#4 Wofford @ Furman

[FUGameBreaker]

Welp, its that time again, the deep south's oldest football match-up and battle of I-85 is on xthumbsupx

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1049325607211950085

[FUGameBreaker]

Pretty much everything on the line at this point for the Paladins

[Reign of Terrier]

Finally Furman acknowledges us as a rival. I have something in my eye.

[FUGameBreaker]

2017 Week 1 Furman @ Wofford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w21-ME73VrQ

2017 FCS Second Round Furman @ Wofford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg1ezX4LSMc

[FUGameBreaker]

Finally Furman acknowledges us as a rival. I have something in my eye.


Lol :D

You've earned it

[PaladinFan]

Finally Furman acknowledges us as a rival. I have something in my eye.

Last man standing, as it were.

[FUGameBreaker]

Woff has been pretty stout this year I must say
https://twitter.com/WoffordTerriers/status/1049048354641104897

[FUBeAR]

Finally Furman acknowledges us as a rival. I have something in my eye.Mistakes sometimes happen when millennials ‘manage’ social media accounts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oHwaSs0HsE

They don’t seem to be too up to speed on 19th century history. So, you really can’t expect them to have much perspective on something that started in 1889.

I’ll call Mike Buddie today & see if we can get this error corrected.

[PaladinFan]

Woff has been pretty stout this year I must say
https://twitter.com/WoffordTerriers/status/1049048354641104897

Didn't mention that Wofford's opponents are a combined 8-19.

In fact, Wofford has played one team with a winning record - UTC. UTC's 4 wins are against teams with a combined 4-16 record.

As I noted on the other thread, Furman's four opponents are 18-4.

So, yes. They've looked really stout against bad teams, which is how good teams typically look.

[Reign of Terrier]

Didn't mention that Wofford's opponents are a combined 8-19.

In fact, Wofford has played one team with a winning record - UTC. UTC's 4 wins are against teams with a combined 4-16 record.

As I noted on the other thread, Furman's four opponents are 18-4.

So, yes. They've looked really stout against bad teams, which is how good teams typically look.

There's so many degrees of separation in this post that we may soon find Kevin Bacon.

[OL FU]

Finally Furman acknowledges us as a rival. I have something in my eye.


xlolxxlolxxlolx

nah:p

[AppApp]

with us playing on this tuesday, planning on making the trek to gville to visit my daughter at furman and take in what should be a good socon game, best of luck to both

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford's so deep at linebacker that our sack leader isn't even listed on the two deep. That could be SID incompetence, but still.

My one concern on defense only comes from ignorance in our scheme last year compared to this year. Conklin thus far has proven to be a great schemer, holding the Citadel to season low offensive/rushing numbers (admittedly, that may be the fact that we have the capability to recreate their offense more than his scheming) and playing uncharacteristically good pass defense for Wofford, holding Chattanooga and Gardner Webb to below 200 yards and VMI below 300 yards passing (most of which came in garbage time). We have multiple packages, run different schemes (bump and run, etc), and blitz more effectively than last year. The end result is that we've been playing better defense and it shows in the stats (total defense, third down defense, etc).

But I'm not sure if the multiple package has as much strength as what we did last year. We basically just went man-up in the trenches and did our typical unaggressive zone and had our way with Furman. It's probably one of the best approaches because if you blitz too much against option-oriented teams like Wofford/Furman/the Citadel, you could get burned. if you run man coverage and your DB gets caught in the backfield, you could get burned. We didn't have this problem last year because we ran such a zone and didn't blitz as much.

Even though Furman's not as good on offense this year as last, I'm still interested to see what Conklin and Siefkis do for this one.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, YT is considering making the trip for this one.

[PaladinFan]

Wofford's so deep at linebacker that our sack leader isn't even listed on the two deep. That could be SID incompetence, but still.

My one concern on defense only comes from ignorance in our scheme last year compared to this year. Conklin thus far has proven to be a great schemer, holding the Citadel to season low offensive/rushing numbers (admittedly, that may be the fact that we have the capability to recreate their offense more than his scheming) and playing uncharacteristically good pass defense for Wofford, holding Chattanooga and Gardner Webb to below 200 yards and VMI below 300 yards passing (most of which came in garbage time). We have multiple packages, run different schemes (bump and run, etc), and blitz more effectively than last year. The end result is that we've been playing better defense and it shows in the stats (total defense, third down defense, etc).

But I'm not sure if the multiple package has as much strength as what we did last year. We basically just went man-up in the trenches and did our typical unaggressive zone and had our way with Furman. It's probably one of the best approaches because if you blitz too much against option-oriented teams like Wofford/Furman/the Citadel, you could get burned. if you run man coverage and your DB gets caught in the backfield, you could get burned. We didn't have this problem last year because we ran such a zone and didn't blitz as much.

Even though Furman's not as good on offense this year as last, I'm still interested to see what Conklin and Siefkis do for this one.

I mean, not the biggest deal. Adrian Hope, who is #2 in the FCS in sacks, does not start for Furman. He was the nation's leader in sacks until Saturday (now second) having played fewer games than nearly everyone else and is a backup.

[FUGameBreaker]

I mean, not the biggest deal. Adrian Hope, who is #2 in the FCS in sacks, does not start for Furman. He was the nation's leader in sacks until Saturday (now second) having played fewer games than nearly everyone else and is a backup.


Haha yep, beat me to it but was about to say the same
Hope will be a stud, hell he already is

[PaladinFan]

Furman's game notes and two deep. http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/2018_Furman_Game_Notes_-_Stats.pdf

Looks like the Paladins are full steam health-wise. A couple of guys that missed the Elon, ETSU, or WCU contests are back in the lineup. I guess that's the one advantage of another bye week.

[FUGameBreaker]

Furman's game notes and two deep. http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/2018_Furman_Game_Notes_-_Stats.pdf

Looks like the Paladins are full steam health-wise. A couple of guys that missed the Elon, ETSU, or WCU contests are back in the lineup. I guess that's the one advantage of another bye week.


Yep looks like everybody for the Dins except for Weems

[PaladinFan]

Haha yep, beat me to it but was about to say the same
Hope will be a stud, hell he already is

When you watch him, it's not that he is just a high motor or just getting lucky. He's really good at the art of rushing the passer.

He has a lot of different moves, is quick off the line, and plays contained and can work over offensive linemen.

I posted this last week, but I'm still impressed by it. WCU's LT is listed at 6'4 285. Hope is 6'1 218. He penetrates, turns the OTs shoulder and then jams his left arm at him and drives him straight backwards into Tyrie Adams. Furman keeps a very elusive QB in the pocket and collapses on him. WCU had five men in the formation and Adams had zero time to find any of them. Textbook.

It's not THAT he lodged a sack, but to shove man 3 inches taller and 60+ pounds heavier than you are straight backward is just a really impressive display of power and explosiveness. For the life of me it looks like he bench presses the man with just his left arm.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1046107996630200320

[hoidOfYolen]

When you watch him, it's not that he is just a high motor or just getting lucky. He's really good at the art of rushing the passer.

He has a lot of different moves, is quick off the line, and plays contained and can work over offensive linemen.

I posted this last week, but I'm still impressed by it. WCU's LT is listed at 6'4 285. Hope is 6'1 218. He penetrates, turns the OTs shoulder and then jams his left arm at him and drives him straight backwards into Tyrie Adams. Furman keeps a very elusive QB in the pocket and collapses on him. WCU had five men in the formation and Adams had zero time to find any of them. Textbook.

It's not THAT he lodged a sack, but to shove man 3 inches taller and 60+ pounds heavier than you are straight backward is just a really impressive display of power and explosiveness. For the life of me it looks like he bench presses the man with just his left arm.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1046107996630200320

Yes I would like to Subscribe to SackFacts please ty

[ElCid]

Didn't mention that Wofford's opponents are a combined 8-19.

In fact, Wofford has played one team with a winning record - UTC. UTC's 4 wins are against teams with a combined 4-16 record.

As I noted on the other thread, Furman's four opponents are 18-4.

So, yes. They've looked really stout against bad teams, which is how good teams typically look.

Well y'all will not help that stat much now will you? What's your point? Also, I'm thinking we are not a "bad" team as you describe the yap dog's wins. G-W is bad. We are not real good so far. Bad record? Sure. On the other hand, Furman has not exactly looked great against the 2 very good team you faced. You looked eh against the bad and ok teams, with good records, that you faced. Ws and Ls. Everything else is subjective.

[FCSfan]

Well y'all will not help that stat much now will you? What's your point? Also, I'm thinking we are not a "bad" team as you describe the yap dog's wins. G-W is bad. We are not real good so far. Bad record? Sure. On the other hand, Furman has not exactly looked great against the 2 very good team you faced. You looked eh against the bad and ok teams, with good records, that you faced. Ws and Ls. Everything else is subjective.
__________________________________________________ _________

This is a valid point.
I don't have a dog (or Paladin) in this fight but all I am reading is that Wofford has won big against non-winning teams and Furman has lost big to 2 really good teams, blew the win against ETSU and missed the opportunity to play a good Colgate team.
Aren't you suppose to beat bad teams convincingly?
Isn't it about wins and losses no matter the scenarios and/or excuses?

[PaladinFan]

__________________________________________________ _________

This is a valid point.
I don't have a dog (or Paladin) in this fight but all I am reading is that Wofford has won big against non-winning teams and Furman has lost big to 2 really good teams, blew the win against ETSU and missed the opportunity to play a good Colgate team.
Aren't you suppose to beat bad teams convincingly?
Isn't it about wins and losses no matter the scenarios and/or excuses?

This pretty much sums it up.

My memory is hazy at this point, but I think the last time Wofford came to Greenville this highly ranked they went home losers.

Edit: First guess (memory not as hazy as I thought). 2011. Bruce Fowler's first season.

[PaladinFan]

Not sure what effect, if any, this will have, but Hurricane/Tropical Storm Michael is expected to dump some rain on the upstate mid-week.

Shouldn't effect the game Saturday, but may effect mid-week prep if the teams are forced indoors.

[Reign of Terrier]

I tend not to put much stock in "who have you beaten this year???" so early in the season.

Unless you're in an absolutely huge conference like the CAA or Big Sky, or a conference that plays at a high level like the MVFC, most teams aren't going to know their quality wins until late October or early November. If your conference is on the level of the MVFC, every win is a good win. If you're in a big conference like the Big Sky or CAA, 1/3 of the conference is going to be really good, 1/3 kinda garbage, and 1/3 respectable. But you really don't know who the respectable teams are and who the garbage teams are until week 8 or so, when the teams with 2-3 losses are on a roll and still in competition for the playoffs.

In most conferences, half of the teams are at .500 in conference play or worse, and the other half above that number. With FBS games and weak OOC like the Socon has, it's extremely likely that no team would have a stellar resume right now that wasn't transitively less impressive. Put another way, if the Citadel beat Wofford and played and beat CSU, they'd be sitting at 3-2 right now and we woul have a better opinion of both them and Chattanooga. If Chattanooga edges ETSU, we have a better outlook on the Citadel, Wofford, and Chattanooga right now.

We have this conversation every year. Team x is overrated because they haven't played anybody...until they do. It's not often that we see teams start 4-1 or 5-1 or better and just collapse. They may lose a game or two, sure, but there aren't many examples of those teams absolutely choking, at least in conference competition. That's why I put value in teams that take care of business in front of them. Take Colgate for example. They haven't beaten anyone notable, but they are undefeated and their defense is TOUGH.

Take Wofford in 2016 for example. The only team we beat with a winning record during the regular season was 6-5 Mercer and an 8-3 Chattanooga. But we looked good in the games we played and lost. And then we won 2 games in the playoffs and were double OT away from the semis.

Same goes for ETSU this year. I do think they have flaws more so than aforementioned teams, but crazier things have happened and I don't really see "they haven't beaten anybody" to be a valid criticism of how good they are. They're beating the teams in front of them and that's all you can ask of them /rant

[PaladinFan]

I tend not to put much stock in "who have you beaten this year???" so early in the season.

Unless you're in an absolutely huge conference like the CAA or Big Sky, or a conference that plays at a high level like the MVFC, most teams aren't going to know their quality wins until late October or early November. If your conference is on the level of the MVFC, every win is a good win. If you're in a big conference like the Big Sky or CAA, 1/3 of the conference is going to be really good, 1/3 kinda garbage, and 1/3 respectable. But you really don't know who the respectable teams are and who the garbage teams are until week 8 or so, when the teams with 2-3 losses are on a roll and still in competition for the playoffs.

In most conferences, half of the teams are at .500 in conference play or worse, and the other half above that number. With FBS games and weak OOC like the Socon has, it's extremely likely that no team would have a stellar resume right now that wasn't transitively less impressive. Put another way, if the Citadel beat Wofford and played and beat CSU, they'd be sitting at 3-2 right now and we woul have a better opinion of both them and Chattanooga. If Chattanooga edges ETSU, we have a better outlook on the Citadel, Wofford, and Chattanooga right now.

We have this conversation every year. Team x is overrated because they haven't played anybody...until they do. It's not often that we see teams start 4-1 or 5-1 or better and just collapse. They may lose a game or two, sure, but there aren't many examples of those teams absolutely choking, at least in conference competition. That's why I put value in teams that take care of business in front of them. Take Colgate for example. They haven't beaten anyone notable, but they are undefeated and their defense is TOUGH.

Take Wofford in 2016 for example. The only team we beat with a winning record during the regular season was 6-5 Mercer and an 8-3 Chattanooga. But we looked good in the games we played and lost. And then we won 2 games in the playoffs and were double OT away from the semis.

Same goes for ETSU this year. I do think they have flaws more so than aforementioned teams, but crazier things have happened and I don't really see "they haven't beaten anybody" to be a valid criticism of how good they are. They're beating the teams in front of them and that's all you can ask of them /rant

Speaking for me, I'm not making the argument that "Team X" is overrated because of their schedule.

I'm only noting that Wofford's statistics look a lot better than Furman's. Some of that is because Wofford may well be a better team. At least some part of that is because Wofford hasn't faced as good of teams as Furman has. The numbers may well look different if Furman had played Wyoming and Gardner Webb and Wofford played Clemson and Elon.

So, no. I'm not suggesting that Wofford is overrated. I'm just suggesting that "on paper" these two teams look like a mismatch, but in reality probably aren't.

[Reign of Terrier]

This pretty much sums it up.

My memory is hazy at this point, but I think the last time Wofford came to Greenville this highly ranked they went home losers.

Edit: First guess (memory not as hazy as I thought). 2011. Bruce Fowler's first season.

correct. I was there. Furman had a strong power run team that year. Would have made the playoffs had they not choked against Elon. Wofford doesn't historically play well in Greenville, but a lot of that has to do with being not-good those years more than Greenville itself. Then again, Furman has not been the team in the last 10 years it was even 13 years ago.

Ranked wofford is 2-1 in Greenville I think (2003, 2007 we won). "playoff Wofford" is 3-1.

[PaladinFan]

correct. I was there. Furman had a strong power run team that year. Would have made the playoffs had they not choked against Elon. Wofford doesn't historically play well in Greenville, but a lot of that has to do with being not-good those years more than Greenville itself. Then again, Furman has not been the team in the last 10 years it was even 13 years ago.

Ranked wofford is 2-1 in Greenville I think (2003, 2007 we won). "playoff Wofford" is 3-1.

Oddly enough, I think the 2011 team is probably the closest offensive comp to what Furman is doing this season (well, since the late 90s).

That game sticks out to me because Mike Ayers seemed so concerned with Furman throwing a home run ball to Colin Anderson (Furman's standout TE) that he kept both safeties deep late in the game. While trying to avoid Furman's haymaker, the Paladins were content to just churn up the clock on the ground with Jerodis Williams and Hank McCloud.

[gofurman]

correct. I was there. Furman had a strong power run team that year. Would have made the playoffs had they not choked against Elon. Wofford doesn't historically play well in Greenville, but a lot of that has to do with being not-good those years more than Greenville itself. Then again, Furman has not been the team in the last 10 years it was even 13 years ago.

Ranked wofford is 2-1 in Greenville I think (2003, 2007 we won). "playoff Wofford" is 3-1.


yep -
quite the trend:

HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE... The home team has won 10 of the last 11games in the Furman-Wofford series, with the only interruption coming in2016 when Wofford posted a 34-27 victory in Paladin Stadium

also (just worthless trivia but you can see the diff home field makes) :
Greenville: FUR leads 33-11-5 in Spartanburg: WOF leads 21-20-2

[FUBeAR]

I'm just suggesting that "on paper" these two teams look like a mismatch, but in reality probably aren't.Very close to the point I just made on the GOTW thread to justify my “Other” vote for the Wofford @ FU game. To be honest, I have Wofford at #3 in my AGS Poll (behind NDSU & EWU) & I will have Furman ranked in the bottom half of the SoCon when I do my PowerPoll, but I think this game is an absolute toss-up.

[PaladinFan]

Very close to the point I just made on the GOTW thread to justify my “Other” vote for the Wofford @ FU game. To be honest, I have Wofford at #3 in my AGS Poll (behind NDSU & EWU) & I will have Furman ranked in the bottom half of the SoCon when I do my PowerPoll, but I think this game is an absolute toss-up.

If you have Wofford over Elon, you must be seeing something I'm not.

[FUBeAR]

yep -
quite the trend:

HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE... The home team has won 10 of the last 11games in the Furman-Wofford series, with the only interruption coming in2016 when Wofford posted a 34-27 victory in Paladin Stadium

also (just worthless trivia but you can see the diff home field makes) :
Greenville: FUR leads 33-11-5 in Spartanburg: WOF leads 21-20-2I may be ‘misremembering,’ but if I’m not mistaken, didn’t Woffy have a fumbled pitch in that 2016 game that most likely would have turned the tide if FU had recovered, but instead it turned the Paladin Defenders’ pursuit angles & then the dang ball jumped straight back into the hands of the Woffy RB, who scored on the play?

That oblong spheroid can do some funny things when it hits the ground.

Furman is due to have ALL the bounces go our way this go-round. FUBeAR decrees it!

[FUBeAR]

If you have Wofford over Elon, you must be seeing something I'm not.
I have E*Loan at #4, just behind the PorchYappers..so, maybe 20/25 relative to your perfect visual acuity.

[FCSfan]

yep -
quite the trend:

HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE... The home team has won 10 of the last 11games in the Furman-Wofford series, with the only interruption coming in2016 when Wofford posted a 34-27 victory in Paladin Stadium

also (just worthless trivia but you can see the diff home field makes) :
Greenville: FUR leads 33-11-5 in Spartanburg: WOF leads 21-20-2
______________________________________________

Interested to know what the series record is since Wofford joined the SoCon (I am too lazy to google it)
I know they have played a good deal but weren't many of those when Wofford was NAIA/NCAA Div. II?
Furman has been in the SoCon since when?

[FUBeAR]

Furman has been in the SoCon since when?Since Methuselah was a Redshirt Freshman

[gofurman]

______________________________________________

Interested to know what the series record is since Wofford joined the SoCon (I am too lazy to google it)
I know they have played a good deal but weren't many of those when Wofford was NAIA/NCAA Div. II?
Furman has been in the SoCon since when?


Yes, Woff was D2 etc.

I think FU joined in 1936.

Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997

Since that time, 1997, here is the record (W being FURMAN WIN:

1997.. W....28-7..........GREENVILLE
1998...L....20-40........ Spartanburg
1999.. W....30-3..........GREENVILLE
2000.. W...27-18........Spartanburg
2001.. W...45-14.........GREENVILLE (Furman was in the National Title game this year.. lost to Montana 13-6 in TITLE Game)
2002.. W...23-21........Spartanburg
2003...L......6-7...........GREENVILLE
2004.. W...31-24........Spartanburg
2005.. W...34-21.........GREENVILLE
2006.. W...35-21........Spartanburg
2007...L....20-45.........GREENVILLE
2008...L....10-35........Spartanburg
2009.. W...58-21.........GREENVILLE
2010...L....17-38........Spartanburg
2011.. W...26-21.........GREENVILLE
2012...L....17-20........Spartanburg
2013.. W...27-14.........GREENVILLE
2014.. W...31-14.........GREENVILLE
2015...L....28-38........Spartanburg
2016...L....27-34.........GREENVILLE
2017...L....23-24........Spartanburg
2017 L....10-28........Spartanburg (playoffs)

It appears FU is ahead 12-10 since Woff joined the SoCon

[Reign of Terrier]

______________________________________________

Interested to know what the series record is since Wofford joined the SoCon (I am too lazy to google it)
I know they have played a good deal but weren't many of those when Wofford was NAIA/NCAA Div. II?
Furman has been in the SoCon since when?On the top of my head, I wanna say we beat Furman no more than twice (probably just once, if that) while in the socon since 2003. Since 2003, I wanna say Wofford has won 9 of 16 including 8 of the last 12.

I think we're in a new era right now. Furman was consistently good until mid 2005 or (8ish years); Wofford was decent between 2002-2004, but only beat them once in that time. Wofford was good and Furman was on average better than Furman between 2007 and 2012. Wofford was bad 2013-2015, and Furman made the playoffs one year and failed epically the next two.

I'd say 2017 to present is a brave New world, especially with Hendrix and Conklin at the helm

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[gofurman]

On the top of my head, I wanna say we beat Furman no more than twice (probably just once, if that) while in the socon since 2003. Since 2003, I wanna say Wofford has won 9 of 16 including 8 of the last 12.

I think we're in a new era right now. Furman was consistently good until mid 2005 or (8ish years); Wofford was decent between 2002-2004, but only beat them once in that time. Wofford was good and Furman was on average better than Furman between 2007 and 2012. Wofford was bad 2013-2015, and Furman made the playoffs one year and failed epically the next two.

I'd say 2017 to present is a brave New world, especially with Hendrix and Conklin at the helm

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Facts is Facts:

Yes, Woff was D2 etc.

I think FU joined in 1936.

Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997

Since that time, 1997, here is the record (W being FURMAN WIN:

1997.. W....28-7..........GREENVILLE
1998...L....20-40........ Spartanburg
1999.. W....30-3..........GREENVILLE
2000.. W...27-18........Spartanburg
2001.. W...45-14.........GREENVILLE (Furman was in the National Title game this year.. lost to Montana 13-6 in TITLE Game)
2002.. W...23-21........Spartanburg
2003...L......6-7...........GREENVILLE
2004.. W...31-24........Spartanburg
2005.. W...34-21.........GREENVILLE
2006.. W...35-21........Spartanburg
2007...L....20-45.........GREENVILLE
2008...L....10-35........Spartanburg
2009.. W...58-21.........GREENVILLE
2010...L....17-38........Spartanburg
2011.. W...26-21.........GREENVILLE
2012...L....17-20........Spartanburg
2013.. W...27-14.........GREENVILLE
2014.. W...31-14.........GREENVILLE
2015...L....28-38........Spartanburg
2016...L....27-34.........GREENVILLE
2017...L....23-24........Spartanburg
2017 L....10-28........Spartanburg (playoffs)

It appears FU is ahead 12-10 since Woff joined the SoCon

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you are right. new era now.. we will see over next few years. I see it as three eras:

basically 1997-2005 Furman led by a large margin 7 games to 2...
2006 - 2013 was a draw of 4 wins a piece
2014 to Present Wofford leads 4-1 (I am certainly counting the playoff encounter)

2018 to ??? - Hendrix v Conklin

[FCSfan]

Yes, Woff was D2 etc.

I think FU joined in 1936.

Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997

Since that time, 1997, here is the record (W being FURMAN WIN:

1997.. W....28-7..........GREENVILLE
1998...L....20-40........ Spartanburg
1999.. W....30-3..........GREENVILLE
2000.. W...27-18........Spartanburg
2001.. W...45-14.........GREENVILLE (Furman was in the National Title game this year.. lost to Montana 13-6 in TITLE Game)
2002.. W...23-21........Spartanburg
2003...L......6-7...........GREENVILLE
2004.. W...31-24........Spartanburg
2005.. W...34-21.........GREENVILLE
2006.. W...35-21........Spartanburg
2007...L....20-45.........GREENVILLE
2008...L....10-35........Spartanburg
2009.. W...58-21.........GREENVILLE
2010...L....17-38........Spartanburg
2011.. W...26-21.........GREENVILLE
2012...L....17-20........Spartanburg
2013.. W...27-14.........GREENVILLE
2014.. W...31-14.........GREENVILLE
2015...L....28-38........Spartanburg
2016...L....27-34.........GREENVILLE
2017...L....23-24........Spartanburg
2017 L....10-28........Spartanburg (playoffs)

It appears FU is ahead 12-10 since Woff joined the SoCon
__________________________________________________ __________________

Competitive series......rivalry of sorts some may say?????

[Reign of Terrier]

If Furman fans think the citadel is a rival, they logically must also think Wofford is a rival because the series is closer.


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[ElCid]

Since Methuselah was a Redshirt Freshman

Beat me to it.

[gofurman]

I may be ‘misremembering,’ but if I’m not mistaken, didn’t Woffy have a fumbled pitch in that 2016 game that most likely would have turned the tide if FU had recovered, but instead it turned the Paladin Defenders’ pursuit angles & then the dang ball jumped straight back into the hands of the Woffy RB, who scored on the play?

That oblong spheroid can do some funny things when it hits the ground.

Furman is due to have ALL the bounces go our way this go-round. FUBeAR decrees it!

Yes there was such a play. Wofford fumbled and all the FU tacklers went for the ball... Which then bounced right back to the guy who fumbled and since the tacklers had gone for the ball instead of the man ( rightfully so ). The woff guy just walked into the end zone. Don't know the year. It was at Furman though

[SU DOG]

Very close to the point I just made on the GOTW thread to justify my “Other” vote for the Wofford @ FU game. To be honest, I have Wofford at #3 in my AGS Poll (behind NDSU & EWU) & I will have Furman ranked in the bottom half of the SoCon when I do my PowerPoll, but I think this game is an absolute toss-up.

I have Elon at #5 and Wofford at #6. I think the Terriers take Furman, but the bookies have it as only a 7 point margin.

[FUBeAR]

Yes there was such a play. Wofford fumbled and all the FU tacklers went for the ball... Which then bounced right back to the guy who fumbled and since the tacklers had gone for the ball instead of the man ( rightfully so ). The woff guy just walked into the end zone. Don't know the year. It was at Furman though
I know it was in Paladin Stadium and I know FU lost...and in 2007 my Saturday's were occupied watching HS Film from Friday nights game...and in 2003 my Saturdays were occupied Coaching a 100 lb Rec Team, so it HAD to be 2016.

It made me very sad. Please don't make FUBeAR sad again!

[PaladinFan]

I know it was in Paladin Stadium and I know FU lost...and in 2007 my Saturday's were occupied watching HS Film from Friday nights game...and in 2003 my Saturdays were occupied Coaching a 100 lb Rec Team, so it HAD to be 2016.

It made me very sad. Please don't make FUBeAR sad again!

2003 ended - again, memory - something like 7-6. Furman lined up for a Danny Marshall game winning kick and fumbled the snap.

This is also where I note that 2003 might have been the best SoCon defense I've ever seen supported by one of the worst SoCon offenses I've ever seen. If the offense was just "mediocre" instead of "crappy" the Paladins probably play for a national title that year.

Furman lost three games that year (App, the Citadel, and Wofford) despite surrendering an average of 10 points in those contests. No team managed 30 points against that defense, and only 3 (Clemson, Georgia Southern, and UTC (in mop up time in a 40 point loss)) managed 20.

[PaladinFan]

As I look over special teams numbers, I have to give the edge to the Paladins.

Furman looks to have the better kicker (Grayson Atkins), better kickoff man (Atkins), better kick returner (Bell), and better punt returner (Trapp). They've also blocked a punt and returned a kick six. Bell makes one a bit nervous after his mistake in the ETSU game and fumble against WCU, but he's probably the most electric return man in the league right now.

Wofford may have a slight edge in average per punt, but the two punters are about even in getting the ball inside the 20 and forcing fair catches.

[walliver]

I know it was in Paladin Stadium and I know FU lost...and in 2007 my Saturday's were occupied watching HS Film from Friday nights game...and in 2003 my Saturdays were occupied Coaching a 100 lb Rec Team, so it HAD to be 2016.

It made me very sad. Please don't make FUBeAR sad again!

Wofford specializes in making FUBear sad! Usually twice a year, but three times in 2017.

The long term series record is interesting. For the first few decades, everybody in the South was in the SIAA. After the creation of the NCAA and NAIA, there wan't a lot of difference between the two other than the NAIA allowing freshmen to play. Into the 1970's Wofford played home-and-home with Furman, Western Carolina, and App State. - and even then we complained about the d@mn SoCon refs. It wasn't until the creation of I-AA that clear separation developed between what are now FBS, FCS, and D2 schools. At that time, FU stepped up their game and became nationally competitive while Wofford's program fell off in the NAIA and D2 where we were competing against great athletes who didn't have the grades to play D-I. Wofford moved to I-AA when it became apparent that we could never compete in the academic wasteland of D2 (much less the NAIA).

[Reign of Terrier]

2007.
Yes there was such a play. Wofford fumbled and all the FU tacklers went for the ball... Which then bounced right back to the guy who fumbled and since the tacklers had gone for the ball instead of the man ( rightfully so ). The woff guy just walked into the end zone. Don't know the year. It was at Furman though

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

2007.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkYou are right...

”On third and goal, Kevious Johnson carried the ball, but a fumble was forced by Andrew Thacker. Johnson was able to recover the fumble and run it into the endzone to take a 24-14 lead.”

...and that opened the floodgates in the 2nd half of what was previously a very tight game...resulting in a 45-20 victory for the bad guys. It was a 6:00 PM kickoff, so I was probably able to make it to GVL after breaking down film.

11 years ago & I can still see that @#*&*@ing ball bouncing...and it still makes me sad.

[Reign of Terrier]

You are right...

”On third and goal, Kevious Johnson carried the ball, but a fumble was forced by Andrew Thacker. Johnson was able to recover the fumble and run it into the endzone to take a 24-14 lead.”

...and that opened the floodgates in the 2nd half of what was previously a very tight game...resulting in a 45-20 victory for the bad guys. It was a 6:00 PM kickoff, so I was probably able to make it to GVL after breaking down film.

11 years ago & I can still see that @#*&*@ing ball bouncing...and it still makes me sad.For what it's worth, this wasn't the first time he did it. He did it to the Citadel in 2003 as well.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[World]

Let's go Wofford

go get'em

[PaladinFan]

Watching some of Wofford's contest against UTC, a few things jumped out to me.

1. Wofford gained a lot of yards with Newman just keeping the ball and running to the edge. As best I can tell, UTC's MLB was the man responsible for scraping to the edge to make that tackle, but he wasn't near quick enough and would get caught up in the trash trying to flow to the ball. Wofford, quite intelligently, kept exploiting that mismatch as UTC simply didn't have a linebacker fast enough to run with Newman.

2. UTC seemed to want Wofford to attack them, not the other way around. Defenders tried to string the play to the edge and force Newman to make up his mind. I wonder if Furman, with their athletic edge players, will be more prone to trying to attack Newman in the backfield instead of letting him get a head of steam.

3. Most (all?) of Newman's throws against UTC were basically to the line of scrimmage on quick hitch throws or screens. Those are essentially schemed as running plays. Furman has several big bodied defensive backs (Lemons/Okeh) who might be used as blockade runners when Wofford tries to get outside in the passing game.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Furman shift around defensive looks and try to confuse Wofford's blocking. Furman is a base 3-4, but they have a lot of guys that can play different positions and you may see them move into a 4-3 or a 4-2-5. Furman likes to put Amir Trapp in the slot a good bit. You might see him opposite Okeh/Anoor walking up on the opposite side or one of the OLBs (who are both former safeties) drop away.

Just found a quick example from the WCU game. First down play with WCU trying to run a triple option look. Jordan Willis a safety/OLB has dropped back and gives WCU a 4-3 look. Furman is in man coverage on the short side with Trapp. The two interior DL and ILBs take the dive, the playside DE takes the QB, the OLB/S takes the pitch, the S comes up from the alley to attack the QB. Adams escapes the first tackler but that play was going nowhere.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1046102974236446721

[Reign of Terrier]

Watching some of Wofford's contest against UTC, a few things jumped out to me.

1. Wofford gained a lot of yards with Newman just keeping the ball and running to the edge. As best I can tell, UTC's MLB was the man responsible for scraping to the edge to make that tackle, but he wasn't near quick enough and would get caught up in the trash trying to flow to the ball. Wofford, quite intelligently, kept exploiting that mismatch as UTC simply didn't have a linebacker fast enough to run with Newman.

2. UTC seemed to want Wofford to attack them, not the other way around. Defenders tried to string the play to the edge and force Newman to make up his mind. I wonder if Furman, with their athletic edge players, will be more prone to trying to attack Newman in the backfield instead of letting him get a head of steam.

3. Most (all?) of Newman's throws against UTC were basically to the line of scrimmage on quick hitch throws or screens. Those are essentially schemed as running plays. Furman has several big bodied defensive backs (Lemons/Okeh) who might be used as blockade runners when Wofford tries to get outside in the passing game.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Furman shift around defensive looks and try to confuse Wofford's blocking. Furman is a base 3-4, but they have a lot of guys that can play different positions and you may see them move into a 4-3 or a 4-2-5. Furman likes to put Amir Trapp in the slot a good bit. You might see him opposite Okeh/Anoor walking up on the opposite side or one of the OLBs (who are both former safeties) drop away.

Just found a quick example from the WCU game. First down play with WCU trying to run a triple option look. Jordan Willis a safety/OLB has dropped back and gives WCU a 4-3 look. Furman is in man coverage on the short side with Trapp. The two interior DL and ILBs take the dive, the playside DE takes the QB, the OLB/S takes the pitch, the S comes up from the alley to attack the QB. Adams escapes the first tackler but that play was going nowhere.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1046102974236446721

Alternatively, they could have been trying to take away the pitch and dive because Newman hadn't had a breakout game running the ball this year. Right now we probably have the most complete option we've had in a while, between the dive/QB/pitch/screen/downfield bomb. It's pick your poison, you can't defend all of them. Unlike last year, where we rarely had a downfield threat, Newman has more often overthrown his receivers than underthrown. Meanwhile, Newman is much better running than Goodson.

Wofford is averaging over 7 yards per carry so far this year. It's hard to scheme in general. It's not like when Breitenstein was playing where you could slow down the dive and stop the whole offense.

[FUBeAR]

Alternatively, they could have been trying to take away the pitch and dive because Newman hadn't had a breakout game running the ball this year.
Um....no...assuming Chatt didn’t suddenly appoint a FR trombone player as their DC. Basics of defending the triple option
1) Stop Diveman - if you don’t do this, you might as well not leave the locker room
2) Stop QB - Make him HAVE TO pitch the ball. He may put it on the ground or he may suddenly feel the need to miss a few plays...or the rest of the game.
3) Stop Pitchman - hardest one to stop, but hardest one for them to get the ball to. And, you usually have help from Mr. Sideline

If either of the 1st 2 are not done in that order, it is an unintended consequence resulting from poor execution by Players OR a bad scheme created to execute those basics OR occasionally, vs. a Load option scheme, outstanding blocking by the O / combined with poor execution by the D.

Chatt’s LB’s were too slow and/or too fatigued to execute their plan to force the QB to pitch...and I did see some good...oh, and quite a bit of illegal (now-a-days) Blocking on the Load options on that video. Can’t block low from anywhere but the front of the defenders frame & can’t block low coming from outside in. Saw both of those. I’m sure Coach Staggs will have a thorough pre-game conference with the Officials.

[Reign of Terrier]

Um....no...assuming Chatt didn’t suddenly appoint a FR trombone player as their DC. Basics of defending the triple option
1) Stop Diveman - if you don’t do this, you might as well not leave the locker room
2) Stop QB - Make him HAVE TO pitch the ball. He may put it on the ground or he may suddenly feel the need to miss a few plays...or the rest of the game.
3) Stop Pitchman - hardest one to stop, but hardest one for them to get the ball to. And, you usually have help from Mr. Sideline

If either of the 1st 2 are not done in that order, it is an unintended consequence resulting from poor execution by Players OR a bad scheme created to execute those basics OR occasionally, vs. a Load option scheme, outstanding blocking by the O / combined with poor execution by the D.

Chatt’s LB’s were too slow and/or too fatigued to execute their plan to force the QB to pitch...and I did see some good...oh, and quite a bit of illegal (now-a-days) Blocking on the Load options on that video. Can’t block low from anywhere but the front of the defenders frame & can’t block low coming from outside in. Saw both of those. I’m sure Coach Staggs will have a thorough pre-game conference with the Officials.

Having watched the option every Saturday in the fall for literally 15 years, you can tell when players have been instructed by coaches to force a pitch. On one hand, it seems kind of dumb with a player like Newman who may be the fastest player on the field, but on another, whether or not a player pitches/runs can be a product of habit as much as it is a read. If the QB is in the habit of pitching instead of running, forcing the pitch isn't a bad idea. A lot of times linebackers can be seen on the balls of their feet with the corner on the pitch man with no blocker on either and the QB splits the defender. Joe Newman did this on his TD run against Chattanooga and in the redzone against Gardner Webb.

Now, this may be a mistake on the player's part (not just actively blowing up the QB)or it may be a scheme thing/coaching thing (the formation they're in not putting them in a position to actively attack the QB). All I know is that it's so common that it's an indicator of "Wofford will run over these guys" and it happens with teams of varying athleticism (Chattanooga is top tier in the socon in terms of athleticism).

Now, I'll admit that I don't know as much about the X's and O's of these things, but I don't think Furman will try the same approach as Chattanooga, not just because it didn't work, but because I think Furman is more likely to do a zone look compared to Chattanooga. I think zone defense is better to attack the option on the perimeter because you're covering an area and not a person, so there's less risk with aggression.

[PaladinFan]

Um....no...assuming Chatt didn’t suddenly appoint a FR trombone player as their DC. Basics of defending the triple option
1) Stop Diveman - if you don’t do this, you might as well not leave the locker room
2) Stop QB - Make him HAVE TO pitch the ball. He may put it on the ground or he may suddenly feel the need to miss a few plays...or the rest of the game.
3) Stop Pitchman - hardest one to stop, but hardest one for them to get the ball to. And, you usually have help from Mr. Sideline

If either of the 1st 2 are not done in that order, it is an unintended consequence resulting from poor execution by Players OR a bad scheme created to execute those basics OR occasionally, vs. a Load option scheme, outstanding blocking by the O / combined with poor execution by the D.

Chatt’s LB’s were too slow and/or too fatigued to execute their plan to force the QB to pitch...and I did see some good...oh, and quite a bit of illegal (now-a-days) Blocking on the Load options on that video. Can’t block low from anywhere but the front of the defenders frame & can’t block low coming from outside in. Saw both of those. I’m sure Coach Staggs will have a thorough pre-game conference with the Officials.


Newman did have a long run that was called back on what I assume was a blocking penalty on the new rule.

[PaladinFan]

Having watched the option every Saturday in the fall for literally 15 years, you can tell when players have been instructed by coaches to force a pitch. On one hand, it seems kind of dumb with a player like Newman who may be the fastest player on the field, but on another, whether or not a player pitches/runs can be a product of habit as much as it is a read. If the QB is in the habit of pitching instead of running, forcing the pitch isn't a bad idea. A lot of times linebackers can be seen on the balls of their feet with the corner on the pitch man with no blocker on either and the QB splits the defender. Joe Newman did this on his TD run against Chattanooga and in the redzone against Gardner Webb.

Now, this may be a mistake on the player's part (not just actively blowing up the QB)or it may be a scheme thing/coaching thing (the formation they're in not putting them in a position to actively attack the QB). All I know is that it's so common that it's an indicator of "Wofford will run over these guys" and it happens with teams of varying athleticism (Chattanooga is top tier in the socon in terms of athleticism).

Now, I'll admit that I don't know as much about the X's and O's of these things, but I don't think Furman will try the same approach as Chattanooga, not just because it didn't work, but because I think Furman is more likely to do a zone look compared to Chattanooga. I think zone defense is better to attack the option on the perimeter because you're covering an area and not a person, so there's less risk with aggression.

Furman is a little bit of an odd case. There is probably no team in football that has seen the option attack more than Furman has. Furman has several coaches that are well versed in option principles, including guys from Air Force and Georgia Tech.

[Reign of Terrier]

Newman did have a long run that was called back on what I assume was a blocking penalty on the new rule.

Looking at that now, I think it's at about 1:40 or so, I don't think that one was a good call. The new rule has it where you can't cut block more than 5 yards or so down the field (which is dumb). There's an example of another call in this highlight that I think is a good call at 2:39. Anyway, for the first flag, it was called on an OL about 4 yards down the field (LOS was 17, the block was at the 21). For the second call, it's right at five yards. But neither would be called last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=0s

[PaladinFan]

A couple other observations regarding the offensive matchup with Wofford.

Wofford, as they have historically done, still seems to like playing a softer zone look. They'll send some linebackers every now and again, and their interior defensive linemen are "oversized" run stuffer types.

They looked like they were giving UTC a good bit of room to maneuver underneath. Furman had a lot of success working in a quick passing game the last few weeks, and I will expect they will still try to attack the Terriers by getting rid of the ball quickly.

I think Furman will want to make this a sideline to sideline game and not a contest over who controls the five yards of earth on either side of the center. Terrier DBs will likely give Furman receivers a lot of room and I expect the Paladins to try and get matchups with their speedsters against Wofford linebackers.

[PaladinFan]

Looking at that now, I think it's at about 1:40 or so, I don't think that one was a good call. The new rule has it where you can't cut block more than 5 yards or so down the field (which is dumb). There's an example of another call in this highlight that I think is a good call at 2:39. Anyway, for the first flag, it was called on an OL about 4 yards down the field (LOS was 17, the block was at the 21). For the second call, it's right at five yards. But neither would be called last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=0s

A lot of option coaches hate the rule as it takes away one of their big blocking advantages.

[Reign of Terrier]

A couple other observations regarding the offensive matchup with Wofford.

Wofford, as they have historically done, still seems to like playing a softer zone look. They'll send some linebackers every now and again, and their interior defensive linemen are "oversized" run stuffer types.

They looked like they were giving UTC a good bit of room to maneuver underneath. Furman had a lot of success working in a quick passing game the last few weeks, and I will expect they will still try to attack the Terriers by getting rid of the ball quickly.

I think Furman will want to make this a sideline to sideline game and not a contest over who controls the five yards of earth on either side of the center. Terrier DBs will likely give Furman receivers a lot of room and I expect the Paladins to try and get matchups with their speedsters against Wofford linebackers.

One thing I see from the clip I posted is that Wofford has added some new wrinkles to our defense. One of them is when we only have 2 DL and 5 linebackers on the LOS. it's a zone blitz, but you don't know who's coming. I don't see us using it against the dins that much. We also are running more man coverage, which I like. Conklin/Siefkis are a smart defensive coaches.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also I think the load option is something new for Wofford. We definitely had it in the playbook last year, but one thing you definitely see more this year compared to last is the QB used as a designated runner in a double option (i.e load option look). We didn't use that much with Brandon Goodson, but I wish we did. I think that + TJ Luther as a deep threat in the passing game, and the willingness to go to the screen in the RPOs is what's the difference this year. Because we already knew Stoddard/Newman/McAfee/Morgan were monsters running the ball on the option, but now you have to scheme for all of these other wrinkles.

I'm not joking when I think this is the best offense we have fielded since 2008 or so. We even have more wrinkles than we did then (don't remember Ben Widmyer being used in a load option look, but we definitely used more tight ends in our blocking schemes). You could say Wofford's offense emphasizes more on the perimeter than it has in a long time, which makes you think it's more of a finesse look. But it isn't. Andre Stoddard is still our fullback.

On top of that, our defense has (so far) performed at a higher level too because we're more schemes than we have in a while. I don't think we've played at such a level on both sides of the ball.

Obviously, I'm high/bullish/homering for the Terriers. I don't know if it's Wade Lang finally having unfettered control of the offense with substantive feedback from an experienced defensive coach (basically what Conklin contributes to the Offense), but I have not seen this level of play and balance out of a Wofford team, even against lesser competition. We may have had it in 2010, but even then our defense appears fiercer.

All of this can be disproven if the 'dins beat us this weekend, of course.

[PaladinFan]

One thing I see from the clip I posted is that Wofford has added some new wrinkles to our defense. One of them is when we only have 2 DL and 5 linebackers on the LOS. it's a zone blitz, but you don't know who's coming. I don't see us using it against the dins that much. We also are running more man coverage, which I like. Conklin/Siefkis are a smart defensive coaches.

I doubt we'll see much man coverage against Furman.

Furman is a lot less predictable than UTC. The Mocs throw it a bunch (35 times a game) and 40% of those throws go to one player - Bryce Nunnelly. When they run it, 65% of the time it is Tyrell Price. If not Price, Tiano keeps it. One of the reasons that UTC isn't particularly good offensively is you can largely predict where the ball is going. Double up Nunnelly and keep an eye on Price, and you've eliminated a huge chunk of their offense.

Furman is a different cat. They will distribute the ball a lot more evenly between backs and receivers. UTC's third leading rusher (Trotter) has 12 carries over 6 games. Furman's wide receivers have 9 carries in 4 games.

I think Furman is the best WR group Wofford will have seen. I'm sure the Terrier DBs can handle themselves, though the combo of Gordon, Burnette, and Bell is a pretty tall order. What Wofford does not want to do is get in man coverage against the guys out of the backfield.

Furman moves WRs and RBs in and out of the formation probing for matchups. The risk of man coverage is you get a linebacker on a guy like Morehead or Bell coming out of the backfield.

[FUBeAR]

Looking at that now, I think it's at about 1:40 or so, I don't think that one was a good call. The new rule has it where you can't cut block more than 5 yards or so down the field (which is dumb). There's an example of another call in this highlight that I think is a good call at 2:39. Anyway, for the first flag, it was called on an OL about 4 yards down the field (LOS was 17, the block was at the 21). For the second call, it's right at five yards. But neither would be called last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=0sI don’t like the rule either, but you are looking at the 1:40 one thru TerrierVision. The LB’s right foot is at the 22 when he’s hit by the WC OLman, who ends up sprawled across the 22. 22-17=5 = FLAG. Same as the 2:39 one...45-40=5. In the latter one, the RB may not be between the 10 & 2 of the Defender’s frame either. He could be at about 2:30 on the imaginary clock face. I also saw 2 other possible examples of illegal blocking that were not called just in those highlights.

[FUBeAR]

Having watched the option every Saturday in the fall for literally 15 years, you can tell when players have been instructed by coaches to force a pitch. On one hand, it seems kind of dumb with a player like Newman who may be the fastest player on the field, but on another, whether or not a player pitches/runs can be a product of habit as much as it is a read. If the QB is in the habit of pitching instead of running, forcing the pitch isn't a bad idea. A lot of times linebackers can be seen on the balls of their feet with the corner on the pitch man with no blocker on either and the QB splits the defender. Joe Newman did this on his TD run against Chattanooga and in the redzone against Gardner Webb.

Now, this may be a mistake on the player's part (not just actively blowing up the QB)or it may be a scheme thing/coaching thing (the formation they're in not putting them in a position to actively attack the QB). All I know is that it's so common that it's an indicator of "Wofford will run over these guys" and it happens with teams of varying athleticism (Chattanooga is top tier in the socon in terms of athleticism).

Now, I'll admit that I don't know as much about the X's and O's of these things, but I don't think Furman will try the same approach as Chattanooga, not just because it didn't work, but because I think Furman is more likely to do a zone look compared to Chattanooga. I think zone defense is better to attack the option on the perimeter because you're covering an area and not a person, so there's less risk with aggression.Having played in, as a QB, TE, & and OLman & played against as a SS, LB, and DLman AND Coached in & against the Option since, literally, 1972 (46 years), unless Nick Saban tells me otherwise, I can assure you that SOME Defensive Player is assigned to & desires to force the QB to pitch on EVERY option play that involves a pitch option. Sounds like you are seeing guys run past the QB to the pitch man & think that means they aren’t trying to force the pitch. It doesn’t. It means an LB or a DB has a ‘swapped’ assignment with the EMLOS and he should be along to force the pitch forthwith. Or, you may be seeing someone ‘slow play’ the QB. That’s a newer (though not new) technique designed to have more athletic Defenders not sacrifice themselves to hit the QB & force the pitch...but he still WANTS to force the pitch...and then run to support the other defender assigned to the pitchman.

Also, Load Option doesn’t mean no dive. That’s speed option. Load option means getting an additional blocker (pulling OG or RB/WR) to the playside perimeter to block a (possibly extra) DB rolling down or an Inside LB scraping out, whereas non-Load relies on NOT blocking the last 2 guys on the edge - usually a DE & a LB.

Many different wrinkles to the option & defending it, but a D ALWAYS wants to force the O to have to execute as many components of the option as possible.

And...whether from athletic ability or fatigue Chatt’s ILB’s are nowhere near as fast as Furman’s or Mercer’s Starters in those roles. Not sure about the others Teams in the SoCon, but I know those 4 cats can SCOOT!

[Reign of Terrier]

Having played in, as a QB, TE, & and OLman & played against as a SS, LB, and DLman AND Coached in & against the Option since, literally, 1972 (46 years), unless Nick Saban tells me otherwise, I can assure you that SOME Defensive Player is assigned to & desires to force the QB to pitch on EVERY option play that involves a pitch option. Sounds like you are seeing guys run past the QB to the pitch man & think that means they aren’t trying to force the pitch. It doesn’t. It means an LB or a DB has a ‘swapped’ assignment with the EMLOS and he should be along to force the pitch forthwith. Or, you may be seeing someone ‘slow play’ the QB. That’s a newer (though not new) technique designed to have more athletic Defenders not sacrifice themselves to hit the QB & force the pitch...but he still WANTS to force the pitch...and then run to support the other defender assigned to the pitchman.

Also, Load Option doesn’t mean no dive. That’s speed option. Load option means getting an additional blocker (pulling OG or RB/WR) to the playside perimeter to block a (possibly extra) DB rolling down or an Inside LB scraping out, whereas non-Load relies on NOT blocking the last 2 guys on the edge - usually a DE & a LB.

Many different wrinkles to the option & defending it, but a D ALWAYS wants to force the O to have to execute as many components of the option as possible.

And...whether from athletic ability or fatigue Chatt’s ILB’s are nowhere near as fast as Furman’s or Mercer’s Starters in those roles. Not sure about the others Teams in the SoCon, but I know those 4 cats can SCOOT!

No, I mean you see players just stand there and wait for the QB to make a decision or instead of going for the QB they go for the pitch guy. You can see it on Miller Moseley's 16 yard run in this one. You can blame it on lack of athleticism or the guy missing his assignment, but it's a common thing I've seen Western Carolina, Samford, and others try. It happened at Gardner Webb a couple weeks ago.

As for the load option, in the specific circumstances I'm talking about, it definitely is a double/speed option that we're running that's new. There's no dive option at 1:15 on the play we're running, just a pitch. You see Stoddard go out to block immediately. That, by your definition, is a load option. My point being, we didn't see that much last year, and we've seen something like it multiple times this season with lots of emphasis this past week. Coach Lang wants to give Newman out on the perimeter to keep/pitch with as little reading as possible (not that he's bad at reads, but because he is fast). That's a new look and new threat opposing defenses didn't have to look for last year.

[Reign of Terrier]

I mean, look at number 35 at about 2:20. He's clearly the guy who's supposed to attack the QB...but he's not. He's waiting on him to make a decision when he should be lighting him up. That didn't look like lack of speed, that looks like a conscious strategy or bad coaching. Because if you tell him to attack and he misses the tackle, he's forced the QB to commit which frees up the pitch defender.

Now, if you look at Newman's 65 yard run, #1 makes a move to the pitch man instead of Newman, which ultimately costs him a tackle and points (6:00). Looks like he's the guy who's supposed to have the pitch man, but the mere fact that ILB (presumably the guy who was supposed to have the QB) bit the fullback fake suggests it's not as set in stone as it could be. Maybe that's the player's incompetence, maybe that's deliberative scheme, but at the very least the effectiveness of the Terrier's TO has an effect of causing players to make bad decisions with their assignments (it's almost as if that's the point of the TO or something???)

I'm not saying you're not right in that having a guy focus on lighting up the QB is probably the best decision, but I am saying that there are lots of examples of this through the hours of footage of watching Wofford football. Either teams are deliberately scheming to force the QB to run (an effective strategy against Brandon Goodson or Brad Butler tbh) or the effectiveness of the option is making players second guess their assignments. Both can be true at any given time, I've just seen too many QBs split defenders to think "there's a designated guy to hit the QB every play" is their strategy.

Conversely, if you have a strong QB who can run the ball but not pitch, you see defenders making a conscious effort to not give a crap about the pitch man because he won't be used. That's basically how people defended us from 2011 to 2015.

[FUBeAR]

No, I mean you see players just stand there and wait for the QB to make a decision or instead of going for the QB they go for the pitch guy. You can see it on Miller Moseley's 16 yard run in this one. You can blame it on lack of athleticism or the guy missing his assignment, but it's a common thing I've seen Western Carolina, Samford, and others try. It happened at Gardner Webb a couple weeks ago.

As for the load option, in the specific circumstances I'm talking about, it definitely is a double/speed option that we're running that's new. There's no dive option at 1:15 on the play we're running, just a pitch. You see Stoddard go out to block immediately. That, by your definition, is a load option. My point being, we didn't see that much last year, and we've seen something like it multiple times this season with lots of emphasis this past week. Coach Lang wants to give Newman out on the perimeter to keep/pitch with as little reading as possible (not that he's bad at reads, but because he is fast). That's a new look and new threat opposing defenses didn't have to look for last year.
LOL - Those 2 Chatt Players weren’t standing around waiting for Moseley to make a decision. The OLB (probably) had Pitch and the ILB (probably) had QB, but this is actually a triple-loaded counter-Option. The fake dive is to the side away from the play, but it’s a pre-determined “no-give” which allows the FB to bend back playside & get in on the action as the “triple load.” I believe that’s also the b/s OG pulling & the TE/H-Back getting in on the ‘fun.’ The counter part of this gives them time & ‘freedom’ to do that. So whichever of those Chatt guys had QB ‘force’ (probably the ILB) gets completely ‘caught in the wash’ of those 3 lead blockers. While there is a pitch option, the design of this play will almost always result in a QB run unless that OLB blows up the blockers and/or Chatt’s RDE doesn’t get completely BURIED inside, as he did or the ILB recognizes his job is no longer ‘force QB,’ but is now ‘sacrifice myself to “eat” lead blockers.’ Since the OLB (probably) had pitch, he couldn’t hang in to blow up the blockers & it was up to the ILB to do that, so the b/s LB & SS could tackle the QB...but he just gets washed/runs by (execution error) & the b/s LB is getting held & doesn’t look particularly athletic or interested in pursuing anyway...and the SS takes a bad angle. When I talk about Chatt’s D being undisciplined, this is what I mean. Only the OLB over there did his job (probably) while 3 or 4 others were ‘freelancing’ trying to make the tackle instead of doing THEIR job. This is a nice concept by Woffy & well-executed, but as is my original ‘claim,’ someone was supposed to force the QB to pitch...until he arrived with a 3-man escort.

On the other play...yep, that a Speed Load Option. Speed doesn’t have to include or exclude Load, nor does a traditional “triple” (includes a dive option) have to exclude Load, but it is not a Speed option if it includes the dive component. Make sense?

Wofford has run a good bit of Load Option in years past, but not a lot of Speed or Speed Load Option.

[Reign of Terrier]

LOL - Those 2 Chatt Players weren’t standing around waiting for Moseley to make a decision. The OLB (probably) had Pitch and the ILB (probably) had QB, but this is actually a triple-loaded counter-Option. The fake dive is to the side away from the play, but it’s a pre-determined “no-give” which allows the FB to bend back playside & get in on the action as the “triple load.” I believe that’s also the b/s OG pulling & the TE/H-Back getting in on the ‘fun.’ The counter part of this gives them time & ‘freedom’ to do that. So whichever of those Chatt guys had QB ‘force’ (probably the ILB) gets completely ‘caught in the wash’ of those 3 lead blockers. While there is a pitch option, the design of this play will almost always result in a QB run unless that OLB blows up the blockers and/or Chatt’s RDE doesn’t get completely BURIED inside, as he did or the ILB recognizes his job is no longer ‘force QB,’ but is now ‘sacrifice myself to “eat” lead blockers.’ Since the OLB (probably) had pitch, he couldn’t hang in to blow up the blockers & it was up to the ILB to do that, so the b/s LB & SS could tackle the QB...but he just gets washed/runs by (execution error) & the b/s LB is getting held & doesn’t look particularly athletic or interested in pursuing anyway...and the SS takes a bad angle. When I talk about Chatt’s D being undisciplined, this is what I mean. Only the OLB over there did his job (probably) while 3 or 4 others were ‘freelancing’ trying to make the tackle instead of doing THEIR job. This is a nice concept by Woffy & well-executed, but as is my original ‘claim,’ someone was supposed to force the QB to pitch...until he arrived with a 3-man escort.

On the other play...yep, that a Speed Load Option. Speed doesn’t have to include or exclude Load, nor does a traditional “triple” (includes a dive option) have to exclude Load, but it is not a Speed option if it includes the dive component. Make sense?

Wofford has run a good bit of Load Option in years past, but not a lot of Speed or Speed Load Option.

I take what you're saying to be true in your first paragraph on face value but I'm honestly gonna need charts to comprehend it.

[FUBeAR]

I mean, look at number 35 at about 2:20. He's clearly the guy who's supposed to attack the QB...but he's not. He's waiting on him to make a decision when he should be lighting him up. That didn't look like lack of speed, that looks like a conscious strategy or bad coaching. Because if you tell him to attack and he misses the tackle, he's forced the QB to commit which frees up the pitch defender.

Now, if you look at Newman's 65 yard run, #1 makes a move to the pitch man instead of Newman, which ultimately costs him a tackle and points (6:00). Looks like he's the guy who's supposed to have the pitch man, but the mere fact that ILB (presumably the guy who was supposed to have the QB) bit the fullback fake suggests it's not as set in stone as it could be. Maybe that's the player's incompetence, maybe that's deliberative scheme, but at the very least the effectiveness of the Terrier's TO has an effect of causing players to make bad decisions with their assignments (it's almost as if that's the point of the TO or something???)

I'm not saying you're not right in that having a guy focus on lighting up the QB is probably the best decision, but I am saying that there are lots of examples of this through the hours of footage of watching Wofford football. Either teams are deliberately scheming to force the QB to run (an effective strategy against Brandon Goodson or Brad Butler tbh) or the effectiveness of the option is making players second guess their assignments. Both can be true at any given time, I've just seen too many QBs split defenders to think "there's a designated guy to hit the QB every play" is their strategy.

Conversely, if you have a strong QB who can run the ball but not pitch, you see defenders making a conscious effort to not give a crap about the pitch man because he won't be used. That's basically how people defended us from 2011 to 2015.I can’t do all of these, but in the 2:20 example, the OLB is Slow-Playing the QB. He want him to pitch & he did his job almost as well as he could, but the SS, who has pitch...but also needs to maintain outside leverage on the Lead (Load) blocker in order to turn the RB back into the formerly QB Slow-Playing OLB, who, by design, has NOT sacrificed himself by tackling the QB. Look how hard the Wofford Lead Blocking RB is fighting to get that outside leverage...so that the ballcarrier can go outside his block & the OLB can’t make the tackle. The WR is doing the same thing to the CB...and both Chatt DB’s get whipped.

All of this is WHY I LOVE the option. But, to the original point...On D...Stop Dive (if there is one), Force QB, Tackle Pitch...in that order...and ‘care’ about stopping them in that order. All D’s want all pitch option Teams to pitch on every option play. There’s a designated guy to force the QB to pitch on every pitch option play. Really, there is. Ain’t no DC designing a D that passes up stopping the 1st option 1st, the 2nd option 2nd, and so on based on the opponents’ personnel. If they did, they wouldn’t be called Coach much longer.


Edit: I’m an addicted masochist. On Newman’s long run the guy who had QB Force is the tall (sort of gawky...betting he’s young, but I can’t see his number) OLB playside. When the OT blocks inside, he squeezes as he should...but you see he doesn’t dive down in there on the dive back...because he knows he has QB, but he sees the Load Blocker coming at him and makes the classic young Players’ mistake of failing to keep his pads parallel/“square to” the LOS. So, he’s now facing the blocker, who arcs around him (because the blocker knows the QB can “block” him by pitching the ball, if needed) and goes to seal the FS, which enables a 65 yard run. Back to our QB Force man...he’s in a world of hurt because he’s a 6’3 or 6’4” not particularly fast Front 7 player, who’s committed a ‘sin’ by flat-footedly facing a 5’10” water bug...who simply runs around him & goes for 6. Pads square, feet moving, low center of gravity...and he coulda forced a pitch as he was supposed to do. #1 has Pitch...and was in great position to make that play...pads square, feet moving, low center of gravity. It’s SCIENCE!!

[PaladinFan]

As a former edge player in high school, I used to relish “eating” lead blockers.

I’m sure some guys are beast enough to just throw a forearm out and stop a freight train. I was not one of those players. When you see two guards and a fullback heading your way, it’s time to accept the fact that you aren’t going to be making this tackle, and the best thing you can do is pick the collision point and create a road block.

[SU FAN]

Guess I should be pulling for the Paladins here ay

[gofurman]

I take what you're saying to be true in your first paragraph on face value but I'm honestly gonna need charts to comprehend it.

Yep.. for all of FUBeAR's give and take - the dude KNOWS of what he speaks. He may be pulling for Furman (he is). But he can flat-out analyze a football game. I have to read his stuff twice often times.. lol

[PaladinFan]

Guess I should be pulling for the Paladins here ay

I think everyone who isn't Wofford needs to be pulling for Furman.

There are two undefeated teams in conference play - Wofford and ETSU. Those two still have to play one another, guaranteeing that one will take a loss. I think there's a far greater likelihood of Wofford running the table than ETSU, so anyone who has an interest in the autobid needs to hope Wofford picks up another loss somewhere.

[PaladinFan]

Since we are on the subject of the Wofford/UTC game - check out the run by Price at the 4:05 mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=245s).

I think Jireh Wilson is a good defensive player, but he was straight up trucked on that run. He had a five yard running head start and still got thrown backwards.

[FUBeAR]

Since we are on the subject of the Wofford/UTC game - check out the run by Price at the 4:05 mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=245s).

I think Jireh Wilson is a good defensive player, but he was straight up trucked on that run. He had a five yard running head start and still got thrown backwards.

LOW MAN WINS!

https://i.postimg.cc/G2z9r8jv/jirehtrucked.jpg

We try to tell 'em PF, but you know how young people are these days...:)

[Reign of Terrier]

I think everyone who isn't Wofford needs to be pulling for Furman.

There are two undefeated teams in conference play - Wofford and ETSU. Those two still have to play one another, guaranteeing that one will take a loss. I think there's a far greater likelihood of Wofford running the table than ETSU, so anyone who has an interest in the autobid needs to hope Wofford picks up another loss somewhere.It's also sort of a tautology, but if Wofford wins our next 3 games, with the way the socon is beating itself up, it's all but clinched a share of the socon title. That may not translate to an autobid but we will definitely beat Presbyterian in such a scenario and make the playoffs at 8-3.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

I can’t do all of these, but in the 2:20 example, the OLB is Slow-Playing the QB. He want him to pitch & he did his job almost as well as he could, but the SS, who has pitch...but also needs to maintain outside leverage on the Lead (Load) blocker in order to turn the RB back into the formerly QB Slow-Playing OLB, who, by design, has NOT sacrificed himself by tackling the QB. Look how hard the Wofford Lead Blocking RB is fighting to get that outside leverage...so that the ballcarrier can go outside his block & the OLB can’t make the tackle. The WR is doing the same thing to the CB...and both Chatt DB’s get whipped.

All of this is WHY I LOVE the option. But, to the original point...On D...Stop Dive (if there is one), Force QB, Tackle Pitch...in that order...and ‘care’ about stopping them in that order. All D’s want all pitch option Teams to pitch on every option play. There’s a designated guy to force the QB to pitch on every pitch option play. Really, there is. Ain’t no DC designing a D that passes up stopping the 1st option 1st, the 2nd option 2nd, and so on based on the opponents’ personnel. If they did, they wouldn’t be called Coach much longer.


Edit: I’m an addicted masochist. On Newman’s long run the guy who had QB Force is the tall (sort of gawky...betting he’s young, but I can’t see his number) OLB playside. When the OT blocks inside, he squeezes as he should...but you see he doesn’t dive down in there on the dive back...because he knows he has QB, but he sees the Load Blocker coming at him and makes the classic young Players’ mistake of failing to keep his pads parallel/“square to” the LOS. So, he’s now facing the blocker, who arcs around him (because the blocker knows the QB can “block” him by pitching the ball, if needed) and goes to seal the FS, which enables a 65 yard run. Back to our QB Force man...he’s in a world of hurt because he’s a 6’3 or 6’4” not particularly fast Front 7 player, who’s committed a ‘sin’ by flat-footedly facing a 5’10” water bug...who simply runs around him & goes for 6. Pads square, feet moving, low center of gravity...and he coulda forced a pitch as he was supposed to do. #1 has Pitch...and was in great position to make that play...pads square, feet moving, low center of gravity. It’s SCIENCE!!

Another interesting example is at 4:30, I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=245s

I am finding it hard to figure out what UTC is doing on that play. They are in a bit of a unique defensive alignment with two down linemen and a MLB. I count 6 defensive backs.

Off the snap, the DE/OLB, #35, goes immediately for the dive (probably wrongly). The MLB attacks the dive and then tries to get to the corner to beat Newman, which he is ill-equipped to do. I saw this a few times with UTC, where their backside pursuit isn't fast enough for Wofford's backfield.

I'm curious about the play-side safety. He comes up and looks like he may have the QB, but never really attacks the play. He hangs back, lets the blocking come to him, and then starts running backward.

Maybe he's coached to do that, but it seems as though if he came up with an attitude he'd probably have had Newman in the backfield or at least would have stalmated the lead blocker. Instead he let everyone come to him, let the blocking develop, and push him backward.

[Reign of Terrier]

The film on the linebackers on this one is just not good for Chattanooga

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[PaladinFan]

The film on the linebackers on this one is just not good for Chattanooga

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Not necessarily the MLBs fault. He's hustling, it just looks like he got hung out to dry.

Again, distinguish that play from this one against WCU (just because I have a video clip of it). WCU is giving essentially the same look Wofford does, they are just doing it out of the shotgun and with an H-back as a lead blocker instead of an A-Back. Still four men in the backfield running triple option.

Furman's DE (Seabrook, I think) reads the play nicely, and feathers out on Adams. The two ILBs have the dive and don't have any need to try to out-sprint the QB to the edge. The DE attacks the QB instead of waiting on him, forcing him to make a decision and disrupting the play. You can see where if the Furman DE made the same mistake and attacked the dive, Tyrie Adams could have run for a while unimpeded.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1046102974236446721

[FUBeAR]

Another interesting example is at 4:30, I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rdoF5ni58&t=245s

I am finding it hard to figure out what UTC is doing on that play. They are in a bit of a unique defensive alignment with two down linemen and a MLB. I count 6 defensive backs.

Off the snap, the DE/OLB, #35, goes immediately for the dive (probably wrongly). The MLB attacks the dive and then tries to get to the corner to beat Newman, which he is ill-equipped to do. I saw this a few times with UTC, where their backside pursuit isn't fast enough for Wofford's backfield.

I'm curious about the play-side safety. He comes up and looks like he may have the QB, but never really attacks the play. He hangs back, lets the blocking come to him, and then starts running backward.

Maybe he's coached to do that, but it seems as though if he came up with an attitude he'd probably have had Newman in the backfield or at least would have stalmated the lead blocker. Instead he let everyone come to him, let the blocking develop, and push him backward.I’ll keep this one simple...I hope. That’s a 4-3 with the DE’s in crouched 2-point stances. Looks like Cover 0 - straight man. The deep Mike (5 yd off) is an old Bobby Johnson invention to allow him to FAST flow to either side, not get cut (or just blocked, I guess...these days) and he has QB Force (probably not Slow-Play Technique; more WHOMP’EM technique) to either side. More on him in a minute. P/S DE is perfect- squeezes down block & tackles dive. P/S LB, who is slightly walked out, has Pitch & he is fine too. CB is obviously locked on WR, who is a little slow to pick up man coverage, but eventually does and runs off the CB. P/S Safety has a tough job. He’s in Man coverage on 1st back out on his side, and that’s the Load Back, but the Safety can’t FLY up to support Run cuz his guy might run by & the QB lob it over his head. I think you’ve seen the Paladins do that effectively a few times. So he really has to slow-play until the ball crosses the LOS, which he does, but not slow enough, in my opinion. We’ll throw one over his head if he does that. B/S Safety has to ensure no eligible retriever, that would be his man, slips out his side. So he’s slow to support run away...as he should be. So, everyone’s OK...except...remember our Mike. He somehow lets the Center get a hand on him, which shouldn’t happen if he’s FAST-flowing AND because he’s TOO HIGH (there it is again) and, apparently, he skipped “Rip & Scrape Day” at LB Camp...that contact from the Center turns his body (probably grabbed him and let go real quick. I’ve heard OLmen might do that sometimes, the unethical ones, never me or my Players) back inside...thus...Ain’t no way, that after that delay, he’s getting to the edge with his pads square, his feet moving, and with a LOW center of gravity...so that he can ‘introduce himself’ to the QB at the LOS...which probably would have resulted in no gain.

This one is a Technique Failure. The scheme is sound & effective. Everyone knows what they are supposed to do & is doing it, but poor technique by ONLY 1 guy results in a 14 yard gain. The irony is...he made a solo tackle...14 yards downfield. If does that same thing often enough, he’ll be All SoCon. Won’t say who, but I know of an All-American SEC LB a few years back that SPECIALIZED in making lots of tackles...10 yards downfield. He didn’t last long in the NFL.

WHY I LOVE ME SOME OPTION FOOTBALL!!

oh...1 other thing...said I was gonna keep it simple. I lied. Just wanted to show how something incredibly minute can result in a Defensive breakdown. There is 1 other issue in there...I think. Base Alignment in that D for the DLine would be 5-1-3-5. Certainly can vary some...most often, moving the 1 Tech to a 2i Alignment is a variation. I think he was supposed to be in a 2i and I can’t be sure that’s he’s not...but at the snap, you can see he is helmet to helmet with the p/s OG..so I kinda think he was aligned too wide...in a 2. Know what might have happened if he was in a 2i instead...and attacked the inside shoulder of the OG? That Center might have had to adjust his angle to get the Mike...and he wouldn’t have gotten there (shouldn’t have been able to anyway)..and now Mike’s bad technique doesn’t hurt Chatt cuz Mike is where he’s supposed to be...and makes the tackle at the LOS. So...it could have been an Alignment Failure leading to a Technique Failure....Of course, if he was in a 2i, then the Center could have the option to pull and then...I’ll stop.

Ain’t Feetsball fun though?

[PaladinFan]

A good write up on that. I suppose it looked like what it actually was - the MLB had the QB. If nothing else, that's a good example of the offensive/defensive chess match as UTC is trying to mix up looks and assignments to confuse Wofford's reads and blocks.

UTC's issue on defense (they did give up a bunch of yards) may be more of a technique problem than a scheme problem.

[FUBeAR]

A good write up on that. I suppose it looked like what it actually was - the MLB had the QB. If nothing else, that's a good example of the offensive/defensive chess match as UTC is trying to mix up looks and assignments to confuse Wofford's reads and blocks.

UTC's issue on defense (they did give up a bunch of yards) may be more of a technique problem than a scheme problem.
Yes...personnel issue too. I think they have a starting LB out injured & the ones they have in there do not appear, to me, to be the fleetest of foot. The speed of Mr. Newman & Woffy’s RB’s is hard to match. IMO, Chatt would have been much better off using 2nd Team Safeties in some of those “LB” positions.

When I had access to Coach View video a few years back, I ‘fell in love’ with a DC when I was really able to see & break down the personnel, alignment, and scheme adaptations he deployed to shut down El Cid’s Option O when it was running through everyone else like poop thru a tin horn (props to Coach Saban). He moved a DE inside as a DT. He changed from a 3-4 base to 4-3. He put his SS in the “SnakeEye” Mike role (like UTC lined up in) to get FAST-er Flow from that position. He put his (usual) Mike (who was fast; just not fast-ER) in an OLB role, and put a back-up SS at the other OLB role. Moved an OLB to a DE role. Then, he “played games” with his (aligned as) DE’s and OLB’s on the edge - stacks, slants, stunts, etc. Totally forked up CIT’s OL Blocking ‘rules.’ Completely revamped his D to adapt to CIT’s O and shut ‘em down cold 2x. He was the DC at Charleston Southern then. Serves in the same role for a SoCon Team now...Purple Team in upstate SC, I believe. With a year of getting HIS guys ‘ramped up’ in HIS methods, I’m looking forward to seeing if he’s cooked up some interesting ‘treats’ for the LittleDogs on Saturday.

[PaladinFan]

I think Furman will fare decently against the Terrier rush attack. The Paladin defense did respectably against them last year, twice holding them under 300 yards rushing and 90 yards passing. Staggs has a good bit of experience defending the option, and did well against WCU's potent rush attack two weeks ago.

This season, the Furman defense hasn't looked great. Most of their issues (in my view) are in pass coverage. I don't think those issues are a result of not having talented players or underwhelming athletes, but a number of times it appears to be simply general confusion in coverage. When receivers are running unchecked down the field, that, to me, signals that assignments are getting blown. That's a communication problem, not a talent problem.

While Wofford does not have near the passing QB that Furman has seen to this point, they are likely going to try to sneak guys out of the backfield against linebackers in the passing game. That has given Furman problems this season. As it relates to the run game, though, I think Furman will do pretty well against Wofford's rush. Furman rotates a ton of players into the game on defense, which will mitigate a bit Wofford's ability to wear a defense down late.

Perhaps this is the hurricane talking, but I think this game will come down to Furman's offense. The Paladins have to protect their defense by keeping possession. Where we have gotten in trouble this season is when our offense periodically grinds to a halt and the defense has to keep running out there to defend a short field. We've seen less of that since they've gotten the OL settled and Roberts has returned.

[FUBeAR]

I think Furman will fare decently against the Terrier rush attack. The Paladin defense did respectably against them last year, twice holding them under 300 yards rushing and 90 yards passing. Staggs has a good bit of experience defending the option, and did well against WCU's potent rush attack two weeks ago.

This season, the Furman defense hasn't looked great. Most of their issues (in my view) are in pass coverage. I don't think those issues are a result of not having talented players or underwhelming athletes, but a number of times it appears to be simply general confusion in coverage. When receivers are running unchecked down the field, that, to me, signals that assignments are getting blown. That's a communication problem, not a talent problem.

While Wofford does not have near the passing QB that Furman has seen to this point, they are likely going to try to sneak guys out of the backfield against linebackers in the passing game. That has given Furman problems this season. As it relates to the run game, though, I think Furman will do pretty well against Wofford's rush. Furman rotates a ton of players into the game on defense, which will mitigate a bit Wofford's ability to wear a defense down late.

Perhaps this is the hurricane talking, but I think this game will come down to Furman's offense. The Paladins have to protect their defense by keeping possession. Where we have gotten in trouble this season is when our offense periodically grinds to a halt and the defense has to keep running out there to defend a short field. We've seen less of that since they've gotten the OL settled and Roberts has returned.Agree - and they have to TACKLE (or at least ‘Force’) #8 EVERY running play. Make them have to beat us with the legs of Stoddard, McAfee, Morgan, et al, and/or Newman’s arm. They are certainly capable of doing that as those are some dang good Football Players & Newman is throwing the ball much more effectively. His passes are still not pretty, but they ARE getting the job done. Also, that young OL is playing EXTREMELY well - coming off the ball hard, finishing their blocks, playing nasty AND wily. Major props due to the PorchYapper’s young & inexperienced OL Coach. He is doing a GREAT job! Bottom Line: If we let Newman beat us with his legs, we BEAT & it could get ugly.

[PaladinFan]

Agree - and they have to TACKLE (or at least ‘Force’) #8 EVERY running play. Make them have to beat us with the legs of Stoddard, McAfee, Morgan, et al, and/or Newman’s arm. They are certainly capable of doing that as those are some dang good Football Players & Newman is throwing the ball much more effectively. His passes are still not pretty, but they ARE getting the job done. Also, that young OL is playing EXTREMELY well - coming off the ball hard, finishing their blocks, playing nasty AND wily. Major props due to the PorchYapper’s young & inexperienced OL Coach. He is doing a GREAT job! Bottom Line: If we let Newman beat us with his legs, we BEAT & it could get ugly.

The WCU game may not mean anything for Saturday, but Furman played Adams very aggressively. They sacked him a bunch, hit him a bunch, and pressured him constantly. He had a whale of a game, but several of those plays were pure sorcery.

It certainly seems that Furman's game plan against Adams was to attack him and not let him dictate the pace of the game. Make someone else beat you. They may try a similar philosophy against Newman.

[FUBeAR]

The WCU game may not mean anything for Saturday, but Furman played Adams very aggressively. They sacked him a bunch, hit him a bunch, and pressured him constantly. He had a whale of a game, but several of those plays were pure sorcery.

It certainly seems that Furman's game plan against Adams was to attack him and not let him dictate the pace of the game. Make someone else beat you. They may try a similar philosophy against Newman.Apples & Artichokes though. For reasons I won’t enumerate because I don’t want to kick my Catamount friends (too much) while they are so down (even though that’s where FUBeAR told them they would be), what FU’s D did (physically) to Mr. Adams will not be duplicated on Mr. Newman. Mr. Newman is running that option like a well-oiled Tesla (they have oil, don’t they?) and he will not be put in a position to get those clean shots on him AND he knows how to avoid & absorb contact quite well. Yes, FU should try to ‘ring him up’ whenever possible, but the important thing is to force him to pitch & TACKLE him to the ground ‘right now’ if he doesn’t. Much like the inverse of Mercer’s strategy against Mr. Hodges. They weren’t trying to sack him...just wanted to take away his ability to extend pass plays & to beat them with his legs. Furman must force Mr. Newman to beat them with his arm OR relinquish the ball to a RB.

[PaladinFan]

Apples & Artichokes though. For reasons I won’t enumerate because I don’t want to kick my Catamount friends (too much) while they are so down (even though that’s where FUBeAR told them they would be), what FU’s D did (physically) to Mr. Adams will not be duplicated on Mr. Newman. Mr. Newman is running that option like a well-oiled Tesla (they have oil, don’t they?) and he will not be put in a position to get those clean shots on him AND he knows how to avoid & absorb contact quite well. Yes, FU should try to ‘ring him up’ whenever possible, but the important thing is to force him to pitch & TACKLE him to the ground ‘right now’ if he doesn’t. Much like the inverse of Mercer’s strategy against Mr. Hodges. They weren’t trying to sack him...just wanted to take away his ability to extend pass plays & to beat them with his legs. Furman must force Mr. Newman to beat them with his arm OR relinquish the ball to a RB.

In the vague recesses of my memory I can recall a Furman defense really getting after Jayson Foster one year. Foster, as you probably remember, was hard to tackle with two hand touch, much less to actually put him on the ground.

In 2007 Furman got him a few times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9C2BwU0ZuY

Check out 3:22, 3:40, and 3:48.

If the Paladins can resurrect that effort against Newman, we'll be alright alright alright.

[PaladinNation]

Yes...personnel issue too. I think they have a starting LB out injured & the ones they have in there do not appear, to me, to be the fleetest of foot. The speed of Mr. Newman & Woffy’s RB’s is hard to match. IMO, Chatt would have been much better off using 2nd Team Safeties in some of those “LB” positions.

When I had access to Coach View video a few years back, I ‘fell in love’ with a DC when I was really able to see & break down the personnel, alignment, and scheme adaptations he deployed to shut down El Cid’s Option O when it was running through everyone else like poop thru a tin horn (props to Coach Saban). He moved a DE inside as a DT. He changed from a 3-4 base to 4-3. He put his SS in the “SnakeEye” Mike role (like UTC lined up in) to get FAST-er Flow from that position. He put his (usual) Mike (who was fast; just not fast-ER) in an OLB role, and put a back-up SS at the other OLB role. Moved an OLB to a DE role. Then, he “played games” with his (aligned as) DE’s and OLB’s on the edge - stacks, slants, stunts, etc. Totally forked up CIT’s OL Blocking ‘rules.’ Completely revamped his D to adapt to CIT’s O and shut ‘em down cold 2x. He was the DC at Charleston Southern then. Serves in the same role for a SoCon Team now...Purple Team in upstate SC, I believe. With a year of getting HIS guys ‘ramped up’ in HIS methods, I’m looking forward to seeing if he’s cooked up some interesting ‘treats’ for the LittleDogs on Saturday.

Bear… thanks for the comments here. And, it goes to something I'm hoping we will see. Davonta Porter is back listed on the two-deep after being injured in the Clemson game. Porter is a big spur 6-2 225. I'm not sure Staggs knows what to do with Porter yet, he came to Furman as a 6-2 180 safety. I like Willis but Porter IMO has a huge upside and I would love to see him next to McKoy.

Another possible treat is Furman has true freshman Braden Gilby back this week. Perryman plays with emotion and has a high motor but Gilby seems to have that something - granted maybe it's just that he reminds me of Bouton and Jay Their.

One more thought on Furman defensive personnel and this matchup up. In the past, I've felt against Wofford our corners have been easy to get wrapped up in the trash. I don't think we've seen the best of Amir Trapp he at times has played very physical I hope we see that side of his game this weekend. Also doesn't hurt that Furman has a big athletic safety in Okeh (6-4, 212).

On the offensive side… will be curious to see if Furman test Wofford deep? Gordon is an obvious threat, Burnette can run and has a size advantage, and Bell is a different kinda threat that Furman hasn't had in a while. But, maybe the guy to keep an eye on is true freshman Ryan Miller a hybrid TE/WR, Roberts looks his way a good bit, and Miller burned the Cats for a big romp.

[gofurman]

Bear… thanks for the comments here. And, it goes to something I'm hoping we will see. Davonta Porter is back listed on the two-deep after being injured in the Clemson game. Porter is a big spur 6-2 225. I'm not sure Staggs knows what to do with Porter yet, he came to Furman as a 6-2 180 safety. I like Willis but Porter IMO has a huge upside and I would love to see him next to McKoy.

Another possible treat is Furman has true freshman Braden Gilby back this week. Perryman plays with emotion and has a high motor but Gilby seems to have that something - granted maybe it's just that he reminds me of Bouton and Jay Their.

One more thought on Furman defensive personnel and this matchup up. In the past, I've felt against Wofford our corners have been easy to get wrapped up in the trash. I don't think we've seen the best of Amir Trapp he at times has played very physical I hope we see that side of his game this weekend. Also doesn't hurt that Furman has a big athletic safety in Okeh (6-4, 212).

On the offensive side… will be curious to see if Furman test Wofford deep? Gordon is an obvious threat, Burnette can run and has a size advantage, and Bell is a different kinda threat that Furman hasn't had in a while. But, maybe the guy to keep an eye on is true freshman Ryan Miller a hybrid TE/WR, Roberts looks his way a good bit, and Miller burned the Cats for a big romp.

Ill call it like it is. The issue for us in stopping the option is not the DL.. it's our LBs. Our DL will get it done I suspect. As FUBeAR noted once, one of our LB was all over the place playing w emotion but missing his assignments. We have one really good LB in McKoy (all-conference) but the transfer of Ellis (Jerry Rice List) is hurting us pretty bad. It is. We have some athletes - as noted by some above - but the quickest most athletic guys are young and missing assignments. Thus the underneath passes we have been allowing. Well, if you don't play assignemt football on the option you are dead. d e a d. I will be interested to see if we are improving. It all comes down to our LBs and safeties on run help. Most of the LBs have not played much vs the option - the safeties (Anoor and Okeh) have. I suspect the DL and Safeties to do fine.

PLEASE keep your assignments LB !!!

[PaladinFan]

Bear… thanks for the comments here. And, it goes to something I'm hoping we will see. Davonta Porter is back listed on the two-deep after being injured in the Clemson game. Porter is a big spur 6-2 225. I'm not sure Staggs knows what to do with Porter yet, he came to Furman as a 6-2 180 safety. I like Willis but Porter IMO has a huge upside and I would love to see him next to McKoy.

Another possible treat is Furman has true freshman Braden Gilby back this week. Perryman plays with emotion and has a high motor but Gilby seems to have that something - granted maybe it's just that he reminds me of Bouton and Jay Their.

One more thought on Furman defensive personnel and this matchup up. In the past, I've felt against Wofford our corners have been easy to get wrapped up in the trash. I don't think we've seen the best of Amir Trapp he at times has played very physical I hope we see that side of his game this weekend. Also doesn't hurt that Furman has a big athletic safety in Okeh (6-4, 212).

On the offensive side… will be curious to see if Furman test Wofford deep? Gordon is an obvious threat, Burnette can run and has a size advantage, and Bell is a different kinda threat that Furman hasn't had in a while. But, maybe the guy to keep an eye on is true freshman Ryan Miller a hybrid TE/WR, Roberts looks his way a good bit, and Miller burned the Cats for a big romp.

I think you will see Furman try to throw it.

From what I've seen, Wofford does not generate a ton of pressure with their front three. Those are bigger two gap type players who are more "read and react" types. They show four QB hurries all season and only 1 sack from a defensive linemen. Most of their QB pressure is from the defensive backfield. I'm sure they pick their spots to bring extra rushers. The key is picking them up, especially backside pressure from corners and safeties, which Furman has struggled with.

I think they play more man coverage this year than in years past, but are still going to try to take away the deep ball. Both UTC and VMI had some success on underneath routes and screens. We ran a good bit of that. Of course, Furman's offense runs through the inside run game, which is where Wofford can be tough.

It'll be an interesting matchup to watch. Wofford's defense is big and physical. Furman's offense is leaner and quicker. I think Furman wants to get the Terriers defending sideline to sideline and then start probing downfield looking for openings. Wofford, I think, wants to keep Furman in the box and turn this into a bare knuckle fight in the trenches.

[Reign of Terrier]

I dunno, Wofford's strength this year has been at linebacker because we're so deep there.

Wofford used to play exactly like Furman up front: fast and small, but now we seem more specialized to take up space and stop the run.

To illustrate our defensive strengths, Conklin installed this new 2-5 (probably not what it's called) formation where we have 2 DL and 5 LBs on the LOS. It's a zone blitz look and you don't quite know who's coming (hint: TJ Neil). You can see Thad Mangum go out in zone pass protection on one play against Chattanooga.

Wofford's developed depth to the point where at linebacker and the secondary we have pass support, run support, and pass rush specialists (TJ Neil).

I don't know what to expect out of the defense this time. Last year Domo Lemon had a monster game at corner as a run specialist...and this time we have more of that.

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[PaladinFan]

I dunno, Wofford's strength this year has been at linebacker because we're so deep there.

Wofford used to play exactly like Furman up front: fast and small, but now we seem more specialized to take up space and stop the run.

To illustrate our defensive strengths, Conklin installed this new 2-5 (probably not what it's called) formation where we have 2 DL and 5 LBs on the LOS. It's a zone blitz look and you don't quite know who's coming (hint: TJ Neil). You can see Thad Mangum go out in zone pass protection on one play against Chattanooga.

Wofford's developed depth to the point where at linebacker and the secondary we have pass support, run support, and pass rush specialists (TJ Neil).

I don't know what to expect out of the defense this time. Last year Domo Lemon had a monster game at corner as a run specialist...and this time we have more of that.

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Wofford certainly is strong at linebacker. My suggesting isn't that they aren't, but just noting the area I think Furman may try to exploit.

Furman routinely shifts its personnel. Often presnap. WRs line up at slot back or in the backfield. RBs line up at WR. The TEs move in and out of the formation and can all catch.

The difficulty for defenses (at least last year and a growing trend this year) is matchups. Furman doesn't huddle, and can keep the same personnel on the field shifting in and out of run looks. Defenses cannot get too greedy, as the big fullback is still lined up in the backfield.

One difference too is the overall increase in team speed. Furman has recruited guys that can run both on the line and in the backfield. You will see a lot more guys on Furman's roster that resemble Lennox McAfee - multipurpose speed backs - than you did last year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford certainly is strong at linebacker. My suggesting isn't that they aren't, but just noting the area I think Furman may try to exploit.

Furman routinely shifts its personnel. Often presnap. WRs line up at slot back or in the backfield. RBs line up at WR. The TEs move in and out of the formation and can all catch.

The difficulty for defenses (at least last year and a growing trend this year) is matchups. Furman doesn't huddle, and can keep the same personnel on the field shifting in and out of run looks. Defenses cannot get too greedy, as the big fullback is still lined up in the backfield.

One difference too is the overall increase in team speed. Furman has recruited guys that can run both on the line and in the backfield. You will see a lot more guys on Furman's roster that resemble Lennox McAfee - multipurpose speed backs - than you did last year.All I know is that I trust Conklin and Siefkis (who I have not learned to spell) to run the defense more than I trust Sheil Wood.

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[SU FAN]

I think everyone who isn't Wofford needs to be pulling for Furman.

There are two undefeated teams in conference play - Wofford and ETSU. Those two still have to play one another, guaranteeing that one will take a loss. I think there's a far greater likelihood of Wofford running the table than ETSU, so anyone who has an interest in the autobid needs to hope Wofford picks up another loss somewhere.


True dat

[FUGameBreaker]

1pm kickoff tomorrow

70 degrees with sunny skies xthumbsupx

[Reign of Terrier]

I said it earlier but confirmed, YT will be there

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[kdinva]

Would love to read the box score, and attendance be 15,000+.....

[Reign of Terrier]

Would love to read the box score, and attendance be 15,000+.....

unlikely. Our home attendance is always over-estimated. We're lucky if we get 4k of our fans there (if that).

On the road? fuggit about it.

[PaladinFan]

unlikely. Our home attendance is always over-estimated. We're lucky if we get 4k of our fans there (if that).

On the road? fuggit about it.

Furman tends to report the actual attendance, or what looks like it would be close to the actual attendance.

70 degree sunny day in Greenville with a 1:00 kickoff against a good Wofford team? I'd estimate 10-11k.

[wcugrad95]

Not sure about the crowd. I expected to see a good crowd for the WCU @ Furman game since it was Furman's first home game in like a year, but I think the attendance was something like 7200. So I would be surprised if it is 10k. But I honestly hope I am wrong - I would love to see all the SoCon venues start having bigger crowds because it looks pretty bad when I tune into the games and see the stadiums less than 50% full.

Back in the day, Paladin Stadium would routinely pull-in packed houses. Of course that was before all the streaming services/games being available, and was when Furman was a perennial playoff team. AND it was when other schools like App and Georgia Southern routinely brought lots of fans to all the SoCon stadiums, too.

Again - hope I am wrong and there are 12k+ at the game of schools 30 miles (or less) apart.

[PaladinFan]

Not sure about the crowd. I expected to see a good crowd for the WCU @ Furman game since it was Furman's first home game in like a year, but I think the attendance was something like 7200. So I would be surprised if it is 10k. But I honestly hope I am wrong - I would love to see all the SoCon venues start having bigger crowds because it looks pretty bad when I tune into the games and see the stadiums less than 50% full.

Back in the day, Paladin Stadium would routinely pull-in packed houses. Of course that was before all the streaming services/games being available, and was when Furman was a perennial playoff team. AND it was when other schools like App and Georgia Southern routinely brought lots of fans to all the SoCon stadiums, too.

Again - hope I am wrong and there are 12k+ at the game of schools 30 miles (or less) apart.

Football attendance is down everywhere. I watched Alabama and Arkansas last weekend and the stadium was 3/4 filled in Fayetteville.

Streaming games does make a difference. I admittedly come to fewer home games (it is, indeed, a trek for me to get to Greenville) because I can watch at home and Atlanta is a pain in the rear to drive through.

Of course, I think Furman fans are still not completely trusting of the program. The team just hit a real low spot for a while and probably drove a lot of folks back into the waiting arms of Clemson. Winning cures a lot of problems, though.

In fact, I think Clay Hendrix played videos for the team last year showing Paladin Stadium with 15-18k folks. That was something I know none of them had ever experienced and probably did not think was possible.

[longtimemocfan]

Yes...personnel issue too. I think they have a starting LB out injured & the ones they have in there do not appear, to me, to be the fleetest of foot. The speed of Mr. Newman & Woffy’s RB’s is hard to match. IMO, Chatt would have been much better off using 2nd Team Safeties in some of those “LB” positions.

When I had access to Coach View video a few years back, I ‘fell in love’ with a DC when I was really able to see & break down the personnel, alignment, and scheme adaptations he deployed to shut down El Cid’s Option O when it was running through everyone else like poop thru a tin horn (props to Coach Saban). He moved a DE inside as a DT. He changed from a 3-4 base to 4-3. He put his SS in the “SnakeEye” Mike role (like UTC lined up in) to get FAST-er Flow from that position. He put his (usual) Mike (who was fast; just not fast-ER) in an OLB role, and put a back-up SS at the other OLB role. Moved an OLB to a DE role. Then, he “played games” with his (aligned as) DE’s and OLB’s on the edge - stacks, slants, stunts, etc. Totally forked up CIT’s OL Blocking ‘rules.’ Completely revamped his D to adapt to CIT’s O and shut ‘em down cold 2x. He was the DC at Charleston Southern then. Serves in the same role for a SoCon Team now...Purple Team in upstate SC, I believe. With a year of getting HIS guys ‘ramped up’ in HIS methods, I’m looking forward to seeing if he’s cooked up some interesting ‘treats’ for the LittleDogs on Saturday.Damn, my sentiments exactly about Chattanooga's defense. What I liked about a Huesman employed defense 4-2-5. Using that 5th DB as a hybrid linebacker. It deployed a lot more speed on the field. I agree we have a stable of DB's why not use one of them at LB.

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[Reign of Terrier]

Not sure about the crowd. I expected to see a good crowd for the WCU @ Furman game since it was Furman's first home game in like a year, but I think the attendance was something like 7200. So I would be surprised if it is 10k. But I honestly hope I am wrong - I would love to see all the SoCon venues start having bigger crowds because it looks pretty bad when I tune into the games and see the stadiums less than 50% full.

Back in the day, Paladin Stadium would routinely pull-in packed houses. Of course that was before all the streaming services/games being available, and was when Furman was a perennial playoff team. AND it was when other schools like App and Georgia Southern routinely brought lots of fans to all the SoCon stadiums, too.

Again - hope I am wrong and there are 12k+ at the game of schools 30 miles (or less) apart.


Football attendance is down everywhere. I watched Alabama and Arkansas last weekend and the stadium was 3/4 filled in Fayetteville.

Streaming games does make a difference. I admittedly come to fewer home games (it is, indeed, a trek for me to get to Greenville) because I can watch at home and Atlanta is a pain in the rear to drive through.

Of course, I think Furman fans are still not completely trusting of the program. The team just hit a real low spot for a while and probably drove a lot of folks back into the waiting arms of Clemson. Winning cures a lot of problems, though.

In fact, I think Clay Hendrix played videos for the team last year showing Paladin Stadium with 15-18k folks. That was something I know none of them had ever experienced and probably did not think was possible.

Believe it or not, attendance actually isn't down for most of the country. Half-empty stadiums is just a reality for 3/4 of college football.

the socon attendance is down because Furman has been not-relevant for most of the last 12 years or so and GSU/App State leaving. I really am envious that they could at one point turn out 15k people to a home game. We're probably in the midst of the best 3-4 years in program history at wofford and we can't crack more than 6k home fans. We've never had more than 10k or so at a game ("officially announced") in a game that didn't have app state or georgia southern. I think we had 12k at a Furman game in 2004, but that may have had just as much to do with them as us.

To be clear, Wofford probably only has <25k living alumni but still it's frustrating to see such sparse attendance. Our players deserve better.

[PaladinFan]

Believe it or not, attendance actually isn't down for most of the country. Half-empty stadiums is just a reality for 3/4 of college football.

the socon attendance is down because Furman has been not-relevant for most of the last 12 years or so and GSU/App State leaving. I really am envious that they could at one point turn out 15k people to a home game. We're probably in the midst of the best 3-4 years in program history at wofford and we can't crack more than 6k home fans. We've never had more than 10k or so at a game ("officially announced") in a game that didn't have app state or georgia southern. I think we had 12k at a Furman game in 2004, but that may have had just as much to do with them as us.

To be clear, Wofford probably only has <25k living alumni but still it's frustrating to see such sparse attendance. Our players deserve better.

Outside of the Boise State/Oklahoma Fiesta Bowl 10 or so years ago, and the UGA/OU Rose Bowl last year, this was the best football game I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxi2v3wzg8k

Stop it at 1:09:09. Announced attendance, I think, was 18k+ for a Furman home game. Furman was ranked #3 and Georgia Southern #2. I think the Eagles brought 6-7k fans (enough to fill up Furman's massive visitor's stands). The only blank space in the crowd is where the band sat.

If you know anything about Furman, all the parking lots were full, cars were parked at an angle all down both sides of the Furman Mall, and they had even filled up the athletic fields on the north side of campus. It was insane.

[PaladinFan]

Incidentally, if you want a blueprint on stopping (or slowing down) the option, that 2004 GSU/Furman game is the game to watch. That Eagle offense was putting up 50 or 60 a game, and Furman held them to 22.

[gofurman]

Not sure about the crowd. I expected to see a good crowd for the WCU @ Furman game since it was Furman's first home game in like a year, but I think the attendance was something like 7200. So I would be surprised if it is 10k. But I honestly hope I am wrong - I would love to see all the SoCon venues start having bigger crowds because it looks pretty bad when I tune into the games and see the stadiums less than 50% full.

Back in the day, Paladin Stadium would routinely pull-in packed houses. Of course that was before all the streaming services/games being available, and was when Furman was a perennial playoff team. AND it was when other schools like App and Georgia Southern routinely brought lots of fans to all the SoCon stadiums, too.

Again - hope I am wrong and there are 12k+ at the game of schools 30 miles (or less) apart.

realistically, FU and Woff should always struggle in attendance as private schools of 2600 and 1400 attendance respectively. GSU and App had built in attendance w 15K students. I am impressed FU used to pull in 15-18K .. I was at that 2004 game. It was AWESOME. Ingle Martin (1 year NFL QB)< Jerome Felton (8 year NFL and All-PRO !!), Ike West, Brian Bratton (CFL) etc. good grief we had soooo muchhh talent . we were the best team that year. we were. JMU beat us in the playoffs on a fumble etc. AT FURMAN and then won the title game soon thereafter without too much sweat. They beat us by one point.. 14-13? The winner of FU/JMU was probably going to win the national title

[PaladinFan]

realistically, FU and Woff should always struggle in attendance as private schools of 2600 and 1400 attendance respectively. GSU and App had built in attendance w 15K students. I am impressed FU used to pull in 15-18K .. I was at that 2004 game. It was AWESOME. Ingle Martin (1 year NFL QB)< Jerome Felton (8 year NFL and All-PRO !!), Ike West, Brian Bratton (CFL) etc. good grief we had soooo muchhh talent . we were the best team that year. we were. JMU beat us in the playoffs on a fumble etc. AT FURMAN and then won the title game soon thereafter without too much sweat. They beat us by one point.. 14-13? The winner of FU/JMU was probably going to win the national title

I had never seen a team snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in a manner such as Furman managed against James Madison.

I will say that the ETSU game pretty darn close if not surpassed that for "how did we lose that game?" territory.

[PaladinNation]

realistically, FU and Woff should always struggle in attendance as private schools of 2600 and 1400 attendance respectively. GSU and App had built in attendance w 15K students. I am impressed FU used to pull in 15-18K .. I was at that 2004 game. It was AWESOME. Ingle Martin (1 year NFL QB)< Jerome Felton (8 year NFL and All-PRO !!), Ike West, Brian Bratton (CFL) etc. good grief we had soooo muchhh talent . we were the best team that year. we were. JMU beat us in the playoffs on a fumble etc. AT FURMAN and then won the title game soon thereafter without too much sweat. They beat us by one point.. 14-13? The winner of FU/JMU was probably going to win the national title

The skill guys got all the attention… and they still do but Furman had a helluva Clay Hendrix coached o-line Corey Stewart and Patrick Covington IMO we're critical to the success of the 04-05 teams. And that defensive backfield; Thacker, Newton, and Blocker played the option about as good as it gets.

Time will tell if Kroeber, Neeley, Layton, Harris, and Godwin can develop into a comparable offensive line, I think they could.

[FUGameBreaker]

Yep
I am guessing 9-10k tomorrow

We can get back to 12-14k per game again but we will need to start winning SoCon titles and going deep in the playoffs again for the crowds to pick back up like that

[Reign of Terrier]

Yep
I am guessing 9-10k tomorrow

We can get back to 12-14k per game again but we will need to start winning SoCon titles and going deep in the playoffs again for the crowds to pick back up like thatI would love if Wofford could regularly pull "10k" a game. We have to keep winning. 2013-2015 deflated us a bit.

And if Furman gets back to what they used to be, in 20 years this rivalry could be lit

(I say 20 years because these things take time)

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[wcugrad95]

I know it is totally unrelated to the Wofford @ Furman game, but talking about attendance nobody really fills their stands outside of WCU and Mercer - ETSU looks like they are on the verge of it. Obviously 2 of those mentioned are the larger public universities with lots more students. But man - you have to appreciate the Western faithful at least a little, given how we have kept coming to games though good and bad (with a lot more "bad" in there over the past 35 years).

The WCU attendance will be interesting tomorrow coming off the blow-out loss to Samford. It is Fall break, so the students are gone. I expected a much smaller crowd than the first 2 home games (averaged well over 12k), but it might be one of the smaller crowds we have had in the past couple of seasons.

[Reign of Terrier]

WCU attendance is GREAT, all things considered.

Seriously.

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[SCPALADIN]

Furman tends to report the actual attendance, or what looks like it would be close to the actual attendance.

70 degree sunny day in Greenville with a 1:00 kickoff against a good Wofford team? I'd estimate 10-11k.
I'll be there and bringing 7. Should be a good crowd, but doubt we'll get over 10K.

[gofurman]

Agree - and they have to TACKLE (or at least ‘Force’) #8 EVERY running play. Make them have to beat us with the legs of Stoddard, McAfee, Morgan, et al, and/or Newman’s arm. They are certainly capable of doing that as those are some dang good Football Players & Newman is throwing the ball much more effectively. His passes are still not pretty, but they ARE getting the job done. Also, that young OL is playing EXTREMELY well - coming off the ball hard, finishing their blocks, playing nasty AND wily. Major props due to the PorchYapper’s young & inexperienced OL Coach. He is doing a GREAT job! Bottom Line: If we let Newman beat us with his legs, we BEAT & it could get ugly.

Y. I'll give Woff OL CREDIT. FU is young OL w 4 Sophomore and 1 Junr. But Woff isn't a ton older w 2 Soph and 3 Junior. Probably one of few games in FCS w not a single Senior on OL for either team !

both teams are young on offense and should be very good on O next year though FU will need a QB. Newman will return for Woff

[gofurman]

The skill guys got all the attention… and they still do but Furman had a helluva Clay Hendrix coached o-line Corey Stewart and Patrick Covington IMO we're critical to the success of the 04-05 teams. And that defensive backfield; Thacker, Newton, and Blocker played the option about as good as it gets.

Time will tell if Kroeber, Neeley, Layton, Harris, and Godwin can develop into a comparable offensive line, I think they could.

100% agree man

[gofurman]

WCU attendance is GREAT, all things considered.

Seriously.

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Yep. Like gamecocks used to get 60k in a 3-8 season. Impressed w WCU attendance

[FUGameBreaker]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051072558362112000

[Reign of Terrier]

Credit to Furman in the first half: staggs has defending the option as advertised. Thankfully we have some semblance of a pass game, so this game isn't over yet.

Wofford's defense could be playing a lot worse, but most of Furman's possessions have started beyond their own 40 or so.

I hate Furman

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[PaladinFan]

Good half of football from Furman and playing well on both sides of the ball.

Play smart, keep the Terrier offense in front, don't give up big plays, and let Wofford run the clock out for you.

[wcugrad95]

As an unbiased observer, the Paladins got the shaft by the refs in my opinion. Wofford probably shouldn't have any points as those 3rd down penalties could have easily simply been the ref warning the FU player.

[POD Knows]

As an unbiased observer, the Paladins got the shaft by the refs in my opinion. Wofford probably shouldn't have any points as those 3rd down penalties could have easily simply been the ref warning the FU player.The PF on the one third down was a terrible call, and the PI was iffy, there was no way that ball was catchable.

[PaladinFan]

As an unbiased observer, the Paladins got the shaft by the refs in my opinion. Wofford probably shouldn't have any points as those 3rd down penalties could have easily simply been the ref warning the FU player.

Wofford also got away with a clear illegal block on Newman's completion on their last drive. Terrier receiver went 10 yards downfield and clocked the Furman safety.

[PaladinFan]

Second half will be interesting. Furman has jumped out to early leads in both of their last games and let the opponent come back.

[POD Knows]

Wofford also got away with a clear illegal block on Newman's completion on their last drive. Terrier receiver went 10 yards downfield and clocked the Furman safety.Yep, and it was right in front of the official. It was obvious as hell. I am completely unbiased here, I really don't care who wins but Furman needs to keep throwing the ball, Wofford has no answer for the passing game.

[wcugrad95]

And @YT - not sure I would say Wofford has a passing game. Newman is 5-12 for 55 yards. If Wofford has to throw it close to 25 times I don't think that is a good thing for the Terriers. That being said, we have already seen Furman let ETSU and WCU score a lot of 2nd half points.

[UpstateBison]

Nice play calling on that Furman drive to start the second half.


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[Reign of Terrier]

Furman exposed us. Good game dins. Socon is a lot tougher than I thought this year

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[Reign of Terrier]

Basically, Furman looked at our defensive film from NDSU. We aren't good at the second level on the perimeter. Not sure if it's a personnel issue or just one of those holes that will come in a defense we run.

Furman officially has it together. Of course they would find a way against us in Greenville.

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[Reign of Terrier]

The story of this one is Furman's offense. Roberts had a great game and kept them on the field. Much like Chattanooga, and unorthodoxly, the pass game set up the perimeter run game. Furman unequivocally had their best game of the year, and it's hard to tell if it's because of Wofford's weaknesses or if they have it together 100% (or both). That Elon loss makes the conference look bad.

I still don't know what to make of the dins defense. They did the right things. Yardage won't tell the whole story. Hard to say how far they'll go, because Samford, VMI and others will favor the pass. They should be favored in every game here on out, but they'll go as far as the defense takes them.

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[UpstateBison]

Furman exposed us. Good game dins. Socon is a lot tougher than I thought this year

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You seriously think the SoCon is tougher than you thought? I like Wofford and the SoCon but I think they are really down this year.


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[gofurman]

As an unbiased observer, the Paladins got the shaft by the refs in my opinion. Wofford probably shouldn't have any points as those 3rd down penalties could have easily simply been the ref warning the FU player.

Thank you for saying that as a Western guy. If I say it as Furman guy it looks like whine. Those were 50/50 calls AT BEST. to give both to Wofford was crazy. that pass was weak interference and mostly it was uncatchable. That should have ended drive. Those two calls gave Wofford the TD help they needed. Either call not made and might be 21-3 at half?

then Wofford guy shoves our guy. Our guy retaliates. Our guy called. I'll admit we HAVE to learn to stay under control as the retaliation is often called. I admit that

[PaladinFan]

You seriously think the SoCon is tougher than you thought? I like Wofford and the SoCon but I think they are really down this year.


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I think Furman played two early games with a young team and freshmen QBs. They probably would have beaten Colgate like a drum and had a complete meltdown late against ETSU.

I think the team you saw today is more the Furman team that we expected.

[gofurman]

Furman exposed us. Good game dins. Socon is a lot tougher than I thought this year

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It's becoming clear not having Roberts was hurting us vs Elon (I still think Elon wins by 15+ - they may be Title contenders) and Roberts couldn't practice while hurt. If he's healthy the whole year you have to wonder if we beat ETSU w more reps - after scoring 7 vs Elon (FR QB). W Roberts and OL work we have scored 27 44 and 34 ( vs a great Wofford D). Big difference

we CAN. DEFEND. THE. RUN. what worries me is pass D.

We still haven't proven able to stop the pass yet. But I think our D showing today has to worry Citadel a lot

[PaladinFan]

The story of this one is Furman's offense. Roberts had a great game and kept them on the field. Much like Chattanooga, and unorthodoxly, the pass game set up the perimeter run game. Furman unequivocally had their best game of the year, and it's hard to tell if it's because of Wofford's weaknesses or if they have it together 100% (or both). That Elon loss makes the conference look bad.

I still don't know what to make of the dins defense. They did the right things. Yardage won't tell the whole story. Hard to say how far they'll go, because Samford, VMI and others will favor the pass. They should be favored in every game here on out, but they'll go as far as the defense takes them.

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I noted in the leadup that one of the potential matchup advantages for Furman was on the perimeter in the passing game.

Furman is a much deeper team in the offensive backfield than they were last year. Those guys can run and catch, and Wofford simply couldn't matchup with them in coverage. Furman running backs had 117 yards receiving.

The defense is far closer to what I expected to see this year - an explosive and aggressive group. The Terriers broke off a few runs, but surrendering 247 yards on the ground is an outstanding effort.

[katss07]

Clearly we know jack **** about the SoCon. Everything we thought we knew is out the window. Is this conference a two big league at this point? I doubt it.

Lets just jump the gun and assume ETSU beats El Cid. You have a 6-1 ETSU team who plays Wofford next weekend. Both teams have Samford and Mercer left. I have to assume the loser doesn’t make the playoffs. Furman is going to have to win out to have any sort of chance, but they play Chatty so that will eliminate one of the teams. Mercer has 3 losses and a tough schedule. WCU hasn’t impressed but if they win out...this conference is a crapshoot!

Any way congrats to the ‘Dins on a big rivalry game win.

[PaladinFan]

Clearly we know jack **** about the SoCon. Everything we thought we knew is out the window. Is this conference a two big league at this point? I doubt it.

Lets just jump the gun and assume ETSU beats El Cid. You have a 6-1 ETSU team who plays Wofford next weekend. Both teams have Samford and Mercer left. I have to assume the loser doesn’t make the playoffs. Furman is going to have to win out to have any sort of chance, but they play Chatty so that will eliminate one of the teams. Mercer has 3 losses and a tough schedule. WCU hasn’t impressed but if they win out...this conference is a crapshoot!

Any way congrats to the ‘Dins on a big rivalry game win.

I still debate on whether Furman has to win out. Remember, the Paladins had a game canceled that likely would have been a walkaway win against a top 25 team (maybe not, but Furman has blown out Colgate every time they've played). Can you dock a team for another school canceling a game on them, especially if Furman finishes 6-4 (6-2)? 7-4 (6-2) with two top 25 wins for a SoCon team is usually a guaranteed invite (or close to it)

[PaladinFan]

If there was FCS fantasy football, Harris Roberts would have not necessarily been a smart play against Wofford's defense.

16-19 for 235, 3 tds, and 2 rushing touchdowns is a pretty good day, though.

[PaladinFan]

I don't think I saw Furman run this wrinkle last year, but man what a beautiful play design.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051185503578406912

Actually, same play from earlier in the game. Caught the same linebacker flat-footed twice (#46)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051158753049894913

[gofurman]

I don't think I saw Furman run this wrinkle last year, but man what a beautiful play design.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051185503578406912

Actually, same play from earlier in the game. Caught the same linebacker flat-footed twice (#46)

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051158753049894913

Nice catch paladinfan. I saw the play but didn't realize it beat nbr 46 for Wofford BOTH times. Man, that's sorta the old oh s**t play where you flow one way and one guy sneaks out and that LB is sayin oh s**t as he saw the offense guy blow by and now the ball is in the air

[WestCoastAggie]

Welcome to the Twilight Zone Wofford.

[PaladinFan]

That's a well-designed play, but Wofford definitely failed to adjust. Furman ran the same play and Wofford ran the same coverage against it. Twice Furman beat the same player in man to man coverage.

[katss07]

I still debate on whether Furman has to win out. Remember, the Paladins had a game canceled that likely would have been a walkaway win against a top 25 team (maybe not, but Furman has blown out Colgate every time they've played). Can you dock a team for another school canceling a game on them, especially if Furman finishes 6-4 (6-2)? 7-4 (6-2) with two top 25 wins for a SoCon team is usually a guaranteed invite (or close to it)
Although you’re confident that Furman would have beaten the ‘Gate, my outsider perspective is that it would have been a really fun, good game. Colgate has an incredibly talented defense that is basically immovable. They are damn good. IMHO, easy top 15 team.

I think Furman would have to win out. The CAA is going to get lots of bids this season. The MVFC and Big Sky is basically 6 at larges combined. The Southland has a good shot to get three teams in this season. And maybe the MEAC Runner Up gets in (if A&T wins out). I just don’t think a 6-4 Furman team would get. A 7-3 Furman team definitely would. Regardless they’ll have to control what they can control. Tough upcoming schedule.

[PaladinFan]

Although you’re confident that Furman would have beaten the ‘Gate, my outsider perspective is that it would have been a really fun, good game. Colgate has an incredibly talented defense that is basically immovable. They are damn good. IMHO, easy top 15 team.

I think Furman would have to win out. The CAA is going to get lots of bids this season. The MVFC and Big Sky is basically 6 at larges combined. The Southland has a good shot to get three teams in this season. And maybe the MEAC Runner Up gets in (if A&T wins out). I just don’t think a 6-4 Furman team would get. A 7-3 Furman team definitely would. Regardless they’ll have to control what they can control. Tough upcoming schedule.

I don't doubt that. Colgate's a good team, but Furman played them last year on the road and dominated them. The Paladins just put 34 against what was considered one of the nation's top defenses.

[Reign of Terrier]

You seriously think the SoCon is tougher than you thought? I like Wofford and the SoCon but I think they are really down this year.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt only looks bad if you think ETSU is bad. Their win against Citadel shows they are here and for real. SoCon looks a lot better than it did 24 hours ago

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[ETSUfan1]

Well, almost everyone does think ETSU is BAD.

[Reign of Terrier]

If Wofford beats ETSU and wins out and ETSU finished at least 7-4 (and Furman wins out), Furman will make the playoffs.

If 7-4 Samford with 6 D1 wins gets in in 2016, so does this Furman team.

I think we got outcoached in this one. As Paladinfan pointed out, we failed to adjust on defense. Furman's offense for the most part couldn't get anything straight up the middle, but then again they didn't really try. I don't know if we came in trying to defend the same Furman team as last year or what but we just failed to adjust even when it was obvious they were doing something different.

It's been like 2 or 3 years since the last time Wofford let a socon team score 30 on us. Granted, we gave them a short field for a couple of those scores, but still. We lost the field position battle pretty early, and though we moved the ball better in the second half, I could tell we weren't going to score 30. As much as Furman fans will insist they saw this coming, I really don't think anyone did. This was easily their best game of the season on offense, and anyone who thought that would happen is a homer.

This was one of those games where you feel disappointed but you know your team can do better. We didn't give up. I think the young coaching staff will have more to learn from this than the players.

If ETSU and Furman continue to win, they are in, as is Wofford. Wofford probably has the most cushion. We'll likely be in at 8-3 or so, but ETSU probably needs 8 and Furman can't lose.

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[Reign of Terrier]

Well, almost everyone does think ETSU is BAD.As I said earlier this week, if you fulfilled a specific criteria (holding citadel below certain rush yardage, win on the road), you'd earn my respect.

You passed. Congrats xthumbsupx

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[PaladinFan]

If Wofford beats ETSU and wins out and ETSU finished at least 7-4 (and Furman wins out), Furman will make the playoffs.

If 7-4 Samford with 6 D1 wins gets in in 2016, so does this Furman team.

I think we got outcoached in this one. As Paladinfan pointed out, we failed to adjust on defense. Furman's offense for the most part couldn't get anything straight up the middle, but then again they didn't really try. I don't know if we came in trying to defend the same Furman team as last year or what but we just failed to adjust even when it was obvious they were doing something different.

It's been like 2 or 3 years since the last time Wofford let a socon team score 30 on us. Granted, we gave them a short field for a couple of those scores, but still. We lost the field position battle pretty early, and though we moved the ball better in the second half, I could tell we weren't going to score 30. As much as Furman fans will insist they saw this coming, I really don't think anyone did. This was easily their best game of the season on offense, and anyone who thought that would happen is a homer.

This was one of those games where you feel disappointed but you know your team can do better. We didn't give up. I think the young coaching staff will have more to learn from this than the players.

If ETSU and Furman continue to win, they are in, as is Wofford. Wofford probably has the most cushion. We'll likely be in at 8-3 or so, but ETSU probably needs 8 and Furman can't lose.

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I think Furman just chose not to make this a game between the tackles. They did that twice last year and Furman lost both. That plays right into the strength of Wofford's defense, which is their interior run defense.

Instead, Furman tried to make Wofford defend the width of the field. Wofford couldn't force the game back in the middle.

[gofurman]

If Wofford beats ETSU and wins out and ETSU finished at least 7-4 (and Furman wins out), Furman will make the playoffs.

If 7-4 Samford with 6 D1 wins gets in in 2016, so does this Furman team.

I think we got outcoached in this one. As Paladinfan pointed out, we failed to adjust on defense. Furman's offense for the most part couldn't get anything straight up the middle, but then again they didn't really try. I don't know if we came in trying to defend the same Furman team as last year or what but we just failed to adjust even when it was obvious they were doing something different.

It's been like 2 or 3 years since the last time Wofford let a socon team score 30 on us. Granted, we gave them a short field for a couple of those scores, but still. We lost the field position battle pretty early, and though we moved the ball better in the second half, I could tell we weren't going to score 30. As much as Furman fans will insist they saw this coming, I really don't think anyone did. This was easily their best game of the season on offense, and anyone who thought that would happen is a homer.

This was one of those games where you feel disappointed but you know your team can do better. We didn't give up. I think the young coaching staff will have more to learn from this than the players.

If ETSU and Furman continue to win, they are in, as is Wofford. Wofford probably has the most cushion. We'll likely be in at 8-3 or so, but ETSU probably needs 8 and Furman can't lose.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Furman just chose not to make this a game between the tackles. They did that twice last year and Furman lost both. That plays right into the strength of Wofford's defense, which is their interior run defense.

Instead, Furman tried to make Wofford defend the width of the field. Wofford couldn't force the game back in the middle."

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NOTE TO SELF - when playin' Wofford it is best to avoid some dude named Miles Brown ! :D I jest only in part. That's credit to him ! Clearly, it's a lot more complicated than that but Furman tried much less in his turf this year than last. Though I think Woff had Horton there too last year (and will next year). Point is we kept it honest in the middle but that's about all. Otherwise it was passes to the sideline and to the backs out in space, not runs up the middle. I am simplifying obviously but yes, I admire players on other teams and Miles is a stud. Best to avoid him !

Instead we went after #46 with two long passes - one for TD and another for over 40 yards w a RB coming out of the bacffield on some misdirection. And ran option outside.

But all that said we are missing what Furman's D did to a Great offense. Wofford ran 40 times (roughly) and threw 20 times. You tell me that coming in and I feel pretty good. I think optimally WOff wants to run 60 times and pass 12 or so.. Though once or twice we had you at 3rd and 9 and you completed for 1st down - dammit :D... Newman is a pretty good passer. Much better than Woff QBs 15 years ago .. used to if we got the T Dogs in 3rd and 9 I felt it was 80% we had em. Now I think it's 50/50 you make it. Your passing is better than it used to be 10/15 years ago by far.

[gofurman]

I don't doubt that. Colgate's a good team, but Furman played them last year on the road and dominated them. The Paladins just put 34 against what was considered one of the nation's top defenses.

YES. Furman beat Colgate by THIRTY last year IN NEW YORK. somehow I don't think Colgate would win in Greenville where we are undefeated this year - just as Wofford (and Colgate is NOT Wofford)- when we TROUNCED them last year at their place... I mean Wofford beat us in Spartanburg both times last year and lost by 20 in Greenville today. I don't see how a team that we beat by 30 on the road comes into Furman and wins.

Stinks for the whole SoCOn really. That might have been a top 20 win for the SoCon.

[FUGameBreaker]

Fun Day! xthumbsupx

[UpstateBison]

YES. Furman beat Colgate by THIRTY last year IN NEW YORK. somehow I don't think Colgate would win in Greenville where we are undefeated this year - just as Wofford (and Colgate is NOT Wofford)- when we TROUNCED them last year at their place... I mean Wofford beat us in Spartanburg both times last year and lost by 20 in Greenville today. I don't see how a team that we beat by 30 on the road comes into Furman and wins.

Stinks for the whole SoCOn really. That might have been a top 20 win for the SoCon.

Great win today but the Colgate game is not comparable. I will just mention beating Elon in the playoffs last year. Would you like to discuss this years game? I like the SoCon but it is down this year. Very surprising to me.


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[Reign of Terrier]

Great win today but the Colgate game is not comparable. I will just mention beating Elon in the playoffs last year. Would you like to discuss this years game? I like the SoCon but it is down this year. Very surprising to me.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf the only measure you're going by is OOC wins, then yes the socon is down. But thats a limited measure.

The conference standings are shaping up to look similar to last year in terms of the amount of wins the teams in any given place have. There's going to be less separation at the top and the names of the teams will be different.

The only team that is definitely worse than last year is Western Carolina

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[FUGameBreaker]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1051200806135857152

[Schism55]

Big win 'Dins! Congrats xdrunkyx

[FUGameBreaker]

Big win 'Dins! Congrats xdrunkyx


Thank you Schism xthumbsupx

[FUGameBreaker]

Great win today but the Colgate game is not comparable. I will just mention beating Elon in the playoffs last year. Would you like to discuss this years game? I like the SoCon but it is down this year. Very surprising to me.


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The Elon game this year is a good example of what happens to a team (Furman) when they don't have their starting QB
Just look at what happened to Elon playing without their starting QB at Delaware yesterday, it makes a world of difference

[PaladinNation]

Clay Hendrix's post game comments were telling, against Clemson and Elon they put in an offense that they thought the two freshmen Qbs could handle. The ETSU game was the first time we saw the playbook starting to open, then in the Western game - Furman started to work in its tailbacks abilities to run and catch.

Clay continued by saying we now know what we have on offense, he noted Roberts and the freshmen are getting more comfortable and are running the offense well in practice.

I'm sitting on the fence about the rest of the season… I think week by week Furman becomes a tougher out.

Furman is three deep at tailback with three very versatile players, as more teams now have to keep an eye on them, Furman's receivers and hybrid tight ends I bet have some big games ahead.

One new addition to the Paladins against Wofford was freshman Air Force transfer Carson Maples… Maples got a ton of snaps, it looks like they like him as a blocking back - he's a tree trunk 5-11 240.

[FUGameBreaker]

Clay Hendrix's post game comments were telling, against Clemson and Elon they put in an offense that they thought the two freshmen Qbs could handle. The ETSU game was the first time we saw the playbook starting to open, then in the Western game - Furman started to work in its tailbacks abilities to run and catch.

Clay continued by saying we now know what we have on offense, he noted Roberts and the freshmen are getting more comfortable and are running the offense well in practice.

I'm sitting on the fence about the rest of the season… I think week by week Furman becomes a tougher out.

Furman is three deep at tailback with three very versatile players, as more teams now have to keep an eye on them, Furman's receivers and hybrid tight ends I bet have some big games ahead.

One new addition to the Paladins against Wofford was freshman Air Force transfer Carson Maples… Maples got a ton of snaps, it looks like they like him as a blocking back - he's a tree trunk 5-11 240.


Yep Maples is a load for sure
Seems he is ahead of Gibson and Sanders now, with Dirks set to graduate that is good for our depth moving forward

[cx500d]

The Elon game this year is a good example of what happens to a team (Furman) when they don't have their starting QB
Just look at what happened to Elon playing without their starting QB at Delaware yesterday, it makes a world of difference


Of course it makes a world of difference, but the mark of a good team is to NOT have a team dependant on one person.

[FUGameBreaker]

Of course it makes a world of difference, but the mark of a good team is to NOT have a team dependant on one person.


That's just not true, maybe the mark of being the national champ, but being a good team or not can certainly ride on one QB at the FCS level
Its not ideal, but can certainly be relevant in many cases

[gofurman]

That's just not true, maybe the mark of being the national champ, but being a good team or not can certainly ride on one QB at the FCS level
Its not ideal, but can certainly be relevant in many cases

RIght, remember Alcorn State w Steve McNair... NDSU is a different animal. CMON - at FCS.. Hell, FBS - look at ALABAMA w the 'backup freshman' QB last year. Starter stays in game they probably lose to UGA in title game... Put in a different QB it's a whole new team. And they are rolling this year better than I have seen in a decade with him at QB. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc. - sometimes you just cant take next man up even at the NFL where the next guy is a freak of nature and a superstar in college.

Except Carson Wentz - he was easily replaced ... JUST KIDDING MAN xnodx

[AppApp]

nice game Dins

[FUBeAR]

So...I finally got around to watching the replay of the Woffy @ FU game last night. Really broke down the 1st half, but just, for the most part, watched the 2nd...

So as to not bury the headline & to no one’s surprise that FUBeAR would see it this way, that game was won AND lost in the trenches.

Last week I praised Woffy’s O-Line play to date, but I can guarantee that not one little bit of fun was had in the Woffy O-Line meeting room when they reviewed the FU game video on Sunday. They got their hindquarters handed to them and looked really, really bad in the process. Both OT’s were completely overmatched when trying to PassPro vs. FU’s OLB’s. If not for the Ref’s allowing horsecollar/clothesline blocks, so often, after the Woffy OT’s were beat, including flagrant ones by both OT’s on Woffy’s TD pass (their only score in the 1st half), this game could have gotten out of hand earlier & Newman may not have been able to finish. Yes, they were flagged for a few, including 1 not-even-close-to-being-holding (a ‘make-up’ call, maybe?), but it seems the SoCon refs just did not want to call them for holding on EVERY pass. The interior OL play was better, but not by much. FU’s DL techniques (that’s Coaching folks) and the speed /athleticism of the FU ILB’s, were foiling them at every turn. Jaylan Reid was ‘eating’ blockers, so they couldn’t combo up to the next level & he was grabbing grass, er, turf so they couldn’t get much, if any, movement when they were ‘forced’ to double-team him. Hodge, #51, played very well also & looks taller than 5-9. There was much more to it than that though. Talking about technique, on the 4th & 2, after the FU penalty on the punt, all 5 Woffy OLmen face-planted when FU’s DLmen ‘dead-legged’ them letting them use their own aggressive coming-off-the-ball against them as the 2 ILB’s did similarly by ‘ole-ing’ their blockers. As an OL Coach, I would blow ALL my gaskets...but it was funny to watch as an FU fan. And, it wasn’t an accident (that’s Coaching, folks). Also, if y’all recall some of the reviews we did of that Chatt video vs. Woffy’s O, there was no way those OLmen were going to catch up to FU’s LB’s. In fact, most of the time (but not always), an FU ILB had QB responsibility on the option & arrived at the ‘junction’ untouched and on Woffy’s side of the LOS. Wofford kids aren’t dumb though and they ARE pretty good Players, so I saw some improvement as the game went on, but they clearly were not prepared to deal with the techniques FU Players had been Coached to deploy, nor the speed/athleticism of all 4 FU LB’s. IMO, Woffy was a little ‘proud,’ and didn’t respond to being virtually shut down, appropriately, nor rapidly enough. I believe they would have been much better served to continue pounding Stoddard more & running much more misdirection & even a combination of those 2. Also, they should have realized they had no chance to effectively PassPro in the pocket.

On the other side of things. Looked like, to me, Woffy ran Cover 1 (Man Free) almost exclusively in the 1st half and changed up to some cover 2 in the 2nd. I believe their ‘answer’ to stop FU’s option game was to play that Cover 1 with the Free (FS) having QB responsibility...much like the ‘snake-eye’ Deep LB, I mentioned Chatt using. I think they thought #13 was going to be able to deliver such a full-speed-running-start shot on Roberts that it would knock him out of the game or at least seriously discourage him from running the option. The problems with that D are a) you have nobody in the deep middle floating if he’s up playing the QB on the option...which is sorta the design intent of it & b) your OLB’s are matched up in man coverage with the 1st back out on their side. Well, when those ‘backs’ are FU’s speedy #3 & actually WR’s...OLB’s are not going to be able to cover them...even if they don’t have those mental busts overplaying the run, as they did. Furman exploited this beautifully (that’s Coaching, folks). I was wondering why we didn’t see the TE (or other Retriever) exploiting that down the middle also , as we’ve seen so often in the past, but when you can match up sprinters vs. wrestlers, why not just enjoy that for a while. Upfront, Woffy is missing Horton badly. I think Brown misses him too. Still a tough D-Front, but FU minimized their impact with some solid, if not dominating, OL play (other than the OT’s still unable to effectively make their backside cutoff blocks), which included getting enough of the Woffy ILB’s to slow them down (unlike on the other side of the ball) & getting the ball to the edge where the OLB’s and Safeties were fairly discombobulated. Again, IMO, Woffy is relying too much on their ‘Dudes’ to do the things that they do/have done against lesser Teams, when they should, instead, be putting their Players in the best position to be successful without doing miraculous things. Be sound, not spectacular.

SUMMARY
1) Furman CLEARLY Outcoached Woffy in all phases
2) Woffy’s OL was unprepared/unable to deal with the Technique /Speed /Athleticism of FU’s Front 7.
3) Furman’s OL was solid enough to get the job done against Woffy’s depleted & improperly (IMO) deployed Front 7.

Thus, 34-14...Good Guys

[PaladinFan]

What he said.

[Reign of Terrier]

Everything you said kind of confirms my hypothesis of hubris.

When your coaches don't adjust until much too late on offense and your defensive gameplan depends on spectacular over sound, that's borderline lazy and suggests unjustified confidence (see: hubris). It looks like we came prepared to play the Furman of 2017. Maybe that was the strategy against 2017 Furman, which liked to pound the ball and run more option; it worked after all. We definitely got outcoached in this one, but I don't think it'll happen again.

[PaladinFan]

Everything you said kind of confirms my hypothesis of hubris.

When your coaches don't adjust until much too late on offense and your defensive gameplan depends on spectacular over sound, that's borderline lazy and suggests unjustified confidence (see: hubris). It looks like we came prepared to play the Furman of 2017. Maybe that was the strategy against 2017 Furman, which liked to pound the ball and run more option; it worked after all. We definitely got outcoached in this one, but I don't think it'll happen again.

I imagine if they had to do it over again, they might have gone to Miller Mosely and let him try to air it out a bit. Newman is a good QB, but mid-way through the second quarter you could sort of feel like Wofford wasn't going to beat Furman that day unless they did something different. I expect the Wofford coaches just kept waiting on things to get right, and they just never did.

I do think there is a level of hubris on the defensive end by just never getting out of your defensive alignment. Wofford didn't hide their coverage. Essentially, they signaled to Furman "we don't care if you know what we are doing, we are going to do it anyway." That's fine, but it didn't work.

Coaching is all part of it, hubris too. I think at some level Furman was just a better team than Wofford had seen to that point in the season.

Who knows, maybe it makes the Wofford staff that much better. Perhaps a humbled and hungry Terriers team is what the doctor ordered. I think Samford had already had their helping of humble pie this year. So did Furman.

[Reign of Terrier]

I imagine if they had to do it over again, they might have gone to Miller Mosely and let him try to air it out a bit. Newman is a good QB, but mid-way through the second quarter you could sort of feel like Wofford wasn't going to beat Furman that day unless they did something different. I expect the Wofford coaches just kept waiting on things to get right, and they just never did.

I do think there is a level of hubris on the defensive end by just never getting out of your defensive alignment. Wofford didn't hide their coverage. Essentially, they signaled to Furman "we don't care if you know what we are doing, we are going to do it anyway." That's fine, but it didn't work.

Coaching is all part of it, hubris too. I think at some level Furman was just a better team than Wofford had seen to that point in the season.

Who knows, maybe it makes the Wofford staff that much better. Perhaps a humbled and hungry Terriers team is what the doctor ordered. I think Samford had already had their helping of humble pie this year. So did Furman.

I think it's exactly what the doctor ordered. And when I say hubris, I mean hubris at all levels: coaches and players. Coaches didn't get beat on the LOS during the first half, players did. Coaches didn't bite on play fakes, players did. But when you sit around and believe THIS DRIVE WILL BE DIFFERENT...that's on the coaches. When you have the pregame pep talk talk about celebrating big plays...that's on the coaches.

When Conklin told the media we were too predictable on offense and in the postgame show talked about how Furman did an almost completely different gameplan than what we expected, you knew it started from the top. Heck, I was at the game and Terriers didn't even leave the locker room at the same time to start.

Would not be surprised at all if we lost tomorrow. I would be at a similar level of surprise if we beat the brakes off of ETSU.

[PaladinFan]

I think it's exactly what the doctor ordered. And when I say hubris, I mean hubris at all levels: coaches and players. Coaches didn't get beat on the LOS during the first half, players did. Coaches didn't bite on play fakes, players did. But when you sit around and believe THIS DRIVE WILL BE DIFFERENT...that's on the coaches. When you have the pregame pep talk talk about celebrating big plays...that's on the coaches.

When Conklin told the media we were too predictable on offense and in the postgame show talked about how Furman did an almost completely different gameplan than what we expected, you knew it started from the top. Heck, I was at the game and Terriers didn't even leave the locker room at the same time to start.

Would not be surprised at all if we lost tomorrow. I would be at a similar level of surprise if we beat the brakes off of ETSU.

I expect there is a lot of teaching moments for both players and coaches. I imagine there are many on Wofford's sideline who just expected to find a way to come back. To their credit, they have managed to do that a lot. You probably have to go back to 2015 to find the last time Wofford got their fannies whipped by a SoCon team. They've lost a few, but most are extremely close.

I expect a good game with ETSU. They will not present the defensive challenges Furman did, but have a very good defense that will likely keep them around in the game. This is arguably the biggest game for ETSU in decades.

[Reign of Terrier]

I expect there is a lot of teaching moments for both players and coaches. I imagine there are many on Wofford's sideline who just expected to find a way to come back. To their credit, they have managed to do that a lot. You probably have to go back to 2015 to find the last time Wofford got their fannies whipped by a SoCon team. They've lost a few, but most are extremely close.

I expect a good game with ETSU. They will not present the defensive challenges Furman did, but have a very good defense that will likely keep them around in the game. This is arguably the biggest game for ETSU in decades.And it's homecoming for Wofford after a bad loss and a long road stretch.

ETSU's strategy to stop the option was putting 9 in the box against the citadel. That won't work against Wofford

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[PaladinFan]

And it's homecoming for Wofford after a bad loss and a long road stretch.

ETSU's strategy to stop the option was putting 9 in the box against the citadel. That won't work against Wofford

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There's no one way to beat the option. It is a chess match between coordinators and constant adjustments in blocking and defending.

I don't think you will see ETSU run the same defense they did against the Citadel. I also don't think you'll see them do the same thing Furman did either. Wofford, of course, knows that too.

[FUBeAR]

And it's homecoming for Wofford after a bad loss and a long road stretch.

ETSU's strategy to stop the option was putting 9 in the box against the citadel. That won't work against Wofford

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Agree - that's why I predicted this. Well, that and what Paladin Fan said, and I don't think ETSU's O matches up very well with Wofford's D...and I think Woffy's Players are going to be playing with hate-hearts (for Furman), but I think ETSU gets the brunt of that hate.

ETSU @ Wofford - ETSU's solid D gets to see the option 2 weeks in a row, but Woffy's version is much more complex, diverse, and faster. The YardBarkers bounce back in a big way 49-14



There's no one way to beat the option. It is a chess match between coordinators and constant adjustments in blocking and defending.

I don't think you will see ETSU run the same defense they did against the Citadel. I also don't think you'll see them do the same thing Furman did either. Wofford, of course, knows that too.

Yep - and 1 other thing I forgot to mention earlier. FU was shifting their DLmen pre-snap on every down. This is a relatively common way to break up option blocking rules, but there was something about the way FU was doing it that looked different to me. They weren't moving a full-gap...or even a half-gap. I think they were just trying to create questions/doubt in the minds of Woffy's OLmen. "OK, He just shifted, So...Oh, wait...Did he move from a 4 to a 4i? Or is he still in a 4? I saw him move, but...HIKE...CRAP!!!!" Definitely a chess match out there...and I think Coach Staggs just may be the Bobby Fischer of the sidelines.

[Reign of Terrier]

Agree - that's why I predicted this. Well, that and I don't think ETSU's O matches up very well with Wofford's D...and I think Woffy's Players are going to be playing with hate-hearts (for Furman), but I think ETSU gets the brunt of that hate.

ETSU @ Wofford - ETSU's solid D gets to see the option 2 weeks in a row, but Woffy's version is much more complex, diverse, and faster. The YardBarkers bounce back in a big way 49-14




Yep - and 1 other thing I forgot to mention earlier. FU was shifting their DLmen pre-snap on every down. This is a relatively common way to break up option blocking rules, but there was something about the way FU was doing it that looked different to me. They weren't moving a full-gap...or even a half-gap. I think they were just trying to create questions/doubt in the minds of Woffy's OLmen. "OK, He just shifted, So...Oh, wait...Did he move from a 4 to a 4i? Or is he still in a 4? I saw him move, but...HIKE...CRAP!!!!" Definitely a chess match out there...and I think Coach Staggs just may be the Bobby Fischer of the sidelines.At running the risk of being overconfident two weeks in a row...I don't think ETSU scores 14 on us.

Also the option is an offense like any other. It only fails when you don't execute or adjust. Good defensive coordinators can win the chess match. Good option coaches can avoid being shut down most of the time.

I don't like it when people talk about the option as an all or nothing thing, like you either shut it down or you don't. No one in this thread suggested this, but there are a lot of terrier faithful who think this way. Its an excellent way to shut down discussion or remove the complexity of it. One of the problems I have had with our OC in the last ~8 years or so (yes this is a long time) is that we have failed to innovate on many occasions. It got worse when EB graduated. I have liked what I've seen this year but last week was a set back.

Conklin is one of those CEO like thinkers who gives and takes a lot of criticism (I don't think Ayers ever criticized our offense in the media like JC did last week). I'm hoping that mindset helps WL grow to an even better OC.

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[PaladinFan]

Just going back and watching some of the game as well. This doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but Furman put the pressure on in matchups early in the game.

On the first drive, Furman was able to get matchups by keeping the same personnel group (1 TE, 2 RB, 2 WR) and lining them up in different spots.

Expecting Wofford to run man coverage, Furman moved their TE several times to WR. At the same time, Furman moved their WRs into the backfield in traditional split back sets.

As I see it, Furman forced Wofford to play their best coverage guys (CB) against their TEs (who often just ran the coverage downfield). By lining Gordon up in the backfield, he was working against linebackers. That's a huge matchup problem for Wofford.

In fact, Gordon caught three balls on the opening drive. He lined up in the backfield on two of those receptions.