Record-setting WR must break 4.5 40 to get a look

[UNHWildCats]

By Paul Attner - SportingNews (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/tsn/nfl/article/SIG=10tmms2oa/*http://www.sportingnews.com)

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/cn/headshots/paul_attner.jpghttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/p/sportingnews_lo_70x24_2.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/tsn/nfl/article/SIG=11025kss8/*http%3A//www.sportingnews.com/)


What bothers David Ball is that he still looks so ordinary. He thought it would be different. By now, he thought he would have already made a telling impression on NFL scouts, that all this nonsense about his being too slow would be erased as soon as he showed he could run 40 yards in 4.5 seconds or less.

One problem with his plan: He has yet to get faster. "I know they still are looking at me as just another average receiver wanting a chance," he says with disgust. "I don't want to be average. I don't want them thinking, 'Let's give this kid a shot.' I want to earn some franchise's respect so they really want me. That still can happen."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=recordsettingwrmustbreak&prov=tsn&type=lgns

[spelunker64]

Jerry Rice ran like 4.60 40

[UNHWildCats]

1980s football isnt 2007 football :p

I think some team will see him on the baord in the 5th round and say "hell he had that nagging injury that prevented him from a good 40 time lets take him and hope for the best"

[spelunker64]

Don't the Pats need a WR? ;)

[UNHWildCats]

long term yes 2007 no.

They went out and signed Kelly Washington and Stallworth to some eye popping contracts but the structure is based tht they will both bet cut after the season. So the Patriots could look at Ball but he would likely get very limited to no playing time in 2007

the patriots have like 8 WR under contract and Bellichick said lsat week Troy Brown is also in the teams plans for 2007.

[Mr. C]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.

[spelunker64]

long term yes 2007 no.

They went out and signed Kelly Washington and Stallworth to some eye popping contracts but the structure is based tht they will both bet cut after the season. So the Patriots could look at Ball but he would likely get very limited to no playing time in 2007

the patriots have like 8 WR under contract and Bellichick said lsat week Troy Brown is also in the teams plans for 2007.

I know I was joking. I'm guessing Reche will be cut.

[spelunker64]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.


I think Jarrett or Ball would look good in a Bolts uni. We need WRs

[UNHWildCats]

are you kidding he led the team in recieving last season and if he plays not being under pressure top be the #1 WR he could be a strong WR

[spelunker64]

are you kidding he led the team in recieving last season and if he plays not being under pressure top be the #1 WR he could be a strong WR

I remember to many fumbles and dropped balls in his SD years I guess. Fine Keep him.xrolleyesx xsmiley_wix

[UNHWildCats]

the WR listing looks like this

Rechee Caldwell
Chad Jackson
Jabar Gaffney
Kelvin Kight
Bam Childress
Wes Welker
Kelly Washington
Donte' Stallworth

Troy Brown is likely to resign

[spelunker64]

Here's how I see it, talent wise. xrolleyesx


Donte' Stallworth
Kelly Washington
Wes Welker
Rechee Caldwell
Chad Jackson
Jabar Gaffney
Kelvin Kight
Bam Childress

[UNHWildCats]

looks about right. Jackson could move up with a strong camp. he had nagging hamstring injuries all year last season.

[smallcollegefbfan]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.

I agree with you that Ball is a great player but you can't say he is better than Calvin Johnson.

Calvin Johnson is hands down the best WR in the nation. Ball is nowhere near what athlete Johnson is. Ball is just a great player who is tough and will impress you in training camp.

What is funny about players supposedly dropping is that many times people say that and when GMs are interviewed they sometimes point out how funny it is that the media portrays a player dropping who never dropped on their board.

Ball is a good player but unless he hits a low 4.6 at least I don't see a team taking him until the 6th round.

[spelunker64]

I don't think anyone is comparing Ball or any other reciever to Johnson. CJ is in a class of his own.

[Mr. C]

I agree with you that Ball is a great player but you can't say he is better than Calvin Johnson.

Calvin Johnson is hands down the best WR in the nation. Ball is nowhere near what athlete Johnson is. Ball is just a great player who is tough and will impress you in training camp.

What is funny about players supposedly dropping is that many times people say that and when GMs are interviewed they sometimes point out how funny it is that the media portrays a player dropping who never dropped on their board.

Ball is a good player but unless he hits a low 4.6 at least I don't see a team taking him until the 6th round.
Give me a stinking break! I NEVER said Ball was BETTER than Calvin Johnson. I just said I'd take Ball over any WR (I wasn't even thinking about Johnson at the time). Johnson is going No. 1 in the draft, so it is a moot point that he isn't going to be around for anyone else. Of course Johnson is in a class by himself.

But the fact is the way that the NFL judges talent is ASININE. It is ALL based on these silly little tests and timing things that are not football. Sorry that this hits close to home, but think about all of the guys that these personnel folks miss on. Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL. He was almost TOTALLY overlooked. Kurt Warner was a two-time NFL MVP, won a Super Bowl and played in another Super Bowl. You know his story. Anyone who judges whether David Ball can play or not, based on his 40 time is a MORON! These people are so concerned with not making mistakes that they draft TOO conservatively and miss on a lot of players. These are the guys that will draft Heath Shuler or Ryan Leaf and then see some free agent have a better career. It's why Jerry Rice and Dan Marino and Randy Moss are drafted way too late and then end up beating the teams that overlooked them. You are so wrapped up in this draft stuff that you are falling prey to the same dumb system that misses the mark so frequently.

Trust me, the team that picks up David Ball will be getting a winner.

[MACHIAVELLI]

"So many people have been putting a pimple on the 40," said Jarrett, who ran in a black-and-gold, Michael Johnson-like track suit that Nike designed for him. "I just went out there, worked and did what I was supposed to do and am happy with the results. I'm a big receiver. I think around that time is pretty good."

Jarrett's pass-catching workout wasn't smooth, either. His cuts weren't nearly as sharp as Smith, and he slipped and fell on one. A scout for an AFC team described Jarrett, who is 6-foot-5 and 214 pounds, as stiff.

Yet while several Trojans saw their stock plummet before last year's draft, some NFL evaluators said Jarrett's work on the field over the last three years, when he caught a Pacific-10 Conference record 41 touchdown passes, would carry the most weight. Most saw him as a late first-round pick.



http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/articles/6764032.html

[jmuroller]

It's why Jerry Rice and Dan Marino and Randy Moss are drafted way too late and then end up beating the teams that overlooked them.


Easy there Mr C.

Randy Moss ran a sub 4.4 40 in freezing temperatures outside a day after it snowed 4 inches his senior year. He warmed up inside, ran a couple 100's to get ready, ran ONE 40 at something like 4.38 and then called it a day. He was easily deemed the best WR in the draft that year, but his history really hurt him. Teams were hesitant to take him because he was kicked out of Florida St, not allowed to come to Notre Dame because he got in trouble his senior year, then had numerous police run ins at Marshall that were swept under the run at the time.

Marino's draft status plummeted because he had a horrible senior year compared to his Junior year. Also, there were tons of rumors going around that he had terrible knees(which were partially true) and needed surgeries on both of them before long. It also didn't help that two QB's named Elway and Kelly were also in that draft.

About Ball....I think he will get drafted right where he should...somewhere between the 5th and 7th. I don't his NFL stock is necessarily hurting because of his 40 time, it's just that it isn't HELPING at all. For him to move up into the 2nd-4th rounds he needs to show his speed. Thats just the name of the game. Can someone succeed without having blazing speed? Of course...but there are way more busts than there are success stories when it comes to the NFL and speed (or lack of).

[Mr. C]

And Moss nearly led the Vikings to the Super Bowl as a rookie. Marino had the same impact. The fact is that NFL personnel folks miss all of the time on players.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Give me a stinking break! I NEVER said Ball was BETTER than Calvin Johnson. I just said I'd take Ball over any WR (I wasn't even thinking about Johnson at the time). Johnson is going No. 1 in the draft, so it is a moot point that he isn't going to be around for anyone else. Of course Johnson is in a class by himself.

But the fact is the way that the NFL judges talent is ASININE. It is ALL based on these silly little tests and timing things that are not football. Sorry that this hits close to home, but think about all of the guys that these personnel folks miss on. Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL. He was almost TOTALLY overlooked. Kurt Warner was a two-time NFL MVP, won a Super Bowl and played in another Super Bowl. You know his story. Anyone who judges whether David Ball can play or not, based on his 40 time is a MORON! These people are so concerned with not making mistakes that they draft TOO conservatively and miss on a lot of players. These are the guys that will draft Heath Shuler or Ryan Leaf and then see some free agent have a better career. It's why Jerry Rice and Dan Marino and Randy Moss are drafted way too late and then end up beating the teams that overlooked them. You are so wrapped up in this draft stuff that you are falling prey to the same dumb system that misses the mark so frequently.

Trust me, the team that picks up David Ball will be getting a winner.

I was messing with you some. I know what you meant. Just making sure people don't forget Calvin. Hard to do that though dont you think? :D

Ball will be a good player. You can't measure pure skill just by a 40 time.

[Peems]

And Moss nearly led the Vikings to the Super Bowl as a rookie. Marino had the same impact. The fact is that NFL personnel folks miss all of the time on players.

Exactly. I hope Moss ends up in Green Bay. For all his problems I really like him and think with Favre he could light it up.

[Col Hogan]

When I think of David Ball, Wayne Chrebet comes to mind. Not the fastest, or biggest guy out there.

But he's the most disciplined route runner I've seen in college recently. Chrebet ran where the QB was going to put the ball...and caught it. That's Ball...and any NFL team should be looking for a guy like that.

Some team will get a little golden nugget if they draft or sign David Ball.....

[kardplayer]

And Moss nearly led the Vikings to the Super Bowl as a rookie. Marino had the same impact. The fact is that NFL personnel folks miss all of the time on players.

In the end though, Moss over the past few years (2? 3?) has become exactly the contributor (note I didn't say player) that folks thought he would be - great skills, more trouble than he's worth.

They were right that he'd be a problem, they just had the timing wrong.

[spelunker64]

In the end though, Moss over the past few years (2? 3?) has become exactly the contributor (note I didn't say player) that folks thought he would be - great skills, more trouble than he's worth.

They were right that he'd be a problem, they just had the timing wrong.

Lucky enough for the Vikes, damn that Gary Anderson.

[JMU_Fan_2007]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.




Over Calvin Johnson? Really?

[spelunker64]

Over Calvin Johnson? Really?

As he said before, no, not over Calvin Johnson.xrulesx

CJ's in a class of his own. xnodx

[catbob]

Ball would be a nice addition to the Rams roster. :D

We got Bruce, Holt and recent singee Drew Bennett, but beyond that there isn't any standouts.

You have:
Dane Looker (he isn't too bad)

Then a bunch of guys I've never even heard of!

Bruce is getting very old, and Holt ain't no kid anymore either.

[wildcat_fan]

I'm totally biased, of course, but I would like to see the Patriots draft David Ball. Even if he doesn't get a lot of playing time because of their recent off-season acquisitions, it would be great to see him in a Patriots uniform. I think he would be a perfect fit for the organization.

[Peems]

Ball would be a nice addition to the Rams roster. :D

We got Bruce, Holt and recent singee Drew Bennett, but beyond that there isn't any standouts.

You have:
Dane Looker (he isn't too bad)

Then a bunch of guys I've never even heard of!

Bruce is getting very old, and Holt ain't no kid anymore either.

Sir Isaac is about as old as Isaac Newton now. Holt has still got some years in him.

Back to Moss, the reason he has been s&it the last few is because the Raiders have been ***** the last few as well. It's hard to do anything when A) your QB sucks B) your running game sucks C) No other receivers around you(porter came on a little too late) and D) you have a horrible, terrible, no good Line.

[spelunker64]

Sir Isaac is about as old as Isaac Newton now. Holt has still got some years in him.

Back to Moss, the reason he has been s&it the last few is because the Raiders have been ***** the last few as well. It's hard to do anything when A) your QB sucks B) your running game sucks C) No other receivers around you(porter came on a little too late) and D) you have a horrible, terrible, no good Line.

not to mention having a nagging ankle injury all year.

[KJ Eagle]

I seem to remember a running back from GSU that set one or two xsmiley_wix records that dropped all the way down to the 6th round. It's not surprising that the draft "experts" don't have Ball that highly ranked. They never give very many FCS players a chance. I think if he is given a chance, he will surprise a lot of people.

[Calilumber]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.

Dude, the NFL puts players in a box and makes it very difficult to get out. Listen to this proday 4.36, 21 reps, 39 vert, RB from a small school 5-10 202 pds. Undrafted goes FA to Cards, released before any preseason games. Sits at home all season and doesn't get called. Goes to NFLE and sets three rushing records. Comes back to Cards and gets released. I thought this was great news, better teams will come calling.......... nothing, nobody, nada............... What gives? NFL Player personnel will not take a chance on a non/black scat back, no matter what he does on the field or in workouts.

[dbackjon]

Dude, the NFL puts players in a box and makes it very difficult to get out. Listen to this proday 4.36, 21 reps, 39 vert, RB from a small school 5-10 202 pds. Undrafted goes FA to Cards, released before any preseason games. Sits at home all season and doesn't get called. Goes to NFLE and sets three rushing records. Comes back to Cards and gets released. I thought this was great news, better teams will come calling.......... nothing, nobody, nada............... What gives? NFL Player personnel will not take a chance on a non/black scat back, no matter what he does on the field or in workouts.

How is Roger doing? I had hoped the Cardinals would have kept him around this year.

[Calilumber]

How is Roger doing? I had hoped the Cardinals would have kept him around this year.

Working out, running 4.3's and waiting for a call. The NFL is hell on guys from small schools. He's up to 210 pds. I don't know dback, I just don't know what to think. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

[dbackjon]

Working out, running 4.3's and waiting for a call. The NFL is hell on guys from small schools. He's up to 210 pds. I don't know dback, I just don't know what to think. xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

Well - tell him good luck from the Lumberjack Nation! I really hope he catches on with another team.

[Calilumber]

Wow, Ball ran a 4.7 and a 33 vert? looks bad......

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...sliders/1.htm

[wildcat_fan]

Yep, SI now has him listed as a probable unrestricted free agent. That's just a shame.

[GannonFan]

While I like Ball as a player, I'm not shocked or broken up about this. Drafting a player is a big risk for a team to take and Ball hasn't looked good in the run up to the draft to really warrant that risk - besides his slow time he also wasn't very solid during combine work by dropping a lot of balls. You can be a slow receiver if you have great hands, but you need to show that you have great hands. And keep in mind that the NFL essentially funnels something like 500 college football teams (from all levels) all the way down to basically 1500 total players, and includes players over a 15 years timeframe - that's a pretty significant narrowing of talent. Some guys won't make it, even guys who probably deserve to make it. Ball will get his chance to catch on to a team in a training camp, but he has to do more than bring his prolific college credentials.

[wildcat_fan]

While I like Ball as a player, I'm not shocked or broken up about this. Drafting a player is a big risk for a team to take and Ball hasn't looked good in the run up to the draft to really warrant that risk - besides his slow time he also wasn't very solid during combine work by dropping a lot of balls. You can be a slow receiver if you have great hands, but you need to show that you have great hands. And keep in mind that the NFL essentially funnels something like 500 college football teams (from all levels) all the way down to basically 1500 total players, and includes players over a 15 years timeframe - that's a pretty significant narrowing of talent. Some guys won't make it, even guys who probably deserve to make it. Ball will get his chance to catch on to a team in a training camp, but he has to do more than bring his prolific college credentials.

You're right. He will have to prove himself, which is something that he had to do at the collegiate level as well, so it's a familiar position for him to be in.

[Mr. C]

The problem with the way the NFL measures players is two fold. They are putting too much emphasis on non-football related stuff and they are measuring stuff like speed in non-game situations. I have known a number of players who have a different speed in games than they do in non-game situations. DaVon Fowlkes didn't wow people with his times, but when he was on the field, there was no one who could catch him, if he got behind them. He had a different gear in games. He caught 103 passes his senior year and was a Payton finalist, but didn't get more than a cursory glance from the Indianapolis Colts. He had to go to Canada to catch on with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats after sitting out a year. You could say the same for quarterback Richie Williams and now defensive end Marques Murrell is going through the same thing. David Ball is deceptive with his speed, which is why he beats people so often. He also is a great route runner and has tremendous hands. If someone gives him a TRUE chance, they are going to find a diamond in the rough.

[jmuroller]

It is probably better for him to not get drafted than to get drafted in the 6th or 7th round. That was he can choose his team from a list, than get drafted by a team stuck with them. Someone could draft him that is loaded at WR and he could have no chance to make the team. If he goes free agent he could choose a team that gives him the best chance to make the roster. The NFL is a whole different world. I've seen plenty of great receivers do nothing in the NFL and even plenty of average college receivers become great NFL players. It's all about how your game transfers to the NFL style.

I would think that Ball would be a great Arena player. Smaller field, so his route running and hands would be even more important. Even now that you don't have to play offense and defense anymore, he could just play WR and be pretty good. JMO.

[Calilumber]

It is probably better for him to not get drafted than to get drafted in the 6th or 7th round. That was he can choose his team from a list, than get drafted by a team stuck with them. Someone could draft him that is loaded at WR and he could have no chance to make the team. If he goes free agent he could choose a team that gives him the best chance to make the roster. The NFL is a whole different world. I've seen plenty of great receivers do nothing in the NFL and even plenty of average college receivers become great NFL players. It's all about how your game transfers to the NFL style.

I would think that Ball would be a great Arena player. Smaller field, so his route running and hands would be even more important. Even now that you don't have to play offense and defense anymore, he could just play WR and be pretty good. JMO.

Wrong...... getting drafted in the 6th or 7th round is much better then going the free agent route. Drafted players get treated completely different then fa's and you carry the tag your whole career. You don't get to choose what team offers you a fa contract and he his not gonna get 10 teams calling after the draft, you get maybe 3 or 4 and they leave the offer on the table for a couple hours..... if you make them wait they move onto the next fa on the list. Don't kid yourself getting drafted is HUGE!!!!!

[youwouldno]

Late round picks get cut all the time. In Ball's case, he'll get an opportunity... I suspect he'll stick, too, somewhere.

[jmuroller]

Wrong...... getting drafted in the 6th or 7th round is much better then going the free agent route. Drafted players get treated completely different then fa's and you carry the tag your whole career. You don't get to choose what team offers you a fa contract and he his not gonna get 10 teams calling after the draft, you get maybe 3 or 4 and they leave the offer on the table for a couple hours..... if you make them wait they move onto the next fa on the list. Don't kid yourself getting drafted is HUGE!!!!!


You obviously know nothing about pro football. ALL rookies, it doesn't matter if you are the #1 draft pick or signed as a FA a week after the draft, go through the same routine. You go to the rookie mini camps, then report to the main training camp a few weeks later. Anytime during this process anyone can be cut. The only players that receive guaranteed money are the first couple of round draft picks. The only guaranteed money everyone else receives is their signing bonus. The 6th and 7th round draft picks usually receive around a 20 to 40 thousand bonus. The top set of FA's regularly get bigger signing bonuses than that. Ball would be in that group.

If Ball was to get drafted by someone in the 7th round, they would present him with a contract with @ a 30k signing bonus. No more than that. They own him basically, so if he doesn't want to sign that and wants more money up front, that team can just sit on him for up to a year.

Now if he wasn't drafted then he would have a good number of teams after him. No more than 10, but definitely more than 3 or 4. I've seen it where guys have 6 FA contracts in their hand before the end of the day after the second day of the draft. No one holds you hostage then. If the Falcons offer him a league minimum contract, which is what everyone gets offered in free agency, and the signing bonus is say 30k....then the Panthers call his agent up and want him to sign with them also, they might offer 50k just to get him to camp. 3 or 4 teams? Ball is good enough he will garner lots of attention after the draft. Teams don't give you hours to make a decision, that is stupid to even think that. Normally they will fax a contract to you and give you a couple days to sign it. Sometimes it is 24 hours, but most of the time its 48 to 64 hours.

You carry the tag your whole career? NFL teams could give a rats ass if you were the #1 draft pick, or you showed up the day before training camp started 6 years ago. If you can play and are one of the best players then you will make the team. There are countless stories of high draft picks that are busts and are gone from the NFL a few years later. On the flip side there are also countless stories of guys that had hardly any attention after college and make it in the NFL. Just look at Delvin Joyce from JMU. He gradauted and was working a job in Northern Virginia. A FULL year after he was done at JMU the Giants got ahold of some of his film and offered him a FA contract to camp. He ended up playing for them for 2 years. He was the backup tailback and returned kickoffs for them. All that was accomplished and he was only 5'7"..and that is with cleats on.

[PDXCat]

You obviously know nothing about pro football. ALL rookies, it doesn't matter if you are the #1 draft pick or signed as a FA a week after the draft, go through the same routine. You go to the rookie mini camps, then report to the main training camp a few weeks later. Anytime during this process anyone can be cut. The only players that receive guaranteed money are the first couple of round draft picks. The only guaranteed money everyone else receives is their signing bonus. The 6th and 7th round draft picks usually receive around a 20 to 40 thousand bonus. The top set of FA's regularly get bigger signing bonuses than that. Ball would be in that group.

If Ball was to get drafted by someone in the 7th round, they would present him with a contract with @ a 30k signing bonus. No more than that. They own him basically, so if he doesn't want to sign that and wants more money up front, that team can just sit on him for up to a year.

Now if he wasn't drafted then he would have a good number of teams after him. No more than 10, but definitely more than 3 or 4. I've seen it where guys have 6 FA contracts in their hand before the end of the day after the second day of the draft. No one holds you hostage then. If the Falcons offer him a league minimum contract, which is what everyone gets offered in free agency, and the signing bonus is say 30k....then the Panthers call his agent up and want him to sign with them also, they might offer 50k just to get him to camp. 3 or 4 teams? Ball is good enough he will garner lots of attention after the draft. Teams don't give you hours to make a decision, that is stupid to even think that. Normally they will fax a contract to you and give you a couple days to sign it. Sometimes it is 24 hours, but most of the time its 48 to 64 hours.

You carry the tag your whole career? NFL teams could give a rats ass if you were the #1 draft pick, or you showed up the day before training camp started 6 years ago. If you can play and are one of the best players then you will make the team. There are countless stories of high draft picks that are busts and are gone from the NFL a few years later. On the flip side there are also countless stories of guys that had hardly any attention after college and make it in the NFL. Just look at Delvin Joyce from JMU. He gradauted and was working a job in Northern Virginia. A FULL year after he was done at JMU the Giants got ahold of some of his film and offered him a FA contract to camp. He ended up playing for them for 2 years. He was the backup tailback and returned kickoffs for them. All that was accomplished and he was only 5'7"..and that is with cleats on.

Most of what you say is true but never in the history of NFL football has an undrafted free agent signed for $50,000. 7th round picks might sign for $40,000. The very top undrafted rookie free agent for any single team will sign generally for ~$10,000 (although I've seen it as high as low $20's k and as low as $5000) and the last couple, of say a total of 8 udfa, sign for nothing. Also, it is a fact that teams do pressure udfa to sign right after the draft and will even start calling before the draft is over telling them to hurry up, think about it, time is of the essence and that the offer will go away. Also, it is quite the norm to have 2-5 teams calling immediately after the draft, but the fact is usually just a couple do and maybe some will dribble in over the next day or 2. The NFL is a brutal, brutal, place.

All that said, I would love to see Ball get a chance, just get into a camp and get some reps. Last years Fred Bielitnikoff winner, Mike Hass, from Oregon State had the same problem. Thought of as too slow, had a hugely prolific career, but he at least he knocked off 2 4.60's at the combine. He got drafted late by New Orleans (signed though for $100k+), they cut him in August, and he ended up going to the Bears practice squad. It really looks like the NFL has stereotyped receivers and regardless of your actual ability, if you can't run a sub 4.5 straight line 40 when your breaking into the league, it's damned tough to make a roster. It's not a lot different in college. Check out your own receiver corp, how many 4.7 40 guys do you have as receivers on your roster? It's about potential, not production, regardless of they say.

[Calilumber]

You obviously know nothing about pro football. ALL rookies, it doesn't matter if you are the #1 draft pick or signed as a FA a week after the draft, go through the same routine. You go to the rookie mini camps, then report to the main training camp a few weeks later. Anytime during this process anyone can be cut. The only players that receive guaranteed money are the first couple of round draft picks. The only guaranteed money everyone else receives is their signing bonus. The 6th and 7th round draft picks usually receive around a 20 to 40 thousand bonus. The top set of FA's regularly get bigger signing bonuses than that. Ball would be in that group.

If Ball was to get drafted by someone in the 7th round, they would present him with a contract with @ a 30k signing bonus. No more than that. They own him basically, so if he doesn't want to sign that and wants more money up front, that team can just sit on him for up to a year.

Now if he wasn't drafted then he would have a good number of teams after him. No more than 10, but definitely more than 3 or 4. I've seen it where guys have 6 FA contracts in their hand before the end of the day after the second day of the draft. No one holds you hostage then. If the Falcons offer him a league minimum contract, which is what everyone gets offered in free agency, and the signing bonus is say 30k....then the Panthers call his agent up and want him to sign with them also, they might offer 50k just to get him to camp. 3 or 4 teams? Ball is good enough he will garner lots of attention after the draft. Teams don't give you hours to make a decision, that is stupid to even think that. Normally they will fax a contract to you and give you a couple days to sign it. Sometimes it is 24 hours, but most of the time its 48 to 64 hours.

You carry the tag your whole career? NFL teams could give a rats ass if you were the #1 draft pick, or you showed up the day before training camp started 6 years ago. If you can play and are one of the best players then you will make the team. There are countless stories of high draft picks that are busts and are gone from the NFL a few years later. On the flip side there are also countless stories of guys that had hardly any attention after college and make it in the NFL. Just look at Delvin Joyce from JMU. He gradauted and was working a job in Northern Virginia. A FULL year after he was done at JMU the Giants got ahold of some of his film and offered him a FA contract to camp. He ended up playing for them for 2 years. He was the backup tailback and returned kickoffs for them. All that was accomplished and he was only 5'7"..and that is with cleats on.

Your funny... I know nothing about pro football. Where did you get your inside info from. I sat next to my nephew while he went through this ****. He got called by the colts, rams, cards, eagles and a couple of other teams during the draft and was told he was getting picked in the 6th round. If they don't pick you, they call apologize and say you'll talk as soon as the draft is over. Then they hit you like used car salesmen and want a commitment 5 minuts after the draft. They promise you nothing if you get off the phone without commiting and make it clear that they have their eyes and ears on other guys too. You think you got 2 days? OK, cowboy..... you are bummed out because you just got lied too and you just fielded 4 or 5 calls that want an answer now and are talking to other guys if you don't pull the trigger. You have NO LEVERAGE, sit on your hands and they fill their roster WITHOUT you. You are whats called UNDRAFTED. If they thought so highly of you they would have drafted you.

And you do carry the undrafted tag with you, if you were DRAFTED and other teams would like to buy your contract before it is complete they will have to compensate your current team with draft picks according to what round you were DRAFTED in (see M. Turner RB, Chargers) If you were UNDRAFTED they don't have to give up picks. A VERY big difference.

Sure there are stories of undrafted guys making it big. And of course guys drafted in the first round that are busts, but that means NOTHING to the loads of undrafted guys that sit at home and wait for the phone to ring after the draft is over.

OK your turn, tell me how you know so much about the process.... I know nothing......

Ready to hear you first hand account of how it works......

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

While I like Ball as a player, I'm not shocked or broken up about this. Drafting a player is a big risk for a team to take and Ball hasn't looked good in the run up to the draft to really warrant that risk - besides his slow time he also wasn't very solid during combine work by dropping a lot of balls. You can be a slow receiver if you have great hands, but you need to show that you have great hands. And keep in mind that the NFL essentially funnels something like 500 college football teams (from all levels) all the way down to basically 1500 total players, and includes players over a 15 years timeframe - that's a pretty significant narrowing of talent. Some guys won't make it, even guys who probably deserve to make it. Ball will get his chance to catch on to a team in a training camp, but he has to do more than bring his prolific college credentials.

If you watch 40+ game tapes instead of one combine drill, you'd have the opinion that he DOES have great hands. I've seen David Ball play in person close to 20 times during his career and great hands is one of the first descriptions I would use for him. I was stunned when I saw that combine drill.

That's what is so bizarre with all of this, the importance the combine gets. If I'm looking for football players, then watching football games would be my primary source of evaluation. xtwocentsx

[GannonFan]

If you watch 40+ game tapes instead of one combine drill, you'd have the opinion that he DOES have great hands. I've seen David Ball play in person close to 20 times during his career and great hands is one of the first descriptions I would use for him. I was stunned when I saw that combine drill.

That's what is so bizarre with all of this, the importance the combine gets. If I'm looking for football players, then watching football games would be my primary source of evaluation. xtwocentsx

Hey, I think he has great hands too, but he's helped to grow the seed of doubt in people's minds now and doubt is a pretty big thing to overcome when you're talking about spending a draftpick on him. I'm not saying it's right, but I recognize where they are coming from.

[Calilumber]

If you watch 40+ game tapes instead of one combine drill, you'd have the opinion that he DOES have great hands. I've seen David Ball play in person close to 20 times during his career and great hands is one of the first descriptions I would use for him. I was stunned when I saw that combine drill.

That's what is so bizarre with all of this, the importance the combine gets. If I'm looking for football players, then watching football games would be my primary source of evaluation. xtwocentsx

I am no David Ball basher, I wish him the best of luck, but I can tell you that when he did poorly at the combine the scouts liken it to game time in the NFL. The BIG stage. If they feel he folded in the combine.... dropping catchable balls, he will do the same on Sundays. There are two positions you will find very few non black players. WR and even fewer RB (none FB)..... not playing the race card just telling it like it is.

[Mr. C]

Wrong...... getting drafted in the 6th or 7th round is much better then going the free agent route. Drafted players get treated completely different then fa's and you carry the tag your whole career. You don't get to choose what team offers you a fa contract and he his not gonna get 10 teams calling after the draft, you get maybe 3 or 4 and they leave the offer on the table for a couple hours..... if you make them wait they move onto the next fa on the list. Don't kid yourself getting drafted is HUGE!!!!!
There is one advantage to being undrafted, as opposed to being a 6th or 7th round guy. As a free agent, you can choose which team you sign with and maybe put yourself in a better situation to make a team. An example of that for me was Jason Hunter of Appalachian State last season. Hunter was the 2005 I-AA playoff MVP and was talked about as anywhere from a 5th to 7th round draft choice. He went undrafted, but signed with the Green Bay Packers, a team that needed the type of talent he possessed and made the squad. He had a nice first year and has a bright future. There are obviously many advantages to being drafted, but not everything is a plus.

[Calilumber]

There is one advantage to being undrafted, as opposed to being a 6th or 7th round guy. As a free agent, you can choose which team you sign with and maybe put yourself in a better situation to make a team. An example of that for me was Jason Hunter of Appalachian State last season. Hunter was the 2005 I-AA playoff MVP and was talked about as anywhere from a 5th to 7th round draft choice. He went undrafted, but signed with the Green Bay Packers, a team that needed the type of talent he possessed and made the squad. He had a nice first year and has a bright future. There are obviously many advantages to being drafted, but not everything is a plus.

How many teams offered him a contract? It might have been only the Packers. Even if he had 3 offers, he only the choice of "picking" one of the three. You guys make it seem like players sit there with their agent review team rosters, review what they have drafted and say "oh, look the Chiefs need a guy like me..... lets call and get a contact."

Mr. Super Agent says to his client. " Damn, David, that was close.... I was really worried we were going to get picked up by the Colts in the 6th, and when the Rams called in the 7th and said "we are taking you".... my heart sank!! Good thing nobody thought you were talented enough to waste a pick on". "Let's review some rosters and pick some teams you'd like to play for. Remember, we are looking for teams that you feel you can make, and if they have nice weather in the winter and cool summers, put a star next to the team." "What kinda car you like David, I am getting 50K out'a one of these suckers"

Super Agent starts gathering his stuff walking out the door.

David Ball. "Mr. Super Agent where are you going?" "The Colts said they would be calling and the draft is over."

Agent: Son, don't you understand we are in the drivers seat.... you are not some crappy 6th or 7th rounder.... you are an UNDRAFTED free agent. You get the pick what team fits your needs!! I'm out, figure what team you like and we'll meet in a day or two, no rush. I do this for a living... and I read about how this stuff works on a message board called Anygivensaturday.com xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

When is jmuroller going to explain to me how the NFL worksxlolx xlolx

[CopperCat]

It amazes me at how DUMB NFL player personnel people are. Everything is predicated on not being criticized and not making a mistake. It is a backwards system. Hopefully one team will be smart enough to take David Ball. Ironically, Jarrett from USC doesn't run a 4.5 and he is supposedly dropping from a first-round pick to the second round. I'd take Ball over ANY college WR in a heartbeat.

Jarret is probably getting the attention of scouts just because he comes from USC, or at least that's my opinion. Name and school recognition are unfortunately trumps cards in the draft at times. The real sleepers are in the later rounds who come from lesser known schools who are just as good if not better (like David Ball). I hope somebody takes the guy. He has mass potential.

[UNH_ORACLE]

How many teams offered him a contract? It might have been only the Packers. Even if he had 3 offers, he only the choice of "picking" one of the three. You guys make it seem like players sit there with their agent review team rosters, review what they have drafted and say "oh, look the Chiefs need a guy like me..... lets call and get a contact."

Mr. Super Agent says to his client. " Damn, David, that was close.... I was really worried we were going to get picked up by the Colts in the 6th, and when the Rams called in the 7th and said "we are taking you".... my heart sank!! Good thing nobody thought you were talented enough to waste a pick on". "Let's review some rosters and pick some teams you'd like to play for. Remember, we are looking for teams that you feel you can make, and if they have nice weather in the winter and cool summers, put a star next to the team." "What kinda car you like David, I am getting 50K out'a one of these suckers"

Super Agent starts gathering his stuff walking out the door.

David Ball. "Mr. Super Agent where are you going?" "The Colts said they would be calling and the draft is over."

Agent: Son, don't you understand we are in the drivers seat.... you are not some crappy 6th or 7th rounder.... you are an UNDRAFTED free agent. You get the pick what team fits your needs!! I'm out, figure what team you like and we'll meet in a day or two, no rush. I do this for a living... and I read about how this stuff works on a message board called Anygivensaturday.com xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

When is jmuroller going to explain to me how the NFL worksxlolx xlolx


You have a lot of time on your hands. I'm sure there is a low percentage of prospects that end up better off as a Free Agent, but that would be impossible to tell. Obviously, it is way better to have a team show interest in you by selecting you, no team is going to select something that is not a 'need'. Stop the stupid, needless banter.

The question I want answered is Who is going to draft Ball?

[Mr. C]

How many teams offered him a contract? It might have been only the Packers. Even if he had 3 offers, he only the choice of "picking" one of the three. You guys make it seem like players sit there with their agent review team rosters, review what they have drafted and say "oh, look the Chiefs need a guy like me..... lets call and get a contact."

Mr. Super Agent says to his client. " Damn, David, that was close.... I was really worried we were going to get picked up by the Colts in the 6th, and when the Rams called in the 7th and said "we are taking you".... my heart sank!! Good thing nobody thought you were talented enough to waste a pick on". "Let's review some rosters and pick some teams you'd like to play for. Remember, we are looking for teams that you feel you can make, and if they have nice weather in the winter and cool summers, put a star next to the team." "What kinda car you like David, I am getting 50K out'a one of these suckers"

Super Agent starts gathering his stuff walking out the door.

David Ball. "Mr. Super Agent where are you going?" "The Colts said they would be calling and the draft is over."

Agent: Son, don't you understand we are in the drivers seat.... you are not some crappy 6th or 7th rounder.... you are an UNDRAFTED free agent. You get the pick what team fits your needs!! I'm out, figure what team you like and we'll meet in a day or two, no rush. I do this for a living... and I read about how this stuff works on a message board called Anygivensaturday.com xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

When is jmuroller going to explain to me how the NFL worksxlolx xlolx
Jason Hunter had several offers and he and his agent decided to choose the Packers, because it was the best situation for Hunter. Teams talk to agents and players throughout the process and a player such as Hunter usually knows who is interested before the draft. If you have a good agent, he is going to get you in the best possible situation, That is his job. I don't understand why you are being so crabby on this subject.

[flea]

I'm sure I read somewhere that some UDFA were getting more money than some 7th round picks. A few even got pretty decent signing bonus'.

[Mr. C]

Some links that show just how stupid the whole concept of 40-yard dash times are in the NFL and how meaningless they are:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_yard_dash

www.usoc.org/11611_32384.htm

nflcombinetraining.blogspot.com/ 2006/09/40-yard-dash-world-record.html

athletesacceleration.blogspot.com/ 2007/03/how-to-run-39-second-40-yard-dash.html

Chew on these things for awhile as you consider whether David Ball is ready for the NFL.

[Zoo]

Ball had 40+ touchdown catches in four seasons at UNH. What else does he need to prove, speed doesn't always make you a bad reciever. Look at Keenan McCardell, he was a good reciever despite speed issues, a nice possesion reciever. Oh and Anquan Bolden for Arizona ran a 4.6 or a 4.7, and look at him now, pro bowl or two under his belt, has the rookie record for most catches in their first season (101 catches). I gurantee if David Ball played at Michigan or Iowa, he'd go in the first day easily, because he would be better exposed to the public.

I think Ball can follow in these guys' footsteps.

[Calilumber]

Ball had 40+ touchdown catches in four seasons at UNH. What else does he need to prove, speed doesn't always make you a bad reciever. Look at Keenan McCardell, he was a good reciever despite speed issues, a nice possesion reciever. Oh and Anquan Bolden for Arizona ran a 4.6 or a 4.7, and look at him now, pro bowl or two under his belt, has the rookie record for most catches in their first season (101 catches). I gurantee if David Ball played at Michigan or Iowa, he'd go in the first day easily, because he would be better exposed to the public.

I think Ball can follow in these guys' footsteps.

Could not agree with you more. If he had played at some Pac 10 or SEC school he would be ready to cash in. That's what sux about the whole thing, he didn't and the NFL looks at that. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter, thats just what they do. You get tagged with "small school", then you get "undrafted fa" and the odds keep on stacking up against you. Can he make it in the NFL? Well, there are a lot of guys that went to small schools and went undrafted and made it........ but it's a long and very unfair road. Know, Bolden is a completely different kinda player then Ball, you might have reached a little far on that one.

The best of luck to Ball, I hope he gets drafted even in the 6th or 7th round, unlike what some people here think, that would really help him.

[Old Cat Fan]

This is the catch in the shrine game . This is what D Ball does best, he may have been nervous when he dropped those balls at the combine, but in game situations this is what he does best..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5lQa5s4Gs

[smallcollegefbfan]

Some links that show just how stupid the whole concept of 40-yard dash times are in the NFL and how meaningless they are:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_yard_dash

www.usoc.org/11611_32384.htm

nflcombinetraining.blogspot.com/ 2006/09/40-yard-dash-world-record.html

athletesacceleration.blogspot.com/ 2007/03/how-to-run-39-second-40-yard-dash.html

Chew on these things for awhile as you consider whether David Ball is ready for the NFL.

You are right. 40 times are useful in certain positions but when it comes to the offensive line it means nothing. The 10-yard is a better indicator there. NFL teams have about 100 things they measure on a player. The 40 time is just one of them. Scouts have even said that if you can play you can play. However, if a player runs a better time than they orginally thought when watching them the scouts will go back and re-evaluate the player.

About 80-90 percent of a player's grade is his play on the field, character, and injury status. Some players just don't test well in the 40 but they make up for it with great instincts on gameday.

[Peems]

Good articles Mr. C, i especially liked the olympic one. But back to Ball and everyone. Anquan Boldin was drafted in the 2nd round because of his relatively slow combine speed.[1] (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/news/2003/02/23/combine_sunday/). He ran a 4.71 40 yard dash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_yard_dash).

While its not fair to compare them Boldin is listed as 6'1 223. He's known for being strong and physical. Ball deserves a shot, if Boldin hadn't gone to Florida State he probably wouldn't of even garnered a pick. Don't get me wrong, he is one of my favorite receivers in the NFL. But the combine is DUMB, go David Ball go!

[Russ B]

Marino's draft status plummeted because he had a horrible senior year compared to his Junior year. Also, there were tons of rumors going around that he had terrible knees(which were partially true) and needed surgeries on both of them before long. It also didn't help that two QB's named Elway and Kelly were also in that draft.

And Ken O'Brien. ;)

Anyone know offhand how Vincent Jackson did in his combine a couple years ago?

edit: found it (on the Packers' site, of all places)


9. Vincent Jackson, Northern Colorado (6-43/4, 241)
He worked out at the combine, but did the shuttles and jumps at his Pro Day. He ran his 40s in 4.46 and 4.52. He also ran the short shuttle in 4.08 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.84 and the long shuttle in 11.49. He had a 39-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot-6 broad jump.