Summary of Patriot League offseason 2005

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Will probably add another post later this week, so please check out my blog for a summary of every Patriot League team's offseason in 2005. Thought it would be interesting reading for those who can't wait for media day the start of summer practice.

* Coaching changes
* Key Graduation Losses
* Key member of incoming class
* Incoming Class Grades
* Spring Game summary/Spring Season writeup

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

/shameless plug

[Pard94]

Wow, you're the only person I've seen with anything negative to say about Lafayette's recruiting class. In fact, from what I've seen, most people consider it in the top three of the league. And you are a Lehigh guy. And, as everybody knows, you can't trust Lehigh folks. I'm going to take your overview with a grain of salt. Maybe you're right...but I doubt it.

Seriously, aside from your obvious bias, nice job. Thanks for the effort. Your blog is very informative.

[Fordham]

wow, LFN, well done!

[cosmo here]

Seriously, aside from your obvious bias, nice job. Thanks for the effort. Your blog is very informative.

Lafayette's starting tailback is junior Jonathan Hurt who started a number of games in the middle of the season, when McCourt was moved to fullback. D'Urso shared work with other underclassmen runners as well as senior Alfred Belton in the spring game and got in the end zone twice.

[colgate13]

Nice work LFN. Another key Colgate grab was Eric Tupta at LB. He should be a monster and could start as early as his sophomore year.

[DTSpider]

In addition you can add that Bucknell has hired Jim Reid to coach the D-line. Coach Reid did great things at Richmond both on and off the field. He's a great hire.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031784061397&path=%21sports&s=1045855934844

You could also mention the near addition of Richmond to the league. This deal was very close to happening and may come back up in a couple of years, particularly if the scholarhip stance changes.

[Fordham]

... and you should probably consider changing the name to 'richmondfootballnation.blogspot.com ...

;)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You could also mention the near addition of Richmond to the league. This deal was very close to happening and may come back up in a couple of years, particularly if the scholarhip stance changes.

I did mention it earlier in the offseason. I am planning to make another post when we get closer to Media Day concerning that sort of stuff.

You really think Richmond to the PL have chances of happening, especially with the Richmond faithful? The hugely negative reaction by the fans convinced me that it would never happen. The PL is a great match for Richmond otherwise, as long as Richmond/W&M becomes an annual OOC game. That and the Delaware/Villanova rivalry are two huge roadblocks to Patriot League membership.

I agree with henfan (on one of the other PL threads)- I'm a big fan of the combination: Richmond as an associate in football, VMI in all sports, when it comes to expansion.

[Pard94]

Lafayette's starting tailback is junior Jonathan Hurt who started a number of games in the middle of the season, when McCourt was moved to fullback. D'Urso shared work with other underclassmen runners as well as senior Alfred Belton in the spring game and got in the end zone twice.


...it's good to have you!

The biggest positive of our offseason, beyond the shadow of a doubt, is that Heffner (aka best coach in the PL by far) stayed with the Leopards. The man is a football god. Ron Zook at Illinois knew how good he is. Huge sigh of relief now that he has decided to call Easton his home for the long haul.

[LBPop]

I am really impressed with the effort and the presentation, LFN. I fully understand your "incomplete" grade on the Georgetown class. Apparently, Coach Benson does not like to hype the freshmen. I know he got a few real studs this year, so he does have some something to shout about...he just chooses not to. Of course, if he wins, nobody will remember how much information was released during the winter. Thanks for all your hard work.

[cosmo here]

...it's good to have you!

The biggest positive of our offseason, beyond the shadow of a doubt, is that Heffner (aka best coach in the PL by far) stayed with the Leopards. The man is a football god. Ron Zook at Illinois knew how good he is. Huge sigh of relief now that he has decided to call Easton his home for the long haul.

I agree, I think everybody is much more comfortable that Heff is still on board. Keeping him on the staff makes the loss of Bono, Ungrady and Lewandos easier to handle. It's also nice to have Buettner who got his medical year.

It's tough to forget Jonathan Hurt in a Lafayette preview, LFN :confused: Maybe you're hoping if you don't mention him, he won't show up at Goodman on Nov. 19 :)

[ngineer]

A pretty good analysis--especially the Georgetown portion--they COULD be big surprise with a potent offense--not enough to challenge, but enough to pull off an upset or two.
Lehigh's lack of a QB recruit is not big deal--this year. They have a nice arms and legs in the stable with Probst and Threatt.

[colgate13]

Apparently, Coach Benson does not like to hype the freshmen. I know he got a few real studs this year, so he does have some something to shout about...he just chooses not to.

Well now, Benson's not exactly mum on his feelings. His quote in Street & Smith went something like this:

"This league is very close, and we're as close as anybody", says Georgetown's coach Bob Benson, whose Hoyas went 3-8 and finished last in the league. "Lafayette doesnt worry me. We beat'em last year (2003) and came close this year (2004). Lehigh is the team to beat. Dont let anybody fool you."

Apparently he thinks that his team is on the verge of being able to hang with anyone in the league.

[MU Alum]

Thats a pretty bold statement from the Hoya head coach, I know they think they made improvements over the last year and have a new facility to move into, but that comment from the head coach is just bulletin board material for the rest of the Patriot especially Lafayette. I see Holy Cross and Georgetown battling it out at the bottom of the Patriot this season.

[colgate13]

I see Holy Cross and Georgetown battling it out at the bottom of the Patriot this season.

You and everyone else! We'll see how it pans out though. My gut tells me one of those two if not both beats someone other than each other... if you can follow that confusing logic!

Success for HC or G'Town will be finishing 5th or higher IMHO. I think HC has got a better shot this year and G'Town has a better shot in 2006. But that's just me.

[LBPop]

Well now, Benson's not exactly mum on his feelings. His quote in Street & Smith went something like this:

"This league is very close, and we're as close as anybody", says Georgetown's coach Bob Benson, whose Hoyas went 3-8 and finished last in the league. "Lafayette doesnt worry me. We beat'em last year (2003) and came close this year (2004). Lehigh is the team to beat. Dont let anybody fool you."

Apparently he thinks that his team is on the verge of being able to hang with anyone in the league.

Whoa! I hadn't seen that statement. For him, that's some bold stuff. Maybe he's challenging his kids who have not yet played up to their talent level. But until they settle the QB question and start to move the ball consistently, their excellent defense will be overworked and eventually fade against the PL...the entire PL.

[cosmo here]

LFN - I was hoping that you'd find a minute to work Hurt into your Lafayette profile. Otherwise, you've got a fine PL resource there :nod: . . looking forward to what else you come up with this year.

[cosmo here]

Wow, you're the only person I've seen with anything negative to say about Lafayette's recruiting class. In fact, from what I've seen, most people consider it in the top three of the league. And you are a Lehigh guy. And, as everybody knows, you can't trust Lehigh folks. I'm going to take your overview with a grain of salt. Maybe you're right...but I doubt it.

Think it's worth reposting Andy's post from the LFN comments board, for public consumption . . his thoughts on the 'Pards recruiting class seem to be right on, a counterpoint/rebuttal of LFN's ratings.

-- Chuck, nice job at a great time!

Rating the recruiting classes is risky business indeed, I appreciate your efforts, and I will offer some other opinions....

Colgate's class is head and shoulders above those of LU and Holy Cross--all three of which you grade equal at a B+. IMO Gate's is right there with Fordham.

Of course, I'll take issue with your rating Lafayette's class last in the league. Some of your facts used as a basis for the low rating are wrong. "With only 3 OL and 2 DBs, it's hard to call this class an unparallelled success." There are five OL and three terrific athletes at DB.

The class is only 24 strong because LC only loses 10 seniors from last year's team. With 10 all-state players, five starters in the NJ N-S all-star game, 4 players on the prestigious NJ FB coaches Super-100, the PLs only rep on NJs Governor's Bowl roster---a C+???. Here's a quick rundown on one of the top classes in the PL:

DT Jerrell Robinson--5.2 Rivals, offered by Stanford, Pitt and W. Mich.
DB Clecidor--5.2 Rivals, offered by Indiana, Army, Temple, Buffalo.
TE Mike Conte, Super 100 offered by Maine.
OL DJ Brown, Super 100, South Jersey LM of the year.
DB Ingram, Super 100, led county in scoring as Jr, second as Sr
LB Andy Romans 2nd team AS all groups
LB/FB Russo, 2x all NY state large school
WR/DB Shaun Adair, 4.9 Rivals, Super 100, super athlete
OL Orozco, 1st all north Jersey
3 good looking DE prospects in Mills, Babcock, Rhodes
2 all-state TBs, 2 230lb FBs

This is not a C+ class, Chuck, is this payback for your pre-season rating of LC above LU? lol

[colgate13]

LC's Robinson and Adair are good pick ups for them from Jersey.

Andy's a great contributor on the PL sites... I wish we could get him over here!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I will fix up some bits in my preview about Lafayette's class, but I stand by the fact that they are light in offensive linemen and DBs. There is no question that Russo got some greatly talented skill players, but IMO every class needs a certain amount of linemen and DBs (just to cover injuries, people who quit, etc.), and Russo didn't get them. Making this more important is the fact that the Leopards lost some great linemen in this year's class.

To me, Bucknell's class is similar in this regard. Lots of very talented RBs and position players, but no beef in the lines. This is in no way saying that the skill players they both got weren't superb (and I think Lafayette's were better than Bucknell's). They are. But I feel that the lack of linemen and DBs in this class may hurt down the line.

[cosmo here]

I will fix up some bits in my preview about Lafayette's class, but I stand by the fact that they are light in offensive linemen and DBs. There is no question that Russo got some greatly talented skill players, but IMO every class needs a certain amount of linemen and DBs (just to cover injuries, people who quit, etc.), and Russo didn't get them. Making this more important is the fact that the Leopards lost some great linemen in this year's class.

Lafayette signed a FB Joe Russo, but I think instead, you're thinking of Patriot League Coach of the Year Frank Tavani who is in his sixth season as head coach of the 'Pards.

Don't forget Jonathan Hurt either when you're in the editing room . .

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I fixed the preview a little (god I love blogs!). I did in retrospect think that the Leopards' incoming class grade was a bit harsh - they are at least equal with Bucknell. And I put Jonathan Hurt well about D'Urso now.

With Hurt and D'Urso, Lafayette has a couple of very good backs.

[Pard94]

...and say that Lafayette will have the strongest O-Line in the PL...as usual. The guys we have are decent and Heffner is that good.

[colgate13]

...and say that Lafayette will have the strongest O-Line in the PL...as usual. The guys we have are decent and Heffner is that good.

Define "as usual". I would offer up in 2003 that Colgate had the best O-line in the PL.

And I'll let the 2005 O line speak for themselves this season...;)

[LBPop]

Define "as usual". I would offer up in 2003 that Colgate had the best O-line in the PL.

And I'll let the 2005 O line speak for themselves this season...;)

As a future fan of the PL (didn't know that at the time) I only got to see that 2003 team on TV during their playoff run. (Come to think of it, I hope 89 wasn't too tough on you after the championship game.) I remember thinking that Branch was a load to handle, but I also remember thinking that he always seemed to be running "downhill". That says 'O' Line to me.

[Fordham]

Love the Lombardi quote, Pop.

[LBPop]

Love the Lombardi quote, Pop.

Thanks. He was a complex man and even though he spent a short time in DC coaching the Redskins before he died, he left a lasting imprint. The Skins frequently practiced at Georgetown during that season and Georgetown houses the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Center. If you decide to follow your Rams to DC in October, you can check it out.

[Fordham]

he was complex. If you haven't read "When Pride Still Mattered", I recommend picking it up. Great read, imo, even if you have no connection to Fordham ... not to mention a good reminder of what had to be the greatest assistant coach staff in history when Tom Landry was OC and Vince was DC of the NY football Giants.

Good stuff. The trip to DC is written in pencil right now, as my wife has family in the area that we're going to try to visit while also making the game. With a 4 month old at home, though, nothing's written in pen. Hopefully I'll see you there, though, as well as that new stadium.

[LBPop]

Yes, I have read the book. I watched the Packer teams of the 60's and probably saw those Giants teams to which you referred (I would have been very young). The coaches meetings must have been clinics.

I understand about the little one...it hasn't been that long for me. If you are coming down, let us know. The field turf is brand new and you'll see the beginnings of a quality facility--a bit undersized, but a big improvement.

[cosmo here]

I fixed the preview a little (god I love blogs!). I did in retrospect think that the Leopards' incoming class grade was a bit harsh - they are at least equal with Bucknell. And I put Jonathan Hurt well about D'Urso now.

With Hurt and D'Urso, Lafayette has a couple of very good backs.

LFN, didn't get a chance to look at the site earlier today. Glad you made those changes :) Lafayette does have five OL and three DB coming in. Of course with a large senior class this year, expect a 25-30 player freshman class next year.

[Andy]

So this is where all the football talk has gone. It sure isn't on the PL boards. I'm glad to be joining some of the best Patriot League fans around. I'm gonna start a new thread on the mine-field topic of rating the PL recruiting classes since LFN has got our juices flowing, soon to be followed by Colgate 13's site, and media day. Might as well start off here by pissing people off. Pls. check it out and help me get it right.

[Go...gate]

No sighting yet of Marky D. Lafayette, Gary or Raider Redhead....

And what about our old friend Towson Guy...whose answer to every issue was:

TOWSON WILL WIN BIG!!!!!! :rolleyes: :D

[Pard94]

So this is where all the football talk has gone. It sure isn't on the PL boards. I'm glad to be joining some of the best Patriot League fans around. I'm gonna start a new thread on the mine-field topic of rating the PL recruiting classes since LFN has got our juices flowing, soon to be followed by Colgate 13's site, and media day. Might as well start off here by pissing people off. Pls. check it out and help me get it right.


Andy, you've got to be kidding me?? I've all but begged fellow Pards to join me here on AGS for like a year now. I had given up all hope. Nice to have you here. This board is very informative and very entertaining. Enjoy!

[cosmo here]

Andy, you've got to be kidding me?? I've all but begged fellow Pards to join me here on AGS for like a year now. I had given up all hope. Nice to have you here. This board is very informative and very entertaining. Enjoy!

Hey, it's up to three :) Now we're rolling . .

[colgate13]

Hey, it's up to three :) Now we're rolling . .

Frankly, you've got me scared!

I'm waiting for the season to begin... the old board had some more Colgate fans like HooDoo, etc...

Welcome to the club Andy! :hurray:

[colgate13]

Welcome Andy.

Aside: I remember mentioning hoodoo to the Colgate SID and Bob looked at me like I knew some secret. I even intoned "HOOOOOOODOOOOOO" during the NCAA hockey playoffs in front of him and he seemed impressed when some of the crowd shouted it back. I love that stuff!

:p

Next time, bring up the unbeaten, untied, unscored and uninvited 1932 season and what a crock it was Colgate was left out of the Rose Bowl... He might just think you have super powers!

[Fordham]

Good to have you here Andy!

[LBPop]

So this is where all the football talk has gone. It sure isn't on the PL boards.

Nice to see you, but I still have hope for the PL boards, particularly the new one that requires a sign-on ID. When the season gets going, I think the Patriot League fans will still want a separate place to discuss league specific stuff.

[Umass74]

Now if you could only round up some (or one) Holy Cross fans. Colgate 13 and I tried once, but nobody wanted to play :(

The Cross was at one time one of I-AA's best. It's too bad their program was deliberately destroyed by their president.

[colgate13]

Now if you could only round up some (or one) Holy Cross fans. Colgate 13 and I tried once, but nobody wanted to play :(

No longer true! I've seen two: Breezy and justballn21. (member.php?u=490)

We also got ourselves a Bucknell fan (KenZ) in the house, so the entire PL is represented. Next stop, Chattanooga!!!! :nod::nod::nod:

[LBPop]

The Cross was at one time one of I-AA's best. It's too bad their program was deliberately destroyed by their president.

Hey 74, please help me out with something. I'm a Maryland alum with a kid at Georgetown. My only reason to care about Holy Cross (before last season) was when Maryland hired Mark Duffner from HC (boy, did that work out well :( ). Did his leaving have anything to do with the Holy Cross decline in football?

[Umass74]

Hey 74, please help me out with something. I'm a Maryland alum with a kid at Georgetown. My only reason to care about Holy Cross (before last season) was when Maryland hired Mark Duffner from HC (boy, did that work out well ). Did his leaving have anything to do with the Holy Cross decline in football?

No, the long sad story of Holy Cross football was the brain storm of Fr. J.E. Brooks Holy Cross' President. The Cross was one of 1-AA's top teams. If memory serves they went something like 40-0 against I-AA competition in the late 80's and early 90's.

Fr. Brooks apparently went PC (winning football means low academics). This was despite the fact that the Holy Cross game programs from that era show player bios studded with Pre-Meds. Fr. Brooks ended scholarships at Holy Cross and moved them into the Patriot League. The Cross was allowed to play while the scholarship players finished their eligibility, so Holy Cross went undefeated in the patriot League for several years.

The Holy Cross alums were wild because football and basketball were big at a Catholic School. They sold out their stadium (27,000) against B.C.

Brooks ignored the alums and stated publicly it was his way or the highway.

Holy Cross never recovered. The Patriot League has good teams now, but the Cross has never been able to dig out of the hole Fr. Brooks dug. They dropped the long running series with UMass and have been in the cellar of the Patriot League ever since. Their basketball team has shown signs of life and most Cross alums ignore everything but basketball. :(

[TheValleyRaider]

Holy Cross never recovered. The Patriot League has good teams now, but the Cross has never been able to dig out of the hole Fr. Brooks dug. They dropped the long running series with UMass and have been in the cellar of the Patriot League ever since. Their basketball team has shown signs of life and most Cross alums ignore everything but basketball.

I'd say nearly beating Kentucky, Marquette and Kansas in consecutive years in the NCAA Tournament, and taking at-the-time-undefeated BC to OT at Chestnut Hill is a little more than showing signs of life. Their women's team has also nearly owned the PL since joining. However, you're right about everything beyond basketball just not being consistantly (if at all) competitive. With Gilmore at the helm, it looks like they might be, maybe, almost quite possibly turning a corner in football, but it'll be a year or two to see if that works out.

[ngineer]

It is correct that HC's downfall occured when they dropped the scholarships to go into the PL---but I've always been curious as to why it happened, since I would have thought with their tradition they would have made a better transition. Perhaps it's taken them time to figure out how to recruit top academic players on a need-based forumula--it's a tricky affair and one has to admire those teams that can consistently do it.

[breezy]

I'll make some comments that will address several of the points made in previous posts.

1. It is true that HC President Fr. Brooks led Holy Cross into the Colonial League (now Patriot League) and mandated abandoning football scholarships. His concept had some merit -- it would join Holy Cross with similar institutions and allow for continued scheduling of Ivy League opponents. Supposedly, the Ivy League had threatened to stop scheduling Holy Cross because HC, with scholarships, was winning consistently against Ivy opponents. Moreover (and this point is often missed), it would allow HC to move away from competing with large state institutions (UMass, UNH, URI) that were able to devote more financial resources to football that HC, in the long run, would not be able to match. (Title IX is also a consideration here.)

Many theories sound good on paper. Unfortunately, the Brooks vision of HC drawing large crowds for games against Ivy opponents never came to pass. The financial impact of football on the HC budget has probably gotten worse, if anything. In the interim (perhaps due to creative use of need-based grants), it seems that the Patriot League schools have been able to remain competitive with scholarship programs (see the success PL schools have had in recent playoffs). HC once declared it would no longer play scholarship programs (ending the series with UMass) but has now scheduled Delaware this year and UNH next year.

2. Mark Duffner had a great record at HC, 60-5-1 over 6 seasons if I recall correctly, including 11-0 seasons in 1987 and 1991. He left when the last scholarship class was graduating, leaving his successor with 0 returning starters on offense but a defense that had many returning starters (something like 8). He is a dynamic coach and I was disappointed that he did not do better at Maryland.

3. In many college sports, success is a question of leadership, and HC did not do well in installing new leadership for the football program after Duffner left. Pete Vaas was an alum and has had some success in other areas, but he was spectacularly unsuccessful as HC's head coach. The talent level went down dramatically. Many people say that he did not know how to recruit without scholarships, and that is probably a valid criticism. When he left, Dan Allen became head coach. Allen, who had been an assistant under Duffner, had two good years at BU but he was unable to build on those years and the BU program went into decline. He was chosen for his fine personal qualities rather than his ability to build a program. At HC, he did some things to make the program better but overall the rest of the Patriot League improved even more and the gap widened. Gilmore seems to have made some progress in the short time he has been at HC but it is too early to say whether or how quickly he will be able to close the gap.

[colgate13]

Thank you breezy! That's why it's great to have representatives from all schools on this board. That kind of thoughtful insight can only be speculated at most times when it comes from an outsider. Please contribute often! :nod:

[Fordham]

Breezy, that's a great take. It explains alot when it comes to understanding how individual decisions were made that don't make sense in retrospect.

Also, what about the Fr. Reedy years? I'm interested in an HC alum's take on him just because he's a Fordham guy (and a great one at that, imo) but I'm not sure what the school's perception was of his time there.

[breezy]

Fr. Reedy is a nice man and I had the chance to meet him at a couple of HC alumni events. My principal impression of him is that he is a classic example of someone who is very good at doing a particular thing and then is asked to do something else where he does not have the same adeptness. He just did not seem to be cut out to be a College President. He seemed to me to be more of an academic and not well suited to be doing the fundraising and alumni-socializing that are required of a President. He left HC rather abruptly under somewhat mysterious circumstances, but the last I heard he had returned to Fordham and was doing well.

[LBPop]

I'll make some comments that will address several of the points made in previous posts.


I will echo the other posters when I say thank you for that insight. It must have taken you 20 minutes to compose all that, so thanks also for the effort.

[Go...gate]

Great post about Holy Cross FB. I never realized that their leadership declared they would stop playing scholarship schools as well - that explains the sudden proliferation of Marist, Sacred Heart, Duquesne, etc on their schedules in place of UMASS, URI, etc.

[colgate13]

But a nice addition of Delaware this year tells me they're heading back in the right direction. :nod: