colgate the fewest with 8

SP Dates:
Fordham 3/5-4/13
Holy Cross 3/12-4/13
Georgetown 3/13-4/12
Bucknell 3/19-4/16 (Spring Game April 12)
Lehigh 3/20-4/15 (Spring Game April 13)
Colgate 3/20-4/20
Lafayette 3/25-4/20

[Gate83]

I’m hearing there is a 2019 “Countdown” Clock in Villanova football locker room that says “Beat Colgate”.

Can any of you Colgate fans validate a 8/24th game vs. Nova? If so, where?

Now it's official. 8/24, in Hamilton... time TBD. Great game to start the year! https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/3/10/raiders-release-2019-football-schedule.aspx

[ngineer]

Now it's official. 8/24, in Hamilton... time TBD. Great game to start the year! https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/3/10/raiders-release-2019-football-schedule.aspx

That is one early start! Not sure I'd want to start that soon. When does practice begin?

[TheValleyRaider]

Some restructuring of the offensive staff, Hunt will call the plays. Looking for a RB coach

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/3/16/football-raiders-announce-offensive-restructuring.aspx

[ngineer]

What is it with these new "positions" of "run game coordinator", "pass game coordinator" in addition to Offensive Coordinator...plus running backs coaches, QB coaches, WR Coaches, TE coaches...I think football has gone off the deep end with analyzing it's navel..or is it just an excuse for more job creation. This is freakin' football, not some critical analysis driven effort in quantuum physics! I see Lehigh doing the same thing. I guess all the coaches went to the same 'coaches clinic' and drank the cool aid or got the same 'cliff's notes' on "How to make our jobs seem more difficult" (so we can justify more money and our existence)....rant done. I feel better.

[Gater]

What is it with these new "positions" of "run game coordinator", "pass game coordinator" in addition to Offensive Coordinator...plus running backs coaches, QB coaches, WR Coaches, TE coaches...I think football has gone off the deep end with analyzing it's navel..or is it just an excuse for more job creation. This is freakin' football, not some critical analysis driven effort in quantuum physics! I see Lehigh doing the same thing. I guess all the coaches went to the same 'coaches clinic' and drank the cool aid or got the same 'cliff's notes' on "How to make our jobs seem more difficult" (so we can justify more money and our existence)....rant done. I feel better.

Here is my two cents (having no insider knowledge whatsoever). I think Coach Hunt wanted to call plays. The OC's move to WR coach at Elon seemed a bit strange and the article about the offensive restructuring was effusive about the outgoing OC--which is pretty atypical for an article about a team's future. Since Hunt took over, Colgate's defense and special teams have gotten markedly better. Colgate used to not attempt field goals. Last year they went 15-17. Colgate used to fair catch every punt. Last year they AVERAGED over 15 yards per return. The defense ended up ranked #1 in the nation. The offense has been solid but is the place where Colgate can improve the most. Losing the top 6 receivers and one of the best RB's to play for Colgate will make that tricky to pull off this year, but the O-Line brings back four starters (one didn't play last year) and should be solid. Breneman couldn't feel his passing hand for the JMU game after getting a cortisone shot and I'm not sure it was fully recovered for North Dakota State--but he is primed to have a really solid season. Think giving coaches the added responsibility of run or pass game coordinator is a way to promote guys (while keeping them around a bit longer). It will also make it easier for Hunt to be both the OC and the head coach.

[RichH2]

Some restructuring of the offensive staff, Hunt will call the plays. Looking for a RB coach

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/3/16/football-raiders-announce-offensive-restructuring.aspx

Certainly all the rage. FCS seems to be mimicking FBS staff explosion. Just saw on scoop an SEC team is looking for a creative recruiting coordinator.ie an Art Director for team media recruiting. :)
RGC. What does he actually do that the DC and other assts cant do to put an effective run D on the field?
Ah well, Lehigh has one now so we are au courant with the new fashion. We damn well better have a much better run D.
Caveat. I think we will because of the addition of Matt Borich as the DL coach not any RGC.

[ngineer]

Certainly all the rage. FCS seems to be mimicking FBS staff explosion. Just saw on scoop an SEC team is looking for a creative recruiting coordinator.ie an Art Director for team media recruiting. :)
RGC. What does he actually do that the DC and other assts cant do to put an effective run D on the field?
Ah well, Lehigh has one now so we are au courant with the new fashion. We damn well better have a much better run D.
Caveat. I think we will because of the addition of Matt Borich as the DL coach not any RGC.

Agreed. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw Borich added to our staff. Bucknell's D has been their only redeeming quality for years. Looking forward to 4/13 and the Spring Brown & White game.

[RichH2]

Is anyone getting updates for there team's spring practice? Lehigh has had one video from 1st practice. Crickets since then

[Bill]

Is anyone getting updates for there team's spring practice? Lehigh has had one video from 1st practice. Crickets since then

Cricket?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30336&stc=1

- - - Updated - - -


Is anyone getting updates for there team's spring practice? Lehigh has had one video from 1st practice. Crickets since then

Cricket?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30336&stc=1

[DFW HOYA]

Staff updates at Georgetown:

Out:
Maurice Banks (DB coach, now LB coach at Penn)
Adam Neugebauer (QB coach, now OC at Slippery Rock)


In:
Nolan Swett (WR coach, former OC at Dickinson)
Trey Henderson (Special teams coach, formerly secondary coach at W&M)

[LU808]

I hear Lori Loughlin and her husband agreed to pay $500,000 to have their two daughters designated as football recruits to Georgetown.

[RichH2]

To be serious for a moment.
Just read that Brett Snyder passed away. Fought his disease for 15 yrs. A great football player and an even more remarkable man. He will be missed.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell (finally) unveils its schedule. Temple, Nova, Princeton, Towson and Sacred Heart in the non-con. A great schedule but sounding painful. Let's hope for some advantage in bringing a whole new look..

https://bucknellbison.com/news/2019/4/1/bucknell-football-unveils-2019-schedule.aspx

[Gangtackle11]

Bucknell (finally) unveils its schedule. Temple, Nova, Princeton, Towson and Sacred Heart in the non-con. A great schedule but sounding painful. Let's hope for some advantage in bringing a whole new look..

https://bucknellbison.com/news/2019/4/1/bucknell-football-unveils-2019-schedule.aspx



Cover your eyes at the Linc. That may be a very ugly score vs. the Owls. We’ll see ya in September! ✌️

[ngineer]

Cover your eyes at the Linc. That may be a very ugly score vs. the Owls. We’ll see ya in September! ✌️

"Ouch"

[ngineer]

To be serious for a moment.
Just read that Brett Snyder passed away. Fought his disease for 15 yrs. A great football player and an even more remarkable man. He will be missed.

yes, I heard about this late today. A date we new was coming. An amazing guy who handled his adversity with resolve and a smile. A model for us all.

[RichH2]

Gilmore completed his staff today. Brandon Lemon has joined the staff as the WR coach. He was a grad asst ( offense) at Notre Dame the last 2 years. Prior to ND he had coached WRs at New Haven and St.Lawrence. Graduated from Salisbury in 2012.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

To be serious for a moment.
Just read that Brett Snyder passed away. Fought his disease for 15 yrs. A great football player and an even more remarkable man. He will be missed.

Been super busy with the start of the golf season and just haven't had must time lately; this is very sad! He fought one helluva battle for many years! His run against Towson in 1999 was a pretty good indication of the fight and will Snyder had in him.....

[Gater]

Colgate hosting Syracuse in 2020. Colgate's first time hosting since 1897. Series tied 31-31-5.

https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2019/04/syracuse-has-a-date-for-its-first-football-game-under-the-new-carrier-dome-roof.html

(This is assuming Colgate's Hoo Doo curse is really in the Carrier Dome concrete and the new dome isn't ready...)

[Gate83]

Colgate hosting Syracuse in 2020. Colgate's first time hosting since 1897. Series tied 31-31-5.

https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2019/04/syracuse-has-a-date-for-its-first-football-game-under-the-new-carrier-dome-roof.html

(This is assuming Colgate's Hoo Doo curse is really in the Carrier Dome concrete and the new dome isn't ready...)

My first thought as well. When's the last time a construction project finished on schedule? Can't wait to see the Orange at the Kerrdome!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

My first thought as well. When's the last time a construction project finished on schedule? Can't wait to see the Orange at the Kerrdome!

Start hoping for any extra long '19-'20 winter in CNY!!

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell has announced co-captains. Punter Alex Pechin, consensus first-team All-American last season, is one of them, back for his fifth year.

Likely a vital position, admittedly.

[DFW HOYA]

My first thought as well. When's the last time a construction project finished on schedule? Can't wait to see the Orange at the Kerrdome!

We know Hamilton isn't happening. But if the House that Boeheim Built isn't ready for whatever reason, where do they go? Buffalo? The Meadowlands?

"The Patriot League: where its teams get ACC opponents, and Georgetown gets an open date with Catholic."

[ngineer]

Bucknell has announced co-captains. Punter Alex Pechin, consensus first-team All-American last season, is one of them, back for his fifth year.

Likely a vital position, admittedly.

Somewhat unusual for a 'specialist' position player to be named a captain since they don't usually "mix it up" on the field. A unique honor. Indicates his leadership from a position that is not seen as being 'out in front'.

[van]

even more unusual is a 5th year guy at Nell

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

even more unusual is a 5th year guy at Nell

He might be the first one ever.

[ngineer]

Maybe that was because he is good a 'puntificating'...

[ngineer]

Lehigh's "Brown & White" Spring Game is tomorrow at 11 a.m. in Goodman Stadium. Weather should be 'balmy'--upper 60's by start. Looking forward to seeing a 'cohesion' on the team. New leadership can/should bring an intensified attitude. Kicking/punting competiton and QBs will be the focus since you can't tell much if no 'going full' on contact. Tailgate starts at 9:30 a.m.!

[ngineer]

Lehigh 'Spring Game' was really more of situational practice. Due to the contact rules, there were a times where everything was live, but just as much or more with 'thuds' and 'touches' on the QBs. I liked the spirit exhibited. The team seems to have acclimated well to Gilmore and his revamped staff (only 4 remain from last year's staff). QB position appears totally up for grabs in August. Shoup seemed to through the nicest ball. Monaco maybe more mobile and a credible run threat. Beesemer threw a td, though the ball was behind, deflected, and the receiver made a heck of an adjustment to catch. Kicking game will be open competition as well. Devine is just as inconsistent as he has been during his time here, except then, he was the back up. We supposedly have a good freshman K/P coming in, so after what I saw, he has a shot. Weather was beautiful. Got a slight 'burn' to the arms. The field was gorgeous and the new press box is close to complete. The home side press box being renovated with an elevator and being converted into 'sky suites'. Not sure what the price will be. Also, word out that some kind of video board will be gracing the stadium somewhere in the north end zone area. Not sure if it will be affixed to the field house or positioned on the rise in the northeast corner. Supposedly, a board that can be disassembled and used in other venues as a different size. We shall 'see'...

[DFW HOYA]

Also, word out that some kind of video board will be gracing the stadium somewhere in the north end zone area. Not sure if it will be affixed to the field house or positioned on the rise in the northeast corner. Supposedly, a board that can be disassembled and used in other venues as a different size. We shall 'see'...

One example:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScjEIlXJ95n6hYew4Zw2XluuveiUgK7 hhi0m8jZHxqZpZDF4NdHg

[RichH2]

Compromise solution. Not a great one to my mind but better than what we have. Driving force ,unsurprisingly, was money and a good bit of internecine squabbling ie if they get one I want one too.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Overall, I get a good vibe out of the Lehigh camp. I think Gilmore has definitely brought some much needed fire/energy to program. I think organizationally things seem to be far more on point. Lets be honest, last year was just a mess. I think the key to making a run at the league title is the OL. The loss of the key OL assistant following the 2017 season, Coen's declining health and injuries really eroded that unit. And we all know how important a quality OL is. They recruited well (development is huge without RS) and do return some key guys from injury so there is reason to be somewhat optimistic.

The defense should be "good enough". There's certainly no offense in the PL that scares you heading into the 2019 season. The staff will help here but i'm still not convinced the Gilmore/Kashurba is the duo to turn this into a Top 25 "D" over time. I still think the DL will be a bit undersized. The secondary remains stacked with players/athletes. LB has a little more depth but still light in numbers.

[van]

can't be optimistic on the OL yet, put me in the hopeful camp

[RichH2]

Go back and forth on OL. All starters back. Both injured OTs are back. 2 very good OL recruit groups. Last year the unit was a total cluster ***** all season. Lost all OTs going into season. Linemen switched to new positions to cover injuries. New OL coach who could not mesh the unit. Unfair but that was the result. This year a new OL coach( hopefully better).I dont take much from B&W game. I note we had 2s and 3s running on OL in a mix and match throughout . Word is Brisson re opened the playbook this year. That alone makes me optimistic. We are stacked at WR and RB. No matter the QB. All he deeds to do with an open playbook is avoid mistakes and get the ball to the play makers.
I dread saying D will be good. I've said that too often over the last 5 years. On paper we can be. Morrow for a 5th is a big plus. We also get Laurencelle and Kircher back from injury. LB should be solid Hafner and Norris healthy. 2ndary is stacked and will be a force.

A real concern is P/K. We dont really have a consistent player to slide in. The incoming frosh has a big leg and rep. Fingers crossed.

[ngineer]

Go back and forth on OL. All starters back. Both injured OTs are back. 2 very good OL recruit groups. Last year the unit was a total cluster ***** all season. Lost all OTs going into season. Linemen switched to new positions to cover injuries. New OL coach who could not mesh the unit. Unfair but that was the result. This year a new OL coach( hopefully better).I dont take much from B&W game. I note we had 2s and 3s running on OL in a mix and match throughout . Word is Brisson re opened the playbook this year. That alone makes me optimistic. We are stacked at WR and RB. No matter the QB. All he deeds to do with an open playbook is avoid mistakes and get the ball to the play makers.
I dread saying D will be good. I've said that too often over the last 5 years. On paper we can be. Morrow for a 5th is a big plus. We also get Laurencelle and Kircher back from injury. LB should be solid Hafner and Norris healthy. 2ndary is stacked and will be a force.

A real concern is P/K. We dont really have a consistent player to slide in. The incoming frosh has a big leg and rep. Fingers crossed.

#1 concern for me. Shanked punts, inartfully placed kicks/punts can put a team into a quick hole. I don't care as much for a "cannon" of a leg for a PK, but I want accuracy within 40 yards. If he has a " cannon", all the much the better.

[Sader87]

HC actively shopping for an FBS QB transfer...couple of guys from BC and Wake in the mix.

[RichH2]

HC actively shopping for an FBS QB transfer...couple of guys from BC and Wake in the mix.

Ah, Fordham North :)
Makes sense tho given who Chesney has now.
I wonder if Lehigh will ever be proactive in the transfer portal.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Ah, Fordham North :)
Makes sense tho given who Chesney has now.
I wonder if Lehigh will ever be proactive in the transfer portal.

Has to be a bit concerning Chesney has been able to recruit and develop his own QB.

[Sader87]

Chesney has actually recruited very well so far from all reports....incoming frosh QB from Florida is potentially very good but obviously untested

[RichH2]

Has to be a bit concerning Chesney has been able to recruit and develop his own QB.
Apparently not this group. Happens. Chesney recruited some touted kids but for whatever reason they havent leveled up yet.

[RichH2]

Chesney has actually recruited very well so far from all reports....incoming frosh QB from Florida is potentially very good but obviously untested

We recruited him also. He has a big upside. Chesney may opt to go with him anyway if he cant get a transfer.

[Sader87]

In fairness, Chesney really has had only one full year recruiting for HC...named coach late in the recruiting process after the Gilmore fiasco late in 2017

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

In fairness, Chesney really has had only one full year recruiting for HC...named coach late in the recruiting process after the Gilmore fiasco late in 2017

Just weird given how well he has recruited overall there wasn't a QB (even a frosh) he thinks is capable of running the "O". Outside of Nebrich I can't think of another really good transfer QB. Anderson and Schwenk were solid but both battled injury woes. Georgetown's Gunther Johnson(Arizona) has had some good moments too. I think he could have a really solid 2019 season.

Outside of Colgate and Georgetown I think everyone else has some legit QB concerns. Lafayette has a full-on dumpster fire. Lehigh has an excellent set of skill guys (WR, RB, TE) but no clear cut starter at QB. I still have faith in Monaco but he's no slam dunk.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Colgate's 2020 schedule has been released-- something to chat about ?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gocolgateraiders.com/documents/2019/4/17/Future_Football_Schedules.pdf

The pattern of the types of institutions and conferences represented has become pretty consistent from year-to-year.

The 2020 schedule is one of the very few times Colgate has more home than away games. And in those prior years ( of more home games ) the opponents included the "Monmouths and CCSUs" --unlike the strong schedule in 2020. However, in the long run, "Metro-Hammytown" is and will continue to be what it is as a magnet for large crowds. A Colgate tradition is reveling in the disproportionate 'road trips' to more urbane environments such a schedule requires ( Fargo, N.D being the most recent example ). And for the serious 'gate fb aficionados, I believe the quality of the schedule trumps the number of home games.

[PAllen]

Colgate's 2020 schedule has been released-- something to chat about ?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gocolgateraiders.com/documents/2019/4/17/Future_Football_Schedules.pdf

The pattern of the types of institutions and conferences represented has become pretty consistent from year-to-year.

The 2020 schedule is one of the very few times Colgate has more home than away games. And in those prior years ( of more home games ) the opponents included the "Monmouths and CCSUs" --unlike the strong schedule in 2020. However, in the long run, "Metro-Hammytown" is and will continue to be what it is as a magnet for large crowds. A Colgate tradition is reveling in the disproportionate 'road trips' to more urbane environments such a schedule requires ( Fargo, N.D being the most recent example ). And for the serious 'gate fb aficionados, I believe the quality of the schedule trumps the number of home games.

Nothing wrong with those schedules. Certainly more exciting for the fan base than what Lehigh has been putting out.

[Sader87]

Very tough 1st 5 games for the Red Raiders this coming year...like HC, if they can "survive" they will be very battle tested for PL play

[RichH2]

NFL.
Bragalone for tryout with Giants. Saw Ives fron Colgate and TE from Fordham. Mabin from Fordham to the Raiders .Any others ?

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate's 2020 schedule has been released-- something to chat about ?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gocolgateraiders.com/documents/2019/4/17/Future_Football_Schedules.pdf

I was hoping that Cal Poly game would include a return trip. I assume we'll see W&M in Hamilton for 2021 (thought I heard it was a 3-for-1)

[RichH2]

Lehigh grad Gatlin Casey also heading to Giants next weekend.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Colgate's 6'5" wide receiver Thomas Ives signs as undrafted free agent with the Bears.

He had a good career but was dinged up a good portion of the 2018 Senior season.

https://gocolgateraiders.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9229

[Gater]

Colgate's 6'5" wide receiver Thomas Ives signs as undrafted free agent with the Bears.

He had a good career but was dinged up a good portion of the 2018 Senior season.

https://gocolgateraiders.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9229

I think Ives has a legit chance to make it. Guy caught twenty something balls his junior year and made Sports Center Top 10 twice.
Banged up senior year and then, when healthy, Colgate didn't throw the ball much.
http://www.draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1028849&DraftYear=2019

As for looking ahead, here are predictions for each team's games (based on last year's performances).
https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=1675&s=308075

If you really want to look ahead, Colgate plays at Colorado in 2027.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/colgate/
Hopefully this means Colorado comes to Hamilton in 2040.

[Fordham]

anyone else bullish on the PL for the upcoming season for the first time in a while?



Colgate has established itself as competitive with the upper tier of FCS football.
HC seems to be on a big, upward trajectory with the progress they made last year and the new staff's recruiting
I expect big improvement from Fordham and think we'll surprise. I think our D will be VERY good and if our OL develops and gels we could have a big leap forward
Lehigh and Bucknell both should see significant improvement with their new staffs imo. This one is clearly TBD but I think Gilmore will do well with all that he has to work with at Lehigh and I'm also a Cecchini (sp?) fan.
Georgetown continues to compete very well despite their limitations.
Lafayette may surprise but they're the only team that I feel like is meandering. Expected more from Garrett and his staff since taking over but maybe they'll surprise this year.


Is this just regular off season optimism or does the league seem to be moving in the right direction as a group?

[RichH2]

anyone else bullish on the PL for the upcoming season for the first time in a while?



Colgate has established itself as competitive with the upper tier of FCS football.
HC seems to be on a big, upward trajectory with the progress they made last year and the new staff's recruiting
I expect big improvement from Fordham and think we'll surprise. I think our D will be VERY good and if our OL develops and gels we could have a big leap forward
Lehigh and Bucknell both should see significant improvement with their new staffs imo. This one is clearly TBD but I think Gilmore will do well with all that he has to work with at Lehigh and I'm also a Cecchini (sp?) fan.
Georgetown continues to compete very well despite their limitations.
Lafayette may surprise but they're the only team that I feel like is meandering. Expected more from Garrett and his staff since taking over but maybe they'll surprise this year.


Is this just regular off season optimism or does the league seem to be moving in the right direction as a group?

A lot of ifs yet to be determined but overall I agree.
Gate lost a good bit of talent but Hunt has maintained the program at a high level. This is the PL . A good returning QB always gives a team a big boost here. Chesney has created the basics of an excellent team. If he finds a QB I look at them to be one of the favorites next year. I note Chesney has been bringing in FBS QBs available thru the transfer portal. One from Wake the other from BC. PL cannot afford to ignore the current availability of transfers. Lets not dawdle like we did with schollies.
Fordham is quietly rebuilding the program.A D must appear.
Dave will bring Bison an offense. Perhaps not quite enuf to offset their D but they will surprise a few. Seems they are a few years away.
Hoyas return a good QB and some talent. Enough? Depth will determine their year.
Lafayette under Garrett does seem to be stuck in neutral. A fairly solid D in spots but little depth. A 2 year starter at QB who has shown very little so far.
Lehigh lost Bragalone and Brad from their O. Otherwise Gilmore has a lot of starters and lettermen returning. New young staff will help team to get beyond last year's lost season due to Andy's illness and injuries. The talent is there. Can Tom and his staff mesh them into a team. We'll see.
PL squads have initiated changes to improve their programs.Proof will be on the field particularly in our OOC schedules.

[Gangtackle11]

A lot of ifs yet to be determined but overall I agree.
Gate lost a good bit of talent but Hunt has maintained the program at a high level. This is the PL . A good returning QB always gives a team a big boost here. Chesney has created the basics of an excellent team. If he finds a QB I look at them to be one of the favorites next year. I note Chesney has been bringing in FBS QBs available thru the transfer portal. One from Wake the other from BC. PL cannot afford to ignore the current availability of transfers. Lets not dawdle like we did with schollies.
Fordham is quietly rebuilding the program.A D must appear.
Dave will bring Bison an offense. Perhaps not quite enuf to offset their D but they will surprise a few. Seems they are a few years away.
Hoyas return a good QB and some talent. Enough? Depth will determine their year.
Lafayette under Garrett does seem to be stuck in neutral. A fairly solid D in spots but little depth. A 2 year starter at QB who has shown very little so far.
Lehigh lost Bragalone and Brad from their O. Otherwise Gilmore has a lot of starters and lettermen returning. New young staff will help team to get beyond last year's lost season due to Andy's illness and injuries. The talent is there. Can Tom and his staff mesh them into a team. We'll see.
PL squads have initiated changes to improve their programs.Proof will be on the field particularly in our OOC schedules.

Did HC land the BC QB?

[RichH2]

Did HC land the BC QB?

Not as of 1pm. :)

[PAllen]

anyone else bullish on the PL for the upcoming season for the first time in a while?



Colgate has established itself as competitive with the upper tier of FCS football.
HC seems to be on a big, upward trajectory with the progress they made last year and the new staff's recruiting
I expect big improvement from Fordham and think we'll surprise. I think our D will be VERY good and if our OL develops and gels we could have a big leap forward
Lehigh and Bucknell both should see significant improvement with their new staffs imo. This one is clearly TBD but I think Gilmore will do well with all that he has to work with at Lehigh and I'm also a Cecchini (sp?) fan.
Georgetown continues to compete very well despite their limitations.
Lafayette may surprise but they're the only team that I feel like is meandering. Expected more from Garrett and his staff since taking over but maybe they'll surprise this year.


Is this just regular off season optimism or does the league seem to be moving in the right direction as a group?

No, but it's hard to like how the neighborhood looks through your front window when your front yard is a mess.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

anyone else bullish on the PL for the upcoming season for the first time in a while?



Colgate has established itself as competitive with the upper tier of FCS football.
HC seems to be on a big, upward trajectory with the progress they made last year and the new staff's recruiting
I expect big improvement from Fordham and think we'll surprise. I think our D will be VERY good and if our OL develops and gels we could have a big leap forward
Lehigh and Bucknell both should see significant improvement with their new staffs imo. This one is clearly TBD but I think Gilmore will do well with all that he has to work with at Lehigh and I'm also a Cecchini (sp?) fan.
Georgetown continues to compete very well despite their limitations.
Lafayette may surprise but they're the only team that I feel like is meandering. Expected more from Garrett and his staff since taking over but maybe they'll surprise this year.


Is this just regular off season optimism or does the league seem to be moving in the right direction as a group?

- Colgate was hit really hard by graduation. They're a fringe Top 25 team at best heading in 2019. The reasons to like them are a proven QB and coach, some nice pieces along the OL and a dominant DL. WR, LB and secondary need major overhauls. RB has some good talent but losing a 5th year guy is a blow.
- HC needs to find a QB and consistency. They never really took off last year in Chesney's first year. Had they not mounted the crazy comeback against Georgetown it would have been a far different off season imo. There's no question there's talent on the roster. The freshman and sophomore classes were excellent. The schedule will likely beat them up. A winning season seems at best a 50/50 proposition.
- Georgetown has the potential to win 8 games with a modest schedule imo. I really like Gunther Johnson at QB and the WR's are pretty skilled. The OL was a disaster last year. If it improves I definitely think the Hoyas will post a winning record and challenge for the league title. The defense should once again be above average.
- Bucknell might improve by a game or two but overall seem destined for the battle for the basement. Their sophomore QB showed some potential last year with a limited cast around him. Dave should definitely help his development. Susan and his OC were completely lost when it came to offense. The OL might be the best in the league. The defense returns some good pieces from a unit that really was rather subpar in 2018.
-Fordham is imo the huge sleeper. Conlin has quietly stock piled talent through recruiting and transfers. Cunningham might be the best defensive player in the league. The defense must get better and a QB needs to emerge if the Rams want to have a big time turn around. Fordham is loaded at RB.
-Lafayette appears to be a complete dumpster fire at this point. Garrett seems committed to O'Malley at QB heading into fall camp which has to a be a concern. The OL still has several marks after camp. The defense has some good pieces but not enough to overcome an inept offense.
- Lehigh seems well positioned to make a run a winning record and maybe the league title if the new staff is up to the task. The schedule isn't easy nor is it murderers row. The last two years were really tough given Coen's health situation. Gilmore has an offense loaded at the skill positions. The OL must be more cohesive and a QB needs to emerge. The defense will be better by default. The DL is still undersized but the secondary might be the best in league. LB's are solid but still a little on the small size.

Right now I'd go
1. Colgate
2. Georgetown
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh/Fordham

6. Bucknell
7. Lafayette

I think any of the top 5 teams can win it this year. Heading into the season I don't see any team that seems destined for a Top 15 ranking and a playoff run but that could change. On the positive side of things I'll be shocked if the league has less than 3 teams with a winning record this year. This is after having a pathetic 1 each (Colgate) the last two years.

[RichH2]

- Colgate was hit really hard by graduation. They're a fringe Top 25 team at best heading in 2019. The reasons to like them are a proven QB and coach, some nice pieces along the OL and a dominant DL. WR, LB and secondary need major overhauls. RB has some good talent but losing a 5th year guy is a blow.
- HC needs to find a QB and consistency. They never really took off last year in Chesney's first year. Had they not mounted the crazy comeback against Georgetown it would have been a far different off season imo. There's no question there's talent on the roster. The freshman and sophomore classes were excellent. The schedule will likely beat them up. A winning season seems at best a 50/50 proposition.
- Georgetown has the potential to win 8 games with a modest schedule imo. I really like Gunther Johnson at QB and the WR's are pretty skilled. The OL was a disaster last year. If it improves I definitely think the Hoyas will post a winning record and challenge for the league title. The defense should once again be above average.
- Bucknell might improve by a game or two but overall seem destined for the battle for the basement. Their sophomore QB showed some potential last year with a limited cast around him. Dave should definitely help his development. Susan and his OC were completely lost when it came to offense. The OL might be the best in the league. The defense returns some good pieces from a unit that really was rather subpar in 2018.
-Fordham is imo the huge sleeper. Conlin has quietly stock piled talent through recruiting and transfers. Cunningham might be the best defensive player in the league. The defense must get better and a QB needs to emerge if the Rams want to have a big time turn around. Fordham is loaded at RB.
-Lafayette appears to be a complete dumpster fire at this point. Garrett seems committed to O'Malley at QB heading into fall camp which has to a be a concern. The OL still has several marks after camp. The defense has some good pieces but not enough to overcome an inept offense.
- Lehigh seems well positioned to make a run a winning record and maybe the league title if the new staff is up to the task. The schedule isn't easy nor is it murderers row. The last two years were really tough given Coen's health situation. Gilmore has an offense loaded at the skill positions. The OL must be more cohesive and a QB needs to emerge. The defense will be better by default. The DL is still undersized but the secondary might be the best in league. LB's are solid but still a little on the small size.

Right now I'd go
1. Colgate
2. Georgetown
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh/Fordham

6. Bucknell
7. Lafayette

I think any of the top 5 teams can win it this year. Heading into the season I don't see any team that seems destined for a Top 15 ranking and a playoff run but that could change. On the positive side of things I'll be shocked if the league has less than 3 teams with a winning record this year. This is after having a pathetic 1 each (Colgate) the last two years.
Nationally I agree PL not yet ready to be more than a 1st round out. Hope I'm wrong. 3 to 5 teams with winning records seems very possible.

[The Boogie Down]

-Fordham is imo the huge sleeper. Conlin has quietly stock piled talent through recruiting and transfers. Cunningham might be the best defensive player in the league. The defense must get better and a QB needs to emerge if the Rams want to have a big time turn around. Fordham is loaded at RB.

Right now I'd go
1. Colgate
2. Georgetown
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh/Fordham

6. Bucknell
7. Lafayette

I think any of the top 5 teams can win it this year. Heading into the season I don't see any team that seems destined for a Top 15 ranking and a playoff run but that could change. On the positive side of things I'll be shocked if the league has less than 3 teams with a winning record this year. This is after having a pathetic 1 each (Colgate) the last two years.

I don't disagree with your "way too early" projection but I'm wondering where the Fordham optimism is coming from? I'm not aware of any transfers and I'm not at all sure how we're loaded at RB. Lots of RB's and lots of good (or even ONE good) RB's are different things. I do think Cunningham might be the PL's best defensive player not on Lafayette and that our overall D will improve but the O line and lack of any WR's (and, like I've already said, a good RB) is worrisome. Conversely, I do feel good about having Demorat at QB. Kid has an arm, can scramble and seemed like a good leader. Aside from Mike Nebrich, I can't think of a single Fordham QB who could have done better while still a true freshman. I do expect him to get better as a sophomore but not at all sure about the rest of the offense.

[Fordham]

I don't disagree with your "way too early" projection but I'm wondering where the Fordham optimism is coming from? I'm not aware of any transfers and I'm not at all sure how we're loaded at RB. Lots of RB's and lots of good (or even ONE good) RB's are different things. I do think Cunningham might be the PL's best defensive player not on Lafayette and that our overall D will improve but the O line and lack of any WR's (and, like I've already said, a good RB) is worrisome. Conversely, I do feel good about having Demorat at QB. Kid has an arm, can scramble and seemed like a good leader. Aside from Mike Nebrich, I can't think of a single Fordham QB who could have done better while still a true freshman. I do expect him to get better as a sophomore but not at all sure about the rest of the offense.

Rave reviews for Rutgers transfer RB Trey Sneed following spring ball. He's a bruiser and a perfect fit for Conlin's offense. Zach Davis also back from injury so they should be a great 1 - 2 punch imo to go with Demorat. Agreed that the OL is what it all comes down to. Conlin needs a good one in order to run his O so the whole thing will come down to that imo.

On D we have a JuCo transfer NT Jonathan Coste. At 6'3 300lb he gives us size in the middle that we haven't had before. Cunningham and Greenhagen were both freshmen All Americans and give us a vicious LB crew. For the first time that I can remember at Fordham I do think our D will dictate games and certainly be the better of the 2.

Anyway, no slam dunk but two transfers that it sounds like you may not have been aware of and certainly reason for optimism imo. So much of it just comes down to how well our OL can come together.

[crusader11]

Apparently not this group. Happens. Chesney recruited some touted kids but for whatever reason they havent leveled up yet.

What do you mean? This is his second season as head coach and really the first in which he was able to bring in a class that are exclusively his guys. How could we possibly know that these kids haven't "leveled up"?

[RichH2]

Sorry. Brain spasm. Meant has some.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

This is Dan Hunt's recap of the 'Gate team, post Spring ball.

I'm not comfortable playing the role of a "homer" predicting the 2019 team dominates the PL when there are so many unanswered questions. But, I do feel comfortable echoing Hunt's optimism about QB, the offensive line, the two experienced tight ends and a couple of credentialed stars on the D, notably Swaray and Wheeler. My humble opinions on the other position areas as well as whether/how eveything can congeal are in the "wait and see" mode. This team doesn't have the proven resources that the 2018 team had at this time last year.

I don't know if 'gate should be the PL favorite out of the gate ( no pun intended ). Perhaps by default ?

I'm most interested in whether this year's iteration of Gate football can maintain the culture and cachet of success that has been building throughout the Hunt era. Can the distinction the Program currently has be sustained by a 2019 team that's likely to be "just OK." This is a team that most likely won't replicate last years performance and is destined to perform, as the season wears on, without the confidence and swagger that the 2018 team earned ??

Spring Football Recap: Defensive Line (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/2/spring-football-recap-defensive-line.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Linebackers (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/3/spring-football-recap-linebackers.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Secondary (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/6/spring-football-recap-secondary.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Offensive Line (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/9/spring-football-recap-offensive-line.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Receivers & Tight Ends (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/8/spring-football-recap-receivers-tight-ends.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Running Backs (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/7/spring-football-recap-running-backs.aspx?path=football)

Spring Football Recap: Quarterbacks (https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/10/spring-football-recap-quarterbacks.aspx?path=football)

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2019/5/12/spring-football-recap-special-teams.aspx

[RichH2]

Thanks Redux. Envious of the communication that Hunt gives the fans. At Lehigh we get little disjointed snippets of information, if anything at all. Mostly coachspeak.

[the last indian]

Thanks Redux. Envious of the communication that Hunt gives the fans. At Lehigh we get little disjointed snippets of information, if anything at all. Mostly coachspeak.

Well, from Coach Biddle, we were lucky to get a grunt. But we didn't complain much about his record.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Well, from Coach Biddle, we were lucky to get a grunt. But we didn't complain much about his record.

How was Breneman looking during spring practice? Does he have his fast ball back? No question his arm strength was compromised at the end of last season.

[The Boogie Down]

Rave reviews for Rutgers transfer RB Trey Sneed following spring ball. He's a bruiser and a perfect fit for Conlin's offense. Zach Davis also back from injury so they should be a great 1 - 2 punch imo to go with Demorat. Agreed that the OL is what it all comes down to. Conlin needs a good one in order to run his O so the whole thing will come down to that imo.

On D we have a JuCo transfer NT Jonathan Coste. At 6'3 300lb he gives us size in the middle that we haven't had before. Cunningham and Greenhagen were both freshmen All Americans and give us a vicious LB crew. For the first time that I can remember at Fordham I do think our D will dictate games and certainly be the better of the 2.

Anyway, no slam dunk but two transfers that it sounds like you may not have been aware of and certainly reason for optimism imo. So much of it just comes down to how well our OL can come together.

Thanks for update. Let me add Fotis Kokosioulis to the mix. The former Northern Illinois WR had 9 catches for 151 yards as a true freshman last season and comes to us with 3 years of eligibility left.

Oh and yeah I do agree that unless the OL is vastly improved, the D side should be the stronger one this season. This is hardly ever the case at Fordham but if you're old enough then you should remember Mark Blazejewski and the incredible D's Fordham had in the early '90s. Unfortunately, the O was always just a tad bit worse than the D was great so those teams never won. Alotta close game though and the other team's O always felt it whenever Blaze was making hits!

[RichH2]

Street & Smith is out. Picks Gate for #11.

[PAllen]

Street & Smith is out. Picks Gate for #11.

Way too high IMHO, but then again, preseason polls are nothing but beauty pageants.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Street & Smith is out. Picks Gate for #11.

#11 is comical given what they lost.

[van]

11 probably too high but a healthy Breneman can carry them pretty far

[RichH2]

Their PL prediction:
1. Colgate
2. Holy Cross
3. Hoyas
4.Fordham
5. Lafayette
6. Lehigh
7. Bucknell

[DFW HOYA]

Their PL prediction:
1. Colgate
2. Holy Cross
3. Hoyas
4.Fordham
5. Lafayette
6. Lehigh
7. Bucknell

S&S really went out on a limb, didn't they? Here's the 2018 finish:

1. Colgate
2T: Holy Cross
2T: Georgetown
4T: Fordham
4T: Lafayette
4T: Lehigh
7. Bucknell

[CFBfan]

11 probably too high but a healthy Breneman can carry them pretty far

so amusing to see LU homers trash Gate's preseason after years of them whining about their under achieving team not getting ranked high enough based on getting blown out in early playoff rounds

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

so amusing to see LU homers trash Gate's preseason after years of them whining about their under achieving team not getting ranked high enough based on getting blown out in early playoff rounds

lol...not even close.

Same Lehigh fans were speaking extremely highly of Colgate last year. This particular one traveled to Hamilton to cheer 'Gate on against JMU. There's a difference between earned respect and getting respect because people fail to do research. Colgate in the 18-25 range would seem reasonable. However, to have them as a fringe Top 10 team (basically as good as last year) is absurd imo.

Lehigh had two ugly playoff appearances recently, outside of that quite good. As a result the only year your theory would apply would be 2017. Going back in time I don't think any Lehigh fans were pining for a Top 15 ranking given the state of the defense and Folmar moving to Elon. Ironically, Colgate also lost their OC to Elon.

I think preseason polls should be based on where you think teams will finish. That's what ultimately matters imo. That's how I do my AGS preseason poll.

[Gate83]

lol...not even close.

Same Lehigh fans were speaking extremely highly of Colgate last year. This particular one traveled to Hamilton to cheer 'Gate on against JMU. There's a difference between earned respect and getting respect because people fail to do research. Colgate in the 18-25 range would seem reasonable. However, to have them as a fringe Top 10 team (basically as good as last year) is absurd imo.

Lehigh had two ugly playoff appearances recently, outside of that quite good. As a result the only year your theory would apply would be 2017. Going back in time I don't think any Lehigh fans were pining for a Top 15 ranking given the state of the defense and Folmar moving to Elon. Ironically, Colgate also lost their OC to Elon.

I think preseason polls should be based on where you think teams will finish. That's what ultimately matters imo. That's how I do my AGS preseason poll.

11 is way too high, no receivers, no linebackers, no secondary... I consider the revitalized Crusaders the league favorites and just hope we can compete! One quibble, my understanding is Coach Young wasn't really "lost" to Elon. That was more a "mutual parting of the ways" that was likely good for all involved.

[RichH2]

Holy Cross?? Chesney has created the buzz and perhaps the culture. For now that is enough to be a contender. Will he have a QB and if so will that QB have a running attack.
Fordham? Another program on the rise. They may have the QB and a RB. Ah, but will they have an OL. D has some very good pieces but enough of them?
Hoyas have the QB and a solid D.They also return the entire OL albeit it was weak last year.
Lafayette has some real talent on O and D. A veteran QB if not a very productive one. Pards gained yardage but couldnt score. Pards are saddled with a decade long losing culture and a HC who seems incapable of retaining coordinators or assts or fielding a coherent offense.
Colgate has the culture of winning, an excellent QB with talent both on O and D. They lose a lot coming into this season.
Lehigh? Lost its QB and best ever RB. They retain the worst D in the PL.That said they return a stable of excellent RBs and WRs and a healthy OL. D likewise returns starters at every position and a new staff. A lot of individual talent that needs to be molded into a unit. We'll see.
Bucknell? Not much to see here yet. Ceech will field a novelty for Bucknell. An offense. He has a potential QB and some skills at WR. Bison may not win much but they will be exciting.

[Gate83]

Kidding around w/ the Cross comment, I know we'll go in as the favorite. Hope our typically aggressive OOC schedule doesn't ding us up too much & we'll see... chatted briefly w/ Coach Hunt at a Gate athletics event a couple of weeks ago, he feels very good about the team coming out of the spring. I'll take his word for it!

[DFW HOYA]

No idea on how the Hoyas finish--this was the 11th ranked defense in I-AA and the 121st ranked offense. In the last 20 years, just two Georgetown backs have rushed for as many as 800 yards in a season.

[RichH2]

No idea on how the Hoyas finish--this was the 11th ranked defense in I-AA and the 121st ranked offense. In the last 20 years, just two Georgetown backs have rushed for as many as 800 yards in a season.
Hoyas have a QB and some pretty good skills on O. Key is your OL all returning.Veteran units, no matter individual talent, will normally improve. I expect yours will. Unit may not be dominant but it could be adequate enough. also, Hoyas last 2 recruiting classes have been very good if not real deep.

[RichH2]

Rumor on Cross board is that Chesney got a transfer QB.
Matt Considine from Wake. 6'6 210 redshirt frosh. Did get into 2 games last year for very little PT. He came from a tiny private school St.Joseph Acad and had great stats. Not on any A-S teams that I could find. My guess a PWO. Strong arm.Did not see much else in his hudl video. He still may be a better option than anyone Chesney has.

[PAllen]

Rumor on Cross board is that Chesney got a transfer QB.
Matt Considine from Wake. 6'6 210 redshirt frosh. Did get into 2 games last year for very little PT. He came from a tiny private school St.Joseph Acad and had great stats. Not on any A-S teams that I could find. My guess a PWO. Strong arm.Did not see much else in his hudl video. He still may be a better option than anyone Chesney has.

Seems like a smart kid who got into Wake and wanted to keep playing football. Not sure if HC offered him, but my guess is the scholarship money and approx. equal academic standing made the move. If so, that's why we wanted scholarships right?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lindy's Picks...

1. Colgate
2. Holy Cross
3. Lehigh
4. Lafayette
5. Georgetown
6. Fordham
7. Bucknell

[DFW HOYA]

Is the Patriot League heading for a repeat of 2018; namely, too many teams teams overschedule in September and end up at or below .500 in November?

Below are the first three weeks of six schools--Georgetown's attempts to find opponents isn't worth the discussion here. Realistically, how many of these teams will be staring at 0-3 or 1-2 in week four?

Bucknell
at Temple
at Sacred Heart
Villanova

Colgate
Villanova
at Air Force
at William & Mary

Fordham:
Central Connecticut
at Ball St.
at Bryant

Holy Cross:
at Navy
New Hampshire
at Yale

Lafayette:
at William & Mary
at Monmouth
Sacred Heart

Lehigh:
St. Francis
at Villanova
at UC Davis

[van]

1-2 will probably be a popular record and 0-3 very possible for some

[PAllen]

Nothing wrong with testing yourself against good competition. It sure as heck beats hiding behind a bunch of nobodies.

[DFW HOYA]

Nothing wrong with testing yourself against good competition. It sure as heck beats hiding behind a bunch of nobodies.

Of course, if nobodies are all you get, you take it.

[PAllen]

Of course, if nobodies are all you get, you take it.

I wasn't picking on Georgetown. I was commenting on the desire of some to schedule down to pad the win column.

[ngineer]

Rave reviews for Rutgers transfer RB Trey Sneed following spring ball. He's a bruiser and a perfect fit for Conlin's offense. Zach Davis also back from injury so they should be a great 1 - 2 punch imo to go with Demorat. Agreed that the OL is what it all comes down to. Conlin needs a good one in order to run his O so the whole thing will come down to that imo.

On D we have a JuCo transfer NT Jonathan Coste. At 6'3 300lb he gives us size in the middle that we haven't had before. Cunningham and Greenhagen were both freshmen All Americans and give us a vicious LB crew. For the first time that I can remember at Fordham I do think our D will dictate games and certainly be the better of the 2.

Anyway, no slam dunk but two transfers that it sounds like you may not have been aware of and certainly reason for optimism imo. So much of it just comes down to how well our OL can come together.

That's always it. Lehigh with Bragalone couldn't get it done last year without a decent OL that lost three starters before camp broke. If you have a great OL, you only need 'decent' RBs.

[ngineer]

S&S really went out on a limb, didn't they? Here's the 2018 finish:

1. Colgate
2T: Holy Cross
2T: Georgetown
4T: Fordham
4T: Lafayette
4T: Lehigh
7. Bucknell

xnodxxlolxxthumbsupxxbowxxsmileyclapxxscanxxchinsc ratchxxhurrayxxbandwagonxxlmaoxx406xxdizzyx

[ngineer]

Is the Patriot League heading for a repeat of 2018; namely, too many teams teams overschedule in September and end up at or below .500 in November?

Below are the first three weeks of six schools--Georgetown's attempts to find opponents isn't worth the discussion here. Realistically, how many of these teams will be staring at 0-3 or 1-2 in week four?

Bucknell
at Temple
at Sacred Heart
Villanova

Colgate
Villanova
at Air Force
at William & Mary

Fordham:
Central Connecticut
at Ball St.
at Bryant

Holy Cross:
at Navy
New Hampshire
at Yale

Lafayette:
at William & Mary
at Monmouth
Sacred Heart

Lehigh:
St. Francis
at Villanova
at UC Davis

Fordham the only school with a strong expectation of a winning record for the first three. 'gate could

[Gater]

Colgate first five for '19 are 'Nova, Air Force, Bill and Mary, Maine, and Dartmouth. Currently favored in the three CAA games but not against Air Force and Dartmouth. 2020 just got tougher with Western Michigan replacing Cal Poly. Colgate will start at Western Michigan, Bill and Mary, Syracuse before hosting New Hampshire. I'm a big fan of these types of schedules. Think most Colgate fans would agree.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate first five for '19 are 'Nova, Air Force, Bill and Mary, Maine, and Dartmouth. Currently favored in the three CAA games but not against Air Force and Dartmouth. 2020 just got tougher with Western Michigan replacing Cal Poly. Colgate will start at Western Michigan, Bill and Mary, Syracuse before hosting New Hampshire. I'm a big fan of these types of schedules. Think most Colgate fans would agree.

Be interesting to see how these schedules play out in time. Last year's Colgate schedule looked extremely tough heading into the season. However, as the season played it the schedule turned out to be extremely weak outside of Army. With that said, hopefully for Colgate's sake they can field teams year in and year out to compete with schedules of that caliber.

Anyone can schedule tough. What's impressive is being able to win the games you schedule. I'm not impressed by Syracuse paying the Raiders or the Crusaders to come to the Dome to lose by 4+ TDs.

[PAllen]

Be interesting to see how these schedules play out in time. Last year's Colgate schedule looked extremely tough heading into the season. However, as the season played it the schedule turned out to be extremely weak outside of Army. With that said, hopefully for Colgate's sake they can field teams year in and year out to compete with schedules of that caliber.

Anyone can schedule tough. What's impressive is being able to win the games you schedule. I'm not impressed by Syracuse paying the Raiders or the Crusaders to come to the Dome to lose by 4+ TDs.

I would gladly go to Rutgers for the same beating.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would gladly go to Rutgers for the same beating.

To see Lehigh lose by 4 TD's to a terrible Big 10 team in front of a half empty stadium (if they're lucky) excites you?!? Yuck. If Lehigh gets their act together then I'm all for a game against Rutgers. But only if there's a legit change to compete and maybe even win.

[CHIP72]

I would gladly go to Rutgers for the same beating.

I’d gladly go to Rutgers (when a team I root for is playing there) to make fun of Rutgers. (I may have a date at Rutgers in 2021.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PAllen]

To see Lehigh lose by 4 TD's to a terrible Big 10 team in front of a half empty stadium (if they're lucky) excites you?!? Yuck. If Lehigh gets their act together then I'm all for a game against Rutgers. But only if there's a legit change to compete and maybe even win.

Rather than see them in yet another yawner against an NEC or Pioneer team in a 80% empty Goodman? Yeah, in a heartbeat.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Rather than see them in yet another yawner against an NEC or Pioneer team in a 80% empty Goodman? Yeah, in a heartbeat.

And to the Rutger faithful Lehigh would be another FCS yawner in front of 1,000s of empty seats. It's a slippery slopes with two side of the story.

[PAllen]

And to the Rutger faithful Lehigh would be another FCS yawner in front of 1,000s of empty seats. It's a slippery slopes with two side of the story.

That's not what slippery slope means. Besides, who cares if the Rutgers fans don't like the matchup? I'm a huge fan of playing "up" whenever possible. I'm a huge opponent of playing "down" except when absolutely necessary. FBS schools play "down" to bilk their season ticket holders out of another game's worth of ticket prices. That's why I don't, and probably never will have season tickets to a big time school. I hate it when Lehigh plays Butler. I hate it when Purdue plays Indiana State. The fact of the matter is, FBS games are there to be had and can be a tremendous experience for the team and the fan base. Pioneer and D-II games are there to be had as well, but they are losers for everyone but the visiting team. The same used to be true of the NEC, but we (as a league) gave them all kinds of exposure. They took advantage of it and now they've surpassed us.

Which would you rather have, a 5-6 league champion with losses to Syracuse, Navy, and a few Ivy and CAA schools, or an 8-3 league champ with losses to Ivy schools and wins over 3 Pioneer league schools?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's not what slippery slope means. Besides, who cares if the Rutgers fans don't like the matchup? I'm a huge fan of playing "up" whenever possible. I'm a huge opponent of playing "down" except when absolutely necessary. FBS schools play "down" to bilk their season ticket holders out of another game's worth of ticket prices. That's why I don't, and probably never will have season tickets to a big time school. I hate it when Lehigh plays Butler. I hate it when Purdue plays Indiana State. The fact of the matter is, FBS games are there to be had and can be a tremendous experience for the team and the fan base. Pioneer and D-II games are there to be had as well, but they are losers for everyone but the visiting team. The same used to be true of the NEC, but we (as a league) gave them all kinds of exposure. They took advantage of it and now they've surpassed us.

Which would you rather have, a 5-6 league champion with losses to Syracuse, Navy, and a few Ivy and CAA schools, or an 8-3 league champ with losses to Ivy schools and wins over 3 Pioneer league schools?

It is a slippery slope because there's always one side that's not happy usually when it comes to scheduling some of these FBS games. Trying to find a balance is not easy. I'm actually for a game against Rutgers but only if the game will be competitive. Which it SHOULD be if Lehigh turns it around. The Mountain Hawks have a much better chance to get back to Top 25 form in the next 5 years than Rutgers does of recapturing the Schiano glory. I think Colgate would have beaten them by 2 TDs last year. Princeton might have beat them worse than that.

Much rather 8-3 winning record! 2017 Lehigh and 2013 winning the league with a losing record was a huge embarrassment for both those teams and the league. The amount of respect the league lost with that happening still lingers. Likewise with the league getting destroyed in OOC play the last 2 years. One team out of seven with a winning record in back-2-back years? That's historically inept. Getting 8 wins against peer FCS competition is nothing to sneeze upon. You seem to look down upon the NEC and Ivies. I do not. I think it's foolish to do so. Just like I think it's foolish for CAA people to look down at the PL. Yes the CAA is better but that only matters to a certain extent. Duquesne took care of Towson last year in the playoffs last year, CCSU nearly took out UNH the year before. IMO, the Ivy League has become one of the top 4 leagues in FCS. I love games against IL competition.

I agree that Pioneer games are not interesting. But Lehigh rarely if ever plays teams from that conference. Lehigh plays solid schedules. It's just a lot of the same regional foes. This year they face the toughest OOC FCS game in the PL, @ UC-Davis. The Aggies might be better than 1/2 of FBS this year.

[RichH2]

Well I imagine there is a middle ground between owl and PAllen. Since we've discussed this on multiple threads over many years, I see little reason to restart the conversation yet again. Joe wont change much in his philosophy, so I vote for interesting and competitive.
Can TG get this program competitive again? That is my issue. If recruiting is any indicator, TG and staff are very focused and energetic. TG has spent most of the past month on the road. New England, NJ, Pa and Ga.
He has instituted a number of new rules to change the culture. All players have to sign up for a meal plan. Also, the entire team must be back on campus in June for Summer workouts as opposed to the voluntary turnout of 40-50 guys in prior years.
Hopefully, changes will serve us well.
Also, Alex Motley was finally cleared to play a few days ago.

[CHIP72]

That's not what slippery slope means. Besides, who cares if the Rutgers fans don't like the matchup? I'm a huge fan of playing "up" whenever possible. I'm a huge opponent of playing "down" except when absolutely necessary. FBS schools play "down" to bilk their season ticket holders out of another game's worth of ticket prices. That's why I don't, and probably never will have season tickets to a big time school. I hate it when Lehigh plays Butler. I hate it when Purdue plays Indiana State. The fact of the matter is, FBS games are there to be had and can be a tremendous experience for the team and the fan base. Pioneer and D-II games are there to be had as well, but they are losers for everyone but the visiting team. The same used to be true of the NEC, but we (as a league) gave them all kinds of exposure. They took advantage of it and now they've surpassed us.

Which would you rather have, a 5-6 league champion with losses to Syracuse, Navy, and a few Ivy and CAA schools, or an 8-3 league champ with losses to Ivy schools and wins over 3 Pioneer league schools?

Just to play devil's advocate (and you've already hinted at this in your comments above), but isn't Lehigh's "playing up" game another team's (a DI-A/FBS team's) "playing down" game? Sure, it is great for the Mountain Hawks to play games against better opponents if they can be reasonably competitive. (If they aren't, that's another story - Exhibit A would be last year's game at Navy, most of which I attended in person.) But are such games great for Rutgers, or Navy, or other DI-A/FBS teams? The Midshipmen easily defeated Lehigh last season, yet IIRC went 3-9 on the season, their worst season in years.

Staying in the Patriot League, but flipping the perspective in a way GLTUOwl and I would appreciate, this season Temple opens the season with Bucknell. The Owls are a somewhat unknown quantity this year with a new coach, but have finished at .500 or better in each of the last five seasons and probably will be competitive in their conference, the AAC, again this season. Meanwhile the Bison will probably be one of the worst teams in the Patriot League. Is Temple squashing Bucknell really good for Temple? It beats losing to Villanova last season or Fordham in 2013, but Temple probably won't get much out of the game, much like they got little out of beating Delaware State 59-0 (a game that was 49-0 at halftime) in 2014. Such games also hold little interest for Temple (or other DI-A/FBS team) fans unless the DI-AA/FCS team can be considered a rival (and the Temple/Villanova rivalry dynamic is unique or almost unique in DI-A/FBS vs DI-AA/FCS matchups). Likewise, is Temple squashing Bucknell really good for Bucknell? They get a paycheck and their players will get to play in a nice stadium used by an NFL team, but how does getting crushed by a DI-A/FBS team help a struggling DI-AA/FCS program like Bucknell?

Having Lehigh play say Marist, another Pioneer League team, or a D2 team may not excite Lehigh fans, but it is exactly analogous to having Navy or Rutgers or Temple or Army playing Lehigh or another Patriot League team from a Navy/Rutgers/Temple/Army fan's point of view.

[PAllen]

Just to play devil's advocate (and you've already hinted at this in your comments above), but isn't Lehigh's "playing up" game another team's (a DI-A/FBS team's) "playing down" game? Sure, it is great for the Mountain Hawks to play games against better opponents if they can be reasonably competitive. (If they aren't, that's another story - Exhibit A would be last year's game at Navy, most of which I attended in person.) But are such games great for Rutgers, or Navy, or other DI-A/FBS teams? The Midshipmen easily defeated Lehigh last season, yet IIRC went 3-9 on the season, their worst season in years.

Staying in the Patriot League, but flipping the perspective in a way GLTUOwl and I would appreciate, this season Temple opens the season with Bucknell. The Owls are a somewhat unknown quantity this year with a new coach, but have finished at .500 or better in each of the last five seasons and probably will be competitive in their conference, the AAC, again this season. Meanwhile the Bison will probably be one of the worst teams in the Patriot League. Is Temple squashing Bucknell really good for Temple? It beats losing to Villanova last season or Fordham in 2013, but Temple probably won't get much out of the game, much like they got little out of beating Delaware State 59-0 (a game that was 49-0 at halftime) in 2014. Such games also hold little interest for Temple (or other DI-A/FBS team) fans unless the DI-AA/FCS team can be considered a rival (and the Temple/Villanova rivalry dynamic is unique or almost unique in DI-A/FBS vs DI-AA/FCS matchups). Likewise, is Temple squashing Bucknell really good for Bucknell? They get a paycheck and their players will get to play in a nice stadium used by an NFL team, but how does getting crushed by a DI-A/FBS team help a struggling DI-AA/FCS program like Bucknell?

Having Lehigh play say Marist, another Pioneer League team, or a D2 team may not excite Lehigh fans, but it is exactly analogous to having Navy or Rutgers or Temple or Army playing Lehigh or another Patriot League team from a Navy/Rutgers/Temple/Army fan's point of view.

I don't disagree and of course my statement above was playing a bit of a worst case scenario. I don't think that Lehigh should be playing multiple FBS teams every year. However, if you want to revitalize the program, then yes, we need to start playing recognizable teams. I totally get that FBS fanbases should hate playing us just as we should hate playing teams below us. I would like us to be on par, if not slightly ahead of the Ivy. Once upon a time, we were. I hate the fact that we have now sunk to a place where CCSU, Monmouth, and Marist can be considered peers.

As far as what does playing up do for the team? In 20 years ask R. Allen what his greatest memories of football at Lehigh is. I wager that one of his top five, if not his top is silencing the Midshipmen with that long TD run to answer the opening score by Navy. It sure as heck won't be anything he does against St. Francis or Merrimack.

One final point. Don't have enough money in the coffers to bid for a home playoff game? A single game against Army, Navy, Cuse, Rutgers, BC, Buffalo, UConn, UMass... Takes care of that.

[van]

see nothing wrong with playing a single FBS game against the likes of Rutgers, Army, Navy UCon, UMass or Temple nor with an occasional game against a regional Pioneer or school moving up like LIU, to me these make more sense than traveling to CA (no idea the strategy behind that one

[RichH2]

see nothing wrong with playing a single FBS game against the likes of Rutgers, Army, Navy UCon, UMass or Temple nor with an occasional game against a regional Pioneer or school moving up like LIU, to me these make more sense than traveling to CA (no idea the strategy behind that one

More of a University angle. I think. LU has opened a student recruiting office in Cal. Push to expand our reach to Cal.

[PAllen]

More of a University angle. I think. LU has opened a student recruiting office in Cal. Push to expand our reach to Cal.

Are we back to Likins' dream of a "national university in the mold of some of the best state schools in the country". (Yes, he said that)

[RichH2]

Are we back to Likins' dream of a "national university in the mold of some of the best state schools in the country". (Yes, he said that)

I dont get thst impression. Lehigh opened a Western Regional office with NASDAQ in Foster Cal. Partly for recruiting but more for business contacts and Silicon Valley.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

....However, if you want to revitalize the program, then yes, we need to start playing recognizable teams.


As with most good things, there's a catch. If the FBS "recognizable teams" consistently blow out a particular PL school, the allure of "scheduling up" loses some of its sheen for alums, the players and recruits as well as the broader school community. The three PL schools ( Fordham, Colgate, Holy Cross ) that have been "FBS-scheduling up" seem to have different "strategies" and are at different stages of their roll out.

TBD... what magnitude of individual losses ( and at what consistency ) will undermine the benefits of scheduling up ? While the HC alums loved the BC game, one has to question how many years of 62-14 blowouts it will take to dent this current fascination ?

I respect Joe Sterret's restraint. Rebuilding the program to become reasonable competition should precede up-scheduling. In contrast, HC, sporting below .500 seasons ( against lesser completion ) for most of the past decade, has a different approach. They scheduled both Navy and Syracuse for the 2019 season. With a new coach, they are capitalizing on a window ( pehaps it's an allusion of a turnaround ) within which they can aggressively recruit. Dangling hot schedules while not being able to confirm that they've substantively changed the ingredients of better performance is a big bet. This is not merely a chicken-egg phenom. Is there really confidence that they'll be granted the time for their FBS results to distance the program from their decade of dismal performance ? Hype can only carry a program for a finite period, if not accompanied by results.

[DFW HOYA]

For those who still remember this, the west side of Georgetown's Cooper Field was torn down in June 2018 to begin construction on a project first proposed in 1999 and which construction was halted in 2005. The idea was that construction and seating would be complete by the start of the 2019 season.

Having visited the campus for my class reunion this past weekend, after 12 months the prognosis is not a good one.

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_401.jpg
http://www,hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_401.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

For those who still remember this, the west side of Georgetown's Cooper Field was torn down in June 2018 to begin construction on a project first proposed in 1999 and which construction was halted in 2005. The idea was that construction and seating would be complete by the start of the 2019 season.

Having visited the campus for my class reunion this past weekend, after 12 months the prognosis is not a good one.

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_401.jpg
http://www,hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/msf_401.jpg

Still 3 months until the season starts. It's not like their building some grand structure. Have faith. 7 wins and a more or less completed stadium are my calls.

[DFW HOYA]

Still 3 months until the season starts. It's not like their building some grand structure. Have faith. 7 wins and a more or less completed stadium are my calls.

What was promised (this time, anyway):

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

[CHIP72]

What was promised (this time, anyway):

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

Why does Georgetown only want to have seats on one side of the field? I realize the sun is an issue with the current east stands, but that kind of issue comes into play at many football venues. I also realize that because of the tight space, Georgetown wants (or wanted, as of 2017) to sell tickets for each side of the field separately, even though most/all of the seats were general admission.

Having been to five games at Multi-Sport/Cooper Field, getting something genuinely nice and sufficiently sized into the field's footprint will be difficult. Notwithstanding that challenge, the biggest issue at the current venue (or at least current as of the last time I was there in 2017) is the lack of a permanent restroom structure.

[DFW HOYA]

Why does Georgetown only want to have seats on one side of the field? I realize the sun is an issue with the current east stands, but that kind of issue comes into play at many football venues. I also realize that because of the tight space, Georgetown wants (or wanted, as of 2017) to sell tickets for each side of the field separately, even though most/all of the seats were general admission.

The loose understanding is that the field needs to accommodate soccer at some point and the current footprint does not support the 75 yard NCAA standard. A secondary issue is that future construction is eyed just behind the footprint on the east side and the egress of heavy construction equipment may be affected by permanent seating.

The moral of the MSF/Cooper Field saga: the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry. And still does.

[RichH2]

Haley ranked the 13 FCS conferences today. Good news PL is not last.At #11 behind the NEC. Ivies at #7

WE have a lot of work to do.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Haley ranked the 13 FCS conferences today. Good news PL is not last.At #11 behind the NEC. Ivies at #7

WE have a lot of work to do.

PL earned that ranking! The league desperately needs at least 3 teams to finish with a winning record this year.

[RichH2]

PL earned that ranking! The league desperately needs at least 3 teams to finish with a winning record this year.

Yup. I actually was a bit surprised we didnt fight it out weth the Pioneer for 12 and 13.

[DFW HOYA]

Yup. I actually was a bit surprised we didn't fight it out with the Pioneer for 12 and 13.

For all the grief the SWAC gets, their teams are as good or better than the PL across the board. It gets brought down by Pine Bluff and Mississippi Valley but their top seven can hold their own.

Who would you pick in theoretical games featuring...

Southern - Colgate
Holy Cross - Grambling St.
Alcorn St. - Georgetown
Fordham - Jackson St.
Alabama A&M - Lafayette
Lehigh - Prairie View A&M
Texas Southern - Bucknell

[RichH2]

For all the grief the SWAC gets, their teams are as good or better than the PL across the board. It gets brought down by Pine Bluff and Mississippi Valley but their top seven can hold their own.

Who would you pick in theoretical games featuring...

Southern - Colgate
Holy Cross - Grambling St.
Alcorn St. - Georgetown
Fordham - Jackson St.
Alabama A&M - Lafayette
Lehigh - Prairie View A&M
Texas Southern - Bucknell


Good point.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

For all the grief the SWAC gets, their teams are as good or better than the PL across the board. It gets brought down by Pine Bluff and Mississippi Valley but their top seven can hold their own.

Who would you pick in theoretical games featuring...

Southern - Colgate
Holy Cross - Grambling St.
Alcorn St. - Georgetown
Fordham - Jackson St.
Alabama A&M - Lafayette
Lehigh - Prairie View A&M
Texas Southern - Bucknell

Makes more sense than scheduling two FBS games.

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh vs Prairie View A&M: The Marching 97 meets the Marching Storm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItxQOS1XyI

[RichH2]

STATS. Top 25 out today. UCDavis at #3. Gonna up Lehigh's. SOS if not the W-L record. :)

[Gangtackle11]

Nova released times for most of their schedule.

2 of the 3 PL games are known:

8/24 @ Colgate noon start
9/7 Lehigh 6pm
9/14 @Bucknell TBA

[RichH2]

Thanks Gang. Philly in the evening. Cool. :)

[The Boogie Down]

Southern - Colgate
Holy Cross - Grambling St.
Alcorn St. - Georgetown
Fordham - Jackson St.
Alabama A&M - Lafayette
Lehigh - Prairie View A&M
Texas Southern - Bucknell

When I was a kid Grambling State would play at Yankee Stadium once a year. Not at all sure what Grambling's ties to the New York Yankees or New York in general are. Can't at all say what started that tradition (although it ended very publicly after the 1987 game when George Steinbrenner complained about torn up turf) but they would usually draw 35,000 fans per game. Most of those games were against other HBCU's but I do remember Grambling taking on Boston U one year.

I've always figured that if Grambling-BU could sell tickets so could Grambling-Fordham. With the new Stadium more open to non-baseball events, including two separate PL games, I wonder why Grambling has yet to return to NYC? Especially now with an available local (Fordham was still in D-III the last time Grambling came up North) playing at the same level.

[DFW HOYA]

I've always figured that if Grambling-BU could sell tickets so could Grambling-Fordham. With the new Stadium more open to non-baseball events, including two separate PL games, I wonder why Grambling has yet to return to NYC? Especially now with an available local (Fordham was still in D-III the last time Grambling came up North) playing at the same level.

Grambling often appeared in the New York Urban League Football Classic, formerly the Whitney Young Classic, which drew as many as 60,000 to Yankee Stadium in its heyday but was ended in 2012 after it moved to the Meadowlands.

These "classic" games are now almost exclusively between HBCU's. Unless a team is paying a sizeable guarantee, many HBCU's will steer clear of a game with non HBCU schools (see "Howard vs. Georgetown, September 14, 2019")

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh vs Prairie View A&M: The Marching 97 meets the Marching Storm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItxQOS1XyI

For the record, I am on board with this.

[The Boogie Down]

Grambling often appeared in the New York Urban League Football Classic, formerly the Whitney Young Classic, which drew as many as 60,000 to Yankee Stadium in its heyday but was ended in 2012 after it moved to the Meadowlands.

These "classic" games are now almost exclusively between HBCU's. Unless a team is paying a sizeable guarantee, many HBCU's will steer clear of a game with non HBCU schools (see "Howard vs. Georgetown, September 14, 2019")


From what I've found, HBCU's (Grambling vs. Morgan State most commonly) began playing at Yankee Stadium back in 1968. Like you've said, they drew as many as 60,000 during those early years. It was named after longtime Urban League president Whitney Young, in 1971 following his death. Not sure when it became the "NY Urban League Football Classic" but it was drawing over 30,000 well into the 1980s. Including in 1984 when Grambling took on BU.

George Steinbrenner forced a move to the Meadowlands after 1987 and things fizzled out over the following decades. But with the popularity of football at the new stadium, and the entire area being in better shape than it was in 1984, I can see Grambling-Fordham matching what BU did 35 years ago.

[ngineer]

Lehigh vs Prairie View A&M: The Marching 97 meets the Marching Storm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItxQOS1XyI

pretty cool. The Marching '97 would show well. Totally different style and a few hundred less musicians, but would be some great pre-game and halftime entertainment. What stadium was that filmed in? Reminded me of Franklin Field, so about 60,000 seats!

[ngineer]

Nova released times for most of their schedule.

2 of the 3 PL games are known:

8/24 @ Colgate noon start
9/7 Lehigh 6pm
9/14 @Bucknell TBA

Glad to see the 'nova game is in the p.m. Visitors stand are in tough sun field at 'nova.

[Sader87]

Considine (Wake Forest transfer QB) is officially a Sader....we shall see...fairly untested at Winston-Salem, seems like he was a preferred walk-on there. Tall, 6'6" with a good arm.

[DFW HOYA]

As the NEC and Pioneer have added members, the PL stands pat. It is now the smallest conference in I-AA, with no real candidates left for expansion due to a high barrier to entry and a low rate of return as far as the playoffs are concerned. The competitive niche just isn't there anymore.

[RichH2]

As the NEC and Pioneer have added members, the PL stands pat. It is now the smallest conference in I-AA, with no real candidates left for expansion due to a high barrier to entry and a low rate of return as far as the playoffs are concerned. The competitive niche just isn't there anymore.

Agreed. PL is now in a very different landscape. One which we have yet to adapt to. PL is making strides, albeit rather late. I am Guardedly optimistic that the PL will improve. At least all have taken steps to improve. Yes even your Hoyas. I agree with owl that PL should have at least 3 teams , perhaps 4, with more Ws than Ls. A modest start at best but it is in the right direction.

[Sader87]

I actually really like the fact that the PL only has 6 league games. Makes the league games that much more important and allows for a more attractive OOC schedule. Really hope the PL nevah expands for football.

[Gangtackle11]

I actually really like the fact that the PL only has 6 league games. Makes the league games that much more important and allows for a more attractive OOC schedule. Really hope the PL nevah expands for football.

You guys will be making room for Villanova in the next few years. Talley was the strong objector to moving out of the CAA. As another few seasons pass & it becomes evident that Villanova is misplaced in the CAA made up mostly of public institutions (sans Richmond & Elon) the Board of Trustees will look to the Patriot League to “right-size” their football program. The thought of playing “peer” academic schools in the Patriot & the proximity of league members is also a strong plus factor.

I dont think its a coincidence that we have 3 PL teams on our OOC schedule this season. It’s only a matter of time & a few more 2-6 CAA seasons away. xpeacex

[van]

You guys will be making room for Villanova in the next few years. Talley was the strong objector to moving out of the CAA. As another few seasons pass & it becomes evident that Villanova is misplaced in the CAA made up mostly of public institutions (sans Richmond & Elon) the Board of Trustees will look to the Patriot League to “right-size” their football program. The thought of playing “peer” academic schools in the Patriot & the proximity of league members is also a strong plus factor.

I dont think its a coincidence that we have 3 PL teams on our OOC schedule this season. It’s only a matter of time & a few more 2-6 CAA seasons away. xpeacex

hoping you are right there gang, Nova is the one school that is a perfect fit in PL football, and from my limited knowledge seems like a better fit in PL than CAA

[Tribe4SF]

You guys will be making room for Villanova in the next few years. Talley was the strong objector to moving out of the CAA. As another few seasons pass & it becomes evident that Villanova is misplaced in the CAA made up mostly of public institutions (sans Richmond & Elon) the Board of Trustees will look to the Patriot League to “right-size” their football program. The thought of playing “peer” academic schools in the Patriot & the proximity of league members is also a strong plus factor.

I dont think its a coincidence that we have 3 PL teams on our OOC schedule this season. It’s only a matter of time & a few more 2-6 CAA seasons away. xpeacex

Staying in the CAA will likely require your fan base to demand competition at the highest level possible, and I doubt there's that kind of commitment. Much more evident at W&M, Richmond and Elon.

[CHIP72]

Staying in the CAA will likely require your fan base to demand competition at the highest level possible, and I doubt there's that kind of commitment. Much more evident at W&M, Richmond and Elon.

There’s plenty of demand from the Villanova fan base for competition at the highest level. It just so happens most of that demand is for the sport of basketball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[centraljerseycat]

You guys will be making room for Villanova in the next few years. Talley was the strong objector to moving out of the CAA. As another few seasons pass & it becomes evident that Villanova is misplaced in the CAA made up mostly of public institutions (sans Richmond & Elon) the Board of Trustees will look to the Patriot League to “right-size” their football program. The thought of playing “peer” academic schools in the Patriot & the proximity of league members is also a strong plus factor.

I dont think its a coincidence that we have 3 PL teams on our OOC schedule this season. It’s only a matter of time & a few more 2-6 CAA seasons away. xpeacex

I have no problem switching to the Patriot League as long as the annual Blue Hen Beat Down continues. I'm also not sure Coach Ferrante is the right person to lead them to post-Talley success but I'm very interested to see what Chris Boden the new OC can do with a fairly young offense. I hope he's as good an FCS coach as he was an FCS QB.

[RichH2]

Nova would be a perfect fit for PL football. Will they? Or is this just a reaction to a couple of bad years?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

6 out of 7 Patriot League teams finished with a losing record last year. Wow, when does Villanova sign up?

[Sader87]

I've been saying "Villanova to the PL for football is a fait accompli" for awhile now :) I think the continued disinterest in FCS football in the Northast will probably speed up this switch for them.

[The Boogie Down]

You guys will be making room for Villanova in the next few years. Talley was the strong objector to moving out of the CAA. As another few seasons pass & it becomes evident that Villanova is misplaced in the CAA made up mostly of public institutions (sans Richmond & Elon) the Board of Trustees will look to the Patriot League to “right-size” their football program. The thought of playing “peer” academic schools in the Patriot & the proximity of league members is also a strong plus factor.

I dont think its a coincidence that we have 3 PL teams on our OOC schedule this season. It’s only a matter of time & a few more 2-6 CAA seasons away. xpeacex

To go from FCS Champions (if this were pro soccer in pretty much anywhere but USA/Canada that woulda automatically gotten you into the the FBS-lol) to even thinking about the PL shows how far Wildcats football has dropped.

Don't get me wrong, there is no team I'd rather have in the fold than Villanova. None. Especially since waaay back in the day there used to be a loose configuration called the Catholic 5 which consisted of BC, Cross, Fordham, Nova and G-town. Nearly 100 years later, getting 4 of the 5 back would be a priddy-yuge get! Not to mention solidifying the I-95 Corridor and giving finally all 2,000 Hoya fans a game to be excited about.

Still tho, from YEARS of flirting with what once was Big East Football to the Patsies? Yikes!

[DFW HOYA]

Don't get me wrong, there is no team I'd rather have in the fold than Villanova. None. Especially since waaay back in the day there used to be a loose configuration called the Catholic 5 which consisted of BC, Cross, Fordham, Nova and G-town.

Since when, and in what sport? Excepting a few years in the late 1940's, Georgetown never played these teams concurrently. The Catholic schools on the schedules of the 1930's were Manhattan, Detroit, and later BC--the Hoyas did not even play Fordham at all between 1928-1946 and Holy Cross was played just once in that same period. Such a phrase was never part of the Georgetown football lexicon, and certainly not after 1950.

Villanova would be foolish to consider a move out of the CAA, and it's even less likely isn't given the tons of revenues it's made on basketball over the recent years.

[The Boogie Down]

Since when, and in what sport? Excepting a few years in the late 1940's, Georgetown never played these teams concurrently. The Catholic schools on the schedules of the 1930's were Manhattan, Detroit, and later BC--the Hoyas did not even play Fordham at all between 1928-1946 and Holy Cross was played just once in that same period. Such a phrase was never part of the Georgetown football lexicon, and certainly not after 1950.

Guessing you've never heard of Charles R. Cox. Neither did I until doing the research but he was Georgetown's AD (when AD's were still called Graduate Managers) back in 1920 and he was the one who proposed an athletic alliance between the Northeast's Jesuit Universities.

Cox, 1880-1944, didn't get much of an obituary in the NYT but he seemed to have a pretty interesting life that included time as a HS football star back in the 1890s, time as a secretary to Alexander Graham Bell while studying law at Georgetown, time as the HC at Randolph-Macon, time as a teacher at the Volta Bureau where Helen Keller was one of his students and finally, towards the end of his life, as the Boston branch manager of Phillies Cigars.

Unfortunately, The Hoya doesn't offer much in terms of archives but The Heights does. Lots of articles about the loose "Big 4" Jesuit configuration throughout the 1920s and occasional later mention of (Augustinian) Villanova as a "Big 5" member too. In fact, between 1920-1930, BC played Cross 11 times, Fordham 10 times and Nova/G-Town 6 times each. The only schools that BC played as often during this era were BU (8 times) and Catholic (6 times) but those two were simply there to serve as patsies. BU/Catholic offered little in local enthusiasm/crowd sizes and even less in competition while combining for a 0-13-1 against the Eagles in that time.

During this same period, and aside from the 10 BC contests, Fordham faced off against Cross and Georgetown 9 times each. Previously their biggest rival had actually been Villanova but the Rams called off that series following a controversial "tie" (originally the refs had given Fordham credit for a game winning TD scored just before the final gun) in 1921.

Whatever type of league Cox had envisioned came to an end by the late 1920s. Fordham brought in Frank Cavanaugh (aka The Iron Major) with the hopes of building a national powerhouse. To various degrees, Fordham's success got each of the others to think more nationally as well. By the late 1930s and early 1940s, these 5 schools, along w/fellow Catholic newcomers, like Duquesne, and traditional Eastern programs, like Pitt, helped make the Northeast the strongest football region in the country. By far. And that was after most of the Ancient VIII had already ceased to be football powers.

Anyways, after WWII football had become too expensive for many Catholic/private schools throughout the country. As for the 5 mentioned above, they again started playing each other while returning to more regional schedules. From 1946 until dropping the sport after the 1950 season, Georgetown played BC, Fordham and Villanova 5 times each. That's each and every season. They also played Cross 3 times.

So yeah, while there was never an official "Catholic 5," they did square off a lot during the 1920s and again after WWII.

BC is the last man standing from that group but, like I said, I'd love seeing Villanova in the PL and reuniting with the other Catholic schools mentioned above.



Villanova would be foolish to consider a move out of the CAA, and it's even less likely isn't given the tons of revenues it's made on basketball over the recent years.

Despite my personal wish of having Villanova in the PL for football, yeah, I wouldn't do it if I was them. And if they did do it, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one telling Talley of that decision!

[DFW HOYA]

Guessing you've never heard of Charles R. Cox. Neither did I until doing the research but he was Georgetown's AD (when AD's were still called Graduate Managers) back in 1920 and he was the one who proposed an athletic alliance between the Northeast's Jesuit Universities.


Actually, I have heard of Charlie Cox but he was gone as AD by 1920 when the HOYA began publishing so it was not surprising that his ideas didn't get much play in Georgetown circles by then; and less so, perhaps, when Penn's Lou Little took over as football coach and AD in 1924, realigning the program to much more of a national approach.

I wouldn't argue that Holy Cross, Fordham, and BC were mainstays by the mid-1920's, although Villanova less so. If there was any serious attempt at a Catholic alliance, it probably would have included Manhattan (playing at Yankee Stadium in those days to Fordham at the Polo Grounds) and maybe not Villanova, whose 1925 schedule included featured Loyola-Baltimore, Dickinson, Catholic, Lebanon Valley, St. John's, Saint Joe's, Lehigh, and Muhlenberg.

Still, I don't see what the PL offers Villanova as a de facto one bid league, thanks in part to the rise of the NEC and in part to the decline in influence by the PL and NEC among the tournament selection committee, who would much rather take a Stony Brook or Towson than a 6-5 PL team.

It's not significantly less expensive to run 60 vs. 63 full scholarships, there's very little in the way of added prestige to the institution (like Georgetown, the PL is not closely associated by fans with its athletic program), and the attendance could take a beating if the Wildcats give up Delaware and JMU for Bucknell and Georgetown. It would be similar to Fordham joining the MAAC.

[RichH2]

Actually, I have heard of Charlie Cox but he was gone as AD by 1920 when the HOYA began publishing so it was not surprising that his ideas didn't get much play in Georgetown circles by then; and less so, perhaps, when Penn's Lou Little took over as football coach and AD in 1924, realigning the program to much more of a national approach.

I wouldn't argue that Holy Cross, Fordham, and BC were mainstays by the mid-1920's, although Villanova less so. If there was any serious attempt at a Catholic alliance, it probably would have included Manhattan (playing at Yankee Stadium in those days to Fordham at the Polo Grounds) and maybe not Villanova, whose 1925 schedule included featured Loyola-Baltimore, Dickinson, Catholic, Lebanon Valley, St. John's, Saint Joe's, Lehigh, and Muhlenberg.

Still, I don't see what the PL offers Villanova as a de facto one bid league, thanks in part to the rise of the NEC and in part to the decline in influence by the PL and NEC among the tournament selection committee, who would much rather take a Stony Brook or Towson than a 6-5 PL team.

It's not significantly less expensive to run 60 vs. 63 full scholarships, there's very little in the way of added prestige to the institution (like Georgetown, the PL is not closely associated by fans with its athletic program), and the attendance could take a beating if the Wildcats give up Delaware and JMU for Bucknell and Georgetown. It would be similar to Fordham joining the MAAC.
Likely true. Little doubt what Nova could bring to the PL. Right now, other than academic peers, we have virtually nothing to offer in return. Why should Nova give up 3 schollies and redshirting for us? If this were the late 90s to early/mid 2000s we could offer multiple top 20 teams and national relevance. Right now we need multiple winning teams and more programs on the rise . Pl needs to be a destination.

[DFW HOYA]

Why should Nova give up 3 schollies and redshirting for us?

If the Patriot League can embrace scholarships, it can embrace red/green/grayshirting. To dismiss it out of hand is to ignore the competitive reality of a conference which has now dropped to 11th of 13 and losing prospects to the NEC.

It's not enough to say, "Lafayette and Holy Cross can't do it, therefore it can't be done." A fifth year does not always require graduate school.

http://catalog.lafayette.edu/current/Catalog/Academic-Programs/Five-Year-Two-Degree-Programs

[RichH2]

If the Patriot League can embrace scholarships, it can embrace red/green/grayshirting. To dismiss it out of hand is to ignore the competitive reality of a conference which has now dropped to 11th of 13 and losing prospects to the NEC.

It's not enough to say, "Lafayette and Holy Cross can't do it, therefore it can't be done." A fifth year does not always require graduate school.

http://catalog.lafayette.edu/current/Catalog/Academic-Programs/Five-Year-Two-Degree-Programs

Absolutely true. An advantage for schools with graduate schools but not as major as some suppose. PL recruits still come here for the education primarily. Even so not that many go on to grad school. Given initial costs of redshirting and our Presidents'aversion to major change :), I can envision a limited start for redshirts. Perhaps no more than 5 in one year and no more than 20 over a 4 year term. Not that I expect any of this anytime soon.

[The Boogie Down]

Actually, I have heard of Charlie Cox but he was gone as AD by 1920 when the HOYA began publishing so it was not surprising that his ideas didn't get much play in Georgetown circles by then; and less so, perhaps, when Penn's Lou Little took over as football coach and AD in 1924, realigning the program to much more of a national approach.

I wouldn't argue that Holy Cross, Fordham, and BC were mainstays by the mid-1920's, although Villanova less so. If there was any serious attempt at a Catholic alliance, it probably would have included Manhattan (playing at Yankee Stadium in those days to Fordham at the Polo Grounds) and maybe not Villanova, whose 1925 schedule included featured Loyola-Baltimore, Dickinson, Catholic, Lebanon Valley, St. John's, Saint Joe's, Lehigh, and Muhlenberg.

Still, I don't see what the PL offers Villanova as a de facto one bid league, thanks in part to the rise of the NEC and in part to the decline in influence by the PL and NEC among the tournament selection committee, who would much rather take a Stony Brook or Towson than a 6-5 PL team.

It's not significantly less expensive to run 60 vs. 63 full scholarships, there's very little in the way of added prestige to the institution (like Georgetown, the PL is not closely associated by fans with its athletic program), and the attendance could take a beating if the Wildcats give up Delaware and JMU for Bucknell and Georgetown. It would be similar to Fordham joining the MAAC.


We're both in agreement that it makes little sense for Villanova to join the PL but lemme clear up some of the historical stuff:

1) Georgetown’s Cox came up with the idea for a Harvard-Yale-Princeton type of alliance between the four major Jesuit universities (BC, HC, Fordham & Georgetown) but it’s one that both the BC and Fordham student papers seemed to run with for most of the 1920s. Maybe other papers too, but those are the ones I've checked.
Link: https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=bcheights19200305.2.3&srpos=1&e= (https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=bcheights19200305.2.3&srpos=1&e=)

2) Villanova later gets mentioned as part of this mythical conference while (from my readings) less prestigious Catholic schools like Providence and Manhattan never do.
Link: https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=bcheights19271206.2.2&srpos=46&e=

3) In fact, Manhattan (like Providence and Catholic) was just a patsy during the 1920s. While calling the Jasper Oval, a small park across the street from CCNY’s grand (but small) Lewinsohn Stadium, and near what had been their old Harlem campus, their home, they were probably the equivalent a D-III back then. Even if the “Big 5” were simply a I-AA collection themselves. In fairness, Manhattan did later bring in Chick Meehan to turn things aroound & they scored some nice wins over Michigan State, NC State and Kentucky. At different times they also called all three of NYC’s MLB stadiums home. But they were never really a player in this town and dropped after the 1942 season.
Link: http://www.luckyshow.org/football/Manhattan.htm

4) Even if you wanna discount Villanova as a rival to the Jesuit schools in the 1920s, they were unquestionably in the loop during the post war years. They were a mainstay on Georgetown’s schedule before the Hoyas dropped after 1950. They were back on Fordham’s schedule before the Rams dropped after 1954. And before Villanova themselves dropped, the Wildcats had somewhat frequently appeared on HC’s schedule and very-very frequently (the Wildcats and Eagles played every single year but one from 1945 to 1980) on BC’s schedule.
Link: https://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/v/villanova/opponents.php

So yeah, LOTS of history between Villanova and the major Eastern Jesuit schools that other come-&-go Catholics (like Manhattan) never enjoyed. And that’s why (as I’ve already said) I’d love seeing Villanova in the PL one day. Boston College too when they eventually drop :)

Seriously though, as we've both already said, today's PL makes little sense for Villanova. Aside from saving a few bucks here and there, I can't see what's in it for them.

[van]

Don't see why the PL does not make sense for Nova vs CAA, PL schools are more peer like than many of the CAA schools, geographical footprint is much better, granted the level of play in the PL has not been very good lately but PL did have multiple playoff teams in the past and can certainly get back to that level again. recruiting may be a bit more difficult with AI, just an assumption on my part.

[RichH2]

Don't see why the PL does not make sense for Nova vs CAA, PL schools are more peer like than many of the CAA schools, geographical footprint is much better, granted the level of play in the PL has not been very good lately but PL did have multiple playoff teams in the past and can certainly get back to that level again. recruiting may be a bit more difficult with AI, just an assumption on my part.

Dont think the pre schollie past helps much now. I am all for Nova . Regardless of the pluses, Nova to the PL now would appear and be a major step down in quality. It is , I believe, our obligation to improve first to remove that obstacle. Lets get multiple winning teams and maybe then a couple of Top 20 teams in the year after.

[van]

Dont think the pre schollie past helps much now. I am all for Nova . Regardless of the pluses, Nova to the PL now would appear and be a major step down in quality. It is , I believe, our obligation to improve first to remove that obstacle. Lets get multiple winning teams and maybe then a couple of Top 20 teams in the year after.

strongly agree

[DFW HOYA]

Granted the level of play in the PL has not been very good lately but PL did have multiple playoff teams in the past and can certainly get back to that level again.

The recent evidence isn't promising.

From 1998 to 2005 the PL had multiple entries (autobid and at-large) entries in the playoffs in five of eight years (1998,99,02,04,05). In that same period, they had 14 teams ranked in the final national poll. In 2009, the PL had three ranked teams. From 2011 to 2018, just two at-large entries and just eight ranked teams. In each of the last five seasons the combined record of the conference is below .500.

What changed? And what didn't?

From a practical matter, the awarding of an autobid to the NEC has taken a bite out of the PL's ability to gain a second bid in a consistent manner. Scholarships haven't helped the situation. Teams start out in a hole in the non-conference schedule and beat each other up during the season. Colgate can get to eight wins but no one else can--and even if someone did, the SOS of PL schools doesn't match a CAA, SoCon, or MVFC team also looking for an at-large. From 2011 to 2018 there have been six PL teams with 8 or more wins that did not win the league title, but only one got an at-large (Fordham, 2015).

The league needs to get a more consistent approach of scheduling across all its schools--you can't have one school loading up with I-A games while another is scheduling D-III opponents. It probably doesn't help that a majority of PL teams will be on the road for much of September and already have three or four losses by the start of conference play. Either the PL wants to be a Northeastern version of the SWAC and assume the role of cannon fodder in the non-conference, or it sits down as a group and builds a scheduling approach with the ability to become a competitive force in the playoffs on a consistent basis.

Fan interest is down in this league. Five of seven schools didn't break 5,000 a game, and Leh-Laf 154 didn't even sell out. How do you build that back? Winning.

[van]

If the Patriot League can embrace scholarships, it can embrace red/green/grayshirting. To dismiss it out of hand is to ignore the competitive reality of a conference which has now dropped to 11th of 13 and losing prospects to the NEC.

It's not enough to say, "Lafayette and Holy Cross can't do it, therefore it can't be done." A fifth year does not always require graduate school.

http://catalog.lafayette.edu/current/Catalog/Academic-Programs/Five-Year-Two-Degree-Programsget rid of the 60 schollie limit and saddle up to 63 and dump the roster limits. bigger bang from the buck from these than redshriting

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

get rid of the 60 schollie limit and saddle up to 63 and dump the roster limits. bigger bang from the buck from these than redshriting

I much rather redshirts. The common theme in 2011 Lehigh and 2018 Colgate were a number of 5th year guys who were major contributors. Having 5th year guys is huge! The experience they bring on and off the field is invaluable imo. It's also crucial when it comes to line play imo. The added year to put on weight and build up strength is crucial. IMO, they PL won't take the next step as league until they have them.

[RichH2]

I much rather redshirts. The common theme in 2011 Lehigh and 2018 Colgate were a number of 5th year guys who were major contributors. Having 5th year guys is huge! The experience they bring on and off the field is invaluable imo. It's also crucial when it comes to line play imo. The added year to put on weight and build up strength is crucial. IMO, they PL won't take the next step as league until they have them.

A lot of "ifs" for the PL's next step. Presidents will not do all at the same time, if they do any ay all.
DFW has a good point with scheduling. I imagine it will even itself out over the next few years. Roster caps the easiest first step albeit rather meaningless without some movement on schollies and/ or redshirting.

[ngineer]

I much rather redshirts. The common theme in 2011 Lehigh and 2018 Colgate were a number of 5th year guys who were major contributors. Having 5th year guys is huge! The experience they bring on and off the field is invaluable imo. It's also crucial when it comes to line play imo. The added year to put on weight and build up strength is crucial. IMO, they PL won't take the next step as league until they have them.

Agreed. The extra year at the age young men are in has significant impact. Several years ago when we played JMU, I recall the tv announcer remarking that JMU had 18 of 22 starters were redshirts and a good number were seniors. Playing a number of true freshmen and sophs creates a huge disparity in physical size and ability. Literally a "men versus boys" situation. Until that gap is reduced, we are pissing into the wind when we schedule schools who redshirt.

[RichH2]

Agreed. The extra year at the age young men are in has significant impact. Several years ago when we played JMU, I recall the tv announcer remarking that JMU had 18 of 22 starters were redshirts and a good number were seniors. Playing a number of true freshmen and sophs creates a huge disparity in physical size and ability. Literally a "men versus boys" situation. Until that gap is reduced, we are pissing into the wind when we schedule schools who redshirt.
Agreed. 5th years , particularly LM , are essential right now albeit that they are few and far between.
In order to get decent OOC games we have no choice but to meet teams with redshirts. I note all of our OOC games are vs teams like that.

[van]

Agreed. The extra year at the age young men are in has significant impact. Several years ago when we played JMU, I recall the tv announcer remarking that JMU had 18 of 22 starters were redshirts and a good number were seniors. Playing a number of true freshmen and sophs creates a huge disparity in physical size and ability. Literally a "men versus boys" situation. Until that gap is reduce, we are pissing into the wind when we schedule schools who redshirt.on the other hand if you are playing a number of FR and SO, what were you recruiting 3 and 4 years ago?

[RichH2]

on the other hand if you are playing a number of FR and SO, what were you recruiting 3 and 4 years ago?

A lot of good players. Graduation ate, 2 injury another. Jorge and Dambach are real good. Burbage , a frosh WR decommitted from Cincy looks to have a huge upside.
Do we have a QB?

[Sader87]

Word on the Hill is that another transfer QB is coming to Woo.
Andrew Sale who has had an interesting collegiate career thus far...1st at Tennessee Tech were he started some in 2017 and then transferred to LSU were he was a backup last year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Word on the Hill is that another transfer QB is coming to Woo.
Andrew Sale who has had an interesting collegiate career thus far...1st at Tennessee Tech were he started some in 2017 and then transferred to LSU were he was a backup last year.

Interesting path...

I feel like HC might be the team in the league that could be really good or the wheels might completely fall off. Just from a distance Chesney knows he needs to make something happen; and much sooner than later. There's some good pieces to work with but the holes and the schedule can't be ignored. If things go sideways and HC ends up 4-8/5-7 I wonder if he'll explore some options. Chesney is not use to losing seasons....

[DFW HOYA]

Five of the seven coaches have been at their school less than three years, so outside of John Garrett there's probably not much heat this year on any of them, which is good because signs point to another poor non-conference record across the league.

[PAllen]

Interesting path...

I feel like HC might be the team in the league that could be really good or the wheels might completely fall off. Just from a distance Chesney knows he needs to make something happen; and much sooner than later. There's some good pieces to work with but the holes and the schedule can't be ignored. If things go sideways and HC ends up 4-8/5-7 I wonder if he'll explore some options. Chesney is not use to losing seasons....

Saw a shot at the big time at LSU. Realized he wasn't going to make an NFL roster there and that going to class wasn't exactly a priority. So he chose the free academics.

[PAllen]

Five of the seven coaches have been at their school less than three years, so outside of John Garrett there's probably not much heat this year on any of them, which is good because signs point to another poor non-conference record across the league.

No coach in the PL is on the hot seat this year or next barring a "dare them to fire me" moment.

[DFW HOYA]

No coach in the PL is on the hot seat this year or next barring a "dare them to fire me" moment.

Lafayette is 9-35 over the last four seasons. In that same stretch, Bucknell is 14-30 and Georgetown is 13-31. Another 3-8 season doesn't buy Garrett any goodwill.

The Leopards' non-conference schedule isn't a recipe for a winning record in November:

at William & Mary
at Monmouth
Sacred Heart
at Albany
Pennsylvania
at Princeton

[van]

Lafayette is 9-35 over the last four seasons. In that same stretch, Bucknell is 14-30 and Georgetown is 13-31. Another 3-8 season doesn't buy Garrett any goodwill.

The Leopards' non-conference schedule isn't a recipe for a winning record in November:

at William & Mary
at Monmouth
Sacred Heart
at Albany
Pennsylvania
at Princeton

as long as his guys go to class and don't commit an felonies, he is safe, no pressure from spotted administration to win

[RichH2]

Hot seat?? Garrett only real candidate based on record but he is at Lafayette. So no.
PL will likely not fare well again OOC. Unsurprising. But, I do expect we will be more competitive and pick up more Ws than last year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No coach in the PL is on the hot seat this year or next barring a "dare them to fire me" moment.

Garrett could be close! If they ran Tavani out of town theres' no reason Garrett can't be too. Lafayette going a full decade without a winning record is mind-boggling. For that to happen the level incompetence has to be through the roof.....

I could kind of see Chesney putting out some feelers if he thinks HC is simply too difficult of a place to win on a regular basis.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Georgetown's Sgarlata signed a 5 year extension. I think it's warranted given the current trajectory. They need to take advantage of this year's team/schedule. Anything less than 7 wins would be a disappointment imo.

[ngineer]

Word on the Hill is that another transfer QB is coming to Woo.
Andrew Sale who has had an interesting collegiate career thus far...1st at Tennessee Tech were he started some in 2017 and then transferred to LSU were he was a backup last year.

Another nomad. A problem with transfers is they come in with questions about their commitment to the team as opposed to just looking out for themselves. At times, depending on the chemistry of those already there, it can work; but it can also lead to dissension. With the new NCAA regulations, this will be a growing problem. Unless the NCAA gets a handle on this, the problem, especially at the FBS level, will get worse with growing loss of interest/attendance. Collegiate athletics (for the marquee sports) becoming nothing more than another "minor league" for the NFL, NBA. The players are no longer "your students" but a bunch of mercenaries looking to get noticed by a scouts.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Another nomad. A problem with transfers is they come in with questions about their commitment to the team as opposed to just looking out for themselves. At times, depending on the chemistry of those already there, it can work; but it can also lead to dissension. With the new NCAA regulations, this will be a growing problem. Unless the NCAA gets a handle on this, the problem, especially at the FBS level, will get worse with growing loss of interest/attendance. Collegiate athletics (for the marquee sports) becoming nothing more than another "minor league" for the NFL, NBA. The players are no longer "your students" but a bunch of mercenaries looking to get noticed by a scouts.

lol How dare they look out for their future. Bow down to your NCAA overlords. Give me a break.

[Sader87]

In theory, I don't disagree regarding transfers.HC has historically not gone that route with the notable exception of Gil Fenerty from LSU ironically in the mid 80s.

It was more of an "emergency plan" as the QB situation on the Hill for a variety of reasons was pretty bare going into this season.

[RichH2]

Garrett could be close! If they ran Tavani out of town theres' no reason Garrett can't be too. Lafayette going a full decade without a winning record is mind-boggling. For that to happen the level incompetence has to be through the roof.....

I could kind of see Chesney putting out some feelers if he thinks HC is simply too difficult of a place to win on a regular basis.

The decade is the fans time perior. For Pard Admin it is 3 of 5 years. They dont care about Ws or Ls. Just appearances. They wont deal with football until Garrett leaves or his contact term ends. Less than 3 Ws tho the heat will rise.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

College Sports Journal basically believes the PL is going to be epically horrible this year. They have Georgetown pegged for 3rd in the PL but 92nd overall in FCS. That's flat-out embarrassing. 5/7 of the league in the bottom 25% of FCS?!?! Lets hope they are way way off. Otherwise, this league is in a world of trouble.....

[Fordham]

I don’t think any team will be as good as Colgate was but I think the league overall will be considerably better than last year. Gate will be good ... and I expect HC, Lehigh and Fordham to be much improved. Bucknell will be better but not sure by how much as I don’t know what was left in the cupboard. Lafayette is the only one I’m concerned about. Could be wrong but I had expected more to this point from Garrett

[RichH2]

I don’t think any team will be as good as Colgate was but I think the league overall will be considerably better than last year. Gate will be good ... and I expect HC, Lehigh and Fordham to be much improved. Bucknell will be better but not sure by how much as I don’t know what was left in the cupboard. Lafayette is the only one I’m concerned about. Could be wrong but I had expected more to this point from Garrett

Pretty much what I see. Or perhaps hope for. :)
OOC record may not be much better overall but we will I think be much more competitive.
Pards? Have no idea what to expect. In the 3rd year of a rebuild, I expected some progress year to year. None yet.
Rams, Lehigh and Crusaders? Of the 3 Lehigh seems to have the most returning starters and questions. A winning season very possible for all 3.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pretty much what I see. Or perhaps hope for. :)
OOC record may not be much better overall but we will I think be much more competitive.
Pards? Have no idea what to expect. In the 3rd year of a rebuild, I expected some progress year to year. None yet.
Rams, Lehigh and Crusaders? Of the 3 Lehigh seems to have the most returning starters and questions. A winning season very possible for all 3.

Lehigh should benefit greatly from the coaching staff continuity under Gilmore. While I don't think Gilmore is the second coming of Belichick, I do think the strength of Lehigh's program will allow him to succeed at a pretty high/Coen type level. The schedule is manageable with 3 NEC teams and a known commodity in 'Nova. The UC Davis game is the only one i'll concede. Just don't get thoroughly embarrassed. Lehigh could go 7-4 and not exactly be world beaters due to the favorable (not easy) schedule. Especially if they squeak by in most of the "Ws"

I have pretty high hopes for Fordham as well. This is Conlin's second year so it's time to see what he can do. The schedule isn't easy nor is loaded with heavy hitters. Ball State is a terrible FBS program, Richmond is struggling (I know what happened last year) and SBU appears to be in a bit of a rebuilding mode. There's tons of talent in the Bronx to allow the Rams to win 7/8 games imo. It's up to the staff to get the pieces in the right place. Fordham seems due for a rebound.

They and Lehigh always bounce back it seems from 2-3 year swoons. Often with one two really good teams...

The PL needs at least 3 teams with a winning record!

I don't see anyway Colgate runs away it. Last year was their Fordham 2013 or Lehigh 2011 team where the stars aligned. They're going to be good no doubt but an undefeated league record will be hard to replicate. I don't fear Lehigh playing in Hamilton. Lehigh actually has a good track record up there.....

[RichH2]

Lehigh should benefit greatly from the coaching staff continuity under Gilmore. While I don't think Gilmore is the second coming of Belichick, I do think the strength of Lehigh's program will allow him to succeed at a pretty high/Coen type level. The schedule is manageable with 3 NEC teams and a known commodity in 'Nova. The UC Davis game is the only one i'll concede. Just don't get thoroughly embarrassed. Lehigh could go 7-4 and not exactly be world beaters due to the favorable (not easy) schedule. Especially if they squeak by in most of the "Ws"

I have pretty high hopes for Fordham as well. This is Conlin's second year so it's time to see what he can do. The schedule isn't easy nor is loaded with heavy hitters. Ball State is a terrible FBS program, Richmond is struggling (I know what happened last year) and SBU appears to be in a bit of a rebuilding mode. There's tons of talent in the Bronx to allow the Rams to win 7/8 games imo. It's up to the staff to get the pieces in the right place. Fordham seems due for a rebound.

They and Lehigh always bounce back it seems from 2-3 year swoons. Often with one two really good teams...

The PL needs at least 3 teams with a winning record!

I don't see anyway Colgate runs away it. Last year was their Fordham 2013 or Lehigh 2011 team where the stars aligned. They're going to be good no doubt but an undefeated league record will be hard to replicate. I don't fear Lehigh playing in Hamilton. Lehigh actually has a good track record up there.....

Its the ifs owl. Last year an outlier. A hamstrung O not only stifled scoring but put undue pressure on D. There is a ton of talent returning and a very strong recruit class. The staff seems much more focused and energetic than any we've had for the last 2-3 years. 7-8 Ws are very possible. A better D; healthy OL; a more aggressive OC and some luck. xthumbsupx xcoachxxhypedx

[crusader11]

I could kind of see Chesney putting out some feelers if he thinks HC is simply too difficult of a place to win on a regular basis.

Interesting conjecture.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Interesting conjecture.

I think HC will have a tough time putting together winning record this year with their insane schedule. That will be two losing seasons in a row. His first two of his career. Some reflection would likely be in order imo....

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think HC will have a tough time putting together winning record this year with their insane schedule. That will be two losing seasons in a row. His first two of his career. Some reflection would likely be in order imo....
If we manage to beat Colgate and win the league this year, it's not inconceivable to think that we would do so with a 6-5 record.

I hope we dont see another 5-win playoff team out of the Patriot League any time soon....

[DFW HOYA]

This should be the second time since joining in 2001 that Georgetown is not picked last (or next to last) in the pre-season media poll.

Georgetown's pre-season placement in the last five years:

2014: 7th
2015: 7th
2016: 7th
2017: 6th
2018: 7th

That a non-scholarship team hasn't been ground into the dust after seven years facing scholarship PL teams is either a reflection of Georgetown's perseverance, the relative growth of the PL, or a little of both.

[RichH2]

Probably a bit of both. Dont shortchange his recruiting. Hevis bringing in better players and more of them than in the past.

[crusader11]

I think HC will have a tough time putting together winning record this year with their insane schedule. That will be two losing seasons in a row. His first two of his career. Some reflection would likely be in order imo....

So you think he’s just going to resign, drop back down to the D3 level, or go take another job as a coordinator?

Come on. This is silly.

[RichH2]

So you think he’s just going to resign, drop back down to the D3 level, or go take another job as a coordinator?

Come on. This is silly.

Premature perhaps but not at all silly. Chesney is on the way up. If he sees that , for whatever reason, he wont succeed in building a title team in 3-4 years, he could well go for an FBS Coordinator spot to continue the upward .trajectory.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Premature perhaps but not at all silly. Chesney is on the way up. If he sees that , for whatever reason, he wont succeed in building a title team in 3-4 years, he could well go for an FBS Coordinator spot to continue the upward .trajectory.

FBS coordinator is what I'm thinking. When he took the job I figured he would be there 3-5 years. Chesney definitely seems like the type of coach that would move on/climb the ladder following at least one damn good year. However, if he doesn't think he can pull it off within a time table that jives with him than I could see him exploring other options. I think him going after these transfer QB's is an indication he's willing to take a bit of a gamble to speed up the process. It worked for Moorhead at Fordham with Nebrich. Granted, Moorhead knew Nebrich from their time at UConn. Bottom line, I never thought Chesney was going to be at HC long from the start.

[Sader87]

We'll see with Chesney....hard to evaluate so soon in his tenure at HC.

He's had one year at HC...a little early to deem him the next Dr Eddie Anderson...I like the energy he's brought to the program but I think the verdict is still out if he can win at the D1 level.

[crusader11]

FBS coordinator is what I'm thinking.

A more direct route to an FBS head coaching job would be turning around HC (one or two PLCs and a win or two in the playoffs), rather than going the coordinator route where you have hitched your wagon to the success -- or lack thereof -- of a head coach.

He's not leaving if HC is below .500 this season.

[RichH2]

A more direct route to an FBS head coaching job would be turning around HC (one or two PLCs and a win or two in the playoffs), rather than going the coordinator route where you have hitched your wagon to the success -- or lack thereof -- of a head coach.

He's not leaving if HC is below .500 this season.

The question is not whether Cross breaks 500 but whether ,after 2 years, Chesney sees a path forward to get enough success to continue his path upward.

[DFW HOYA]

The question is not whether Cross breaks 500 but whether ,after 2 years, Chesney sees a path forward to get enough success to continue his path upward.

Not sure this is the case, but if Chesney came to Worcester with the idea of being a "up or out" head coach in two or three years, then it may not be the right fit.

Assistant coaches think that way because that's how the business works. It shouldn't work that way for head coaches, especially in the PL where the upward mobility is fairly limited. Outside of Moorhead and Clawson, the PL coaches of roughly the last 20 years haven't all moved up the coaching ladder:

Bucknell
Susan: Out of coaching
Landis: Assistant coach, Lycoming
Kotulski: Assistant coach, Mercyhurst

Colgate
Biddle: Retired

Fordham
Briener: Assistant coach, Miss. St.
Moorhead: Head coach at Miss St.
Masella: Assistant coach, UMass
Clawson: Head coach at Wake Forest

Georgetown
Kelly: Out of coaching
Benson: Assistant coach, Penn

Holy Cross
Gilmore: Head coach at Lehigh
Allen: Deceased

Lafayette
Tavani: Retired
Russo: Retired

Lehigh
Coen: Retired
Lembo: Assistant coach, Memphis
Higgins: Assistant coach, Wake Forest

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Not sure this is the case, but if Chesney came to Worcester with the idea of being a "up or out" head coach in two or three years, then it may not be the right fit.

Assistant coaches think that way because that's how the business works. It shouldn't work that way for head coaches, especially in the PL where the upward mobility is fairly limited. Outside of Moorhead and Clawson, the PL coaches of roughly the last 20 years haven't all moved up the coaching ladder:

Bucknell
Susan: Out of coaching
Landis: Assistant coach, Lycoming
Kotulski: Assistant coach, Mercyhurst

Colgate
Biddle: Retired

Fordham
Briener: Assistant coach, Miss. St.
Moorhead: Head coach at Miss St.
Masella: Assistant coach, UMass
Clawson: Head coach at Wake Forest

Georgetown
Kelly: Out of coaching
Benson: Assistant coach, Penn

Holy Cross
Gilmore: Head coach at Lehigh
Allen: Deceased

Lafayette
Tavani: Retired
Russo: Retired

Lehigh
Coen: Retired
Lembo: Assistant coach, Memphis
Higgins: Assistant coach, Wake Forest

Higgins went from Lehigh to the Lions QB Coach. That's a pretty big jump!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

A more direct route to an FBS head coaching job would be turning around HC (one or two PLCs and a win or two in the playoffs), rather than going the coordinator route where you have hitched your wagon to the success -- or lack thereof -- of a head coach.

He's not leaving if HC is below .500 this season.

I think it's possible but certainly not probable. Chesney is a different breed for a PL program imo. I don't think anyone believes he'll be in Worcester long. It seemed like the realistic goal (HC folks) was to max out for a season or two then hope the next guy can keep it going.

I was one of the very few who thought Susan could legitimately be on thin ice last summer.

[DFW HOYA]

I was one of the very few who thought Susan could legitimately be on thin ice last summer.

I would suggest that both Garrett brothers fit that description in 2019.

I don't know what another 3-8 season buys John this season, but I can guess what awaits Jason in the final year of his contract without a trip to the NFC title game.

[Sader87]

Mark Duffner went from HC HC to Maryland HC in 1992 but that was a different world in many ways

[Fordham]

Not sure this is the case, but if Chesney came to Worcester with the idea of being a "up or out" head coach in two or three years, then it may not be the right fit.

Assistant coaches think that way because that's how the business works. It shouldn't work that way for head coaches, especially in the PL where the upward mobility is fairly limited. Outside of Moorhead and Clawson, the PL coaches of roughly the last 20 years haven't all moved up the coaching ladder:

Bucknell
Susan: Out of coaching
Landis: Assistant coach, Lycoming
Kotulski: Assistant coach, Mercyhurst

Colgate
Biddle: Retired

Fordham
Briener: Assistant coach, Miss. St.
Moorhead: Head coach at Miss St.
Masella: Assistant coach, UMass
Clawson: Head coach at Wake Forest

Georgetown
Kelly: Out of coaching
Benson: Assistant coach, Penn

Holy Cross
Gilmore: Head coach at Lehigh
Allen: Deceased

Lafayette
Tavani: Retired
Russo: Retired

Lehigh
Coen: Retired
Lembo: Assistant coach, Memphis
Higgins: Assistant coach, Wake Forest
This would be meaningful imo if you could tell me which coaches were hired with the agreement that they would make a splash and move on. I don’t think any school outside of Fordham has targeted that type of coach until Chesney got hired and we’ve been pretty successful at it imo. I think most PL programs strive to find the next Biddle. Huge difference between that and going after Chesney imo and absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as the school and coach are on the same page I think Chesney is the perfect fit at the right time and I also hope that Conlin is successful quickly enough that I’m rooting for him at another program in the next 2-3 years. It’s healthy

[RichH2]

Fordham
PL is now and has been a stepping stone league. Coaches that make the PL a career are few and far between. The only reasonable option is to hire the best coach you can with the realization that if he is as goid as hoped he will eventually move on. At LU, since 1965 we have had 2 HCs retire. Whitehead and Coen. All the rest moved on. Dunlap to his alma mater. Small eventually to Charleston So.as AD Lembo to Ball St. Higgins to the NFL. In their wake they left a very good program. On balance I want the best coach we can get. Holy Cross should not expect Chesney to stay if he is successful.

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham
PL is now and has been a stepping stone league. Coaches that make the PL a career are few and far between.

Disagree.

Georgetown has had only four head coaches since 1970.
Lafayette has had four since 1971.
Colgate has had four since 1988 and five since 1976.
Holy Cross has had four since 1992.

[RichH2]

Nope. Mediocre coaches stay. Tafani and Biddle/Hunt account for large parts of those 2. GU has not been a stepping stone nor has it been a viable program until the last 3. years.

[DFW HOYA]

Nope. Mediocre coaches stay. Tafani and Biddle/Hunt account for large parts of those 2. GU has not been a stepping stone nor has it been a viable program until the last 3. years.

Georgetown values longevity across the board.

Four basketball head coaches since 1972.
Four baseball head coaches since 1980.
Or, in another view:
Three university presidents since 1976.

Not sure the last three years were more or less viable. 2016 and 2017 was a combined 0-12 in the PL.

[RichH2]

Dont be such a pessimist. Your guy has brought in 3 very good classes in a row. Hoyas are real. Not deep. Avoid injuries and next year will be remarkable.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

As currently constructed.

Gilmore - Will either retire at Lehigh or be run off in 3-4 years if he doesn't get the ball rolling.
Hunt - I think he's a lifer BUT if the 'Cuse (even OC/DC) or maybe Buffalo come calling you have to listen. right?!?!
Sgarlata - If Georgetown has a real big year does he take calls? If they go on a nice 2-3 run does he bolt? I say yes despite being an alum....
Chesney - Will be gone within 2-3 years.
Cecchini - My guess is he's safe for the next 5-10 years. He could win big, he could get fired or Bucknell could end the program. All three things seem possible..
Garrett - I think he's getting close to thin ice. Lafayette's performance against Lehigh was inexcusable. Lehigh definitely came out and played hard for their coach but overall they were terrible last year. No reason the Leopards should have lost like that on their home turf without a lack of effort/focus. Another bad year and that includes another loss to Lehigh (0-3) and I'd lean towards fired....
Conlin - I don't believe he'll stay in the Bronx for more than 5-6 years if he's successful.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Nope. Mediocre coaches stay. Tafani and Biddle/Hunt account for large parts of those 2. GU has not been a stepping stone nor has it been a viable program until the last 3. years.

Hunt could easily have a quality FBS coordinator gig or a middling FBS gig if he wanted. Another big year and his stock will only rise. If he stays at Colgate that's all on him. I'm pretty sure Biddle was offered the Duke HC job at some point. If not offered the job he was highly highly desired....

Coen could have bolted Lehigh after 2011 or 2012. Richmond was after him in 2011 iirc.

[TheValleyRaider]

Hunt could easily have a quality FBS coordinator gig or a middling FBS gig if he wanted. Another big year and his stock will only rise. If he stays at Colgate that's all on him. I'm pretty sure Biddle was offered the Duke HC job at some point. If not offered the job he was highly highly desired....

Coen could have bolted Lehigh after 2011 or 2012. Richmond was after him in 2011 iirc.

He was being considered for the job in 2003, but then Ted Roof beat UNC, so they off the interim tag.

[RichH2]

Hunt could easily have a quality FBS coordinator gig or a middling FBS gig if he wanted. Another big year and his stock will only rise. If he stays at Colgate that's all on him. I'm pretty sure Biddle was offered the Duke HC job at some point. If not offered the job he was highly highly desired....

Coen could have bolted Lehigh after 2011 or 2012. Richmond was after him in 2011 iirc.

Timing. Dave did Valpo for one reason. To be HC. Agree he probably stays 5 years.He will build a program.
Hunt. A lifer I think.. Gilmore. Had his shot after Randolph years. Decided to stay. Hindsight for us. At Lehigh? He has a very solid program with an excellent AD and an admin that supports athletics. IMO he has 3 years. If team hasnt progressed, Joe is not keeping him. Joe is at the legacy stage of his career. Not all that many years left. He doesnt want a football dumpster fire as his legacy.
Agree Chesney and Conlin will try to build and move on.
Sgarlata is a lifer. Hoyas are very lucky to have a guy like him.

[DFW HOYA]

Dont be such a pessimist. Your guy has brought in 3 very good classes in a row. Hoyas are real. Not deep. Avoid injuries and next year will be remarkable.

Not a pessimist, but the 11th ranked defense in the subdivision can't always cover for the 121st ranked offense.

[centraljerseycat]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;2779485]Georgetown values longevity across the board.

Four basketball head coaches since 1972.
Four baseball head coaches since 1980.
Or, in another view:
Three university presidents since 1976.

I think Villanova beats that:
3 University Presidents since '75
2 football coaches since '85
and the best of all only 5 basketball coaches since '36...which I think is the fewest in all D-1 NCAA.

Villanova favors longevity too....

[RichH2]

Not a pessimist, but the 11th ranked defense in the subdivision can't always cover for the 121st ranked offense.

The pessimist :)
Not quite as bleak as you portray. D is the best in PL returns 8 starters. 21.1 ppg. 15th best in FCS. O returns 7 starters . Most importantly 3 OL QB and top 2 RBs.

[Fordham]

As currently constructed.

Gilmore - Will either retire at Lehigh or be run off in 3-4 years if he doesn't get the ball rolling.
Hunt - I think he's a lifer BUT if the 'Cuse (even OC/DC) or maybe Buffalo come calling you have to listen. right?!?!
Sgarlata - If Georgetown has a real big year does he take calls? If they go on a nice 2-3 run does he bolt? I say yes despite being an alum....
Chesney - Will be gone within 2-3 years.
Cecchini - My guess is he's safe for the next 5-10 years. He could win big, he could get fired or Bucknell could end the program. All three things seem possible..
Garrett - I think he's getting close to thin ice. Lafayette's performance against Lehigh was inexcusable. Lehigh definitely came out and played hard for their coach but overall they were terrible last year. No reason the Leopards should have lost like that on their home turf without a lack of effort/focus. Another bad year and that includes another loss to Lehigh (0-3) and I'd lean towards fired....
Conlin - I don't believe he'll stay in the Bronx for more than 5-6 years if he's successful.

Nailed it

[DFW HOYA]

The pessimist :)
Not quite as bleak as you portray. D is the best in PL returns 8 starters. 21.1 ppg. 15th best in FCS. O returns 7 starters . Most importantly 3 OL QB and top 2 RBs.

Top 2 RB's is a misnomer for a team that averages less than 95 yards a game on the ground. This is a direct result of Georgetown's inability to recruit impact offensive talent from the non-scholarship pool, and it's been this way for 20 years. There are so very few kids with impact talent willing to forego a scholarship, and those that do get a PWO opportunity elsewhere. You can teach-up on defense but not a lot of 5-11, 180 lb. all-county backs are going to take over at this level.

[Gater]

As long as Georgetown doesn't give scholarships, it will always be outgunned at the FCS level. The service academies are similarly hamstrung at the FBS level. I think their acceptance of that and ultimately, turning that into a strength, might make sense for Georgetown. Run a gimmick offense that other teams have to specifically prepare for that is a huge pain the rear--something like the triple option. No one else (I think) in the northeast is doing it at the FCS level. Georgetown has smart guys that play hard--that's a big part of running that kind of offense. Plus, it keeps games close and could really take advantage of Georgetown's D. No team in this league would want you to make the switch, which probably tells you it's the right move.

[RichH2]

Top 2 RB's is a misnomer for a team that averages less than 95 yards a game on the ground. This is a direct result of Georgetown's inability to recruit impact offensive talent from the non-scholarship pool, and it's been this way for 20 years. There are so very few kids with impact talent willing to forego a scholarship, and those that do get a PWO opportunity elsewhere. You can teach-up on defense but not a lot of 5-11, 180 lb. all-county backs are going to take over at this level.

Some luck needed each year. RBs are not bad. A better OL is the issue. You have a good base for OL plus you have a couple of very good OL coming in. Tough to start a frosh there but Hoyas lack depth. Lehigh solved it back preschollie by having 25 to 30 OL rostered. NEC teams do that now. Unfortunately Hoyas cant or wont do that. Of course roster cap stops it anyway. Stillbthink PL should give you a pass on that cap.

[RichH2]

As long as Georgetown doesn't give scholarships, it will always be outgunned at the FCS level. The service academies are similarly hamstrung at the FBS level. I think their acceptance of that and ultimately, turning that into a strength, might make sense for Georgetown. Run a gimmick offense that other teams have to specifically prepare for that is a huge pain the rear--something like the triple option. No one else (I think) in the northeast is doing it at the FCS level. Georgetown has smart guys that play hard--that's a big part of running that kind of offense. Plus, it keeps games close and could really take advantage of Georgetown's D. No team in this league would want you to make the switch, which probably tells you it's the right move.

Now you shush. :) Hoyas will be tough enough without giving them an excellent idea. Huge rosters help Academies. PL thats a no no.

[ngineer]

As currently constructed.

Gilmore - Will either retire at Lehigh or be run off in 3-4 years if he doesn't get the ball rolling.
Hunt - I think he's a lifer BUT if the 'Cuse (even OC/DC) or maybe Buffalo come calling you have to listen. right?!?!
Sgarlata - If Georgetown has a real big year does he take calls? If they go on a nice 2-3 run does he bolt? I say yes despite being an alum....
Chesney - Will be gone within 2-3 years.
Cecchini - My guess is he's safe for the next 5-10 years. He could win big, he could get fired or Bucknell could end the program. All three things seem possible..
Garrett - I think he's getting close to thin ice. Lafayette's performance against Lehigh was inexcusable. Lehigh definitely came out and played hard for their coach but overall they were terrible last year. No reason the Leopards should have lost like that on their home turf without a lack of effort/focus. Another bad year and that includes another loss to Lehigh (0-3) and I'd lean towards fired....
Conlin - I don't believe he'll stay in the Bronx for more than 5-6 years if he's successful.

Yeah, from this list, Garrett is the only one on any kind of "hot seat". This is his fourth year coming up and he needs to show something is improving. Another blowout at the hands of "the good guys" and he should be sent packing. The high turnover rate on his staff should be concerning.

[ngineer]

Top 2 RB's is a misnomer for a team that averages less than 95 yards a game on the ground. This is a direct result of Georgetown's inability to recruit impact offensive talent from the non-scholarship pool, and it's been this way for 20 years. There are so very few kids with impact talent willing to forego a scholarship, and those that do get a PWO opportunity elsewhere. You can teach-up on defense but not a lot of 5-11, 180 lb. all-county backs are going to take over at this level.

Key is OL recruitment. I don't care how good your RBs are, if the hogs up front aren't up to it, forget it. See Bragalone senior year with a patchwork and inexperienced OL.

[RichH2]

Yeah, from this list, Garrett is the only one on any kind of "hot seat". This is his fourth year coming up and he needs to show something is improving. Another blowout at the hands of "the good guys" and he should be sent packing. The high turnover rate on his staff should be concerning.
He has pieces in place. Watching games, there is no O. Unless the 2 year starter improves a lot and Garrett stops calling plays, Pards may get closer to 500 at best.
Not surprising Garrett was looking for a job. Most of his hires left because they saw no path upward. Seems he sees the same

[Fordham]

He has pieces in place. Watching games, there is no O. Unless the 2 year starter improves a lot and Garrett stops calling plays, Pards may get closer to 500 at best.
Not surprising Garrett was looking for a job. Most of his hires left because they saw no path upward. Seems he sees the same. “Garrett was looking for a job” ... ?!??!

[RichH2]

. “Garrett was looking for a job” ... ?!??!

At Delaware apparently. Not uncommon for coaches to keep a line on possible jobs. 2 years left on a contract tjo??

[ngineer]

At Delaware apparently. Not uncommon for coaches to keep a line on possible jobs. 2 years left on a contract tjo??

So he really is chicken!

[Gangtackle11]

So he really is chicken!

More like a dirty filthy bird. xpeacex

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Cecchini lands something uncommon in Lewisburg- 2/3 star QB.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/07/14/bucknell-football-recruiting-saguaro-2020-qb-tyler-beverett-commits/1728347001/?cid=twitter_azcentral

[RichH2]

Cecchini lands something uncommon in Lewisburg- 2/3 star QB.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/07/14/bucknell-football-recruiting-saguaro-2020-qb-tyler-beverett-commits/1728347001/?cid=twitter_azcentral

Bison have gotten a number of 3* QBs over the years. Susan never knew how to use them. This coach does.
You also have a verbal from a 2* , Nick Semptinphelter from Tenn.

[ngineer]

Bison have gotten a number of 3* QBs over the years. Susan never knew how to use them. This coach does.
You also have a verbal from a 2* , Nick Semptinphelter from Tenn.

I assume it is Scott's son??! Wasn't Chick a WR when Semptinphelter was our starting QB on year?
This is where it would be nice to have a real QB coach. Chick was a WR, but also as an offensive Coordinator for so many years, he knows the position. Would have loved for Stambaugh to have transitioned a few years ago to our QB coach and ultimately the OC.

[RichH2]

I assume it is Scott's son??! Wasn't Chick a WR when Semptinphelter was our starting QB on year?
This is where it would be nice to have a real QB coach. Chick was a WR, but also as an offensive Coordinator for so many years, he knows the position. Would have loved for Stambaugh to have transitioned a few years ago to our QB coach and ultimately the OC.

+1
Absolutely! So far Bris hasnt shown much. Odd feeling for me coming into a season. Optimistic with the talent but no clue as to what the Lehigh offense will be.

[PAllen]

+1
Absolutely! So far Bris hasnt shown much. Odd feeling for me coming into a season. Optimistic with the talent but no clue as to what the Lehigh offense will be.

I'll go with bland, boring, and easy to read.

[RichH2]

Speaking of offenses, we should all take a look at Chesney. He brought in two 3* QBs today. Hunter Helms and Marco Siderman. By current count he has 3 rated QBs in next years class plus a Wake Forest transfer for this year.

[crusader11]

Speaking of offenses, we should all take a look at Chesney.

Look fast because he won't be here longer than another year or two according to TU Owl.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Look fast because he won't be here longer than another year or two according to TU Owl.

3 at most. I'd put the over under at 1.5.....

[PAllen]

3 at most. I'd put the over under at 1.5.....

Over

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Over

Moorhead lasted 4 years at Fordham. I think Chesney is similar. He was at Salve Regina 3 years and Assumption 5. Since this year is upon us I think going with a 3.5 year o/u is reasonable.....

[RichH2]

Finally no longer a 404 message.
The Chesney Conundrum :) . Back to back winning seasons and he will move on.

[Fordham]

Finally no longer a 404 message.
The Chesney Conundrum :) . Back to back winning seasons and he will move on.
he'll need to do better than that imo. two very strong seasons where he's competing for a playoff spot and PL title in both and gets each at least once.

[PAllen]

he'll need to do better than that imo. two very strong seasons where he's competing for a playoff spot and PL title in both and gets each at least once.

This, unless he's willing to settle for a coordinator position in a low level G6 program.

[Sader87]

Chesney (or Walter Camp) will have a hard time going ovah .500 next year given the schedule, short time he's been here etc

[PAllen]

Chesney (or Walter Camp) will have a hard time going ovah .500 next year given the schedule, short time he's been here etc

I love your 2019 schedule. Navy and Cuse are most likely losses. You'll be underdogs in a few others, but seven or eight wins is definitely doable.

[Sader87]

I could see HC winning the PL next year going 5-7 or 6-6

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I could see HC winning the PL next year going 5-7 or 6-6

Which would be another huge embarrassment for the league. Bottom line, win! Like everyone else, HC needs to win. Don't use the schedule as an excuse. Don't suck and win some of those games. Everyone can schedule tough and lose.