A Little Perspective

[FUGameBreaker]

A little perspective, Only team not on this FBS bottom feeders list that FCS has defeated this year is Temple (this list was made in the preseason)

FBS bottom ten (Including UTEP, Kansas, San Jose St., ECU)
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/bottom082218/utep-miners-rice-owls-lead-preseason-bottom-10

[Redbird 4th & short]

Give NC A&T AD a few more years to work thru this list for scheduling ... 2 down, 8 to go.

p.s. sorry, it was a lay up I couldn't resist

[ST_Lawson]

Illinois in the ORV section might get knocked onto the list after this weekend.


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[ASU33]

Give NC A&T AD a few more years to work thru this list for scheduling ... 2 down, 8 to go.

p.s. sorry, it was a lay up I couldn't resist

Your AD probably should work on beating them to the punch considering your 12-11 record over the last two seasons to go along with that 8-8 conference record.xcoffeex

P.S I couldn't resist neither.............................

[Schism55]

Hilarious Coastal is in there...welcome to eternal mediocrity Chanticleer fans

[Redbird 4th & short]

Your AD probably should work on beating them to the punch considering your 12-11 record over the last two seasons to go along with that 8-8 conference record.xcoffeex

P.S I couldn't resist neither.............................

We play more legit top 5 to top 20 teams in one season than NC A&T sees some decades .. so there's that aspect.

[ASU33]

We play more legit top 5 to top 20 teams in one season than NC A&T sees some decades .. so there's that aspect.

Well isn't that special!xthumbsupx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

We play more legit top 5 to top 20 teams in one season than NC A&T sees some decades .. so there's that aspect.

MEAC is the best conference in the FCS and the SWAC is second....

[FUGameBreaker]

Hilarious Coastal is in there...welcome to eternal mediocrity Chanticleer fans


Exactly xlolx

[wcugrad95]

Hilarious Coastal is in there...welcome to eternal mediocrity Chanticleer fans


Exactly xlolx

Throw Charlotte in there (along with several others in CUSA). Georgia Southern has also had several poor seasons after being OK when they first moved up. App State has done very well, but is it really better to win the Sun Belt (that includes a bunch of trips all over the country with the geography of that conference) that ends up with a Tuesday night bowl game in mid-December versus playing for national championships? I'm sure the guys who have made the jump probably bring in more money than they were before, get some broader exposure, ***maybe*** have more prestige as an FBS program that turns into a better applicant pool/better student population (debatable that it wouldn't be just as big to win as an FCS team over an FBS one), etc.

I'd much rather be App versus the other schools being mentioned here, but sometimes I wonder what the hind-sight decision would be and what kind of guidance they would give other programs like Kennesaw who I expect has eyes on "going up" in the future. I know there are still App and GaSouthern guys lurking on here - so what do you guys honestly think about your moves?

[Drblankstare]

Liberty and NM St play each other twice this year? WTF

[ST_Lawson]

Liberty and NM St play each other twice this year? WTF

NM State got dropped by the Sun Belt (like Idaho) but decided to try sticking it out as a FBS Independent.
Liberty leveraged their serious $$$ to convince the NCAA that they could swing it as an FBS Independent.
End result...they both REALLY needed games this year, so when an opportunity came along for a H&H agreement with the two in the same year, they took it.

It is what it is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Redbird 4th & short]

MEAC is the best conference in the FCS and the SWAC is second....
I have so much to learn about FCS football outside my little fishbowl xrotatehx

[FUGameBreaker]

Liberty and NM St play each other twice this year? WTF


Lol good catch!

[FUBeAR]

I know there are still App and GaSouthern guys lurking on here - so what do you guys honestly think about your moves?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55vZAITLI8

[dewey]

Throw Charlotte in there (along with several others in CUSA). Georgia Southern has also had several poor seasons after being OK when they first moved up. App State has done very well, but is it really better to win the Sun Belt (that includes a bunch of trips all over the country with the geography of that conference) that ends up with a Tuesday night bowl game in mid-December versus playing for national championships? I'm sure the guys who have made the jump probably bring in more money than they were before, get some broader exposure, ***maybe*** have more prestige as an FBS program that turns into a better applicant pool/better student population (debatable that it wouldn't be just as big to win as an FCS team over an FBS one), etc.

I'd much rather be App versus the other schools being mentioned here, but sometimes I wonder what the hind-sight decision would be and what kind of guidance they would give other programs like Kennesaw who I expect has eyes on "going up" in the future. I know there are still App and GaSouthern guys lurking on here - so what do you guys honestly think about your moves?

I will go to watch NDSU play for National Championship's but not some crap bowl game and I believe most NDSU fans on here are that way.

The second level of football, what ever the name, is right for NDSU IMHO.

Dewey

[dewey]

Liberty and NM St play each other twice this year? WTF

How long before New Mexico State comes back to the FCS? Another team for the Big Sky:D

Dewey

[walliver]

I have felt that App was a better fit for C-USA than the Sunbelt. They are currently a geographic outlier, and would likely have better rivalries with UNCC and ODU.
Kennesaw would be a great fit for the SunBelt, but they are unfortunately sitting in Georgia State's backyard.
Coastal is an interesting situation. At one time, the Sunbelt contacted 20 or so schools in the South, including small private schools, trying to gauge their interest in low-level FBS, apparently in a anybody-but-Liberty-or-JSU mode and there was little interest. CCU's academic reputation kept them out of the CAA and SoCon, so they made a jump for which they were poorly prepared. In retrospect, with Kennesaw's emergence and UNA's move up and PC's move down, the Big South as a football home would be a good fit for Coastal, although I don't see UNA being long-term A-Sun/Big South members.

[Reign of Terrier]

Throw Charlotte in there (along with several others in CUSA). Georgia Southern has also had several poor seasons after being OK when they first moved up. App State has done very well, but is it really better to win the Sun Belt (that includes a bunch of trips all over the country with the geography of that conference) that ends up with a Tuesday night bowl game in mid-December versus playing for national championships? I'm sure the guys who have made the jump probably bring in more money than they were before, get some broader exposure, ***maybe*** have more prestige as an FBS program that turns into a better applicant pool/better student population (debatable that it wouldn't be just as big to win as an FCS team over an FBS one), etc.

I'd much rather be App versus the other schools being mentioned here, but sometimes I wonder what the hind-sight decision would be and what kind of guidance they would give other programs like Kennesaw who I expect has eyes on "going up" in the future. I know there are still App and GaSouthern guys lurking on here - so what do you guys honestly think about your moves?

Let me be the counterpoint here: There is a good argument for going FBS, given the right circumstances. That's an unpopular argument on an FCS site, but let me make it.

When you look at the amount of teams that have won national titles, it's always going to be much smaller than those that haven't (the 80-20 rule applies to FCS and likely FBS as well). If your standard is "win a national title," then yes FCS is the best place for someone like NDSU.

But from the institutional perspective, football isn't the only thing. Money is good too. When you go FBS, if you do it right, your profit margins are going to be much better, and if you live in a somewhat populated region, it puts you at parity with bigger schools which is good for your branding as a college (I think this was App State's reasoning).

One of the reasons NDSU probably won't move up any time soon is because of the national titles, but also because they just make so much money from having 3 extra home games (9 home games?) each year, that the investment isn't much better for them moving up (possibly similar revenue, one less home game, no championship competition in the forseeable future, bigger travel costs, not to mention they would have to build a new arena to meet certain FBS standards but you can check me on that)

Obviously, college football exists for many programs just to win and the money flows, but at this level, money can take precedent in decision making. If App State or Georgia Southern were the flagship school of their state, and their state had the population density of Montana, Idaho, or the Dakotas, they would still be FCS.

But when you do an expected value test, for most teams, especially directional-state-universities, it's a better bet for their schools, athletic department budgets, branding, etc to go FBS.

[wcugrad95]

I agree that business-wise there is a compelling story. I also get the casual fan or general alums "feel like" it is a bigger deal. But my question on this board is really more toward the football fan for teams that have made the move. From a football perspective, is it better to be on more TVs, play more "named" schools, play in (and travel to) a bowl game versus playing in the playoffs, etc.?

It is easy to answer one way as an FCS program (particularly one that is not going FBS probably ever). But as a fan, I wonder if there are some insights by those schools on if they are happy, about the same, or hate it.

[SouthernEagle02]

I know there are still App and GaSouthern guys lurking on here - so what do you guys honestly think about your moves?

Well take this for what its worth. Even though I was whole hardheartedly against it when it was announced, now that we’re what 4 years into FBS play I actual agree that it was the right call for GS to make. From a purely football viewpoint, I boil the decision to exposure. Grant it, the past two seasons virtually killed all the momentum we had been building during the first two years, but playing terrible football will do that to any program regardless of classification.

Exposure wise, like it’s been stated, we’re not the state’s flagship school and while GS has been able to carve out a nice niche for itself in SE Georgia, 85-90% of the media coverage and average fan follows UGA here in Georgia. There’s absolutely nothing GS can do about that. God forbid UGA wins the NC this year….be 24/7 “dawg” barking. Ugh, I shutter at the thought.

However, while I’m certainly not the biggest fan of Tuesday/Thursday night games, when GS plays on a Tuesday/Thursday, it is somewhat good in knowing that GS doesn’t necessarily have to compete for an audience as much on a Tuesday/Thursday versus a Saturday. Yes, there's still some competition but at least we're not head to head with a P5 game. Maybe an NFL game but that's really it. GS has received more local (Atlanta) press and I’ve seen an increased national media coverage now than before as well. If we can string together a couple of good seasons, make and win bowl games and get back to the top of the Belt, then I do feel that we can get back to where we were two years ago. It is important to note that historically, GS would only get picked up by Atlanta media if GS played in and won NC games & even then it was iffy at best.

As far as the level of play, I would agree that the Sun Belt (while I feel is ahead of the SoCon by a wide margin) is on par with or slightly above par when comparing to top FCS conferences like the Big Sky or MVFC. That said, I do feel that being a G5 school in the Sun Belt has made it more palatable to other G5 AD’s to schedule a H&H with GS and maybe one day (and this is a uber big maybe) snag a H&H with a lower tired P5 school like Vandy or Duke. Heck S. Alabama snagged a home game with Miss St. so there’s hope.

Monetarily, while GS spent money to upgrade Paulson it has, again, brought exposure to GS in terms of student applicants increasing which leads to the academic profile being increased which is never a bad thing. There was money pain upfront and still today (who knew upgrading athletic facilities was so expensive), but as they say, you must spend money to make money. However, GS still operates on an extremely thin athletic budget for a G5 school, which does concern me even as an alumnus. But there again, outside of maybe 10-12 P5 schools, not many college athletic departments are able to run budget surpluses. Either they balance or they don’t. Holds true for D2 all the way up to low tiered P5 schools.

So, end the end, was it worth it? For GS I would say yes. Again, this is my take and I know there are still some GS fans that wish we were still FCS. I’m aware enough to realize that 99.7% of CFB fans don’t know who GS is and likely could care less about whether we won a random December bowl against another random G5 school or for that matter how many FCS NC's we won.

In the end, arguing the virtues of being FBS v FCS is pointless as again, 99.7% of CFB fans see schools outside of the Bama's, UGA's or So Cals of the CFB landscape as division 2 schools.

As an aside, would it be nice to be in NDSU or Montana’s shoes and only have to compete with one other instate FCS school? Absolutely. I don’t knock either institution (or other top FCS program) for staying FCS currently. They’re at the head of the table, and while it may be the kiddie table, it’s still the head  (I kid, I kid) xlolxxlolx

Lastly, my personal belief is that the decision for a school to reclassify athletic wise, will ultimately be a decision that’s forced largely based by the media providers and NCAA.

[katss07]

I, for one, would hate it if my FCS school moved up. I don’t care about exposure. Making the playoffs and getting into the quarterfinals or semis offer about as much exposure as a Tuesday Sun Belt or MAC game. The FCS is fine and I would rather see my team compete for the playoffs than a bowl game with little meaning to anyone. Luckily, Sam won’t be heading up any time soon due to lack of money and fan support needed at the FBS level. Outside of maybe JMU, I don’t think there are really any teams going anywhere. And even JMU seems hesitant.

Personally, I hope the Bison and the Dukes never leave.

[ST_Lawson]

If we go anywhere, it won't be up. There's no media around here to expose ourselves to...wait...that came out wrong.

[wapiti]

I was kind of surprised Georgia State was not mentioned.

If New Mexico State does drop to FCS I wonder if the Great West Conference would be revived?
and include CP, Sac, UC Davis, NAU, SUU, PSU, + one more (Maybe North Texas, or UTEP, or San Diego)

and Big Sky would be:
EWU, UM, MSU, Weber, NC, Idaho, ISU

[Reign of Terrier]

I agree that business-wise there is a compelling story. I also get the casual fan or general alums "feel like" it is a bigger deal. But my question on this board is really more toward the football fan for teams that have made the move. From a football perspective, is it better to be on more TVs, play more "named" schools, play in (and travel to) a bowl game versus playing in the playoffs, etc.?

It is easy to answer one way as an FCS program (particularly one that is not going FBS probably ever). But as a fan, I wonder if there are some insights by those schools on if they are happy, about the same, or hate it.

Just from observing FBS fans in my state, one of the benefits of FBS play is that 1/3 of everyone ends the year happy-ish. In the FCS, if you're a good team, there's a 96% chance you will end the season with a loss. If you're a good FBS team, that likelihood is much lower. Considering winning championships is only something a minority of schools do anyway, the appeal of a bowl game is ending your season on a positive note and the anticipation that comes with that.

You can ask App State fans. I've lurked on some of their boards and they don't regret the move up at all. In fact, they rank bowl games as just as fun as some of the best FCS playoff games they played.

That kind of makes sense when you think about it. People don't watch football because their team may win a championship. There's just something compelling about the sport and how fun it is to watch play-by-play. If you're good and you have a good environment it's a lot more fun, no matter who you play. I say this as someone who cheers for a team that will never go FBS and is lucky if 4,000 people are on the home side of things.

[katss07]

I was kind of surprised Georgia State was not mentioned.

If New Mexico State does drop to FCS I wonder if the Great West Conference would be revived?
and include CP, Sac, UC Davis, NAU, SUU, PSU, + one more (Maybe North Texas, or UTEP, or San Diego)

and Big Sky would be:
EWU, UM, MSU, Weber, NC, Idaho, ISU
I doubt a revival would work. Probably would join Southland.

[fmftballmgr]

being an OVC team I would not mind seeing Jacksonville state move up.

[Redbird 4th & short]

being an OVC team I would not mind seeing Jacksonville state move up.
Not sure if you were saying that in jest or out of respect ... but why not just try to beat them and enjoy the process of trying ?

I hope NDSU never leaves MVFC ... I like that they raised the bar, and I just want to beat them. The 2 years we tied for MVFC championship (2014 & 15) were the years we didn't play NDSU ... until losing in 2014 Natty .. cough cough. So we played identical conf schedules and tied them, because we never played them. We feel good about those to MVFC co-chamsionships, but would much rather have had chance to play and beat them in regular season.

[JacksFan40]

I was kind of surprised Georgia State was not mentioned.

If New Mexico State does drop to FCS I wonder if the Great West Conference would be revived?
and include CP, Sac, UC Davis, NAU, SUU, PSU, + one more (Maybe North Texas, or UTEP, or San Diego)

and Big Sky would be:
EWU, UM, MSU, Weber, NC, Idaho, ISU
Georgia State had a decent season last year and won the Cure Bowl or something, they've generated something of success.
Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal and Charlotte should never have left FCS, completely unprepared for it. App State on the other hand is doing great at the FBS right now, they've won the Sun Belt and are 3-0 in bowl games I think, their near win over Top 10 Penn State got them more attention than a FCS Title ever did, most people remember App for the win over Michigan not the titles.

[fmftballmgr]

Not sure if you were saying that in jest or out of respect ... but why not just try to beat them and enjoy the process of trying ?

I hope NDSU never leaves MVFC ... I like that they raised the bar, and I just want to beat them. The 2 years we tied for MVFC championship (2014 & 15) were the years we didn't play NDSU ... until losing in 2014 Natty .. cough cough. So we played identical conf schedules and tied them, because we never played them. We feel good about those to MVFC co-chamsionships, but would much rather have had chance to play and beat them in regular season.


90% in Jest. Since they came in the league we beat them once and I think it was their first year. But right now we have our own issues We have an interim President and an interim AD right now. The previous administration put all their eggs in the men's basketball basket. So until they want to put some support behind football we will be bottom of the OVC

[Reign of Terrier]

Georgia State had a decent season last year and won the Cure Bowl or something, they've generated something of success.
Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal and Charlotte should never have left FCS, completely unprepared for it. App State on the other hand is doing great at the FBS right now, they've won the Sun Belt and are 3-0 in bowl games I think, their near win over Top 10 Penn State got them more attention than a FCS Title ever did, most people remember App for the win over Michigan not the titles.

I think GSU was ready, as evident from the fact that they won 18 games in their first 2 seasons, tied for a conference title, and dominated the one bowl game they had.

They just didn't transition well when Willie Fritz left (apparently over pay? not sure about that). I agree with your assessment on Coastal and Charlotte and Georgia State, but GSU has a tradition to pull from and they regularly sell out Paulson still. They'll be okay, they just need to improve with their new coach at the helm.

I will say that App State/Georgia southern leaving for the FBS has hurt the FCS in that it's left a vacuum for NDSU to dominate.

[SouthernEagle02]

....Georgia Southern, Coastal and Charlotte should never have left FCS, completely unprepared for it. App State on the other hand is doing great at the FBS...

What has since happened to GS can easily happen to any team, in that another school comes calling offering mega bucks to your HC (what Tulane did with GS by offering a couple million plus super low success benchmarks to our HC at the time)your HC takes it and your AD makes a very poor choice in replacement HC. As I said earlier, the last two seasons virtually killed our momentum.

Regarding App, I do envy they success they're having but I tie that back to the fact they've been able to hold on to Saddersfield and the bulk of his staff since moving up. However, being envious of the success that App is having now, doesn't mean that a) GS shouldn't have moved up or b) that I wish for GS to return to the SoCon and FCS.

I understand where you're coming from, I honestly do. That's why I "lurk" around this board and still look at FCS scores on Saturday. I enjoy FCS ball (along with D2) and I would agree that here are merits to not reclassifying as FBS, but in the same vein there are also merits to reclassifying as FBS. Clearly the powers that be at GS found the merits in favor outweighed those not in favor and visa versa for the power that be at SDSU.


***BTW, GS did win the Sun Belt in our first year of FBS play (memory serves me, I believe we went undefeated in conference play) and won our first bowl game in our first try against the MAC champs Bowling Green in our second year of FBS play. :)

[JacksFan40]

What has since happened to GS can easily happen to any team, in that another school comes calling offering mega bucks to your HC (what Tulane did with GS by offering a couple million plus super low success benchmarks to our HC at the time)your HC takes it and your AD makes a very poor choice in replacement HC. As I said earlier, the last two seasons virtually killed our momentum.

Regarding App, I do envy they success they're having but I tie that back to the fact they've been able to hold on to Saddersfield and the bulk of his staff since moving up. However, being envious of the success that App is having now, doesn't mean that a) GS shouldn't have moved up or b) that I wish for GS to return to the SoCon and FCS.

I understand where you're coming from, I honestly do. That's why I "lurk" around this board and still look at FCS scores on Saturday. I enjoy FCS ball (along with D2) and I would agree that here are merits to not reclassifying as FBS, but in the same vein there are also merits to reclassifying as FBS. Clearly the powers that be at GS found the merits in favor outweighed those not in favor and visa versa for the power that be at SDSU.


***BTW, GS did win the Sun Belt in our first year of FBS play (memory serves me, I believe we went undefeated in conference play) and won our first bowl game in our first try against the MAC champs Bowling Green in our second year of FBS play. :)
I remember Georgia Southern came into the FBS red hot by winning the conference and then the bowl game a year later, it was a great start and I was happy for you guys immensely. I can see how coaching changes can destroy a team and it's pretty obvious it did for GS. Now when Georgia State has won 3 straight against Georgia Southern it makes you wonder if it's worth it. I enjoy FCS and D2 a lot obviously, but I really enjoy watching G5 schools with good programs like Boise State, UCF, Houston, Memphis etc.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing SDSU play in something like the MWC, if SDSU can't win a national title, then winning bowl games every year isn't much worse. Winning a bowl game gets more attention than losing to JMU 51-16 in the semifinals.

[SouthernEagle02]

Now when Georgia State has won 3 straight against Georgia Southern

Believe me, people in Statesboro are not happy about that.

[Southern Bison]

If we go anywhere, it won't be up. There's no media around here to expose ourselves to...wait...that came out wrong.Thanks, congressman from NY...

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[FUBeAR]

Now when Georgia State has won 3 straight against Georgia Southern...Oh....so they are 2 different schools? Who knew? I thought those were Fall intrasquad scrimmages when I saw those scores on Page 14 in the Atlanta Journal Sports Page in print this size.

[kperk014]

and UNA's move up and PC's move down, the Big South as a football home would be a good fit for Coastal, although I don't see UNA being long-term A-Sun/Big South members.

Where do you see UNA in the near future?

[WileECoyote06]

I remember Georgia Southern came into the FBS red hot by winning the conference and then the bowl game a year later, it was a great start and I was happy for you guys immensely. I can see how coaching changes can destroy a team and it's pretty obvious it did for GS. Now when Georgia State has won 3 straight against Georgia Southern it makes you wonder if it's worth it. I enjoy FCS and D2 a lot obviously, but I really enjoy watching G5 schools with good programs like Boise State, UCF, Houston, Memphis etc.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing SDSU play in something like the MWC, if SDSU can't win a national title, then winning bowl games every year isn't much worse. Winning a bowl game gets more attention than losing to JMU 51-16 in the semifinals.

Ya don't say. . . .

[DeltaDevil662]

Ya don't say. . . .

Like the Elvis version of Hound Dog pretending that the Big Mama Thornton version doesn't exist

[bonarae]

What about the non-South ex-FCS schools who moved up and are struggling (e.g. UMass)? I think in 10-15 years, the Minutemen may do an Idaho.

[ST_Lawson]

Where do you see UNA in the near future?

I think probably OVC, although depending on how they do, a case could probably be made for the Southern.


What about the non-South ex-FCS schools who moved up and are struggling (e.g. UMass)? I think in 10-15 years, the Minutemen may do an Idaho.

I think if Idaho does well with their move, in a few years you'll see UMass and NM State both strongly considering it. Since UMass began their transition to FBS in 2011, they are 20-65, with 8 of those wins coming against FCS teams and averaged 10.7k fans at home games last year (which would put them 23rd in the FCS). They really need to go back to the CAA, at least for football...be like Rhode Island and Richmond...CAA for football, A10 for everything else.

NM State has a tougher time being way out in the middle of nowhere with regards to the FCS. Unless they can somehow get an invite to the Mountain West, they probably should be FCS (as demonstrated by the need to play Liberty twice this year). Join the Big Sky, split into two divisions of 7 teams each (for football), play New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona State, UTEP, or Texas Tech for an FBS game each year...scheduling problems gone.

[Hammerhead]

For teams that are usually in the playoffs, it can also be more fun (and cheaper) to attend a playoff game in your home stadium than waiting weeks for a Wednesday bowl game.

[Lion1983]

I think probably OVC, although depending on how they do, a case could probably be made for the Southern.



I think if Idaho does well with their move, in a few years you'll see UMass and NM State both strongly considering it. Since UMass began their transition to FBS in 2011, they are 20-65, with 8 of those wins coming against FCS teams and averaged 10.7k fans at home games last year (which would put them 23rd in the FCS). They really need to go back to the CAA, at least for football...be like Rhode Island and Richmond...CAA for football, A10 for everything else.

NM State has a tougher time being way out in the middle of nowhere with regards to the FCS. Unless they can somehow get an invite to the Mountain West, they probably should be FCS (as demonstrated by the need to play Liberty twice this year). Join the Big Sky, split into two divisions of 7 teams each (for football), play New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona State, UTEP, or Texas Tech for an FBS game each year...scheduling problems gone.

I dont dre UNA going to the OVC even if they invite them after what went down the first go around.

I think UNA is in the ASun/Big South for a while. It's no worse than the OVC really.

[ST_Lawson]

I dont dre UNA going to the OVC even if they invite them after what went down the first go around.

I think UNA is in the ASun/Big South for a while. It's no worse than the OVC really.

I don't really know enough of the "backstory". I could see UNA staying with the Big South. I think with the emergence of KSU, addition of you guys, and some of the other things going on, the Big South has probably pulled pretty much even with the OVC in football, or will be in fairly short order.

[Mike296]

I don't really know enough of the "backstory". I could see UNA staying with the Big South. I think with the emergence of KSU, addition of you guys, and some of the other things going on, the Big South has probably pulled pretty much even with the OVC in football, or will be in fairly short order.

If anything the OVC might fold here within 10 years the way this conference is turning out. If the Murray State to MVC nonsense happens, JSU and APSU might be inclined to try for a conference move. I’d say Big South/SoCon for JSU and maybe CAA/Big South for APSU if they can sustain their success, if not then it really wouldn’t surprise me if APSU does what Savannah State are in the process of doing right now.


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Formerly known as Killamike259

[ST_Lawson]

if not then it really wouldn’t surprise me if APSU does what Savannah State are in the process of doing right now.

If crap continues to go sideways with the Illinois budget and (lack of) higher ed funding, we might be joining you.

[Mike296]

If crap continues to go sideways with the Illinois budget and (lack of) higher ed funding, we might be joining you.

Believe me when I tell you that you’d be glad not to be in Wisconsin, aside from Madison, not having another D1/D2 Football school really makes for terrible budget problems. If I’m not mistaken Illinois at least has a D2 and Minnesota has a plethora of D2’s so Wisconsin really is a big anomaly.


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Formerly known as Killamike259

[ST_Lawson]

Believe me when I tell you that you’d be glad not to be in Wisconsin, aside from Madison, not having another D1/D2 Football school really makes for terrible budget problems. If I’m not mistaken Illinois at least has a D2 and Minnesota has a plethora of D2’s so Wisconsin really is a big anomaly.


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Formerly known as Killamike259

Yes, we have U of Illinois-Springfield, which is DII. We also have Governors State, which is NAIA (neither have football though). Lots of private DII's and DIII's, but nobody else in the public area.

[Mike296]

Yes, we have U of Illinois-Springfield, which is DII. We also have Governors State, which is NAIA (neither have football though). Lots of private DII's and DIII's, but nobody else in the public area.

Just so you have an idea of how screwed up the Wisconsin athletics budgets have been in recent years, UW-Whitewater was a title game contender year in year out for at least 12 years, that changed when the “badger” effect (as I like to call it) kicked in. UW-Whitewater was considering a jump to D2 internally and guess who didn’t like that idea? That’s right Madison, who really needs some competition in the higher divisions in football. So right as Whitewater was considering going D2 guess what, Madison lobbied for budget cuts specifically to Whitewater and all but killed any chance they had to move. That’s Also why the coach who left for Buffalo left, he was left with half the budget he had and when the Buffalo job came up he took it and ran with it.


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Formerly known as Killamike259

[ST_Lawson]

Just so you have an idea of how screwed up the Wisconsin athletics budgets have been in recent years, UW-Whitewater was a title game contender year in year out for at least 12 years, that changed when the “badger” effect (as I like to call it) kicked in. UW-Whitewater was considering a jump to D2 internally and guess who didn’t like that idea? That’s right Madison, who really needs some competition in the higher divisions in football. So right as Whitewater was considering going D2 guess what, Madison lobbied for budget cuts specifically to Whitewater and all but killed any chance they had to move. That’s Also why the coach who left for Buffalo left, he was left with half the budget he had and when the Buffalo job came up he took it and ran with it.


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Formerly known as Killamike259

Just to be clear though...we went two years without a budget...like...at all. We didn't know if we were getting any money from the state, and if so, when.

[mvfcfan]

The only way Murray State is getting into the MVC is if Belmont changes their mind or if St Louis University wants in. I don't see either happening. The OVC should have added North Alabama when they had the chance. Heck they added SIU-E, so I'm not sure why they passed on UNA. The OVC is still a step up from the Big South / ASUN in my opinion, so I could see UNA joining.

The WIU poster might disagree, but I think the OVC would be a better home for WIU than the Summit League. Obviously the OVC is not as good as the MVFC, but WIU would immediately have a rivalry with EIU and potentially SIUE in other sports. The travel is also better. Both are one bid leagues for basketball, so I'm not sure why it would make much of a difference.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing my Sycamores try to join the OVC for football only. I just feel like we would compete better in that league and the travel is not as bad. For basketball though I would not want to leave the MVC.

[Derby City Duke]

I remember Georgia Southern came into the FBS red hot by winning the conference and then the bowl game a year later, it was a great start and I was happy for you guys immensely. I can see how coaching changes can destroy a team and it's pretty obvious it did for GS. Now when Georgia State has won 3 straight against Georgia Southern it makes you wonder if it's worth it. I enjoy FCS and D2 a lot obviously, but I really enjoy watching G5 schools with good programs like Boise State, UCF, Houston, Memphis etc.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing SDSU play in something like the MWC, if SDSU can't win a national title, then winning bowl games every year isn't much worse. Winning a bowl game gets more positive attention than losing to JMU 51-16 in the semifinals.

FIFY xthumbsupx. I know you were a much beter team than you showed that day.

[ST_Lawson]

The WIU poster might disagree, but I think the OVC would be a better home for WIU than the Summit League. Obviously the OVC is not as good as the MVFC, but WIU would immediately have a rivalry with EIU and potentially SIUE in other sports. The travel is also better. Both are one bid leagues for basketball, so I'm not sure why it would make much of a difference.

I may not like it, but I don't disagree. I wouldn't really mind going to the OVC for most sports, although I'd really miss playing a lot of the MVFC teams in football. We've got a long history with Illinois State and to a lesser extent Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa. Travel is better in some cases, although traveling to Nashville from here isn't really that much shorter than going to Brookings, for example. 7-8 hours for both. But we probably would be much more competitive in football most years, I'd imagine.

[Houndawg]

Let me be the counterpoint here: There is a good argument for going FBS, given the right circumstances. That's an unpopular argument on an FCS site, but let me make it.

When you look at the amount of teams that have won national titles, it's always going to be much smaller than those that haven't (the 80-20 rule applies to FCS and likely FBS as well). If your standard is "win a national title," then yes FCS is the best place for someone like NDSU.

But from the institutional perspective, football isn't the only thing. Money is good too. When you go FBS, if you do it right, your profit margins are going to be much better, and if you live in a somewhat populated region, it puts you at parity with bigger schools which is good for your branding as a college (I think this was App State's reasoning).

One of the reasons NDSU probably won't move up any time soon is because of the national titles, but also because they just make so much money from having 3 extra home games (9 home games?) each year, that the investment isn't much better for them moving up (possibly similar revenue, one less home game, no championship competition in the forseeable future, bigger travel costs, not to mention they would have to build a new arena to meet certain FBS standards but you can check me on that)

Obviously, college football exists for many programs just to win and the money flows, but at this level, money can take precedent in decision making. If App State or Georgia Southern were the flagship school of their state, and their state had the population density of Montana, Idaho, or the Dakotas, they would still be FCS.

But when you do an expected value test, for most teams, especially directional-state-universities, it's a better bet for their schools, athletic department budgets, branding, etc to go FBS.

NDSU is a "tweener" and in their position it is better to be a big duck in a small pond. I sure wouldn't want to have to convince Big 10 level players that they should come to Bum***** Egypt instead of Notre Dame or Michigan.

[Milktruck74]

NDSU is a "tweener" and in their position it is better to be a big duck in a small pond. I sure wouldn't want to have to convince Big 10 level players that they should come to Bum***** Egypt instead of Notre Dame or Michigan.

True...Showing off a ring is a big deal to recruits.

[walliver]

Where do you see UNA in the near future?

The obvious site is the OVC, although I guess that is up to JSU.

[superman7515]

How long before New Mexico State comes back to the FCS

New Mexico State was never FCS. Can't come back to where you've never been.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile... Maine takes down a G5 ex-FCS member in the Hilltoppers... another team having its ups and downs in the FBS.