Southern Conference Week 12 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em

[FUGameBreaker]

Power Poll:

Very competitive league this year

1) ETSU (gotta give them their respect)
2) Furman
3) Wofford
4) Samford
5) Mercer
6) Citadel
7) UTC
8) WCU
9) VMI

[FUGameBreaker]

Here is my updated 24 team playoff field

Furman is actually in great shape for an at-large even if we don't clinch the autobid

NDSU
EWU
KSU
UC Davis
Weber St.
SDSU
Elon
Delaware
Colgate
JMU
Stony Brook
Maine
Towson
Wofford
JSU
Nicholls St.
ETSU
Furman
NC A&T
McNeese St.
Indiana St.
San Diego
Duquesne
Winner of Montana vs. Montana St.

[dungeonjoe]

Power Poll:

Very competitive league this year

1) ETSU (gotta give them their respect)
2) Furman
3) Wofford
4) Samford
5) Mercer
6) Citadel
7) UTC
8) WCU
9) VMI
and your hopes and prayers!xrotatehx

[SCPALADIN]

Here is my updated 24 team playoff field

Furman is actually in great shape for an at-large even if we don't clinch the autobid

NDSU
EWU
KSU
UC Davis
Weber St.
SDSU
Elon
Delaware
Colgate
JMU
Stony Brook
Maine
Towson
Wofford
JSU
Nicholls St.
ETSU
Furman
NC A&T
McNeese St.
Indiana St.
San Diego
Duquesne
Winner of Montana vs. Montana St.

Love your optimism...but after watching 20+ years of committee picks I can't help but not share it.

[dungeonjoe]

Love your optimism...but after watching 20+ years of committee picks I can't help but not share it.

Yep. Depending on a committee stinks.

[FUGameBreaker]

Love your optimism...but after watching 20+ years of committee picks I can't help but not share it.



Just look at the landscape, tons of teams lost today, there is not many other teams outside this 24 to even consider

[Reign of Terrier]

The bubble is so weak this year, Furman may not need help.

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[SCPALADIN]

Yep. Depending on a committee stinks.

...and you guys would know better than most. I just want a 14th SoCon championship...playoffs would be gravy.

[PaladinFan]

Honestly, when you look nationally, Furman is one of the few teams that is getting stronger as the season goes on. Most teams are fading.

[dungeonjoe]

Just look at the landscape, tons of teams lost today, there is not many other teams outside this 24 to even consider


The bubble is so weak this year, Furman may not need help.

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You guys are right, I know. It has been a very strange year in the SoCon this year. No team has really shined. Maybe that means there is parity (despite all the hype we have for our home team). Honestly, I am not impressed with any team I have seen up until this week. The conference may get three teams in, but I don't know how far any of us can go with the level of inconsistent play we have all displayed.

[kdinva]

1) ETSU
2) Furman
3) Wofford
t4) Samford
t4) The Citadel
t6) Mercer
t6) UTC
8) WCU
9) VMI

[dungeonjoe]

Honestly, when you look nationally, Furman is one of the few teams that is getting stronger as the season goes on. Most teams are fading.
too bad the first games of the season count as well.

[PaladinFan]

Regarding the tie breaker, I'm wondering what, if any, options are available to the schools to enforce the interpretation of the rules.

Clay Hendrix interviewed after the game seemed to think the point total was calculated among the tied teams. The league office seems to say it is pointed surrendered in league play. The latter, while maybe the SoCon's understanding, isn't how the rule is written. In fact, that is the less likely interpretation of three possible scenarios.

If the conference schools agree to a poorly worded tiebreaker rule that has probably never been enforced or actually interpreted, do they just have to agree to the SoCon's interpretation of that rule because that's just what they say?

Not sure if there is any precedent for that. If ETSU loses, a badly worded and ambiguous sentence might be the difference in one of several different teams landing the autobid. Some interpretations favor one school, another favors others.

[Reign of Terrier]

Honestly, give Furman the autobid I don't care.

I want Samford to lose to ETSU more so for the brand

#GetHatched

(This is about samford, not ETSU)

Also there's a good chance that the committee either matches up Wofford and Furman no matter what.

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[ElCid]

Regarding the tie breaker, I'm wondering what, if any, options are available to the schools to enforce the interpretation of the rules.

Clay Hendrix interviewed after the game seemed to think the point total was calculated among the tied teams. The league office seems to say it is pointed surrendered in league play. The latter, while maybe the SoCon's understanding, isn't how the rule is written. In fact, that is the less likely interpretation of three possible scenarios.

If the conference schools agree to a poorly worded tiebreaker rule that has probably never been enforced or actually interpreted, do they just have to agree to the SoCon's interpretation of that rule because that's just what they say?

Not sure if there is any precedent for that. If ETSU loses, a badly worded and ambiguous sentence might be the difference in one of several different teams landing the autobid. Some interpretations favor one school, another favors others.

NO it actually is. We had this discussion over and over again.

It says:

In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered.

It says "point among the tied teams"...NOT fewest points allowed among the tied teams only in games between the tied teams. Your interpretation, or the one you are pushing, is not correct English. You are thinking that when it says "among" it means only the head to head games. It doesn't mean that. It means the points allowed by the tied teams.

[dungeonjoe]

NO it actually is. We had this discussion over and over again.

It says:

In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered.

It says "point among the tied teams"...NOT fewest points allowed among the tied teams only in games between the tied teams. Your interpretation, or the one you are pushing, is not correct English. You are thinking that when it says "among" it means only the head to head games. It doesn't mean that. It means the points allowed by the tied teams.
spoken with true military precision... way to cut through the fake news :)

[PaladinFan]

NO it actually is. We had this discussion over and over again.

It says:

In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered.

It says "point among the tied teams"...NOT fewest points allowed among the tied teams only in games between the tied teams. Your interpretation, or the one you are pushing, is not correct English. You are thinking that when it says "among" it means only the head to head games. It doesn't mean that. It means the points allowed by the tied teams.

If we want to be specific, the rule is written to say "points allowed." That is, all points allowed. It says nothing of "only conference games." While that may be the intent, that is not what the rule says.

This is an ambiguity in the agreement. No question about it. That single sentence can be interpreted in several different ways.

Nothing about that has anything to do with "correct English." This is an agreement among the conference schools. That agreement is patently ambiguous on this provision, which, I assume, has never been applied. There was enough confusion on this forum that you wrote the league to figure out their interpretation of the rule.

You can disagree with me, but let's not suggest that there are not multiple interpretations of that sentence which are perfectly plausible. That is the very definition of an ambiguous provision.

[ElCid]

If we want to be specific, the rule is written to say "points allowed." That is, all points allowed. It says nothing of "only conference games." While that may be the intent, that is not what the rule says.

This is an ambiguity in the agreement. No question about it. That single sentence can be interpreted in several different ways.

Nothing about that has anything to do with "correct English." This is an agreement among the conference schools. That agreement is patently ambiguous on this provision, which, I assume, has never been applied. There was enough confusion on this forum that you wrote the league to figure out their interpretation of the rule.

You can disagree with me, but do not suggest that there are not multiple interpretations of that sentence which are perfectly plausible. That is the very definition of an ambiguous provision.

Actually I thought it most likely to be all points allowed in conf play, but I contacted the SOCON for confirmation. But, by that same reasoning it does not say only in the games among the tied teams. I will admit it could have been written better, but I did confirm it with the office responsible for it. So while Furman fans can wish all they want, I think it is pretty clear. I did subtly suggest when I wrote to them, that it might be advisable to rewrite it with better clarification. There was almost a tie back in 15 and I saw the possible ambiguity back then, but the tie never got that far. I can guarantee you that they have their ducks lined up and barring a vote by all institutions (highly unlikely), it will not be changed.

[PaladinFan]

Actually I thought it most likely to be all points allowed in conf play, but I contacted the SOCON for confirmation. But, by that same reasoning it does not say only in the games among the tied teams. I will admit it could have been written better, but I did confirm it with the office responsible for it. So while Furman fans can wish all they want, I think it is pretty clear. I did subtly suggest when I wrote to them, that it might be advisable to rewrite it with better clarification. There was almost a tie back in 15 and I saw the possible ambiguity back then, but the tie never got that far. I can guarantee you that they have their ducks lined up and barring a vote by all institutions (highly unlikely), it will not be changed.

I guess my point is that what the League says may not matter.

This is an agreement among the conference schools. The rule is unquestionably poorly written and leaves open multiple interpretations.

If this is treated like most any other type of agreement between parties, extraneous statements as to what the rule means to say, but does not, might be irrelevant.

Lest I be branded a homer, Furman loses on total points allowed even despite playing fewer games. I think the only scenario Furman unequivocally wins is if they only calculated the points allowed between ETSU/Wofford/Furman

[PaladinFan]

So, I think these are the scenarios:

ETSU: Receives auto bid with win over Samford. Cannot receive auto bid with loss.

Furman: Receives auto bid with ETSU loss and win over Mercer while holding Mercer to 15 or fewer points
Wofford: Receives auto bid with ETSU loss and either a Furman loss or a Furman win where Mercer scores more than 16 points.

If Furman wins and Mercer scores 16 points, Wofford and Furman will flip for the auto bid.

[FUGameBreaker]

So, I think these are the scenarios:

ETSU: Receives auto bid with win over Samford. Cannot receive auto bid with loss.

Furman: Receives auto bid with ETSU loss and win over Mercer while holding Mercer to 15 or fewer points
Wofford: Receives auto bid with ETSU loss and either a Furman loss or a Furman win where Mercer scores more than 16 points.

If Furman wins and Mercer scores 16 points, Wofford and Furman will flip for the auto bid.



Correct


But fear not, if the Dins win we are in regardless

[PaladinFan]

I agree. I think with so many bubble teams losing out, that if Furman wins here and finishes at least second in the SoCon, they'll be in.

[FUGameBreaker]

Huge news, Mcneese St. just lost, they are eliminated!!! Booom!!!!

[PaladinFan]

Another bubble team goes down. N'Western State just upset McNeese.

[FUGameBreaker]

Updated possible 24 team field:


NDSU
EWU
KSU
UC Davis
Weber St.
SDSU
Elon
Delaware
Colgate
JMU
Stony Brook
Maine
Towson
Wofford
JSU
Nicholls St.
ETSU
Furman
NC A&T
Indiana St.
San Diego
Duquesne
Winner of Montana vs. Montana St.
And still one more spot open

[PaladinFan]

If you want to pinpoint UTC's issues this year. In conference play, the Mocs are 1st in scoring defense (18.5 ppg) and last in scoring offense (19.9 ppg).

Not sure I've ever seen a team do that before.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I was 3-1 today. Chattanooga's playoff chances are dead (more on that later). It looks like no more than three teams will represent the SoCon this year. Here's where I have it:

1) ETSU (100% chance they're in) - Sent The Citadel a thank you note for doing their part.
2) Wofford (80% chance they're in) - Did their part to keep their autobid hopes alive.
3) Furman (60% chance they're in) - Did their part but has work to do still.
4) Mercer - Effectively killed Chattanooga's playoff hopes.
5) The Citadel - Effectively killed Samford's playoff hopes.
6) Chattanooga - Crashed and burned at the end.
7) Samford - Saw their autobid chances go up in smoke.
8) Western Carolina - Fought the good fight.
9) VMI - Fell apart to the Fighting Fumanchus.

Autobid Status (already covered earlier)

This Week's Games
The Citadel @ Alabama (Beatdown of the Week) - Bulldogs get steamrolled by the Crimson Tide.
Samford @ ETSU (Game of the Year) - Bucs clinch the autobid.
Presbyterian @ Wofford (Beatdown of the Week) - Terriers tear up the Blue Hose.
VMI @ Old Dominion - Keydets end up on the business end of an epic mauling.
Furman @ Mercer - Bears find the way to win this year's Lamb Bowl.
Chattanooga @ South Carolina - Mocs see their season come to a merciful end.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm not even bothering with a power ranking.

Wofford, ETSU and Furman will make the playoffs. I don't think Furman needs the autobid to get in.

Also, I have never been more certain of an outcome for a sporting event than I am now wrt the Wofford-PC game.

We will name the score.

Wofford is a playoff team. We win and we are in.

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[PaladinFan]

I'm not even bothering with a power ranking.

Wofford, ETSU and Furman will make the playoffs. I don't think Furman needs the autobid to get in.

Also, I have never been more certain of an outcome for a sporting event than I am now wrt the Wofford-PC game.

We will name the score.

Wofford is a playoff team. We win and we are in.

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I agree on those three. ETSU is in regardless. Wofford and Furman, I think, are in with wins.

The atuobid may just be a nice feather and reduce the stress of the selection, but none of the three are likely to be seeded.

[woffordgrad94]

I'm not even bothering with a power ranking.

Wofford, ETSU and Furman will make the playoffs. I don't think Furman needs the autobid to get in.

Also, I have never been more certain of an outcome for a sporting event than I am now wrt the Wofford-PC game.

We will name the score.

Wofford is a playoff team. We win and we are in.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Totally agree with this post, though I am just as certain about the outcome of Thee Citadel-Alabama and Chattanooga-South Carolina. I think Furman defeats Mercer and gets into the playoffs, where they will be matched up against...the Wofford Terriers! Who will get the home game? I don’t know, but probably Furman. Wofford does not seem to like to bid. I think Samford goes out with a bang and upsets (if you want to call it that) ETSU, although no one can really predict what Samford will do. But ETSU still gets in the playoffs.

[FUBeAR]

Gosh, I hate to throw a bucket of cold water on all the “we want a rematch” fervor of the RatDog fans, but the NCAA “Road to the Championship” pretty clearly states that ain’t a-happenin’ unless...
a) both teams get IN the Playoffs AND
b) they both win their 1st Round games (assuming neither will be seeded...in which case, only 1 would have to win a 1st round game to make such a rematch possible)...

“Teams from the same conference will not be paired for First Round games or for Second Round games when both teams are playing their first games of the championship (except for teams from the same conference that did not play against each other during the regular season; such teams may play each other in the first and second round).”

https://www.ncaa.com/championships/football/fcs/road-to-the-championship

Is FUBeAR struggling with his reading comprehension again?


....and I do have a question about this text though...how would it be possible for BOTH Teams to be playing their 1st games of the Championship in the 2nd Round when 8 Teams playing their 1st game are playing against 8 Teams playing their 2nd game?

[Reign of Terrier]

Alright, so looking at prior brackets, I think it's clear that they won't force a Wofford-Furman rematch in the first round.

I'm very cynical when it comes to these committees, but if you look at their prior actions, they are okay with rematches in the first round, so long as they are between OOC opponents.

Neither ETSU, Wofford or Furman are getting a seed.

I think Furman/Wofford will play North Carolina A&T/Elon with the winners going to Kennesaw and Jacksonville state/ flying out to one of those seeded teams out west, pending on the outcome of the JSU/KSU game this weekend.

If Wofford and Furman rematch in the first round there is an indisputable bias against Southern Conference teams.

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[ElCid]

Gosh, I hate to throw a bucket of cold water on all the “we want a rematch” fervor of the RatDog fans, but the NCAA “Road to the Championship” pretty clearly states that ain’t a-happenin’ unless...
a) both teams get IN the Playoffs AND
b) they both win their 1st Round games (assuming neither will be seeded...in which case, only 1 would have to win a 1st round game to make such a rematch possible)...

“Teams from the same conference will not be paired for First Round games or for Second Round games when both teams are playing their first games of the championship (except for teams from the same conference that did not play against each other during the regular season; such teams may play each other in the first and second round).”

https://www.ncaa.com/championships/football/fcs/road-to-the-championship

Is FUBeAR struggling with his reading comprehension again?


....and I do have a question about this text though...how would it be possible for BOTH Teams to be playing their 1st games of the Championship in the 2nd Round when 8 Teams playing their 1st game are playing against 8 Teams playing their 2nd game?

Hold over language from when there were fewer playoff teams and not 8 seeds.

[FUBeAR]

Hold over language from when there were fewer playoff teams and not 8 seeds.
THANKS! - thought that might be the case. Pretty confident we can trust the rest of the language here though - seems I’ve always heard/known..”no 1st round games from Conf. mates unless they didn’t play this season.”

Hold on...Did Furman & Wofford play this year?

Oh yeah, that’s right, Furman whipped the PorchYappers like a gub’mint mule, 34-14.

Almost forgot.

[wcugrad95]

Agree with FUBeAR - a rematch only seems likely if ETSU beats Samford and somehow ends up with 9 wins and a seed. Unless they pair up teams in the first round (which they claim they want to avoid at all costs - except for when actual costs come into play), second round games will be against seeded teams. I guess if the cost/travel come into play we could see the rare 1st round rematch, but it would seem more likely the 2 or 3 SoCon teams play the likes of any of the CAA teams, possibly NC A&T, etc. and then winners will travel to teams like KSU, Colgate, and even JSU could get a seed.

[kdinva]

Wofford, ETSU and Furman will make the playoffs.


what if Furman loses to mercer.............I do not see any 5-5 team getting an at-large.....but we presume you meant this all along....

[woffordgrad94]

On further review, you guys are probably right...teams in the same conference won’t meet in the first playoff round. That’s really too bad...I wanted a chance at revenge, to repeat the butt blistering we administered in last year’s playoffs against the Paladins. Oh well...I guess there’s always next year.

[FUBeAR]

what if Furman loses to mercer
Should that event occur, I would then know a 3rd Place 6-5 SoCon Team with a (possibly) healed up Starting QB, Starting RB, and Starting WR...that I’d like to make a case for. :)

[FUBeAR]

I wanted a chance at revengeYou don’t.

[walliver]

Wofford will travel to NDSU for the second round. Furman would face Kennesaw in the second round with the winner going to Fargo.

[PaladinFan]

Just my prognostication, but I think

Wofford/Elon - winner to seeded CAA team (JMU/Maine/Towson)

Furman/NCA&T - winner to KSU

ETSU/Jacksonville State - winner to MVFC seed (SDSU/NDSU)

[dungeonjoe]

You don’t.
In the words of Ronald Reagan, "there you go again."

[woffordgrad94]

Wofford will travel to NDSU for the second round. Furman would face Kennesaw in the second round with the winner going to Fargo.
Please not this. Be wrong, just please- be wrong!

[woffordgrad94]

Just my prognostication, but I think

Wofford/Elon - winner to seeded CAA team (JMU/Maine/Towson)

Furman/NCA&T - winner to KSU

ETSU/Jacksonville State - winner to MVFC seed (SDSU/NDSU)
I could deal with this. Though we’d likely never outbid Elon for the home game. This bracket would give us an opportunity to maybe win one or two...

[Reign of Terrier]

Honestly, having 3 socon teams in and none of them be seeds is a good thing.

We can finally prove something without worrying about eliminating ourselves. If we can get 3 to the second round and 2 to the quarters and 1 to the semis, that would be good.

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[gofurman]

I'll worry about all this IF IF IF Furman can beat Mercer. Lamb bowl. PLUS Mercer may have their QB back, one of them. They have been missing Both QBs. Maybe the star RB Tee Mitchell ? Maybe the athlete guy too. If so they are a dangerous team. They scare me !!! Notice when they had all these guys they beat Samford etc. I am worried about this game

[ElCid]

I'll worry about all this IF IF IF Furman can beat Mercer. Lamb bowl. PLUS Mercer may have their QB back, one of them. They have been missing Both QBs. Maybe the star RB Tee Mitchell ? Maybe the athlete guy too. If so they are a dangerous team. They scare me !!! Notice when they had all these guys they beat Samford etc. I am worried about this game

I would be scared too if we had to play them again. Their QB might be a bit tight, but once he loosens up, watch out. I can see Furman a bit relaxed going into this.

[PaladinNation]

I would be scared too if we had to play them again. Their QB might be a bit tight, but once he loosens up, watch out. I can see Furman a bit relaxed going into this.

I don't see Furman playing tight in this game… Hendrix is all business and based on his comments after the VMI game - he won't accept excuses. He mentioned the VMI playing field (terrible) the weather (windy and cold) were just excuses you still have to go out there and play the game and Furman took care of business.

If Mercer goes out there with a tight Riley and puts him in passing situations he'll be facing the best pass rush in the SoCon, as well as a physical defense. I'm not sure Furman is a team to put a less than 100% QB out on the field, especially one that doesn't have both wheels ready to go.

It's going to be a great game, I don't expect it to be easy.

[FUGameBreaker]

Just my prognostication, but I think

Wofford/Elon - winner to seeded CAA team (JMU/Maine/Towson)

Furman/NCA&T - winner to KSU

ETSU/Jacksonville State - winner to MVFC seed (SDSU/NDSU)



Sounds about right xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

Here's how Mr. Massey sees the SoCon...and projects the finish...



Team
Ovrall Rcrd
SoCon Rcrd
Win%
Rtg Rnk
Rtg
Pwr Rnk
Pwr Rtg
Off Rnk
Off Rtg
Def Rnk
Def Rtg
HFA
SoS Played Rnk
SoS Played Rtg
SoS ALL Rnk
SoS All Rtg
Exp Win
Exp Loss
Exp Ovrall Rcrd
Exp SoCon Rcrd
SoCon Points Allowed (YTD)
Projected Points Allowed 11/17
Projected SoCon Points Allowed


Wofford
7-3
6-2
0.700
22
1.14
24
40.23
32
45.90
24
21.69
2.55
53
32.87
66
30.87
1.00
0.00
8-3
6-2
175
0
175


Furman
5-4
5-2
0.556
31
1.09
34
38.43
29
46.05
31
19.78
2.15
28
37.67
32
37.36
0.61
0.39
6-4
6-2
159
27
186


ETSU
8-2
6-1
0.800
34
1.05
56
31.20
71
39.84
33
18.71
2.34
67
29.99
67
30.70
0.35
0.65
8-3
6-2
179
31
210


Samford
5-5
4-3
0.500
36
1.04
29
39.02
15
50.21
44
16.22
2.64
50
33.24
51
33.27
0.65
0.35
6-5
5-3
194
26
220


Chatt
6-4
4-4
0.600
49
0.93
48
32.78
92
35.22
11
24.94
1.94
64
30.21
52
33.06
0.00
1.00
6-5
4-4
148
0
148


Citadel
4-5
4-4
0.444
50
0.93
47
33.18
47
44.31
43
16.27
2.06
46
34.22
35
36.84
0.89
1.11
5-6
4-4
225
0
225


Mercer
5-5
4-3
0.500
51
0.92
50
32.47
43
44.70
52
15.17
2.08
51
33.02
50
33.42
0.39
0.61
5-6
4-4
218
30
248


WCU
3-7
1-7
0.300
82
0.58
79
22.52
22
47.58
113
2.28
1.64
72
28.51
68
30.25
0.01
0.99
3-8
1-7
366
0
366


VMI
1-9
1-8
0.100
99
0.41
90
17.42
64
41.79
110
3.00
2.38
61
31.38
58
32.21
0.04
0.96
1-10
1-8
376
0
376



Projecting Wofford to take the Autobid on Points

[ElCid]

Power Poll, who has their mojo going

1) Furman - They got it together just in time
2) Wofford - solid; unfortunately caught Samford and Furman on their good days this season
3) ETSU - they may be in the lead, but they are on a razors edge
4) The Citadel - finally some solid play; now, if we could do that in all 4 quarters; the Dogs are about 4 possessions from being 8-1; sure wish we changed QBs a little sooner
5) Samford - they should be number 1 with their talent, but, well, you know; if they could only be consistent, they can beat about anyone if they really tried; it's got to be some sort of culture problem; also, just an observation, they got swacked by us in the second half partly due to their conditioning; they were just tired
6) Mercer - got a mildly surprising win; season would have been different had their QB not gotten hurt; they win at least 2 more otherwise
7) UTC - great D......great D......great D......Trying to find something nice to say about their O, it's not happening
8) WCU - great O.......great O......great O......Trying to find something nice to say about their D, it's not happening
9) VMI - Well what can you say; still having a pretty good, relative to previous, season; things are looking better



The Citadel at Alabama - Great experience for the Dogs, if we score it will be a victory; they have shutout 2 top 25 FBS teams the last couple weeks - 56-0
Samford at ETSU - I just don't see ETSU winning this, but I have underestimated them before so who knows (maybe I am their good luck charm) - 34-21
Presbyterian @ Wofford - Wofford just looks to stay healthy and get some good second half playing time for the 2s and 3s - 44-7
VMI at Old Dominion - OD has a really bad D, but so do the Keydets - 56-24
Furman at Mercer - Mercer tries to play spoiler, but Furman is on a mission still - 31-21
Chattanooga at South Carolina - Chatty could make it interesting with their great D, but not for long - 45-10

[walliver]

Power ratings:
1) Nobody seems to want this spot.
1a) ETSU - In its many years in the SoCon the first time around, they never won a SoCon title. This year they are assured of a least a shared title. They don't impress me, but winning is more important than impressions.
2) Furman - setback against Samford hurts but they bounced back against VMI (then again, who hasn't)
3) Wofford - managed a win, but offensive identity has become blurred.
4) Samford - This is a team that could hang with Bama but lose to Davidson.
5) The Citadel - finally getting things rolling.
6) Mercer - disappointing year, one last chance to make a statement.
7) Chattanooga - you have to score points to win.
8) WCU - you have to stop the other team to win
9) VMI - some things are consistent

This week:
The Citadel at Alabama - The Chucktown Pups take on an NFL South opponent. Hopefully the Bellhops can eat up enough time on offensive to keep scoring slower and the best-team-money-can-buy wins 63-3.
Samford at ETSU - Sammy should win by 28, but Sammy should have won by 30 last week. There are major issues in Mountain Home. It is Hodges last game and I'm sure he and his teammates want to go out with in win, but somehow the Bucs break the hearts of Bulldog, Paladin, and Terrier Fans and win by 1 when Sammy misses a short game winning field goal at the end. Mountain Pirates 24-23.
Presbyterian at Wofford - This should be a blow-out as PC transitions down to the Pioneer. However, this was once Wofford's biggest rival (and PC's second biggest) - although younger fans and current students are likely not aware of this. Wofford tends to struggle on Senior day, but pulls away in the 4th quarter to win 35-14
VMI at Old Dominion - I would love for an 0-8 SoCon team to beat C-USA, but don't see that happening. Monarchs win 52-40
Furman at Mercer - Does a 5-5 Furman team deserve an at-large bid, they do have a great SOS due to getting their rear ends kicked by Elon and Clemson. We'll never know as the Horsie People pull out a 28-24 win over a prepared bear squad.
Chattanooga at South Carolina - The Gamecocks arch rival schedules only in-state FCS, never loses, and plays in the CFP. South Carolina has apparently become tired of struggling with, and frequently losing to, instate teams and brings in the Mocs. The Gamecookies are a mediocre SEC team that bounces back from a painful loss, Chatty struggles to score and the Chickens beat the TrainBirds 35-3.

Playoffs:
ETSU likely to get auto-bid, but should get at-large if not.
Wofford - needs to beat PC, but should be safe at 8-3 for an at-large
Furman - needs to beat Mercer. A chance at auto-bid. At-large bid really depends on what is going on with other 7-4 teams

[ElCid]

Presbyterian at Wofford - This should be a blow-out as PC transitions down to the Patriot. However, this was once Wofford's biggest rival (and PC's second biggest) - although younger fans and current students are likely not aware of this. Wofford tends to struggle on Senior day, but pulls away in the 4th quarter to win 35-14


I think you meant Pioneer, not Patriot. I know they are not much different this year. Easy to confuse.

[walliver]

I think you meant Pioneer, not Patriot. I know they are not much different this year. Easy to confuse.

I changed it, but I don’t really differentiate ... although the Patriot usually has one decent team per year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Wofford beats PC 59-0.

Usually, I think predicting Wofford scoring over 42 is a bad idea. But PC is the worst team we'll face this year.

[FUGameBreaker]

I think Wofford beats PC 59-0.

Usually, I think predicting Wofford scoring over 42 is a bad idea. But PC is the worst team we'll face this year.


If you guys go for and convert that 4th down (I believe that's what it was) against Wyoming then Wofford would probably be seeded at 9-2

[woffordgrad94]

If you guys go for and convert that 4th down (I believe that's what it was) against Wyoming then Wofford would probably be seeded at 9-2
Whether going for that 4th down would have been a better move than punting is debatable (I personally wished we would have gone for it and tried to put them away right there- I think Mike Ayers almost certainly would have). But what is NOT debatable is if we had done so, been successful and won, we’d be 9-2 with a win over an FBS...almost certainly a seed resume. But hey, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

[The Cats]

Western Carolina is at North Carolina this Saturday. I know it's easy to forget....... but....

[Reign of Terrier]

If you guys go for and convert that 4th down (I believe that's what it was) against Wyoming then Wofford would probably be seeded at 9-2

I agree, and Coach Conklin regrets not doing it.

We definitely didn't even have the full defensive playbook open for that one either.

Also, it's worth mentioning that that "bad" Wyoming team can still win their next 2 and go to a bowl.

[woffordgrad94]

Western Carolina is at North Carolina this Saturday. I know it's easy to forget....... but....
I would pick UNC but I really wouldn’t be totally shocked if WCU won...the Heels are a mess.

[PaladinFan]

Whether going for that 4th down would have been a better move than punting is debatable (I personally wished we would have gone for it and tried to put them away right there- I think Mike Ayers almost certainly would have). But what is NOT debatable is if we had done so, been successful and won, we’d be 9-2 with a win over an FBS...almost certainly a seed resume. But hey, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

I think one of Furman's strongest post season arguments that they'd likely be 9-2 with Wofford's schedule.

In an alternate reality, Furman goes 6-2 in the SoCon and beats GWU and PC, giving them 8 wins. Maybe Furman doesn't beat Wyoming, but seeing the Cowboys squeak out a win against Wofford before Furman beat the Terriers makes me think that would at least have been a toss up.

Maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -


I would pick UNC but I really wouldn’t be totally shocked if WCU won...the Heels are a mess.

Kinda thought the same thing last year only to watch WCU get run off the field.

[dungeonjoe]

I think one of Furman's strongest post season arguments that they'd likely be 9-2 with Wofford's schedule.

In an alternate reality, Furman goes 6-2 in the SoCon and beats GWU and PC, giving them 8 wins. Maybe Furman doesn't beat Wyoming, but seeing the Cowboys squeak out a win against Wofford before Furman beat the Terriers makes me think that would at least have been a toss up.

Maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -



Kinda thought the same thing last year only to watch WCU get run off the field.
until we start playing football in the alternate bizzaro reality, it doesn't matter.

[PaladinFan]

until we start playing football in the alternate bizzaro reality, it doesn't matter.

It does make me wonder what good Furman's difficult SOS is.

If the goal is just to 8 wins, why not just schedule easy teams?

[woffordgrad94]

It does make me wonder what good Furman's difficult SOS is.

If the goal is just to 8 wins, why not just schedule easy teams?
There is something to be said for that. I know some people will strongly disagree with this philosophy and I’m not even sure I totally agree with it, but when a school like Wofford keeps the non-conference schedule light other than the money games that it absolutely must have, it allows them to win 7-9 games most years and challenge for a playoff spot and that keeps most folks happy and then anything they do in the playoffs is just gravy. Good or bad, that’s simply the way a lot of folks see it. Most folks in fact. There just aren’t very many hardcore Wofford fans out there. And if you replace Wofford with Furman in what I just posted, I’m not sure it’s a lot less true if any.

[ElCid]

I think one of Furman's strongest post season arguments that they'd likely be 9-2 with Wofford's schedule.


Really, what if'ing it? It is what it is. Furman just needs to do their part for self preservation and win and hold Mercer to low points....and hope Samford rebounds.

[PaladinFan]

I have been super impressed each week with Devin Wynn. This kid just keeps getting better and is turning into a real do-it-all three down back. It seems like every week he reels off a 50 yard TD run.

He's averaging over 100 yards a game all purpose in conference play and 7.4 yards a touch.

A pretty electric player headlining a very impressive stable of running backs. Hendrix, in my opinion, looks like he's building a backfield very similar to the ones Furman had in the mid-2000s - multiple running backs that do different things well and run like they want to hurt someone.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1062024265258688512

(https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1062024265258688512)

[gofurman]

If you want to pinpoint UTC's issues this year. In conference play, the Mocs are 1st in scoring defense (18.5 ppg) and last in scoring offense (19.9 ppg).

Not sure I've ever seen a team do that before.

maybe Furman 2002 ? or 2003? whenever the Defense never rested

[PaladinNation]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Furman have some changes in scheduling philosophy.

If I was Clay I would demand Colgate play in Greenville to complete that series before I inked another deal - which they have - or I get out of it.

I heard rumors that Furman tried to schedule with several teams to replace Colgate during the bye week, and zero had an interest.

I wouldn't mind seeing Davidson, Stetson, Jacksonville U, Campbell, popping up on the schedule in the future. But, I'm not sure they want to play Furman in the future. We might be stuck playing Big South, Patriot, CAA, OVC games home and home.

[gofurman]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Furman have some changes in scheduling philosophy.

If I was Clay I would demand Colgate play in Greenville to complete that series before I inked another deal - which they have - or I get out of it.

I heard rumors that Furman tried to schedule with several teams to replace Colgate during the bye week, and zero had an interest.

I wouldn't mind seeing Davidson, Stetson, Jacksonville U, Campbell, popping up on the schedule in the future. But, I'm not sure they want to play Furman in the future. We might be stuck playing Big South, Patriot, CAA, OVC games home and home.

PN I Agree, many like to see a hard schedule but it's becoming clear that it is very high-risk (yes, high-reward too but)... Basically we could look at this Furman this year and most would agree we would beat Gardner Webb or PC (not pickin' on Wofford at all) - and Furman would now be 7-3 going into Mercer where a Mercer win would make a Furman a lock for the playoffs. Why are we risking playoff bids? I hate to take on patsys but it's becoming clear that's what makes you eligible. Don't play D2 schools but play easy FCS schools. Or at least ONE EASY FCS school OOC. Maybe Elon and Gwebb... if we had played ELon (loss) and Gwebb (win?) then we would be 6-4 headed to mercer where a win would put us in at 7-4.

Play a FBS, and either two easy to moderate FCS or at least one easy FCS. Can't start 0-3

Still, get OVC or a moderate to poor Big South. Get a UT-Martin or someone on there. It's good for playoffs, morale and practicing basic plays

[gofurman]

FUBeAR, I am not asking super intel.. just the name of the guy you said was a great athlete so I would know to look and see IF he is playing in the game. I am just asking the kids NAME

It's easy for me to see who is at QB when the game starts.. but I also wanted to see both if the kid you talked about was playing .. and if so you said to watch him that he was explosive and fun to watch - how can I watch him if I don't know his name? Thanks in advance. I mean, if you asked me who had been explosive at RB lately for Furman I don't mind saying it's Wynn.

Or that our QB is Roberts.

I am just asking the kids name - not whether he is playing. I think you said he was a recvr or KOR or?

I know there is Riddle and Riley and Frost at QB..
Mitchell at RB
but the name of the great athlete I can't recall. thanks for your help. !

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR, I am not asking super intel.. just the name of the guy you said was a great athlete so I would know to look and see IF he is playing in the game. I am just asking the kids NAME

It's easy for me to see who is at QB when the game starts.. but I also wanted to see both if the kid you talked about was playing .. and if so you said to watch him that he was explosive and fun to watch - how can I watch him if I don't know his name? Thanks in advance. I mean, if you asked me who had been explosive at RB lately for Furman I don't mind saying it's Wynn.

Or that our QB is Roberts.

I am just asking the kids name - not whether he is playing. I think you said he was a recvr or KOR or?

I know there is Riddle and Riley and Frost at QB..
Mitchell at RB
but the name of the great athlete I can't recall. thanks for your help. !https://mercerbears.com/cumestats.aspx?path=football

[gofurman]

https://mercerbears.com/cumestats.aspx?path=football

cmon FUBeAR. I can look at that chart but its NOT apparent. David Durden ? Ellison? If it is Durden the Mercer stat says he hasn't missed a game (10 games played) so that doesn't fit the narrative that he has been held out.

and that is why I ASKED you as a friend.. because these stat charts often are not right. If it is Durden then he played every game and that isn't the case. If it is Ellison who missed a game.. he hasn't returned a kick.. so neither one fits my memory that you said a freshman kid who missed a game but was electric as a receiver and KOR - none of the guys on the stat chart fit that narrative.

[FUBeAR]

cmon FUBeAR. I can look at that chart but its NOT apparent. David Durden ? Ellison? If it is Durden the Mercer stat says he hasn't missed a game (10 games played) so that doesn't fit the narrative that he has been held out.

and that is why I ASKED you as a friend.. because these stat charts often are not right. If it is Durden then he played every game and that isn't the case. If it is Ellison who missed a game.. he hasn't returned a kick.. so neither one fits my memory that you said a freshman kid who missed a game but was electric as a receiver and KOR - none of the guys on the stat chart fit that narrative.
LOL - the THIRST is strong in this one, Luke.

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=676777#/career/R/hitting/2016/ALL

[gofurman]

LOL - the THIRST is strong in this one, Luke.


http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=676777#/career/R/hitting/2016/ALL

Thank you for a straight answer. Mercer said he has played every game - those PDFs aren’t always the answer

[FUGameBreaker]

FUBeAR what happened to the other couple Mercer fans that use to be here on AGS? I would have thought with them drawing good crowds we would have seen more of a influx of Bear fans on here the last couple years....

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR what happened to the other couple Mercer fans that use to be here on AGS? I would have thought with them drawing good crowds we would have seen more of a influx of Bear fans on here the last couple years....
MUBearDown has been fighting & now thankfully recovering from a very serious medical issue since mid-July. I have missed him in many ways for the past 4 months, but we had some fun texting during the ‘clown show’ that was the MU @ Chatt 1st half on Sat., as well as the crazy & exciting 2nd half. So, he’s coming around.

Another - forget his ‘handle’ Bears38 or similar maybe..was a Player Parent, whose ‘investment’ has probably waned more than mine since his Bear finished playing in 2016.

ursus (not THAT Ursus) is a contrarian, who only joined to beat the FUBeAR/MUBearDown Team in a Playoff Contest on here...because he started off as part of our Team, but got mad when we wanted to pick against Weber State...so he joined & made his own entry...he was right...they won. He posts on the Mercer Board occasionally.

Only 1 other ever showed here, I think.

You know how it it...When Mercer makes the Playoffs, they’ll show up because that’s what really makes the FCS special...and some of the will stick. When you’ve won 13 SoCon Championships...and been to the Playoffs 17 years...and had Football (almost) continuously since 1889, there are a few more ‘invested’ peeps around.

[FUGameBreaker]

MUBearDown has been fighting & now thankfully recovering from a very serious medical issue since mid-July. I have missed him in many ways for the past 4 months, but we had some fun texting during the ‘clown show’ that was the MU @ Chatt 1st half on Sat., as well as the crazy & exciting 2nd half. So, he’s coming around.

Another - forget his ‘handle’ Bears38 or similar maybe..was a Player Parent, whose ‘investment’ has probably waned more than mine since his Bear finished playing in 2016.

ursus (not THAT Ursus) is a contrarian, who only joined to beat the FUBeAR/MUBearDown Team in a Playoff Contest on here...because he started off as part of our Team, but got mad when we wanted to pick against Weber State...so he joined & made his own entry...he was right...they won. He posts on the Mercer Board occasionally.

Only 1 other ever showed here, I think.

You know how it it...When Mercer makes the Playoffs, they’ll show up because that’s what really makes the FCS special...and some of the will stick. When you’ve won 13 SoCon Championships...and been to the Playoffs 17 years...and had Football (almost) continuously since 1889, there are a few more ‘invested’ peeps around.



That all makes sense, glad MUBearDown is feeling on the ups xthumbsupx

[CID1990]

Honestly, having 3 socon teams in and none of them be seeds is a good thing.

We can finally prove something without worrying about eliminating ourselves. If we can get 3 to the second round and 2 to the quarters and 1 to the semis, that would be good.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

This is correct thinking

[CID1990]

Power ratings:
1) Nobody seems to want this spot.
1a) ETSU - In its many years in the SoCon the first time around, they never won a SoCon title. This year they are assured of a least a shared title. They don't impress me, but winning is more important than impressions.
2) Furman - setback against Samford hurts but they bounced back against VMI (then again, who hasn't)
3) Wofford - managed a win, but offensive identity has become blurred.
4) Samford - This is a team that could hang with Bama but lose to Davidson.
5) The Citadel - finally getting things rolling.
6) Mercer - disappointing year, one last chance to make a statement.
7) Chattanooga - you have to score points to win.
8) WCU - you have to stop the other team to win
9) VMI - some things are consistent

This week:
The Citadel at Alabama - The Chucktown Pups take on an NFL South opponent. Hopefully the Bellhops can eat up enough time on offensive to keep scoring slower and the best-team-money-can-buy wins 63-3.
Samford at ETSU - Sammy should win by 28, but Sammy should have won by 30 last week. There are major issues in Mountain Home. It is Hodges last game and I'm sure he and his teammates want to go out with in win, but somehow the Bucs break the hearts of Bulldog, Paladin, and Terrier Fans and win by 1 when Sammy misses a short game winning field goal at the end. Mountain Pirates 24-23.
Presbyterian at Wofford - This should be a blow-out as PC transitions down to the Pioneer. However, this was once Wofford's biggest rival (and PC's second biggest) - although younger fans and current students are likely not aware of this. Wofford tends to struggle on Senior day, but pulls away in the 4th quarter to win 35-14
VMI at Old Dominion - I would love for an 0-8 SoCon team to beat C-USA, but don't see that happening. Monarchs win 52-40
Furman at Mercer - Does a 5-5 Furman team deserve an at-large bid, they do have a great SOS due to getting their rear ends kicked by Elon and Clemson. We'll never know as the Horsie People pull out a 28-24 win over a prepared bear squad.
Chattanooga at South Carolina - The Gamecocks arch rival schedules only in-state FCS, never loses, and plays in the CFP. South Carolina has apparently become tired of struggling with, and frequently losing to, instate teams and brings in the Mocs. The Gamecookies are a mediocre SEC team that bounces back from a painful loss, Chatty struggles to score and the Chickens beat the TrainBirds 35-3.

Playoffs:
ETSU likely to get auto-bid, but should get at-large if not.
Wofford - needs to beat PC, but should be safe at 8-3 for an at-large
Furman - needs to beat Mercer. A chance at auto-bid. At-large bid really depends on what is going on with other 7-4 teams

Oh cmon man

I’m with you on all of this ranking except Samford and El Cid should be switched

We exposed a major flaw with them and that is their conditioning. Their defense had only one half of gas. We could play that game 10 more times and win 8 of them. If your defense can’t play a full game against an option team then you are not better than that option team, and Wofford fans should know that as well as anybody

[Reign of Terrier]

Oh cmon man

I’m with you on all of this ranking except Samford and El Cid should be switched

We exposed a major flaw with them and that is their conditioning. Their defense had only one half of gas. We could play that game 10 more times and win 8 of them. If your defense can’t play a full game against an option team then you are not better than that option team, and Wofford fans should know that as well as anybodyThis is a line of thought I had not considered and may explain Samford's overall inconsistency.

Having said that I'm pretty sure Wofford held the ball for 36 minutes and that didn't work out for us

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

This is a line of thought I had not considered and may explain Samford's overall inconsistency.

Having said that I'm pretty sure Wofford held the ball for 36 minutes and that didn't work out for us

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I think Furman held them to 10 points in a half. We just didn't have enough consistency on offense that game to keep it going.

Of course, Ahmad Gooden was in the lineup that day. The Citadel played a great game Saturday, but Samford is a different animal with #99. That guy is a one-man wrecking crew.

[PaladinNation]

I think Furman held them to 10 points in a half. We just didn't have enough consistency on offense that game to keep it going.

Of course, Ahmad Gooden was in the lineup that day. The Citadel played a great game Saturday, but Samford is a different animal with #99. That guy is a one-man wrecking crew.


I'm not sure why but Samford seemed up for the Furman game… Hatcher's post-game comments focused on the inspired play of Gooden (9 tackles against Furman, 8 tackles against Wofford).

Not sure he alone - could have stopped The Citadel onslaught - but I do think The Citadel exposed something - they frustrated Samford's defense.

>> Back to Furman's inconsistency on offense without a healthy Harris Roberts. We finally got to see Hamp Sisson under normal conditions (he was thrown to the beast against The Citadel). Let me start out by saying — I have no idea what happens in practice, but Sisson looked like he had a handle on the running and the passing part of the offense. It left me scratching my head why hasn't Sisson played more this season? Maybe it's the whole redshirt thing — it's pretty obvious Furman is going to redshirt both Graninger and Sisson as both will only play a max of four games.

[PaladinFan]

I'm not sure why but Samford seemed up for the Furman game… Hatcher's post-game comments focused on the inspired play of Gooden (9 tackles against Furman, 8 tackles against Wofford).

Not sure he alone - could have stopped The Citadel onslaught - but I do think The Citadel exposed something - they frustrated Samford's defense.

>> Back to Furman's inconsistency on offense without a healthy Harris Roberts. We finally got to see Hamp Sisson under normal conditions (he was thrown to the beast against The Citadel). Let me start out by saying — I have no idea what happens in practice, but Sisson looked like he had a handle on the running and the passing part of the offense. It left me scratching my head why hasn't Sisson played more this season? Maybe it's the whole redshirt thing — it's pretty obvious Furman is going to redshirt both Graninger and Sisson as both will only play a max of four games.

I think Furman is getting a good look at everyone. We sort of saw this heading into the season - Grainger may have the highest ceiling of any of the Furman QBs, but is still learning the position. Sisson, I think, was a more polished player having been a QB for a few years at a high level in Alabama. I think Lincoln probably is a better option QB than the other two at this stage. Hard to overlook Lincoln's gritty performance in Charleston.

The good news with the redshirt rules and a blowout win on Saturday is Furman is able to play a lot of guys. That will help in the future.

[PaladinFan]

Curious stat of the day.

Wofford has attempted more passes this year than Furman (though Furman has played fewer games).

Wofford needs 7 more attempts to pass its total number from 2017. So, they will throw more in 11 games this season than they did in 13 games last season.

[ElCid]

I'm not sure why but Samford seemed up for the Furman game… Hatcher's post-game comments focused on the inspired play of Gooden (9 tackles against Furman, 8 tackles against Wofford).

Not sure he alone - could have stopped The Citadel onslaught - but I do think The Citadel exposed something - they frustrated Samford's defense.



It was a tale of two games for us in our game this past week.

The first half possessions went this for a total of 125 yards and three 1st downs.

Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
TD - Short field

The second half went better obviously for 315 yards and 5 scores
Fumb
TD
Punt
TD
TD
TD
TD

The adjustments we made at half were obviously good. I am not that technical, but we founds some weakness on the Samford defense which opened up some seams. Plus as pointed out, we held the ball for almost 10 minutes in the Third and Samford's D got gassed pretty fast. By the time the fourth came around, they were done. Up 28-27, our 9 play 90 yard TD drive that took over five minutes from 9:22 to 4:16 in the 4th put it to bed. The last score was a shorter field after they went for it on 4th down on their side of the field.

But none of this could have happened if our D did not step up. Samford gained almost half of their entire yardage in the first quarter. Not to mention that we sacked Hodges five times! He had only been sacked 9 times up to that point this season.

We have gotten smothered in the first half all season. Our game planning has not been very good, but our second half adjustments have been excellent. We have been outscored 168-95 in the first half all year, but outscored our opponents 166-93 in the second half. Weird.

[PaladinFan]

It was a tale of two games for us in our game this past week.

The first half possessions went this for a total of 125 yards and three 1st downs.

Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
TD - Short field

The second half went better obviously for 315 yards and 5 scores
Fumb
TD
Punt
TD
TD
TD
TD

The adjustments we made at half were obviously good. I am not that technical, but we founds some weakness on the Samford defense which opened up some seams. Plus as pointed out, we held the ball for almost 10 minutes in the Third and Samford's D got gassed pretty fast. By the time the fourth came around, they were done. Up 28-27, our 9 play 90 yard TD drive that took over five minutes from 9:22 to 4:16 in the 4th put it to bed. The last score was a shorter field after they went for it on 4th down on their side of the field.

But none of this could have happened if our D did not step up. Samford gained almost half of their entire yardage in the first quarter. Not to mention that we sacked Hodges five times! He had only been sacked 9 times up to that point this season.

We have gotten smothered in the first half all season. Our game planning has not been very good, but our second half adjustments have been excellent. We have been outscored 168-95 in the first half all year, but outscored our opponents 166-93 in the second half. Weird.

I'm just noting that the "weakness on the Samford defense" may have been that arguably the most dominate defensive lineman in the country wasn't playing.

I agree with your general point, though. Citadel's defense made plays and seemed to be reading Samford's play book. One of the huge disadvantages of running Samford's style of offense is that if things aren't clicking offensively, your offense holds the ball for very little time and sends the defense right back out there. Against a pounding running game, that took its toll late.

[ElCid]

I'm just noting that the "weakness on the Samford defense" may have been that arguably the most dominate defensive lineman in the country wasn't playing.

I agree with your general point, though. Citadel's defense made plays and seemed to be reading Samford's play book. One of the huge disadvantages of running Samford's style of offense is that if things aren't clicking offensively, your offense holds the ball for very little time and sends the defense right back out there. Against a pounding running game, that took its toll late.

Maybe so. But conditioning and injuries are part of the game.

Another interesting fact is our new QB has almost run for as many yards in 2 games (405) as our previous QB did in 7 games (471). I like our prospects in the next couple years.

[PaladinFan]

I'm genuinely interested in the post-mortem from Samford fans.

I like Hatcher a lot. I think he got a bad shake in Statesboro, but is a likeable guy and has been good for Samford. Does he need to go back to the drawing board, though?

There are two teams in the league that just look physically bigger than most of the conference - Samford and UTC. Samford may have more All Americans than the rest of the SoCon combined. They have arguably the two best offensive players in school history and the best defensive player in school history playing at the same time.

What went wrong?

I was looking at Mike Leach's Washington State team. They are 9-1 and run a similar offense with similar run/pass percentages. So, even though air raid teams aren't winning national titles, I still think that offense can be successful.

I suppose the greater concern is where do you go from here? If Hodges and McKnight could not get it done, how does not-Hodges and not-McKnight get it done next year?

[PaladinFan]

Maybe so. But conditioning and injuries are part of the game.

Another interesting fact is our new QB has almost run for as many yards in 2 games (405) as our previous QB did in 7 games (471). I like our prospects in the next couple years.

Watching the Citadel operate against Samford made me that much more impressed with Furman's effort two weeks ago.

[ElCid]

Watching the Citadel operate against Samford made me that much more impressed with Furman's effort two weeks ago.

But I think the outcome may very well have been different had Rainey been playing instead of Black.:D But we will have to wait until next year to see.

[PaladinFan]

But I think the outcome may very well have been different had Rainey been playing instead of Black.:D But we will have to wait until next year to see.

This is possible. Other than a busted coverage on the long TD play (with an assist to the zebras for a missed call), Furman pretty much did a number on the Citadel offense the entire afternoon. You take out the 91 yard pass, and the Citadel only put up about 200 yards of offense against the Furman defense.

Maybe Rainey helps. Of course, the Citadel faced Furman's third string QB, so no real great advantage there.

[ElCid]

I'm genuinely interested in the post-mortem from Samford fans.

I like Hatcher a lot. I think he got a bad shake in Statesboro, but is a likeable guy and has been good for Samford. Does he need to go back to the drawing board, though?

There are two teams in the league that just look physically bigger than most of the conference - Samford and UTC. Samford may have more All Americans than the rest of the SoCon combined. They have arguably the two best offensive players in school history and the best defensive player in school history playing at the same time.

What went wrong?

I was looking at Mike Leach's Washington State team. They are 9-1 and run a similar offense with similar run/pass percentages. So, even though air raid teams aren't winning national titles, I still think that offense can be successful.

I suppose the greater concern is where do you go from here? If Hodges and McKnight could not get it done, how does not-Hodges and not-McKnight get it done next year?

Not sure what the Samford fans will have, but with the fairly good defenses that the SOCON usually has, their is no way that any team will get it done with just an air raid attack. With all the running teams in the SOCON playing ball control, you got to have a running game in the SOCON to be successful, plain and simple.

Samford's rushing stats from the last 4 years and SOCON record:

2018 - 127 YPG 4-3
2017 - 79 YPG 6-2
2016 - 103 YPG 5-3
2015 - 147 YPG 3-4

Averaging just over 100 yards a game is not going to get it done. Plus I think Samford just needs to bite the bullet and not schedule a Div II/III every year. That would help their playoff chances at least. One every 2 or 3 years isn't bad, but not every year.

[ElCid]

This is possible. Other than a busted coverage on the long TD play (with an assist to the zebras for a missed call), Furman pretty much did a number on the Citadel offense the entire afternoon. You take out the 91 yard pass, and the Citadel only put up about 200 yards of offense against the Furman defense.

Maybe Rainey helps. Of course, the Citadel faced Furman's third string QB, so no real great advantage there.

We did hold you to just around 300 yards as well. I think Rainey is just more of an explosive player than Black. And he runs much harder than Black. That time Rainey spent last year at BBack is paying off. After the game at Samford he has shown he can throw as well.

[Reign of Terrier]

Curious stat of the day.

Wofford has attempted more passes this year than Furman (though Furman has played fewer games).

Wofford needs 7 more attempts to pass its total number from 2017. So, they will throw more in 11 games this season than they did in 13 games last season.Wofford is on pace to complete and attempt more passes than we ever did in the Mike Ayers era.

Only one year did we have a higher completion percentage. Not only are we passing the ball more, but we are doing so more effectively. It supports my hypothesis that part of the reason option teams don't pass well is because they pass so little that they fail to develop chemistry between the passer and receiver.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Wofford is on pace to complete and attempt more passes than we ever did in the Mike Ayers era.

Only one year did we have a higher completion percentage. Not only are we passing the ball more, but we are doing so more effectively. It supports my hypothesis that part of the reason option teams don't pass well is because they pass so little that they fail to develop chemistry between the passer and receiver.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

That is true. I also think that you have to factor in that if you are a really good high school wide receiver, you probably aren't going to want to play for Wofford or the Citadel.

The Citadel is a good example. The Bulldogs' leading receiver, Raleigh Webb, didn't even play WR in high school (he was a safety). Their second leading receiver is a running back. The third leading receiver, who has only played, I think, in three games at the position, is a backup QB.

You just aren't going to get top game-changing receivers to come to school to block for 4 years in the hopes of catching 15 balls a year.

I think it is a similar story with Samford's running game. Do the Bulldogs have an anemic run game because of the air raid design, or is it just harder to find top quality running backs in recruiting when your offense is going to throw it 60-70 times a game?

[ElCid]

That is true. I also think that you have to factor in that if you are a really good high school wide receiver, you probably aren't going to want to play for Wofford or the Citadel.

The Citadel is a good example. The Bulldogs' leading receiver, Raleigh Webb, didn't even play WR in high school (he was a safety). Their second leading receiver is a running back. The third leading receiver, who has only played, I think, in three games at the position, is a backup QB.

You just aren't going to get top game-changing receivers to come to school to block for 4 years in the hopes of catching 15 balls a year.

I think it is a similar story with Samford's running game. Do the Bulldogs have an anemic run game because of the air raid design, or is it just harder to find top quality running backs in recruiting when your offense is going to throw it 60-70 times a game?


Good points. But Raleigh has caught 16 so far this year...for 23 yards a catch average.:D But the point is taken.

[PaladinFan]

Good points. But Raleigh has caught 16 so far this year...for 23 yards a catch average.:D But the point is taken.

One thing I like about what Furman is doing offensively is that it should be an appealing system for a high school recruit.

The QBs run and throw. We use fullbacks and TEs, who both block and catch. We rotate a bunch of running backs and use them in the passing game. We also throw the ball enough to keep WRs interested. The offensive linemen get to learn from a coach who has a great reputation coaching that position.

[Reign of Terrier]

That is true. I also think that you have to factor in that if you are a really good high school wide receiver, you probably aren't going to want to play for Wofford or the Citadel.

The Citadel is a good example. The Bulldogs' leading receiver, Raleigh Webb, didn't even play WR in high school (he was a safety). Their second leading receiver is a running back. The third leading receiver, who has only played, I think, in three games at the position, is a backup QB.

You just aren't going to get top game-changing receivers to come to school to block for 4 years in the hopes of catching 15 balls a year.

I think it is a similar story with Samford's running game. Do the Bulldogs have an anemic run game because of the air raid design, or is it just harder to find top quality running backs in recruiting when your offense is going to throw it 60-70 times a game?The counterpoint is that Wofford has been pitching to wide outs for years that we were going to pass more. This year we finally did it. All of our wide outs originally played the position (which btw all are coming back next year).

TJ Luther is actually the ultimate counterexample. We originally recruited him as a DB, even though he played WR in high school. We changed our mind and he has been a game changer.

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[PaladinFan]

The counterpoint is that Wofford has been pitching to wide outs for years that we were going to pass more. This year we finally did it. All of our wide outs originally played the position (which btw all are coming back next year).

TJ Luther is actually the ultimate counterexample. We originally recruited him as a DB, even though he played WR in high school. We changed our mind and he has been a game changer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

There was a prevailing theory of many football coaches who may not have access to the top athletes that you put your best athletes in defense and then make an offense out of what's left. Wofford probably did this a good bit under Ayers - putting their best players on defense and then running an offense designed to best leverage their athletes.

I disagree that Luther is an "ultimate counterexample." You look at Wofford's passing numbers and they are only slightly outperforming last year's passing totals. Luther is a good player, but he still has only 10 catches in 10 games. That is the same number as Furman TE Jake Walker and only two more than Devin Wynn (in fewer games). Furman, of course, distributes the ball to a lot more folks than Wofford does.

While they may have been selling recruits on more passing, I don't think you are seeing a concerted effort to do that. Yes, they are throwing the ball more, but not drastically more. The Terriers are still saddled with two QBs neither of whom are particularly accurate.

[PaladinFan]

Because I like posting some of these highlight videos, this one really stood out to me.

This new Furman staff has really focused heavily on the "little things" that need to happen in a game. Things that you might overlook watching the game in real time. Things that prior coaching staffs didn't seem to focus on. The stuff that might make the difference in winning and losing.

This play stood out. The birds eye view is a nice gainer for Furman. Roberts run fakes to the left, rolls out to his right, and hits Jake Walker (who runs a beautiful route) for what should have been about a 7 or 8 yard gain. Walker breaks a tackle and goes nearly 70 for the touchdown.

What struck me was all the guys not involved in the pitch and catch. The five offensive linemen and the running back carry that playfake out past the numbers. They do not look back to watch the pass. Their job is to make VMI's defense think Furman is running the ball to that side, not to give away the play by slowing down, not carrying out the fake, or looking back to see what happened. Sell the run.

The play itself is also a nice design. The only guys on the field that can create a problem here is the OLB or a blitzing CB. The QBs footwork is such that he never takes his eyes off either of those guys. If one came hard in the backfield, Roberts has Thomas Gordon is right in front of him. Walker is an easy pitch and catch on a play designed to set up third and long, instead it is a touchdown.

Great block too by Avery Armstrong downfield to spring Walker. He blocks his man for 3 or 4 seconds. Armstrong doesn't catch the ball much, but he's an invaluable downfield blocker.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1061753565612597248

[SU DOG]

I do not speak for all Samford Fans, but will chime in on my own. I have never been completely sold on the Air Raid Offense, but with Hodges and his surrounding talent I was optimistic that we would win big. I was obviously wrong. As for the running game, or lack of, I think our big O-Line is so used to pass blocking that it is difficult for them to drive block players off the LOS. I can assure you that we DO NOT have a problem signing very good RBs. We currently have on the roster a former 3*** RB, a senior Alabama All-State RB, and a highly touted true Fr. who was a 5A All State RB in Mississippi, captain of his team in the Mississippi All-Star Game, and led the state in rushing yards his senior year.

My BIG question for us is this: If not this year then WHEN? Obviously, it won't be this year. So much talent, so much underachievement. I am bitterly disappointed. Right now I would make whale dung in the bottom of the deep blue sea look like billows of fleecy white clouds in the sky.

[woffordgrad94]

FWIW, Wofford has a 60% pass completion rate this season. Is that inaccurate?

[walliver]

I wonder if Samford might actually be better off without a SuperStar QB as it would force the coaching staff to develop a more rounded offense.

Over the last 4 years, Hodges made a lot of big plays out of busted plays and aggressive blitz's that in other hands would have been incompletions and sacks. Without Hodges, a more diverse play-calling scheme will be needed. Wofford had similar issues when Breitenstein was at fullback. Our whole offense revolved around the fullback up the middle or fullback outside pitch.

[Reign of Terrier]

My BIG question for us is this: If not this year then WHEN? Obviously, it won't be this year. So much talent, so much underachievement. I am bitterly disappointed. Right now I would make whale dung in the bottom of the deep blue sea look like billows of fleecy white clouds in the sky.

Last year. It was last year


FWIW, Wofford has a 60% pass completion rate this season. Is that inaccurate?

That is correct. We are 5th in the conference in completion percentage.

Joe Newman is so bad that the only 2 INTs he's thrown since game 3 were a sack pass and a no-call pass interference xrolleyesx

I love how the goal posts have been moved against Wofford's passing game this year. When the year first started, it was Newman that wasn't the good passer. Now, he's having the second best year of any passer in decades and apparently he's still not good. But we go a step farther and downgrade Miller Moseley to a not-good passer, when (non Wofford) people were saying he was a much better passer before the season started. Put aside the fact that Moseley is 4th in the conference in pass efficiency and one of his two picks likely happened when he had a concussion.

Wofford can't win for losing when it comes to this stuff. No, we're not at Furman or Samford's or Tyrie Adams's level of efficiency, but to say we aren't good is kind of changing the definition of "good" in the first place. The QB is primarily a runner in our offense and we're obviously not trying to throw the ball 30 times a game. If we did, our offense would have to overhaul its strategy to be unrecognizable from what it is now. Could Newman or Moseley throw it 20+ times a game and be at the same level? It's hard to say for certain, but neither has been widely off in their throws to suggest they would collapse.

Wofford's passing game is RPOs, a couple gadget quick routes (whatever you call it when you run a corner route and an in/hitch on the same side of the field), and the occasional home run ball. Basically, we throw the ball at all levels of the field, when as recently as 2 years ago we only threw the deep balls. We have a better sample of our QBs throwing at varying distances than we ever have. We're just as good, if not better than normal. We're not Furman (who runs quick routes to the running backs in the flats and to the tight ends) or Samford (who does more drop back passing, slant routes, etc), but I have a hard time thinking either Newman or Moseley would have a hard time running at least Furman's offense. Newman isn't a pro-style QB; he's not even Tyrie Adams. But to say he's a not-good passer kind of defies the statistics, demanding our offense be something that it's not. If anything, the weakness in our passing game is wide outs dropping catch-able passes. It's not the QBs.

Wofford's strategy is run first, and pass to make up for long third downs or to use RPOs to get quick, easy yards. We do that pretty well. Anyone can nitpick completion percentages, but Joe Newman hasn't had a bad game since September.

[SU DOG]

I wonder if Samford might actually be better off without a SuperStar QB as it would force the coaching staff to develop a more rounded offense.

Over the last 4 years, Hodges made a lot of big plays out of busted plays and aggressive blitz's that in other hands would have been incompletions and sacks. Without Hodges, a more diverse play-calling scheme will be needed. Wofford had similar issues when Breitenstein was at fullback. Our whole offense revolved around the fullback up the middle or fullback outside pitch.

Question is - will Coach Hatcher ever field a team with a balanced or more rounded offense?

[Reign of Terrier]

Question is - will Coach Hatcher ever field a team with a balanced or more rounded offense?

I honestly think Hatcher's success at the D2 level had a lot to do with having better athletes (he could run the ball better and play better defense). At the D1 level, there's more parity in athleticism.

The difference between an air raid offense and an option offense is that the minimal "output" if you will of a rushing offense is higher. Passing the ball inherently has more moving parts. Incomplete passes just happen. That's why you see a lot of fluidity in outcomes among air raid teams at the division one level. Just look at how Washington State and Texas Tech have played. Meanwhile, with teams like Wofford, Navy, and Georgia Tech, you know what you're going to expect. Upsetting them is pretty rare. They getting blown out happens, but not against teams you wouldn't expect.

The same principle for the air raid offenses applies for Samford, except I think it's worse. Hatcher actually wants to run the ball when he's not good at it.

Now, he definitely has a more patient administration than he did at Georgia Southern and a better pool of recruits than he did at Murray State. But the competition is as tough as it's always been as are the athletes he has.

Starting next year, you can definitely say his outcomes are on his own coaching. We know he can win (sometimes) in the Socon. But can he be consistent? Can he win a playoff game? I think you have to up your standards if you're Samford. You *know* you can recruit the athletes to win the Socon and go on a playoff run (because the former implies the latter IMO). Hatcher may not be the guy to do it because of his inconsistency.

Samford isn't Chattanooga under Huesman, Western Carolina under Spier, or Mercer under Lamb. You don't have to start from the foundation to create a consistently successful program. Going forward, I think Hatcher has bought time because he won't be expected to perform at an ultra high level next year. But I would not be surprised if he gets let go in 2020 or 2021 if the Bulldogs fail to produce.

[PaladinFan]

I honestly think Hatcher's success at the D2 level had a lot to do with having better athletes (he could run the ball better and play better defense). At the D1 level, there's more parity in athleticism.

The difference between an air raid offense and an option offense is that the minimal "output" if you will of a rushing offense is higher. Passing the ball inherently has more moving parts. Incomplete passes just happen. That's why you see a lot of fluidity in outcomes among air raid teams at the division one level. Just look at how Washington State and Texas Tech have played. Meanwhile, with teams like Wofford, Navy, and Georgia Tech, you know what you're going to expect. Upsetting them is pretty rare. They getting blown out happens, but not against teams you wouldn't expect.

The same principle for the air raid offenses applies for Samford, except I think it's worse. Hatcher actually wants to run the ball when he's not good at it.

Now, he definitely has a more patient administration than he did at Georgia Southern and a better pool of recruits than he did at Murray State. But the competition is as tough as it's always been as are the athletes he has.

Starting next year, you can definitely say his outcomes are on his own coaching. We know he can win (sometimes) in the Socon. But can he be consistent? Can he win a playoff game? I think you have to up your standards if you're Samford. You *know* you can recruit the athletes to win the Socon and go on a playoff run (because the former implies the latter IMO). Hatcher may not be the guy to do it because of his inconsistency.

Samford isn't Chattanooga under Huesman, Western Carolina under Spier, or Mercer under Lamb. You don't have to start from the foundation to create a consistently successful program. Going forward, I think Hatcher has bought time because he won't be expected to perform at an ultra high level next year. But I would not be surprised if he gets let go in 2020 or 2021 if the Bulldogs fail to produce.

Also at least worth considering his coaches. Remember, at VSU, both Will Muschamp and Kirby Smart were on Hatcher's defensive staff.

[Reign of Terrier]

I still think #GetHatched should be a thing.

[gofurman]

Also at least worth considering his coaches. Remember, at VSU, both Will Muschamp and Kirby Smart were on Hatcher's defensive staff.

Good catch

- - - Updated - - -


I still think #GetHatched should be a thing.

LOL

[gofurman]

Last year. It was last year



That is correct. We are 5th in the conference in completion percentage.

Joe Newman is so bad that the only 2 INTs he's thrown since game 3 were a sack pass and a no-call pass interference xrolleyesx

I love how the goal posts have been moved against Wofford's passing game this year. When the year first started, it was Newman that wasn't the good passer. Now, he's having the second best year of any passer in decades and apparently he's still not good. But we go a step farther and downgrade Miller Moseley to a not-good passer, when (non Wofford) people were saying he was a much better passer before the season started. Put aside the fact that Moseley is 4th in the conference in pass efficiency and one of his two picks likely happened when he had a concussion.

Wofford can't win for losing when it comes to this stuff. No, we're not at Furman or Samford's or Tyrie Adams's level of efficiency, but to say we aren't good is kind of changing the definition of "good" in the first place. The QB is primarily a runner in our offense and we're obviously not trying to throw the ball 30 times a game. If we did, our offense would have to overhaul its strategy to be unrecognizable from what it is now. Could Newman or Moseley throw it 20+ times a game and be at the same level? It's hard to say for certain, but neither has been widely off in their throws to suggest they would collapse.

Wofford's passing game is RPOs, a couple gadget quick routes (whatever you call it when you run a corner route and an in/hitch on the same side of the field), and the occasional home run ball. Basically, we throw the ball at all levels of the field, when as recently as 2 years ago we only threw the deep balls. We have a better sample of our QBs throwing at varying distances than we ever have. We're just as good, if not better than normal. We're not Furman (who runs quick routes to the running backs in the flats and to the tight ends) or Samford (who does more drop back passing, slant routes, etc), but I have a hard time thinking either Newman or Moseley would have a hard time running at least Furman's offense. Newman isn't a pro-style QB; he's not even Tyrie Adams. But to say he's a not-good passer kind of defies the statistics, demanding our offense be something that it's not. If anything, the weakness in our passing game is wide outs dropping catch-able passes. It's not the QBs.

Wofford's strategy is run first, and pass to make up for long third downs or to use RPOs to get quick, easy yards. We do that pretty well. Anyone can nitpick completion percentages, but Joe Newman hasn't had a bad game since September.


Anecdotally I think Wofford is much better than the 90s/ early 2000 teams at passing. I recall stat lines like 57 rushes 7 passes for Woff teams of that era. 3-6-1 passing. They threw once or twice as a surprise and otherwise on third downs. And they were RBs that were passing at QB. Problem was if you only throw on third and long that's putting an 'ok' QB (the passers they had then) in at tough situation

now i I think they throw 12-15 times a game (not checking the stat line but that's my read) and it does back the D off a little and gives them a better sell to WRs. And they pass better. Better practice between QB and. WR in game reps. Better for when you have to make a third and long. I'm all for running option every play but there comes a time you have to pass against the top teams and if you haven't practiced it a little vs Gardner Webb it's tough vs a top defense

as a Furman fan I wish Wofford would pass less again xthumbsupx. Easier to defend third and five when you are 70% sure it's a run. Now you aren't quite as sure what Woff will do

[PaladinFan]

Question is - will Coach Hatcher ever field a team with a balanced or more rounded offense?

I guess the question is - does he need to?

Is Samford's lack of a running game (for instance) the cause of their struggles or is that just an easy foil? Washington State, for instance, runs a similar offense with similar run/pass percentages to Samford and is 9-1. Does it make a difference that Samford plays against a schedule with a lot of heavy run-based teams?

I don't watch Samford closely enough to decide whether this is a Chris Hatcher problem. Why do the Bulldogs look unstoppable at times and then cannot seem to find the first down line at others?

One small distinction I can find between Washington State and Samford is ball distribution and turnovers. Samford has attempted 507 passes in 10 games. WaSu has attempted 537. Similar completion percentages (69%).

Washington State throws the ball to a bunch of different guys like Samford does, but does it with a higher distribution percentage. For instance, Samford's leading receiver, Kelvin McKnight, has caught 88 balls. Washington State's has caught 63. WaSu has 6 receivers with 30+ catches and Samford has 2.

Could it be something as simple as becoming less predictable with where you are going with the ball? Close to half of all Hodges' completions are going to McKnight or Shelling. If I am a defensive coordinator, I can work with those percentages and give me a pretty good idea of where to deploy my defense.

Also, turnovers. Samford is -5 in turnovers, only ahed of VMI, and their 22 turnovers are worst in the SoCon. The air raid, at its core, is a ball control offense. It loses its effectiveness if you cannot hang onto the ball.

Playing percentages, defenses can pretty well guess that (1) Samford is going to throw it, and (2) they are going to throw it to McKnight or Shelling. Seems like you can increase your likelihood of forcing a turnover or two in a game on those facts alone. You may only have to guess right once or twice a game.

[ElCid]

I guess the question is - does he need to?

Is Samford's lack of a running game (for instance) the cause of their struggles or is that just an easy foil? Washington State, for instance, runs a similar offense with similar run/pass percentages to Samford and is 9-1. Does it make a difference that Samford plays against a schedule with a lot of heavy run-based teams?

I don't watch Samford closely enough to decide whether this is a Chris Hatcher problem. Why do the Bulldogs look unstoppable at times and then cannot seem to find the first down line at others?

One small distinction I can find between Washington State and Samford is ball distribution and turnovers. Samford has attempted 507 passes in 10 games. WaSu has attempted 537. Similar completion percentages (69%).

Washington State throws the ball to a bunch of different guys like Samford does, but does it with a higher distribution percentage. For instance, Samford's leading receiver, Kelvin McKnight, has caught 88 balls. Washington State's has caught 63. WaSu has 6 receivers with 30+ catches and Samford has 2.

Could it be something as simple as becoming less predictable with where you are going with the ball? Close to half of all Hodges' completions are going to McKnight or Shelling. If I am a defensive coordinator, I can work with those percentages and give me a pretty good idea of where to deploy my defense.

Also, turnovers. Samford is -5 in turnovers, only ahed of VMI, and their 22 turnovers are worst in the SoCon. The air raid, at its core, is a ball control offense. It loses its effectiveness if you cannot hang onto the ball.

Playing percentages, defenses can pretty well guess that (1) Samford is going to throw it, and (2) they are going to throw it to McKnight or Shelling. Seems like you can increase your likelihood of forcing a turnover or two in a game on those facts alone. You may only have to guess right once or twice a game.

Those are all good points to ponder, but why wouldn't you try to get the ball in your best receivers hands?

Samford strikes quick. I know a year or two ago, their average scoring drive was under two minutes. I haven't figured it out for this year, but I bet it still under two minutes. That allows their D to rest for hardly any time. Part of our success was that our offense worn their D down. Would Samford mixing it up with more runs, give their D a few more minutes of rest make any difference? Would Samford have less success in number of passes completed as a result? Would they get a little more unpredictable and keep opposing Defenses guessing? I think a combination of a little of each of those, but overall it would be beneficial for them.

[PaladinFan]

Those are all good points to ponder, but why wouldn't you try to get the ball in your best receivers hands?

Samford strikes quick. I know a year or two ago, their average scoring drive was under two minutes. I haven't figured it out for this year, but I bet it still under two minutes. That allows their D to rest for hardly any time. Part of our success was that our offense worn their D down. Would Samford mixing it up with more runs, give their D a few more minutes of rest make any difference? Would Samford have less success in number of passes completed as a result? Would they get a little more unpredictable and keep opposing Defenses guessing? I think a combination of a little of each of those, but overall it would be beneficial for them.

I do not disagree with you, but here's my point -

Samford has run 804 plays this year. 63% of those plays are passes.

25% of all of Hodges completions go to Kelvin McKnight (88). 41% of completions go to McKnight or Shelling. I cannot find records of targets, but I presume that similar numbers would be true for incomplete passes as well. So, I would guess that perhaps 25% of all of Samford's throws go to one player.

You might think that 63% of all plays may not be that much, but it is when you consider that Samford rarely runs the ball on third down. For instance, against the Citadel, Samford attempted a running play on third down only twice all game, and both times it was 3rd and 2. I didn't check their other games, but I imagine they would show similar tendencies.

So, if I am the Citadel's defensive coordinator, I can make two pretty educated guesses: (1) if it is 3rd and 3 or longer, Samford is almost assuredly going to throw it (100% of the time on Saturday), and (2) If they throw it, there is at least a 1 in 4 chance they are throwing it to Kelvin McKnight.

Every football team has tendencies, of course, but it just seems like Samford mitigates the one great advantage any offense has - they know where the ball is going. The way Samford distributes the ball, though, I think a defense can pretty well guess where the play is going depending on the situation. If you could tell me as a coordinator that on this play I am virtually positive they are going to throw it and most likely throw it to one guy, I can make defensive adjustments necessary to accommodate for that. I don't have to guess right every time, but in a close game, I just need to guess right once.

I presume that is why you see Hodges' high number of interceptions. Not that he isn't accurate, but that the defense can eliminate a lot of possible places where the ball is going.

[CID1990]

Hatcher lost to The Citadel with some pretty dominant GSU teams too.

I’d say the problem for Samford is Hatcher

[PaladinFan]

SoCon is adding a bit of clarity to the AQ issue: http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211780741&DB_OEM_ID=4000&_ga=2.227991709.1406492966.1542315701-1406335793.1516044874



• ETSU can claim the title outright and the league’s automatic berth with a win over Samford on Saturday.
• Wofford, which beat Western Carolina 38-23 to move to 6-2 in league play, can clinch the AQ with losses by Furman and ETSU on Saturday. The Terriers own the head-to-head tiebreaker over ETSU should the squads finish tied in league play.
• In the event of a three-way tie at 6-2, Furman, which downed VMI on Nov. 10, would claim the AQ if it allows 16 points or fewer in a win at Mercer. If the Paladins allow more than 16 points, regardless of the margin of victory, Wofford, which wraps its regular season by hosting Presbyterian on Saturday, would win the AQ by virtue of allowing the fewest points in SoCon play among the tied teams.


Not sure I've ever seen a football game (outside of betting, I guess) where fans will be pulling not only for the result, but a specific score.

[kdinva]

This Week's Games


The Citadel 13 @ Alabama 54
Samford 26 @ ETSU 28
Presbyterian 17 @ Wofford 52
VMI 23 @ Old Dominion 42
Furman 28 @ Mercer 21
UTC 13 @ South Carolina 42
WCU 21 @ UNC 35

[PaladinFan]

SoCon is adding a bit of clarity to the AQ issue: http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211780741&DB_OEM_ID=4000&_ga=2.227991709.1406492966.1542315701-1406335793.1516044874



Not sure I've ever seen a football game (outside of betting, I guess) where fans will be pulling not only for the result, but a specific score.

This also seems to simply the question of a tie between Wofford and Furman. Looks like there will not be a coin flip as Furman will get the benefit of the head to win over Wofford.

[Sir William]

The Citadel @ Alabama
Presbyterian @ Wofford
VMI @ Old Dominion
UTC @ South Carolina
WCU @ UNC (upset special)

Samford @ ETSU
Furman @ Mercer (Mercer scores 13)

[kdinva]

http://southernpigskin.com/socon/vmis-udinski-producing-progressing/

[ElCid]

http://southernpigskin.com/socon/vmis-udinski-producing-progressing/

Nice article. One correction, he didn't throw 5 TDs against us like it said. Now he just needs to translate that into wins.

[Scrappy94]

1. Wofford
2. Furman
3. Samford
4. ETSU
5. Chattanooga
6. The Citadel
7. Mercer
8. Western Carolina
9. VMI

The Citadel @ Alabama - 56-0
Samford @ ETSU - 34-24
Presbyterian @ Wofford - 38-6
VMI @ Old Dominion - 49-24
Furman @ Mercer - 31-27
Chattanooga @ South Carolina - 35-7

[FUBeAR]

1. Wofford
2. Furman
3. Samford
4. ETSU
5. Chattanooga
6. The Citadel
9. Mercer
7. Western Carolina
8. VMI

The Citadel @ Alabama - 56-0
Samford @ ETSU - 34-24
Presbyterian @ Wofford - 38-6
VMI @ Old Dominion - 49-24
Furman @ Mercer - 31-27
Chattanooga @ South Carolina - 35-75, 6, 9, 7, 8

I’ve heard of “Wofford Math” in regard to reporting attendance numbers, but is “Chatt Counting” also a thing?

[ETSUfan1]

Anytime Scrappy picks against ETSU, I feel great about the Bucs chances.

[Reign of Terrier]

There are two reasons I'm rooting for Samford against the Bucs (but want the Bucs to win at least one playoff game)

1) The Brand (#GetHatched)

2) Socon championship for Wofford.

[woffordgrad94]

We get Hatched every year so I’m rooting for Hatch to get sacked (something we can never do to Hodges). An ETSU victory might help make that happen but then Wofford misses out on the autobid. I’m torn.

[FUBeAR]

PowerPoll

1) Furman - clicking on all cylinders, peaking at the right time. VERY healthy compared to most Teams at this time of year GREAT Coaching. Excellent Sr. Leadership - Roberts, Reid, Gibson, Anoor, Washington, Okonya. Young Talent rising - Hope, Wynn, Walker, McKoy, Atkins - Hard to find much not to like about this Team

2) Wofford - Well, they should win by about 253 points this week...or more, and, unlike Furman, they are free to give up as many points as they would like...but they don't need to worry about that because PC can'tscore. Solid squad with a few chinks in the armor in this transition time - D tactics are suspect (to me and to Tyrie Adams...he called it a "Mike Reduction"...keep doing that and the only thing they are going to reduce is their win total...and, obviously to Furman's Offensive Staff). They have some semblance of a passing game now, but it has a way to go yet, IMO. Looking forward to seeing them in the Playoffs

3) Mercer - evaluating them at near full strength this week. I have no knowledge if Riley, Riddle, Mitchell, and/or Durden will play, but I'm pretending they are. Assuming 3 of those 4 EXCEPTIONAL Offensive Players are back AND the Defense plays like it has been recently, this is a Playoff quality Team. Without a trigger-man, their Top RB, and their 2nd best WR, they are #6 or #7 in the SoCon. IMO, as is, they are 2 PLAYS away from 7-3/6-1 and playing FU for an outright or shared SoCon Championship this week...but 2 plays is 2 plays the Bears 'own' (although 1 of the 2 was a bad call/bad review)...so they aren't.

4) Samford - Also evaluating them at somewhere on the spectrum of 'full-strength.' I sure don't want to give Coach Hatcher any excuses, but Samford's D is as emasculated as Mercer's O. I look at CIT as their 1 'bad' loss and Chatt as almost bad loss #2. They finish strong tomorrow - Hodges gets McNair's record...and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a good number of transfers in the off-season. They already take a lot. Not a Chatt-ish amount, but quite a few. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an exp'd FBS QB Transfer, with experience, but who has lost his job..and feels like he can't afford to sit out a year.

5) ETSU - Still feel like they are slotted right at #5. ALL HAIL THE BUCS for winning the games they've won...but a PowerPoll isn't Standings...or we would call them "Standings." They Bucs are battlers and they have figured out how to "not lose." Great qualities for any Team to have, but I just don't see enough to expect them to do to much in the Playoffs. WOULD LOVE to be wrong.

6) Chatt - 1/3 of a Team is better than none...in most cases. They are solid on D...no question...and they could be better than they are on O. Despite having 19 FBS Transfers starting at the 5 OL positions (you do the math), I am not impressed with their OL...and if FUBeAR don't like your OL, you're not going to be able to be ranked high. Do better on O Mocs...and on Special Teams...those are not vey good either.

7) CIT - Congrats on the 2 wins and on finding "the right" QB for the Offense...but that strong performance against one of the worst Defenses to ever take a College Football Field AND 1 that has been devastated with a raft of injuries, don't have me ready to anoint him as the 2nd Coming of Jack Douglas just yet. #BeatBama...then we'll talk about a battlefield promotion

8) WCU - Tyrie Adams wraps up his Catamount career the way it's been for his prior 3 years...running for his life; doing amazing things and watching WCU get kil't.

9) VMI - 0-1...and a new streak has begun!



The Citadel @ Alabama - 77-0
Samford @ ETSU - 49-14
Presbyterian @ Wofford - 253-0, more if they want it
VMI @ Old Dominion - 56-7Chatt @ USC - 10-6

[ETSUfan1]

PowerPoll

1) Furman - clicking on all cylinders, peaking at the right time. VERY healthy compared to most Teams at this time of year GREAT Coaching. Excellent Sr. Leadership - Roberts, Reid, Gibson, Anoor, Washington, Okonya. Young Talent rising - Hope, Wynn, Walker, McKoy, Atkins - Hard to find much not to like about this Team

2) Wofford - Well, they should win by about 253 points this week...or more, and, unlike Furman, they are free to give up as many points as they would like...but they don't need to worry about that because PC can'tscore. Solid squad with a few chinks in the armor in this transition time - D tactics are suspect (to me and to Tyrie Adams...he called it a "Mike Reduction"...keep doing that and the only thing they are going to reduce is their win total...and, obviously to Furman's Offensive Staff). They have some semblance of a passing game now, but it has a way to go yet, IMO. Looking forward to seeing them in the Playoffs

3) Mercer - evaluating them at near full strength this week. I have no knowledge if Riley, Riddle, Mitchell, and/or Durden will play, but I'm pretending they are. Assuming 3 of those 4 EXCEPTIONAL Offensive Players are back AND the Defense plays like it has been recently, this is a Playoff quality Team. Without a trigger-man, their Top RB, and their 2nd best WR, they are #6 or #7 in the SoCon. IMO, as is, they are 2 PLAYS away from 7-3/6-1 and playing FU for an outright or shared SoCon Championship this week...but 2 plays is 2 plays the Bears 'own' (although 1 of the 2 was a bad call/bad review)...so they aren't.

4) Samford - Also evaluating them at somewhere on the spectrum of 'full-strength.' I sure don't want to give Coach Hatcher any excuses, but Samford's D is as emasculated as Mercer's O. I look at CIT as their 1 'bad' loss and Chatt as almost bad loss #2. They finish strong tomorrow - Hodges gets McNair's record...and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a good number of transfers in the off-season. They already take a lot. Not a Chatt-ish amount, but quite a few. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an exp'd FBS QB Transfer, with experience, but who has lost his job..and feels like he can't afford to sit out a year.

5) ETSU - Still feel like they are slotted right at #5. ALL HAIL THE BUCS for winning the games they've won...but a PowerPoll isn't Standings...or we would call them "Standings." They Bucs are battlers and they have figured out how to "not lose." Great qualities for any Team to have, but I just don't see enough to expect them to do to much in the Playoffs. WOULD LOVE to be wrong.

6) Chatt - 1/3 of a Team is better than none...in most cases. They are solid on D...no question...and they could be better than they are on O. Despite having 19 FBS Transfers starting at the 5 OL positions (you do the math), I am not impressed with their OL...and if FUBeAR don't like your OL, you're not going to be able to be ranked high. Do better on O Mocs...and on Special Teams...those are not vey good either.

7) CIT - Congrats on the 2 wins and on finding "the right" QB for the Offense...but that strong performance against one of the worst Defenses to ever take a College Football Field AND 1 that has been devastated with a raft of injuries, don't have me ready to anoint him as the 2nd Coming of Jack Douglas just yet. #BeatBama...then we'll talk about a battlefield promotion

8) WCU - Tyrie Adams wraps up his Catamount career the way it's been for his prior 3 years...running for his life; doing amazing things and watching WCU get kil't.

9) VMI - 0-1...and a new streak has begun!



The Citadel @ Alabama - 77-0
Samford @ ETSU - 49-14
Presbyterian @ Wofford - 253-0, more if they want it
VMI @ Old Dominion - 56-7Chatt @ USC - 10-6



Good thing we are running out of weeks, or ETSU might soon be dead last.

[ElCid]

Good thing we are running out of weeks, or ETSU might soon be dead last.

Yeah and we will end up below VMI. Too funny.

And as far as Samford goes, I think Mercer is their worst loss. Does Mercer even have a good win?

[woffordgrad94]

PowerPoll

1) Furman - clicking on all cylinders, peaking at the right time. VERY healthy compared to most Teams at this time of year GREAT Coaching. Excellent Sr. Leadership - Roberts, Reid, Gibson, Anoor, Washington, Okonya. Young Talent rising - Hope, Wynn, Walker, McKoy, Atkins - Hard to find much not to like about this Team

2) Wofford - Well, they should win by about 253 points this week...or more, and, unlike Furman, they are free to give up as many points as they would like...but they don't need to worry about that because PC can'tscore. Solid squad with a few chinks in the armor in this transition time - D tactics are suspect (to me and to Tyrie Adams...he called it a "Mike Reduction"...keep doing that and the only thing they are going to reduce is their win total...and, obviously to Furman's Offensive Staff). They have some semblance of a passing game now, but it has a way to go yet, IMO. Looking forward to seeing them in the Playoffs

3) Mercer - evaluating them at near full strength this week. I have no knowledge if Riley, Riddle, Mitchell, and/or Durden will play, but I'm pretending they are. Assuming 3 of those 4 EXCEPTIONAL Offensive Players are back AND the Defense plays like it has been recently, this is a Playoff quality Team. Without a trigger-man, their Top RB, and their 2nd best WR, they are #6 or #7 in the SoCon. IMO, as is, they are 2 PLAYS away from 7-3/6-1 and playing FU for an outright or shared SoCon Championship this week...but 2 plays is 2 plays the Bears 'own' (although 1 of the 2 was a bad call/bad review)...so they aren't.

4) Samford - Also evaluating them at somewhere on the spectrum of 'full-strength.' I sure don't want to give Coach Hatcher any excuses, but Samford's D is as emasculated as Mercer's O. I look at CIT as their 1 'bad' loss and Chatt as almost bad loss #2. They finish strong tomorrow - Hodges gets McNair's record...and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a good number of transfers in the off-season. They already take a lot. Not a Chatt-ish amount, but quite a few. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an exp'd FBS QB Transfer, with experience, but who has lost his job..and feels like he can't afford to sit out a year.

5) ETSU - Still feel like they are slotted right at #5. ALL HAIL THE BUCS for winning the games they've won...but a PowerPoll isn't Standings...or we would call them "Standings." They Bucs are battlers and they have figured out how to "not lose." Great qualities for any Team to have, but I just don't see enough to expect them to do to much in the Playoffs. WOULD LOVE to be wrong.

6) Chatt - 1/3 of a Team is better than none...in most cases. They are solid on D...no question...and they could be better than they are on O. Despite having 19 FBS Transfers starting at the 5 OL positions (you do the math), I am not impressed with their OL...and if FUBeAR don't like your OL, you're not going to be able to be ranked high. Do better on O Mocs...and on Special Teams...those are not vey good either.

7) CIT - Congrats on the 2 wins and on finding "the right" QB for the Offense...but that strong performance against one of the worst Defenses to ever take a College Football Field AND 1 that has been devastated with a raft of injuries, don't have me ready to anoint him as the 2nd Coming of Jack Douglas just yet. #BeatBama...then we'll talk about a battlefield promotion

8) WCU - Tyrie Adams wraps up his Catamount career the way it's been for his prior 3 years...running for his life; doing amazing things and watching WCU get kil't.

9) VMI - 0-1...and a new streak has begun!



The Citadel @ Alabama - 77-0
Samford @ ETSU - 49-14
Presbyterian @ Wofford - 253-0, more if they want it
VMI @ Old Dominion - 56-7Chatt @ USC - 10-6

Wow! Wofford is going to comfortably break the NCAA record of 222 points in a football game set by Georgia Tech over 100 years ago in 1916 against Cumberland College. I better make sure I’m in attendance for that!

[ElCid]

How about those Dogs. The Citadel with ball in Bama territory after they forced a Bama punt. 7-0 Bama with 12 to go in half. Go Dogs!

[Reign of Terrier]

Do yourself a favor and follow the citadel football Twitter account. Wonderful.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

SoCon baby xthumbsupx


Citadel would be smoking Bama if the game was in Chucktown

[Reign of Terrier]

Worth mentioning: Andre Stoddard hurt his shoulder last week against Western Carolina. He won't play today against PC. I think it's precautionary.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[OrangeAndBlack]

The Citadel should be very proud of themselves, regardless of how the 2nd half goes. I'm rooting for them!

[Reign of Terrier]

So PC scored on their opening drive and Wofford is taking it's time. I'm not worried about this one but it looks like we won't score 50 in this one like I thought

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

SoCon baby xthumbsupx


Citadel would be smoking Bama if the game was in Chucktown

You don't realize how big Bama is until you see them next to an FCS team (who by their own right are big guys)

[PaladinFan]

Frost and Devezin are in the backfield for Mercer to start. Notable that it is not Riley/Riddle/Mitchell

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford is sleep walking against PC but still up 2 scores at the half. Nothing has stopped the offense except Wofford's own mistakes

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Wofford is sleep walking against PC but still up 2 scores at the half. Nothing has stopped the offense except Wofford's own mistakes

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Not to make too much of it, but if Wofford is looking at an at large bid, a closer-than-expected win over a bad team isn't a great look for the resume. Need to get it in gear.

[PaladinFan]

Paladins drive down and make it 7-0.

Mercer struggling to stop Furman's edge game.

[PaladinFan]

Mercer responds with a nice drive. 7-7

[kdinva]

VMI playing like last year's squad.......no offense, no tackling.......this performance worse than even the Toledo game........VMI is missing two of the top four WRs, but that is no excuse......I knew after VMI had trouble with Tusculum, they lost confidence. Not the same team mentally that gave Citadel, Mercer, WCU, ETSU, and UTC all they wanted....

[PaladinFan]

Lot of time left in this game, but Mercer doesn't appear to have a defensive player that can run with Devin Wynn. He's approaching 100 yards rushing in the first quarter.

[PaladinFan]

Paladins drive down again, score, but miss the point. 13-7.

[PaladinFan]

Wow. Devlin Hodges has thrown for 400+ but no touchdowns

[FUGameBreaker]

Samford gonna win

All attention turns to Macon now
Furman leads 20-7

[PaladinFan]

Let me go ahead and say, that if Furman loses the automatic bid to a team they are tied with and beat like a drum, I'm going to be annoyed.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Let me go ahead and say, that if Furman loses the automatic bid to a team they are tied with and beat like a drum, I'm going to be annoyed.

How is it decided if Furman beats Mercer?

[FUGameBreaker]

How is it decided if Furman beats Mercer?


Furman gets autobid with win and holding Mercer to 16 points or less



Furman leads 20-10 at halftime

[PaladinFan]

How is it decided if Furman beats Mercer?

Basically, if Mercer scores 17, Wofford is the auto bid regardless of the outcome.

[PaladinFan]

I think the concern for Furman here is to lose focus. The offense has done just about whatever they wanted all game, but you don't want the team to start focusing on a certain result instead of beating the team in front of them.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford with an easy win against PC. 45-21, but not really that close. We lost the turnover battle 3-1, cycled out starters for the last 20 minutes.

Really, the only stop PC got was at the end of the half and in garbage time.

Wofford is in, no questions asked. I'm rooting for 7 more Mercer points!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Well, obviously if you're Bobby Lamb you're trying to win the game because you are responsible for the Mercer program and not the SoCon, but if the game is in hand late and Mercer scores to get to 16, I would take a knee on the PAT if I were in his position.

[PaladinFan]

Disaster for Furman with a Mercer scoop and score. Wofford is the auto bid (though they were already in)

That may be the first time I've seen Harris Roberts miss a pitch all season.

[FUGameBreaker]

No worries, Furman still in great shape for At-Large bid, just got to beat Mercer to win SoCon championship xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

No worries, Furman still in great shape for At-Large bid, just got to beat Mercer to win SoCon championship xthumbsupx

Gotta beat a tough team.

[PaladinFan]

As good as Furman's offense has been, it seems like Mercer's had really good field position all day.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford wins back to back socon titles for the first time in school history. Whew!

Also total Samford move to beat the co-champs by double digits and somehow miss the playoffs

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Wofford wins back to back socon titles for the first time in school history. Whew!

Also total Samford move to beat the co-champs by double digits and somehow miss the playoffs

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalkbecause the co-champs are the 5th best Team in the SoCon

STILL the Co-Champs though. They earned it!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

because the co-champs are the 5th best Team in the SoCon

STILL the Co-Champs though. They earned it!

If they win today, then they've won 6 of the last 7. They've been playing good ball late season. It's a shame they're probably not going to make the playoffs.

[woffordgrad94]

ETSU, you #gotHatched!

[ETSUfan1]

Sucks but Mercer has 17. We should be in

[PaladinFan]

If they win today, then they've won 6 of the last 7. They've been playing good ball late season. It's a shame they're probably not going to make the playoffs.

A lot can happen. Everyone assumed Furman wasn't making it last year either. I think the committee regards the SoCon well.

[PaladinFan]

Looks like Bailey may be going to the showers. Looks like textbook targeting on a defensless player.

[PaladinFan]

Does Mercer not have anyone that walks with the player to the locker room? So weird to see a player leave the field and walk through the fans milling about.

[PaladinFan]

Good grief. Two missed extra points.

Furman has hit a half dozen or more field goals from beyond 50, but missed a bunch of extra points. Explain that one.

[woffordgrad94]

I think ETSU still gets in and Furman too if they win. 3 SoCon bids in kind of a down year for the league isn’t that terrible.

[PaladinFan]

Devin Wynn having a Louis Ivory sort of game. Might hit 200 yards rushing.

[PaladinFan]

Adrian Hope at least another 2 sacks plus a strip.

I'm not kidding when he may be SoCon defensive player of the year.

- - - Updated - - -

What's going to be most annoying is if Furman's defense holds Mercer to 10 points and the difference is a non-offensive score.

[FUGameBreaker]

ATKINS is money!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reign of Terrier]

Sucks but Mercer has 17. We should be inYou are in!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Bethune Cookman beats FAMU. That's a big result for bubble teams.

[FUGameBreaker]

Bethune Cookman beats FAMU. That's a big result for bubble teams.



Yep huge!

[PaladinFan]

Kaelan Riley going in.

The last time Furman faced a mid-game Qb change it did not go well.

[PaladinFan]

Devizin is going to be a handful. Mercer needs to build their offense around him.

[PaladinFan]

Gut check time for Furman. 1 quarter to a championship on the road against a tough team.

Just where they were last year.

[dewey]

Sounds like Furman locked up the SoCon title with point differential.

Congratulations Furman.

Assuming what I heard is right.

Dewey

[ElCid]

Sounds like Furman locked up the SoCon title with point differential.

Congratulations Furman.

Assuming what I heard is right.

Dewey

No, Wofford did.

[dewey]

No, Wofford did.

Thanks for the correction.

Dewey

[FUGameBreaker]

Gotta love Harris Roberts ball fake

[FUGameBreaker]

Furman wins 2018 SoCon Championship!!!!!!!!!!
Yessssssss!!!!!!!!


Congrats to Wofford and ETSU as well xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

Adrian Hope ends the game with another strip sack. That was at least 3.

I think that probably gives him at least 15 this season.

[PaladinFan]

Also, with the kid at ETSU, Devezin, Wynn, we may be starting to see a renaissance in this conference at feature running backs. Been a while since we've had that level of talent at that position around here.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, with the kid at ETSU, Devezin, Wynn, we may be starting to see a renaissance in this conference at feature running backs. Been a while since we've had that level of talent at that position around here.On top of that, Wofford probably hasn't been this deep at running back either.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

Adrian Hope ends the game with another strip sack. That was at least 3.

I think that probably gives him at least 15 this season.



Dude is insane!

[PaladinFan]

Nice gesture.

https://twitter.com/Aaquil_Annoor/status/1063982766436614145 (https://twitter.com/Aaquil_Annoor/status/1063982766436614145)

[gofurman]

Adrian Hope ends the game with another strip sack. That was at least 3.

I think that probably gives him at least 15 this season.

Yeah. Take a minute and think about it

Freshman. Backup ... Played one less game (hurricane) than others in FCS. Plays vs Woff and Citadel who won't throw much and still... finished top 3 in sacks in NATION. That's crazy

[gofurman]

I think SoCon record for career sacks is 37 or 40? Hope - please do stay healthy - had 15 in first year. He could killl the SoCon record

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, worth mentioning, but Wyoming is 5-6 and will likely beat New Mexico State and make a bowl game. That makes Wofford look a little better IMO

[gofurman]

Furman wins 2018 SoCon Championship!!!!!!!!!!
Yessssssss!!!!!!!!


Congrats to Wofford and ETSU as well xthumbsupx

Yes sCongrats to Furman, Wofford and ETSU.

[PaladinFan]

I talk about Hope on here a bunch, but he's gotten to the point of being one of the few premier pass rushers we've seen in the SoCon in decades. In one season he's almost half way to the SoCon career sack record.

What is going to be interesting to watch is him continuing to develop as a linebacker. He backs up the very good Chris Washington. Hope plays with the second rotation often in passing situations. I'm interested to see whether Furman continues to develop him as a true three down linebacker or keeps using him in the future as a pass rush specialist.

What is probably most surprising is that he's only like 6'1 210 pounds, which is not what you would expect from a dominating edge rusher. He's also starting to force turnovers. He caused the fumble that sealed the Citadel game and stripped Mercer twice.

[gofurman]

Gotta love Harris Roberts ball fake

Speaking of that I never have understood why some QBs are so weak w fakes. It's such a good help to sell a fake. Why are some QBs so lax with it?

[PaladinNation]

I talk about Hope on here a bunch, but he's gotten to the point of being one of the few premier pass rushers we've seen in the SoCon in decades. In one season he's almost half way to the SoCon career sack record.

What is going to be interesting to watch is him continuing to develop as a linebacker. He backs up the very good Chris Washington. Hope plays with the second rotation often in passing situations. I'm interested to see whether Furman continues to develop him as a true three down linebacker or keeps using him in the future as a pass rush specialist.

What is probably most surprising is that he's only like 6'1 210 pounds, which is not what you would expect from a dominating edge rusher. He's also starting to force turnovers. He caused the fumble that sealed the Citadel game and stripped Mercer twice.

It's going to be interesting to see the future of Furman linebackers - incoming recruits Josh Slay (OLB) and Jalen Miller (Spur) have speed and size — I hope with the incoming linebackers Hope can continue to play Bandit.

Same can be said for defensive end… Seabrook is just a sophomore and hopefully, Hanff will play next season. Both will IMO get challenged by Jack Barton.

[wcugrad95]

I wanted to throw out that Tyrie Adams became only the 10th player in FCS/I-AA history to throw for over 2000 and rush for over 1000 yards in a season. Nice stat-padding last play of the game - UNC turned the ball over on downs with under 10 seconds left. Adams needed 14 yards to get to 1000 and he rolled out to pass but wisely took off running to gain 18 yards. It also made him the only SoCon player to eclipse 1000 yards rushing this season. I don't care if anybody thinks that was selfish :)

He also set the single-season total offense record for Western at 3423 yards (2417 passing and 1006 rushing). It was not a good year for the Cats, but Adams deserves whatever recognition he can get. He'll be 2nd team All-Conference, but every game the other team knew they had to stop him and in most games they couldn't.

[ElCid]

I wanted to throw out that Tyrie Adams became only the 10th player in FCS/I-AA history to throw for over 2000 and rush for over 1000 yards in a season. Nice stat-padding last play of the game - UNC turned the ball over on downs with under 10 seconds left. Adams needed 14 yards to get to 1000 and he rolled out to pass but wisely took off running to gain 18 yards. It also made him the only SoCon player to eclipse 1000 yards rushing this season. I don't care if anybody thinks that was selfish :)

He also set the single-season total offense record for Western at 3423 yards (2417 passing and 1006 rushing). It was not a good year for the Cats, but Adams deserves whatever recognition he can get. He'll be 2nd team All-Conference, but every game the other team knew they had to stop him and in most games they couldn't.

That's pretty cool on the record.

[FUGameBreaker]

Speaking of that I never have understood why some QBs are so weak w fakes. It's such a good help to sell a fake. Why are some QBs so lax with it?


Good question, its obviously a huge asset to have in the toolbox xthumbsupx

[woffordgrad94]

I wanted to throw out that Tyrie Adams became only the 10th player in FCS/I-AA history to throw for over 2000 and rush for over 1000 yards in a season. Nice stat-padding last play of the game - UNC turned the ball over on downs with under 10 seconds left. Adams needed 14 yards to get to 1000 and he rolled out to pass but wisely took off running to gain 18 yards. It also made him the only SoCon player to eclipse 1000 yards rushing this season. I don't care if anybody thinks that was selfish :)

He also set the single-season total offense record for Western at 3423 yards (2417 passing and 1006 rushing). It was not a good year for the Cats, but Adams deserves whatever recognition he can get. He'll be 2nd team All-Conference, but every game the other team knew they had to stop him and in most games they couldn't.
He had every reason to be “selfish”, playing his last game for a team out of contention like WCU late in a game that was out of reach against an FBS opponent. Congratulations to the young man for all his accomplishments. He is indeed a special player and deserves all recognition coming his way.

[wcugrad95]

Clarification - that was Adam's last game this season, but he is a RS JR and still has a year left. FUBeAR's theories aside, I expect Adam's to duplicate or improve on his stats next year (he now has 2 of the 3 seasons a Catamount has gained 3000 total yards). For the Western-faithful, we expect him back and hope for some better defense from a unit that will now have a year of experience under their belts.

The stats are nice - wins are better. But the lack of wins certainly didn't come from Tyrie's play.

[woffordgrad94]

Clarification - that was Adam's last game this season, but he is a RS JR and still has a year left. FUBeAR's theories aside, I expect Adam's to duplicate or improve on his stats next year (he now has 2 of the 3 seasons a Catamount has gained 3000 total yards). For the Western-faithful, we expect him back and hope for some better defense from a unit that will now have a year of experience under their belts.

The stats are nice - wins are better. But the lack of wins certainly didn't come from Tyrie's play.
Well, doggone it! In spite of WCU’s record this season, his return is still bad news for the rest of the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

Good question, its obviously a huge asset to have in the toolbox xthumbsupx

Harris Roberts is really good at it. It takes showing the defense the same thing every time and doing your job every single time.

This is a similar play Furman scored a long touchdown pass on against VMI. Most of Mercer's defense bite hard on the play fake. Furman gets a man to man matchup with Jake Walker against a Safety, which Furman will take 9 times out of 10.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1063984504463941634

It also explains a bit why Furman keeps consistently running the ball up the middle, even though it rarely gains a lot of yards. Furmaoccasionallyly breaks runs in the middle, and defenses know that. By going back to that over and over, Furman forces a defense to stay honest inside, which opens up plays like this one. Roberts is also a big body, who hides the ball extremely well. Linebackers must have a really tough time picking up where the ball is.

[PaladinFan]

Hope leads the FCS in sacks.

As best I can tell, a SoCon player has never won the award. Only one defensive player has.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1064141420464939009

[PaladinNation]

anyone who thought Furman going to Macon wouldn't be a fight was sleepwalking.

Looking at bracket predictions if Furman gets in - not much is expected from Furman, also same goes for Wofford and ETSU.
I think Wofford and Furman will be a tough out, ETSU I'm not sure.

One new intriguing piece to Furman's offense has been the emergence of Jake Walker. Walker has been a key blocker, I've been waiting to see him get the opportunity to have the ball in his hands… in two weeks 145 receiving yards and four touchdowns.

another sneaky piece in the Furman offense is Ryan DeLuca… two touchdowns against Mercer. Walker and DeLuca end the regular season leading the DINS in touchdowns each has four.

[wcugrad95]

The funny thing about at least some of the bracket predictions I have seen have Furman playing in a game that turns to Kennessaw State. Of course the Paladins would have to win round 1, but they certainly know how to defend the triple option. So that would be a very intriguing second-round match up.

And another random thought - Furman may be getting into the playoffs because they DIDN'T play Colgate. I know many of you think that was a "W" but that is a pretty good football team, and that could have easily been an "L" (and I don't think a 5-loss FU team gets in even as SoCon tri-champs).

[SCPALADIN]

The funny thing about at least some of the bracket predictions I have seen have Furman playing in a game that turns to Kennessaw State. Of course the Paladins would have to win round 1, but they certainly know how to defend the triple option. So that would be a very intriguing second-round match up.

And another random thought - Furman may be getting into the playoffs because they DIDN'T play Colgate. I know many of you think that was a "W" but that is a pretty good football team, and that could have easily been an "L" (and I don't think a 5-loss FU team gets in even as SoCon tri-champs).

I think it would also be very interesting if the committee found a way to put the winner of a first round Furman game up against Colgate...potentially putting the whole discussion to rest ON the field.

[FUGameBreaker]

I think it would also be very interesting if the committee found a way to put the winner of a first round Furman game up against Colgate...potentially putting the whole discussion to rest ON the field.


Oh yeah xthumbsupx

[SU DOG]

Wofford wins back to back socon titles for the first time in school history. Whew!

Also total Samford move to beat the co-champs by double digits and somehow miss the playoffs

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


I disagreed with you on the Samford's playoffs record because of the facts I listed. But yes, our inconsistency this year(and some others) is not even debatable. I have no grounds for argument there.

A couple of things about yesterday. Hodges' record is something that Samford can be proud of, but so can the SoCon. I still believe he has a very good chance of receiving the Walter Payton Award. if not, however, he has accomplished something to be proud of for a lifetime. I want to mention also that I am really proud of some guys, especially on defense, that played yesterday in spite of being injured and way less than 100%. They would not be denied that last game. These would include Gooden, Pettway, Foster, and some others.

Hope we get several teams in, including any that should say "THANKS SAMFORD." After all, our kids could just as easily have hung it up.
Here's wishing our SoCon teams good luck on selections and Playoff games.

[Reign of Terrier]

Something to speak of in terms of the Socon's overall competitiveness:

Looking at the scores and not trying to be too detailed, I don't think the conference was ever more competitive. It's definitely more competitive than it has been even in the last 2 seasons.

If you liberally interpret one score games as "toss ups," and subsequently assume that a team could have one those games, more teams were in the margin of error for playoff consideration or even a conference title than any season prior.

In 2016, it was the 4 playoff teams, Mercer, and Furman (even though Furman had their own problems they were in the margin of error for a playoff spot.). So about 5 teams for the conference title, 6 for a playoff spot.

In 2017, it went way down. Chattanooga, VMI, ETSU, and the citadel weren't in any sort of consideration (some may protest here, but I'm assuming 3 score losses as likely disqualifying). So still 5 for the conference title, but no more than that.

This year, it's much different though. It's 7 teams. Ball bounces a little differently for Mercer, Samford, Chattanooga, and the citadel and they win a conference title. No joke. Heck, if you look to games Western Carolina had a two score lead in and add it to these margin of error games, and they were arguably in the margin of error for a playoff spot.

The socon is a lot tougher than most people think. There are fewer games decided by 3 scores or more (outside of games involving VMI) than any other conference.

Outside of homerism, part of the reason I'm bullish on Wofford is because all the games we won except one were decided by double digits. Wofford this year is a team that could lose in the first round or make it all the way to Frisco. Though we obviously laid an egg against Furman and Samford and any prognostication should factor that in, in spite of that Wofford strikes the most consistent balance on both sides.

ETSU and Furman are the most comparable. I think ETSU is a year away as they continue to mature into a program. Their shortcomings are combination of skill and development which I really don't think will be a factor next year.

Furman is almost there as well. Their defense is definitely gelling right now, but they still aren't quite yet there on pass defense.

Mercer is also much closer to there than people think. The only game they weren't competitive in was Wofford. Mercer has actually been in the margin of error each of the last 3 years.

Samford, the citadel, Chattanooga, and Western all have the potential to break into the top mold next year, but right now they have the most question marks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

I disagreed with you on the Samford's playoffs record because of the facts I listed. But yes, our inconsistency this year(and some others) is not even debatable. I have no grounds for argument there.
There’s one ‘ground’ for an argument for “inconsistent” in-SoCon performance this year - that ‘ground’ is that there’s about a fingernail’s width of difference in SoCon Teams 1-7, if that much.

The 3 Teams that are Co-Champions deserve to be Champions because they either were better or played better (or both) than their opponents did on 6 particular Saturdays. But, as examples, I don’t think there are many here who would vehemently argue that Chatt couldn’t beat ETSU, or CIT couldn’t beat Wofford, or Mercer couldn’t beat Furman on some different Saturday. Obviously, we know Samford was better or played better (or both) than Furman, Wofford, and ETSU on the 3 particular Saturdays that they played each of them AND we know that Chatt, CIT, and Mercer were better or played better (or both) than Samford on 3 different Saturdays.

To me...this extreme competitiveness is what makes SoCon Football so much fun!

Hoping all 3 Champs make the Playoffs and kick some serious OOC A$$ when they do.

The die has been cast...

https://twitter.com/NCAA_FCS/status/1064186899781292032?s=20

[Reign of Terrier]

I disagreed with you on the Samford's playoffs record because of the facts I listed. But yes, our inconsistency this year(and some others) is not even debatable. I have no grounds for argument there.

A couple of things about yesterday. Hodges' record is something that Samford can be proud of, but so can the SoCon. I still believe he has a very good chance of receiving the Walter Payton Award. if not, however, he has accomplished something to be proud of for a lifetime. I want to mention also that I am really proud of some guys, especially on defense, that played yesterday in spite of being injured and way less than 100%. They would not be denied that last game. These would include Gooden, Pettway, Foster, and some others.

Hope we get several teams in, including any that should say "THANKS SAMFORD." After all, our kids could just as easily have hung it up.
Here's wishing our SoCon teams good luck on selections and Playoff games.I really want Samford to be successful. They'll get there, somehow.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[wcugrad95]

A couple or three first round wins, followed by some good second-round showings (and maybe even 1 team getting to the quarters) would do wonders for the conference. When we all play at least 1 "money game" it makes scheduling more than 1 tough OOC game hard to do for some of the schools (i.e. WCU because we have to get a guaranteed 5th or 6th home game). Hopefully as a conference we can continue to prove our merit in the playoffs with some wins and looks like there are some decent OOC games on the horizon (again - WCU not so much, as we have NC State AND freakin' Alabama next year, but we do play a home-and-home with EKU in the future).

Long-winded post that I really meant to say I hope we get 3 in and to wish those teams good luck!

[PaladinFan]

The funny thing about at least some of the bracket predictions I have seen have Furman playing in a game that turns to Kennessaw State. Of course the Paladins would have to win round 1, but they certainly know how to defend the triple option. So that would be a very intriguing second-round match up.

And another random thought - Furman may be getting into the playoffs because they DIDN'T play Colgate. I know many of you think that was a "W" but that is a pretty good football team, and that could have easily been an "L" (and I don't think a 5-loss FU team gets in even as SoCon tri-champs).

I said this on our forum, but I wouldn't want to draw Furman in a postseason matchup.

The Paladin offense throws a bunch at you. The run out of dozens of formations, run option, throw it well, run it well, work play action off of everything, and shift in and out of formations presnap. Most of the SoCon teams have familiarity with what Furman does offensively and prepares for that over the course of the season. Last year in the playoffs, Furman saw two teams it had already played.

I can imagine it won't be easy for a defensive coordinator to pop in Furman's tape on a Sunday afternoon and figure out how to defend this offense. The Furman attack is a unique blend of a lot of different offensive looks.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Something to speak of in terms of the Socon's overall competitiveness:

Looking at the scores and not trying to be too detailed, I don't think the conference was ever more competitive. It's definitely more competitive than it has been even in the last 2 seasons.

If you liberally interpret one score games as "toss ups," and subsequently assume that a team could have one those games, more teams were in the margin of error for playoff consideration or even a conference title than any season prior.

In 2016, it was the 4 playoff teams, Mercer, and Furman (even though Furman had their own problems they were in the margin of error for a playoff spot.). So about 5 teams for the conference title, 6 for a playoff spot.

In 2017, it went way down. Chattanooga, VMI, ETSU, and the citadel weren't in any sort of consideration (some may protest here, but I'm assuming 3 score losses as likely disqualifying). So still 5 for the conference title, but no more than that.

This year, it's much different though. It's 7 teams. Ball bounces a little differently for Mercer, Samford, Chattanooga, and the citadel and they win a conference title. No joke. Heck, if you look to games Western Carolina had a two score lead in and add it to these margin of error games, and they were arguably in the margin of error for a playoff spot.

The socon is a lot tougher than most people think. There are fewer games decided by 3 scores or more (outside of games involving VMI) than any other conference.

Outside of homerism, part of the reason I'm bullish on Wofford is because all the games we won except one were decided by double digits. Wofford this year is a team that could lose in the first round or make it all the way to Frisco. Though we obviously laid an egg against Furman and Samford and any prognostication should factor that in, in spite of that Wofford strikes the most consistent balance on both sides.

ETSU and Furman are the most comparable. I think ETSU is a year away as they continue to mature into a program. Their shortcomings are combination of skill and development which I really don't think will be a factor next year.

Furman is almost there as well. Their defense is definitely gelling right now, but they still aren't quite yet there on pass defense.

Mercer is also much closer to there than people think. The only game they weren't competitive in was Wofford. Mercer has actually been in the margin of error each of the last 3 years.

Samford, the citadel, Chattanooga, and Western all have the potential to break into the top mold next year, but right now they have the most question marks

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I would like to respond with respect to ETSU. We began the program with the hire of Carl Torbush, someone who has not been a head coach in many years and when he was the head coach (LA Tech and UNC), his teams did not set the world on fire. The first season back was a mess, the second season brought me some hope and the third season ended with us losing the WTF Bowl vs Chattanooga. Torbush retires less than a month later and we started looking for a head coach.

Randy Sanders popped up on our radar not so long thereafter and we jumped on him. Based on his pedigree and experience alone, I really believed ETSU was going to be much improved this season. On an earlier thread I started several months ago, I believed ETSU was going to win seven games this season (they won eight). I believed ETSU had an outside chance of getting into the playoffs (relative to other at-large aspirants, I believe the odds are in our favor).

I may be heartbroken over yesterday's loss but I am grateful for the work Sanders put into this team to turn ETSU into what they are today. I believe ETSU will be one of those teams you really don't want to play as long as Sanders is our head coach.

In closing, congratulations to Samford and to Devlin Hodges for their effort yesterday. I wish Mr. Hodges nothing but the best.

[ETSUfan1]

Crazy that the socon got their fifth best team in. All joking aside, I thought Furman deserved a shot. Hard to believe we made it in before Mercer. I hope we give it our all in the playoffs.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Crazy that the socon got their fifth best team in. All joking aside, I thought Furman deserved a shot. Hard to believe we made it in before Mercer. I hope we give it our all in the playoffs.

I believe this team will make things happen in the playoffs. The good news is we won't see NDSU until the Finals (if we're blessed to make it that far).