SoCon Pre-Season / "Camp Life" Thread

[FUBeAR]

Per kd's suggestion, starting a new SoCon thread as we move away from "Off-Season" and into the "Pre-Season"

I know Wofford and VMI fans will be THRILLED to move away from Off-Seasons of much change. Maybe CIT & ETSU fans as well. :D

So, we can use this thread for updates / discussions of what's going on with the 9 SoCon Teams as they begin their Pre-Season Camps and get ready for those 8/30 (Samford & Chattanooga) and 9/1 (the other 7 with CIT & WOF vs. each other) Opening Day games.

I think this would be a great place for Samford, Wofford, WCU, Chattanooga, Citadel, ETSU, and VMI Fans to post ALL of the inside details of their Teams' camps. New schemes, injured players, players in new positions, coaching staff rifts, QB controversies, all of that sort of stuff. HAVE AT IT!

I'll start with some of that juicy 'insider' stuff on Mercer and Furman...

...Players from both Furman and Mercer will be reporting for camp soon. All of the Players on the online rosters are expected to report AND there may be a few others added after they report!

You heard it hear 1st!

[FUBeAR]

OK....I'll actually share some "Insider Stuff" on the Bears...

Welp....I was gonna say that this guy is not on the Online Roster, but I expect him to be added when Players report...but he has just been added. Barring injury, I expect him to be an impact Player for Mercer's D in 2018...

https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6576

Still trying to come up with some Bears scoop for y'all...how about learning the inside scoop on how Mercer runs their Outside Zone / Stretch play or what are the techniques they use to have the #1 Kickoff Coverage Team in the country?...See below...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHVZYa-KZRM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXi15YwelMc

[SU DOG]

Not only do you expect him to be an "impact player" but haven't you already compared him to Davis Tull? That might be a stretch don't ya think?

[FUBeAR]

Not only do you expect him to be an "impact player" but haven't you already compared him to Davis Tull? That might be a stretch don't ya think?
My exact comment was...

”Also, I may be committing SoCon blasphemy here, but when I look at these highlights, the comparison that comes to my mind - in terms of speed, aggressiveness, and ‘motor’ - is Davis Tull, former Chatt. DE, who was 3-time SoCon DPOY. Hope that lofty comparison doesn’t ‘jinx’ him. “ (bolding added)

Nope - not a stretch. I stand by that exact wording of that comment. I watched Mr. Earnest’s highlight film and some of Mr. Tull’s videos several times consecutively to be sure that I was actually seeing what I thought I was seeing when I watched Mr. Earnest’s highlight the 1st time. Very similar looking Players in those videos. If Mr. Earnest plays (consistently) on the field with the aggressiveness and & motor evident in his highlights, he will be an impact Player.

1 caveat. I believe Mercer is going to use him in an OLB role in a 3-man Front. In the highlight video, he is playing (mostly) with his hand on the ground in a 4-man front at Miami, as Mr. Tull did during his days with the Mocs. I LOVED Mr. Earnest with his hand on the ground. I only ‘liked him a lot’ in the few plays he was playing a stand up LB position. Obviously, Mercer’s base front is 3-man and the DE role in that alignment is different than the DE role in a 4 man front; so I’m OK with them ‘calling’ him a LB. That said, Mercer (as does any 3-4 Team) walks-up 1 OLB quite often...and often that OLB will be in a 3 or 4 point stance. In the old days, when FU ran a “50” D (which is more similar to a 3-4 than not), we had a Rush End & a Drop End, which often put us, essentially, into a 4-3 alignment. So, if Mercer calls him an OLB and we MOSTLY see him as a “Rush End” in that role, I think we will all be able to see some Tull-like-moments. If, on the other hand, we see him in a 2 point and in more of a ‘Drop End’ role or in an ILB (please, NO!) role, then he will probably only be a solid contributor for Mercer.

It’s not just about HAVING the horses. They have to be run right.

(BTW - PROPS to you, SU DOG, for the preemptive strike in posting this nugget before I took the opportunity to post about you quite favorably comparing Samford’s Football program to that of NDSU. I don’t recall the exact context, but I’m almost positive that it had NOTHING to do with winning Playoff Games.)

[SU DOG]

You must NOT remember the context at all, and it had nothing to do with winning football games or comparing to the NDSU program(Bama of FCS) period. It was in response to your dismay of big OL. Hope your recall problem gets better.

[Milktruck74]

With-out two-a-days, is it even "camp" anymore? Part of me understands the decision to limit practices to prevent injury, but are they truly preventing injuries, or are they increasing "heat related" episodes in the early season?

[PaladinFan]

With-out two-a-days, is it even "camp" anymore? Part of me understands the decision to limit practices to prevent injury, but are they truly preventing injuries, or are they increasing "heat related" episodes in the early season?

It is different, certainly.

As a player who played both ways in high school (and snapped on special teams) and endured two a days in South Georgia, those sorts of practices are character building. Not sure if they are productive or helpful, but character building. Much tougher than what those players had to go through in more northern parts of the country, like Atlanta. xrotatehx

[SU DOG]

I don't know who Kristen Banks is, but from seeing her in these videos, I think Mercer might have an unfair recruiting weapon.xnodx

[PaladinFan]

I liked this video Furman threw up there today. Its a good example of how the Furman offense creates headaches for defenses.

It's fourth and 2. Furman has a TE, FB (Dirks), and TB (Luke) in the game. Furman's grand advantage last year was beating teams with matchups. This is another example. I'm not sure how a DC deploys his defense against this look.

ETSU has no chance on the play. None of this is "fancy." It's just taking advantage of matchups and getting there "firstest with the mostest."

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1024293716410785794

[FUBeAR]

I liked this video Furman threw up there today. Its a good example of how the Furman offense creates headaches for defenses.

It's fourth and 2. Furman has a TE, FB (Dirks), and TB (Luke) in the game. Furman's grand advantage last year was beating teams with matchups. This is another example. I'm not sure how a DC deploys his defense against this look.

ETSU has no chance on the play. None of this is "fancy." It's just taking advantage of matchups and getting there "firstest with the mostest."

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1024293716410785794I’m no DC, but I’m pretty sure a good way to get beat on D is to match up my 5 vs. their 6 on the Wide side of the field. This is just pee-poor Coaching. FU only blocked 4 of the 5 and either the dive can probably go in almost untouched (as he did) or the pitch man could have.

Actually, Furman only BLOCKED 1 man (of the 5 on the Playside) - the p/s DE. They ran off the CB in Man Coverage, the OLB was unblocked & had QB assignment (presumably), the p/s Safety completely took himself out of the play with taking an awful angle, and the p/s ILB blitzed A-Gap taking himself out of the play.

If you can’t line even up on D, you better hope the Offense finds a way to beat themselves. If the O really only has to make 1 block, they aren’t likely to beat themselves.

Funny also that your hear the announcer starting to heap praise on FU’s O-Line. Only the LT & the TE (#72 & #80) needed to make their blocks. The rest of them, basically, could have just fallen down at the snap & it still would have been a TD. O-Line always takes too much blame & rarely gets too much credit, but this one time they did. This is really just a case of FU clearly OUTCOACHING their opponents.

[PaladinFan]

There's a lot wrong with that play defensively. It looks like a 3-4 under with the OLB lined up on the wrong side of the play. Both DEs look head up on the OTs, but then ETSU puts a man on the line opposite the TE.

You would think someone needed to be lined up over the TE to the playside. There are not many DEs (any?) in the SoCon that can fight off that double team.

The OLB to the playside is left out to dry. He may have the QB, but Furman probably goes to the house with either the FB or the pitch. He's got no chance to defend either.

I agree with you, the safety took pretty awful angles. Not that I'd want to get in front of Dirks with a full head of steam either. Seems like the safety should have been the one up on the line across form Luke while the OLB handled the TE.

While its a bad defensive play, you did see Furman do that to teams over and over again. I said this a while back, but Furman's offense didn't necessarily out-talent the defenses, they out executed them.

[PaladinFan]

Well, file under "surprising," but it looks like Connor Shaw resigned his post as Furman TE coach to enter the private sector.

http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180731o6ljeq

Dru Drake has been around the program for a bit and this will be his first entrance to coaching.

[kdinva]

Well, file under "surprising," but it looks like Connor Shaw resigned his post as Furman TE coach to enter the private sector.



very strange timing.........I guess the private sector job has lots of $$$$$ and benefits (like no 75 hour work weeks....)

[SU DOG]

I thought that was Doogie Howser in that picture. Seriously though, I remember congratulating Furman on the hiring of Connor Shaw. I thought he would probably be a really good recruiter as well as a fine coach. Young Dru Drake may do a good job, but I would have some concern with this swap if I was a Furman Fan.

[FUBeAR]

It’s DUKE, not Drake. Drake is the rapper, whose lyrics, if you quoted them on Twitter 7 years ago when you were a teenager, will render you a national pariah. So, it’s Duke, as in the James Buchanan Duke Library or the Duke Endowment...both well-known to Furman Students & Alums.

I don’t know if Dru is one of those Duke’s, but I hope so. And I’m sure he’ll do a fine job Coaching the Paladin TE’s under the watchful eyes of Coach Hendrix, Coach Quarles, Coach Lusk, and Coach Bratton. Y’know, it’s just fun listing off those guys names knowing what outstanding Coaches they are & that they are even better Men than they are Coaches. Sorry, I digressed.

No inside knowledge, but I’m guessing Connor Shaw might be headed to work with the Everett Sports Marketing firm in Greenville. Just a hunch. Probably didn’t LOVE Coaching quite as much as he thought he would and the hours are LONG for a young husband & father. Looks like ESM has a good thing goin and if that’s where he’s headed, I’m sure he will do well...and FU’s TE’s will be just fine.

[PaladinFan]

I thought that was Doogie Howser in that picture. Seriously though, I remember congratulating Furman on the hiring of Connor Shaw. I thought he would probably be a really good recruiter as well as a fine coach. Young Dru Drake may do a good job, but I would have some concern with this swap if I was a Furman Fan.

I mean, yes and no.

From a game standpoint, the TE coach is, in my opinion, the least critical position coach on the field. Much of what they do can be covered by other position groups like OL and WR. If you are going to promote a grad assistant to a position coach, TE is probably your best bet. Besides, Furman has a lot of coaching experience on the offensive side of the ball. Drake has been around the program and worked under Hendrix, so I doubt there will be much of an issue from the x's and o's.

From a personnel standpoint, losing Shaw probably hurts a bit just because he was going to be a really impressive ambassador for the university. If the guy does not want to coach, though, I'm glad we know that now.

[PaladinFan]

It’s DUKE, not Drake. Drake is the rapper, whose lyrics, if you quoted them on Twitter 7 years ago when you were a teenager, will render you a natural O’Neal pariah. So, it’s Duke, as in the James Buchanan Duke Library or the Duke Endowment...both well-known to Furman Students & Alums.

I don’t know if Dru is one of those Duke’s, but I hope so. And I’m sure he’ll do a fine job Coaching the Paladin TE’s under the watchful eyes of Coach Hendrix, Coach Quarles, Coach Lusk, and Coach Bratton. Y’know, it’s just fun listing off those guys names knowing what outstanding Coaches they are & that they are even better Men than they are Coaches. Sorry, I digressed.

No inside knowledge, but I’m guessing Connor Shaw might be headed to work with the Everett Sports Marketing firm in Greenville. Just a hunch. Probably didn’t LOVE Coaching quite as much as he thought he would and the hours are LONG for a young husband & father. Looks like ESM has a good thing goin and if that’s where he’s headed, I’m sure he will do well...and FU’s TE’s will be just fine.


You're right. I've read his name for a few years and always read it Drake. Mental lapse.

[FUBeAR]

You're right. I've read his name for a few years and always read it Drake. Mental lapse.Library Aversion Syndrome, I would imagine or possibly some type of Coach K hatred you harbor.

I only know the FU Library’s name because there was the world’s most comfortable 7+ foot long white leather couch in the reading room off to the right of the entrance. Many hours of SWEET naps on that couch during my 7 years at Furman.

[sudog03]

Call me crazy, but I think Davis Tull would have had more than 36 tackles in 3 seasons at Miami (OH). That's 12 tackles a year average for you JSU fans. Making evaluations off of someone's highlight tape is ill-advised. Production is what matters. If you want to go with the part of your post that says "tull-like moments",OK, but I'd be in a lot less agreement with the part of your same post that makes a direct comparison with him. I mean dude was DPOY in the league for 3 straight seasons and had 18 TFL alone his senior year.

[cx500d]

Library Aversion Syndrome, I would imagine or possibly some type of Coach K hatred you harbor.

I only know the FU Library’s name because there was the world’s most comfortable 7+ foot long white leather couch in the reading room off to the right of the entrance. Many hours of SWEET naps on that couch during my 7 years at Furman.
7 years? So you left as a sophomore?

[sudog03]

Furman has a good offense, don't get me wrong, but they really padded their number on some bad defenses and DC's last season. Using conference only numbers, they averaged 48.75 points in the 4 games against the worst 4 scoring defenses in the league (VMI, Citadel, ETSU, UTC). In the 5 games against the other 4 teams, they averaged 21.8, going 2-3 in those games. The 2017 Furman offense was a bit of a flat track bully.

[FUBeAR]

7 years? So you left as a sophomore?R-FR

[FUBeAR]

Call me crazy, but I think Davis Tull would have had more than 36 tackles in 3 seasons at Miami (OH). That's 12 tackles a year average for you JSU fans. Making evaluations off of someone's highlight tape is ill-advised. Production is what matters. If you want to go with the part of your post that says "tull-like moments",OK, but I'd be in a lot less agreement with the part of your same post that makes a direct comparison with him. I mean dude was DPOY in the league for 3 straight seasons and had 18 TFL alone his senior year.OK - Please forward the complete game films (wide, tight, and EZ views) (and practice videos, of course) of Miami (OH) 2015-2017 to which you have access, so that my analysis can be as thorough as yours.

Also, here are some 1st 3 seasons career average “Production” / season college QB stats I’d like you to assess...because “Production is what matters”...right?





Passing


G
Cmp
Att
Pct
Yds
TD
Int


6
72
114
63.1
852
4.7
3.7




Pretty nice completion %, but that’s like, what, 1.5 games of production for Devlin Hodges and the TD/INT ratio is atrocious! Certainly this guy is not worthy of any POY accolades. Don’t need to see any video to know that because “production is what matters” and it’s right there in black & white. Right?

So...What do you think? Decent QB or not so much?

[sudog03]

Didn't claim to have practice tapes, nor did I make any evaluation of the kid. Just simply said I wouldn't make a comparison to Tull based off highlight tapes. And if you have found a QB that had limited production for 3 years, with a breakout year his senior season, congrats. But, if you think this kid who had a hard time getting on the field at Miami (OH) is going to be compared to a 3 time DPOY, I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed. But, like I said originally, if all you are counting on is "davis tull moments" then that is more realistic. Just hard to follow with multiple positions taken in the same post.

[FUBeAR]

Didn't claim to have practice tapes, nor did I make any evaluation of the kid. Just simply said I wouldn't make a comparison to Tull based off highlight tapes. And if you have found a QB that had limited production for 3 years, with a breakout year his senior season, congrats. But, if you think this kid who had a hard time getting on the field at Miami (OH) is going to be compared to a 3 time DPOY, I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed. But, like I said originally, if all you are counting on is "davis tull moments" then that is more realistic. Just hard to follow with multiple positions taken in the same post.

So, you haven’t seen any additional video that could make me change my assessment of Mr. Earnest based solely upon his highlight video as I clearly stated. OK, then I’ll stick with my original, SINGULAR assessment.

You said “Production is what matters,” but you seem absolutely reluctant to assess this QB based on his 1st 3 years of college football Production, yet you had no issue with assessing Mr. Earnest (Citing his career & average yearly stats AND comparing him to another Player IS an evaluation) based upon his. That seems a bit disingenuous to me. No? Go ahead, if your production assessing skills are good enough for this Mercer Player, they are surely good enough for this college QB, who, BTW, “had a hard time getting on the field” at his school. Based on his production during the same time frame of which you assessed Mr. Earnest, what do you think based on those numbers. Can he play at a high level or not?

Finally, since we seem to be having some communication and/or comprehension difficulties, let me restate my full and unwavering thoughts on Mr. Earnest...

Based on his Miami highlight video, he reminds me A LOT of Chatt’s great DE, Davis Tull. If Mercer will use him in a similar capacity as Chatt. used Tull, I believe he will be an Impact Player in the SoCon in 2018. If he is an Impact Player, we will, of course, see Tull-like-moments from him this season.

[Note: There is no dichotomy between being an Impact Player & producing Tull-like moments. In fact, they are, essentially, interdependent events.]

And I am not disappointed at all. He already has been compared to Davis Tull. I have compared him based on his video & you have compared him based upon his prior 3 years of “Production.” I am perfectly confident in my comparison as stated, but you seem to be wavering on your (prior 3 years of) “Production is what matters” dictum. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t have any hesitancy to assess that QB on the same criteria.

[FUBeAR]

Furman has a good offense, don't get me wrong, but they really padded their number on some bad defenses and DC's last season. Using conference only numbers, they averaged 48.75 points in the 4 games against the worst 4 scoring defenses in the league (VMI, Citadel, ETSU, UTC). In the 5 games against the other 4 teams, they averaged 21.8, going 2-3 in those games. The 2017 Furman offense was a bit of a flat track bully.
So, because Samford bumbled & stumbled their way through a 3 INT’s / 7 Fumbles (4 lost) loss to Chattanooga; had their Starting O completely shut down & shut out by CIT’s D after only 5 minutes into the 2nd quarter; had their Starting O unable to score a TD & only gain 132 yards in the 2nd half vs. VMI; had their Starting O held to 60 yards (-5 in the 3rd Quarter) and 1 TD in the 2nd half vs. ETSU...you want to cast aspersions at Furman’s Offense?

Seems to me you might want to examine that BAD loss & those failures of Samford’s Starting O to consistently produce/finish vs. “bad defenses & DC’s,” as opposed to parsing Furman’s undefeated & consistent performances vs. those teams and stooping to name calling. (BTW - what is a “flat track bully?”)

[PaladinFan]

Furman has a good offense, don't get me wrong, but they really padded their number on some bad defenses and DC's last season. Using conference only numbers, they averaged 48.75 points in the 4 games against the worst 4 scoring defenses in the league (VMI, Citadel, ETSU, UTC). In the 5 games against the other 4 teams, they averaged 21.8, going 2-3 in those games. The 2017 Furman offense was a bit of a flat track bully.

I think it is intuitive that a team probably performs less well against the better teams on their schedule. Furman was no different than most other teams in that regard. While the Paladin offense was not on par with some of the great offensive units of the last 15 or 20 years, they were (I think) clearly the best group in the league last year. Again, it is worth noting that Furman led the SoCon in offense despite the fact that it was an entirely new offense for everyone, even the coaching staff.

Everything is relative, but if you dig in a bit on the numbers you will find that Furman often quickly throttled down in a lot of games. In many instances, Furman could have put more points, but the coaching staff would scale back the offense and open things up only so much as they needed to secure the win.

I'll be the first to admit (and repeatedly have) that Furman "struggled" (relative to other performances) against teams with stout interior defensive linemen (Namely, NC State, Samford, Wofford). Furman's offense relied heavily on the inside run game to set up the outside run game and play action passing. The only teams that managed to slow Furman down last year are the ones that had the players to limit Furman's inside run game with the fullbacks.

Going into 2018, I think Furman should be in a better position. They have another recruiting class that focused heavily on speed on the offensive side of the ball. They should be able to give Darius Morehead some help at tailback, something they really were not able to do last year. The offensive line will return virtually the entire two deep and have another year under Coach Hendrix. Kealand Dirks, I think, is the best running back in the SoCon and could have a monster season. The Paladin receiving corps, with Thomas Gordon and Cam Burnette, could be the best group Furman has had since the West/Bratton/Reinhart era 15 years ago.

[sudog03]

I must have misunderstood your original post where you started off making a direct comparison to Davis Tull. If you want to settle for you meaning something ambiguous as "impact player or davis tull moments", OK.

In terms of Furman's offense. One, I said they had a good offense. Two, I'm not really sure how Samford's offense has anything to do with Furman's. Three, a "flat track bully" is an English sports term for a team or individual who beats up on inferior opponents but struggles against top level competition.

[PaladinFan]

So, because Samford bumbled & stumbled their way through a 3 INT’s / 7 Fumbles (4 lost) loss to Chattanooga; had their Starting O completely shut down & shut out by CIT’s D after only 5 minutes into the 2nd quarter; had their Starting O unable to score a TD & only gain 132 yards in the 2nd half vs. VMI; had their Starting O held to 60 yards (-5 in the 3rd Quarter) and 1 TD in the 2nd half vs. ETSU...you want to cast aspersions at Furman’s Offense?

Seems to me you might want to examine that BAD loss & those failures of Samford’s Starting O to consistently produce/finish vs. “bad defenses & DC’s,” as opposed to parsing Furman’s undefeated & consistent performances vs. those teams and stooping to name calling. (BTW - what is a “flat track bully?”)

As I have said a bunch, Furman did not out-talent teams last year. They out-executed them. Furman ran a base set of plays out of dozens of different looks and became masters at finding mismatches in both the run and pass game.

I'm excited to see what Furman can do with the ability to finally redshirt players, develop depth, and establish a system.

[sudog03]

And yes, it is not surprising that Furman performed better against inferior competition. I was just a little surprised by the spread. Take the 2nd highest scoring team for example in WCU. Using conference only games, they averaged 26.25 against the top 4 v. 37.75 against the bottom 4 scoring defenses. As you said, matchups certainly play a factor.

[PaladinFan]

And yes, it is not surprising that Furman performed better against inferior competition. I was just a little surprised by the spread. Take the 2nd highest scoring team for example in WCU. Using conference only games, they averaged 26.25 against the top 4 v. 37.75 against the bottom 4 scoring defenses. As you said, matchups certainly play a factor.

I think there is always context.

You note that Furman played 5 games against the other 4 teams, which I presume means you are also counting Furman's second game against Wofford (a game Kealand Dirks did not play in, incidentally). The SoCon does not count that game in their "conference" stats. Even then, Furman would have had to play arguably the league's best defense twice, not once. So, I would expect the team that does not have to do that (like WCU) would look a bit better.

The cynic in me would also point out that Furman and WCU played in a monsoon last season. There was an inch of water on the field. Furman scored 28 points running the fullback 37 times on 60 plays (61%). If Furman can score 28 in Cullowhee in an inch of water just pounding the fullback over half of the plays, I'm inclined to think they probably could have scored a few more times in clear conditions. Furman attempted only four passes that game.

I also am sure you are not counting the touchdown that never was against Samford. How a 6'2 running back can have his shoulders in the endzone but no part of the ball seems like a SoCon ref special. xrolleyesx

[FUBeAR]

I must have misunderstood your original post where you started off making a direct comparison to Davis Tull. If you want to settle for you meaning something ambiguous as "impact player or davis tull moments", OK.

Seriously, do you have a general reading comprehension problem or are you just so dead-set on trying to twist what I clearly said into something else, that you just can’t (or don’t want to) process my words accurately?

”Also, I may be committing SoCon blasphemy here, but when I look at these highlights, the comparison that comes to my mind - in terms of speed, aggressiveness, and ‘motor’ - is Davis Tull, former Chatt. DE, who was 3-time SoCon DPOY. Hope that lofty comparison doesn’t ‘jinx’ him. “ - FUBeAR (4/16/18) (bolding added)

I DID and have continued, without fail, to maintain that I AM making a direct comparison between Bradley Earnest and Davis Tull. That comparison is clearly stated: viewing Mr. Earnest’s highlight video from his play for Miami University is my (only) source for this direct comparison between these 2 Players - Mr Earnest’s play (on this video) brings to my mind the play of Mr. Tull. Thus, I have added to that statement that I believe, based upon this video (with the 1 caveat cited & of course, barring injury) that he will be an impact Player in the SoCon in 2018. I am not “settling” for anything less than or “more ambiguous” than what I originally stated, nor am I claiming anything more.

I continue to note that you are unwilling to assess the Player I cited based upon his “production,” as you were so readily able to do with Mr. Earnest’s prior production. So, I can only assume you have abandoned your prior certain contention that (prior) “production is what matters.” Fair enough, as it is an untenable position. (Prior) production is only 1 aspect of an entire tapestry that one should consider when evaluating a Player. Visual evaluation is a superior analytical resource in such an endeavor. As it was with this QB and, possibly, with Mr. Earnest, prior “production” belied his ability. Incidentally, this QB didn’t really have a “breakout” year in his final year of eligibility. He was never named All-Conference & was pretty much a middle-of-the-pack QB in his 2 years as a Starter. But, some smart people overlooked his (prior) “Production” and ‘transferred’ a QB to their roster who has led them to 8 Super Bowls, 5 NFL Championships, earned 4 Super Bowl MVP awards, 3 NFL MVP awards, and played in 16 Pro Bowls. BTW, before you leap into the deep end, I am NOT comparing Mr. Earnest to Tom Brady. I am only, instead, providing clear evidence of the fallacy of your “production is what matters” assertion.

This is my final ‘engagement’ with you on this topic. If you have a disability of some sort or just desire to be a horse’s hindquarters (that is also a direct comparison), then there is really nothing I can do to change either of those issues.


In terms of Furman's offense. One, I said they had a good offense. Two, I'm not really sure how Samford's offense has anything to do with Furman's. Three, a "flat track bully" is an English sports term for a team or individual who beats up on inferior opponents but struggles against top level competition.
1) Yeah they do. Can’t wait to see it in Year 2!
2) They don’t. I didn’t say they did. I just suggested a more productive use of your time might be spent reflecting upon Samford’s failures on Offense, rather than finding an odd way to denigrate Furman’s successes.
3) Thanks! I am further edified.

[SU DOG]

Wait a minute. FUBeAR(Mister - if you disagree with me you are an idiot) is calling someone else out and asking if he desires to be a horse's hindquarters? I've heard of pot calling kettle black, but this is possibly the most extreme case ever.xlolx

[FUBeAR]

Wait a minute. FUBeAR(Mister - if you disagree with me you are an idiot) is calling someone else out and asking if he desires to be a horse's hindquarters? I've heard of pot calling kettle black, but this is possibly the most extreme case ever.xlolxPlease re-post any evidence of FUBeAR calling anyone an idiot.

Anyone who expresses an opinion should EXPECT there to be disagreement, as I do. Anyone who expresses strong, unpopular, or unusual opinions (as I occasionally do) should EXPECT strong disagreement, as I do.

When challenging such disagreement my aim is to avoid falling into an ad hominem argument (as you have falsely accused & have actually done here) and, instead presenting fact and/or evidence-based commentary or counter-commentary.

Repeatedly restating my opinions erroneously and then criticizing those misstated opinions, without really offering any additional commentary nor evidence, nor responding constructively to any counter-commentary is not “disagreeing,” nor elucidating, nor does it advance the debate around an issue in any substantive way.

It’s just acting like the latter quarter of a quarter horse.

You agree with that, don’t you...you idiot!

JK, of course. See...Humor is a different kettle of fish. There was nothing humorous nor any humorous intent within the posts in question. Well...I don’t know...some may find this funny, I guess xdeadhorsex

[PaladinFan]

Wait a minute. FUBeAR(Mister - if you disagree with me you are an idiot) is calling someone else out and asking if he desires to be a horse's hindquarters? I've heard of pot calling kettle black, but this is possibly the most extreme case ever.xlolx

Here's my take. Tull was a good player. Maybe the best SoCon defensive player of his generation.

Earnest was a reserve at Miami who has not played a whole lot. Maybe he takes the SoCon by storm. Maybe he does not. Maybe he struggles against better competition. xsmiley_wix

[SU DOG]

Here's my take. Tull was a good player. Maybe the best SoCon defensive player of his generation.

Earnest was a reserve at Miami who has not played a whole lot. Maybe he takes the SoCon by storm. Maybe he does not. Maybe he struggles against better competition. xsmiley_wix

IMO. that is a very good summation of the situation. I also like what you did there with the competition remark.:)

[ElCid]

Anyone who expresses an opinion should EXPECT there to be disagreement, as I do.

I disagree with this opinion. Let that sink in.xrotatehx

[FUBeAR]

Here's my take. Tull was a good player. Maybe the best SoCon defensive player of his generation.

Earnest was a reserve at Miami who has not played a whole lot. Maybe he takes the SoCon by storm. Maybe he does not. Maybe he struggles against better competition. xsmiley_wixNothing to argue with there. Mostly fact-based with some subjectivity (which is certainly A-OK) No misrepresentation of anyone else’s stated opinions. No ad hominem arguments.

THIS POST HAS EARNED THE FUBeAR SEAL OF APPROVAL

I would add that you might be right about the competition. Some of the OLmen I saw in that video were obviously in early stages of rigor mortis!

[FUBeAR]

I disagree with this opinion. Let that sink in.xrotatehxMy Phone just died. My iPad just started sparking and my PC gave me the Blue Screen of Death. Thanks El Cid!

[SU DOG]

Hatcher on the rainy day #1 practice today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_6_718o920

[PaladinFan]

Hatcher on the rainy day #1 practice today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_6_718o920

Every time I hear a coach interviewed, I cannot help but think of this:

https://twitter.com/johnbcrist/status/782362496795410432

[FUBeAR]

Just learned that Furman will be holding a Reunion celebrating the 40th Anniversary of the Paladins’ 1st (of 13) SoCon Championship at the Samford @ Furman game this year, which is also Furman’s Homecoming.

o Pre-Game Tailgate at the FFPA Tent(s) overlooking our practice fields
o Pre-Game Introduction for this Remarkable Team on the Field before the coin toss
§ After the coin toss….Coach Sheridan will lead us in a 40 year “breakdown” that will reverberate across Paladin Stadium and serve as motivation to this year’s Championship Caliber team.

Any suggestions for additional participation by FUBeAR, who, it seems, will be on the Field at Kickoff?


NOTE: I have heard a rumor that Samford will be celebrating the 27th Anniversary of their most recent Playoff win that day also. Can anyone confirm that to be the case...or no?

[sudog03]

Wasn't it Furman's homecoming when this happened in 2014?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28341&stc=1

[FUBeAR]

Wasn't it Furman's homecoming when this happened in 2014?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28341&stc=1

dunno, but here’s another Furman Football pic that is equally as relevant.

https://cdn.onlyinyourstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/04-05-football-team-furman-university-700x547.jpg

[PaladinFan]

That Samford/Furman game was one of several during this recent "dark period" in the program's history that was both unexplainable and inexcusable.

Personally, I think Furman had surprised everyone in 2013 with a spunky team buoyed by an unsustainably high turnover margin and Dakota Dozier single handedly making the offense look much better than it was (and it wasn't that good). That bought Bruce Fowler and Co. several more years than they should have otherwise gotten.

That game, in my opinion, was the lowest point of Furman football. A 3 win season with losses to Presbyterian, South Carolina State, the Citadel, and VMI. That 45-0 game was homecoming against a good, but not THAT good Samford team. Just an embarrassing season.

If I were a Samford fan, I wouldn't be banking on a day like that. This coaching staff isn't the last coaching staff.

[SCPALADIN]

That Samford/Furman game was one of several during this recent "dark period" in the program's history that was both unexplainable and inexcusable.

Personally, I think Furman had surprised everyone in 2013 with a spunky team buoyed by an unsustainably high turnover margin and Dakota Dozier single handedly making the offense look much better than it was (and it wasn't that good). That bought Bruce Fowler and Co. several more years than they should have otherwise gotten.

That game, in my opinion, was the lowest point of Furman football. A 3 win season with losses to Presbyterian, South Carolina State, the Citadel, and VMI. That 45-0 game was homecoming against a good, but not THAT good Samford team. Just an embarrassing season.

If I were a Samford fan, I wouldn't be banking on a day like that. This coaching staff isn't the last coaching staff.

I'd argue that the PC loss in front of 1000 people in Clinnon, after the lightening delay, was the low point. That PC team was awful.

[Smitty]

That Samford/Furman game was one of several during this recent "dark period" in the program's history that was both unexplainable and inexcusable.

Speaking of dark periods, what would it take to remove the Kent Briggs quote? It was nearly 12 years ago when that happened. I still get horrible flash backs of WCU football during that time...

[SU DOG]

Wasn't it Furman's homecoming when this happened in 2014?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28341&stc=1

A thing of beauty is a joy FOREVER.

- - - Updated - - -


Wasn't it Furman's homecoming when this happened in 2014?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28341&stc=1

A thing of beauty is a joy FOREVER.

[PaladinFan]

Speaking of dark periods, what would it take to remove the Kent Briggs quote? It was nearly 12 years ago when that happened. I still get horrible flash backs of WCU football during that time...

You know, I have tried removing it before and didn't have the brain power to figure out how.

I think that was after the Jerome Felton 6 touchdown effort. Long day for the Cats defense.

[PaladinFan]

Mission accomplished.

[SU DOG]

Before this thread gets moved into the Smack Talk Forum, maybe a few facts need to be discussed. The SU/FU game this year is a tie-breaker game. The overall series is tied and the SoCon series is also tied.
As for the game itself, I would gladly take a 1 point win. I see this Furman team as being a legit contender for the conference crown, and I see my Bulldogs in that same light also. The past has produced a few one-sided affairs, but normally this game is a slobber-knocker down to the wire contest. Should be no different this year.

[FUBeAR]

Before this thread gets moved into the Smack Talk Forum, maybe a few facts need to be discussed. The SU/FU game this year is a tie-breaker game. The overall series is tied and the SoCon series is also tied.
As for the game itself, I would gladly take a 1 point win. I see this Furman team as being a legit contender for the conference crown, and I see my Bulldogs in that same light also. The past has produced a few one-sided affairs, but normally this game is a slobber-knocker down to the wire contest. Should be no different this year.

Here’s how Mr. Massey sees the slobber being knocked...




https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_samford.gif
https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_furman.gif



Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=300937)
Furman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2800&s=300937)


Most Likely
28
31


Win Probability
45%
55%



...smart guy, that Massey fella is.

[Reign of Terrier]

Here’s how Mr. Massey sees the slobber being knocked...




https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_samford.gif
https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_furman.gif



Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=300937)
Furman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2800&s=300937)


Most Likely
28
31


Win Probability
45%
55%



...smart guy, that Massey fella is.

You do realize that 55-45 is only barely better than a coin flip?

[PaladinFan]

It's a ways off, but I watched the two teams play in Birmingham last year. A few thoughts:

1. Both teams had exactly 411 yards against the other last season. Furman was pretty balanced (229 passing, 201 rushing) while Samford probably had one of their better rushing games (141 yards). Furman held Hodges slightly under his average passing day, but also sacked him twice and picked him off. So they had a respectable day in that regard. Hodges/McKnight completed a few passes on 3rd/4th down that were back breakers late in the game - good players making plays.

2. I'm still pretty convinced that Furman scored a touchdown that the refs called just short of the goal line. Camera angles aren't great, but even then it's hard to imagine Wilcox didn't get in the endzone. That's life. You ideally don't want to be in a position where the refs have that sort of impact.

3. By pretty much any measure, the teams were equals. If you negate Samford's missed xpt and give Furman their touchdown, it would have been 27-27 at the end of regulation with both teams having equal output on offense. Hard to get much more level than that.

4. Going into 2018, I think Samford loses a lot of talent on defense and Furman has to replace some key cogs on their offense. Furman may get a bump playing the game in Greenville. The Paladins had a respectable effort last year against Samford's offense and returns 9/11 starters, adds a Clemson transfer at CB, and returns the entire two deep defensive line.

I expect a really good game. I'm bullish on Furman's defensive backfield this season and am really looking forward to seeing them line up against the Samford WR group.

[FUBeAR]

You do realize that 55-45 is only barely better than a coin flip?
Let’s see...if FU has a 55% chance of winning & SU has a 45% chance of winning, then FU has a 22% better chance of winning than SU does.

Assuming, instead, a ‘fair’ coin was flipped to determine the outcome, each Team would (theoretically) have a 50% chance of winning and the difference in those %’s is 0.

22 > 0

All good.

[PaladinFan]

You do realize that 55-45 is only barely better than a coin flip?

As noted, the teams were basically even last year in Birmingham. It's not shocking that Furman would be slightly favored in Greenville.

[SU DOG]

Here’s how Mr. Massey sees the slobber being knocked...




https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_samford.gif
https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_furman.gif



Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=300937)
Furman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2800&s=300937)


Most Likely
28
31


Win Probability
45%
55%



...smart guy, that Massey fella is.

Smart enough that he has Samford a few notches ABOVE Furman in his rankings. xnodx

[PaladinFan]

Smart enough that he has Samford a few notches ABOVE Furman in his rankings. xnodx

I was kind of surprised, but the computers have Samford has big underdogs against Kennesaw State.

[FUBeAR]

Let’s look at something important to the SoCon and a little more pressing...

...The Citadel @ Wofford on 9/1.

Mr. Massey sez...




Citadel
Wofford


Most Likely
17
27


Win Probability
24%
76%



...sound reasonable?

[FUBeAR]

I was kind of surprised, but the computers have Samford has big underdogs against Kennesaw State.
Not that big within Mr. Massey’s vacuum tubes...




Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=300937)
Kennesaw (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3766&s=300937)


Most Likely
21
24


Win Probability
40%
60%



Samford MUST win that game!

Mercer is at VMI & Woffy is at Gardner-Webb. I imagine Mercer can spare a few Players who would prefer a quick trip up to ATL vs. a LONG bus trip to LexVegas. And Woffy better not need all of their Players to rout a Big South bottom-feeder!

What Bears y’all want for that game? I’ll see what I can do.

Surely, Miles Brown, et al would rather be anywhere besides Boiling Springs, NC that day. Can you boyz in SparkleCity hook Sammy up?

[Reign of Terrier]

Let’s see...if FU has a 55% chance of winning & SU has a 45% chance of winning, then FU has a 22% better chance of winning than SU does.

Assuming, instead, a ‘fair’ coin was flipped to determine the outcome, each Team would (theoretically) have a 50% chance of winning and the difference in those %’s is 0.

22 > 0

All good.

I have no dog in this fight, but this is literally not how statistics works. When quantifying a probability split between two outcomes, you don't compare the difference between because by definition they'll either be equal or one will be better than the other.

Put another way, with this logic, if I give Wofford a 90% chance of beating the Citadel (I don't FWIW), that doesn't mean that Wofford has a 800% chance of winning compared to the Citadel (or whatever). By definition, the probability can only be as little as 0 or as great as 1, while 800%....is not that. The actual difference in probability is 80%.

I know you're a homer and very good at masking it, but this is transparently bad. You're slipping!

[Reign of Terrier]

Let’s look at something important to the SoCon and a little more pressing...

...The Citadel @ Wofford on 9/1.

Mr. Massey sez...




Citadel
Wofford


Most Likely
17
27


Win Probability
24%
76%



...sound reasonable?

I personally think FCS stats are systemically flawed given less information/consistent competition relative to FBS (and it's especially bad in the early season), so I can't really comment.

[FUBeAR]

statistics...probability split...two outcomes...compare the difference...by definition...equal...logic...By definition...probability...little as 0...as great as 1...not that...actual difference...probability...transparently


You do realize that 55-45 is only barely better than a coin flip?







https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_samford.gif
https://www.masseyratings.com/img/col_furman.gif



Samford (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=6987&s=300937)
Furman (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2800&s=300937)


Most Likely
28
31


Win Probability
45%
55%





Look, you know I appreciate some good ol’ mumbo jumbo as much as the next PalaBear, but your talk of Root-Mean-Squre-Error, Regression to the Mean, Poisson Distributions, and such makes my teeth hurt. Let’s keep the math real simple...

1) Does the table above say that Furman has a 55% probability of winning the game? Answer = YES
2) Does the table above say that Samford has a 45% probability of winning the game? Answer = YES
3) Is 55 greater than 45? Answer = YES
4) As a percentage, how much greater is 55 than 45? Answer (this one’s tricky) = (55-45)/45 = .2222 (repeating), which can be rounded to .22 & expressed as a % by multiplying by 100. So, .22 x 100 = 22%
5) Thus, Furman, mathematically, has a 22% greater probability of winning the game (per Massey’s Matchup Tool) than Samford does.
6) Is it, theoretically, true that if a coin were flipped to project the winner of this game, with Heads representing Furman & Tails representing Samford, the probability of each Team ‘winning’ would be 50%? Answer = YES
7) Is the difference of 50 minus 50 equal to 0? Answer = YES
8) If the probability difference equals 0, then would the percentage difference equal 0%? Answer = YES
9) Is 22% greater than 0%? Answer = Yes
10a) Is 22% more than “only barely better than” 0%? Answer = This answer is somewhat subjective, but I think we can bring this back to Football and derive a reasonable answer. (See 10b)
10b) Would you say that having 22 Starters returning is “only barely better than” having 0 Starters returning OR would you say having 22 Starters returning is “a whole PoopLoad better than” having 0? And.....I think we have our answer!

[PaladinFan]

Furman reports Sunday http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180802l42dvm

Interesting tidbit: Furman is 11 seniors, 18 juniors, 28 sophomores, and 43 freshmen. Still a really young team.

[FUBeAR]

Furman reports Sunday http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180802l42dvm

Interesting tidbit: Furman is 11 seniors, 18 juniors, 28 sophomores, and 43 freshmen. Still a really young team.I’m not exactly sure why, but these days all Rosters seem ‘young.’ As FU totals 100 Players, even I (without YT’s assistance) can calculate the %’s...

REVISED - Added “Exp Avg” row: ((SR x 3) + (JR x 2) + (SO x 1) + (FR x 0)) / Total # of Players

AND

also revised CIT’s Roster numbers



Class
FU#
FU%
MU#
MU%
SU#
SU%
WoCo#
WoCo%
WCU#
WCU%
UTC#
UTC%
CIT#
CIT%
ETSU#
ETSU%
VMI#
VMI%


FR
43
43
54
49
60
46
40
42
45
44
35
40
53
49
40
35
36
39


SO
28
28
24
22
31
24
21
22
24
23
19
22
26
24
32
28
31
34


JR
18
18
15
14
23
18
18
19
17
17
19
22
18
17
35
30
16
18


SR
11
11
16
15
15
12
16
17
16
16
14
16
11
10
8
7
8
9


Exp Avg
0.97

0.93

0.94

1.10

1.04

1.14

0.88

1.09

0.96



Total
100
100
109
100
129
100
95
100
102
100
87
100
108
100
115
100
91
100



Looking at Mercer, which we think of, this year, as an ‘experienced Team,’ the %’s in the Upper 2 classes are about the same as FU. I think the other SoCon Teams, as a whole, are more similar than different. Chatt Numbers are a little screwy because they haven’t really added their signing classes to the roster yet. I just used the signing day roster & counted them all as FR, which I know is wrong...but when it comes down to it...roster-wise, I don’t see a lot of difference in ‘age.’

One interesting number I did see there is that Samford has 129 players on their roster. Now, I know schollies can be split in FCS...but if you think about...with the max being 63 Full schollies, over 1/2 of the kids on Samford’s roster are Walk-on’s (sorta). That’s gotta be an interesting locker room dynamic.

Any other thoughts?

[Reign of Terrier]

Look, you know I appreciate some good ol’ mumbo jumbo as much as the next PalaBear, but your talk of Root-Mean-Squre-Error, Regression to the Mean, Poisson Distributions, and such makes my teeth hurt. Let’s keep the math real simple...

1) Does the table above say that Furman has a 55% probability of winning the game? Answer = YES
2) Does the table above say that Samford has a 45% probability of winning the game? Answer = YES
3) Is 55 greater than 45? Answer = YES
4) As a percentage, how much greater is 55 than 45? Answer (this one’s tricky) = (55-45)/45 = .2222 (repeating), which can be rounded to .22 & expressed as a % by multiplying by 100. So, .22 x 100 = 22%
5) Thus, Furman, mathematically, has a 22% greater probability of winning the game (per Massey’s Matchup Tool) than Samford does.
6) Is it, theoretically, true that if a coin were flipped to project the winner of this game, with Heads representing Furman & Tails representing Samford, the probability of each Team ‘winning’ would be 50%? Answer = YES
7) Is the difference of 50 minus 50 equal to 0? Answer = YES
8) If the probability difference equals 0, then would the percentage difference equal 0%? Answer = YES
9) Is 22% greater than 0%? Answer = Yes
10a) Is 22% more than “only barely better than” 0%? Answer = This answer is somewhat subjective, but I think we can bring this back to Football and derive a reasonable answer. (See 10b)
10b) Would you say that having 22 Starters returning is “only barely better than” having 0 Starters returning OR would you say having 22 Starters returning is “a whole PoopLoad better than” having 0? And.....I think we have our answer!


Again, by your logic:

90-10=80/10=8

So someone with 90% chance of something happening has 800% chance of not happening. That's not how stats work. It's the wrong baseline. How much more of a chance something has relative to something else doesn't say anything compared to it's actual baseline of occurring.

Furman has a 10% chance of winning the game more than Samford. 10.

[FUBeAR]

logic...90-10=80/10=8...90% chance...800% chance of not...wrong baseline...more of a chance...relative to something...compared...actual baseline of occurring.

So, you found no errors in my simple math. Great! Then we agree that 55 is 22% greater than 45. And that 22 is greater than 0.

Besides all that, 10 Starters returning is still a whole PoopLoad more than 0. It sure ain’t “only barely more than.” I know that without any cipherin’!

[FUBeAR]

Looking over Mercer’s updated roster and picked up a couple of interesting tidbits. 2 additional FBS Transfers...if you count Idaho as FBS.

DEFENSIVE LINE - SAM Veltman (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6593) - FRESHMAN
https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6593
https://govandals.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4420

I’m assuming he will be immediately eligible, but I don’t really know how Idaho’s transition affects that. Looks like the Bears are going to play him at DE and he was TE for the Vandals (most likely a redshirt as a FR in 2017). Looks like he also had an offer from Miami. Kind of played what appears to be a lower level of HS ball in FL; not sure how much he will contribute in 2018, but 6-4/250 (estimated) depth is always welcome at DE in an FCS program.

UPDATE: Veltman is now listed as a TE on Mercer's online roster...one of 9. To be factual though, while Mercer groups all of these 9 guys into 1 position (TE), some of them are really more like Fullbacks - at least they have been in the past. With a new OC this year, that may change, but when I see a 5-10/234 FR, who played mostly DL in HS, listed as a "TE," then I think we're more likely than not to see those guys deployed as they have been in the past.

OFFENSIVE LINE - CALEB ETHERIDGE (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6577) - FRESHMAN
https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6577
http://wkusports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1040

Also probably Redshirted with the Hilltoppers in 2017, but at 6-2/300 and with offers from WKU, Marshall, Kent State, MTSU, Mercer (when he was in HS), Samford, Elon, Charleston Southern, The Citadel, and Tennessee Tech, he may be able to provide immediate help in one of the position groups where Mercer graduated 2 Starters.

[Milktruck74]

I’m not exactly sure why, but these days all Rosters seem ‘young.’ As FU totals 100 Players, even I (without YT’s assistance) can calculate the %’s...



Class
FU#
FU%
MU#
MU%
SU#
SU%
WoCo#
WoCo%
WCU#
WCU%
UTC#
UTC%
CIT#
CIT%
ETSU#
ETSU%
VMI#
VMI%


FR
43
43
54
49
60
46
40
42
45
44
35
40
40
45
40
35
36
39


SO
28
28
24
22
31
24
21
22
24
23
19
22
24
27
32
28
31
34


JR
18
18
15
14
23
18
18
19
17
17
19
22
18
20
35
30
16
18


SR
11
11
16
15
15
12
16
17
16
16
14
16
7
8
8
7
8
9


Total
100
100
109
100
129
100
95
100
102
100
87
100
89
100
115
100
91
100



Looking at Mercer, which we think of, this year, as an ‘experienced Team,’ the %’s in the Upper 2 classes are about the same as FU. I think the other SoCon Teams, as a whole, are more similar than different. Chatt & Cit’s Numbers are a little screwy because they haven’t really added their signing classes to their rosters yet. I just used the signing day roster & counted them all as FR, which I know is wrong...but when it comes down to it...roster-wise, I don’t see a lot of difference in ‘age.’

One interesting number I did see there is that Samford has 129 players on their roster. Now, I know schollies can be split in FCS...but if you think about...with the max being 63 Full schollies, over 1/2 of the kids on Samford’s roster are Walk-on’s (sorta). That’s gotta be an interesting locker room dynamic.

Any other thoughts?


We often look at grade level to determine experience, but a sophmore that played the majority of the snaps in 10 games last season is much more experienced than a senior that has only seen the field on special teams their entire career.

[Milktruck74]

I'm willing to put it out there.....Samford will be 6-2 in the SoCon, at best. They may win, but it will not be an outright SoCon Championship. Shared with one or two others....if they are even able to share a part. Now, I'm not willing to say which other two teams, except it won't be VMI.

[FUBeAR]

I never thought El Cid would become the next Youngstown / SHSU / Jacksonville St / etc.

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-football-louisville-linebacker-joins-bulldogs-and-questions-as-practice/article_64cfcd2a-9739-11e8-987c-63db91737afb.html

...seems to be heading that way with this flurry of last minute additions of Graduate Transfer “Done & One’s” to the bellhop roster.

[PaladinFan]

I'm willing to put it out there.....Samford will be 6-2 in the SoCon, at best. They may win, but it will not be an outright SoCon Championship. Shared with one or two others....if they are even able to share a part. Now, I'm not willing to say which other two teams, except it won't be VMI.

I think the Week 3 game against Mercer will tell us a lot.

[FUBeAR]

We often look at grade level to determine experience, but a sophmore that played the majority of the snaps in 10 games last season is much more experienced than a senior that has only seen the field on special teams their entire career.
You are absolutely right and it would be great if we had ready-access to Game Snaps/Player data to get a good measure of true experience level of an overall roster...but I don't think we have that....So....I did want to do some more work on this and came up with some interesting info (I think).

I looked at the rosters of each Team and applied the following experience point values to each player as listed in the roster
FR = 0.0
R-FR = 0.5
SO = 1.0
R-SO = 1.5
JR = 2.0
R-JR = 2.5
SR = 3.0
GR = 3.0 (could probably take the time to see if their GR year will be their 4th or 5th, but I didn't want to do that; so I didn't)
R-SR = 3.5

...and here are the average overall roster experience levels for each Team...



Rank
Team
Avg Exp


1
ETSU
1.35


2
WCU
1.29


3
Furman
1.20


4
Mercer
1.20


5
VMI
1.19


6
Wofford
1.18


7
Chatt
1.18


8
Citadel
0.97


9
Samford
0.95



A few caveats and comments...

* Chatt has still not added (some) of their incoming class to their online roster, but I pieced it together as best I could
* CIT has now added their new 'kids' and their ever-burgeoning number of GR Transfers, so their data is better than in my previous post
* Some Teams (Wofford, I think and a few others) only show Redshirts for their R-FR, so those Teams experience number is likely a bit understated
* Samford doesn't list any "Redshirts" and, as previously mentioned, they have about 9000 FR Walk-ons on their roster, so I believe the calculation derived is significantly understated from their actual Experience Level.
* I think the number here for WCU is interesting. They lost almost all of the Starting D and their best RB and Top 2 WR's and lost the most Starters in the SoCon per the "Keeper" data that was previously posted to AGS, but they are ranked highly in experience. I think this means they have a lot of guys who have been around for a long time, but, perhaps, not played a whole lot...yet. See Milktruck's comment.
* The newest program in the SoCon. ETSU, has the most (roster) experience. I think that's interesting.

To compile this, I now have the capability to relatively quickly look at experience level, size, state of 'origin,' # of Transfers, etc. by Team or Position Group, etc. pretty quickly and slice/dice it up as desired, so let me know if you have any 'parsing' that you would like to see. Except for you, YT - I refuse to build a 2-tailed t test for anyone! If you want to know this:

1. Hypotheses: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img239.gif versus http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img240.gif
2. Test Statistic: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img241.gif
3. P-value: Presuming H0 is true, the likelihood of chance variation yielding a t-statistic more extreme than -2.01 on either side of 0 (since H1 direction is both high and low) is .11.

...for Wofford's O-Line, you're going to have to cipher that out yourself!

[Milktruck74]

You are absolutely right and it would be great if we had ready-access to Game Snaps/Player data to get a good measure of true experience level of an overall roster...but I don't think we have that....So....I did want to do some more work on this and came up with some interesting info (I think).

I looked at the rosters of each Team and applied the following experience point values to each player as listed in the roster
FR = 0.0
R-FR = 0.5
SO = 1.0
R-SO = 1.5
JR = 2.0
R-JR = 2.5
SR = 3.0
GR = 3.0 (could probably take the time to see if their GR year will be their 4th or 5th, but I didn't want to do that. so I didn't)
R-SR = 3.5

...and here are the average overall roster experience levels for each Team...



Rank
Team
Avg Exp


1
ETSU
1.35


2
WCU
1.29


3
Furman
1.20


4
Mercer
1.20


5
VMI
1.19


6
Wofford
1.18


7
Chatt
1.18


8
Citadel
0.97


9
Samford
0.95



A few caveats and comments...

* Chatt has still not added (some) of their incoming class to their online roster, but I pieced it together as best I could
* CIT has now added their new 'kids' and their ever-burgeoning number of GR Transfers, so their data is better than in my previous post
* Some Teams (Wofford, I think and a few others) only show Redshirts for their R-FR, so those Teams experience number is likely a bit understated
* Samford doesn't list any "Redshirts" and, as previously mentioned, they have about 9000 FR Walk-ons on their roster, so I believe the number derives is significant understated from their actual Experience Level.
* I think the number here for WCU is interesting. They lost almost all of the Starting D and their best RB and Top 2 WR's, but they are ranked highly in experience. I think this means they have a lot of guys who have been around for a long time, but, perhaps, not played a whole lot...yet. See Milktruck's comment.
* The newest program in the SoCon. ETSU, has the most (roster) experience. I think that's interesting.

To compile this, I now have the capability to relatively quickly look at experience level, size, state of 'origin,' # of Transfers, etc. by Team pretty quickly and slice/dice it up as desired, so let me know if you have any 'parsing' that you would like to see. Except for you, YT - I refuse to build a 2-tailed t test for anyone! If you want to know this:

1. Hypotheses: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img239.gif versus http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img240.gif
2. Test Statistic: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img241.gif
3. P-value: Presuming H0 is true, the likelihood of chance variation yielding a t-statistic more extreme than -2.01 on either side of 0 (since H1 direction is both high and low) is .11.

...for Wofford's O-Line, you're going to have to cipher that out yourself!

And to throw in another twist....I would weight Experience at certain positions (QB, Center, MLB) much greater than others (DB, WR, G, DL)....

[Reign of Terrier]

You are absolutely right and it would be great if we had ready-access to Game Snaps/Player data to get a good measure of true experience level of an overall roster...but I don't think we have that....So....I did want to do some more work on this and came up with some interesting info (I think).

I looked at the rosters of each Team and applied the following experience point values to each player as listed in the roster
FR = 0.0
R-FR = 0.5
SO = 1.0
R-SO = 1.5
JR = 2.0
R-JR = 2.5
SR = 3.0
GR = 3.0 (could probably take the time to see if their GR year will be their 4th or 5th, but I didn't want to do that; so I didn't)
R-SR = 3.5

...and here are the average overall roster experience levels for each Team...



Rank
Team
Avg Exp


1
ETSU
1.35


2
WCU
1.29


3
Furman
1.20


4
Mercer
1.20


5
VMI
1.19


6
Wofford
1.18


7
Chatt
1.18


8
Citadel
0.97


9
Samford
0.95



A few caveats and comments...

* Chatt has still not added (some) of their incoming class to their online roster, but I pieced it together as best I could
* CIT has now added their new 'kids' and their ever-burgeoning number of GR Transfers, so their data is better than in my previous post
* Some Teams (Wofford, I think and a few others) only show Redshirts for their R-FR, so those Teams experience number is likely a bit understated
* Samford doesn't list any "Redshirts" and, as previously mentioned, they have about 9000 FR Walk-ons on their roster, so I believe the calculation derived is significantly understated from their actual Experience Level.
* I think the number here for WCU is interesting. They lost almost all of the Starting D and their best RB and Top 2 WR's and lost the most Starters in the SoCon per the "Keeper" data that was previously posted to AGS, but they are ranked highly in experience. I think this means they have a lot of guys who have been around for a long time, but, perhaps, not played a whole lot...yet. See Milktruck's comment.
* The newest program in the SoCon. ETSU, has the most (roster) experience. I think that's interesting.

To compile this, I now have the capability to relatively quickly look at experience level, size, state of 'origin,' # of Transfers, etc. by Team or Position Group, etc. pretty quickly and slice/dice it up as desired, so let me know if you have any 'parsing' that you would like to see. Except for you, YT - I refuse to build a 2-tailed t test for anyone! If you want to know this:

1. Hypotheses: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img239.gif versus http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img240.gif
2. Test Statistic: http://www.stat.wmich.edu/s216/book/img241.gif
3. P-value: Presuming H0 is true, the likelihood of chance variation yielding a t-statistic more extreme than -2.01 on either side of 0 (since H1 direction is both high and low) is .11.

...for Wofford's O-Line, you're going to have to cipher that out yourself!

this is good stuff, likely internally valid, but I'm skeptical that this information will give us generalized information about team output. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study looking for correlation between class distribution and overall success in college football.

Obviously a team of just freshmen is probably not going to do as well as other, more experienced teams, but we've seen young teams and teams that have lost great players to graduation come back and repeat time and again. That's why I'm skeptical.

[PaladinFan]

And to throw in another twist....I would weight Experience at certain positions (QB, Center, MLB) much greater than others (DB, WR, G, DL)....

Before last season I commented that Furman did not have a lot of veteran experience, but the experienced players they did have, were at positions (QB, C, NG, S, ILB) you wanted experienced players.

The ILB position became a bit of a wash as all of the senior players went out with injury and the Paladins started two true freshmen most of the season.

Of course, with entirely new systems on both sides of the ball and a mostly entirely new coaching staff, "veteran presence" seemed less critical for Furman. The senior QB had to learn a new offense just like the freshman QB did.

[FUBeAR]

I have been very impressed with the steady progress Mercer has made with their Run Defense. Last year they trailed only Wofford’s far, far, far, far, far more renowned Defensive Front in the average yardage yielded per rush in SoCon games (3.2 for Woffy vs. 3.5 for Mercer). Coaches Kolakowski (DC & OLB’s), Coach Cain (ILB’s), and Coach Baker (DL) have done a really nice nice job with developing their Players. Mercer rolls 9 guys constantly on the DL and only graduated 2 of those 9 from last season, so I expect them to be strong against the run again in 2018. Of course, with the ‘rolling 9’ philosophy, they’ll probably never have the stats to garner the individual accolades awarded to some of their SoCon peers, but if they keep improving as a unit; maybe they’ll have some Team ‘hardware’ instead.

In this 3rd episode of “Mercer Football Chalk Talk,” Coach Baker & Kristin Banks open the kimono & give us a little peek at explosive get-off & 2 other Mercer “MUST’s” for D-Line play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKamgKMncA

[Bisonoline]

I never thought El Cid would become the next Youngstown / SHSU / Jacksonville St / etc.

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-football-louisville-linebacker-joins-bulldogs-and-questions-as-practice/article_64cfcd2a-9739-11e8-987c-63db91737afb.html

...seems to be heading that way with this flurry of last minute additions of Graduate Transfer “Done & One’s” to the bellhop roster.

So how does the Citadel treat a transfer considering he is an upper classman?

[PaladinFan]

I have been very impressed with the steady progress Mercer has made with their Run Defense. Last year they trailed only Wofford’s far, far, far, far, far more renowned Defensive Front in the average yardage yielded per rush in SoCon games (3.2 for Woffy vs. 3.5 for Mercer). Coaches Kolakowski (DC & OLB’s), Coach Cain (ILB’s), and Coach Baker (DL) have done a really nice nice job with developing their Players. Mercer rolls 9 guys constantly on the DL and only graduated 2 of those 9 from last season, so I expect them to be strong against the run again in 2018. Of course, with the ‘rolling 9’ philosophy, they’ll probably never have the stats to garner the individual accolades awarded to some of their SoCon peers, but if they keep improving as a unit; maybe they’ll have some Team ‘hardware’ instead.

In this 3rd episode of “Mercer Football Chalk Talk,” Coach Baker & Kristin Banks open the kimono & give us a little peek at explosive get-off & 2 other Mercer “MUST’s” for D-Line play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKamgKMncA

Had not looked at it before, but this raises some interesting points about Furman as well.

Wofford had a stout defense, but the Terriers and the Citadel will generally always lead the SoCon in rush defense for the simple fact that they don't play themselves.

Interesting, Furman finished 4th in the league in rush defense, and only .3 yards per rush (149.3) behind Mercer (149.1). The Paladins surrendered 3.9 ypc while the Bears 3.8.

In the same vein, the jump for the Paladin defense was huge. In 2016, Furman surrendered 192 yards a game on the ground and 4.6 yards per carry. In one season, the defense lopped off about 50 yards per game on and a full yard per carry.

[kdinva]

So how does the Citadel treat a transfer considering he is an upper classman?

He's another "Grad transfer"........he'll be a civilian, take 8 hours of "needed" classes.......and come Dec. 11th will say: "see ya"......

[Bisonoline]

He's another "Grad transfer"........he'll be a civilian, take 8 hours of "needed" classes.......and come Dec. 11th will say: "see ya"......

So hes not treated like a knob.

[FUBeAR]

So how does the Citadel treat a transfer considering he is an upper classman?

Like a baby treats a diaper


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

So....El Cid or The Post & Courier (not sure which) published a Pre-Season 2-Deep for The Citadel. Using FUBeAR's Handy-Dandy Roster Analyzer, we can see...

* The "Experience Level" of the overall 2-Deep is 1.41, which doesn't mean a lot by itself...but compared to other teams, once we have their 2-Deep's, it just might...

* The Experience Level of their Starting O & D is 1.72 - 1.83 on O & 1.59 on D
* 2 Deep O's Experience Level is 1.4 & 2 Deep D's is 1.34
* Starting O-Line averages 6-2/276 and has a 1.6 Experience Level
* Starting D-Line averages 6-2/260 and has a 2.0 Experience Level
* Starting Front 7 on D average 6-1/230 and have a 1.79 Experience Level
* Showing 3 Transfers in their 2-Deep (really have 1 as an OR), but the newbie from Louisville is not listed on the 2-Deep yet...but I think he'll find his way there
* If this 2 Deep 'holds,' 14 of the Bulldogs on this 2 Deep will be taking their 1st college game rep on 9/1 @ Wofford
* Last year at this time, 7 of the Knobs on this 2 Deep were getting ready for their Sr. Year of High School Football
* Interestingly, there are also only 7 Sr's on the 2-Deep that have been at The Citadel since the beginning of their College Football careers.
* 18 on the 2 Deep are from SC and 17 are from GA. #BuildTheWall

So...in case anyone cares about this ish (other than FUBeAR), I have included below the data from the source document for the info above. I use Excel with Filters and the Subtotal formula to slice/dice...



#
Fname
Lname
O/D/S
POS1
POS2
DPTH
HT
WT
YR
EXP
HOMETOWN
ST
HIGH SCHOOL
PREVIOUS SCHOOL


53
Tyler
Davis
O
OL
C
1
73
279
SR
3.00
Murrells Inlet
SC
Waccamaw



54
Haden
Haas
O
OL
C
2
75
290
R-FR
0.50
Cuero
TX
Cuero



52
Jon Barrett
Lewis
O
OL
OG
1
74
295
SO
1.00
Lenoir
NC
Hibriten



62
Jonathan
Cole
O
OL
OG
1
73
290
SO
1.00
Fuquay-Varina
NC
Fuquay-Varina



64
Harry
Easler
O
OL
OG
2
74
285
JR
2.00
Kingstree
SC
Williamsburg Academy



65
Johnathan
Toole
O
OL
OG
2
73
287
FR
0.00
Spring
TX
Klein Collins



58
Denzel
Wright
O
OL
OT
2
73
250
SO
1.00
Lawrenceville
GA
Grayson



61
Mark
Weakland
O
OL
OT
2
74
260
SO
1.00
State College
PA
State College



63
Drew
McEntyre
O
OL
OT
1
75
265
JR
2.00
Calhoun
GA
Calhoun



67
Prince
Howard-Whitaker
O
OL
OT
1
75
250
SO
1.00
Columbia
SC
Spring Valley



10
Jordan
Black
O
QB

1
73
200
JR
2.00
Vidalia
GA
Vidalia



12
Ryan
McCarthy
O
QB

3
75
200
R-FR
0.50
Cumming
GA
Pinecrest Academy



16
Brandon
Rainey
O
QB

2
72
205
SO
1.00
Acworth
GA
Allatoona



2
Rod
Johnson
O
RB
A-B
1
71
198
JR
2.00
Ninety Six
SC
Ninety Six



18
Dante
Smith
O
RB
A-B
2
70
180
R-FR
0.50
North Charleston
SC
Porter-Gaud



26
Keyonte
Sessions
O
RB
A-B
2
68
190
SO
1.00
Myrtle Beach
SC
Myrtle Beach



29
Grant
Drakeford
O
RB
A-B
1
70
175
SR
3.00
Atlanta
GA
Riverwood



8
Lorenzo
Ward
O
RB
B-B
1
70
210
JR
2.00
Columbia
SC
Dreher



42
Brandon
Berry
O
RB
B-B
2
71
230
SO
1.00
Crawfordville
FL
Wakulla



44
Jordan
Thomas
O
TE

2
73
215
JR
2.00
Fairburn
GA
Our Lady of Mercy



89
Attorney
Gallman
O
TE

1
73
255
JR
2.00
Hiram
GA
Hiram



13
Cole
Owens
O
WR

2
71
175
R-FR
0.50
Irmo
SC
Chapin



21
Curt
Nixon
O
WR

1
72
180
JR
2.00
Folkston
GA
Charlton County



22
Raleigh
Webb
O
WR

1
74
205
SO
1.00
Acworth
GA
Allatoona



81
Dijon
Profit
O
WR

2
73
190
SO
1.00
Goose Creek
SC
Goose Creek



3
Joshua
Bowers
D
DB
CB
2
70
172
FR
0.00
New Port Richie
FL
East Lake



11
Phil
Barrett
D
DB
CB
1
72
170
SO
1.00
Columbia
SC
Irmo



20
Jay
Howard
D
DB
CB
1
73
180
R-FR
0.50
Lewisburg
TN
Marshall County



27
Jaylan
Adams
D
DB
CB
2
70
165
FR
0.00
Johnson City
TN
Science Hill



6
Lane
Botkin
D
DB

1
72
195
R-FR
0.50
Columbia
SC
A.C. Flora



24
Aron
Spann, III
D
DB

1
74
205
SR
3.00
Spartanburg
SC
Dorman



30
Cliff
Barrett
D
DB

2
72
190
GR
3.00
Columbia
SC
Irmo
Lenoir-Rhyne


33
Ronald
Peterkin
D
DB

3
72
185
GR
3.00
Stone Mountain
GA
Stephenson
Georgia State


37
Destin
Mack
D
DB

2
72
190
FR
0.00
Macon
GA
Tattnall Square



49
Marquise
Blount
D
DL
DE
2
75
223
FR
0.00
Charlotte
NC
Vance



92
Aaron
Brawley
D
DL
DE
1
74
215
SO
1.00
Loganville
GA
Grayson



88
Shawn
McCord
D
DL
DT
2
74
255
GR
3.00
Aberdeen
NJ
Red Bank Catholic
St. Francis


98
Joseph
Randolph, II
D
DL
DT
1
75
270
JR
2.00
Jefferson
GA
Jefferson



68
Ken
Allen
D
DL
NT
1
73
295
SR
3.00
Elberton
GA
Elbert County



96
Ja'lon
Williams
D
DL
NT
2
74
280
JR
2.00
Columbia
SC
Spring Valley



25
Sean-Thomas
Faulkner
D
LB
BAN
1
71
180
R-FR
0.50
Easley
SC
Easley



31
Von
Ramsey
D
LB
BAN
2
71
190
FR
0.00
Hodges
SC
Greenwood



38
Noah
Dawkins
D
LB
KAT
2
73
215
SR
3.00
Lyman
SC
Byrnes



55
Russell
Hubbs
D
LB
KAT
1
73
220
SR
3.00
Rock Hill
SC
Northwestern



4
Phil
Davis
D
LB

1
73
215
JR
2.00
Marietta
GA
Hillgrove



9
Willie
Eubanks, III
D
LB

1
74
215
SO
1.00
Augusta
GA
Laney



47
Jeremy
Samuels
D
LB

2
72
230
SO
1.00
Winter Garden
FL
West Orange



50
Caleb
Deveaux
D
LB

2
73
213
FR
0.00
Waxhaw
NC
Marvin Ridge




















48
48
48
48
48
30
48
73
221
48
1.39
48
48
48
3






Note1: I didn't include Specialists on here, but I do have them in the data

Note2: I didn't use the "OR's" (shown as "3's" in the DPTH column) in some of the data tabulated above.

[The Cats]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=-vl4tCGA178

[PaladinFan]

Paladins get rolling.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/furman/2018/08/05/what-big-difference-year-makes-furman-football/905366002/


“It took us a while to realize even what we were running as an offense,” running back Kealand Dirks said of preseason practices in 2017. “Now, we’ve changed up a little bit of stuff, but we have a better idea going into camp of what we have to do. Also, we had a great season last year, so now we’re just expected to do it even better than that. We’re working even harder because we know what we can do.”

[FUBeAR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=93&v=QsM9R1BDnDI

I saw/heard some talk that WCU might be better off playing their R-FR QB, Will Jones, http://www.catamountsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211734203&DB_OEM_ID=12100 , as QB and letting Tyrie Adams move to a Combo Slot/Wildcat QB role.

Listen to Coach Speir starting at 0:55 in this video. Is he 'foreshadowing' that we may see something like that from the Catamounts this year? I think Coach Russ Huesman at Chatt was going to revolutionize the game when he tried something similar with Jacob Huesman and Terrell Robinson in 2012. Hey, they finished 5-6...so, it wasn't all bad.

[PaladinFan]

Hey Wofford fans, what's up with the camo pattern on the uniforms?

https://twitter.com/WoffordTerriers/status/1025471135994077185

[PaladinFan]

So, Bear, who wins this matchup? The guy with better technique and hand positioning, or the guy that tackles his man to the ground?

https://twitter.com/CitadelFootball/status/1026447308270043136

[Reign of Terrier]

Hey Wofford fans, what's up with the camo pattern on the uniforms?

https://twitter.com/WoffordTerriers/status/1025471135994077185

Wofford is located in the middle of the redneck triangle (Newberry-->blacksburg-->Anderson-->Newberry)

[Bisonoline]

So, Bear, who wins this matchup? The guy with better technique and hand positioning, or the guy that tackles his man to the ground?

https://twitter.com/CitadelFootball/status/1026447308270043136

White jersey

[FUBeAR]

So, Bear, who wins this matchup? The guy with better technique and hand positioning, or the guy that tackles his man to the ground?

https://twitter.com/CitadelFootball/status/1026447308270043136As Bisonoline correctly assessed, this is ALL ABOUT 69! He beat 72 off the ball, got under his pads, and got some initial movement. He even ‘turned’ him a little, which I don’t, necessarily, like...but some folks do. 72, I guess, gets some ‘pride points’ for physical domination. The thing is though...the ballcarrier would have been 20 yards downfield while he was exerting his manly dominance.

I know it’s a drill, but I am a HUGE believer that every ‘little’ thing you do at practice should be directly related to ‘real football’ and if it’s not, don’t waste your time doing it. I thought it was interesting that all of his fellow bellhops (including some Coaches) cheered and congratulated 72 for his dominance exhibition. If El Cid’s D-Linemen (and Coaches) think getting beat off the ball, letting the O-Lineman get under your pads, getting moved off the LOS, and staying tied up by the O-Lineman...as long as you “dominate,” is winning Defense, then they will be taking L’s & getting 31, 56, and 61 hung on them again regularly this season...as they did in their final 3 games of 2017.

[PaladinFan]

Speaking of the Citadel's defensive linemen technique. There's this:

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1026460488861806592

By my count, #72 took about 5 seconds to drive the OL backwards. Dirks was already at the third level of the defense over the same period of time.

It is an early drill in practice, but I bet the Citadel would be tickled pink if their OL can move a DL off the spot and hold him four seconds before giving ground.

[FUBeAR]

So, Bear, who wins this matchup? The guy with better technique and hand positioning, or the guy that tackles his man to the ground?

https://twitter.com/CitadelFootball/status/1026447308270043136Similar videos are availble at this link. This Team, however, seems to recognize who actually ‘won’ each of the matchups, from a Football perspective.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmI9U73FNBJ/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1isu85kj08j07

BTW - I believe that’s Mercer’s recently ‘revealed’ OL Transfer from WKU in clip #3, wearing #61. Not bad.

[kdinva]

VMI report after 3 days....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E98e5zidh4Y

[FUBeAR]

VMI report after 3 days....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E98e5zidh4YThe OLman they featured, Brad Davis, looks great - body frame & technique-wise. Some of the other OLmen I see in there...um...not so much. Maybe they are Freshmen.

[FUBeAR]

Welp...it looks like The Citadel has decided to go to the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League...

https://twitter.com/sandlapperspike/status/1026603282289049606?s=21

...for their new Play-by-Play dude.

Why didn’t they just hire Mark Hauser, the solid guy that Wofford decided they didn’t want to pay to retain...after 26 years or so of loyal service?


BTW - Anyone know why my Tweet links won’t embed and ‘show’ on here anymore? They used to. Maybe, like Wofford, I’m doing it wrong. L’il help?

[FUBeAR]

Chatt released a Preseason 2-Deep also. Let's compare the Mocs numbers to the El Cid numbers I posted previously...



Metric
CIT
CHATT


2-Deep overall experience level
1.41
1.73


Starting O AND D experience level
1.72
2.22


Starting O experience level
1.83
2.25


Starting D experience level
1.59
2.18


2-Deep O experience level
1.40
1.90


2-Deep D experience level
1.34
1.55


Starting O-Line Average Size
6-2/276
6-5/307


Starting D-Line Average Size
6-2/260
6-3/300


Starting D Front 7 Average Size
6-1/230
6-2/261


# of Transfers in the 2-Deep
3
14


# of FR AND R-FR in 2-Deep
14
7


# of "True" FR in 2-Deep
7
4


# of 4/5 year Sr's/R-Sr's (non-transfers) in 2-Deep
7
7


# from "Home State" in 2-Deep
18
19


# from GA in 2-Deep
17
10



I find this all interesting. We can certainly conclude that CIT is younger than Chatt and significantly smaller up front. Chatt looks to have about 1/2 season advantage in experience level in most combinations. No surprise with CIT being smaller, really, but I didn't realize it was a 30/40 pound difference.

Also - 64% of Chatt's 2-Deep are Transfer Players. They have 30 overall, representing almost 30% of their roster...
Good - that means they have high-quality Talent? ...OR...
Bad - that means they aren't developing Players and probably don't have any Team cohesion and/or Player loyalty to the Program? ...OR...
Other?

Any thoughts?

BTW - Just comparing these 2 because they (or their local media) have released a 2-Deep.

[PaladinFan]

Every time I hear Hendrix interviewed, he always says something like “we were ok, but we could be better.” This quote is a lot of praise from him and encouraging for the Paladin faithful.

https://twitter.com/paladinfootball/status/1026641670962663424?s=21

[SU DOG]

I may be totally wrong, but I just don't see how teams can release a reliable 2-deep lineup this early, when they are either JUST in pads or not even there yet.

[FUBeAR]

Every time I hear Hendrix interviewed, he always says something like “we were ok, but we could be better.” This quote is a lot of praise from him and encouraging for the Paladin faithful.

https://twitter.com/paladinfootball/status/1026641670962663424?s=21Proud to see him rockin' the FFPA hat!

Never left a Team meeting and/or film session with Coach Sheridan where he hadn't said, "Men, we can get SO MUCH better," at least once, almost always accompanied by a hand motion demonstrating the process of moving up level by level.

I think Coach Hendrix might have borrowed that nugget for his repertoire. It's a good one. Never satisfied when you win or do well, but also know that being down after a loss or a bad practice is not a permanent condition.

[FUBeAR]

I may be totally wrong, but I just don't see how teams can release a reliable 2-deep lineup this early, when they are either JUST in pads or not even there yet.So...do you think those 2-Deep's from Chatt and Cit are more or less reliable and informed than the Polls, Rankings, and Preseason All-Star Teams that are being discussed in 'heavy rotation?'

[SU DOG]

I'm just curious as to how coaching staffs can evaluate all the new guys this early and come up with a solid 2-deep at this time. I did not say it couldn't be done, nor am I dissing Chatt or El Cit.

[SU DOG]

Hatcher's Victory Speech - The Origin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqSWmcdGgIo

[FUBeAR]

I'm just curious as to how coaching staffs can evaluate all the new guys this early and come up with a solid 2-deep at this time. I did not say it couldn't be done, nor am I dissing Chatt or El Cit.
My impression was that you were saying the published 2-Deeps really weren’t worth considering / discussing because of their lack of “reliability.” I guess I was wrong...as always.

[PaladinFan]

My impression was that you were saying they really weren’t worth considering / discussing because of their lack of “reliability.” I guess I was wrong...as always.

A lot of these teams are quite young. I mean, Furman returns like 19 of 22 off the two deep. I imagine I could probably sketch out a two deep for Furman's defense from my living room couch that would be pretty close to accurate.

[FUBeAR]

A lot of these teams are quite young. I mean, Furman returns like 19 of 22 off the two deep. I imagine I could probably sketch out a two deep for Furman's defense from my living room couch that would be pretty close to accurate.

You won’t!

JK - do it...you’re qualified. We’ll add a column. Any particular metric not listed that interests you? Average size of Sr. RB’s from NC, maybe? Or, how about QB’s on the 2-deep from GA with Mel Blount’s DNA? Gotta warn you, El Cid is gonna tie the Paladins in that metric.

Please post when couch sketching has been completed


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

IMO. that is a very good summation of the situation. I also like what you did there with the competition remark.:)
Welp...Mercer has updated heights/weights on their online roster. Earnest is listed at 228. He was listed at 240 on the Miami roster as a DE. I don’t think he’s cutting weight to be able to better take on 300+ pound OT’s...so I’m guessing Mercer is going to use him in more of a traditional LB role and he wants to be lighter for pass coverage responsibilities. So...I’m going to, tentatively, walk back my comments on how much of an Impact Player I think he will be this year. I think he can contribute well as a ‘traditonal’ LB, but not as impactfully as he could playing with his hand on the ground. We’ll see...

[SU DOG]

I've changed my thinking about the SoCon and the teams it will get into the Playoffs. I think 4 is very realistic. This conference is getting a talent level that is somewhat amazing. Part of course comes from FBS transfers, but the recruiting and developing of players, IMO, has reached new heights. There's a ton of 3*** players and kids that were offered by FBS that choose to play on SoCon teams instead. There is no Georgia Southern or App State team that can dominate others, but the number of teams that have improved dramatically is impressive. Samford is the favorite, and I wish we could(this year) be like JSU is in the OVC, but week in and week out there are BIG challenges awaiting, and you better bring your A-Game every time. I see 5-6 teams that look formidable and a couple of others that could surprise everybody.

Just my thoughts on how good this conference is. Others will disagree, but won't change my mind.

[PaladinFan]

I've changed my thinking about the SoCon and the teams it will get into the Playoffs. I think 4 is very realistic. This conference is getting a talent level that is somewhat amazing. Part of course comes from FBS transfers, but the recruiting and developing of players, IMO, has reached new heights. There's a ton of 3*** players and kids that were offered by FBS that choose to play on SoCon teams instead. There is no Georgia Southern or App State team that can dominate others, but the number of teams that have improved dramatically is impressive. Samford is the favorite, and I wish we could(this year) be like JSU is in the OVC, but week in and week out there are BIG challenges awaiting, and you better bring your A-Game every time. I see 5-6 teams that look formidable and a couple of others that could surprise everybody.

Just my thoughts on how good this conference is. Others will disagree, but won't change my mind.

The key, in my opinion, is the out of conference slate. The odds of the SoCon putting four teams in the post season improve significantly if Samford beats KSU, Furman beats Elon/Colgate, the Citadel beats Towson/CSU, UTC beats UT-M/Tenn Tech, Mercer beats Yale.

Those are big games that pit the SoCon head to head against some good teams from other FCS conferences. Come playoff selection time, those head to head matchups will be invaluable in getting a bubble team in.

[FUBeAR]

The key, in my opinion, is the out of conference slate. The odds of the SoCon putting four teams in the post season improve significantly if Samford beats KSU, Furman beats Elon/Colgate, the Citadel beats Towson/CSU, UTC beats UT-M/Tenn Tech, Mercer beats Yale.

Those are big games that pit the SoCon head to head against some good teams from other FCS conferences. Come playoff selection time, those head to head matchups will be invaluable in getting a bubble team in.Yeah, if Mercer beats Yale, CIT beats Towson, and Chatt beats UTM; maybe WCU will get into the Playoffs.

[PaladinFan]

Yeah, if Mercer beats Yale, CIT beats Towson, and Chatt beats UTM; maybe WCU will get into the Playoffs.

You can disagree with me on WCU. That's fine.

[FUBeAR]

You can disagree with me on WCU. That's fine.When it comes down to it, it seems to me our disagreement on the matter is primarily that you believe a single QB can carry a Team AND that Adams is, almost unquestionably, a guy who can can do that.

I, subjectively, don’t agree with that subjective premise and I think we have enough empirical evidence to seriously question IF he is that guy, if we are even willing to believe the premise.

I did find the irony of WCU, potentially, needing ‘help’ from those 3 Teams in order to make the Playoffs...if things play out as I believe you are projecting...rather humorous.

[PaladinFan]

When it comes down to it, it seems to me our disagreement on the matter is primarily that you believe a single QB can carry a Team AND that Adams is, almost unquestionably, a guy who can can do that.

I, subjectively, don’t agree with that subjective premise and I think we have enough empirical evidence to seriously question IF he is that guy, if we are even willing to believe the premise.

I did find the irony of WCU, potentially, needing ‘help’ from those 3 Teams in order to make the Playoffs...if things play out as I believe you are projecting...rather humorous.

WCU won 7 games last year. They return their best player at the most important position on the field. In my opinion, Adams is arguably the best all around offensive player in the league.

The Cat's schedule has 3 almost certain wins (GWU, Newberry, VMI). Furman, by comparison, who I think is a better team, has perhaps only one (VMI). If WCU needs 7 or 8 wins to make the post season, do I think they can get there? Sure. They hammered ETSU, the Citadel (on the road), and UTC (on the road) last season.

Is it that big of a leap to think that WCU, lead by a really good QB, can win their three "gimme" games, beat the three teams they blew out last season, and then steal one or two against Samford, Wofford, Furman, and Mercer? I don't think that is nearly as inconceivable as you seem to think it is.

[FUBeAR]

WCU won 7 games last year. They return their best player at the most important position on the field. In my opinion, Adams is arguably the best all around offensive player in the league.

The Cat's schedule has 3 almost certain wins. Furman, by comparison, who I think is a better team, has perhaps only one (VMI). If WCU needs 7 or 8 wins to make the post season, do I think they can get there? Sure. They hammered ETSU, the Citadel (on the road), and UTC (on the road) last season.

Is it that big of a leap to think that WCU, lead by a really good QB, can win their three "gimme" games, beat the three teams they blew out last season, and then steal one or two against Samford, Wofford, Furman, and Mercer? I don't think that is nearly as inconceivable as you seem to think it is.

Other than their QB, their Punter, a Safety, and some Veteran (and that’s all I’ll say about them) OLmen, what WCU did last year has little correlation with what to expect from them this year. I’ll ‘give’ them Newberry & VMI...OK...I’ll grudgingly give them Gardner-Webb too, even on the road...but only because I think the SoCon is 2x better than the Big South. Now, they need at least 4...maybe 5 SoCon wins to make the Playoffs....

They are AT consensus league favorite, Samford this year. Should I remind you how Sammy treated the last Team that upset them in the prior year when that Team went into Homewood? 42-7 over ETSU last year. No expected win for the unknown Cats over Sammy this year.

They are at Furman this year. Do WE think they are going to win that one? Of course WE don’t.

So they still need to win 4 or maybe ALL 5 of their remaining SoCon games. They have Chatt & CIT at home. Looking at what all 3 of these Teams do/don’t have returning, I’d say both of those are toss-ups. So, let’s say they split. Now they HAVE to win the remaining 3 to have any chance at the Playoffs.

Well, defending Champ Woffy goes into Cullowhee, where they won 31-19 on their last visit & WCU has to make their 1st trip to Johnson City. They lost the prior time they tangled with the Bucs in the state of TN though. Only due to Woffy’s uncertainty, I’d say both of those are toss-ups as well. Many would say that’s a Woffy gimme, but let’s say, somehow, WCU wins them both.

Now...it comes down to...can we ‘give’ them the game @ Mercer to even have a shot to get into the bracket? Pretty clearly...No...we can’t ‘give’ them the Mercer game @ Mercer. There is absolutely no logical reason why we would do that.

If we think the SoCon may get 4 Teams in the Playoff & 3 of those Teams are Sammy, Furman, and Woffy...there is a much more logical 4th choice than WCU...particularly if that Team beats Yale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Catamount87]

FUBeAR, you know I'm a diehard Catamount but I'm going to agree with you here. We have way too many question marks coming into 2018.

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR, you know I'm a diehard Catamount but I'm going to agree with you here. We have way too many question marks coming into 2018.Too many is relative, but they do have what they have. Seriously, WCU may win the SoCon this year, just as CIT did, to everyone’s surprise, in 2015. But to ignore those question marks and PROJECT them as a Playoff Team, really because of 1 very talented Player, who has proven he is ‘high-risk’ (is that better than “fragile?”), totally baffles me.

Now, if you have true ‘inside knowlege’ and/or have studied the Cats CURRENT Players in extreme depth, then such a projection might make some sense, but I bet most of the peeps picking them to be Playoff-bound would have been hard-pressed to name even 1 other Player on the Cats roster, outside of Adams, Tillman, and Berryman...prior to reading this thread.

[PaladinFan]

Too many is relative, but they do have what they have. Seriously, WCU may win the SoCon this year, just as CIT did, to everyone’s surprise, in 2015. But to ignore those question marks and PROJECT them as a Playoff Team, really because of 1 very talented Player, who has proven he is ‘high-risk’ (is that better than “fragile?”), totally baffles me.

Now, if you have true ‘inside knowlege’ and/or have studied the Cats CURRENT Players in extreme depth, then such a projection might make some sense, but I bet most of the peeps picking them to be Playoff-bound would have been hard-pressed to name even 1 other Player on the Cats roster, outside of Adams, Tillman, and Berryman...prior to reading this thread.

Oh for Pete's sake. This is a reach even by your standards.

You mean the kind of in depth research that tells us a FBS transfer is the next great SoCon defensive lineman but whoops he lost 20 pounds and is a linebacker? That sort of depth?

Its the preseason. Everything at this point is just speculation and guesses. Polling, preseason awards, conference champs, playoff selections, everything.

[ElCid]

They hammered ETSU, the Citadel (on the road), and UTC (on the road) last season.

Is it that big of a leap to think that WCU, lead by a really good QB, can win their three "gimme" games, beat the three teams they blew out last season, and then steal one or two against Samford, Wofford, Furman, and Mercer? I don't think that is nearly as inconceivable as you seem to think it is.

Hammered???? We outgained them and dominated in most stats. Our 5 turnovers didn't help. Especially the sloppy ball handling near the goal line. Our red zone percentage was really bad in this game, much worse than our yearly average. The game was lost with under two minutes to go in the 2nd when we fumbled 1 foot before crossing the goal after a 50 yard pass play. They also scored before half. That was emotionally devastating. Especially since it had happened against WCU before.

Yeah, we were sloppy and WCU played well. But it was far from getting hammered.

I think Adams is a very good QB and he gets better each year. But I think the loss of Newsome will be much more of a loss than Adams will be able to make up for.

[FUBeAR]

You mean the kind of in depth research that tells us a FBS transfer is the next great SoCon defensive lineman but whoops he lost 20 pounds and is a linebacker? That sort of depth?Yes

[FUBeAR]

Hammered???? We outgained them and dominated in most stats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLZubB22edw

[PaladinFan]

Hammered???? We outgained them and dominated in most stats. Our 5 turnovers didn't help. Especially the sloppy ball handling near the goal line. Our red zone percentage was really bad in this game, much worse than our yearly average. The game was lost with under two minutes to go in the 2nd when we fumbled 1 foot before crossing the goal after a 50 yard pass play. They also scored before half. That was emotionally devastating. Especially since it had happened against WCU before.

Yeah, we were sloppy and WCU played well. But it was far from getting hammered.

I think Adams is a very good QB and he gets better each year. But I think the loss of Newsome will be much more of a loss than Adams will be able to make up for.

We will all put Western Carolina firmly in the "maybe" category, then.

I like Samford and Furman to make the post season. I think VMI is going to bad. Everyone else is a strong maybe.

[FUBeAR]

We will all put Western Carolina firmly in the "maybe" category, then.

I like Samford and Furman to make the post season. I think VMI is going to bad. Everyone else is a strong maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtolv9kM1qk

[youcanbankit]

FUBeAR, you know I'm a diehard Catamount but I'm going to agree with you here. We have way too many question marks coming into 2018.

I like Western Carolina's chances if everyone stays eligible and injury free.

[ElCid]

We will all put Western Carolina firmly in the "maybe" category, then.

I like Samford and Furman to make the post season. I think VMI is going to bad. Everyone else is a strong maybe.

I like Mercers changes more than WCU. Or even ours more than WCU. But we are talking 5 shades of gray for the 3rd or 4th spot.

[FUBeAR]

I like Mercers changes more than WCU. Or even ours more than WCU. But we are talking 5 shades of gray for the 3rd or 4th spot.
A reasonable & logical position to take with the information readily available.

And 5, actually 5.5, shades of gray is also a fair assessment.

Based on known returning talent and various changes, I believe the most compelling arguments can be made for Wofford & Mercer to take the 3rd/4th Playoff spots with Wofford’s question marks being primarily due to Coaching change/Coaching & OLine and Mercer’s being lack of historical success, and the maturation of the QB position...with a slight concern at the WR slot (which I only mention as a nod to PaladinFan’s repeated ‘sky is falling’ commentary on that subject). Chatt would probably be the Team that I could argue best for next because of the perceived talent on the roster, but the question marks there are also LARGE. Then I think I’d toss up CIT & WCU next...But I would NOT rule out ETSU (they are the .5 shade of gray).

I’d like to form an argument for VMI...but I can’t...even though I’m pulling for them to go 6-2 in the SoCon.

[ElCid]

So....El Cid or The Post & Courier (not sure which) published a Pre-Season 2-Deep for The Citadel. Using FUBeAR's Handy-Dandy Roster Analyzer, we can see...

* The "Experience Level" of the overall 2-Deep is 1.41, which doesn't mean a lot by itself...but compared to other teams, once we have their 2-Deep's, it just might...

* The Experience Level of their Starting O & D is 1.72 - 1.83 on O & 1.59 on D
* 2 Deep O's Experience Level is 1.4 & 2 Deep D's is 1.34
* Starting O-Line averages 6-2/276 and has a 1.6 Experience Level
* Starting D-Line averages 6-2/260 and has a 2.0 Experience Level
* Starting Front 7 on D average 6-1/230 and have a 1.79 Experience Level
* Showing 3 Transfers in their 2-Deep (really have 1 as an OR), but the newbie from Louisville is not listed on the 2-Deep yet...but I think he'll find his way there
* If this 2 Deep 'holds,' 14 of the Bulldogs on this 2 Deep will be taking their 1st college game rep on 9/1 @ Wofford
* Last year at this time, 7 of the Knobs on this 2 Deep were getting ready for their Sr. Year of High School Football
* Interestingly, there are also only 7 Sr's on the 2-Deep that have been at The Citadel since the beginning of their College Football careers.
* 18 on the 2 Deep are from SC and 17 are from GA. #BuildTheWall

So...in case anyone cares about this ish (other than FUBeAR), I have included below the data from the source document for the info above. I use Excel with Filters and the Subtotal formula to slice/dice...



#
Fname
Lname
O/D/S
POS1
POS2
DPTH
HT
WT
YR
EXP
HOMETOWN
ST
HIGH SCHOOL
PREVIOUS SCHOOL


53
Tyler
Davis
O
OL
C
1
73
279
SR
3.00
Murrells Inlet
SC
Waccamaw



54
Haden
Haas
O
OL
C
2
75
290
R-FR
0.50
Cuero
TX
Cuero



52
Jon Barrett
Lewis
O
OL
OG
1
74
295
SO
1.00
Lenoir
NC
Hibriten



62
Jonathan
Cole
O
OL
OG
1
73
290
SO
1.00
Fuquay-Varina
NC
Fuquay-Varina



64
Harry
Easler
O
OL
OG
2
74
285
JR
2.00
Kingstree
SC
Williamsburg Academy



65
Johnathan
Toole
O
OL
OG
2
73
287
FR
0.00
Spring
TX
Klein Collins



58
Denzel
Wright
O
OL
OT
2
73
250
SO
1.00
Lawrenceville
GA
Grayson



61
Mark
Weakland
O
OL
OT
2
74
260
SO
1.00
State College
PA
State College



63
Drew
McEntyre
O
OL
OT
1
75
265
JR
2.00
Calhoun
GA
Calhoun



67
Prince
Howard-Whitaker
O
OL
OT
1
75
250
SO
1.00
Columbia
SC
Spring Valley



10
Jordan
Black
O
QB

1
73
200
JR
2.00
Vidalia
GA
Vidalia



12
Ryan
McCarthy
O
QB

3
75
200
R-FR
0.50
Cumming
GA
Pinecrest Academy



16
Brandon
Rainey
O
QB

2
72
205
SO
1.00
Acworth
GA
Allatoona



2
Rod
Johnson
O
RB
A-B
1
71
198
JR
2.00
Ninety Six
SC
Ninety Six



18
Dante
Smith
O
RB
A-B
2
70
180
R-FR
0.50
North Charleston
SC
Porter-Gaud



26
Keyonte
Sessions
O
RB
A-B
2
68
190
SO
1.00
Myrtle Beach
SC
Myrtle Beach



29
Grant
Drakeford
O
RB
A-B
1
70
175
SR
3.00
Atlanta
GA
Riverwood



8
Lorenzo
Ward
O
RB
B-B
1
70
210
JR
2.00
Columbia
SC
Dreher



42
Brandon
Berry
O
RB
B-B
2
71
230
SO
1.00
Crawfordville
FL
Wakulla



44
Jordan
Thomas
O
TE

2
73
215
JR
2.00
Fairburn
GA
Our Lady of Mercy



89
Attorney
Gallman
O
TE

1
73
255
JR
2.00
Hiram
GA
Hiram



13
Cole
Owens
O
WR

2
71
175
R-FR
0.50
Irmo
SC
Chapin



21
Curt
Nixon
O
WR

1
72
180
JR
2.00
Folkston
GA
Charlton County



22
Raleigh
Webb
O
WR

1
74
205
SO
1.00
Acworth
GA
Allatoona



81
Dijon
Profit
O
WR

2
73
190
SO
1.00
Goose Creek
SC
Goose Creek



3
Joshua
Bowers
D
DB
CB
2
70
172
FR
0.00
New Port Richie
FL
East Lake



11
Phil
Barrett
D
DB
CB
1
72
170
SO
1.00
Columbia
SC
Irmo



20
Jay
Howard
D
DB
CB
1
73
180
R-FR
0.50
Lewisburg
TN
Marshall County



27
Jaylan
Adams
D
DB
CB
2
70
165
FR
0.00
Johnson City
TN
Science Hill



6
Lane
Botkin
D
DB

1
72
195
R-FR
0.50
Columbia
SC
A.C. Flora



24
Aron
Spann, III
D
DB

1
74
205
SR
3.00
Spartanburg
SC
Dorman



30
Cliff
Barrett
D
DB

2
72
190
GR
3.00
Columbia
SC
Irmo
Lenoir-Rhyne


33
Ronald
Peterkin
D
DB

3
72
185
GR
3.00
Stone Mountain
GA
Stephenson
Georgia State


37
Destin
Mack
D
DB

2
72
190
FR
0.00
Macon
GA
Tattnall Square



49
Marquise
Blount
D
DL
DE
2
75
223
FR
0.00
Charlotte
NC
Vance



92
Aaron
Brawley
D
DL
DE
1
74
215
SO
1.00
Loganville
GA
Grayson



88
Shawn
McCord
D
DL
DT
2
74
255
GR
3.00
Aberdeen
NJ
Red Bank Catholic
St. Francis


98
Joseph
Randolph, II
D
DL
DT
1
75
270
JR
2.00
Jefferson
GA
Jefferson



68
Ken
Allen
D
DL
NT
1
73
295
SR
3.00
Elberton
GA
Elbert County



96
Ja'lon
Williams
D
DL
NT
2
74
280
JR
2.00
Columbia
SC
Spring Valley



25
Sean-Thomas
Faulkner
D
LB
BAN
1
71
180
R-FR
0.50
Easley
SC
Easley



31
Von
Ramsey
D
LB
BAN
2
71
190
FR
0.00
Hodges
SC
Greenwood



38
Noah
Dawkins
D
LB
KAT
2
73
215
SR
3.00
Lyman
SC
Byrnes



55
Russell
Hubbs
D
LB
KAT
1
73
220
SR
3.00
Rock Hill
SC
Northwestern



4
Phil
Davis
D
LB

1
73
215
JR
2.00
Marietta
GA
Hillgrove



9
Willie
Eubanks, III
D
LB

1
74
215
SO
1.00
Augusta
GA
Laney



47
Jeremy
Samuels
D
LB

2
72
230
SO
1.00
Winter Garden
FL
West Orange



50
Caleb
Deveaux
D
LB

2
73
213
FR
0.00
Waxhaw
NC
Marvin Ridge




















48
48
48
48
48
30
48
73
221
48
1.39
48
48
48
3






Note1: I didn't include Specialists on here, but I do have them in the data

Note2: I didn't use the "OR's" (shown as "3's" in the DPTH column) in some of the data tabulated above.


Looking at your experience numbers, it looks like you missed a bit. If you are giving 0.5 for players who have redshirted then there are a few who are 0.5 short. They are list on the web site by their year only, except for RSF. Black is a good example, but there are more. Not a bad stat to look at, but just another data point.

[FUBeAR]

Looking at your experience numbers, it looks like you missed a bit. If you are giving 0.5 for players who have redshirted then there are a few who are 0.5 short. They are list on the web site by their year only, except for RSF. Black is a good example, but there are more. Not a bad stat to look at, but just another data point.


* Some Teams (Wofford, I think and a few others) only show Redshirts for their R-FR, so those Teams experience number is likely a bit understated.See...at Furman we were taught to read ALL of the footnotes...while you were learning how to scrub toilets with your toothbrush.

That said/dug, if you want to PM me a list of the ones that should get an extra 0.5 of experience points, I'll update my spreadsheet and the prior posts with CIT's accurate numbers. Hey, I ain't looking through each one of their profiles or callin' their Mamas to find out what year their babies went off that bad, smelly place in Charleston for the 1st time.

[FUBeAR]

Article on one of Woffy's MANY new Coaches - sounds, um....tenacious!

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180807/defensive-coordinator-sam-siefkes-brings-tenacity-to-wofford?start=2

...on the other hand...maybe they were paying him what he's worth at FIU.

On the 3rd hand, maybe Woffy will have this much of a TENACIOUS D! [WARNING: Some NSFW language in this video]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A

[SU DOG]

UTC has unique practice electronics;

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2018/aug/07/utc-unique-fcs-gps-tracking-players/476476/

[FUBeAR]

UTC has unique practice electronics;

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2018/aug/07/utc-unique-fcs-gps-tracking-players/476476/

Hey...great cover story for some of the hardware already attached to some of those 86 Transfers the Mocs have brought in...

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/heraldcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/3e/13eed0ce-bc30-11e3-911d-001a4bcf6878/533f092b0e507.image.jpg

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[PaladinFan]

A good preview of Furman's OL this season: http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180807h0lusj

Clay Hendrix made his name as an offensive line coach. Many Paladin fans will point to his departure to Air Force after the 2007 season as the beginning point of Furman's slow slide into mediocrity. With a few exceptions, the OL play during the latter years of the Lamb administration and virtually all of Fowler's tenure was pretty bad.

The Cliff's Notes version: Furman has to replace two productive and long-time starters at C (Matt Schmidt) and OG (Terrell Bush). They have moved arguably their best returning player (Reed Kroeber) to C, flipped a DT to RG (Jordan Harris), the starting LT to LG (Jacob Conrad), and relying on two OTs that played a lot last year (Bo Layton and Andy Godwin).

A lot of these guys will be cross trained at different positions. Its the most depth Furman has had on the OL in quite some time.

Physically, Furman's group looks to be a lean and athletic bunch. No starter is shorter than 6'4 and all are under 290. This is, of course, by design.

[PaladinNation]

A good preview of Furman's OL this season: http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180807h0lusj

Clay Hendrix made his name as an offensive line coach. Many Paladin fans will point to his departure to Air Force after the 2007 season as the beginning point of Furman's slow slide into mediocrity. With a few exceptions, the OL play during the latter years of the Lamb administration and virtually all of Fowler's tenure was pretty bad.

The Cliff's Notes version: Furman has to replace two productive and long-time starters at C (Matt Schmidt) and OG (Terrell Bush). They have moved arguably their best returning player (Reed Kroeber) to C, flipped a DT to RG (Jordan Harris), the starting LT to LG (Jacob Conrad), and relying on two OTs that played a lot last year (Bo Layton and Andy Godwin).

A lot of these guys will be cross trained at different positions. Its the most depth Furman has had on the OL in quite some time.

Physically, Furman's group looks to be a lean and athletic bunch. No starter is shorter than 6'4 and all are under 290. This is, of course, by design.

this is also a young group… expected starters; three sophomore's Kroeber, Layton, Harris and two junior's Conrad and Godwin. I'll lean on PaladinFan and Bear on deeper knowledge-based analysis, from my point of view what excited me is the trio of Kroeber, Layton, and Harris - yes they're tall but more importantly, they are athletes, they can really move.

[PaladinFan]

this is also a young group… expected starters; three sophomore's Kroeber, Layton, Harris and two junior's Conrad and Godwin. I'll lean on PaladinFan and Bear on deeper knowledge-based analysis, from my point of view what excited me is the trio of Kroeber, Layton, and Harris - yes they're tall but more importantly, they are athletes, they can really move.

Harris is going to surprise people. He came to Furman as a DT, but was an impressive high school offensive lineman.

[FUBeAR]

A good preview of Furman's OL this season: http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180807h0lusj

Clay Hendrix made his name as an offensive line coach. Many Paladin fans will point to his departure to Air Force after the 2007 season as the beginning point of Furman's slow slide into mediocrity. With a few exceptions, the OL play during the latter years of the Lamb administration and virtually all of Fowler's tenure was pretty bad.

The Cliff's Notes version: Furman has to replace two productive and long-time starters at C (Matt Schmidt) and OG (Terrell Bush). They have moved arguably their best returning player (Reed Kroeber) to C, flipped a DT to RG (Jordan Harris), the starting LT to LG (Jacob Conrad), and relying on two OTs that played a lot last year (Bo Layton and Andy Godwin).

A lot of these guys will be cross trained at different positions. Its the most depth Furman has had on the OL in quite some time.

Physically, Furman's group looks to be a lean and athletic bunch. No starter is shorter than 6'4 and all are under 290. This is, of course, by design.So...they are still pretty young, registering an average of 1.8 on the FUBeAR experience level scale & only 7.2 starts / man (assuming Godwin is the Starter at RT). But, losing 2 Long-time Starters and still returning 36 starts isn’t bad. As it seems, they will only have 1 first time Starter in the OL when they line up against Clemson in. A few weeks. He’ll grow up fast that day! [BTW - I sat with FU’s (then) Coaches and watched this Player they are moving to OL play in the GHSA State Championship game a few years ago. I liked what I saw from him far more than from his teammate who also headed to FU. Well, his Teammate started every game as a FR OLman at FU and, I believe was All SoCon FR, before transferring as a result of the change in Coaching Staffs. My guess is this young man moving over to the OL will be an outstanding Player for Furman and moving him to OL is brilliant!] And, for the most part, despite their youth, these young men played at a very high level (with low pad level (OL joke)) last year as evidenced by Furman’s Offensive production. Overall, FU looks very solid upfront on Offense for the next 2 to 3 years...at least.

Also want to cite the work of OL Coach, Pete Lusk. Yes, he has a great resource & mentor in Coach Hendrix, who Coached him as a Player at Air Force and has mentored him as a Coach beginning with his work at USAFA Prep. But, in his own right, Coach Lusk is doing a GREAT JOB as Furman’s OL Coach! Now, I have to admit that I am seriously biased in this opinion as Coach Lusk is my Raleigh, NC ‘Homeboy,’ played OL at Air Force (where I have a little bias), is now Coaching at Furman, and is one of the nicest, most genuine young Coaches that I have ever met. Look for BIG things from FU’s OL as long as he is there and look for BIG things from him in his Coaching career!

[PaladinFan]

So...they are still pretty young, registering an average of 1.8 on the FUBeAR experience level scale & only 7.2 starts / man (assuming Godwin is the Starter at RT). But, losing 2 Long-time Starters and still returning 36 starts isn’t bad. As it seems, they will only have 1 first time Starter in the OL when they line up against Clemson in. A few weeks. He’ll grow up fast that day! [BTW - I sat with FU’s (then) Coaches and watched this Player they are moving to OL play in the GHSA State Championship game a few years ago. I liked what I saw from him far more than from his teammate who also headed to FU. Well, his Teammate started every game as a FR OLman at FU and, I believe was All SoCon FR, before transferring as a result of the change in Coaching Staffs. My guess is this young man moving over to the OL will be an outstanding Player for Furman and moving him to OL is brilliant!] And, for the most part, despite their youth, these young men played at a very high level (with low pad level (OL joke)) last year as evidenced by Furman’s Offensive production. Overall, FU looks very solid upfront on Offense for the next 2 to 3 years...at least.

Also want to cite the work of OL Coach, Pete Lusk. Yes, he has a great resource & mentor in Coach Hendrix, who Coached him as a Player at Air Force and has mentored him as a Coach beginning with his work at USAFA Prep. But, in his own right, Coach Lusk is doing a GREAT JOB as Furman’s OL Coach! Now, I have to admit that I am seriously biased in this opinion as Coach Lusk is my Raleigh, NC ‘Homeboy,’ played OL at Air Force (where I have a little bias), is now Coaching at Furman, and is one of the nicest, most genuine young Coaches that I have ever met. Look for BIG things from FU’s OL as long as he is there and look for BIG things from him in his Coaching career!

Having both of those guys on a OL for a AA high school seems unfair.

[FUBeAR]

Harris is going to surprise people. He came to Furman as a DT, but was an impressive high school offensive lineman.Yeah - they probably have a solid recruiting budget there though. xnodx


Anyway, though they both played both ways in HS, the one who initially played OL at FU was much more of an OLman in HS & the one who is still at FU was much more of a DLman in HS. They both played ‘spot duty’ on the opposite sides of the ball. As I said the DL one (now OL) impressed me far more - very athletic & hustled. I won’t say what FU’s then-DL Coach said about the ‘other one’ (the one who transferred), but it sure wasn’t those things.

[PaladinFan]

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180807/defensive-coordinator-sam-siefkes-brings-tenacity-to-wofford

Good write up on Wofford’s new defensive staff. Looks like a lot of high energy guys in leadership roles there now.

It certainly jumps off the page how young the Terrier defensive staff is. I would think even the most stalwart Wofford fan would have to concede there is a lot of inexperience on that side of the ball with respect to the coaches.

Siefkes has two years of D3 football heading into this season. I would have to think that the jump up two levels from a Wisconsin-only league to the SoCon is going to be a massive learning curve.

[FUBeAR]

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180807/defensive-coordinator-sam-siefkes-brings-tenacity-to-wofford

Good write up on Wofford’s new defensive staff. Looks like a lot of high energy guys in leadership roles there now.

It certainly jumps off the page how young the Terrier defensive staff is. I would think even the most stalwart Wofford fan would have to concede there is a lot of inexperience on that side of the ball with respect to the coaches.

Siefkes has two years of D3 football heading into this season. I would have to think that the jump up two levels from a Wisconsin-only league to the SoCon is going to be a massive learning curve.


Article on one of Woffy's MANY new Coaches - sounds, um....tenacious!

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180807/defensive-coordinator-sam-siefkes-brings-tenacity-to-wofford?start=2
Cool story bro. Gave me a deja vu kind of vibe when I read it...

But, to your (bolded) point, I think Coach Arth & his mostly D3 staff at Chatt proved last year that the D3 to D1 transition may not be quite as seamless as Coach Siefkes expects...

“I think football is football,” Siefkes said. “At the end of the day, it’s not really any different here than it was at Platteville. There are just different pieces, better pieces, and more of them to use. I don’t care if you’re in middle school, high school or professional, it’s still the same game.”

Chattanooga 2016
OVERALL 9-4
PCT .692
CONF 6 - 2
CONF PCT .750

Chattanooga 2017
OVERALL 3-8
PCT .273
CONF 3-5
CONF PCT .375

[Milktruck74]

Has the SoCon ended its deal with ESPN3? Looks like there is no broadcast for many of the Mocs Away games.....are they going to rely on the Socon digital network? the SCDN is always a craps shoot....they usually have the video up by the second half and the audio by the 3rd quarter....

[PaladinFan]

I think best case scenario for Wofford is that Siefkes is a boy wonder type in the mold of Kliff Kingsbury or Sean McVeigh.

The skeptic in me looks at the SoCon and sees some really talented offensive coaches and some unique looks week to week and thinks that will be a challenge.

[PaladinFan]

Has the SoCon ended its deal with ESPN3? Looks like there is no broadcast for many of the Mocs Away games.....are they going to rely on the Socon digital network? the SCDN is always a craps shoot....they usually have the video up by the second half and the audio by the 3rd quarter....

http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180803e2c14y

According to Furman's press release, every home game will be on ESPN. Cannot speak for the other universities.

[Milktruck74]

Thanks. I saw that. It may be that FU is the only one to release times so far....hopefully.

[FUBeAR]

Thanks. I saw that. It may be that FU is the only one to release times so far....hopefully.I don’t know the ‘right’ answer, but I imagine this is all related to ESPN creating ESPN+ and moving some stuff from ESPN3 if they think they can get people to pay $5/month for it. They got me for some reason - SoCon baseball Tourney, I think and I intended to cancel right after...but didn’t and now it’s almost Football Season...So I’m not going to cancel it now...they’ll probably get my $60/year until they figure out a way to get more.

On another note, I think SCDN has improved in the past year or so...probably due to ESPN3 req’d equipment upgrades.

Figuring it all out this Fall won’t be as easy in prior recent years. My recommendation...retain a millennial or his/her younger sister/brother to hook you up...and get you a beer...and a sandwich.

[Milktruck74]

I don’t know the ‘right’ answer, but I imagine this is all related to ESPN creating ESPN+ and moving some stuff from ESPN3 if they think they can get people to pay $5/month for it. They got me for some reason - SoCon baseball Tourney, I think and I intended to cancel right after...but didn’t and now it’s almost Football Season...So I’m not going to cancel it now...they’ll probably get my $60/year until they figure out a way to get more.

On another note, I think SCDN has improved in the past year or so...probably due to ESPN3 req’d equipment upgrades.

Figuring it all out this Fall won’t be as easy in prior recent years. My recommendation...retain a millennial or his/her younger sister/brother to hook you up...and get you a beer...and a sandwich.


All Mocs Homes Games are ESPN3, I'll make many, but life happens andI'm 4+hrs away...I'm actually closer to most other SoCon Venues....I live 2 miles from ETSU, 2 hrs from Cullowhee and Greeneville (but FU is on 3), Martin in on OVC network.....

So, I'm looking at a trip to Charleston and probably Cullowhee....which aren't bad places to go for a weekend.

[Smitty]

So, I'm looking at a trip to Charleston and probably Cullowhee....which aren't bad places to go for a weekend.

It depends on which day the game is for here in Charleston. That will be the one thing I miss the most about Cullowhee, the cooler afternoon/evening games. Most games will be too far for me to go to this year.

As for TV schedule, every game says Catamount Sports Network which is dumb because that can either mean radio or TV currently. I guess I'll just be in suspense until The Cats tells me

[ElCid]

http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2018-19/releases/20180803e2c14y

According to Furman's press release, every home game will be on ESPN. Cannot speak for the other universities.

Ours is not up, so who knows. Maybe a test to see if they can get more butts in seats?

[youcanbankit]

Quick question....Is it 2018 that all schools in the SoCon MUST have instant replay capability?

[PaladinFan]

Quick question....Is it 2018 that all schools in the SoCon MUST have instant replay capability?

No. According to Post & Courier (https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-football-focuses-on-early-commitments-socon-teams-add-instant/article_12f7f616-9113-11e8-a341-b7fc96b27b06.html)

Instant replay capabilities for 2018:
Mercer
The Citadel
Furman
WCU
Samford

[walliver]

For the last few years, most SoCon games have been prepared by the host school for distribution, The $5 million payout by the ne'er-do-wells that left 4 years ago was distributed to the remaining schools to purchase equipment. Some schools do a decent job and some fall somewhat short.

It's interesting that WCU has replay. If they use the same cameras they use for broadcast, I hope they have invested in decent tripods this year. Previous telecasts have looked like the Blair Witch project.

[FUBeAR]

It's interesting that WCU has replay. If they use the same cameras they use for broadcast, I hope they have invested in decent tripods this year. Previous telecasts have looked like the Blair Witch project.That may be true, but I bet they wouldn’t let an outstanding play-by-play man with 26 years of loyal service slip away over a few shekels.

(Please Note: FUBeAR said something positive about WCU)

[Smitty]

It's interesting that WCU has replay. If they use the same cameras they use for broadcast, I hope they have invested in decent tripods this year. Previous telecasts have looked like the Blair Witch project.

We need a cash injection to fix/change the press box. It wasn't built with TV in mind and it is too close to the field to get decent shots. They also need to get some scissor lifts with tripods instead of relying on the interns at the corners of the field

[Reign of Terrier]

That may be true, but I bet they wouldn’t let an outstanding play-by-play man with 26 years of loyal service slip away over a few shekels.

(Please Note: FUBeAR said something positive about WCU)

FYI the real reason he left was because his wife relocated to Oregon (I have a step or two insider information)

[PaladinFan]

FYI the real reason he left was because his wife relocated to Oregon (I have a step or two insider information)

I mean, that may be. Hauser was pretty clear in his statements to the paper he wanted to come back and Wofford never even spoke to him about how to make it work.

[Reign of Terrier]

I mean, that may be. Hauser was pretty clear in his statements to the paper he wanted to come back and Wofford never even spoke to him about how to make it work.

Trust me.

[FUBeAR]

I mean, that may be. Hauser was pretty clear in his statements to the paper he wanted to come back and Wofford never even spoke to him about how to make it work.

Yes - I cannot imagine, why, if he just wanted to go to OR, he would hike his hind leg & soil his former employer as he did with those seemingly very candid comments. In fact, that would seem to be the LAST thing he would want to do. Sure sounded like he wanted to find some way to make it work, but was willing to go if he couldn’t get some kind of increase after more than a few years of working without one.

It would seem to make a lot more sense for him to say, “While my 26 years of broadcasting Wofford Terriers games have been exciting & fulfilling, due to my wife’s relocation to the West Coast, I must announce that I will not be returning next year. I wish the best...blah, blah, blah, thank blah. I’ll always be an SHD in my heart.

Not doubting your sources transmitted the info you are sharing, but you might want to consider the motivations of any of the individuals in that communication chain.

That reason may be 100% accurate, but, on its face, it just doesn’t seem to add up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Trust me.

As I said in my post, I am trusting you heard that from “inside sources.” Just not sure that I would trust the motivations of each of those sources. If he left on his own for that Oregon reason, with how he publicly characterized the situation, I don’t think anyone would risk hiring him ever again. Maybe that’s why El Cid went to the PFL for their new guy.

Whatever, no skin off my body parts. I did like his work though...usually. It was a bit painful 3x last year though. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Meet the 2018 FCS *Playoff Bound Mercer Bears

https://mercerbears.com/images/2018/8/8/2018_Mercer_Football_Team_Photo.jpg?width=1600

* Just kidding - Gotta see how the new OC has them playing, solid maturation from the QB slot, and how the new guys on the OL look before I would truly be willing to project them to make the Playoffs. Nice pic though. #59 is READY! :)

[FUBeAR]

We need a cash injection to fix/change the press box. It wasn't built with TV in mind and it is too close to the field to get decent shots. They also need to get some scissor lifts with tripods instead of relying on the interns at the corners of the fieldI don’t think the Press Box there is any closer than Mercer’s, but the last time I was in Whitmire Stadium was 1983 & there were no stands at all behind the Visiting Team bench (which felt very weird), so I’m not sure about that. But maybe the WCU vid peeps should talk to the Mercer vid peeps & see what they do, because I think Mercer’s sideline broadcast feed from there ain’t bad - other than showing all the silver aluminum ‘Fans’ that start showing up on the Home side 30 minutes before UGa’s Kickoff. End zone capabilities are very good in Macon - tower built into scoreboard & top of fieldhouse. Doesn’t WCU have buildings of some type behind both end zones now. Can’t they just set up on top of those & not need the lifts? De-Shining the field there (however that could be done) is my major request.

And, BTW, I think ETSU’s broadcast was far inferior to what I saw from WCU.

[Note: That’s 2 Nice comments about WCU today]

[SU DOG]

Quick question....Is it 2018 that all schools in the SoCon MUST have instant replay capability?

No, it is 2019.

[SU DOG]

As much as I like my 2nd favorite SoCon team, I have to agree about their streaming. While we have our own problems, I have also said for a long time that the Catamounts' field always looks so washed out.

[Catamount87]

I don’t think the Press Box there is any closer than Mercer’s, but the last time I was in Whitmire Stadium was 1983 & there were no stands at all behind the Visiting Team bench (which felt very weird), so I’m not sure about that. But maybe the WCU vid peeps should talk to the Mercer vid peeps & see what they do, because I think Mercer’s sideline broadcast feed from there ain’t bad - other than showing all the silver aluminum ‘Fans’ that start showing up on the Home side 30 minutes before UGa’s Kickoff. End zone capabilities are very good in Macon - tower built into scoreboard & top of fieldhouse. Doesn’t WCU have buildings of some type behind both end zones now. Can’t they just set up on top of those & not need the lifts? De-Shining the field there (however that could be done) is my major request.

And, BTW, I think ETSU’s broadcast was far inferior to what I saw from WCU.

[Note: That’s 2 Nice comments about WCU today]


Yes, both end zones have building right behind them. The Ramsey Center is on one end with the scoreboard and video board are between the field and Ramsey. There's a camera station on the top of the video board structure. Jordan-Phillips field house is on the other end. Paw's Porch is on the second level, it's a cool place to watch the game from too. They do set up a camera at the corner of it as well but the angle is low since it's only about 10-12 feet above the field.

Oh about those two compliments, we know you are a Catamount fan deep down too. :D

[youcanbankit]

Ok...I have not seen FuBears OLine thread yet. So I guess I missed it. Lets open that discussion. Looking at some of the folks returning, looks like those Samford Bulldogs are looking good for size and speed. Averaging 6'5" and well over 300 lbs. And that's using 6.3 for Nick Nixon, not the 6'6". Hope they get coached up on run blocking.

[SU DOG]

I think I saw where Western has a similiar size O-Line.

[FUBeAR]

I think I saw where Western has a similiar size O-Line.

Well....let's go to the Tale of the Tape (or word processor, in Samford’s case) - REVISED 8/12 BASED UPON SCRIMMAGE VIDEOS, MEDIA GUIDES, AND SUCH



Team
AVG Starting OL Height
AVG Starting OL Weight

AVG 2-Deep OL Height
AVG 2-Deep OL Weight

AVG ALL OL Height
AVG ALL OL Weight


Chattanooga
6' 5"
311

6' 5"
301

6' 4"
296


ETSU
6' 4"
301




6' 5"
300


Furman
6' 5"
285

6' 4"
282

6' 4"
275


Mercer
6' 4"
293




6' 3"
295


Samford
6' 6"*
301




6' 4"
279


The Citadel
6' 2"
276

6' 2"
275

6' 2"
270


VMI
6' 5"
297




6' 4"
294


WCU
6' 4"
312

6' 5"
309

6' 4"
298


Wofford
6' 3"
292

6' 3"
290

6' 3"
283


NOTES
- Used published 2-Deeps for Chatt and CIT
- Used a recent press release for Furman's Starters
- Took a stab at Mercer's Starters
- Knew 4 of 5 for WCU (since they've been around since I played...it seems)...and 'stuck' their other R-SR in there for the 5th. I believe he had a Start or 2 last year, so it seemed to make sense

If you would like to AND if you think you have a good idea of who 'your' Team's OL Starters/2-Deep are going to be, please post or PM that info to me - just need names & Starter or 2nd Teamer if your’re going that deep; don’t need HT/WT info or who is going to play which position on the OL - and I'll add "your" Team's info to the table...

The 'conclusions' I draw so far are that Chatt & WCU are big. Furman is long & lean. Mercer is stout. And CIT is a bit small. Extrapolating, I think ETSU will also be big, as will Samford - they absolutely will be big once they are done 'adjusting' their posted HT's/WT's, as desired. VMI will also be pretty big and Wofford may be a little more stout, like Mercer, than big...just depends on which ones are the Starters/2 Deep-ers.

I also think I can say that most Teams seem to have the type of OLmen they probably want to have for their Offenses and that the size differential we see here and that gets talked about SO MUCH...ain't really all that big of a deal at all.

Now...Can they play? THAT'S A REALLY BIG DEAL!!!!

[PaladinFan]

Five bold predictions from Athlon Sports

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/five-bold-southern-conference-predictions-fcs-college-football

[PaladinFan]

Five bold predictions from Athlon Sports

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/five-bold-southern-conference-predictions-fcs-college-football

Lest I be accused to just picking on Samford, here's a national FCS writer highlighting that the Bulldogs don't do themselves any favors by scheduling two OOC games that won't help them get to the post season (Shorter and FSU).

A lot of folks are bullish on Wofford, and I understand why, I just have a hard time not seeing them take a step back this year with the losses from last year's team on the field and on the sideline. While some teams can take a step back and still be really good, Wofford was winning nearly every game last season by whisker. Less productivity probably turns a number of those wins into losses.

Maybe I'll be surprised.

[Smitty]

Five bold predictions from Athlon Sports

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/five-bold-southern-conference-predictions-fcs-college-football

I always hated articles that included multiple points on the same team. It is lazy writing... We should create our own bold predictions.

1. ETSU surprises everybody and wins the SoCon
2. VMI will win 2 games this year
3. Mercer fans will be excited to see their wins advertised for 15 seconds in Times Square
4. Youcanbankit cursed Samford with his multiple bragging threads and Samford finishes 5th in the league
5. All of the option teams will decide the offense is ineffective and drop that style of play for 2019

[FUBeAR]

Rue
I always hated articles that included multiple points on the same team. It is lazy writing... We should create our own bold predictions.

1. ETSU surprises everybody and wins the SoCon
2. VMI will win 2 games this year
3. Mercer fans will be excited to see their wins advertised for 15 seconds in Times Square
4. Youcanbankit cursed Samford with his multiple bragging threads and Samford finishes 5th in the league
5. All of the option teams will decide the offense is ineffective and drop that style of play for 2019
I like #3. What’s 15 times :15? [that, of course, includes advertising 2 ties - 1 in the regular season & 1 in the National Championship game.]

I LOVE #4!!!

But let’s look at the ones Athlon threw out there...

The SoCon will beat up on itself too much - Nope. SoCon Fans will though. SoCon is gonna KILL IT OOC & get 6-5 Teams in the Playoffs this year just like the MVFC & CAA have in the past.

Samford is playing with fire - True, but once they take down the Criminoles, 84-77, in Tallahassee, before losing to Mercer, 2-0, the following week at home, it won’t matter. They get in at 6-5, primarily, by spoiling Willie Taggert’s debut season.

Josh Conklin will be the coach of the year - When did YoungTerrier get a job writing for Athlon? Not going to happen. Boyhood Friends & Furman Alums, Bobby Lamb & Clay Hendrix, are Co-Coaches of the Year & are celebrated in a big parade down Main Street in Commerce, GA

Chattanooga, The Citadel won’t challenge for the SoCon title again - True, but A) Chatt is another SoCon Team that squeaks into the Playoffs at 6-5 after licking the Cocks in Columbia and sweeping the rest of their OOC schedule. To celebrate, all of their Players wear helmets from their original college Team in their 1st round Playoff game...and Fans watching on TV think the old Blue-Gray AllStar game has been revived. B) Sorry, bellhops, I think they may be right here. But, with a new Head Coach in 2019, the optimism remains. Maybe Maurice Drayton will leave the Packers & return to his native Charleston and lead his Alma Mater’s Football Program. If El Cid ever gets a new AD hired — https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-athletic-director-search-has-candidates-more-considering/article_0b13f146-8526-11e8-9a7f-1b85291543f9.html - I would hope somebody would slip Coach Drayton’s cell phone number into his/her pocket sometime in November.

Samford’s Ahmad Gooden to claim Buchanan Award - He does, but in an unusual twist, he shares the award with Mercer’s Isiah Buehler, Furman’s entire Defense, and Wofford’s Miles Brown.

[Smitty]

Samford’s Ahmad Gooden to claim Buchanan Award - He does, but in an unusual twist, he shares the award with Mercer’s Isiah Buehler, Furman’s entire Defense, and Wofford’s Miles Brown.

And WCU's punter Ian Berryman (because punters are people too)

[FUBeAR]

And WCU's punter Ian Berryman (because punters are people too)
Sorry - I just, last night, sorta projected on the Mercer Board that Mercer’s 35-year-old-or-so, 3-time Transfer, back for his 2nd stint with the Bears, Aussie Football Rules Punter dude, Matt Shiel, will be the 1st Team All SoCon Punter at the end of the season...so I can’t give the nod to Berryman for the Buchanan.

[SU DOG]

THINGS - IMO
I get about(using the most conservative figures) 6-5, 298 for our O-Line. This is not far off from the looks of most other SoCon O-Lines. There are several on this group that could become all conference - very talented. I wouldn't even try to cipher the stats of the LBs and secondary. Question marks remain there. I will predict that our DBs will be as fast or faster than any others in the SoCon, as they are relatively long and swift.
While there is some validity that our schedule is problematic with Shorter, it is also possible that Samford provides the best SoCon OOC win at Kennesaw State(who also has Shorter on their schedule for next season). The Athlon article made it sound like we will lose that one, or maybe it just rang that way to me. I agree that we will be underdogs there, but not to the extent that we will in Tallahassee of course.
No kicker in the SoCon(and few in D-1 period) can come close to Berryman - sorry FUB.
Here's also hoping that Ahmad Gooden can stay injury free and get that award.
Defensive questions for Samford really worry me. Shaheed Salmon, Deion Pierre, Ke'tyrus Marks, Omari Williams, and some others are players that aren't easily replaced.
If Mercer upsets Sanford 0-2, then I think that Mercer defense will take them far into the Playoffs - LOL.
Wofford does have a new era coming, BUT they also have some really good players returning. I wouldn't drop them very far.
The biggest mystery team to me is UTC. We can't seem to beat them regardless.
I wish we had Furman early, as their new QB might be more questionable than later in the season. BIG shoes to fill there.

[PaladinFan]

Offensive line measurables are not terribly important, in my opinion. Different teams in this conference ask different things from their offensive line. A hulking Samford OT, for instance, who spends most of his time pass blocking, probably isn't going to be that useful in the Citadel's offense and vice versa.

I probably should be more worried about Furman's QB than I am, but I'm comfortable with either guy. I'm pretty convinced that a strong running game will make even a mediocre QB look like a wizard out there. Furman should have a good OL in front of a stout running game with speed in the backfield. Those two things together will help ease the transition.

The biggest concern on Furman's offense for me is having a guy that can back up Kealand Dirks and keep the barrage up 15 carries a game.

[FUBeAR]

Offensive line measurables are not terribly importantYour absolute best post ever!

[FUBeAR]

If Mercer upsets Sanford 0-2, then I think that Mercer defense will take them far into the PlayoffsHeld ‘em to 2 TD’s last year (1 on a very short field), WHILE Mercer’s Offense was also playing as hard it possibly could FOR Samford...and I think the Bears’ D will be even better this year. So, as I doubt Mercer’s O will go full Washington Generals again this go-round, I am going to, at present, stick with my 2-0 prediction for that game. I may revise it at a latter date.

[FUBeAR]

No kicker in the SoCon(and few in D-1 period) can come close to Berryman - sorry FUB
https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/70/106/5106070.gif

[PaladinFan]

Your absolute best post ever!

I was an all region and all city center at 5'11 190. I get it.

I played in the wrong era.

[Smitty]

I was an all region and all city center at 5'11 190. I get it.

I played in the wrong era.

And the wrong sport apparently

[PaladinFan]

And the wrong sport apparently

I probably could have passed as a serviceable offensive linemen in the 60s. Wrestling in between baseball and football didn't exactly help maintain playing weight.

Besides, being undersized wasn't really much of a disadvantage. If you are a technically sound player, you can routinely beat guys twice your size.

[youcanbankit]

I always hated articles that included multiple points on the same team. It is lazy writing... We should create our own bold predictions.

1. ETSU surprises everybody and wins the SoCon
2. VMI will win 2 games this year
3. Mercer fans will be excited to see their wins advertised for 15 seconds in Times Square
4. Youcanbankit cursed Samford with his multiple bragging threads and Samford finishes 5th in the league
5. All of the option teams will decide the offense is ineffective and drop that style of play for 2019


Ouch Smitty, you hurt my feeling. I only have one left....lol. I have been saying for two years this team is on the rise. I have been involved in college football for 20 years and know talent when I see it....thats all. I think they have proven they are rising and shown on the field they are getting better. I expect no less this year and next. After that, who knows. No bragging, just faith in the team and willing to say it in public. No curses, just blessings and many more blessings this year. They may lay an egg, but I dont think so. We will see at the end of the year if my faith and belief in this talent is correct. It only matters if they do it on the field. We will see you in Birmingham on October 6th. Not bragging just saying.

[youcanbankit]

Rue


I LOVE #4!!!



LOL....Hope you make the game on September 15th in Birmingham.

[The Cats]

I guess I'll just be in suspense until The Cats tells me


The majority of SoCon football games will be carried on ESPN+.

Throughout the season, 12 home football games will air on ESPN3, with the remaining 34 appearing on ESPN+.

All nine league football schools will have at least one home game on ESPN3, starting with Chattanooga when it hosts Tennessee Tech on Aug. 30. Samford will host Shorter the same day in a contest that will air on ESPN+.

Games are not expected to move from one platform to the other during the season.


http://www.soconsports.com/pdf9/5475433.pdf

[FUBeAR]

Samford will host Shorter the same day in a contest

https://giant.gfycat.com/FarflungBouncyAxisdeer.gif

[FUBeAR]

I have been saying for two years this team is on the rise.

I have been involved in college football for 20 years and know talent when I see it.

I think they have proven they are rising and shown on the field they are getting better. I expect no less this year and next...willing to say it in public.

...just blessings and many more blessings this year.

We will see at the end of the year...my faith and belief in this talent is correct.

So...bragging. Got it.

[FUBeAR]

I probably could have passed as a serviceable offensive linemen in the 60sFurman had a 6’ 0 205 1st Team All SoCon OLineman at Center in the early 80’s. He was succeeded at Center by a 5-11 215 pounder, who was a 1st Team All-American & won the Jacobs Blocking Trophy for the SoCon in 1985. The RG, who played beside him was about 5-8 and you know the LG that rounded out the middle of the OLine on that National DI-AA Finalist Team...as he’s FU’s Head Coach today. Guessing he was about 6-0 210...maybe 215 as a Player.

Shoulda strapped up & jumped on out there. Those 4 Superstars didn’t let lack of size deter them from being HUGE successes on the Furman OLine.

[Smitty]

The majority of SoCon football games will be carried on ESPN+.

Throughout the season, 12 home football games will air on ESPN3, with the remaining 34 appearing on ESPN+.

All nine league football schools will have at least one home game on ESPN3, starting with Chattanooga when it hosts Tennessee Tech on Aug. 30. Samford will host Shorter the same day in a contest that will air on ESPN+.

Games are not expected to move from one platform to the other during the season.


http://www.soconsports.com/pdf9/5475433.pdf





See I knew you had all the information

[FUBeAR]

If you would like a preview of what Wofford Football broadcasts will sound like going forward, here’s a link to a demo tape from the gentleman, Jim Noble, that the AnkleBiters have hired to replace Mark Hauser. He’s doing Play-by-Play here for Lake Norman HS in the Charlotte area...actually closer to Davidson College

https://s3.amazonaws.com/staa/Noble/Football.mp3

[youcanbankit]

So...bragging. Got it.

Just facts fub....you can bank on it....lol.

I like Wofford, Furman and Western Carolina, this year too. Possible four playoff teams this year.

[youcanbankit]

Furman had a 6’ 0 205 1st Team All SoCon OLineman at Center in the early 80’s. He was succeeded at Center by a 5-11 215 pounder, who was a 1st Team All-American & won the Jacobs Blocking Trophy for the SoCon in 1985. The RG, who played beside him was about 5-8 and you know the LG that rounded out that National DI-AA Finalist Team...as he’s FU’s Head Coach today. Guessing he was about 6-0 210...maybe 215 as a Player.

Shoulda strapped up & jumped on out there. Those 4 Superstars didn’t let lack of size deter them from being HUGE successes on the Furman OLine.

OMGosh...are you going to say they played in leather helmets and walked to school barefoot in the snow....lol.

[FUBeAR]

OMGosh...are you going to say they played in leather helmets and walked to school barefoot in the snow....lol.No, but they each would have probably killed themselves if they ever were part of an OLine responsible for a miserably low 2.8 yards/carry average.

[FUBeAR]

Just facts fub....you can bank on it....lol.

I like Wofford, Furman and Western Carolina, this year too. Possible four playoff teams this year.OK, Walter Brennan...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1qkorFszY

[ElCid]

The majority of SoCon football games will be carried on ESPN+.

Throughout the season, 12 home football games will air on ESPN3, with the remaining 34 appearing on ESPN+.

All nine league football schools will have at least one home game on ESPN3, starting with Chattanooga when it hosts Tennessee Tech on Aug. 30. Samford will host Shorter the same day in a contest that will air on ESPN+.

Games are not expected to move from one platform to the other during the season.


http://www.soconsports.com/pdf9/5475433.pdf




Well, this sucks. Not sure I am going to play along. Have to tho,k about it.

[youcanbankit]

OK, Walter Brennan...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1qkorFszY

Oh come on fub...You know the hatch attack dont run the ball dude. Never has. Their running game is in the short passing game. How was their passing game? You know the answer.

I like the Walter Brennan clip. Hilarious.

[Milktruck74]

OMGosh...are you going to say they played in leather helmets and walked to school barefoot in the snow....lol.

AND up hill both ways!!! The game is much different than it was in the 80s. The genreal population is bigger. Players are faster and much stronger. In the 70s, my pops (a DL/NG) was probably one of the 5 biggest guys in the league at 6'8" and 280...they won't list it, but I'm sure some of today's NFL OLs are tipping over 4 bills!!! In the early 90s, you didn't say you were over 300....everybody was 275-290....300 meant you were fat and slow. I played at 315, but the program said 295....today that number is 400.

[Bisonoline]

AND up hill both ways!!! The game is much different than it was in the 80s. The genreal population is bigger. Players are faster and much stronger. In the 70s, my pops (a DL/NG) was probably one of the 5 biggest guys in the league at 6'8" and 280...they won't list it, but I'm sure some of today's NFL OLs are tipping over 4 bills!!! In the early 90s, you didn't say you were over 300....everybody was 275-290....300 meant you were fat and slow. I played at 315, but the program said 295....today that number is 400.

6-8 280 in the 70s??Damn that was huge back then.

But its funny listening to the young players talking about what a grind pre-fall practice is. Grind???? Try 2 practices a days for 10 days. Thats a grind.

[PaladinFan]

Ouch Smitty, you hurt my feeling. I only have one left....lol. I have been saying for two years this team is on the rise. I have been involved in college football for 20 years and know talent when I see it....thats all. I think they have proven they are rising and shown on the field they are getting better. I expect no less this year and next. After that, who knows. No bragging, just faith in the team and willing to say it in public. No curses, just blessings and many more blessings this year. They may lay an egg, but I dont think so. We will see at the end of the year if my faith and belief in this talent is correct. It only matters if they do it on the field. We will see you in Birmingham on October 6th. Not bragging just saying.

With Samford, I think we’ve probably seen Hodges at his best. That is, I don’t think he’s going to give Samford more than he’s already been giving them. Last season he averaged 344+ yards of offense per game, which was the best I could find over the last 15 years or so (including Edwards, Foster, Riddle, etc.)

Now, I think the Samford offense can be better, but they are going to need a run game to do it. I’m not convinced Samford is going to commit enough to the running game. Last year we were told they were, and they didn’t. Hodges though, is probably operating at max capacity.

The question with Samford, in my view, is whether their defense can pick up the losses to graduation. I’m not sure they are going to score more points, so they are going need to be as efficient at limiting the opposing offense as they were last year.

[FUBeAR]

OMGosh...are you going to say they played in leather helmets and walked to school barefoot in the snow....lol.

AND up hill both ways!!! The game is much different than it was in the 80s. The genreal population is bigger. Players are faster and much stronger. In the 70s, my pops (a DL/NG) was probably one of the 5 biggest guys in the league at 6'8" and 280...they won't list it, but I'm sure some of today's NFL OLs are tipping over 4 bills!!! In the early 90s, you didn't say you were over 300....everybody was 275-290....300 meant you were fat and slow. I played at 315, but the program said 295....today that number is 400.

Y’all are acting like PaladinFan is a Sr. in HS & I’m his nerdy Guidance Counselor. I’m going to guess PaladinFan was making the decision whether or not to pay college football about halfway between the years I cited and today. So...my point, and oddly enough, I did have one, was that a 5-11 190 outstanding HS OLman shouldn’t, then or even now now, let how someone else defines his capabilities dissuade him from pursuing his passion. I’ll return with a few additional examples that y’all can then, also, pooh-pooh.

Yeah folks...I think I have a pretty good handle on Players’ sizes, OL, specifically. You’ve seen the tables in this thread, right? I’ve been tracking that kind of info in the same way for about 10 years now. In 2010, I did it for every D1 Team and quite a few D3’s.

The 4 examples I cited from previous FU O-Lines were ABSOLUTE ANOMALIES, even in those ancient days. I believe Chatt’s OL was pushing a 300 avg. back in those days. UTC Hall of Famer, 6-3 315, Curtis Rouse (‘78-‘81) probably helped that average, but the guys he played beside were definitely NOT members of The Lollipop Kids either. In 1977 I even played against a HIGH SCHOOL OLine (Jacksonville, NC) which averaged over 280 and I think their Center was only about 185, so the others were definitely all pushing 300. Heck, I was 6-3 265 at Furman and never played against a DLman who was much smaller than me. Most were bigger. So, yeah, it’s changed and, on the average, it’s probably changed a good bit...but not quite as drastic as y’all wanna make it sound. Since the 60’s, to which PaladinFan referenced, yes...but not since the 80’s. As MilkTruck mentioned, you can’t really go by listed weights from back then either because many Teams, like his Chatt Team, apparently & like Furman wanted to appear more ‘atheltic’ than big and wanted our opponents to underestimate us. For example, I was ‘rostered’ at 232, not 265. And...as at least 1 recent roster HT change for a pre-season All SoCon OLman might indicate, I’m not sure we can trust listed metrics today either. Some just might be a bit exaggerated.

Now...3 more recent examples...yep...all from Furman or Mercer & 1 from BOTH...

1) A HS WR from FL was about 6-1 120 and slow. He walked on at Furman...and never really played. Not the end of his story at all though. Not by a long shot. He stayed at it for 4 years & I think he ‘ballooned’ up to 140, but he pursued his passion mightily...and he’s now Mercer’s RB Coach...Living his dream because he refused to let other people tell him he couldn’t.

2) An OLman from GA was 6-1 215 the 1st time he set foot on Mercer’s campus in the winter of 2012. A little over 2.5 years later, he was named an All SoCon OLman. He refused to listen to doubters, overcame significant adversity, worked like a fiend in the weight room and ‘at the table,’ and grew himself into that 6-1 290 All Conference OLman. BTW - on this one, I can 100% vouch for the accuracy of the metrics.

3) We’ll have to see how this one plays out, but Furman signed a 5-9 DLman from GA in this year’s Recruiting class. After just a few days of practice, Coach Hendrix said he expects that young man to get significant playing time this year as a True FR. Do you think anyone ever told that kid he was too small to play D1 Football? I don’t think he was paying attention and I don’t think he’s going to.

So...in CONCLUSION (to what began as a brief off-hand comment), if he REALLY wanted to, PaladinFan should have tried to play Football at Furman...or maybe at Samford. They could have had him up from 5-11 to 6-2 with just a couple of keystrokes.

[FUBeAR]

6-8 280 in the 70s??Damn that was huge back then.

But its funny listening to the young players talking about what a grind pre-fall practice is. Grind???? Try 2 practices a days for 10 days. Thats a grind.

12 days with 1 day off and 3-a-days if you were also a Specialist...and 2-3 hour meetings every night, including on that 1 day “off.” That ‘middle practice’ for Specialists was only 1 hour. Morning and Afternoon were 3 hours each.

THAT, my snowflakes, was a GRIND!

[Bisonoline]

12 days with 1 day off and 3-a-days if you were also a Specialist...and 2-3 hour meetings every night, including on that 1 day “off.” That ‘middle practice’ for Specialists was only 1 hour. Morning and Afternoon were 3 hours each.

THAT, my snowflakes, was a GRIND!

In full pads and we didnt get mesh jerseys till my junior year. Back then they still didnt believe in water breaks until my junior year also. Gatoraide was first coming on the market and was considered expensive..

[FUBeAR]

In full pads and we didnt get mesh jerseys till my junior year. Back then they still didnt believe in water breaks until my junior year also. Gatoraide was first coming on the market and was considered expensive..You win. We had mesh & water + Gatorade-like juice...3 flavors!

Abolutely in Full pads though, with Full contact...every practice...except the Specialists one, which was helmet & shoulder pads.

[Bisonoline]

You win. We had mesh & water + Gatorade-like juice...3 flavors!

Abolutely in Full pads though, with Full contact...every practice...except the Specialists one, which was helmet & shoulder pads.

We all won because we made it through the grind. Man when I think how hot and humid it was and those damn hot unies I wonder why more guys didnt fallout from heat exhaustion.

They gave us gatoraide once in a great while as a treat.xnodx Wow 3 flavors. Who would a thought.

Remember putting on your pads for the afternoon practice and they were still wet and cold from the morning practice? Good times.:D

[FUBeAR]

If you want a DETAILED preview of the 2018 SoCon Season, look no further. SoConJohn packs in the info at this link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t8MUWn2JxVWPVRJ_JWhG5px4vjJJ80bi/view

His projection...

1) Samford
2) Furman
3) Wofford
4) Mercer
5) WCU
6) ETSU
7) CIT
8) Chatt
9) VMI

[Milktruck74]

12 days with 1 day off and 3-a-days if you were also a Specialist...and 2-3 hour meetings every night, including on that 1 day “off.” That ‘middle practice’ for Specialists was only 1 hour. Morning and Afternoon were 3 hours each.

THAT, my snowflakes, was a GRIND!

I went to Fork Union...My Parents dropped me off on a Sunday and mom kissed me goodbye at 2pm, and I was in full pads practicing at 3pm...We had 16 days of 3 a days, the exception being only 2 on Sunday so we could go to chapel and on day 4 we practiced in the morning, loaded on a bus and went to Newport News to scrimmage the Shipbuilding Academy (we knew 4 plays). When we got back to FUMA, the lights were on....and we got in another practice...

[Milktruck74]

If you want a DETAILED preview of the 2018 SoCon Season, look no further. SoConJohn packs in the info at this link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t8MUWn2JxVWPVRJ_JWhG5px4vjJJ80bi/view

His projection...

1) Samford
2) Furman
3) Wofford
4) Mercer
5) WCU
6) ETSU
7) CIT
8) Chatt
9) VMI

I'm not sure what the order will be, but Chattanooga is not the 8th placed team in the conference....Last year was a riddled with injuries and suspensions....the entire season was the perfect storm of crappy situations that caused a 3-8 season. They have fixed several of their issues, and should return to the middle of the pack. Not world beaters, but a solid team that must be prepared for each and every week. I think the Mocs are the first SoCon team not in the playoffs this year.....is that 4th? 5th? Maybe 3rd????

[PaladinFan]

Y’all are acting like PaladinFan is a Sr. in HS & I’m his nerdy Guidance Counselor. I’m going to guess PaladinFan was making the decision whether or not to pay college football about halfway between the years I cited and today. So...my point, and oddly enough, I did have one, was that a 5-11 190 outstanding HS OLman shouldn’t, then or even now now, let how someone else defines his capabilities dissuade him from pursuing his passion. I’ll return with a few additional examples that y’all can then, also, pooh-pooh.

Yeah folks...I think I have a pretty good handle on Players’ sizes, OL, specifically. You’ve seen the tables in this thread, right? I’ve been tracking that kind of info in the same way for about 10 years now. In 2010, I did it for every D1 Team and quite a few D3’s.

The 4 examples I cited from previous FU O-Lines were ABSOLUTE ANOMALIES, even in those ancient days. I believe Chatt’s OL was pushing a 300 avg. back in those days. UTC Hall of Famer, 6-3 315, Curtis Rouse (‘78-‘81) probably helped that average, but the guys he played beside were definitely NOT members of The Lollipop Kids either. In 1977 I even played against a HIGH SCHOOL OLine (Jacksonville, NC) which averaged over 280 and I think their Center was only about 185, so the others were definitely all pushing 300. Heck, I was 6-3 265 at Furman and never played against a DLman who was much smaller than me. Most were bigger. So, yeah, it’s changed and, on the average, it’s probably changed a good bit...but not quite as drastic as y’all wanna make it sound. Since the 60’s, to which PaladinFan referenced, yes...but not since the 80’s. As MilkTruck mentioned, you can’t really go by listed weights from back then either because many Teams, like his Chatt Team, apparently & like Furman wanted to appear more ‘atheltic’ than big and wanted our opponents to underestimate us. For example, I was ‘rostered’ at 232, not 265. And...as at least 1 recent roster HT change for a pre-season All SoCon OLman might indicate, I’m not sure we can trust listed metrics today either. Some just might be a bit exaggerated.

Now...3 more recent examples...yep...all from Furman or Mercer & 1 from BOTH...

1) A HS WR from FL was about 6-1 120 and slow. He walked on at Furman...and never really played. Not the end of his story at all though. Not by a long shot. He stayed at it for 4 years & I think he ‘ballooned’ up to 140, but he pursued his passion mightily...and he’s now Mercer’s RB Coach...Living his dream because he refused to let other people tell him he couldn’t.

2) An OLman from GA was 6-1 215 the 1st time he set foot on Mercer’s campus in the winter of 2012. A little over 2.5 years later, he was named an All SoCon OLman. He refused to listen to doubters, overcame significant adversity, worked like a fiend in the weight room and ‘at the table,’ and grew himself into that 6-1 290 All Conference OLman. BTW - on this one, I can 100% vouch for the accuracy of the metrics.

3) We’ll have to see how this one plays out, but Furman signed a 5-9 DLman from GA in this year’s Recruiting class. After just a few days of practice, Coach Hendrix said he expects that young man to get significant playing time this year as a True FR. Do you think anyone ever told that kid he was too small to play D1 Football? I don’t think he was paying attention and I don’t think he’s going to.

So...in CONCLUSION (to what began as a brief off-hand comment), if he REALLY wanted to, PaladinFan should have tried to play Football at Furman...or maybe at Samford. They could have had him up from 5-11 to 6-2 with just a couple of keystrokes.

Using Samford's metrics, I probably could have gotten by with being 6'0-6'1 in cleats. xrotatehx

I was also an OLB/DE (I'm not 100% sure what the distinction is between a 5-2 DE and a 3-4 OLB, but I played whatever that position was). You'll find plenty of guys on SoCon rosters at OLB coming into the program about that size. Not many offensive linemen, though.

We weren't a big team (clearly), and a lot of our guys played both ways. We ran wind sprints three different times during every practice and tried to stay in lean shape for 4th quarter iron man football. We didn't have a "recruiting coordinator" or twitter or HUDL. Colleges weren't sending their coaches to scout South Georgia Class A high school ball in Bugtussle, Georgia. The ones that did, were there to see the guys moving on to the major programs.

Everything on tape was VHS and no one really had any expectation of playing ball at the next level (besides our 6'4 kicker who went to play for GT). Looking back, if the coaching staff had promoted their players (or the players were actively looking to play at the next level), attended the right camps, implemented a dedicated weight program, who knows.

[FUBeAR]

I'm not sure what the order will be, but Chattanooga is not the 8th placed team in the conference....Last year was a riddled with injuries and suspensions....the entire season was the perfect storm of crappy situations that caused a 3-8 season. They have fixed several of their issues, and should return to the middle of the pack. Not world beaters, but a solid team that must be prepared for each and every week. I think the Mocs are the first SoCon team not in the playoffs this year.....is that 4th? 5th? Maybe 3rd????I tend to agree with you. Too many outstanding athletes on that roster to languish in the depths...but, as you well know, in Football, more than in any other game, all 11 gotta be rowing in the same direction AND on the same stroke. That comes down to Coaching. With the way Chatt started last season, they looked very poorly Coached & I expected them to death spiral the rest of the way...but they didn’t. Somehow, the Coaching Staff pulled them out of a nosedive to beat the #2 Team in the SoCon (in one of the ugliest college football games I have ever seen - looked like both Teams were doing everything within their power to lose - but give Chatt credit for making it UGLY as a big underdog on the road) and then they took the #1 SoCon Team to 2 OT’s, again, on the road.

So, IMHO, if Chatt’s Coaches have D1 FCS ‘salt,’ the Mocs are fully capable of contending for the SoCon Championship and, certainly, making the Playoffs. If not, 1-10 is not out of the realm of possibilities. I think the former is much more likely than the latter, but that determination falls squarely upon Coach Arth & his Staff.

[PaladinNation]

Speaking of Furman's 5-9 DT freshman, Taylor Hodge - his junior video. From what I've read following him a bit after he committed to Furman he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I'll see if I can find the clip about "I refuse to be blocked." Edited: I found it.

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/7970196/58dbc62b42102e28947d8db1

https://twitter.com/taylor_hodge11/status/873604023710035968

[FUBeAR]

Using Samford's metrics, I probably could have gotten by with being 6'0-6'1 in cleats. xrotatehx

I was also an OLB/DE (I'm not 100% sure what the distinction is between a 5-2 DE and a 3-4 OLB, but I played whatever that position was). You'll find plenty of guys on SoCon rosters at OLB coming into the program about that size. Not many offensive linemen, though.

We weren't a big team (clearly), and a lot of our guys played both ways. We ran wind sprints three different times during every practice and tried to stay in lean shape for 4th quarter iron man football. We didn't have a "recruiting coordinator" or twitter or HUDL. Colleges weren't sending their coaches to scout South Georgia Class A high school ball in Bugtussle, Georgia. The ones that did, were there to see the guys moving on to the major programs.

Everything on tape was VHS and no one really had any expectation of playing ball at the next level (besides our 6'4 kicker who went to play for GT). Looking back, if the coaching staff had promoted their players (or the players were actively looking to play at the next level), attended the right camps, implemented a dedicated weight program, who knows.All that being said, if you REALLY wanted to play College Football, you shoulda.

If not, that’s 100% cool.

It sure ain’t for everybody. As I told all those Mercer Parents that I was ‘wrangling’ back in the StartUp days...many of them with young Bears whose HS experience and who had ‘measurables’ that were almost identical to what you described...”College Football is REALLY HARD.”

Some, like Tyler Ward, John Russ, and the 1 I previously mentioned became All SoCon Players & some hardly saw the (game) field at all, but stuck it out & played all 4 years (like the FU WR/Mercer Coach I mentioned did at FU), and some quit after (or during) the 1st full contact practice...or even sooner.

My point is, if ANY young HS Player REALLY wants to play College Football, they can find a way to do that.

[SU DOG]

Is this premise of Samford metrics inflating players measurements based upon ONE player? I agree that Nixon probably didn't gain 2 inches since last year, but that is a small sample of data to make these allegations.
I can cite another example that is even more un-probable. DT Justin Foster is currently a starter on our D-Line. Last year he was listed at 6-5, 275 pounds, this year he is in the Fact Book as 6-3, 267 pounds. I can cite about a half dozen other players(names upon request) who "shrunk" from last year also. xlolx With cleats sometimes, without cleats sometimes - I DNK. You can say that the Samford metrics gathering techniques should be more consistent, careful, or accurate with their figures, and I would agree. To infer, however, that there is an obvious intent to inflate the numbers is, IMO, totally unfounded.

[PaladinFan]

Is this premise of Samford metrics inflating players measurements based upon ONE player? I agree that Nixon probably didn't gain 2 inches since last year, but that is a small sample of data to make these allegations.
I can cite another example that is even more un-probable. DT Justin Foster is currently a starter on our D-Line. Last year he was listed at 6-5, 275 pounds, this year he is in the Fact Book as 6-3, 267 pounds. I can cite about a half dozen other players(names upon request) who "shrunk" from last year also. xlolx With cleats sometimes, without cleats sometimes - I DNK. You can say that the Samford metrics gathering techniques should be more consistent, careful, or accurate with their figures, and I would agree. To infer, however, that there is an obvious intent to inflate the numbers is, IMO, totally unfounded.

I don't think this is unique to Samford. I asked a Furman basketball player how tall he was. He told me. It wasn't what was listed. He said, it's pretty much "how tall you want to be?"

[PaladinFan]

Speaking of Furman's 5-9 DT freshman, Taylor Hodge - his junior video. From what I've read following him a bit after he committed to Furman he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I'll see if I can find the clip about "I refuse to be blocked." Edited: I found it.

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/7970196/58dbc62b42102e28947d8db1

https://twitter.com/taylor_hodge11/status/873604023710035968

When Hodge signed with Furman, I thought he would have to play a different position than DT. How many 5'9 DTs are there in D1 football?

The Atlanta Falcons used to employ Jacquizz Rodgers, an undersized running back out of Oregon State. The coaches would correct people that called him "small." He's not small, he's short.

Hodge is already getting praise from the head ball coach and looks like he'll factor in Furman's fairly deep DL rotation this year. He looks like he's got every move in the book. Being undersized isn't necessarily that big of a disadvantage if the OL doesn't know where your going and can't beat you there.

[PaladinFan]

All that being said, if you REALLY wanted to play College Football, you shoulda.

If not, that’s 100% cool.

It sure ain’t for everybody. As I told all those Mercer Parents that I was ‘wrangling’ back in the StartUp days...many of them with young Bears whose HS experience and who had ‘measurables’ that were almost identical to what you described...”College Football is REALLY HARD.”

Some, like Tyler Ward, John Russ, and the 1 I previously mentioned became All SoCon Players & some hardly saw the (game) field at all, but stuck it out & played all 4 years (like the FU WR/Mercer Coach I mentioned did at FU), and some quit after (or during) the 1st full contact practice...or even sooner.

My point is, if ANY young HS Player REALLY wants to play College Football, they can find a way to do that.

I should have pushed for it just so I could tweet, "My top five schools are . . . BUT MY RECRUITMENT IS STILL OPEN"

[FUBeAR]

I should have pushed for it just so I could tweet, "My top five schools are . . . BUT MY RECRUITMENT IS STILL OPEN"
#Blessed

[FUBeAR]

5-8/233 Tyray Devezin may be a little tough to bring down this year...

https://twitter.com/MercerFootball/status/1028404441597313024

[PaladinFan]

5-8/233 Tyray Devezin may be a little tough to bring down this year...

https://twitter.com/mercerfootball/status/1028404441597313024?s=21

Does not look much fun to tackle.

[FUBeAR]

To infer, however, that there is an obvious intent to inflate the numbers is, IMO, totally unfounded.
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/better-call-saul-shred-montage.gif?w=650

[kdinva]

VMI scrimmage #1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6RYhlYU5pk

[Milktruck74]

I don't think this is unique to Samford. I asked a Furman basketball player how tall he was. He told me. It wasn't what was listed. He said, it's pretty much "how tall you want to be?"

Yeah, I remember filling out a 2 page "Packet" for the SID in late spring, so he could get the program together. basically we went down to the arena and filled in the info about ourselves while stood in line to get our head shots....so "How tall do you want to be?" is accurate.....OR, I won't say I ever did itxeyebrowx....but sometimes the packets could have been changed by the other Offensive linemen to make someone shorter or fatter!!!!

[youcanbankit]

If you want a DETAILED preview of the 2018 SoCon Season, look no further. SoConJohn packs in the info at this link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t8MUWn2JxVWPVRJ_JWhG5px4vjJJ80bi/view

His projection...

1) Samford
2) Furman
3) Wofford
4) Mercer
5) WCU
6) ETSU
7) CIT
8) Chatt
9) VMI


Great information! Thanks for posting.

[SCPALADIN]

SoConJohn does an excellent job...
That said, I can think of a couple (retired) English professors at Furman who would have a field day with this "sentence".xeyebrowx

The Mountaineers had been dominant in the SoCon for the better part of the previous two seasons in league
play, including going unbeaten in regular-season league play and making it all the 1987 national semi-
finals under the direction of head coach Sparky Woods, however, on this cool, crisp fall Saturday in
the High Country of North Carolina, Satterfield’s Paladins proved too powerful for the Mountaineers,
posting a 24-9 win over the Black and Gold before 25,301 fans on hand at Kidd-Brewer Stadium, as the
Paladins snapped Appalachian’s 20-game unbeaten streak in SoCon play.

[FUBeAR]

SoConJohn does an excellent job...
That said, I can think of a couple (retired) English professors at Furman who would have a field day with this "sentence".xeyebrowx

The Mountaineers had been dominant in the SoCon for the better part of the previous two seasons in league play, including going unbeaten in regular-season league play and making it all the 1987 national semi-finals under the direction of head coach Sparky Woods, however, on this cool, crisp fall Saturday in the High Country of North Carolina, Satterfield’s Paladins proved too powerful for the Mountaineers, posting a 24-9 win over the Black and Gold before 25,301 fans on hand at Kidd-Brewer Stadium, as the Paladins snapped Appalachian’s 20-game unbeaten streak in SoCon play.Looks fine to me...maybe a bit brief and could...(perhaps)...use a few additional ellipses and parenthetical phrases...possibly.

[FUBeAR]

Additional OL “measurables” have been added to Post #164 in this thread, if anyone cares to review.

Note: I recently read something about WCU’s Players crowing that the Catamounts will field the 3rd biggest OL in all of FCS this season. I’m not sure how they would have derived this assessment, but if I have correctly ID’d the SoCon’s Starting OLmen for each Team, then WCU will, in fact, have the 2nd Tallest OLine...in the SoCon...albeit tied with THREE other Teams and they will trot out the FOURTH heaviest OL...in the SoCon.

As I am a well-documented proponent of ‘size doesn’t matter,’ I don’t think this stuff matters even a little bit. I just think it’s funny how obsessed Fans, Coaches, and, I guess, even Players are with, “My O-Line’s bigger than your O-Line.”

One thing that I think WCU peeps could accurately claim is that they will be, at least, tied for the #1 most experienced O-Line in the Nation, at any level of College Football. They very well may trot 5 R-SR’s out there the 1st time they get the ball against Newberry on 9/1. Doubtful any other Team in the country has that luxury. And, to me, experience, especially in the OL, matters a whole heap of a lot more than HT/WT.

[That’s 3 nice WCU comments...sorta...in less than a week!]


But...as I said, the ONLY really important question is, “Can they play?”

[PaladinFan]

Wofford holds first scrimmage: http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180811/freshmen-make-case-for-playing-time-in-woffords-first-scrimmage

[SU DOG]

Another top 10 ranking for my Bulldogs. THIS better be our year.

https://samfordsports.com/news/2018/8/13/football-ranked-10th-in-afca-preseason-coaches-poll.aspx

[FUBeAR]

Here’s how Phil Steele sees the All SoCon Players...

https://s8.postimg.cc/dulsjb9jp/998_A87_C1-90_CA-46_EB-_ABC3-04_FDB65966_B3.png

Team = Total ((1O/1D/1S = 1st + 2O/2D/2S = 2nd + 3O/3D/3S = 3rd) OR (All O/All D/All S = Total))

Wofford = 14 ((1/3/1 = 5 + 2/1/3 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (4/6/4 = 14))
Mercer = 12 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5 + 2/1/1 = 4) OR (5/6/1 = 12))
WCU = 12 ((2/1/1 = 4 + 3/0/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5) OR (7/4/1 = 12))
Chattanooga = 11 ((1/0/1 = 2 + 4/2/0 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (6/4/1 = 11))
Furman = 11 ((2/1/0 = 3 + 0/1/1 = 2 + 2/3/1 = 6) OR (4/5/2 = 11))
Samford = 10 ((4/1/1 = 6 + 0/3/0 = 3 + 0/0/1 = 1) OR (4/4/2 = 10))
ETSU = 9 ((0/2/1 = 3 + 1/1/1 = 3 + 1/0/2 = 3) OR (2/3/4 = 9))
The Citadel = 6 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 0/1/0 = 1 + 2/0/0 = 2) OR (3/3/0 = 6))
VMI = 2 ((0/0/0 = 0 + 0/0/0 = 0 + 1/1/0 = 2) OR (0/0/2 = 2))

[SU DOG]

I wonder if I'm the only one who gets perplexed at deciphering and understanding the relativity of FUB's stat tables?

[FUBeAR]

I wonder if I'm the only one who gets perplexed at deciphering and understanding the relativity of FUB's stat tables?
I believe you might have meant “relevance” instead of “relativity,” as even I will freely admit that the info I process & regurgitate has very little to do with the nature of light, space, time, and gravity.

Just parsed totals in the most recent post. No stats. YT was successful in getting a South Carolina Judge (who I believe is a pheasant hunting buddy of Coach Conklin’s Father-in-Law) to issue a Cease & Desist Order/Injunction against me which prohibits me from attempting to post/analyze any complex statistical data.

And...jeez...I even put a ‘key’ in bold right up there at the top. Perhaps, your real ‘problem’ is that Mr. Steele thinks that Samford has the #6 level of overall exceptional individual talent in the SoCon.

Now, back to RELEVANCE. If you value Mr. Steele’s opinions, you might...
...question if Samford has enough breadth of Talent to run roughshod over the SoCon as is being widely projected
...conclude that WCU’s Offense, with 7 Top-Tier returnees vs. 6 for Chatt & 5 for Mercer (the 2 Teams with the next highest # on the O list), just may be unstoppable
...determine that Wofford who has, by far, the best Special Teams Talent (4), when no other Team has more than 2, may have a clear edge in close ball games, which should abound in the SoCon this year
...consider that Mercer, with 11 on O&D, which is only matched by WCU’s combined O&D total, has the best balance of those 2 Teams (5/6 vs. 7/4) & thus, think about making the Bears your ‘darkhorse’ to win the SoCon

Is that helpful?

BTW - Who are the projected OL Starters for the HomewoodHounds. I have Nixon (has he reached 6-7 yet?), Williams, and Lee penciled in. Are Loftus and Johnson the other 2?

[SU DOG]

Relativity - "The absence of standards of absolute and universal application". Seems pretty much the word I was looking for. Hey, anything that you can twist to make Mercer the champion, have at it, but Furman #5 and Samford #6 might be a little bit of a stretch. I think those 2 teams will be pretty good, although I have yet to see the term "run roughshod" used anywhere else but here. You epitomize the saying that stats can be used to prove anyway that you want them to.

Using Nixon's metrics again and again is getting to be a "beating the dead horse" issue. If you are really needing our O-Line starters, however, I think that you have the other 2 correct, at least for now.

[PaladinFan]

Here’s how Phil Steele sees the All SoCon Players...

https://s8.postimg.cc/dulsjb9jp/998_A87_C1-90_CA-46_EB-_ABC3-04_FDB65966_B3.png

Team = Total ((1O/1D/1S = 1st + 2O/2D/2S = 2nd + 3O/3D/3S = 3rd) OR (All O/All D/All S = Total))

Wofford = 14 ((1/3/1 = 5 + 2/1/3 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (4/6/4 = 14))
Mercer = 12 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5 + 2/1/1 = 4) OR (5/6/1 = 12))
WCU = 12 ((2/1/1 = 4 + 3/0/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5) OR (7/4/1 = 12))
Chattanooga = 11 ((1/0/1 = 2 + 4/2/0 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (6/4/1 = 11))
Furman = 11 ((2/1/0 = 3 + 0/1/1 = 2 + 2/3/1 = 6) OR (4/5/2 = 11))
Samford = 10 ((4/1/1 = 6 + 0/3/0 = 3 + 0/0/1 = 1) OR (4/4/2 = 10))
ETSU = 9 ((0/2/1 = 3 + 1/1/1 = 3 + 1/0/2 = 3) OR (2/3/4 = 9))
The Citadel = 6 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 0/1/0 = 1 + 2/0/0 = 2) OR (3/3/0 = 6))
VMI = 2 ((0/0/0 = 0 + 0/0/0 = 0 + 1/1/0 = 2) OR (0/0/2 = 2))

So, Furman (32.6 ppg) almost doubled up UTC's (17.7) scoring last year, so why shouldn't the Mocs have six players on the offensive team and Furman have only four (one of which has never played a snap on offense).

[FUBeAR]

So, Furman (32.6 ppg) almost doubled up UTC's (17.7) scoring last year, so why shouldn't the Mocs have six players on the offensive team and Furman have only four (one of which has never played a snap on offense).
Mr. Steele is KNOWN for his exhaustive research. Perhaps he viewed the video of the same GHSA Championship game I attended and came to the same conclusion that I did regarding the comparative capabilities of a former Furman OLman, who was named to the All SoCon Freshman Team in 2016, and the one that you are citing as "never played a snap on offense."

And...I was gonna say, to be fair, he did also include a Chatt. OLman on the 3rd Team O who has never taken a SoCon snap, but 'after further review,' it seems he did actually get in for 9 plays (a career high) vs. Samford, while playing for MissState in 2016. I'm sure Mr. Steele broke down his performance on each of those 9 plays before tagging him as 3rd Team All SoCon.

Do you presume to criticize the great and powerful Mr. Steele?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubIpoPjBUds

[FUBeAR]

Mercer's Video Release from their 1st scrimmage this past Saturday. Not sure who's selecting music for the Bears' videos these days, but I liked the person they had doing it previously, A LOT.

Not too much to see here, IMO...except that converted CB, Stephen Houzah, #3 in white, is learning that WR's are the hit-ees instead of the hit-ters (2x). OUCH! OUCH! (Safeties, #5, Malique Fleming & #7, Eric Jackson making their former Secondary-mate PAY for going over to the bRight Side.)

Speaking of OUCH!, the only other true 'highlight' I see her is the full video of the run by SO RB, 5-8/233, Tyray Devezin, at about :50 in...of the Twitter GIF I already posted.

Oh, also, there's a nice catch in there by #10, WR David Durden, formerly with the Boston Red Sox organization, who I think may do some good things this year..."Good times never seemed so good...so good...so good. DAH! DAH! DAH!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A5m1FhVwFM

[Catamount87]

Additional OL “measurables” have been added to Post #164 in this thread, if anyone cares to review.

Note: I recently read something about WCU’s Players crowing that the Catamounts will field the 3rd biggest OL in all of FCS this season. I’m not sure how they would have derived this assessment, but if I have correctly ID’d the SoCon’s Starting OLmen for each Team, then WCU will, in fact, have the 2nd Tallest OLine...in the SoCon...albeit tied with THREE other Teams and they will trot out the FOURTH heaviest OL...in the SoCon.

As I am a well-documented proponent of ‘size doesn’t matter,’ I don’t think this stuff matters even a little bit. I just think it’s funny how obsessed Fans, Coaches, and, I guess, even Players are with, “My O-Line’s bigger than your O-Line.”

One thing that I think WCU peeps could accurately claim is that they will be, at least, tied for the #1 most experienced O-Line in the Nation, at any level of College Football. They very well may trot 5 R-SR’s out there the 1st time they get the ball against Newberry on 9/1. Doubtful any other Team in the country has that luxury. And, to me, experience, especially in the OL, matters a whole heap of a lot more than HT/WT.

[That’s 3 nice WCU comments...sorta...in less than a week!]


But...as I said, the ONLY really important question is, “Can they play?”

Well, I'm not one of those Catamounts crowing about our Oline. To quote a buddy of mine who played both sides of the line for WCU in the 90s, it ain't about size or even strength, it's about beating your man. If you can't do that, all that size and strength don't mean a thing.

Now I'll say it again about those compliments FURBeAR, we know you're a Catamount fan deep down. ;-)

[PaladinFan]

I do not get too wrapped up in "listed" heights and weights. For instance, #98 (Furman DE Chinedu Okonya) is listed at 6'2 245 lbs. If he's 245 pounds, I'm a monkey's uncle.

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/1029027685807398919

[Milktruck74]

Here’s how Phil Steele sees the All SoCon Players...

https://s8.postimg.cc/dulsjb9jp/998_A87_C1-90_CA-46_EB-_ABC3-04_FDB65966_B3.png

Team = Total ((1O/1D/1S = 1st + 2O/2D/2S = 2nd + 3O/3D/3S = 3rd) OR (All O/All D/All S = Total))

Wofford = 14 ((1/3/1 = 5 + 2/1/3 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (4/6/4 = 14))
Mercer = 12 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5 + 2/1/1 = 4) OR (5/6/1 = 12))
WCU = 12 ((2/1/1 = 4 + 3/0/0 = 3 + 2/3/0 = 5) OR (7/4/1 = 12))
Chattanooga = 11 ((1/0/1 = 2 + 4/2/0 = 6 + 1/2/0 = 3) OR (6/4/1 = 11))
Furman = 11 ((2/1/0 = 3 + 0/1/1 = 2 + 2/3/1 = 6) OR (4/5/2 = 11))
Samford = 10 ((4/1/1 = 6 + 0/3/0 = 3 + 0/0/1 = 1) OR (4/4/2 = 10))
ETSU = 9 ((0/2/1 = 3 + 1/1/1 = 3 + 1/0/2 = 3) OR (2/3/4 = 9))
The Citadel = 6 ((1/2/0 = 3 + 0/1/0 = 1 + 2/0/0 = 2) OR (3/3/0 = 6))
VMI = 2 ((0/0/0 = 0 + 0/0/0 = 0 + 1/1/0 = 2) OR (0/0/2 = 2))

So, I think it is pretty easy to see that all of Chattanooga's issues last year were centered around the OL. (34 sacks, 2 QB knocked out, everybody loaded the box, since we had no time to throw, and then there was no run game, 3 and out gassed the defense, so we had no pass rush......etc) So, Phil Steele is Naming 4 of the Mocs 6 line slots (including TE) as All conference (a 1st,two 2nds, and a 3rd)....I think this shows that the entire team will be MUCH improved!!!! Not ready to call a playoff spot, but I think we will be the first team sitting out (be that 3rd, 4th, or 5th).

[Reign of Terrier]

So, I think it is pretty easy to see that all of Chattanooga's issues last year were centered around the OL. (34 sacks, 2 QB knocked out, everybody loaded the box, since we had no time to throw, and then there was no run game, 3 and out gassed the defense, so we had no pass rush......etc) So, Phil Steele is Naming 4 of the Mocs 6 line slots (including TE) as All conference (a 1st,two 2nds, and a 3rd)....I think this shows that the entire team will be MUCH improved!!!! Not ready to call a playoff spot, but I think we will be the first team sitting out (be that 3rd, 4th, or 5th).

You could make the case that the OL improved *in the last month of the season* just pull up the sack stats and control for the level of the front 7 that played (Samford, Wofford)

[PaladinFan]

A really neat story: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/2018/08/14/clemson-tigers-quarterback-furman-student/950918002/

Furman QB Harris Roberts, who is enrolled in Furman's engineering dual enrollment program with Clemson, may well start for Furman against Clemson as a Clemson student.

[FUBeAR]

You could make the case that the OL improved *in the last month of the season* just pull up the sack stats and control for the level of the front 7 that played (Samford, Wofford)You know, since Chatt did play Furman (more sacks than Samford) & Mercer (more sacks than Wofford) in the latter half of the season, you may be on to something, IF we say *in the last 2 months of the season* instead.



SACKS BY
G
No.
Yards


1.
Furman
8
22
138


2.
Samford
8
21
144


3.
Mercer
8
15
114


4.
Wofford
8
13
76



*In-Conference games only - the most “fair & balanced” metric

[Reign of Terrier]

Newest from Coach Conklin: Wofford will aim to throw the ball 20-25 times per game this year (Coach Lang has the specific number of 21). Source: https://sportstalksc.com/index.php/2018/08/13/sportstalk-palmetto-pigskin-tour-stop-4-wofford-college-audio/

Point of reference for what this means for the Terriers. Here's how much we've passed per game over the last few seasons:

2017: 12
2016: <9
2015: <10
2014: 10.3
2013: 12.4
2012: <7
2011: 9

[Reign of Terrier]

You know, since Chatt did play Furman (more sacks than Samford) & Mercer (more sacks than Wofford) in the latter half of the season, you may be on to something, IF we say *in the last 2 months of the season* instead.



SACKS BY
G
No.
Yards


1.
Furman
8
22
138


2.
Samford
8
21
144


3.
Mercer
8
15
114


4.
Wofford
8
13
76



*In-Conference games only - the most “fair & balanced” metric

Rookie mistake: If we're hypothesizing that Chatt improved at the end of the season, that would account for the different outcome in the final stats. In the grand scheme of things 1-2 sacks isn't really a huge difference. If Chatt played terrible in games A&B (Furman/Mercer in the middle of the season) and then improved for games C&D (Wofford and Samford in the back end), then the fact that Samford or Wofford didn't match the total yearly sack outcomes for Mercer and Furman attests to that hypothesis.

Having said that, I haven't looked at the actual numbers in like 9 months so I can't say for sure. I do remember that the sheer volume of sacks that they gave up decreased at the end of the season. Either way, the fact that furman finished with 1 more sack than Samford and Mercer with 2 more than Wofford doesn't say they were that much better.

[FUBeAR]

Rookie mistake: If we're hypothesizing that Chatt improved at the end of the season, that would account for the different outcome in the final stats. In the grand scheme of things 1-2 sacks isn't really a huge difference. If Chatt played terrible in games A&B (Furman/Mercer in the middle of the season) and then improved for games C&D (Wofford and Samford in the back end), then the fact that Samford or Wofford didn't match the total yearly sack outcomes for Mercer and Furman attests to that hypothesis.

Having said that, I haven't looked at the actual numbers in like 9 months so I can't say for sure. I do remember that the sheer volume of sacks that they gave up decreased at the end of the season. Either way, the fact that furman finished with 1 more sack than Samford and Mercer with 2 more than Wofford doesn't say they were that much better.

No worries.

I accept your apology for attempting to intimate that Samford’s & Wofford’s front 7’s on D were far superior in generating Sacks to those of Furman & Mercer, which Chatt had faced prior to November.

It’s all good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Rookie mistake: If we're hypothesizing that Chatt improved at the end of the season, that would account for the different outcome in the final stats. In the grand scheme of things 1-2 sacks isn't really a huge difference. If Chatt played terrible in games A&B (Furman/Mercer in the middle of the season) and then improved for games C&D (Wofford and Samford in the back end), then the fact that Samford or Wofford didn't match the total yearly sack outcomes for Mercer and Furman attests to that hypothesis.

Having said that, I haven't looked at the actual numbers in like 9 months so I can't say for sure. I do remember that the sheer volume of sacks that they gave up decreased at the end of the season. Either way, the fact that furman finished with 1 more sack than Samford and Mercer with 2 more than Wofford doesn't say they were that much better.

The numbers would be slightly skewed against Wofford, of course. Wofford's defense doesn't have to play its offense, who runs the ball 50-60 times a game, thereby reducing the number of sack opportunities the other conference teams would have.

[PaladinFan]

Newest from Coach Conklin: Wofford will aim to throw the ball 20-25 times per game this year (Coach Lang has the specific number of 21). Source: https://sportstalksc.com/index.php/2018/08/13/sportstalk-palmetto-pigskin-tour-stop-4-wofford-college-audio/

Point of reference for what this means for the Terriers. Here's how much we've passed per game over the last few seasons:

2017: 12
2016: <9
2015: <10
2014: 10.3
2013: 12.4
2012: <7
2011: 9

Well, that will be an experiment, I guess. I don't see how that is going to be a good thing for Wofford in 2018.

I think modernizing the offense is a good idea, but I'm not sure they have the personnel to do it this season.

[FUBeAR]

ETSU Roster 'Churn' ???

In updating my roster spreadsheet, I had originally 'picked up' last year's roster for ETSU. So, when they updated their online roster recently, I updated mine...and it seemed like a lot of names were missing. So, I removed the 7 Sr. & R-Sr's and compared 2017 to 2018 Rosters for the Bucs.

It appears they had 36 Players from last year's roster, with eligibility remaining, decide not to return for 2018 (List is below). Even though they are just emerging from 'start-up world' and had a Head Coaching change in the off-season, losing 36 Players seems HUGE to me. Looks like they have 28 new FR on the roster and 6 new Transfers, so, they, essentially, replaced the number of bodies, but I'm wondering about experience, Leadership (14 'would-be' Sr's), and Team Chemistry. Those things can't readily be replaced, IMO, with Freshmen & Transfers.

What do y'all think? Any Bucs fans 'auditing' this thread have any insight to the cause and the expected impact?



NO.
FNAME
LNAME
POS.
HT.
WT.
YR.
HOMETOWN (PREVIOUS SCHOOL)


39
Stephen (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9312/stephen-antonelli/)
Antonelli
TE
6' 3"
226
RJr.
Clinton, Tenn. (Clinton HS)


8
River (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9279/river-boruff/)
Boruff
LB
6' 2"
228
RJr.
Sparta, Tenn. (White County HS)


52
Spencer (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9322/spencer-brien/)
Brien
LB
6' 0"
225
RJr.
Gatlinburg, Tenn. (Gatlinburg-Pittman HS)


12
Cameron (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9410/cameron-butler/)
Butler
DB
5' 11"
175
Jr.
Millington, Tenn. (Brighton HS)


93
Keilend (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9400/keilend-clayton/)
Clayton
DL
6' 2"
309
Fr.
Pinson, Ala. (Clay-Chalkville HS)


76
Cody (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9341/cody-cornelius/)
Cornelius
OL
6' 6"
287
Jr.
Harrogate, Tenn. (Cumberland Gap HS)


83
Joe (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9352/joe-defatta/)
DeFatta
K/P
5' "
176
RJr.
Franklin, Tenn. (MTSU)


63
Dakota (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9330/dakota-finger/)
Finger
DL
6' 0"
259
RFr.
Boone, N.C. (Watauga HS)


27
Zayquan (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9419/zayquan-gillespie/)
Gillespie
DB
6' 0"
180
Fr.
Gatlinburg, Tenn. (Gatlinburg-Pittman HS)


41
James (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9301/james-gowen-iii/)
Gowen III
RB
5' 10"
197
So.
Charlotte, N.C. (Olympics HS)


53
Chei (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9404/thomas-henderson/)
Hill
DE/LB
6' 1"
240
Fr.
Homestead, Fla. (South Dade HS)


43
Austin (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9314/austin-howard/)
Howard
LB
6' 2"
224
RFr.
Knoxville, Tenn. (Carter HS)


23
Charlie (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9296/charlie-jackson/)
Jackson
DB
6' 2"
192
RSo.
Christiansburg, Va. (Christiansburg HS)


47
Jibrell (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9392/jibrell-jackson/)
Jackson
FB
5' 10"
266
Fr.
LaGrange, Ga. (Callaway HS)


16
Conner (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9414/conner-johnson/)
Johnson
WR
6' 2"
180
Fr.
Johnson City, Tenn. (Elizabethton HS)


55
Devon (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9325/devon-johnson/)
Johnson
DL
6' 3"
267
RSo.
Alpharetta, Ga. (Alpharetta HS)


61
Isaiah (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9396/isaiah-jones/)
Jones
OL
6' 4"
319
Fr.
Clemmons, N.C. (West Forsyth HS)


44
Jack (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9316/jack-jones/)
Jones
LB
6' 1"
216
RJr.
Bristol, Tenn (Tennessee HS)


42
Brandon (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9428/brandon-mccray/)
McCray
DB
6' 2"
190
Fr.
West Chester, Ohio (Lakota West HS)


75
Patrick (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9340/patrick-mcfall/)
McFall
OL
6' 6"
277
RJr.
Knoxville, Tenn. (Knox Catholic HS)


81
Adam (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9297/adam-mitchell/)
Mitchell
TE
6' 3"
210
RSo.
Bristol, Tenn. (Tennessee HS)


33
Tony (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9308/tony-mitchell/)
Mitchell
DB
5' 11"
187
So.
Robertsdale, Ala. (Spanish Fort HS)


74
Robert (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9398/robert-murphy/)
Murphy
DL
6' 2"
250
Fr.
Chattanooga, Tenn. (Carson-Newman)


92
Joe (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9357/joe-pittman/)
Pittman
LB
6' 5"
247
RSo.
Pell City, Ala. (Pell City HS (UAB))


9
Drake (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9280/drake-powell/)
Powell
WR
6' 2"
200
Jr.
Clinton, Tenn. (Clinton HS)


11
Trey (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9323/trey-quillin/)
Quillin
LB
6' 2"
235
RJr.
New Albany, Ohio (New Albany HS)


36
Blake (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9434/blake-rodgers/)
Rodgers
RB
6' 1"
223
RFr.
Kingsport, Tenn. (Dobyns-Bennett HS)


19
Nick (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9290/nick-sexton/)
Sexton
QB
6' 3"
204
RJr.
Seymour, Tenn. (Seymour HS)


6
Jajuan (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9277/jajuan-stinson/)
Stinson
RB
5' 9"
186
RJr.
Knoxville, Tenn. (Knox Central HS)


18
Malik (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9289/malik-styles/)
Styles
WR
5' 10"
176
RJr.
Dandridge, Tenn. (Jefferson County, HS)


36
Donovan (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9424/donovan-swinger/)
Swinger
LB
6' 1"
205
Fr.
Anderson, S.C. (T.L. Hanna HS)


43
Hunter (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9429/hunter-thomas/)
Thomas
RB
6' 0"
190
Fr.
Pulaski, Va. (Pulaski County HS)


12
Dylan (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9284/dylan-wieger/)
Wieger
QB
6' 3"
235
RSo.
Kingsport, Tenn. (Sullivan South HS)


80
Hunter (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9345/hunter-wike/)
Wike
WR
6' 2"
189
RJr.
Canton, N.C. (Pisgah HS)


16
Ja'Vonte (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9287/javonte-williams/)
Williams
DB
5' 11"
171
So.
Cincinnati, Ohio (Mount Healthy HS)


82
Caleb (http://www.etsubucs.com/football/roster/2017-18/9346/caleb-woody/)
Woody
WR
6' 2"
192
RFr.
Maryville, Tenn. (Alcoa HS)

[SU DOG]

I count about 10 RJr players on there. These guys are often finished with their academic side and graduating, so I always hold my breath, so to speak, checking the new roster for them. Usually, however, we have only a few that don't return -certainly never 10. This, 36 total is an incredible amount of loss it seems to me. UNBELIEVABLE!

[PaladinFan]

ETSU didn't run the ball much, but Stinson was the Bucs second leading rusher.

[FUBeAR]

You could make the case that the OL improved *in the last month of the season* just pull up the sack stats and control for the level of the front 7 that played (Samford, Wofford)So, ignoring the 'assumption' that I believe you posited here - that SU and WC have superior Front 7's on D than the rest of the SoCon in terms of Sack generation, I did get curious around the question of whether or not Chatt improved in PassPro as the season progressed...so I did some cipherin' on the matter...



Rank
Team
G
# of Sacks by
Yards
# vs. UTC
# less vs. UTC
"Expected" #
Expected - Actual vs. UTC
Order of Play
% vs. Expected


8
VMI
8
12
82
1
11
1.57
0.57
1
64%


4
WCU
8
13
90
7
6
0.86
-6.14
2
817%


1
Furman
8
22
138
3
19
2.71
-0.29
3
111%


3
Mercer
8
15
114
3
12
1.71
-1.29
4
175%


6
CIT
8
13
77
1
12
1.71
0.71
5
58%


2
Samford
8
21
144
3
18
2.57
-0.43
6
117%


7
Wofford
8
13
76
2
11
1.57
-0.43
7
127%


5
ETSU
8
13
81
4
9
1.29
-2.71
8
311%


* Note1 - While Wofford, ETSU, WCU, and CIT were all tied in # of Sacks, I used Total Yd's of the Sacks as the 'tie-breaker.' That's how Wofford is ranked #7, just ahead of VMI.
* Note2 - As the topic of this is Chatt's Sacks surrendered, the Mocs are omitted from the table above. They were last in the SoCon with 8 Total Sacks for 52 yards.

So, we can graph this...with a trendline...Less Sacks surrendered is better, so we can see that Chatt did improve over the course of the season, but if we look at the last 3 games, we see those are trending in the wrong direction. How can that be if the (linear) trend line is moving in the right direction overall? Well, there's obviously 1 BIG "Outlier" game in there - WCU. Chatt gave up more Sacks to WCU in that game (7) than the Catamounts' D had in their other 7 Conference games...COMBINED (6). So...let's take another look at the next graph down...

https://s8.postimg.cc/j99dsvbb9/Chatt_Sacks_Surrendered_2017.jpg

For the sake of simplicity, I just removed the "Outlier" WCU game...I'm sure YT can make it much more complicated.

https://s8.postimg.cc/b3rbuzi05/Chatt_Sacks_Surrendered_2017_WCU_removed.jpg

...and if we look at the (linear) Trend now, it certainly did NOT move in the 'right direction.' It started pretty well with VMI, but then rose over the next 2 SoCon games. They 'recovered' vs. El Cid, but then continued to rise again in the final 3 games...the last month of the season. We can see that in the 1st graph, but removing the "Outlier" makes it very clear.

I was actually surprised to see this, because I, like YT, thought Chatt's O-Line improved after the mid-point of the season. Maybe they did in run-blocking, but PassPro continued to be 'not good' and was very ineffective vs. ETSU in their final game. I believe they will be better this year.

(OK YT, go ahead and start RIPPING this analysis apart. Enjoy!)

[PaladinFan]

I count about 10 RJr players on there. These guys are often finished with their academic side and graduating, so I always hold my breath, so to speak, checking the new roster for them. Usually, however, we have only a few that don't return -certainly never 10. This, 36 total is an incredible amount of loss it seems to me. UNBELIEVABLE!

Wasn’t this the first “senior” class for ETSU’s restart? My memory is Mercer had 30-35 roster casualties as their first group graduated (I think).

[FUBeAR]

Wasn’t this the first “senior” class for ETSU’s restart? My memory is Mercer had 30-35 roster casualties as their first group graduated (I think).
Mercer’s rosters since 2013 are posted on their website. Feel free to slice/dice as your heart desires OR you could review the 9,876,391 posts that you made predicting that Mercer, most likely, would be unable to field a Team in 2017, due to the number of Players departing...well, technically, GRADUATING.

”Roster casualties”...interesting phrasing. In Mercer’s case, some might say “Recent College Graduates who had completed their NCAA eligibility,” instead.

Have at it. Remember to remove all SR’s & R-SR’s from your analysis & report your findings.

Watermelons to kumquats, sir (as I know that you know), but a bold besmirching effort on your part, nonetheless.

[PaladinFan]

Mercer’s rosters since 2013 are posted on their website. Feel free to slice/dice as your heart desires OR you could review the 9,876,391 posts that you made predicting that Mercer, most likely, would be unable to field a Team in 2017, due to the number of Players departing...well, technically, GRADUATING.

”Roster casualties”...interesting phrasing. In Mercer’s case, some might say “Recent College Graduates who had completed their NCAA eligibility,” instead.

Have at it. Remember to remove all SR’s & R-SR’s from your analysis & report your findings.

Watermelons to kumquats, sir (as I know that you know), but a bold besmirching effort on your part, nonetheless.

Or "Roster churn" as you put it?

I never said Mercer (or ETSU) couldn't field a team, just that 30+ losses is significant from a depth standpoint. Unless there's a team that basically runs one platoon for four quarters (I've yet to really see one), depth matters.

[FUBeAR]

Or "Roster churn" as you put it?

I never said Mercer (or ETSU) couldn't field a team, just that 30+ losses is significant from a depth standpoint. Unless there's a team that basically runs one platoon for four quarters (I've yet to really see one), depth matters.

Nevermind - I did it for you...apples to apples...and the answer is 10. Actually, it really could be 9 as Seth Hattaway was not a FR in 2016. He was actually a Mercer "Day1" and started in 2012, but he returned from his Mormon Mission in 2016. The NCAA 'stops the clock' for those though...so, he did not complete his 5 years (to play 4) of eligibility. So, he 'coulda' played in 2017 as a married 23 year old, graduated, 5th Team WR. I'll give him a pass on passing up his final 2 years.



#
FULL NAME
POS.
HT.
WT
YR
LTR
HOMETOWN
HIGH SCHOOL
PREVIOUS SCHOOL


69
Hudson Brett (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=708)
DL
6' 4"
230
R-Fr.
0
Gray, Ga.
Mount de Sales Academy



49
Jake Brooks (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=709)
LB
6' 2"
224
R-Fr.
0
Thomson, Ga.
Thomson H.S.



19
Julian Burris (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=714)
WR
5' 10"
186
Jr.
0
Marietta, Ga.
Kell H.S.
Butler CC


42
Seth Hattaway (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2518)
DB
6' 1"
195
Fr.*
0
Macon, Ga.
Mount de Sales HS



83
Tres Hattaway (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2519)
WR
6' 1"
180
Fr.
0
Macon, Ga.
Mount de Sales HS



12
Michael Haynes (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=731)
QB
6' 0"
199
R-Jr.
2
Sugar Hill, Ga.
North Gwinnett HS



26
Jeremy James (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=737)
DB
5' 9"
175
Jr.
2
Flowery Branch, Ga.
Flowery Branch HS



74
David Raschen (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=762)
OL
6' 5"
302
R-Jr.
2
Newnan, Ga.
Newnan HS



63
Stanley Smith (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=769)
OL
6' 3"
288
R-Fr.
0
Opelika, Ala.
Opelika H.S.



56
Nick Thompson (https://mercerbears.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2532)
LB
5' 11"
190
Fr.
0
Roswell, Ga.
Fellowship Christian HS



NOTE1: Of these 10 young men, only Jeremy James ever saw any significant playing time for Mercer. He was a starting CB.
NOTE2: I'm confident over half of these 10 were not "Recruited Student Athletes" as defined by the NCAA
NOTE3: Both Haynes and Raschen, the only R-JR's on the list graduated from Mercer in the Spring of 2017.

So 10...or 9...or 10...can be classified as Mercer's "Roster Churn"..... 36 is still a whole lot greater than 10. Correct?

Thus, your disingenuous attempt to compare the ETSU situation with the Mercer situation is a BIG FAIL!

[Milktruck74]

So, ignoring the 'assumption' that I believe you posited here - that SU and WC have superior Front 7's on D than the rest of the SoCon in terms of Sack generation, I did get curious around the question of whether or not Chatt improved in PassPro as the season progressed...so I did some cipherin' on the matter...



Rank
Team
G
# of Sacks by
Yards
# vs. UTC
# less vs. UTC
"Expected" #
Expected - Actual vs. UTC
Order of Play
% vs. Expected


8
VMI
8
12
82
1
11
1.57
0.57
1
64%


4
WCU
8
13
90
7
6
0.86
-6.14
2
817%


1
Furman
8
22
138
3
19
2.71
-0.29
3
111%


3
Mercer
8
15
114
3
12
1.71
-1.29
4
175%


6
CIT
8
13
77
1
12
1.71
0.71
5
58%


2
Samford
8
21
144
3
18
2.57
-0.43
6
117%


7
Wofford
8
13
76
2
11
1.57
-0.43
7
127%


5
ETSU
8
13
81
4
9
1.29
-2.71
8
311%


* Note1 - While Wofford, ETSU, WCU, and CIT were all tied in # of Sacks, I used Total Yd's of the Sacks as the 'tie-breaker.' That's how Wofford is ranked #7, just ahead of VMI.
* Note2 - As the topic of this is Chatt's Sacks surrendered, the Mocs are omitted from the table above. They were last in the SoCon with 8 Total Sacks for 52 yards.

So, we can graph this...with a trendline...Less Sacks surrendered is better, so we can see that Chatt did improve over the course of the season, but if we look at the last 3 games, we see those are trending in the wrong direction. How can that be if the (linear) trend line is moving in the right direction overall? Well, there's obviously 1 BIG "Outlier" game in there - WCU. Chatt gave up more Sacks to WCU in that game (7) than the Catamounts' D had in their other 7 Conference games...COMBINED (6). So...let's take another look at the next graph down...

https://s8.postimg.cc/j99dsvbb9/Chatt_Sacks_Surrendered_2017.jpg

For the sake of simplicity, I just removed the "Outlier" WCU game...I'm sure YT can make it much more complicated.

https://s8.postimg.cc/b3rbuzi05/Chatt_Sacks_Surrendered_2017_WCU_removed.jpg

...and if we look at the (linear) Trend now, it certainly did NOT move in the 'right direction.' It started pretty well with VMI, but then rose over the next 2 SoCon games. They 'recovered' vs. El Cid, but then continued to rise again in the final 3 games...the last month of the season. We can see that in the 1st graph, but removing the "Outlier" makes it very clear.

I was actually surprised to see this, because I, like YT, thought Chatt's O-Line improved after the mid-point of the season. Maybe they did in run-blocking, but PassPro continued to be 'not good' and was very ineffective vs. ETSU in their final game. I believe they will be better this year.

(OK YT, go ahead and start RIPPING this analysis apart. Enjoy!)


While the Math Nerds do the whole Money Ball thing to determine if the Mocs O-Line actually improved...I prefer the eyeball test....and competitiveness. Sacks was only one metric, 3 and outs were probably more detrimental to the team than sacks (albeit difficult to convert a 3rd and 24, after a big sack, so sacks have some bearing on the 3 and out issue))....The Mocs OL couldn't move the ball in the first part of the season. As it went on, they were able to start moving the ball down the field and compete with other teams. And since we have two charts above that show the OL IMPROVED as the season went on, and DIND NOT IMPROVE as the season went on...I'll end by saying there are Liars, Damn Liars, and then there are STATISTICIANS.