What steps can be done to improve declining attendance in college football?

[ASU33]

Reading the AJC today and they were talking about how attendance is down across college football and that even Alabama has failed to sell out a game this season. How can FCS programs remedy this problem and are their steps that any of you guys' athletic departments have done to remedy this?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Here's a starter list,

1.) Win
2.) Win convincingly
3.) Play against competitive opponents
4.) Stop broadcasting games on the internet.
5.) Make your facilities tailgate friendly

[Sader87]

We had a couple of night games this decade against UMass and UNH that drew well, around 14-16K but we had to use portable, rental lights which may have off-set the rise in attendance. Haven't had a night game in 5 years now.

HC has tried all the usual "Kid's day" "Wisstahh day" etc but with no permanent lights, it really hasn't helped attendance. The only games that really draw anywhere around 10K today are Homecoming and Parent's Weekend.

[ASU33]

We had a couple of night games this decade against UMass and UNH that drew well, around 14-16K but we had to use portable, rental lights which may have off-set the rise in attendance. Haven't had a night game in 5 years now.

HC has tried all the usual "Kid's day" "Wisstahh day" etc but with no permanent lights, it really hasn't helped attendance. The only games that really draw anywhere around 10K today are Homecoming and Parent's Weekend.


Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sader87]

The Northeast is just not fertile ground for FCS football. Too many other options i.e. higher or lower division college football, professional football (if you're going to go to one game ovah the weekend), the other distractions other parts of the country deal with: more family/kid obligations than there were 25-30 years ago, availability to watch via TV/internet that largely didn't exist a generation ago. Many students aren't as interested in football compared to the 20th C, cell phones, crackdown on tailgating in many ways etc etc etc....the list goes on.

This has been discussed quite frequently on the Holy Cross board....really no "magic bullet" answer other than in our case, putting in permanent lights and start to win with some regularity which we really haven't done since we dropped scholarships in the 1980s. Even then, it's doubtful we'll evah approach the attendance we had then.

[Reign of Terrier]

Unpopular opinion: who cares?

So what if attendance is down a little bit? My school will never be a sell out environment because of our small alumni size and being in the shadow of 2 FBS programs in state.

Call me old fashioned, but the point of the game at the college level is to give athletes the opportunity to play the game and get an education.

Not everyone can win a national title or create the same level of enthusiasm. Obviously the business model should adapt and not be dependent on attendance as much. But really, one of things I love about FCS football *is* that it's kind of obscure and not as popular. The teams and athletes are respectable, but winning isn't such a focal point that it overshadows the important things.

(And that's why I don't like individual teams monopolizing the championships as they have of late, because it removes a bit of novelty out of the sport but that's another convo)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

I hear ya and don't disagree in general. My fear though, is that crowds/disinterest in general will continue to decline.

At what point do schools shelling out millions of dollars a year for FCS football, say enough is enough. See: BU, Northeastern and Hofstra lately in these pahhts.

[ElCid]

Here's a starter list,

1.) Win
2.) Win convincingly
3.) Play against competitive opponents
4.) Stop broadcasting games on the internet.
5.) Make your facilities tailgate friendly

I don't know. Those are ok, but what about the obvious?

1 Free beer
2. Scantily clad young ladies selling popcorn and peanuts
3. Half time poll dancing

Might work.

Seriously, football is under lots of pressure. Lots of other things to do. Plus, and I know people don't like to admit it, football has become something other than what it has been. The change has been steady but in the wrong direction. College football is a business now. By that I mean almost "first" a business. Not what was intended. Now it's NFL prep, multi million dollar coaching contracts, and bad boy behavior ignored in some cases depending on the player/school. If I am a luke warm fan or alum, do I want to spend my money on supporting that? Might gain some fans, especially the flashy big programs, but you will lose the average alum to other interests. They will still support their school, but fork out hundreds, or thousands each year? They will come only when it is the thing to do in a hot year, maybe.

The way to gain the steady fans again is for programs to not play fast and loose with the spirit of college students playing sports or having even the appearance of being nothing but an NFL farm team. Not a problem with FCS as much as FBS obviously, but even FCS programs can put program success over the primary purpose of attending college. How do non players, i.e., paying fans, relate to that. If anyone doesn't think that these issues don't affect program support, you are sadly mistaken. Have a clean, honest program, reasonable ticket prices and some pageantry and most schools will do fine. Give fans something of value they can't get via internet streaming. The MEAC does this well. And dare I say it, we do this well also. The camel is already in the tent in regard to internet viewing. Getting students to go to games is important as well. Students who go to games will become alumni who go to games.

Just some random thoughts.

[ASU33]

I don't know. Those are ok, but what about the obvious?

1 Free beer
2. Scantily clad young ladies selling popcorn and peanuts
3. Half time poll dancing

Might work.

Seriously, football is under lots of pressure. Lots of other things to do. Plus, and I know people don't like to admit it, football has become something other than what it has been. The change has been steady but in the wrong direction. College football is a business now. By that I mean almost "first" a business. Not what was intended. Now it's NFL prep, multi million dollar coaching contracts, and bad boy behavior ignored in some cases depending on the player/school. If I am a luke warm fan or alum, do I want to spend my money on supporting that? Might gain some fans, especially the flashy big programs, but you will lose the average alum to other interests. They will still support their school, but fork out hundreds, or thousands each year? They will come only when it is the thing to do in a hot year, maybe.

The way to gain the steady fans again is for programs to not play fast and loose with the spirit of college students playing sports or having even the appearance of being nothing but an NFL farm team. Not a problem with FCS as much as FBS obviously, but even FCS programs can put program success over the primary purpose of attending college. How do non players, i.e., paying fans, relate to that. If anyone doesn't think that these issues don't affect program support, you are sadly mistaken. Have a clean, honest program, reasonable ticket prices and some pageantry and most schools will do fine. Give fans something of value they can't get via internet streaming. The MEAC does this well. And dare I say it, we do this well also. The camel is already in the tent in regard to internet viewing. Getting students to go to games is important as well. Students who go to games will become alumni who go to games.

Just some random thoughts.


This is VERY true! Our students are on and off depending on the opponent but it's the same way for our entire fan base. A team like Texas Southern or Mississippi Valley rolls into town and we'll get around 8 or 9,000. Let Grambling, Jackson State, Southern, or Alcorn State roll into town and we draw 17,000+. This year we have an extremely odd home schedule. We opened up the season at home vs heated rival Tuskegee and got 23,000+, our next home game isn't until November 3rd against Texas Southern and we'll draw less than half of what we drew the first home game but the next week we play Jackson State and we'll get a very nice number for that one. Going 2 months between home games isn't exactly ideal for anyone.

[UAalum72]

FormerPokeCenter:Here's a starter list,

1.) Win Obviously only half the teams can do this
2.) Win convincingly Even fewer
3.) Play against competitive opponents Makes 1 and 2 harder
4.) Stop broadcasting games on the internet. Yeah, right
5.) Make your facilities tailgate friendly Maybe, but not every school is going to be willing, and it won't necessarily get people into the stadium anyway.

[DFW HOYA]

It's a simple formula, really. Give the fans an experience they can't get watching on TV.

It starts when they arrive and ends when they leave. As an example, take a look at these two halftime shows. Which one is worth your time and travel dollar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfj6YdtLJ8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRd6FPeuU1Q

Or this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXppKWSVf70

[Hammerhead]

Turn off the internet access on campus while the game is being played. :)

[PAllen]

Here's a starter list,

1.) Win
2.) Win convincingly
3.) Play against competitive opponents
4.) Stop broadcasting games on the internet.
5.) Make your facilities tailgate friendly

5 - absolutely correct. Make it an atmosphere that encourages folks to come out and spend a couple of hours with their friends and family.

4 - I disagree. Wider exposure yields more fans. While those fans may not attend every game, or even more than one a season, streaming or broadcasting games gets them out to a wider audience. If the only way to see your alma mater play a game is to trek 5+ hours to see them in person, you simply become a fan of a more accessible school or sport and never (or almost never) attend a game again. If you can stay connected and follow the team, you will make an effort to go see them play from time to time.

[JacksFan40]

As has been pointed out before, there’s way to many options in some places. Look at teams in the Northeast, the fans have the choice of going to an NFL game, NBA game, MLB, FBS game, or high school. Throw in all other activities, not many people want to watch FCS teams. I don’t see a fix coming, teams with high attendance like NDSU, Montana or even SDSU with 12k average, don’t have to compete with other options.

[cx500d]

Beer gardens at a reasonable price. Serve dorm meal plan meals at the stadium.

[JacksFan40]

It's a simple formula, really. Give the fans an experience they can't get watching on TV.

It starts when they arrive and ends when they leave. As an example, take a look at these two halftime shows. Which one is worth your time and travel dollar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfj6YdtLJ8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRd6FPeuU1Q

Or this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXppKWSVf70
I honestly expected the an Ivy school to have a better band than that.

[cx500d]

It's a simple formula, really. Give the fans an experience they can't get watching on TV.

It starts when they arrive and ends when they leave. As an example, take a look at these two halftime shows. Which one is worth your time and travel dollar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfj6YdtLJ8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRd6FPeuU1Q


Or this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXppKWSVf70

None, I go to watch a game, not the band.

[Cocky]

Reading the AJC today and they were talking about how attendance is down across college football and that even Alabama has failed to sell out a game this season. How can FCS programs remedy this problem and are their steps that any of you guys' athletic departments have done to remedy this?

UAT has announced plans to reduce the stadium capacity.

[No_Skill]

More selfie opportunities and the ability to have their opinions posted live on the video boards.

[Cocky]

Bourbon
Beer
BBQ
Wifi in stadiums that works
Cell Service that works
Night games especially when its hot
Stop the clear bag non sense
Allow open containers around the stadiums
Beer
Bourbon

[MR. CHICKEN]

None, I go to watch a game, not the band.

........BAND TAKES FIELD...........IT'S WHEN....AH PEE........&..... STALK.....DIVORCED SOCCER MOMS......BUYIN' [email protected] STAND..........................AWK!

[TheKingpin28]

Beer gardens at a reasonable price. Serve dorm meal plan meals at the stadium.That latter one especially. Make it so that this way the students have a reason to stay and convince others to come.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[cx500d]

........BAND TAKES FIELD...........IT'S WHEN....AH PEE........&..... STALK.....DIVORCED SOCCER MOMS......BUYIN' [email protected] STAND..........................AWK!
how did you know?

[MR. CHICKEN]

Beer gardens at a reasonable price. Serve dorm meal plan meals at the stadium.

......DRINKIN' AGE IN DELAWHERE.......21........FROSH 18......SOPH 19.......JR.....20.........SO OWN-LAH SRS.......AN' FLOUNDERS.......DRINK.........LEGALLAH.......MEAL PLAN @ DELAWHERE.....MANDATORY.....FROSH YEAR.......AFTER DAT.......MAIN STREET.....MUNCHIE HOLES.......DON'T THINK DEY WANT PEAS & CARROTS...........BRAWK!

[ngineer]

The Northeast is just not fertile ground for FCS football. Too many other options i.e. higher or lower division college football, professional football (if you're going to go to one game ovah the weekend), the other distractions other parts of the country deal with: more family/kid obligations than there were 25-30 years ago, availability to watch via TV/internet that largely didn't exist a generation ago. Many students aren't as interested in football compared to the 20th C, cell phones, crackdown on tailgating in many ways etc etc etc....the list goes on.

This has been discussed quite frequently on the Holy Cross board....really no "magic bullet" answer other than in our case, putting in permanent lights and start to win with some regularity which we really haven't done since we dropped scholarships in the 1980s. Even then, it's doubtful we'll evah approach the attendance we had then.

Yes, you cover most of the reasons in my view. Culture has changed. People have too many more diversions to spend "a whole" weekend going to a football game. Also, around here, a lot of competition with high school sports; but the biggest impact for me is the crack down on the tailgating/drinking and the games available for free on the internet. Now the kids sit in their dorms/frats and watch while drinking away.

[Panther88]

We will demonstrate how to increase when SU comes to PV for our home opener next Saturday. We have a “surprise” in store.

[Tim James]

Turn off the internet access on campus while the game is being played. :)

Looks like you're joking but its the truth, sadly. The only other way to increase attendance is to go back in time where technology was limited and we only had 3 tv channels to watch. That will increase attendance surely.

Seriously, I think its just the natural order of things. For example, I wouldnt be shocked if baseball goes the way of horse racing and boxing in less than 100 years from now. Football might fair better but they will need drastic rule changes in order to stay at the top. Now everyone stares at their phones all day long but eventually people could be walking around on the streets wearing VR helmets. Laugh at that but nothing would shock me. That might be the only way to get people to go outside due to technology making everyone stay inside. By that time going to a live sporting event might not even be a thing anymore.

[caribbeanhen]

Looks like you're joking but its the truth, sadly. The only other way to increase attendance is to go back in time where technology was limited and we only had 3 tv channels to watch. That will increase attendance surely.

Seriously, I think its just the natural order of things. For example, I wouldnt be shocked if baseball goes the way of horse racing and boxing in less than 100 years from now. Football might fair better but they will need drastic rule changes in order to stay at the top. Now everyone stares at their phones all day long but eventually people could be walking around on the streets wearing VR helmets. Laugh at that but nothing would shock me. That might be the only way to get people to go outside due to technology making everyone stay inside. By that time going to a live sporting event might not even be a thing anymore.

MLB stadiiums still pretty full, baseball not going anywhere anytime soon

[CHIP72]

MLB stadiiums still pretty full, baseball not going anywhere anytime soon

MLB attendance has been on a slow but steady decline for over a decade now. Attendance numbers over the last 20 years are also skewed due to the change in how attendance numbers are calculated (number of people in the park attending a game vs. number of paid tickets).

[PaladinFan]

MLB stadiiums still pretty full, baseball not going anywhere anytime soon

This "baseball is dying" trope is just dumb. There is no evidence for that. In fact, last year it was reported that baseball/softball had the highest level of youth participation across all team sports. https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/study-shows-youth-baseball-softball-participation-on-the-rise-051817

In fact, with the decrease in football's participation (which is, I think, undeniable), that will only increase the participation in baseball. If my kid was a five star athlete, would I encourage him to push for the NFL, where a career is usually only 3 years of unguaranteed money and possible risk of life altering injuries, or to baseball, where you can play for 15 years, make 10 times the money, and not suffer brain trauma.

[PaladinFan]

Oh, and my general feeling.

Football isn't as interesting. At both the FBS/FCS levels, the season just feels like a foregone conclusion.

At the FBS, there are only 4 teams (maybe) or so that actually have a realistic shot of winning anything. Realistically, it is just Alabama. Maybe Georgia. Those upper echelon teams can essentially pick any player they want around the country, and have extremely little chance of actually losing a football game until they play one another.


Bama right now is putting up 500+ yards and 50 points on everyone they play. There are no upsets anymore. Even Penn State/Ohio State, which was a good football game I'm told, doesn't really have national championship implications because whichever one of those teams ends up playing Alabama is going to lose by three touchdowns.

Football just has fewer storylines. There are no underdogs. The same "star" players currently in the NFL are the same guys that were the star players 10 years ago.

I like football - not as much as baseball, but I like football. I just see a steady decline in the sport and interest across the country. I still watch Furman play when I can, but barely watch any other games. It isn't must see TV.

[CHIP72]

My two cents:

*The biggest issue college football, especially at the DI-A/FBS level, is facing is the games take too long. There are too many stoppages in play for TV timeouts, play reviews, targeting penalty reviews, etc., in addition to the long-existing lengthy halftime breaks.

*Though this largely isn't a factor at the DI-AA/FCS level or lower levels, not having game start times set until less than two weeks before games so that conferences can kowtow to television networks is also a significant problem.

*College football in general has become overexposed, where there are literally dozens of games on television. Why go to one game in person when you can watch many games, including multiple games at the same time, on TV or the computer?

*This is a subtle thing, but IMO it impacts most sports and for that matter most cultural or social events, and that is what I'll call the rise of the introvert culture. (As someone who considers himself an introvert, I'm definitely not criticizing it; I'm just making an observation.) It used to be that in order to feel like you were part of your societal social group, you needed to go out and attend various activities because you were going to be by yourself all the time and disconnected from society otherwise. Now with the internet (the greatest invention in my lifetime IMO), people can socialize with other people via computer (both desktop/laptop computers and mobile pocket computers, aka smartphones) while physically spending time by themselves somewhere.

*One other subtle thing, somewhat related to the last two points, is that college football and for that matter sports in general (especially baseball) have become viewed as events to fit into your schedule, rather than events that are highlights of your schedule. Baseball is the best example of this; I attend at least 20-25 MLB and MiLB games per season, sometimes a little more than that, and I can't tell you how many people arrive late to and/or leave early from games, and in many cases aren't overly focused on the game when they are there. The paid attendance figures aren't impacted that much, but the in-stadium attendance figures early and late in games decline as a result of this mindset.

[WestCoastAggie]

I want WiFi in the stadium that works.

We just added a Beer Garden in the Old Aggie Stadium (Now BB&T Stadium) but I want to post a selfie of the drink to Instagram and it not take 15 minutes.

[Bison56]

My two cents:

*The biggest issue college football, especially at the DI-A/FBS level, is facing is the games take too long. There are too many stoppages in play for TV timeouts, play reviews, targeting penalty reviews, etc., in addition to the long-existing lengthy halftime breaks.

*Though this largely isn't a factor at the DI-AA/FCS level or lower levels, not having game start times set until less than two weeks before games so that conferences can kowtow to television networks is also a significant problem.

*College football in general has become overexposed, where there are literally dozens of games on television. Why go to one game in person when you can watch many games, including multiple games at the same time, on TV or the computer?

*This is a subtle thing, but IMO it impacts most sports and for that matter most cultural or social events, and that is what I'll call the rise of the introvert culture. (As someone who considers himself an introvert, I'm definitely not criticizing it; I'm just making an observation.) It used to be that in order to feel like you were part of your societal social group, you needed to go out and attend various activities because you were going to be by yourself all the time and disconnected from society otherwise. Now with the internet (the greatest invention in my lifetime IMO), people can socialize with other people via computer (both desktop/laptop computers and mobile pocket computers, aka smartphones) while physically spending time by themselves somewhere.

*One other subtle thing, somewhat related to the last two points, is that college football and for that matter sports in general (especially baseball) have become viewed as events to fit into your schedule, rather than events that are highlights of your schedule. Baseball is the best example of this; I attend at least 20-25 MLB and MiLB games per season, sometimes a little more than that, and I can't tell you how many people arrive late to and/or leave early from games, and in many cases aren't overly focused on the game when they are there. The paid attendance figures aren't impacted that much, but the in-stadium attendance figures early and late in games decline as a result of this mindset.

I can watch games from 11am until midnight on any Saturday, and I usually do. I have not went to a game because I wanted to stay home so I could watch another game that was on the air.

[Daytripper]

Turn off the internet access on campus while the game is being played. :)

This Right Here! There are too many other distractions these days for students. Used to be that the football game was the only thing to do on a Saturday. Now students stay in their dorms and play Fortnite.

[Bisonator]

Strippers?

[Professor Chaos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj-BaSYdQsc

[Bisonator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj-BaSYdQsc
Doesn't look like they can even buy fans. xlolx

[ElCid]

Bama right now is putting up 500+ yards and 50 points on everyone they play. There are no upsets anymore.

We will do our best to whittle that down a notch. Maybe if our defense shows up that is. But yeah, everything you said.

[ElCid]

My two cents:

*The biggest issue college football, especially at the DI-A/FBS level, is facing is the games take too long. There are too many stoppages in play for TV timeouts, play reviews, targeting penalty reviews, etc., in addition to the long-existing lengthy halftime breaks.

*Though this largely isn't a factor at the DI-AA/FCS level or lower levels, not having game start times set until less than two weeks before games so that conferences can kowtow to television networks is also a significant problem.

*College football in general has become overexposed, where there are literally dozens of games on television. Why go to one game in person when you can watch many games, including multiple games at the same time, on TV or the computer?

*This is a subtle thing, but IMO it impacts most sports and for that matter most cultural or social events, and that is what I'll call the rise of the introvert culture. (As someone who considers himself an introvert, I'm definitely not criticizing it; I'm just making an observation.) It used to be that in order to feel like you were part of your societal social group, you needed to go out and attend various activities because you were going to be by yourself all the time and disconnected from society otherwise. Now with the internet (the greatest invention in my lifetime IMO), people can socialize with other people via computer (both desktop/laptop computers and mobile pocket computers, aka smartphones) while physically spending time by themselves somewhere.

*One other subtle thing, somewhat related to the last two points, is that college football and for that matter sports in general (especially baseball) have become viewed as events to fit into your schedule, rather than events that are highlights of your schedule. Baseball is the best example of this; I attend at least 20-25 MLB and MiLB games per season, sometimes a little more than that, and I can't tell you how many people arrive late to and/or leave early from games, and in many cases aren't overly focused on the game when they are there. The paid attendance figures aren't impacted that much, but the in-stadium attendance figures early and late in games decline as a result of this mindset.


This is pretty accurate. Time was, when our stadium was frequently packed, and a lot of the men wore coat and tie and ladies wore dresses, especially on the big weekends. It was an event. Now, not so much. And late comers and early leavers are just a me generation thing for many events. A lot of people don't like crowds, traffic, etc. Anything to beat it.

[wapiti]

Don't charge an arm and a leg just to get in.

This includes the nickel and diming (or might it be 5 dollar and 10 dollaring) that goes on. Such as parking, and food & drinks.

[RootinFerDukes]

There's really not much you can do. It's an American culture shift with increasing excuses being made when in reality, TV has made the gameday experience easier for those that don't want to get up and out of the house, cheaper and with ready access to bathrooms and beer. Sometimes dealing with crowds can be a hassle, especially if it's to see mediocre, lower level football with pitiful crowds.

Many FCS fan bases are in the shadows of P5 and pro sports programs and that gap is only widening with each passing year.

Couple in the fact that the America middle class is fading away and staying at home, spending less money and dealing with less BS can be very enticing for those that are casually interested at best. I also think football as a whole is waning in interest throughout America with each passing generation. People are realizing it's a violent sport that is punish to your body and kids have no desire to play it as much anymore. It's showing with HS teams having to fold nationwide. I just saw a TV ad the other day saying "hey, football is great for boys and girls (cheerleaders). keep the tradition alive". Was such an ad ever necessary before?

[Daytripper]

This is pretty accurate. Time was, when our stadium was frequently packed, and a lot of the men wore coat and tie and ladies wore dresses, especially on the big weekends. It was an event. Now, not so much. And late comers and early leavers are just a me generation thing for many events. A lot of people don't like crowds, traffic, etc. Anything to beat it.

I'm not sure if you are being negative in defining the "me" generation or not, but it is just a different generation with different challenges and different interests and distractions. They are who they are just like we were who we were at that age. They aren't changing. The game has to adapt to them.

[bonarae]

This "baseball is dying" trope is just dumb. There is no evidence for that. In fact, last year it was reported that baseball/softball had the highest level of youth participation across all team sports. https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/study-shows-youth-baseball-softball-participation-on-the-rise-051817

In fact, with the decrease in football's participation (which is, I think, undeniable), that will only increase the participation in baseball. If my kid was a five star athlete, would I encourage him to push for the NFL, where a career is usually only 3 years of unguaranteed money and possible risk of life altering injuries, or to baseball, where you can play for 15 years, make 10 times the money, and not suffer brain trauma.

How about soccer, lacrosse? xchinscratchx

Wondering why most ex-FCS Northeast schools now have lacrosse and sometimes ice/field hockey in football's place...

[RootinFerDukes]

I hear ya and don't disagree in general. My fear though, is that crowds/disinterest in general will continue to decline.

At what point do schools shelling out millions of dollars a year for FCS football, say enough is enough. See: BU, Northeastern and Hofstra lately in these pahhts.

I do think in the coming decades, at all levels outside of the P5, even as high as the G5, you will see more teams choosing to fold due to a combination of being too deep in the red, apathetic fan bases and increasing levels of too many scholarships to offer per recruit quality. As HS programs close nationwide, that pool of available recruits in your region keeps dwindling. It'll only further widen the gap of talent from the top and the bottom, as players will want to play as high up as they can go, leaving scraps for lower level programs.

I think we're already seeing it in FCS. We've got 4-5 true top level programs, than a massive drop off in quality after that. No one can ever really compete with them consistently. Same in the P5 for that matter.

[RootinFerDukes]

5 - absolutely correct. Make it an atmosphere that encourages folks to come out and spend a couple of hours with their friends and family.

4 - I disagree. Wider exposure yields more fans. While those fans may not attend every game, or even more than one a season, streaming or broadcasting games gets them out to a wider audience. If the only way to see your alma mater play a game is to trek 5+ hours to see them in person, you simply become a fan of a more accessible school or sport and never (or almost never) attend a game again. If you can stay connected and follow the team, you will make an effort to go see them play from time to time.

Bingo. This x1000. If you take away video access, you'll actually lose fans, not gain them. A once a season attendee is better than nothing.

[RootinFerDukes]

Yes, you cover most of the reasons in my view. Culture has changed. People have too many more diversions to spend "a whole" weekend going to a football game. Also, around here, a lot of competition with high school sports; but the biggest impact for me is the crack down on the tailgating/drinking and the games available for free on the internet. Now the kids sit in their dorms/frats and watch while drinking away.

Yep. Cracking down on student tailgating is a colossal mistake. Don't piss off future alumni by ruining the attending experience while they're here. If someone does something illegal, arrest them. Don't take it away from tens of thousands of people because a handful of idiots do something they shouldn't.

[FUBeAR]

I want WiFi in the stadium that works.

We just added a Beer Garden in the Old Aggie Stadium (Now BB&T Stadium) but I want to post a selfie of the drink to Instagram and it not take 15 minutes.IMO, this starts to get at the heart of the issue. If FCS Teams desire to increase attendance, they have to start thinking of a Saturday in their stadium and on their campus as an All-Encompassing Event, instead of as a Football game. As somewhat of a purist, I don’t like it, but that’s too bad. It be what it be. Beer Gardens, Working WIFI, sit-down restaurants / sports bars (that are open during the rest of the week) with MANY TV’s, supervised FUN areas for kids, Corollary events on campus pre- & post-game with benefits related to game attendance, REAL Booster Club benefits tied to attendance & for bringing others, etc., etc., etc. Think of it as a Theme Park sort of mentality and the live game is just one of the many ‘exhibits/rides’ that get people and their families out of their living rooms & business peeps to bring their clients & associatiates (and their families) & on your campus / in your stadium.

[ASU33]

I want WiFi in the stadium that works.

We just added a Beer Garden in the Old Aggie Stadium (Now BB&T Stadium) but I want to post a selfie of the drink to Instagram and it not take 15 minutes.

The pain is having an electronic ticket and having to pull up the app an hour before you enter the stadium because it takes that long to pull your ticket due to awful cellphone service.

[Daytripper]

IMO, this starts to get at the heart of the issue. If FCS Teams desire to increase attendance, they have to start thinking of a Saturday in their stadium and on their campus as an All-Encompassing Event, instead of as a Football game. As somewhat of a purist, I don’t like it, but that’s too bad. It be what it be. Beer Gardens, Working WIFI, sit-down restaurants / sports bars (that are open during the rest of the week) with MANY TV’s, supervised FUN areas for kids, Corollary events on campus pre- & post-game with benefits related to game attendance, REAL Booster Club benefits tied to attendance & for bringing others, etc., etc., etc. Think of it as a Theme Park sort of mentality and the live game is just one of the many ‘exhibits/rides’ that get people and their families out of their living rooms & business peeps to bring their clients & associatiates (and their families) & on your campus / in your stadium.

^^^^^^^^^^

[RootinFerDukes]

Bitch about it all you want, younger Americans are connected to technology. There’s no way around that.

Failing to provide adequate cell phone or WiFi service DIRECTLY impacts their willingness to be there. Either adjust or deal with the consequences (disinterest and declining attendance).

[walliver]

I think a big factor is game length and pacing.
Games take too long and there is a lot of standing around. Media timeouts drag on forever it seems. Instant replay takes a long time, and in some cases the replay calls are worse than the ones they overturn.

The concussion issue is not going to go away either. I like many here, played organized football in elementary school. In fact, Jerry Richardson was one of the coaches of my team. Now, most similar kids are playing soccer. As they age, many of them are progressing to that northeastern sport where they hit each other with big sticks, lacrosse. These kids are not growing up attending football games, and when they do become interested in football, are most likely going to root for Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, or Stanford.

What is worse, is that some of the more popular football schools are now limiting student tickets so they can sell more profitable tickets (it is a big issue at Clemson, not at Wofford).

The long term outlook for football is one of slow decline. Demographics don't help with the growth of a hispanic population that may show much more interest in soccer. It may be a slow boring game, but at least they don't stand around doing nothing for long periods of time.

[fmftballmgr]

At Murray last weekend they had Family weekend. They had a bigger crowd then I expect since they were 0-3. The biggest thing to help MSU is having a winning team.
Getting a descent wifi in the stadium would also help. They have kept concessions prices low. They try to have contest between the frats and sororities at the games. Also they need more promotion outside the murray area.

[MR. CHICKEN]

walliver...."The long term outlook for football is one of slow decline. Demographics don't help with the growth of a hispanic population that may show much more interest in soccer. It may be a slow boring game, but at least they don't stand around doing nothing for long periods of time".


.....NUFFIN'....MO' EXCITIN'.......DEN UH TIME-OUT...TA ICE DUH KICKER.....FO' WINNIN' 3.........'CEPT MAYBE.....DUH DANCE TEAM.........BRAWK!

[Derby City Duke]

Unpopular opinion: who cares?

So what if attendance is down a little bit? My school will never be a sell out environment because of our small alumni size and being in the shadow of 2 FBS programs in state.

Call me old fashioned, but the point of the game at the college level is to give athletes the opportunity to play the game and get an education.

Not everyone can win a national title or create the same level of enthusiasm. Obviously the business model should adapt and not be dependent on attendance as much. But really, one of things I love about FCS football *is* that it's kind of obscure and not as popular. The teams and athletes are respectable, but winning isn't such a focal point that it overshadows the important things.

(And that's why I don't like individual teams monopolizing the championships as they have of late, because it removes a bit of novelty out of the sport but that's another convo)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I think we should care -- how many athletic departments, despite running overall red numbers, fund the vast majority of their other sports using revenues generated by football and men's basketball?

Our attendance average will be down this year at JMU because one home game was moved to Thursday night due to weather concerns. We still drew in the neighborhood of 18K (actual, not tickets sold), but as it was our home opener it would have been almost 25K in the stadium on Saturday.

[BEAR]

1. Advertise the stinkin' games! Back in 2008 or so we had our best attendance. But you heard about the games on the TV and radio ALL WEEK! We don't do that anymore.
2. Sell beer.
3. Let the fans tailgate instead of limiting them on different fun aspects of it! Reducing hours for tailgating and sound levels of music and signage restrictions SUCK.
4. Cancel deer season. Buck the buck!
5. Fundraise to get more events DURING the games! Concerts, band performances, etc. Also get fans in the stands involved with things on the field. Cash for kicks. Silly cameras tricks on the big board.

I swear I am going to get 30 of my cousins from Europe to come here and force these hand-sitters to stand up and chant ALL GAME LONG. Especially on critical downs. I may not like futbol but dang their fans know how to party before, during, and after a game!

[kdinva]

The pain is having an electronic ticket and having to pull up the app .

F That.

[Sader87]

I get a kick out of how hunting season decreases attendance in some parts of the country.

No judgement, just laughingly picturing Ivy and Patriot League fans flailing around in the forest for the most part, shooting at one another by mistake rather than at the deer. xrotatehx

[IBleedYellow]

I get a kick out of how hunting season decreases attendance in some parts of the country.

No judgement, just laughingly picturing Ivy and Patriot League fans flailing around in the forest for the most part, shooting at one another by mistake rather than at the deer. xrotatehx

Hunting season is a legit excuse out here. It's noticeable, too.

[Sader87]

Oh, I don't doubt it is....it's just an amusing "visual" to me, picturing East Coast elites shooting deer instead of going to the game at Princeton, Harvard etc

[Reign of Terrier]

Oh, and my general feeling.

Football isn't as interesting. At both the FBS/FCS levels, the season just feels like a foregone conclusion.

At the FBS, there are only 4 teams (maybe) or so that actually have a realistic shot of winning anything. Realistically, it is just Alabama. Maybe Georgia. Those upper echelon teams can essentially pick any player they want around the country, and have extremely little chance of actually losing a football game until they play one another.


Bama right now is putting up 500+ yards and 50 points on everyone they play. There are no upsets anymore. Even Penn State/Ohio State, which was a good football game I'm told, doesn't really have national championship implications because whichever one of those teams ends up playing Alabama is going to lose by three touchdowns.

Football just has fewer storylines. There are no underdogs. The same "star" players currently in the NFL are the same guys that were the star players 10 years ago.

I like football - not as much as baseball, but I like football. I just see a steady decline in the sport and interest across the country. I still watch Furman play when I can, but barely watch any other games. It isn't must see TV.

I think the foregone conclusion argument is solid. With football you have less games, so the teams that build a dynasty by necessity lose less often and win more convincingly.

I'm a patriots fan, but man, if you're in the AFC and don't root for Pittsburgh or Denver in the last ~5 years so, you had nothing to cheer for really.

At the college football level, Bama is starting to kill the novelty at FBS and NDSU had pulverized it at the FCS level. NDSU's success is no longer good for the subdivision, I'm sorry that will trigger some people.

A lot of people will say that the success of team x, y, or z will make other teams "up their game" but I literally have no idea what that means and haven't seen any measurable way of demonstrating that.


IMO, this starts to get at the heart of the issue. If FCS Teams desire to increase attendance, they have to start thinking of a Saturday in their stadium and on their campus as an All-Encompassing Event, instead of as a Football game. As somewhat of a purist, I don’t like it, but that’s too bad. It be what it be. Beer Gardens, Working WIFI, sit-down restaurants / sports bars (that are open during the rest of the week) with MANY TV’s, supervised FUN areas for kids, Corollary events on campus pre- & post-game with benefits related to game attendance, REAL Booster Club benefits tied to attendance & for bringing others, etc., etc., etc. Think of it as a Theme Park sort of mentality and the live game is just one of the many ‘exhibits/rides’ that get people and their families out of their living rooms & business peeps to bring their clients & associatiates (and their families) & on your campus / in your stadium.

And, at the FCS level, this just isn't feasible for 90% of the teams.


I think we should care -- how many athletic departments, despite running overall red numbers, fund the vast majority of their other sports using revenues generated by football and men's basketball?

Our attendance average will be down this year at JMU because one home game was moved to Thursday night due to weather concerns. We still drew in the neighborhood of 18K (actual, not tickets sold), but as it was our home opener it would have been almost 25K in the stadium on Saturday.

well, I'm coming from this from the perspective of a small school.

Most of our athletic budget comes from either the general budget, the endowment, booster support, and FBS games (general budget I guess). For us, our success and continued existence at this level is tied to 1) winning and 2) FBS games. So long as FBS teams schedule us and we keep boosters interested, we'll be coming back. So I'm not worried about feasibility as it correlates to attendance because I'm willing to bet it has little to do with my school's attendance figures. I also don't think it figures into most FCS schools because 80% of them (or more?) haven't won a playoff game and likely haven't come close to selling more than ~10k (tops) tickets outside of once or twice a year.

I don't have any math to support this, but I really do think there's some nostalgia bias at this level. I'm willing to bet we've always had half-empty stadiums for most of the subdivision for most of its history.

[Reign of Terrier]

As a wofford person I'm reflexively antipathetic to attendance numbers because we have a top program in our conference and we still won't sell more than 4-6,000 home seats for a playoff game. Part of that is because there are less than 30k (or 20k?) living alumni and we're second fiddle to FBS teams and we've only been consistently successful in the last 15 years or so, but after seeing our playoff turnout against Furman on ESPN3 last year in the playoffs, I've just given up on hoping for other people to care (while still going to 4-7 games a year)

[CHIP72]

Oh, I don't doubt it is....it's just an amusing "visual" to me, picturing East Coast elites shooting deer instead of going to the game at Princeton, Harvard etc

Hey, I hear venison goes great with Grey Poupon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ASU33]

As a wofford person I'm reflexively antipathetic to attendance numbers because we have a top program in our conference and we still won't sell more than 4-6,000 home seats for a playoff game. Part of that is because there are less than 30k (or 20k?) living alumni and we're second fiddle to FBS teams and we've only been consistently successful in the last 15 years or so, but after seeing our playoff turnout against Furman on ESPN3 last year in the playoffs, I've just given up on hoping for other people to care (while still going to 4-7 games a year)

I'm amazed at the job that Wofford has done football wise over the last 15 years or so. Especially being a school with a student body so small. How much do you guys average usually?

[FUBeAR]

And, at the FCS level, this just isn't feasible for 90% of the teams.And that is the kind of narrow-minded, stinkin’ thinkin’ that will ensure that 90% of FCS Teams continue to watch their attendance figures decline. Everything I specifically mentioned, with the possible exception of enhancing WIFI, could be done without increasing costs by a single penny & most of them could be structured to create additional revenue streams.

My ‘inspiration’ for this kind of outside-the-box thinking is all of the amazing things that I have witnessed that Mercer University (not necessarily, Mercer Athletics and/or Mercer Football) has done to concurrently build the University & build/rebuild Macon - joint ventures, public/private/institutional partnerships, etc. The school & the city have undergone an unbelievable transformation in the 6 years that I have been closely observing. Re-starting Football has been part of that, but there many other examples. In fact, I don’t think they’ve really applied this type of approach, entirely, to Football Game Days...yet. I’m sure there are many more exciting things to come.

YOU GOTTA BELIEVE IT TO ACHIEVE IT, YT!

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm amazed at the job that Wofford has done football wise over the last 15 years or so. Especially being a school with a student body so small. How much do you guys average usually?

I am 100% skeptical of all attendance numbers we release. I think the average announced attendance is like 7,000. But I think that's bull****, because the stadium in theory seats, like, 18k (13k on the stands, 5k on the hill, with what I estimate being 8k on the home stand and 5k on the away stand). By that logic, that means that if you have the home stands half full, and the away stands half full, you'll have about 7k in attendance, with ~4k on the home and 2.5k away.

We rarely have the away stand half full, and rarely have the home stand half full and we even more rarely have both half full. So whenever I see anything listed above 7k (and it's not homecoming) I call bull****.


And that is the kind of narrow-minded, stinkin’ thinkin’ that will ensure that 90% of FCS Teams continue to watch their attendance figures decline. Everything I specifically mentioned, with the possible exception of enhancing WIFI, could be done without increasing costs by a single penny & most of them could be structured to create additional revenue streams.

My ‘inspiration’ for this kind of outside-the-box thinking is all of the amazing things that I have witnessed that Mercer University (not necessarily, Mercer Athletics and/or Mercer Football) has done to concurrently build the University & build/rebuild Macon - joint ventures, public/private/institutional partnerships, etc. The school & the city have undergone an unbelievable transformation in the 6 years that I have been closely observing. Re-starting Football has been part of that, but there many other examples. In fact, I don’t think they’ve really applied this type of approach, entirely, to Football Game Days...yet. I’m sure there are many more exciting things to come.

YOU GOTTA BELIEVE IT TO ACHIEVE IT, YT!

Wofford has actually done a lot to improve our tailgating atmosphere in the last 2 years or so. With the new Richardson basketball arena and frat row constructed by the football stadium, the tailgating environment feels more full on the home side. Compare that to when even I was a student and you had these two field that were kind of separate from each other and the fraternity row on the other side of campus, and it felt pretty disjointed and like less people were there than they were.

I enjoy it and I imagine more students/alums enjoy it more than when I was there just 2 years ago (winning helps), but I think cultivating a big fan base takes a lot that's outside of most administrator's/SID/AD's control.

Like, there's a reason why college football is the king in the southeast, and not the NFL. Outside of Florida and Texas, there's only 2 teams in the south (I don't count the Redskins as a southern team, even though they kind of are), 1 of which is only about 20 years old. From the 60s to today, for many people state college U was the "team" and they had the population to cultivate enthusiasm.

You see this in the big state schools at FCS because they too are the state schools and the team, but they don't have the population (the counties where Furman and Wofford are located have a bigger population than North Dakota).

So the schools in the southeast may not have to compete with the NFL like those in the Northeast or even Texas/Florida/California, but they have to compete *on the same day* as the SEC/ACC teams. So a lot of teams have to make up a lot of ground, and if they are like Wofford/Furman/Samford or even Mercer (but Mercer less so), they have these difficulties but not the butts to put into seats anyway. As a small digression, that's why Chattanooga, Western, and ETSU are good for the conference long term if they can cultivate more success: they have more people to get excited about it. But long-term success is important too. I think one of the reasons why Furman gets better attendance than Wofford, in spite of being pretty similar, is because they have a longer D1 history than Wofford. And even then, from what I read Furman's attendance is nowhere near what it used to be when they were good.

So maybe Wofford will one day pull in 12,000 a year, if we maintain our success for (sigh) another 15 years.

[FUBeAR]

I am 100% skeptical of all attendance numbers we release. I think the average announced attendance is like 7,000. But I think that's bull****, because the stadium in theory seats, like, 18k (13k on the stands, 5k on the hill, with what I estimate being 8k on the home stand and 5k on the away stand). By that logic, that means that if you have the home stands half full, and the away stands half full, you'll have about 7k in attendance, with ~4k on the home and 2.5k away.

We rarely have the away stand half full, and rarely have the home stand half full and we even more rarely have both half full. So whenever I see anything listed above 7k (and it's not homecoming) I call bull****.



Wofford has actually done a lot to improve our tailgating atmosphere in the last 2 years or so. With the new Richardson basketball arena and frat row constructed by the football stadium, the tailgating environment feels more full on the home side. Compare that to when even I was a student and you had these two field that were kind of separate from each other and the fraternity row on the other side of campus, and it felt pretty disjointed and like less people were there than they were.

I enjoy it and I imagine more students/alums enjoy it more than when I was there just 2 years ago (winning helps), but I think cultivating a big fan base takes a lot that's outside of most administrator's/SID/AD's control.

Like, there's a reason why college football is the king in the southeast, and not the NFL. Outside of Florida and Texas, there's only 2 teams in the south (I don't count the Redskins as a southern team, even though they kind of are), 1 of which is only about 20 years old. From the 60s to today, for many people state college U was the "team" and they had the population to cultivate enthusiasm.

You see this in the big state schools at FCS because they too are the state schools and the team, but they don't have the population (the counties where Furman and Wofford are located have a bigger population than North Dakota).

So the schools in the southeast may not have to compete with the NFL like those in the Northeast or even Texas/Florida/California, but they have to compete *on the same day* as the SEC/ACC teams. So a lot of teams have to make up a lot of ground, and if they are like Wofford/Furman/Samford or even Mercer (but Mercer less so), they have these difficulties but not the butts to put into seats anyway. As a small digression, that's why Chattanooga, Western, and ETSU are good for the conference long term if they can cultivate more success: they have more people to get excited about it. But long-term success is important too. I think one of the reasons why Furman gets better attendance than Wofford, in spite of being pretty similar, is because they have a longer D1 history than Wofford. And even then, from what I read Furman's attendance is nowhere near what it used to be when they were good.

So maybe Wofford will one day pull in 12,000 a year, if we maintain our success for (sigh) another 15 years.
How many Assisted Living Facilities are in Greenville & Spartanburg County? How many have Furman & Wofford Athletics sought out to partner with to figure out how to accommodate & attract their residents to come to their games? I bet the answer is 1 - the 1 that is on Furman’s campus (which was a cool idea using the kind of thinking that I’m saying needs to be applied to Football attendance). Do you think those folks are ‘rolling’ out to see Clemson & Carolina? I don’t. “Why in the world we we seek a (literally) dying fan base?” say the Stinker-Thinker. Well, they ain’t dead yet and if they are living in most of those facilities, they probably have disposable income. They also ‘travel in packs’ and they bring their adult children with them to ‘help’ them...and those adult children bring their kids....and if they have a good time...they come back next week. That’s just one example that just now popped into my head. Sure, you want you’re Alums to come, but a better plan is to draw a 50 mile radius around your stadium, get a complete breakdown of the domestic demographics within that radius, and figure out how to get ALL those people to come to 1 of my games...and want to come back.

[POD Knows]

The feminization of the US is responsible for the decline in football attendance. Please feel free to move this to the poli-board, but it is what it is, oh, and man caves are also responsible. What lazy POS would want to leave his cocoon to go to a game and actually have to mingle with the masses. They can stay at home, watch HD on their wall of vision, full multi screen paradise with surround sound on HD and eat home cooked food, all day long, get hammered, crawl into bed and not have to worry about the life sentence of DUI. WTF would anybody want to venture out it public, with all the risks involved, just to watch a game. I am beginning to wonder why I pay for season tickets and go to the games.

[caribbeanhen]

MLB attendance has been on a slow but steady decline for over a decade now. Attendance numbers over the last 20 years are also skewed due to the change in how attendance numbers are calculated (number of people in the park attending a game vs. number of paid tickets).

if only the rest of the US could be like Boston, Chicago (north side) and St Louis fans, cities that get baseball....! (there are several more but Miami aint one)

they need to do something about the length of games and all the pitching changes, no problem for me leaving in the 7th when I can get home and watch the replay and fast forward through all the down time.... technology is taking some of the fun out of being there so to speak

[Milktruck74]

Cost is a big factor for me. I went to a game (not my team) with my crowd (6 of us total wife and 15,13,5,3). #yo was free....the rest were $20 each to get in the gate, $10 to park (not close), Program was actually free. We had a few hotdogs, peanuts, popcorn and cokes....I was out about $180 to go to a game. Now, if I went to a FBS game, parking would have been $25 and the tickets would have been $50 each....They are pricing the average fan out of the game.

That said, the real question is why do students, that pay fees and get tickets for free, not attend?

[DFW HOYA]

MLB stadiiums still pretty full, baseball not going anywhere anytime soon

Check these attendance figures from 50 years ago this season. 40 percent of MLB didn't even draw 12,000 a game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-misc.shtml

[The Boogie Down]

At the college football level, Bama is starting to kill the novelty at FBS and NDSU had pulverized it at the FCS level. NDSU's success is no longer good for the subdivision, I'm sorry that will trigger some people.


At the risk of also triggering some people I'm gonna guess that at least 40% of all fans attending PL/IL games have never even heard of NDSU. Bison success has zero affect as to who decides to go to Fordham's homecoming, or family weekend, or any other game.

People that go to FCS games like their school enough to support it even though they're not playing big time football. As long as the weather is nice and the team is good, those people will show up. That's how it is now, that's how it's always been. NDSU won't get in the way of that, neither will Bama, neither will smart phones, or man caves or any other excuses thrown out there for the (non-existent) attendance drop in football.

[RootinFerDukes]

Cost is a big factor for me. I went to a game (not my team) with my crowd (6 of us total wife and 15,13,5,3). #yo was free....the rest were $20 each to get in the gate, $10 to park (not close), Program was actually free. We had a few hotdogs, peanuts, popcorn and cokes....I was out about $180 to go to a game. Now, if I went to a FBS game, parking would have been $25 and the tickets would have been $50 each....They are pricing the average fan out of the game.

That said, the real question is why do students, that pay fees and get tickets for free, not attend?

They don't realize or don't care that they're indirectly paying for athletics via their fees. When someone doesn't have financial skin in the game (i.e. paying for it), they are much more fickle about it. It's easy to take free things for granted.

[Sader87]

At the risk of also triggering some people I'm gonna guess that at least 40% of all fans attending PL/IL games have never even heard of NDSU. Bison success has zero affect as to who decides to go to Fordham's homecoming, or family weekend, or any other game.

People that go to FCS games like their school enough to support it even though they're not playing big time football. As long as the weather is nice and the team is good, those people will show up. That's how it is now, that's how it's always been. NDSU won't get in the way of that, neither will Bama, neither will smart phones, or man caves or any other excuses thrown out there for the (non-existent) attendance drop in football.

Not sure if you're trolling here Boogie but there has absolutely been a substantial drop in attendance for Ivy and Patriot League football ovah the last 25-30 years or so. Holy Cross and many of the Ivies were regularly drawing 15-20K through the mid 1980s....those schools rarely approach those levels today.

I'll grant you that attendance hasn't dropped as steeply from say 2008 to today....but your average crowd (non-Homecoming, Harvard-Yale, Lehigh-Lafayette etc) at many Ivies and Patriots is far below where it was in say 1988.

[ASU33]

They don't realize or don't care that they're indirectly paying for athletics via their fees. When someone doesn't have financial skin in the game (i.e. paying for it), they are much more fickle about it. It's easy to take free things for granted.

Our students are so fickle. When I was at ASU(2003-2006) our students rode the shuttle to see us play EVERY home game. Now the students show up but they only pay attention and get involved for certain home games. October 27th we play Alabama A&M in Birmingham for The Magic City Classic and our campus will be a ghost town. You can bet EVERY student will find a ride to Birmingham AND lodging for a few days. The next week we return home to play Texas Southern and outside of maybe 1,000 students you'll see kids hanging out at the dorms and all over campus but the next week we have Jackson State at home and the student section will be filled to capacity and they'll be intense and involved in the game.

[Model Citizen]

Check these attendance figures from 50 years ago this season. 40 percent of MLB didn't even draw 12,000 a game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-misc.shtml

Even as Detroit was burning down, they loved their Tigers.

[Model Citizen]

What steps?

From the standpoint of the FCS schools, it's simple. First, get rid of the FBS/FCS split.

Then, repeal all civil rights legislation. That would do wonders for the HBCUs' recruiting and fan support. xeekxxeekxxeekx

Well...you asked.

[Sader87]

Check these attendance figures from 50 years ago this season. 40 percent of MLB didn't even draw 12,000 a game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1968-misc.shtml

If you went 2 years prior to that, Boston would have been in the 12K range I'm guessing....Impossible Dream season of 1967 completely altered attendance at Fenway. Going back from 1966 throughout the 1950s, the Red Sox drew flies most years.

ETA: just checked, Sox averaged just ovah 10K in '66 and 8K in '65...amazing.

[ElCid]

That said, the real question is why do students, that pay fees and get tickets for free, not attend?

All of our cadets attend every home game....wonder why we can it and nobody else...oh yeah, it's a mandatory formation!

[The Boogie Down]

At the risk of also triggering some people I'm gonna guess that at least 40% of all fans attending PL/IL games have never even heard of NDSU. Bison success has zero affect as to who decides to go to Fordham's homecoming, or family weekend, or any other game.

People that go to FCS games like their school enough to support it even though they're not playing big time football. As long as the weather is nice and the team is good, those people will show up. That's how it is now, that's how it's always been. NDSU won't get in the way of that, neither will Bama, neither will smart phones, or man caves or any other excuses thrown out there for the (non-existent) attendance drop in football.


Not sure if you're trolling here Boogie but there has absolutely been a substantial drop in attendance for Ivy and Patriot League football ovah the last 25-30 years or so. Holy Cross and many of the Ivies were regularly drawing 15-20K through the mid 1980s....those schools rarely approach those levels today.

I'll grant you that attendance hasn't dropped as steeply from say 2008 to today....but your average crowd (non-Homecoming, Harvard-Yale, Lehigh-Lafayette etc) at many Ivies and Patriots is far below where it was in say 1988.

Not trolling. HC attendance is down significantly since the late '80s and early '90s because HC was significantly better then. Since those "glory years," Cross numbers have come down to earth and have been about the same for 25 years now. As a whole PL average too has been about the same for 25 years now. Lehigh and Bucknell are down a bit in that time. Colgate and Fordham are up. Lafayette is about the same. Georgetown has been added since then and while they've helped to bring the league average down, they're also up from what they were as a MAAC team.

In the IL, Brown has fallen off the table, but again, that's because they're Brown. Yale is up a bit, Princeton is down a bit but aside from Penn, everyone is basically where they were 25 years ago. Penn doesn't make sense. Back in the early '90s they used to average in the high teens. Now they don't even get a third of that! Can't explain why...

Generally speaking tho, teams are drawing now what they were drawing back then. Good seasons lead to more fans, poor ones to less. It's all pretty simple but I'll still do my best to complicate things by adding a new thread to this discussion xdrunkyx

[Sader87]

Stats don't lie (normally) it just seems that crowds at the NE Ivies when HC plays there are a far cry from where they once where (I also continually forget that 25 years ago was only 1993 :) ). HC-Harvard drew around 20K relatively recently (5 years?) on a Friday night but that seemed to be an anomaly.

You can't deny that if you watch these PL games online (HC included)...there are usually large swaths of empty seats/stands.

I took this pic early in the 2nd H this past Saturday. Visitor's side is nearly abandoned:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29139&stc=1

[The Boogie Down]

Stats don't lie (normally) it just seems that crowds at the NE Ivies when HC plays there are a far cry from where they once where (I also continually forget that 25 years ago was only 1993 :) ). HC-Harvard drew around 20K relatively recently (5 years?) on a Friday night but that seemed to be an anomaly.

You can't deny that if you watch these PL games online (HC included)...there are usually large swaths of empty seats/stands.

I took this pic early in the 2nd H this past Saturday. Visitor's side is nearly abandoned:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29139&stc=1

Fix the slant and you got a nice looking pic there. Obviously a nice looking stadium w/excellent site lines too but despite the empty visiting section (Nell never travels) the home side seems pretty crowded. At least between the 40s.

Anyways, while it's true that watching PL games (IL games too) is a bit depressing due to all the empty seats, it's also true that it's been that way for a long while. HC was different during the "glory years" but it's been about 7,000 fans per game for you guys ever since.

BTW, I too often forget that 25 years ago was only 1993 and not the 1800s! That said, 1993 was a pivotal year. Specifically for you guys since it was just the 1st or 2nd season of playing without scholarships. More generally though, it was also a pivotal time for I-AA. That was the year the Dayton Rule completely changed I-AA's footprint. A good starting point to compare football eras.

[ElCid]

It interesting to see everyone's take on what is causing the decline and how to fix it. It is probably a little bit of each. There is no one cause for the decline, but many. Nor is there a silver bullet to fix it all. Every school has a different situation and will require slightly different solutions.

From 1990 to 2003 we averaged over 15K a game. In 04 our home side was demolished and rebuilt. Since it opened in 06 (06-17), we have averaged just over 12K a game with a slow but steady decline. Maybe we should have kept the old crappy one? In our case winning or losing doesn't make a huge difference. Some of our highest years were 3-8 or 4-7 seasons. I think technology hit us a bit, plus the higher ops tempo for the military types (can't go to games if you are deployed, at least those close to Chucktown). Plus Charleston has gotten real busy the last few years. Some people, read me in that group, just don't want to deal with tourist masses and traffic. It's a mess to get around Charleston now. Last time I went to a game, it was bumper to bumper trying to get across the bridges. It took us over an hour to go what normally takes 15 minutes. So we have unique issues which may not be an issue or work at Furman, or Wofford, or Mercer. It's not as if Travelers Rest, Sparklecity and Macon are overflowing with tourists like Charleston. I went to every home game for 8 years and that was humping it from Middle Georgia every weekend while working. I am just as far now, and even retired I just can't get motivated to go the 5 hours each way up and down I-26. If I lived in Charleston I probably would go in any event. But as it is, it is much easier to watch on the Computer or catch a road game up closer to here. I will go to the WCU game in Cullowhee most likely. It's 35 miles through the forest.

[PAllen]

Fix the slant and you got a nice looking pic there. Obviously a nice looking stadium w/excellent site lines too but despite the empty visiting section (Nell never travels) the home side seems pretty crowded. At least between the 40s.

Anyways, while it's true that watching PL games (IL games too) is a bit depressing due to all the empty seats, it's also true that it's been that way for a long while. HC was different during the "glory years" but it's been about 7,000 fans per game for you guys ever since.

BTW, I too often forget that 25 years ago was only 1993 and not the 1800s! That said, 1993 was a pivotal year. Specifically for you guys since it was just the 1st or 2nd season of playing without scholarships. More generally though, it was also a pivotal time for I-AA. That was the year the Dayton Rule completely changed I-AA's footprint. A good starting point to compare football eras.

Boy they used to, at least to other PA teams.

[UAalum72]

Ivy League attendance was already in a long decline (remember Harvard didn't rebuild the end zone seats that brought capacity to 57,000 when they rusted in 1951) when the formal league was formed with restrictions so they could avoid the dangers of big-time football. They've succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. The league still averaged over 20,000 in the late 50s but that had dropped to around 13,000 when the double hit of I-AA reclassification and the NCAA losing control of TV rights occurred. Last year they averaged 8,229.

The Patriot League went from 5,656 to 4,926 in the same time, almost all in the last year (2016 was 5,694). Maybe their being so tied to the Ivy is acting as a drag on them, too. Of course, if Holy Cross had joined the Big East....

In 2003 (the oldest year on the NCAA site) average I-AA home attendance was 7,739 with 34 teams over 10K. In 2017 FCS average was 7,798 and 28 teams over 10K. So any great decline happened nearly a generation ago.

[DFW HOYA]

Stats don't lie (normally) it just seems that crowds at the NE Ivies when HC plays there are a far cry from where they once where (I also continually forget that 25 years ago was only 1993 :) ). HC-Harvard drew around 20K relatively recently (5 years?) on a Friday night but that seemed to be an anomaly. You can't deny that if you watch these PL games online (HC included)...there are usually large swaths of empty seats/stands. I took this pic early in the 2nd H this past Saturday. Visitor's side is nearly abandoned:


Bucknell University is a six hour drive to Mt. St. James on a good day. How many folks are getting up at 6:00 am to make that trip? About as many that are getting out of bed at 4:00 am in Worcester to visit Washington DC this November.

The good-old-days mentality regarding HC attendance usually revolved around regional opponents: Harvard, BU, UMass, UNH, Brown, and, of course, Boston College.

[BisonTru]

Make TV ****ty again. /Thread

[ST_Lawson]

I'm pretty sure most of our decline can be attributed to the decline in enrollment and the local population. If state funding is able to get back to something resembling "sustainable" for WIU, enrollment will hopefully bounce back up a bit. I don't think I'll ever see a capacity crowd at Hanson Field again, but if we can at least get back to where we were maybe 5 years ago, that'd be nice.

We topped off at an enrollment of 14,285 back in '74 when our average home attendance was 12,134. We set most of our single-game attendance records in the '70s when it was not uncommon for us to pull 16k+ for a game (that's essentially stadium capacity).

In the late '90s, we had around 13.5k students, but a decent number of those were at our other campus (about 90 minutes drive away) and our average attendance was generally somewhere around 9k. This is also when we had probably the best stretch of 4-5 years we've ever had...making the playoffs, winning the conference, single-digit rankings...those were not unusual things for us back then.

Since 2008, this is what has happened to our enrollment and home attendance: https://infogram.com/wiu-home-attendance-1h7z2lko9gjy6ow?live
And this is all while our team has gone from a couple of years of barely winning any games to 7-8 wins in a season and making the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons.

We obviously don't know what our overall home attendance or our eventual record for the season will be, but enrollment is even further down this fall from last year, so I'd imagine that we'll see a similar drop in home attendance. We've averaged 4,271.5 for our two home games so far...Family Day and Homecoming...the two most well-attended games of the year. I would not be surprised to see NDSU bring more fans to Hanson Field than we do in a couple of weeks.

[ngineer]

IMO, this starts to get at the heart of the issue. If FCS Teams desire to increase attendance, they have to start thinking of a Saturday in their stadium and on their campus as an All-Encompassing Event, instead of as a Football game. As somewhat of a purist, I don’t like it, but that’s too bad. It be what it be. Beer Gardens, Working WIFI, sit-down restaurants / sports bars (that are open during the rest of the week) with MANY TV’s, supervised FUN areas for kids, Corollary events on campus pre- & post-game with benefits related to game attendance, REAL Booster Club benefits tied to attendance & for bringing others, etc., etc., etc. Think of it as a Theme Park sort of mentality and the live game is just one of the many ‘exhibits/rides’ that get people and their families out of their living rooms & business peeps to bring their clients & associatiates (and their families) & on your campus / in your stadium.


At first blush that sounds interesting, but then, I think about all the other "things" people have to do. They have trouble committing 4 hours to attend a home game, let alone and entire day. Families have so much going on, now, as opposed to 40 years ago.

[Sader87]

Attendance is way down at most FCS schools in the Northeast, those that have played D1 or FCS football from 1945 on uninterrupted anyway.

I think it will hang on at the schools that can afford it for Homecoming, PR purposes etc...i.e the Ivies, some Patriots, some CAA schools...but many schools in the Northeast will take a hard look at the FCS-level and may decide to discontinue in the not too distant future imo.

[ngineer]

Attendance is way down at most FCS schools in the Northeast, those that have played D1 or FCS football from 1945 on uninterrupted anyway.

I think it will hang on at the schools that can afford it for Homecoming, PR purposes etc...i.e the Ivies, some Patriots, some CAA schools...but many schools in the Northeast will take a hard look at the FCS-level and may decide to discontinue in the not too distant future imo.

It will eventually come down to $$$$ and whether the schools figure they are getting any value out of spending so many dollars when various educational expenses keep rising. I see lacrosse as a rising sport that has many of the exciting attributes of football, with more constant action and a shorter time frame to play a game. Most lax games are over in two hours or less.

[kperk014]

A lot of people have lost their appetite for paying to see so many thugs. We know there is a lot of trash playing sports just by checking the police reports. The game has got to be damn good to overcome this problem. Trouble is, the quality of play has been getting progressively worse because of ncaa rules in college football and free agency in the pros. The ncaa has limited the amount of time coaches can spend with players, the amount of practice time, the amount of contact and so forth. Teams can't hit their stride till the season almost half over. And now college football is starting down the path that has led to nothing but mediocre football over the last 15 years in the nfl giving players the ability to roam the countryside. It won't effect the premier programs as much even though Clemson could already be in trouble because of the lax restraints on player movement. People like Joy Galloway say that's great for the players but when the quality of play drops far enough because of it and the fans began to tune out, they will be hurt as well.

The nfl has made so many rule changes over the last 30 years to favor the offense (especially the passing game) that a QB should be kicked out of football if he can't throw for more than 300 yards every game. The fact that they can't shows just how far the league has fallen. It's about as awful to watch as trying to watch an nba three point shooting contest that is described as basketball. Their attendance and popularity is going down and as someone who's be been a die-hard fan of football since the mid 60s, I could care less. I've got a 5 year old granddaughter who blows that crummy league out of the water every Sunday afternoon. xthumbsupx

[grizband]

A lot of people have lost their appetite for paying to see so many thugs. We know there is a lot of trash playing sports just by checking the police reports. The game has got to be damn good to overcome this problem. Trouble is, the quality of play has been getting progressively worse because of ncaa rules in college football and free agency in the pros. The ncaa has limited the amount of time coaches can spend with players, the amount of practice time, the amount of contact and so forth. Teams can't hit their stride till the season almost half over. And now college football is starting down the path that has led to nothing but mediocre football over the last 15 years in the nfl giving players the ability to roam the countryside. It won't effect the premier programs as much even though Clemson could already be in trouble because of the lax restraints on player movement. People like Joy Galloway say that's great for the players but when the quality of play drops far enough because of it and the fans began to tune out, they will be hurt as well.

The nfl has made so many rule changes over the last 30 years to favor the offense (especially the passing game) that a QB should be kicked out of football if he can't throw for more than 300 yards every game. The fact that they can't shows just how far the league has fallen. It's about as awful to watch as trying to watch an nba three point shooting contest that is described as basketball. Their attendance and popularity is going down and as someone who's be been a die-hard fan of football since the mid 60s, I could care less. I've got a 5 year old granddaughter who blows that crummy league out of the water every Sunday afternoon. xthumbsupx
I contend current student-athletes aren't getting into more trouble, you just didn't have access to the information about their transgressions in previous generations.

[Daytripper]

I contend current student-athletes aren't getting into more trouble, you just didn't have access to the information about their transgressions in previous generations.

xnodx

[Ivytalk]

Turn off the internet access on campus while the game is being played. :)
Beat me to it!xrotatehx

[Ivytalk]

I get a kick out of how hunting season decreases attendance in some parts of the country.

No judgement, just laughingly picturing Ivy and Patriot League fans flailing around in the forest for the most part, shooting at one another by mistake rather than at the deer. xrotatehx
*deeah:D

[Ivytalk]

Attendance is way down at most FCS schools in the Northeast, those that have played D1 or FCS football from 1945 on uninterrupted anyway.

I think it will hang on at the schools that can afford it for Homecoming, PR purposes etc...i.e the Ivies, some Patriots, some CAA schools...but many schools in the Northeast will take a hard look at the FCS-level and may decide to discontinue in the not too distant future imo.
Harvard doesn’t even have homecoming. Too plebeian for the bluebloods? Seriously, I think the posters on this thread have nailed most of the causes.