Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

[VandalBasher]

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2018-debate-big-sky-southern-conference-cici?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Link

Please add your perspective. I don't have the expertise to discuss either conference.

[FUBeAR]

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2018-debate-big-sky-southern-conference-cici?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Link

Please add your perspective. I don't have the expertise to discuss either conference.It’s very simple, VB...

https://i.imgflip.com/2dkxq2.jpg

[Redbird 4th & short]

good comparison .. IMHO, both conferences seemed to slip a bit the past few years but then re-emerged last year with some depth.

Generally, based only on last year, I think Big Sky is stronger at top with more good teams, but Southern has less weak teams to feast on at bottom. I happen to think EWU will emerge this year as final 4 type team. So I think those factors tip scales in Big Sky's favor heading into this season.

But if I had to guess who's trend line is higher, it seems like Southern is on a nice trajectory .. just a gut feel thing.

[katss07]

The Big Sky. Better overall conference. EWU, Weber and SUU should all be good this year again. NAU was a playoff team. Sac St, UCDavis and Nothern Colorado all seem to be on the rise. Montana should be relevant soon and Idaho is no joke. I’m not saying the SoCon is bad, but outside of Samford who can you count on? Furman needs to show up again this year. Wofford will not be as good as they were this last year again. I just see the BSC as the overall superior conference.

[youcanbankit]

The Socon edges out the Big sky. More NFL players, more coaches who have played, coached and or won at the national championship level in different divisions, and over all more size and speed. Its a close one, but the Socon edges the Big Sky.

[Herder]

The SOCon has some good teams year in year out, but I don’t see elite programs in that league anymore. The BSC does have some historically elite programs, so I’ll give them the nod.

[PaladinNation]

I have only a passing knowledge of EWU and Weber… I will say Weber impressed.
I did watch some of the butt-whooping NAU received at the hands of San Diego, I wasn't impressed.

I would put the SoCon into three buckets

top three
Samford — potential top 5 team needs to show up in the playoffs and get a few wins.
Furman — still a young team but excellent coaching and influx of athletic physical talent.
Mercer — this could be the year that Mercer gets to the playoffs.

question marks
Wofford — Ayers was a legend, how will the new regime navigate a tough SoCon road schedule?
Chattanooga — Talent everywhere, but something was amiss in Arth's first season.
Western — Talent everywhere, maybe too dependent on Adams.

dark horses
The Citadel — Have the talent, can be a scheme matchup nightmare.
ETSU — You can't sleep on the Bucs, new coach lots of talent.

When I break the SoCon teams down this way — the SoCon has eight teams that have a ton of talent, anything could happen in 2018 and not surprise me. The weak link is VMI. I know they have to be included here but they have a long way to go. Speaking of elite teams — the SoCon needs to soon get a team as far as the semis to be included in those conversations again. I see only one realistic SoCon candidate this year — SAMFORD. And the DOGS better get it done this season.

I expect the DINS to take another step this season but FURMAN is still rebuilding — my hope is by 2020 Furman will be able to compete at or near the elite level again.

Would love to see a similar breakdown of the Big Sky.

[cx500d]

I think big sky is on the rise. Seems like some of the teams are a bit erratic however and like the mvfc they feed off each other. I always wonder which version of the team will show up. UCD and ballSAC ST seemed to be poised for something, will see if they show up. Idaho is an unknown but I expect they will be better than people are counting on. EWU, SUU, Weber, NAU should all excel. UM and MSU all were in the rise. GFCC and UNC will all need to hit the weight room and will be the bottom feeders.


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[WestCoastAggie]

In the eyes of voters, the Big Sky is ahead of the SoCon. To me, they're on equal footing.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The difference in the number of teams in each league makes it a bit harder to compare them, imo.

[Milktruck74]

In the eyes of voters, the Big Sky is ahead of the SoCon. To me, they're on equal footing.


61% SoCon Right now.

[Milktruck74]

I have only a passing knowledge of EWU and Weber… I will say Weber impressed.
I did watch some of the butt-whooping NAU received at the hands of San Diego, I wasn't impressed.

I would put the SoCon into three buckets

top three
Samford — potential top 5 team needs to show up in the playoffs and get a few wins.
Furman — still a young team but excellent coaching and influx of athletic physical talent.
Mercer — this could be the year that Mercer gets to the playoffs.

question marks
Wofford — Ayers was a legend, how will the new regime navigate a tough SoCon road schedule?
Chattanooga — Talent everywhere, but something was amiss in Arth's first season.
Western — Talent everywhere, maybe too dependent on Adams.

dark horses
The Citadel — Have the talent, can be a scheme matchup nightmare.
ETSU — You can't sleep on the Bucs, new coach lots of talent.

When I break the SoCon teams down this way — the SoCon has eight teams that have a ton of talent, anything could happen in 2018 and not surprise me. The weak link is VMI. I know they have to be included here but they have a long way to go. Speaking of elite teams — the SoCon needs to soon get a team as far as the semis to be included in those conversations again. I see only one realistic SoCon candidate this year — SAMFORD. And the DOGS better get it done this season.

I expect the DINS to take another step this season but FURMAN is still rebuilding — my hope is by 2020 Furman will be able to compete at or near the elite level again.

Would love to see a similar breakdown of the Big Sky.

These three teams will basically determine the value of the SoCon. If they emerge and win the ones they are suppose to, and win some OOC games....the conference will look good....if not, we will probably be a 2 bid league in November.

[VandalBasher]

Southern Opponent Breakdown
6 vs. Big South
2 vs. Colonial
1 vs. Ivy
2 vs. Ohio Valley
1 vs. Patriot
1 vs. Pioneer
10 vs. FBS
4 vs. Lower Class Opponents (Div-II, Div-III or NAIA)

Big Sky Opponent Breakdown
6 vs. Big Sky, these games come from three head-to-head match-ups
1 vs. Ivy
8 vs. Missouri Valley
1 vs. Northeast
2 vs. Pioneer
2 vs. Southland
1 vs. Southwestern
1 vs. FCS Independent
15 vs. FBS
5 vs. Lower Class Opponents (Div-II, Div-III or NAIA)

[UpstateBison]

The Socon edges out the Big sky. More NFL players, more coaches who have played, coached and or won at the national championship level in different divisions, and over all more size and speed. Its a close one, but the Socon edges the Big Sky.

So when is the SoCon going to have a team make it to the Semi’s?


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[Milktruck74]

Southern Opponent Breakdown
6 vs. Big South
2 vs. Colonial
1 vs. Ivy
2 vs. Ohio Valley
1 vs. Patriot
1 vs. Pioneer
10 vs. FBS
4 vs. Lower Class Opponents (Div-II, Div-III or NAIA)

Big Sky Opponent Breakdown
6 vs. Big Sky, these games come from three head-to-head match-ups
1 vs. Ivy
8 vs. Missouri Valley
1 vs. Northeast
2 vs. Pioneer
2 vs. Southland
1 vs. Southwestern
1 vs. FCS Independent
15 vs. FBS
5 vs. Lower Class Opponents (Div-II, Div-III or NAIA)


This doesn't make sense to me....How are you considering Head to Head games within conference an OOC game? I took a few to the head, but isn't that a conference match up?

[Sandlapper Spike]

The Big Sky has a few matchups this year between league teams that aren't conference games. I guess that is the nature of having rivalries within a super-sized conference.

It isn't just the Big Sky. Wake Forest and North Carolina weren't scheduled to meet in ACC play between 2015 and 2022, so the two schools scheduled a couple of games that won't count as conference games (in 2019 and 2021).

[PaladinFan]

So when is the SoCon going to have a team make it to the Semi’s?


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You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.

[Bisonoline]

You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.

What does that have to do with the question at hand?

[cx500d]

You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.

My memory only goes back about 10 years.


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[PaladinFan]

What does that have to do with the question at hand?

It answers the snarky question of "So when is the SoCon going to have a team make it to the Semi’s?"

The answer is they've put teams in the semifinals a bunch of times. The conference underwent a massive upheaval in the last five years and lost their two most powerful programs. The Conference has regained its footing and is re-establishing itself as a top tier FCS conference.

The general answer is that I don't know when the SoCon will make the semis again. Wofford cam darn close two years ago and gave Youngstown everything they could handle. I think it will be sooner rather than later.

If I had to bet, I might say that the next semifinal team might be Furman in 2019 (next season). The Paladins played a bunch of freshmen last year and made the second round. There are only 11 seniors on the current roster and none on the offensive line. Next year they will be mostly juniors and seniors and I expect will be a handful.

[Milktruck74]

The Big Sky has a few matchups this year between league teams that aren't conference games. I guess that is the nature of having rivalries within a super-sized conference.

It isn't just the Big Sky. Wake Forest and North Carolina weren't scheduled to meet in ACC play between 2015 and 2022, so the two schools scheduled a couple of games that won't count as conference games (in 2019 and 2021).


I guess I understand, but....they don't count toward conference standings, but they shouldn't be considered OOC games....then again, who determines that, and what does it matter? Ehhhhhh....

[ElCid]

I guess I understand, but....they don't count toward conference standings, but they shouldn't be considered OOC games....then again, who determines that, and what does it matter? Ehhhhhh....

I guess I always thought it was due to travel costs. I suppose it is cheaper for some of them to play each other rather than to fly to the east coast. Since some teams have real OOC games, those that didn't get real OOC opponents and have play a conf team shouldn't be penalized or benefit from losing or winning a game against a conf opponent that might affect the conf championship race. Just guessing as I am not deep into Big Sky policy.

[VandalBasher]

These games might not count toward conference standings but they are equally as important to playoff possibilities and Top 25 rankings.

But, I think it is hookie as well. When I was analyzing the schedules, I saw that some teams have a nine game BSC schedule and others an eight. I wasn't aware you could schedule in conference as OOC.


Cal Poly: @ North Dakota State, vs. Weber State, vs. Brown.
Northern Arizona: @ Texas-El Paso (FBS), vs. Eastern Washington, @ Missouri State.
Northern Colorado: vs. McNeese, @ South Dakota, vs. Sacramento State.

[dbackjon]

You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.


Last Big Sky Team in the NC: 2010 EWU (WON) (also 2008+2009 - both Montana)
Last SoCon team in the NC: 2007 App (Won)
Last CURRENT SoCon team in the NC: 2001 Furman (LOST to Montana)

[dbackjon]

Last Big Sky Team in the Semi's: 2016 EWU
Last SoCon Team in the Semi's: 2012 GaSo
Last Current SoCon Team in Semi's: 2005 Furman

In that same time frame, 7 Big Sky Teams made the Semi's.

[PaladinFan]

Last Big Sky Team in the Semi's: 2016 EWU
Last SoCon Team in the Semi's: 2012 GaSo
Last Current SoCon Team in Semi's: 2005 Furman

In that same time frame, 7 Big Sky Teams made the Semi's.

I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

In 2013 the SoCon lost two historically powerful programs. Every team that advanced in the post-season after 2012 did so without facing arguably the two greatest FCS programs in history, Georgia Southern and App State. Their loss, while anticipated, created a major adjustment period for the Southern Conference. The conference is just now getting its feet again.

It would be similar to Eastern Washington and Montana simply leaving the Big Sky in the same season. Or Delaware and James Madison leaving the CAA. There is going to be an unavoidable transition.

If you look at the big musical chairs that happened over the last few years Division 1 football, the SoCon was hit the hardest. The Big Sky has not lost a transititioning team since 1996 (Boise State). The CAA lost UMass and essentially two startups (Ga State and ODU). Missouri Valley lost only Western Kentucky. Southland lost only Texas State.

No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.

[PaladinFan]

None of that is to say the SoCon is on some sort of high ground.

Our leading program right now, Samford, needs to start carrying its own water, stop scheduling putrid D2 teams, and win some playoff games.

There are plenty of chances for big out of conference wins that will help elevate the national profile. That's on the conference teams, though. At some point, you gotta go out and win football games and definitely prove that your conference is "back."

Unfortunately, I think the SoCon is probably even enough across the board that we may cannibalize ourselves before getting too deep into the season. That will probably mean our teams are on the road in the post season and having to play one another in the second round. The best cure for that is to win our ooc games and for our leading programs to win their conference games.

[dbackjon]

I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

In 2013 the SoCon lost two historically powerful programs. Every team that advanced in the post-season after 2012 did so without facing arguably the two greatest FCS programs in history, Georgia Southern and App State. Their loss, while anticipated, created a major adjustment period for the Southern Conference. The conference is just now getting its feet again.

It would be similar to Eastern Washington and Montana simply leaving the Big Sky in the same season. Or Delaware and James Madison leaving the CAA. There is going to be an unavoidable transition.

If you look at the big musical chairs that happened over the last few years Division 1 football, the SoCon was hit the hardest. The Big Sky has not lost a transititioning team since 1996 (Boise State). The CAA lost UMass and essentially two startups (Ga State and ODU). Missouri Valley lost only Western Kentucky. Southland lost only Texas State.

No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.


I actually agree - just was a counter to the statement about how often the SoCon was hit.

As for realignment hitting hard, recently SoCon yes. But in the 90's it was the Big Sky hit hard by their three most consistent top teams leaving - Nevada, Boise and Idaho.

[FUBeAR]

So...according to some of the Teams’ websites in the BSC, their 2018 games with North Dakota count as BSC Conference games even though North Dakota is not a Member of the BSC and they have 2018 games showing with other Teams that ARE Members of the BSC that do not count as BSC Conference games. Does this make sense to anyone?

As we can tell from some of the recent posts in this thread, trying to assess a Conference A’s strength relative to Conference B’s by using historical Playoff results data can be greatly skewed by the timeframe selected. Head-to-Head is a far better assessment tool and the only one I can recall is Chattanooga absolutely THUMPING Weber 45-14 in 2016. As we know though, due to regionalization in the Playoffs (and generally with regular season schedules), we have very few Head-to Head comparisons between the 2 Conferences at issue in this discussion. The SoCon has been cannibalistic in Round 2 games & had some very close 2nd & 3rd losses to SemiFinalists & Finalists (as Weber did last year) recently, but, alas, they have not, recently, made it to the Semi’s. Other than EWU’s Nice runs in 2016 & 2013, I just don’t see where any other BSC has shined recently in the Playoffs with the Weber exception already noted. I do see 2 embarrassing 1st round home losses to non-scholarship Teams in the past 2 years by highly-touted BSC Teams.

So, if I’m being completely honest, I don’t think a legitimate ‘call’ can be made which of these 2 conferences is stronger in 2018...yet.

Which brings me back to the 1st paragraph. I think 2018 OOC success (or lack of) during the regular season will be the only reasonable way to evaluate Teams from these Conferences as At-large Playoff berths are being determined - not how many Championships Furman, Georgia Southern, and App State won in the past AND also NOT how EWU did in the 2013 Playoffs. And with the ‘mess’ that I mentioned in the 1st paragraph, I think only the “TRUE” OOC contests (which also excludes the games vs. NDak) for BSC Teams should be considered for this purpose; otherwise there is the distinct risk of using circular logic or confirmation bias to make those assessments.

Most, if not all, of the Teams in both Conferences have competitive OOC schedules. I’ll wait to evaluate those games before stating my case that the SoCon should actually have 5 Teams in the Playoffs in 2018 or maybe only 2 and/or the BSC should have 5 or even 6...or maybe only 2...or even 1. Of course, those numbers are also dependent upon how the MVFC and the CAA fare out of conference, and to a lesser extent the SLC & the OVC. All the rest are 1 bid leagues, IMO.

Fun discussion, but the right answer is...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cle6_uAWMAAO4U7.jpg

[F'N Hawks]

I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.

Right. Which is why they are not as good as the Big Sky and no longer a power.

[F'N Hawks]

So...according to some of the Teams’ websites in the BSC, their 2018 games with North Dakota count as BSC Conference games even though North Dakota is not a Member of the BSC and they have 2018 games showing with other Teams that ARE Members of the BSC that do not count as BSC Conference games. Does this make sense to anyone?


Yes it makes sense. They let UND stay on as a "scheduling alliance" type of member. Really nothing changes from last year other than UND cannot win the league title. So the Big Sky is the same but UND loses the perk of getting the auto-bid, which they wouldn't win anyway.

[PaladinFan]

Right. Which is why they are not as good as the Big Sky and no longer a power.

Except that you might argue that the SoCon has roared back despite being at a more significant disadvantage than most other FCS conferences.

Point being, heading into 2018, the SoCon, who was more greatly impacted by realignment and who is in a far more competitive marketplace for football talent than virtually every other FCS conference, is back in the conversation. You would think that the conferences who have less competition and did not have any real impact from realignment would be further ahead than they are. If they are ahead, it isn't by much.

I personally think that if the SoCon wanted to put a stake in this argument they would reach out to Kennesaw State and Jacksonville State. That would make one whale of a football conference.

[FUBeAR]

Yes it makes sense. They let UND stay on as a "scheduling alliance" type of member. Really nothing changes from last year other than UND cannot win the league title. So the Big Sky is the same but UND loses the perk of getting the auto-bid, which they wouldn't win anyway.OK - I guess I understand it from a ‘mechanical’ perspective now, but, conceptually, I find it real hard to wrap my head around playing games vs. teams that ARE in the conference that don’t count in the standings, while, in the same season, playing games against a team that is NOT in the conference (per BCS & UND websites) and those games do count as conference games in the standings. Just seems hard to trust the equity of the standings and may exacerbate the situation that, I believe, existed last year where several of the Top Teams in the BSC did not play each other.

For example, if, let’s say Mercer didn’t play Samford and didn’t have to count their game against Furman, but, instead played “Affiliate Member,” Davidson in a game that counted, I sure think they would have a whole lot better chance of winning or tying for the SoCon Championship & thus, improving their chances of making the playoffs.

Seems like a real screwy system. Hope they change/resolve it in the seasons ahead.

[F'N Hawks]

OK - I guess I understand it from a ‘mechanical’ perspective now, but, conceptually, I find it real hard to wrap my head around playing games vs. teams that ARE in the conference that don’t count in the standings, while, in the same season, playing games against a team that is NOT in the conference (per BCS & UND websites) and those games do count as conference games in the standings. Just seems hard to trust the equity of the standings and may exacerbate the situation that, I believe, existed last year where several of the Top Teams in the BSC did not play each other.

For example, if, let’s say Mercer didn’t play Samford and didn’t have to count their game against Furman, but, instead played “Affiliate Member,” Davidson in a game that counted, I sure think they would have a whole lot better chance of winning or tying for the SoCon Championship & thus, improving their chances of making the playoffs.

Seems like a real screwy system. Hope they change/resolve it in the seasons ahead.

Is what it is- you are right. Too many teams lead to not playing 5 teams per year so the conference champion can be tainted once the final standings are in place. Who turned out to be good - who turned out to be not as good as once perceived?

[dbackjon]

Except that you might argue that the SoCon has roared back despite being at a more significant disadvantage than most other FCS conferences.

Point being, heading into 2018, the SoCon, who was more greatly impacted by realignment and who is in a far more competitive marketplace for football talent than virtually every other FCS conference, is back in the conversation. You would think that the conferences who have less competition and did not have any real impact from realignment would be further ahead than they are. If they are ahead, it isn't by much.

I personally think that if the SoCon wanted to put a stake in this argument they would reach out to Kennesaw State and Jacksonville State. That would make one whale of a football conference.


This is the 5th Season since ASU/GSU left. How much longer can you use that excuse?

[dbackjon]

Is what it is- you are right. Too many teams lead to not playing 5 teams per year so the conference champion can be tainted once the final standings are in place. Who turned out to be good - who turned out to be not as good as once perceived?


Which is why no one was upset with UND leaving.

[FUBeAR]

...not as good as the Big Sky...

https://i.imgflip.com/2dostj.jpg

[FUBeAR]

This is the 5th Season since ASU/GSU left. How much longer can you use that excuse?Speaking of excuses...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3977xU5hcj8/hqdefault.jpg

...do you have one? Please feel free to answer for Cal Poly also.

[F'N Hawks]

Which is why no one was upset with UND leaving.

Except they added Idaho. Same problem, less travel for a few teams.

[dbackjon]

Speaking of excuses...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3977xU5hcj8/hqdefault.jpg

...do you have one? Please feel free to answer for Cal Poly also.


Nice deflection. That was a totally embarrassing loss that should have gotten the coach fired, again.

[dbackjon]

Except they added Idaho. Same problem, less travel for a few teams.

Idaho was added before the F'N Hawks left. If the F'N Hawks had announced they were leaving beforehand, we could have just slid Idaho into your schedule.

[F'N Hawks]

Idaho was added before the F'N Hawks left. If the F'N Hawks had announced they were leaving beforehand, we could have just slid Idaho into your schedule.

My point was you didn't lose a team (UND) to make the conference smaller. You replaced UND with Idaho and, in fact, its even worse for the next two years. Too many teams no matter how we slice it.

[PaladinFan]

This is the 5th Season since ASU/GSU left. How much longer can you use that excuse?

I think that's the point of the thread.

The SoCon's first post-App/GSU season was 2014. The SoCon added back VMI (an admittedly bad program) along with startups Mercer and ETSU. So, 4 years ago the SoCon subtracted arguably the two of the best programs the FCS has seen and added back a generally awful VMI team and two startups.

Today, VMI is still bad, but Mercer and ETSU can pull their weight. Furman has regained its national respectability. Samford is as good as they've ever been.

I said when App State and GSU left (I'd find it on here if I had time) that the SoCon would survive and teams would take their place. I knew it would be a while. Their absence created a vacuum filled by far less accomplished teams. Those teams have gotten up to speed a bit, and while the SoCon probably isn't as strong at the top as it was 15 years ago, it is probably as deep top top bottom today as it has been in years.

[FUBeAR]

Nice deflection. That was a totally embarrassing loss that should have gotten the coach fired, again.
Not a deflection at all.

Exactly ‘on-point’ to the topic of the thread. When the BSC’s 3rd best Team gets curb-stomped by the SoCon’s 3rd best Team, as Chatt did to Weber, and the 4th Place Team gave up the 1st loss ever in Playoff history to a non-scholarship Team from the PFL at Home...in the 1st round, as occurred in 2016, something starts to become evident. Then, that’s followed the next year by another loss to a non-scholarship PFL Team by a BSC 3rd Place Team at Home...in the 1st Round, it became quite clear...

Despite having 27.8 Total Teams in the Conference & a totally intercoursed up schedule of conference/non-conference/Counter’s/non-Counter’s games/standings...The Big Sky Conference should HAVE BEEN a 2 Bid League...at best...the past 2 years. As I said earlier, we’ll see how the true OOC results look this year. Maybe I’ll change my mind for 2018.

[GreenGlasses]

The Big Sky has a few matchups this year between league teams that aren't conference games. I guess that is the nature of having rivalries within a super-sized conference.
[QUOTE]

Which is stupid dumb and retarded. You should not be allowed to play conference games that count for OOC. If that's allowed then why doesn't say Alabama just load up the other teams they don't play in the SEC and have a better SOS. The Big Sky needs an Airprt meeting like the WAC top programs had in 1998 to split it up.

[QUOTE=PaladinFan;2644707]You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.

They were to busy playing teams like Whatchamcallet University of some Generic location in DII then.

[dbackjon]

[QUOTE=Sandlapper Spike;2644705]The Big Sky has a few matchups this year between league teams that aren't conference games. I guess that is the nature of having rivalries within a super-sized conference.
[QUOTE]

Which is stupid dumb and retarded. You should not be allowed to play conference games that count for OOC. If that's allowed then why doesn't say Alabama just load up the other teams they don't play in the SEC and have a better SOS. The Big Sky needs an Airprt meeting like the WAC top programs had in 1998 to split it up.



They were to busy playing teams like Whatchamcallet University of some Generic location in DII then.


Why is it stupid? Eastern teams don't want to travel out west for home and home series, and the pool of Western FCS teams is very limited. NAU can get home and home series with MVFC and Southland teams, but we are competing against all the other Big Sky teams for games.


If you feel so strongly about this, push your team (whomever that is) to visit Flagstaff.

[FUBeAR]

Why is it stupid? Eastern teams don't want to travel out west for home and home series, and the pool of Western FCS teams is very limited. NAU can get home and home series with MVFC and Southland teams, but we are competing against all the other Big Sky teams for games.

If you feel so strongly about this, push your team (whomever that is) to visit Flagstaff.

So, play 1 money game & 10 Conference games against Teams that are REALLY in the Conference & make ‘em all count. While that could still leave some doubt as to which Team is the true Champion, it would be a lot better...and wouldn’t seem so stupid as the conflagration you have now. Or do whatever you need to do to get an even number of teams & split into divisions with each team playing every team in their division & X number of teams in the other division. Then a tie-breaker system to determine the champions of each division (if there are ties) & a tie-breaker system to determine the auto bid - starting with head to head results of the champions of each division if they played each other, then some secondary & tertiary methods if they didn’t. But, you gotta play everybody in your division & you have to win your division to have a chance at the autobid. Heck, they could even decide not to count intra-division games as part of Division Standings and be similar to where they are now, but it would make more sense, than randomly (or however they are determined) deciding which games count & which don’t. It’s just stupid the way it is...unless I’m misunderstanding something about it.

[F'N Hawks]

You guys really need to settle down and look at a map. There is nobody else to play out west and playing one out of conference game vs another BS team is actually smart.

[FUBeAR]

You guys really need to settle down and look at a map. There is nobody else to play out west and playing one out of conference game vs another BS team is actually smart.Why do these games need to be ‘called’ out of conference? They are NOT out of conference. 1 Team that is a Member of the BSC is playing another Team that is a Member of the BSC in a regular season, official game. How the _ _ _ _ is that “Out of Conference?” Calling it something else and deciding not to count it when determining Championships & Standings is “Emperor has no clothes”-esque.

And then, the BSC doubles-down on those shenanigans by, this year, “calling” games that are played against a Team that is NOT a BSC Member, “Conference Games” which DO count toward standings & Championships.

BizarroWorld, I tell you.

[dbackjon]

Why do these games need to be ‘called’ out of conference? It’s NOT out of conference. 1 Team that is a Member of the BSC is playing another Team that is a Member of the BSC in a regular season, official game. How the _ _ _ _ is that “Out of Conference?” Calling it something else and deciding not to count it when determining Championships & Standings is “Emperor has no clothes”-esque.


The Big Sky plays 8 conference games currently. Teams out west have problems filling the OOC slate, especially home games. So BSC teams have, and do play each other OOC. And yes OOC is the proper terminology since the games don't count for the league standings. Not sure why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

[FUBeAR]

Not sure why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.No, I grasp it now. I understand WHAT is being done. I also understand that kids are eating Tide Pods.

Can you or anyone else help me with the Why? ...Why of the BSC? I get the Why of the Tide Pods. Kids are stupid. Simple explanation.

Let’s isolate it...

1) Weber State, a BSC Member, plays Cal Poly, a BSC Member, on 9/8, but it is NOT a BSC Conference Game.

2) Weber State, a BSC Member, plays North Dakota, NOT a BSC Member on 10/27, but it IS a BSC Conference Game.

I don’t care if your school is located in the Sea of Tranquility and you play 8 or 80 Conference games, those 2 statements above, especially when taken together, make no sense.

[dbackjon]

No, I grasp it now. I understand WHAT is being done. I also understand that kids are eating Tide Pods.

Can you or anyone else help me with the Why? ...Why of the BSC? I get the Why of the Tide Pods. Kids are stupid. Simple explanation.

Let’s isolate it...

1) Weber State, a BSC Member, plays Cal Poly, a BSC Member, on 9/8, but it is NOT a BSC Conference Game.

2) Weber State, a BSC Member, plays North Dakota, NOT a BSC Member on 10/27, but it IS a BSC Conference Game.

I don’t care if your school is located in the Sea of Tranquility and you play 8 or 80 Conference games, those 2 statements above, especially when taken together, make no sense.

They make perfect sense.

You are trying to link two things that are unrelated.
1) Lack of available opponents
2) Schedule through 2020 was already made up. Choices were: Kick UND out completely, and redo every school's schedule, or allow the schedules to remain in place, but disallow UND from winning the conference title. For all practical purposes, the F'n Hawks are a Big Sky football affiliate, just like Cal Poly or UC-Davis, but ineligible for the title.

If a school goes on probation, and ineligible for the conference title, games still count for conference play. Same thing.

[UpstateBison]

I like the SoCon and Wofford. I have lived in Sparkle City for 21 years.

PF, I was trollling after youcanbankit stated the SoCon has better coaches, better players and more guys in the NFL so they are better. If true, what is the issue? By the way, I think Furman is on the upswing and hope they can show it on the field this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

They make perfect sense.

You are trying to link two things that are unrelated.
1) Lack of available opponents
2) Schedule through 2020 was already made up. Choices were: Kick UND out completely, and redo every school's schedule, or allow the schedules to remain in place, but disallow UND from winning the conference title. For all practical purposes, the F'n Hawks are a Big Sky football affiliate, just like Cal Poly or UC-Davis, but ineligible for the title.

If a school goes on probation, and ineligible for the conference title, games still count for conference play. Same thing.

All right...so, because some schools had NDak on their schedules thru 2020, not counting those games would have created 7 BSC games for some schools & 8 for others, right. OK, I think a less confusing way of dealing with that would be to have those schools with N.Dak. on their schedule to count their “Non-Conference” Conference game...even if only 1 of the 2 Schools ‘counts’ it (win or lose).

Or...as we did in the SoCon back when fire was just becoming widely available in your local cave, the standings were based on winning %. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:1981_Southern_Conference_football_standin gs - I’m sure VMI whined that they only lost 1 Conference game (to Furman...on a glorious day!) & Furman Lost 2, but it just seems to make more sense using %’s when you have an unbalanced schedule than it would having Furman not count the Conference loss to Chattanooga that year or allowing VMI to count their win over non-conference Radford to artificially ‘balance’ the schedule.

I’m also not grasping why BSC Teams can’t count more than 8 games as Conference games. Is there some kind of FCS rule against it? I see that the MVFC & CAA, also only PLAY 8 Conference games, but the Southland PLAYS 9...so, there can’t be a 8 game MAX limit...and none of those 3 have phantom Conference or phantom non-Conference games as the BSC does. I get that it’s easier for them to schedule OOC games, but I’m still not grasping why the BSC can’t play (and count) 9 as the SLC does or even 10 if scheduling is that difficult.

[F'N Hawks]

Not all Big Sky teams play another BS team in OOC play. So you cannot have some teams playing 8 conference games and some playing 9. And the league isn't going to mandate playing each other OOC/IC just to play 9.

[UpstateBison]

Thread drift! The Big Sky is better this year. I hope the SoCon makes the Semi’s but we shall see. I thought this thread was about who is better this year.


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[FUBeAR]

Not all Big Sky teams play another BS team in OOC play. So you cannot have some teams playing 8 conference games and some playing 9. And the league isn't going to mandate playing each other OOC/IC just to play 9.
So, set a minimum number of ‘real’ Conference Games against real Conference Teams & just use winning %’s for standings and stop the shell games...or not. I don’t really care. The BSC can just continue to be weird...and stupid. Tide Pods aren’t considered fine cuisine for everyone though.

[cx500d]

I actually agree - just was a counter to the statement about how often the SoCon was hit.

As for realignment hitting hard, recently SoCon yes. But in the 90's it was the Big Sky hit hard by their three most consistent top teams leaving - Nevada, Boise and Idaho.

And then they decided not to accept NDSU and SDSU.....


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[FUBeAR]

Thread drift! The Big Sky is better this year. I hope the SoCon makes the Semi’s but we shall see. I thought this thread was about who is better this year.

As I said, I don’t know about this year. Heck, I can’t even figure out who’s in / not in the BSC....but if we want to say the past 2 years offer predictive advice, then I submit...

2016 - SoCon
Chattanooga, the SoCon’s 3rd place Team stomped a mud-hole in Weber, the BSC 3rd Place Team & went on to lose a close game by less than a TD to SHSU, who then had an even bigger mud-hole stomped into them by eventual Champ, JMU = BIG Advantage to SoCon as it is the only Head-to-Head contest in our sample.

4th Place SoCon Team, Samford, lost by a couple of scores on a cold, rainy day in Youngstown to eventual Runner-Up, YSU. Not ideal for Samford’s Offense & not a great showing, but not terrible. When the SoCon’s 4th Place Team can keep it respectable against the National Runner-up on a day that was custom-made for their Air Attack to lose big to YSU’s outstanding ground game, I can’t be too mad at ‘em.

Wofford, the SoCon’s 2nd Place Team Lost by a single score to those same Runner-up Penguins on another cold, wet windy day in Youngstown. The Terriers had a shot to win this one, but couldn’t make FG’s in the wind and couldn’t push the ball into the end zone from a yard out. Good show for the SoCon. No way anyone could have watched that game and come away thinking these 2 Teams were anything but closely matched. After squeaking by SoCon #2 at home, YSU went on the road and took out the BSC’s Champion, EWU.

SoCon Champion Citadel rec’d a well deserved bye & promptly squandered it by getting cannibalized by fellow SoCon Team Wofford before the Terriers met their above-described fate in Youngstown. Disappointing, of course, that the Top 2 Teams in the SoCon had to meet so early, but it was what it was. Not sure they would have done any better in OH, but give the bellhops Central Ark or even Jax State in that 1st Playoff game for them & I think we see a different outcome.

2016 - BSC
We already know BSC #3, Weber, pooped the bed vs SoCon #3 Chatt.

Oh, BSC #4, Cal-Poly REALLY soiled the linens by losing badly in Round 1 at home to the 1st PFL non-scholarship Team to EVER win an FCS Playoff game.

Surely BSC #2 would fare better. Nope, 7th seeded NDak lost to the CAA’s #4 Team, unseeded Richmond in their 1st Playoff outing.

Already mentioned that BCS Champion, EWU, was knocked out at home by the same YSU Team that edged out the SoCon’s #2 Team in Youngstown, but the Eagles did have a couple of wins before falling. They beat the Southland’s #2 Team & the CAA’s #4.

So...to sum up 2016...for the most part, the BSC created a lot of dirty laundry, with 1 Team out of 4 doing pretty well & the SoCon did OK to pretty well with a H2H win over the BSC, a strong effort by Woffy, a fair showing by Samford, and having their Champion ‘cannibalized.’

2016 - Clear Advantage SoCon


2017 - SoCon
Champion, Wofford, cannibalized SoCon #3, Furman before meeting their fate, like so many before them, in the din of the FargoDome to eventual Champion, NDSU. So, not terrible with an unfortunate draw...again.

SoCon #3, Furman knocked off CAA #3, Elon, before being cannibalized by the SoCon champs. Now remember, just the year before, the CAA‘s #4 Team, Richmond, went on the road to knock off the BSC’s #2, NDak, but in 2017, the SoCon’s #3 went on the road & knocked off the CAA’s #3. If that doesn’t tell you something, you just aren’t paying attention or you just don’t want to see the truth. Not bad at all Paladins, you did more than what the BSC’s #2 failed to do the year before and it’s a shame you had to meet the fate of Regional cannibalization.

SoCon, #2 Samford’s showing in the Playoffs was disappointing as they lost in Round 1 on the road at Kennesaw. BUT, was it really as diasappointing as we initially thought? Samford beat KSU in the Regular season, so seeing them fall was a surprise, but that KSU Team went on the road to knock off the overall #3 seed, JaxSt, and gave semi-finalist, SHSU, all they wanted before falling. Oh, the Owls are also now preseason ranked as high as #3 in the country.

So, to summarize. Not bad. Nothing too great, although Furman’s win over Elon was notable. Nothing at all embarrassing.

2017 - BSC
Why is Brittany Spears coming to mind?...Oh yeah...Oops, they did it again! Another BSC Playoff Team falls to a non-schollie PFL Teams as BSC #3, NAU, loses at home in the 1st round. Putrid.

But, surely the BSC #1, Southern Utah showed out. Nope, they, like Citadel the year before, squandered their seed and were cannibalized by Weber.

Yep, that same Weber that was curb-stomped by a SoCon #3 Team now knocked out the BSC #1 after a nice win over the MVFC’s #4 Team. They even went on and used their cold-weather prowess to give eventual runner-up, JMU, a very tough game on an Arctic night in VA.

2017 - Nice job Weber, but considering the entire body of Playoff work in 2017, I still have to give the edge to the SoCon.

Overall - In the past 2 years, we’ve seen nice results for Chattanooga, Wofford, and Furman, including a H2H playoff win by the SoCon over the BSC. We saw a couple of OK, but still losing performances by Samford. And we saw an unfortunate draw for The Citadel. In that same timeframe, we’ve, perhaps, seen that same kind of unfortunate draw for SUU, so we can cancel those 2 out. What else have we seen - some good work each year by ONE BSC Team (EWU in 2016 & Weber in2017), an egg laid by a seeded NDak Team, and 2 EMBARRASSMENTS of the highest order by Cal-Poly & NAU.

If the was question was phrased, “Which Conference might have ONE Team that might make a deep run in the Playoffs?,” I could perhaps seeing that as a toss up or maybe even a slight lean to the BSC. But, if we’re considering which conference, overall, is better positioned for the Playoffs, based on recent history, I have to say, it’s, unquestionably, the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

The prosecution rests.

[VandalBasher]

This thread ended up better than I thought.

[Redbird 4th & short]

So, set a minimum number of ‘real’ Conference Games against real Conference Teams & just use winning %’s for standings and stop the shell games...or not. I don’t really care. The BSC can just continue to be weird...and stupid. Tide Pods aren’t considered fine cuisine for everyone though.

Not as weird or stupid as what ISUr did when it couldn't find another home D-I game for 2018 .. we scheduled a stupid-ass NAIA team (St Xavier) to save/make money because we wouldn't settle for another year with just 5 home games. So we are paying #5 NAIA St Xavier to take a school bus (probably a yellow one) from just 90 minutes away because we wouldn't give up our 6th home game this fall.

So when we're sitting firmly on the bubble at 7-4 come playoff bid time, and we don't get in because 7 wins is really 6 wins ... all eyes will turn to lynching our AD because he didn't want to bite bullet 2 years in a row with 5 home games ... wanna talk about stupid ??

Not hyperbole .. some fans think this is cause for firing our AD if it comes down to this next November.

[PaladinFan]

Not as weird or stupid as what ISUr did when it couldn't find another home D-I game for 2018 .. we scheduled a stupid-ass NAIA team (St Xavier) to save/make money because we wouldn't settle for another year with just 5 home games. So we are paying #5 NAIA St Xavier to take a school bus (probably a yellow one) from just 90 minutes away because we wouldn't give up our 6th home game this fall.

So when we're sitting firmly on the bubble at 7-4 come playoff bid time, and we don't get in because 7 wins is really 6 wins ... all eyes will turn to lynching our AD because he didn't want to bite bullet 2 years in a row with 5 home games ... wanna talk about stupid ??

Not hyperbole .. some fans think this is cause for firing our AD if it comes down to this next November.

I am constantly amazed how some teams almost try to schedule themselves out of the post season.

When you schedule an FBS game (a likely loss) and a sub-D1 game (a likely win), you just make life difficult. Now there are 9 remaining D1 games, and you have to win 7 and most likely 8. In a tough conference, that's just extremely small room for error.

[GreenGlasses]

I actually agree - just was a counter to the statement about how often the SoCon was hit.

As for realignment hitting hard, recently SoCon yes. But in the 90's it was the Big Sky hit hard by their three most consistent top teams leaving - Nevada, Boise and Idaho.

None of those three were big powers in the Big Sky and if so they were brief. Nevada only made the playoffs 5 times going no further than the 2nd round, Boise State 7 times in the playoffs and 1 national title going all the way back to 1980 a 31-29 win over EKU, Idaho was the closet to a power program while Dennis Erikson and John L Smith was there in the mid 80s to early to mid 90s but they never won enough to be considered a dynasty. The only dynasty program the Big Sky has ever had is Montana.

Big Sky 6 National Titles- Boise State 1980, Idaho State 1981, Montana State 1984, Montana 1995, 2001, Eastern Washington 2010
Southern Conference 8 National Titles- Furman 1988, Marshall 1993, 1996, GA Southern 1999, 2000, App State 2005, 2006, 2007

And if you notice I didn't put GA Southerns other 4 titles on there as they were won and an Independent and not under the SoCon Banner. You can also look at who has been hit harder by schools moving on. The only school the Big Sky lost was Boise State. The SoCon has lost Marshall, App State and GA Southern.

Edited for EWU, sorry

[PaladinFan]

None of those three were big powers in the Big Sky and if so they were brief. Nevada only made the playoffs 5 times going no further than the 2nd round, Boise State 7 times in the playoffs and 1 national title going all the way back to 1980 a 31-29 win over EKU, Idaho was the closet to a power program while Dennis Erikson and John L Smith was there in the mid 80s to early to mid 90s but they never won enough to be considered a dynasty. The only dynasty program the Big Sky has ever had is Montana.

Big Sky 6 National Titles- Boise State 1980, Idaho State 1981, Montana State 1984, Montana 1995, 2001
Southern Conference 8 National Titles- Furman 1988, Marshall 1993, 1996, GA Southern 1999, 2000, App State 2005, 2006, 2007

And if you notice I didn't put GA Southerns other 4 titles on there as they were won and an Independent and not under the SoCon Banner. You can also look at who has been hit harder by schools moving on. The only school the Big Sky lost was Boise State. The SoCon has lost Marshall, App State and GA Southern.

Technically, the CAA's third best team was in the SoCon too.

[FUBeAR]

You can also look at who has been hit harder by schools moving on. The only school the Big Sky lost was Boise State. The SoCon has lost Marshall, App State and GA Southern.
You know, GG, reading this I just realized what the real problem is...and it’s all right here in this thread - very simple - FUZZY MATH.

To BSC Fans & their B(e)SC-lievers...

* Some In-Conference games equal 0 Conference Wins + 0 Conference Losses (and 0 Ties, of course)

* Some OOC games equal 1 Conference Win OR 1 Conference Loss, but not 1 of each, as you get with ‘non-fuzzy-math’ Conference games or 0 of each as with ‘non-fuzzy-math’ OOC games.

* Losing 1 Powerful Team from a Conference 20 years ago > or = losing 2 Powerful Teams 5 Seasons ago

* Having 1 Team do fairly well in the Playoffs + 2 or 3 defecating upon themselves > Having 3 or 4 Teams do OK to fairly well

Thus, I prescribe this cure for the BSC peeps and any others who think the BSC is superior to the SoCon: http://learningpath.org/articles/Free_Online_Applied_Mathematics_Courses_from_Top_U niversities.html

[PaladinFan]

Going back to look, Boise State wasn't exactly beating the brakes off teams.

More of a "good" team than a "bad team," but its not like they were a constant threat to run deep into the post season like App and GSU were.

[dbackjon]

None of those three were big powers in the Big Sky and if so they were brief. Nevada only made the playoffs 5 times going no further than the 2nd round, Boise State 7 times in the playoffs and 1 national title going all the way back to 1980 a 31-29 win over EKU, Idaho was the closet to a power program while Dennis Erikson and John L Smith was there in the mid 80s to early to mid 90s but they never won enough to be considered a dynasty. The only dynasty program the Big Sky has ever had is Montana.

Big Sky 6 National Titles- Boise State 1980, Idaho State 1981, Montana State 1984, Montana 1995, 2001, Eastern Washington 2010
Southern Conference 8 National Titles- Furman 1988, Marshall 1993, 1996, GA Southern 1999, 2000, App State 2005, 2006, 2007

And if you notice I didn't put GA Southerns other 4 titles on there as they were won and an Independent and not under the SoCon Banner. You can also look at who has been hit harder by schools moving on. The only school the Big Sky lost was Boise State. The SoCon has lost Marshall, App State and GA Southern.

Edited for EWU, sorry


Sorry dude, but Nevada, Boise and Idaho were the big three of the Big Sky. Montana didn't start picking it up until mid 90's. Idaho State and Montana State were decent, won a title, but never consistent.

[Vandal03]

As a new FCS fan I knew nothing about the SoCon so I did some research and concluded the Big Sky is the better conference.


Musician alumni - SoCon’s Kenny Chesney vs BSC’s Jeff Ament (Pearl Jam). Winner BSC - Pearl Jam is much better than country music singer

Former Members- SoCon had almost every SEC and ACC team. The Big Sky had Boise State, Nevada, and Gonzaga.
Winner BSC - the Big Sky got rid of a truck driving school, a school that hasn’t won a game in 77 years, and Nevada. The SoCon failed to retain every national champion of the last 20 years not name USC.



Politician - SoCon’s Mark Sanford vs BSC’s Sarah Palin
Winner no one


NFL WR SoCon’s Terrell Owens vs BSC Cooper Kupp
Winner SoCon


Final standings
Big Sky 2-1-1
SoCon 1-2-1

[dbackjon]

As a new FCS fan I knew nothing about the SoCon so I did some research and concluded the Big Sky is the better conference.


Musician alumni - SoCon’s Kenny Chesney vs BSC’s Jeff Ament (Pearl Jam). Winner BSC - Pearl Jam is much better than country music singer

Former Members- SoCon had almost every SEC and ACC team. The Big Sky had Boise State, Nevada, and Gonzaga.
Winner BSC - the Big Sky got rid of a truck driving school, a school that hasn’t won a game in 77 years, and Nevada. The SoCon failed to retain every national champion of the last 20 years not name USC.



Politician - SoCon’s Mark Sanford vs BSC’s Sarah Palin
Winner no one


NFL WR SoCon’s Terrell Owens vs BSC Cooper Kupp
Winner SoCon


Final standings
Big Sky 2-1-1
SoCon 1-2-1


I like this!

[FUBeAR]

As a new FCS fan I knew nothing about the SoCon so I did some research and concluded the Big Sky is the better conference.


Musician alumni - SoCon’s Kenny Chesney vs BSC’s Jeff Ament (Pearl Jam). Winner BSC - Pearl Jam is much better than country music singer

Former Members- SoCon had almost every SEC and ACC team. The Big Sky had Boise State, Nevada, and Gonzaga.
Winner BSC - the Big Sky got rid of a truck driving school, a school that hasn’t won a game in 77 years, and Nevada. The SoCon failed to retain every national champion of the last 20 years not name USC.



Politician - SoCon’s Mark Sanford vs BSC’s Sarah Palin
Winner no one


NFL WR SoCon’s Terrell Owens vs BSC Cooper Kupp
Winner SoCon


Final standings
Big Sky 2-1-1
SoCon 1-2-1

Solid analysis & I’ll agree with TO over Kupp AND the departed Teams thing.

I mean, none of those early departures have experienced the thrill & pageantry of a Thanksgiving weekend 1st Round FCS Playoff game in the cold sleety rain at Butler with well over 1900 in attendance. That’s what College Football is all about; not some prepackaged made-for-Tv exhibition game in an artificial environment. The SoCon allowed those schools to deprive themselves & their Players of such a character-building experience, so they deserve to lose the in this category. You are correct!

Gotta pull the hole card on you & flip the music category though, which also gives the SoCon the win.

I’m sure Jeff Ament is a fine bassist for an outstanding band that was highly relevant in the late 90’s, but he only spent a few semesters in Missoula & he didn’t play Football or even Hoops there, as I saw reported elsewhere. https://missoulian.com/sports/meet-jeff-ament-pearl-jam-s-ament-plays-for-love/article_28c2dc3b-e11f-540e-8ce9-ab07cc0b09fa.html

On the other hand & more recently relevant, the SoCon has a Football STAR http://eweb.furman.edu/athletics/football/seasons/2002/'02pressreleases/RinehartPOY.html - who is the LEAD Singer of his renowned band, Needtobreathe http://www.needtobreathe.com/ , which is CURRENTLY relevant and whose fame is growing with every new release.

GMA Dove Awards


Year
Award
Title
Result


2008 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Signature of Divine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_of_Divine_(Yahweh))"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Heat (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heat_(Needtobreathe_album))
Nominated


2009 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Washed by the Water (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washed_by_the_Water)"
Won


2010 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Lay 'Em Down (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_%27Em_Down)"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Outsiders (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2011 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Something Beautiful"
Won


2012 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Slumber"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Reckoning (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reckoning_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2013 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Short Form Video
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Won


2016 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Song of the Year
Brother
Nominated


Grammy Awards


Year
Award
Result


2015 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Annual_Grammy_Awards)
Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song ("Multiplied")
Nominated


So...based on Rinehart’s relevance to and stardom in the sport of FCS & SoCon Football & the recency of his musical success, I have to give him the nod over the kinda, sorta Grizzly with no association with FCS / BSC Football.

It’s the SoCon again, Sports (and Music) Fans!

Oh...almost forgot, my classmate, Mark Sanford, was a Football Cheerleader at Furman; probably the Head Cheerleader or Captain & it appears Ms. Palin, while, yes, an Idaho Alum, was only there for 3 or 4 semesters & no indication that she participated in Athletics...Football or Cheerleading as Mr. Sanford did. I think I’m gonna have to flip that one too and make it...

1-3 for the BSC...much like their recent Playoff showings...but better.

[cx500d]

Solid analysis & I’ll agree with TO over Kupp AND the departed Teams thing.

I mean, none of those early departures have experienced the thrill & pageantry of a Thanksgiving weekend 1st Round FCS Playoff game in the cold sleety rain at Drake with well over 900 in attendance. That’s what College Football is all about; not some prepackaged made-for-Tv exhibition game in an artificial environment. The SoCon allowed those schools to deprive themselves & their Players of such a character-building experience, so they deserve to lose the in this category. You are correct!

Gotta pull the hole card on you & flip the music category though, which also gives the SoCon the win.

I’m sure Jeff Ament is a fine bassist for an outstanding band that was highly relevant in the late 90’s, but he only spent a few semesters in Missoula & he didn’t play Football or even Hoops there, as I saw reported elsewhere. https://missoulian.com/sports/meet-jeff-ament-pearl-jam-s-ament-plays-for-love/article_28c2dc3b-e11f-540e-8ce9-ab07cc0b09fa.html

On the other hand & more recently relevant, the SoCon has a Football STAR http://eweb.furman.edu/athletics/football/seasons/2002/'02pressreleases/RinehartPOY.html - who is the LEAD Singer of his renowned band, Needtobreathe http://www.needtobreathe.com/ , which is CURRENTLY relevant and whose fame is growing with every new release.

GMA Dove AwardsEdit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Needtobreathe&action=edit&section=11)



Year
Award
Title
Result


2008 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Signature of Divine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_of_Divine_(Yahweh))"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Heat (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heat_(Needtobreathe_album))
Nominated


2009 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Washed by the Water (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washed_by_the_Water)"
Won


2010 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Lay 'Em Down (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_%27Em_Down)"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Outsiders (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2011 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Something Beautiful"
Won


2012 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Slumber"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Reckoning (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reckoning_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2013 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Short Form Video
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Won


2016 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Song of the Year
Brother
Nominated


Grammy AwardsEdit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Needtobreathe&action=edit&section=12)



Year
Award
Result


2015 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Annual_Grammy_Awards)
Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song ("Multiplied")
Nominated


So...based on Rinehart’s relevance to and stardom in the sport of FCS & SoCon Football & the recency of his musical success, I have to give him the nod over the kinda, sorta Grizzly with no association with FCS / BSC Football.

It’s the SoCon again, Sports (and Music) Fans!

AlYankovic.....BOOM. Game over, man


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

AlYankovic.....BOOM. Game over, man


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkBold strategy, Cotton & that kind of musical talent does tip the scales quite a bit, but you missed my Sanford over Palin edit. Still a SoCon victory.

[Vandal03]

Solid analysis & I’ll agree with TO over Kupp AND the departed Teams thing.

I mean, none of those early departures have experienced the thrill & pageantry of a Thanksgiving weekend 1st Round FCS Playoff game in the cold sleety rain at Butler with well over 1900 in attendance. That’s what College Football is all about; not some prepackaged made-for-Tv exhibition game in an artificial environment. The SoCon allowed those schools to deprive themselves & their Players of such a character-building experience, so they deserve to lose the in this category. You are correct!

Gotta pull the hole card on you & flip the music category though, which also gives the SoCon the win.

I’m sure Jeff Ament is a fine bassist for an outstanding band that was highly relevant in the late 90’s, but he only spent a few semesters in Missoula & he didn’t play Football or even Hoops there, as I saw reported elsewhere. https://missoulian.com/sports/meet-jeff-ament-pearl-jam-s-ament-plays-for-love/article_28c2dc3b-e11f-540e-8ce9-ab07cc0b09fa.html

On the other hand & more recently relevant, the SoCon has a Football STAR http://eweb.furman.edu/athletics/football/seasons/2002/'02pressreleases/RinehartPOY.html - who is the LEAD Singer of his renowned band, Needtobreathe http://www.needtobreathe.com/ , which is CURRENTLY relevant and whose fame is growing with every new release.

GMA Dove Awards


Year
Award
Title
Result


2008 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Signature of Divine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_of_Divine_(Yahweh))"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Heat (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heat_(Needtobreathe_album))
Nominated


2009 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Washed by the Water (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washed_by_the_Water)"
Won


2010 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Lay 'Em Down (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_%27Em_Down)"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Outsiders (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2011 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Something Beautiful"
Won


2012 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Slumber"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Reckoning (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reckoning_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2013 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Short Form Video
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Won


2016 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Song of the Year
Brother
Nominated


Grammy Awards


Year
Award
Result


2015 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Annual_Grammy_Awards)
Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song ("Multiplied")
Nominated


So...based on Rinehart’s relevance to and stardom in the sport of FCS & SoCon Football & the recency of his musical success, I have to give him the nod over the kinda, sorta Grizzly with no association with FCS / BSC Football.

It’s the SoCon again, Sports (and Music) Fans!

Oh...almost forgot, my classmate, Mark Sanford, was a Football Cheerleader at Furman; probably the Head Cheerleader or Captain & it appears Ms. Palin, while, yes, an Idaho Alum, was only there for 3 or 4 semesters & no indication that she participated in Athletics...Football or Cheerleading as Mr. Sanford did. I think I’m gonna have to flip that one too and make it...

1-3 for the BSC...much like their recent Playoff showings...but better.

Great reply! I will concede Palin vs Stanford. I read his Wikipedia page and he is less embarrassing. I respect your opinion about musicians at the same time for me Weird Al makes the Big Sky the winner in this category. I grew up with parents who did not listen to pop music so every 80s pop song I knew was Weird Al’s version.

[PaladinFan]

Clint Dempsey, arguably best soccer player in U.S. History. Furman guy.

Randy Moss wasn’t a bad receiver either.

Also relevant, I used to work in Idaho. I have an Idaho sweatshirt that has seen better days. I also know how to correctly pronounce Spokane (though Washingtonians clearly mispronounce it based on spelling and common English).

[FUBeAR]

Randy Moss wasn’t a bad receiver either.I don’t think we can use data from former SoCon schools since this tightly-focused thread has 2018 right there in the title. Otherwise, as mentioned, we have most of the SEC & ACC and about a dozen 1-AA/FCS National Championships to draw upon.

No, wait...even though all those schools are NOT in the SoCon, we can just pretend that they are, just like the BSC is pretending that NDak is still IN-Conference.

“Goose/Gander Rule” is in effect & Randy Moss IS IN-Bounds as is Herschel Walker, Michael Jordan, Erin Andrews, Pam Bondi, Luke Bryan, Dan Cathy...and an absolute host of others.

Game, Set, Chukker, Checkmate!!!

[Thumper 76]

No, wait...even though all those schools are NOT in the SoCon, we can just pretend that they are, just like the BSC is pretending that NDak is still IN-Conference.
!

Look I tend to lean towards the SoCon being better overall, but you do realize how absolutely stupid you trying to beat on this is making you look right? I would say dumb as a fence post but that’s not very nice to the post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

you do realize how absolutely stupid you trying to beat on this is making you look right? I would say dumb as a fence post but that’s not very nice to the post.A lot of people believe George Orwell was a genius. I’m sorry you are not a fan of his work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

[dbackjon]

Great reply! I will concede Palin vs Stanford. I read his Wikipedia page and he is less embarrassing. I respect your opinion about musicians at the same time for me Weird Al makes the Big Sky the winner in this category. I grew up with parents who did not listen to pop music so every 80s pop song I knew was Weird Al’s version.


Tiebreaker 1: Olympic Flag Bearers - BSC 1, SoCon 0
Tiebreaker 2: NCAA Team Championships last 5 years - BSC 2, SoCon 0 (Does not include UND's Hockey Championship while in the BSC)

[cx500d]

Clint Dempsey, arguably best soccer player in U.S. History. Furman guy.

Randy Moss wasn’t a bad receiver either.

Also relevant, I used to work in Idaho. I have an Idaho sweatshirt that has seen better days. I also know how to correctly pronounce Spokane (though Washingtonians clearly mispronounce it based on spelling and common English).

How about Jan Stenerud?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Tiebreaker 1: Olympic Flag Bearers - BSC 1, SoCon 0
Tiebreaker 2: NCAA Team Championships last 5 years - BSC 2, SoCon 0 (Does not include UND's Hockey Championship while in the BSC)
Depending on a pending ruling from the committee, the SoCon may actually be able to claim 2 ‘IN-Conference’ Olympic Flag Bearers - both in the 2004 Summer Games in Athens - Dawn Staley, who played hoops for a SoCon’s ‘affiliate member’ since 1937, The University of Virginia, led the procession in the Opening Ceremonies. And, of course, from the SoCon’s other ‘Affiliate Member’ since 1953, The University of North Carolina, Mia Hamm of Soccer fame, closed those games with Flag in hand.

In addition to the MANY, MANY, MANY FCS, 1-AA, FBS, BCS, and 1-A Football National Championships won by SoCon Teams & its ‘Affiliate Members,’ Furman won the AIWA Women’s National Golf Championship in 1976, before the NCAA began sponsoring ANY Division 1 Women’s Championships in 1981. Both Beth Daniel & Betsy King, who were key players on that Team are now enshrined in the LPGA Hall of Fame...so there’s that.

[SCPALADIN]

Solid analysis & I’ll agree with TO over Kupp AND the departed Teams thing.

I mean, none of those early departures have experienced the thrill & pageantry of a Thanksgiving weekend 1st Round FCS Playoff game in the cold sleety rain at Butler with well over 1900 in attendance. That’s what College Football is all about; not some prepackaged made-for-Tv exhibition game in an artificial environment. The SoCon allowed those schools to deprive themselves & their Players of such a character-building experience, so they deserve to lose the in this category. You are correct!

Gotta pull the hole card on you & flip the music category though, which also gives the SoCon the win.

I’m sure Jeff Ament is a fine bassist for an outstanding band that was highly relevant in the late 90’s, but he only spent a few semesters in Missoula & he didn’t play Football or even Hoops there, as I saw reported elsewhere. https://missoulian.com/sports/meet-jeff-ament-pearl-jam-s-ament-plays-for-love/article_28c2dc3b-e11f-540e-8ce9-ab07cc0b09fa.html

On the other hand & more recently relevant, the SoCon has a Football STAR http://eweb.furman.edu/athletics/football/seasons/2002/'02pressreleases/RinehartPOY.html - who is the LEAD Singer of his renowned band, Needtobreathe http://www.needtobreathe.com/ , which is CURRENTLY relevant and whose fame is growing with every new release.

GMA Dove Awards


Year
Award
Title
Result


2008 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Signature of Divine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_of_Divine_(Yahweh))"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Heat (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heat_(Needtobreathe_album))
Nominated


2009 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Washed by the Water (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washed_by_the_Water)"
Won


2010 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Lay 'Em Down (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_%27Em_Down)"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Outsiders (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2011 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Something Beautiful"
Won


2012 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Group of the Year

Won


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Slumber"
Won


Rock/Contemporary Album of the Year
The Reckoning (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reckoning_(Needtobreathe_album))
Won


2013 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Short Form Video
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Nominated


Rock/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year
"Keep Your Eyes Open"
Won


2016 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_GMA_Dove_Awards)
Song of the Year
Brother
Nominated


Grammy Awards


Year
Award
Result


2015 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Annual_Grammy_Awards)
Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song ("Multiplied")
Nominated


So...based on Rinehart’s relevance to and stardom in the sport of FCS & SoCon Football & the recency of his musical success, I have to give him the nod over the kinda, sorta Grizzly with no association with FCS / BSC Football.

It’s the SoCon again, Sports (and Music) Fans!

Oh...almost forgot, my classmate, Mark Sanford, was a Football Cheerleader at Furman; probably the Head Cheerleader or Captain & it appears Ms. Palin, while, yes, an Idaho Alum, was only there for 3 or 4 semesters & no indication that she participated in Athletics...Football or Cheerleading as Mr. Sanford did. I think I’m gonna have to flip that one too and make it...

1-3 for the BSC...much like their recent Playoff showings...but better.

Furman (SoCon) also takes the politician crown...former Prime Minister of Finland, Alexander Stubb...class of 1993.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stubb

[SCPALADIN]

SOCON also has a WWE Champion...not sure if this is a positive or not.xsmiley_wix
Xavier Woods (Austin Watson), Furman class of 2008. 2-Time WWE Tag team champion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Woods

[dbackjon]

How about Jan Stenerud?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good pick. First kicker in the Pro Football HOF = Montana State

[dbackjon]

Depending on a pending ruling from the committee, the SoCon may actually be able to claim 2 ‘IN-Conference’ Olympic Flag Bearers - both in the 2004 Summer Games in Athens - Dawn Staley, who played hoops for a SoCon’s ‘affiliate member’ since 1937, The University of Virginia, led the procession in the Opening Ceremonies. And, of course, from the SoCon’s other ‘Affiliate Member’ since 1953, The University of North Carolina, Mia Hamm of Soccer fame, closed those games with Flag in hand.

In addition to the MANY, MANY, MANY FCS, 1-AA, FBS, BCS, and 1-A Football National Championships won by SoCon Teams & its ‘Affiliate Members,’ Furman won the AIWA Women’s National Golf Championship in 1976, before the NCAA began sponsoring ANY Division 1 Women’s Championships in 1981. Both Beth Daniel & Betsy King, who were key players on that Team are now enshrined in the LPGA Hall of Fame...so there’s that.



Did they go to school while in the SoCon? If not, no credit.


As far as Flag Bearers who competed in that conference, NAU's Lopez Lomong competed for Big Sky Championships (and won them)

- - - Updated - - -


SOCON also has a WWE Champion...not sure if this is a positive or not.xsmiley_wix
Xavier Woods (Austin Watson), Furman class of 2008. 2-Time WWE Tag team champion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Woods


Does that go under sports or entertainment?

[VandalBasher]

What will Massey and Sagarin say? Are these reliable enough to agree by end of season?

[FUBeAR]

Did they go to school while in the SoCon? If not, no credit

But...but...but if NAU beats NDak on 11/17, the Lumberjacks get “credit” for a Big Sky Conference win, even “while” NDak is not a Big Sky Conference member.

You can have your #FakeNews BSC win (or loss) vs NDak AND your #FakeNews Non-BSC-loss (or Non-BSC-win) vs EWU...if we get Mia Hamm. Fair?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

But...but...but if NAU beats NDak on 11/17, the Lumberjacks get “credit” for a Big Sky Conference win, even “while” NDak is not a Big Sky Conference member.

You can have your #FakeNews BSC win (or loss) vs NDak AND your #FakeNews Non-BSC-loss (or Non-BSC-win) vs EWU...if we get Mia Hamm. Fair?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is different than GSU & ASU in 2013?

[dbackjon]

But...but...but if NAU beats NDak on 11/17, the Lumberjacks get “credit” for a Big Sky Conference win, even “while” NDak is not a Big Sky Conference member.

You can have your #FakeNews BSC win (or loss) vs NDak AND your #FakeNews Non-BSC-loss (or Non-BSC-win) vs EWU...if we get Mia Hamm. Fair?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Big Sky Education >> So Con Education

[ElCid]

Big Sky Education >> So Con Education

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Now you are just being ridiculous.

[FUBeAR]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Now you are just being ridiculous.Not ridiculous. dbj is a Director at the BSC Ministry of Truth. He’s been there since 1984.

[dbackjon]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Now you are just being ridiculous.


Should have been a little more choosy during last expansion.

[ElCid]

Furman (SoCon) also takes the politician crown...former Prime Minister of Finland, Alexander Stubb...class of 1993.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stubb

Not bad but The Citadel has 12 congressmen, 6 governors, 3 senators and 8 ambassadors. That ain't too shabby for our size.

[ElCid]

Should have been a little more choosy during last expansion.

Who? ETSU, VMI or Mercer?

[FUBeAR]

This is different than GSU & ASU in 2013?
Abso-F’N-lutely different! GaSou & Appy were actually, like in reality, IN the SoCon in 2013.

See...They came to Media Day https://247sports.com/college/appalachian-state/Article/Recapping-Southern-Conference-Media-Day-2013-140558/ - Which NDak Players are attending BSC Media Day this year?

And they had players on All-SoCon Teams http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=208789062
Will NDak have All-BSC Players this year?

ALL of their SoCon games counted as SoCon games & none of their Non-SoCon games didn’t not count :)

And they were listed in SoCon stats http://www.soconsports.com/fls/4000/socon/stats/football/2013/confstat.htm?DB_OEM_ID=4000 Will we see NDak’s numbers in the BSC stats this year?

The only reason they were ineligible to win the Title AND ineligible to participate in the Playoffs is they started exceeding the 63 MAX Schollie limit to get ready to move down to the Scourge Belt. Is that the case with NDak?

[FUBeAR]

Not bad but The Citadel has 12 congressmen, 6 governors, 3 senators and 8 ambassadors. That ain't too shabby for our size.
Political Leaders of the Confederate States of America, in today’s environment, are probably folks you shouldn’t be crowing about.

[ElCid]

Political Leaders of the Confederate States of America, in today’s environment, are probably folks you shouldn’t be crowing about.

I didn't include those or it would be more.:D

[PaladinFan]

Abso-F’N-lutely different! GaSou & Appy were actually, like in reality, IN the SoCon in 2013.

See...They came to Media Day https://247sports.com/college/appalachian-state/Article/Recapping-Southern-Conference-Media-Day-2013-140558/ - Which NDak Players are attending BSC Media Day this year?

And they had players on All-SoCon Teams http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=208789062
Will NDak have All-BSC Players this year?

ALL of their SoCon games counted as SoCon games & none of their Non-SoCon games didn’t not count :)

The only reason they were ineligible to win the Title AND ineligible to participate in the Playoffs is they started exceeding the 63 MAX Schollie limit to get ready to move down to the Scourge Belt. Is that the case with NDak?


The only small footnote was that I do not believe App/GSU were playoff eligible in 2013. That ended up not mattering because neither would have qualified even if they had been.

But you are correct, they were very much in the conference and their games very much counted.

[FUBeAR]

The only small footnote was that I do not believe App/GSU were playoff eligible in 2013. That ended up not mattering because neither would have qualified even if they had been.

But you are correct, they were very much in the conference and their games very much counted.Begging to differ with you (for the 1st time ever xsmiley_wix), my Paladin brother, and I don’t doubt that you are usually more well-informed than the Prez of GaSouU, but my memory also has them as ineligible, for the stated reason (which makes sense)...and this GaSou doc recalls it as I do. http://president.georgiasouthern.edu/newsletter/archive/march-2013-special-edition/

“Georgia Southern’s football team has been part of the Southern Conference since 1993 and won ten conference titles during that time and six national championships since 1985. The Eagles’ football schedule for this fall will not change; however, Georgia Southern won’t be eligible for the FCS playoffs.”

[F'N Hawks]

Abso-F’N-lutely different! GaSou & Appy were actually, like in reality, IN the SoCon in 2013.

See...They came to Media Day https://247sports.com/college/appalachian-state/Article/Recapping-Southern-Conference-Media-Day-2013-140558/ - Which NDak Players are attending BSC Media Day this year?

And they had players on All-SoCon Teams http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=208789062
Will NDak have All-BSC Players this year?

ALL of their SoCon games counted as SoCon games & none of their Non-SoCon games didn’t not count :)

And they were listed in SoCon stats http://www.soconsports.com/fls/4000/socon/stats/football/2013/confstat.htm?DB_OEM_ID=4000 Will we see NDak’s numbers in the BSC stats this year?

The only reason they were ineligible to win the Title AND ineligible to participate in the Playoffs is they started exceeding the 63 MAX Schollie limit to get ready to move down to the Scourge Belt. Is that the case with NDak?

So....Media Day and Stats are what you gonna die on the hill with? Congrats, you win. xbowx

[FUBeAR]

So....Media Day and Stats are what you gonna die on the hill with? Congrats, you win. xbowxStandings, All games counting in those standing, Stats inclusion, All-Conference Players, Teams participated in Media Day, and the FACT that both of those Teams WERE ACTUALLY IN the SoCon in 2013...yeah, I’ll go with that.

...vs...Some of the games played vs. this Team that is not, in any other way, actually IN the BSC, count as BSC games.

Yep. I’m good. Your attempt to compare the 2 situations could not have been much more off target.

http://theglobalassociates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/off-target.jpg

[F'N Hawks]

Standings, All games counting in those standing, Stats inclusion, All-Conference Players, Teams participated in Media Day, and the FACT that both of those Teams WERE ACTUALLY IN the SoCon in 2013...yeah, I’ll go with that.

...vs...Some of the games played vs. this Team that is not, in any other way, actually IN the BSC, count as BSC games.

Yep. I’m good. Your attempt to compare the 2 situations could not have been much more off target.

http://theglobalassociates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/off-target.jpg

So if they said tomorrow that UND is actually a part of the conference this year that would make all the difference? Literally, nothing would change after they made that statement.

UND is not eligible for the championship or the auto-bid, but their games count in the Big Sky standings for the other teams. Which is the same as GSU and ASU in 2013. There is no reason to put them in the standings cause it doesn't matter anyway, right?

[FUBeAR]

So if they said tomorrow that UND is actually a part of the conference this year that would make all the difference? Literally, nothing would change after they made that statement.

UND is not eligible for the championship or the auto-bid, but their games count in the Big Sky standings for the other teams. Which is the same as GSU and ASU in 2013. There is no reason to put them in the standings cause it doesn't matter anyway, right?
Here’s what I’ll give you...It appears that all 8 of NDak’s games vs. Teams that ARE ACTUALLY in the BSC are being ‘counted’ as BSC games by those 8 opponents. I wasn’t sure, based on the ‘don’t count some BSC games’ practice, that was the case. So, there’s at least some sense of equity in that one dose of consistency.

On the other hand, only about 60% of BSC Teams play NDak. Well, 33% of the SoCon is playing Gardner-Webb this year. If the SoCon said, “You know what Wofford & WCU, you can just count your games with G-W as a SoCon game this year because they are almost a ‘SoCon Scheduling Partner’ & because we all only want 8 Conference Games, just don’t count that game that you’re playing against each other as a SoCon game,” SoCon Fans would be in an uproar & think less of the League Office than they already do (if that’s indeed possible).

All told, the whole setup is just loopy doublethink.

[dbackjon]

Not bad but The Citadel has 12 congressmen, 6 governors, 3 senators and 8 ambassadors. That ain't too shabby for our size.



I hear that a lot about The Citadel men.. :)

That is impressive. NAU's had a Governor, and a Congressman who ended up in jail :)

- - - Updated - - -


Who? ETSU, VMI or Mercer?

Yes.

[cx500d]

Not bad but The Citadel has 12 congressmen, 6 governors, 3 senators and 8 ambassadors. That ain't too shabby for our size.

Why are you so proud of turning out lying douchebags and some ambassadors


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

I hear that a lot about The Citadel men.. :)

That is impressive. NAU's had a Governor, and a Congressman who ended up in jail :)


do tell his (or her) name .... odds are pretty damn good, he was actually from Illinois ???

p.s. fun fact .... 4 of our last 7 governors have gone to jail ... Blagovich, Ryan, Walker, and Kerner

http://www.daily-journal.com/news/local/of-illinois-last-governors-went-to-prison/article_570fe718-8c52-5db3-8bc5-13d49974d930.html

here in the land of Lincoln, we tolerate corruption but also like justice .. makes for much more interesting news.

[dbackjon]

do tell his (or her) name .... odds are pretty damn good, he was actually from Illinois ???

p.s. fun fact .... 4 of our last 7 governors have gone to jail ... Blagovich, Ryan, Walker, and Kerner

http://www.daily-journal.com/news/local/of-illinois-last-governors-went-to-prison/article_570fe718-8c52-5db3-8bc5-13d49974d930.html

here in the land of Lincoln, we tolerate corruption but also like justice .. makes for much more interesting news.

Rick Renzi - Army brat, moved around, but grew up mostly at Ft. Huachuca in Arizona, then went to NAU

[dbackjon]

do tell his (or her) name .... odds are pretty damn good, he was actually from Illinois ???

p.s. fun fact .... 4 of our last 7 governors have gone to jail ... Blagovich, Ryan, Walker, and Kerner

http://www.daily-journal.com/news/local/of-illinois-last-governors-went-to-prison/article_570fe718-8c52-5db3-8bc5-13d49974d930.html

here in the land of Lincoln, we tolerate corruption but also like justice .. makes for much more interesting news.


I am from Illinois, so I am well aware of this - Illinois seems to do a better job at actually CATCHING the crooks...

Sidenote: My Grandpa was a Kankakee County Supervisor for many decades (Starting with my Great-Grandpa, his brother and my Grandpa, they held the Rockville Township seat for 6 decades) - so he served at the same time as Ryan (Ryan was county supervisor for 5 years)

[kdinva]

Why are you so proud of turning out lying douchebags and some ambassadors


have proof?

[dbackjon]

have proof?


Have you ever known a politician that WASN'T a lying douchebag?

[VandalBasher]

Topic slip!

Back on topic. The Big Sky WILL be ranked, as a conference, above the SoCon according to Massey and Sagarin in preseaon and end-of-year standings.

Regardless of our hookie scheduling agreements. I know it is bush-league and so does everyone else.

[FUBeAR]

Topic slip!

Back on topic. The Big Sky WILL be ranked, as a conference, above the SoCon according to Massey and Sagarin in preseaon and end-of-year standings.

Regardless of our hookie scheduling agreements. I know it is bush-league and so does everyone else.Yep, they certainly will. It’s very challenging to overcome “The Big Lie” once it has taken root in the hearts & minds of the un- & under-informed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

Hence, why, during the 2016 Playoffs, I began the practice of calling The BSC, “The Big Lie Conference” in lieu of “The Big Fluffy,” which I believe others have called it.

...and, cuz, y’know, it rhymes.

[ElCid]

Topic slip!

Back on topic. The Big Sky WILL be ranked, as a conference, above the SoCon according to Massey and Sagarin in preseaon and end-of-year standings.

Regardless of our hookie scheduling agreements. I know it is bush-league and so does everyone else.

For the last few years, the CAA, BS, and SOCON have all been within a very slim margin on average for Massey and Sagarin. Don't think that will change much this year. CAA got a little bump from JMU last couple years, but all three have some strong teams, middle roaders, and dogs. All their SOSs are close as a Conf.

[Vandal03]

Topic slip!

Back on topic. The Big Sky WILL be ranked, as a conference, above the SoCon according to Massey and Sagarin in preseaon and end-of-year standings.

Regardless of our hookie scheduling agreements. I know it is bush-league and so does everyone else.

The Big Sky will be the better football conference in 2018 and the FCS national champion will come from the Big Sky.

[FUBeAR]

The Big Sky will be the better football conference in 2018 and the FCS national champion will come from the Big Sky.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vycuQoHJ80

...and here’s a live look-in at a typical SoCon summer workout session today...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdzoIHJBGt0

[UpstateBison]

The Big Sky will be the better football conference in 2018 and the FCS national champion will come from the Big Sky.

I am not sure if Vandal03 or youcanbankit is the Chattownmocs. Right now, I think the SoCon and youcanbankit has the lead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

These are going to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OONG 50 days

[GreenGlasses]

Going back to look, Boise State wasn't exactly beating the brakes off teams.

More of a "good" team than a "bad team," but its not like they were a constant threat to run deep into the post season like App and GSU were.

I wouldn't even call them "Good". While in the Big Sky Boise was a mediocre middle of the pack team. For the most part at the end of the season they were on the outside looking in at the playoffs. Even their national title came before the SoCon was even considered a IAA conference. The SoCon was a IA conference for 3 years 1978 to 1981. Also there was only 4 teams then. It was Boise State, Grambling State, Lehigh and Eastern Kentucky.

[VandalBasher]

I wouldn't even call them "Good". While in the Big Sky Boise was a mediocre middle of the pack team. For the most part at the end of the season they were on the outside looking in at the playoffs. Even their national title came before the SoCon was even considered a IAA conference. The SoCon was a IA conference for 3 years 1978 to 1981. Also there was only 4 teams then. It was Boise State, Grambling State, Lehigh and Eastern Kentucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_NCAA_Division_I-AA_football_season#Postseason

I didn't understand what you meant until I looked it up. There were no kidding only four teams in the playoffs in 1980. This might as well have been the modern FBS playoffs (CFP or BCS). The FCS championships that NDSU and JMU are looking a lot stronger in comparison after reviewing this link.

[cx500d]

Bingo....Didn't' think it was that hard of a connection

[VandalBasher]

Bingo....Didn't' think it was that hard of a connection

I get it you like to be offensive and insulting. My guess is this is the online personality that works for you. You normally don't use sentences any longer than a few words and your use of punctuation leads me to believe you haven't graduated from high school, yet, or you just didn't graduate. Since you live in Texas, my guess is you picked a favorite team to make you a winner. Well done. You are the bright one.

Now, move along and keep to your self. You are not funny nor are you capable of wit.

[cx500d]

I get it you like to be offensive and insulting. My guess is this is the online personality that works for you. You normally don't use sentences any longer than a few words and your use of punctuation leads me to believe you haven't graduated from high school, yet, or you just didn't graduate. Since you live in Texas, my guess is you picked a favorite team to make you a winner. Well done. You are the bright one.

Now, move along and keep to your self. You are not funny nor are you capable of wit.


Wow! Here I was trying to get ElCid's goat, and I snared a west coast snowflake instead.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickfanon/images/9/9a/Triggered.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160309233441

[ElCid]

Wow! Here I was trying to get ElCid's goat, and I snared a west coast snowflake instead.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickfanon/images/9/9a/Triggered.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160309233441


Huh? Don't mess with my goat. Find your own.

[cx500d]

Huh? Don't mess with my goat. Find your own.


Carolina BBQ goat with slaw on a bun is what I was after.

[Bisonoline]

I get it you like to be offensive and insulting. My guess is this is the online personality that works for you. You normally don't use sentences any longer than a few words and your use of punctuation leads me to believe you haven't graduated from high school, yet, or you just didn't graduate. Since you live in Texas, my guess is you picked a favorite team to make you a winner. Well done. You are the bright one.

Now, move along and keep to your self. You are not funny nor are you capable of wit.

Since youre an Idaho fan its in your best interest to have a sense of humor. For the rest of us with real teams we are still trying to develop ours. Please be patient. xthumbsupx

[Bisonoline]

Wow! Here I was trying to get ElCid's goat, and I snared a west coast snowflake instead.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickfanon/images/9/9a/Triggered.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160309233441

You got a big one---http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28109&stc=1

[cx500d]

You got a big one---http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28109&stc=1

Not the one I was fishing for....

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The Big Sky will be the better football conference in 2018 and the FCS national champion will come from the Big Sky.


And which team will that be?

xlolx

[FUBeAR]

And which team will that be?

xlolxSan Diego - the Toreros are a Playoff ‘Scheduling Affiliate’ BSC Member...y’know xhighfivex

[Vandal03]

And which team will that be?

xlolx

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.

[Bisonoline]

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.

xeyebrowxxrolleyesxxdontknowxxwhistlex

[Milktruck74]

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.

I see you haven't been on this board very long. Your quote/prediction will become someones signature for a year if it is wrong.

[ElCid]

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.

Want to bet Chattown... ...oops, Vandal I mean.

[GreenGlasses]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_NCAA_Division_I-AA_football_season#Postseason

I didn't understand what you meant until I looked it up. There were no kidding only four teams in the playoffs in 1980. This might as well have been the modern FBS playoffs (CFP or BCS). The FCS championships that NDSU and JMU are looking a lot stronger in comparison after reviewing this link.

One of those early championship winners is probably the weakest to ever be national Champs. Florida AM, EKU (2 Times), Boise State and SIU. The fact is almost if not everyone in the 1st round of any playoffs now would probably beat those teams by 21+.


History of the Playoffs:

1978-1980- 4 Teams
1981- 8 Teams
1982-1985- 12 Teams with the 1st 4 getting a bye
1986-2009- 16 Teams
2010-Present 24 Teams with 1st 4 getting a bye

Truthfully I don't think it should have ever went beyond 16. And no one has ever won coming out of the 1st round or play in game. Youngstown made it to the final in 2016 not seeded but we all know how that went down.

[Thumper 76]

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.

Well at least you’re honest about the strategy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElCid]

One of those early championship winners is probably the weakest to ever be national Champs. Florida AM, EKU (2 Times), Boise State and SIU. The fact is almost if not everyone in the 1st round of any playoffs now would probably beat those teams by 21+.


History of the Playoffs:

1978-1980- 4 Teams
1981- 8 Teams
1982-1985- 12 Teams with the 1st 4 getting a bye
1986-2009- 16 Teams
2010-Present 24 Teams with 1st 4 getting a bye

Truthfully I don't think it should have ever went beyond 16. And no one has ever won coming out of the 1st round or play in game. Youngstown made it to the final in 2016 not seeded but we all know how that went down.

I think you got that history and numbers wrong....... But I agree on the 16 teams, or at least they should have stopped when it was 20 teams. 24 is outside of my tolerance.

[SCPALADIN]

I think you got that history and numbers wrong....... But I agree on the 16 teams, or at least they should have stopped when it was 20 teams. 24 is outside of my tolerance.

You're correct. There was a period (2010-2012) with 20 teams. The increase to 24 teams was in 2013.

[PaladinFan]

I think you got that history and numbers wrong....... But I agree on the 16 teams, or at least they should have stopped when it was 20 teams. 24 is outside of my tolerance.

I went round and round about this in the fall, but I think 16 teams is where it should stop. Finish the shooting match before Christmas.

[FUBeAR]

Southwest Athletic Conference teams have conflicting intraconference counter games. Teams are supposed to have 7 counting conference matchups.

Alabama State plays Grambling 9/22, then Alcorn 10/6. season prospectus text says they begin conference play against Alcorn (even though the schedule log has a SWAC logo on the Grambling date).
The Grambling sked shows Alabama State as a "non-conference" game. If so, therefore Alabama State would have only 6 conference matchups this season. Grambling would have full 7.

Also, Alabama A&M/Southern on 9/22 is apparently a non-conf game. AAMU lists it as SWAC game, Southern does not. This leaves Southern with only 6 counting conference games. AAMU would have 8.

By my reckoning, the only way all teams could have 7 conf games, would be to count all above, and have Grambling/AAMU on 11/10 be a non-counter.

...the SWAC has a 7-game conference schedule. As a result, like the Big Sky, you'll have games against conference foes that won't count towards a team's conference record. I apologize & take it all back. I see now that the BSC, in their scheduling of IN-Conference OOC (& vice versa) games, is just following the lead of another FCS Conference. I guess the SWAC is the BSC’s role model. It all makes sense to me now. xthumbsupx

[VandalBasher]

DII MAS CSL Rank, Conference Mean (https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/aboutcomp.htm#key)

1 1 1 1 Missouri Valley (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=85697&s=300937) 28.33
2 2 2 2 Colonial (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=11246&s=300937) 33.78
3 3 6 3 Big Sky (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=10668&s=300937) 45.76
4 5 3 4 Ivy League (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=12206&s=300937) 53.71
5 4 5 5 Southern (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14064&s=300937) 57.74
7 9 4 6 Big South (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=10672&s=300937) 63.00
8 7 8 7 Southland (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14112&s=300937) 64.82
6 8 7 8 OH Valley (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13193&s=300937) 65.04
9 11 11 9 Northeast (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13046&s=300937) 76.90
10 12 9 10 Mid-Eastern AC (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=12545&s=300937) 79.91
11 10 13 11 Patriot League (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13333&s=300937) 81.24
14 6 14 12 FCS Indep (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9227&s=300937) 83.67
12 13 12 13 Pioneer (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13408&s=300937) 92.37
13 14 10 14 Southwestern AC (https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14163&s=300937) 92.67

So far, Massey has the Ivy League ahead of the SOCON for 2018.

[FUBeAR]

So far, Massey has the Ivy League ahead of the SOCON for 2018.

Yes & also predicts this result: https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=300937&t0=University+of+San+Diego&h=-1&s1=300937&t1=Northern+Arizona

...when we KNOW that this result is empirically correct: http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=401001214

How’s that old saying go? Oh yeah...

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1RMAAOSwxu5ZHJTT/s-l300.jpg

[VandalBasher]

Yeah, I heard about NAU's debacle. Too bad. However, the Toreros have fielded some pretty good teams since the Harbaugh days.

[FUBeAR]

the Toreros have fielded some pretty good teams since the Harbaugh days.Heck yeah, they have.

I mean, not too long ago, at home, they beat a 1st-year-of-the-program Mercer Team composed of only non-scholarship Freshmen by about 1/2 as much as they spanked the Big Sky’s, NAU, by on the road https://www.ncaa.com/game/football/fcs/2013/10/05/mercer-san-diego and by about the same margin they beat Cal-Poly, also on the road & also from the Big Sky. https://www.google.com/search?q=san+diego+cal+polymfootball&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS746US747&oq=san+diego+cal+polymfootball&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.9347j1j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11f5417zj3;6;/g/11ckvnrr7z;dt;fp;1

To be able to beat a bunch of 18 year old non-scholarship, but future SoCon Players, by 1/2 as much as they beat experienced & highly ranked, full scholarship allotment Big Sky Playoff Teams, tells you something about how good they are.

Or...maybe it’s a bit more informative about the quality of Teams that the BSC keeps getting At-Large berths for in the Playoffs.

You decide.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I don’t know which Big Sky team will win it. I made my prediction and I am sticking with it because if I am right I can refer to my post and tell everyone that I called it in July. If I am wrong no one is going to remember the prediction.


Bold prediction there....xrolleyesx

EWU? They need a better defense.
Weber? Need to replace their good QB.
MSU? Not now with Murray gone.
Montana? xlolx....they need more time.
Idaho? We'll see how they do at this level.

Anyone else?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Yeah, I heard about NAU's debacle. Too bad. However, the Toreros have fielded some pretty good teams since the Harbaugh days.


Pretty easy to say when they play other teams that should be D3 then beat a pretender Big Fluff team in the playoffs.

[FUBeAR]

Pretty easy to say when they play other teams that should be D3 then beat a pretender Big Fluff team in the playoffs.Man, you can sure say that again...

really...I’m not being idiomatic...you can actually say it twice...because they have done it 2 years in a row.

[VandalBasher]

Man, you can sure say that again...

really...I’m not being idiomatic...you can actually say it twice...because they have done it 2 years in a row.

This is just banter. It would be the same if you got upset about The Big South, OVC or Ivy surpassing your conference.

2017 Sagarin
22 BIG SKY (AA)= 49.90 49.35 ( 22) 13 49.56 ( 22)
23 SOUTHERN (AA)= 47.74 46.18 ( 23) 9 47.35 ( 23)
24 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 42.93 42.20 ( 26) 8 42.59 ( 25)
25 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 42.91 43.64 ( 24) 9 43.29 ( 24)
26 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 42.45 42.85 ( 25) 6 42.52 ( 26)
27 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 39.59 40.01 ( 27) 11 39.74 ( 27)
28 NORTHEAST (AA)= 35.53 35.16 ( 28) 7 35.37 ( 28)
29 PATRIOT (AA)= 33.69 33.94 ( 29) 7 33.76 ( 29)
30 SWAC-WEST (AA)= 30.33 29.62 ( 31) 5 30.09 ( 31)
31 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 30.28 31.17 ( 30) 11 30.71 ( 30)
32 SWAC-EAST (AA)= 23.62 23.16 ( 32) 5 23.57 ( 32)
33 PIONEER (AA)= 21.95 22.40 ( 33) 11 21.86 ( 33)

[FUBeAR]

This is just banter. It would be the same if you got upset about The Big South, OVC or Ivy surpassing your conference.Yes..that is just banter. And what you have posted from Massey & Sagarin is Voodoo Rank-o-nomics based upon flawed, no-longer relevant assumptions; rife with confirmation bias; and, at this point in the season, is predicated upon minimal data.

For the recent, albeit historical, truly relevant facts of the matter, I would direct you to Post #59 in this thread.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Bold prediction there....xrolleyesx

EWU? They need a better defense.
Weber? Need to replace their good QB.
MSU? Not now with Murray gone.
Montana? xlolx....they need more time.
Idaho? We'll see how they do at this level.

Anyone else?

I like EWU chances this year to make top 8 or better this year ... they will have a chip on their shoulder from playoff snub last year. And their offense should improve given they have almost everyone coming back. BUt yes, their defense is pretty bad .. wonder if new coach is making any progress on that front or not. I believe he was brought in to be much more defensive minded than is predecessor.