JMU Offers COA for All Sports (Fall 2019)

[jmu007]

Just announced a little earlier today.

https://twitter.com/Madia_DNRSports/status/1025118883248783360

Looks like all sports, to include football, will be receiving COA moving forward. I know NDSU offers this to football as well. Who else is on the current list of COA in FCS?

- NDSU
- JMU
- USD
- SDSU
- UNI
- ?

[Silenoz]

I want to say the rest of the Dakotas. Certainly no-one in the Big Sky.

[Professor Chaos]

USD (University of South Dakota that is) claims they do it for all athletes although I've seen that disputed. SDSU and UNI offer it "as needed" for football recruits I believe (IOW when they're competing against other schools that offer it). That's the only other ones that I know of.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I guess UND does it as well but I try to ignore them whenever possible so it was an honest mistake excluding them originally.

[F'N Hawks]

USD (University of South Dakota that is) claims they do it for all athletes although I've seen that disputed. SDSU and UNI offer it "as needed" I believe (IOW when they're competing against other schools that offer it). That's the only other ones that I know of.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I guess UND does it as well but I try to ignore them whenever possible so it was an honest mistake excluding them originally.

You should pass along your philosophy to the rest of your fan base. Would free up alot of time and rid a ton of negative bandwidth.

[TheKingpin28]

USD (University of South Dakota that is) claims they do it for all athletes although I've seen that disputed. SDSU and UNI offer it "as needed" for football recruits I believe (IOW when they're competing against other schools that offer it). That's the only other ones that I know of.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I guess UND does it as well but I try to ignore them whenever possible so it was an honest mistake excluding them originally.

Didn't UNI and SDSU gather private donors to do the FCoA thing to ensure Title IX violations did not occur? This was they could say these are private citizens giving their money as they choose and avoid discrimination penalties?

[Professor Chaos]

Didn't UNI and SDSU gather private donors to do the FCoA thing to ensure Title IX violations did not occur? This was they could say these are private citizens giving their money as they choose and avoid discrimination penalties?
I'm not sure. I know both do it for all men's and women's basketball players but I don't know the Title IX implications or loopholes there.

[WestCoastAggie]

A&T offers FCOA for Basketball, at least for Men's Basketball. I think it's hard to offer FCOA in FCS Football due to the partials given out. Subsequently, you could bring in football players that can get academic scholarships that essentially pay what FCOA would do, without using a scholarship equivalency.

[clenz]

Didn't UNI and SDSU gather private donors to do the FCoA thing to ensure Title IX violations did not occur? This was they could say these are private citizens giving their money as they choose and avoid discrimination penalties?

I don’t know that donations are earmarked for it. I know our basketball coach, wrestling coach, and volleyball coaches salaries are all either 100% private donations or endowments.

I know women’s basketball saves one scholarship each season (gives 14 rather than 15) and uses the allocated money for that scholarship as FCOA.

Football is “as needed” but almost every single kid has gotten it for a while now.
Men’s basketball was day 1 implementation.
Volleyball was day 1 implementation
Wrestling wasn’t day 1 but it was year 2. Wrestling’s money is a bit different, and tighter, than the others but the coaching salaries are paid through a private endowment.

I know it was supposed to have worked its way into things like softball, soccer swimming, track, golf, etc... but haven’t followed up on that.




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[cx500d]

You should pass along your philosophy to the rest of your fan base. Would free up alot of time and rid a ton of negative bandwidth.

This is where I jump in and talk about The school in grand forks sucking in most endeavors

[BDKJMU]

Pretty much everything about JMU football, other than 63 schollies instead of 85, and being in the CAA, is at the G5 level. Facilties, spending, coaches' salaries, recruting, attendance, and on field performance is at the G5 level. JMU is recruting more against P5 & G5 as they are vs other I-AA, so COA is absolutely necessary in keeping up with NDSU and being to able to compete recruiting wise with the I-A schools.

Some excerpts from an article last week from JMU's beat writer with the Harrisonburg Daily News Record, Greg Madia, relates to this, as JMU lost one of their 3 star commits to Pitt:

"......All of the Dukes’ seven verbal commitments hold scholarship offers from at least two FBS schools. Four of the seven pledges have an offer from a Power Five program......the class features two Rivals.com three-star prospects and four two-star prospects......

“The challenge now is when you’re recruiting guys that are so highly sought after, you’ve got to hold on to them. A lot of those guys have Power Five offers and a lot of them have people that are really pressuring them right now to try to flip them. So with recruiting, even though we’re in good shape right now, it’s never ending. I was on the phone last night and I’ll probably be on the phone this evening. It’s a deal that when I was on vacation, I had to carve out a couple of hours each day to take care of this.”...

...Northwest (Germantown, Md.) cornerback AJ Woods, who gave his verbal to James Madison last month after earning offers from Virginia and Temple, announced over Twitter on Friday that he flipped his committment to Pittsburgh....

.....“The big thing with the Power Five schools is just that we’re an FCS program, They hammer us with it.”
The big brother doesn’t like the little brother taking what’s not theirs, so Houston and his staff are doing everything they can until the NCAA’s early signing period in December to keep the class intact....

....“And the thing that I always stress to the kids is that, ‘Well, if that’s the case then why don’t they play us, because these schools that are hammering us, they won’t play us or schedule us, and we’ve asked them, but they still want to demean us.....

.....Houston said he’s adjusted to the early signing period, which was introduced last year. JMU inked 13 members of its 16-man 2018 class early.....“With the early signing period, it’s sped up everybody,” Houston said. “It’s sped us up. It’s sped the players up.

JMU will graduate just 12 players off its current roster at the end of the season...."
https://jamesmadison.rivals.com/news/the-other-game-1

[SeattleBobcat]

Pretty much everything about JMU football, other than 63 schollies instead of 85, and being in the CAA, is at the G5 level. Facilties, spending, coaches' salaries, recruting, attendance, and on field performance is at the G5 level. JMU is recruting more against P5 & G5 as they are vs other I-AA, so COA is absolutely necessary in keeping up with NDSU and being to able to compete recruiting wise with the I-A schools.

Some excerpts from an article last week from JMU's beat writer with the Harrisonburg Daily News Record, Greg Madia, relates to this, as JMU lost one of their 3 star commits to Pitt:

"......All of the Dukes’ seven verbal commitments hold scholarship offers from at least two FBS schools. Four of the seven pledges have an offer from a Power Five program......the class features two Rivals.com three-star prospects and four two-star prospects......

“The challenge now is when you’re recruiting guys that are so highly sought after, you’ve got to hold on to them. A lot of those guys have Power Five offers and a lot of them have people that are really pressuring them right now to try to flip them. So with recruiting, even though we’re in good shape right now, it’s never ending. I was on the phone last night and I’ll probably be on the phone this evening. It’s a deal that when I was on vacation, I had to carve out a couple of hours each day to take care of this.”...

...Northwest (Germantown, Md.) cornerback AJ Woods, who gave his verbal to James Madison last month after earning offers from Virginia and Temple, announced over Twitter on Friday that he flipped his committment to Pittsburgh....

.....“The big thing with the Power Five schools is just that we’re an FCS program, They hammer us with it.”
The big brother doesn’t like the little brother taking what’s not theirs, so Houston and his staff are doing everything they can until the NCAA’s early signing period in December to keep the class intact....

....“And the thing that I always stress to the kids is that, ‘Well, if that’s the case then why don’t they play us, because these schools that are hammering us, they won’t play us or schedule us, and we’ve asked them, but they still want to demean us.....

.....Houston said he’s adjusted to the early signing period, which was introduced last year. JMU inked 13 members of its 16-man 2018 class early.....“With the early signing period, it’s sped up everybody,” Houston said. “It’s sped us up. It’s sped the players up.

JMU will graduate just 12 players off its current roster at the end of the season...."
https://jamesmadison.rivals.com/news/the-other-game-1






I completely agree with you, I really don't see you guys hanging around much longer. While you are here its nice to see someone who can beat NDSU. You guys raised the bar pretty high in terms of success and the rest of us are playing catch up. I don't see either Montana school offer FCOA, because one can't do it without the other and it all comes from the same pocket book.

But Kudos to you guys that can make it happen, the athletes deserve it.

[UpstateBison]

I completely agree with you, I really don't see you guys hanging around much longer. While you are here its nice to see someone who can beat NDSU. You guys raised the bar pretty high in terms of success and the rest of us are playing catch up. I don't see either Montana school offer FCOA, because one can't do it without the other and it all comes from the same pocket book.

But Kudos to you guys that can make it happen, the athletes deserve it.

What about the booster clubs funding it?


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[Bisonoline]

I don’t know that donations are earmarked for it. I know our basketball coach, wrestling coach, and volleyball coaches salaries are all either 100% private donations or endowments.

I know women’s basketball saves one scholarship each season (gives 14 rather than 15) and uses the allocated money for that scholarship as FCOA.

Football is “as needed” but almost every single kid has gotten it for a while now.
Men’s basketball was day 1 implementation.
Volleyball was day 1 implementation
Wrestling wasn’t day 1 but it was year 2. Wrestling’s money is a bit different, and tighter, than the others but the coaching salaries are paid through a private endowment.

I know it was supposed to have worked its way into things like softball, soccer swimming, track, golf, etc... but haven’t followed up on that.




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Are all of your sports fully funded?

[clenz]

Are all of your sports fully funded?

Golf uses no scholarships but outside of that, yes.

Doesn’t mean a coach gives out every scholarship ever year but they have the ability too.

WBB chose to give up the 15th scholarship player athlete for the FCOA for the other 14.

Football usually only fills 58-61 of the rides each year going into fall. The others are given out once the roster is finalized.

Men’s basketball only has 12 of 13 scholarship guys this year. Not because we don’t use them. We just had a number of transfers out after being told they would get no PT with a roster overhaul and banked the scholarship to our 19 or 20 class


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[BisonFan02]

How is this being funded?????

[IBleedYellow]

How is this being funded?????Is this even a question?

The student fees can go all the way up to *%! Why not get there?

I'd be more impressed if this wasn't coming on the backs of students. Nice job being funded at a "G5" level, though!

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[F'N Hawks]

How is this being funded?????

The FCOA equivalent of "who else offered"

[BisonFan02]

The FCOA equivalent of "who else offered"

Probably closer to #fiftytwopercent

[Bisonoline]

The FCOA equivalent of "who else offered"

??????????

Did you guys ever get around to be fully funded for all sports.

[TheKingpin28]

I don’t know that donations are earmarked for it. I know our basketball coach, wrestling coach, and volleyball coaches salaries are all either 100% private donations or endowments.

I know women’s basketball saves one scholarship each season (gives 14 rather than 15) and uses the allocated money for that scholarship as FCOA.

Football is “as needed” but almost every single kid has gotten it for a while now.
Men’s basketball was day 1 implementation.
Volleyball was day 1 implementation
Wrestling wasn’t day 1 but it was year 2. Wrestling’s money is a bit different, and tighter, than the others but the coaching salaries are paid through a private endowment.

I know it was supposed to have worked its way into things like softball, soccer swimming, track, golf, etc... but haven’t followed up on that.




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSo certain sports are privately funded and others might be? Just wondering if I read that correctly.

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[Derby City Duke]

Is this even a question?

The student fees can go all the way up to *%! Why not get there?

I'd be more impressed if this wasn't coming on the backs of students. Nice job being funded at a "G5" level, though!

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I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that it took until post #16 to xdeadhorsex of student fees at JMU. We get it -- you're pissed at their current funding model - doesn't thrill me either, but unfortunately I don't have a spare million or three laying around to give the school. I'd be glad to do that. I'll be the first to tell you I don't understand the mechanics of the funding model and what expenses are included in the budget. I do know that 80% of the athletics budget is applied to the other sports at JMU -- the football budget is about $10 million, an increase of about $1.1 million since the end of FY 16 (6/30/16).

[IBleedYellow]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that it took until post #16 to xdeadhorsex of student fees at JMU. We get it -- you're pissed at their current funding model - doesn't thrill me either, but unfortunately I don't have a spare million or three laying around to give the school. I'd be glad to do that. I'll be the first to tell you I don't understand the mechanics of the funding model and what expenses are included in the budget. I do know that 80% of the athletics budget is applied to the other sports at JMU -- the football budget is about $10 million, an increase of about $1.1 million since the end of FY 16 (6/30/16).I just don't get how your budget is so damn large to begin with. You're a FCS school!

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[IBleedYellow]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that it took until post #16 to xdeadhorsex of student fees at JMU. We get it -- you're pissed at their current funding model - doesn't thrill me either, but unfortunately I don't have a spare million or three laying around to give the school. I'd be glad to do that. I'll be the first to tell you I don't understand the mechanics of the funding model and what expenses are included in the budget. I do know that 80% of the athletics budget is applied to the other sports at JMU -- the football budget is about $10 million, an increase of about $1.1 million since the end of FY 16 (6/30/16).Also. People will forever give you **** about your student fees until you lower them. It's a really lazy way (not to mention sets your students up for failure with even more debt!) to fund an athletic department, that honestly should have an NCAA cap or something similar anyway.

It's a bad look, to put it bluntly.

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[jmu007]

If you ladies are finished....

So I assume there are no more schools to add to the list?

[bluehenbillk]

deleted

[RootinFerDukes]

Is this even a question?

The student fees can go all the way up to *%! Why not get there?

I'd be more impressed if this wasn't coming on the backs of students. Nice job being funded at a "G5" level, though!

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Spoken like a fan whose own AD isn’t doing the same thing.

[RootinFerDukes]

Also. People will forever give you **** about your student fees until you lower them. It's a really lazy way (not to mention sets your students up for failure with even more debt!) to fund an athletic department, that honestly should have an NCAA cap or something similar anyway.

It's a bad look, to put it bluntly.

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Last I saw, we were the fifth cheapest public in the entire state of Virginia. I’m not happy about it but saying you’re paying more in the total bill because of the fees isn’t remotely true. Students are still paying more at UVA, VT, WM, GMU, VCU etc

We fully fund scholarships for all sports. Some in D1 don’t do that.

[KPSUL]

None of the posts here from JMU fans excited about full cost of attendance mentioned the fact that 4 years ago your University president signed a pledge with president of dozens of other more reputable eastern universities and colleges to NOT offer COA. Looks like JMU is negotiating like North Korea or Iran - agree to anything and then renege when you think no one is looking.

[Professor Chaos]

Last I saw, we were the fifth cheapest public in the entire state of Virginia. I’m not happy about it but saying you’re paying more in the total bill because of the fees isn’t remotely true. Students are still paying more at UVA, VT, WM, GMU, VCU etc

We fully fund scholarships for all sports. Some in D1 don’t do that.
It's obviously ingrained into the culture there and that's fine. Different schools pay the bills different ways. The reason why most NDSU fans, myself included, were shocked when we first saw how much student fees go into JMU's athletic budget is that here it takes a herculean effort to put in any kind of student fee increase. Heads would literally explode here if NDSU tried to increase student fees to even a quarter of what JMU has. So I guess you could say in a way we're jealous because the students there are obviously on board with it but it's just a completely different mentality/culture than what we're used to here.

However, claiming that it's no big deal because JMU is still cheaper than UVA or VaTech even with the student fees doesn't really pass the smell test for me. All that tells me is that JMU tightens the budget in other areas. As to what that those areas are I have no idea but if it's academics then you're setting yourself up for a hell of a lot of criticism both internally and externally.

[BisonFan02]

None of the posts here from JMU fans excited about full cost of attendance mentioned the fact that 4 years ago your University president signed a pledge with president of dozens of other more reputable eastern universities and colleges to NOT offer COA. Looks like JMU is negotiating like North Korea or Iran - agree to anything and then renege when you think no one is looking.

Ha, I forgot about that.

Its an optics thing for JMU.....We literally just had a thread about the percentage their AD is funded by student fees....and now they are essentially cashing blank checks to act like a "G5" program and fund FCOA. Its an AD and booster base with credit cards and giving zero ****s who pays for these things.

[BisonFan02]

2017....




James Madison (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)

CAA

$48,210,400

$48,210,400
$39,119,920
81.14




North Dakota State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
Summit
$27,267,507

$28,124,505
$7,880,233 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
28.90




I'd get your money back.....Just under 40M in subsidy....and that's before FCOA?

[clenz]

2017....




James Madison (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)

CAA

$48,210,400

$48,210,400
$39,119,920
81.14




North Dakota State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
Summit
$27,267,507

$28,124,505
$7,880,233 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
28.90




I'd get your money back.....Just under 40M in subsidy....and that's before FCOA?

And being bad in other sports.

MBB last in CAA
BB third to last and not over 500
MGolf middle of the pack
MSoc middle ornkust above middle of the pack
MTen middle of the pack


Women’s sports did better
WXC won the conference meet
WBB second
Field hockey lost in the semis of the conference tournament
Tennis won the title
Swimming won the title
Lacrosse won the title
Softball didn’t do so well


Maybe FCOA fixes the issues in the men’s teams because the women are carrying that athletic department


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[centennial]

2017....




James Madison (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)

CAA

$48,210,400

$48,210,400
$39,119,920
81.14




North Dakota State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
Summit
$27,267,507

$28,124,505
$7,880,233 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#)
28.90




I'd get your money back.....Just under 40M in subsidy....and that's before FCOA?

Considering the student default rate. JMU really is America's FCS team. I used to be in student government at NDSU, and increasing funding would never fly.

The real shame is that extra money should be invested into the students, and the university. A regional freaking college taking $40 million from it's students every year is a travesty. Over a 10 year period so many more students could have be helped, New equipment bought and programmes started. JMU could've even become a National University. Instead the choose to act like a Slum Belt school.

[BisonFan02]

Considering the student default rate. JMU really is America's FCS team. I used to be in student government at NDSU, and increasing funding would never fly.

The real shame is that extra money should be invested into the students, and the university. A regional freaking college taking $40 million from it's students every year is a travesty. Over a 10 year period so many more students could have be helped, New equipment bought and programmes started. JMU could've even become a National University. Instead the choose to act like a Slum Belt school.

Ripped the tits off of that one. xlolx I agree.

[IBleedYellow]

Spoken like a fan whose own AD isn’t doing the same thing.

Your University is the second worst in ALL OF DIVISION ONE (much less FCS) for student fees. NDSU is in the top 5 for lowest student fees. You have no leg to stand on if you're attempting to tell me that my AD "is doing the same thing." Like hell we are. Percentage wise isn't not even a contest.

Also, the fact that a "podunk little University like NDSU" can run a $27M budget and you take in $40M just from students....where in world are you guys spending all that money? Holy **** man, our $27M has gotten us 6 National Titles in football, multiple wins in softball Super regionals, NCAA march madness victory, wrestling is looking pretty damn good, etc.

Y'all are getting ripped the hell off and you're literally burning money.

[Professor Chaos]

Your University is the second worst in ALL OF DIVISION ONE (much less FCS) for student fees. NDSU is in the top 5 for lowest student fees. You have no leg to stand on if you're attempting to tell me that my AD "is doing the same thing." Like hell we are. Percentage wise isn't not even a contest.

Also, the fact that a "podunk little University like NDSU" can run a $27M budget and you take in $40M just from students....where in world are you guys spending all that money? Holy **** man, our $27M has gotten us 6 National Titles in football, multiple wins in softball Super regionals, NCAA march madness victory, wrestling is looking pretty damn good, etc.

Y'all are getting ripped the hell off and you're literally burning money.
Check out page 9 of this pdf... it's all there (for the 2016/2017 academic year that is): http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/JamesMadisonUniversityNCAA2017.pdf

Part of it is $5.2M that I believe is going to paying off the financing debt on their stadium renovation. Seems kind of shady to put that into an athletic budget 80% funded by student fees. Basically the "we're going to take the AD's debt for our fancy new stadium renovation and transform that into student loan debt for our students" approach. There's also $5.8M for "Support staff/administrative compensation, benefits, and bonuses paid by the University and related entities" that aren't associated with any specific sports program (xconfusedx). Then there's $3.3M for "Indirect cost paid to the institution by athletics"... so giving money back to the university that gave them just over $2M in institutional support revenue???

All in all football operated at a $5M deficit if you only include revenues brought in by football. I'm trying to find the equivalent report for NDSU's AD just because I'm curious how they compare but having a hard time finding it right now. I'll post it if I do.


EDIT: Still couldn't find the NDSU report but extrapolating the data from the USA Today database at http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances the difference are JMU spends about $5M more on coaches salaries (which is where that $5.8M for "support staff/administrative compensation..." for non-program specific stuff goes into), about $4M more for scholarships (more sponsored sports? more expensive tuition?), and about $10M more in facilities/overhead (part of that is the $5.2M debt payoff for the stadium reno and another part is the $3.3M for "indirect cost paid to the institution", the rest is just classified as "direct administrative expenses").

So pretty much you add those 3 expense line items I called out in the 2nd paragraph and additional scholarship expense and that's $18.5M of the $20M difference between the 2 athletic budgets.

[jmu007]

None of the posts here from JMU fans excited about full cost of attendance mentioned the fact that 4 years ago your University president signed a pledge with president of dozens of other more reputable eastern universities and colleges to NOT offer COA. Looks like JMU is negotiating like North Korea or Iran - agree to anything and then renege when you think no one is looking.

That came up on JMU boards. Interesting that at least 3 of the presidents involved In that letter are now offering COA in some if not all sports. (JMU, W&M, and Delaware)

Personally, I disagreed with the letter and am happy they’re now offering COA.

[BDKJMU]

None of the posts here from JMU fans excited about full cost of attendance mentioned the fact that 4 years ago your University president signed a pledge with president of dozens of other more reputable eastern universities and colleges to NOT offer COA. Looks like JMU is negotiating like North Korea or Iran - agree to anything and then renege when you think no one is looking.
That was BH- before Houston. Everything changed with Houston’s arrival. If still had Mickey Matthews or Everett Withers wouldn’t have made Frisco the last 2 seasons..

Also were any other I-AA football schools giving COA for football 4 years ago?

[JMUisat14]

Check out page 9 of this pdf... it's all there (for the 2016/2017 academic year that is): http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/JamesMadisonUniversityNCAA2017.pdf

Part of it is $5.2M that I believe is going to paying off the financing debt on their stadium renovation. Seems kind of shady to put that into an athletic budget 80% funded by student fees. Basically the "we're going to take the AD's debt for our fancy new stadium renovation and transform that into student loan debt for our students" approach. There's also $5.8M for "Support staff/administrative compensation, benefits, and bonuses paid by the University and related entities" that aren't associated with any specific sports program (xconfusedx). Then there's $3.3M for "Indirect cost paid to the institution by athletics"... so giving money back to the university that gave them just over $2M in institutional support revenue???

All in all football operated at a $5M deficit if you only include revenues brought in by football. I'm trying to find the equivalent report for NDSU's AD just because I'm curious how they compare but having a hard time finding it right now. I'll post it if I do.


EDIT: Still couldn't find the NDSU report but extrapolating the data from the USA Today database at http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances the difference are JMU spends about $5M more on coaches salaries (which is where that $5.8M for "support staff/administrative compensation..." for non-program specific stuff goes into), about $4M more for scholarships (more sponsored sports? more expensive tuition?), and about $10M more in facilities/overhead (part of that is the $5.2M debt payoff for the stadium reno and another part is the $3.3M for "indirect cost paid to the institution", the rest is just classified as "direct administrative expenses").

So pretty much you add those 3 expense line items I called out in the 2nd paragraph and additional scholarship expense and that's $18.5M of the $20M difference between the 2 athletic budgets.

Wow.. look at that. A reasonably thought out and well researched post. The rest of the Bizzzzzon should take note before posting more knee-jerk reactions.


Yes, JMU does fund quite a few sports and in general the East Coast is a more expensive place for a university sports department to operate than the upper Mid-West. We have the stadium renovation as you mentioned and now also a new basketball arena that ground was just broken on this past year.

JMU has 18 fully funded D1 programs as follows:

MEN - Baseball, Basketball, Football, Golf, Soccer, Tennis

WOMEN - Basketball, Cross Country, Field Hockey, Golf, Lacrosse, Soccer, Softball, Swim and Dive, Tennis, Track and Field (Indoor and Out), Volleyball

[NoVABison]

That was BH- before Houston. Everything changed with Houston’s arrival. If still had Mickey Matthews or Everett Withers wouldn’t have made Frisco the last 2 seasons..

Also were any other I-AA football schools giving COA for football 4 years ago?

I remember when that letter came out 4 years ago... it came out a couple days after NDSU announced they were going to provide FCOA for all sports. At that point, only Liberty and NDSU were providing FCOA for football.

[Derby City Duke]

Also. People will forever give you **** about your student fees until you lower them. It's a really lazy way (not to mention sets your students up for failure with even more debt!) to fund an athletic department, that honestly should have an NCAA cap or something similar anyway.

It's a bad look, to put it bluntly.

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Yeah, the optics suck. I wish I was connected enough back at the university to accurately describe all the expenses and why/how they are counted in the overall budget.

I will tell you that I couldn't afford to send my daughter there in 2009, paying out-of-state rates, regardless of what the fee levels are/were.

[Derby City Duke]

And having the best overall sports record for all D1 institutions in VA, with a .669 winning percentage.

https://jmusports.com/news/2018/7/10/administration-jmu-posts-states-best-all-sports-record-for-third-year-running-81st-in-learfield-directors-cup.aspx

MBB last in CAA
BB third to last and not over 500
MGolf middle of the pack
MSoc middle ornkust above middle of the pack
MTen middle of the pack


Women’s sports did better
WXC won the conference meet
WBB advanced to the round of 16 in the WNIT (CAA is almost always a 1-bid league)
Field hockey lost in the semis of the conference tournament
Tennis won the title
Swimming won the title
Women's Lacrosse won the National Championship
Softball made the NCAAs again this year (with an interim coach after the HC got hired at Auburn during the fall to keep that program from imploding)


Maybe FCOA fixes the issues in the men’s teams because the women are carrying that athletic department


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Made some needed edits (but you're right -- our women's sports are light years ahead of all men's sports excepting football).

[RootinFerDukes]

Does NDSU fully fund all of its sports programs? That means offering the D1 scholarship maximum in every sport.

I’m also assuming they offer the NCAA minimum sports programs to compete at the D1 level?

[Bisonoline]

Does NDSU fully fund all of its sports programs? That means offering the D1 scholarship maximum in every sport.

I’m also assuming they offer the NCAA minimum sports programs to compete at the D1 level?

Yes we are fully funded and offer FCOA to all of our student athletes.

As far as what the NCAA minimum # of sports is I dont know.

[IBleedYellow]

Does NDSU fully fund all of its sports programs? That means offering the D1 scholarship maximum in every sport.

I’m also assuming they offer the NCAA minimum sports programs to compete at the D1 level?Yes. NDSU fully funds every sport that we sponsor, and ALL of them get FCOA.

All scholarships and FCOA are 100% covered by private donations each and every year.

We sponsor the minimum requirements to retain membership in the Summit and MVFC.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[NoVABison]

Yes we are fully funded and offer FCOA to all of our student athletes.

As far as what the NCAA minimum # of sports is I dont know.

and 16 teams (8 Men's and 8 Women's Teams) -- they meet the D1 minimums

[DFW HOYA]

and 16 teams (8 Men's and 8 Women's Teams) -- they meet the D1 minimums

Minimum is 14.

Most sports offered in the subdivision? Harvard, with 43.

[clenz]

Yes. NDSU fully funds every sport that we sponsor, and ALL of them get FCOA.

All scholarships and FCOA are 100% covered by private donations each and every year.

We sponsor the minimum requirements to retain membership in the Summit and MVFC.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TapatalkIt's also smarter to sponsor what you can financially, and fan wise, support. Simply having sports to have sports is a bad thing.

[clenz]

So certain sports are privately funded and others might be? Just wondering if I read that correctly.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
I'm not exactly sure what you're going for, but I'll try this for an answer

There is donor money that goes into the AD that is to be used for FCOA. How much of FCOA it covers? I'm not 100% sure. Is it ear marked to specific sports? No idea. I assume it's not 100% covered, but I can't say for sure.

Mens basketball has over a million dollars a year set aside for coaches salaries through private funding
Wrestling teams head coaching position is endowed - over 120k a year. I'm not well versed in wrestling coaches pay but it's up there
Volleyball coaches have about 200k raised through private funding - HC makes 150k, which doesn't touch B10 salaires but is higher than 95% of the rest of the coaches in the nation.
WBB coach signed a new deal a year or two ago that has a good amount of private backing.


Our new AD is doing a ton of fundraising work. Records have been set every year he's been here.

We've privately funded a $40 million dollar multi level practice/training facility for basketball and volleyball

[DFW HOYA]

Simply having sports to have sports is a bad thing.

Why is it a bad thing? If it provides opportunities for students to play a sport and form the lifelong ties of cameraderie and competition, it's a win-win.

And at many schools, today's student-athletes are tomorrow's benefactors.

[Milktruck74]

D1 is split into 3 unofficial divisions...P5, G5 and FCS. Won't this split into a 4th? P5, G5, FCS w/ and FCS w/o?

[clenz]

Why is it a bad thing? If it provides opportunities for students to play a sport and form the lifelong ties of cameraderie and competition, it's a win-win.

And at many schools, today's student-athletes are tomorrow's benefactors.

If a school can financially support the sport(s) it’s not beneficial. Underfunding. Under supporting academically. Straining other areas that don’t need to be.

That is a bad thing.

Same principle that families live with. Live within your means. Having a ton of sports and luxuries is akin to a low middle class family living with a house 50% bigger than needed. 2 new cars. Brand new high end phones. Computers. TVs. Gaming systems. Etc. can they make it happen? Sure if they spend every penny they have on those things - and then get assistance from others.

If you need 40 million dollars from your general student population to find your program - you’re doing it wrong and living way above your means.


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[TheKingpin28]

I'm not exactly sure what you're going for, but I'll try this for an answer

There is donor money that goes into the AD that is to be used for FCOA. How much of FCOA it covers? I'm not 100% sure. Is it ear marked to specific sports? No idea. I assume it's not 100% covered, but I can't say for sure.

Mens basketball has over a million dollars a year set aside for coaches salaries through private funding
Wrestling teams head coaching position is endowed - over 120k a year. I'm not well versed in wrestling coaches pay but it's up there
Volleyball coaches have about 200k raised through private funding - HC makes 150k, which doesn't touch B10 salaires but is higher than 95% of the rest of the coaches in the nation.
WBB coach signed a new deal a year or two ago that has a good amount of private backing.


Our new AD is doing a ton of fundraising work. Records have been set every year he's been here.

We've privately funded a $40 million dollar multi level practice/training facility for basketball and volleyballYes, that is what I was looking for. I appreciate the answers.

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[KPSUL]

Yeah, the optics suck. I wish I was connected enough back at the university to accurately describe all the expenses and why/how they are counted in the overall budget.
I will tell you that I couldn't afford to send my daughter there in 2009, paying out-of-state rates, regardless of what the fee levels are/were.

I'm very familiar with JMU tuition and fees - I paid them for my daughter from 2012 to 2016 (in-state). My main issue at the time? A lack of transparency in student fees. Unlike many schools, they didn't itemize individual fees. Instead virtually all the fees were rolled into the tuition charge. The only itemized fees I recall in 4 years of reviewing and paying semester bills was an IT related charge and a one time Freshmen orientation fee. In contrast, I saw my daughter's friend's bill who was a Virginia Tech student. He had 5 or 6 itemized fees in addition to tuition that included varsity athletics. In seemed wrong to me that Universities from the same state would handle this issue so differently.

[clenz]

I'm very familiar with JMU tuition and fees - I paid them for my daughter from 2012 to 2016 (in-state). My main issue at the time? A lack of transparency in student fees. Unlike many schools, they didn't itemize individual fees. Instead virtually all the fees were rolled into the tuition charge. The only itemized fees I recall in 4 years of reviewing and paying semester bills was an IT related charge and a one time Freshmen orientation fee. In contrast, I saw a friend of my daughters bill who was a Virginia Tech student. He had 5 or 6 itemized fees in addition to tuition that included varsity athletics. In seemed wrong to me that Universities from the same state would handle this issue so differently.

You mean they are hiding what they are charging students?

No way.


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[TheRevSFA]

SFA in 2016: 1.2 million in student fees, in 2017, 0

NDSU 1.6 mil

JMU 39 million

jesus Christ glad I’m not a department head trying to get money at JMU

[Daytripper]

The gap will widen. NDSU and JMU should go FBS. No other FCS programs can realistically do this...

[Professor Chaos]

The gap will widen. NDSU and JMU should go FBS. No other FCS programs can realistically do this...
NDSU isn't even in the top 10 nationally when it comes to FCS athletic budgets.

FCOA for most FCS schools is between $500K-$750K so it's not like it's a budget buster given D1 athletic budgets these days.

[centennial]

The gap will widen. NDSU and JMU should go FBS. No other FCS programs can realistically do this...

JMU cannot move to the FBS. They have state laws for funding level. They would have to stop taking at least 20 million from the students and triple their own private funding.

JMU on it's own is a regional school with $80 million endowment. Just because it is pillaging it's students does not mean it is ready to go to the FBS, especially after law passed for them to stop their behavior (which they are clearly not). SHSU has more endowment and is a little better academically than JMU. Hell NDSU has a $200 million endowment .Delaware who they like comparing to is $1.3 billion.

[BDKJMU]

JMU cannot move to the FBS. They have state laws for funding level. They would have to stop taking at least 20 million from the students and triple their own private funding.

JMU on it's own is a regional school with $80 million endowment. Just because it is pillaging it's students does not mean it is ready to go to the FBS, especially after law passed for them to stop their behavior (which they are clearly not). SHSU has more endowment and is a little better academically than JMU. Hell NDSU has a $200 million endowment .Delaware who they like comparing to is $1.3 billion.

While JMU’s endoemt isnt good, its over 100 million, and growing rapidly. More than doubled since 2010. 2006-2017 avg increase 9.5% a year. At its current growth rate would hit 200 million 2025..
https://issuu.com/jamesmadisonuniversity/docs/mm18spring/14?ff=true

[centennial]

While JMU’s endoemt isnt good, its over 100 million, and growing rapidly. More than doubled since 2010. 2006-2017 avg increase 9.5% a year. At its current growth rate would hit 200 million 2025..
https://issuu.com/jamesmadisonuniversity/docs/mm18spring/14?ff=true

Still a regional university with disproportionate funding from students. And a few years does not make a trend. Every subsequent year gets harder to maintain growth. Look at US growth rates vs China, and the Chinese will slow down too eventually.

You can argue this how ever much you want, everyone here will give JMU **** till it decides to either take it's place as a smallish FCS school or increase private funding on it's own. This is the other reason FBS conferences outside the Sun Belt won't be interested, average academics and high student funding. Finding a FBS conference is about finding a peer school, and right now the only peers for JMU is the Sun Belt (not American).

[BDKJMU]

Still a regional university with disproportionate funding from students. And a few years does not make a trend. Every subsequent year gets harder to maintain growth. Look at US growth rates vs China, and the Chinese will slow down too eventually.

You can argue this how ever much you want, everyone here will give JMU **** till it decides to either take it's place as a smallish FCS school or increase private funding on it's own. This is the other reason FBS conferences outside the Sun Belt won't be interested, average academics and high student funding. Finding a FBS conference is about finding a peer school, and right now the only peers for JMU is the Sun Belt (not American).

The current growth rate has been way more than a few years. And I expect it to continue for the next several decades at near double digit annual growth, because JMU’s alumni base, esp males, is proportionally very young. Didn’t become coed until 1966. The oldest male alumni are around 70, and the ones in their 60s are only a tiny fraction of the alumni. The schools explosive growth really didn’t begin until the 90s. Have a very young, much smaller, and more heavily female alumni base than most other universities the size of JMU.

And JMU’s academics are well above average...

[JMUisat14]

Still a regional university with disproportionate funding from students. And a few years does not make a trend. Every subsequent year gets harder to maintain growth. Look at US growth rates vs China, and the Chinese will slow down too eventually.

You can argue this how ever much you want, everyone here will give JMU **** till it decides to either take it's place as a smallish FCS school or increase private funding on it's own. This is the other reason FBS conferences outside the Sun Belt won't be interested, average academics and high student funding. Finding a FBS conference is about finding a peer school, and right now the only peers for JMU is the Sun Belt (not American).

You know what's really funny to me about this whole conversation? If people felt like they were getting ripped off, they wouldn't send their kids or get their own degree from JMU. Virginia has one of the best public higher education systems in the country. There are plenty of other choices. Y'all are acting just like the super-PC crowd. You're acting hurt and insulted on someone else's behalf when that other person doesn't even want the empathy... because they don't care.

JMU offers a great education at a price that people are willing to pay. It seems like you want to tell all those people they're stupid for making that decision?


You're also acting like nothing is being done to fix the issue when that's just not true.

[RootinFerDukes]

Jmuisat hit the nail on the head. Like I said, you can go to other schools with lower fees and still end up paying more.

Most people in the real world care about the total cost on the bottom line.

[Madisonian]

Jmuisat hit the nail on the head. Like I said, you can go to other schools with lower fees and still end up paying more.

Most people in the real world care about the total cost on the bottom line.

Let me just leave this right here:

https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/public/#50781fd35249

[F'N Hawks]

You know what's really funny to me about this whole conversation? If people felt like they were getting ripped off, they wouldn't send their kids or get their own degree from JMU. Virginia has one of the best public higher education systems in the country. There are plenty of other choices. Y'all are acting just like the super-PC crowd. You're acting hurt and insulted on someone else's behalf when that other person doesn't even want the empathy... because they don't care.

JMU offers a great education at a price that people are willing to pay. It seems like you want to tell all those people they're stupid for making that decision?


You're also acting like nothing is being done to fix the issue when that's just not true.

Bison fans know everything, all the time. As evidenced by this message board.

[KPSUL]

The comments I've made are solely in response to JMU fans posting about the University offering full COA both on this thread and the CAA Pre-Season Thread. I stand by the valid criticism I've made: JMU reneged on a pledge it signed along with dozens of other college/university presidents only a few years ago, and unlike other prominent Virginia state schools, JMU provide no transparency on the athletic department funding coming from the tuition paid by its students, parents and external scholarship sources. As far as the criticism of JMU academics and the overall quality of the institution that has been made here, well it is simple not accurate. JMU is growing in reputation and popularity faster than any Virginia state school - and that is saying a lot since Virginia has one of the 2 or 3 best public higher education system in the country.

[Derby City Duke]

The comments I've made are solely in response to JMU fans posting about the University offering full COA both on this thread and the CAA Pre-Season Thread. I stand by the valid criticism I've made: JMU reneged on a pledge it signed along with dozens of other college/university presidents only a few years ago, and unlike other prominent Virginia state schools, JMU provide no transparency on the athletic department funding coming from the tuition paid by its students, parents and external scholarship sources. As far as the criticism of JMU academics and the overall quality of the institution that has been made here, well it is simple not accurate. JMU is growing in reputation and popularity faster than any Virginia state school - and that is saying a lot since Virginia has one of the 2 or 3 best public higher education system in the country.

This is the only place I've been able to find any info on how JMU breaks down its tuition and fees into categories. I still don' know what is in the sausage of each category, but it's all I can find at this point. Appendix D-1 and D-2 (begins on page 37 of the SCHEV report).

http://www.schev.edu/docs/default-source/Reports-and-Studies/2017/tuition-and-fees-report-2017-18d557ba50bece61aeb256ff000079de01.pdf

[UAalum72]

If a school can financially support the sport(s) it’s not beneficial. Underfunding. Under supporting academically. Straining other areas that don’t need to be.

That is a bad thing.

Same principle that families live with. Live within your means. Having a ton of sports and luxuries is akin to a low middle class family living with a house 50% bigger than needed. 2 new cars. Brand new high end phones. Computers. TVs. Gaming systems. Etc. can they make it happen? Sure if they spend every penny they have on those things - and then get assistance from others.

If you need 40 million dollars from your general student population to find your program - you’re doing it wrong and living way above your means.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHarvard is not lower middle-class.


I don’t think too many FCS schools outside the Ivy have more than 20 sports, most fewer than 18. And if you have M/W outdoor track, indoor track, and cross-country, that’s six sports using the athletes of two.

[Twentysix]

that is saying a lot since Virginia has one of the 2 or 3 best public higher education system in the country.

I doubt that very much. I don't doubt that there is some article saying that the Virginia system is the best, I doubt that empirically it is in the top 3.



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[grayghost06]

Jmuisat hit the nail on the head. Like I said, you can go to other schools with lower fees and still end up paying more.

Most people in the real world care about the total cost on the bottom line.


This is the crux of the whole discussion, yet the same group of knuckle draggers repeatedly can't get beyond it. JMU's tuition is ridiculously cheap for the bang you get for the buck. If it makes you happy to pay the same for a lesser college experience and quality of education, have at it. The fact is most state supported universities, many of which can't hold a candle to JMU (especially FCS schools), are more expensive . What rational person gives a crap how the money is divided up. If a prospective college student can't recognize the value that JMU's total cost of attendance represents, or is so hung up about how that money is apportioned, they should look elsewhere. Go to Mason, Christopher Newport or VCU if you're so damn concerned how your total bill is portioned out. Have fun paying more for less.

[KPSUL]

I doubt that very much. I don't doubt that there is some article saying that the Virginia system is the best, I doubt that empirically it is in the top 3.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I agree that it is a highly subjective claim - I should have said "arguably" one of the top 2 or 3 systems.

[BDKJMU]

“On Thursday, the Daily News-Record reported JMU will provide cost-of-attendance stipends across all sports for incoming and returning scholarship athletes beginning in the fall of 2019.

On Friday, Houston said it’s a “game changer” for his program.

“It’s something that I’ve been pushing for since I got here. The top programs in the country offer cost of attendance. There are programs in the [Colonial Athletic Association] that are beginning to offer cost of attendance also and we expect to remain competitive and relevant at the level we’re accustomed to.”

Houston said over the past couple of years, he’s lost out on recruits because the Dukes didn’t have cost-of-attendance stipends to give. The 2019 recruiting class is the first to see it on their official written offers from the school.

“All the FBS teams are doing it. And to be honest, those are the ones we recruit against, so it’s a big factor. We get into the school year where our guys with the amount of time they spend working, training, rehabbing and preparing for each week on top of their school work is extremely demanding. These guys don’t have the ability to get a part-time job because they don’t have any free time. They can’t go do what the regular students can do, so many of these guys have financial need. And it’s money to do laundry, go buy deodorant, toothbrush, toothpaste or to drive home to see their parents during the open weekend. It seems like trivial things, but they now at least have a source to help with that.””
https://jamesmadison.rivals.com/news/houston-enjoys-solid-start-to-camp

[centennial]

The current growth rate has been way more than a few years. And I expect it to continue for the next several decades at near double digit annual growth, because JMU’s alumni base, esp males, is proportionally very young. Didn’t become coed until 1966. The oldest male alumni are around 70, and the ones in their 60s are only a tiny fraction of the alumni. The schools explosive growth really didn’t begin until the 90s. Have a very young, much smaller, and more heavily female alumni base than most other universities the size of JMU.

And JMU’s academics are well above average...

In a few decades JMU's endowment will be GDP of a small country then. And the academics are average, show me how you are better than several research institutions in the Sun Belt?


You know what's really funny to me about this whole conversation? If people felt like they were getting ripped off, they wouldn't send their kids or get their own degree from JMU. Virginia has one of the best public higher education systems in the country. There are plenty of other choices. Y'all are acting just like the super-PC crowd. You're acting hurt and insulted on someone else's behalf when that other person doesn't even want the empathy... because they don't care.

JMU offers a great education at a price that people are willing to pay. It seems like you want to tell all those people they're stupid for making that decision?


You're also acting like nothing is being done to fix the issue when that's just not true.

The point being made was students are being made to fund athletics at a ridiculous rate. Per student among the highest the country. Roughly 20k students are funding 40 million. Either the school can be cheaper or that money should be spend on the students.

Also your whole argument is called changing the goal post. Did I ever call any students stupid for going to JMU? And personal insults calling me super-PC? I am neither hurt or insulted, get over your self.

[BDKJMU]

In a few decades JMU's endowment will be GDP of a small country then. And the academics are average, show me how you are better than several research institutions in the Sun Belt?

The point being made was students are being made to fund athletics at a ridiculous rate. Per student among the highest the country. Roughly 20k students are funding 40 million. Either the school can be cheaper or that money should be spend on the students.

While just over 100 million now, if for the next it rougly doubled every 8 years, like it did in the last 8, still isn’t going to put in the range of small countries in 2-3 decades outside of some tiny 3rd world ****hole. And it will be 30 years until the current and post growth (starting in the 1990s) alumni are in their 50s-60s

You claimed 80 million endowment when its over 100 million. You say 20k students when its close to 23k full time (22,667 total enrollement Fall 2017, and will probably be over 23k this fall).
http://www.jmu.edu/about/fact-and-figures.shtml
If you’re going to criticize JMU’s student fees you should at least get your facts straight.

You’re the one brought up and keep on making the claim that JMU is academically average. You come up with source/rankings to back that. The freshman class figures (above) certainly indicate well above the national average for public universities. And a university doesnt have to be considered a research institution to have above avg academics.

[Madisonian]

In a few decades JMU's endowment will be GDP of a small country then. And the academics are average, show me how you are better than several research institutions in the Sun Belt

So... By what measure are you providing that JMU is average academically? Let’s see your data behind the comparison you made earlier to SHSU.

[DFW HOYA]

So... By what measure are you providing that JMU is average academically? Let’s see your data behind the comparison you made earlier to SHSU.

Average doesn't mean bad, it means that it is within the mean of the institutions surveyed. It's not a stretch to conclude that among Virginia public universities, JMU is behind Virginia, Virginia Tech, William & Mary, and VMI, peers to George Mason, Old Dominion, and Virginia Commonwealth, and more competitive than the likes of Radford, Longwood, Norfolk State, Virginia State, and Virginia-Wise.

[clenz]

JMU is a regional university.

JMU isn’t even the top ranked university in their region. They are behind the likes of Stetson, Belmont, The Citadel, Stamford, Elon and Rollins.

They are almost identical to App State (who has historically caught a ton of crap for academics), Berry, CofC, and UNC Wilmington.

I don’t know exactly what the best value is supposed to indicate but being 55th and almost every school anhead of JMU is in the Virginia’s, Carolinas, Tennessee, Florida and then Arkansas has a bunch. What that tells me is JMU is average, or below, for the region in terms of value.

From JMUs profile only 12% of students get need based aid and the average cost to student after aid is $37,267.


No one is saying your academics are bad. Simply they aren’t this world class level you all seem to want to believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KPSUL]

You say 20k students when its close to 23k full time (22,667 total enrollement Fall 2017, and will probably be over 23k this fall).



Your comment demonstrates the biggest problem with culture at JMU. Bigger is not necessarily better, in fact rapid growth creates management challenges that are frequently impossible to surmount. When my daughter started at JMU in the Fall of 2012 I was surprised that there was only enough student housing for Freshmen and a handful of Sophomores. Since then, enrollment has increased by more than 10%. During this period JMU has seen a significant number of facility improvements, but I don't think they have built any new student housing. Consequently, the vast majority of JMU live in ginormous privately owned apartment complexes adjacent to the campus. Putting thousands of 19 an 20 year olds in this kind of housing, out of the span of control of university housing and administration, breeds quality of life and health issues. While alcohol abuse, and mental health problems like depression and anxiety disorder are a big problem on most college campuses, these problems are at epidemic levels at JMU. Providing Full COA funding to varsity athletes who are already housed, tutored, counseled and fed in the schools best facilities, is nice for that small portion of the student body. However it is completely reasonable for a student, parent or VA taxpayer to want to know what portion of the tuition bill and is being used to fund athletic program when the university is unable to provide on-campus housing to 75% of its students.

If you want to stop reading this type of criticism of JMU on the FCS message board then stop posting threads gloating about how much more funding JMU provides to the football program than any of its FCS competitors. Stick to purely football issues - that's why most of us participate here.

[Gangtackle11]

JMU Is considered by many in the Northeast as an alternative school for upper middle class students who can’t get in to the better Northeast schools academically.

That said, it’s in a pretty place & priced reasonably. They also take their football seriously.xpeacexxpeacex

[clenz]

JMU Is considered by many in the Northeast as an alternative school for upper middle class students who can’t get in to the better Northeast schools academically.

That said, it’s in a pretty place & priced reasonably. They also take their football seriously.xpeacexxpeacex

Right. So it’s a regional university. In many respects you just described nearly every well ranked regional university.

Good academics, but not superb (though some schools may have a major or two they do very well by any standards used) academics. Priced as an attractive option for pretty much anyone.




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[NoVABison]

This whole who has the better academics argument seems pretty stupid to be having on an FCS Football forum... who cares -- After completing two graduate degrees, I have concluded that academic success is all about how you apply yourself... Unless you have an Ivy League degree nobody cares.

As for depending on student fees or school funding to fund your Athletic Program... How else are they suppose to get funding? Most FCS teams are located in states where they are competing for attention with P5 teams, and to some extent the NFL -- that makes it almost impossible to create a huge rabid fan base that will generate "non allocated revenue" necessary to be less dependent on school funds. In the less populated western states, like the Dakotas and Montana, they are the big draw, and can generate outside revenue.

As an alum of NDSU I am really impressed by the way they manage their athletic budget... but I am not going to criticize how other schools fund athletics. Everybody has a different situation they are dealing with.

[RootinFerDukes]

This whole who has the better academics argument seems pretty stupid to be having on an FCS Football forum... who cares -- After completing two graduate degrees, I have concluded that academic success is all about how you apply yourself... Unless you have an Ivy League degree nobody cares.

As for depending on student fees or school funding to fund your Athletic Program... How else are they suppose to get funding? Most FCS teams are located in states where they are competing for attention with P5 teams, and to some extent the NFL -- that makes it almost impossible to create a huge rabid fan base that will generate "non allocated revenue" necessary to be less dependent on school funds. In the less populated western states, like the Dakotas and Montana, they are the big draw, and can generate outside revenue.

As an alum of NDSU I am really impressed by the way they manage their athletic budget... but I am not going to criticize how other schools fund athletics. Everybody has a different situation they are dealing with.

Look at this reasonable post. It almost doesn't fit in with the endless whining from people that don't really know what they're talking about but, hey, their opinion matters damnit.

[BDKJMU]

Your comment demonstrates the biggest problem with culture at JMU. Bigger is not necessarily better, in fact rapid growth creates management challenges that are frequently impossible to surmount. When my daughter started at JMU in the Fall of 2012 I was surprised that there was only enough student housing for Freshmen and a handful of Sophomores. Since then, enrollment has increased by more than 10%. During this period JMU has seen a significant number of facility improvements, but I don't think they have built any new student housing. Consequently, the vast majority of JMU live in ginormous privately owned apartment complexes adjacent to the campus. Putting thousands of 19 an 20 year olds in this kind of housing, out of the span of control of university housing and administration, breeds quality of life and health issues. While alcohol abuse, and mental health problems like depression and anxiety disorder are a big problem on most college campuses, these problems are at epidemic levels at JMU. Providing Full COA funding to varsity athletes who are already housed, tutored, counseled and fed in the schools best facilities, is nice for that small portion of the student body. However it is completely reasonable for a student, parent or VA taxpayer to want to know what portion of the tuition bill and is being used to fund athletic program when the university is unable to provide on-campus housing to 75% of its students.

If you want to stop reading this type of criticism of JMU on the FCS message board then stop posting threads gloating about how much more funding JMU provides to the football program than any of its FCS competitors. Stick to purely football issues - that's why most of us participate here.
-Agree with you on the growth- just stating the facts. I never have been a proponent of the state mandated growth rate of JMU. A slower rate of growth IMHOP would have been ok. But I think its been growing too fast for at least the last 25 years..
-Agree with you about the need for more transparency in regards to student fees. I wish more things in life that you spend $$ on had fuller transparency.
-Nothing wrong in the offseason talking about MH’s big new contract, getting COA, etc. that is pretty relevant football news, esp for thr offseason. JMU isnt the first to offer COA- nothing earth shattering about that. I wouldnt have started a separate thread but have put it in the CAA Offseason thread. And it was non JMU posters who started the academic dick measuring contest.

When you’re one of the top programs in the country, people are going to to dislike you, irregardless of talk about funding, recruiting, or anything else. Haters gonna hate.

[BDKJMU]

JMU is a regional university.

JMU isn’t even the top ranked university in their region. They are behind the likes of Stetson, Belmont, The Citadel, Stamford, Elon and Rollins.

They are almost identical to App State (who has historically caught a ton of crap for academics), Berry, CofC, and UNC Wilmington.

I don’t know exactly what the best value is supposed to indicate but being 55th and almost every school anhead of JMU is in the Virginia’s, Carolinas, Tennessee, Florida and then Arkansas has a bunch. What that tells me is JMU is average, or below, for the region in terms of value.

From JMUs profile only 12% of students get need based aid and the average cost to student after aid is $37,267.


No one is saying your academics are bad. Simply they aren’t this world class level you all seem to want to believe.


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Does USN & WR rankings still carry any weight? #2 out of 47 seems above average to me.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/search?ranking=top-public&school-type=regional-universities-south

[RootinFerDukes]

Does USN & WR rankings still carry any weight? #2 out of 47 seems above average to me.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/search?ranking=top-public&school-type=regional-universities-south

The academic dick measuring contest is even funnier when you realize they're completing disregarding their own university's ranking in comparison to the one they're attempting to belittle. It's like measurable comparisons don't exist.

[NoVABison]

-Agree with you on the growth- just stating the facts. I never have been a proponent of the state mandated growth rate of JMU. A slower rate of growth IMHOP would have been ok. But I think its been growing too fast for at least the last 25 years..
-Agree with you about the need for more transparency in regards to student fees. I wish more things in life that you spend $$ on had fuller transparency.
-Nothing wrong in the offseason talking about MH’s big new contract, getting COA, etc. that is pretty relevant football news, esp for thr offseason. JMU isnt the first to offer COA- nothing earth shattering about that. I wouldnt have started a separate thread but have put it in the CAA Offseason thread. And it was non JMU posters who started the academic dick measuring contest.

When you’re one of the top programs in the country, people are going to to dislike you, irregardless of talk about funding, recruiting, or anything else. Haters gonna hate.

The bottom line on FCOA -- it was pretty smart to start offering it... JMU like NDSU is trying to recruit players that have G5 (and sometimes P5) interest. Being able to offer FCOA levels the playing field, consistent winning, and a high probability of playing a game in January makes an FCS juggernaut more attractive to many of these high level prospects.

[caa51]

Is there a list of FCS schools that offer COA stipend?

[grayghost06]

The academic comparison of JMU & SHSU is not even worthy of discussion. It's not even close. But feel free to pontificate away Centennial.

[KPSUL]

-Agree with you on the growth- just stating the facts. I never have been a proponent of the state mandated growth rate of JMU. A slower rate of growth IMHOP would have been ok. But I think its been growing too fast for at least the last 25 years..
-Agree with you about the need for more transparency in regards to student fees. I wish more things in life that you spend $$ on had fuller transparency.
-Nothing wrong in the offseason talking about MH’s big new contract, getting COA, etc. that is pretty relevant football news, esp for thr offseason. JMU isnt the first to offer COA- nothing earth shattering about that. I wouldnt have started a separate thread but have put it in the CAA Offseason thread. And it was non JMU posters who started the academic dick measuring contest.

When you’re one of the top programs in the country, people are going to to dislike you, irregardless of talk about funding, recruiting, or anything else. Haters gonna hate.

I didn't realize the growth rate was mandated by the state, that is not a decision that should be made above the level of the school administration or the Board of Visitors. I agree with you that academic measuring contests do not belong on a football board, and there are dozens of different criteria so it is pretty much pointless.

[centennial]

The academic comparison of JMU & SHSU is not even worthy of discussion. It's not even close. But feel free to pontificate away Centennial.

SHSU is a national university(more research and programs offered), JMU is a regional one. Both have 72% acceptance rates, similar endowments. With that all said, I'm out of this conversation. Pointless to argue because it is subjective. Enjoy your COA and impending move to FBS.

[JMUisat14]

SHSU is a national university(more research and programs offered), JMU is a regional one. Both have 72% acceptance rates, similar endowments. With that all said, I'm out of this conversation. Pointless to argue because it is subjective. Enjoy your COA and impending move to FBS.

I'm tired of this argument and I've hardly been involved, but I'm not going to sit here and let you spin the facts. You manage to continually leave out anything regarding acceptance requirements. It takes two minutes to see JMU's test score and GPA requirements are significantly higher than average (and SHSU's... and NDSU's...). Not to mention comparing a 72% acceptance rate from two populations that barely, if at all, overlap doesn't tell us anything. It's really not subjective unless you want to ignore facts and push a narrative.

[Longhorn]

And being bad in other sports.

MBB last in CAA
BB third to last and not over 500
MGolf middle of the pack
MSoc middle ornkust above middle of the pack
MTen middle of the pack


Women’s sports did better
WXC won the conference meet
WBB second
Field hockey lost in the semis of the conference tournament
Tennis won the title
Swimming won the title
Lacrosse won the title
Softball didn’t do so well


Maybe FCOA fixes the issues in the men’s teams because the women are carrying that athletic department


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So happy you’re concerned about the state of JMU athletics, but your stats are off.

Softball didnt do well? The Softball team made the NCAAT (for the 6th year in a row). WBB the NIT, winning a couple games (9th straight season in either the NCAAT or NIT), Field Hockey made the NCAAT. WLAX won the NC. Of course, the FB team also played for the NC (back-to-back appearances), and overall, varsity athletics at JMU won the VA award for posting the #1 winning percentage across all sports for D1 schools in VA (second year in a row).

Yes, MBB and Baseball are struggling, but the overall health of JMU is quite well, Thank you very much.