The Latest Idiot Writing About College Football

[Mr. C]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/6635176

Well, it seems that some bozo named Pete Fiutak of CollegeFootballNews.com thinks that Appalachian State wasn't very good because of its season-opening loss to North Carolina State, saying it was the "only" Division I team the Mountaineers played last year. Here is the offensive paragraph from a question and answer:

Where would Appalachian State rank if they were included in the CFN 119? – JD

A: If you're talking about last season, it would've probably ranked around 90. It lost 23-10 to N.C. State in the season opener and didn't play any other D-I teams, but with that offense, it probably could've beaten most Sun Belt teams and the weaker of the non-BCS squads. If you're asking about the upcoming season, we'll know right off the bat opening up against Michigan. With the big losses on both lines, it would probably get a preseason ranking of about 95.

You have to remember the key difference between D-I and D-IAA: depth. More scholarships means more restaurant-quality athletes to stockpile and develop, and while the best of the best D-IAAers could certainly be more than just competitive in the D-I non-BCS leagues, getting through the grind of a long season would always be an issue.

I haven't tracked down this fool's email address yet, but I'll pass it along when I find it.

[TexasTerror]

I haven't tracked down this fool's email address yet, but I'll pass it along when I find it.

Here's Pete's e-mail... xnodx

[email protected]

[aswedc]

The guy obviously knows the difference between FBS and FCS, he mentions it in the second paragraph.

As we learned in another thread recently, there are FCS players who refer to FBS as Division I. Are you going to email them too about what bozos and fools they are?

I'll never understand why people get so upset about a name.

[Cleets]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/6635176

Well, it seems that some bozo named Pete Fiutak of CollegeFootballNews.com thinks that Appalachian State wasn't very good because of its season-opening loss to North Carolina State, saying it was the "only" Division I team the Mountaineers played last year. Here is the offensive paragraph from a question and answer:

Where would Appalachian State rank if they were included in the CFN 119? – JD

A: If you're talking about last season, it would've probably ranked around 90. It lost 23-10 to N.C. State in the season opener and didn't play any other D-I teams, but with that offense, it probably could've beaten most Sun Belt teams and the weaker of the non-BCS squads. If you're asking about the upcoming season, we'll know right off the bat opening up against Michigan. With the big losses on both lines, it would probably get a preseason ranking of about 95.

You have to remember the key difference between D-I and D-IAA: depth. More scholarships means more restaurant-quality athletes to stockpile and develop, and while the best of the best D-IAAers could certainly be more than just competitive in the D-I non-BCS leagues, getting through the grind of a long season would always be an issue.

I haven't tracked down this fool's email address yet, but I'll pass it along when I find it.


Is this worse than most sports writers...? xlolx
Mr.C cut the guy some slack...


-

[Mr. C]

As someone with a whopping five posts, you really understand a lot about AGS. And you might want to be careful calling someone a "NAZI."

There are a lot of us who will defend FCS ANYTIME that this division is dishonored. The whole reason that the NCAA changed things from I-AA and I-A to FCS and FBS was because so many idiots couldn't keep it straight that I-AA and FCS IS Division. And I guess you are going to call all of the conference commissioners in FCS "NAZIS" too? There are a lot of people trying to get folks to get things right. Why can't myself and everyone else expect that out writers covering college football?

[Mr. C]

Is this worse than most sports writers...? xlolx
Mr.C cut the guy some slack...


-
He made several other blunders in this answer as well. Why should I cut him slack?

[aswedc]

You'll notice that I decided to change my choice of words shortly after posting.

Fine, defend the technically correct name all you want. But you're getting into a good bit of name calling yourself. Is it really something to get so upset over?

By the way, perhaps you'd like to point out the other errors in his answer? I see nothing wrong with it.

[appfan2008]

Mr. C I am well on top of this ridiculous situation having sent him a heated email...
thanks for keeping up with all these situations for us.

[Cleets]

He made several other blunders in this answer as well. Why should I cut him slack?

Well you know we all read your stuff (you know where) and certainly appreciate your work casting some light on FCS...

Maybe you could gently nudge him....?
but to just tea bag him and then dump his email address to the wolves (here) will lead him to believe we're all a bunch of nuts... (which we are) so lets not be so quick to let that cat out of the bag...

Maybe a gentle education will help him understand...(No..?) it's always easy to dismiss crazy people...

-

[appfan2008]

You'll notice that I decided to change my choice of words shortly after posting.

Fine, defend the technically correct name all you want. But you're getting into a good bit of name calling yourself. Is it really something to get so upset over?

By the way, perhaps you'd like to point out the other errors in his answer? I see nothing wrong with it.
what about the other things he said that were wrong like how he said we played one div one game when we really played 14 of our 15 games!

[aswedc]

Um, AppFan, that's not another thing he got wrong, that's the same thing Mr. C posted about, and as far as I can see, the only error in the article.

[Cleets]

Well you know we all read your stuff (you know where) and certainly appreciate your work casting some light on FCS...

Maybe you could gently nudge him....?
but to just tea bag him and then dump his email address to the wolves (here) will lead him to believe we're all a bunch of nuts... (which we are) so lets not be so quick to let that cat out of the bag...

Maybe a gentle education will help him understand...(No..?) it's always easy to dismiss crazy people...

-

please read this... (seriously) Let's let Mr. C handle this, he's got the street cred. and the proper know-how...


-

[appfan2008]

Um, AppFan, that's not another thing he got wrong, that's the same thing Mr. C posted about, and as far as I can see, the only error in the article.
wow, I really cannot understand why you are on an fcs site and are defending someone who screwed up the level of our league

[aswedc]

Maybe I'm here because I'm getting a grad degree at a FCS school?

I'm not defending a mistake, I'm against attacking people for a simple mistake.

I'm asking Mr. C to point out the supposed other errors in the article, because I'm getting a sneaking feeling the other reason he's upset is he doesn't think CFN should have the right to say App State is inferior to most FBS teams...

[appfan2008]

Maybe I'm here because I'm getting a grad degree at a FCS school?

I'm not defending a mistake, I'm against attacking people for a simple mistake.

I'm asking Mr. C to point out the supposed other errors in the article, because I'm getting a sneaking feeling the other reason he's upset is he doesn't think CFN should have the right to say App State is inferior to most FBS teams...
what you may not understand about ags is that we take this stuff seriously and we have to fight back! we cant get bad pub like that xnonox

[Cleets]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleets
Well you know we all read your stuff (you know where) and certainly appreciate your work casting some light on FCS...

Maybe you could gently nudge him....?
but to just tea bag him and then dump his email address to the wolves (here) will lead him to believe we're all a bunch of nuts... (which we are) so lets not be so quick to let that cat out of the bag...

Maybe a gentle education will help him understand...(No..?) it's always easy to dismiss crazy people...

-

please read this... (seriously) Let's let Mr. C handle this, he's got the street cred. and the proper know-how...

[appfan2008]

dude... I sent the guy an email because I felt it was the right thing to do... but hey you can have your opinion and i can have mine!

[Mr. C]

Maybe I'm here because I'm getting a grad degree at a FCS school?

I'm not defending a mistake, I'm against attacking people for a simple mistake.

I'm asking Mr. C to point out the supposed other errors in the article, because I'm getting a sneaking feeling the other reason he's upset is he doesn't think CFN should have the right to say App State is inferior to most FBS teams...
He said that ASU had "big" losses on both sides of the line for one thing. ASU lost three defensive line starters, but if you know ANYTHING about the Mountaineers, you would know that they return a sophomore (Gary Tharrington) that started the whole season and is projected as a future All-American, another sophomore (Anthony Williams) who played about half of the time at DT last year. They also have another sophomore (Tony Robertson) who is being groomed to take Marques Murrell's place. In the 15 years I've covered ASU, there has only been one year where they were vulnerable on the defensive line (2004) and the Mountaineers have a string of All-Americans D-linemen that goes back 20 years (12 different players in that time). ASU returns four players with significant playing time on the offensive line (three starters, led by guard Kerry Brown, who is probably the best returning lineman in the FCS. This is a team that is loaded again, heading into 2007. Most FCS observers think ASU will be the team to beat for the national title next season.

Judging a team on a season-opening game against North Carolina State is pretty ridiculous, too, when you consider that freshman QB Armanti Edwards played all of one series in the fourth quarter. If the Mountaineers had played NC State at any other time, they would have thumped the Wolfpack in a lot of people's minds.

Even Jeff Sagarin had Appalachian State ranked somewhere in the top 60 or so teams with his 2006 computer ratings. I've never said ASU would beat "most" FBS teams, but I'm not alone in thinking the Mountaineers would beat probably half of the FBS.

This guy has the "right" to say anything he wants about Appalachian State and the FCS. And I have the "right" to point it out when he gets something wrong.

[appfan2008]

He said that ASU had "big" losses on both sides of the line for one thing. ASU lost three defensive line starters, but if you know ANYTHING about the Mountaineers, you would know that they return a sophomore (Gary Tharrington) that started the whole season and is projected as a future All-American, another sophomore (Anthony Williams) who played about half of the time at DT last year. They also have another sophomore (Tony Robertson) who is being groomed to take Marques Murrell's place. In the 15 years I've covered ASU, there has only been one year where they were vulnerable on the defensive line (2004) and the Mountaineers have a string of All-Americans D-linemen that goes back 20 years (12 different players in that time). ASU returns four players with significant playing time on the offensive line (three starters, led by guard Kerry Brown, who is probably the best returning lineman in the FCS. This is a team that is loaded again, heading into 2007. Most FCS observers think ASU will be the team to beat for the national title next season.

Judging a team on a season-opening game against North Carolina State is pretty ridiculous, too, when you consider that freshman QB Armanti Edwards played all of one series in the fourth quarter. If the Mountaineers had played NC State at any other time, they would have thumped the Wolfpack in a lot of people's minds.

Even Jeff Sagarin had Appalachian State ranked somewhere in the top 60 or so teams with his 2006 computer ratings. I've never said ASU would beat "most" FBS teams, but I'm not alone in thinking the Mountaineers would beat probably half of the FBS.

This guy has the "right" to say anything he wants about Appalachian State and the FCS. And I have the "right" to point it out when he gets something wrong.
You're a good man C. xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Cleets]

This guy has the "right" to say anything he wants about Appalachian State and the FCS. And I have the "right" to point it out when he gets something wrong.

Agreed,
and I would argue that you should be the one to represent "us" instead of a giant dog pile from Any Given Saturday nuts like us...

But I'm probably wrong... just my 2 cents about how to deal with clowns like that...


-

[EKU05]

what you may not understand about ags is that we take this stuff seriously and we have to fight back! we cant get bad pub like that xnonox

I take it seriously too, but I think Cleets may have a point here. OTHER than the obvious mistake of calling FBS D-I (which I'll admit is like finger nails on a chalkboard to my ears) I thought this guy was reasonabley fair in his assesment.

I personally would have ranked App more in the 70s or possible even the 60s overall in Division I, but he was asked a question and gave an answer.

For the record, I have sent some NASTY emails to people defending I-AA in the past, but you have to pick your battles. This was not malicious, nor was it even a "shot" at our sub-division. The guy made a mistake that can absolutely be politely corrected. That's the end of the story right there.

[Mr. C]

I've already written to him, Cleets.

[aswedc]

I'd still call the losses significant no matter how good the players that remain are. But you've defended your opinion and I respect that.

[appfan2008]

I'd still call the losses significant no matter how good the players that remain are. But you've defended your opinion and I respect that.
I dont think you fully understand then... we have most of our linebackers coming back 3/4 of our dbs including an all american most of our wrs and obviously a damn good qb and rb... we are gonna be pretty darn good next year

[Mr. C]

The main thing is how many programs can lose All-Americans like Marques Murrell, Jeremy Wiggins, Matt Isenhour and Daniel Bettis and still have enough talent left to be ranked preseason No. 1?

[Mr. C]

I dont think you fully understand then... we have most of our linebackers coming back 3/4 of our dbs including an all american most of our wrs and obviously a damn good qb and rb... we are gonna be pretty darn good next year
Don't forget appfan that the other starting safety, Billy Riddle, is a senior who would have already been a star on almost ANY other team in the FCS. He was so good that in the spring of 2005, the Mountaineer coaching staff briefly moved Jeremy Wiggins to slot receiver, so they could get Riddle in the lineup as a starter.

[aswedc]

I don't doubt that, I'm very excited for the Michigan game - I think it might be a good one even though they will have one of the best offenses in the FBS!

Just a statement on whether the losses on the lines are "big" or not. But like I said, Mr. C has his opinion and I have mine and that's fine.

[appfan2008]

Don't forget appfan that the other starting safety, Billy Riddle, is a senior who would have already been a star on almost ANY other team in the FCS. He was so good that in the spring of 2005, the Mountaineer coaching staff briefly moved Jeremy Wiggins to slot receiver, so they could get Riddle in the lineup as a starter.
dont worry i completely understand i know billy personally, great christian guy who has come to speak at our church a few times and when he would come into the game last year you could see just how good he really was like in the wcu where he played I believe the whole time for an injured lynch

[MarkCCU]

From now on, Mr.C is the AGS Ambassador to the Written Media

[Col Hogan]

From now on, Mr.C is the AGS Ambassador to the Written Media

I second this nomination...People tend to react less violently when a peer points out a deficiency than one of us emotional fans.

[Ronbo]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/6635176

Well, it seems that some bozo named Pete Fiutak of CollegeFootballNews.com thinks that Appalachian State wasn't very good because of its season-opening loss to North Carolina State, saying it was the "only" Division I team the Mountaineers played last year. Here is the offensive paragraph from a question and answer:

Where would Appalachian State rank if they were included in the CFN 119? – JD

A: If you're talking about last season, it would've probably ranked around 90. It lost 23-10 to N.C. State in the season opener and didn't play any other D-I teams, but with that offense, it probably could've beaten most Sun Belt teams and the weaker of the non-BCS squads. If you're asking about the upcoming season, we'll know right off the bat opening up against Michigan. With the big losses on both lines, it would probably get a preseason ranking of about 95.

You have to remember the key difference between D-I and D-IAA: depth. More scholarships means more restaurant-quality athletes to stockpile and develop, and while the best of the best D-IAAers could certainly be more than just competitive in the D-I non-BCS leagues, getting through the grind of a long season would always be an issue.

I haven't tracked down this fool's email address yet, but I'll pass it along when I find it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with his statments. He's about right ranking ASU above 30-31 FBS teams. It's his opinion, nothing else.

You need a reality check Mr. C. ASU would be a bottom feeder in North Carolina State's Conference and a middle of the pack in the WAC. The Griz would too so this is not smack.

[AggiePride]

Just another day on AGS.

Keep up the good work MR. C, you are always working hard to promote FCS football and I appreciate that.

[CharlestonAppFan]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with his statments. He's about right ranking ASU above 30-31 FBS teams. It's his opinion, nothing else.

You need a reality check Mr. C. ASU would be a bottom feeder in North Carolina State's Conference and a middle of the pack in the WAC. The Griz would too so this is not smack.[B]

Now that isn't exactly fair to say. Here is what was wrote:

[B]You have to remember the key difference between D-I and D-IAA: depth. More scholarships means more restaurant-quality athletes to stockpile and develop, and while the best of the best D-IAAers could certainly be more than just competitive in the D-I non-BCS leagues, getting through the grind of a long season would always be an issue.

I would suffice to say that if App had the total number of scholarships that NC State has with the quality of talent that App brings in, then I believe it would be a different story. As it stands today, I would agree with you, App would probably be in the middle/lower tier of the teams in the ACC and probably would be in the middle in the WAC. This is only because of the scholarship debate, not the lack of talent.

Now I do think the writer is ridiculous to say that "because of the long season....". As I recall I do believe that us in FCS play more games than those in the FBS, right, including playoffs (what a novel idea)?

In my opinion, it's a great thing that we could compete and beat a lot of the teams in FBS with a lesser amount of scholarships and still be that competitive. As all of us have found out, not many FBS schools like the idea of having FCS opponents on the schedule.

[Mr. C]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with his statments. He's about right ranking ASU above 30-31 FBS teams. It's his opinion, nothing else.

You need a reality check Mr. C. ASU would be a bottom feeder in North Carolina State's Conference and a middle of the pack in the WAC. The Griz would too so this is not smack.
You have your opinion and I think your opinion is wrong (on both Appalachian State and Montana). I think either of those teams would do fine in the ACC, or the WAC, which are not exactly stellar FBS conferences. For one thing, they would have 22 MORE scholarships. Appalachian State would have stood a decent chance to beat the ACC CHAMPION last season, Wake Forest. The Mountaineers would have matched up very well with the Demonized Deacons, particularly in speed (NC State, incidently, nearly beat Wake Forest, a couple of weeks after the Pack beat ASU).

This guy also doesn't consider the impact that Armanti Edwards had at QB. Edwards is as talented as almost anyone playing QB at the FBS level and he made a major difference in the Mountaineer offense. He is basing his ranking of ASU SOLELY on the first game of the season.

You are also missing the point that this writer did say that teams like Appalachian State and Montana are NOT Division I. That was the most important oversight.

[youwouldno]

The big thing to consider is that FCS teams are always on the road against FBS. Otherwise, Ill St beats Kansas St, Furman beats North Carolina, etc.

[The Gadfly]

DAMN! I thought this was about Mr. C :( . This article isn't that bad. xcoffeex

[JALMOND]

From now on, Mr.C is the AGS Ambassador to the Written Media

I thought he already was. :D xsmiley_wix

[appfan2008]

This article isn't that bad. xcoffeex
Wake up man we have gotta stand up for our division of football

[walliver]

The only problem I see with the article is the "Division I" reference. All of the other complaints voiced here are App State specific and have nothing to do with FCS. (Which may explain why most of the complainers are ASU fans)xnodx .

[CopperCat]

You have your opinion and I think your opinion is wrong (on both Appalachian State and Montana). I think either of those teams would do fine in the ACC, or the WAC, which are not exactly stellar FBS conferences. For one thing, they would have 22 MORE scholarships. Appalachian State would have stood a decent chance to beat the ACC CHAMPION last season, Wake Forest. The Mountaineers would have matched up very well with the Demonized Deacons, particularly in speed (NC State, incidently, nearly beat Wake Forest, a couple of weeks after the Pack beat ASU).

This guy also doesn't consider the impact that Armanti Edwards had at QB. Edwards is as talented as almost anyone playing QB at the FBS level and he made a major difference in the Mountaineer offense. He is basing his ranking of ASU SOLELY on the first game of the season.

You are also missing the point that this writer did say that teams like Appalachian State and Montana are NOT Division I. That was the most important oversight.


Your bias is very clear, hence all of the above comments. Lest we forget, Wake Forest was in a BCS game. Are you saying that ASU could have been in that game and beaten WF? I would whole heartedly disagree with that.

Why don't you look around FCS a little bit more and cover other teams that have things going on? ASU is one team amongst many. Your posting is one faceted.

[CharlestonAppFan]

Your bias is very clear, hence all of the above comments. Lest we forget, Wake Forest was in a BCS game. Are you saying that ASU could have been in that game and beaten WF? I would whole heartedly disagree with that.

Why don't you look around FCS a little bit more and cover other teams that have things going on? ASU is one team amongst many. Your posting is one faceted.

The reason this thread consists mainly of App gripes and complaints is because the writer in question called our team out. Mr. C does do a good job of covering other teams in FCS. It just so happens to be that App has been the best FCS team in the country for over 2 years now, and all top teams get the most coverage and he is supplanted in Boone.

If you will read all of Mr. C's posts, he probably knows more about the total of all FCS football teams than 99% of us, and most of the sports writers out there.

[PSUVikings]

Here's Pete's e-mail... xnodx

[email protected]


xthumbsupx xnonox

[mcveyrl]

I think the main point is that this guy comes off as an authority to his readers and he's started commenting on things that he has no clue about. Anybody remotely interested in FCS would have mentioned the difference in ASU's offense when they played NC St. and at the end of the year. Other omissions have been noted.

P.S. He also didn't mention that Kevin Richardson learned about ASU from a video game...everybody knows that!!

[JMU2004]

I really don't see anything TOO wrong with this article. He was much more complimentary than most FBS journalists. What ranking would have made you ASU fans happy? Top 60? Top 40?

[CopperCat]

I really don't see anything TOO wrong with this article. He was much more complimentary than most FBS journalists. What ranking would have made you ASU fans happy? Top 60? Top 40?

Nothing makes them happy. That is why this entire AGS site is overrun by gripes, complaints, and smack due to Appy thinking they should get everything they want.

[coastalalum]

Nothing makes them happy. That is why this entire AGS site is overrun by gripes, complaints, and smack due to Appy thinking they should get everything they want.

wow! xeekx

and while i think it's unfortunate that these so-called professionals still can't get the nomenclature right, it's fairly obvious that this particular article struck C's nerve (as is obvious by him calling the guy a bozo of all things) because it didn't put asu in the light that he always does.

C continues on and splits hairs as only he can. the writer says that app sustained big losses on the lines. C even admits they lost 3 starters on the d-line...3 starters does qualify as big losses doesn't it??? C maintains that all of the reserves make up for these losses, but that's not what the writer was talking about. Pete only reported a fact (they sustained big losses on the lines) and C jumped to a conclusion to defend his beloved's honor. app's play on the field gives them all the cred they need, they don't need C making sure everyone gives them the respect they deserve.

further, any of the other stuff written would qualify as Pete's opinion...and how can we fault a guy for writing his opinion. we all do this here daily. i'm sure C loves the fact that he's able to make a living taking facts and mixing it with his opinion (while occasionally making an error along the way)...so why can't he let Pete do the same? disagree or give constructive criticism?...yes. sending him an email making him aware of the error?...absolutely. publicly label a peer a bozo...not cool.

[*****]

... I'll never understand why people get so upset about a name.Because it is OUR NAME! I have written probably 1K emails to organizations and writers since November as the publisher of College Sporting News, gently reminding them that they got it wrong.

Pete has a long history of it and he has been the focus of many threads here. This is not the first time, newbies, that this has happened with him. Longtime AGSers know about this guy and it long ago came to the point where it is understood he does this on purpose.

I know Pete, I have had lunch with him. He knows I think he is someone who only considers FBS as Division I with everything else being a footnote. His constant slaps at FCS need to be addressed EACH AND EVERY TIME. He wears it as a badge foolishly.

Pete, nice guy but a schmuck of a "College Football" writer.

xtwocentsx

[TulsaBobcat]

Appalachian State would have stood a decent chance to beat the ACC CHAMPION last season, Wake Forest. The Mountaineers would have matched up very well with the Demonized Deacons, particularly in speed (NC State, incidently, nearly beat Wake Forest, a couple of weeks after the Pack beat ASU).


OMG! xlolx at that statement.

I get sick and tired of FCS fans having Napoleon Complex (a.k.a. Little Man's Disease). FCS football is what it is. Quit with the comparative scoring index; the "well if we played them at home we would have won"; the "if Armanti Edwards would have played", the "we're just as good as they are." No, you're not!

Here are the facts: ASU lost to NC State. ASU was one of NC State's three wins last year. NC State was one of the worst teams in the ACC. Appy would suck in the ACC!

Here's an idea, win on the field at Michigan this fall and then you can talk. Until then, you are not proven to be better than ANY FBS teams. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't better than them until you beat them.

Open your eyes man. It's always, shoulda, coulda, woulda. Just do it.

On a side note, Mr. C's ire was certainly drawn due to the fact that this journalist doesn't think ASU is as good as ASU and Mr. C thinks they are.

[Mr. C]

wow! xeekx

and while i think it's unfortunate that these so-called professionals still can't get the nomenclature right, it's fairly obvious that this particular article struck C's nerve (as is obvious by him calling the guy a bozo) because it didn't put asu in the light that he always does.
This has NOTHING to do with Appalachian State, other than the fact ASU was the school singled out. If he had written something off-base about Montana or UMass, James Madison, Northern Iowa, or anyone else in FCS, I would called him out. I just took a guy from Newsday to task a couple of weeks ago about something he he wrote about Hofstra and Stony Brook. One of my most famous defenses of I-AA was several years ago when a writer covering Wyoming wrote about how All-American linebacker Will Bouton was one of the few Division I players playing for Furman. I wrote a column about that, which was one of the first things I had published for what became I-AA.org. I've been on this bandwagon for years now and will defend FCS whether we're talking about Appalachian State or Savannah State.

[coastalalum]

your defense of fcs is greatly appreciated...and no one can deny that you know your stuff.

just stating my opinion.

[Mr. C]

Your bias is very clear, hence all of the above comments. Lest we forget, Wake Forest was in a BCS game. Are you saying that ASU could have been in that game and beaten WF? I would whole heartedly disagree with that.

Why don't you look around FCS a little bit more and cover other teams that have things going on? ASU is one team amongst many. Your posting is one faceted.
If you knew anything about the Appalachian State-Wake Forest rivalry, you might share my opinion.

Fact: Appalachian State and Wake Forest used to meet just about every year. Playing every time in Winston-Salem, ASU won three of the last five times the teams played. ASU gave Wake Forest fits and when new coach Jim Grobe arrived he quickly decided to drop ASU from the schedule. I don't care whether Wake Forest was in a BCS game or not, the Deacons squeeked by in a lot of their games and from anyone who knows their talent level, you would know that ASU was very comparable. ASU's speed in particular was FAR superior to Wake Forest's. Wake Forest almost lost to Duke (a shutout loser to FCS member Richmond and winless on the season) and North Carolina State. The Deacons also struggled to put away North Carolina (a team thar Furman outplayed and narrowly lost to). It's not too much to think ASU could have beaten Wake Forest.

[mvemjsunpx]

Originally Posted by JMU2004
I really don't see anything TOO wrong with this article. He was much more complimentary than most FBS journalists. What ranking would have made you ASU fans happy? Top 60? Top 40?

I think something around #60 is fair (& I'm not an App. St. fan).

There is a lot more overlap between the college football divisions than most people think. D-III's & NAIA's often beat mid-major FCS/I-AA teams, D-II's often beat full-scholarsip FCS'ers, & FCS teams sometimes beat BCS FBS teams (there are way too many acronyms now xeyebrowx ) Hell, 2 I-AA playoff teams in 2003 had both D-II losses and I-A wins (Montana lost to NDSU, beat Idaho; Florida Atlantic beat Middle Tennessee, lost badly to Valdosta St.)

In my estimation, The I-AA/FCS champion, on average, is better than at least half the I-A/FBS teams. Granted, the records between the 2 divisions don't show that. I think there are a few reasons for that, however. First, the FBS teams are virtually always at home. Second, FCS teams more often play the BCS conference teams, not mid-major FBS'ers (the paycheck is bigger). And third, losses to FBS teams are largely ignored at the end of the year, so the lower division schools don't usually consider them very important ("let's just collect the money and not get injured").

[OB55]

A shocker to many, they all put their pants on one leg at a time, they all are about the same age ('cept BYU), and the game is still more mental than physical.xcoolx

[CopperCat]

If you knew anything about the Appalachian State-Wake Forest rivalry, you might share my opinion.

Fact: Appalachian State and Wake Forest used to meet just about every year. Playing every time in Winston-Salem, ASU won three of the last five times the teams played. ASU gave Wake Forest fits and when new coach Jim Grobe arrived he quickly decided to drop ASU from the schedule. I don't care whether Wake Forest was in a BCS game or not, the Deacons squeeked by in a lot of their games and from anyone who knows their talent level, you would know that ASU was very comparable. ASU's speed in particular was FAR superior to Wake Forest's. Wake Forest almost lost to Duke (a shutout loser to FCS member Richmond and winless on the season) and North Carolina State. The Deacons also struggled to put away North Carolina (a team thar Furman outplayed and narrowly lost to). It's not too much to think ASU could have beaten Wake Forest.

History doesn't always dictate the future, so don't go and point fingers at other teams to explain why App SHOULD HAVE beat Wake.

And the last time I checked, winning is winning. Ask your fellow ASU brethren. They waste no time in telling anyone that.xrolleyesx

[*****]

... I get sick and tired of FCS fans...There's the smack board BowlBoy-------->

[*****]

Nothing makes them happy. That is why this entire AGS site is overrun by gripes, complaints, and smack...There's the smack board ------>

[appfan2008]

History doesn't always dictate the future, so don't go and point fingers at other teams to explain why App SHOULD HAVE beat Wake.

And the last time I checked, winning is winning. Ask your fellow ASU brethren. They waste no time in telling anyone that.xrolleyesx
Too bad you dont understand the dynamics of college football in this area... you really should listen to the local sports writer on this

[CopperCat]

Too bad you dont understand the dynamics of college football in this area... you really should listen to the local sports writer on this

And who might that be so that I might be enlightened like your holiness?

[TulsaBobcat]

There's the smack board BowlBoy-------->

Smack? Come on. FCS fans must accept FCS football for what it is; the SECOND highest level of collegiate football in the nation. If it makes you feel better, there are three levels of college football below the FCS.

Secondly, when did I become a proponent of bowls? Just because I realize that FBS football teams are more talented than FCS teams does not mean I am a fan of bowl games.

[TulsaBobcat]

And who might that be so that I might be enlightened like your holiness?

Mr. C.............xwhistlex

[appfan2008]

And who might that be so that I might be enlightened like your holiness?
wow... as tulsa has already and obviously pointed out that would be MR. C... you dummy... come on man we dont need to waste time asking questions like that we all know who Mr. C is!

[*****]

Smack? Come on. FCS fans must accept FCS football for what it is; the SECOND highest level of collegiate football in the nation...Wrong. It is the highest level of NCAA Championship football, that is the name.


NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL
CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION

You can moan and beech all you want but Pete got it wrong again. He needs to know that we are paying attention.

[appfan2008]

Wrong. It is the highest level of NCAA Championship football, that is the name.


NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL
CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION

You can moan and beech all you want but Pete got it wrong again. He needs to know that we are paying attention.
wow... truly for the first time ever ralph and appfan2008 agree on something!:p xnodx :p :D

[*****]

Anyone remember Pete does that "cupcake" preview article every year about the BS? Remember he called New Hampshire, Northwestern's cupcake? I was there and saw the UNH Wildcats completely and utterly destroy Northwestern.

[appfan2008]

This guy sure seems like quite the ignorant man who thinks he knows it all

[SoCon48]

OMG! xlolx at that statement.

I get sick and tired of FCS fans having Napoleon Complex (a.k.a. Little Man's Disease). FCS football is what it is. Quit with the comparative scoring index; the "well if we played them at home we would have won"; the "if Armanti Edwards would have played", the "we're just as good as they are." No, you're not!

Here are the facts: ASU lost to NC State. ASU was one of NC State's three wins last year. NC State was one of the worst teams in the ACC. Appy would suck in the ACC!

Here's an idea, win on the field at Michigan this fall and then you can talk. Until then, you are not proven to be better than ANY FBS teams. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't better than them until you beat them.

Open your eyes man. It's always, shoulda, coulda, woulda. Just do it.

On a side note, Mr. C's ire was certainly drawn due to the fact that this journalist doesn't think ASU is as good as ASU and Mr. C thinks they are.
Here's an idea, win on the field at Michigan this fall and then you can talk. Until then, you are not proven to be better than ANY FBS teams. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't better than them until you beat them


Now that is downright silly. Michigan is in a separate category than most of the rest of the FBS teams. How many FBS teams will beat Michigan this year? And the ones that don't, does that mean they actually belong in FCS instead or are only on the level of ASU?
And all the teams that ASU beat this year are really supposed to be in Div II?

[Mr. C]

OMG! xlolx at that statement.

I get sick and tired of FCS fans having Napoleon Complex (a.k.a. Little Man's Disease). FCS football is what it is. Quit with the comparative scoring index; the "well if we played them at home we would have won"; the "if Armanti Edwards would have played", the "we're just as good as they are." No, you're not!

Here are the facts: ASU lost to NC State. ASU was one of NC State's three wins last year. NC State was one of the worst teams in the ACC. Appy would suck in the ACC!

Here's an idea, win on the field at Michigan this fall and then you can talk. Until then, you are not proven to be better than ANY FBS teams. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't better than them until you beat them.

Open your eyes man. It's always, shoulda, coulda, woulda. Just do it.

On a side note, Mr. C's ire was certainly drawn due to the fact that this journalist doesn't think ASU is as good as ASU and Mr. C thinks they are.
You dude are pretty clueless. If you don't think a player who is one of SIX players in Division I history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 in a single season wouldn't have made a difference, you really don't know much about college football. The fact (if you had seen the NC State game in person, like I did, you would have known this) was that NC State put almost everybody in the box against ASU and stopped the Mountaineers' productive rushing attack, because they had a QB (Trey Elder) starting with a surgically-repaired shoulder (operated on less than TWO months before the NC State game), who couldn't threaten them with the passing game (a very good James Madison team did the same the following week, but couldn't generate enough offense to beat ASU). With Edwards in the starting lineup, the Mountaineers averaged 41 points per game. Only one team (Wofford) held them to less than 27 points in those 13 games.

I wouldn't have written a thing to this writer if he had simply stated his opinion about where ASU should have been ranked. What got my "ire" up was the fact he said ASU and all of those other teams were not Division I.

[mcveyrl]

(a very good James Madison team did the same the following week, but couldn't generate enough offense to beat ASU).

To further illustrate Mr. C's point, Edwards ran all over JMU when he was in. For one, he's too fast, and second, we weren't ready for him. If he's in the NC St. game, it is DEFINITELY a different ballgame (not saying they win, but ASU is a different team with him in there).

[TulsaBobcat]

You dude are pretty clueless. If you don't think a player who is one of SIX players in Division I history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 in a single season wouldn't have made a difference, you really don't know much about college football. The fact (if you had seen the NC State game in person, like I did, you would have known this) was that NC State put almost everybody in the box against ASU and stopped the Mountaineers' productive rushing attack, because they had a QB (Trey Elder) starting with a surgically-repaired shoulder (operated on less than TWO months before the NC State game), who couldn't threaten them with the passing game (a very good James Madison team did the same the following week, but couldn't generate enough offense to beat ASU). With Edwards in the starting lineup, the Mountaineers averaged 41 points per game. Only one team (Wofford) held them to less than 27 points in those 13 games.

I wouldn't have written a thing to this writer if he had simply stated his opinion about where ASU should have been ranked. What got my "ire" up was the fact he said ASU and all of those other teams were not Division I.

Sorry dude, I'm not clueless. Never did I say that it wouldn't have been a different game. I was just giving examples of all the excuses that are made when FCS teams lose to FBS teams.

The fact remains, ASU lost! It may have been a different game, but you still lose. It doesn't matter what would have happened if he played. He didn't play! It's easy to say what would have happened. "What if my grandma had wheels?"

Just because you are a writer for ASU doesn't mean you have a corner on the college football "knowledge market" and your insults don't do much for your already severely tarnished image. In fact, I bet there are more people who follow college football that would agree with me on the subject than you.

[appfan2008]

Sorry dude, I'm not clueless. Never did I say that it wouldn't have been a different game. I was just giving examples of all the excuses that are made when FCS teams lose to FBS teams.

The fact remains, ASU lost! It may have been a different game, but you still lose. It doesn't matter what would have happened if he played. He didn't play! It's easy to say what would have happened. "What if my grandma had wheels?"

Just because you are a writer for ASU doesn't mean you have a corner on the college football "knowledge market" and your insults don't do much for your already severely tarnished image. In fact, I bet there are more people who follow college football that would agree with me on the subject than you.
says who... I dont think anyone thinks that it is severly tarnished or tarnished at all

[appfan2008]

Sorry dude, I'm not clueless. Never did I say that it wouldn't have been a different game. I was just giving examples of all the excuses that are made when FCS teams lose to FBS teams.

The fact remains, ASU lost! It may have been a different game, but you still lose. It doesn't matter what would have happened if he played. He didn't play! It's easy to say what would have happened. "What if my grandma had wheels?"

Just because you are a writer for ASU doesn't mean you have a corner on the college football "knowledge market" and your insults don't do much for your already severely tarnished image. In fact, I bet there are more people who follow college football that would agree with me on the subject than you.
Lets see them... Actions to back up those words sure would be nice

[TulsaBobcat]

Here's an idea, win on the field at Michigan this fall and then you can talk. Until then, you are not proven to be better than ANY FBS teams. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't better than them until you beat them


Now that is downright silly. Michigan is in a separate category than most of the rest of the FBS teams. How many FBS teams will beat Michigan this year? And the ones that don't, does that mean they actually belong in FCS instead or are only on the level of ASU?
And all the teams that ASU beat this year are really supposed to be in Div II?

No, it isn't silly.

My statement about beating Michigan was meant to reiterate the fact that excuses are given and "what ifs" are in play when an FBS team beats an FCS team. If an FCS team beats an FBS team, no excuses are needed. Fans of the FCS team can then talk about how they are better than an FBS team. After the victory it is a fact that the FCS team is better.

Comparing teams in separate divisions is silly unless they actually compete against each other. I think it is a stretch to say that ASU could have beaten the ACC champion.

[TulsaBobcat]

Lets see them... Actions to back up those words sure would be nice

xrolleyesx

[appfan2008]

xrolleyesx
I am serious... people would back Mr. C up so much faster than they would back you up that it aint even funny... your lack of knowledge is astounding

[TulsaBobcat]

says who... I dont think anyone thinks that it is severly tarnished or tarnished at all

You must have missed the dust-up between Mr. C. and Montana fans a couple of years ago. You must have also missed the drama between MSU fans and Mr. C. In any event, he certainly isn't doing much to improve his image.

[appfan2008]

You must have missed the dust-up between Mr. C. and Montana fans a couple of years ago. You must have also missed the drama between MSU fans and Mr. C. In any event, he certainly isn't doing much to improve his image.
Next time I read a column with your name as the author I will be impressed until then... SHUTUP!

[TulsaBobcat]

I am serious... people would back Mr. C up so much faster than they would back you up that it aint even funny... your lack of knowledge is astounding

Wow. You think the majority of college football fans think that App State could have beaten the ACC champ? Where are you from? Oh, nevermind.

[TulsaBobcat]

Next time I read a column with your name as the author I will be impressed until then... SHUTUP!

Are you drunk?

Is not this thread about a college football columnist? A columnist that you bash. You can't have it both ways. Are columnists the be-all and end-all of football knowledge, or are they idiots as the thread title suggests? You would think that because the man had his name on a column you would be singing his praises as well.

[TulsaBobcat]

Wrong. It is the highest level of NCAA Championship football, that is the name.


NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL
CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION

You can moan and beech all you want but Pete got it wrong again. He needs to know that we are paying attention.

You are right, but it is still the SECOND highest level of college football in the United States. You cannot escape that fact.

[*****]

... Comparing teams in separate divisions is silly...uh, did you know that you are comparing teams that ARE IN THE SAME DIVISION? Man, you have dug yourself a deep hole and just keep on digging. Just like those Montana and MSU folks did. Who were they? Where are they? Who are you? You don't even display a team affinity. Go take your stuff to smack. This board is for knowledgable FCS discussion. Say hi to Pete for me over there. xrolleyesx

[TulsaBobcat]

uh, did you know that you are comparing teams that ARE IN THE SAME DIVISION? Man, you have dug yourself a deep hole and just keep on digging. Just like those Montana and MSU folks did. Who were they? Where are they? Who are you? You don't even display a team affinity. Go take your stuff to smack. This board is for knowledgable FCS discussion. Say hi to Pete for me over there. xrolleyesx

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Okay they are both Division I, they are in different "sub-divisions".

My team allegiance is to Montana State, hence the Bobcat in my handle. It's amazing how hostile some on this board become when others disagree. Especially on this topic.

Besides that Ralph, you should know who I am. I sent you a PM about a month ago with my real name attached to it.

[appfan2008]

uh, did you know that you are comparing teams that ARE IN THE SAME DIVISION? Man, you have dug yourself a deep hole and just keep on digging. Just like those Montana and MSU folks did. Who were they? Where are they? Who are you? You don't even display a team affinity. Go take your stuff to smack. This board is for knowledgable FCS discussion. Say hi to Pete for me over there. xrolleyesx
xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx

[appfan2008]

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Okay they are both Division I, they are in different "sub-divisions".

My team allegiance is to Montana State, hence the Bobcat in my handle. It's amazing how hostile some on this board become when others disagree. Especially on this topic.

Besides that Ralph, you should know who I am. I sent you a PM about a month ago with my real name attached to it.
oh woah ... wait a minute... a PM a month ago? ohhhh somebody is special now!xcoffeex

[*****]

... It's amazing how hostile some on this board become when others disagree. Especially on this topic. Besides that Ralph, you should know who I am. I sent you a PM about a month ago with my real name attached to it.Oh yeah, now I remember. :o You are OK in my book but you should have known what you were doing here....

When these writers like Pete bash FCS teams and get the name wrong they are taken to task here. There was no reason for him to do that. And when a member here comes up and says stuff like you're saying it does get hostile. We are not on this board to glorify bowl ball, we celebrate Championship ball. The only reasons, THE ONLY ONES, they are better is because of the extra scholarships, playing always at home and media fawning they get (which gets them more high profile players). Otherwise you'll hear again and again that the play is not much different in quality. Mr. C did what all of us do, stood up for the FCS team. Doesn't really matter which one because they are ALL OUR TEAMS. Spell our name wrong, we're gonna let you know it. Bash us unfairly and here come the emails.

It's what we can do here at AGS for OUR GAME.

[TulsaBobcat]

Oh yeah, now I remember. :o

Yeah, when these writers like Pete bash FCS teams and get the name wrong they are taken to task here. There was no reason for him to do that. And when a member here comes up and says stuff like you're saying it does get hostile. We are not on this board to glorify bowl ball, we celebrate Championship ball. The only reasons, THE ONLY ONES, they are better is because of the extra scholarships, playing always at home and media fawning they get (which gets them more high profile players). Otherwise you'll hear again and again that the play is not much different in quality. Mr. C did what all of us do, stood up for the FCS team. Doesn't really matter which one because they are ALL OUR TEAMS. Spell our name wrong, we're gonna let you know it. Bash us unfairly and here come the emails.

It's what we can do here at AGS for OUR GAME.

Thank you for your reasoned response.

[*****]

Thank you for your reasoned response.Sorry that I'm so forgetful. Reminds me that the thread last year when Pete wrote that column on how I-A should never play I-AA was started by Mr. C. Notice he asks in the opening of this thread who Pete is? xlolx xlolx Man, we are getting old! :)

[Mr. C]

Sorry dude, I'm not clueless. Never did I say that it wouldn't have been a different game. I was just giving examples of all the excuses that are made when FCS teams lose to FBS teams.

The fact remains, ASU lost! It may have been a different game, but you still lose. It doesn't matter what would have happened if he played. He didn't play! It's easy to say what would have happened. "What if my grandma had wheels?"

Just because you are a writer for ASU doesn't mean you have a corner on the college football "knowledge market" and your insults don't do much for your already severely tarnished image. In fact, I bet there are more people who follow college football that would agree with me on the subject than you.
I wish that Ralph had GPI ratings for FBS teams, so we could break down teams like Appalachian State, North Carolina State and Wake Forest more accurately.

But we do have the Sagarin ratings. Is Sagarin making excuses when his computer says that Appalachian State was the 53rd best team in Division I football last season? North Carolina State was ranked 75th, even with the win over Appalachian State. His computer saw ASU beating NC State by about a touchdown at the conclusion of the season. He would have favored Wake Forest by eight points over ASU, but it isn't unreasonable to think that the Mountaineers could have beaten a team favored by eight points. And considering that ASU has won every game (27 straight) at home for the past four years, you would have to FAVOR the Mountaineers if they played the game at home. The last time that a bowl-bound Wake Forest team played Appalachian State in Winston-Salem, it was the Mountaineers who came away with the victory. And that ASU team wasn't nearly as good as this one. What you don't realize is that games at Groves Stadium generally have MORE Appalachian State fans than Wake Forest fans. Those games have been among the highest attended games at Wake Forest almost every year they have been played.

And call me arrogant, rant about my tarnished image (whatever that means), or whatever else you might want to hurl at me. I'll match my knowledge of the FCS up against anyone.

[Mr. C]

Sorry that I'm so forgetful. Reminds me that the thread last year when Pete wrote that column on how I-A should never play I-AA was started by Mr. C. Notice he asks in the opening of this thread who Pete is? xlolx xlolx Man, we are getting old! :)
I'm not claiming to getting old just yet (though OL FU might playfully disagree :D). Pete just didn't register with me on that earlier article. There are so many guys like that out there that I lose track of them over time.

By the way, I haven't heard back from Pete on this one. Has anyone else gotten a message back from him?

[The Gadfly]

xboringx
xdeadhorsex
xdizzyx

FCS: The Libertarians of college football

[AppSteeler]

Pete = FCS hater.

[appfan2008]

By the way, I haven't heard back from Pete on this one. Has anyone else gotten a message back from him?
NO

[CopperCat]

Oh yeah, now I remember. :o You are OK in my book but you should have known what you were doing here....

When these writers like Pete bash FCS teams and get the name wrong they are taken to task here. There was no reason for him to do that. And when a member here comes up and says stuff like you're saying it does get hostile. We are not on this board to glorify bowl ball, we celebrate Championship ball. The only reasons, THE ONLY ONES, they are better is because of the extra scholarships, playing always at home and media fawning they get (which gets them more high profile players). Otherwise you'll hear again and again that the play is not much different in quality. Mr. C did what all of us do, stood up for the FCS team. Doesn't really matter which one because they are ALL OUR TEAMS. Spell our name wrong, we're gonna let you know it. Bash us unfairly and here come the emails.

It's what we can do here at AGS for OUR GAME.

These statements do not make any sense in the same context.

[appfan2008]

yes it does... i am sorry you arent smart enough to figure it out