Southern Conference Week 8 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I was 3-2 last week. I thought ETSU would be improved but I did not think they would be 6-1 at this point. Samford looks like someone you really don't want to play. Here's where I have after yesterday's games numbers in parenthesis indicates the number of wins needed vs. games remaining for a chance at an at-large bid).

1) East Tennessee State (2 of 4) - Won a game I thought they would win at the outset.
2) Wofford (3 of 5) - Had a disappointing effort.
3) Chattanooga (2 of 4) - Got back on track against WCU.
4) Furman (5 of 5) - Still fighting for their playoff lives.
5) Samford (OUT) - Stomped the ever living daylights out of VMI.
6) Mercer (4 of 5) - Came up short on the road.
7) Western Carolina (5 of 5) - Had no answers against Chattanooga.
8) The Citadel (OUT) - Had nothing to be ashamed of.
9) VMI (OUT) - Are who we thought they are at this point.

This Week's Games
The Citadel @ VMI - Bulldogs bring home the Silver Shako.
ETSU @ Wofford (Game of the Week) - Bucs show they belong at this level.
Samford @ Furman - Hurricane Samford hits Furman with full force.
Western Carolina @ Mercer - Bears make it a short day at home.

Auto Bid Status
VMI - eliminated from getting the autobid
Western Carolina and The Citadel can be eliminated this week with loss and ETSU win.

[bonarae]

The Citadel
ETSU
Samford
Mercer

[FUGameBreaker]

Power Poll:

1) ETSU (have won 4 socon games by a total of 11 points, but a win is a win)
2) Furman (looking in control with Harris Roberts at QB now)
3) Wofford (still a talented team, might need to add a few wrinkles in the offense to become more dangerous)
4) UTC (they have been solid this year)
5) Samford (their Offense is not to be taken lightly still)
6) Mercer (is Bobby Lamb destined for another .500 type season?)
7) Citadel (coach in his 3rd season now, past 2 years seems to be a sinking ship)
8) WCU (a hot mess)
9) VMI (the losing streak continues)

[PaladinFan]

The Samford/Furman matchup is an interesting one. Hodges & Co. have lit up two bad defenses at home the last two weeks. A Furman team on the road is a different cat.

Unlike the Wofford game, where I thought the game would be decided by Furman's offense, I think this game will come down to the defense. The Paladins, while having an impressive game against Wofford yesterday, has been far weaker against the pass. I still think that Furman has too much talent in the defensive backfield for that trend to continue.

Furman and Samford played to a near draw in Homewood last season. I think the Paladin offense is going to get their points. The question will be how often Furman can hold out the Bulldog offense.

I think Furman probably the league's best pass rush, and has shown a tendency to disrupt QBs. Even yesterday Furman was able to pressure Newman, which is not easy considering Wofford doesn't signal when they are throwing and Newman rarely holds the ball very long.

The benefit there is Furman can usually provide pressure while rushing 3 or 4. When a team is able to drop 7 or 8 in coverage, Samford has tended to struggle this season. Having watched Furman batter around ETSU's QBs, Adams, and then get to Newman a few times, I'm inclined to think they'll make things difficult for Hodges as well.

[FUBeAR]

Auto Bid Status
VMI - eliminated from getting the autobid
Western Carolina and The Citadel can be eliminated this week with loss and ETSU win.

To expand on this...each Team’s CURRENT path to SoCon Championship AND Autobid...

Here’s the way I cipher it out at this point...Unless I’m missing something, I believe, after this week’s results, that only ETSU & Mercer truly control their own destinies with regard to the SoCon Championship & the NCAA FCS Playoffs Autobid that is extended to the SoCon Champion (with some tie-breaking procedures that begin with head-to-head results).

Definition of “control their own destinies” - either of these Teams... ‘only’ ... have to win all of their remaining SoCon games and they will be the SoCon Champs AND get the Playoff Autobid...

CONTROL THEIR OWN DESTINIES
* ETSU - 4-0 - If they beat WC, WCU, MU, & SU = 8-0 - Solo Champs + Autobid
* MU - 2-1 - If they beat WCU, WC, ETSU, UTC, & FU = 7-1 - At worst, tie for Champ w/ETSU AND get Autobid. Outright Champ if ETSU loses 1+ ‘other’ game

STRAIGHTFORWARD PATH, BUT ALSO NEED 1 OTHER TEAM TO LOSE
* FU - 2-1 - If they beat SU, CIT, UTC, VMI, & MU = 7-1 - At worst, tie for Champ w/ETSU, but no Autobid unless ETSU loses 2+
* WC - 3-1 - If they beat ETSU, MU, SU, & WCU = 7-1 - At worst, tie for Champ, but needs FU to lose 1+ to secure Autobid

COMPLICATED PATH INVOLVING 2 OR 3 OTHER TEAMS
* UTC - 3-2 - If they beat VMI, FU, & MU = 6-2 - Would need ETSU to lose 3+ AND WC to lose 2+ to get Autobid
* SU - 2-2 - If they beat FU, WC, CIT, ETSU = 6-2 - Would need ETSU to lose 1+ ‘other’ game AND need MU to lose 2+, and need UTC to lose 1+ to get Autobid

EXTREMELY COMPLICATED PATH INVOLVING MULTIPLE TEAMS; PATH MAY NOT EVEN BE POSSIBLE
* WCU - 1-3 - If they beat MU, ETSU, CIT, & WC = 5-3 - Would need ETSU to lose 2+ ‘other’ games AND MU & WC to lose 1+ ‘other’ game, AND FU to lose 3+ AND need UTC & SU to lose 2+
* CIT - 1-3 - If they beat VMI, FU, WCU, & SU = 5-3 - Would need ETSU to lose (all) 4 AND need MU AND UTC to lose 2+ AND would need FU to lose 1 ‘other’ game AND would need WC to lose 3+

NO PATH
* VMI - 0-5 - Cannot win SoCon nor get Autobid


Anyone see this ciphering as incorrect?

[PaladinNation]

The Samford/Furman matchup is an interesting one. Hodges & Co. have lit up two bad defenses at home the last two weeks. A Furman team on the road is a different cat.

Unlike the Wofford game, where I thought the game would be decided by Furman's offense, I think this game will come down to the defense. The Paladins, while having an impressive game against Wofford yesterday, has been far weaker against the pass. I still think that Furman has too much talent in the defensive backfield for that trend to continue.

Furman and Samford played to a near draw in Homewood last season. I think the Paladin offense is going to get their points. The question will be how often Furman can hold out the Bulldog offense.

I think Furman probably the league's best pass rush, and has shown a tendency to disrupt QBs. Even yesterday Furman was able to pressure Newman, which is not easy considering Wofford doesn't signal when they are throwing and Newman rarely holds the ball very long.

The benefit there is Furman can usually provide pressure while rushing 3 or 4. When a team is able to drop 7 or 8 in coverage, Samford has tended to struggle this season. Having watched Furman batter around ETSU's QBs, Adams, and then get to Newman a few times, I'm inclined to think they'll make things difficult for Hodges as well.

Hendrix said in his postgame comments - that we're going to enjoy this win, they have already put in some work for the next opponent (Samford) then get to it on Sunday. Clay also mentioned Hope in comparing the Wofford game to the Samford game, as you mentioned Hope didn't play a ton against the Terriers but when he did he was disruptive. It's going to be fun to watch what Staggs throws at Hodgens - should be a great game.

[gofurman]

The Samford/Furman matchup is an interesting one. Hodges & Co. have lit up two bad defenses at home the last two weeks. A Furman team on the road is a different cat.

Unlike the Wofford game, where I thought the game would be decided by Furman's offense, I think this game will come down to the defense. The Paladins, while having an impressive game against Wofford yesterday, has been far weaker against the pass. I still think that Furman has too much talent in the defensive backfield for that trend to continue.

Furman and Samford played to a near draw in Homewood last season. I think the Paladin offense is going to get their points. The question will be how often Furman can hold out the Bulldog offense.

I think Furman probably the league's best pass rush, and has shown a tendency to disrupt QBs. Even yesterday Furman was able to pressure Newman, which is not easy considering Wofford doesn't signal when they are throwing and Newman rarely holds the ball very long.

The benefit there is Furman can usually provide pressure while rushing 3 or 4. When a team is able to drop 7 or 8 in coverage, Samford has tended to struggle this season. Having watched Furman batter around ETSU's QBs, Adams, and then get to Newman a few times, I'm inclined to think they'll make things difficult for Hodges as well.

Therein lies the rub

It's all about matchups. Woff and Citadel should worry about us now. Samford isn't shaking in their boots watching Henrik 2nd half and Tyrie Adams. Matchups mean as much as talent.

I agree we have too much talent and senior players for our DBs to look this bad. honestly i understand our OL is young.. Roberts had never been a starter etc. but the DBs are the most senior and v talented group - and they havent even turned around to look for the ball when in the air... it's truly baffling. we look like we are playing a bunch of freshman DBs when that is far from the case.

[The Cats]

Not ready to make all my picks, but I think this could be the week VMI gets the monkey off their back. Playing at home, they can beat the Bulldogs.

[Mocs123]

VMI could certainly beat The Citadel this week, but I don't think they will. I do think they will knock off somebody this year though, and they may have as good of chance against the Bulldogs as anyone. I just hope they don't make their move the following week.

[ElCid]

VMI could certainly beat The Citadel this week, but I don't think they will. I do think they will knock off somebody this year though, and they may have as good of chance against the Bulldogs as anyone. I just hope they don't make their move the following week.

Don't forget that VMI has an extra incentive in the game next week. The Silver Shako isn't up for grabs just any ole week! Seriously, VMI almost always plays us tough. I think they have something good going on. They are headed in the right direction in any event. And we are pretty much done. Hope our coach can salvage a respectable season. We aren't bad, we just are not real good right now. We have some very good backs, a decent QB who improves every week, but an oline that has been somewhat disrupted this year. Not to mention, still a little green. Our D isn't bad, but inconsistent at times. It just didn't come together this year, but I like our prospects the next couple years. I haven't looked closely at our game next week, but it could be dicey if the ball bounces VMI's way.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Has anyone seen citdog these days? He apparently fell off the face of the planet after the Wofford game last year.

[PaladinFan]

VMI's defense is surrendering over 54 points a game. That's almost 8 touchdowns a game.

Not sure they are going to be beating anyone as long as that trend continues. Their offense is good, but it's hard when you have to score 50+ to win.

[PaladinFan]

Hendrix said in his postgame comments - that we're going to enjoy this win, they have already put in some work for the next opponent (Samford) then get to it on Sunday. Clay also mentioned Hope in comparing the Wofford game to the Samford game, as you mentioned Hope didn't play a ton against the Terriers but when he did he was disruptive. It's going to be fun to watch what Staggs throws at Hodgens - should be a great game.

Hope appeared to get in the game a good bit later when Wofford was having to throw. He disrupted one of Newman's passes in the fourth quarter hitting him from behind. Again, Newman is a really tough guy to sack because he doesn't throw it a bunch, and most of his throws are quick drops. So, getting back there is a feat in itself.

It'll be fascinating to watch what sort of changes the defense makes against Samford in terms of scheme and personnel. We've surrendered some pass yards this season, though I am still bullish on this defense.

[FUBeAR]

So...I didn't like myself very much last week because I was lying to myself with my PowerRankings. This week FUBeAR is rankin' 'em as he sees 'em TODAY...not who beat who 3-6 weeks ago or who's gonna be better two weeks from now...not who was or was not ranked at the beginning of the season...considering all Players that I know are available and ones that I know are hurt...and the like.

PowerRankings
1) Furman - GREAT Coaches adapt their Teams to best utilize the personnel that they have. At the beginning of the season, on O, FU was trying to be who they 'thought they might be,' but during the ETSU game they saw (and accepted) who they were and they began to build around and grow that. It's worked beautifully and the Offense is clicking. They will only get better every week on that side of the ball. On D, FU clearly demonstrated vs. Wofford they can stop a highly effective run game. They have not been very good against the pass...and if they aren't this week, they won't be in this position in next week's FUBeAR's PowerRankings because Sanford will LIGHT THEM UP. But, the Players that FU has in in the Secondary are just too talented to not have it come together at some point...and the timing is JUST RIGHT for them to do that this week.

2) Sanford - Yep - It is very close between them and the Team I see as #3 on my list, but this Team has too much talent all over the field to stay down...as they've shown in the past 2 weeks, albeit against less than stellar defenses. The loss to Mercer coming off the "win" over FSU...which became the 'true loss' that it was after Mercer beat them, just psychologically crushed this group. So, they 'funked around' for 2 weeks and gave up 2 more bad losses to UTC and KSU (Yes - I think this was a bad loss for Sanford). With their egos (and confidence) restored in the past 2 weeks, they will make a strong opponent this Sat. against my #1 Team and I expect a TOUGH game. If the Bullpups find a way to win...who knows the chips may fall the right way for them and a Team that was on Life Support 3 weeks ago may have a chance to make a run in the Playoffs. They are good enough to be there and to do just that.

3) Wofford - Still a very good Football Team...just not as good as they (and most everyone else) thought. They ran into a DC last week that probably make a living as a Consultant stopping option Teams and FU had the Team speed on D to keep their prolific O in check. They have some trouble spots on D, but I expect them to demonstrate why they are ahead of #4 in my rankings this week with a solid bounce-back effort at home for their Homecoming game. Then 2 tough ones and 2 'bye weeks' to rest up for the Playoffs. Even if they lose 1 of the 'tough ones,' they should solidly still be in the Playoffs at 8-3. If they lose both, they still should be a Playoff Team at 7-4 IMO. They are FAR, FAR better than some of those CAA and Big Sky 7-4 Teams that have made the Playoffs.

4) ETSU - #4 on my list is this year's Wofford from last year. They are BARELY winning their SoCon games. They have won 4 SoCon games by a TOTAL of 11 points. But this year's ETSU is not as good as last year's Wofford and that will be shown this week when the Terriers put a serious bite on them. That won't derail their Playoff nor SoCon Championship aspirations unless they let it shake their confidence. They caught FU at the perfect time and then found a way to EARN that win. But my sense is they finish 7-4/5-3 and, unfortunately, miss the Playoffs. They, like Woffy (if they finish 7-4), are as good as some of those prior year 7-4 Teams and deserve a shot. At 8-3/5-2, I sure would hope they would get a bid, but without a recent “Rep,” they could be shunned.

5) Mercer - At this point, I don't see much separation between #5-#7, but I gotta rank 'em....so...Mercer's corps of WR's gives them the edge IMO. Irvin, Durden, Houzah, and Cannon (a former walk-on) are really something special to watch. Yale had no hope of covering them. Mercer, after (once again) starting out the game like they were in a coma and getting down 21-0, should have just thrown it deep every play from that point on. Those 4 cats would have found a way to get to the ball, as they did on several occasions, despite the apparent ordinance in the city of New Haven that prohibits damage to Yale's students' self-esteem by calling DPI on them AND the occasional inexplicable inability to THROW the ball hard/fast. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened this year if Riddle hadn't been injured. I also think Mercer's D is better than the stats show, but they do have some issues in the secondary that can be exploited and they are banged up. They may finish strong and move up or they could tank...we'll see. They do control their own destiny though - Win out and the Bears are your SoCon Champs and Playoff representative.

6) Chattanooga - Just kinda 'meh' - think they could be better than they have shown. They have a chance to show something in their 2 finishing games

7) The Citadel - Hate they kind of screwed up Mercer's season - maybe in a couple of ways. They aren't a bad Team, but I'm seeing 3-8 / 4-7. Does their HC stay with that kind of record, based on the trend & coming off their successes in '15 & '16?

8) VMI - Still think they've improved and still think their O makes them better than #9...but they didn't do themselves any favors with their showing vs. Sanford. HUGE opportunity for them to end the streak this week. Might need to do it too if they're going to end the streak this year....Tusculum shut out Newberry last week...and we all know what a POWERHOUSE Newberry is!!!

9) WCU - better than expected vs. Chatt. - great oppty this week to go down to Maconga & make FUBeAR completely re-evaluate these PowerRankings. Y'know, as a very knowledgeable WCU fan recently said..."Fortunately, along comes Mercer. We might not be able to play poorly enough to lose to them. I'll take a win & be thankful."


PICKS
The Citadel @ VMI - I think the streak ends as the Keydets get it done 45-44.

ETSU @ Wofford - ETSU's solid D gets to see the option 2 weeks in a row, but Woffy's version is much more complex, diverse, and faster. The YardBarkers bounce back in a big way 49-14

Sanford @ Furman - Wow! This should be an exciting one and FUBeAR will be there, on the field again...for at least part of the game. FUBeAR is 1-0 vs. Sanford & 2-0 while on the sidelines this season; so we're going to give Furman the edge based on that. This is going to be a TRUE TEST for FU's secondary. If they can shut down Sanford's passing game the way that Mercer did, their Offense will carry the day, as I don't think Sanford has fixed the issues they have on D quite yet. Paladins in a close one - 31-28

Western Carolina @ Mercer - Mercer has issues in the OL and in a few spots on D. They also are not able to get the ball to their truly outstanding WR crew quite as ZIPPILY as one would like, but paired with the running game of Mitchell and Devezin (who did OK on the SLOP @ Yale, but prefer a fast track), the Bears are still good enough to put up significant points on WCU's troubled D. No idea of who/which Offense will show up for the Cantamounts....so I'm going with the one that played against Chatt and calling this one for the Bears 56-14.

Bye @ Chattanooga - Coach Arth uses Tiano, Price, and ALL of the Mocs WR's in a power running game with lots of QB Option runs and timely deep shots running 4 verts when Bye stacks the box to stop the POWER RUNNING of Tiano & Price...and they roll up BIG yards/points on BYE...but Chatt's D is out of position and misses assignments way too often...and seem unbelievably fatigued for a Bye game...but the Mocs pull out a win 69-68.

[Reign of Terrier]

1) Furman: has the most innovative offense in the conference and finally hitting on all cylinders. Sucks that they laid an egg against Elon. Furman has consistency problems, don't @ me.
2)ETSU: has a solid defense and an okay offense. Their offense didn't score 20 on a not-great Citadel defense. They will challenge Wofford.
3)Wofford: the more I look at the film, the more it's obvious that the coaches lost this one. It's not like NDSU or the games where we got blown out by App or GSU back in the day, where turnovers made all the difference (though they had some impact). A couple young OLBs bit on fakes they shouldn't have and Furman took advantage of our inability to hide coverages. I think Conklin hasn't integrated as much of the defense he wants because our secondary is the most veteran unit on the field and he doesn't want to change too much and compromise some of their strengths. That, or he was just overall ignorant of/underestimated our weaknesses in the pass game so he didn't sufficiently tweak our game plan. Our offense actually adjusted pretty well in the second half, it was just too little, too late. There were less than 10 plays that changed the course of this one, on both sides of the ball, which is to say I think it would be closer if they played again. And before I get shade for that...Furman fans have said that about every loss they've had in the last 2 years, so it's a permissible defense. There's a lot of evidence to suggest we got overconfident against Furman. I don't see that happening against ETSU.
4) Chattanooga: They will finish with a winning record, and compete for the playoffs
5) Mercer: still has lots in the tank on offense, but their defense is not good
6) Samford: we will see how well they play against actual defenses. Furman will likely shorten the game.
7) citadel: 1-4, 4 losses coming to ranked teams (or teams receiving votes)
8) Western: no defense, and their offense IMO is overrated, especially without Adams. If your offense is one player, even if it's the QB...you don't have a good offense.
9) VMI: they'll get someone. Will it be the citadel this week???

The Citadel
Wofford
Furman
Mercer


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Every Furman fan should be pulling for Wofford this weekend. They need ETSU to take a SoCon loss, but it is all the better if it comes against a team Furman holds the tiebreaker against.

[PaladinFan]

1) Furman: has the most innovative offense in the conference and finally hitting on all cylinders. Sucks that they laid an egg against Elon. Furman has consistency problems, don't @ me.



I don't disagree with this. Furman has had some consistency problems.

I'm still a little up in the air about whether Furman can go back to the well and pound the ball up the middle if it needs to. I think Furman got away from that a bit against Wofford simply because trying to run between the tackles would do little other than play directly into the strength of the Wofford defense. Furman's coaches obviously felt they had some advantages on the edge, and tried to exploit them.

I expect against Samford, who has a lot less intimidating front seven than Wofford, you may see Furman put the ball in between the tackles more. When we can move the ball both north/south and east/west, that's when I think you'll see this offense really take off.

[walliver]

The sun rose in the East today and life is returning to normal.

As for Power Rankings, I am only confident about #9. There are teams with decent records that I expect to falter, and teams with poor starts that will move up.

1) ETSU - leading the conference. I anticipate them to fade down the stretch, but they haven't faded yet.
2) Furman - they played an almost mistake-free game last week. Has their season turned around or was it a flash in the pan? Games against Sammy and Mercer will tell us down the stretch.
3) Samford - two big wins over horrible defensive teams doesn't produce a lot of confidence, but they are winning again.
4) Wofford - outplayed and outcoached in a disappointing effort. I still expect to play in December, but Conchlin and staff need to get to work.
5) Mercer - decent effort on a muddy field.
6) Chattanooga - decent win, but nothing to justify putting them ahead of Mercer (5 and 6 are really a toss-up)
7) The Citadel - not a bad team, but they haven't found a way to win the close ones.
8) WCU - The wheels are falling off the bus
9) VMI - you have to win to move up

This week:
The Citadel at VMI - The Chucktown Pups have struggled and can't win the close ones. The Kangaroos can't keep them close. This is VMI's best chance for a D-1 win, but the Citadel pulls out a 30-27 win.
ETSU at Wofford - The Mountain Pirates have found a way to win all their conference games this year, but Cinderella's coach turns back into a pumpkin with a 31-24 Terrier win
Samford at Furman - a can see the Bama Pups scoring 50 and winning big. I can see the Horsie People scoring 50 and winning big. I can see a blow out either way, but probably not a close game. Sammy wins 35-20.
WCU at Mercer - WCU has long had a bad defense, now the offense is failing. The Peach State cubs win 49-10.

Playoffs: It's too early to do all the math yet, but it's safe to say that VMI, The Citadel, and Western Carolina will be eating turkey at Grandma's on Thanksgiving.

[walliver]

Has anyone seen citdog these days? He apparently fell off the face of the planet after the Wofford game last year.

Citdog takes sabbaticals frequently.

I expect him to reappear later this week. And if the Citadel wins, he'll hang around until Furman week.

[FUGameBreaker]

Looking over the slate of 4 conference games for this Saturday, they are all actually really intriguing games to me

[PaladinFan]

Looking over the slate of 4 conference games for this Saturday, they are all actually really intriguing games to me

All Furman fans are Wofford fans this week. Obviously, Furman would be good with any ETSU loss, but a loss on Saturday would come against a team that could still tie for the conference championship but will not have the tiebreaker against Furman. A loss by ETSU to Wofford at least begins the whispers of the SoCon tiebreaker system.

ETSU feels a lot like Wofford did to me last year - you just sort of wait around for them to lose, which they seem imminently close to doing each week, only to watch them win. I think Wofford is a tough matchup for the Bucs. I anticipate a low scoring affair. Furman showed teams how to attack Wofford's defense, and I expect the Terriers to make adjustments. I think it relevant that the Bucs just saw an option team.

I'm not picking VMI until they show me they can keep people from scoring touchdowns. The offense is impressive (or at least more impressive than expected), but you cannot surrender 50+ ppg and expect to beat anyone in this league.

Big game for Mercer as well. With Wofford, ETSU, UTC, and Furman still to come, the Bears, who are in the hunt, cannot withstand a loss at home to Western. It's hard to envision Mercer making it through that foursome without a loss.

Also a big game for Bobby Lamb, I think, who is teetering on another .500 season. Mercer has finished with 5 or 6 wins every season they've been in the SoCon. If it happened again, Lamb would have won 5 or 6 games in 8 of his last 10 seasons as a SoCon head coach (going back to 2006 at Furman).

[FUBeAR]

Looking over the slate of 4 conference games for this Saturday, they are all actually really intriguing games to me
Absolutely - no question about Woffy/ETSU with huge SoCon & Playoff implications. Almost as much with FU/Sanford, and the military thing always makes the VMI/CIT matchup interesting, plus I think (and I think VMI AND CIT thinks) that VMI just might be able to ‘get’ them this year.

WCU/Mercer MAY have less SoCon/Playoff implications on the surface, but with Mercer in full control of their own destiny & WCU still “in the hunt,” this one also merits watching.

I think another very interesting aspect of this game is the Tyrie Adams ‘situation.’ Will he play? Should he? Just how bad is his injury? He seems to be moving OK, but he is wearing a big flak jacket and his previously AMAZING stats have fallen into a deep pit. Since he was injured in the Furman game, here’s what he’s done vs. Sanford & Chatt...both games that he started...

9 for 17 (9 for 16 officially - a penalty erased an incompletion) for 102 yards with 1 INT (almost a pick 6)
-28 yards rushing on 11 carries with 3 (or 4 - maybe another one based on Play-by-Play...not sure) Fumbles (3 lost)
74 net yards on 28 ‘touches’ with 4 turnovers - 2.6 yds/‘touch’ and 1 turnover for every 7 touches

So...after Furman battered him relentlessly 3 weeks ago, WCU’s QB, Tyrie Adams, per game started average stats look like this...
Passing: 4.5 for 8.5 for 51 yds with 0.5 INT’s
Rushing: 5.5 carries for -14 yds 1.5 fumbles
Total: 14 ‘touches’ for 37 yards & 2 turnovers

Will he return to form? Will he sit out and heal up? Will he continue with this very-un-Adams-like level of production?

Saturday is going to be VERY interesting!!!

[FUGameBreaker]

Absolutely - no question about Woffy/ETSU with huge SoCon & Playoff implications. Almost as much with FU/Sanford, and the military thing always makes the VMI/CIT matchup interesting, plus I think (and I think VMI AND CIT thinks) that VMI just might be able to ‘get’ them this year.

WCU/Mercer MAY have less SoCon/Playoff implications on the surface, but with Mercer in full control of their own destiny & WCU still “in the hunt,” this one also merits watching.

I think another very interesting aspect of this game is the Tyrie Adams ‘situation.’ Will he play? Should he? Just how bad is his injury? He seems to be moving OK, but he is wearing a big flak jacket and his previously AMAZING stats have fallen into a deep pit. Since he was injured in the Furman game, here’s what he’s done vs. Sanford & Chatt...both games that he started...

9 for 17 (9 for 16 officially - a penalty erased an incompletion) for 102 yards with 1 INT (almost a pick 6)
-28 yards rushing on 11 carries with 3 (or 4 - maybe another one based on Play-by-Play...not sure) Fumbles (3 lost)
74 net yards on 28 ‘touches’ with 4 turnovers - 2.6 yds/‘touch’ and 1 turnover for every 7 touches

So...after Furman battered him relentlessly 3 weeks ago, WCU’s QB, Tyrie Adams, per game started average stats look like this...
Passing: 4.5 for 8.5 for 51 yds with 0.5 INT’s
Rushing: 5.5 carries for -14 yds 1.5 fumbles
Total: 14 ‘touches’ for 37 yards & 2 turnovers

Will he return to form? Will he sit out and heal up? Will he continue with this very-un-Adams-like level of production?

Saturday is going to be VERY interesting!!!


Indeed xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

Saw this in the game notes, but in consecutive weeks Furman plays the FCS’ top rushing offense and then the top passing offense.

[FUGameBreaker]

Saw this in the game notes, but in consecutive weeks Furman plays the FCS’ top rushing offense and then the top passing offense.


Also to note from notes on Paladins depth, looks like Dins are full strength so no injuries I know of vs. Wofford, and we even get CB Weems back which could be big against samford as he is one of our better corners that has been out since early in the Elon game
http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/2018_Furman_Game_Notes_-_Stats.pdf

[FUGameBreaker]

Where are the Samford fans this week?

[PaladinFan]

Also to note from notes on Paladins depth, looks like Dins are full strength so no injuries I know of vs. Wofford, and we even get CB Weems back which could be big against samford as he is one of our better corners that has been out since early in the Elon game
http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/2018_Furman_Game_Notes_-_Stats.pdf

I don't read too much into the depth chart. Amir Trapp was listed as a starter against Wofford and never played.

- - - Updated - - -


Where are the Samford fans this week?

As best I can tell, lurking on this board and our board and then running back to their on forum to talk about how mean and arrogant Furman fans are.

[SU DOG]

That's pretty much it PF, but all in fun. I think most of us are in a wait-and-see mode. How can we know anything the way our team has been? IF we play at our best, I think we win, but if not then we could get embarrassed. As of right now just from my personal eye test, and ignoring past results, I really think this could be a game between the two best teams in the conference. Of course others have plenty of logic to dispute that claim. IMO, the key will be our defense. Secondary injuries and losing players like Shaheed Salmon from last year has hampered us, but some strides have been made recently with young players starting to step up. The prolific Paladin offense will be a tough test. A DC has to prepare for power running, options, and passing, as Furman is good at all 3 phases. On the other hand, much is said, and rightfully so about Hodges, but his receivers, as a group are IMO, the most athletic and best in FCS.

This game is some more interesting match-up.

[PaladinFan]

That's pretty much it PF, but all in fun. I think most of us are in a wait-and-see mode. How can we know anything the way our team has been? IF we play at our best, I think we win, but if not then we could get embarrassed. As of right now just from my personal eye test, and ignoring past results, I really think this could be a game between the two best teams in the conference. Of course others have plenty of logic to dispute that claim. IMO, the key will be our defense. Secondary injuries and losing players like Shaheed Salmon from last year has hampered us, but some strides have been made recently with young players starting to step up. The prolific Paladin offense will be a tough test. A DC has to prepare for power running, options, and passing, as Furman is good at all 3 phases. On the other hand, much is said, and rightfully so about Hodges, but his receivers, as a group are IMO, the most athletic and best in FCS.

This game is some more interesting match-up.

Both teams have everything to play for and, in all honesty, their seasons may be on the line in this one. A loss here would spell doom for Samford. A loss for Furman may not be as crippling, but probably ends their postseason hopes as well.

I am not sure "prolific" describes the Furman offense, but they have certainly adjusted to their slightly new identity the last few weeks. The effort against Wofford isn't everything, but it isn't nothing either. The last two seasons Wofford has allowed 30 points on defense twice - to South Carolina and North Dakota State. So, Furman was able to put a lot of points up against what is generally a really strong defense.

That, of course, doesn't mean much to Samford. The Paladin offense will still need to bring it against an inspired Bulldog team that likely feels a renewed vigor after their last few weeks.

I think the game will come down to which defense makes more plays. I do not expect Samford to have one of its 600+ yard outbursts. In fact, I expect Furman is going to try to slow the game down a bit and keep Hodges on the bench.

Defensively, Samford is going to have to study that Wofford tape and figure out how to cover Furman's edge game. Furman has a lot of elements of both the option and spread pass that you have to be prepared for both. I don't think the Dogs are as stout inside as they were last season, so I would expect a good bit more of the power run than you saw against Wofford.

Furman is going to have to figure out a way to keep pressure on Hodges. They've been pretty good this season about applying pressure to QBs, but have struggled some with mixups in coverage. It goes without saying that if Furman is having coverage issues, Hodges is going to tear them apart.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Furman will run the ball more and more successfully against Samford than they did against Wofford or ETSU. What's great about the Furman offense is its flexibility and diversity. They have the capability to do anything they need to do right now on offense, and really no team in the conference can say that.

I have 0 faith in Samford's defense to stop it. Furman is averaging about 35 points per game in Socon competition, which is impressive considering they've played the two best defenses. They can beat you with big plays like they did against Western Carolina, or drive the field and convert 3rd and mediums like they did against Wofford.

The real question is whether or not Furman's defense can stop Hodges and company. They will have a harder time. Furman's defense is not as good as Chattanooga or Kennesaw State when it comes to stopping the pass. It's probably comparable to Mercer's. If both teams get more than 10 possessions, like what Samford wants, Samford's chances of winning go up. Samford's offense isn't as consistent as the last couple weeks show, as they've put the points they have on the board in games with like 18+ possessions. Put another way, if you have the ball 18 possessions, you only need to score 1/2 the time to score 60ish points.

I think Furman scores 40, perhaps even well over 40, pending on the pace of the game. I just don't see Samford stopping the run game and I don't think Furman will burn clock like they did against Wofford simply because Samford can't do that as well. In a weird way, Samford's defensive weaknesses could turn into an offensive strength, giving the offense more opportunities to score by volume of possessions and giving Samford's defense more opportunities to force turnovers out of raw probability.

If Roberts continues to play at the level he did against Wofford, there's no doubt in my mind he'll be the Socon player of the year. But I would be cautious to jump on the Paladin bandwagon (as I seem to be doing). The more I think about it, and again I don't want to take away from Furman's win against Wofford, the more it just seems to me that Furman's success against Wofford had a lot to do with Wofford's lack of preparation/execution. The reason being, Furman played at a high level by their own standards, Roberts completed passes at a better rate than he has all season, Furman converted more 3rd downs %-wise than Wofford has let up all season. That's to say that everything went flawless for Furman to a degree that was so out of the blue on both Wofford's defense and Furman's offense that I think it's unlikely that Wofford saw Furman's gameplan coming (Conklin's post-game comment suggest as much as well)

You can disagree with me on that, but you have to admit it's possible. And if that's what happened, Furman's offensive success against Wofford may not translate to the rest of their conference games. And again, I'm not taking away from Furman's performance against Wofford, but throwing caution on the Furman bandwagon (that I have myself jumped on) because the "Wofford laid a huge egg" hypothesis is plausible (and troubling if you're Wofford). We'll know more as Furman plays other conference opponents of varying quality (VMI, Samford, Chattanooga).

[FUGameBreaker]

I think Furman will run the ball more and more successfully against Samford than they did against Wofford or ETSU. What's great about the Furman offense is its flexibility and diversity. They have the capability to do anything they need to do right now on offense, and really no team in the conference can say that.

I have 0 faith in Samford's defense to stop it. Furman is averaging about 35 points per game in Socon competition, which is impressive considering they've played the two best defenses. They can beat you with big plays like they did against Western Carolina, or drive the field and convert 3rd and mediums like they did against Wofford.

The real question is whether or not Furman's defense can stop Hodges and company. They will have a harder time. Furman's defense is not as good as Chattanooga or Kennesaw State when it comes to stopping the pass. It's probably comparable to Mercer's. If both teams get more than 10 possessions, like what Samford wants, Samford's chances of winning go up. Samford's offense isn't as consistent as the last couple weeks show, as they've put the points they have on the board in games with like 18+ possessions. Put another way, if you have the ball 18 possessions, you only need to score 1/2 the time to score 60ish points.

I think Furman scores 40, perhaps even well over 40, pending on the pace of the game. I just don't see Samford stopping the run game and I don't think Furman will burn clock like they did against Wofford simply because Samford can't do that as well. In a weird way, Samford's defensive weaknesses could turn into an offensive strength, giving the offense more opportunities to score by volume of possessions and giving Samford's defense more opportunities to force turnovers out of raw probability.

If Roberts continues to play at the level he did against Wofford, there's no doubt in my mind he'll be the Socon player of the year. But I would be cautious to jump on the Paladin bandwagon (as I seem to be doing). The more I think about it, and again I don't want to take away from Furman's win against Wofford, the more it just seems to me that Furman's success against Wofford had a lot to do with Wofford's lack of preparation/execution. The reason being, Furman played at a high level by their own standards, Roberts completed passes at a better rate than he has all season, Furman converted more 3rd downs %-wise than Wofford has let up all season. That's to say that everything went flawless for Furman to a degree that was so out of the blue on both Wofford's defense and Furman's offense that I think it's unlikely that Wofford saw Furman's gameplan coming (Conklin's post-game comment suggest as much as well)

You can disagree with me on that, but you have to admit it's possible. And if that's what happened, Furman's offensive success against Wofford may not translate to the rest of their conference games. And again, I'm not taking away from Furman's performance against Wofford, but throwing caution on the Furman bandwagon (that I have myself jumped on) because the "Wofford laid a huge egg" hypothesis is plausible (and troubling if you're Wofford). We'll know more as Furman plays other conference opponents of varying quality (VMI, Samford, Chattanooga).

You're last paragraph sounds like something you would have said all during the course of last season as we ripped of 7 straight wins, so maybe just the fact that we are forcing you to question Furman is a good thing xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

I think it's a little of both.

While I do think you saw the experience gap between the coaches, I don't know if it can all be chalked up to adjustments. Furman took Wofford's best player (Brown) and neutralized his effectiveness by simply not running at him. They then took what appeared to be a massive advantage on the edge, and simply outran the Terrier defense.

I could buy the "adjustments" argument if Furman had not done virtually the same thing to Western Carolina. I don't think what Furman did that was surprising. I think what was surprising was how effective it was. Wofford's linebackers simply couldn't cover Furman's running backs and TEs. Western's couldn't either. I suspect Samford will have a hard time as well.

As a DC, I'm not sure how you combat it. My gut says that against a team that throws it to backs and TEs 30%+ of the time, you have to get more speed on the field. Of course, when you start substituting DBs for linebackers, you open yourself up to the power run game. Because Furman can operate out of a bunch of different looks without substituting personnel, defenses will have a hard time matching up.

[Reign of Terrier]

You're last paragraph sounds like something you would have said all during the course of last season as we ripped of 7 straight wins, so maybe just the fact that we are forcing you to question Furman is a good thing xthumbsupx

oh please, Furman fans are the worst on here at excusing away losses and poor performances and overhyping good ones. Wofford's weaknesses are pretty obvious and not hard to own up to (pass defense at medium range) whereas Furman's are equally obvious (defense relies heavily on the offense to burn clock and force opponents into catch up mode) but never get owned up to. Seeing as AGS is nowadays a forum where the socon fans that post are predominately Furman fans (there's only 1-2 fans from each team that post, but like 4+ for Furman), you're confusing any pushback at all with stubborn pushback.

I stand by my criticism of Furman last year because it proved accurate. I predicted you would struggle against teams that could both move the ball decent and play defense, and sure enough that happened against Samford and Wofford, which held you to season lows on offense. Heck, the criticism appears to be just as valid this year with the Elon game. If Wofford makes some offensive adjustments in the first half and doesn't turn the ball over, it's a different game in the second half, regardless of how the defense plays. It's a game of inches. Luckily for the dins, they don't have much of anyone left on their schedule that can play good defense, other than Chattanooga (but we've already been told that Chattanooga sucks in spite of probably finishing no worse than 6-5 or 7-4). What should make Furman fans a little uneasy is the fact that *everyone* is better on offense this year, especially the teams remaining on their schedule (VMI, Chatt, Citadel, Mercer) with the exception maybe being Samford. I forsee Furman winning a few games with an over/under of 60-70.

Some of y'all Furman fans are annoying because when your team messes up, it's blamed on youth, but when you do well, it's because your youthful team is (obviously) just better. Put another way, you sandbag when you lose ("we're a year away") but when you win, it's because (of course) you're the class of the Socon (why else?). It's a constantly moving goal post that demands the rest of us bowing to your greatness than instead relying on a more likely explanation: your "young" team (which probably has more starts and players with PT than most of the conference) has consistency problems on defense that your offense can't always out-perform. When it does--it's beautiful, but when it doesn't--BLAME IT ON THE YOUTHS. Both the defensive performance and the fan reaction is a pattern obvious to everyone who doesn't wear purple.

[FUGameBreaker]

oh please, Furman fans are the worst on here at excusing away losses and poor performances and overhyping good ones. Wofford's weaknesses are pretty obvious and not hard to own up to (pass defense at medium range) whereas Furman's are equally obvious (defense relies heavily on the offense to burn clock and force opponents into catch up mode) but never get owned up to. Seeing as AGS is nowadays a forum where the socon fans that post are predominately Furman fans (there's only 1-2 fans from each team that post, but like 4+ for Furman), you're confusing any pushback at all with stubborn pushback.

I stand by my criticism of Furman last year because it proved accurate. I predicted you would struggle against teams that could both move the ball decent and play defense, and sure enough that happened against Samford and Wofford, which held you to season lows on offense. Heck, the criticism appears to be just as valid this year with the Elon game. If Wofford makes some offensive adjustments in the first half and doesn't turn the ball over, it's a different game in the second half, regardless of how the defense plays. It's a game of inches. Luckily for the dins, they don't have much of anyone left on their schedule that can play good defense, other than Chattanooga (but we've already been told that Chattanooga sucks in spite of probably finishing no worse than 6-5 or 7-4).

Some of y'all Furman fans are annoying because when your team messes up, it's blamed on youth, but when you do well, it's because your youthful team is (obviously) just better. Put another way, you sandbag when you lose ("we're a year away") but when you win, it's because (of course) you're the class of the Socon (why else?). It's a constantly moving goal post that demands the rest of us bowing to your greatness than instead relying on a more likely explanation: your "young" team (which probably has more starts and players with PT than most of the conference) has consistency problems on defense that your offense can't always out-perform. When it does--it's beautiful, but when it doesn't--BLAME IT ON THE YOUTHS. Both the defensive performance and the fan reaction is a pattern obvious to everyone who doesn't wear purple.


I am not confusing anything

A) Not having Harris Roberts was huge for us (or against us if you will)

B) Its true that last year during our 7 game win streak you come out after practically every win stating the same things you just stated this week about the Furman team, its not a big deal just happens to be what you do

C) I am not saying we are going to win 7 in a row again, but I do think we have the ability to do so and win the SoCon now with Roberts

[PaladinFan]

oh please, Furman fans are the worst on here at excusing away losses and poor performances and overhyping good ones. Wofford's weaknesses are pretty obvious and not hard to own up to (pass defense at medium range) whereas Furman's are equally obvious (defense relies heavily on the offense to burn clock and force opponents into catch up mode) but never get owned up to. Seeing as AGS is nowadays a forum where the socon fans that post are predominately Furman fans (there's only 1-2 fans from each team that post, but like 4+ for Furman), you're confusing any pushback at all with stubborn pushback.

I have no idea how we became the plurality of SoCon fans on AGS. My thought is that there's a combination of actually being excited about the program and two bye weeks in close proximity, during which you will talk about anything football related.


I stand by my criticism of Furman last year because it proved accurate. I predicted you would struggle against teams that could both move the ball decent and play defense, and sure enough that happened against Samford and Wofford, which held you to season lows on offense. Heck, the criticism appears to be just as valid this year with the Elon game. If Wofford makes some offensive adjustments in the first half and doesn't turn the ball over, it's a different game in the second half, regardless of how the defense plays. It's a game of inches. Luckily for the dins, they don't have much of anyone left on their schedule that can play good defense, other than Chattanooga (but we've already been told that Chattanooga sucks in spite of probably finishing no worse than 6-5 or 7-4). What should make Furman fans a little uneasy is the fact that *everyone* is better on offense this year, especially the teams remaining on their schedule (VMI, Chatt, Citadel, Mercer) with the exception maybe being Samford. I forsee Furman winning a few games with an over/under of 60-70.

I don't think it was terribly hard to figure out how to beat Furman's team last year. Everyone that beat Furman had the same thing in common - sound interior defensive line play. Last year's offense ran through the fullbacks, and Furman could physically throw around less talented defenses. When the defenses got more sturdy, our offense had to go outside where there just wasn't as much depth.

I think the reason the season ended up like it did was because Furman played the best defenses at the beginning (Wofford, Elon, NC State) and end (Samford, Wofford, Elon) of the season. So, in between we went through teams like crap through a goose.


Some of y'all Furman fans are annoying because when your team messes up, it's blamed on youth, but when you do well, it's because your youthful team is (obviously) just better. Put another way, you sandbag when you lose ("we're a year away") but when you win, it's because (of course) you're the class of the Socon (why else?). It's a constantly moving goal post that demands the rest of us bowing to your greatness than instead relying on a more likely explanation: your "young" team (which probably has more starts and players with PT than most of the conference) has consistency problems on defense that your offense can't always out-perform. When it does--it's beautiful, but when it doesn't--BLAME IT ON THE YOUTHS. Both the defensive performance and the fan reaction is a pattern obvious to everyone who doesn't wear purple.

My youth argument, I think, is well-founded. Furman is very young on offense. There are two starting seniors, one of whom has barely ever played meaningful football (Roberts). The offensive line is incredibly young. Furman's most veteran offensive linemen have something like 15 starts, whereas many teams have guys with 30+. Again, not everything, but also not nothing.

Another point, Furman lost to ETSU in large part because a true freshman kick returner took a knee instead of signaling for a fair catch interpreting a new rule. Could a senior have made the same mistake? Probably. Is it a "rookie mistake?" That too. You accept that young players are going to make mistakes. Bell leads the SoCon right now in kick returns and may one day rewrite the record books back there. Who knows?

There's no question we got our butts beat by Elon. Those two teams played twice last year to standstills. Did Furman get 40 points worse than Elon over the offseason? Probably not. Could it have had something to do with playing a true freshman QB and an offensive line with guys still being tried out at different positions? Probably.

I said this about Wofford over the offseason, but I think the Terriers will have their reckoning with attrition/graduation. I see 15 juniors and seniors on Wofford's defensive two deep. I promise I won't give you a hard time when Furman's juniors and seniors are whalloping Wofford's freshmen and sophomores in two years xdrunkyx

[Reign of Terrier]

I have no idea how we became the plurality of SoCon fans on AGS. My thought is that there's a combination of actually being excited about the program and two bye weeks in close proximity, during which you will talk about anything football related.



I don't think it was terribly hard to figure out how to beat Furman's team last year. Everyone that beat Furman had the same thing in common - sound interior defensive line play. Last year's offense ran through the fullbacks, and Furman could physically throw around less talented defenses. When the defenses got more sturdy, our offense had to go outside where there just wasn't as much depth.

I think the reason the season ended up like it did was because Furman played the best defenses at the beginning (Wofford, Elon, NC State) and end (Samford, Wofford, Elon) of the season. So, in between we went through teams like crap through a goose.



My youth argument, I think, is well-founded. Furman is very young on offense. There are two starting seniors, one of whom has barely ever played meaningful football (Roberts). The offensive line is incredibly young. Furman's most veteran offensive linemen have something like 15 starts, whereas many teams have guys with 30+. Again, not everything, but also not nothing.

Another point, Furman lost to ETSU in large part because a true freshman kick returner took a knee instead of signaling for a fair catch interpreting a new rule. Could a senior have made the same mistake? Probably. Is it a "rookie mistake?" That too. You accept that young players are going to make mistakes. Bell leads the SoCon right now in kick returns and may one day rewrite the record books back there. Who knows?

There's no question we got our butts beat by Elon. Those two teams played twice last year to standstills. Did Furman get 40 points worse than Elon over the offseason? Probably not. Could it have had something to do with playing a true freshman QB and an offensive line with guys still being tried out at different positions? Probably.

I said this about Wofford over the offseason, but I think the Terriers will have their reckoning with attrition/graduation. I see 15 juniors and seniors on Wofford's defensive two deep. I promise I won't give you a hard time when Furman's juniors and seniors are whalloping Wofford's freshmen and sophomores in two years xdrunkyxMeh, you're already seeing the defensive growing pains. Siefkis was interviewed for Conklin's radio show earlier this week and he said we aimed to rotate 25-28 players on defense this year (and every year). That's a big change from last year and under Ayers, where we probably rotated no more than 19 or so. The only defensive unit I remember seeing regular substitutions for under Ayers was DL and maybe 1-2 or the secondary.

Meanwhile on offense, we only have 2 seniors on the two deep. Depth isn't a problem for us this year, and it probably won't be next year either.

The problem is youth at linebacker, particularly outside linebacker, the position that probably rotates the most and has the most increased obligations under Conklin's scheme. Not only are we bringing in more young players, but they have to play more and maybe do more than previous outside linebackers. We saw the result against Furman. I'm pretty sure all but one of them are freshmen/sophomores.

Bottom line: at some point you develop depth, have a predictable product, and stop blaming mistakes on youth and just factor in certain weaknesses to your expectations. Every defense has a weakness. At this point, it's hard to tell if Wofford's defense is the same as last year or if it's youth at linebacker. I think it's a little both.

In my opinion, I think Furman's defense is experienced enough that we're at the depth stage. At the very least, I think they'll plateau by the end of this year (not to say that plateau is good, bad, or medicore)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[gofurman]

That's pretty much it PF, but all in fun. I think most of us are in a wait-and-see mode. How can we know anything the way our team has been? IF we play at our best, I think we win, but if not then we could get embarrassed. As of right now just from my personal eye test, and ignoring past results, I really think this could be a game between the two best teams in the conference. Of course others have plenty of logic to dispute that claim. IMO, the key will be our defense. Secondary injuries and losing players like Shaheed Salmon from last year has hampered us, but some strides have been made recently with young players starting to step up. The prolific Paladin offense will be a tough test. A DC has to prepare for power running, options, and passing, as Furman is good at all 3 phases. On the other hand, much is said, and rightfully so about Hodges, but his receivers, as a group are IMO, the most athletic and best in FCS.

This game is some more interesting match-up.

SU DOG. You know your team. Some questions.

What position was Salmon ? Lb?

Who is hurt in the secondary? Were they starters?

how many did you graduate off last years strong defense? (That was an impressive D!)

[SU DOG]

SU DOG. You know your team. Some questions.

What position was Salmon ? Lb?

Who is hurt in the secondary? Were they starters?

how many did you graduate off last years strong defense? (That was an impressive D!)

Off the top of my head: Lost from last year were LBs Shaheed Salmon(a beast) and Deion Pierre(really good), both starters who combined for 19 total tackles against Furman. CB Omari Williams (all conference), FS Carter McManes, DE Terrell Woods, and big DT Ke'Tyrus Marks. That's 6 starters, and 6 good players.

This year so far we have lost starter FS Koi Freeman and FS Sam Pettway(position where we now start a former walk-on) and starting LB Aaron Atkinson( a good one). On offense we lost starting center Nate Lee. There are some others, but these are the main cogs that we were counting on. Will any be back? I honestly don't know, but some are gone for this year.

Every team has injuries, so I haven't dwelled on that, but since you asked...

[gofurman]

Off the top of my head: Lost from last year were LBs Shaheed Salmon(a beast) and Deion Pierre(really good), both starters who combined for 19 total tackles against Furman. CB Omari Williams (all conference), FS Carter McManes, DE Terrell Woods, and big DT Ke'Tyrus Marks. That's 6 starters, and 6 good players.

This year so far we have lost starter FS Koi Freeman and FS Sam Pettway(position where we now start a former walk-on) and starting LB Aaron Atkinson( a good one). On offense we lost starting center Nate Lee. There are some others, but these are the main cogs that we were counting on. Will any be back? I honestly don't know, but some are gone for this year.

Every team has injuries, so I haven't dwelled on that, but since you asked...

SU DOG. Thanks ! I asked and appreciate the answer ! So am I to understand you lost BOTH your Free Safeties in Freeman and Pettway - were they your starter and the backup? Thus the walk-on is playing - a guy who wasn’t on the two deep and is a walk-on?

[SU DOG]

Former all state Koi Freeman was definitely our starter. Pettway, a 5th year Sr. had experience in playing that position, but was hurt in the opening game, and hasn't returned. Since FSU I believe we have had 3 different starters at FS. I just looked at game notes, and the player who I think is a former walk-on is listed as backing up himself at FS.xeyebrowx I also see where we will start a true Fr. at SS. Definitely an injury depleted secondary, but next man up.

[kdinva]

The Citadel 33 @ VMI 38
ETSU 20 @ Wofford 28
Samford 38 @ Furman 30
Western Carolina 21 @ Mercer 37

[gofurman]

Former all state Koi Freeman was definitely our starter. Pettway, a 5th year Sr. had experience in playing that position, but was hurt in the opening game, and hasn't returned. Since FSU I believe we have had 3 different starters at FS. I just looked at game notes, and the player who I think is a former walk-on is listed as backing up himself at FS.xeyebrowx I also see where we will start a true Fr. at SS. Definitely an injury depleted secondary, but next man up.

SU DOG. Thanks. Yes I saw the 'guy backing up himself' too. Never seen that

[PaladinFan]

.

Bottom line: at some point you develop depth, have a predictable product, and stop blaming mistakes on youth and just factor in certain weaknesses to your expectations. Every defense has a weakness. At this point, it's hard to tell if Wofford's defense is the same as last year or if it's youth at linebacker. I think it's a little both.

In my opinion, I think Furman's defense is experienced enough that we're at the depth stage. At the very least, I think they'll plateau by the end of this year (not to say that plateau is good, bad, or medicore)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Some of Furman’s defensive lapses are hard to explain. The most logical explanation I can give is inexperience at inside linebacker, which is the “quarterback of the defense.” Elijah McKoy is a good player, but he is a true sophomore and was a high school defensive back and never played linebacker before last season. Furman has only one player on the two deep at ILB that was actually recruited to play that position, and he’s a true freshman.

So, it’s not like Furman even has veteran guys and chooses to play less experienced guys. They only have less experienced guys.

That position used to be a strength in Furman recruiting, but for a while we just struggled to develop depth there. We’ve had a lot of attrition at that position, and would often end up moving good linebackers to the defensive line to fill depth there. That has obviously been a strong focal point for the coaching staff in recruiting.

I highlight inside linebackers because I don’t see Furman getting just run over defensively. A lot of the passing yards appear to be confusions in coverage - TEs running down the field uncovered, that sort of thing. I think that can get fixed. Furman’s effort on Saturday against Wofford is a lot closer to what I expected this season than what I’ve seen.

[PaladinNation]

One person that would have helped with Furman's linebacker situation is Tyler Voyles. Tyler is IMO a hybrid MLB/OLB I think he's better at rushing and defending the run than dropping into coverage… but, he would have helped a lot this season. I'm hoping he's getting an NCAA extension to play next season.

I want to address YT's comments. I do wear purple-colored glasses, I'm sorry and I'm not sorry, I'm a fan just like you. Do I think the Dins are ready for the national stage? No, we are a shell of what Hendrix is trying to build. Maybe the same goes for Conklin's vision for the Terriers. I believe he is a solid young coach and I think and hope he'll be successful.

Wofford has been kicking our tails for good while, and Wofford has been winning in recruiting. In years past we wouldn't have seen Jalen Miller from Byrnes HS on the sidelines during the pre-game in his Paladin wear committed to Furman. Miller would be in black and gold. We need a few more Miller's before we're close to the impressive depth you guys have.

I really do hope in the future we see the best of both programs, it will be good for the state, and good for the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

One person that would have helped with Furman's linebacker situation is Tyler Voyles. Tyler is IMO a hybrid MLB/OLB I think he's better at rushing and defending the run than dropping into coverage… but, he would have helped a lot this season. I'm hoping he's getting an NCAA extension to play next season.

I want to address YT's comments. I do wear purple-colored glasses, I'm sorry and I'm not sorry, I'm a fan just like you. Do I think the Dins are ready for the national stage? No, we are a shell of what Hendrix is trying to build. Maybe the same goes for Conklin's vision for the Terriers. I believe he is a solid young coach and I think and hope he'll be successful.

Wofford has been kicking our tails for good while, and Wofford has been winning in recruiting. In years past we wouldn't have seen Jalen Miller from Byrnes HS on the sidelines during the pre-game in his Paladin wear committed to Furman. Miller would be in black and gold. We need a few more Miller's before we're close to the impressive depth you guys have.

I really do hope in the future we see the best of both programs, it will be good for the state, and good for the SoCon.

I, for one, certainly do not think we are "national stage" ready. In fact, I think the SoCon is sort of a watered down version of its former glory.

Hendrix had the luxury - a bit like Conklin this year, I think - of inheriting a team with good veteran players in key positions. I think that smoothed the transition some, but it is still a building process.

It just seems that Furman has taken a long time getting back to some semblance of a depth chart. For years it feels like we've had to run freshmen out there every single season in large numbers. I'm really excited about actually watching a season where we may only rely on a couple of freshmen in rotational play and the bulk of the team are juniors and seniors.

[Reign of Terrier]

I, for one, certainly do not think we are "national stage" ready. In fact, I think the SoCon is sort of a watered down version of its former glory.

Hendrix had the luxury - a bit like Conklin this year, I think - of inheriting a team with good veteran players in key positions. I think that smoothed the transition some, but it is still a building process.

It just seems that Furman has taken a long time getting back to some semblance of a depth chart. For years it feels like we've had to run freshmen out there every single season in large numbers. I'm really excited about actually watching a season where we may only rely on a couple of freshmen in rotational play and the bulk of the team are juniors and seniors.One key difference in this narrative is that Hendrix made more radical changes on offense and lost more personnel than Conklin in his first year. The same is probably true of the defense as well, because I don't think Furman played the same zone bind-but-don't-break scheme they have run the last couple years.

Meanwhile, the key difference for Wofford on offense has been the incorporation of the pass game that will continue to evolve slowly but surely. Our completion % is already 10% higher than last year and on pace to surpass the yardage. We have already thrown for more touchdowns and we are recruiting players like Jimmy Weirick who can run and chunk it deep.

Defense is where we are seeing the most changes, and most of the transition has been smooth. Our defense has always been linebacker-centered, but now we are asking linebackers to do more while subbing in specialists for different situations. It used to be that we would see DT Wilson or Mike Niam or Mike McCrimmon or whoever we were playing in the middle take 80%+ of the snaps, but now it deviates, pending on the situation. As I mentioned in other threads, our sack leader doesn't even start, because he's a package guy.

And I think that's why we lost third down in an uncharacteristic way last week. We do have some of the same fundamentally sound players that shut down Furman last year (the two Wilsons, for instance), but they are being used in slightly different, albeit specialized ways. Meanwhile, we have young guys who may not be as fundamentally sound/experienced playing more snaps. For example, #46 for us got burned twice and I had to look up who that was. He's a sophomore, but primarily played on special teams last year, so not crazy experienced.

It makes sense that we forced third downs, and for the most part Furman didn't have any huge plays (though there were some), yet they still converted a lot of the time. We had less consistent guys playing more snaps and coming in during specific situations by design. And that sounds like a coaching mistake, but it was working pretty smoothly for the first few games, and we should have anticipated that Furman was going to attack in different ways than those other opponents.

Some terrier fans hypothesize that we also didn't disguise our coverages well enough, which may be true, but I hope it isn't. Because that means Conklin is either blind to the obviousness or closing the playbook too much for a veteran secondary.

Ultimately I think the Furman loss will make us better because the coaches will now have to drill the exposed weaknesses more in practices, which will make us a better team.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

I agree with those that think Wofford didn't really disguise coverages. Granted, I don't think they intended to.

If you look at Furman highlights, it's pretty clear on every big play that Wofford had clearly committed to zone or man looks. They were not really trying to disguise anything. Maybe next time they'll take a different approach.

[FUGameBreaker]

In the long run, a currently watered down SoCon is not a bad thing. Eventually a couple SoCon programs will rise back to the peak of FCS, just hoping one of those is Furman again

[FUGameBreaker]

Here is an interesting hypothetical I would like to hear everyone's take on.

VMI has lost 23 straight games now, at what point (if at all), if they keep losing do they decide to possibly drop to a lower brand of football? How many more straight losses would it take?

To the rest of the league, if that was to happen who would best be suited to replace them? Kennesaw St. possibly?
Thoughts?

[FUBeAR]

For example, #46 for us got burned twice and I had to look up who that was. He's a sophomore, but primarily played on special teams last year, so not crazy experienced.
C’mon man...you’re supposed to be the RatDog EXPERT around here! #46 has started every game at a OLB for Wofford this year. He’s only a few tackles shy of being the Tackles leader for Woffy & he’s tied for #2 in TFL’s. Do you even watch the games?

Besides, FUBeAR used to date his Aunt and attended the FU @ Woffy playoff game last year with his Uncle.

Do better, YT! xsmiley_wix

[SU DOG]

Here is an interesting hypothetical I would like to hear everyone's take on.

VMI has lost 23 straight games now, at what point (if at all), if they keep losing do they decide to possibly drop to a lower brand of football? How many more straight losses would it take?

To the rest of the league, if that was to happen who would best be suited to replace them? Kennesaw St. possibly?
Thoughts?

Yes, VMI is on an embarrassing losing streak. In spite of this, and the beating that we gave them, don't you see some progress? They have played some very competitive games in the conference this year, and I see no reason to encourage any talk of them dropping out, or conjecture on a replacement at this time.

[Reign of Terrier]

Here is an interesting hypothetical I would like to hear everyone's take on.

VMI has lost 23 straight games now, at what point (if at all), if they keep losing do they decide to possibly drop to a lower brand of football? How many more straight losses would it take?

To the rest of the league, if that was to happen who would best be suited to replace them? Kennesaw St. possibly?
Thoughts?Oh you sweet summer child

VMI hasn't had a team finish above .500 since 1981.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUGameBreaker]

Yes, VMI is on an embarrassing losing streak. In spite of this, and the beating that we gave them, don't you see some progress? They have played some very competitive games in the conference this year, and I see no reason to encourage any talk of them dropping out, or conjecture on a replacement at this time.


Yes they have some closer scores this year, but no actual wins, 23 straight is a lot already and honestly the only reason for them to be in the league right now is because they want to align with Citadel. Beyond that the reality is they are really bad in the 2 major sports football and basketball and I don't really see that ending anytime soon if ever.

[Reign of Terrier]

In the long run, a currently watered down SoCon is not a bad thing. Eventually a couple SoCon programs will rise back to the peak of FCS, just hoping one of those is Furman againUnpopular opinion but the socon isn't watered down. The FCS is just better than it was ~15 years ago.

Put things in perspective: 4 teams made all playoff appearances between 2008-2012, and 3 of them won games, but half of those belong to Georgia Southern. App state only won a single playoff game after Armanti Edwards graduated.

Since 2013, the year GSU, App, and Elon left, 5 teams have made the playoffs, 4 of them winning a game. ETSU could make it 6/5 and Mercer/Western will probably make an appearance in the next 5 years.

The socon lacks a team that could regularly contest NDSU or JMU, but Wofford is more talented than we were in 2012 and an overall better team (check the stats, we probably only beat Lincoln that year without EB) and definitely 2003 when we made the semis.

If you look at Chatt, Citadel, Western Carolina, samford, and maybe even Furman, they're either just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. VMI is no worse than Elon when Elon left.

So the socon lacks a juggernaut that can go the distance like App/GSU could, but we forget the flaws of those teams and how socon championships weren't easy even then. Mercer/ETSU may not be on their level, but they would be in the same position they are now back then.

What's changed is the strength of the MVFC. So many CAA teams and maybe Socon teams would have won more championships in the last decade had it not been for the rise of the Dakotas.

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[FUGameBreaker]

Unpopular opinion but the socon isn't watered down. The FCS is just better than it was ~15 years ago.

Put things in perspective: 4 teams made all playoff appearances between 2008-2012, and 3 of them won games, but half of those belong to Georgia Southern. App state only won a single playoff game after Armanti Edwards graduated.

Since 2013, the year GSU, App, and Elon left, 5 teams have made the playoffs, 4 of them winning a game. ETSU could make it 6/5 and Mercer/Western will probably make an appearance in the next 5 years.

The socon lacks a team that could regularly contest NDSU or JMU, but Wofford is more talented than we were in 2012 and an overall better team (check the stats, we probably only beat Lincoln that year without EB) and definitely 2003 when we made the semis.

If you look at Chatt, Citadel, Western Carolina, samford, and maybe even Furman, they're either just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. VMI is no worse than Elon when Elon left.

So the socon lacks a juggernaut that can go the distance like App/GSU could, but we forget the flaws of those teams and how socon championships weren't easy even then. Mercer/ETSU may not be on their level, but they would be in the same position they are now back then.

What's changed is the strength of the MVFC. So many CAA teams and maybe Socon teams would have won more championships in the last decade had it not been for the rise of the Dakotas.

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The SoCon was the Big 3 GSU, Furman, App St
Yes the league is massively watered down compared to those days, and no the FCS is not any better now than it was then
The SoCon will eventually return though

[FUGameBreaker]

At some point if NDSU keeps on winning they will figure out a way to go FBS

Outside of NDSU I don't see anyone else that will dominate like they have, it will be a much more level playing field nationally once that happens

[PaladinFan]

Yes, VMI is on an embarrassing losing streak. In spite of this, and the beating that we gave them, don't you see some progress? They have played some very competitive games in the conference this year, and I see no reason to encourage any talk of them dropping out, or conjecture on a replacement at this time.

Maybe?

I will admit, they are not as bad as I thought they'd be even in spite of surrendering over 54 points a game. I thought they would be horrific this year, and they've been better than that. Still not winning, but better.

I simply don't see the value added, though. It is easily the longest road trip for most of the conference, they are bad in every major sport, and field few women's sports. There's a reason they left the conference to begin with.

[PaladinFan]

The SoCon was the Big 3 GSU, Furman, App St
Yes the league is massively watered down compared to those days, and no the FCS is not any better now than it was then
The SoCon will eventually return though

Complete agreement.

I calculated it once, but with all of the new programs and teams moving up classifications, there are some 800-900 more D1 scholarship football players than there were 15-20 years ago in just Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina. Every team in this league has players that wouldn't have been on a D1 roster in the mid-2000s. Probably a bunch of them. More slots to fill, more competition, more flyers on guys that probably don't make the grade.

There's no way of knowing this, but I think the Furman/GSU/App teams from the early-mid 2000s would beat the brakes off any team in this conference right now and I don't think it'd be close.

[FUBeAR]

Unpopular opinion but the socon isn't watered down. The FCS is just better than it was ~15 years ago.

Put things in perspective: 4 teams made all playoff appearances between 2008-2012, and 3 of them won games, but half of those belong to Georgia Southern. App state only won a single playoff game after Armanti Edwards graduated.

Since 2013, the year GSU, App, and Elon left, 5 teams have made the playoffs, 4 of them winning a game. ETSU could make it 6/5 and Mercer/Western will probably make an appearance in the next 5 years.

The socon lacks a team that could regularly contest NDSU or JMU, but Wofford is more talented than we were in 2012 and an overall better team (check the stats, we probably only beat Lincoln that year without EB) and definitely 2003 when we made the semis.

If you look at Chatt, Citadel, Western Carolina, samford, and maybe even Furman, they're either just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. VMI is no worse than Elon when Elon left.

So the socon lacks a juggernaut that can go the distance like App/GSU could, but we forget the flaws of those teams and how socon championships weren't easy even then. Mercer/ETSU may not be on their level, but they would be in the same position they are now back then.

What's changed is the strength of the MVFC. So many CAA teams and maybe Socon teams would have won more championships in the last decade had it not been for the rise of the Dakotas.

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xbowxxbowxxbowx

[Reign of Terrier]

The SoCon was the Big 3 GSU, Furman, App St
Yes the league is massively watered down compared to those days, and no the FCS is not any better now than it was then
The SoCon will eventually return though


Complete agreement.

I calculated it once, but with all of the new programs and teams moving up classifications, there are some 800-900 more D1 scholarship football players than there were 15-20 years ago in just Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina. Every team in this league has players that wouldn't have been on a D1 roster in the mid-2000s. Probably a bunch of them. More slots to fill, more competition, more flyers on guys that probably don't make the grade.

There's no way of knowing this, but I think the Furman/GSU/App teams from the early-mid 2000s would beat the brakes off any team in this conference right now and I don't think it'd be close.

Maybe in absolute terms the teams aren't as good. I'm skeptical, because the 2003 Wofford team went undefeated in the conference. I hear that team didn't even have the full scholarship allotment. We were a nobody program at the time and *even players on those Wofford teams* say we are more talented now, top to bottom, than we were back then. There's a *lot* of revisionist history when it comes to the Socon teams of the 90s-2000s. Before 2005, App State was known for choking in the playoffs like Jacksonville State or San Houston State now. The only time VMI had a .500 record in the last 37 years was (looks at sheet) 2002, in their last year in the socon. If you pull up some of the box scores of individual games, you'll find lots of little tidbits like that. Little old Wofford had a better win percentage in Paulson stadium than most teams at one point. The Wofford senior class with the most wins all time wasn't Eric Breitenstein's (2012) or Brandon Goodson's (2017) or Ben Widmyer's(2008). It was the 2005 class that played against these supposed juggernauts.

The Socon was never more than a 2-3 bid league on any given year, partially because of scheduling. Half of the conference was good (Marshall, Furman, GSU, App State), but half of it was not (Citadel, Chattanooga, Western Carolina, ETSU, VMI).

Today, in relative terms, the league is more balanced than it's ever been. An expanded playoff field has a lot to do with the diversity of teams that get in, but also because the only program that seems satisfied with mediocrity is VMI. Put another way, if it was all because of expanded fields, we woudn't see as many teams *winning* in the playoffs. The average socon team is better than it was 10 years ago, but the best teams aren't a clear cut above, like with GSU and App State. Heck, I remember doing power rankings back then and the consensus was that there were 3 3-team tiers consistently. Now, there's usually a top team(kinda), a mass of humanity in the middle, and VMI.

And it's hard to dispute that the MVFC is, in relative terms, much better than it was 10 years ago. There's more vibrant recruiting grounds in that area, especially now with the Dakotas being D1. The CAA, OVC, Big South, and Southland are relatively the same. Though recruiting may be a bit harder, many teams such as Wofford used to get a huge chunk of their players from the Ohios. We recruit more from the South now, for what that's worth.

[FUGameBreaker]

From 1983-2007 (25 years) the SoCon was represented in the National Title game 16 of those years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship

In the last 10 years the SoCon has made the title game 0 times, that's a huge drop-off, probably only a couple semifinal appearances in the last 10 years as well

[Reign of Terrier]

From 1983-2007 (25 years) the SoCon was represented in the National Title game 16 of those years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship

In the last 10 years the SoCon has made the title game 0 times, that's a huge drop-off, probably only a couple semifinal appearances in the last 10 years as well

Worth mentioning that Georgia Southern wasn't in the socon until 1993

[FUGameBreaker]

I see 3 things putting the SoCon back in line with the rest of the FCS elite conferences

1 - The continued progression of the league as it currently stands, I feel the SoCon will slowly improve naturally over the next 5 years
2 - If VMI continues to struggle to win ANY games they should leave, then the SoCon should add Kennesaw St.
3 - NDSU finally puts a plan together to move up and out of the FCS ranks into the FBS world where they belong

This will put MVFC, CAA, SoCon, Big Sky on a pretty level field overall

- - - Updated - - -


Worth mentioning that Georgia Southern wasn't in the socon until 1993


Exactly, that would only add to the 16 years
That would have made it 19 out of 25 years lol

The SoCon was a beast!

[Reign of Terrier]

I see 3 things putting the SoCon back in line with the rest of the FCS elite conferences

1 - The continued progression of the league as it currently stands, I feel the SoCon will slowly improve naturally over the next 5 years
2 - If VMI continues to struggle to win ANY games they should leave, then the SoCon should add Kennesaw St.
3 - NDSU finally puts a plan together to move up and out of the FCS ranks into the FBS world where they belong

This will put MVFC, CAA, SoCon, Big Sky on a pretty level field overall

- - - Updated - - -




Exactly, that would only add to the 16 years
That would have made it 19 out of 25 years lol

The SoCon was a beast!

We can afford to have VMI as a bad team in the conference. Every league has a doormat program (no offense to VMI fans). Right now, the socon is comparable to the Big Sky, as is. The difference between the Socon and the aforementioned leagues is the number of teams. MVFC has 10 teams, CAA has 12, the Big Sky 13, the Socon has 9. Unlike those leagues, everyone in the Socon has to play every team and because it's a balanced team, we beat up on each other more.

If we had 12 teams and played an incomplete schedule, we'd be much better off as a conference, have more teams in the playoffs and have better teams overall. If I were dictator, I'd add Kennesaw, Jacksonville State and one of Campbell/North Alabama/Richmond/Elon/William&mary (yes I know). Let's be real, if Kennesaw and Jacksonville State don't have ambitions to go FBS, moving to the Socon would be the best option, and the Socon as a football conference could "work" with 2 geographic centers (Alabama/Tennessee/Georgia and The Carolinas+Virginia/Georgia). But because of political reasons and the ambitions of Jacksonville State/Kennesaw/The Big South, it probably won't happen.

If you look at the FCS as 5 separate regions (West: Big Sky; Texas: Southland; Southeast: Southern; Midwest: MVFC; Northeast: CAA), the history of the subdivision in terms of the powers of the conference/teams makes much more sense. There's less unity in the South than in years past, and the midwest was pretty underused 10-15 years ago, whereas there's little change in the West/Northeast in that time.

[FUGameBreaker]

We can afford to have VMI as a bad team in the conference. Every league has a doormat program (no offense to VMI fans). Right now, the socon is comparable to the Big Sky, as is. The difference between the Socon and the aforementioned leagues is the number of teams. MVFC has 10 teams, CAA has 12, the Big Sky 13, the Socon has 9. Unlike those leagues, everyone in the Socon has to play every team and because it's a balanced team, we beat up on each other more.

If we had 12 teams and played an incomplete schedule, we'd be much better off as a conference, have more teams in the playoffs and have better teams overall. If I were dictator, I'd add Kennesaw, Jacksonville State and one of Campbell/North Alabama/Richmond/Elon/William&mary (yes I know). Let's be real, if Kennesaw and Jacksonville State don't have ambitions to go FBS, moving to the Socon would be the best option, and the Socon as a football conference could "work" with 2 geographic centers (Alabama/Tennessee/Georgia and The Carolinas+Virginia/Georgia). But because of political reasons and the ambitions of Jacksonville State/Kennesaw/The Big South, it probably won't happen.

If you look at the FCS as 5 separate regions (West: Big Sky; Texas: Southland; Southeast: Southern; Midwest: MVFC; Northeast: CAA), the history of the subdivision in terms of the powers of the conference/teams makes much more sense. There's less unity in the South than in years past, and the midwest was pretty underused 10-15 years ago, whereas there's little change in the West/Northeast in that time.



Count me in as one who would also like to add both Jacksonville St. and Kennesaw St. xthumbsupx

[gofurman]

Complete agreement.

I calculated it once, but with all of the new programs and teams moving up classifications, there are some ***800-900 more D1 scholarship football players than there were 15-20 years ago in just Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina.***. Every team in this league has players that wouldn't have been on a D1 roster in the mid-2000s. Probably a bunch of them. More slots to fill, more competition, more flyers on guys that probably don't make the grade.

There's no way of knowing this, but I think the Furman/GSU/App teams from the early-mid 2000s would beat the brakes off any team in this conference right now and I don't think it'd be close.

EXACTLY. It’s just math. When GSU and Furman were killing there was no D1 Charleston Southern, Wofford , UNC Charlotte, Campbell (did the entire big south even exist as D1???), Mercer(!), Kenessaw State, ... Samford was D2 back In the day I believe. You just can’t keep adding D1 programs without watering down the talent level. I HATE IT. Elon was D2 until 1999. Around same time Wofford became FCS.

-----

Wofford moved up.. D2 (30+ scholarships to 63 now) ... oh yeah, I totally forgot Coastal Carolina had no program at all and is now FUll FBS - so that's the biggest killer of all - 85 scholarships that didn't exist before.. EIGHT FIVE. And with GSU and App State going FBS from FCS (63 to 85 scholarships from FCS to FBS) that's 44 more scholarships. And isn't Georgia State new and in FBS? That's EIGHTY FIVE more scholarships.

On the other hand.. how many new D1 programs are out west or near North Dakota?

As PaladinFan said, - I don't see how we can ever overcome this... It depresses me to be honest. It would be different if every area of the country had the same battle but they don't.. at least I don't think? How many new programs are in Big Sky country?? please enlighten me. maybe there are 20 new programs out there?

I don't mean that snarky. Please let me know how many new programs are out west competing with Eastern Washington and Montana?

[FUGameBreaker]

EXACTLY. It’s just math. When GSU and Furman were killing there was no D1 Charleston Southern, Wofford , UNC Charlotte, Campbell (did the entire big south even exist as D1???), Mercer(!), Kenessaw State, ... Samford was D2 back In the day I believe. You just can’t keep adding D1 programs without watering down the talent level. I HATE IT. Elon was D2 until 1999. Around same time Wofford became FCS.

-----

Wofford moved up.. D2 (30+ scholarships to 63 now) ... oh yeah, I totally forgot Coastal Carolina had no program at all and is now FUll FBS - so that's the biggest killer of all - 85 scholarships that didn't exist before.. EIGHT FIVE. And with GSU and App State going FBS from FCS (63 to 85 scholarships from FCS to FBS) that's 44 more scholarships. And isn't Georgia State new and in FBS? That's EIGHTY FIVE more scholarships.

On the other hand.. how many new D1 programs are out west or near North Dakota?

As PaladinFan said, - I don't see how we can ever overcome this... It depresses me to be honest. It would be different if every area of the country had the same battle but they don't.. at least I don't think? How many new programs are in Big Sky country?? please enlighten me. maybe there are 20 new programs out there?

I don't mean that snarky. Please let me know how many new programs are out west competing with Eastern Washington and Montana?



You guys are absolutely right, more programs in the south have made things tougher, but the major thing is that NDSU belongs in FBS, if that happened there is nobody else that scares me out west, some solid programs but nothing remotely close to the program strength of NDSU.
MVFC is solid indeed, but I am telling you, if you take out NDSU that league is right there with the rest of us most years.

[gofurman]

One person that would have helped with Furman's linebacker situation is Tyler Voyles. Tyler is IMO a hybrid MLB/OLB I think he's better at rushing and defending the run than dropping into coverage… but, he would have helped a lot this season. I'm hoping he's getting an NCAA extension to play next season.

I want to address YT's comments. I do wear purple-colored glasses, I'm sorry and I'm not sorry, I'm a fan just like you. Do I think the Dins are ready for the national stage? No, we are a shell of what Hendrix is trying to build. Maybe the same goes for Conklin's vision for the Terriers. I believe he is a solid young coach and I think and hope he'll be successful.

Wofford has been kicking our tails for good while, and Wofford has been winning in recruiting. In years past we wouldn't have seen Jalen Miller from Byrnes HS on the sidelines during the pre-game in his Paladin wear committed to Furman. Miller would be in black and gold. We need a few more Miller's before we're close to the impressive depth you guys have.

I really do hope in the future we see the best of both programs, it will be good for the state, and good for the SoCon.

Is Voyles hurt? I had forgotten about him. Is he a senior?

[PaladinNation]

Tyler Voyles had knee surgery, I think during the spring. He wasn't in the senior picture group, but he was in the linebacker group photo. He was in his jersey on the sidelines at the Wofford game, so I assume he's planning on playing next season.

I would love to somehow watch the 2004, 2005 Furman teams play one of the Dakota schools of today, I'd include the Eagles and APP in that wishful thinking. Wishful thinking, and maybe inaccurate.

For the SoCon to move up a level to be able to compete at the national stage I still believe it's going to come down to coaching and players. I can only speak about Furman, but the same may be true with Conklin, Arth, Lamb, Speir, Sanders, Thompson, and Hatcher. Hendrix and staff are recruiting their tails off. Furman is building up from the men on the line, as well as a focus on playmakers. Furman just picked up it's fourth lineman commit (3 OL, 1 DL). They have several commits that choose Furman purple over JMU purple - this has to continue if Furman has any hope to compete and win in the post season.

In years past - post 2005 - many of you - fans of another SoCon team, weren't afraid of a specific Furman player. Last season our inside run game was scary but it ran into a wall towards the end of the 2017 season. We have a long way to go in 2018 and we will see if the depth and versatility at tailback will keep being potent.

I'm going to put Furman and Wofford in the same bubble, both schools have to continue to get better players and continue to become more multi-dimensonal to compete against the CAA and MVC in the playoffs.

[PaladinFan]

Tyler Voyles had knee surgery, I think during the spring. He wasn't in the senior picture group, but he was in the linebacker group photo. He was in his jersey on the sidelines at the Wofford game, so I assume he's planning on playing next season.

I would love to somehow watch the 2004, 2005 Furman teams play one of the Dakota schools of today, I'd include the Eagles and APP in that wishful thinking. Wishful thinking, and maybe inaccurate.

For the SoCon to move up a level to be able to compete at the national stage I still believe it's going to come down to coaching and players. I can only speak about Furman, but the same may be true with Conklin, Arth, Lamb, Speir, Sanders, Thompson, and Hatcher. Hendrix and staff are recruiting their tails off. Furman is building up from the men on the line, as well as a focus on playmakers. Furman just picked up it's fourth lineman commit (3 OL, 1 DL). They have several commits that choose Furman purple over JMU purple - this has to continue if Furman has any hope to compete and win in the post season.

In years past - post 2005 - many of you - fans of another SoCon team, weren't afraid of a specific Furman player. Last season our inside run game was scary but it ran into a wall towards the end of the 2017 season. We have a long way to go in 2018 and we will see if the depth and versatility at tailback will keep being potent.

I'm going to put Furman and Wofford in the same bubble, both schools have to continue to get better players and continue to become more multi-dimensonal to compete against the CAA and MVC in the playoffs.

I think you are seeing Hendrix trying to rebuild a football team in the mold of the now "old" Furman teams.

You are seeing a focus on big arm QBs with speed. Maybe "dual threat" QB is a way to describe them, but these guys are not running backs that throw. They are QBs that can run if necessary and on design.

You are starting to see the running back by committee again. Furman is rotating 5 or 6 running backs into the game again, which we really have not seen since the mid-2000s. You are also starting to see the multi-purpose "feature" fullback - a bigger back that can operate as a blocker, single back, and threat out of the backfield.

You are seeing a focus on ball distribution. The mid-2000s teams were great at getting backs, WRs, and TEs all involved in the passing game. I think you could see again where the leading pass catcher is a WR, but then the next handful of guys are backs and TEs.

[Reign of Terrier]

Tyler Voyles had knee surgery, I think during the spring. He wasn't in the senior picture group, but he was in the linebacker group photo. He was in his jersey on the sidelines at the Wofford game, so I assume he's planning on playing next season.

I would love to somehow watch the 2004, 2005 Furman teams play one of the Dakota schools of today, I'd include the Eagles and APP in that wishful thinking. Wishful thinking, and maybe inaccurate.

For the SoCon to move up a level to be able to compete at the national stage I still believe it's going to come down to coaching and players. I can only speak about Furman, but the same may be true with Conklin, Arth, Lamb, Speir, Sanders, Thompson, and Hatcher. Hendrix and staff are recruiting their tails off. Furman is building up from the men on the line, as well as a focus on playmakers. Furman just picked up it's fourth lineman commit (3 OL, 1 DL). They have several commits that choose Furman purple over JMU purple - this has to continue if Furman has any hope to compete and win in the post season.

In years past - post 2005 - many of you - fans of another SoCon team, weren't afraid of a specific Furman player. Last season our inside run game was scary but it ran into a wall towards the end of the 2017 season. We have a long way to go in 2018 and we will see if the depth and versatility at tailback will keep being potent.

I'm going to put Furman and Wofford in the same bubble, both schools have to continue to get better players and continue to become more multi-dimensonal to compete against the CAA and MVC in the playoffs.

Well...I would hope so...I don't know how else the game could be affected xsmiley_wix

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, I think the top tier of the socon can compete with the top of the MVFC if you take NDSU out of it. Wofford went to double OT with Youngstown State a couple years back and we scored more points in that game than we did against VMI, Charleston Southern, and the Citadel.

The MVFC is good, but they get a lot of love in the computers because Massey and others use a more sophisticated transitive algorithm that inherently rewards exposure or degrees of separation from NDSU. Take away NDSU and every other program in that conference is indistinguishable from the rest of FCS. Like, if you put their playoff resume and removed their team names, I don't think the average FCS fan (without access to google) could distinguish an MVFC team from a Southern, CAA, Southland or even Big South playoff team.

[kdinva]

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/for-the-citadel-and-vmi-the-silver-shako-might-mean/article_840a2d94-d301-11e8-8aa3-5b6add075145.html

[FUBeAR]

Well...I would hope so...I don't know how else the game could be affected xsmiley_wixMessage Boards?

[FUGameBreaker]

Also, I think the top tier of the socon can compete with the top of the MVFC if you take NDSU out of it. Wofford went to double OT with Youngstown State a couple years back and we scored more points in that game than we did against VMI, Charleston Southern, and the Citadel.

The MVFC is good, but they get a lot of love in the computers because Massey and others use a more sophisticated transitive algorithm that inherently rewards exposure or degrees of separation from NDSU. Take away NDSU and every other program in that conference is indistinguishable from the rest of FCS. Like, if you put their playoff resume and removed their team names, I don't think the average FCS fan (without access to google) could distinguish an MVFC team from a Southern, CAA, Southland or even Big South playoff team.


Completely agree xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/for-the-citadel-and-vmi-the-silver-shako-might-mean/article_840a2d94-d301-11e8-8aa3-5b6add075145.html
Is that a replica of a vegetable or a sex toy sitting on top of that waste basket?

[FUGameBreaker]

Is that a replica of a vegetable or a sex toy sitting on top of that waste basket?


Lol!!

[Scrappy94]

1. Wofford
2. ETSU
3. Chattanooga
4. Furman
5. Mercer
6. Samford
7. The Citadel
8. Western Carolina
9. VMI

The Citadel @ VMI - 41-28
ETSU @ Wofford - 28-13
Samford @ Furman - 35-31
Western Carolina @ Mercer - 38-28

[ElCid]

1. Wofford
2. ETSU
3. Chattanooga
4. Furman
5. Mercer
6. Samford
7. The Citadel
8. Western Carolina
9. VMI

The Citadel @ VMI - 41-28
ETSU @ Wofford - 28-13
Samford @ Furman - 35-31
Western Carolina @ Mercer - 38-28

That all looks pretty close, except I got Furman by 3.

[PaladinFan]

According to some reports, Furman may have both starting CBs, Quan Weems and Amir Trapp, back against Samford. Weems hasn't played since hurting his knee against Elon. Trapp missed the Wofford game after minor surgery.

Having a full complement of defensive backs would be a welcome addition against Samford.

[Reign of Terrier]

One team may score 30 in the Furman/Samford game, but I doubt both do. If Furman is clicking, their style of play precludes that possibly. And if they aren't clicking, no way they score 30

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[FUGameBreaker]

So Furman's (worst nightmare) QB Roberts goes down early in 1st quarter and yet somehow Furman has found a way to lead 12-10 at halftime against Samford, our true Freshman backup QB is not very good but somehow our defense is finding a way to keep us in it

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Wofford 30, ETSU 17 Final

Congrats to Wofford on a great game. ETSU's conference title hopes still alive, needs to win out and hope Wofford loses once more to secure auto-bid outright.

[Mocs123]

I'm sure ETSU fans are disappointed in the result of the game today, but Bucs fans have to be happy with the progress they have made over the past year.

[FUGameBreaker]

Furman with Roberts at QB all season would have ran right through the SoCon undefeated

Furman without Roberts will struggle to win a game

[Reign of Terrier]

ETSU defense has a lot of accolades for good reason. They are legit. Something to watch: Wofford's kicker sprained his ankle today and Blake Morgan got hurt too, but I'm not sure how bad.

Socon officiating was atrocious today.

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[PaladinFan]

Furman fans have seen this movie before.

Grainger may be a one day star in Greenville. He's not ready now and is a huge drop off from Roberts. Similar story to Furman's other losses. Defense plays well, offense simply can't stay on the field in the second half and constantly turn it over.

Furman is just suffering through a lot of rookie mistakes right now.

[Reign of Terrier]

So right now it looks like the only legit playoff contenders are ETSU, Wofford, Chattanooga, and Samford. Mercer will be in the mix if they come back against Western Carolina

If samford wins out, they get the autobid I think. If Wofford wins out they get the autobid.

I think an 8-3 ETSU gets in, as does an 8-3 Chattanooga. Wofford at 8-3 would almost certainly get in, especially if they only lose to Samford, if Samford wins out and gets the autobid.

I think the socon likely gets at least 2 in. It's just a matter of which two. Obviously I think Wofford will be one.

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[Reign of Terrier]

Mercer leading Western 35-27.

Mercer has run 27 plays on offense and scored 28 points. The other 7 came from a kick return.

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[gofurman]

Furman fans have seen this movie before.

Grainger may be a one day star in Greenville. He's not ready now and is a huge drop off from Roberts. Similar story to Furman's other losses. Defense plays well, offense simply can't stay on the field in the second half and constantly turn it over.

Furman is just suffering through a lot of rookie mistakes right now.

I don’t LIKE losing. But I get it.

I HATE injuries to starting QB (early in game) AND the 2nd QB AND starting CB AND RB .. and Morehead (starting TB) never played. Lose TWO QBs. Mother ef. That really sucked

Wofford saw our O last week w a healthy Roberts ... without him we are a shell of that until Grainger progresses. And I don’t want to hear the ***** of NDSU how no one player should make that much difference. *****, CLEMSON had to play 3 quarters without their starter at QB and it almost derailed their national title hopes !! That’s at Clemson w FBS depth!!

Those are BRUTAL Game-changing injuries.

We are not a flash in the pan last week. Despite having NO offense to lean (without Roberts arm) on we still led Samford 19-10 in the third quarter

Sucks. Hope the team stays motivated as they need to keep playing and getting reps to improve. - we have Citadel next. Ask Wofford (not a jab, just objective) how well Staggs schemes option D. He’s really good at that ... though without Roberts we may not score 20

I take nothing away from Sammy. Good win (though there was too much yapping and shoving after the play). Good win.

My guys need to regroup and hope some of the injuries are minor - ! We can possibly beat Citadel without Roberts bc of our option D but it would be a lot tougher

[Reign of Terrier]

I feel confident in saying that Wofford probably has the best depth of any team in the socon. Depth doesn't win games always, but I think it creates a general level of consistency.

At this level, I think that's what distinguishes the average from the good from the great.

Being a start up program, ETSU doesn't have that yet. Furman being a young team doesn't have it yet either. Chattanooga hasn't quite figured themselves out yet, and Samford is hurting on defense.

I'm starting to think the reason why the conference beats up on each other is because of the depth of the average team. You see glimmers of improvement in teams like Mercer.

The socon is probably 2 years away from being where it needs to be. Mercer and ETSU are no longer start ups, but they haven't found their footing yet. Furman is young. I don't know if Western or VMI will ever play great defense and that's the missing piece for them. For one reason or another, Samford and the Citadel are always missing a piece somewhere and that keeps them down. Chattanooga feels more put together than the aforementioned teams, even if they don't wow you in the stats column.

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[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I'm sure ETSU fans are disappointed in the result of the game today, but Bucs fans have to be happy with the progress they have made over the past year.

This Buc fan is in agreement with you. The right head coaching hire makes a world of difference between a great debut season and a disastrous first season (looking at you Carl Torbush).

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Mercer 59, Western Carolina 46 Final. Both teams have a hell of an offense but they don't have any defense to speak of.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Samford and Jacksonville are the only two opponents Mercer has held under 30.

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[gofurman]

. I think Samford and Jacksonville are the only two opponents Mercer has held under 30.

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Which is odd because I think Samford has an offense. Maybe Sammy doesn't have a great D but they can explode on O

[sudog03]

Which is odd because I think Samford has an offense. Maybe Sammy doesn't have a great D but they can explode on O

LOL. Furman's offense scored 1 more TD than Sammy's defense did today.

[sudog03]

Socon officiating was atrocious today.

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This really is an issue. The inconsistency of judgement calls from game to game is astounding, heck even within the same game is bad. Adding replay was a mistake, killing the flow of the game. Had an almost 9 minute review in SU/Furman today.

[Reign of Terrier]

This really is an issue. The inconsistency of judgement calls from game to game is astounding, heck even within the same game is bad. Adding replay was a mistake, killing the flow of the game. Had an almost 9 minute review in SU/Furman today.Wofford had an obvious strip sack that probably would have killed a lesser player than Herink but he was called down and the replay was not good for the guys in stripes

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[SU DOG]

Maybe in a couple of weeks Wofford will not be thinking that Samford is hurting on defense.

[longtimemocfan]

Mercer 59, Western Carolina 46 Final. Both teams have a hell of an offense but they don't have any defense to speak of.Not hardly, 1282 yards of offense combined for both teams. 710 yards by Western sheesh.

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[gofurman]

LOL. Furman's offense scored 1 more TD than Sammy's defense did today.

SUDOG03, You are aware that was a TRUE FRESHMAN BACKUP QB that you played... Right??? Cmon man. Be reasonable.

I mean let's take Hodges out of the game and see how it goes.

Roberts for Furman - NOT HODGES - was the reigning SoCon player of the week. He was 16-19 and accounted for 5 TDs vs Wofford. Take that out of your offense and replace it with a true FRESHMAN. So essentially drop Hodges... Cmon man. I expect more.

And despite Hodges vs a just-finished-high-school QB you trailed as late as the third quarter. Cmon man.

You all are good but have flaws. Though I will be pulling for you as maybe Furman could tie w a 6-2 league record. Cmon man, be a good winner. That should be easy

[gofurman]

Woke up late at night ...

Juat realized Furman COULD get a SoCon ring this year as co-champs:

Wofford one league loss
ETSU One league loss
Mercer. One league loss

Furman and Samford and Chatt have two league losses

Well if we won out - A BIG IF HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON INJURIES especially Roberts after today (if he can't return this year probably not happening as our O can't move enough and D gets gassed) '. But If we win out are 6-2.

We play Citadel, Chatt, VMI, and Mercer. So if we win Mercer takes a second loss. Also Chatt would have a third loss. So we would need Wofford and ETSU to take one loss each and we would still be SoCon Co-champs. We probably wouldn't get an invite to playoffs at 6-4 (there is your hurricane asterisk of the cancelled Colgate game xsmhx ) ... But we would be SoCon champs. Well, co-champs :D

So so we need help but it could happen. Mostly we need to be healthy

oh well, worst case we get real scary for next year. YoungTerrier and others have seen our potential. The entire offense returns except Dirks and Roberts. We could be a very scary offense next year and w Staggs etc coaching D we will get it. He already has them playing superb option D. Though if Roberts can't play our D may not look good the rest of the year as they may be on the field too much

[PaladinFan]

SUDOG, You are aware that was a TRUE FRESHMAN BACKUP QB that you played... Right??? Cmon man. Be reasonable.

I mean let's take Hodges out of the game and see how it goes.

Roberts for Furman - NOT HODGES - was the reigning SoCon player of the week. He was 16-19 and accounted for 5 TDs vs Wofford. Take that out of your offense and replace it with a true FRESHMAN. So essentially drop Hodges... Cmon man. I expect more.

And despite Hodges vs a just-finished-high-school QB you trailed as late as the third quarter. Cmon man.

You all are good but have flaws. Though I will be pulling for you as maybe Furman could tie w a 6-2 league record. Cmon man, be a good winner. That should be easy

Two things.

Samford has a good defense.

If Samford fans think Furman being without Harris Roberts didn't massively impact that football game, they are kidding themselves.

[sudog03]

Was it Robert's responsibility to block #99?

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[PaladinFan]

Was it Robert's responsibility to block #99?

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Gooden wasn't blocked on that play. Furman was optioning him.

He made a great play on the ball, but that should not have been a fumble. It wasn't stripped, Grainger just lost the handle on it. I've lost count, but he's probably fumbled half a dozen times this year in limited action.

Grainger may end up being a really good QB. He's clearly got speed and a good throwing arm. Decision-making is going to come with experience.

[sudog03]

Gooden wasn't blocked on that play. Furman was optioning him.

He made a great play on the ball, but that should not have been a fumble. It wasn't stripped, Grainger just lost the handle on it. I've lost count, but he's probably fumbled half a dozen times this year in limited action.

Grainger may end up being a really good QB. He's clearly got speed and a good throwing arm. Decision-making is going to come with experience.What about the play where they designed rollout to his side and tried to block him with a TE?

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[SU DOG]

SUDOG, You are aware that was a TRUE FRESHMAN BACKUP QB that you played... Right??? Cmon man. Be reasonable.

I mean let's take Hodges out of the game and see how it goes.

Roberts for Furman - NOT HODGES - was the reigning SoCon player of the week. He was 16-19 and accounted for 5 TDs vs Wofford. Take that out of your offense and replace it with a true FRESHMAN. So essentially drop Hodges... Cmon man. I expect more.

And despite Hodges vs a just-finished-high-school QB you trailed as late as the third quarter. Cmon man.

You all are good but have flaws. Though I will be pulling for you as maybe Furman could tie w a 6-2 league record. Cmon man, be a good winner. That should be easy

I think sudog03 was simply defending the Samford defense, and not being a bad winner. There have been several negative comments from other posters on this thread and maybe others about how bad this unit is. Our kids played hard, and brought the lumber on many occasions. YES, we are well aware that the QB injury affected the game, and I want to say here and now that we all hope that the young man will make a fast recovery and returns soon.

[sudog03]

SUDOG, You are aware that was a TRUE FRESHMAN BACKUP QB that you played... Right??? Cmon man. Be reasonable.

Gofurman, you are aware that Samford had to start a walk on at safety due to multiple injuries at the position...Right?

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[Mocs123]

Samford doesn't have the best defense in the SoCon, but they are far from the worst. Western'd D isn't great, and although we haven't played VMI yet, so I haven't seen them in person, they are giving up 50 points per game.

Samfords D looks as normal - athletic and talented, but under performs on the field. Honestly, I think some of that is due to the offense they run. An explosive, quick scoring offense keeps your D on the field a lot.

[SU DOG]

Pretty good observations MOCs. Some of that underperforming this year is due to new players and some unfortunate injuries. I do see some improvement recently which makes me more optimistic. Our defense will certainly be tested against the Terriers.

[Mocs123]

I'm not saying I'm going to pick Samford to beat Wofford, but I do think Samford could cause them problems if they get a couple of quick scores and force Wofford to play from behind. The TO isn't made to come back from two TD deficits. Woffords pass D is the best I think it has been in years though, they didn't give us any deep balls at all - though Hodges seems to do his damage with shorter passes letting the Samford wideouts get the yards.

[Reign of Terrier]

I believe I'm the one everyone is passive aggressively referring to wrt criticism of Samford's defense.

I never said they were terrible. I said they were hurting, which is objectively true with the injuries they have. Samford's strategy is to win shoot outs and their defense is conducive to that.

Samford's defense last year let teams go up and down the field on them but forced turnovers at key times. I think at one point they held opponents to score only ~30% of the time but at the same time gave up some bad yardage totals, especially in the run game.

But this year, they aren't as good. At one point samford's defense let their opponents score over 50% of the possessions they had. VMI and Western probably improved those numbers (I haven't updated the stats), but that shouldn't be surprising because samford can probably replicate VMI's game plan better than anyone in the conference and Western doesn't have the run game they had last year.

Had Furman played the style of offense they did last year, they probably perform a lot better than yesterday. There's a clear drop off from Roberts to the other QBs, and Hendrix altered the offense this year to be more perimeter-oriented. Furman had one of their best days running the ball, but they were missing the pass threat with Roberts hurt and they couldn't execute. The fact that they had to kick 3 50+ field goals is a big indicator of that.

Samford is going to be tested in the next couple weeks on defense with Wofford and the Citadel. Kennesaw state is the only comparable team to those two, and they never punted in that game I don't think.

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[gofurman]

Was it Robert's responsibility to block #99?

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If you mean the fumble ... that probably doesn’t happen w Roberts bc he is too experienced and eats the ball or makes the pitch. As PaladinFan said our true freshman QB has been VERY fumble prone.

If you argue with this point you DONT KNOW FOOTBALL. I don’t call people out much but you aren’t being reasonable. Wofford has great interior DL. Did Roberts fumble vs them? I don’t think so. 99 probably hits Roberts and it’s a sack or he gets the pitch away.

Losing the reigning SoCon player of the week? NO, THAT DOESNT CHANGE ANYTHING. Good lord man. It would represent your school better if you would agree with me. When you don’t have to repect 60% of our plays and all we can do is run right, run left or run middle ? Yeah. That’s hard to stop. And you still gave up 25 points

Look. I’m NOT smack talking Samford. What ii am doing is hoping you gain some reasonability. Ask Wofford if we win without Roberts?? Would appreciate YoungTerrier weighing in on that. Without the threat of THROWING everyone is easy to stop

As I said, how would you have done without Hodges?

[sudog03]

Teams went up and down the field on Samford last season??? Using league games only, we literrally LED the league in fewest yards per play allowed. Including a game where our defense with 2 safeties outscored the opponent.

If qb depth is an issue, I'd recommend not employing an offense that exposes the QB to so many hits (rollouts, option runs, etc.). If Hodges were to go down, I think we actually have a very capable backup in Liam Welch. While their certainly would be drop off, I don't think it would be to the level that our opponents would hope for.

[PaladinFan]

I think sudog03 was simply defending the Samford defense, and not being a bad winner. There have been several negative comments from other posters on this thread and maybe others about how bad this unit is. Our kids played hard, and brought the lumber on many occasions. YES, we are well aware that the QB injury affected the game, and I want to say here and now that we all hope that the young man will make a fast recovery and returns soon.

I don't think anyone said they are a bad defense. If anything, folks said they were not as good as last year, which I think is subjectively accurate.

They are still an athletic defense with the best player in the league. They benefitted from facing a Furman team without their most critical player. It's the difference in seeing Furman run through Wofford last week and having to settle for 50 yard field goals this week. It's just a different team without Roberts.

[PaladinFan]

Teams went up and down the field on Samford last season??? Using league games only, we literrally LED the league in fewest yards per play allowed. Including a game where our defense with 2 safeties outscored the opponent.

If qb depth is an issue, I'd recommend not employing an offense that exposes the QB to so many hits (rollouts, option runs, etc.). If Hodges were to go down, I think we actually have a very capable backup in Liam Welch. While their certainly would be drop off, I don't think it would be to the level that our opponents would hope for.

Anyone that suggests Samford had a bad defense last season wasn't watching. Samford was probably the second best defense in the SoCon. I think there have been plenty of Hatcher teams with bad defenses, but last season's Samford team wasn't one of them.

QB depth is an issue for a number of reasons. I think some of that is poor recruiting by the prior regime. Several QBs on the depth chart the last few years ended up moving to different positions.

Realistically, Furman benefitted last year from having an all American center and a solid and experienced senior QB. They entered this season with virtually no experience at QB. Roberts is a talented player, but he's still only played in mop up duty last year. Behind him, it's nothing. All of those guys are operating under a brand new OC with only one other senior on offense.

I think Furman fans probably expected to just pick up from last year. Realistically, this was more of a rebuilding year as the coaching staff develops depth. Ideally, you'd love to have a QB step in after a few years in the program.

[SU DOG]

I believe I'm the one everyone is passive aggressively referring to wrt criticism of Samford's defense.

I never said they were terrible. I said they were hurting, which is objectively true with the injuries they have. Samford's strategy is to win shoot outs and their defense is conducive to that.

Samford's defense last year let teams go up and down the field on them but forced turnovers at key times. I think at one point they held opponents to score only ~30% of the time but at the same time gave up some bad yardage totals, especially in the run game.

But this year, they aren't as good. At one point samford's defense let their opponents score over 50% of the possessions they had. VMI and Western probably improved those numbers (I haven't updated the stats), but that shouldn't be surprising because samford can probably replicate VMI's game plan better than anyone in the conference and Western doesn't have the run game they had last year.

Had Furman played the style of offense they did last year, they probably perform a lot better than yesterday. There's a clear drop off from Roberts to the other QBs, and Hendrix altered the offense this year to be more perimeter-oriented. Furman had one of their best days running the ball, but they were missing the pass threat with Roberts hurt and they couldn't execute. The fact that they had to kick 3 50+ field goals is a big indicator of that.

Samford is going to be tested in the next couple weeks on defense with Wofford and the Citadel. Kennesaw state is the only comparable team to those two, and they never punted in that game I don't think.

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Well BINGO YT, yes I believe you are the poster who disses the Samford defense almost constantly to a tiring degree. As for the reference to KSU, they did punt only once, but Samford punted only 3 times ourselves. Also, the KSU offense had their LOWEST output of the season in that game, and totaled only 14 more yards of total offense than Samford. This after our coaches somehow had brain constipation and we actually ran the ball more in that game than we passed it. You may be able to disparage the Samford D much more in 2 weeks, who knows. Until then, however, it might be wise to temper some of those comments.

[Reign of Terrier]

Teams went up and down the field on Samford last season??? Using league games only, we literrally LED the league in fewest yards per play allowed. Including a game where our defense with 2 safeties outscored the opponent.

If qb depth is an issue, I'd recommend not employing an offense that exposes the QB to so many hits (rollouts, option runs, etc.). If Hodges were to go down, I think we actually have a very capable backup in Liam Welch. While their certainly would be drop off, I don't think it would be to the level that our opponents would hope for.Yep. Wofford, Kennesaw and Western had over 5 yards per carry. 5 of your 12 opponents put 400 yards on you.

Turnover margin was a huge equalizer for Samford last year. You can blame it on your style of play favoring more possessions and thus yards per play is a good metric, but Samford was not in the top 3 defenses last year.


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[Reign of Terrier]

Well BINGO YT, yes I believe you are the poster who disses the Samford defense almost constantly to a tiring degree. As for the reference to KSU, they did punt only once, but Samford punted only 3 times ourselves. Also, the KSU offense had their LOWEST output of the season in that game, and totaled only 14 more yards of total offense than Samford. This after our coaches somehow had brain constipation and we actually ran the ball more in that game than we passed it. You may be able to disparage the Samford D much more in 2 weeks, who knows. Until then, however, it might be wise to temper some of those comments.What's great about this board is the herding of opinions. Namely, I don't benefit from being the only Wofford poster on here. But when more than one person has an opinion, it gravitates toward legitimate.

Put another way, Furman fans are the arbiters of reasonability because there are more of them here

We literally had a conversation a few weeks ago about how spread offenses like Western and samford also have defenses that aren't great, and the possible reasons behind it. The way it's been since Hatcher has been coach is that the defense leans on the offense. This isn't something new. You see it at FBS as well. It's not often that teams like Texas Tech or Washington State hold teams below 20. Anecdotally (though I wouldn't be surprised if there's data to support this), the teams that are the worst at stopping the run/option from a yards per carry aspect are usually air raid teams.

Looking at last year's schedule, that's a valid evaluation of Samford's defense. Good against balanced teams and teams that pass more, but mostly not against run-first teams. The one exception to this is probably the citadel, which they forced some key turnovers and scored fast, putting them down big early, changing their strategy(which btw they were still at their average at the end of the day). They slowed down Furman, forcing them into field goal and fourth down decisions, but still gave up 400 yards.

The offenses in the socon weren't great last year, especially compared to this year. VMI, the citadel, and ETSU were notably bad and Mercer was kind of medicore.

But now because Furman lost yesterday, all of this is a hot take by a Wofford homer.

Gimme a break.

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[sudog03]

What's great about this board is the herding of opinions. Namely, I don't benefit from being the only Wofford poster on here. But when more than one person has an opinion, it gravitates toward legitimate.

Put another way, Furman fans are the arbiters of reasonability because there are more of them here

We literally had a conversation a few weeks ago about how spread offenses like Western and samford also have defenses that aren't great, and the possible reasons behind it. The way it's been since Hatcher has been coach is that the defense leans on the offense. This isn't something new. You see it at FBS as well. It's not often that teams like Texas Tech or Washington State hold teams below 20. Anecdotally (though I wouldn't be surprised if there's data to support this), the teams that are the worst at stopping the run/option from a yards per carry aspect are usually air raid teams.

Looking at last year's schedule, that's a valid evaluation of Samford's defense. Good against balanced teams and teams that pass more, but mostly not against run-first teams. The one exception to this is probably the citadel, which they forced some key turnovers and scored fast, putting them down big early, changing their strategy. They slowed down Furman, forcing them into field goal and fourth down decisions, but still gave up 400 yards)

But now because Furman lost yesterday, all of this is a hot take by a Wofford homer.

Gimme a break.

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Lol at cherry picking a few games that back your theory vs. looking the entire season.

[PaladinFan]

Samford doesn't have the best defense in the SoCon, but they are far from the worst. Western'd D isn't great, and although we haven't played VMI yet, so I haven't seen them in person, they are giving up 50 points per game.

Samfords D looks as normal - athletic and talented, but under performs on the field. Honestly, I think some of that is due to the offense they run. An explosive, quick scoring offense keeps your D on the field a lot.

They are an athletic defense. I think with Roberts Furman probably hits 30+ points and wins the game by keeping Hodges on the sideline.

I think the Paladins had a good game plan against Samford. It just got thrown out the window when our QB went down. We became a lot more predictable and Samford took advantage.

[Reign of Terrier]

Lol at cherry picking a few games that back your theory vs. looking the entire season.What cherry picking is finding an obscure stat (yards per play) as your only evidence of having a respectable defense, where the conference leaders are probably separated by a decimal point. I didn't even include the UGA stats, that's 6 of 12 opponents you allowed 400 yards+ but you shut down 4 of the bottom 5 offenses. Congrats?

Heck, now that I'm looking at the stats, it's much worse. Your stat isn't even correct. Samford finished 7th in total defense and was 4th in yards per play behind Chattanooga, Wofford and ETSU.

Look, none of this means Wofford will beat Samford. Heck, the last few years have taught us if there's one thing Hatcher is good at, it's beating Wofford. But if that happens it's either because Wofford loses the turnover battle and or Duck Hodges passes for 400 yards.


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[gofurman]

Gofurman, you are aware that Samford had to start a walk on at safety due to multiple injuries at the position...Right?

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I am very VERY VERY aware.

Probably MORE THAN 98% of people at the game on either side sitting in the stands... From memory Let me name the injuries I knew of and was watching. Please OBJECTIVELY read this and then ask yourself how many others in the stands do you think could really run this list from memoryor are even aware??

. Samford - HURT /. Starting center number 77? Replaced by center number 75 who I believe came from university of Miami. Safety number 10/ Koi Freeman. I believe he was the starter. Safety # 41 Pettway. Linebacker #24 who started early in the year at FSU Etc. replaced by LB #26. Maybe #23 also? These were the ones I was looking for when the game started

to give you an example how much I study opponents I have already been watching Citadel games on replay as of midnight last night. That's probably OCD. LOL AT ME. xthumbsupx

we have guys I doubt you are aware of. Maybe you are. Which position did Furman have the starter leave the roster? Which starters didn't play yesterday for Furman? There were two KEY starters who were supposed to play who never saw the field. I never even mentioned them until now...

Also it's hard to pick on a safety when we have a freshman QB who isn't ready to throw the ball much. You can "hide" that injury if that makes sense

Look man. All those listed injuries don't equal losing your key QB In the MIDDLE OF THE GAME. I am not being Pro-Furman. If it was Samford and Hodges left in the first quarter I promise you I would say the EXACT same thing. Better to have an injury three or four weeks ago (as most of Samfords were) and thus have weeks of practice for the backups to learn. The absolute worst scenario is to lose a QB in the middle of a game.

Cmon man. I am not railing on Samford. You won fair and square. Good job. Be a good winner man. If it were me on the Winning side I would say "great win / glad we won but I hate it went down like that and I hope your QB is ok long-term".

[gofurman]

sudog03, for what it is worth to show I truly try to look at numbers and try to be objective (in hopes people respect both my pro-Furman and critical-of-Furman opinions) ...

Let me say Samford's D last year was very very impressive. With Gooden, LB sulamon(?), the CB Omari

i think your D this year is a notch less than last year but still decent

[gofurman]

I think sudog03 was simply defending the Samford defense, and not being a bad winner. There have been several negative comments from other posters on this thread and maybe others about how bad this unit is. Our kids played hard, and brought the lumber on many occasions. YES, we are well aware that the QB injury affected the game, and I want to say here and now that we all hope that the young man will make a fast recovery and returns soon.

SU DOG. thank you. You get it - That's all I was saying. That 1) the QB injury affected the game a LOT. And 2) thanks for wishing the young man a fast recovery

samford won fair and square.

maybe I didn't articulate this well in earlier posts.

In any case, thank you for that post !!!

[sudog03]

sudog03, for what it is worth to show I truly try to look at numbers and try to be objective (in hopes people respect both my pro-Furman and critical-of-Furman opinions) ...

Let me say Samford's D last year was very very impressive. With Gooden, LB sulamon(?), the CB Omari

i think your D this year is a notch less than last year but still decent

Completely agree. We had some real question marks coming into the season. I think we miss KT Marks, our interior DL the most. Then we lost a starting LB and 2 of our 3 best safeties to injury.

Other than the fumble, I thought Granger played really well. Had a ball clearly dropped, and then another good pass where the receiver didn't have his head turned around. I thought the ineffective play of the Furman OL and the playcalling had more to do with Furman's offensive play than Granger did.

[PaladinFan]

Completely agree. We had some real question marks coming into the season. I think we miss KT Marks, our interior DL the most. Then we lost a starting LB and 2 of our 3 best safeties to injury.

Other than the fumble, I thought Granger played really well. Had a ball clearly dropped, and then another good pass where the receiver didn't have his head turned around. I thought the ineffective play of the Furman OL and the playcalling had more to do with Furman's offensive play than Granger did.

To draw that final conclusion, you have to see Furman play with Roberts.

As I noted on the other thread, Grainger does not look comfortable running the option. He spent most of his career as a WR in high school, and ran a spread style system his one year at QB. So, not only is he a true freshman, but he's a true freshman that has limited experience at QB and that limited experience came in a very different type of offense.

Roberts, by contrast, is a fifth year senior who even played in a similar run-based offense in high school to what Furman runs now.

The biggest difference is with the option. Several times you saw Grainger simply make the wrong read--giving the ball when he should keep it, holding it when he should pitch it, that sort of thing. Furman had several big plays in the run game set up, but the ball went to the wrong spot. Again, you expect that with a freshman QB whose never run this sort of offense.

I don't see Furman's issue on Saturday being "ineffective" offensive line play or playcalling. Furman's offensive line did a fine job last week against a (in my opinion) superior Wofford defensive front seven. The issue is that Furman's playbook becomes far more limited with Grainger in the game. He's not near as good running the option as Roberts is and lacks the same touch on his passes (ask Wofford). Defenses can eliminate a good chunk of Furman's offensive potency because there's just little risk that the option will get around their end.

Just as an example, at least once Furman ran the option with a read to the fullback for a short 1 or 2 yard gain. The blocking on that play was well set up for Grainger to take the ball around the end for a big run. In my opinion, he made the wrong read (I might be wrong). So, now Furman is behind the sticks, has to pass, and Samford's defense can come after him. One or two mistakes on a drive can put the offense in difficult positions where the defense simply doesn't have to worry about what else you might do.

I think it is fair to ask whether Furman should have a different playbook for Grainger - something more similar to what WCU runs. You look around college football, and there just aren't that many 6'4 QBs running the split veer option, and Furman has two of them.