Georgetown FB player in NYT hatchet job

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The main thrust of this article is about a Georgetown basketball player (no longer with the program, but is currently at Delaware) who appears to have been accepted into Georgetown while having terrible grades.

In and of itself, the article is already trying to really make unnecessary trouble for Georgetown. But there is a football-related part to this: near the end of the article, in a vain effort to boost the writer's point, he resorts to intimating that Georgetown football also doesn't have rigorous standards for admission.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/sports/ncaabasketball/30georgetown.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


A student, John Kaszuba, said he scored just a 1170 on the SAT but was admitted in part because he played football.

“It’s real embarrassing to take a kid like that,” said Kaszuba, a junior who no longer plays football. “I can’t really see where they thought he was going to make it here.”

I really get outraged by lazy reporters who already have one conclusion already made up, and then twists the facts in order to make his story - implying that Georgetown is somehow shelving their standards in order to bring in better football players. If this a$$ had decided to make a few more clicks on the world-wide-interweb, he would have known that the football team HAS to adhere to academic standards in order to admit students. Even if the football team wanted to shuffle him into the program, he'd have to get through the admissions office and a peer review from all the admissions officers in the league.

When you see that he's hasn't bothered to do any research when dropping this information, it puts the rest of his accusations in question. Grrr!!!! xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx xmadx

[Mr. C]

I can't say much about the football aspect, but Georgetown has been notorious for years with some of its admissions for basketball (anybody remember David Graham?).

[aswedc]

Hmm, let's see. Former Georgetown football player in his own words vs. you, apparently a Lehigh fan. Yup, I think I'll believe the kid when he says he was admitted in part because of football. Are you really trying to say you know more about the circumstances of his admission than he does?

As for the rest of the article, I don't think any emphasis of the writers point is necessary. The facts speak for themselves. 12 Fs and admission to a supposedly elite academic institution?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hmm, let's see. Former Georgetown football player in his own words vs. you, apparently a Lehigh fan. Yup, I think I'll believe the kid when he says he was admitted in part because of football. Are you really trying to say you know more about the circumstances of his admission than he does?

As for the rest of the article, I don't think any emphasis of the writers point is necessary. The facts speak for themselves. 12 Fs and admission to a supposedly elite academic institution?

I actually know quite a bit in terms of Patriot League admissions. You're about to find that out. But first, let's mention the first part of your statement. Was he admitted *in part* because he could play football? Yes. Yes that is true. However, if you condemn him for THAT, you may as well be against admission based on any talent anyone may have. Valerie Valedictorian, champion cellist, is admitted *in part* because she is a champion cellist. So what? If they can handle the academic workload and graduate, they can go to school there.

Now that we've talked about why some kids with great skills are admitted to schools, let's talk about the Patriot League. As part of the Patriot League, Georgetown football athletes have to adhere to a policy of rating football recruits and measuring their academic performance in high school. Called the Academic Index, it's a way to standardize football recruits to make sure that their academic standing is up to the academic standards of the rest of the class. It's similar to the way the Ivy League admits students.

Kaszuba, then, got an internal rating by the school (which, by the way, does not only include SAT scores, but also measures academic achievement such as GPA, weighted class rank, etc.) The decision of his admittance came from the admissions office (not the athletic department). Then the list of those football admits were peer-reviewed by the other Patriot League schools, further discouraging cheating.

Finally, his aid package (if he applies for one) would be somewhat determined by need. Georgetown offers grants-in-aid for student with demonstrated need (and fewer than other Patriot League schools, by many folks' admission). This is not the same as full scholarships in which athletes are given full rides based on their ability to play football (or basketball, or wrestling, or hockey, or softball...).

I can't speak to the basketball side of this article, but if Georgetown were cheating in football, it would be rapidly discovered by the rest of the league. Ironically, the Patriot League's method of peer review and analysis of academic standing sounds exactly like the sort of program he would like to be bringing up as an example of responsible recruiting.

So, yes, maybe I know a little more than this college junior on this subject.

[aswedc]

Um, ok. So what exactly are you complaining about? The article says he was admitted in part because of football. Not that he was admitted because he played football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A student, John Kaszuba, said he scored just a 1170 on the SAT but was admitted in part because he played football.

“It’s real embarrassing to take a kid like that,” said Kaszuba, a junior who no longer plays football. “I can’t really see where they thought he was going to make it here.”

The implication of the article is that somehow Kaszuba was the beneficiary of lax admissions standards in order to get into the football program. The "proof" of this is mentioned in his SAT score. Furthermore, he's "no longer with the team" - implying that if HE got in with an SAT score below the mean, on can only WONDER about the rest of the team.

[Peems]

How did he get in since he was well below Georgetown's academic standards?

[Go...gate]

I can't say much about the football aspect, but Georgetown has been notorious for years with some of its admissions for basketball (anybody remember David Graham?).

Michael Graham.

[DFW HOYA]

Michael Graham.

Fot the record, Michael Graham wasn't a Prop 48 case or a prep school kid. he graduated late from high school and for 1983, that was a pretty big deal. People saw the bald head and assumed a lot of things about him, but he proved them wrong. Today, he is married, a father of five and a successful businessman in South Carolina.

As for Kaszuba, he saw action for all of one game in his two years and collected all of one tackle against St. Francis before leaving the team two years ago. Maybe the reporter went down the roster until someone returned his call, but the student's comments come off as uninformed and unrepresentative of his former team.

Of course, the article also raises this issue--why is the NYTimes collecting transcripts from high schools without the parent's permission?

[Go...gate]

Fot the record, Michael Graham wasn't a Prop 48 case or a prep school kid. he graduated late from high school and for 1983, that was a pretty big deal. People saw the bald head and assumed a lot of things about him, but he proved them wrong. Today, he is married, a father of five and a successful businessman in South Carolina.

As for Kaszuba, he saw action for all of one game in his two years and collected all of one tackle against St. Francis before leaving the team two years ago. Maybe the reporter went down the roster until someone returned his call, but the student's comments come off as uninformed and unrepresentative of his former team.

Of course, the article also raises this issue--why is the NYTimes collecting transcripts from high schools without the parent's permission?

No offense intended. Just wanted to correct the record. He had a great Final Four in '84.

[TheValleyRaider]

This is from the same sports section that can't seem to get scores of local sporting events from the night before. If I actually had to rely on the Times for the score of last night's Islanders game, I'd still be waiting. Terrible section, can't say I'm really surprised xtwocentsx

[colgate13]

1170 for a PL football recruit isn't bad. 1170 for many PL schools 'special' kids (athletic and non-athletic) isn't too bad. When you get south of 1000, then you've got a story of a kid who doesn't belong where he got in.

[ngineer]

'13' beat me to it. While 1170 would certainly be below Georgetown's average or median SAT, it isn't a horrible score, either. Most schools only weigh the SAT probably no more than 30-35% of the total admission package. Lehigh's incoming freshman class has SAT's averaging 1367. I think the standard deviation from a school's average SAT (as opposed to median) is around 200 points, so this would be near such range, though I suspect Georgetown's average SAT is slightly higher.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

13 and ng, you guys did a great job of illustrating that the NYT writer doesn't know what he's talking about. 1170 is not a terrible number for a football recruit, and SAT is NOT the only criteria for admission (PL schools weigh in-class performance more than simply SAT scores). Clearly he's trying to imply that Georgetown is sliding in football recruits that are not qualified to get into the school, which is complete and utter hogwash. By definition (and through peer review) he HAS to be within the Academic Index.

[Go...gate]

1170 for a PL football recruit isn't bad. 1170 for many PL schools 'special' kids (athletic and non-athletic) isn't too bad. When you get south of 1000, then you've got a story of a kid who doesn't belong where he got in.

Missed you, 13!! Welcome back!! :)

[colgate13]

Of course, we forgot to mention that for our friends at Holy Cross, sometimes we'll NEVER know what their SAT scores were! :)

J/K btw - I don't know exactly how the PL has handled that SAT optional issue this past year... I guess to calculate the AI they have to have it, but I would venture that they could choose to omit it from other things if the student-athlete didn't want to submit it. Anyone know?

[colorless raider]

Of course, we forgot to mention that for our friends at Holy Cross, sometimes we'll NEVER know what their SAT scores were! :)

J/K btw - I don't know exactly how the PL has handled that SAT optional issue this past year... I guess to calculate the AI they have to have it, but I would venture that they could choose to omit it from other things if the student-athlete didn't want to submit it. Anyone know?
There are numerous examples of schools taking AI exceptions. What needs to be policed better is the number of AI exceptions taken by each school.