Has the FCS become boring?

[Mattymc727]

Perhaps I'm not seeing straight due to my usual favorite finally underperforming this season, but it seems to me more than just this season. I've become more apathetic to the FCS over the last few seasons and I'm wondering if its due to a few reasons?

Lack of parity? NDSU has certainly taken any hopes and dreams away for most programs
Lack of talent? Seems like less and less top talent play in the FCS as a whole? I could be wrong, but it seems the FCS superstars of today aren't as interesting as the FCS superstars of days past
changing of the guard? Some of the old powerhouses that might have challenged NDSU have either moved on the FBS or fallen off track. Montana, UD, GSU, App State, UNI et al don't seem to have the talent they used to.

Anyone else feel like me?

[katss07]

No! The FCS is as fun as ever. Sure, NDSU is great but their reign will end like all dynasties do. This season is much more “wide open” IMO. There are new teams competing at a high level like we haven’t seen in a while, if ever. (KSU, ETSU, Idaho St, UCD, UIW, SEMO, ect.) IMO, that makes it fun.

Even though Sam is a weak bubble team with a minimal shot at the playoffs, I still enjoy the subdivision.

[Bison56]

Perhaps I'm not seeing straight due to my usual favorite finally underperforming this season, but it seems to me more than just this season. I've become more apathetic to the FCS over the last few seasons and I'm wondering if its due to a few reasons?

Lack of parity? NDSU has certainly taken any hopes and dreams away for most programs
Lack of talent? Seems like less and less top talent play in the FCS as a whole? I could be wrong, but it seems the FCS superstars of today aren't as interesting as the FCS superstars of days past
changing of the guard? Some of the old powerhouses that might have challenged NDSU have either moved on the FBS or fallen off track. Montana, UD, GSU, App State, UNI et al don't seem to have the talent they used to.

Anyone else feel like me?

No

[woffordgrad94]

I don’t think so. NDSU winning games and championships is very predictable right now, but this has been the case in the past with teams like Appalachian State and Georgia Southern. There are still a lot of great games and the battles to see who gets to lose to the likes of James Madison and NDSU are still very interesting. Games like Wofford-Samford this week hold quite a bit of intrigue, as do the other games on the game of the week thread

[Reign of Terrier]

I'd say it's more boring in the playoffs.

NDSU will keep winning until they don't but for now the novelty of their dynasty has worn off. Their dynasty and win percentage is really unprecedented. It's the stuff that blue blood homers (App, Montana, GSU, etc) thought of all stripes (wrongly) thought their team was capable of in the late 2000s.

My team isn't good enough to win a national title this year. At least if they are I don't see it yet. Still, what lured me to the FCS was that little stretch between 2008 and 2010 where different teams won it and there was a lot of parity.

Not so anymore and that's kind of boring to me. As a fan I'm now satisfied with Wofford winning the conference and advancing anywhere past the quarterfinals is amazing. But I don't see us or most other teams beating NDSU

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[MR. CHICKEN]

.....MAY BE YAWNIN'....IN FARGO.........BUT DUH CHASE IS ON......FROM ALL UH FCS......TA ASPIRE.......TA BIZONSSSSS.....RARE AIR.........BRAWK!

[DFW HOYA]

One concern: entire geographical areas of the subdivision are not competitive.

The entire Northeast comes to mind. So too the Southland, which used to be one of the subdivision's strongest areas. Add in the MEAC/SWAC falling off the map, and it would be easy to conclude that it's only three conferences (MVFC, Big Sky, and the southern branch of the CAA) which will even compete in the playoffs.

[downbythebeach]

I can say as an NEC fan we are better than ever so that is a positive. I go to SFU games and there are full stands and a gameday atmosphere. This didn't exist 15 years ago.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Absolutely! FCS was far more interesting when I really started fallowing the subdivision on a national level. The NDSU dynasty has really destroyed many programs chances to elevate themselves. I know many people like to have something to chase but the reality is no one is closing the gap except MAYBE JMU. Even so, the Dukes really aren't, or even close, to being on NDSU's level imo. As a whole the gap between NDSU and the rest of FCS is wider now than It was in 6 or 7 years ago. That's not good. There have been dominant programs in the past, App State, YSU, Marshall and GSU come to mind, but they never had a stranglehold on the subdivision like NDSU has now.

I also favored the 16 team playoff much more. The 24 team playoff allows for far too many participation trophies. There's simply too many games/teams taking up space.

I've been fortunate enough to attend games at NDSU, JMU Montana, Montana State, Delaware, UNH etc over the years. Those experiences never get boring...

[Go Green]

One concern: entire geographical areas of the subdivision are not competitive.

The entire Northeast comes to mind.

Yes- it's been a challenge for Dartmouth to find teams who can hang with us.

[Professor]

Absolutely! FCS was far more interesting when I really started fallowing the subdivision on a national level. The NDSU dynasty has really destroyed many programs chances to elevate themselves. I know many people like to have something to chase but the reality is no one is closing the gap except MAYBE JMU. Even so, the Dukes really aren't, or even close, to being on NDSU's level imo. As a whole the gap between NDSU and the rest of FCS is wider now than It was in 6 or 7 years ago. That's not good. There have been dominant programs in the past, App State, YSU, Marshall and GSU come to mind, but they never had a stranglehold on the subdivision like NDSU has now.

I also favored the 16 team playoff much more. The 24 team playoff allows for far too many participation trophies. There's simply too many games/teams taking up space.

I've been fortunate enough to attend games at NDSU, JMU Montana, Montana State, Delaware, UNH etc over the years. Those experiences never get boring...

I agree

[Bisonator]

Boring? Football isn't boring!

Maybe tiddly winks is more your game.

[Bison56]

Absolutely! FCS was far more interesting when I really started fallowing the subdivision on a national level. The NDSU dynasty has really destroyed many programs chances to elevate themselves. I know many people like to have something to chase but the reality is no one is closing the gap except MAYBE JMU. Even so, the Dukes really aren't, or even close, to being on NDSU's level imo. As a whole the gap between NDSU and the rest of FCS is wider now than It was in 6 or 7 years ago. That's not good. There have been dominant programs in the past, App State, YSU, Marshall and GSU come to mind, but they never had a stranglehold on the subdivision like NDSU has now.

I also favored the 16 team playoff much more. The 24 team playoff allows for far too many participation trophies. There's simply too many games/teams taking up space.

I've been fortunate enough to attend games at NDSU, JMU Montana, Montana State, Delaware, UNH etc over the years. Those experiences never get boring...

Really, how does NDSU stop other teams from elevating themselves?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Really, how does NDSU stop other teams from elevating themselves?

Because some schools ceiling at the FCS level is only so high. The vast majority of FCS (a great program like Delaware has 1 National Title) always relied on the "stars to align" type of season in order to break through. The top programs had maybe 3-4 teams a decade capable of winning a title. NDSU has made it that you need to field a top tier FBS type program at the FCS level in order to compete. That's simply not feasible for 95+% (hell, 99%) of FCS because that's not the mission.

[walliver]

The FCS Champion will most likely be NDSU.
The CFP Champion will most likely be either Alabama or Clemson.
I wouldn't bet against the Patriots (as much as I hate them) winning the Super Bowl.

I have rarely been particularly excited about FCS as a whole. During the season I worry about Wofford and then the SoCon. I'll worry about the post-season when it arrives.

It all becomes boring when your team isn't playing well.

[JacksFan40]

Yes and no. I’ve gotten tired of NDSU winning titles, of course I was tired of it after the 1st one but I also am excited to see what SDSU does each season. Eventually either NDSU will run off for the FBS or the dynasty will collapse, and they’ll be stuck in limbo of not being a bad team but not being a championship contender like Montana. I’m still excited for this season with new powers like Idaho State and UC Davis making their case.

[JacksFan40]

The FCS Champion will most likely be NDSU.
The CFP Champion will most likely be either Alabama or Clemson.
I wouldn't bet against the Patriots (as much as I hate them) winning the Super Bowl.

I have rarely been particularly excited about FCS as a whole. During the season I worry about Wofford and then the SoCon. I'll worry about the post-season when it arrives.

It all becomes boring when your team isn't playing well.
The FBS is Alabama’s to lose, I don’t know how someone can beat a team of 5 Star players.

[PaladinFan]

The FCS Champion will most likely be NDSU.
The CFP Champion will most likely be either Alabama or Clemson.
I wouldn't bet against the Patriots (as much as I hate them) winning the Super Bowl.

I have rarely been particularly excited about FCS as a whole. During the season I worry about Wofford and then the SoCon. I'll worry about the post-season when it arrives.

It all becomes boring when your team isn't playing well.

College football at the D1 level is suffering from the same problem. The "field" simply isn't competitive with the favorite.

It is unlikely that any team in the country can beat Alabama. Even assuming a team manages to do that, Alabama still makes the final four and likely wins the title. Last year they lost one game, didn't play in the SEC title game, and still won the national championship.

Same story with NDSU. Even if they lose a game, its hard to keep them from repeating. You essentially have to rely on two different teams to beat them in the same season, which we really haven't seen as a possibility.

At some point, someone's gotta do what Furman did in 2001 in the post season - go into a tough venue and win a football game.

[World]

Yes- it's been a challenge for Dartmouth to find teams who can hang with us.

Funny, but some of the folks at Old Nassau were saying the same thing

This Saturday will be some game, eh?

[PaladinFan]

The FBS is Alabama’s to lose, I don’t know how someone can beat a team of 5 Star players.

I say this as a fan of the SEC. Most of my family attended either Auburn or Georgia. Alabama is so much better than their competition. I think they'll beat LSU by a few scores. They will probably win by a couple scores against Georgia in the SEC title game.

I really think the only team that will stay on the field with them is Clemson. Both of those schools have just developed into death stars, accumulating essentially any player they want from around the country.

[Bisonator]

The FCS Champion will most likely be NDSU.
The CFP Champion will most likely be either Alabama or Clemson.
I wouldn't bet against the Patriots (as much as I hate them) winning the Super Bowl.

I have rarely been particularly excited about FCS as a whole. During the season I worry about Wofford and then the SoCon. I'll worry about the post-season when it arrives.

It all becomes boring when your team isn't playing well.
This is spot on except there will come a time when another program takes over for a run. It's inevitable. Nothing stopping other programs from putting their resources to work to improve their recruiting and development of players. JMU and SDSU seem to be doing it. Everyone loses interest when their program sucks. That's life.

[Bisonator]

College football at the D1 level is suffering from the same problem. The "field" simply isn't competitive with the favorite.

It is unlikely that any team in the country can beat Alabama. Even assuming a team manages to do that, Alabama still makes the final four and likely wins the title. Last year they lost one game, didn't play in the SEC title game, and still won the national championship.

Same story with NDSU. Even if they lose a game, its hard to keep them from repeating. You essentially have to rely on two different teams to beat them in the same season, which we really haven't seen as a possibility.

At some point, someone's gotta do what Furman did in 2001 in the post season - go into a tough venue and win a football game.
Yep, JMU did it in 2016 and nearly won again last year in Frisco.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Alabama's run, while dominant as hell, still isn't on NDSU's level. I think the Bison's odds of winning the title this year are still considerably higher than the Tide's. 'Bama still has to face 3 damn good teams on a neutral field in order to win the title. The Bison only have to win 1. Even then, no one in FCS can compare to NDSU's traveling fan base.

[Sycamore62]

I think its boring from about late monday to thursday night.

[PaladinFan]

Alabama's run, while dominant as hell, still isn't on NDSU's level. I think the Bison's odds of winning the title this year are still considerably higher than the Tide's. 'Bama still has to face 3 damn good teams on a neutral field in order to win the title. The Bison only have to win 1. Even then, no one in FCS can compare to NDSU's traveling fan base.

NDSU's fans also have to travel to essentially one playoff game - Frisco. Makes life easier.

It's a bit like App State was in the mid-2000s. They are nails at home, and someone's just gotta go in there and beat them. I often said that App State would probably have looked a lot more pedestrian if you could get them off their daggum mountain in the post season. They rarely (never?) had to hit the road in the playoffs other than to take the relatively short drive to Chattanooga.

Some teams are just incredibly tough at home. When Furman went into Paulson Stadium in 2001, GSU had won 39 straight home games and was 28-0 at home in the post season. There probably never was a more intimidating playoff venue at this level. Someone's just gotta do it.

[centennial]

Alabama's run, while dominant as hell, still isn't on NDSU's level. I think the Bison's odds of winning the title this year are still considerably higher than the Tide's. 'Bama still has to face 3 damn good teams on a neutral field in order to win the title. The Bison only have to win 1. Even then, no one in FCS can compare to NDSU's traveling fan base.
It takes one bad game from the QB, or the coach, or a couple of unfortunate bounces. UNI just this season was beating NDSU in the 3rd quarter.

It's not like NDSU is as strong as Alabama and rest of the FCS is SWAC level.

No one is stopping the rest of the FCS to get better at football. Neither is NDSU recruiting better than a low level G5 team. There is an easy chance for parity.

[Thundar]

NDSU's fans also have to travel to essentially one playoff game - Frisco. Makes life easier.

It's a bit like App State was in the mid-2000s. They are nails at home, and someone's just gotta go in there and beat them. I often said that App State would probably have looked a lot more pedestrian if you could get them off their daggum mountain in the post season. They rarely (never?) had to hit the road in the playoffs other than to take the relatively short drive to Chattanooga.

but..thats the reward for winning

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It takes one bad game from the QB, or the coach, or a couple of unfortunate bounces. UNI just this season was beating NDSU in the 3rd quarter.

It's not like NDSU is as strong as Alabama and rest of the FCS is SWAC level.

No one is stopping the rest of the FCS to get better at football. Neither is NDSU recruiting better than a low level G5 team. There is an easy chance for parity.

Sure there are! It's administrations, faculty, people working at the state capital, fellow in-state institutions, league rules, other athletic teams taking priority, etc. Like I said before, NDSU is operating a quality FBS program at the FCS level. It's simply not feasible to elevate a program to their level for the VAST majority of schools in FCS. The fact that NDSU has done it under 2 coaches is all the more impressive. What will happen to JMU when Houston ultimately decides to move on? JMU is historically a bit of a "peaks and valley" program, poor man's GSU. The fact that NDSU is on pace for 7 in 8 without blinking is insane!! Mount Union's best run was 6 in 7.

If parity was easy we'd have it by now....

[SU DOG]

As for exciting players in FCS, we(SAMFORD) currently have our share. Our QB has already set numerous passing records, and Devlin Hodges is chasing Steve 'Air' McNair's all-time passing record. We have a WR in Kelvin McKnight who is incredible, and a DE, Ahmad Gooden that wrecks havoc on opposing QBs. All 3 are being scouted by the NFL. Now, I don't want to get into comparisons with other players, nor evaluate their chances of playing in the NFL, but I will say that all 3 could easily be starters in the SEC. Also, all three of these kids signed with Samford out of HS, and none were xfers. My only argument, however, is that YES the FCS has plenty of exciting players. I know that there are MANY others out there across the land that are very exciting. and will play professionally somewhere.

[Big Dawg]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.

[CappinHard]

As an SDSU fan, I can confidently say no, the FCS has not become boring. However, that's because my team has become consistently good and is seemingly the only team outside of JMU that has a shot at beating NDSU on a yearly basis in recent years.

Ultimately, I would like to see the bottom half of the G5 join with the FCS. That would definitely make the FCS exciting. Tbh, the bottom 1/3 or 1/4 of FCS should be D2 at that point, but I know most schools won't want to give up D1 status.

Seriously though, what would have to happen for the bottom half of the G5 to be alright with being FCS? What is the big benefit to them being FBS? Is it really the bowl money?

[SUPharmacist]

Sure there are! It's administrations, faculty, people working at the state capital, fellow in-state institutions

Most of those factors worked against NDSU when they made the move up.

There is definitely a disparity in resources at the FCS level, but that is true at many levels. Can every program compete truly? No, but there is a sizeable group that is a mix of the state schools at this level and the privates that have the resources (whether they choose to commit them is on them) that could compete.

Each school has to decide what makes sense to them. The answer will be different for each program and that is just fine. However, if top programs are following the rules of the level they are in you cannot complain much.

It would be great to have more parity, and yes it can be boring. As others have said the NDSU dynasty will not last forever. We will see who comes next.

[Sader87]

I like the level. In general, most teams are representative of their school's student body. The playoffs are a bore though.

[Reign of Terrier]

Because some schools ceiling at the FCS level is only so high. The vast majority of FCS (a great program like Delaware has 1 National Title) always relied on the "stars to align" type of season in order to break through. The top programs had maybe 3-4 teams a decade capable of winning a title. NDSU has made it that you need to field a top tier FBS type program at the FCS level in order to compete. That's simply not feasible for 95+% (hell, 99%) of FCS because that's not the mission.

This. Having watched FCS football since 2003, but with great concentration since about 2007, the "stars align" argument is compelling. In my opinion, Wofford had teams in 2003, 2007, and 2010 that could beat *anyone* on any given Saturday. But the stars did not align. They aligned for some teams, but not us, and that's part of the game. Remember, it was a huge deal when App State won 3 in a row. Heck, when Richmond won their championship, they throttled App State the year after App State throttled them. There was crazy turnover in the subdivision at the top between 2008-2010, but since NDSU's dynasty has taken over, not so much. Much like the NFL, the parity at the level didn't preclude a repeat, but the three-peat had only happened twice.

There's a safe case to be made that Wofford is more talented today than we were ten years ago (former players say that), but at this rate I don't think we'll do better than beat the spread against NDSU.


Alabama's run, while dominant as hell, still isn't on NDSU's level. I think the Bison's odds of winning the title this year are still considerably higher than the Tide's. 'Bama still has to face 3 damn good teams on a neutral field in order to win the title. The Bison only have to win 1. Even then, no one in FCS can compare to NDSU's traveling fan base.

Yeah, NDSU isn't the Bama of FCS, Bama is just the closest thing to the NDSU of FBS. And even then, Bama faces a challenge in the playoffs every year. NDSU not so mcuh.


NDSU's fans also have to travel to essentially one playoff game - Frisco. Makes life easier.

It's a bit like App State was in the mid-2000s. They are nails at home, and someone's just gotta go in there and beat them. I often said that App State would probably have looked a lot more pedestrian if you could get them off their daggum mountain in the post season. They rarely (never?) had to hit the road in the playoffs other than to take the relatively short drive to Chattanooga.

Some teams are just incredibly tough at home. When Furman went into Paulson Stadium in 2001, GSU had won 39 straight home games and was 28-0 at home in the post season. There probably never was a more intimidating playoff venue at this level. Someone's just gotta do it. I remember when it was a huge deal that App State had to go on the road to Montana (2009) and when Montana had to go on the road to play James Madison (2008). That was fun football to watch.


Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.

On one level, I agree with this. Arguably, the subdivision has gotten so boring that the best strategy is just to watch your team compete for a conference title and everything else in the playoffs is gravy. But it didn't used to be this way.

[KPSUL]

No point in addressing the NDSU domination, it is what it is, and of course it has become a negative factor for everyone but NDSU fans. However, I think other than that, this season has been one of the most interesting in recent memory. Starting at home, the CAA has become more competitive up and down the conference with some previous weaker team turning their fortunes around. For years the CAA coaches and league officials have repeatedly made the statement that any conference team can beat any other team on any given Saturday. But that is closer to being true now more than ever. Discounting NDSU, the MVFC seems to have more parity this season as well. We've seen the emergence of some new players in the Big Sky (Weber, UC Davis and Idaho St,) over the past two seasons as well as ETSU in SoCon, and Kennesaw in the Big South.
The Ivy League seems to be capitalizing on very successful recruiting and producing some quality teams - even Columbia is winning games on a regular basis now. The Celebration Bowl has been a nice addition for the HBCU conferences.
On the negative side of parity and competitiveness is the emergence of Colgate as the sole dominant force in the Patriot League - whatever Colgate is doing right, the other PL teams would be smart to emulate.

[KPSUL]

There is an easy chance for parity.

If it was easy, others would be doing it!

[IBleedYellow]

For the next two seasons it's going to be everyone chasing JMU, just sayin'.

[SUPharmacist]

Yeah, NDSU isn't the Bama of FCS, Bama is just the closest thing to the NDSU of FBS. And even then, Bama faces a challenge in the playoffs every year. NDSU not so mcuh

Most years NDSU has had a challenging game. Title game was close last year, they lost to JMU the year before. Title game against ISUr could've went either way, ditto the second matchup against GSU and the 27-24 victory over SDSU.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No point in addressing the NDSU domination, it is what it is, and of course it has become a negative factor for everyone but NDSU fans. However, I think other than that, this season has been one of the most interesting in recent memory. Starting at home, the CAA has become more competitive up and down the conference with some previous weaker team turning their fortunes around. For years the CAA coaches and league officials have repeatedly made the statement that any conference team can beat any other team on any given Saturday. But that is closer to being true now more than ever. Discounting NDSU, the MVFC seems to have more parity this season as well. We've seen the emergence of some new players in the Big Sky (Weber, UC Davis and Idaho St,) over the past two seasons as well as ETSU in SoCon, and Kennesaw in the Big South.
The Ivy League seems to be capitalizing on very successful recruiting and producing some quality teams - even Columbia is winning games on a regular basis now. The Celebration Bowl has been a nice addition for the HBCU conferences.
On the negative side of parity and competitiveness is the emergence of Colgate as the sole dominant force in the Patriot League - whatever Colgate is doing right, the other PL teams would be smart to emulate.

Lehigh still owns Colgate this decade. Colgate has been a dominant force for 1 year. The Mountain Hawks will be back once the coaching situation is taken care of after this year. The PL has potential but the league has to lift some of the restrictions. I think Colgate is legitimately good and a home game could get them a playoff win but they're still not among the true contenders. Mainly because they haven't played anyone. The Army game will give some indication of their ceiling heading into the playoffs. The two recent really good PL teams, Lehigh '11 and Fordham '13, had much better OOC schedules.

[Reign of Terrier]

FWIW, I think next year is the year the Socon elevates its play. We have some good OOC scheduled. Chattanooga should be improved (I think they finish no worse than 7-4 this year), as will Furman and ETSU. Wofford will be Wofford. Mercer and the Citadel and maybe Western Carolina will continue to be competitive. Samford is a question mark.

Maybe next year is the year things take a step back to normal with NDSU losing some leadership and other conferences stepping up. From what little I know of the Southland, I think you'll see some teams take a step in the right direction as well.

[Bison56]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.

I watch as much FCS football on Saturday as I can, cant get enough.

[Professor Chaos]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.


I watch as much FCS football on Saturday as I can, cant get enough.
I think a lot of people who post here are the same as Bison56.... then again those of use who post here probably aren't a very good representation of the average FCS fan. xlolx

[UNHWildcat18]

I think overall the FCS's popularity is increasing. As I've states in another thread, I think the FCS needs to stop expanding, and if they do require a certain level of attendance, and a conference invite. I'm sorry but Merrimack joining the NEC with their 3k "stadium" Isn't going to add anything for the league. This is DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL. I know I sound like a bama fan being like really NC-Charlotte with their 15k stadium is FBS...............

I guess in reality teams in the FCS need to make a certain commitment, or drop down/drop football. Only way the league is going to get better in terms of play/popularity.

Also Ivies need to join the playoffs

[AggiePride]

No. Every year I am still excited.

This is as someone who participated in our 37 straight winning seasons, only to suddenly have their beloved program fall into a pit of dispair; we had all the expectations in the world, enormous undergraduate school rivaling any FBS program, new stadium in place, storied history of success, ready to take on the FCS.... only to inexplicably fall to a place the program never has. The last 10+ years have been miserable, a proverbial lost decade.

But every year I have hope that we will turn a corner, and rise up to where we always anticipated. Felt the spark in 2017, and here we are in 2018. Any program can turn a corner and build momentum, never lose faith.

[dgtw]

I watch one FCS game a week and FBS after that. I have zero interest in FCS outside of Jax State. I will check other scores but that’s about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MR. CHICKEN]

I watch one FCS game a week and FBS after that. I have zero interest in FCS outside of Jax State. I will check other scores but that’s about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.....WHAA...ARE YOU HERE....xconfusedx....YOUSE GOT 2600 + POSTS......WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DISCUSSIN'......CHILLI WHIFF BEANS.......xconfusedx.......BRAWK!

[Bison56]

.....WHAA...ARE YOU HERE....xconfusedx....YOUSE GOT 2600 + POSTS......WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DISCUSSIN'......CHILLI WHIFF BEANS.......xconfusedx.......BRAWK!

I was going to ask the same thing, Jax State hasn't been good enough since 2010 to make that many posts about them.

[SU DOG]

I watch one FCS game a week and FBS after that. I have zero interest in FCS outside of Jax State. I will check other scores but that’s about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then I hope you are not a AGS Poll voter.

[Professor Chaos]

It takes one bad game from the QB, or the coach, or a couple of unfortunate bounces. UNI just this season was beating NDSU in the 3rd quarter.

It's not like NDSU is as strong as Alabama and rest of the FCS is SWAC level.

No one is stopping the rest of the FCS to get better at football. Neither is NDSU recruiting better than a low level G5 team. There is an easy chance for parity.


If it was easy, others would be doing it!
Yeah, I don't know if I'd say easy but what I would say is that it's not complicated. I don't think NDSU's recruiting classes are that much better than the other top FCS teams. Where I think NDSU separates themselves is retention and development of those players. Retention does start on the recruiting trail and the coaches' abilities to recognize not only talent but a player who's willing to buy into the system and stick with it. It continues with strong leadership from the upperclassmen once those recruits get into the program. Development is pretty much all about who's willing to work and how hard they're willing to work. The remarkable thing to me about NDSU is how they've managed to fend off complacency and I've always said that their head strength & conditioning coach Jim Kramer is the main reason for that. Having an elite strength & conditioning program is just as important as having an elite coaching staff at any college football program IMO.

I've talked to former Bison players about it and I can definitely tell you from those conversations that what they did was far from easy... but it also wasn't some magic formula either.

[Bisonoline]

Perhaps I'm not seeing straight due to my usual favorite finally underperforming this season, but it seems to me more than just this season. I've become more apathetic to the FCS over the last few seasons and I'm wondering if its due to a few reasons?

Lack of parity? NDSU has certainly taken any hopes and dreams away for most programs
Lack of talent? Seems like less and less top talent play in the FCS as a whole? I could be wrong, but it seems the FCS superstars of today aren't as interesting as the FCS superstars of days past
changing of the guard? Some of the old powerhouses that might have challenged NDSU have either moved on the FBS or fallen off track. Montana, UD, GSU, App State, UNI et al don't seem to have the talent they used to.

Anyone else feel like me?

Nope

[KPSUL]

Lehigh still owns Colgate this decade. Colgate has been a dominant force for 1 year. The Mountain Hawks will be back once the coaching situation is taken care of after this year. The PL has potential but the league has to lift some of the restrictions. I think Colgate is legitimately good and a home game could get them a playoff win but they're still not among the true contenders. Mainly because they haven't played anyone. The Army game will give some indication of their ceiling heading into the playoffs. The two recent really good PL teams, Lehigh '11 and Fordham '13, had much better OOC schedules.

I was talking a shorter term than 10 years. This season Colgate is playing on a distinctly different, and higher, level than then the rest of the league. There is bigger margin between Colgate and its conference mates than NDSU and the rest of the MVFC this season. Not sure if you're just trying to bait me with your comment about Colgate not playing anyone, but they played and won a tough game over UNH and beat William and Mary soundly. Both these team are having below par seasons, but both will end up with several CAA conference wins and would stomp any other PL team. Finally, the Army game will be in no way be the definitive measure of how good this Colgate team is. This is one of the best Army teams in many years, in fact a legitimate FBS team that should be expected to win by several touchdowns.

[Reign of Terrier]

Yeah, I don't know if I'd say easy but what I would say is that it's not complicated. I don't think NDSU's recruiting classes are that much better than the other top FCS teams. Where I think NDSU separates themselves is retention and development of those players. Retention does start on the recruiting trail and the coaches' abilities to recognize not only talent but a player who's willing to buy into the system and stick with it. It continues with strong leadership from the upperclassmen once those recruits get into the program. Development is pretty much all about who's willing to work and how hard they're willing to work. The remarkable thing to me about NDSU is how they've managed to fend off complacency and I've always said that their head strength & conditioning coach Jim Kramer is the main reason for that. Having an elite strength & conditioning program is just as important as having an elite coaching staff at any college football program IMO.

I've talked to former Bison players about it and I can definitely tell you from those conversations that what they did was far from easy... but it also wasn't some magic formula either.

I don't think you can point to one thing that NDSU does better than everyone else. It's a confluence of factors. If you look at their roster, it's not like it's littered with gems from all over the country. They are talented, but are they more talented? I think if we were to go with the "more talented" hypothesis (at least compared to other top tier programs in the FCS) you would have to assume 1) the geographic area they recruit is under-rated, 2) that they consistently beat P5 schools for talent in that area, or 3) you would see more geographic variation in their roster. I think 2 is possible or likely, but 1 and 3 to me seem less likely.

It's hard to figure out with NDSU, because I think the development/retention hypothesis is the strongest (winning a lot attracts players and coaches), while the homefield advantage in the playoffs probably adds something to it as well.

That is to say: maybe NDSU doesn't do so well on the road in the playoffs or if a couple coaches leave. I'm not saying it's certainly the case, but I think it's possible.

[Thumper 76]

Perhaps I'm not seeing straight due to my usual favorite finally underperforming this season, but it seems to me more than just this season. I've become more apathetic to the FCS over the last few seasons and I'm wondering if its due to a few reasons?

Lack of parity? NDSU has certainly taken any hopes and dreams away for most programs
Lack of talent? Seems like less and less top talent play in the FCS as a whole? I could be wrong, but it seems the FCS superstars of today aren't as interesting as the FCS superstars of days past
changing of the guard? Some of the old powerhouses that might have challenged NDSU have either moved on the FBS or fallen off track. Montana, UD, GSU, App State, UNI et al don't seem to have the talent they used to.

Anyone else feel like me?
No, I really think a lot of it has to do with your team having a real bad year after a decade plus of being a good to really good team. It’s hard to be excited without that. The excitement of who will be in the playoffs due to potential matchups with your team is gone, so excitement about national scores is probably dampened quite a bit, especially when you add in what many consider to be a forgone conclusion on the eventual champion. That’s just my $.02



Because some schools ceiling at the FCS level is only so high. The vast majority of FCS (a great program like Delaware has 1 National Title) always relied on the "stars to align" type of season in order to break through. The top programs had maybe 3-4 teams a decade capable of winning a title. NDSU has made it that you need to field a top tier FBS type program at the FCS level in order to compete. That's simply not feasible for 95+% (hell, 99%) of FCS because that's not the mission.
It’s not possible for a lot of schools because it’s not as much of a priority. Bemoaning the fact that one school has decided to invest more into their program is, well not a mindset I ever want to have in life in general let alone football. There are many schools with more resources they could pour into their programs than NDSU, they aren’t some monster rich school like you see in Alabama and their ilk. Ndsu has had to cut their budget for the school and athletic department recently due to state funding issues, like many places across the country. Their fans pony up the money generally to offset it in fundraising many times, but that being said there’s plenty of FCS schools with endowments and a money pool in their alumni base that DWARFS what NDSU has available. The universities all make their decisions on how invested they want to be and what works for them. There are schools out there who ARE investing to compete with ndsu ALA SDSU and JMU, and you can see the results on the field. Even with the success SDSU has prior to the new stadium, they wouldn’t be half as competitive as they are today without investing in their facilities and things like FCOA to compete for championships, and it’s shows with their steady growth in success in the playoffs and even attendance. To say it’s not fair what ndsu does is just a lazy and convenient excuse for some schools to use. But that’s generally what separates the haves from the have nots IMO. That mission you talk about is a choice that is imposed on themselves, NOT by ndsu, as much as I hate them. If a school isn’t willing to go as far as NDSU to be good, then that’s their problem, not ndsu’s.


For the next two seasons it's going to be everyone chasing JMU, just sayin'.

Yeah, not to get too far ahead of ourselves into next year, but ndsu loses A LOT from this team. They have something like 22-23 seniors, a very senior heavy defense, and lose Stick. That’s going to be a lot to overcome. I know that happened after 2013 but there was a bonafide heir apparent in the wings at qb. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if Klieman gets a very attractive offer and takes it. It’s happens all the time where a coach capitalizes on a stupendous class and gets a great gig. TO BE CLEAR, they won’t drop off the map, but next year is going to be very, very interesting across the board for FCS IMO. I think a lot of people see what’s happening this year and feel like it’s never going to stop, ever. And I get those feels man, as a SDSU fan, this has been an eternity. But, next year is next year, we gotta get through this one first. AGS baby.


Absolutely! FCS was far more interesting when I really started fallowing the subdivision on a national level. The NDSU dynasty has really destroyed many programs chances to elevate themselves. I know many people like to have something to chase but the reality is no one is closing the gap except MAYBE JMU. Even so, the Dukes really aren't, or even close, to being on NDSU's level imo. As a whole the gap between NDSU and the rest of FCS is wider now than It was in 6 or 7 years ago. That's not good. There have been dominant programs in the past, App State, YSU, Marshall and GSU come to mind, but they never had a stranglehold on the subdivision like NDSU has now.

I also favored the 16 team playoff much more. The 24 team playoff allows for far too many participation trophies. There's simply too many games/teams taking up space.

I've been fortunate enough to attend games at NDSU, JMU Montana, Montana State, Delaware, UNH etc over the years. Those experiences never get boring...
The gap is wider RIGHT NOW. This is an all time team for ndsu this year it appears. That being said, like I stated above, they lose A LOT from this years team. They won’t be bad, and likely will be in the thick of the natty hunt, but I fully expect next year to be wide open nationally as well as in the MVFC, more than ever before. Especially the MVFC. You have two of the fixtures at the top of the conference losing a bunch of key seniors as well as Peyton finalists at qb, it’s anybodies guess as to how that turns out. Don’t get too bummed out about one year that feels non competitive. From a MVFC standpoint, which is very relevant because that’s the score people see when they look at NDSU, it’s been a really weird year. I don’t remember a year where damn near every team was this inconsistent from game to game, or even quarter to quarter. Especially the top teams. They’re all bipolar as hell.

That being said, since you’re obviously a FBS fan first, do you feel the same way about Bama?


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[Professor Chaos]

I don't think you can point to one thing that NDSU does better than everyone else. It's a confluence of factors. If you look at their roster, it's not like it's littered with gems from all over the country. They are talented, but are they more talented? I think if we were to go with the "more talented" hypothesis (at least compared to other top tier programs in the FCS) you would have to assume 1) the geographic area they recruit is under-rated, 2) that they consistently beat P5 schools for talent in that area, or 3) you would see more geographic variation in their roster. I think 2 is possible or likely, but 1 and 3 to me seem less likely.

It's hard to figure out with NDSU, because I think the development/retention hypothesis is the strongest (winning a lot attracts players and coaches), while the homefield advantage in the playoffs probably adds something to it as well.

That is to say: maybe NDSU doesn't do so well on the road in the playoffs or if a couple coaches leave. I'm not saying it's certainly the case, but I think it's possible.
You can throw plenty of complex and not so complex theories out there but I'm sticking with the simple explanation that this guy, more than any player or coach, has been the main man behind the scenes driving the construction and maintenance of the NDSU dynasty: https://gobison.com/staff.aspx?staff=92


Yeah, not to get too far ahead of ourselves into next year, but ndsu loses A LOT from this team. They have something like 22-23 seniors, a very senior heavy defense, and lose Stick. That’s going to be a lot to overcome. I know that happened after 2013 but there was a bonafide heir apparent in the wings at qb. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if Klieman gets a very attractive offer and takes it. It’s happens all the time where a coach capitalizes on a stupendous class and gets a great gig. TO BE CLEAR, they won’t drop off the map, but next year is going to be very, very interesting across the board for FCS IMO. I think a lot of people see what’s happening this year and feel like it’s never going to stop, ever. And I get those feels man, as a SDSU fan, this has been an eternity. But, next year is next year, we gotta get through this one first. AGS baby.
Yep, 24 seniors (although one is redshirting it sounds like). This is a ridiculously veteran team though since there are also 18 juniors (did I mention retention being important???) so they'll have plenty of experience back next year. The schedule next year isn't easy either. OOC they start with a cupcake in Butler but then they have UC Davis, @Delaware, and UND who all look like 2018 playoff teams at this point. Next year will be a lot like 2014 was for the Bison... they lose a tremendous senior class but have a surprisingly big junior class to step up and fill the void. I think in preseason 2014 there was plenty of optimism across the FCS that the guard would be changing and then NDSU beat Iowa St by 20 and there was just a massive "Awww ****!" from the rest of the FCS. Whether the 2019 senior class can do that as well as the 2014 senior class did is TBD but I wouldn't bet against them (obviously).

[MR. CHICKEN]

You can throw plenty of complex and not so complex theories out there but I'm sticking with the simple explanation that this guy, more than any player or coach, has been the main man behind the scenes driving the construction and maintenance of the NDSU dynasty: https://gobison.com/staff.aspx?staff=92


Yep, 24 seniors (although one is redshirting it sounds like). This is a ridiculously veteran team though since there are also 18 juniors (did I mention retention being important???) so they'll have plenty of experience back next year. The schedule next year isn't easy either. OOC they start with a cupcake in Butler but then they have UC Davis, @Delaware, and UND who all look like 2018 playoff teams at this point. Next year will be a lot like 2014 was for the Bison... they lose a tremendous senior class but have a surprisingly big junior class to step up and fill the void. I think in preseason 2014 there was plenty of optimism across the FCS that the guard would be changing and then NDSU beat Iowa St by 20 and there just a massive "Awww ****!" from the rest of the FCS. Whether the 2019 senior class can do that as well as the 2014 senior class did is TBD but I wouldn't bet against them (obviously).


.....AH COUNT 28/29 SENIORS...ON HENS ROSTER..............AWK!

[Silenoz]

I will agree with a lot of the points here, aside from lack of talent. That isn't an issue.


Parity is definitely gonna be a growing problem. Unlike FBS where you at least have a dozen or two programs that are all in with their administrations, with basically unlimited funds, and top tier coaches safely locked up, there are only a handful at this level. Maybe just two. And when Houston is poached or JMU jumps up we may just have one. SDSU, UND and MSU are your best bets to replace them, but that still leaves you with a but tiny number of programs competing at the highest level.

Should everyone "get better"? Sure, that would be great. But it isn't gonna happen for many, many reasons.

[Outsider1]

One concern: entire geographical areas of the subdivision are not competitive.

The entire Northeast comes to mind. So too the Southland, which used to be one of the subdivision's strongest areas. Add in the MEAC/SWAC falling off the map, and it would be easy to conclude that it's only three conferences (MVFC, Big Sky, and the southern branch of the CAA) which will even compete in the playoffs.

Not really, like Katss07 already stated, many teams are actually becoming better, so some conferences and geographical areas are also becoming more interesting. I think the Southland may be able to start recruiting better locally with more teams being attractive enough to HS and JUCO kids. I honestly don't know a lot about other areas, but I think the South is definitely deeper in FCS. Look at North Alabama, KSU, UIW, us, and others... Now, I do think if it is too predictable at the upper playoff brackets, then that could makes less interesting but that also gives incentive.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Yes and no. I’ve gotten tired of NDSU winning titles, of course I was tired of it after the 1st one but I also am excited to see what SDSU does each season. Eventually either NDSU will run off for the FBS or the dynasty will collapse, and they’ll be stuck in limbo of not being a bad team but not being a championship contender like Montana. I’m still excited for this season with new powers like Idaho State and UC Davis making their case.

Montana collapsed due to a bogus sexual assault allegation, that was terribly mishandled by the then leaders of the University, which made a non rational decision to fire the super successful AD and Coach...ever since then we have been chasing our asses with coaching change after coaching change. The university has a new President, new AD, and 3 new coaches since then. Montana didnt just organically die off, we had a nuclear bomb dropped on our heads.

Once Montana gets some consistency back in the program the Griz are geared up in every other facet of a program( more so than almost any school at the FCS level) as far as revenue, fan base, facilities being top notch, all we need is consistency in leadership. Thats what Bobby was brought back to accomplish.

[Silenoz]

Montana collapsed due to a bogus sexual assault allegation, that was terribly mishandled by the then leaders of the University, which made a non rational decision to fire the super successful AD and Coach...ever since then we have been chasing our asses with coaching change after coaching change. The university has a new President, new AD, and 3 new coaches since then. Montana didnt just organically die off, we had a nuclear bomb dropped on our heads.

Once Montana gets some consistency back in the program the Griz are geared up in every other facet of a program( more so than almost any school at the FCS level) as far as revenue, fan base, facilities being top notch, all we need is consistency in leadership. Thats what Bobby was brought back to accomplish.


And when our enrollment is at 7,500 people and we have to start cutting athletics? Bobby and Glenn and Read also didn't have to split the best Montana kids with a competent MSU program. I suspect it is hamstringing both programs.

I also think the effect facilities have on the product on the field is completely overblown. Way more important to have a system that works and has continuity, which creates winning, which creates recruiting, which creates more winning. None of the players that will be signing with EWU and Weber next year give a **** that they're playing in front of 6,000 people in bleachers. They already resigned themselves to that fact when they looked at FCS.

[Thumper 76]

I will agree with a lot of the points here, aside from lack of talent. That isn't an issue.


Parity is definitely gonna be a growing problem. Unlike FBS where you at least have a dozen or two programs that are all in with their administrations, with basically unlimited funds, and top tier coaches safely locked up, there are only a handful at this level. Maybe just two. And when Houston is poached or JMU jumps up we may just have one. SDSU, UND and MSU are your best bets to replace them, but that still leaves you with a but tiny number of programs competing at the highest level.

Should everyone "get better"? Sure, that would be great. But it isn't gonna happen for many, many reasons.

I think part of it is were in kind of a weird transition phase for the whole subdivision in general. Two powerhouse blue bloods left for FBS, and their heir apparent that seemed to be growing into a possible powers in the south left. At the same time you have traditional powers in the west and the Southland in disarray (the Montana’s and McNeese). Add in the drop off at UD, that’s a bunch of funky stuff changing. During that time you’ve had some new teams surge to the top like SDSU, new programs that look like they could be powers but need to grow into it like Kennesaw and the like, and it’s kind of a weird time. Basically I’m saying I agree with you in a very long winded way. Part of the reason the CAA and MVFC are so far ahead of other conferences top to bottom is due to stability right now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Bug South become pretty damn powerful with their new additions, and the Southland appears to be on the rise as well. If Montana and Montana State get their acts together in a couple years I think we’ll have a real competitive landscape nationwide in areas that aren’t right now within 5 years or so. Honestly if the Ivy’s decided to stop being dicks the void of big name blue blood programs were used to gets solved pretty quick IMO, cause I think they would up their game considerably to compete. I think we’re on the verge of what could be some really fun years of FCS I guess is what I’m trying to get at.


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[Hammerhead]

There are lots of really good players on many FCS teams. The majority of NFL teams have a starter on one or both sides of the ball from an FCS team or even a lower division.

Does FCOA come into play since not many schools can dole out that kind of money?

[WestCoastAggie]

There are lots of really good players on many FCS teams. The majority of NFL teams have a starter on one or both sides of the ball from an FCS team or even a lower division.

Does FCOA come into play since not many schools can dole out that kind of money?
Yes.

[ST_Lawson]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.

If we have a home game, I might only catch parts of a few of the other games. If I'm home watching ours on TV, then I'll usually have another game on the computer, and before/after ours is going on, I'll absolutely watch other games. To be fair, it's mostly the MVFC games that I watch, and if they're all done, I'll flip the TV over to a national FBS game if there's an interesting one going on and kinda half pay attention to it while I'm working on starting my "MVFC Week in Review" article. Like others have said though...those of us here are kinda at the high end of the curve for people interested in the FCS.

[BisonTru]

There are lots of really good players on many FCS teams. The majority of NFL teams have a starter on one or both sides of the ball from an FCS team or even a lower division.

Does FCOA come into play since not many schools can dole out that kind of money?

To be fair the FCS has been down on draft picks historically which makes sense considering all the moves to FBS. So I can think you can make the argument the talent is down. However I watch football all the way from 5 yo flag football to the NFL and it’s all entertaining to me.

I really think NDSUs domination is why many fans see it as less entertaining. However looking at this year NDSU returned a lot of talent. Next year after graduation could be a little different although I’m quite entertained with NDSU dominating.


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[Silenoz]

Like others have said though...those of us here are kinda at the high end of the curve for people interested in the FCS.
99% of people I know in Bozeman and Missoula would be incapable of naming the entire Big Sky. Most of them probably couldn't do half. And those are two of the biggest fanbases in FCS

[Reign of Terrier]

99% of people I know in Bozeman and Missoula would be incapable of naming the entire Big Sky. Most of them probably couldn't do half. And those are two of the biggest fanbases in FCS

Wofford probably has a better record and more 10 win seasons than USC does in the last decade (not to mention conference championships). Greenville and Spartanburg County have more people than the entire state of North Dakota.

We can't get more than 5-6,000 of our fans in the seats for a playoff game. We have a damn strong team and Spartanburg doesn't really care. I'm less hard on our alumni base because there are ~20,000 living alumni of varying geographic distribution, age, interest, etc.

[ST_Lawson]

99% of people I know in Bozeman and Missoula would be incapable of naming the entire Big Sky. Most of them probably couldn't do half. And those are two of the biggest fanbases in FCS

Yeah, I think most schools are like that. You could go person to person at a WIU home game (wouldn't take long...not many persons) asking them what division we play in. I'm not even sure the majority would know the right answer...probably half of them would say DII.

[Hammerhead]

99% of people I know in Bozeman and Missoula would be incapable of naming the entire Big Sky. Most of them probably couldn't do half. And those are two of the biggest fanbases in FCS

Are those the fans who go to an outdoor kegger interrupted by a football game?

[Silenoz]

Are those the fans who go to an outdoor kegger interrupted by a football game?

Football fans in other words

Same people who cannot wait for the Super Bowl......'s commercials

[CappinHard]

SDSU, UND and MSU are your best bets to replace them

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

[Silenoz]

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif

State flagship, pushed by NDSU into becoming a top DII program, will be pushed again once they're in the MVFC, just like we saw with SDSU. Hamstrung by a dome and location, but like I iterated earlier, I really don't think that matters much and NDSU has shown it doesn't have to be an impediment. Will it happen? Maybe, maybe not. There certainly isn't any real reason they shouldn't be a top FCS program. YSU is on the ropes, SIU has disappeared, UNI has slid into permanent mediocrity, etc. There is a lot of opportunity in the Valley, and recruiting should receive a large boost as they escape the far flung Sky.

Plus, again, there are a severe lack of candidates to choose from. Weber State may be very good for a long time, but they're never gonna be anything other than fourth fiddle in their own area. That's just the curse most programs are stuck with.

[jacksfan29]

99% of people I know in Bozeman and Missoula would be incapable of naming the entire Big Sky. Most of them probably couldn't do half. And those are two of the biggest fanbases in FCS

Hell, I have a hard time naming everyone in the Big Sky. The best thing that could happen to your league, the WAC starts FCS and takes the dead weight.

As for the OP, the MVFC is still exciting. SDSU v NDSU is exciting. NDSU's success had made SDSU better by forcing us to compete. I may dislike NDSU but their success helped bring SDSU's program back to life.

[grizband]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.
Agreed here: NDSU's dominance has made FCS somewhat boring on a macro level. There is little surprise in who will eventually win the title, especially aided by home field playoffs and the Bison's success at home (earned benefit, true). However, on the micro level there are many fascinating story lines each week. I remember 2 or 3 years ago watching a College of Faith game (I believe they were played Valparaiso, or another non-scholarship team) just to see another level of team.

[dgtw]

Then I hope you are not a AGS Poll voter.

I am not. I don’t follow the other teams close enough to be a proper voter.

So why post here? I like message boards. I do follow the goings on in the FCS through this place. I just don’t watch other games.


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[Silenoz]

Agreed here: NDSU's dominance has made FCS somewhat boring on a macro level. There is little surprise in who will eventually win the title, especially aided by home field playoffs and the Bison's success at home (earned benefit, true). However, on the micro level there are many fascinating story lines each week. I remember 2 or 3 years ago watching a College of Faith game (I believe they were played Valparaiso, or another non-scholarship team) just to see another level of team.

When you scan through the ESPN box scores, how many are you genuinely excited to see the outcome of because something hangs in the balance? Like, 7 of them? The FBS vs FCS weeks are even worse because 95% of them you know we never stood a chance.

[grizband]

When you scan through the ESPN box scores, how many are you genuinely excited to see the outcome of because something hangs in the balance? Like, 7 of them?
Isn't that about average in any given week, though? Historically I would say this number remains about the same (+/- 3 games), enough to keep me interested over a Saturday of college football.

[Silenoz]

Isn't that about average in any given week, though? Historically I would say this number remains about the same (+/- 3 games), enough to keep me interested over a Saturday of college football.

I would say it has dwindled.

#1 - Did NDSU lose and possibly cost themselves a home game for once?
#2 - Did team that might be able to challenge NDSU, so long as they are on the other side of the bracket, take care of business?
#3 - Did the other team that might be able to challenge NDSU, so long as they are on the other side of the bracket, take care of business?
#4 - How bad did the Griz lose?
#5 - Did MSU lose?
#6 - Did IU lose?
#7 - Did EWU lose?


I can't speak for anyone else but I don't care about the "stakes" of Towson Elon. You know the they have 0.00% chance of getting a championship, so what's the difference?

[CappinHard]

State flagship, pushed by NDSU into becoming a top DII program, will be pushed again once they're in the MVFC, just like we saw with SDSU. Hamstrung by a dome and location, but like I iterated earlier, I really don't think that matters much and NDSU has shown it doesn't have to be an impediment. Will it happen? Maybe, maybe not. There certainly isn't any real reason they shouldn't be a top FCS program. YSU is on the ropes, SIU has disappeared, UNI has slid into permanent mediocrity, etc. There is a lot of opportunity in the Valley, and recruiting should receive a large boost as they escape the far flung Sky.

Plus, again, there are a severe lack of candidates to choose from. Weber State may be very good for a long time, but they're never gonna be anything other than fourth fiddle in their own area. That's just the curse most programs are stuck with.

First, what does being a state's flagship university have anything to do with it? USeD is technically SD's flagship and look at them floundering at the bottom of the MVFC year after year. Speaking of USD, that's what I expect UND will do in the MVFC... be sort of relevent once every few years and underwhelming the other years.

Second, I guess I would like to see some semblance of consistent success before I think they even have a chance to be a top FCS program. I mean they've been to the FCS playoffs once for cripes sake.

[Silenoz]

First, what does being a state's flagship university have anything to do with it? USeD is technically SD's flagship and look at them floundering at the bottom of the MVFC year after year. Speaking of USD, that's what I expect UND will do in the MVFC... be sort of relevent once every few years and underwhelming the other years.

Second, I guess I would like to see some semblance of consistent success before I think they even have a chance to be a top FCS program. I mean they've been to the FCS playoffs once for cripes sake.

Yeah, and SDSU had 8 wins or more once in 30+ years not too long ago. It's a prognostication. I'm not gonna say UND couldn't be considered a reach. But it's my reach. Who would be your three selections?


In my view, flagships symbolize, in a sense, an inherit advantage in support. They're not a directional school competing against P5/G5 monies and fandom, or in-state recruiting. You point to USD, and I see another candidate that should be capable of making something of themselves at the FCS level for any real sustained period. Will it happen? Probably not. But it's more likely than SIU or Indiana State turning things around. Or some random OVC or MEAC team spontaneously becoming a juggernaut.

[CappinHard]

Yeah, and SDSU had 8 wins or more once in 30+ years not too long ago. It's a prognostication. I'm not gonna say UND couldn't be considered a reach. But it's my reach. Who would be your three selections?

Apples to oranges imo. The move to D1 brought a lot of money in for SDSU that has had a direct influence on the success of the program. I'm assuming a similar influx of funds happened for UND, but the results haven't been the same. I don't think a move from the Big Sky to the MVFC and starting to play NDSU again is going to be a catalyst for a launch to the top of the FCS.

As far as my 3 selections for an FCS power beside NDSU if JMU were to leave, I really don't know. SDSU is a good candidate, but so much of it dwells on the head coach and program support (internal and external). The support seems to be here, but who knows who SDSU's coach will be once Stig is gone. I would think it will be an attractive position, but someone could come in and derail things. Outside of SDSU I'm not sure, I think both Montana and Montana State have a good chance with the right coach, but so do a lot of other schools. I definitely don't know who exactly it will be, but I have a strong feeling it won't be UND.

[BEAR]

Obviously NDSU deserves the championships they've won. Only a few teams have stepped up to challenge them. They are and have been dominant. But it does make it boring for others IMO. As fans we can't MAKE our teams step up. All we can do is watch, support, and attend games. But once it gets to a narrow field of teams, fans pretty much check out because of how well NDSU has done. I know I do. Again, it's nothing against NDSU. I'm sure very few of their fans give a rats $%^ if UCA is in the finals. Understandable. Heck most of our fans don't care because A) they are hunting deer or B) the pigs are playing in a bowl game.

[Bison56]

Obviously NDSU deserves the championships they've won. Only a few teams have stepped up to challenge them. They are and have been dominant. But it does make it boring for others IMO. As fans we can't MAKE our teams step up. All we can do is watch, support, and attend games. But once it gets to a narrow field of teams, fans pretty much check out because of how well NDSU has done. I know I do. Again, it's nothing against NDSU. I'm sure very few of their fans give a rats $%^ if UCA is in the finals. Understandable. Heck most of our fans don't care because A) they are hunting deer or B) the pigs are playing in a bowl game.

Fyi I will watch if UCA is in the finals.

[cx500d]

It takes one bad game from the QB, or the coach, or a couple of unfortunate bounces. UNI just this season was beating NDSU in the 3rd quarter.

It's not like NDSU is as strong as Alabama and rest of the FCS is SWAC level.

No one is stopping the rest of the FCS to get better at football. Neither is NDSU recruiting better than a low level G5 team. There is an easy chance for parity.


Or 10 turnovers away....

[BEAR]

Fyi I will watch if UCA is in the finals.

xlolxThat's cool. Probably because we would be playing NDSU....

[biobengal]

To answer the original question.... NNNooooooo. My Black Bears and Bengals are both in contention and trending. Best season in a long time. Sorry the wildcats stink.

[clenz]

Yes. But it doesn't have to do with ndsu.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[NDSUtk]

Or 10 turnovers away....I see what you did there...

[Bison56]

Or 10 turnovers away....

xbowx

[bonarae]

Yes, especially in the Ivies. But we are a special case though... xsmhx

[grizband]

I would say it has dwindled.

#1 - Did NDSU lose and possibly cost themselves a home game for once?
#2 - Did team that might be able to challenge NDSU, so long as they are on the other side of the bracket, take care of business?
#3 - Did the other team that might be able to challenge NDSU, so long as they are on the other side of the bracket, take care of business?
#4 - How bad did the Griz lose?
#5 - Did MSU lose?
#6 - Did IU lose?
#7 - Did EWU lose?
I guess I differ in my ability to find meaning in FCS games across the country.
1. How did the Griz play
2. How MSU lose?
From here each scenario provides the possibility of watching multiple games
3. How did the other Big Sky teams do?
4. How are potential playoff fringe teams performing this week?
5. Are there any interesting players I've learned about on AGS that I can watch in a given week?

[JayJ79]

I also favored the 16 team playoff much more. The 24 team playoff allows for far too many participation trophies. There's simply too many games/teams taking up space.
At least it isn't as bad as the FBS and their 57 bowl games.
A win in a playoff game at least earns you a spot in the next round, where as a win in a bowl game doesn't (with the exception of the 2 semifinal games)..

You must REALLY hate the basketball tournament with their 68 teams and all of those participation trophies.

[IBleedYellow]

Yeah, and SDSU had 8 wins or more once in 30+ years not too long ago. It's a prognostication. I'm not gonna say UND couldn't be considered a reach. But it's my reach. Who would be your three selections?


In my view, flagships symbolize, in a sense, an inherit advantage in support. They're not a directional school competing against P5/G5 monies and fandom, or in-state recruiting. You point to USD, and I see another candidate that should be capable of making something of themselves at the FCS level for any real sustained period. Will it happen? Probably not. But it's more likely than SIU or Indiana State turning things around. Or some random OVC or MEAC team spontaneously becoming a juggernaut.Here's the thing though.

SDSU has shown that their leadership is superior to UNDs just by seeing the reasons to move to D1 first.

**** I still think UND adminstration didn't want to move to D1 in all sports just so they could say they had the only D1 program in the state with hockey.

UND has been plagued with piss poor leadership for a long long time. They seem to care more about pulling everyone else down vs trying to elevate themselves.


And lastly. Hockey.



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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

At least it isn't as bad as the FBS and their 57 bowl games.
A win in a playoff game at least earns you a spot in the next round, where as a win in a bowl game doesn't (with the exception of the 2 semifinal games)..

You must REALLY hate the basketball tournament with their 68 teams and all of those participation trophies.

There are WAY too many bowl games. I'd like to see the number trimmed to the 20 range. Allow the 10 win Georgia Southern's, Temple's, San Diego State's etc. a chance to play a quality, 8/9 win P5 program.

The NCAA Tournament is fine! They go from 68 teams (out of 347) to 16 in just a few days. I'm a huge March Madness fan because of the chaos and the fact it moves along. It takes the FCS playoffs 3 weeks to really get to the cream of the crop.

[Reign of Terrier]

Counterpoint to bowl bashing: if you're a good team, you're 50% likely to end your season with a win.

At FCS, that number is 4%.

I like bowls. When we beat Furman last year I kinda knew we would lose the next week against NDSU because it felt like a bowl game. Everything felt so complete, the season could end right there and I would have been fine (never had that feeling in the playoffs before)

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[Scooter]

IMO no.
NDSU is the team to beat but they play in a conference that simply put, takes a physical toll. There are a lot of programs in the FCS that keep things interresting. Kenneshaw is an program that is getting better each year while teams like Wofford, Chattonooga, McNeese, UCA, SHSU and Jacksonville St keep things interresting down south. In the Midwest you have NDSU, SDSU, Illinois St and UNI. East Coast...JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Elon, Maine and Stonybrook. Out west...E Washington, UCDavis, Weber.

Throw in Colgate, San Deigo and und and you have a pretty decent field.

I think that once the SHSU, Montana, Montana St, Youngstown and Cal Poly teams get their **** together the league will be stronger than ever.

[caribbeanhen]

One concern: entire geographical areas of the subdivision are not competitive.

The entire Northeast comes to mind. So too the Southland, which used to be one of the subdivision's strongest areas. Add in the MEAC/SWAC falling off the map, and it would be easy to conclude that it's only three conferences (MVFC, Big Sky, and the southern branch of the CAA) which will even compete in the playoffs.

Yes, it's like FCS has split between strong and weak conferences and playoff regionalizaton is not a good thing for fans of FCS

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Yep. I love watching NDSU beat up on the red headed step children of the subdivision as much as anybody. But even I'm starting to get sleepy watching this crap. Take the tournament down to 16 and when NDSU runs through all them chumps we play UCF in the "National Championship" New Years day. Boom. Mike Drop.

[Silenoz]

Yep. I love watching NDSU beat up on the red headed step children of the subdivision as much as anybody. But even I'm starting to get sleepy watching this crap. Take the tournament down to 16 and when NDSU runs through all them chumps we play UCF in the "National Championship" New Years day. Boom. Mike Drop.

That's a game I'd actually watch

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

That's a game I'd actually watch

Funny thing is, someone noted last week that NDSU and UCF are within one place of each other in SOS. lol

[Hammerhead]

I'm still thinking we'll end up with the P5 conferences forming I-A, the G5 and 1/4 of the FCS teams in I-AA , and the leftovers in I-AAA with a 45 scholarship limit.



Yep. I love watching NDSU beat up on the red headed step children of the subdivision as much as anybody. But even I'm starting to get sleepy watching this crap. Take the tournament down to 16 and when NDSU runs through all them chumps we play UCF in the "National Championship" New Years day. Boom. Mike Drop.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Funny thing is, someone noted last week that NDSU and UCF are within one place of each other in SOS. lol

Temple 34 UCF 28 Half

xsmiley_wix

[Drblankstare]

I'm still thinking we'll end up with the P5 conferences forming I-A, the G5 and 1/4 of the FCS teams in I-AA , and the leftovers in I-AAA with a 45 scholarship limit.

Ive had that same thought for a long time, thinking that P5 schools would finally just call a spade a spade, form there own “league” and set the G5 schools adrift. What I finally realized is, that is probably never happening. The system now is great for them, why change it. They get all the money and all the playoffs spots, why bother doing anything different.

It would have to be up to the G5 schools to say screw it and form there own thing, but again no one wants to mess with the money, even if it’s just a pittance compared to the P5 conferences. I have no idea what Mac schools get for playing a 11pm Tuesday game on ESPN, but it must be worth it.

[BisonBacker]

Ive had that same thought for a long time, thinking that P5 schools would finally just call a spade a spade, form there own “league” and set the G5 schools adrift. What I finally realized is, that is probably never happening. The system now is great for them, why change it. They get all the money and all the playoffs spots, why bother doing anything different.

It would have to be up to the G5 schools to say screw it and form there own thing, but again no one wants to mess with the money, even if it’s just a pittance compared to the P5 conferences. I have no idea what Mac schools get for playing a 11pm Tuesday game on ESPN, but it must be worth it.

I'd say your assessment I bolded is about right. This is why schools like Coastal Carolina, GSU, App ect all took the plunge and moved on.

[bisonboone11]

Counterpoint to bowl bashing: if you're a good team, you're 50% likely to end your season with a win.

At FCS, that number is 4%.

I like bowls. When we beat Furman last year I kinda knew we would lose the next week against NDSU because it felt like a bowl game. Everything felt so complete, the season could end right there and I would have been fine (never had that feeling in the playoffs before)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkAre that many participation trophies a good thing?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

Temple 34 UCF 28 Half

xsmiley_wixAnybody that says that UCF belongs on the same field with Alabama is insane, Alabama would drop 70 on that defense.

[Laker]

Temple just missed the two point conversion. UCF is up 42-40 with 9:44 to play.

[POD Knows]

Temple just missed the two point conversion. UCF is up 42-40 with 9:44 to play.Temple has about 650 yards of total offense. Take away the stupid penalties and Temple would be rolling these guys.

[Laker]

Temple has about 650 yards of total offense. Take away the stupid penalties and Temple would be rolling these guys.

The taunting penalty that Temple's #1 was idiotic. Make a nice catch, then woof about it and lose 15 yards.

[BisonBacker]

Anybody that says that UCF belongs on the same field with Alabama is insane, Alabama would drop 70 on that defense.

What defense?

[POD Knows]

The taunting penalty that Temple's #1 was idiotic. Make a nice catch, then woof about it and lose 15 yards.They are going to hit 200 yards of penalties by the time this game is over. Terrible PI call against them on that last UCF drive.

[BisonBacker]

OMG That was funny. He's saying my foots longer than I thought it was. Damn now I gotta run xlolx

[POD Knows]

The taunting penalty that Temple's #1 was idiotic. Make a nice catch, then woof about it and lose 15 yards.Don't want to turn this into a game thread for this game but is the UCF D line lined up off sides on every play.

[Laker]

Don't want to turn this into a game thread for this game but is the UCF D line lined up off sides on every play.

That is what it looks like to me too. I don't understand why they don't call it.

[Sader87]

The FCS-level is the "Island of Misfit Toys"....accept this and just shut up. xdrunkyx

[BisonBacker]

Don't want to turn this into a game thread for this game but is the UCF D line lined up off sides on every play.


That is what it looks like to me too. I don't understand why they don't call it.

I thought so at first too but I think it's the shadows kinda playing tricks.

[POD Knows]

The FCS-level is the "Island of Misfit Toys"....accept this and just shut up. xdrunkyxSpeak for yourself, it is programs like yours that hurts the brand, such as it is.

[Sader87]

Speak for yourself, it is programs like yours that hurts the brand, such as it is.

No it isn't....Holy Cross realizes that a school of 3,000 can't compete with on a level basis with schools it has played in the past like BC and Syracuse today. We'll play them occasionally, but we realize that it's a different world today. It's schools like yours who are essentially operating at a level that you are in fact an FBS program that has skewed the balance of this level imo.

[POD Knows]

No it isn't....Holy Cross realizes that a school of 3,000 can't compete with on a level basis with schools it has played in the past like BC and Syracuse today. We'll play them occasionally, but we realize that it's a different world today. It's schools like yours who are essentially operating at a level that you are in fact an FBS program that has skewed the balance of this level imo.It will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming years, NDSU is not in a position to move to FBS nor have they received any type of invite.

[BisonBacker]

Like I said "What defense" Neither team has one.

[Sader87]

This is what I mean about the "misfit toys" analogy....we are all at this level for different reasons in many ways. NDSU can't find an FBS home. The Ivies choose to play at a D1 level but not at a "hyper D1 level." A lot of the state schools at the FCS level are not their states flagship State U. Private schools at the FCS-level want to continue to play D1 football for varying reasons etc.... We are all essentially Charlie in the Box....not capable of having an FBS program, but still want to find a home in D1 college football.

It is what is accept it....in many ways it's a great level but the playoff system is hot garbage. Just play out the regular season and have a few FCS type bowl games.

[Bisonoline]

This is what I mean about the "misfit toys" analogy....we are all at this level for different reasons in many ways. NDSU can't find an FBS home. The Ivies choose to play at a D1 level but not at a "hyper D1 level." A lot of the state schools at the FCS level are not their states flagship State U. Private schools at the FCS-level want to continue to play D1 football for varying reasons etc.... We are all essentially Charlie in the Box....not capable of having an FBS program, but still want to find a home in D1 college football.

It is what is accept it....in many ways it's a great level but the playoff system is hot garbage. Just play out the regular season and have a few FCS type bowl games.

Why? The lower level FBS bowls really suck. Plus FYI many years ago the D2 Championship was settled with bowl games youve never heard of. They were regional. Then a National Champion was Picked from those winners. Nobody want to go back to that except those who cant play at a higher level. If you cant participate at a D1 level you need to drop down a level.

[Reign of Terrier]

Are that many participation trophies a good thing?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TapatalkStatistically speaking, there can only be one national champion a year. No one is kidding themselves otherwise. In the meantime, it makes for fun.

You can win a race and lose a championship.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

Why? The lower level FBS bowls really suck. Plus FYI many years ago the D2 Championship was settled with bowl games youve never heard of. Nobody want to go back to that except those who cant play at a higher level. If you cant participate at a D1 level you need to drop down a level. [/B]

I'm well aware of the D2, D3 bowls of the past...Stagg etc.

Football is a different animal than other sports that have a playoff format....bowl games at the FCS level would be just fine to end a season instead of playing 4 or 5 more games. Some schools (SWAC and MEAC) already do this. Others (Ivies) eschew the playoffs altogether. The FCS playoff system is a mess...too large at 24 teams, most people in the country (outside of a few isolated pockets) couldn't care less, the "bidding process" for home games etc etc...it's basically garbage and most either know this or couldn't care less (or don't know) if for example Weber St beats Eastern Illinois in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs. It just is what it is.

That being said, it's a great level of football for alumni/students and the communities during the Fall. Great for alumni opportunities, good for the student bodies and a great take for the local communities.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm well aware of the D2, D3 bowls of the past...Stagg etc.

Football is a different animal than other sports that have a playoff format....bowl games at the FCS level would be just fine to end a season instead of playing 4 or 5 more games. Some schools (SWAC and MEAC) already do this. Others (Ivies) eschew the playoffs altogether. The FCS playoff system is a mess...too large at 24 teams, most people in the country (outside of a few isolated pockets) couldn't care less, the "bidding process" for home games etc etc...it's basically garbage and most either know this or couldn't care less (or don't know) if for example Weber St beats Eastern Illinois in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs. It just is what it is.

That being said, it's a great level of football for alumni/students and the communities during the Fall. Great for alumni opportunities, good for the student bodies and a great take for the local communities.
So if "no one cares about the FCS playoffs outside of a few isolated pockets" what makes you think anyone would care about FCS bowl games? Why play any postseason games at all? If it's just a social event why play games when there's inclement weather or into late fall in places where it gets cold? Why even keep score?

I realize I'm getting carried away with these analogies but the point of sports is to compete and I think your take on it is just a representation of someone who doesn't like competition.

[Bisonoline]

So if "no one cares about the FCS playoffs outside of a few isolated pockets" what makes you think anyone would care about FCS bowl games? Why play any postseason games at all? If it's just a social event why play games when there's inclement weather or into late fall in places where it gets cold? Why even keep score?

I realize I'm getting carried away with these analogies but the point of sports is to compete and I think your take on it is just a representation of someone who doesn't like competition.

One must also remember the reason they play the game. In its pure essence its about the kids and competition. Its the kids who play the game. If some fans are bored thats on them. The kids arent bored. Thats whats important.

[Sader87]

Not at all...love competition, what makes our society great in many ways.

That being said, the FCS playoffs are basically just "jamming a square peg into a round hole"....it's just not a system that works or really, is needed.

There's just no way the vast majority of FCS schools will evah in any way have the resources, the where with all, administrative backing etc to be competitive with the NDSUs, JMUs etc etc....have a bowl system with the MVFC schools playing CAA schools, Ivy vs Patriot etc....it will just work bettah on so many levels. There's no need for a 5 game playoff, month long process to anoint the same schools ovah and ovah as FCS champions.

[Bisonoline]

Not at all...love competition, what makes our society great in many ways.

That being said, the FCS playoffs are basically just "jamming a square peg into a round hole"....it's just not a system that works or really, is needed.

There's just no way the vast majority of FCS schools will evah in any way have the resources, the where with all, administrative backing etc to be competitive with the NDSUs, JMUs etc etc....have a bowl system with the MVFC schools playing CAA schools, Ivy vs Patriot etc....it will just work bettah on so many levels. There's no need for a 5 game playoff, month long process to anoint the same schools ovah and ovah as FCS champions.

Ive found that most who have that view point arent relevant enough to be involved in the playoffs. Its easy to call the playoffs irrelevant when you arent in them.xthumbsupx

[Sader87]

Ive found that most who have that view point arent relevant enough to be involved in the playoffs. Its easy to call the playoffs irrelevant when you arent in them.xthumbsupx

Holy Cross and the Ivies have the financial where with all to blow the NDSUs of the world off the field in football if they chose to do so. They chose to keep football in perspective. Playing at the FCS-level allows schools like that to do that...keep football in a proper perspective i.e. play schools with a similar philosophy, occasionally step up and play schools above us (BC, Syracuse etc)....we don't have a football team to beat Northern Arizona on December 29th in the FCS semi-finals.

[Bisonoline]

Holy Cross and the Ivies have the financial where with all to blow the NDSUs of the world off the field in football if they chose to do so. They chose to keep football in perspective. Playing at the FCS-level allows schools like that to do that...keep football in a proper perspective i.e. play schools with a similar philosophy, occasionally step up and play schools above us (BC, Syracuse etc)....we don't have a football team to beat Northern Arizona on December 29th in the FCS semi-finals.

No you really dont and cant. You can only give out so much money according to NCAA rules. That football shtick in perspective Bull**** is getting pretty tiring considering that all your other sports are allowed to compete for championships. Its really nothing more than hypocritical. Whats funny is the ivies come off as this supposed higher intellect crap but most can see right through the BS. All that rhetoric is nothing more that rationalization and justification for not being able to compete at a high level and it really makes you look foolish.

[Sader87]

If you don't think that the Ivy and Patriot League schools don't give the FCS-level major credence in a host of ways, you're deluding yourself.

[Bisonoline]

If you don't think that the Ivy and Patriot League schools don't give the FCS-level major creedence in a host of ways, you're deluding yourself.

Just not enough creedence to be relevant.

[quadshock]

Not boring at all!

Sincerely, a UC Davis fan

[Sader87]

Just not enough creedence to be relevant.

The thing is, we don't have to be relevant at the FCS level....I'd rather we beat Harvard on Sept. 30th than Cal-Poly on December 22nd...the playoffs are irrelevant to most.

[Sader87]

Again, to each his own...but FCS playoff success (although hard to envision right now) is really not that important to most HC fans...playing and beating our historic rivals is....the FCS playoff system is a typical sham NCAA process i.e. making $$$ off of the schools

[Professor Chaos]

Again, to each his own...but FCS playoff success (although hard to envision right now) is really not that important to most HC fans...playing and beating our historic rivals is....the FCS playoff system is a typical sham NCAA process i.e. making $$$ off of the schools
Well I've seen more than a few HBCU fans on here go on about how the playoffs are worthless because they lose money. You all should really get together and figure out where on the doll the big bad playoffs hurt you.

[Sader87]

This thread is about "is the FCS boring?"....under the current playoff format, not that I care that much, but it most definitely is.

[BisonTru]

Maybe the patriot and pioneer should have a bowl. That sounds exciting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Go...gate]

I'm well aware of the D2, D3 bowls of the past...Stagg etc.

Football is a different animal than other sports that have a playoff format....bowl games at the FCS level would be just fine to end a season instead of playing 4 or 5 more games. Some schools (SWAC and MEAC) already do this. Others (Ivies) eschew the playoffs altogether. The FCS playoff system is a mess...too large at 24 teams, most people in the country (outside of a few isolated pockets) couldn't care less, the "bidding process" for home games etc etc...it's basically garbage and most either know this or couldn't care less (or don't know) if for example Weber St beats Eastern Illinois in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs. It just is what it is.

That being said, it's a great level of football for alumni/students and the communities during the Fall. Great for alumni opportunities, good for the student bodies and a great take for the local communities.

This.

[Go...gate]

Not boring at all!

Sincerely, a UC Davis fan

This, too.

[BisonBacker]

I'm well aware of the D2, D3 bowls of the past...Stagg etc.

Football is a different animal than other sports that have a playoff format....bowl games at the FCS level would be just fine to end a season instead of playing 4 or 5 more games. Some schools (SWAC and MEAC) already do this. Others (Ivies) eschew the playoffs altogether. The FCS playoff system is a mess...too large at 24 teams, most people in the country (outside of a few isolated pockets) couldn't care less, the "bidding process" for home games etc etc...it's basically garbage and most either know this or couldn't care less (or don't know) if for example Weber St beats Eastern Illinois in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs. It just is what it is.

That being said, it's a great level of football for alumni/students and the communities during the Fall. Great for alumni opportunities, good for the student bodies and a great take for the local communities.


This is rich. Gee I wonder why you would say this xcoffeex

[Herder]

It will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming years, NDSU is not in a position to move to FBS nor have they received any type of invite.

not in a position to move up? Compared to recent move ups, they certainly are in position. Yes that position sucks compared to Ohio State and USC, but ndsu would be as ready as any team in the last 10 move ups.

[BisonBacker]

not in a position to move up? Compared to recent move ups, they certainly are in position. Yes that position sucks compared to Ohio State and USC, but ndsu would be as ready as any team in the last 10 move ups.

I agree with the right invite they could but you're correct their position may not be ideal however that position wouldn't have to be permanent.

[Herder]

No you really dont and cant. You can only give out so much money according to NCAA rules. That football shtick in perspective Bull**** is getting pretty tiring considering that all your other sports are allowed to compete for championships. Its really nothing more than hypocritical. Whats funny is the ivies come off as this supposed higher intellect crap but most can see right through the BS. All that rhetoric is nothing more that rationalization and justification for not being able to compete at a high level and it really makes you look foolish.

And finally the truth is told. Preach it Oline!

[POD Knows]

not in a position to move up? Compared to recent move ups, they certainly are in position. Yes that position sucks compared to Ohio State and USC, but ndsu would be as ready as any team in the last 10 move ups.
From a football quality and competitive standpoint, I would agree, I am not as up to speed as maybe some on the financial requirement and the other parameters. There is more to it than just fielding a team that would be competitive.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No you really dont and cant. You can only give out so much money according to NCAA rules. That football shtick in perspective Bull**** is getting pretty tiring considering that all your other sports are allowed to compete for championships. Its really nothing more than hypocritical. Whats funny is the ivies come off as this supposed higher intellect crap but most can see right through the BS. All that rhetoric is nothing more that rationalization and justification for not being able to compete at a high level and it really makes you look foolish.

Most schools playing FCS football really aren't racking up D1 championships in any sport. There's a few exceptions (UND/Hockey, 'Nova/BBall, plus the niche sports) but overall they're fielding "lesser" programs across the board.

The Ivy League's stance on football and the playoffs has nothing to do with not being able to compete. They've had nationally competitive FCS teams since the Al Bagnoli Penn squads of the mid 90's. The IL, for the most part, is all in on FCS football minus caring about an 11th game and the playoffs. The 10 game schedule at this point is far more bizarre than the playoff ban. While I would love to see them in the playoffs for the simple fact that I believe they would be immediate contenders, I get their position. There's too many teams, it's disjointed and the awarding of home games via bidding is ridiculous. Not like they would ever be playing on the road....

[Thumper 76]

Why? The lower level FBS bowls really suck. Plus FYI many years ago the D2 Championship was settled with bowl games youve never heard of. They were regional. Then a National Champion was Picked from those winners. Nobody want to go back to that except those who cant play at a higher level. If you cant participate at a D1 level you need to drop down a level.
I’m not sure why people think that bowls for FCS would get more attention than the playoffs do now? A neutral site exhibition game isn’t going to draw many fans, certainly not more than currently go to playoff games. The Celebration Bowl works for the MEAC and SWAC because of the whole HBCU deal along with their fans being accustomed to a lot of similar styled games during the season. If someone told me we were ending with a bowl game in Alabama against Towson I wouldn’t give much of a rip. I certainly wouldn’t be paying to go down and see it.

Ive found that most who have that view point arent relevant enough to be involved in the playoffs. Its easy to call the playoffs irrelevant when you arent in them.xthumbsupx
Ding ding ding. There’s a trend with all the fans on here who are saying that it’s boring. All their teams are having bad years or haven’t been good for a long time. Your team winning drastically enhances excitement.

The thing is, we don't have to be relevant at the FCS level....I'd rather we beat Harvard on Sept. 30th than Cal-Poly on December 22nd...the playoffs are irrelevant to most.

Well, one you’ve had an opportunity to do recently and the other you might get a shot at every 15 years. I can see being bitter about the playoffs and wanting a participation bowl when you aren’t good enough to get in.


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[JSUSoutherner]

I’m not sure why people think that bowls for FCS would get more attention than the playoffs do now? A neutral site exhibition game isn’t going to draw many fans, certainly not more than currently go to playoff games. The Celebration Bowl works for the MEAC and SWAC because of the whole HBCU deal along with their fans being accustomed to a lot of similar styled games during the season. If someone told me we were ending with a bowl game in Alabama against Towson I wouldn’t give much of a rip. I certainly wouldn’t be paying to go down and see it.

Ding ding ding. There’s a trend with all the fans on here who are saying that it’s boring. All their teams are having bad years or haven’t been good for a long time. Your team winning drastically enhances excitement.


Well, one you’ve had an opportunity to do recently and the other you might get a shot at every 15 years. I can see being bitter about the playoffs and wanting a participation bowl when you aren’t good enough to get in.


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You think you don't want to go to a neutral site game in Alabama? I don't even like neutral site games in Alabama.

[uni88]

If you don't think that the Ivy and Patriot League schools don't give the FCS-level major credence in a host of ways, you're deluding yourself.The Ivy yes, Patriot not so much. The Patriot has great schools with great regional recognition but the Ivy/Patriot are about as similar in brand recognition to the majority of the country as the SEC/Atlantic Sun.

[AmsterBison]

I watched a bit of a MAC game on Wednesday - at first I thought it was a horror movie set in an abandoned football stadium.

The playoffs aren't boring. Bowl games are exhibition games. Picking champions by poll goes against the spirit of sport.

[JSUSoutherner]

I watched a bit of a MAC game on Wednesday - at first I thought it was a horror movie set in an abandoned football stadium.

The playoffs aren't boring. Bowl games are exhibition games. Picking champions by poll goes against the spirit of sport.

Did you see the UCF Temple game last night? THAT was a fun one.

[AmsterBison]

Did you see the UCF Temple game last night? THAT was a fun one.

I saw the end of the first half - looked good. Hate to be a defense up against UCF.

[Reign of Terrier]

FCS is for the schools that want to field a successful division one basketball team (somewhat easy from a financial standpoint) but don't have the resources or following to play at the FBS level but have more resources than those at the D2 level.

I don't buy the argument that some teams will never be competitive. Wofford is in the bottom five smallest schools in division 1 (or something like that), have been playing D1 since the mid 90s and only since about a decade ago have we had "D1" facilities for the football team and in the last 3 for other sports like basketball and volleyball. In spite of all this, we're objectively a top 20 FCS program by measure of playoff appearances, wins, and conference titles. We've made 4 NCAA tournament appearances in basketball. Admittedly, in some ways the stars have to align somehow (good coach, consistency, etc), but the point is you need the administration behind your AD, etc. I won't go so far to say Wofford is a "football school." It isn't. Our football and basketball teams are complements to the overall student experience. YT was probably one of the 1% or so Wofford students who was a season ticket holder before, during, and after his time of enrollment. But none of the student body or alumni, outside of a sample of less than 1000 of 20,000 living alumni live and die for Wofford athletics. FCS is perfect for us because of the exposure it gives us on the basketball court and our ability to compete at a relatively high level in football. But we'll never be FBS ever ever ever. And D2 would hold us back from our potential because we probably couldn't recruit as well.

Bottom line: FCS is what you put into it. I will say that many schools like Furman, Wofford, Samford, and other private schools have a ceiling in terms of fan support, money they can make, and so on (for now). I'd put it at 15k for a home game or so. That's much lower than some of these state universities like NDSU. And let's not even talk about academic standards!

So in one regard, FCS is perfect for teams that want to be successful and play at a relatively high level, but also have a ceiling. I don't think the "problem" we see with NDSU and JMU is an FCS problem. It's a program problem in that they likely aren't meeting their potential. Winning is awesome, and in the context of one sport, it's everything, but in the context of a program it isn't.

I still follow the Georgia Southern message board (holdover from when they were FCS), and there was this one post the other day that sort of epitomizes the move up mindset. It basically said this: Georgia Southern could win their next 4 games, host a home conference title game that could determine whether they play in a new years six bowl; if you miss the FCS, you're crazy. That's a lot to be excited about, and for them it's more exciting than playing on Friday night in December in the FCS semifinals.

[Reign of Terrier]

post script to my last post:

To illustrate my point that FCS is the perfect place for some schools and maybe not so much for others: Wofford plays UNC in basketball on Tuesday. We probably won't win, but we will have a chance (see our game last season where we did win). It's also possible (but not likely IMO) that we go to Fargo and beat the Bison this year.

*In my opinion,* beating NDSU @ NDSU would be a bigger upset than beating UNC at home this year. We're super competitive in two sports, football and basketball (arguably more successful in basketball), and it's great for exposure and wouldn't be possible without FCS. I'm sure there are many schools in a similar position.

[Gate83]

I don't think "the FCS" is any more or less boring than it ever was... as a whole, it's largely irrelevant. Win your games, win the league, the playoffs are a nice bonus & if you win a couple of games as we did a couple of years back, well that's great. It's unrealistic to think smaller schools that self-limit via academic standards are going to compete with the bigger state schools consistently, just a fact of life.

Completely agree that we should continue to compete in the playoffs, a theoretical Ivy/PL bowl game holds zero interest. They don't want to play us in the regular season these days, why would they want to play us in an exhibition game?

[Silenoz]

While I think the playoffs are in a DIII-esque rut, and I don't know if it will get better, bowl games are like a million times worse. That would be the worst idea in the history of FCS.

[Sonic98]

Alabama's run, while dominant as hell, still isn't on NDSU's level. I think the Bison's odds of winning the title this year are still considerably higher than the Tide's. 'Bama still has to face 3 damn good teams on a neutral field in order to win the title. The Bison only have to win 1. Even then, no one in FCS can compare to NDSU's traveling fan base.


How many fans do they usually take on the road?

[DFW HOYA]

Completely agree that we should continue to compete in the playoffs, a theoretical Ivy/PL bowl game holds zero interest. They don't want to play us in the regular season these days, why would they want to play us in an exhibition game?

Who would show up in December to see Colgate at Dartmouth?

What the Ivy should do is find a down and out bowl in the Bahamas or southern Florida and schedule the Ivy champ against an FBS opponent, say, a team in Conference USA. As Lee Corso might say, "closer than you'd think."

[Sonic98]

Well be honest, how many of you are actually watching multiple FCS games every Saturday? How many people are getting off of their FCS high horses and following the Celebration bowl race? FCS might seem boring if you aren’t truly sitting down and watching a ton of it. I guarantee almost all of us turn off FCS football once our games have ended.

I’m a FAMU fan who watches games from other FCS conferences, even though my team isn’t going to the playoffs this year...and in the MEAC and SWAC it’s been entertaining watching teams fight for a conference title and enjoying some entertaining games.

You make a good point. FCS is boring because FCS fans are boring. Most people are only paying attention to their own games or their own conference. Outside of that we might catch a couple playoff games if it involves teams from our conference. This site, like most enthusiast sites, have people who are more tuned in than "normal" people. In FBS though Bama might be dominant, some years they are still vulnerable and at least several other teams have good story lines. Fans make the experience. The more fans start being only interested in their own conference, the less exciting FCS seems even to people outside of FCS. IF we're not watching the few games that come out on tv, and we're not packing out all our games, who is going to pay any attention to our games including our own students and alumni? The NCAA, ESPN, and others in the sports ruling class already place low value on FCS. Then you couple that with what another poster said about the level of talent not being what it once was, that just leads to people other than die hard fans having much enthusiasm. Look at the SWAC and MEAC. Fans aren't stupid. They see we don't have the level of player we used to have. They see the level of play is not what it once was. They see the gap between other FCS programs and even bottom FBS programs. They know it's not the same thing anymore as even watching mid-level FBS teams

[Reign of Terrier]

Here's a better way of phrasing the topic of this thread:

How would you change FCS football to make it more fun for most (if not all) fans?

IMO any attempt to change the game/format/whatever to appeal to non-already-engaged fans will ultimately fail, but there are still multiple ways to answer this question (and not all of them have to do with NDSU moving up!)

[Silenoz]

Here's a better way of phrasing the topic of this thread:

How would you change FCS football to make it more fun for most (if not all) fans?

IMO any attempt to change the game/format/whatever to appeal to non-already-engaged fans will ultimately fail, but there are still multiple ways to answer this question (and not all of them have to do with NDSU moving up!)
Well, the biggest problem isn't totally confined to FCS, but:

1 - A reshuffle needs to happen. Grab the dregs of FBS G5 conferences, with the conferences in FCS that actually offer scholarships, participate in playoffs, etc. Obviously that is a very complicated and unrealistic thing, but that would produce a larger more competitive playing field. Without that we have the Ivies, the SWAC, the Pioneer, the partial schollies, the Celebration Bowl, and on and on. How many schools are actually trying to compete with the NDSUs of the world with any real effort? Like 40? Maybe?

2 - You also need to get rid of regionalization in the playoffs. Obviously that too is very unrealistic right now. Would a restructured subdivision have access to more teams with more allure and more TV money to help fund such things? Who knows. Seeing teams have to play conference mates in the first and second round of the playoffs is so dumb. Part of the excitement of the playoffs is matching up against programs you've never played before. Or at least it should be.

3 - Programs need to be more engaged and trying to compete at a higher level. FBS has dozens upon dozens of these programs. FCS has very, very few. Unfortunately this may be the most unrealistic idea of them all, as we're probably gonna be only going backwards in this regard. Football is expensive, and most FCS schools don't have any money, and it will only get more expensive. And now we have FCOA in the mix, further separating things. I'm honestly surprised that programs like Portland State haven't folded yet, or that no one else in the Northeast has followed Hofstra and Northeastern's lead.

[bisonboone11]

I don't see any way in which switching FCS over to a bowl format would make it more exciting. There is a reason why the FBS has transitioned to a mini playoff format and will likely expand that further in time.

If the argument is that the FCS playoffs has expanded too much, I could understand that, but switching to a bowl system just so more teams can feel good about themselves isn't the answer IMO.

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[Reign of Terrier]

Well, the biggest problem isn't totally confined to FCS, but:

1 - A reshuffle needs to happen. Grab the dregs of FBS G5 conferences, with the conferences in FCS that actually offer scholarships, participate in playoffs, etc. Obviously that is a very complicated and unrealistic thing, but that would produce a larger more competitive playing field.

2 - You also need to get rid of regionalization in the playoffs. Obviously that too is very unrealistic right now. Would a restructured subdivision have access to more teams with more allure and more TV money to help fund such things? Who knows. Seeing teams have to play conference mates in the first and second round of the playoffs is so dumb. Part of the excitement of the playoffs is matching up against programs you've never played before. Or at least it should be.

3 - Programs need to be more engaged and trying to compete at a higher level. FBS has dozens upon dozens of these programs. FCS has very, very few. Unfortunately this may be the most unrealistic idea of them all, as we're probably gonna be only going backwards in this regard. Football is expensive, and most FCS schools don't have any money, and it will only get more expensive. And now we have FCOA in the mix, further separating things. I'm honestly surprised that programs like Portland State haven't folded yet, or that no one else in the Northeast has followed Hofstra and Northeastern's lead.

I personally think the Pioneer, NEC, and Patriot should just not participate in the playoffs. Give them a bowl game or something. I know there are Patriot league fans on here who disagree with me, but I think a 24 team playoff works best if everyone is on relatively even footing.

I know the MEAC, Big South, and OVC aren't exactly on the level of the MVFC, socon, big sky, and CAA, but they are more competitive than they aforementioned conferences. I think removing these conferences from autobid consideration (and giving them a bowl game or something to compete for) cuts the fat out of the playoffs in terms of making better competition. These conferences don't send at large teams to the playoffs anyway, so they wouldn't really be punishing these conferences.

That would force the geographic alignment of the conferences to be a bit more fair. Each conference except the Big Sky would have 3 conferences they could potentially play.

[Big Dawg]

Another why FCS might seem boring, is because the major networks pay no attention for the most part. Sure, the MEAC, SWAC sand Ivy League schools land on ESPNU, ESPNEWS or ESPN Classic during the regular season, but most of the major networks see NDSU and nobody else. There’s no playoff build up, no analysts breaking down the FCS playoff picture...nothing.

FCS football doesn’t get a truly big stage until the Celebration Bowl...then ESPN starts to show the FCS playoffs. I get it, most fans won’t truly care about FCS, but it doesn’t help that most people(primarily those not on these forums) are unfamiliar with most FCS teams. We’re pretty separated regionally.

[DFW HOYA]

I personally think the Pioneer, NEC, and Patriot should just not participate in the playoffs. Give them a bowl game or something. I know there are Patriot league fans on here who disagree with me, but I think a 24 team playoff works best if everyone is on relatively even footing.

You do realize, of course, that six of seven PL teams outspend nearly everyone in the subdivision?

[Professor Chaos]

Another why FCS might seem boring, is because the major networks pay no attention for the most part. Sure, the MEAC, SWAC sand Ivy League schools land on ESPNU, ESPNEWS or ESPN Classic during the regular season, but most of the major networks see NDSU and nobody else. There’s no playoff build up, no analysts breaking down the FCS playoff picture...nothing.

FCS football doesn’t get a truly big stage until the Celebration Bowl...then ESPN starts to show the FCS playoffs. I get it, most fans won’t truly care about FCS, but it doesn’t help that most people(primarily those not on these forums) are unfamiliar with most FCS teams. We’re pretty separated regionally.
Yep, much truth here. I say it every year but I think it would be a great day of programming if ESPN took one of their ancillary networks like ESPNEWS or ESPNU and dedicated the whole day on those first two Saturdays of the playoffs to FCS playoff game. Stagger the kickoffs for the 8 games from say 1PM ET until 8PM ET and switch back and forth from game-to-game depending on which games are close. Still give the ESPN3 option for those who want to watch "their game" in it's entirety but I think it would really help draw casual sports fans to our level of football.

I'm a March Madness junkie to the point where I take off work the opening Thursday and Friday of the NCAA Tournament so I can just veg out and watch college hoops for about 12 hours straight. They could get a little taste of that in the opening two Saturdays of the FCS playoffs with 8 games each day.

I realize this has about a 0.01% chance of ever happening and that my view on it is incredibly biased being a much bigger fan of FCS football than the casual sports fan but a guy can always hope... ESPN does next to nothing to market the FCS playoffs so it can only get better.

[AmsterBison]

According to NDSU's radio guys, next year is going to be very interesting. A lot of the top teams are extremely young this year while NDSU is graduating 20+ guys.

[Silenoz]

According to NDSU's radio guys, next year is going to be very interesting. A lot of the top teams are extremely young this year while NDSU is graduating 20+ guys.
So you'll win every game by 20 instead of 40?

[Thumper 76]

So you'll win every game by 20 instead of 40?

Anybody ever tell you that you’re a bitter Montana fan xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

You do realize, of course, that six of seven PL teams outspend nearly everyone in the subdivision?
Seems like a waste of money then

According to NDSU's radio guys, next year is going to be very interesting. A lot of the top teams are extremely young this year while NDSU is graduating 20+ guys.


So you'll win every game by 20 instead of 40?

Okay, maybe this is a hot take of sorts, but I think NDSU's dominance is both overrated and properly-rated. I haven't done this yet, but if you look at the stats, teams play them a lot tougher when they run the ball well, play tough defense and don't turn it over.

Last year the Bison beat Sam Houston State, Wofford and San Diego before James Madison. San Diego was expected. Wofford turned the ball over +was inconsistent+ had a bad DC+ was down our best RB. Not saying we win that game in other circumstances, but it could have potentially not been a blowout (and even then, we weren't spectacular). Sam Houston has problems outlined in other threads.

I think NDSU is better than most teams because of their conditioning and player development and their homefield advantage intimidating opponents into make mistakes and aiding all momentum swings. A team that isn't intimidated, takes care of the football and is well-coached will be competitive with NDSU and I think if you look at the stats, it backs up this hypothesis. Lots of teams fit that mold in 2012 and (I think) 2014. It can happen, it's just pretty darn hard and the home field advantage can't be understated.

[Silenoz]

Anybody ever tell you that you’re a bitter Montana fan xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hah. No I'm a bitter Pitt Panther. Pedophile U is barely slowed down while we struggle for scraps? Unreal.

Montana is done but I'm thankful we had our run. Something along the lines of "thank god such programs lived rather than mourn that such programs are dead"


I just want FCS to be full of drama and intrigue. And I think the domination makes the subdivision as a whole look weak. Plus, SDSU is like one of the only teams that can help FCS. Do your jobs dammit!

[DFW HOYA]

Seems like a waste of money then

Top 20 FCS programs by budget (Patriot in bold):



1. James Madison University
$10,111,658


2. University of Delaware
$7,654,129


3. University of Idaho
$7,069,959


4. Fordham University
$7,060,178


5. University of Richmond
$6,740,937


6. Furman University
$6,675,863


7. Villanova University
$6,650,278


8. College of William and Mary
$6,587,516


9. Lafayette College
$6,581,062


10. Montana State University
$6,442,936


11. College of the Holy Cross
$6,162,749


12. University of Montana
$5,977,591


13. Colgate University
$5,899,143


14. Bucknell University
$5,672,257


15. Stony Brook University
$5,649,767


16. Samford University
$5,478,355


17. Elon University
$5,355,620


18. Lehigh University
$5,301,592


19. North Dakota State University
$5,281,392


20. University of New Hampshire
$5,174,334

[Professor Chaos]

Top 20 FCS programs by budget (Patriot in bold):



1. James Madison University
$10,111,658


2. University of Delaware
$7,654,129


3. University of Idaho
$7,069,959


4. Fordham University
$7,060,178


5. University of Richmond
$6,740,937


6. Furman University
$6,675,863


7. Villanova University
$6,650,278


8. College of William and Mary
$6,587,516


9. Lafayette College
$6,581,062


10. Montana State University
$6,442,936


11. College of the Holy Cross
$6,162,749


12. University of Montana
$5,977,591


13. Colgate University
$5,899,143


14. Bucknell University
$5,672,257


15. Stony Brook University
$5,649,767


16. Samford University
$5,478,355


17. Elon University
$5,355,620


18. Lehigh University
$5,301,592


19. North Dakota State University
$5,281,392


20. University of New Hampshire
$5,174,334


Hmmmm, NDSU at 19th...

[JayJ79]

This thread is about "is the FCS boring?"....under the current playoff format, not that I care that much, but it most definitely is.

not sure how the playoffs make the FCS boring.
if the FCS is boring with the playoffs, then it would be even more boring without the playoffs.

If you don't find the FCS (outside of the playoffs) boring, the playoffs themselves aren't going to make things boring. (especially if your team never qualifies for them)

[Bisonoline]

This thread is about "is the FCS boring?"....under the current playoff format, not that I care that much, but it most definitely is.

Dont see how the playoff could be boring. You win or you go home. Time to put on your big boy pants playoffs.

As a I said before---its only boring to those not playing in them.

[JayJ79]

The Ivy League's stance on football and the playoffs has nothing to do with not being able to compete. They've had nationally competitive FCS teams

how can you tell? They don't ever play the top FCS teams.

[JayJ79]

Top 20 FCS programs by budget (Patriot in bold):

what is the source on that? And is that football only budget or athletics budget in general?

[Silenoz]

Dont see how the playoff could be boring. You win or you go home. Time to put on your big boy pants playoffs.

As a I said before---its only boring to those not playing in them.

NDSU fans are probably not the best judge for what is or isn't boring at this moment in time.

Montana State should go 7-4, and (I think) make the playoffs. But as far as I can tell there is not a single person in this town who seems genuinely excited about any of that. They're already defeated, like the very nature of the thing has changed now that the outcome is already predetermined.

I'm sure some Cat fans can chime in and claim I'm wrong, but that is my perception of things.

Hell, we don't even have get to have wingbats like chattown coming in to pump up their team like we used to. There should be stray Davis and Delaware fans letting us know how good they are. And it doesn't happen anymore. Hell, with how EWU is doing you'd think we have some douchey antics from SE, but he's even MIA. Because he knows.

[DFW HOYA]

what is the source on that? And is that football only budget or athletics budget in general?

U.S. Department of Education. Football expenses only.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU seems to get a pretty damn good bang for their buck, I've gotta say.

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU fans are probably not the best judge for what is or isn't boring at this moment in time.

Montana State should go 7-4, and (I think) make the playoffs. But as far as I can tell there is not a single person in this town who seems genuinely excited about any of that. They're already defeated, like the very nature of the thing has changed now that the outcome is already predetermined.

I'm sure some Cat fans can chime in and claim I'm wrong, but that is my perception of things.

Hell, we don't even have get to have wingbats like chattown coming in to pump up their team like we used to. There should be stray Davis and Delaware fans letting us know how good they are. And it doesn't happen anymore. Hell, with how EWU is doing you'd think we have some douchey antics from SE, but he's even MIA. Because he knows.

SE won't be back until his team has a chance.

[Silenoz]

SE won't be back until his team has a chance.

So, never?

Thank god.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I still follow the SoCon and Kennesaw State. The playoffs have gotten less interesting, and it didn't start when Georgia Southern left the FCS. The decline of the Griz and CAA also caused me to lose interest. I will say that not all of the problems are incurable, though.

I think the #1 problem is that the FCS has had is that there are quality DII programs not willing to go through the long transition hell into the DI and grow their programs. The idea that the transition somehow needed to keep out the riffraff is comical when the FCS still doesn't have a scholarship minimum and certain conferences are full of teams barely able to balance the books to stay DI. There are at least several DIIs this season that could compete with FCS teams in consideration for an at-large and make things more interesting.

[Go...gate]

I personally think the Pioneer, NEC, and Patriot should just not participate in the playoffs. Give them a bowl game or something. I know there are Patriot league fans on here who disagree with me, but I think a 24 team playoff works best if everyone is on relatively even footing.

I know the MEAC, Big South, and OVC aren't exactly on the level of the MVFC, socon, big sky, and CAA, but they are more competitive than they aforementioned conferences. I think removing these conferences from autobid consideration (and giving them a bowl game or something to compete for) cuts the fat out of the playoffs in terms of making better competition. These conferences don't send at large teams to the playoffs anyway, so they wouldn't really be punishing these conferences.

That would force the geographic alignment of the conferences to be a bit more fair. Each conference except the Big Sky would have 3 conferences they could potentially play.

I believe most Patriot League fans disagree with you. This is the same dreck we have been hearing for years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FCS as a product is NOT boring, because college football isn't boring. The problem is that FCS as a product is horribly marketed and there are members of FCS that feel like they are FCSINOs. There are individual conferences and schools that do a very good job building programs, creating experiences, or both, but the overarching FCS infrastructure is too much of a loose configuration where there should be a true "FCS Commissioner" who puts the FCS in front of the cameras more often.

Also, and I say this every year, the FCS Playoffs should be shopped around as its own property and not just given to ESPN as some sort of afterthought. Fox Sports One should get the rights to the FCS Playoffs, and they would eat ESPN's lunch.

[ST_Lawson]

U.S. Department of Education. Football expenses only.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics

I've heard it said that those numbers are somewhat inaccurate. That being said, here's where the MVFC teams are budget-wise:
NDSU - $5.281
INSU - $4.049
SIU - $4.049
YSU - $4.024
ILSU - $4.017
MSU - $3.599
USD - $3.589
UNI - $3.549
SDSU - $3.357
WIU - $3.259

[Professor Chaos]

U.S. Department of Education. Football expenses only.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics
That's interesting... didn't know that existed. Just for grins I put together a list of the 25 most and least frugal teams in 2016 (which is the most recent year they have data) in terms of dollars spent per win.

Least $$$ per win:



Year
Institution Name
Conference
Football Expenses
Wins
$ per win


2016
University of San Diego
Pioneer
$1,328,169
10
$132,817


2016
University of Dayton
Pioneer
$1,232,195
9
$136,911


2016
Drake University
Pioneer
$1,028,182
7
$146,883


2016
Marist College
Pioneer
$1,281,009
5
$256,202


2016
Morehead State University
Pioneer
$1,031,156
4
$257,789


2016
Jacksonville University
Pioneer
$1,303,640
5
$260,728


2016
Southern University and A & M College
SWAC
$2,090,881
8
$261,360


2016
Valparaiso University
Pioneer
$1,108,158
4
$277,040


2016
Grambling State University
SWAC
$3,431,098
12
$285,925


2016
University of Central Arkansas
Southland
$3,090,076
10
$309,008


2016
Youngstown State University
MVFC
$4,023,675
12
$335,306


2016
Sam Houston State University
Southland
$4,520,319
12
$376,693


2016
North Carolina A & T State University
MEAC
$3,394,694
9
$377,188


2016
Duquesne University
NEC
$3,046,078
8
$380,760


2016
Jacksonville State University
OVC
$3,877,285
10
$387,729


2016
Saint Francis University
NEC
$2,841,503
7
$405,929


2016
Princeton University
Ivy League
$3,260,011
8
$407,501


2016
University of Pennsylvania
Ivy League
$2,888,337
7
$412,620


2016
Harvard University
Ivy League
$2,940,824
7
$420,118


2016
Eastern Washington University
Big Sky
$5,080,398
12
$423,367


2016
Campbell University
Pioneer
$2,150,874
5
$430,175


2016
North Dakota State University-Main Campus
MVFC
$5,281,392
12
$440,116


2016
The University of Tennessee-Martin
OVC
$3,094,252
7
$442,036


2016
Nicholls State University
Southland
$2,234,771
5
$446,954


2016
Eastern Illinois University
OVC
$2,704,490
6
$450,748





Most $$$ per win:



Year
Institution Name
Conference
Football Expenses
Wins
$ per win


2016
Austin Peay State University
OVC
$3,558,683
0
$3,584,968


2016
Delaware State University
MEAC
$3,084,881
0
$3,084,881


2016
Lafayette College
Patriot
$6,581,062
2
$3,290,531


2016
Northwestern State University of Louisiana
Southland
$3,114,629
1
$3,114,629


2016
Elon University
CAA
$5,355,620
2
$2,677,810


2016
University of Rhode Island
CAA
$4,545,687
2
$2,272,844


2016
Furman University
SOCON
$6,675,863
3
$2,225,288


2016
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff
SWAC
$2,196,521
1
$2,196,521


2016
Presbyterian College
Big South
$4,359,553
2
$2,179,777


2016
Abilene Christian University
Southland
$3,867,984
2
$1,933,992


2016
Howard University
MEAC
$3,861,351
2
$1,930,676


2016
University of Delaware
CAA
$7,654,129
4
$1,913,532


2016
California State University-Sacramento
Big Sky
$3,802,982
2
$1,901,491


2016
Idaho State University
Big Sky
$3,516,670
2
$1,758,335


2016
University of California-Davis
Big Sky
$4,900,362
3
$1,633,454


2016
Montana State University
Big Sky
$6,442,936
4
$1,610,734


2016
Western Carolina University
SOCON
$3,132,692
2
$1,566,346


2016
College of the Holy Cross
Patriot
$6,162,749
4
$1,540,687


2016
Robert Morris University
NEC
$3,069,513
2
$1,534,757


2016
Mississippi Valley State University
SWAC
$1,468,184
1
$1,468,184


2016
Lamar University
Southland
$4,389,388
3
$1,463,129


2016
Bucknell University
Patriot
$5,672,257
4
$1,418,064


2016
Eastern Kentucky University
OVC
$4,236,561
3
$1,412,187


2016
University of the Incarnate Word
Southland
$4,232,607
3
$1,410,869


2016
Central Connecticut State University
NEC
$2,793,644
2
$1,396,822





Obviously it's not an even comparison in all cases with wins against lower division and lower competition teams counting equally as wins against higher competition teams but I see this somewhat frequently for MLB teams so it's kind of interesting to see it for FCS football teams.

[TheValleyRaider]

I personally think the Pioneer, NEC, and Patriot should just not participate in the playoffs. Give them a bowl game or something. I know there are Patriot league fans on here who disagree with me, but I think a 24 team playoff works best if everyone is on relatively even footing.

I know the MEAC, Big South, and OVC aren't exactly on the level of the MVFC, socon, big sky, and CAA, but they are more competitive than they aforementioned conferences. I think removing these conferences from autobid consideration (and giving them a bowl game or something to compete for) cuts the fat out of the playoffs in terms of making better competition. These conferences don't send at large teams to the playoffs anyway, so they wouldn't really be punishing these conferences.

That would force the geographic alignment of the conferences to be a bit more fair. Each conference except the Big Sky would have 3 conferences they could potentially play.

In the last 3 years:
Pioneer: 2 playoff wins
Patriot: 2
OVC: 3
Big South: 3
MEAC: 0
Such a competitive gap xrolleyesx

I don't mean to pick on these conferences, but it needs to be pointed out that this arbitrary cutoff is dumb.

The insecurity of FCS fans in "smaller" conferences being or not being part of the playoffs is among the most ridiculous points that gets floated around here every year. As if NDSU's titles are diminished because Dayton made the playoffs one year.

By the way, love how the SoCon gets floated in with the other 3 conferences. When was the last SoCon team into the semifinals, a mark achieved by at least one of those conferences that "aren't on the same level" (and what about the Southland?).

[RootinFerDukes]

When a single program is able to win six in seven years and will likely go and make it seven in eight years.... yeah. It’s just a tad unwatchable.

[JayJ79]

I'm guessing the amount of tuition plays a big role in those budget numbers.

[cx500d]

That's interesting... didn't know that existed. Just for grins I put together a list of the 25 most and least frugal teams in 2016 (which is the most recent year they have data) in terms of dollars spent per win.

Least $$$ per win:



Year
Institution Name
Conference
Football Expenses
Wins
$ per win


2016
University of San Diego
Pioneer
$1,328,169
10
$132,817


2016
University of Dayton
Pioneer
$1,232,195
9
$136,911


2016
Drake University
Pioneer
$1,028,182
7
$146,883


2016
Marist College
Pioneer
$1,281,009
5
$256,202


2016
Morehead State University
Pioneer
$1,031,156
4
$257,789


2016
Jacksonville University
Pioneer
$1,303,640
5
$260,728


2016
Southern University and A & M College
SWAC
$2,090,881
8
$261,360


2016
Valparaiso University
Pioneer
$1,108,158
4
$277,040


2016
Grambling State University
SWAC
$3,431,098
12
$285,925


2016
University of Central Arkansas
Southland
$3,090,076
10
$309,008


2016
Youngstown State University
MVFC
$4,023,675
12
$335,306


2016
Sam Houston State University
Southland
$4,520,319
12
$376,693


2016
North Carolina A & T State University
MEAC
$3,394,694
9
$377,188


2016
Duquesne University
NEC
$3,046,078
8
$380,760


2016
Jacksonville State University
OVC
$3,877,285
10
$387,729


2016
Saint Francis University
NEC
$2,841,503
7
$405,929


2016
Princeton University
Ivy League
$3,260,011
8
$407,501


2016
University of Pennsylvania
Ivy League
$2,888,337
7
$412,620


2016
Harvard University
Ivy League
$2,940,824
7
$420,118


2016
Eastern Washington University
Big Sky
$5,080,398
12
$423,367


2016
Campbell University
Pioneer
$2,150,874
5
$430,175


2016
North Dakota State University-Main Campus
MVFC
$5,281,392
12
$440,116


2016
The University of Tennessee-Martin
OVC
$3,094,252
7
$442,036


2016
Nicholls State University
Southland
$2,234,771
5
$446,954


2016
Eastern Illinois University
OVC
$2,704,490
6
$450,748





Most $$$ per win:



Year
Institution Name
Conference
Football Expenses
Wins
$ per win


2016
Austin Peay State University
OVC
$3,558,683
0
$3,584,968


2016
Delaware State University
MEAC
$3,084,881
0
$3,084,881


2016
Lafayette College
Patriot
$6,581,062
2
$3,290,531


2016
Northwestern State University of Louisiana
Southland
$3,114,629
1
$3,114,629


2016
Elon University
CAA
$5,355,620
2
$2,677,810


2016
University of Rhode Island
CAA
$4,545,687
2
$2,272,844


2016
Furman University
SOCON
$6,675,863
3
$2,225,288


2016
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff
SWAC
$2,196,521
1
$2,196,521


2016
Presbyterian College
Big South
$4,359,553
2
$2,179,777


2016
Abilene Christian University
Southland
$3,867,984
2
$1,933,992


2016
Howard University
MEAC
$3,861,351
2
$1,930,676


2016
University of Delaware
CAA
$7,654,129
4
$1,913,532


2016
California State University-Sacramento
Big Sky
$3,802,982
2
$1,901,491


2016
Idaho State University
Big Sky
$3,516,670
2
$1,758,335


2016
University of California-Davis
Big Sky
$4,900,362
3
$1,633,454


2016
Montana State University
Big Sky
$6,442,936
4
$1,610,734


2016
Western Carolina University
SOCON
$3,132,692
2
$1,566,346


2016
College of the Holy Cross
Patriot
$6,162,749
4
$1,540,687


2016
Robert Morris University
NEC
$3,069,513
2
$1,534,757


2016
Mississippi Valley State University
SWAC
$1,468,184
1
$1,468,184


2016
Lamar University
Southland
$4,389,388
3
$1,463,129


2016
Bucknell University
Patriot
$5,672,257
4
$1,418,064


2016
Eastern Kentucky University
OVC
$4,236,561
3
$1,412,187


2016
University of the Incarnate Word
Southland
$4,232,607
3
$1,410,869


2016
Central Connecticut State University
NEC
$2,793,644
2
$1,396,822





Obviously it's not an even comparison in all cases with wins against lower division and lower competition teams counting equally as wins against higher competition teams but I see this somewhat frequently for MLB teams so it's kind of interesting to see it for FCS football teams.


Wow, the main campus.... How much does the downtown campus spend per win?

[Bisonoline]

Did you see the UCF Temple game last night? THAT was a fun one.

Maction!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Because some schools ceiling at the FCS level is only so high. The vast majority of FCS (a great program like Delaware has 1 National Title) always relied on the "stars to align" type of season in order to break through. The top programs had maybe 3-4 teams a decade capable of winning a title. NDSU has made it that you need to field a top tier FBS type program at the FCS level in order to compete. That's simply not feasible for 95+% (hell, 99%) of FCS because that's not the mission.


xrolleyesx

Answer to the title: No

To the rest of the plebs of the FCS....step up your game.

[Laker]

xrolleyesx

Answer to the title: No

To the rest of the plebs of the FCS....step up your game.

If you want to be the best, beat the best.

[Big Dawg]

xrolleyesx

Answer to the title: No

To the rest of the plebs of the FCS....step up your game.

We already beat NCA&T...pipe down xcoolxxsmiley_wix

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Maction!!!!!!!!!!!

More like AACTION!! xnodx

[Herder]

I'm still thinking we'll end up with the P5 conferences forming I-A, the G5 and 1/4 of the FCS teams in I-AA , and the leftovers in I-AAA with a 45 scholarship limit.

There is no reason or incentive for the P5 to do anything. They use the G5 for their OOC win purposes, and lock them out of the playoff. They throw 1 new year day bid at the G5 to appease them. The G5 is spineless and being used to support their major college football fantasy, but there 70 teams have zero shot at a national title or playoff position. Spineless . . . They should insist on playoff expansion and access for their conference.

The Pioneer league and SWAC (which the SWAC casts aside) have direct playoff access in the FCS for goodness sakes, why can’t the G5 get limited access? Access for G5, defined as being allowed to have play-in games to get into the playoff. Bottom 6 FBS Conf champs play-in for 3 spots in 12 team field for instance. Something . . . Show some spine or start a G5 playoff.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

We already beat NCA&T...pipe down xcoolxxsmiley_wix



NDSU would go winless in the MEAC.....

[Pard4Life]

Of course FCS is boring... LeHigh is terrible and has dragged FCS down with them

[walliver]

FCS games are as exciting as they ever were.

The playoffs have lost a little with the expansion from 16 to 24. First round games are of interest primarily only to fans of the teams involved.

The playoffs will not be as interesting as they were until NDSU plays a playoff game on the road. It will happen at some point, but not anytime soon. The excitement won’t return until the MVFC steps up to compete with NDSU - otherwise the Buffaloburgers will continue to get 1 or 2 seeds and home field all the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ST_Lawson]

The excitement won’t return until the MVFC steps up to compete with NDSU - otherwise the Buffaloburgers will continue to get 1 or 2 seeds and home field all the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I understand what you're saying, but do you really want most of the MVFC to be as good as NDSU? I get that it means that NDSU would actually have a loss or two sometimes, but it also means that any of the decent MVFC teams would probably crush anyone outside of the conference, including most in the playoffs.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big Dawg]

NDSU would go winless in the MEAC.....

Southern speed...

[Reign of Terrier]

The MVFC is as competitive with NDSU in the playoffs as the rest of the FCS. Some close ones, some double digits losses, etc.

Like all conferences, the MVFC is competitive with each other. NDSU gets their seed because they make plays and win close games. It's not because they are a standard deviation better than the rest of the conference, but because they are more clutch.

The only way that changes is if NDSU plays a tough OOC schedule and drops 1-2 or if a couple plays go against them in conference play.

What makes NDSU an interesting team isn't that they are head and shoulders better than everyone they play during the regular season. They aren't. If you compare how they play their conference, most years it's comparable to other conference champions in other conferences.

What separates NDSU from the rest of the subdivision is 1) the consistency they win their conference (comparable to other dynasties) and 2) (most importantly) how they just turn things on to another level in the playoffs.



Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The MVFC is as competitive with NDSU in the playoffs as the rest of the FCS. Some close ones, some double digits losses, etc.

Like all conferences, the MVFC is competitive with each other. NDSU gets their seed because they make plays and win close games. It's not because they are a standard deviation better than the rest of the conference, but because they are more clutch.

The only way that changes is if NDSU plays a tough OOC schedule and drops 1-2 or if a couple plays go against them in conference play.

What makes NDSU an interesting team isn't that they are head and shoulders better than everyone they play during the regular season. They aren't. If you compare how they play their conference, most years it's comparable to other conference champions in other conferences.

What separates NDSU from the rest of the subdivision is 1) the consistency they win their conference (comparable to other dynasties) and 2) (most importantly) how they just turn things on to another level in the playoffs.



Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


NDSU in '16 played top 10 Charleston Southern and Eastern Washington. Plus a #11 FBS Iowa.

There is no reason for NDSU to schedule like this every year.

- - - Updated - - -


Southern speed...


SWAC teams would roll NDSU also....

[Big Dawg]

- - - Updated - - -




SWAC teams would roll NDSU also....

Arkansas Pine-Bluff by 21

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Arkansas Pine-Bluff by 21


...after the 1st quarter....

[TheKingpin28]

Southern speed...

Now you're getting it.

[Bison56]

Southern speed...

And its hot

[Bisonator]

You still bored watching your wildcats dismantle JMU?

[Bisonoline]

Southern speed...


Jay Walker??? Is that you????

[Professor Chaos]

Well now rest of the FCS... if a 3-6 Youngstown St, who lost to a last place Pioneer League team at home, can hang with the mighty Bison in the Fargodome surely your team can as well? Right???

[JayJ79]

The excitement won’t return until the MVFC steps up to compete with NDSU

because it is obvious that no one outside the conference can compete with them, not even FBS teams.

[JayJ79]

One thing that makes the FCS boring is how it is quite often the same matchups year in and year out for many teams in the first/second rounds of the playoffs (with that second round often being a repeat of a regular season matchup).
boooooring.

[Catatonic]

No! The FCS is as fun as ever. Sure, NDSU is great but their reign will end like all dynasties do. This season is much more “wide open” IMO. There are new teams competing at a high level like we haven’t seen in a while, if ever. (KSU, ETSU, Idaho St, UCD, UIW, SEMO, ect.) IMO, that makes it fun.

Even though Sam is a weak bubble team with a minimal shot at the playoffs, I still enjoy the subdivision.

boring certainly does not describe the SLC this year.

[Mattymc727]

How exciting...

[BisonFan02]

How exciting...

Get better.

[Scooter]

Get better.
Yep.
Kenneshaw, SDSU, JMU, EWU, ILL ST, Montana, Montana St, UNI, YSU, Maine, Delaware, Richmond, W Ill just need to up their game. Don't look for NDSU to come back down...just get better.

[UNHWildcat18]

Yawn........Also Bison fans for the love of god, please stop saying get better. Not like our teams aren’t trying to.....Also doesn’t change the fact...

Good luck to both teams, I won’t be watching NDSU win their 7th title in 8 years.... no interest

[BisonBacker]

Yawn........Also Bison fans for the love of god, please stop saying get better. Not like our teams aren’t trying to.....Also doesn’t change the fact...

Good luck to both teams, I won’t be watching NDSU win their 7th title in 8 years.... no interest

Man if all the great people in history that accomplished great feats had your attitude men and woman would accomplish little. If it was supposed to be easy it wouldn't mean anything. If you have kids I sure hope you give them more encouragement when they fail at something then to just say "it's to hard just give up".

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Man if all the great people in history that accomplished great feats had your attitude men and woman would accomplish little. If it was supposed to be easy it wouldn't mean anything. If you have kids I sure hope you give them more encouragement when they fail at something then to just say "it's to hard just give up".


This here.

The FCS is not boring but all of these other team's fans gnashing their teeth about this is hilarious.

Simple fact is get better and knock the king off the throne.

[PaladinFan]

It is what it is. The FBS is in a similar position - one dominant team nobody can seem to figure out how to beat.

I remain firm in my opinion that the playoffs should go back to 16 teams. No bye week for seeds, force everyone to play a top 15 team right out of the gate and not have to wait three weeks before playing a team that can actually beat them.

[Professor Chaos]

It is what it is. The FBS is in a similar position - one dominant team nobody can seem to figure out how to beat.

I remain firm in my opinion that the playoffs should go back to 16 teams. No bye week for seeds, force everyone to play a top 15 team right out of the gate and not have to wait three weeks before playing a team that can actually beat them.
If that was the case this year you'd have NDSU down 2-4 RBs and, from what I hear, a very banged up EWU defense playing in the title game. It also allows for more fans to make it to the game. The championship game product on the field is better due to the layoff. That said I wouldn't mind them always doing a 2 week layoff between the semis and title game instead of 3 (which means playing the title games before New Year's in a lot of years). I think next year it'll just be a two week layoff.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It is what it is. The FBS is in a similar position - one dominant team nobody can seem to figure out how to beat.

I remain firm in my opinion that the playoffs should go back to 16 teams. No bye week for seeds, force everyone to play a top 15 team right out of the gate and not have to wait three weeks before playing a team that can actually beat them.


24 is just fine with how it is step up now.

NDSU just played the #5 team...but #2 IMO. And played a top 10 Colgate team with the best defense in the history of the FCS......your argument holds no water.

[TennBison]

Yawn........Also Bison fans for the love of god, please stop saying get better. Not like our teams aren’t trying to.....Also doesn’t change the fact...

Good luck to both teams, I won’t be watching NDSU win their 7th title in 8 years.... no interest
This is a classic example of what this thread asks. He has no interest in the title game. And for the most part, my guess is that any person that is not a fan of either team is cheering to watch NDSU lose. Not because they are a fan of EWU, but because they hate the fact that NDSU has been so good. Well I myself do not care what is good for the FCS, and can see the point of why fans of other teams don't want to see or care if NDSU wins. I don't give a rats butt if any team outside of NDSU wins anything. NDSU is my team and if we were to win the next 48 out of 50 national championships that would be great in my book. I am not a fan of other teams, but I do respect a few, but in the end if your team has a good season or drops football.........I could care less. The loss of a team or two from the FCS is not going to make the division close up, and if it remains boring because NDSU keeps cranking out national championships it will not make me stop going to games. The survival of the FCS and its popularity comes from individual teams and their fans. Some schools are doing their part, while others are not, and that is the problem, not the fact that NDSU has made it boring by winning to much.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This is a classic example of what this thread asks. He has no interest in the title game. And for the most part, my guess is that any person that is not a fan of either team is cheering to watch NDSU lose. Not because they are a fan of EWU, but because they hate the fact that NDSU has been so good. Well I myself do not care what is good for the FCS, and can see the point of why fans of other teams don't want to see or care if NDSU wins. I don't give a rats butt if any team outside of NDSU wins anything. NDSU is my team and if we were to win the next 48 out of 50 national championships that would be great in my book. I am not a fan of other teams, but I do respect a few, but in the end if your team has a good season or drops football.........I could care less. The loss of a team or two from the FCS is not going to make the division close up, and if it remains boring because NDSU keeps cranking out national championships it will not make me stop going to games. The survival of the FCS and its popularity comes from individual teams and their fans. Some schools are doing their part, while others are not, and that is the problem, not the fact that NDSU has made it boring by winning to much.


Best 2 sentences in this whole thread!

xthumbsupx

[walliver]

The FCS is no more boring than I-AA.

For the overwhelming majority of FCS fans, the season ends when their teams' season end. It has always been that way ... and it is not going to change. The Cult of AGS has always been a niche crowd.

Maybe it's boring for NDSU fans. We heard the same arguments ad nauseam from App State and Georgia Southern fans. They moved on to greener pastures, but now play in a league where only one member didn't come from FCS/I-AA. Essentially, they are playing many off the same teams they played before. And the Sun Belt season is now over.

There are too many FCS playoff teams and too many mediocre bowl games.

I would favor reducing the playoff field back to 16 and giving every team an extra regular season game every year.

[TennBison]

Best 2 sentences in this whole thread!

xthumbsupx
​What.............you didn't like the part about winning 48 out of the next 50 national championships?????????

[POD Knows]

​What.............you didn't like the part about winning 48 out of the next 50 national championships?????????
He wasn't happy with the two years we weren't champs.

[TennBison]

The FCS is no more boring than I-AA.

For the overwhelming majority of FCS fans, the season ends when their teams' season end. It has always been that way ... and it is not going to change. The Cult of AGS has always been a niche crowd.

Maybe it's boring for NDSU fans. We heard the same arguments ad nauseam from App State and Georgia Southern fans. They moved on to greener pastures, but now play in a league where only one member didn't come from FCS/I-AA. Essentially, they are playing many off the same teams they played before. And the Sun Belt season is now over.

There are too many FCS playoff teams and too many mediocre bowl games.

I would favor reducing the playoff field back to 16 and giving every team an extra regular season game every year.
This is all true, nicely put.

[caribbeanhen]

boring no, but way to predictable....

It's like they will tell us in 50 years .... Yea, that NDST run was all just an experiment too see how a top 20 FBS team would do playing in FCS, the results were very predictable

The Bison are hands down too good for FCS

The scary part is the gap between the Bison and FCS is growing wider ......

I mean it's to the point if the Bison get beat it will be like the day Appy State beat Michigan

[DFW HOYA]

Boring? No. Irrelevant? Perhaps.

The playoff structure has been very, very good to NDSU and those handful of schools which can take advantage of playing at home every week until Frisco. It's great if you belong to the subdivision's version of the power conferences that account for the majority of at-large bids. If you're in the Big South, Ivy, MEAC, NEC, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Pioneer, or SWAC, your chances of playoff success are slim to none.

Some shudder and ask why the Ivy League won't participate in the playoffs. Are they obstinate? Sure. But Harvard-Yale still outdraws every playoff game in the subdivision. Why? The Celebration Bowl did, too. That's no accident. These are a group of schools (and they may well be others down the road) who see a game they control as vastly preferable to getting 400 tickets and paying for a trip to Fargo or Cheney as a consolation prize for a great season.

[Professor Chaos]

Boring? No. Irrelevant? Perhaps.

The playoff structure has been very, very good to NDSU and those handful of schools which can take advantage of playing at home every week until Frisco. It's great if you belong to the subdivision's version of the power conferences that account for the majority of at-large bids. If you're in the Big South, Ivy, MEAC, NEC, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Pioneer, or SWAC, your chances of playoff success are slim to none.

Some shudder and ask why the Ivy League won't participate in the playoffs. Are they obstinate? Sure. But Harvard-Yale still outdraws every playoff game in the subdivision. Why? The Celebration Bowl did, too. That's no accident. These are a group of schools (and they may well be others down the road) who see a game they control as vastly preferable to getting 400 tickets and paying for a trip to Fargo or Cheney as a consolation prize for a great season.
So honest question. Do you think Colgate's players/coaches/fans/admin would've been happier with the postseason if they played some neutral site bowl game against Princeton instead of beating JMU at home and then falling at NDSU like they did?

[Kramden]

I'm not a fan of either team but rooting for the Bison since I can't help but be impressed with the program that has been built and they win the right way. Maybe I'm just too old school but they are a pleasure to watch. Hope it's a good game.
This is a classic example of what this thread asks. He has no interest in the title game. And for the most part, my guess is that any person that is not a fan of either team is cheering to watch NDSU lose. Not because they are a fan of EWU, but because they hate the fact that NDSU has been so good. Well I myself do not care what is good for the FCS, and can see the point of why fans of other teams don't want to see or care if NDSU wins. I don't give a rats butt if any team outside of NDSU wins anything. NDSU is my team and if we were to win the next 48 out of 50 national championships that would be great in my book. I am not a fan of other teams, but I do respect a few, but in the end if your team has a good season or drops football.........I could care less. The loss of a team or two from the FCS is not going to make the division close up, and if it remains boring because NDSU keeps cranking out national championships it will not make me stop going to games. The survival of the FCS and its popularity comes from individual teams and their fans. Some schools are doing their part, while others are not, and that is the problem, not the fact that NDSU has made it boring by winning to much.

[Hammerhead]

Which is no different than basketball where many conferences get one autobid for March Madness and ends up being a 15 or 16 seed.

I would really love to see 3 subdivisions with the P5 on their own, G5 and top 1/3 of the FCS that really cares about trying to win a championship, and the rest in glorified D-II.



Boring? No. Irrelevant? Perhaps.

The playoff structure has been very, very good to NDSU and those handful of schools which can take advantage of playing at home every week until Frisco. It's great if you belong to the subdivision's version of the power conferences that account for the majority of at-large bids. If you're in the Big South, Ivy, MEAC, NEC, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Pioneer, or SWAC, your chances of playoff success are slim to none.

Some shudder and ask why the Ivy League won't participate in the playoffs. Are they obstinate? Sure. But Harvard-Yale still outdraws every playoff game in the subdivision. Why? The Celebration Bowl did, too. That's no accident. These are a group of schools (and they may well be others down the road) who see a game they control as vastly preferable to getting 400 tickets and paying for a trip to Fargo or Cheney as a consolation prize for a great season.

[tigonian02]

Perhaps I'm not seeing straight due to my usual favorite finally underperforming this season, but it seems to me more than just this season. I've become more apathetic to the FCS over the last few seasons and I'm wondering if its due to a few reasons?

Lack of parity? NDSU has certainly taken any hopes and dreams away for most programs
Lack of talent? Seems like less and less top talent play in the FCS as a whole? I could be wrong, but it seems the FCS superstars of today aren't as interesting as the FCS superstars of days past
changing of the guard? Some of the old powerhouses that might have challenged NDSU have either moved on the FBS or fallen off track. Montana, UD, GSU, App State, UNI et al don't seem to have the talent they used to.

Anyone else feel like me?
I agree

[NDSUtk]

boring no, but way to predictable....

It's like they will tell us in 50 years .... Yea, that NDST run was all just an experiment too see how a top 20 FBS team would do playing in FCS, the results were very predictable

The Bison are hands down too good for FCS

The scary part is the gap between the Bison and FCS is growing wider ......

I mean it's to the point if the Bison get beat it will be like the day Appy State beat MichiganBison are 17 in this week's Sagarin ratings. Can't remember if that's our highest rating or if we were higher in 2013

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2018/team/

Looks like a 13 point favorite over EWU (#68).

[caribbeanhen]

Bison are 17 in this week's Sagarin ratings. Can't remember if that's our highest rating or if we were higher in 2013

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2018/team/

Looks like a 13 point favorite over EWU (#68).

#17 sounds about right! You want me to root for the Bison, play a top 20 FBS team and I will but a Bison avatar up

[RootinFerDukes]

It is what it is. The FBS is in a similar position - one dominant team nobody can seem to figure out how to beat.

I remain firm in my opinion that the playoffs should go back to 16 teams. No bye week for seeds, force everyone to play a top 15 team right out of the gate and not have to wait three weeks before playing a team that can actually beat them.

That team is a glorified NFL team that some NFL teams won’t beat. NDSU is a glorified high end G5 team that most FCS do not have the recruiting ability to compete with.

Most G5 and lower half P5 wouldn’t beat ndsu.

[NDSUtk]

#17 sounds about right! You want me to root for the Bison, play a top 20 FBS team and I will but a Bison avatar up2020 that should happen again. Head out to play Oregon. Glad it's not next year. I think the Bison lose 2 or 3 regular season games next year. Breaking in new coach and new QB. There will be some mistakes made. Plus we usually lose a game in the regular season to a conference foe..:
2011 9-0 NDSU loses to 5-4 Youngstown;
2012 loss to Indiana State when Brock Jenson threw 2 TDs to Indiana State defenders...ISUb didn't score a TD on offense that day and beat us.
2013 was golden.
2014 got boat raced down at UNI ending the 33 game win streak.
2015 lost to Montana to start the year in a good game and then the loss to USD at home...ugly.
2016 and 2017 losses to good SDSU teams.

Next year, I think we slip up against Delaware or UC Davis in non-conference play. And I think we drop 1 or 2 during conference play. That will put us on the road in the playoffs and all of the FCS can rejoice.

[Gil Dobie]

I found FCS to be the highest level of football that is not boring. No longer care for the meaningless bowls, and the FBS championship is 3 games, and that's it. NFL is all about offense, so I only watch Green Bay and Philly games when they are available in Viking land. NFL = 12 minutes of action.

[Srdnaty]

Bison are 17 in this week's Sagarin ratings. Can't remember if that's our highest rating or if we were higher in 2013

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2018/team/

Looks like a 13 point favorite over EWU (#68).

And Maine at 129 well below everyone they beat in the playoffs? Those ratings are not perfect.

NDSU is definitely top 25, but I'm not sure they are better than a UCF or TAMU.

[jmu007]

In my opinion, the Bison vs any FBS team would be entirely dependent on the matchup. I could picture them easily competing with a lot of power teams (Iowa, KSU, most of Big Ten outside of OSU, etc) that don't have the speed on the outside, but if they faced a P5 team with speed and a QB it would be the same result as everyone else... 3+ score margin.

I'm really looking forward to JMU's game vs WVU in 2019 for this very same reason. Finally get to face someone without a 1st round QB.

[Hammerhead]

The 2013 Bison team finished the year at #17. On a side note. Sagarin has the 2013 Bison favored by 3 points over this year's team.



Bison are 17 in this week's Sagarin ratings. Can't remember if that's our highest rating or if we were higher in 2013

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2018/team/

Looks like a 13 point favorite over EWU (#68).

[Reign of Terrier]

I may have commented on this thread before but I will do so again. I think there are three ways FCS can be boring.

It can be boring to the person who would never watch it in the first place. No need to cater to them.

It can be boring to the person who, given the right circumstances, may watch and be entertained.

And it can be boring to the person who likes FCS football.

I think we are in a weird situation because the first group will never be entertained. The second group is probably adequately entertained because they don't watch FCS football that much and NDSU being in the headlines can make a compelling narrative that you watch just to see greatness.

Everyone on this board is the third group. Everyone but Bison fans are bored by the domination. There's like 2% of the novelty there was at this level a decade ago. It was a big deal when App made a three peat because it hadn't been done before.

I'm okay with one team or a group of teams winning the title 50% of the time in 10-20 year span. But when that number edges up above 80% like it is now, it's snoozeville.

What makes sports entertaining is the narrative, novelty and variation. If you're a casual viewer who only watches the championship because it's on ESPN, you're fine with this because you don't have a baseline to judge these things. But if you're hard core like those on here...it's pretty much evaporated.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[NDSUKurt]

Yes, the playoffs have become boring.

The problem is that even though there are 125 FCS teams, only around half actually care about putting quality teams together and/or participating in the playoffs.

Consider this:

Most SWAC teams care more about their classics and matchups with other HBCS's, as well as getting paid with guarantee games than actually trying to be relevant in the FCS world.

The IVY League is too snobby to participate in an 11 (or the occasional 12) game schedule and the playoffs.

The MEAC tries to make the playoffs, but they are focused on petty infighting (see the Hampton issue) and getting lots of quarantee games.

The Patriot League has teams that are not willing to spend money to improve themselves (Georgetown) and they won't schedule better games - they are totally fine scheduling majority IVY League opponents.

The Pioneer League will never get more than the league winner in the playoffs (although they have achieved recent success).


Therefore teams from the major FCS Conferences will always have a better chance to make the playoffs. But some of these teams are recent start ups and teams using football to pay their entire athletic budget.

This ultimately means the established programs will always "be in the mix" and thus the playoffs will almost always be the same old thing.

As a graduate of NDSU, I am happy. If it was a different team that was winning the way NDSU has, I would be bored with the playoffs and their success, but I would want my team to get better, not have the top team fall back to mediocrity.

[PaladinFan]

In my opinion, the Bison vs any FBS team would be entirely dependent on the matchup. I could picture them easily competing with a lot of power teams (Iowa, KSU, most of Big Ten outside of OSU, etc) that don't have the speed on the outside, but if they faced a P5 team with speed and a QB it would be the same result as everyone else... 3+ score margin.

I'm really looking forward to JMU's game vs WVU in 2019 for this very same reason. Finally get to face someone without a 1st round QB.

There are several levels of college football, regardless of classification.

NDSU is probably in the upper spot of what I consider the third level (the G5 and upper level FCS teams). Group them with the App States, Georgia Southerns, and Fresno States of the world.

The second level of college football are most of the P5. NDSU can compete with and beat these teams. I don't think they'd fare well against a full slate of those teams.

The first level of college football are a select handful of teams (Geogia, Alabama, Clemson). NDSU would lose by 30 like everyone else does. The gap between these teams and the rest of college football is enormous.

[Sader87]

The FCS playoffs have become boring....but it's still a good level of football in general.

[thebootfitter]

There are several levels of college football, regardless of classification.

NDSU is probably in the upper spot of what I consider the third level (the G5 and upper level FCS teams). Group them with the App States, Georgia Southerns, and Fresno States of the world.

The second level of college football are most of the P5. NDSU can compete with and beat these teams. I don't think they'd fare well against a full slate of those teams.

The first level of college football are a select handful of teams (Geogia, Alabama, Clemson). NDSU would lose by 30 like everyone else does. The gap between these teams and the rest of college football is enormous.
Based on your distinctions, I mostly agree.

Except that I don't think there's any objective evidence to suggest that NDSU would fare any worse against a full slate of P5 teams than any other P5 team. (Particularly if you gave them the benefit of an additional 22 schollies.) They already have tremendous depth and likely have an advantage in strength and conditioning. (Just watch the K-State or Iowa or Iowa State games to see the difference in conditioning that shows up in the fourth quarter.)

Oh... and I think NDSU would have a fair chance at losing to the very top teams by something closer to 20-21 rather than 30. :p

[Hammerhead]

Going back to 2007 (the oldest year available on gobison.com), NDSU's average margin of victory goes up in the playoffs. The average score in the regular season including some FBS opponents is 33-16. In the playoffs, the average score is 34-14.

[clenz]

Yes. But it doesn't have to do with ndsu.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I stand by this


Then again, maybe it has more to do with things outside of football in my life than the football itself. I'm sure that's part of it, but it's largely not the main reason.

[kalm]

Put me in the "get better" camp.

Here's what's not boring.

Playing the UW tight in two recent games and looking forward to another next year.

Beating a top 25 Oregon State that went bowling.

Beating Wazzu in a year they finished 8-4.

Taking newbies to games at Washington Grizzly Stadium to show them what real football fans are like and how miraculous it is that EWU is even competitive with not to mention has been dominant lately over the Griz.

Watching Cooper Kupp tear up NFL defenses, Samson Ebukam have a scoop 6 and pick 6 and two hurries on MNF, and Kendrick Bourne catch some touchdowns for the Niners.

Going on multiple runs and seeing EWU occasionally dominate the Spokane Media market over Wazzu and Gonzaga hoops.

Home playoff games in December and 12-15 game seasons...preceded by terrific tailgates with fans from places like Jacksonville, AL and Thibodeaux, LA...many of which have been last second victories (and sometimes defeats) against FCS schools from all over the US where the speed of the game is picked up, the hits come harder, and the level of talent is great...oh...and played on the most beautiful sprint turf in the history of the world. xnodx

FCS is outstanding and with the SLC showing improvement and some new faces in the playoffs like Davis, KSU and ETSU there's plenty more room for competition at the top.