Dartmouth Faces Princeton In Game That Should, But Doesn’t, Have Playoff Implications

[Lehigh Football Nation]

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/unbeaten-dartmouth-faces-unbeaten-princeton-in-a-game-that-should-but-doesnt-have-fcs-playoff-implications/

[JSUSoutherner]

It's a real shame we won't get to see how these two would stack up in the postseason. Despite being a great Ivy League matchup it won't mean anything because we still won't have any other data points to compare and see how the results translate to the rest of the FCS. I don't think the Ivy's absence from the postseason would be as big a deal if they stepped outside their bubble of OOC games. Princeton or Dartmouth could be as good as NDSU and we would never know.

[Ivytalk]

Good article! I think the game will be like both teams’ Harvard games, with the winner and loser both scoring in the 20s.

[JSUSoutherner]

My money is on Dartmouth. I think they will try to counter Lovett and that offense by grinding out longer drives and running the ball and just play ball control.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm all for playoff participation (assuming my team would ever see it, which is next to none), but it doesn't answer the basic question--what's in it for the Ivies? A bus trip to Macomb, IL in December?

[Go Green]

Despite being a great Ivy League matchup it won't mean anything because we still won't have any other data points to compare and see how the results translate to the rest of the FCS.

I don't disagree with your larger point. But the Lambert Cup will be between JMU, Colgate, and the D-P winner.

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A bus trip to Macomb, IL in December?

We'd fly.

:)

[Go Green]

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/unbeaten-dartmouth-faces-unbeaten-princeton-in-a-game-that-should-but-doesnt-have-fcs-playoff-implications/

If the pictures that CSJ chose for that article are any indication, they sure seem to think that Dartmouth is going to win.

:)

[DFW HOYA]

I don't disagree with your larger point. But the Lambert Cup will be between JMU, Colgate, and the D-P winner.

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We'd fly.

:)

Georgetown's hasn't flown to a game in 16 years. Poor scheduling will do that.

[Go Green]

Georgetown's hasn't flown to a game in 16 years. Poor scheduling will do that.

What was the last trip Georgetown football made on a plane?

[TheKingpin28]

I don't disagree with your larger point. But the Lambert Cup will be between JMU, Colgate, and the D-P winner.

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We'd fly.

:)

Have you seen the Macomb airport? xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

What was the last trip Georgetown football made on a plane?

Sep. 28, 2002 at Florida Int'l.

Lost 27-2 before a crowd of 6,084. (They didn't return the game.)

https://static.fiusports.com/custompages/Stats/FB/2002/fiu05.htm#GAME.NEW

[ST_Lawson]

I'm all for playoff participation (assuming my team would ever see it, which is next to none), but it doesn't answer the basic question--what's in it for the Ivies? A bus trip to Macomb, IL in December?

Nah, we wouldn't outbid anyone anyway. We'll play at their place.


Have you seen the Macomb airport? xlolx

Wait...we have one of those?

https://i.giphy.com/EouEzI5bBR8uk.gif

[katss07]

If I remember correctly, WIU was outbid by Dayton a few years ago for hosting rights, producing a grand crowd of 700! Funny thing is, I wonder if WIU would have outdrawn that.

Point is, a Pioneer team will host before a team travels to Macomb for a playoff game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If I remember correctly, WIU was outbid by Dayton a few years ago for hosting rights, producing a grand crowd of 700! Funny thing is, I wonder if WIU would have outdrawn that.

Point is, a Pioneer team will host before a team travels to Macomb for a playoff game.

Butler also hosted Illinois State.

Those two have pretty wealthy athletic departments thanks to lucrative hoops programs.

[ST_Lawson]

If I remember correctly, WIU was outbid by Dayton a few years ago for hosting rights, producing a grand crowd of 700! Funny thing is, I wonder if WIU would have outdrawn that.

Point is, a Pioneer team will host before a team travels to Macomb for a playoff game.

I honestly don't know if we would have outbid Dayton, but in that instance, we didn't put in a bid. We would have hit the road in the first round regardless of who we were playing. Bid the second round, but IL State bid higher.

[Laker]

What was the last trip Georgetown football made on a plane?

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2014/08/first-flight-with-the-wright-brothers/w06_0000592u/main_900.jpg?1420498837

[bonarae]

Meanwhile...

Will we ever see Ivy football in the playoffs in OUR lifetimes? That's the bigger question.

[Laker]

Meanwhile...

Will we ever see Ivy football in the playoffs in OUR lifetimes? That's the bigger question.

I hope that I live that long....... I think.

[cx500d]

Have you seen the Macomb airport? xlolx
5100' x 100' asphalt east/west runway....You can get a 737 in that; it would probably not be a greaser and pretty firm.

In comparison, the 737 that ran off the 5802' x 150' runway at Burbank was carrying some excessive speed, so don't use that as a comparison that it can't be done. You definitely have to bring your A game though.

Macomb also has a 3719' x 190' North/south grass runway...Not sure how the landing performance of a 737 is on grass, but in general you can stop a lot quicker on grass than asphalt.

[ColgateTD]

It's a real shame we won't get to see how these two would stack up in the postseason. Despite being a great Ivy League matchup it won't mean anything because we still won't have any other data points to compare and see how the results translate to the rest of the FCS. I don't think the Ivy's absence from the postseason would be as big a deal if they stepped outside their bubble of OOC games. Princeton or Dartmouth could be as good as NDSU and we would never know.

+1

[ColgateTD]

Meanwhile...

Will we ever see Ivy football in the playoffs in OUR lifetimes? That's the bigger question.

I doubt it. I've been asking that question since the 1950s when Dick Kazmaier was running wild for the Tigers. The Ivies don't seem to budge on this issue.

[ST_Lawson]

5100' x 100' asphalt east/west runway....You can get a 737 in that; it would probably not be a greaser and pretty firm.

In comparison, the 737 that ran off the 5802' x 150' runway at Burbank was carrying some excessive speed, so don't use that as a comparison that it can't be done. You definitely have to bring your A game though.

Macomb also has a 3719' x 190' North/south grass runway...Not sure how the landing performance of a 737 is on grass, but in general you can stop a lot quicker on grass than asphalt.

I'm not sure it'd be a great idea to try it. To be fair, I don't know squat about jets and runway lengths, but I was always told that the only kind of jet that could land out there was a small private one, like a Gulfstream or whatever. None of the 737 models listed here would do it: http://aircyber.weebly.com/aircraft-runway-requirements.html

[cx500d]

I'm not sure it'd be a great idea to try it. To be fair, I don't know squat about jets and runway lengths, but I was always told that the only kind of jet that could land out there was a small private one, like a Gulfstream or whatever. None of the 737 models listed here would do it: http://aircyber.weebly.com/aircraft-runway-requirements.html


I don't know where those numbers come from because there is no one set number for landing distance as there are several variables going into it. If you go to the 737 performance charts it's clearly well within the box using the most conservative flaps 40, and in the box even for flaps 30 and even flaps 15 for some conditions and configurations. Of course it's dependant on airfield pressure altitude, aircraft weight and dry vs wet runway conditions.

Landing performance charts start on page 270:
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/737sec3.pdf


Here's the limitation from reading KMQB's Chart Supplement Airport Facility information: KMQB's paved runway weight capacity for the dual wheel landing gear like a 737 has is only 21,000 lbs. From the performance charts it looks like 70,000 lbs is the landing minimum for a 737. You might cause some damage to the runway and ramps. The grass field has no weight rating, so I say go for the grass runwayxsmiley_wix

[caribbeanhen]

something is telling me Dartmouth is going to pull the upset

[ST_Lawson]

I don't know where those numbers come from because there is no one set number for landing distance as there are several variables going into it. If you go to the 737 performance charts it's clearly well within the box using the most conservative flaps 40, and in the box even for flaps 30 and even flaps 15 for some conditions and configurations. Of course it's dependant on airfield pressure altitude, aircraft weight and dry vs wet runway conditions.

Landing performance charts start on page 270:
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/737sec3.pdf

Fair enough. As I said, I know squat about this stuff. As far as I know, nothing that big has ever landed in Macomb.


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[clenz]

Fans sure came out in full force with it being such a big game

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/b44975f6b69ff76a346f3e8f5db47435.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/18fbd4c65f8938a985fd9aec78716973.jpg

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[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's a good one here, 7-7 with 3:24 left 1Q

If you love offensive line play, this game is for you, O just dominating on both sides.

PS Clenzy, this was better attendance than the Lehigh/Princeton game FWIW

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SAFETY SIGHTING AT PRINCETON!


Dartmouth assistant coaches going bananas here in the booth! Lovett sacked in the end zone and fumbled the ball out of the end zone!

9-7 Dartmouth 13:28 left 1H

[JacksFan40]

Fans sure came out in full force with it being such a big game

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/b44975f6b69ff76a346f3e8f5db47435.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/18fbd4c65f8938a985fd9aec78716973.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Looks like our home playoff games.

[Bison56]

Fans sure came out in full force with it being such a big game

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/b44975f6b69ff76a346f3e8f5db47435.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/18fbd4c65f8938a985fd9aec78716973.jpg

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Wow

[JacksFan40]

It's a good one here, 7-7 with 3:24 left 1Q

If you love offensive line play, this game is for you, O just dominating on both sides.

PS Clenzy, this was better attendance than the Lehigh/Princeton game FWIW
Just looked up Princeton’s attendance totals this year, only drew 1,013 fans for Lehigh, in a 27k seat stadium. Nice to see how much Ivy fans care about their teams, though I guess not playing for anything more than a conference title kills enthusiasm.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A tremendous defensive play by Dartmouth, interception in the end zone to stop a Princeton drive

9-7 Big Green, 8:33 left 1st half

[caribbeanhen]

I'm liking this game, very entertaining .....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm liking this game, very entertaining .....

Me too! Glad I get NBC Sports Philly!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The story here in Princeton right now is the Dartmouth defense. Safety, interception in end zone to stop Princeton drive, and now recovering a Princeton fumble.

9-7 Dartmouth 4:24 left 1H

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I'm liking this game, very entertaining .....

It's fun here in the booth. Every big Dartmouth defensive play the Dartmouth coaches go nuts. The safety was especially fun.

[caribbeanhen]

The story here in Princeton right now is the Dartmouth defense. Safety, interception in end zone to stop Princeton drive, and now recovering a Princeton fumble.

9-7 Dartmouth 4:24 left 1H

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It's fun here in the booth. Every big Dartmouth defensive play the Dartmouth coaches go nuts. The safety was especially fun.

Dartmouth has some beef up front #92 looks like a farm boy

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What a huge turn of events for Princeton! Low snap on the FG, and the FG is a miss! Princeton gets the ball back with 1:16 to play in the half down 9-7.

This is one great football game, and it's not even halftime yet.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Great tough, physical first half of football!

[Go Green]

Dartmouth defense playing as good as can be expected.

We need more from our offense, though...

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only drew 1,013 fans for Lehigh.

Cornell got 1,056 for Penn last night.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dartmouth TE Conner Rempel caught a deleyed TE screen from Gerbino and absolutely trucked the Princeton defender for the 1st down.

9-7 Dartmouth 9:23 left 3Q

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you spend your time watching the O and D lines when you watch football, this has been a terrific game. Such ebb and flow, all the units fighting for the upper hand. It doesn't usually go back and forth like this.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4th and 1, Princeton goes for it. Calls same play they ran to convert and earlier 4th down. This time, Dartmouth stands Lovett up cold. What a stop!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Princeton nails the XP. It's Princeton 14, Dartmouth 9, 6:33 left in the game. That Princeton lead was a team effort: defense (stopped Dartmouth deep), special teams (field position on punts), and offense (that last drive).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A tremendous return past midfield by Princeton! Flag after the play, facemask on Dartmouth tacks on extra yardage!

Feels like Dartmouth is getting gassed here at the end.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4th down. QB draw! Lovett is short! Dartmouth will get the ball back with 3:24 left at their own 22!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Princeton gets the game clinching 1st down! Great game!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Princeton gets the 1st down. What a game! A grinding win by Princeton.

Princeton 14, Dartmouth 9

[Go Green]

If you had told me that we'd hold Princeton to 14 and lose... I would not have believed it.

Tigers defense doesn't get the respect it deserves. We just couldn't do a thing against them in the second half.

Congrats to the Tigers. Hoping that they somehow slip up against Yale or Penn, but I'm not betting on it.

[Ivytalk]

So how big a crowd did this titanic struggle attract?xconfusedx Did the PU undergrads stumble out of their eating clubs before halftime?

[cx500d]

Fans sure came out in full force with it being such a big game

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/b44975f6b69ff76a346f3e8f5db47435.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/18fbd4c65f8938a985fd9aec78716973.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Probably studying for finals

[Go Green]

So how big a crowd did this titanic struggle attract?xconfusedx Did the PU undergrads stumble out of their eating clubs before halftime?

A very disappointing 8,014.

I'm ready to throw in the towel on improving Ivy attendance...

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Fans sure came out in full force with it being such a big game

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/b44975f6b69ff76a346f3e8f5db47435.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/18fbd4c65f8938a985fd9aec78716973.jpg

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Imagine this game in the 1920s. Grantland Rice would be there waxing poetic in the press box.

[ST_Lawson]

Imagine this game in the 1920s. Grantland Rice would be there waxing poetic in the press box.

Back then a game between two unbeaten Ivy League teams this far into the season could very well have decided the national champions.


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[Pard4Life]

Just looked up Princeton’s attendance totals this year, only drew 1,013 fans for Lehigh, in a 27k seat stadium. Nice to see how much Ivy fans care about their teams, though I guess not playing for anything more than a conference title kills enthusiasm.

Somewhat misleading... I went to the game: weather was probably among the most depressing October days. At least PU tells truth about gate numbers unlike many schools.

[Son of Eli]

Just looked up Princeton’s attendance totals this year, only drew 1,013 fans for Lehigh, in a 27k seat stadium. Nice to see how much Ivy fans care about their teams, though I guess not playing for anything more than a conference title kills enthusiasm.


You must have gotten that figure from the ESPN box score, which is incorrect. If you look at the box score on Princeton's official website the attendance for the Lehigh game was over 5,000

[Pard4Life]

A very disappointing 8,014.

I'm ready to throw in the towel on improving Ivy attendance...

That's not good. I was thinking a healthy 15,000 for this game. You've had as many turn out for middling teams vs Penn and Yale in previous years.

Not to hijack this thread but less than 4000 were at Lafayette today. Can't recall that happening for a non-weather impacted game ever, even vs Georgetown.

[Go Green]

That's not good. I was thinking a healthy 15,000 for this game.

.

Theories on the Ivy Board is that the 8K was just paid attendance.

Princeton let kids in free. And there were a lot of them.

And just looking at some of the pictures--it seemed like over 10K.

[Sader87]

Attendance has mostly cratered in Northeast FCS football....a crowd undah 10K at Holy Cross was considered a "poorly attended" game not all that long ago. That Dartmouth at Princeton can't crack 10K does not bode well moving forward.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This was the scene on the field after the win

https://twitter.com/LFN/status/1058814719635701760

Here's my recap:

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/physical-battle-of-fcs-unbeatens-ends-with-princeton-topping-dartmouth-14-9/

On the attendance, I felt like it was a pretty good turnout and atmosphere, all things considered. Maybe 8k to 10k there overall. What is missing from these games is undergrads.

[citdog]

This was the scene on the field after the win

https://twitter.com/LFN/status/1058814719635701760

Here's my recap:

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/physical-battle-of-fcs-unbeatens-ends-with-princeton-topping-dartmouth-14-9/

On the attendance, I felt like it was a pretty good turnout and atmosphere, all things considered. Maybe 8k to 10k there overall. What is missing from these games is undergrads.

I know you couldn't afford to attend because you have lost so much money in the stock market because of Trump and the economy sucks so bad because of Trump...

[Ivytalk]

I know you couldn't afford to attend because you have lost so much money in the stock market because of Trump and the economy sucks so bad because of Trump...
Well, look who’s here! How’s the used-car business, Kevin?

[DFW HOYA]

Attendance has mostly cratered in Northeast FCS football....a crowd undah 10K at Holy Cross was considered a "poorly attended" game not all that long ago. That Dartmouth at Princeton can't crack 10K does not bode well moving forward.

How was it promoted? Ads on TV, billboards along Route 1, social media? None of the above?

One cannot expect people to suddenly show up at the ticket booths these days. Why should they? It's a fact that non-affiliated fans show up when they surmise the game is worth their time and money, and features the best football out there. Nothing about the Ivy or Patriot League sends that message to the casual sports fan, which is why a grand total of 1,056 people showed up for a nationally televised game between Penn and Cornell and three PL home games averaged less than 3,600.

https://cornellbigred.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=27978

[JSUSoutherner]

I know you couldn't afford to attend because you have lost so much money in the stock market because of Trump and the economy sucks so bad because of Trump...

I'd suggest you cut the poli ****.

[Son of Eli]

The Ivy League is now rated the 3rd strongest FCS Conference behind only The MVC and the CAA

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/fcs/ratings?c=1

[JSUSoutherner]

The Ivy League is now rated the 3rd strongest FCS Conference behind only The MVC and the CAA

You sure you guys aren't as good as the SEC?

[Ivytalk]

You sure you guys aren't as good as the SEC?
Intellectually, yes...xnodx

[Son of Eli]

You sure you guys aren't as good as the SEC?

Well, it’s getting closer. Princeton (86) is rated higher than Arkansas (91) by Sagarin. Can’t remember a time before now when an Ivy League team was rated higher than an SEC team.

[Sader87]

I kind of find it hard to believe, as good as Princeton is this year, that they are bettah overall than Arkansas.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I kind of find it hard to believe, as good as Princeton is this year, that they are bettah overall than Arkansas.

Watch the highlights of North Texas boat-racing Arkansas and you'll change your mind.

Even Vandy is better than the Razorbacks this year.

[Go...gate]

I doubt it. I've been asking that question since the 1950s when Dick Kazmaier was running wild for the Tigers. The Ivies don't seem to budge on this issue.

Agreed.

[Go...gate]

Probably studying for finals

They were on break this week. Classes resume tomorrow.