NDSU v JMU regular season game....

[Schism55]

https://twitter.com/MikeMcFeelyWDAY/status/1048241599132655616

[Professor Chaos]

If it was to go to Montgomery, AL for the FCS Kickoff (although I don't think that qualifies as a big-college or a pro stadium) I doubt either school was interested.

But this does give me the chance to pitch my FCS Champion's Classic idea again:

It would need 4 schools; let's say NDSU, JMU, Montana, and Jacksonville St (yeah I know I called it the "Champion's" classic but I'm really just looking for big fan bases that would travel). Opponents would rotate yearly over a 4 year period (so each team would play one of the others twice and the other two once). The venue would rotate between the nearest major metros for each school at a 30,000 seat or higher venue. For NDSU that metro would be Minneapolis, for JMU that would be DC/Baltimore, for Montana that would be Seattle, and for JSU that would be Atlanta. Play 2 games at the venue either on the same Saturday or one on Friday night and the other on Saturday. Easy travel for fans of the 3 "away" teams and awesome tailgating for the "home" team which leads to big crowds and a showcase for FCS football and, most importantly, profit! Provided they can get a partnership with the appropriate venues (easier said than done) who would say no that that?!?

[IBleedYellow]

If it was to go to Montgomery, AL for the FCS Kickoff (although I don't think that qualifies as a big-college or a pro stadium) I doubt either school was interested.

But this does give me the chance to pitch my FCS Champion's Classic idea again:

It would need 4 schools; let's say NDSU, JMU, Montana, and Jacksonville St (yeah I know I called it the "Champion's" classic but I'm really just looking for big fan bases that would travel). Opponents would rotate yearly over a 4 year period (so each team would play one of the others twice and the other two once). The venue would rotate between the nearest major metros for each school at a 30,000 seat or higher venue. For NDSU that metro would be Minneapolis, for JMU that would be DC/Baltimore, for Montana that would be Seattle, and for JSU that would be Atlanta. Play 2 games at the venue either on the same Saturday or one on Friday night and the other on Saturday. Easy travel for fans of the 3 "away" teams and awesome tailgating for the "home" team which leads to big crowds and a showcase for FCS football and, most importantly, profit! Provided they can get a partnership with the appropriate venues (easier said than done) who would say no that that?!?Hard pass. If we're in the FCS, it's to win National Titles. The tough OOC games don't set you up for success to that. NDSU learned that in 2016.

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[Reign of Terrier]

the logistics would be difficult for something like this because of geography + venue.

At the FCS level, with the exception of some HBCUs, a neutral venue of 30-40,000 probably won't turn out well. Most of the subdivision, with notable exceptions, has attendance south of 15k, and those that have north of that number are located thousands of miles away from the other schools who do, or already play in the same conference. So, you wouldn't see coequal turnout because geography would get in the way, even for a pre-planned game at the beginning of the season. OR you would possibly see that turnout, but it would be against a conference opponent (I'm thinking about the Dakotas) and why would you sacrifice that revenue for the novelty?

And, where would that venue be that wasn't already occupied by a school?

I imagine James Madison would be down for doing it in a venue of 40-50k somewhere in the Southeast if the opponent was Georgia Southern, App State, or one of the big-selling teams (because it would maximize attendance due to geography +turnout), but those teams no longer are at this level and there already isn't a venue like that that isn't occupied by a college football team already. That takes away from it IMO

Kickoff classic games are logistically bad aesthetics at this level.

[Professor Chaos]

Hard pass. If we're in the FCS, it's to win National Titles. The tough OOC games don't set you up for success to that. NDSU learned that in 2016.

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That's the prudent way of looking at it right now and this would almost have to be in lieu of an FBS which teams aren't going to be to be willing to give up. But if they all start having difficulties getting FBS games scheduled like NDSU has it could make sense financially and competitively. I admit it's mostly a pipe dream but ADs that can't get FBS games will have to think outside the box at some point to make up for that lost revenue.

[Reign of Terrier]

That's the prudent way of looking at it right now and this would almost have to be in lieu of an FBS which teams aren't going to be to be willing to give up. But if they all start having difficulties getting FBS games scheduled like NDSU has it could make sense financially and competitively. I admit it's mostly a pipe dream but ADs that can't get FBS games will have to think outside the box at some point to make up for that lost revenue.

You'd think they may go the Liberty route...

[jmu007]

Yeah this game proposal is old news. Neat idea, but so much going against it. Any future proposals will have trouble getting off the ground too, at least from JMU perspective, since JMU already has a FBS game on the books next 3 out of 4 seasons.

[Silenoz]

Hard pass. If we're in the FCS, it's to win National Titles. The tough OOC games don't set you up for success to that. NDSU learned that in 2016.

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???

Seems like your 2016 OOC is one of your best ever. Why wouldn't you want that every year? Or are you saying that has something to do with losing to JMU?...

[Professor Chaos]

???

Seems like your 2016 OOC is one of your best ever. Why wouldn't you want that every year? Or are you saying that has something to do with losing to JMU?...
That is a fairly popular excuse among our fan base as to why the 2016 team didn't win it all. The OOC schedule beat the team up too much, didn't allow the backups to get quality PT, and they never fully recovered. I don't buy it but the evidence is in favor of those that do I guess.

[JSUSoutherner]

Still don't understand the appeal of neutral site games. Bridgeforth and the Dome are two of the nicest venues in the FCS. Show them off.

[Silenoz]

Seems pretty silly to have to rationalize a once in a decade playoff loss when it was against the toughest FCS opponent you ever played. God help us if NDSU ever loses more than 0-1 games a year.

[Professor Chaos]

Still don't understand the appeal of neutral site games. Bridgeforth and the Dome are two of the nicest venues in the FCS. Show them off.
In this case I would guess the appeal was $$$$. It was a "promoter" who pitched it so they probably assumed they could get 30-40k tickets sold or more at wherever they planned on doing it allowing the schools to generate more revenue than they could with a home game at either venue. They certainly weren't going to get far pitching the competitive aspect of it.

[IBleedYellow]

???

Seems like your 2016 OOC is one of your best ever. Why wouldn't you want that every year? Or are you saying that has something to do with losing to JMU?...NDSU was extra beat up that year, and I would argue that we lost some huge playmakers from that team - playmakers who could have changed the outcome of games.

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[Silenoz]

NDSU was extra beat up that year, and I would argue that we lost some huge playmakers from that team - playmakers who could have changed the outcome of games.


Is there any real correlation between injuries and quality of FCS opponent? And can I assume you are against the Oregon game you have coming up? Or wish you hadn't played Kansas State or Iowa?

[ST_Lawson]

I would think a better possibility of this would be something like a "rotating H&H" between the 4 teams.
Each team plays two of the other teams each year, one home, one away. After 3 years, everyone has played at everyone else's place.
For example:

Year 1
NDSU at JMU
JMU at MT
MT at JSU
JSU at NDSU

Year 2
NDSU at MT
JMU at JSU
MT at NDSU
JSU at JMU

Year 3
NDSU at JSU
JMU at NDSU
MT at JMU
JSU at MT

Schedule them "back to back" so that they line up one game essentially right into the other (that's usually going to mean whatever games are out East play first, then the Central or MT time zone ones) and on back-to-back weekends. So, week 1 would be, for example: NDSU @ JMU and MT @ JSU, then the next weekend you'd have JMU @ MT and JSU @ NDSU.

Every team plays at every other team, and every team hosts every other team. Have them at the home stadiums of the teams, not neutral sites...these are most likely the 4 best stadiums/game day atmospheres in the FCS...show them off. You can't tell me that nearly every one of those games wouldn't sell out. Bonus points if you can convince ESPN to air them on ESPN2 or ESPNU or something.

Everyone would probably want a nice "cupcake" in the 3rd weekend though.

[JSUSoutherner]

I would think a better possibility of this would be something like a "rotating H&H" between the 4 teams.
Each team plays two of the other teams each year, one home, one away. After 3 years, everyone has played at everyone else's place.
For example:

Year 1
NDSU at JMU
JMU at MT
MT at JSU
JSU at NDSU

Year 2
NDSU at MT
JMU at JSU
MT at NDSU
JSU at JMU

Year 3
NDSU at JSU
JMU at NDSU
MT at JMU
JSU at MT

Schedule them "back to back" so that they line up one game essentially right into the other (that's usually going to mean whatever games are out East play first, then the Central or MT time zone ones) and on back-to-back weekends. So, week 1 would be, for example: NDSU @ JMU and MT @ JSU, then the next weekend you'd have JMU @ MT and JSU @ NDSU.

Every team plays at every other team, and every team hosts every other team. Have them at the home stadiums of the teams, not neutral sites...these are most likely the 4 best stadiums/game day atmospheres in the FCS...show them off. You can't tell me that nearly every one of those games wouldn't sell out. Bonus points if you can convince ESPN to air them on ESPN2 or ESPNU or something.

Everyone would probably want a nice "cupcake" in the 3rd weekend though.

I can't think of a more lit way to start 0-2 every year. Those would be some fun games.

[ST_Lawson]

I can't think of a more lit way to start 0-2 every year. Those would be some fun games.

You might start 0-2, but you're still likely to crush most of the rest of your conference. You guys play, what...an 8-game conference schedule? So you've got 3 OOC slots to fill, right? Make OOC game #3 a cupcake, go 1-2 OOC, then 8-0 or 7-1 in the OVC and you're 9-2 or 8-3 by the end of the season and solidly in the playoffs (even if you don't win the OVC outright). Plus there'll be much less of a SoS argument that you could be hit with at the end of the season if you host Montana and play at James Madison to kick things off.

EDIT - additionally, I've heard rumors of the Southland wanting to set up a OOC scheduling agreement with the MVFC like we already have with the Big Sky. Maybe us three conferences go in on something similar, but in trios.

Example: you have a trio of WIU, Central Arkansas, and Southern Utah (with three you'd have to do each individual game on separate weekends though), but...
Year 1: WIU @ UCA, then UCA @ SUU, then SUU @ WIU
Year 2: WIU @ SUU, then SUU @ UCA, then UCA @ WIU (so you essentially "flip" the rotation from the previous year)
Year 3: shuffle...maybe it's WIU with Cal Poly and SFA for the next two years, meanwhile NDSU is rotating with Southeastern Louisiana and Northern Arizona...or whatever.
These games wouldn't be the sell out games that the NDSU/JMU/JSU/MT rotation would be, but it'd allow a consistent scheduling agreement between the conferences...quality opponents every year...and one game home and one away (yeah, I know...NDSU ain't leaving the dome unless it's FBS or someone big like JMU, Delaware, or whatever). It's more of a thought experiment.

[KPSUL]

I would think a better possibility of this would be something like a "rotating H&H" between the 4 teams.
Each team plays two of the other teams each year, one home, one away. After 3 years, everyone has played at everyone else's place.
For example:

Year 1
NDSU at JMU
JMU at MT
MT at JSU
JSU at NDSU

Year 2
NDSU at MT
JMU at JSU
MT at NDSU
JSU at JMU

Year 3
NDSU at JSU
JMU at NDSU
MT at JMU
JSU at MT

Schedule them "back to back" so that they line up one game essentially right into the other (that's usually going to mean whatever games are out East play first, then the Central or MT time zone ones) and on back-to-back weekends. So, week 1 would be, for example: NDSU @ JMU and MT @ JSU, then the next weekend you'd have JMU @ MT and JSU @ NDSU.

Every team plays at every other team, and every team hosts every other team. Have them at the home stadiums of the teams, not neutral sites...these are most likely the 4 best stadiums/game day atmospheres in the FCS...show them off. You can't tell me that nearly every one of those games wouldn't sell out. Bonus points if you can convince ESPN to air them on ESPN2 or ESPNU or something.

Everyone would probably want a nice "cupcake" in the 3rd weekend though.

With a 24 team playoff occurring every year, there is absolutely no need to contrive something like this. Match-ups like this occur at the end of the season no need to replicate them in the beginning.

[ST_Lawson]

With a 24 team playoff occurring every year, there is absolutely no need to contrive something like this. Match-ups like this occur at the end of the season no need to replicate them in the beginning.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but Prof Chaos brought up his "FCS Champion's Classic" idea and I was just trying to figure out a way to make something like that work while packing stadiums and showing off the FCS. I agree that it's essentially like the "pre-playoffs" because more often than not, 3-4 of those teams will be in the playoffs anyway.

[JSUSoutherner]

You might start 0-2, but you're still likely to crush most of the rest of your conference. You guys play, what...an 8-game conference schedule? So you've got 3 OOC slots to fill, right? Make OOC game #3 a cupcake, go 1-2 OOC, then 8-0 or 7-1 in the OVC and you're 9-2 or 8-3 by the end of the season and solidly in the playoffs (even if you don't win the OVC outright). Plus there'll be much less of a SoS argument that you could be hit with at the end of the season if you host Montana and play at James Madison to kick things off.

EDIT - additionally, I've heard rumors of the Southland wanting to set up a OOC scheduling agreement with the MVFC like we already have with the Big Sky. Maybe us three conferences go in on something similar, but in trios.

Example: you have a trio of WIU, Central Arkansas, and Southern Utah (with three you'd have to do each individual game on separate weekends though), but...
Year 1: WIU @ UCA, then UCA @ SUU, then SUU @ WIU
Year 2: WIU @ SUU, then SUU @ UCA, then UCA @ WIU (so you essentially "flip" the rotation from the previous year)
Year 3: shuffle...maybe it's WIU with Cal Poly and SFA for the next two years, meanwhile NDSU is rotating with Southeastern Louisiana and Northern Arizona...or whatever.
These games wouldn't be the sell out games that the NDSU/JMU/JSU/MT rotation would be, but it'd allow a consistent scheduling agreement between the conferences...quality opponents every year...and one game home and one away (yeah, I know...NDSU ain't leaving the dome unless it's FBS or someone big like JMU, Delaware, or whatever). It's more of a thought experiment.

I mean our OOC schedule has never really been our issue. The OVC is 98% of our SOS problem. We have EWU, UTC, and UNA next year.

[Professor Chaos]

I would think a better possibility of this would be something like a "rotating H&H" between the 4 teams.
Each team plays two of the other teams each year, one home, one away. After 3 years, everyone has played at everyone else's place.
For example:

Year 1
NDSU at JMU
JMU at MT
MT at JSU
JSU at NDSU

Year 2
NDSU at MT
JMU at JSU
MT at NDSU
JSU at JMU

Year 3
NDSU at JSU
JMU at NDSU
MT at JMU
JSU at MT

Schedule them "back to back" so that they line up one game essentially right into the other (that's usually going to mean whatever games are out East play first, then the Central or MT time zone ones) and on back-to-back weekends. So, week 1 would be, for example: NDSU @ JMU and MT @ JSU, then the next weekend you'd have JMU @ MT and JSU @ NDSU.

Every team plays at every other team, and every team hosts every other team. Have them at the home stadiums of the teams, not neutral sites...these are most likely the 4 best stadiums/game day atmospheres in the FCS...show them off. You can't tell me that nearly every one of those games wouldn't sell out. Bonus points if you can convince ESPN to air them on ESPN2 or ESPNU or something.

Everyone would probably want a nice "cupcake" in the 3rd weekend though.
That would be pretty cool but scheduling 2 of those games a year in back-to-back weeks would make it an even harder sell. If they were going to do it that way it would be way easier just to schedule home/homes amongst each other without having to get all 4 to sign on. I just think having all 4 teams/fan bases in the same place would really sell tickets and lead to a fun tailgate and therefore a fun atmosphere kinda like those big time early season neutral court doubleheader matchups in college hoops.

It's a tough sell either way with probably way too many moving parts to ever get put together. It would take something like a successful big-time neutral field matchup between an NDSU and a JMU (like was rumored in the tweet in the OP) or some similar one-time event at a large venue and FBS matchups drying up even further to ever have a shot at happening.

[dewey]

Still don't understand the appeal of neutral site games. Bridgeforth and the Dome are two of the nicest venues in the FCS. Show them off.

I completely agree.


NDSU was extra beat up that year, and I would argue that we lost some huge playmakers from that team - playmakers who could have changed the outcome of games.

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I agree to this and think the OOC games didn't allow NDSU to get backups good playing time and that game experience matters when star players (such as Nick DeLuca and Nate Tanguay go down) late in the season when it matters the most.



I mean our OOC schedule has never really been our issue. The OVC is 98% of our SOS problem. We have EWU, UTC, and UNA next year.

Teams like NDSU, or the MVFC, and James Madison, or the CAA, have are basically the opposite of the JSU problem. The CAA & MVFC (probably Big Sky as well) teams have impressive SOS's so the 3 OOC games don't matter so much.

Dewey

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Is there any real correlation between injuries and quality of FCS opponent? And can I assume you are against the Oregon game you have coming up? Or wish you hadn't played Kansas State or Iowa?

No clue.

2016 NDSU had 2 top 10 FCS teams and a #11 FBS Iowa team then a tough 8 game conference schedule. You're saying NDSU needs to do that every year??

Having a weak conference schedule would be great but that doesn't happen in the Valley.

Back to the original topic.

Home/home would be fine but not at the expense of a home game. Potentially do it when there is no FBS game that year.

Neutral site? No way.

[Bisonator]

Seems pretty silly to have to rationalize a once in a decade playoff loss when it was against the toughest FCS opponent you ever played. God help us if NDSU ever loses more than 0-1 games a year.
Nobody's doing that but you'd have to be blind not to see that team didn't have the depth that some of our other teams had. Some of that was a direct result of not having a cupcake or 2 early in the year to get younger guys playing time. It's a little different when half your conference games are cupcakes like the BSC. xcoffeex

Let me know when Montana decides to play 3 top 15 opponents in OOC the same year.

[Bisonoline]

We were out played and out coached in that game. That's why we lost.

[Bisonator]

We were out played and out coached in that game. That's why we lost.
Absolutely.