Lindy's Top 25

[SU DOG]

http://www.lindyssports.com/college-football/column/north-dakota-state-tops-lindys-fcs-top-25/472641/

[TheKingpin28]

SHSU, UNH, and JSU were all in the top 6. Ha. That is funny.

APSU, Lehigh and NAU all in the T25 while not including WIU (McGuire and McShane) and Stony Brook (Carbone and Liotine) makes this even that more pathetic.

This person went with name recognition hard over returning talent.

[JacksFan40]

SHSU, UNH, and JSU were all in the top 6. Ha. That is funny.

APSU, Lehigh and NAU all in the T25 while not including WIU (McGuire and McShane) and Stony Brook (Carbone and Liotine) makes this even that more pathetic.

This person went with name recognition hard over returning talent.
APSU will be Top 2 OVC, I think they’ll beat JSU for the conference crown, they deserve Top 25. The rest of your statement I agree with.

[RichH2]

Avid Lehigh fan but think Lindys jumped the shark on that one. We do have a great O. Absent a much much better defense we wont even win the PL.

[TheKingpin28]

APSU will be Top 2 OVC, I think they’ll beat JSU for the conference crown, they deserve Top 25. The rest of your statement I agree with.They need to prove to me that they deserve to be in there. OOC was 3 FBS games. Sure it was last year, but a preseason poll is mainly who is coming back and how would they fare against the top 25ish teams. I just don't see it right now. Sure if they show up and surprise me, then they got my vote, but I need more evidence than just last season. Also the OVC is a 1 bid with potential for 2 each year.

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[VandalBasher]

I even think these cats are getting ahead of themselves. Until Idaho wins a single FCS again, it is hard to argue a Top 25 ranking.

[JSUSoutherner]

APSU will beat JSU for the conference crown

APSU won't come close.

[ST_Lawson]

All the press has WIU out of their top 25...some not even mentioning us in "others to watch" or whatever just outside 25.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/73303560/am-i-so-out-of-touch-no-everyone-else-is-wrong.jpg

[ngineer]

Avid Lehigh fan but think Lindys jumped the shark on that one. We do have a great O. Absent a much much better defense we wont even win the PL.

Maybe they found the mozzarella to plug up the holes in the swiss cheese defense!

[JacksFan40]

APSU won't come close.
I’m not guaranteeing it, but JSU’s dominance will end at some point, and upsets always happen.

[RootinFerDukes]

I even think these cats are getting ahead of themselves. Until Idaho wins a single FCS again, it is hard to argue a Top 25 ranking.

Yeah, that’s a little suspect, to say the least. Idaho will get the benefit of the doubt by being above .500 and being a big sky member when it comes to rankings.

[JSUSoutherner]

I’m not guaranteeing it, but JSU’s dominance will end at some point, and upsets always happen.

Of course it will. But not this year and not in that game.

[Redbird 4th & short]

All the press has WIU out of their top 25...some not even mentioning us in "others to watch" or whatever just outside 25.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/73303560/am-i-so-out-of-touch-no-everyone-else-is-wrong.jpg

maybe WIU should make a move to OVC .. I'm thinking you guys would beat alleged #15 APSU by 3 to 4 TDs .. at their place even.

APSU had a nice season for themselves, but here are the facts laced with Massey opponent rankings

Top 4 ranked opponents:

- APSU went 0-4 playing against: #8, #125, #128, #132 by average of 23 points per game
- WIU went 1-3 playing against: #23, #56, #60, #80 with 3 losses by avg of 14 points per game, 1 win was by 9 against #80 UNI


Next 4 ranked opponents:

- APSU went 4-0 playing against: #222, #246, #261, #272 by average of 8 points per game ... let than sink in ....their best 4 wins were by 8 points per game against teams ranked around 250 by Massey.

- WIU went 3-1 playing against: #104, #113, #141, #170 .. 3 wins by average of 17 pints per game; 1 loss to #104 USD by just 5

Bottom 4 ranked opponents

- APS went 4-0 playing against: #286, #312, #342, #504 .. the first 3 wins average margin was just 11 points per game; the last win against #504 was by 56 points; total average margin of all 4 games was 22 pints per game.
- WIU went 4-0 playing against: #172, #201, #311, #342 .. the 4 wins against much tougher schedule were by average of 34 points per game

Common opponents .. only TN Tech: APSU won by 7 on road, WIU won by 27.

So APSU won 8 games last year ... 7 of which were against teams ranked #222 to #342 by an average of 9 points per game.

I love that they have turned their program around in very short period and are having some modest success playing in OVC .. but we've got to keep it real. If they return a lot of starters, I would expect them to be even better. But don't they have to earn a ranking first ??? And WIU has been top 4 to 5 in MVFC for 3 straight years, and is left out of many top 25's ??

Strength of Schedule and depth of conference play continues to be ignored by most subjective polls. That is why I always like to see where Massey, Sagarin, and the 2 with the most credibility in my mind ... the Massey Composite and AGS Polls.

[JSUSoutherner]

maybe WIU should make a move to OVC .. I'm thinking you guys would beat alleged #15 APSU by 3 to 4 TDs .. at their place even.

APSU had a nice season for themselves, but here are the facts laced with Massey opponent rankings

Top 4 ranked opponents:

- APSU went 0-4 playing against: #8, #125, #128, #132 by average of 23 points per game
- WIU went 1-3 playing against: #23, #56, #60, #80 with 3 losses by avg of 14 points per game, 1 win was by 9 against #80 UNI


Next 4 ranked opponents:

- APSU went 4-0 playing against: #222, #246, #261, #272 by average of 8 points per game ... let than sink in ....their best 4 wins were by 8 points per game against teams ranked around 250 by Massey.

- WIU went 3-1 playing against: #104, #113, #141, #170 .. 3 wins by average of 17 pints per game; 1 loss to #104 USD by just 5

Bottom 4 ranked opponents

- APS went 4-0 playing against: #286, #312, #342, #504 .. the first 3 wins average margin was just 11 points per game; the last win against #504 was by 56 points; total average margin of all 4 games was 22 pints per game.
- WIU went 4-0 playing against: #172, #201, #311, #342 .. the 4 wins against much tougher schedule were by average of 34 points per game

Common opponents .. only TN Tech: APSU won by 7 on road, WIU won by 27.

So APSU won 8 games last year ... 7 of which were against teams ranked #222 to #342 by an average of 9 points per game.

I love that they have turned their program around in very short period and are having some modest success playing in OVC .. but we've got to keep it real. If they return a lot of starters, I would expect them to be even better. But don't they have to earn a ranking first ??? And WIU has been top 4 to 5 in MVFC for 3 straight years, and is left out of many top 25's ??

Strength of Schedule and depth of conference play continues to be ignored by most subjective polls. That is why I always like to see where Massey, Sagarin, and the 2 with the most credibility in my mind ... the Massey Composite and AGS Polls.

I think what Kennesaw has done has had a little effect here as well. Like APSU, Kennesaw two years ago was a nobody. The year before that they didn't exist. However since KSU started up there's been an undeniable upward trend with their program. Same goes for Healy and APSU. APSU sucked a LOT before Healy. Healy's first year (though, yes, they did go 0-11) they were a lot better. Healy's second year was even better. I think the pollsters may be seeing the upward trajectory with APSU like we saw with Kennesaw and getting a bit ahead of themselves.

I agree they should earn it and in no way am using this theory to justify the ranking, but I think that may be their train of thought here.

[SU DOG]

Hero Sports APSU Preview

https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2018-preseason-preview-austin-peay-ajaj

[VandalBasher]

Yeah, that’s a little suspect, to say the least. Idaho will get the benefit of the doubt by being above .500 and being a big sky member when it comes to rankings.

I still think Idaho goes 7-4 this year with games against Fresno State and Florida. We play at EWU. This game is only 1.5 hours away with a large alumni base in Spokane. There could be more Vandal fans at this game than the home team. As for the rest of the Big Sky, we don't play Weber, Sac. St. nor NAU. Montana travels to Idaho for their rivalry game renewal.

[katss07]

Calling APSU a “playoff snub” isn’t fair to the teams that should have been in before Austin Peay. EWU, Delaware and even McNeese were all teams that should have been in before Austin Peay was even considered. I get the argument, they beat every team they played with the exception of JSU (at the FCS level). In the OVC, OOC and the JSU game is the only opportunity you have to prove your legit.

As far as I’m concerned, Austin Peay was just an average FCS team. No good wins, proved little in the regular season. Healy is a hell of a coach and he’ll get good money from someone in a few years. But outside of the Eastern Illinois win, they beat a bunch of nobodies (even EIU is a reach). They weren’t a playoff sunb, they were just your average team. Lamar would have played them close.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I think what Kennesaw has done has had a little effect here as well. Like APSU, Kennesaw two years ago was a nobody. The year before that they didn't exist. However since KSU started up there's been an undeniable upward trend with their program. Same goes for Healy and APSU. APSU sucked a LOT before Healy. Healy's first year (though, yes, they did go 0-11) they were a lot better. Healy's second year was even better. I think the pollsters may be seeing the upward trajectory with APSU like we saw with Kennesaw and getting a bit ahead of themselves.

I agree they should earn it and in no way am using this theory to justify the ranking, but I think that may be their train of thought here.

agree on KSU completely .. they got better every week last year and proved themselves as season progressed. Now we'll see if people scout them harder and figure them out .. or if they had a lot of mojo working for them and played over their heads. Like anything .. things are great when you are moving up and people don't really see you coming. Things change once you have arrived. Will they keep improving ro slide .. we shall see. As of now, they've seemed to earn it. 2nd time around will be more proof.

For me .. none of this really matters much until my favorite new website comes out with the database of retained starters and production .. NDSU and JMU are the only fixtures in top 10 .. everyone else is up in the air. This keepratings website is very helpful .. tracks starters retained/lost at every position group, stats by position group retained include:

- offense: games started, rushing attempts, passing attempts, receptions ... I think
- defense: games started, tackles

http://www.keepratings.net/ .. still not updated .. they take donations. For you wonks out there, especially if you make a living off of college football in some way, consider donating to help keep this site running. Very helpful info. Someone here posted the lonk a year ago and I used it a lot early in season. So I just donated.

[katss07]

I still think Idaho goes 7-4 this year with games against Fresno State and Florida. We play at EWU. This game is only 1.5 hours away with a large alumni base in Spokane. There could be more Vandal fans at this game than the home team. As for the rest of the Big Sky, we don't play Weber, Sac. St. nor NAU. Montana travels to Idaho for their rivalry game renewal.
I don’t know man, EWU usually gets a good crowd. I think they had a pretty long regular season sell out streak recently. The Montana-Idaho game should be awesome. Montana hasn’t been a real FCS threat since ‘11 so seeing them return to prominence would be fun. When Montana is good, I feel like the FCS is much more fun...

[PaladinFan]

Calling APSU a “playoff snub” isn’t fair to the teams that should have been in before Austin Peay. EWU, Delaware and even McNeese were all teams that should have been in before Austin Peay was even considered. I get the argument, they beat every team they played with the exception of JSU (at the FCS level). In the OVC, OOC and the JSU game is the only opportunity you have to prove your legit.

As far as I’m concerned, Austin Peay was just an average FCS team. No good wins, proved little in the regular season. Healy is a hell of a coach and he’ll get good money from someone in a few years. But outside of the Eastern Illinois win, they beat a bunch of nobodies (even EIU is a reach). They weren’t a playoff sunb, they were just your average team. Lamar would have played them close.

APSU wasn't a playoff snub. They play in a weak conference, beat only two teams that finished over .500 (both finished 6-5), and lost to the one tough team in their league by three touchdowns.

Scheduling has something to do with it too. If you want to be a playoff team, don't play 3 money games.

[VandalBasher]

I don’t know man, EWU usually gets a good crowd. I think they had a pretty long regular season sell out streak recently. The Montana-Idaho game should be awesome. Montana hasn’t been a real FCS threat since ‘11 so seeing them return to prominence would be fun. When Montana is good, I feel like the FCS is much more fun...

28. Eastern Wash. 10,123- this is their average for 2017. It might be over the top to claim we will have more fans there. It will end up as a nice crowd when you include Idaho fans. Go Vandals.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2017.pdf

[katss07]

APSU wasn't a playoff snub. They play in a weak conference, beat only two teams that finished over .500 (both finished 6-5), and lost to the one tough team in their league by three touchdowns.

Scheduling has something to do with it too. If you want to be a playoff team, don't play 3 money games.
Exactly. Thats why its dumb to call APSU a snub, and there are outlets that do it. Austin Peay didn’t deserve to be in because they didn’t show anything. Unless they beat Georgia FBS or Jacksonville St, they are not legit.

[Catbooster]

It should be a good crowd since you're so close. But I don't think there's enough extra seats available to outnumber the EWU fans. As I recall, they bring in extra seating against the Montana teams, and probably will against Idaho. Even then I don't think we outnumbered them when I've been there.

Edit: Oops - should have quoted VandalBasher - reply is to him.

[Daytripper]

SHSU, UNH, and JSU were all in the top 6. Ha. That is funny.

APSU, Lehigh and NAU all in the T25 while not including WIU (McGuire and McShane) and Stony Brook (Carbone and Liotine) makes this even that more pathetic.

This person went with name recognition hard over returning talent.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif

[TheKingpin28]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gifAlright, prove me wrong then. Tell me how this is eye rolling

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[JSUSoutherner]

Exactly. Thats why its dumb to call APSU a snub, and there are outlets that do it. Austin Peay didn’t deserve to be in because they didn’t show anything. Unless they beat Georgia FBS or Jacksonville St, they are not legit.

So if they go 9-2 (losses being us and UGA) what's the difference between them and a two or three loss Southland team?

[Iridebikes]

I still think Idaho goes 7-4 this year with games against Fresno State and Florida. We play at EWU. This game is only 1.5 hours away with a large alumni base in Spokane. There could be more Vandal fans at this game than the home team. As for the rest of the Big Sky, we don't play Weber, Sac. St. nor NAU. Montana travels to Idaho for their rivalry game renewal.

Get your tickets early VandalBasher. We've sold out every game for at least the last four years and that includes teams that don't travel well to Cheney such as UND, N. Colo, Cal Poly ...

[TheKingpin28]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gifSo you lose over 50% of your rushing offense with one of them being a 1000yd+ rusher who scored 15 TDsby himself, a 5000yd passer who accounted for 48 total TDs, a top wideout who missed 1000yds by 7yds, a monster of a DT in Hall, top tackler in Johnson, Price who was a solid Safety, 2 time Southland all conference player in Tezeno, etc... but you roll your eyes at me questioning it.

Remember, these guys almost single handedly got their ass beat by Chris Streveler and a start up program in KSU.

You're telling me that the top 6 teams are NDSU, JMU, SHSU, JSU, UNH, and a team to fill in the blank? Yeah GTFO with that.

EWU returns their all big sky QB, C, RB, KR, and WR on offense and we all know that the argument for best QB this year will have Guburd thrown into the mix immediately. I'm not saying EWU is a top 6 team right now, but there is no way in hell that SHSU, JSU, and UNH are all in that top 6.

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[PaladinFan]

So if they go 9-2 (losses being us and UGA) what's the difference between them and a two or three loss Southland team?

A 9-2 APSU team will be in the postseason.

The Govs don't have a ton of wiggle room, though. I think they can afford a loss to UGA and one loss in the OVC. They can forget the playoffs at 7-4 and would be squarely a bubble team at 8-3.

APSU needs to drop PC and Morehead State and start working towards better ooc FCS on the slate. I think that would help them a bunch.

[BEAR]

#11- Agree with that. I'm not worried about the QB position as much as Lindys is apparently. Our second year QB completed 15 of 19 for 200 yards and 2 tds in the spring game and had plenty of time to run and throw. I watched him play all through high school and he's intelligent and creative on the field. Our new head coach is no stranger to a solid system that has been very successful in our conference. But that isn't his goal. He wants more and is recruiting to that end. One solid FBS game in Tulsa this year but all our tough conference games are on the road. Might not be another 9-0 year in conference but I believe we will get a shot at the playoffs at large.

[JSUSoutherner]

A 9-2 APSU team will be in the postseason.

The Govs don't have a ton of wiggle room, though. I think they can afford a loss to UGA and one loss in the OVC. They can forget the playoffs at 7-4 and would be squarely a bubble team at 8-3.

APSU needs to drop PC and Morehead State and start working towards better ooc FCS on the slate. I think that would help them a bunch.

TBH I don't think they expected to have to worry about scheduling quality OOC opponents this soon.

Healy said last year the ONLY reason they scheduled Morehead was so they could get that first win and get the ball rolling. I don't think they planned to be staring 9-2 straight in the face this early.

[JSUSoutherner]

EWU returns their all big sky QB, C, RB, KR, and WR on offense

Oh wow an All Big Sky kick returner?

Let me go ahead and pencil them in at #1 in my preseason ranking.

[TheKingpin28]

Oh wow an All Big Sky kick returner?

Let me go ahead and pencil them in at #1 in my preseason ranking.Id put them ahead of JSU without even thinking about it. Same with WIU, Stony Brook, Weber St, SHSU, etc...



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[JSUSoutherner]

Id put them ahead of JSU without even thinking about it. Same with WIU, Stony Brook, Weber St, SHSU, etc...



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Ehh.

[VandalBasher]

It should be a good crowd since you're so close. But I don't think there's enough extra seats available to outnumber the EWU fans. As I recall, they bring in extra seating against the Montana teams, and probably will against Idaho. Even then I don't think we outnumbered them when I've been there.

Edit: Oops - should have quoted VandalBasher - reply is to him.


Well, Cat, we have enjoyed Mike Kramer's success at MSU. Especially MSU's recent success against the Griz.

[Daytripper]

Alright, prove me wrong then. Tell me how this is eye rolling

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Your own words. You continuously troll SHSU on this forum. Look at your ad nauseam long history of statements about how SHSU is overrated. In the last 7 years they have consistently gotten farther in the playoffs than any other team not NDSU. Yet here you are again dismissing them as though anybody who ranks them high must be delusional.....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, Cat, we have enjoyed Mike Kramer's success at MSU. Especially MSU's recent success against the Griz.
Did we get in a time machine? I have some stories to tell you guys from nearly 20 yrs. in the future.

[PantherRob82]

I’m not guaranteeing it, but JSU’s dominance will end at some point, and upsets always happen.

Too lazy to research, but my brain tells me APSU played them close this past season.

[Schism55]

Too lazy to research, but my brain tells me APSU played them close this past season.
Nah Jax st won by 3 TD's....but like grandma always said, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades xsmiley_wix

[PantherRob82]

Nah Jax st won by 3 TD's....but like grandma always said, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades xsmiley_wix

For some reason my brain said 28-21, and close counts when predicting future ability to compete. ;)

[TheKingpin28]

Your own words. You continuously troll SHSU on this forum. Look at your ad nauseam long history of statements about how SHSU is overrated. In the last 7 years they have consistently gotten farther in the playoffs than any other team not NDSU. Yet here you are again dismissing them as though anybody who ranks them high must be delusional.....So the fact that your team is good but not great means I troll them? At least I provided statistical analysis in my argument, you just spewed words out. Do you want me to post all my polls for last season compared to the AGS aggregate? I'll let you in on a little secret, my poll is very similar to the aggregate. Want to know why? I look at the FCS as a whole and compare teams as to where they'd place if they played equal competition and how that would rank them. I don't slot vote. Just cause a team like UNI might not win 9 games does not mean they were not a top 15 team or so. How about WIU last year? They played one of the hardest schedules in the land and played WSU their first game. You're telling me WIU was not a top 15 team even if their record did not reflect it? How about UNH? Are you going to tell me there were not 8 better teams then them? How about Samford? Are you going to sit there and pretend Hodges is not a top 5 QB going into this season for the FCS and that since they lost in the 1st round, they should drop heavily?

If you want to debate me, then bring something to the table instead of acting like a typical SHSU fan and whining that people don't worship you as the first best loser in the FCS.

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[Redbird 4th & short]

Nah Jax st won by 3 TD's....but like grandma always said, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades xsmiley_wix

JSU won at APSU .. dominated early to go up 20-0 .. hung on rest of way to win 34-14. APSU's longest drive thru 3 qtrs. was 69 yards .. next longest was 19. They had 36 total yards on 8 other drives thru 3 qtrs. incl the 19 yard drive. 4th qtr they got 127 yards .. 85 on 2nd to last drive when JSU was likely in prevent situation up 20.

APSU did settle down on defense part way into Q3 after slow start. But it was a 3 TD margin game at APSU from 2d qtr on.

Again .. I like the APSU story last year, but that does not mean they were really a bubble team last year, or #15 team this year. Let them prove themselves this year. If they go 9-2, their resume would be same as last year because their SOS is much weaker this year .. UNLESS they started winning by bigger margins than a year ago. If they keep beating all the weak teams by 7 points, then they are not a playoff team. Got to beat some good teams and/or blow out most of the weak teams.

But I do expect them to improve some .. they will need to start putting most weak teams away by 3+ TDs .. then let's talk playoffs.

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU won at APSU .. dominated early to go up 20-0 .. hung on rest of way to win 34-14. APSU's longest drive thru 3 qtrs. was 69 yards .. next longest was 19. They had 36 total yards on 8 other drives thru 3 qtrs. incl the 19 yard drive. 4th qtr they got 127 yards .. 85 on 2nd to last drive when JSU was likely in prevent situation up 20.

APSU did settle down on defense part way into Q3 after slow start. But it was a 3 TD margin game at APSU from 2d qtr on.

Again .. I like the APSU story last year, but that does not mean they were really a bubble team last year, or #15 team this year. Let them prove themselves this year. If they go 9-2, their resume would be same as last year because their SOS is much weaker this year .. UNLESS they started winning by bigger margins than a year ago. If they keep beating all the weak teams by 7 points, then they are not a playoff team. Got to beat some good teams and/or blow out most of the weak teams.

But I do expect them to improve some .. they will need to start putting most weak teams away by 3+ TDs .. then let's talk playoffs.

They only scored in the fourth because we emptied the bench. The second quarter score we fumbled the ball to them.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Avid Lehigh fan but think Lindys jumped the shark on that one. We do have a great O. Absent a much much better defense we wont even win the PL.

Indeed!

Lehigh has a Top 10-15 type offense but the defense, as everyone knows by now, has been horrific for the last 4-5 years. Lehigh (if they find a defense) and Colgate (if they step up their OOC play) are potential Top 25 teams once the season starts. However, preseason wise neither is worthy of ranking....

[katss07]

So if they go 9-2 (losses being us and UGA) what's the difference between them and a two or three loss Southland team?
The Southland is much deeper than the OVC, and saying the OVC is on the same level as the SLC is just wrong.

[frozennorth]

The Southland is much deeper than the OVC, and saying the OVC is on the same level as the SLC is just wrong.
i hate to burst your bubble but the OVC is better than the southland https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2017/conference/

[Catbooster]

Well, Cat, we have enjoyed Mike Kramer's success at MSU. Especially MSU's recent success against the Griz.
I really thought Kramer would have more success when he took over at ISU.

I've enjoyed the last few years of Cat/Griz too. xthumbsupx

[caribbeanhen]

UNH at 6 and Austin Peay at 15

no Delaware

this poll is on summer vacation

Delaware was very evenly matched last year with UNH

All good though, games will tell us the truth, pollsters not so much

[katss07]

i hate to burst your bubble but the OVC is better than the southland https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2017/conference/
Hm, no sir. I don’t really care what this damn rating says, because it also says the Big South is better. Right there is where you know it isn’t correct. I get you, like others, worship Sagarin. But for a second lets look at facts.

First, the obvious. The Southland had 3 teams in the playoffs last season and another that probably should have been in. The OVC is a ONE BID conference. Then there is the fact that the OVC team in the playoffs consistently fails to make it out of the second round. So in terms of playoff success, yeah, the SLC is much better over the past 5 years. Talent wise, I can assure you, the Southland is better. The SLC has 8 first team All Americans, from a wide verity of schools. OVC? 2 First Teamers. That tells you the story right there, top to bottom thats how the conferences are. The SLC is always deeper than the OVC. The OVC is mediocre, while the SLC is above average.

1. MVFC
2. CAA
3. Big Sky
4. SoCon
5. SLC
6. Big South
7. OVC

I fully understand JSU is good. But JSU can’t be the entire conference. Don’t argue the OVC is better than the SLC. It isn’t true!

[GreenGlasses]

SHSU, UNH, and JSU were all in the top 6. Ha. That is funny.

APSU, Lehigh and NAU all in the T25 while not including WIU (McGuire and McShane) and Stony Brook (Carbone and Liotine) makes this even that more pathetic.

This person went with name recognition hard over returning talent.

Decent Top 25, only revisions I would make is to move UNH down quite a bit somewhere in the 15-20 range. And if you are going to put Idaho in the top 25 right off the bat then you put them at 25 and let them move up. Also I don't think Youngstown State or Montana should be in the top 25. Move both of them out and add 2 of the 3 in with WIU, Western Carolina or Stony Brook.

The rest of it looks solid though.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Hm, no sir. I don’t really care what this damn rating says, because it also says the Big South is better. Right there is where you know it isn’t correct. I get you, like others, worship Sagarin. But for a second lets look at facts.

First, the obvious. The Southland had 3 teams in the playoffs last season and another that probably should have been in. The OVC is a ONE BID conference. Then there is the fact that the OVC team in the playoffs consistently fails to make it out of the second round. So in terms of playoff success, yeah, the SLC is much better over the past 5 years. Talent wise, I can assure you, the Southland is better. The SLC has 8 first team All Americans, from a wide verity of schools. OVC? 2 First Teamers. That tells you the story right there, top to bottom thats how the conferences are. The SLC is always deeper than the OVC. The OVC is mediocre, while the SLC is above average.

1. MVFC
2. CAA
3. Big Sky
4. SoCon
5. SLC
6. Big South
7. OVC

I fully understand JSU is good. But JSU can’t be the entire conference. Don’t argue the OVC is better than the SLC. It isn’t true!
I'll take the top 4 from Southland hands down over top 4 from OVC ... but the bottom half of Southland is really weak. This is why SHSU struggles once it runs into a top 5 level team ... too many weak opponents in and out of conference. Get tested maybe twice a year.

[Seawolf97]

Decent Top 25, only revisions I would make is to move UNH down quite a bit somewhere in the 15-20 range. And if you are going to put Idaho in the top 25 right off the bat then you put them at 25 and let them move up. Also I don't think Youngstown State or Montana should be in the top 25. Move both of them out and add 2 of the 3 in with WIU, Western Carolina or Stony Brook.

The rest of it looks solid though. Thank You ! We beat UNH and crushed Lehigh in the 1st round of the playoffs . Had a 10-3 overall record and finished 2nd in the CAA at 7-1. Not even a mention in this poll. Anyway play the games and we shall see .

[TheKingpin28]

Thank You ! We beat UNH and crushed Lehigh in the 1st round of the playoffs . Had a 10-3 overall record and finished 2nd in the CAA at 7-1. Not even a mention in this poll. Anyway play the games and we shall see .I said earlier about how leaving you and WIU is a travesty but I think people are sleeping on Carbone and Liotine (hard to replace Bedell though). 2 excellent playmakers who get overshadowed by Lauletta, Schor, and Knight as well as Mack, Cooper (entire offense at RI), Kane and Sharp.

I will say this though, the turn over of your defense is what has me nervous as you graduated 4 all CAA players and you just don't replace that kind of talent. I think people are going to be sleeping on Lawless though. He has to be the heart of that defense if they want to maintain their success from last year.

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[Gangtackle11]

I would say that Villanova is somewhere between the lofty rank of 11th by Athlon & the no love of Lindys unranked prediction.

Season tickets went on sale today on the Main Line. No rush a big line to buy is 3. xpeacexxpeacex

[katss07]

I'll take the top 4 from Southland hands down over top 4 from OVC ... but the bottom half of Southland is really weak. This is why SHSU struggles once it runs into a top 5 level team ... too many weak opponents in and out of conference. Get tested maybe twice a year.
Yeah, no question. The SLC may be the most top heavy conference. The real talent is within the top 3-5 teams. But, like you said, SLC as a whole is better. Aside from JSU, you cannot count on ANYONE from the OVC.

[cx500d]

Yeah, no question. The SLC may be the most top heavy conference. The real talent is within the top 3-5 teams. But, like you said, SLC as a whole is better. Aside from JSU, you cannot count on ANYONE from the OVC.

I heard Austin Peay is going to win it all this year since they have a chip on their shoulder for getting cheated out of the title last year.

[TheKingpin28]

I heard Austin Peay is going to win it all this year since they have a chip on their shoulder for getting cheated out of the title last year.Weight room?

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[dbackjon]

SHSU, UNH, and JSU were all in the top 6. Ha. That is funny.

APSU, Lehigh and NAU all in the T25 while not including WIU (McGuire and McShane) and Stony Brook (Carbone and Liotine) makes this even that more pathetic.

This person went with name recognition hard over returning talent.

Why is NAU, a playoff team last year returning much of it's offense (including QB) at 25 such a stretch?

[cx500d]

Weight room?

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Probably enlightened by the wonderful story how the sioux went unbeaten in the big sky.

[cx500d]

Why is NAU, a playoff team last year returning much of it's offense (including QB) at 25 such a stretch?

I don't think it is, but some people cant forget that throttling you got in your last game.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I think as preseason rankings go .. outside of NDSU and JMU, the top 10 has not been this wide open in a while. I realize there are always holes picked in this or that team every year. But if you look at the best conferences who typically pout 3-5 team in the top 20 .. then try to pare it down to a top 10 .. I think most people would struggle to put much confidence on anyone besides NDSU and JMU ... every other traditional top 10 to 20 team could be argued up or down.

Seriously .. I can't think of one other team that is a top 10 lock.

[TheKingpin28]

Why is NAU, a playoff team last year returning much of it's offense (including QB) at 25 such a stretch?

Outside of USD curb-stomping you or the fact that you lost a 1000yd+ receiver in Marks (1st team Big Sky/3rd team AA), Shank who was one of the more underrated interior lineman (1st team Big Sky), Blake Porter who anchored that line with Shank (3rd team Big Sky), Burton who was your next top receiver at around 500yds, Walton who was your only pure run stuffer on a pathetic defense (3rd team Big Sky) that finished 74th overall in a no defense conference. When your defense gives up close to 400yds a game in a conference that is notorious for high scoring shootouts, I'd be suspicious of your team. It is great that you think you can replace your top 2 receivers, and 2 of your big time interior linemen, who were vastly overmatched against a non-scholly Pioneer team in USD.

I was one of the first people on the Cookus bandwagon and I am starting to question that decision. The guy can ball, but when it comes to situations that require your team to step up, your team faltered. I'd put you in the top 30-35 but not in my top 25. Bad losses to SUU, USD, WIU and a loss to UM when they had no direction and lost their 4th string (I think Gresch was 4th string) and beat you with their 5th string QB/RB, that is just bad. When they get 44 passing yards all game and still beat NAU, well, you can see why I'd be a little skeptical.

[katss07]

I said it before the SUU game last year, so I’ll say it again. NAU isn’t a threat to win the BSC. They just aren’t that good. The loss the SUU was pretty eye opening. I get it was at SUU, but if they were a real contender, they wouldn’t have been blown out by SUU (or USD for that matter).

[Schism55]

I said it before the SUU game last year, so I’ll say it again. NAU isn’t a threat to win the BSC. They just aren’t that good. The loss the SUU was pretty eye opening. I get it was at SUU, but if they were a real contender, they wouldn’t have been blown out by SUU (or USD for that matter).

This. That playoff loss has certainly left a bad taste in people's mouths.
On the plus side, teams may underestimate NAU and they can take advantage of that.

[Redbird 4th & short]

This. That playoff loss has certainly left a bad taste in people's mouths.
On the plus side, teams may underestimate NAU and they can take advantage of that.

xchinscratchx ahem ... uh ... yeah, I suppose that could happen xshakefistxxshakefistx

p.s. I believe they also lost their long time head coach after the season .. if I recall correctly, they announced his retirement around the week leading up to our game.

[JSUSoutherner]

I heard Austin Peay is going to win it all this year since they have a chip on their shoulder for getting cheated out of the title last year.

They don't deserve that type of slander lol. They didn't make their own thread.

[nodak651]

I said it before the SUU game last year, so I’ll say it again. NAU isn’t a threat to win the BSC. They just aren’t that good. The loss the SUU was pretty eye opening. I get it was at SUU, but if they were a real contender, they wouldn’t have been blown out by SUU (or USD for that matter).
NAU is overrated at the start of EVERY season. Cal Poly often is, also.

[Catbooster]

xchinscratchx ahem ... uh ... yeah, I suppose that could happen xshakefistxxshakefistx

p.s. I believe they also lost their long time head coach after the season .. if I recall correctly, they announced his retirement around the week leading up to our game.
You recall correctly, but their AD left at the end of the season, and the new one changed that plan. Souers is back.

[katss07]

NAU is overrated at the start of EVERY season. Cal Poly often is, also.
I know. Thats why I don’t get why people don’t realize they aren’t legit. Ranking them isn’t smart! Call me when they make the second round.

[FUBeAR]

This. That playoff loss has certainly left a bad taste in people's mouths.
On the plus side, teams may underestimate NAU and they can take advantage of that.Certainly left a bad taste in their OC’s mouth. I believe he was fired shortly after the game and has landed as the OC at...VMI...who was 0-11 last year & lost their starting QB & #1 RB/#2 Receiver via transfer out from a Team that finished last or near the bottom of the SoCon in almost every Offensive stat.

Going to be very interesting to see what VMI can put on the field this season.

[dbackjon]

I don't think it is, but some people cant forget that throttling you got in your last game.

That never happened. It was all in your head.

[dbackjon]

xchinscratchx ahem ... uh ... yeah, I suppose that could happen xshakefistxxshakefistx

p.s. I believe they also lost their long time head coach after the season .. if I recall correctly, they announced his retirement around the week leading up to our game.

He was being forced out by the AD, who then split for UTSA, and is still coaching now.

[dbackjon]

Outside of USD curb-stomping you or the fact that you lost a 1000yd+ receiver in Marks (1st team Big Sky/3rd team AA), Shank who was one of the more underrated interior lineman (1st team Big Sky), Blake Porter who anchored that line with Shank (3rd team Big Sky), Burton who was your next top receiver at around 500yds, Walton who was your only pure run stuffer on a pathetic defense (3rd team Big Sky) that finished 74th overall in a no defense conference. When your defense gives up close to 400yds a game in a conference that is notorious for high scoring shootouts, I'd be suspicious of your team. It is great that you think you can replace your top 2 receivers, and 2 of your big time interior linemen, who were vastly overmatched against a non-scholly Pioneer team in USD.

I was one of the first people on the Cookus bandwagon and I am starting to question that decision. The guy can ball, but when it comes to situations that require your team to step up, your team faltered. I'd put you in the top 30-35 but not in my top 25. Bad losses to SUU, USD, WIU and a loss to UM when they had no direction and lost their 4th string (I think Gresch was 4th string) and beat you with their 5th string QB/RB, that is just bad. When they get 44 passing yards all game and still beat NAU, well, you can see why I'd be a little skeptical.

We do have Emmanuel Butler back - before his injury early in game two last year, he was far and away the best receiver at NAU, probably in the Big Sky (Two time All Big Sky 1st team in 2015 and 2016)

Just outside of the top 25, or 25 isn't a big difference - first four games will show what NAU has: At UTEP, EWU, At Missouri State, SUU. 2-2 in that stretch, 30-35. 3-1, top 25

[Derby City Duke]

Oh wow an All Big Sky kick returner?

Let me go ahead and pencil them in at #1 in my preseason ranking.

Flip the 'not so way back' machine to 2016 and see what a difference Rashad Davis made for JMU as a PR. Good special teams returners are great to have -- return against SHSU broke their back and we forced 2 more bad special teams plays right after that.

[dewey]

Flip the 'not so way back' machine to 2016 and see what a difference Rashad Davis made for JMU as a PR. Good special teams returners are great to have -- return against SHSU broke their back and we forced 2 more bad special teams plays right after that.

Not to mention the JMU punt return game nearly won it for them against NDSU last year by continually giving JMU great filed position.

The kicking game is normally overlooked but can flip the game either way.

Dewey

[mtjack]

I said it before the SUU game last year, so I’ll say it again. NAU isn’t a threat to win the BSC. They just aren’t that good. The loss the SUU was pretty eye opening. I get it was at SUU, but if they were a real contender, they wouldn’t have been blown out by SUU (or USD for that matter).

Sam Houston State has sort of owned the Big Sky Conference (7-0 playoff record since 2012 if I counted correctly) but I was thoroughly surprised to learn that Sam Houston State is only 1-2 vs. NAU with all games being between 2001-2003.

The Jacks and Bearkats just announced a two game series in 2021-2022.

NAU's offense should produce. Defense...who knows? It falls down to line depth, injuries and mindset at the end of the season (something was way off in that opening round playoff game scheisse show I drove up for).

[Derby City Duke]

Not to mention the JMU punt return game nearly won it for them against NDSU last year by continually giving JMU great filed position.

The kicking game is normally overlooked but can flip the game either way.

Dewey

That's why we struggled so much in the FargoDome in '16. The stat they flashed up was like you guys gave up 0 yards on PR for the year (might have been the playoffs, but pretty sure it was for the season). Your web site only shows 3 punts actually returned for 0 yds. Great way to control field position.

[POD Knows]

That's why we struggled so much in the FargoDome in '16. The stat they flashed up was like you guys gave up 0 yards on PR for the year (might have been the playoffs, but pretty sure it was for the season). Your web site only shows 3 punts actually returned for 0 yds. Great way to control field position.Not really, our kicker in 2016 was not good, there must be a stat someplace that shows net punting average but we had the same punter in 2016 that we had in 2017 but I know he had a lot better game against JMU in 2016 at the Dome than he had in Frisco. He was grossly inconsistent but you are right, NDSU didn't give up many return yards, our punter had a tendency to kick the ball pretty high and short or the punt was so ugly, nobody would field it.

[dewey]

Not really, our kicker in 2016 was not good, there must be a stat someplace that shows net punting average but we had the same punter in 2016 that we had in 2017 but I know he had a lot better game against JMU in 2016 at the Dome than he had in Frisco. He was grossly inconsistent but you are right, NDSU didn't give up many return yards, our punter had a tendency to kick the ball pretty high and short or the punt was so ugly, nobody would field it.

Jackson Koonce did not allow any punt return yards in 2016 or near zero if I remember correctly. He was the punter in Frisco this year but I believe he was injured during that roughing the punter play early in the game.

Dewey

[POD Knows]

Jackson Koonce did not allow any punt return yards in 2016 or near zero if I remember correctly. He was the punter in Frisco this year but I believe he was injured during that roughing the punter play early in the game.

DeweyYep, I agree with your statement for 2016. His net punting average in 2017 was 34.8. His punting average per punt was 38.6. In 2016 his net punting average was 36 and his total average per punt was 37.3. Those are pretty average numbers.

Just to add, LeCompte's average in 2015 was 45.9, over a 1/3 of his punts were 50+ yards.

[Bisonoline]

Yep, I agree with your statement for 2016. His net punting average in 2017 was 34.8. His punting average per punt was 38.6. In 2016 his net punting average was 36 and his total average per punt was 37.3. Those are pretty average numbers.

Just to add, LeCompte's average in 2015 was 45.9, over a 1/3 of his punts were 50+ yards.

Last year our punter very rarely turned the field over. The only saving grace was the fact that he had good hang time so our coverage could get down the field and stop the return. I shuddered Everytime he had to punt.

[POD Knows]

Last year our punter very rarely turned the field over. The only saving grace was the fact that he had good hang time so our coverage could get down the field and stop the return. I shuddered Everytime he had to punt.It was sort of brutal and we got pretty spoiled with LeCompte.

[Bisonoline]

It was sort of brutal and we got pretty spoiled with LeCompte.

Dont forget Drago and Voightlander. Plus one other one I forgot.

[dewey]

It was sort of brutal and we got pretty spoiled with LeCompte.

LeCompte was so good at unleashing a bomb of a punt to flip the field on the other team. Especially the 2015 UNI playoff game in which he was basically the game MVP.

We got spoiled with excellent punters and Koonce was adequate but not nearly as good as we have had for a while.

Dewey

[POD Knows]

Dont forget Drago and Voightlander. Plus one other one I forgot.OH, yea, Prelvitz (SP) was the other guy, he was pretty average I think, Drago was a monster. I need to look up his stats, I think he hit the ceiling of the Fargo Dome in a game once.

[POD Knows]

Dont forget Drago and Voightlander. Plus one other one I forgot.Drago averaged 45 in 2007, 46 in 2006 and 46.5 in 2005. That freaking guy could kick.

[katss07]

Sam Houston State has sort of owned the Big Sky Conference (7-0 playoff record since 2012 if I counted correctly) but I was thoroughly surprised to learn that Sam Houston State is only 1-2 vs. NAU with all games being between 2001-2003.

The Jacks and Bearkats just announced a two game series in 2021-2022.

NAU's offense should produce. Defense...who knows? It falls down to line depth, injuries and mindset at the end of the season (something was way off in that opening round playoff game scheisse show I drove up for).
Yes, Sam won the Big Sky in 2011, 2012, 2015. We like the boast about that. Should be a fun series against the Jacks when the time comes.

[cx500d]

Not really, our kicker in 2016 was not good, there must be a stat someplace that shows net punting average but we had the same punter in 2016 that we had in 2017 but I know he had a lot better game against JMU in 2016 at the Dome than he had in Frisco. He was grossly inconsistent but you are right, NDSU didn't give up many return yards, our punter had a tendency to kick the ball pretty high and short or the punt was so ugly, nobody would field it.

He kicked high but short. Basically fair catches all the Time because they were so short.


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[Bisonoline]

He kicked high but short. Basically fair catches all the Time because they were so short.


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He was a shankapottamus at times also. Coffin corner at the 50 is not good.

[Mike296]

Back on the APSU train though, as probably the only APSU supporter on this board let me tell you something about this group of guys we got this season, we lost a fair bit but our recruiting has paid off and we have some young guys who could contribute this year and a good group of seniors this year who are hungry for a better season this year. People are saying UGA is facing injuries right now that have not been made public yet as they don’t know the severity yet. I’m not saying we can beat them I’m just saying they might not be at full strength this game. As for the JSU game, that seems to be the de facto conference title game unless someone else pops up out of nowhere. We have a very solid defense going into this season but our offense is in an interesting predicament with a potentially season ending injury to one of our Running backs. So that 9-2 record everyone is saying could get us into the playoffs may not happen.

[ST_Lawson]

...I think he hit the ceiling of the Fargo Dome in a game once.

I wish you guys had been in the conference back in the early 2000's so I could see Scifres boot one to the rafters: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-1s10sullivan-2009dec10-htmlstory.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-1s10sullivan-2009dec10-htmlstory.html)