The Great SoCon, OVC, SLC Pillow Fight of 2019

[kalm]

Brought to you courtesy of the Furman thread I was just reading. xlolx

The SLC and OVC have taken so much flack over the years for conference strength or lack there of, I figured it was only fair to include the SoCon as they too have a serious lack of quality wins other than beating each other.

As JSUSoutherner pointed out, here are the SoCon OOC wins this year:

UTM
Gardner-Webb
Gardner-Webb
Jacksonville
Tennessee Tech
Gardner-Webb

The SLC at least has Nicholl's win over Kansas. McNeese's win @ 2-7 UNC might be better than any the SoCon has.

At what point should you stop using the parity, cannibalize, beats each other up in conference arguments to justify at-larges?

I'll see your 6-4 Furman or 8-3 JSU and raise you a 9-2 McNeese that got snubbed last year.

Make the argument that any of these three conferences truly deserve more than the AQ this season.

(And yes, I recognize we have some games left)

[Reign of Terrier]

Because unlike the OVC and Southland, Socon at large teams actually win games with a level of frequency.

If you're going to frame this as simplistically as "bad OOC=no soup for you" then the game is over and the Socon loses. I concede that. But if you look at overall playoff success, it's different.

The OVC, with the exception of JSU, is, was, and will be for the forseeable future a bottom rung conference in terms of playoff participation. I'm pretty sure the only non-JSU OVC team to beat a non-OVC team in the playoffs in the last ~20 years was Tennessee State, and that was against Butler.

The Southland is more comparable to the Socon, but outside of their top 2, UCA and SHSU, they only have 1 playoff win against non-Southland teams since 2011 (and none since 2015). I'm open to the possibility that the Southland has the new kids on the block, in fact I actually think teams like Houston Baptist, Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, ETSU, Campbell, Monmouth, Kennesaw, and Mercer (maybe) who are new to full FCS or start up programs are finding their swagger. Houston Baptist, ACU, and Incarnate Word could be like ETSU and much better than we think!

But for me, the conference blue bloods of the Southland don't perform in the playoffs like the bluebloods in the Socon.

The socon has 4 teams with a playoff win since 2015 or 2013 (I don't go back farther because GSU and App were in the conference before then), each against non-Socon teams. Admittedly, many of those wins were against the Big South, but that charleston southern team took NDSU to OT.

So, in sum, I may be framing this in terms of playoff wins because it makes the Socon look good. Having said that, the SLC and the Socon have more in common than the OVC. I think both the Southland and Southern Conference has teams that have been in start up mode and the perception of the conference is negative because of those teams making strides. I think that's both fair and unfair. It's fair because when you see top tier teams struggling with teams that weren't good in years prior, you can assume they just aren't as good. It's also not fair, because those teams are finally at full D1 strength and talent is at a parity at this level. Equal talent + experience + quality coaching=these teams are getting better.

But, at the end of the day, I think the Socon is better than the Southland because only one of the new bloods has disrupted the natural order of things, and even then, you could argue that every team, with the exception of Furman, is on par with what they were last year (and the only reason they aren't is because Furman lost to ETSU and didn't play Colgate). But simply, there's more evidence that the Southland is down (UCA and SHSU not performing well and Nicholls/McNeese not having as good records) than the Socon is.

Looking forward to a dumpster fire discussion!

[Professor Chaos]

Make the argument that any of these three conferences truly deserve more than the AQ this season.
Because JSU's AD Greg Seitz is on the selection committee as he has been for the last 2 years when they've been grossly over-seeded.

[sudog03]

Make the argument that any of these three conferences truly deserve more than the AQ this season.

(And yes, I recognize we have some games left)

Because the unbiased computer ratings say so. And at least in years past, that is something the committee has relied very heavily on. Right now the computers have those 3 leagues in this order:

SoCon
Southland
OVC

[Professor Chaos]

Because the unbiased computer ratings say so. And at least in years past, that is something the committee has relied very heavily on.
Where are you getting the notion that they've relied heavily on computer ratings? The selection committee chair last year said point blank that they use no external ranking systems or polls other than the NCAA's SRS which is only used to quantify strength of schedule/wins.

The SRS isn't released to the public until after the bracket is revealed (it would be nice if they had the "transparency" they claim to strive for to release it before then though wouldn't it?).

[JSUSoutherner]

The bubble sucks this year. 8-3 JSU is in.

See: Jax State Football 2013

[Reign of Terrier]

I think it's worth mentioning that the Southeast bracket, whatever that will entail will be very competitive this year. It could include teams such as:

Kennesaw State
Southeast Missouri
Jacksonville State
Wofford
Furman
Samford
ETSU (maybe? low likelihood IMO)
Elon
North Carolina A&T
and a Southland team

I feel like you have to be a homer to say that one teams sticks out among the above. Everyone could beat everyone. Southeastern FCS teams are good this year, yet at the same time they have a noticeable flaw.

[Professor Chaos]

The bubble sucks this year. 8-3 JSU is in.
I thought so too even after the games last Saturday but when you sit down and write it out it's actually not that weak. NC A&T swiping a bid won't help but unless there's quite a bit of pandemonium these last two weeks there's going to be a 7-4 CAA/MVFC/Big Sky team or two or an 8-3 SLC/SOCON/OVC team or two left out.

[JSUSoutherner]

I thought so too even after the games last Saturday but when you sit down and write it out it's actually not that weak. NC A&T swiping a bid won't help but unless there's quite a bit of pandemonium these last two weeks there's going to be a 7-4 CAA/MVFC/Big Sky team or two or an 8-3 SLC/SOCON/OVC team or two left out.
"Unless there's quite a bit of pandemonium”

You been paying attention this this season, right?

I actually made this quip yesterday with Rev and Clenz that given the crazy nature of this season I think JSU should be considered heavy favorites vs. KSU. xlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

There's a maximum of like 10 teams that will finish 8-3 for at-large in the "power" conferences, with many of them likely not finishing that high.

I don't see JSU or Wofford getting left out at 8-3. The playoff committee is not going to put 2 7-4 CAA/MVFC teams over 8-3 JSU/Wofford (especially not Wofford with a top 25 win). They aren't going to make it the MVFC/CAA open.

[sudog03]

the NCAA's SRS which is only used to quantify strength of schedule/wins.

Isn't that basically what every computer rating system strives to do?

[ElCid]

Hey, we still have two OOC to play, and so do a few SOCON teams. It ain't over yet. Once we knock off Alafrickenbama, we will take care of CSU for good measure, albeit after the field is named. LOL.

[Thumper 76]

This thread better not disappoint
https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlTlrCZizMJeQgM/giphy.gif


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[SU DOG]

Maybe not in choosing the final bracketology, but the individual committee members DO look at polls through the season, and yes I do happen to personally know one member(NOT associated with Samford) of this group. Having said that, kalm has a point that I can't argue with about OOC SoCon wins. One reason for the lack of wins is lack of scheduling. For whatever reason, this seems to be a problem. Geography wise we are surrounded by those very other conferences that you include(OVC, Southland, and Big South). The one exception is the proximity of some CAA teams that could possibly be included. I also wish my school would venture into some of these possibilities. We do, however, have wins over UCA(2) and Kennesaw(1). We also open up with Youngstown State next season.

[Professor Chaos]

There's a maximum of like 10 teams that will finish 8-3 for at-large in the "power" conferences, with many of them likely not finishing that high.

I don't see JSU or Wofford getting left out at 8-3. The playoff committee is not going to put 2 7-4 CAA/MVFC teams over 8-3 JSU/Wofford (especially not Wofford with a top 25 win). They aren't going to make it the MVFC/CAA open.
The CAA and MVFC have gotten 9 teams into the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 year. The CAA is as deep as it's ever been this year and, while the MVFC is down a bit, I think you probably still can count on 9 again (which would be half the at-large bids) from those two conferences and they'll probably be a 4 loss bubble team or two not included in those 9. The Big Sky seems likely to take 2 if not 3 of those remaining 7 at-large spots. If A&T doesn't backdoor into the Celebration Bowl (or lose one of their last 2) that's another spot gone. You're running out of at large bids in a hurry by that point with only 3 or 4 left.

I do think Wofford will be and should be in at 8-3. I also think Jacksonville St will be, but not necessarily should be, in at 8-3. So now you're down to 1 or 2 spots and you've probably got at least two 4 loss teams from the Big Sky/CAA/MVFC battling with the rest of the bubble teams from the SOCON and SLC (could have Monmouth and UND in that discussion as well). I think it's going to be a pretty competitive bubble but we'll see. JSUSoutherner might be right and upsets on the bubble these last 2 weeks will allow it to take care of itself.

[WestCoastAggie]

I think it's worth mentioning that the Southeast bracket, whatever that will entail will be very competitive this year. It could include teams such as:

Kennesaw State
Southeast Missouri
Jacksonville State
Wofford
Furman
Samford
ETSU (maybe? low likelihood IMO)
Elon
North Carolina A&T
and a Southland team

I feel like you have to be a homer to say that one teams sticks out among the above. Everyone could beat everyone. Southeastern FCS teams are good this year, yet at the same time they have a noticeable flaw.

Who had the strongest OOC out of this group and who has the best OOC wins out of this group?

Hmm...

[WestCoastAggie]

Honestly, it really seems There’s a logjam in the SE quadrant. So much parity in the South, it’s silly.

[Professor Chaos]

Isn't that basically what every computer rating system strives to do?
I'd say every computer rating system strives to rank teams accurately which is what you'd need to accomplish in order to quantify SOS. But that doesn't change the fact there isn't a single poll or computer rating system that's available to the public right that is a direct tool used by the selection committee. Even the SRS doesn't mirror their seeds and at-large selections very well at all (in fact in the past the human polls have done that better than the SRS at projecting that) so it seems pretty reasonable to me that they're not blowing smoke when they say they only use it to quantify SOS.

[kalm]

Who had the strongest OOC out of this group and who has the best OOC wins out of this group?

Hmm...

There’s a reason this is limited to a 3-way pillow fight.

[Reign of Terrier]

The CAA and MVFC have gotten 9 teams into the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 year. The CAA is as deep as it's ever been this year and, while the MVFC is down a bit, I think you probably still can count on 9 again (which would be half the at-large bids) from those two conferences and they'll probably be a 4 loss bubble team or two not included in those 9. The Big Sky seems likely to take 2 if not 3 of those remaining 7 at-large spots. If A&T doesn't backdoor into the Celebration Bowl (or lose one of their last 2) that's another spot gone. You're running out of at large bids in a hurry by that point with only 3 or 4 left.

I do think Wofford will be and should be in at 8-3. I also think Jacksonville St will be, but not necessarily should be, in at 8-3. So now you're down to 1 or 2 spots and you've probably got at least two 4 loss teams from the Big Sky/CAA/MVFC battling with the rest of the bubble teams from the SOCON and SLC (could have Monmouth and UND in that discussion as well). I think it's going to be a pretty competitive bubble but we'll see. JSUSoutherner might be right and upsets on the bubble these last 2 weeks will allow it to take care of itself.

Part of the reason I'm avoiding speculation right now is that there are sooooooo many teams sitting at 3 losses in the CAA. This is the worst time of the year to speculate because there are just enough teams with a chance that it's impossible to make heads or tails of it. Next week will be a lot better.

[semobison]

There's a maximum of like 10 teams that will finish 8-3 for at-large in the "power" conferences, with many of them likely not finishing that high.

I don't see JSU or Wofford getting left out at 8-3. The playoff committee is not going to put 2 7-4 CAA/MVFC teams over 8-3 JSU/Wofford (especially not Wofford with a top 25 win). They aren't going to make it the MVFC/CAA open.

If UNI and WIU win out they will both be 7-4 and most likely will be in. But... the way this season has been going it wouldn't surprise me if either would drop a game down the stretch. Bubble teams from other conferences should be hoping that would be the case. Both ISU teams also have a chance to get to 7-4 but both would have only 6 DI wins.
If I was a betting man I would put money on the Valley not getting more than 3 teams in the playoffs. It's been that kind of year, lots of teams stuck in the middle.

[Reign of Terrier]

Let me rephrase my original point:

If the second place CAA/MVFC team is 7-4, they will get in over an 8-3 Southland/Southern/JSU. But not the 4th place CAA/MVFC team. That's not to say that there won't be multiple teams from the CAA/MVFC at 7-4 getting in, but that you will not see more than 1-2 and not the 8-3 teams.

[JSUSoutherner]

Here's another thing to consider:

The playoff committee isn't going to sit there like many CAA/MVFC fans and think "how many CAA and MVFC teams can we stuff into the bracket before we even have to look at those plebs!?”

[Reign of Terrier]

Here's another thing to consider:

The playoff committee isn't going to sit there like many CAA/MVFC fans and think "how many CAA and MVFC teams can we stuff into the bracket before we even have to look at those plebs!?”

Exactly. Leaving McNeese last year at 9-2 was an outlier, especially since they didn't have a good win, but usually you'll see the decent conferences get the benefit of the doubt.

[Professor Chaos]

Here's another thing to consider:

The playoff committee isn't going to sit there like many CAA/MVFC fans and think "how many CAA and MVFC teams can we stuff into the bracket before we even have to look at those plebs!?”


Exactly. Leaving McNeese last year at 9-2 was an outlier, especially since they didn't have a good win, but usually you'll see the decent conferences get the benefit of the doubt.
They haven't don't that in previous years either when the CAA and MVFC made up half the at-large field. Teams from those two conferences just generally have the highest SOS so they get more leeway in terms of W/L record and therefore are most likely to get a good number of at-large selections. This year is no different in that regard.


If UNI and WIU win out they will both be 7-4 and most likely will be in. But... the way this season has been going it wouldn't surprise me if either would drop a game down the stretch. Bubble teams from other conferences should be hoping that would be the case. Both ISU teams also have a chance to get to 7-4 but both would have only 6 DI wins.
If I was a betting man I would put money on the Valley not getting more than 3 teams in the playoffs. It's been that kind of year, lots of teams stuck in the middle.
Yep, it's possible the MVFC only gets 2 bids if the conference goes nuclear on itself in the last 2 weeks.

[FUGameBreaker]

Kinda funny to see a thread started by an EWU fan about OOC wins who's teams only OOC win this year was lower division Central Washington, credibility gone xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

Part of the reason I'm avoiding speculation right now is that there are sooooooo many teams sitting at 3 losses in the CAA. This is the worst time of the year to speculate because there are just enough teams with a chance that it's impossible to make heads or tails of it. Next week will be a lot better.


Should be a crazy weekend ahead, as pointed out in another thread 23 of the top 30 teams in the AGS poll play on the road this weekend

[FUBeAR]

This thread brought to you courtesy of the Big Lie Conference’s Playoff DADDY; the Non-Scholarship Pioneer Football League.

[PaladinFan]

This thread brought to you courtesy of the Big Lie Conference’s Playoff DADDY; the Non-Scholarship Pioneer Football League.

Count me as one who wants to go to seeding everyone and letting it play out.

[ElCid]

Count me as one who wants to go to seeding everyone and letting it play out.


Nope. I think that is a stupid idea. Actually, if I were king of the world, everyone would get their name put in a hat and matchups would be randomly picked. If a team is truly the champion they have to be able to beat everyone, so does it matter, really? I know most would hate that, but I like the random nature of it. But I hate regionalization more. The top 8 can be designated still, but the rest of the bracket should be random.

[katss07]

The Southland is better than the SoCon and is now the fourth best FCS Conference that participates in the playoffs. The conference is becoming deeper with powers like SHSU and McNeese remaining consistent and UCA and Nicholls rising. UIW, ACU and Lamar are gaining traction and one of them will be in the playoffs soon.

Stop saying that the SLC doesn’t win playoff games. There has been an SLC team in the semis more than 3/4ths of this decade. Sure it’s mostly SHSU but to be the best you gotta beat the best and teams are catching up and playing good. When was the last time a SoCon team was in the semis? Furman? Wofford? App St? I can’t recall. Oh, the OVC sucks.

[Professor Chaos]

The Southland is better than the SoCon and is now the fourth best FCS Conference that participates in the playoffs. The conference is becoming deeper with powers like SHSU and McNeese remaining consistent and UCA and Nicholls rising. UIW, ACU and Lamar are gaining traction and one of them will be in the playoffs soon.

Stop saying that the SLC doesn’t win playoff games. There has been an SLC team in the semis more than 3/4ths of this decade. Sure it’s mostly SHSU but to be the best you gotta beat the best and teams are catching up and playing good. When was the last time a SoCon team was in the semis? Furman? Wofford? App St? I can’t recall. Oh, the OVC sucks.
The problem is it's tough to prove that within a particular season as part of a playoff debate because with that damn 9 game conference schedule the SLC is so insular. Leaving only 2 non-conference games isn't enough when every team but SHSU plays an FBS team (some of them 2 FBS teams) and when a bunch of teams play a sub-D1 team for a cheap home game.

[Thumper 76]

The problem is it's tough to prove that within a particular season as part of a playoff debate because with that damn 9 game conference schedule the SLC is so insular. Leaving only 2 conference games isn't enough when every team but SHSU plays an FBS team (some of them 2 FBS teams) and when a bunch of teams play a sub-D1 team for a cheap home game.

This is true. It’s probably going to take a couple years of the Southland being good before it gets recognized because their schedule is so damn insular. Probably take the teams that make the playoffs all going on a little bit of a run.


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[FUGameBreaker]

The Southland is better than the SoCon and is now the fourth best FCS Conference that participates in the playoffs. The conference is becoming deeper with powers like SHSU and McNeese remaining consistent and UCA and Nicholls rising. UIW, ACU and Lamar are gaining traction and one of them will be in the playoffs soon.

Stop saying that the SLC doesn’t win playoff games. There has been an SLC team in the semis more than 3/4ths of this decade. Sure it’s mostly SHSU but to be the best you gotta beat the best and teams are catching up and playing good. When was the last time a SoCon team was in the semis? Furman? Wofford? App St? I can’t recall. Oh, the OVC sucks.



What is the best playoff showing/showings from the Southland in say the past 10 years outside of SHSU?

[PaladinFan]

The Southland is better than the SoCon and is now the fourth best FCS Conference that participates in the playoffs. The conference is becoming deeper with powers like SHSU and McNeese remaining consistent and UCA and Nicholls rising. UIW, ACU and Lamar are gaining traction and one of them will be in the playoffs soon.

Stop saying that the SLC doesn’t win playoff games. There has been an SLC team in the semis more than 3/4ths of this decade. Sure it’s mostly SHSU but to be the best you gotta beat the best and teams are catching up and playing good. When was the last time a SoCon team was in the semis? Furman? Wofford? App St? I can’t recall. Oh, the OVC sucks.

Oh stop it.

SHSU is the only SLC team that has advanced to the quarters the last four years. The SoCon has had two different teams (UTC and Wofford). I have a hard time even finding the last time a SLC team not named SHSU made the quarters.

If we are using arbitrary dates, I presume you aren't interested in me citing Georgia Southern's and App's appearances in the semis during "this decade."

Look, the SoCon took a big hit losing two of its big programs in one year. The fact that we are even having this conversation is a testament to the strength of the conference. We all knew it would take a few years for the conference to recover losing App and GSU. There really isn't a comparable equivalent to that anywhere in the country. Some conferences lose a team here or there, but to have your two biggest programs leave in the same season is pretty unprecedented.

[FUGameBreaker]

Oh stop it.

SHSU is the only SLC team that has advanced to the quarters the last four years. The SoCon has had two different teams (UTC and Wofford). I have a hard time even finding the last time a SLC team not named SHSU made the quarters.

If we are using arbitrary dates, I presume you aren't interested in me citing Georgia Southern's and App's appearances in the semis during "this decade."

Look, the SoCon took a big hit losing two of its big programs in one year. The fact that we are even having this conversation is a testament to the strength of the conference. We all knew it would take a few years for the conference to recover losing App and GSU.



Indeed, but the SoCon will be back, either by adding a bigger school or two (KSU ect.) or by the emergence of a former power (Furman) xsmiley_wix

[katss07]

Southeastern Louisiana had a nice showing in 2013, but not the point. Outside of Samford right now the SLC’s top two teams would beat anyone in these conferences. Nicholls and McNeese would beat Wofford, ETSU, Chatty, SEMO St, JSU, ect. Not a knock on any of those teams, Nicholls and McNeese are just better.

The future is bright in the SLC. SHSU and UCA should be better next year. McNeese will stay about the same, Nicholls will be good. UIW and ACU will continue to improve and impress. This will be a 3 to 4 bid league next season. We’re set up to be better the Other Valley and SuckCon for years to come.

[FUBeAR]

Southeastern Louisiana had a nice showing in 2013, but not the point. Outside of Samford right now the SLC’s top two teams would beat anyone in these conferences. Nicholls and McNeese would beat Wofford, ETSU, Chatty, SEMO St, JSU, ect. Not a knock on any of those teams, Nicholls and McNeese are just better.

The future is bright in the SLC. SHSU and UCA should be better next year. McNeese will stay about the same, Nicholls will be good. UIW and ACU will continue to improve and impress. This will be a 3 to 4 bid league next season. We’re set up to be better the Other Valley and SuckCon for years to come.Live Look-in @ cantsssssss007 as he uses talk-to-text to make his posts...

http://rs1006.pbsrc.com/albums/af183/shawbutte/asstalk.gif~c200

[ElCid]

Southeastern Louisiana had a nice showing in 2013, but not the point. Outside of Samford right now the SLC’s top two teams would beat anyone in these conferences. Nicholls and McNeese would beat Wofford, ETSU, Chatty, SEMO St, JSU, ect. Not a knock on any of those teams, Nicholls and McNeese are just better.

The future is bright in the SLC. SHSU and UCA should be better next year. McNeese will stay about the same, Nicholls will be good. UIW and ACU will continue to improve and impress. This will be a 3 to 4 bid league next season. We’re set up to be better the Other Valley and SuckCon for years to come.

Maybe Nicholls, but McNeese. Not even close. We play actual defense in the SOCON and McNeese doesn't know where the end zone is even located this year. let alone get there. Try again.

[FUGameBreaker]

Southeastern Louisiana had a nice showing in 2013, but not the point. Outside of Samford right now the SLC’s top two teams would beat anyone in these conferences. Nicholls and McNeese would beat Wofford, ETSU, Chatty, SEMO St, JSU, ect. Not a knock on any of those teams, Nicholls and McNeese are just better.

The future is bright in the SLC. SHSU and UCA should be better next year. McNeese will stay about the same, Nicholls will be good. UIW and ACU will continue to improve and impress. This will be a 3 to 4 bid league next season. We’re set up to be better the Other Valley and SuckCon for years to come.



Dude SE LA was 0-1 in the playoffs outside of Southland teams in 2013, next

[FUGameBreaker]

Also, why the hell does this thread say 2019 lol, imbecile

[Reign of Terrier]

Southeastern Louisiana had a nice showing in 2013, but not the point. Outside of Samford right now the SLC’s top two teams would beat anyone in these conferences. Nicholls and McNeese would beat Wofford, ETSU, Chatty, SEMO St, JSU, ect. Not a knock on any of those teams, Nicholls and McNeese are just better.

The future is bright in the SLC. SHSU and UCA should be better next year. McNeese will stay about the same, Nicholls will be good. UIW and ACU will continue to improve and impress. This will be a 3 to 4 bid league next season. We’re set up to be better the Other Valley and SuckCon for years to come.Everyone's favorite unsubstantiated throw away line is how 7-4 team x in conference y could beat anyone in the Socon.

I'm pretty sure Nicholls has never won a playoff game. McNeese's offense is an abortion on stilts.

I will take Wofford, Furman, Samford, ETSU and even Chattanooga against those teams.

Bottom line: we bitch and moan about Furman, but the socon was very much a canceled game away from a 4 bid league. I concede that's a big if, but if you concede the counterfactual, socon is a 4 bid league team *this year,* for the second time in 3 years.

Heck if that happened Chattanooga would be on the bubble.

2/3 of the socon will have made the playoffs in a 4 year span. Of the remaining 3, VMI will probably never make it. Western was 1 win away last year. Mercer could surprise people like ETSU next year.

There is proven depth in the socon that extends to OOC wins, albeit not this year but in years past and in the playoffs. Southland could be on it's trail, but outside of SHSU, there's not enough evidence to support your conclusion (yet).


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[PaladinFan]

Just today I realized that the Southland plays 9 conference games.

[kalm]

Also, why the hell does this thread say 2019 lol, imbecile

You missed the parody vs. parity mistake I made in the OP.

Directional school alumnus. I'm at least semi-literate but that's about it. xlolx

[kalm]

Kinda funny to see a thread started by an EWU fan about OOC wins who's teams only OOC win this year was lower division Central Washington, credibility gone xthumbsupx

This thread isn't about EWU and feel free to start one as Eastern desperately needs a quality win against Davis and for MSU to win out to help with their resume. But since we know you're real smart, how many non-conference games did EWU play this year?

(Hint...they're other non-conference win was still better than anything from the SoCon. Hell, CWU might be as well xnodx)

[FUGameBreaker]

You missed the parody vs. parity mistake I made in the OP.

Directional school alumnus. I'm at least semi-literate but that's about it. xlolx


Got it xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

This thread isn't about EWU and feel free to start one as Eastern desperately needs a quality win against Davis and for MSU to win out to help with their resume. But since we know you're real smart, how many non-conference games did EWU play this year?

(Hint...they're other non-conference win was still better than anything from the SoCon. Hell, CWU might be as well xnodx)


Obviously I looked at your schedule and saw 2 OOC games, or do you think I am psychic lol

And yeah CWU is ranked in DII, good for them xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

Honestly nobody is going to really know anything about each team/league outside of NDSU until the playoffs get here, then we will learn something, let's just be thankful FCS has a good playoff system and is more than just 4 teams

[kalm]

Obviously I looked at your schedule and saw 2 OOC games, or do you think I am psychic lol

And yeah CWU is ranked in DII, good for them xthumbsupx

I look at any Big Sky schedule and always see 3 OOC games. It's not the SLC where they only play two so you automatically recognize the non-con games between conference foes as they are at the beginning of the season. But it's ok, that's an understandable mistake to make...except when you're attempting to talk smack.

[FUGameBreaker]

Here is a great FACT - which FCS conference plays the toughest FBS schedule every single year - answer: SoCon xthumbsupx That reduces our chances of OOC wins, same can be said for Hurricane's this year xsmiley_wix

[FUGameBreaker]

I look at any Big Sky schedule and always see 3 OOC games. It's not the SLC where they only play two so you automatically recognize the non-con games between conference foes as they are at the beginning of the season. But it's ok, that's an understandable mistake to make...except when you're attempting to talk smack.


Please tell me 3 teams EWU plays this year against teams that are not in your conference?

[Reign of Terrier]

Here is a great FACT - which FCS conference plays the toughest FBS schedule every single year - answer: SoCon xthumbsupx That reduces our chances of OOC wins, same can be said for Hurricane's this year xsmiley_wixGod damnit can we not right now?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

God damnit can we not right now?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk



The hurricane thing is a freaking joke dude chill xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

Please tell me 3 teams EWU plays this year against teams that are not in your conference?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtxbIkfDDO4

TURN BACK FUGB!

Big Lie In-Conf. & OOC scheduling is a rabbit hole you don’t want to go down unless you have a PhD in Chinese Arithmetic & access to unlimited time on an NSA SuperComputer!

RUN AWAY!

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm talking about the FBS OOC. It has substance but is nevertheless dumb

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtxbIkfDDO4

TURN BACK FUGB!

Big Lie In-Conf. & OOC scheduling is a rabbit hole you don’t want to go down unless you have a PhD in Chinese Arithmetic & access to unlimited time on an NSA SuperComputer!

RUN AWAY!



Oh I hear ya, and I know good and well about their stupid scheduling thing, its funny that an EWU fan would actually consider that one of their OOC wins though lol

[WestCoastAggie]

The OOC FBS game references are rather interesting. 🤔

[kalm]

Please tell me 3 teams EWU plays this year against teams that are not in your conference?

Or you can just admit you were mistaken with your initial statement instead of doubling down as we both know NAU was considered OOC (your term) this year. Would the committee pair the two in the first round if they both made the playoffs and hadn't played? Is EWU's conference record according to the Big Sky 5-1 or 6-1 right now?

Regardless, a win over a 3-6 Big Sky team is still WAY better than any SoCon OOC. It was also on the road and back when they at least still had Butler, Cookus for a quarter and Bridges-Gadd the rest of the way. Now that I think of it, that 3-6 Big Sky team with a dominant win over an FBS plus a win against a top 5 FCS, has two better victories than any SoCon wins, in-conference or out.

LOL

[FUGameBreaker]

I'm talking about the FBS OOC. It has substance but is nevertheless dumb

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Not dumb xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

Or you can just admit you were mistaken with your initial statement instead of doubling down as we both know NAU was considered OOC (your term) this year. Would the committee pair the two in the first round if they both made the playoffs and hadn't played? Is EWU's conference record according to the Big Sky 5-1 or 6-1 right now?

Regardless, a win over a 3-6 Big Sky team is still WAY better than any SoCon OOC. It was also on the road and back when they at least still had Butler, Cookus for a quarter and Bridges-Gadd the rest of the way. Now that I think of it, that 3-6 Big Sky team with a dominant win over an FBS plus a win against a top 5 FCS, has two better victories than any SoCon wins, in-conference or out.

LOL



The fact you would consider that an OOC win is an absolute catastrophe to college football as we know it xnodx

[FUGameBreaker]

So I am still waiting, name 3 teams you played that are not in the Big Sky? lol

[FUGameBreaker]

So we know the SoCon plays the toughest FBS schedule every year. Which conference plays the 2nd toughest FBS schedule, the MVFC maybe?

[kalm]

Here is a great FACT - which FCS conference plays the toughest FBS schedule every single year - answer: SoCon xthumbsupx That reduces our chances of OOC wins, same can be said for Hurricane's this year xsmiley_wix

Hmmm...even that is debateable year in and year out. The SEC matchups certainly give you and advantage but it's probably closer than you think as typically 3 or 4 BSC teams seem to play two FBS game each year (it's tough to schedule out west and travel costs are high). Off the top of my head this year, BSC teams will have played Top 10 Wazzu, #23 8-1 Fresno State, Oregon, Utah, Cal, Florida, Arizona, Stanford.

You know what increases your chances of conference wins? Games against the MEAC and Big South while we're playing 8 games against the MVFC and then several more OOC xlolx against Big Sky teams.

In the end, the OOC SoS isn't even close.

[FUGameBreaker]

Hmmm...even that is debateable year in and year out. The SEC matchups certainly give you and advantage but it's probably closer than you think as typically 3 or 4 BSC teams seem to play two FBS game each year (it's tough to schedule out west and travel costs are high). Off the top of my head this year, BSC teams will have played Top 10 Wazzu, #23 8-1 Fresno State, Oregon, Utah, Cal, Florida, Arizona, Stanford.

You know what increases your chances of conference wins? Games against the MEAC and Big South while we're playing 8 games against the MVFC and then several more OOC xlolx against Big Sky teams.

In the end, the OOC SoS isn't even close.


Look how many Big Sky teams don't even play 1 single FBS game, case closed

[kalm]

So I am still waiting, name 3 teams you played that are not in the Big Sky? lol

Keep doubling down on stupid all you'd like. You were the one who originally stated CWU was our only "OOC" win.

Now...I'll throw you a bone and admit that Furman, Samford, and UTC have all made solid attempts at challenging OOC schedules over the past few years. I hope we see more of that.

[FUGameBreaker]

Keep doubling down on stupid all you'd like. You were the one who originally stated CWU was our only "OOC" win.

Now...I'll throw you a bone and admit that Furman, Samford, and UTC have all made solid attempts at challenging OOC schedules over the past few years. I hope we see more of that.


It is your only win dude, don't be a catastrophe to college football xnodx

[kalm]

Look how many Big Sky teams don't even play 1 single FBS game, case closed

You're losing badly here. Again...off the top of my head I say typically 2 or 3? The Montana's are the least likely to schedule an FBS because they have enough draw to balance the books with home games. But I'm pretty sure Montana plays one next year and they both have in the past.

[FUGameBreaker]

You're losing badly here. Again...off the top of my head I say typically 2 or 3? The Montana's are the least likely to schedule an FBS because they have enough draw to balance the books with home games. But I'm pretty sure Montana plays one next year and they both have in the past.


Only one losing here is you xthumbsupx


Does the Big Sky play the likes of an Alabama or Clemson, nope

Does the Big Sky have a good many teams that don't even play an FBS game, yes, 4 to be in fact (and NAU played joke UTEMP)

Does every SoCon team play at least 1 FBS game, yes

[cx500d]

Or you can just admit you were mistaken with your initial statement instead of doubling down as we both know NAU was considered OOC (your term) this year. Would the committee pair the two in the first round if they both made the playoffs and hadn't played? Is EWU's conference record according to the Big Sky 5-1 or 6-1 right now?

Regardless, a win over a 3-6 Big Sky team is still WAY better than any SoCon OOC. It was also on the road and back when they at least still had Butler, Cookus for a quarter and Bridges-Gadd the rest of the way. Now that I think of it, that 3-6 Big Sky team with a dominant win over an FBS plus a win against a top 5 FCS, has two better victories than any SoCon wins, in-conference or out.

LOL


This is funny! Remind me who the QB was when NAU played San Diego, and was that QB in for more than a quarter?

A dominating win against a FBS? You mean a team that had a 20 game losing streak before they finally beat a 1-9 team last week? Sheesh...

[cx500d]

Only one losing here is you xthumbsupx


Does the Big Sky play the likes of an Alabama or Clemson, nope

Does the Big Sky have a good many teams that don't even play an FBS game, yes, 4 to be in fact (and NAU played joke UTEMP)

Does every SoCon team play at least 1 FBS game, yes

You are funny too....My grandma could play Alabama or Clemson....The question is did you even put up a whimper in said games?

[FUGameBreaker]

You are funny too....My grandma could play Alabama or Clemson....The question is did you even put up a whimper in said games?



That's not the point here, the point being which conference plays the toughest FBS schedule

I know NDSU does not play FBS football, I know teams are afraid to schedule you, Ill give you a pass xthumbsupx

[kalm]

This is funny! Remind me who the QB was when NAU played San Diego, and was that QB in for more than a quarter?

Did I say it was a signature win? No. It was decent at the time and still not bad compared to the SoCon. Cookus played when NAU **** the bed against USD. But he's still a very good QB. Bridge-Gadd was the QB who beat a top 5 Weber this year and he played well in relief of Cookus in our game.

Since you bolded it, please tell me of one SoCon OOC win better than our OOC win against NAU.

[FUGameBreaker]

Did I say it was a signature win? No. It was decent at the time and still not bad compared to the SoCon. Cookus played when NAU **** the bed against USD. But he's still a very good QB. Bridge-Gadd was the QB who beat a top 5 Weber this year and he played well in relief of Cookus in our game.

Since you bolded it, please tell me of one SoCon OOC win better than our OOC win against NAU.




Catastrophe xrotatehx

[kalm]

That's not the point here, the point being which conference plays the toughest FBS schedule

I know NDSU does not play FBS football, I know teams are afraid to schedule you, Ill give you a pass xthumbsupx

Good point. EWU has recently scheduled home and homes with SHSU (when they were dominating) NDSU and UNI, and we have JSU (they were good at the time of scheduling and hopefully will be again) and WIU coming up in the next few years. Montana and Weber have had home and homes with NDSU. UNC has had one with UNI. MSU has them with WIU and SDSU.

Meanwhile...take pride in your games with Gardner Webb. xlolx

[kalm]

It's ok, kid. We all take our lumps from time to time.

[FUGameBreaker]

It's ok, kid. We all take our lumps from time to time.



You lost the FBS argument and switched to FCS, so who lost, that would be you

[cx500d]

Did I say it was a signature win? No. It was decent at the time and still not bad compared to the SoCon. Cookus played when NAU **** the bed against USD. But he's still a very good QB. Bridge-Gadd was the QB who beat a top 5 Weber this year and he played well in relief of Cookus in our game.

Since you bolded it, please tell me of one SoCon OOC win better than our OOC win against NAU.


This OOC business where you count a game against a conference team as an OOC game is ridiculous. That said, I think the Furman win over Colgate is a great win....Oh wait, that never happened. I think the near misses at WYO and FSU are more impressive than the 20 point beatdown of a team on a 20 game losing streak. Yeah thats right, those are quality losses. Weber is on borrowed time, too many games where they just got by...Yes, they win and a win is a win, but thats quite a string of ugly wins.

[FUGameBreaker]

This OOC business where you count a game against a conference team as an OOC game is ridiculous. That said, I think the Furman win over Colgate is a great win....Oh wait, that never happened. I think the near misses at WYO and FSU are more impressive than the 20 point beatdown of a team on a 20 game losing streak. Yeah thats right, those are quality losses. Weber is on borrowed time, too many games where they just got by...Yes, they win and a win is a win, but thats quite a string of ugly wins.



It is indeed ridiculous xnodx

[kalm]

This OOC business where you count a game against a conference team as an OOC game is ridiculous. That said, I think the Furman win over Colgate is a great win....Oh wait, that never happened. I think the near misses at WYO and FSU are more impressive than the 20 point beatdown of a team on a 20 game losing streak. Yeah thats right, those are quality losses. Weber is on borrowed time, too many games where they just got by...Yes, they win and a win is a win, but thats quite a string of ugly wins.

Reality is ridiculous sometimes and trust me, EVERY BSC team would much prefer to have a convenient nest of weaker FCS teams within a bus ride as life would be much easier as would our OOC and playoff records. Like it or not, in the eyes of the conference, the committee, and when comparing resumes, whether NAU is in the conference really doesn't matter. I'm not counting it as a quality win at all for us but how many SoCon teams have wins over a team that beat an FBS team and has a top 5 FCS win?

And honestly, it's hard to keep with your bouncing around between NAU, Wofford, Furman, Samford and then out of the blue bringing Weber into things. How about we now look at Davis and ETSU as well?

[FUGameBreaker]

Reality is ridiculous sometimes and trust me, EVERY BSC team would much prefer to have a convenient nest of weaker FCS teams within a bus ride as life would be much easier as would our OOC and playoff records. Like it or not, in the eyes of the conference, the committee, and when comparing resumes, whether NAU is in the conference really doesn't matter. I'm not counting it as a quality win at all for us but how many SoCon teams have wins over a team that beat has an FBS win and a top 5 FCS win?

And honestly, it's hard to keep with your bouncing around between NAU, Wofford, Furman, Samford and then out of the blue bringing Weber into things. How about we now look at Davis and ETSU as well?



You think Hawkins gonna stay at UC Davis for long?

[kalm]

You think Hawkins gonna stay at UC Davis for long?

I don’t know where he’s at in life but Davis has a large alumni base, large endowment, and well healed alumni. They’d certainly be capable of sweetening the pot and making a push to invest in the program.

[cx500d]

And honestly, it's hard to keep with your bouncing around between NAU, Wofford, Furman, Samford and then out of the blue bringing Weber into things. How about we now look at Davis and ETSU as well?

It’s called “not playing favorites”


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[Thumper 76]

Not dumb xthumbsupx


It is your only win dude, don't be a catastrophe to college football xnodx


You lost the FBS argument and switched to FCS, so who lost, that would be you

Oh. My. God. Someone take this dudes shovel away xlolx


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[uni88]

The fact you would consider that an OOC win is an absolute catastrophe to college football as we know it xnodx

The real catastrophe might be your lack of understanding of FCS geography - proximity to other schools and the the cost and impact of travel. EWU and NAU don't schedule an OOC game like that because they want to just like Furman didn't want an opponent to cancel a game.

[kalm]

It’s called “not playing favorites”


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Even more nebulous from an otherwise succinct poster. You ok?

[FUBeAR]

the cost and impact of travel. EWU and NAU don't schedule an OOC game


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZY2loo74

[PaladinNation]

How the heck can anyone stay sane — following this thread.

Gamebreaker… I appreciate your passion, but I'm not sure you're winning this pillow fight.

Concerning the SoCon in 2019, based on 2018 games played, and what the SoCon brings back next year — whew!
I think it's going to be a mess again — Furman is another year away, I think the DINS are better in 2019… 7 to 8 wins.
As a Paladin all I have to do is look at the roster, it won't be until 2020 that Furman has a depth chart that is dominated with upperclassmen.

Concerning OOC for Furman in 2019… Furman has Charleston Southern, VaTech, and GaSt, and one OOC game to firm up.

[katss07]

The real catastrophe might be your lack of understanding of FCS geography - proximity to other schools and the the cost and impact of travel. EWU and NAU don't schedule an OOC game like that because they want to just like Furman didn't want an opponent to cancel a game.
Actually Furman canceled the game.

Who are we kidding, all three of these conferences stink this year. Not one team listed here will make it far into the playoffs. Only team with a shot to advance past the second round is Samford with the way they’re playing. I’m just happy that the SLC finally has the depth. Right now it hurts us but in the long run it will be great.

[FUGameBreaker]

The real catastrophe might be your lack of understanding of FCS geography - proximity to other schools and the the cost and impact of travel. EWU and NAU don't schedule an OOC game like that because they want to just like Furman didn't want an opponent to cancel a game.



EWU and NAU both in the Big Sky = Not Out of Conference Game, slap whatever BS label you want on it, but there is no changing what it actually is xthumbsupx

[uni88]

EWU and NAU both in the Big Sky = Not Out of Conference Game, slap whatever BS label you want on it, but there is no changing what it actually is xthumbsupxThat is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You seem to be having problems differentiating between opinion and fact and that's not BS.

[FUBeAR]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You seem to be having problems differentiating between opinion and fact and that's not BS.Football Scheduling Seminar - 2018 Big Lie Conference Off-Season Meetings


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywn2Lz5zmYg

[gofurman]

when this said PILLOW FIGHT I REALLY hoped we had a video of sorority girls at the various conferences. THAT, my friends, would have been a win for everyone !

[FUGameBreaker]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You seem to be having problems differentiating between opinion and fact and that's not BS.


Oh ok so its opinion that EWU and NAU are both in the Big Sky conference, sure bud xthumbsupx

- - - Updated - - -


when this said PILLOW FIGHT I REALLY hoped we had a video of sorority girls at the various conferences. THAT, my friends, would have been a win for everyone !



Lol, indeed!

[uni88]

Oh ok so its opinion that EWU and NAU are both in the Big Sky conference, sure bud xthumbsupx

Don't be obtuse (it reflects poorly on the quality of a Furman education), it's your opinion that the EWU/NAU game wasn't an OOC game.

[FUGameBreaker]

Don't be obtuse (it reflects poorly on the quality of a Furman education), it's your opinion that the EWU/NAU game wasn't an OOC game.


Did EWU and NAU suddenly switch to being in different conferences xconfusedx

[kalm]

Oh ok so its opinion that EWU and NAU are both in the Big Sky conference, sure bud xthumbsupx

No that’s a fact.

Also fact: 2018 EWU @ NAU was a non-conference game.

[FormerPokeCenter]

No that’s a fact.

Also fact: 2018 EWU @ NAU was a non-conference game.


https://i.imgflip.com/2lxhch.jpg

[Professor Chaos]

"Wait.... you can schedule OOC games against teams in your own conference??? This changes everything!"

- The Ivy League

[kalm]

"Wait.... you can schedule OOC games against teams in your own conference??? This changes everything!"

- The Ivy League

xlolx

[FUGameBreaker]

"Wait.... you can schedule OOC games against teams in your own conference??? This changes everything!"

- The Ivy League



Lol, the Ives going to completely isolate themselves now

[woffordgrad94]

when this said PILLOW FIGHT I REALLY hoped we had a video of sorority girls at the various conferences. THAT, my friends, would have been a win for everyone !
Now we’re talking! And I’m still waiting for a “Girls Of The SoCon” pictorial in Playboy.

[cx500d]

Don't be obtuse (it reflects poorly on the quality of a Furman education), it's your opinion that the EWU/NAU game wasn't an OOC game.

Next time we lose to SDSU, I hope we can say its really an OOC game. Sounds like all you need to do is say its so.

[uni88]

Next time we lose to SDSU, I hope we can say its really an OOC game. Sounds like all you need to do is say its so.If by some quirk the MVFC has NDSU skip playing SDSU one season then yes you could schedule them as an OOC opponent and it wouldn't count as a conference game.

Big Sky fans correct me if I'm wrong .... the Big Sky has 13 teams and they play 8 conference games per season. Each team needs 3 OOC games and due to travel and logistics they can have difficulty finding OOC opponents that make financial sense. There are 4 conference mates who they don't play any season who are a potential OOC game in a pinch.

[cx500d]

If by some quirk the MVFC has NDSU skip playing SDSU one season then yes you could schedule them as an OOC opponent and it wouldn't count as a conference game.

Big Sky fans correct me if I'm wrong .... the Big Sky has 13 teams and they play 8 conference games per season. Each team needs 3 OOC games and due to travel and logistics they can have difficulty finding OOC opponents that make financial sense. There are 4 conference mates who they don't play any season who are a potential OOC game in a pinch.
orrr, they could jut schedule their conference mates and just call it a conference game. 8 pieces of flair is the minimum...do you just want to do the minimum?

[uni88]

orrr, they could jut schedule their conference mates and just call it a conference game. 8 pieces of flair is the minimum...do you just want to do the minimum?They're not required to do it, not all teams do it and I don't think any team does it every year so why go to a 9 game conference schedule?

[cx500d]

They're not required to do it, not all teams do it and I don't think any team does it every year so why go to a 9 game conference schedule?

Why schedule a conference opponent and call it a nonconference game? Inquiring minds want to know


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[Thumper 76]

Why schedule a conference opponent and call it a nonconference game? Inquiring minds want to know


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Because it completely screws with conference standings if some teams play 9 conference games and some play 8.


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[uni88]

Because it completely screws with conference standings if some teams play 9 conference games and some play 8.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe isn't this dense, he has to be trolling.

[Thumper 76]

He isn't this dense, he has to be trolling.

He is trolling. But still.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uni88]

He is trolling. But still.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm not self absorbed enough to think I'm the target. Is it EWU/Big Sky posters, FUGangBusters or someone else?

[kalm]

Because it completely screws with conference standings if some teams play 9 conference games and some play 8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. Plus you already have a situation where some conference schedules end up being easier than others. If this happened you’d still have that plus some teams would get 4 conference home games and some would get 5. Imagine this year where Team A avoids Davis, Weber, and EWU and hosts 5 home games while Team B gets all 3 on the road and only 4 home games period.

[JSUSoutherner]

"Wait.... you can schedule OOC games against teams in your own conference??? This changes everything!"

- The Ivy League

Post of the season

[Thumper 76]

I'm not self absorbed enough to think I'm the target. Is it EWU/Big Sky posters, FUGangBusters or someone else?

Big Fluffy. Or anyone who bites xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

Conversely lets look at the following, this will be EVERY single SoCon OOC loss this season:

Clemson (FBS)
Elon (6-2)(AGS ranked #7)
Tennessee (FBS)
Wyoming (FBS)
Florida State (FBS)
Kennesaw State (8-1)(AGS ranked #3)
South Carolina (FBS)
Memphis (FBS)
Yale (5-3)(Beat Maine who is AGS ranked #13)
Alabama (FBS)
Towson (6-3)(AGS ranked #15)
North Carolina (FBS)
Old Dominion (FBS)
Toledo (FBS)


I don't see 1 single 'bad' OOC loss, in fact they are all pretty solid teams xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

Not to mention EVERY single one of those games was on the road xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

Conversely lets look at the following, this will be EVERY single SoCon OOC loss this season:

Clemson (FBS)
Elon (6-2)(AGS ranked #7)
Tennessee (FBS)
Wyoming (FBS)
Florida State (FBS)
Kennesaw State (8-1)(AGS ranked #3)
South Carolina (FBS) Expected Loss, SoCon schools have been known to go into Columbia and come away with a scalp from time to time.
Memphis (FBS)
Yale (5-3)(Beat Maine, who may win CAA, BY 3 TD’s, who is AGS ranked #13)
Alabama (FBS) Expected Loss
Towson (6-3)(AGS ranked #15)
North Carolina (FBS) Expected Loss
Old Dominion (FBS) Expected Loss
Toledo (FBS)


I don't see 1 single 'bad' OOC loss, in fact they are all pretty solid teams xthumbsupxGood point.

I augmented your post and didn’t even get into the complete BS of a playing surface that compromised Mercer’s clear advantage (Southern Speed is still a ‘thing’ despite reports (and some evidence) to the contrary), which the Bears used to run (muddy) circles around Yale’s DB’s in the 2nd half...just took them too long to realize they retained that advantage despite the quagmire of a playing surface & had dug too deep of a mudhole for themselves by getting down 21-0 in the 1st quarter, while trying to find their footing in the slop that Yale practices & plays in every day. Oops...I guess I did get into it. Sorry...please disregard.

[Thumper 76]

Not to mention EVERY single one of those games was on the road xthumbsupxCool. The Pioneer league could play that schedule and lose every OOC game against good competition too. Not sure why thats a bonus for the SoCon. I believe that the point of showing the OOC wins shows that the SoCon has didn't have any good OOC wins. All you've shown is that they can take expected losses in FBS games and lose to good FCS teams. If the conference is looking for the respect that some seem to be campaigning for then they need to WIN those tough OOC games. Otherwise it is all window dressing. Thats why everyone is laughing at you bragging about having the toughest FBS games. Who cares? Unless you win one of them you aren't doing anything that even the worst FCS conferences could accomplish, which is lose to top 25 FBS programs. As should be expected. Nobody holds those losses against FCS teams OR the SoCon teams in particular, but you don't get bonus points for taking a paycheck to get skulldrug by Alabama.

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[FUGameBreaker]

Cool. The Pioneer league could play that schedule and lose every OOC game against good competition too. Not sure why thats a bonus for the SoCon. I believe that the point of showing the OOC wins shows that the SoCon has didn't have any good OOC wins. All you've shown is that they can take expected losses in FBS games and lose to good FCS teams. If the conference is looking for the respect that some seem to be campaigning for then they need to WIN those tough OOC games. Otherwise it is all window dressing. Thats why everyone is laughing at you bragging about having the toughest FBS games. Who cares? Unless you win one of them you aren't doing anything that even the worst FCS conferences could accomplish, which is lose to top 25 FBS programs. As should be expected. Nobody holds those losses against FCS teams OR the SoCon teams in particular, but you don't get bonus points for taking a paycheck to get skulldrug by Alabama.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk



Dude, what are you even wasting your time talking about lol

The main point is to show the SoCon has only lost 4 games total to FCS OOC teams all year, all of which are decent teams, all of which were on the road and 3 of which the AGS ranks in the top 15, so spare me with the BS. My point that the SoCon has not 1 single bad OOC loss stands.

[FUGameBreaker]

Therefore, conversely you can't show me 1 single OOC loss the SoCon has that makes the SoCon look bad xthumbsupx

[Thumper 76]

Dude, what are you even wasting your time talking about lol

The main point is to show the SoCon has only lost 4 games total to FCS OOC teams all year, all of which are decent teams, all of which were on the road and 3 of which the AGS ranks in the top 15, so spare me with the BS. My point that the SoCon has not 1 single bad OOC loss stands.

Other teams without bad OOC losses, but losing records and considered to be a good team by exactly nobody. SIU (loss to probably OVC champ and boarderline AGS top 25), Villanova, and Missouri State. Lack of bad losses proves nothing.


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[FUGameBreaker]

Other teams without bad OOC losses, but losing records and considered to be a good team by exactly nobody. SIU (loss to probably OVC champ and boarderline AGS top 25), Villanova, and Missouri State. Lack of bad losses proves nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Holy Cow thank you dude, you just made my point for me! You said lack of bad losses proves nothing, which is what I am saying also, you can't point to anything that proves to me the SoCon is not any good, there is no evidence for it, since we have only lost to 4 quality FCS OOC teams in total, all on the road.

Look I am not saying the SoCon is amazing, nor am I saying is as good as it once was, but its still a decent league and Ill stand by that until postseason comes around and we can find out "for sure" one way or another xthumbsupx

[BEAR]

Another conference can have our autobid. The SLC ain't going past the first round anyway. Not this year.

[JSUSoutherner]

So I just caught up on this thread and I like the argument of "Our OOC losses show we're an elite conference" maybe the OVC should try that some time.

[kalm]

Therefore, conversely you can't show me 1 single OOC loss the SoCon has that makes the SoCon look bad xthumbsupx

True. And if you’re comparing two resumes and everything else being equal, the team with no bad losses or fewer bad losses wins.

How do the bad losses and OOC SoS schedule from other conferences compare? Do they also have some good OOC wins sprinkled in?

Some of the SoCon SoS’s will improve a bit with late FBS games but as they currently stand...

ETSU 69
UTC 68
Samford 49
Wofford 47

Furman is the outlier at 14.

[JSUSoutherner]

Conversely lets look at the following, this will be EVERY single SoCon OOC loss this season:

Clemson (FBS)
Elon (6-2)(AGS ranked #7)
Tennessee (FBS)
Wyoming (FBS)
Florida State (FBS)
Kennesaw State (8-1)(AGS ranked #3)
South Carolina (FBS)
Memphis (FBS)
Yale (5-3)(Beat Maine who is AGS ranked #13)
Alabama (FBS)
Towson (6-3)(AGS ranked #15)
North Carolina (FBS)
Old Dominion (FBS)
Toledo (FBS)


I don't see 1 single 'bad' OOC loss, in fact they are all pretty solid teams xthumbsupx
Yeah well the OVC lost to:

Arkansas State (FBS)
Kentucky (FBS)
SIU (Who beat Missouri State, who beat Illinois State, who beat UNI, who beat SDSU who is AGS ranked #6 )
UCA (AGS ranked #33)
Marshall (FBS)
BGSU (FBS)
Vandy (FBS)
Georgia (FBS)
Arkansas (FBS)
ISUr (AGS ranked #26)
ISUb (AGS ranked #32)
UTC (AGS ranked #37)
MTSU (FBS)
Mizzou (FBS)
KSU (AGS ranked #3)
Utah State (FBS)

We have more FBS losses so we're clearly the superior conference and demand we get 3 at large bids.

[FUBeAR]

Yeah well the OVC lost to:

Arkansas State (FBS)
Kentucky (FBS)
SIU (Who beat Missouri State, who beat Illinois State, who beat UNI, who beat SDSU who is AGS ranked #6 )
UCA (AGS ranked #33)
Marshall (FBS)
BGSU (FBS)
Vandy (FBS)
Georgia (FBS)
Arkansas (FBS)
ISUr (AGS ranked #26)
ISUb (AGS ranked #32)
UTC (AGS ranked #37)
MTSU (FBS)
Mizzou (FBS)
KSU (AGS ranked #3)
Utah State (FBS)

We have more FBS losses so we're clearly the superior conference and demand we get 3 at large bids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt9q-WChfeM

[Reign of Terrier]

So I just caught up on this thread and I like the argument of "Our OOC losses show we're an elite conference" maybe the OVC should try that some time.You have to understand Furman logic of the past 2 seasons:

"We played a tough schedule therefore our quality losses out weigh your mid-tier wins"

I'm not joking when I say that's the **** I've been dealing with for the last year in socon threads

Now they want to generalize it to the entire conference and I'm not here for it.

It can be true that Furman is a good team and the Socon is the best conference outside of the MVFC and CAA AND our OOC is kind of lackluster, only beating weak teams and losing to some tough ones. Unfortunately, many of our friends in purple insist an argument style that degrades others' wins while chest beating moral victories (losses).

I'm all for giving teams with harder schedules the benefit of the doubt, but playing a harder schedule doesn't mean you're better automatically. One dimension of the game is winning, it sets apart teams that are on average similar but can't execute. Teams with weaker records can showcase that dimension. Losing teams can't, which is why I'm not surprised a team like ETSU keeps winning.

Being a tough team with a tough SOS warrants respect in itself, but people who boast about SOS to shoo away their record are basically asking for a participation trophy.

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[JSUSoutherner]

You have to understand Furman logic of the past 2 seasons:

"We played a tough schedule therefore our quality losses out weigh your mid-tier wins"

I'm not joking when I say that's the **** I've been dealing with for the last year in socon threads

Now they want to generalize it to the entire conference and I'm not here for it.

It can be true that Furman is a good team and the Socon is the best conference outside of the MVFC and CAA AND our OOC is kind of lackluster, only beating weak teams and losing to some tough ones. Unfortunately, many of our friends in purple insist an argument style that degrades others' wins while chest beating moral victories (losses).

I'm all for giving teams with harder schedules the benefit of the doubt, but playing a harder schedule doesn't mean you're better automatically. One dimension of the game is winning, it sets apart teams that are on average similar but can't execute. Teams with weaker records can showcase that dimension. Losing teams can't, which is why I'm not surprised a team like ETSU keeps winning.

Being a tough team with a tough SOS warrants respect in itself, but people who boast about SOS to shoo away their record are basically asking for a participation trophy.

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No, you're wrong. It's all about who you lose to.

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah well the OVC lost to:

Arkansas State (FBS)
Kentucky (FBS)
SIU (Who beat Missouri State, who beat Illinois State, who beat UNI, who beat SDSU who is AGS ranked #6 )
UCA (AGS ranked #33)
Marshall (FBS)
BGSU (FBS)
Vandy (FBS)
Georgia (FBS)
Arkansas (FBS)
ISUr (AGS ranked #26)
ISUb (AGS ranked #32)
UTC (AGS ranked #37)
MTSU (FBS)
Mizzou (FBS)
KSU (AGS ranked #3)
Utah State (FBS)

We have more FBS losses so we're clearly the superior conference and demand we get 3 at large bids.
Illinois St lost to UNI. You are awarded no points and may God have mercy on your soul.


…..however, Illinois St did beat Western Illinois who beat UNI.

[cx500d]

Illinois St lost to UNI. You are awarded no points and may God have mercy on your soul.


…..however, Illinois St did beat Western Illinois who beat UNI.

So Illinois State is like a self-licking ice cream cone

[JSUSoutherner]

Illinois St lost to UNI. You are awarded no points and may God have mercy on your soul.


…..however, Illinois St did beat Western Illinois who beat UNI.

That just makes our case better. Even our quality losses have quality losses!

[dgtw]

Count me as one who wants to go to seeding everyone and letting it play out.

If they did that I bet you’d find neighboring schools magically paired in the seeding.


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[FUGameBreaker]

That just makes our case better. Even our quality losses have quality losses!



Thanks for pointing out the OVC crappy loss to 2-7 SIU
Plus the 2 OVC losses to UTC (head to head battles if you will)

SoCon has nothing of the sort xthumbsupx

[MSUBobcat]

Wow... this is the thread that keeps on giving. Never in my life did I think I'd see someone argue that their conference is good because they play SEC teams and, predictably, get their $#it pushed in. Strength of opponent only helps if you keep it COMPETITIVE. Taking the money game is fine. Bad losses are expected and aren't held against the team, but you definitely don't get CREDIT for it either. Jebus.....

[FUBeAR]

Wow... this is the thread that keeps on giving. Never in my life did I think I'd see someone argue that their conference is good because they play SEC teams and, predictably, get their $#it pushed in. Strength of opponent only helps if you keep it COMPETITIVE. Taking the money game is fine. Bad losses are expected and aren't held against the team, but you definitely don't get CREDIT for it either. Jebus.....Only 1 SEC game, so far, this season, and, yeah, an ETSU Team NOT starting the QB that has turned their season around, got whipped pretty good.

On the other hand, Samford, a Team that ‘shoulda’ beat their SEC opponent a couple of years ago AND ‘shoulda’ beat their ACC Opponent the week before they lost to Mercer...who took Auburn deep into the 4th quarter before falling last year...getting that win over Samford the week before they lost to The Citadel, who beat an SEC Team a couple of years back.

I may have missed or misread some posts, but I didn’t see any SoCon Fans looking for credit for losing big to SEC Teams, but your characterization of the competiveness of all of these games is as inaccurate as the media typically portrays. Just about once a year, a SoCon Team puts a good scare into these SEC/ACC Teams - Samford this year (so far - don’t count Chatt out against USC or, for that matter, WCU against a bad UNC Team) @ FSU, Mercer last year @ Auburn, Samford the year before that @ Miss. St., and The Citadel with the win over South Carolina the year before that.

While Fans (like you) and the media assume and ‘misremember’ all of these SoCon games as being walkovers, they aren’t. I can assure you the Coaches of & the Players on these SEC & ACC Teams know it.

[FUGameBreaker]

Wow... this is the thread that keeps on giving. Never in my life did I think I'd see someone argue that their conference is good because they play SEC teams and, predictably, get their $#it pushed in. Strength of opponent only helps if you keep it COMPETITIVE. Taking the money game is fine. Bad losses are expected and aren't held against the team, but you definitely don't get CREDIT for it either. Jebus.....


Exactly thank you for helping me make my point, the SoCon has no bad losses so there is nothing to point to and say its a bad league.

Taking out the FBS losses, there are only a total of 4 FCS OOC losses all season which were all on the road, and all 4 teams are pretty solid winning and ranked teams, nothing to be ashamed of at all xthumbsupx

[MSUBobcat]

Only 1 SEC game, so far, this season, and, yeah, an ETSU Team NOT starting the QB that has turned their season around, got whipped pretty good.

On the other hand, Samford, a Team that ‘shoulda’ beat their SEC opponent a couple of years ago AND ‘shoulda’ beat their ACC Opponent the week before they lost to Mercer...who took Auburn deep into the 4th quarter before falling last year...getting that win over Samford the week before they lost to The Citadel, who beat an SEC Team a couple of years back.

I may have missed or misread some posts, but I didn’t see any SoCon Fans looking for credit for losing big to SEC Teams, but your characterization of the competiveness of all of these games is as inaccurate as the media typically portrays. Just about once a year, a SoCon Team puts a good scare into these SEC/ACC Teams - Samford this year (so far - don’t count Chatt out against USC or, for that matter, WCU against a bad UNC Team) @ FSU, Mercer last year @ Auburn, Samford the year before that @ Miss. St., and The Citadel with the win over South Carolina the year before that.

While Fans (like you) and the media assume and ‘misremember’ all of these SoCon games as being walkovers, they aren’t. I can assure you the Coaches of & the Players on these SEC & ACC Teams know it.


Look how many Big Sky teams don't even play 1 single FBS game, case closed


Only one losing here is you xthumbsupx


Does the Big Sky play the likes of an Alabama or Clemson, nope

Does the Big Sky have a good many teams that don't even play an FBS game, yes, 4 to be in fact (and NAU played joke UTEMP)

Does every SoCon team play at least 1 FBS game, yes

Your boy FUGB carried that torch for quite a few posts.

[FUBeAR]

Your boy FUGB carried that torch for quite a few posts.
Yeah...this line probably falls into the ‘taking credit’ category...

Does the Big Sky play the likes of an Alabama or Clemson, nope

...but the others; not so much. More like criticism of Big Lie Teams for NOT playing the better PAC12 or B1G Teams...methinks.

[MSUBobcat]

Exactly thank you for helping me make my point, the SoCon has no bad losses so there is nothing to point to and say its a bad league.

Taking out the FBS losses, there are only a total of 4 FCS OOC losses all season which were all on the road, and all 4 teams are pretty solid winning and ranked teams, nothing to be ashamed of at all xthumbsupx

I don't recall anyone saying it's a BAD league. Just that this year's version is more comparable to the OVC and SLC than the MVFC, CAA or even the Big Sky. My comment was just in reference to the absurdity of comparing FBS schedules between conferences. Getting knocked the f*** out by Mike Tyson doesn't mean I'm a good boxer.

[MSUBobcat]

Yeah...this line probably falls into the ‘taking credit’ category...

Does the Big Sky play the likes of an Alabama or Clemson, nope

...but the others; not so much. More like criticism of Big Lie Teams for NOT playing the better PAC12 Teams...methinks.

That was just a few of his posts claiming some kind of moral victory for playing a tough FBS. It has no bearing on the pecking order of the FCS teams or the individual conferences. Getting piss pounded by a top 25 FBS for some $$$ doesn't make you better (or worse) than a team that elects to play only FCS teams. It's a non-factor. You're getting money to take an asskicking, that's it. Maybe get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle.

[FUBeAR]

Just that this year's version is more comparable to the OVC and SLC than the MVFC, CAA or even the Big Sky.

Getting knocked the f*** out by Mike Tyson doesn't mean I'm a good boxer.1st line is complete BS. Possible CAA Champ lost by 3 scores to a middle-of-the-pack Ivy and until Big Lie can beat a non-schollie Team in the Playoffs, they will be the Conference that can’t beat a non-schollie in the Playoffs. JaxSt is the only Team in the OVC that I KNOW could be competitive in the SoCon. Maybe SEMO could this year, but I don’t KNOW that.

2nd line is true, but if you are a Trainer training 9 boxers & 3 of those go 15 rounds with IronMike and lose on a split decision, you ain’t a bad Trainer and you have a pretty good stable of contendah’s.

[FUBeAR]

That was just a few of his posts claiming some kind of moral victory for playing a tough FBS. It has no bearing on the pecking order of the FCS teams or the individual conferences. Getting piss pounded by a top 25 FBS for some $$$ doesn't make you better (or worse) than a team that elects to play only FCS teams. It's a non-factor. You're getting money to take an asskicking, that's it. Maybe get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle.When a SoCon Team takes one of these P5 SEC or ACC Teams to the wire or wins, it sure as all hell ain’t due to luck. What an assinine comment (misspelling intentional).

[MSUBobcat]

1st line is complete BS. Possible CAA Champ lost by 3 scores to a middle-of-the-pack Ivy and until Big Lie can beat a non-schollie Team in the Playoffs, they will be the Conference that can’t beat a non-schollie in the Playoffs. JaxSt is the only Team in the OVC that I KNOW could be competitive in the SoCon. Maybe SEMO could this year, but I don’t KNOW that.

2nd line is true, but if you are a Trainer training 9 boxers & 3 of those go 15 rounds with IronMike and lose on a split decision, you ain’t a bad Trainer and you have a pretty good stable of contendah’s.

xlolxxdrunkyx

[JSUSoutherner]

xlolxxdrunkyx
I don't know why you're still trying with them. Furman fans seem to be blinded by their own stupidity.

[MSUBobcat]

When a SoCon Team takes one of these P5 SEC or ACC Teams to the wire or wins, it sure as all hell ain’t due to luck. What an assinine comment (misspelling intentional).

I believe we are talking about 2018 (or 2019 per the title). So far the SoCon has a TERRIBLE OOC record. This is because they scheduled games that they either should dominate and did or should get their asses beat, and did. Like I said, my main amusement is from Purple Passion saying, "we play Bama and Clemson, you play Stanford and Wa State, therefore we're better." If you can't see the ridiculousness in that, we can't have a discussion.

[MSUBobcat]

I don't know why you're still trying with them. Furman fans seem to be blinded by their own stupidity.

Meh, just killing a little time before calling it a week. Time for some xdrunkyx of my own!!

[FUGameBreaker]

I don't recall anyone saying it's a BAD league. Just that this year's version is more comparable to the OVC and SLC than the MVFC, CAA or even the Big Sky. My comment was just in reference to the absurdity of comparing FBS schedules between conferences. Getting knocked the f*** out by Mike Tyson doesn't mean I'm a good boxer.


It dilutes the opportunities to get wins by playing more FBS teams, unlike the Montana schools who don't play FBS, its really not that hard to understand lol

I think your brain just does not have the capacity to understand mate, all good though, cheers

[uni88]

It deludes the opportunities to get wins by playing more FBS teams, unlike the Montana schools who don't play FBS, its really not that hard to understand lol

I think your brain just does not have the capacity to understand mate, all good though, cheersDeludes is a good word choice.

[FUGameBreaker]

Deludes is a good word choice.


Lol got me xlolx


Dilutes

[FUBeAR]

Lol got me xlolx


Diluteswould have gone with “precludes,” but “dilutes” works

[JSUSoutherner]

would have gone with “precludes,” but “dilutesl works

What is a dilutesl?

[FUBeAR]

What is a dilutesl?Lithuanian term for “band geek”

[Thumper 76]

I don't recall anyone saying it's a BAD league. Just that this year's version is more comparable to the OVC and SLC than the MVFC, CAA or even the Big Sky. My comment was just in reference to the absurdity of comparing FBS schedules between conferences. Getting knocked the f*** out by Mike Tyson doesn't mean I'm a good boxer.

I’ll say it. The SoCon is a BAD CONFERENCE. They are just slightly less bad than the OVC and Big South. Until someone shows me a win from the SoCon that is worth a hoot, that will remain the case. Spoiler alert, there are no wins worth a spit in the SoCon besides beating someone else from the pile of mediocrity that they put out there.


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[CockyGeek]

Because JSU's AD Greg Seitz is on the selection committee as he has been for the last 2 years when they've been grossly over-seeded.Do you think Seitz convinces people to rank JSU higher or that he breaks rules?

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[FUGameBreaker]

I’ll say it. The SoCon is a BAD CONFERENCE. They are just slightly less bad than the OVC and Big South. Until someone shows me a win from the SoCon that is worth a hoot, that will remain the case. Spoiler alert, there are no wins worth a spit in the SoCon besides beating someone else from the pile of mediocrity that they put out there.


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Says the guy who thought UNI was legit lol, just got beat down by Youngstown St. who lost to scrub Butler

You can't show me a bad loss for the SoCon but I can show you how garbage the MVFC is looking outside of Fargo with that result right there, next xthumbsupx

[Thumper 76]

Says the guy who thought UNI was legit lol, just got beat down by Youngstown St. who lost to scrub Butler

You can't show me a bad loss for the SoCon but I can show you how garbage the MVFC is looking outside of Fargo with that result right there, next xthumbsupx

Things the MVFC has done in the OOC that the SoCon hasn’t so far. Beat playoff teams, won an FBS game, and beaten possible seeds from other conferences. Next.


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[FUGameBreaker]

Things the MVFC has done in the OOC that the SoCon hasn’t so far. Beat playoff teams, won an FBS game, and beaten possible seeds from other conferences. Next.


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That's good stuff xthumbsupx

Just admit you were way wrong about UNI and we will call it even, or do you really think Butler would shred through the MVFC this year?

[Thumper 76]

That's good stuff xthumbsupx

Just admit you were way wrong about UNI and we will call it even, or do you really think Butler would shred through the MVFC this year?

You’re pretty new to FCS aren’t you....


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[FUGameBreaker]

You’re pretty new to FCS aren’t you....


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Sure, if you call 1997 new xthumbsupx


Was it you who said UNI passed the eye test, or was that another NDSU poster?

[Thumper 76]

Sure, if you call 1997 new xthumbsupx


Was it you who said UNI passed the eye test, or was that another NDSU poster?

Obviously not that closely. I’m not a ****ing cow fan.


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[FUGameBreaker]

Obviously not that closely. I’m not a ****ing cow fan.


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What are you even blabbering about right now lol, just go take a timeout

[Thumper 76]

What are you even blabbering about right now lol, just go take a timeout

Like I said. Not that closely.


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[FUGameBreaker]

Like I said. Not that closely.


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Sure xthumbsupx

[JSUSoutherner]

With SEMOs loss, if JSU wins today we will win the OVC outright and secure the auto bid.

I seriously doubt SEMO gets an at large with losses to Murray and EKU. I think the at-large pillowfight has been widdled down to just the SLC and SoCon.

[WestCoastAggie]

With SEMOs loss, if JSU wins today we will win the OVC outright and secure the auto bid.

I seriously doubt SEMO gets an at large with losses to Murray and EKU. I think the at-large pillowfight has been widdled down to just the SLC and SoCon.

The MVFC really wants to join in on this pillow fight.

[JSUSoutherner]

The MVFC really wants to join in on this pillow fight.
The MVFC is the pillow. xlolx

[katss07]

UIW beats UCA 40-27. If I would have told you that the Incarnate Word Cardinals would be in the playoffs prior to week 1...

[Schism55]

Pour one out for UCA and Sam....

[JSUSoutherner]

The Southland is trying their best to win the title of softest pillow. Holy crap.

[Reign of Terrier]

The Southland is trying their best to win the title of softest pillowbiter. Holy crap.

FYP

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[Professor Chaos]

Do you think Seitz convinces people to rank JSU higher or that he breaks rules?

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I don't think he breaks the rules. I also doubt he does any active campaigning for JSU (which could be interpreted as breaking the rules). What I do think is that the committee members develop friendships with each other especially when they've served on the same committee for several years with the same people and they "favor" their friends. 2016 was the most egregious example IMO when for some inexplicable reason JSU was ranked #1 when the initial committee rankings came out in late October and ended up seeded #3 when I thought they should've been #6.

I don't know if there's a great way to fix that... having ADs server shorter terms on the committee might lead to more fluctuations in how they weigh tendencies from year-to-year. Bottom line is I think there's a reason why JSU has been overseeded most frequently over the last few years and UNH has gotten the benefit of the doubt for at-large selection most frequently over the last few years that's more than just coincidence.

[Cocky]

Personally believe we have received a few seeds to help the bracket. On paper we have looked like the best team in the deep South. The bracket and travel was more manageable with a high seed in the South so boom JSU get the benefits. Of course we only helped for a week.

[uni88]

Sure xthumbsupxWhich school is Thumper fan of?

[gofurman]

I’ll say it. The SoCon is a BAD CONFERENCE. They are just slightly less bad than the OVC and Big South. Until someone shows me a win from the SoCon that is worth a hoot, that will remain the case. Spoiler alert, there are no wins worth a spit in the SoCon besides beating someone else from the pile of mediocrity that they put out there.


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Thumper, You know your stuff

cmon. The SOCON is NOT a bad conference. We just MAY not be as good as usual this year but we are still a top 5/6 type conference out of 15(?) conferences. At WORST we are the 7 th best conference.

Little bad bad luck that Furman had no QB and was sent to Elon who then beat JMU ! Furman wasnt gonna beat Elon. Neither was JMU !

citadel is one of our bottom half teams. Wish someone in our top three coulda played Towson

look. Maybe Socn is 6/7 best of, 15 (?) FCS conferences. Let's fix those others conferences first. AT WORST SoCon is ok' or ' decent ....NOT BAD

[Reign of Terrier]

I think it's a tragedy that the MVFC isn't in this thread title.

Spare me the "our conference is tough" bull****.

No one outside side of NDSU/SDSU has shown any consistency this year and I really have no reason to think the rest of the conference is that much better than the ranks of the socon.

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[JSUSoutherner]

I think it's a tragedy that the MVFC isn't in this thread title.

Spare me the "our conference is tough" bull****.

No one outside side of NDSU/SDSU has shown any consistency this year and I really have no reason to think the rest of the conference is that much better than the ranks of the socon.

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Their second worst team took down a P5.

[Reign of Terrier]

Their second worst team took down a P5.

Colorado State? They're G5. And bad.

[JSUSoutherner]

Colorado State? They're G5. And bad.

My mistake, I was thinking Colorado. Regardless, it's a better win than the SoCon as a whole currently has.

[kdinva]

No one outside side of NDSU/SDSU has shown any consistency this year

agree........the Valley will get only two slots in playoffs in 2018

[Reign of Terrier]

My mistake, I was thinking Colorado. Regardless, it's a better win than the SoCon as a whole currently has.

Cool, one big win. That doesn't take from the fact that the MVFC is a dumpster fire this year. North Carolina A&T beat ECU, but that doesn't stop people from ****ting on them.

[Cocky]

Their second worst team took down a P5.
Southland has a P5 win.

[JSUSoutherner]

Southland has a P5 win.
Yes. We aren't talking about the Southland.

[Cocky]

Cool, one big win. That doesn't take from the fact that the MVFC is a dumpster fire this year. North Carolina A&T beat ECU, but that doesn't stop people from ****ting on them.
I watched most of the ISUr v SDSU game and neither would strike fear in any top level team. FCS appears this year to be NDSU and the group of 30. Any of the next 30 beating one of the one members of the 30 would not be much of a surprise.

[gofurman]

. Yes. We aren't talking about the Southland.

And maybe we should be. Not sure some of this SoCon hate

i am objective. SoCon may be a little weaker than usual. Maybe. But still a top 5/6 type FCS conference out if what 15 or 16 FCS conferences ?

[kalm]

Thumper, You know your stuff

cmon. The SOCON is NOT a bad conference. We just MAY not be as good as usual this year but we are still a top 5/6 type conference out of 15(?) conferences. At WORST we are the 7 th best conference.

Little bad bad luck that Furman had no QB and was sent to Elon who then beat JMU ! Furman wasnt gonna beat Elon. Neither was JMU !

citadel is one of our bottom half teams. Wish someone in our top three coulda played Towson

look. Maybe Socn is 6/7 best of, 15 (?) FCS conferences. Let's fix those others conferences first. AT WORST SoCon is ok' or ' decent ....NOT BAD

It's not a bad conference. I'd still say easily the 4th best. It's just that the parity/beat each other defense wears thin. The Citadel beat a .500 Samford yesterday. That happens in every conference. Bottom of the pack YSU beat UNI, Cal Poly beat ISUo.

The best comparison to make is OOC and as I've been mentioning for a few weeks now when I kept hearing the SoCon is strong and a 3 bid conference is that there is a shortage of quality OOC wins compared to Big Sky, MVFC, and CAA.

[ElCid]

Well golly. We will just have to put this issue to bed once and for all and beat bama next week.

Whoa, what happened? Is it hot in here?

[FUBeAR]

Well golly. We will just have to put this issue to bed once and for all and beat bama next week.

Whoa, what happened? Is it hot in here?ROLL LUGGAGE!!

[Cocky]

Yes. We aren't talking about the Southland.

You were looking for a P5 win so I thought I would tell where to find one.

[JSUSoutherner]

ROLL LUGGAGE!!

Lmfao

[gofurman]

It's not a bad conference. I'd still say easily the 4th best. It's just that parity/beat each other defense wears thin. The Citadel beat a .500 Samford yesterday. That happens in every conference. Bottom of the pack YSU beat UNI, Cal Poly beat ISUo.

The best comparison to make OOC and as I've been mentioning for a few weeks now when I kept hearing the SoCon is strong and 3 bid conference is that there is a shortage of quality OOC wins compared to Big Sky, MVFC, and CAA.

kalm. I agree. Good objective response. I DONT think SoCon is great but it's a very good conference as we look around the country relatively. I was trying to be conservative saying 5th best or even 6th best FCS conference . How many FCS conferences are there? 15? 16?

[Reign of Terrier]

Meanwhile, I think the Big South is basically the Patriot League.

The only three teams operating at full scholarship capacity right now are Gardner Webb, CSU and Kennesaw.

And it shows.

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[PaladinFan]

It's not a bad conference. I'd still say easily the 4th best. It's just that the parity/beat each other defense wears thin. The Citadel beat a .500 Samford yesterday. That happens in every conference. Bottom of the pack YSU beat UNI, Cal Poly beat ISUo.

The best comparison to make is OOC and as I've been mentioning for a few weeks now when I kept hearing the SoCon is strong and a 3 bid conference is that there is a shortage of quality OOC wins compared to Big Sky, MVFC, and CAA.

Said this before, but the SoCon is still recovering from losing App and GSU.

I don't think any current conference even has two programs like those two currently in their conference, much less would be able to quickly to recover from losing both of them in the same season.

It'd be like losing JMU and NDSU at the same time from the same conference. It takes a minute to recover. The SoCon will recover.

[FUBeAR]

Said this before, but the SoCon is still recovering from losing App and GSU.

I don't think any current conference even has two programs like those two currently in their conference, much less would be able to quickly to recover from losing both of them in the same season.

It'd be like losing JMU and NDSU at the same time from the same conference. It takes a minute to recover. The SoCon will recover.

I don't even know why we're entertaining this discussion with peeps from the Big Lie. Until they become the Conference that DOESN'T lose 1st Round Playoff Games at Home to Non-Scholarship Teams, then all the Big Lie will be is the Conference that DOES lose 1st Round Playoffs Games at Home to Non-Scholarship Teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

I place high odds that a Socon team gets shipped out to a Big Sky team

[FUBeAR]

I place high odds that a Socon team gets shipped out to a Big Sky teamHey - maybe Chatt can beat the Cocks in Columbia and pick up a bid. Send 'em out to Weber...so they can reprise what happened the last time a SoCon Team played a Big Lie Team...


https://gomocs.com/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/Weber_State.png&width=150&height=120
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vs
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WEBER STATE -VS- CHATTANOOGA



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Weber State
0
0
7
7
14


Chattanooga
14
10
7
14
45

[semobison]

Lots of SoCon whining the last couple pages in this thread. At first I thought it was just a few Furman fans, but it seems to be spreading to their conference mates. You all should be happy that most of the Valley has been cannibalizing each other this year. There is not a team in the SoCon that would make the playoffs playing in the MVFC this year much like UNI and Illinois State. But who knows, one of these years you might even get a team past the quarterfinals!

[FUBeAR]

“This site can’t be reached

gopaladins.com’s server IP address could not be found.”


HACKED, no doubt!

I suspect the Russians, the Chinese, TerrierNinjas, JSUSoutherner, or a cabal of Big Lie Conference Fans working in cahoots with a few militant Bizuns Fans...not, necessarily, in that order.

[kalm]

I place high odds that a Socon team gets shipped out to a Big Sky team

With possibly 5 out of 8 seeds coming from west of the Mississippi, there’s a good chance as well as a CAA or two.

[kalm]

Hey - maybe Chatt can beat the Cocks in Columbia and pick up a bid. Send 'em out to Weber...so they can reprise what happened the last time a SoCon Team played a Big Lie Team...


https://gomocs.com/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/Weber_State.png&width=150&height=120
14
vs
https://gomocs.com/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/site/site.png&width=150&height=120
45

WEBER STATE -VS- CHATTANOOGA



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Weber State
0
0
7
7
14


Chattanooga
14
10
7
14
45



I’m pretty sure any Big sky would welcome any Southern team with open arms.

[FUBeAR]

I’m pretty sure any Big sky would welcome any Southern team with open arms.
Welcomed ‘em with open cheeks last time.

[woffordgrad94]

Hey - maybe Chatt can beat the Cocks in Columbia and pick up a bid. Send 'em out to Weber...so they can reprise what happened the last time a SoCon Team played a Big Lie Team...


https://gomocs.com/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/Weber_State.png&width=150&height=120
14
vs
https://gomocs.com/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/site/site.png&width=150&height=120
45

WEBER STATE -VS- CHATTANOOGA



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Weber State
0
0
7
7
14


Chattanooga
14
10
7
14
45



And don’t forget Wofford beat Montana...

[woffordgrad94]

Welcomed ‘em with open cheeks last time.
And then some jailhouse action commenced! :Dxthumbsupx

[Reign of Terrier]

When was the last time a socon team lost to the Big Sky? App State?

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[FUBeAR]

When was the last time a socon team lost to the Big Sky? App State?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkFurman lost @ Montana State in 2006 in the 1st round of the Playoffs on a freezing, windy day...while wearing Garnet & Black sideline parkas with chickens on them.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford beat Montana in 2007 and Chattanooga beat Weber (at home) a couple years ago.

Regionalization in the expanded field has it to where the socon only plays the Big Sky/MVFC deep in the playoffs

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[SCPALADIN]

Wofford beat Montana in 2007 and Chattanooga beat Weber (at home) a couple years ago.

Regionalization in the expanded field has it to where the socon only plays the Big Sky/MVFC deep in the playoffs

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...which sucks out loud, IMHO.

[walliver]

No SoCon team deserves a seed this year, although I can see ETSU slipping into 8th if they win (after the cigars come out in the committee room). As a result, no SoCon teams will meet in the round of 24 or the round of 16. With the paucity of other competitive teams in the Southeast, there may be a few long trips early.

[Reign of Terrier]

...which sucks out loud, IMHO.

the more i think about it, the more I believe the computers and playoff committee give an exposure bump to teams in close proximity to the national champion. I can only speak for my own team, but I really do think Wofford is better a team today (flaws and all) than we were 10 years ago (more talent, etc). Yet still, I think if you look up week-to-week rankings, we were higher up (or more likely to be higher ranked) between 2007-2011 or so than 2016-2018.

Today, this translates to the teams in the conference of the 6x time national champ getting major love in the computers and the conference that plays them the most often (the Big Sky) getting more love from the computers.

Yes, it is true that the CAA somewhat runs counter to this trend, I will admit that. But the CAA also has more turnover year-to-year. The MVFC may be the best conference of the past 5 years. The CAA is the best conference of the last 20.

[cx500d]

It's not a bad conference. I'd still say easily the 4th best. It's just that the parity/beat each other defense wears thin. The Citadel beat a .500 Samford yesterday. That happens in every conference. Bottom of the pack YSU beat UNI, Cal Poly beat ISUo.

The best comparison to make is OOC and as I've been mentioning for a few weeks now when I kept hearing the SoCon is strong and a 3 bid conference is that there is a shortage of quality OOC wins compared to Big Sky, MVFC, and CAA.

I’m impressed with what the big sky has done this year.


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[PaladinFan]

Furman lost @ Montana State in 2006 in the 1st round of the Playoffs on a freezing, windy day...while wearing Garnet & Black sideline parkas with chickens on them.

Also snowing.

[FUBeAR]

Also snowing.
Thought so, but just said “overcast” in the ‘official record’

[WestCoastAggie]

So it's safe to assume the SLC will only have one bid with Nicholls winning the conference?

[Reign of Terrier]

To Nicholls credit they have played some pretty good football this year. Yes they lost a head scratcher or two but otherwise pretty good

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[FUGameBreaker]

So it's safe to assume the SLC will only have one bid with Nicholls winning the conference?


Seems likely

[JSUSoutherner]

So it's safe to assume the SLC will only have one bid with Nicholls winning the conference?

I think a big, dominating win over McNeese could give Lamar a good chance. They've been trending up and would have a nice exclamation point to cap the season. I think the committee would value that.

[uni88]

Said this before, but the SoCon is still recovering from losing App and GSU.

I don't think any current conference even has two programs like those two currently in their conference, much less would be able to quickly to recover from losing both of them in the same season.

It'd be like losing JMU and NDSU at the same time from the same conference. It takes a minute to recover. The SoCon will recover.

Huh? Until it's 3peat App State was in the argument with UNI and McNeese for best team to never win a natty. Good program but not in the same power category as GaSo. Losing them hurt but it might have been aggravated by the apparent focus on replacing them with private schools.

[FUGameBreaker]

Huh? Until it's 3peat App State was in the argument with UNI and McNeese for best team to never win a natty. Good program but not in the same power category as GaSo. Losing them hurt but it might have been aggravated by the apparent focus on replacing them with private schools.


Key word you used was "UNTIL"

Then they went on to dominate FCS for a stretch and still be good after that, not to mention lead FCS in attendance at about 25k per game

[FUGameBreaker]

And yes we probably need to add 1 or 2 bigger schools, ie. Kennesaw St.

[FUBeAR]

Huh? Losing them hurt but it might have been aggravated by the apparent focus on replacing them with private schools.
Huh?

VMI & ETSU are public (State) schools. Mercer is a private school.
Appy & GaSou are public (State) schools. Elon is a private school.

The public/private mix of the SoCon in 2018 is exactly the same as it was in 2013.

5 public / 4 private

No aggravation, apparently.

http://i.imgur.com/94MzT8p.jpg

[uni88]

Huh?

VMI & ETSU are public (State) schools. Mercer is a private school.
Appy & GaSou are public (State) schools. Elon is a private school.

The public/private mix of the SoCon in 2018 is exactly the same as it was in 2013.

5 public / 4 private

No aggravation, apparently.

My bad. I thought I remembered a lot of spirited discussion about the replacements and the undue influence of the SoCon's small privates on the direction of the conference.

Before he had a great leader (Ritchie Williams) and a transcendent FCS talent (Edwards) at QB, Jerry Moore was the Farley of the SoCon. They needed to stick around and maintain their competitiveness before they could have been considered in the same category as GaSo.

Couldn't it be argued that Furman's temporary decline also had a similar impact on the SoCon's position in the FCS universe.

[Reign of Terrier]

My bad. I thought I remembered a lot of spirited discussion about the replacements and the undue influence of the SoCon's small privates on the direction of the conference.

Before he had a great leader (Ritchie Williams) and a transcendent FCS talent (Edwards) at QB, Jerry Moore was the Farley of the SoCon. They needed to stick around and maintain their competitiveness before they could have been considered in the same category as GaSo.

Couldn't it be argued that Furman's temporary decline also had a similar impact on the SoCon's position in the FCS universe.

I would argue Wofford is in that category now. Then again, it's hard to make that argument about anyone at this moment in time because NDSU dominating the FCS skews perception. Seemingly everyone chokes.

[PaladinFan]

I would argue Wofford is in that category now. Then again, it's hard to make that argument about anyone at this moment in time because NDSU dominating the FCS skews perception. Seemingly everyone chokes.

Wofford and UTC benefited the most from GSU/App's departure and the decline of the Furman program.

Gut feeling is that Furman is going to reestablish itself as a national player soon enough. Hendrix is looking at back to back winning seasons and playoff appearances. The team is young. The talent coming in is impressive. The coaching staff knows how to run a railroad.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford didn't make the playoffs in the first 3 years that App/GSU weren't eligible/left the socon.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the fourth/fifth place MVFC team, when making the playoffs, isn't as impressive in the playoffs as people think. They reliably win 1 game 2/3 of the time (since 2013), but they always lose in the next game. Granted, that's often to a top 3 MVFC team, but if your argument is that your conference is the deepest, you would regularly see those 4th/5th place team making deeper runs in the playoffs. You don't. A lot of times that first round game depends greatly on matchups, but few of those teams have been super-duper impressive. They've included teams with less 63 scholarships like Monmouth and Dayton. Some of them have been good wins against other solid bubble teams (Montana State, Nicholls State) with the most impressive coming against Stephen F Austin.

Anyway, my point is, I don't think that anyone would argue that the 4th/5th place MVFC could beat (or lose to) the 4th place Socon, Big Sky, CAA, etc (and third place Southland) team in a competitive game. If these wins were all regularly blowouts, I would agree that the 4th/5th MVFC team should get consideration over 3rd/4th place teams in these conferences. But they don't.

Like the CAA, the MVFC has a lot of turnover in terms of which specific schools make the playoffs on any given year, but unlike the CAA, there's reliable outcomes to how the 4th place team does: win a game if the matchup is favorable, then lose the next one.

I think the reason why this is is because the CAA 4th place team gets sent on the road to a more favorable match up, which gives them a better chance to win the first one, but that's another discussion.

[uni88]

Wofford and UTC benefited the most from GSU/App's departure and the decline of the Furman program.

Gut feeling is that Furman is going to reestablish itself as a national player soon enough. Hendrix is looking at back to back winning seasons and playoff appearances. The team is young. The talent coming in is impressive. The coaching staff knows how to run a railroad.I agree with YT and PF. Wofford stepped up to help fill the void and Furman appears to be on their way back. Both are good for the SoCon and FCS.

[uni88]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the fourth/fifth place MVFC team, when making the playoffs, isn't as impressive in the playoffs as people think. They reliably win 1 game 2/3 of the time (since 2013), but they always lose in the next game. Granted, that's often to a top 3 MVFC team, but if your argument is that your conference is the deepest, you would regularly see those 4th/5th place team making deeper runs in the playoffs. You don't. A lot of times that first round game depends greatly on matchups, but few of those teams have been super-duper impressive. They've included teams with less 63 scholarships like Monmouth and Dayton. Some of them have been good wins against other solid bubble teams (Montana State, Nicholls State) with the most impressive coming against Stephen F Austin.

Anyway, my point is, I don't think that anyone would argue that the 4th/5th place MVFC could beat (or lose to) the 4th place Socon, Big Sky, CAA, etc (and third place Southland) team in a competitive game. If these wins were all regularly blowouts, I would agree that the 4th/5th MVFC team should get consideration over 3rd/4th place teams in these conferences. But they don't.

Like the CAA, the MVFC has a lot of turnover in terms of which specific schools make the playoffs on any given year, but unlike the CAA, there's reliable outcomes to how the 4th place team does: win a game if the matchup is favorable, then lose the next one.

I think the reason why this is is because the CAA 4th place team gets sent on the road to a more favorable match up, which gives them a better chance to win the first one, but that's another discussion.How often does that 4th/5th place MVFC team get sent to Fargo or another seeded conference mate due to regionalization after winning it's first round game? You can't lose a loss to a conference mate as proof that the conference wasn't as strong as some thought.

I need to check on the year but UNI beat EIU and then Portland State a few years ago. Not sure if that was in your timeframe or an exception that proves your rule.

The MVFC is better at the bottom and worse in the middle this year but this year doesn't change the strength of the conference in prior years.

[Reign of Terrier]

How often does that 4th/5th place MVFC team get sent to Fargo or another seeded conference mate due to regionalization after winning it's first round game? You can't lose a loss to a conference mate as proof that the conference wasn't as strong as some thought.

I need to check on the year but UNI beat EIU and then Portland State a few years ago. Not sure if that was in your timeframe or an exception that proves your rule.

The MVFC is better at the bottom and worse in the middle this year but this year doesn't change the strength of the conference in prior years.

Based on wikipedia, they were third place. And that UNI team was probably the best exception, if they weren't third place.

Admittedly, I'm going on how wikipedia lists their final standings (lots of teams tied for third, etc) which could have adjusted based on playoff performance. I'll let someone check me on that, as I could be wrong. My point is not to knock the MVFC's past strength, just pointing out if we're going to draw conclusions based on the past, it's a pretty consistent pattern that I've outlined.

And the fact that the MVFC eliminates itself doesn't really contradict my point. I'm pointing out that if your position is that the MVFC can beat anyone in November on any given saturday, it's not substantiated by the playoff performance as the top 3 consistently beat the middle 3. What's weird is that you can find examples of conference rematch upsets in the socon, southland and underperformances in the Big Sky and CAA (this is all at a glance), but in the case of the MVFC, the outcomes appear to be consistent with the top 3 teams being consistently better than the rest.

[FUBeAR]

My bad. I thought I remembered a lot of spirited discussion about the replacements and the undue influence of the SoCon's small privates on the direction of the conference.
Yes, when your ‘comparable’ school (Appy) wins 3 FCS Nat’l Championships and moves to FBS and you also watch “the privates” win numerous SoCon titles, play in 3 NC games & win 1 (FU), win several SoCon Championships & make deep runs in the Playoffs (Woffy), and build a winning, oft-ranked program (Samford) & you’ve (WCU) had a decades-long awful run with multiple coaching changes and no playoffs since 1983 and never won a SoCon Championship (joined 1976) OR a similar decade or so of very bad Teams, multiple Head Coaches, and almost 0 Student body interest in the program (UTC)...then you need to find a “bogeyman” to blame for all of your ills.

That is the source of those spirited, yet pointless discussions you recall.

[Sir William]

Yes, when your ‘comparable’ school (Appy) wins 3 FCS Nat’l Championships and moves to FBS and you also watch “the privates” win numerous SoCon titles, play in 3 NC games & win 1 (FU), win several SoCon Championships & make deep runs in the Playoffs (Woffy), and build a winning, oft-ranked program (Samford) & you’ve (WCU) had a decades-long awful run with multiple coaching changes and no playoffs since 1983 and never won a SoCon Championship (joined 1976) OR a similar decade or so of very bad Teams, multiple Head Coaches, and almost 0 Student body interest in the program (UTC)...then you need to find a “bogeyman” to blame for all of your ills.

That is the source of those spirited, yet pointless discussions you recall.

This^. Nailed it.

[Reign of Terrier]

(App State and GSU leaving was great for the long-term balance of the socon, change my mind)