Patriot or Northeast? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

[DFW HOYA]

(Records for 2017 in parentheses)

Patriot
Colgate (7-4)
Lehigh (5-7, first round playoff loss to Stony Brook, 59-29)
Holy Cross (4-7)
Fordham (4-7)
Bucknell (5-6)
Lafayette (3-8)
Georgetown (1-10)

NEC
Central Connecticut (8-4, first round playoff loss to UNH, 14-0)
Duquesne (7-4)
Bryant (6-5)
St Francis PA (5-6)
Wagner (4-7)
Sacred Heart (4-7)
Robert Morris (2-9)

[RichH2]

To accomplish what exactly? As conferences I dont expect either to progress..NEC has some solid advantages. No AI. More definite funding than PL's rather odd schollie rules. Altho, it may well be given recent changes, coaches have more access to need aid than in prior years. Also, NEC has lower tuition costs overall.
I would cite PL's reputation as an advantage. Academically for sure. Football? Well whatever rep we had died an inglorious death over the last 5 years.
Dont know enough about NEC to gauge which teams will improve. I expect Dukes and St.Francis will be better.
As a whole I expect most PL squads will be better this coming season as the last few years recruiting classes develop. Records may not show much in W-L OOC results but games likely will be more competitive.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Better positioned for what?

1st round exit in the playoffs???

[PAllen]

NEC

[UNHWildcat18]

Better positioned for what?

1st round exit in the playoffs???

knocked out by yours truly xlolx

really though, best post I’ve seen in weeks

[RichH2]

Oh, this is gonna be a painful thread.xdrunkyx xviolinx xnodx

[JacksFan40]

Both will get knocked out in 1st Round, NEC’s game will be closer though. So I guess the NEC is better?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Both will get knocked out in 1st Round, NEC’s game will be closer though. So I guess the NEC is better?

The PL has actually had some reasonable playoff success this decade while the NEC has 1 postseason win in their history. Granted, it did come against the PL...lol.

The PL still has a higher ceiling do to history, facilities and funding. But, the NEC has been more aggressive with transfers and has had better coaching. This is a really big year for the PL imo. If they don't turn it around I could see the "higherer ups" grumbling. The NEC also needs to get over the hump a bit nationally.

[PAllen]

The PL has actually had some reasonable playoff success this decade while the NEC has 1 postseason win in their history. Granted, it did come against the PL...lol.

The PL still has a higher ceiling do to history, facilities and funding. But, the NEC has been more aggressive with transfers and has had better coaching. This is a really big year for the PL imo. If they don't turn it around I could see the "higherer ups" grumbling. The NEC also needs to get over the hump a bit nationally.

Right now: The PL could be better, the NEC is better.

[KPSUL]

I don't have any valid means to compare the conferences from top to bottom; however, I think that Colgate should be the best team from either the PL or NEC this season.

[JacksFan40]

I don't have any valid means to compare the conferences from top to bottom; however, I think that Colgate should be the best team from either the PL or NEC this season.
I don’t know, Sacred Heart sure is looking intimidating.

[PAllen]

I don’t know, Sacred Heart sure is looking intimidating.

The sad thing is, from a PL perspective, that statement is correct.

[Little Stevie]

CCSU might have beat UNH in playoffs,had 1st string QB been in there.

[Lehigh'98]

The Patriot League is as bad as it has been since the mid 90s.

[KPSUL]

I don’t know, Sacred Heart sure is looking intimidating.

Excellent point! Coming off their 4-7 2017 season and having lost 60% of both their offensive and defensive productivity, I don't know how I overlooked the Pioneers!

[Bluefish845]

xpeacexxthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupx
I don’t know, Sacred Heart sure is looking intimidating.

[Go Green]

Better positioned for what?


Any good head-on games between the conferences that would give one of them a semblance of bragging rights over the other?

[Go Green]

I don’t know, Sacred Heart sure is looking intimidating.

Any team that consistently takes Dartmouth down to the wire should be intimidating.

[Fordham]

tip of the cap to DFW for trolling his conference

[UAalum72]

Any good head-on games between the conferences that would give one of them a semblance of bragging rights over the other?
Six games total

9/1 St. Francis U at Lehigh, Lafayette at Sacred Heart
9/8 Sacred Heart at Bucknell
9/22 Central Connecticut at Fordham
9/29 CCSU at Lafayette
10/20 Bryant at Fordham

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Six games total

9/1 St. Francis U at Lehigh, Lafayette at Sacred Heart
9/8 Sacred Heart at Bucknell
9/22 Central Connecticut at Fordham
9/29 CCSU at Lafayette
10/20 Bryant at Fordham

I could see a sweep in either direction. Nearly toss up games with the PL teams having home field advantage for the most part.

If Lehigh loses to St. Francis (entirely possible if Lehigh's defense still sucks) there will be mutiny. 0-3 or worse again.....

[Gangtackle11]

I could see a sweep in either direction. Nearly toss up games with the PL teams having home field advantage for the most part.

If Lehigh loses to St. Francis (entirely possible if Lehigh's defense still sucks) there will be mutiny. 0-3 or worse again.....

Lehigh has given Nova a game the past 2 seasons. Certainly can’t overlook them since we haven’t put up 40 on them either game. (Nova offense is pedestrian)

[cx500d]

Lehigh has given Nova a game the past 2 seasons. Certainly can’t overlook them since we haven’t put up 40 on them either game. (Nova offense is pedestrian)

I’d love to see that game. Lehigh O against Nova D


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[DFW HOYA]

Not trolling either conference--the PL is better positioned but the NEC has clearly made strides that would not have been predicted on these pages even a decade ago, and with 25% fewer grants than the PL offers.

In the end, the NEC is what it is, and that's the extent of what it will be. In year five of scholarships, I'm not sure the PL knows what it is positioned to be.

[RichH2]

Not trolling either conference--the PL is better positioned but the NEC has clearly made strides that would not have been predicted on these pages even a decade ago, and with 25% fewer grants than the PL offers.

In the end, the NEC is what it is, and that's the extent of what it will be. In year five of scholarships, I'm not sure the PL knows what it is positioned to be.

Pretty accurate picture of both currently. Caveat tho. NEC can also give need aid up to NCAA max of 63. Last yr PL repealed its limit of need aid to 3 true WOs. Now we can now apparently offer need aid to recruited WOs also.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I don't have any valid means to compare the conferences from top to bottom; however, I think that Colgate should be the best team from either the PL or NEC this season.


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28158&stc=1.........AH DO!......OVERAH LAST SEVEN YEARS........SIX DIFFERENT NEC SQWADS.......HAVE EACH WON......DUH CONFERENCE BLING!.....AN' COOD BE UH 3 TA 4 TEAM RACE....DIS SEASON.......DOUGH CCSU.....LOSTS LOTS UH DEFENSE.........IN PATRIOT LEAGUE.......IT'LL COME DOWN TA........HARE vs TORTOISE......HIGH FLYIN' OFFENSE.....AGIN DUH MO' STEADY.......BOTH SIDE UH BALL.....COLGATE.........AH'D CONCUR.......WHIFF YER....OPINE......COLGATE.....BETWEEN DUH TWO CONFERENCES........HOWEVERAH......PRETTY LIKELY.........CAA.........ENDS......DUH FUN......FOR...BOTH CHAMPS..........PER LAST YEAR............BRAWK!

[GreenGlasses]

The last school to be relevant in either conference was 15 years ago. And well we all should know what happened in the 2003 title game. The only shutout in IAA championship game history. Enough said.

[Bill]

The last school to be relevant in either conference was 15 years ago. And well we all should know what happened in the 2003 title game. The only shutout in IAA championship game history. Enough said.

Now who's trolling? That's not a fair or accurate statement. Obviously, "relevant" is a subjective term...but I suggest that a trip to the national quarterfinals qualifies as relevant. Colgate did so in 2015...Lehigh in 2011.

[UNHWildcat18]

CCSU is going to go 2-0 vs the PL this year

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Now who's trolling? That's not a fair or accurate statement. Obviously, "relevant" is a subjective term...but I suggest that a trip to the national quarterfinals qualifies as relevant. Colgate did so in 2015...Lehigh in 2011.

Seriously, Lehigh finished 5th/6th in Final 2011 polls and had the Payton runner-up. Colgate beat 2 CAA teams in 2015 en-route to the quarterfinals. I'd also toss 2013 Fordham as being nationally relevant as well. Even Lehigh spent a good chunk of 2012 in the Top 10 before suffering their lone loss of the year in November.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm not sure anyone in the PL other than Colgate or Lehigh would make a I-AA list like this.

https://www.samford.edu/sports-analytics/fans/relevance-rankings/

[RichH2]

Probably so for now. Optimistic that PL has finally figured out recruiting. Expect we will improve. Realize that I hold a minority opinion :). The regulatory obstacles remain limiting any consistent PL wide advances. That said I believe that the top 2 or 3 teams can and will be relevant nationally.

[Seahawks Fan]

November, 2012 FCS Playoffs:

https://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/11/wagner_colleges_win_over_colga.html

[RichH2]

November, 2012 FCS Playoffs:

https://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/11/wagner_colleges_win_over_colga.html

An epic W for Wagner and NEC back in '12. Both NEC and PL are capable of having a year with a champion that can occasionally get a playoff W. Will either of us attain any semblance of relevance on a regular basis?

[DFW HOYA]

Probably so for now. Optimistic that PL has finally figured out recruiting. Expect we will improve. Realize that I hold a minority opinion :). The regulatory obstacles remain limiting any consistent PL wide advances. That said I believe that the top 2 or 3 teams can and will be relevant nationally.

Relevance is equal parts "A-I-R": awareness, interest, and results. Lehigh and Colgate have built awareness and some interest outside their base, and if results follow, they can be very relevant. The other schools lack any sustained interest outside their region (yes, even Holy Cross), and the results aren't there.

I too realize that I hold a contrary opinion. An 18-85 record in the PL with no real change in sight will do that.

[Sader87]

Relevance is equal parts "A-I-R": awareness, interest, and results. Lehigh and Colgate have built awareness and some interest outside their base, and if results follow, they can be very relevant. The other schools lack any sustained interest outside their region (yes, even Holy Cross), and the results aren't there.

I too realize that I hold a contrary opinion. An 18-85 record in the PL with no real change in sight will do that.

I think Holy Cross football probably would be higher in terms of relevance than most, if not all, of the other PL football schools.

Caveat being, most of the people who are/were aware of HC football are aging fast :)

Reason I'd say that is Holy Cross, along with Colgate, has played D1 football uninterrupted since at least WW2. HC football was followed by major media outlets (Boston papers, TV stations etc) moreso than Colgate football was followed in the day. Colgate has a very rich and storied football history but its following has been mostly alums and locals from a very unpopulated part of NY state. Like Colgate, Holy Cross has a long history of playing the Ivies etc etc etc

Again, to anyone undah 40 or so, HC football wouldn't stir memories for most but for those already collecting Social Security, I think you'd find more people in the Northeast and elsewhere who are aware or have/had interest in HC football more than any other PL football school.

[DFW HOYA]

Again, to anyone undah 40 or so, HC football wouldn't stir memories for most but for those already collecting Social Security, I think you'd find more people in the Northeast and elsewhere who are aware or have/had interest in HC football more than any other PL football school.

I think you've made the point better than I could. It's not 1979 anymore. If you don't create new memories for today's kids, they'll never have them when they pass it on to the next generation. And if you're not living along the Mass Pike, what do you know about the Crusaders? Very little.

A player in the Missouri Valley or the Big Sky has probably heard of Colgate, and maybe Lehigh. Not Holy Cross.

[cx500d]

I think you've made the point better than I could. It's not 1979 anymore. If you don't create new memories for today's kids, they'll never have them when they pass it on to the next generation. And if you're not living along the Mass Pike, what do you know about the Crusaders? Very little.

A player in the Missouri Valley or the Big Sky has probably heard of Colgate, and maybe Lehigh. Not Holy Cross.

Holy cross? Is that the place by WPI? Btw, I much prefer Colgate over Crest.


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[cx500d]

Ok I’m just trolling. I like watching Colgate and Holy cross.... Lehigh too.


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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think Holy Cross football probably would be higher in terms of relevance than most, if not all, of the other PL football schools.

Caveat being, most of the people who are/were aware of HC football are aging fast :)

Reason I'd say that is Holy Cross, along with Colgate, has played D1 football uninterrupted since at least WW2. HC football was followed by major media outlets (Boston papers, TV stations etc) moreso than Colgate football was followed in the day. Colgate has a very rich and storied football history but its following has been mostly alums and locals from a very unpopulated part of NY state. Like Colgate, Holy Cross has a long history of playing the Ivies etc etc etc

Again, to anyone undah 40 or so, HC football wouldn't stir memories for most but for those already collecting Social Security, I think you'd find more people in the Northeast and elsewhere who are aware or have/had interest in HC football more than any other PL football school.

Lehigh an Lafayette have a ton of recognition nationally because of their rivalry. That game has been noted nationally for over a century. It will continue to get mention every November by major media outlets until football is disbanded.

I get HC's history and their Catholic roots in the Northeast. But the fact is they haven't done anything worth a damn in football for over 25 years. That's on them. That has nothing to do with the PL. They had some momentum going with Randolph but couldn't sustain it. Once again that's on them.

Colgate has two Payton Award winners, a national finals appearance and numerous playoff appearances. They've also spent a good number of weeks ranked the last 20 years or so.

Lehigh has been the winningest program in the PL during its history. They've had 3 undefeated regular seasons, seven 10 plus win seasons and 5 other 8+ win seasons since '98. They've also had a Payton Runner-Up in 2011 and Lembo won the Eddie Robinson Award in 2001. Lehigh also had national success in the early days of 1-AA before they joined the PL. They are one of the most successful programs in FCS and easily one of the best without a national title.

Lehigh and Colgate have made their mark in 1-AA and FCS over an extended period of time. They're the only ones to do it. Fordham to their credit is closing in on 15-20 years of good football overall.

Georgetown is the one school with true brand recognition but their football issues have been discussed at nauseam.

[Go...gate]

November, 2012 FCS Playoffs:

https://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/11/wagner_colleges_win_over_colga.html

Yep. You beat us fair and square. That was a fine Wagner team!

[Go...gate]

I think Holy Cross football probably would be higher in terms of relevance than most, if not all, of the other PL football schools.

Caveat being, most of the people who are/were aware of HC football are aging fast :)

Reason I'd say that is Holy Cross, along with Colgate, has played D1 football uninterrupted since at least WW2. HC football was followed by major media outlets (Boston papers, TV stations etc) moreso than Colgate football was followed in the day. Colgate has a very rich and storied football history but its following has been mostly alums and locals from a very unpopulated part of NY state. Like Colgate, Holy Cross has a long history of playing the Ivies etc etc etc

Again, to anyone undah 40 or so, HC football wouldn't stir memories for most but for those already collecting Social Security, I think you'd find more people in the Northeast and elsewhere who are aware or have/had interest in HC football more than any other PL football school.

Agreed.

[RichH2]

Tradition as 87 eloquently stated is much different for alumni and students. The logic applies just as aptly to the PL. I fondly remember the late 90s thru mid 2000s and view our current situation through that lens. Students and recent alums do not. They have only seen a rather parochial conference with a occasionally interesting title race with no national relevance whatsoever. Are we then really any different now in football than the NEC? No. Our question is whether PL will take the steps necessary to regain a national presence as something better than a 1st round cupcake. Obviously, the first steps must be by individual schools to provide admin support, adequate funding and competent coaching. Those alone will not elevate our conference. PL must also act to modify its self imposed rules to at least in part even the playing field for football nationally. Our academic requirements are what they are and not an issue we should compromise. That said. The AI floor likely will always be with us. I dont see banding as a necessary complement at least in football. PL redshirting rules need to be modified to at least permit a limited number of NCAA redshirts. The PL rule is ,in part, a sop to our Ivy past and a cost saving tool for certain schools. We are no longer the Ivy Lite League and should stop dragging that history with us inasmuch as it serves only to diminish our competitiveness without serving any actual purpose.