What conference next in line to receive auto bid...

[appfan2008]

what conference will be the next to recieve an auto bid to the playoffs...
great west?
big south?
other?

or are any conferences in jeopardy of losing their auto bid...

[crunifan]

Definitely not the Great West now that NDSU and SDSU left for the Gateway. They only have 3 teams left.

I think the Big South probably.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Big South, even if San Diego gets schollys and joins, the GWFC would have to wait until 2013 or 2014 to even be looked at for an auto bid.

[TheValleyRaider]

Big South or NEC before the Great West, just given that conference's uncertain future. However, I wouldn't be holding my breath for them to take away one of the births from PL/MEAC/OVC.

Best bet for them might be if the MEAC goes ahead again with some postseason game vs. SWAC, thereby taking themselves out of the playoffs. Not saying it's likely, but it'd probably take a lot to remove a conference's autobid xtwocentsx

[appfan2008]

I think there should be a rule about your conference must win one game every like 5 years to keep your bid or something because some of these pl/meac/ovc just arent cutting it recently

some old timers might know but how did conferences get their bids in the first place i am sure when the playoffs started it wasnt just these 8... anybody know how that took place???

[TheValleyRaider]

I think there should be a rule about your conference must win one game every like 5 years to keep your bid or something because some of these pl/meac/ovc just arent cutting it recently

In my own conference's defense, 2003 was our last victory: Colgate over Florida Atlantic in the Semifinals. In other words, before 2005, we had more Title game appearances than you xsmiley_wix

[walliver]

I think there should be a rule about your conference must win one game every like 5 years to keep your bid or something because some of these pl/meac/ovc just arent cutting it recently

some old timers might know but how did conferences get their bids in the first place i am sure when the playoffs started it wasnt just these 8... anybody know how that took place???

The problem with the win a game every five years solution is that the FCS playoffs, much like March Madness, are not always geared towards fairness in matchups. For example, the MEAC Champion frequently ends up being sacrificed to the SoCon Champion (or more recently a A-10/CAA team). If the MEAC faced the OVC in the first round the scenario would change significantly.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I wish the Ivy league would send a team to the playoffs. They are the ones that could miss class and still make it up with out problems.

[UAalum72]

The problem with the win a game every five years solution is that the FCS playoffs, much like March Madness, are not always geared towards fairness in matchups. For example, the MEAC Champion frequently ends up being sacrificed to the SoCon Champion (or more recently a A-10/CAA team). If the MEAC faced the OVC in the first round the scenario would change significantly.
Yeah, then they'd only have wins against each other.

Too bad if matchups aren't fair. That's still fairer than leagues holding their spot while winless for years while other leagues don't get a bid at all.

If the MEAC drops out of the playoffs, the NEC should get their bid until the Big South has the required number of years as a 6-team league, then they can reevaluate who's available at that time.

[TexasTerror]

The MEAC will not drop out of the playoffs. They'd lose two, if not three teams if they do so...

Big South is next in line, but the NCAA is going to have to do something considering there are no more auto-bids to be had. Perhaps the NCAA could work some magic and get the Ivy and SWAC to join the fray, maybe even ask the NEC to upgrade their scholarship limit and get them in...etc, etc...

[DetroitFlyer]

The PFL should receive an autobid. 14 years in FCS, fully eligible all 14 years, and no autobid. It is absolutely unreal! Our champion last season would have won the PL and would have won the Ivy League. So many people are just dying to see the Ivy League join the playoff picture. If you have Ivy Envy, then you should be able to accept the champion of the PFL receiving an autobid! Expand the playoffs and fix a broken system!!!!!

[TexasTerror]

The PFL should receive an autobid. 14 years in FCS, fully eligible all 14 years, and no autobid. It is absolutely unreal! Our champion last season would have won the PL and would have won the Ivy League. So many people are just dying to see the Ivy League join the playoff picture. If you have Ivy Envy, then you should be able to accept the champion of the PFL receiving an autobid! Expand the playoffs and fix a broken system!!!!!

Ivy has a history of being competitive with FCS full-scholarship teams...

PFL has a history of...xreadx

[appfan2008]

I must say I would not like to see every conference in our level get an auto bid to the point that you have to win your conference to get in to the playoffs... I think like march madness too many good teams would be left out in that scenario

[89Hen]

Our champion last season would have won the PL and would have won the Ivy League.
xcoffeex xnonox xcoffeex

[henfan]

Expand the playoffs and fix a broken system!!!!!

Fight the system! Free Angela Davis! Power to the people! xlolx

[appfan2008]

Do the playoffs really need to be expanded?

Are there that many good teams left out every year?

IMO The answer is no

[DetroitFlyer]

Fans of schools that routinely make the playoffs never see a need for expansion. Try being a fan of a team that has been playing FCS football for 14 years, and no team from the conference has ever received a bid. Even teams that have been ranked in the top 25 or higher.... Are too many good teams being left out? No question IMHO!!

[DukesR4Real]

IMO with the addition of Duquesne, the NEC will be a very formidable conference. The rest of you big timers may not agree, but the NEC champion would have a chance year in and year out to consistently compete in the playoffs

[youwouldno]

The playoffs are working pretty well right now, IMHO. Unless the pool is expanded significantly in terms of playoff participation, it's a dumb move to expand. It just cheapens the value of making the playoffs.

The difference between the NCAA basketball tourney and the FCS football tourney is that the latter is stronger throughout; the lower parts of the basketball bracket are relatively weak by comparison (as measured by their relation to the mean in a given sport/subdivision). The NCAA tourney grants 65 bids out of 336 teams (19%); in FCS it's 16 to ~98 (16% - the 98 number is debatable given the non-participation of some conferences, from strict ban- Ivy- to the SWAC situation).

Expanding the playoffs would set up a situation where an excessive proportion of the subdivision would participate in the postseason. This is an annoying error, one the NBA definitely suffers from and the NFL and MLB arguably do. Moving the playoffs to 24 would roughly equal the admission rate of MLB and NFL. Problematically, there is less parity in college athletics, and thus there is an increasingly steep drive towards the mean as more teams are admitted.

The inclusion of a number of mediocre teams (truly top teams are rarely if ever snubbed) will make the selection process more difficult and less precise. It's much easier to draw a line around 15-20% rather than the 25% expansion could mean.

[89Hen]

Fans of schools that routinely make the playoffs never see a need for expansion. Try being a fan of a team that has been playing FCS football for 14 years, and no team from the conference has ever received a bid. Even teams that have been ranked in the top 25 or higher.... Are too many good teams being left out? No question IMHO!!
Try being a fan of a team that has been playing FCS football for 14 years, and no team from the conference has ever deserved a bid.

There, I fixed it for you.

Cal Davis 37 - San Diego 27

What you continue to ignore is that any expansion to the playoffs would benefit the "schools that routinely make the playoffs" too.

[89Hen]

IMO with the addition of Duquesne, the NEC will be a very formidable conference. The rest of you big timers may not agree, but the NEC champion would have a chance year in and year out to consistently compete in the playoffs
IMO Stony was better than Duquesne. xtwocentsx

[MplsBison]

Expanding to 24 is the correct solution. Ditch the 50% autobid rule.

[89Hen]

Expanding to 24 is the correct solution. Ditch the 50% autobid rule.
1. Look at a calendar and give me the schedule.
2. At 24 do you think this will eliminate the complaining of 'bubble' teams?

[AppGuy04]

Expanding the playoffs to allow more teams in is the equivalent of the NCAA play-in game. Nobody cares and its like watching a high school game.

[Col Hogan]

1. Look at a calendar and give me the schedule.
2. At 24 do you think this will eliminate the complaining of 'bubble' teams?

You know it won't eliminate the complaining...but it will start complaining from certain conferences when their teams in the "expanded" playoffs never win.

Keep the system the way it is...play an OOC schedule that shows the committee you deserve to be in the playoffs...then win in the playoffs.

Maybe what we need to do is have a regular review of the autobids...if a conference is not showing an ability to win, maybe they need to lose the autobid and another conference needs to get a chance.

Expansion = dilution.

By the way, 89, the two old guys freak me out...they are looking directly at me as I read. The previous picture, at least they were looking away. xlolx xlolx

[89Hen]

By the way, 89, the two old guys freak me out...they are looking directly at me as I read. The previous picture, at least they were looking away. xlolx xlolx
That's why I picked them! I wanted DetroitFlyer to know I was looking directly at him. :p

[89Hen]

You know it won't eliminate the complaining...but it will start complaining from certain conferences when their teams in the "expanded" playoffs never win.
Not only that, then the next complaint is 'we never get an at-large bid'. xbawlingx

[MplsBison]

1. Look at a calendar and give me the schedule.
11 week regular season, 5 week playoffs


2. At 24 do you think this will eliminate the complaining of 'bubble' teams?

No system possibly can.

[MplsBison]

Expanding the playoffs to allow more teams in is the equivalent of the NCAA play-in game. Nobody cares

The teams that get to play and their fans care.

FCS football isn't about TV revenue.

If you want that go watch BCS.

[89Hen]

11 week regular season, 5 week playoffs
So no byes during the season?

[AppGuy04]

The teams that get to play and their fans care.

FCS football isn't about TV revenue.

If you want that go watch BCS.

No, but it is about quality football. We have that now, no need to water is down, and lets face it, thats all expansion would do

[youwouldno]

Repeat after me: more bids means less differentiation among programs 'on the bubble'. In other words, less precision, more questionable inclusions and exclusions.

[89Hen]

FCS football isn't about TV revenue.
It's also not about giving participation medals.

[andy7171]

Increasing the playoffs to 24 teams only waters down the field with 7-4 teams and an occasional exceptional non-schaolarship team every few years.

And enough of the PL bashing, sure last year was a rough one, but they were in the championship game a couple years ago. The MEAC would lose 3 teams if they went to a HBUC Championship vs the SWAC. Ain't happening.

[Cobblestone]

I think it would be better for the FCS if all conference champions received an automatic bid.

xtwocentsx ... $.01 after taxes.

[appfan2008]

I think it would be better for the FCS if all conference champions received an automatic bid.

xtwocentsx ... $.01 after taxes.
if that happened then conferences like the socon, gateway and caa who routinely get 2-3 teams in would be down to one and deserving teams would be turned away

i dont think any of us want that

[CCU97]

Being a fan of a team that currently does not have an auto bid....I still think that they don't need to expand the playoffs....If anything...they might consider a few play-in type games for the at-large bids and add just 1 week to the whole schedule....That way the bitching and moaning from teams that thought they were worthy would die down a little plus teams that got little respect but did play well(SC St. 9-2 and no at large more than once) would get a chance to prove themselves vs. 7-4 or 8-3 of the old guards.....just a thought....

[appfan2008]

Being a fan of a team that currently does not have an auto bid....I still think that they don't need to expand the playoffs....If anything...they might consider a few play-in type games for the at-large bids and add just 1 week to the whole schedule....That way the bitching and moaning from teams that thought they were worthy would die down a little plus teams that got little respect but did play well(SC St. 9-2 and no at large more than once) would get a chance to prove themselves vs. 7-4 or 8-3 of the old guards.....just a thought....
that sounds ok but i wouldnt want to expand more than 2-4 teams only for playin style like you mentioned there

[89Hen]

add just 1 week to the whole schedule...
That's a big 'just'.

BTW, there IS a play-in for at-larges... it's called the regular season.

[AppGuy04]

That's a big 'just'.

BTW, there IS a play-in for at-larges... it's called the regular season.

Rep points for the Henster

[The Moody1]

The PFL should receive an autobid. 14 years in FCS, fully eligible all 14 years, and no autobid. It is absolutely unreal! Our champion last season would have won the PL and would have won the Ivy League. So many people are just dying to see the Ivy League join the playoff picture. If you have Ivy Envy, then you should be able to accept the champion of the PFL receiving an autobid! Expand the playoffs and fix a broken system!!!!!


The PFL and all these other low/non scholly leagues should do us all a favor and move down to Div II where they belong.

[Col Hogan]

The PFL and all these other low/non scholly leagues should do us all a favor and move down to Div II where they belong.

While I disagree with DetroitFlyer on expanding the playoffs, the low/non scholly leagues have a place in FCS.

xnonox xnonox xnonox xnonox xnonox xnonox xnonox

[Go...gate]

The PFL should receive an autobid. 14 years in FCS, fully eligible all 14 years, and no autobid. It is absolutely unreal! Our champion last season would have won the PL and would have won the Ivy League. So many people are just dying to see the Ivy League join the playoff picture. If you have Ivy Envy, then you should be able to accept the champion of the PFL receiving an autobid! Expand the playoffs and fix a broken system!!!!!

Agree that PFL should get a bid. Disagree with almost everything else.

[appfan2008]

The PFL and all these other low/non scholly leagues should do us all a favor and move down to Div II where they belong.
xnonox wait a minute there... while i agree they dont belong in the playoffs... they also dont belong in d2!xoopsx xnonox xnonono2x xnonono2x

[CCU97]

That's a big 'just'.

BTW, there IS a play-in for at-larges... it's called the regular season.


Not necessarily....Coastal could have gone 8-3 last year and been beat out by a 7-4 team because of the conference they played in....there are many years that a team with Coastal's schedule last year could go 9-2 and be left out because more *rank* is given to teams from the A10, SoCon, ect.....a 9-2 team with a good schedule should be given a chance to make the playoffs over a 7-4 team any day of the week....it just doesn't always happen....

Now if you have a weak schedule that is your fault....but just because a team improves their schedule doesn't mean if they win they get in....Coastal was lucky last year a few teams lost in the last few weeks....Most schools can't do anything about their conference they are in without help from other conferences....that has been proven with Samford going to the SoCon before Coastal....so there are several games each year that are considered cake walks by most teams that you just can't do a thing about except schedule the best OOC possible....

Not to mention I would never suggest that more than 2 games be play-ins....in most years that is how many teams are on the outside looking in and have a point as to not making the playoffs....7-4...sorry no arguement....but if you play a good schedule and go 9-2 and a great schedule and 8-3 sure you have a point....even if it is one that rocks the boat a little....

[89Hen]

Not necessarily....Coastal could have gone 8-3 last year...
And that 3rd loss would have been their play-in game.

[appfan2008]

the play in games should occur thanksgiving weekend because attendance is so terrible then anyway

[Col Hogan]

Not necessarily....Coastal could have gone 8-3 last year and been beat out by a 7-4 team because of the conference they played in....there are many years that a team with Coastal's schedule last year could go 9-2 and be left out because more *rank* is given to teams from the A10, SoCon, ect.....a 9-2 team with a good schedule should be given a chance to make the playoffs over a 7-4 team any day of the week....it just doesn't always happen....

Now if you have a weak schedule that is your fault....but just because a team improves their schedule doesn't mean if they win they get in....Coastal was lucky last year a few teams lost in the last few weeks....Most schools can't do anything about their conference they are in without help from other conferences....that has been proven with Samford going to the SoCon before Coastal....so there are several games each year that are considered cake walks by most teams that you just can't do a thing about except schedule the best OOC possible....

Not to mention I would never suggest that more than 2 games be play-ins....in most years that is how many teams are on the outside looking in and have a point as to not making the playoffs....7-4...sorry no arguement....but if you play a good schedule and go 9-2 and a great schedule and 8-3 sure you have a point....even if it is one that rocks the boat a little....

What "Rank" is given to a team just because of it's conference membership?

[appfan2008]

What "Rank" is given to a team just because of it's conference membership?
I certainly dont know of any...?

[Col Hogan]

I certainly dont know of any...?

Only "Rank" I know of is earned each week on the field of play...It's the only kind I want my team getting.....

[AppGuy04]

Playing football in the SoCon ups the ante vs the Big South. It's just like RPI in the NCAA tourney, your conference hurts you

[lizrdgizrd]

I'd much rather have 1 or 2 pretty good teams miss the playoffs than invite an additional 6 or 7 teams that shouldn't be there.

[CCU97]

I agree...and with one or two play-in games you would find out who the teams are that should be there....there have been plenty of teams from auto bid conferences that just didn't show up....hell Coastal was an at-large and didn't show up for the first half vs. App St. last year....

[PantherRob82]

auto bid's will not change in the next 5 years

[Tod]

I must say I would not like to see every conference in our level get an auto bid to the point that you have to win your conference to get in to the playoffs... I think like march madness too many good teams would be left out in that scenario

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so sorry if anybody has already said this. NCAA rules stipulate that at least half of the teams must be at-large. That includes March Madness as well as the FCS playoffs.

IOW, it's impossible to get to a point that you have to win your conference to make the playoffs. But, if ALL conference champions are allowed in, then at least that many OTHER teams have to be in as well.

xpeacex

[Tod]

If you want to make the playoffs, schedule for it. The example I think fits very well from last year is Portland State and USD.

Portland State scheduled themselves out of the playoffs with an OOC schedule of New Mexico (win) and losses to Cal and Oregon. While the Vikings also lost to UM and MSU in Big Sky play, three I-A (well, FBS now) games was too much.

USD played Azusa Pacific and Dixie State in weeks one and two.

While it would have taken some shuffling, unless they had been on the ball in the first place, a PSU/USD game would have, IMHO, put the winner in the playoffs over a 7-4 MSU.

In other words, stop scheduling yourselves out of the playoffs and then b*tching that you didn't make it!

You CAN make the playoffs if you're in a weak conference, if your OOC games are against quality teams and they're wins!

xtwocentsx xpeacex

[appfan2008]

auto bid's will not change in the next 5 years
says who?

is that your opinion or something to back that up???

[MplsBison]

So no byes during the season?

Right.

Unless you're seeded 1-8, then you get a 1st round bye.

[MplsBison]

no need to water is down, and lets face it, thats all expansion would do

The parity we're seeing in college athletics is unprecedented. Adding 8 more teams will not water it down.



How would that even be possible anyway?

You're essentially talking about giving the 8 best seeded teams 1st round BYEs and letting the lowest 16 play in to the next round.

[lizrdgizrd]

The parity we're seeing in college athletics is unprecedented. Adding 8 more teams will not water it down.



How would that even be possible anyway?

You're essentially talking about giving the 8 best seeded teams 1st round BYEs and letting the lowest 16 play in to the next round.
The parity is not as evident in FCS football. How many teams would you say were left out of the playoffs last year that deserved to be in?

[89Hen]

Right.

Unless you're seeded 1-8, then you get a 1st round bye.
Again, IMO easier said than done. With conference schedules and I-A games, it would be very difficult to schedule 11 games in 11 weeks... all in the name of adding 8 lower ranked teams (who all had their shot to either schedule better or win more games) to the playoffs. No thanks.xcoffeex

[89Hen]

In other words, stop scheduling yourselves out of the playoffs and then b*tching that you didn't make it!

You CAN make the playoffs if you're in a weak conference, if your OOC games are against quality teams and they're wins!

xtwocentsx xpeacex
That's worth more than 2 cents Tod. xnodx xthumbsupx xbowx

[MplsBison]

How many teams would you say were left out of the playoffs last year that deserved to be in?

Exactly 8.

[MplsBison]

it would be very difficult to schedule 11 games in 11 weeks

It's happened every year since 73.

[89Hen]

Exactly 8.
xlolx xlolx xlolx xrolleyesx I can't think of even one.

[andy7171]

Towson was 7-3 and played 8-2 JMU for a play in game during the last weekend of the season. And they failed miserably.
They finished 7-4 and didn't belong in the play-offs. When Towson does make the playoffs, I want it to be because they deserved it, not because the playoff field was expanded to accomodate more mediocre teams.

[appfan2008]

It's happened every year since 73.
no we schedule 11 games in 12 weeks!

[MplsBison]

I can't think of even one.

Should've been in:

NDSU
Portland State
San Diego
Cal Poly
Princeton
SDSU
Maine
UC Davis

[MplsBison]

They finished 7-4 and didn't belong in the play-offs.


You're right, they were ranked 25.

[MplsBison]

no we schedule 11 games in 12 weeks!

You played games 11 weeks.

[89Hen]

Should've been in:

xconfusedx

NDSU - NOT eligible
Portland State - knew what they were doing when they scheduled 3 I-A's
San Diego - 8-0 vs DI opponents when the invites went out
Cal Poly - four losses says otherwise
Princeton - Ivy chooses not to participate
SDSU - NOT eligible
Maine - four losses says otherwise
UC Davis - NOT eligible

Nextxcoffeex

[89Hen]

You played games 11 weeks.
Over a 12 week period.

[andy7171]

Should've been in:

NDSU
Portland State
San Diego
Cal Poly
Princeton
SDSU
Maine - 6-5!
UC Davis - 6-5!!
I give up. xoopsx

[lizrdgizrd]

Should've been in:

NDSU
Portland State
San Diego
Cal Poly
Princeton
SDSU
Maine
UC Davis
So you're saying PSU, SD, Maine and CP were the teams that were left out?

That's only 4 xsmiley_wix

[MplsBison]

NDSU - NOT eligible
Portland State - knew what they were doing when they scheduled 3 I-A's
San Diego - 8-0 vs DI opponents when the invites went out
Cal Poly - four losses says otherwise
Princeton - Ivy chooses not to participate
SDSU - NOT eligible
Maine - four losses says otherwise
UC Davis - NOT eligible



I don't care what your excuses are. I'm saying these 8 should've been there.

[MplsBison]

Over a 12 week period.

You only play 11 of the weeks.

[andy7171]

I don't care what your excuses are. I'm saying these 8 should've been there.
Is the sky blue in your world?

[saluki_in_ohio]

I think the Gateway and the SoCon should each have two bids. Which means that we need to take a bid away from a conference. Who?

[andy7171]

I think the Gateway and the SoCon should each have two bids. Which means that we need to take a bid away from a conference. Who?
You can take them away from the Ivy and SWAC, they don't use them but mplsbison thinks they still do.

[DUPFLFan]

The PFL and all these other low/non scholly leagues should do us all a favor and move down to Div II where they belong.

With yours and others attitudes the NCAA Basketball playoffs would be 16 teams.

[dbackjon]

With yours and others attitudes the NCAA Basketball playoffs would be 16 teams.

One BIG difference - all 32 conferences that have auto-bids give the same amount of scholarships (or equivilants). So in that sense, they are on equal footing. Not so with the PFL/MAAC.

[youwouldno]

I love how mplsbison says he "doesn't care" about the little fact that the Ivies don't participate. It's like he's 6 years old or something.

[andy7171]

With yours and others attitudes the NCAA Basketball playoffs would be 16 teams.
Hardly.
You can't compare D.I basketball and FCS football.

[Col Hogan]

I've been sitting here reading his posts and trying to figure out a way to respond without insulting him...and I'm at a loss. What logic is there to argue with when the response is "I don't care" and calling NCAA rules "excuses." I need a "Pulling my hair out" smiley right now. xeekx xeekx xeekx

Edit: Thanks to LG 4409

[FargoBison]

The FCS is growing, solid programs are coming in and teams currently within the subdivision are starting to put some money into their programs. I think expansion will have to be looked at soon and will actually be needed in 5-10 years.

[jessesd]

I've been sitting here reading his posts and trying to figure out a way to respond without insulting him...and I'm at a loss. What logic is there to argue with when the response is "I don't care" and calling NCAA rules "excuses." I need a "Pulling my hair out" smiley right now. xeekx xeekx xeekx


I been lurking for a while and have to agree with you. No way to counter-argue here.xanim_chaix xazzx xasswhipx xdeadhorsex xbangx

[lizrdgizrd]

I've been sitting here reading his posts and trying to figure out a way to respond without insulting him...and I'm at a loss. What logic is there to argue with when the response is "I don't care" and calling NCAA rules "excuses." I need a "Pulling my hair out" smiley right now. xeekx xeekx xeekx
There ya go! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/angry022.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Col Hogan]

There ya go! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/angry022.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Outstanding!!! Thanks.

[appfan2008]

One counter argument to expansion is the fact that so many teams are also moving up to fbs also... yes teams are moving up from d2 but they are just taking the place of others moving to the next level

[appfan2008]

One counter argument to expansion is the fact that so many teams are also moving up to fbs also... yes teams are moving up from d2 but they are just taking the place of others moving to the next level
and unfortunately asu may be one of those in the near future

[dbackjon]

So far, in this century, far more teams have moved up to FCS than have left.

Only ones that have left are FAU & FIU (which were in for a few years), and Western Kentucky.

Move ups include NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UC-D, Winston-Salem, NC Central, Presby, UCA, SSU, UND, USD (next year). Campbell is adding a program, Austin Peay went from non-schollie to schollie. Coastal Carolina started their program up. Stony Brook went from limited schollies to full schollie. Duquesne, and the NEC programs are adding schollie, becoming more competitive.

Old Dominion is adding a program in 2009.

Any other additions?

[GAD]

So far, in this century, far more teams have moved up to FCS than have left.

Only ones that have left are FAU (which was in for a few years), Marshall, and Western Kentucky.

Move ups include NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UC-D, Winston-Salem, NC A&T, Presby, UCA, UND, USD (next year). Campbell is adding a program, Austin Peay went from non-schollie to schollie.

Any other additions?
NC A&T should be changed to NC Central

[dbackjon]

NC A&T should be changed to NC Central


thanks - done

[UAalum72]

FIU also passed thru I-AA on the way to BS

[Tealblood]

Coastal was just added 4 years ago

[dbackjon]

Coastal was just added 4 years ago

Added - the minute I saw your name I remembered that!

[Tealblood]

It may seem like we been here longer since we are part of the "Old Guard"

We being "Old Guard" having made the playoffs an all

[MplsBison]

Yup.

Far more teams moving into FCS than moving out.


Add UND and USD to that list too. Both are quality programs that will be at 63 within a couple years of moving up.


Really, when you think about it, what's happening is that the NAIA is collapsing.

The bigger NAIA schools are going to DII and the bigger DII schools are going FCS.


It's going to be like that until the NAIA straight collapses.

They still have a couple hundred members.


Then on top of that, you're going to have Canadian schools jumping in the mix. Granted not many football teams, but probably a couple dozen when it's all said and done.



When everything settles out and the NCAA is all that's left, we're going to be talking 1000 football programs in the US and Canada under the NCAA flag. Probably around 150 FCS teams when it's all said and done.


Gotta start thinking 24 at least. Maybe 32 some day.

[Mr. C]

So far, in this century, far more teams have moved up to FCS than have left.

Only ones that have left are FAU & FIU (which were in for a few years), Marshall, and Western Kentucky.

Move ups include NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UC-D, Winston-Salem, NC Central, Presby, UCA, SSU, UND, USD (next year). Campbell is adding a program, Austin Peay went from non-schollie to schollie. Coastal Carolina started their program up. Stony Brook went from limited schollies to full schollie. Duquesne, and the NEC programs are adding schollie, becoming more competitive.

Old Dominion is adding a program in 2009.

Any other additions?
Marshall left I-AA for I-A after winning the 1996 championship. The Herd has been gone for an entire decade.

[dbackjon]

Marshall left I-AA for I-A after winning the 1996 championship. The Herd has been gone for over a decade.

Thanks - was too lazy to look that up - list edited.

[Col Hogan]

What about UConn?

[89Hen]

I don't care what your excuses are. I'm saying these 8 should've been there.
NOT MY EXCUSES!!! xnonono2x

[lizrdgizrd]

So far, in this century, far more teams have moved up to FCS than have left.

Only ones that have left are FAU & FIU (which were in for a few years), and Western Kentucky.

Move ups include NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UC-D, Winston-Salem, NC Central, Presby, UCA, SSU, UND, USD (next year). Campbell is adding a program, Austin Peay went from non-schollie to schollie. Coastal Carolina started their program up. Stony Brook went from limited schollies to full schollie. Duquesne, and the NEC programs are adding schollie, becoming more competitive.

Old Dominion is adding a program in 2009.

Any other additions?
What about UNC-Pembroke? Or are they going to D-II?

[appfan2008]

uncp is going d2 from what i have been told

[DUPFLFan]

One BIG difference - all 32 conferences that have auto-bids give the same amount of scholarships (or equivilants). So in that sense, they are on equal footing. Not so with the PFL/MAAC.

So what?

Are PFL/MAAC FCS or are they not?

If they are they need to be treated as all other conferences. If not....

[Col Hogan]

So what?

Outstanding answer...44264426

Every conference can't have auto bid.

Play a strong OOC schedule, get ranked, and win an at-large bid.

I know, it's an excuse, it's not fair, so what. Your school knew the rules, now you don't like them and want them changed. xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx

[DetroitFlyer]

PL schools do not all fund football at an equal level.... The PFL, MAAC and NEC are all FCS conferences. Until the NCAA changes the rules, treating these conferences differently, ( as in no autobid ), is 100% discrimination. The PFL has been eligible for an autobid for 13 going on 14 seasons.... Of course our top notch commishette will not even apply for a bid, at least the NEC has that going in its favor....

[andy7171]

Anyone mention Buffalo? They were a crappy I-AA team back in 1993, now they are a crappy FBS team in the MAC.

[appfan2008]

PL schools do not all fund football at an equal level.... The PFL, MAAC and NEC are all FCS conferences. Until the NCAA changes the rules, treating these conferences differently, ( as in no autobid ), is 100% discrimination. The PFL has been eligible for an autobid for 13 going on 14 seasons.... Of course our top notch commishette will not even apply for a bid, at least the NEC has that going in its favor....
its not discrimination if the teams in these conferences suck!

[Col Hogan]

PL schools do not all fund football at an equal level.... The PFL, MAAC and NEC are all FCS conferences. Until the NCAA changes the rules, treating these conferences differently, ( as in no autobid ), is 100% discrimination. The PFL has been eligible for an autobid for 13 going on 14 seasons.... Of course our top notch commishette will not even apply for a bid, at least the NEC has that going in its favor....

Where would said auto bid come from? Who do you propose taking it from.

Because what you really want is an expansion of the playoffs.

Expansion = Dilution

Otherwise, xcoffeex

[appfan2008]

Anyone mention Buffalo? They were a crappy I-AA team back in 1993, now they are a crappy FBS team in the MAC.
there are plenty more that have moved up but have not been mentioned including undefeated and bcs game winner boise st

[lizrdgizrd]

PL schools do not all fund football at an equal level.... The PFL, MAAC and NEC are all FCS conferences. Until the NCAA changes the rules, treating these conferences differently, ( as in no autobid ), is 100% discrimination. The PFL has been eligible for an autobid for 13 going on 14 seasons.... Of course our top notch commishette will not even apply for a bid, at least the NEC has that going in its favor....
So your real problem is that your commish won't step up and apply for the autobid, not that the NCAA won't give you one. Until every conference that meets the requirements gets a bid except you you're not likely to win the "discrimination" argument. Of course discrimination can also mean: The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment. (http://www.answers.com/topic/discrimination) The discernment in the NCAA's case may be that the PFL isn't worthy of an autobid. xcoffeex

[appfan2008]

So your real problem is that your commish won't step up and apply for the autobid, not that the NCAA won't give you one. Until every conference that meets the requirements gets a bid except you you're not likely to win the "discrimination" argument. Of course discrimination can also mean: The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment. (http://www.answers.com/topic/discrimination) The discernment in the NCAA's case may be that the PFL isn't worthy of an autobid. xcoffeex
which they arent

[Dane96]

And seriously, stop comparing the NEC and the PFL. Yes, San Diego was great last year, but on a whole, the PFL and the NEC are two totally different concepts.

I understand your fight DetroitFlyer, but using the NEC in your argument is ill-placed.

[*****]

of the teams that moved THIS CENTURY you are forgetting Troy, USF and UConn...

[Pageoner]

that USF program is for real.
they beat West Virginia, won a bowl game
and had a close one with rutgers
watch out for em.....

[*****]

I can't think of a reason for any conference to lose its AQ at this point and I don't think the playoffs are expanding real soon.

[appfan2008]

what would you do then, ralph, with these nec, and other fans who think they deserve an auto bid???

[CCU97]

I don't think any off us have much of an argument right now....Big South isn't eligible yet and the rest don't have a high enough RPI yet or aren't eligible. Unitl someone becomes eligible and has a high enough RPI for several years it is a moot point. Once that happens that conference has a right to argue that if the auto bids aren't increasing then someone needs to go...who that someone is could change from time to time if the playoffs aren't expanded...but if a conference finishes 6th or 7th for several years above some of the 8 auto bid conferences they deserve the auto bid...just myxtwocentsx

[*****]

Well the Big South could be rattling the gates in a couple years of the AQ8...

2006 Final GPI
~1. Great West Football Conference (21.64)
*2. Atlantic 10 Conference (25.62)
*3. Gateway Football Conference (29.64)
*4. Big Sky Conference (33.90)
*5. Southern Conference (35.24)
~6. Ivy League (42.19)
~7. Big South Conference (46.87)
*8. Southland Conference (50.25)
*9. Ohio Valley Conference (50.98)
*10. Patriot League (57.52)
*11. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.16)
12. Southwestern Athletic Conference (64.12)
13. Northeast Conference (65.49)
14. Independents (66.75)
15. Pioneer Football League (69.46)
16. Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (83.84)
*= AQ, ~= Ineligible or Decline

I'll trust the NCAA committee's judgement on strength etc. It seems to match the GPI at this point.

[Dane96]

I think the NEC is making a "stronger" case than the other leagues (outside of the Big South who is finally getting the req. numbers).

Simply put, most of the league will be offering 30 rides. Still not at the PL level...but a solid attempt. We have some wins, not many, over playoff programs.

For argument sake, what is the story going to be when the Big South applies in 2010. Further, what if, which seems likely, that the NEC gets to 45 rides (just shy of the number alot of PL teams are at).

If the MEAC doesnt drop out and the Committee doesnt vote for a standards minimum (53 rides or X dollars in funding) what will be the solution and/or argument to keep these two leagues down. SURELY THE BIG SOUTH will have very strong argument, with the NEC not lagging that far behind for their own.

So...does the Committee do what it says it does (gives the 8 bids to the best 8 leagues...and, if so, what is that criteria).

I think it is clear to most, the committee will not be pulling bids from leagues.

To say that this is definitive (no increase of auto-bids or pulling of bids) is both short-sighted thinking and blindness to the problem.

Face it, like everything in life, adaption and flexibility will become a motto of the FCS...sooner rather than later.

Ralph, while I do not deny that the GPI will be an "indicator", I can guarantee you this: Without minimum standards the FCS would have a tough legal argument. As I stated in the past, the NEC will most likely shoot for "negotiations." A full-scholarship Big South will go the legal route if denied...and believe me...they have a VERY STRONG ARGUMENT. The GPI is far too subjective to withstand a legal challenge. The FCS would have to lay out the backroom politics in a public forum...highly unlikely they would wish to do so.

In essence, it is similar to the BCS threats from the Mountain West; eventually that was settled out of court with a compromise.

ALL RANKING SYSTEMS....are inherently flawed.

[*****]

... For argument sake...I don't really want to argue on assumptions and speculation again. I do think that being partial schollie hurts the NEC and no schollie is even worse. I think the Gridiron Classic was a fine idea. Wasn't great for the NEC this past year but that will change.

[*****]

... a tough legal argument... go the legal route... too subjective to withstand a legal challenge...What's with all this legal stuff anyway? The BCS is not the NCAA ya know? The Big South/NEC/PFL/MAAC have had exactly one team make the playoffs and only once.

[Dane96]

Totally agree about the partial scholly argument, but the Gridiron Classic is dead.

The NEC will have 45 rides by 2009. It is already in discussion and I know three schools are already raising the funds for the 45. I know Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are at the max this year. Sacred Heart and Robert Morris are close ( couple shy). Duquense will be at the max by 2008. Only Wagner and St. Francis are question marks. It would be a tough argument for the NCAA to say the 18 ride difference is enough to keep a league out.

As for a legal arugment, that, is not an assumption. That is based on fact. We all have our specialties, and sports related legal concepts...is mine.

There is no doubt that the Big South will go that route if denied. There is also no doubt that if 1 of the 8 gets the boot...they will go that route.

Way too much ancillary $$$ involved. The playoffs, and even football, may be money drainers, but other money is involved (national recognition, applications, advertising, etc).

Believe me...this will get ugly if it comes to that ugly last resort.

[*****]

... this will get ugly if it comes to that ugly last resort.IF being the operative word in all that.

[Dane96]

Agreed!

[*****]

The NCAA committee has already been working on it.

[HensRock]

I think we either need to decrease the number of automatic bids by creating tougher qualifying standards, or increase the size of the playoff field. I personally think that the rule that at least half the field must be composed of at-large entries is a good one, but I also like the fact that conference championships actually mean something other than a trophy.

[*****]

... I also like the fact that conference championships actually mean something other than a trophy.There are currently two leagues that qualify for an AQ and don't get it, the PFL and the NEC. They have a postseason game for the Conference Champ.

[Dane96]

Key is that this is the last year for that game, as far as I am being told.

[DUPFLFan]

The NCAA committee has already been working on it.

Ralph, Working on what?

[danefan]

I'd be happy if the NCAA requires 50 schollys or equivalents to get a AQ. Its an ascertainable standard. But what happens when the NEC changes their 45 to 50 and meets those requirements?

There will be some other excuse.

[UAalum72]

There are currently two leagues that qualify for an AQ and don't get it, the PFL and the NEC. They have a postseason game for the Conference Champ.
I spit on your consolation prize. We'd rather have an autobid.

[CCU97]

Currently with only 8 auto bids and the GPI being the best tool to use to rank conferences for the auto bids(and using the previous year to do so) both the PFL and NEC would not get one of the 8 auto bids...now if(being the key word) the field were to expand there is no reason you shouldn't get an auto bid...but until the quality of teams that are played and beaten improve by both conferences they will not get an auto bid and the reasoning can be shown as to why. Dane you should know that most judges will only require a good faith showing as to why they are done the way they are by the NCAA and that they are not discriminating in order to do so....if your conference isn't regularly in the top 8...your arguement will not hold up.... in order for the conferences to lose a lawsuit. I imagine since the first real argument won't come to play until after the 2010 season...the NCAA will have something waiting for that time to deal with the situation.

[Dane96]

Easy Alumn...Ralph is trying to stay with Old World views. Its tough to break minds. Fact is, the GIC wont be around much longer.

Ralph's views are his opinion.

I know for a fact that UA is at 30 rides right now...and pursuring 45 in the very near future...on the way to 63. This means little in the short run to Albany.

[*****]

Ralph, Working on what?Expanding the bracket to 24. They've had the discussion going and on the agenda (I spent a good part of a recent WAVES show talking with Fullerton, Coulson and Dougherty about the agenda) for a year now. They'll have something ready to go when/if it comes to it. Right now (this year) it is not necessary.

[Dane96]

Currently with only 8 auto bids and the GPI being the best tool to use to rank conferences for the auto bids(and using the previous year to do so) both the PFL and NEC would not get one of the 8 auto bids...now if(being the key word) the field were to expand there is no reason you shouldn't get an auto bid...but until the quality of teams that are played and beaten improve by both conferences they will not get an auto bid and the reasoning can be shown as to why. Dane you should know that most judges will only require a good faith showing as to why they are done the way they are by the NCAA and that they are not discriminating in order to do so....if your conference isn't regularly in the top 8...your arguement will not hold up.... in order for the conferences to lose a lawsuit. I imagine since the first real argument won't come to play until after the 2010 season...the NCAA will have something waiting for that time to deal with the situation.

Is that your legal opinion. If so, we should both chat via pm or e-mail. Your view is A) generalized and B) mistaken.

The truth is, the BCS schools (the NCAA does not sponsor BCS football per se) backed down very quickly for fear of a protracted, costly, and possibly disabling lawsuit.

The NCAA has MUCH MORE to lose in the FCS argument because they sponsor FCS football.

Again, let's chat off line if you would like...however the NCAA would have to show a boatload more than the GPI. Anti-trust is based on a whole lot more than subjectivity. Subjectivity is exactly what the ratings system is. Why? Because all ratings systems are flawed from the start. Why? Because ratings systems give a pre-determined weight to certain leagues and teams (unless I am HIGHLY mistaken). In essence, the A-Ten and NEC do not start on "equal" playing fields. In fact, no two leagues start on equal playing fields. Numbers are subjective in this instance...not objective.

[Dane96]

Expanding the bracket to 24. They've had the discussion going and on the agenda (I spent a good part of a recent WAVES show talking with Fullerton, Coulson and Dougherty about the agenda) for a year now. They'll have something ready to go when/if it comes to it. Right now (this year) it is not necessary.


Ralph...this is something we can both agree on. I have heard this from more than just you...

I think the problem is trying to get this past the members of this board who claim it will never happen. They also never were going to expand the basketball tourney from 16, the hockey tourney from 8, and eventually, the lax tourney once more teams come on board.

Things change.

[*****]

Easy Alumn...Ralph is trying to stay with Old World views. Its tough to break minds... Ralph's views are his opinion...There you go again with that old tactic of dismissing others. Poisoning the well. xnonono2x Please stop now. There is no need to put me down to make your point. I am not your enemy. You want to go on assumptions and speculation and I am going on real people saying it ON THE RECORD. The GC is happening this year unless something else develops, and that is speculation.

[*****]

I spit on your consolation prize. We'd rather have an autobid.Your conference signed up for what you call a "consolation prize." I had nothing to do with it.

[Dane96]

There you go again with that old tactic of dismissing others. Poisoning the well. xnonono2x Please stop now. There is no need to put me down to make your point. I am not your enemy. You want to go on assumptions and speculation and I am going on real people saying it ON THE RECORD. The GC is happening this year unless something else develops, and that is speculation.

I think you misread my post...and apologize for not being clear. I meant you were not dismissing OTHERS with the old world views. See my last post above...it clarifies. Clearly, you and I have been privy to information regarding the 24 bids that others have not. So, my arguments were not against you since you KNOW what is going on right now.

Additionally, I stated after this year I have been told it is over.

BTW, I thought we both clarified what "on the record" often consists of. I think we both came to a solid understand that what is often said "on the record" is hyperbole.

Unfortunately, there are alot of snakeoil salesmen/women in the athletic department/NCAA headquarter business.

[UAalum72]

Your conference signed up for what you call a "consolation prize." I had nothing to do with it.
But you're using it as a reason that the PFL and NEC don't need an autobid. Otherwise why bring it up?

[*****]

But you're using it as a reason that the PFL and NEC don't need an autobid. Otherwise why bring it up?it was just a reminder that the two do have something to reward them for being conf champs, at least for this coming year and last, nothing to do with not wanting an AQ...
Originally Posted by HensRock
... I also like the fact that conference championships actually mean something other than a trophy.

[UAalum72]

Then don't bring it into a thread about autobids. It is irrelevant to the discussion. Unless you know of a conference that would trade its autobid to the NEC for a shot at the Gridiron Classic.

No thanks. Remember the NEC only signed onto the Classic AFTER they were turned down for the autobid.

[*****]

Then don't bring it into a thread about autobids. It is irrelevant to the discussion...Geez, I was responding to SOMEONE ELSE and it WAS a relevant and accurate response. xwhistlex xpeacex xreadx xcoolx xcoffeex

[UAalum72]

Geez, I was responding to SOMEONE ELSE and it WAS a relevant and accurate response.
I saw nobody else mention the Gridiron Classic. It has nothing to do with the playoffs. It is a sidetrack, a diversion.

[appfan2008]

I think 24 teams with any conference in fcs football that wants an autobid can get one... that would be fair

[Dane96]

Something not mentioned earlier. If the 24 number comes to pass, as both Ralph mentioned and I have heard elsewhere, there is an interesting decision to be made: Will the 24 bids be 100% at-large...or will it include automatics.

If it includes automatics, then by rule 12 automatics must be available. If not, the rules committee would have to amend the current rule.

THIS...would be the only way to deny partial or no-scholarship leagues.

Interesting scenerio.

[appfan2008]

what would you prefer dane?

as someone who currently does not have a bid... would you rather have 12 auto bids including your conference or would you rather have non at all?

just curious

[*****]

I am holding the agenda of the "Division I Football Championship Subdivision Joint Meeting December 15, 2006" in my hand and item 4g is "Expanding bracket beyond 16 teams" and it refers to Supplement No. 4. That supplement is titled "Expanding Bracket to Include 24 Teams." Seed eight; AQs particularly to the NEC, PFL and BSO (doesn't say 12). The cost increase would be $1.5M. Like discussed on WAVES, two conferences applied and were denied AQs in 2006. The NEC and the Big South.

[UAalum72]

Like discussed on WAVES, two conferences applied and were denied AQs in 2006. The NEC and the Big South.
Did the Big South apply while asking for a waiver of the 6-team minimum?

[andy7171]

Something not mentioned earlier. If the 24 number comes to pass, as both Ralph mentioned and I have heard elsewhere, there is an interesting decision to be made: Will the 24 bids be 100% at-large...or will it include automatics.

If it includes automatics, then by rule 12 automatics must be available. If not, the rules committee would have to amend the current rule.

THIS...would be the only way to deny partial or no-scholarship leagues.

Interesting scenerio.
HHmmmmm? I thought the rule was at least 50% of the field has to be "at-large". Nothing about 50% of the field has to be automatic bids. If it expands to 24, nothing that I see has to increase the auto bids. It could remain 8 autos and 16 at large. xreadx

[89Hen]

I think we either need to decrease the number of automatic bids by creating tougher qualifying standards
xnodx 8 teams in a conference to get one. It is mathematically possible for a team to go 3-8 and receive an autobid from a 6 team conference. Not saying that would happen, but look at the Sun Belt auto with the NO bowl. Don't forget, we had MSU at 7-5 get the Big Sky auto two years in a row, so 6-5 or 5-6 is certainly in the realm of possiblity if you only have a 6 team conference get one. xtwocentsx

[89Hen]

I think the problem is trying to get this past the members of this board who claim it will never happen.
Are there any?

[89Hen]

HHmmmmm? I thought the rule was at least 50% of the field has to be "at-large". Nothing about 50% of the field has to be automatic bids. If it expands to 24, nothing that I see has to increase the auto bids. It could remain 8 autos and 16 at large. xreadx
I've read the rule several times and IMO it is worded both ways. Half the field needs to be reserved for at-large, but if enough teams apply for autos, half the field needs to be given to conferences as autos. I would believe it would have to be worded this way in case less than 8 conferences applied for autos. At least that's how I've always read it.

[appfan2008]

Oh I think if there is enough pressure it will happen... who knows if it is the right thing to do or not... but it will happen

[DUPFLFan]

There are currently two leagues that qualify for an AQ and don't get it, the PFL and the NEC. They have a postseason game for the Conference Champ.

Which is exactly why they have a post season game. They both have NO shot to get any sort of post season bid.

Don't you think that the second the PFL and NEC got a postsesason AQ, that the Gridiron classic would be a memory?

[appfan2008]

I've read the rule several times and IMO it is worded both ways. Half the field needs to be reserved for at-large, but if enough teams apply for autos, half the field needs to be given to conferences as autos. I would believe it would have to be worded this way in case less than 8 conferences applied for autos. At least that's how I've always read it.
Never having read the rule book that sounds confusing as hell

[lizrdgizrd]

xnodx 8 teams in a conference to get one. It is mathematically possible for a team to go 3-8 and receive an autobid from a 6 team conference. Not saying that would happen, but look at the Sun Belt auto with the NO bowl. Don't forget, we had MSU at 7-5 get the Big Sky auto two years in a row, so 6-5 or 5-6 is certainly in the realm of possiblity if you only have a 6 team conference get one. xtwocentsx
We've already had a 6-5 team make the playoffs thanks to autobids. xnodx

[89Hen]

They both have NO shot to get any sort of post season bid.
And THAT is a lie. xnonox

[89Hen]

Never having read the rule book that sounds confusing as hell
Nah, just my poorly worded explanation. It boils down to at least half the field must be at-large, and no more than half the field must go to autos, but if enough conferences apply, it will be exactly 50-50.

[DUPFLFan]

And THAT is a lie. xnonox

Really? Since no team in either league has ever had a post season bid, and since San Diego with an 11-0 record was passed up for 7-4 teams, I'd say it is the TRUTH.

Prove to me it is a lie.

[andy7171]

Never having read the rule book that sounds confusing as hell
I agree.
Wouldn't it be easier for the PFL and NEC to play a more competitive schedule instead of whining and complaining about technicalities to get in? Well, obviously not, but it would be easier on the rest of us. xcoolx

[Dane96]

89 Hen...has read it perfect, IMHO.

Appy...I would prefer an auto, for obvious reasons.

DUPFL, 89 Hen is correct: There ARE OPPORTUNITIES, just more diffcult (e.g. you must get an at-large).

[andy7171]

Really? Since no team in either league has ever had a post season bid, and since San Diego with an 11-0 record was passed up for 7-4 teams, I'd say it is the TRUTH.

Prove to me it is a lie.
OK.
San Deigo was 10-1 last year.

[danefan]

I agree.
Wouldn't it be easier for the PFL and NEC to play a more competitive schedule instead of whining and complaining about technicalities to get in? Well, obviously not, but it would be easier on the rest of us. xcoolx

Not sure it would be easier. Its definitely doable though. Look at Albany's schedule this year.

I personally do not think that there is not a chance for the NEC and PFL to get an at large. Yes, San Diego was 11-1 and didn't get a bid, but that wasn't because they were from the PFL, it was because their strength of schedule blew. Now, if Albany goes 10-1 with a loss against Montana and doesn't get and at-large, then maybe I'll side with the conspiracy against the NEC and PFL people.

[89Hen]

Really? Since no team in either league has ever had a post season bid, and since San Diego with an 11-0 record was passed up for 7-4 teams, I'd say it is the TRUTH.

Prove to me it is a lie.
When was San Diego ever 11-0? At least get your facts straight.

Proving it is easy... Coastal Carolina, Hofstra, Georgia Southern, Youngstown State, Florida Atlantic... all received bids without playing in an auto bid conference. There is no secret schedule you need to play to get a bid. Other teams have figured it out... including Albany, Monmouth, Stony Brook.... xreadx

[andy7171]

Not sure it would be easier. Its definitely doable though. Look at Albany's schedule this year.

I personally do not think that there is not a chance for the NEC and PFL to get an at large. Yes, San Diego was 11-1 and didn't get a bid, but that wasn't because they were from the PFL, it was because their strength of schedule blew. Now, if Albany goes 10-1 with a loss against Montana and doesn't get and at-large, then maybe I'll side with the conspiracy against the NEC and PFL people.
I have no doubt it Albany goes 10-1 with their schedule they'll get a playoff spot. Schools like Albany and Stoney Brook are going about this the correct way.

[danefan]

The right way is debatable. I think continuously challenging the NCAA to give the NEC an at-large in addition to proving a commitment to playoff quality football by scheduling tough OOC schedules is the way to go. We shouldn't just be happy with the status quo of AQ's. I do agree that bitching about it and then scheduling a cake OOC schedule is not a good showing to the rest of FCS.

[lizrdgizrd]

The right way is debatable. I think continuously challenging the NCAA to give the NEC an at-large in addition to proving a commitment to playoff quality football by scheduling tough OOC schedules is the way to go. We shouldn't just be happy with the status quo of AQ's. I do agree that bitching about it and then scheduling a cake OOC schedule is not a good showing to the rest of FCS.
You've got it right. There's absolutely no reason not to keep asking for an AQ when you meet the requirements. Keep scheduling harder OOC competition and get the rest of the conference members to do the same and the level of play for the whole conference goes up. Eventually, some non-AQ conference is going to have an awfully strong argument that'll earn them the AQ from some current AQ conference. xnodx

[89Hen]

I think continuously challenging the NCAA to give the NEC an at-large...
You need to get some more NEC teams to follow your lead. xthumbsupx

[DetroitFlyer]

Once again, the folks that say Non-AQ conferences should just schedule out the wazoo, win all the games, and get an at large bid just do not get it.... 14 years.... I'll say it again, 14 years.... The PFL has been around for 14 years and has NEVER had a bid to the playoffs.... I can watch PL teams get autobids with shaky records at best, and no one complains. USD defeats the Ivy Co-champs, goes undefeated in the PFL, and barely loses to one of the highest ranked teams in all of FCS, ( according to the GPI ), and us PFL fans are just supposed to know our place, shut up, and take it you know where.... AUTOBIDS are good for FCS. Fans in non-AQ conferences have a very tough time getting excited about football programs that NEVER receive a playoff bid. The Gridiron Classic is nothing but an absolutely desperate attempt by the NEC and PFL to have something, anything, since we are shut out of the playoffs. It does no good to be "technically eligible" if your conference NEVER gets a bid. Dayton used to average 8K fans per game when we played in Division III. We won National Championships in 1980 and 1989 and were in the playoffs numerous times in the 1980's. ( Lost the Championship game to Wagner in 1987 ). Since we have been in the PFL, ( otherwise known as the non-playoff league ), attendance has dropped to about 5K per game. PFL Championships are nice, but they are nothing exciting without a playoff bid. Everyone on this board should be interested in building up ALL of FCS, and I mean ALL, EVERY CONFERENCE! Autobids build interest and momentum and provide the driving force towards long term commitment and success. If your agenda is to shrink FCS, chase schools out, and only have a core group of "elite" schools, continue your old guard ways. If you want a thriving division, with every conference rock solid, wake up and smell the coffee and do the right thing!

[DUPFLFan]

When was San Diego ever 11-0? At least get your facts straight.


I apologize, San Diego was 10-0 at the time the bids went out.

Still says that there is no chance of a bid.

[DUPFLFan]

OK.
San Deigo was 10-1 last year.

Wrongo...11-1 They were 10-0 and ranked in the top 25 at the time the bids went out.

[89Hen]

Once again, the folks that say Non-AQ conferences should just schedule out the wazoo, win all the games, and get an at large bid just do not get it...
Liar, liar pants on fire. NOBODY has ever said anything close to that. STOP with your lies and accusations DF. xnonono2x

We have told you time and time and time and time again that Albany gets it, Stony gets it, Monmouth gets it, CCSU gets it... YOU are the only one who doesn't get it.

[89Hen]

I apologize, San Diego was 10-0 at the time the bids went out.

Still says that there is no chance of a bid.
Actually they were 8-0 when the bids went out. The Committee does not regognize sub DI wins. So you are still wrong.

[Col Hogan]

Once again, the folks that say Non-AQ conferences should just schedule out the wazoo, win all the games, and get an at large bid just do not get it.... 14 years.... I'll say it again, 14 years.... The PFL has been around for 14 years and has NEVER had a bid to the playoffs.... I can watch PL teams get autobids with shaky records at best, and no one complains. USD defeats the Ivy Co-champs, goes undefeated in the PFL, and barely loses to one of the highest ranked teams in all of FCS, ( according to the GPI ), and us PFL fans are just supposed to know our place, shut up, and take it you know where.... AUTOBIDS are good for FCS. Fans in non-AQ conferences have a very tough time getting excited about football programs that NEVER receive a playoff bid. The Gridiron Classic is nothing but an absolutely desperate attempt by the NEC and PFL to have something, anything, since we are shut out of the playoffs. It does no good to be "technically eligible" if your conference NEVER gets a bid. Dayton used to average 8K fans per game when we played in Division III. We won National Championships in 1980 and 1989 and were in the playoffs numerous times in the 1980's. ( Lost the Championship game to Wagner in 1987 ). Since we have been in the PFL, ( otherwise known as the non-playoff league ), attendance has dropped to about 5K per game. PFL Championships are nice, but they are nothing exciting without a playoff bid. Everyone on this board should be interested in building up ALL of FCS, and I mean ALL, EVERY CONFERENCE! Autobids build interest and momentum and provide the driving force towards long term commitment and success. If your agenda is to shrink FCS, chase schools out, and only have a core group of "elite" schools, continue your old guard ways. If you want a thriving division, with every conference rock solid, wake up and smell the coffee and do the right thing!

Whose job is it to make a conference rock solid? It's not the NCAA, not the CAAs job to make your conference rock solid...not the SOCONs job to make your conference rock solid...etc, etc,etc.

It's your conferences job to make it rock solid. It benefits everyone for FCS football to be top notch. Conferences that lag behind don't help anyone.

But this isn't welfare, buddy. Build your conference, get the schollies, build teams, play a good OOC, and you will get an at-large bid. You keep going back to San Diego...one example, and IMHO, not a strong one...

You seem to want it given to you like a birth right. Earn it, and I'll support you all the way. But I'll never support just giving it to you because you've been in 1AA/FCS for 14 years.

[Dane96]

Again, stop ducking teams like Albany and I think you would hear less of an argument from people on this board.

Same old argument DetroitFlyer--PFL schedules weakly.

It is clear that you dont like to take in all the facts. I, for one, believe an autobid should eventually come to the NEC. That being said, until the last few years we simply did not schedule well as a league. That has changed.

Additionally, your PFL--San Diego argument is weak. San Diego, well we know when they played their top FCS opponent.

You need a basis for argument, not "14 years." Heck in the last "14 years" I wanted to go to Australia. Only way I can make it happen...by booking a flight and changing my spending patterns.

Wanting something and doing something about it...two different things.

[AggiePride]

Wrongo...11-1 They were 10-0 and ranked in the top 25 at the time the bids went out.

Yeh, good thing they did not get one, we showed they were not a PO caliber team shortly after.

Good job by the committe, they got it right! xnodx

I don't think it will even be an issue this year. JMO

[andy7171]

Wrongo...11-1 They were 10-0 and ranked in the top 25 at the time the bids went out.
So you are saying they weren't 10-1? I think they were. You said 11-0. That they were not. They were 10-1 before they played that last "championship" game.
Are we just going to get nit-picky over everything?

[aceinthehole]

You need to get some more NEC teams to follow your lead. xthumbsupx

I think there are a few. Obviously Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are clearly playing an at-large worthy schedules now (if the win the big games).

Robert Morris, Scared Heart, and Duquense may not be far behind. And of course, Stony Brook would have improved our conference profile. We are worlds away from where we were just 4 years ago, and I can only imagine where we'll be in 2 more seasons.

[Seawolf97]

The NEC is getting stronger with their non conference scheduling .

[*****]

... Are we just going to get nit-picky over everything?Uh yes, we are a nit-picky bunch. xnodx

[89Hen]

I think there are a few. Obviously Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are clearly playing an at-large worthy schedules now (if the win the big games).
Most definitely Ace, didn't mean to exclude you. All three of you get the big xthumbsupx as I alluded to in another post.

[appfan2008]

It would be nice to see... the NEC and others get a bid so that no one will complain about not having one

[downbythebeach]

It would be nice to see... the NEC and others get a bid so that no one will complain about not having one

I can agree with that....The NCAA needs to either write some rules and say why not, or just let all conferences get an AQ.xrulesx

[appfan2008]

I can agree with that....The NCAA needs to either write some rules and say why not, or just let all conferences get an AQ.xrulesx
good idea... reasons as to why people do things can sure go a long way

[Model Citizen]

I think there are a few. Obviously Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are clearly playing an at-large worthy schedules now (if the win the big games).



Most definitely Ace, didn't mean to exclude you. All three of you get the big xthumbsupx as I alluded to in another post.

Couldn't agree more. Even more at-large worthy is the team that beats their conference champion in the Gridiron Classic.

[*****]

I can agree with that....The NCAA needs to either write some rules and say why not, or just let all conferences get an AQ.They do say why not and if you look at most measurements of conference strength the NEC and PFL have work to do. The NEC was a few spots above the PFL this past year but the PFL champ handled the NEC champ in the Gridiron Classic.

[downbythebeach]

oh come on now you know what I mean....Im not even just talking about the past...what about the next few years, what if in a few years say the NEC, PL, MEAC, CAA or any of the other AQ leagues are about equal. Some polls say that the NEC is higher rated, others say the AQ league.....at what point will it be decided that this is the level a conference must reach in order to have a bid.

[*****]

oh come on now you know what I mean....Im not even just talking about the past...what about the next few years, what if in a few years say the NEC, PL, MEAC, CAA or any of the other AQ leagues are about equal. Some polls say that the NEC is higher rated, others say the AQ league.....at what point will it be decided that this is the level a conference must reach in order to have a bid.Ahhhhhhhh the future! Well we had three conference shifts this offseason so far... really tough to predict much IMHO. It has been pretty clear that the NCAA committee wants playoff teams to be on some sort of level field committment-wise ($). That should be coming fairly soon. But like I said, the NEC has a ways to go as a league. But, ahhhhhhh the future... xcoffeex

[UAalum72]

It has been pretty clear that the NCAA committee wants playoff teams to be on some sort of level field committment-wise ($). That should be coming fairly soon.
Pretty clear? Proposal 2006-110 (50 grants-in-aid and/or $1.25M per team to qualify for an automatic bid) passed the Competition Committee by the overwhelming vote of SIX to FIVE - and that's with three conferences sponsoring the proposal.

And I still haven't heard any of the sponsors explain the proposal's language: .1) why low-equivalency leagues "detract from the Division I football experience", (since none has ever been in the playoffs) .2) how the proposal is a remedy .3) what's magic about the number they chose - why not the 56.7 needed to qualify as a FBS opponent for bowl purposes, which would at least have some logic. Why those numbers - other than they were chosen specifically to protect the existing autobids without allowing another as the leagues are currently funded? And are the number of equivalencies available to the public anywhere?

The only thing the low-equivalency leagues detract from is the comfort and peace and quiet at the committee meetings, by annoyingly asking for a bid every year.

[appfan2008]

Ahhhhhhhh the future! Well we had three conference shifts this offseason so far... really tough to predict much IMHO. It has been pretty clear that the NCAA committee wants playoff teams to be on some sort of level field committment-wise ($). That should be coming fairly soon. But like I said, the NEC has a ways to go as a league. But, ahhhhhhh the future... xcoffeex
wouldnt it be great if we all could look into the future

[DetroitFlyer]

Wow, who would have thunk it.... Real fair when a USD outspends a Wofford for example, but is not granted an autobid because the Butler's and Valpo's fund at a much lower level. The numbers are 100% arbitrary and designed specifically to protect the old guard. It is simply amazing the lengths folks will go to in order to protect their own selfish interests. Yeah, I know it would look bad for a 3.5 million funded PL team to lose a playoff game to a $900K funded PFL team.... Let's just do everything possible to breed division among FCS, let's continue to work to exclude the Ivy League, SWAC and maybe someday the MEAC.... Let's really make sure that the PFL and MAAC know their proper place in the world of FCS and work doubly hard to exclude them.... The NEC.... I suppose they can step up and join the old guard, ( whatever the $ needed to join ), or continue to swim upstream and enjoy the divisive, disjointed, world that is FCS football.

And to think there are those of you that still wonder why this level of college football garners so little respect and why no one can even remember the name of the division or that it is technically "Division I ".

This level of college football cannot even pull itself together! Until that happens, good luck improving your image in the world of college football!xoopsx

[danefan]

Ahhhhhhhh the future! Well we had three conference shifts this offseason so far... really tough to predict much IMHO. It has been pretty clear that the NCAA committee wants playoff teams to be on some sort of level field committment-wise ($). That should be coming fairly soon. But like I said, the NEC has a ways to go as a league. But, ahhhhhhh the future... xcoffeex

But how do you expect a league like the NEC to step up without a concrete goal to shoot for? We on here know what they need to do to get an at-large, blah blah blah. Why would the NCAA wait for there to be a controversy? Why not just set a concrete standard? If you have 50 rides/equivalences and you are within a league that has had the proper number of teams playing together for the required amount of time then your league gets an AQ. Why is that so bad? I don't understand the need to be so vague and subjective.......unless those in charge would rather have it vague and subjective in order to protect themselves. xcoffeex

[UAalum72]

Why not just set a concrete standard? If you have 50 rides/equivalences and you are within a league that has had the proper number of teams playing together for the required amount of time then your league gets an AQ. Why is that so bad?
Except that meeting the standard doesn't guarantee an AQ, you'd still have to either kick another off, allow more than half, or expand the playoffs - no change from today.

[danefan]

Except that meeting the standard doesn't guarantee an AQ, you'd still have to either kick another off, allow more than half, or expand the playoffs - no change from today.

You would have to expand or allow more than half of the field to get an AQ. Thats fine with me. If you put in a minimum standard for commitment you'd have a greater argument for expansion. People can't argue dilution anymore can they?

[appfan2008]

I think expanding is fine... allow more aq's and set a goal that a conference has to meet with their average budget so they know what they have to do... they all sound like great ideas to me... how do we get them implemented

[danefan]

how do we get them implemented


Write your local representative?xrotatehx

[*****]

I think expanding is fine... allow more aq's and set a goal that a conference has to meet with their average budget so they know what they have to do... they all sound like great ideas to me... how do we get them implementedThe NCAA has already been working on it, I posted that here. Don't let the whiners throw you off with disinformation and smack. The top eight conferences that can get an AQ currently get them... PERIOD.

[danefan]

The top eight conferences that can get an AQ currently get them... PERIOD.

But how long will that be true? 1 more year? 2 more years? Who knows right? The whole point is for the NCAA to be proactive instead of reactive, which if your information about expansion is correct, it appears they are being proactive.

[lizrdgizrd]

Why not just end AQs completely? Make the playoffs 100% at-large? Because it won't stop the b*tching. Teams are always going to miss the playoffs. The Big South isn't an AQ conference yet somehow one of their teams made it to the playoffs this year. Imagine the embarrassment of the "old guard" when they noticed that little oversite! xrolleyesx

[*****]

But how long will that be true? 1 more year? 2 more years? Who knows right? The whole point is for the NCAA to be proactive instead of reactive, which if your information about expansion is correct, it appears they are being proactive.Of course they are, the FCS leaders have been working for years to make us better. Often dragging the school presidents and ADs by the ears. We have made so much headway this century and with the stuff in the pipeline I feel we are going to be fine.

[*****]

Why not just end AQs completely? Make the playoffs 100% at-large? Because it won't stop the b*tching. Teams are always going to miss the playoffs. The Big South isn't an AQ conference yet somehow one of their teams made it to the playoffs this year. Imagine the embarrassment of the "old guard" when they noticed that little oversite!The BSO was not eligible for an AQ. There was no embarassment. CCU earned it.

[lizrdgizrd]

Wow, who would have thunk it.... Real fair when a USD outspends a Wofford for example, but is not granted an autobid because the Butler's and Valpo's fund at a much lower level. The numbers are 100% arbitrary and designed specifically to protect the old guard. It is simply amazing the lengths folks will go to in order to protect their own selfish interests. Yeah, I know it would look bad for a 3.5 million funded PL team to lose a playoff game to a $900K funded PFL team.... Let's just do everything possible to breed division among FCS, let's continue to work to exclude the Ivy League, SWAC and maybe someday the MEAC.... Let's really make sure that the PFL and MAAC know their proper place in the world of FCS and work doubly hard to exclude them.... The NEC.... I suppose they can step up and join the old guard, ( whatever the $ needed to join ), or continue to swim upstream and enjoy the divisive, disjointed, world that is FCS football.

And to think there are those of you that still wonder why this level of college football garners so little respect and why no one can even remember the name of the division or that it is technically "Division I ".

This level of college football cannot even pull itself together! Until that happens, good luck improving your image in the world of college football!xoopsx
Are you imagining that somehow FBS is somehow the purer of the subdivisions? Let's not overlook the vaunted and maligned BCS. You want to talk old guard protecting $$$ and locking out conferences look no further. xnodx

[lizrdgizrd]

The BSO was not eligible for an AQ. There was no embarassment. CCU earned it.
xoopsx I forgot my xrolleyesx ! xwhistlex

EDIT: fixed it. xnodx

[*****]

What about Cal Poly (also from a five team conference)? Was that an embarassment too?

[89Hen]

Let's really make sure that the PFL and MAAC know their proper place in the world of FCS and work doubly hard to exclude them.... The NEC.... I suppose they can step up and join the old guard...
How is it that the NEC and teams like Cal Poly, Coastal Carolina, UC-D, NDSU, SDSU, and new teams like Presbyterian, UCA, UND, USD.... can all find a way to join the "old guard" but the PFL can't? Hmmmm... don't forget DF, when you point your finger, there are three more pointing back at you.xpeacex

[89Hen]

But how do you expect a league like the NEC to step up without a concrete goal to shoot for?
Getting an auto is not concrete enough for you? I don't hear the Big South guys complaining about not having a concrete goal.

[danefan]

Getting an auto is not concrete enough for you? I don't hear the Big South guys complaining about not having a concrete goal.
I'm confused.

Having a standard set to get an auto is concrete. That's what I'm trying to say.

[89Hen]

What about Cal Poly (also from a five team conference)? Was that an embarassment too?
Ralph, I'm pretty sure lizrd was being sarcastic about DF continued use of the "old guard" routine. Seems like we can name dozens of teams that have found a way into the "old guard" yet he STILL thinks there is some kind of secret society behind I-AA.

[lizrdgizrd]

What about Cal Poly (also from a five team conference)? Was that an embarassment too?
I think you misunderstood or I wasn't sufficiently sarcastic. I think there are road maps for teams from non-AQ conferences to follow to make the playoffs. CCU was merely the most recent example. CP is another great team that has proven itself worthy of the playoffs. xnodx

[*****]

Naw, I know. I just left CP out of my previous post.

Lemme see if I can remember any NCAA D-I football champions that weren't in an AQ conference............. there must be at least one........

[CCU97]

I can unfortunately see this from both sides....I agree that it needs to be clear exactly what is needed in order for a conference to get an autobid...and if a conference is denied a request for an auto bid that should also be made clear as to why(It normally is). But currently...being the key word ....the 8 conferences with autobids are the ones who deserve them....in the future that will probably not be the case....before that happens and before conferences and the "old guard" get in a fight about who deserves a spot...the NCAA should be proactive and lay everything on the line stating that if and when a conference reaches X goal that an AQ will be extended and the playoffs expanded...that way a bid is not removed from a current AQ and conferences have a goal to achieve. True, we proved last year that you can get an at large bid if you aren't from an AQ but a team and a conference can only live with an at large bid for so long if teams that are worse and conferences that are worse continue to automatically get a bid to the playoffs ahead of them....that hasn't happened yet...but the possibility of that occuring is a very realistic point...why wait till then???

[DetroitFlyer]

I do not frequent any FBS message boards, but I have a feeling that they are not having to write to the football press about the misuse of the "Division I" moniker.... Just a guess on my part. FBS has many shortcomings, but an identity is not one of them.... FCS on the other hand....

So, the question is, how do you solidify the FCS identity? Do you follow the FBS example and make it 100% about money? Many folks here seem to leaning that direction.... Odd for a division that exists due to "cost containment". Now we are talking about defining the amount of cash a team / conference must spend to play "cost containment" football, at least if you wish to have any prayer of an automatic playoff bid.... If you could remain the least bit objective, and step off your high horses, you would see just how silly this is. FCS, IMHO, would be much better off working to include the entire division, and yes that means Ivy, SWAC, PFL, NEC, MAAC, etc. Instead, the old guard chooses to follow the FBS model, make it about the money, and try to define the division by the amount of cash necessary to play "cost containment" football. Good luck with that, as it has worked so well for FBS!! (LOL Bigtime )!!

[lizrdgizrd]

I can unfortunately see this from both sides....I agree that it needs to be clear exactly what is needed in order for a conference to get an autobid...and if a conference is denied a request for an auto bid that should also be made clear as to why(It normally is). But currently...being the key word ....the 8 conferences with autobids are the ones who deserve them....in the future that will probably not be the case....before that happens and before conferences and the "old guard" get in a fight about who deserves a spot...the NCAA should be proactive and lay everything on the line stating that if and when a conference reaches X goal that an AQ will be extended and the playoffs expanded...that way a bid is not removed from a current AQ and conferences have a goal to achieve. True, we proved last year that you can get an at large bid if you aren't from an AQ but a team and a conference can only live with an at large bid for so long if teams that are worse and conferences that are worse continue to automatically get a bid to the playoffs ahead of them....that hasn't happened yet...but the possibility of that occuring is a very realistic point...why wait till then???
Why expand the playoffs? I don't have a problem with a conference getting its AQ taken away and given to another conference. I think it might encourage some conferences to really step up. In fact, I think it would be beneficial for the entire subdivision if the AQs weren't announced until the end of the season. Then when one conference really makes headway it can be rewarded and everyone will have to do their best to make the most of every season.

[89Hen]

the NCAA should be proactive and lay everything on the line stating that if and when a conference reaches X goal that an AQ will be extended and the playoffs expanded...
In all seriousness, I'd love to hear your proposal. I don't see any way the NCAA can set exact guidelines like that and appease the complainers. Furthermore, it's not like you can just expand one or two teams unless you're talking about a play-in game, which would mean you'd have a week between the regular season and the playoffs in which two teams are playing, the rest of the field being off. This would also push the Championship Game to Christmas week in the middle of bowl season.

[CCU97]

In all seriousness, I'd love to hear your proposal. I don't see any way the NCAA can set exact guidelines like that and appease the complainers. Furthermore, it's not like you can just expand one or two teams unless you're talking about a play-in game, which would mean you'd have a week between the regular season and the playoffs in which two teams are playing, the rest of the field being off. This would also push the Championship Game to Christmas week in the middle of bowl season.

If you expanded the field to 24 that doesn't mean that their has to be 12 AQ....so the expansion would not be by one or two teams....No you aren't going to make everyone happy...but at least you have a standard to go by and a reason for excluding a conference...As for the Championship game being in the middle of bowl season...Who cares? Either you are a person that pulls for a team in the game or you pull for a FBS team that has a game at that time....if you are both....then you are confused and should choose which is more important to you....I would watch the FCS Championship over any bowl game being played even if my team wasn't playing....

[*****]

...Who cares?....The BCS. :(

[CCU97]

Why expand the playoffs? I don't have a problem with a conference getting its AQ taken away and given to another conference. I think it might encourage some conferences to really step up. In fact, I think it would be beneficial for the entire subdivision if the AQs weren't announced until the end of the season. Then when one conference really makes headway it can be rewarded and everyone will have to do their best to make the most of every season.

Personally I don't have a problem with taking someones AQ either....but ask the OVC, MEAC, or any conference who has been near the bottom and could lose their AQ how they feel....was trying to find a middle ground that would rock the boat a little less...

[CCU97]

The BCS. :(

sure they do....but why would anyone who is a fan of FCS care?

[*****]

sure they do....but why would anyone who is a fan of FCS care?Not saying I care but that's why the FCS playoffs will not be in the middle of the bowel season.

[lizrdgizrd]

I do not frequent any FBS message boards, but I have a feeling that they are not having to write to the football press about the misuse of the "Division I" moniker.... Just a guess on my part. FBS has many shortcomings, but an identity is not one of them.... FCS on the other hand....

So, the question is, how do you solidify the FCS identity? Do you follow the FBS example and make it 100% about money? Many folks here seem to leaning that direction.... Odd for a division that exists due to "cost containment". Now we are talking about defining the amount of cash a team / conference must spend to play "cost containment" football, at least if you wish to have any prayer of an automatic playoff bid.... If you could remain the least bit objective, and step off your high horses, you would see just how silly this is. FCS, IMHO, would be much better off working to include the entire division, and yes that means Ivy, SWAC, PFL, NEC, MAAC, etc. Instead, the old guard chooses to follow the FBS model, make it about the money, and try to define the division by the amount of cash necessary to play "cost containment" football. Good luck with that, as it has worked so well for FBS!! (LOL Bigtime )!!
Why do you include the Ivy as "left out"? They choose not to be in the playoffs.

[lizrdgizrd]

Personally I don't have a problem with taking someones AQ either....but ask the OVC, MEAC, or any conference who has been near the bottom and could lose their AQ how they feel....was trying to find a middle ground that would rock the boat a little less...
I don't have a problem with rocking the boat. My personal preference is for no AQs at all. Let every team make the playoffs on their own merits. xnodx

[*****]

Why do you include the Ivy as "left out"? They choose not to be in the playoffs.Same with the SWAC LG, it is plain old disinformation by DT so that his conspiracy works in his mind.

[89Hen]

If you expanded the field to 24 that doesn't mean that their has to be 12 AQ....so the expansion would not be by one or two teams....No you aren't going to make everyone happy...but at least you have a standard to go by and a reason for excluding a conference...
But you are in fact adding six or seven non-deserving teams to accomodate one or two teams who would presumably be below the 8 current auto-bid conferences (otherwise they'd get one of the 8 autos)


As for the Championship game being in the middle of bowl season...Who cares? Either you are a person that pulls for a team in the game or you pull for a FBS team that has a game at that time....if you are both....then you are confused and should choose which is more important to you....I would watch the FCS Championship over any bowl game being played even if my team wasn't playing....
Don't confuse me having to make a decision and the NCAA and ESPN having to make a decision. Of course everyone on this board would rather watch the I-AA NC, but AFAIK, none of us work for the NCAA or ESPN.

[CCU97]

I don't have a problem with rocking the boat. My personal preference is for no AQs at all. Let every team make the playoffs on their own merits. xnodx

I think this idea has much more merit than most...if the AQ was done away with and that way each team had to earn their way in....that leads to it being much more equal...you play a weak schedule and don't prove you deserve it....you don't get in....you play too tough of one and lose...you don't get in....you win against quality teams....you get in....How hard is that....

[89Hen]

I think this idea has much more merit than most...if the AQ was done away with and that way each team had to earn their way in....that leads to it being much more equal...
It would also lead to a lot more discussions like the one we're having now. Imagine the PFL, NEC, PL, OVC and MEAC ALL being left out one year. xeekx

[CCU97]

But you are in fact adding six or seven non-deserving teams to accomodate one or two teams who would presumably be below the 8 current auto-bid conferences (otherwise they'd get one of the 8 autos)


Don't confuse me having to make a decision and the NCAA and ESPN having to make a decision. Of course everyone on this board would rather watch the I-AA NC, but AFAIK, none of us work for the NCAA or ESPN.


As for the first part...right now you are correct....but read the original post...this is based on the very real reality that conferences will be higher than the OVC and MEAC and qualify for the AQ and not get it....the otherwise that you say is not a given....the NCAA does not want to take away an AQ from a conference....

I agree that it may require that a different TV agreement be made....but I'm sure Fox Sport or some other national sports channel would be happy to pay for the right to show the game....

[appfan2008]

I think 24 teams would be ideal and any conference in fcs that wants an aq can have one... what is wrong with that???

[CCU97]

It would also lead to a lot more discussions like the one we're having now. Imagine the PFL, NEC, PL, OVC and MEAC ALL being left out one year. xeekx

If you play a bad schedule...why should you be in the playoffs? This isn't the invite everyone and their brother cause we like you championship...that would be the NCAA basketball tourney....take the 16 best teams in the FCS and let them fight it out....if you are a team that does not choose to participate in the playoffs...the next team down gets your spot....Now...the only question would be how to determine who the 16 best teams are....do you go by the RPI?...do you go by a poll?.....I don't have that answer...but anything is better than sitting back and not doing a thing...

[appfan2008]

If you play a bad schedule...why should you be in the playoffs? This isn't the invite everyone and their brother cause we like you championship...that would be the NCAA basketball tourney....take the 16 best teams in the FCS and let them fight it out....if you are a team that does not choose to participate in the playoffs...the next team down gets your spot....Now...the only question would be how to determine who the 16 best teams are....do you go by the RPI?...do you go by a poll?.....I don't have that answer...but anything is better than sitting back and not doing a thing...
why not choose them just like they do today... with a commitee?

[*****]

....do you go by the RPI?...do you go by a poll?.....I don't have that answer...but anything is better than sitting back and not doing a thing...Not the RPI (based on W/L regardless of strength) or poll (whim of voters who pay little attention to the entire division). You use a well informed committee who take their job seriously. You give AQs to the champs of the top 8 conferences and take the next best eight teams that are available. Oops, that's how they do it now! Hardly sitting back and doing nothing. xtwocentsx

[appfan2008]

Not the RPI (based on W/L regardless of strength) or poll (whim of voters who pay little attention to the entire division). You use a well informed committee who take their job seriously. You give AQs to the champs of the top 8 conferences and take the next best eight teams that are available. Oops, that's how they do it now! Hardly sitting back and doing nothing. xtwocentsx
we all know that is the only/best way to do it!

[CCU97]

Not the RPI (based on W/L regardless of strength) or poll (whim of voters who pay little attention to the entire division). You use a well informed committee who take their job seriously. You give AQs to the champs of the top 8 conferences and take the next best eight teams that are available. Oops, that's how they do it now! Hardly sitting back and doing nothing. xtwocentsx

The top 8 conferences according to what? cause last year the top 8 didn't get the AQ or if you use the previous year then fine...this year the top 8 will not get the AQ....it should be phrased the top 8 current AQs that are eligible and participate...because the last time I checked there were several conferences that had AQs that were behind the Big South last year.....

[89Hen]

this is based on the very real reality that conferences will be higher than the OVC and MEAC and qualify for the AQ and not get it....the otherwise that you say is not a given....the NCAA does not want to take away an AQ from a conference....
xconfusedx Are you privvy to some info the rest of us aren't? I wouldn't even come close to calling this "the very real reality". Besides that being a little redundant :p it is also very speculative. We don't know if any will be 'higher than the OVC and MEAC'. The NEC got quite a bit weaker IMO by replacing SB with Duquesne and the Big South still has a long way to go to show they have anyone besides CCU that is playoff worthy. You also speculate that the NCAA won't take away anyone's bid. I would agree that they don't want to, but that's only natural IMO.

[DetroitFlyer]

Why do the SWAC and Ivy League CHOOSE not to participate in the FCS playoffs? Show me the effort the NCAA and specifically the FCS has put forth to pull these conferences back into the fold, so to speak.... For crying out loud, technically the PFL chooses not to participate in the FCS playoffs by not pushing for an autobid. Although I guess it could be argued that a PFL team would accept a bid if it were ever offered.... What is the FCS doing to make sure the MEAC does not leave the party and follow the SWAC model?

Yeah, I thought so.... Mis-information.... Not!!

Instead, let's work on making sure those conferences that have already been ordained by the old guard keep a firm grip on FCS, and that those on the outside looking in remain that way....

Once again, those of you on the high horses cannot see the forest through the trees. FCS is doing NOTHING to pull this division together given the unique needs of the various conferences. Instead, a core group of old guard folks is working to secure their way of life.

[89Hen]

If you play a bad schedule...why should you be in the playoffs? This isn't the invite everyone and their brother cause we like you championship...that would be the NCAA basketball tourney....take
You've completely thown me off your trail now. You want every conference to have an AQ one minute, now you don't want to make it like the bball tourney and include teams that really don't belong. xrotatehx xconfusedx

[lizrdgizrd]

I think 24 teams would be ideal and any conference in fcs that wants an aq can have one... what is wrong with that???
That lets in teams who don't deserve to be there in the first place. We're trying to get the best teams from FCS, not one from every conference and then some extra ones who deserve it. Even with the current setup you get teams who wouldn't have made it in without the AQ (Lafayette) and teams that deserve it miss out (PSU).

[89Hen]

Why do the SWAC and Ivy League CHOOSE not to participate in the FCS playoffs? Show me the effort the NCAA and specifically the FCS has put forth to pull these conferences back into the fold, so to speak.... For crying out loud, technically the PFL chooses not to participate in the FCS playoffs by not pushing for an autobid. Although I guess it could be argued that a PFL team would accept a bid if it were ever offered.... What is the FCS doing to make sure the MEAC does not leave the party and follow the SWAC model?

Yeah, I thought so.... Mis-information.... Not!!

Instead, let's work on making sure those conferences that have already been ordained by the old guard keep a firm grip on FCS, and that those on the outside looking in remain that way....

Once again, those of you on the high horses cannot see the forest through the trees. FCS is doing NOTHING to pull this division together given the unique needs of the various conferences. Instead, a core group of old guard folks is working to secure their way of life.
xlolx Every time you open your mouth you keep proving you are all about nothing but lies and misinformation. Now it's the NCAA's fault that the SWAC and Ivy don't participate. xlolx I'd keep a look out for the men in white suits today if I were you.

Keep ignoring the fact that MANY, MANY teams have broken into the 'old guard'. Eveyone except you gets it.

[appfan2008]

if you are an fcs conference then why do you not deserve to be in the fcs playoffs... sort of like the basketball tourney... we know some teams wont win but they are in the same level so their conference gets a shot

[appfan2008]

xlolx Every time you open your mouth you keep proving you are all about nothing but lies and misinformation. Now it's the NCAA's fault that the SWAC and Ivy don't participate. xlolx I'd keep a look out for the men in white suits today if I were you.

Keep ignoring the fact that MANY, MANY teams have broken into the 'old guard'. Eveyone except you gets it.
I agree the Ivy doesnt want to do it... so what... they dont have to ...

[lizrdgizrd]

Why do the SWAC and Ivy League CHOOSE not to participate in the FCS playoffs? Show me the effort the NCAA and specifically the FCS has put forth to pull these conferences back into the fold, so to speak.... For crying out loud, technically the PFL chooses not to participate in the FCS playoffs by not pushing for an autobid. Although I guess it could be argued that a PFL team would accept a bid if it were ever offered.... What is the FCS doing to make sure the MEAC does not leave the party and follow the SWAC model?

Yeah, I thought so.... Mis-information.... Not!!

Instead, let's work on making sure those conferences that have already been ordained by the old guard keep a firm grip on FCS, and that those on the outside looking in remain that way....

Once again, those of you on the high horses cannot see the forest through the trees. FCS is doing NOTHING to pull this division together given the unique needs of the various conferences. Instead, a core group of old guard folks is working to secure their way of life.
Why should the NCAA try to manipulate the Ivy and SWAC into participating in a playoff that they are welcome to participate in whenever they like? Why should we manipulate the MEAC into continuing to participate in the playoffs if they decide they don't want to? Are you saying the NCAA should force conferences to participate?

I'm sorry you can't get over your inferiority complex, but the simple fact is that teams can and have made the playoffs without being in an AQ conference. There is no conspiracy to keep the PFL or NEC down. The NEC is taking steps to up their level of play. SD might have had a chance at the playoffs last year if they hadn't scheduled themselves a game during the first week and lost to the only decent FCS competition they faced. xnonono2x xpeacex

[lizrdgizrd]

if you are an fcs conference then why do you not deserve to be in the fcs playoffs... sort of like the basketball tourney... we know some teams wont win but they are in the same level so their conference gets a shot
That's just it, we don't want to have a championship tournament that everyone gets to go to. We want the 16 best teams in the FCS.

[CCU97]

You've completely thown me off your trail now. You want every conference to have an AQ one minute, now you don't want to make it like the bball tourney and include teams that really don't belong. xrotatehx xconfusedx

I've never stated that I want every conference to have one....only the ones who deserve one based one X standard....

As for the Big South not currently having anyone who is ready for the playoffs...that is true but the MEAC has only had Hampton as of late who has been there....Last year the Big South was ranked ahead of each of those conferences and if that trend continues....it is a very realistic..as for not removing a conference's AQ...I just don't see the NCAA doing it....it could happen...but then you would see these very same arguments coming from them...

[*****]

... last time I checked there were several conferences that had AQs that were behind the Big South last year.....I said that already just a few posts ago.

[89Hen]

if you are an fcs conference then why do you not deserve to be in the fcs playoffs... sort of like the basketball tourney... we know some teams wont win but they are in the same level so their conference gets a shot
Because football and basketball (and any other sport for that matter) are completely different beasts. In a four day period bball can whittle down their field from 64 to 16 and injuries are a rather rare occurance in bball (compared to football).

[CCU97]

That's just it, we don't want to have a championship tournament that everyone gets to go to. We want the 16 best teams in the FCS.

I personally agree with this statement...however...that currently does not happen...it is the 8 best from the AQ conferences and then the 8 other teams who are best in the committee's eyes....

[lizrdgizrd]

I personally agree with this statement...however...that currently does not happen...it is the 8 best from the AQ conferences and then the 8 other teams who are best in the committee's eyes....
That's why my personal preference is for no AQs. But realistically that's not going to happen. I'd love to see a shakeup with some conferences loosing the AQ and others gaining one. There'd be lots of action trying to win back the AQ for the next season. xnodx

[CCU97]

I said that already just a few posts ago......The BSO was not eligible for an AQ. There was no embarassment. CCU earned it.

This was what was said...not the same as the context of what I posted...making the playoffs as an at-large isn't nearly the same thing as a conference who earns an AQ once eligible....